Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Hi all just want to give my 3 cents. This is a good idea and I think it is worth a shot you never no even with a multi bilion dollar company like microsoft. It is important however to consider the actual programming of the software. Microsoft office is written using the C++ language which is microsofts own language developed by them. Apples main programming language is Coco and the other older one is Carbon. The magic of voiceover lies in Coco, if any software is developed using Coco it's accessible using voiceover or mostly ment to be anyway and this is why some 3rd party developers can make applications accessible without even realising as long as they properly use the Coco code. Microsoft office as said, is written in C++. Ok so mac OS can read c++ applications modified a little and this is why office works on mac but office for mac is still a c++ application modified to work on mac. In order to make it accessible it has to be written from the ground up using Coco and this is why I don't think microsoft will consider making office accessible. It will cost them a lot of time and money and for what? For them it is firstly Apple which is the opposition and secondly disabled mac users is only a small drop of water in their ocian of office users. I think before developing office from scratch using Coco they would rather invest money in accessibility on windows in order to try draw more disabled users to their software. Basically they have got us by the short and curlies, we are mac users, we want to use office but can't, and they know it. But as I said it is still worth a try we'll never know before we try, maybe they surprise us so I say give it a go... On May 5, 1:39 am, Chris Moore moor...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: I totally agree, fancy dropping them a line? I have been in touch with the RNIB over here and a couple of other organisations on this side of the pond. Will keep you posted of any outcome. On 4 May 2011, at 22:49, Laura McGlynn wrote: I think I've said this before, but what I find annoying is the silence of blind-oriented organisations, like NFB. If it was a big deal for Apple not to have accessibility built into iTunes, I'm not sure why Microsoft gets a pass, especially when Office is so ubiquitous. The lack of Office support isn't the only reason agencies are reluctant to offer the Mac as a viable solution for blind users, but I bet it doesn't help. In that respect, Microsoft's failure is a much bigger deal than Apple's was with iTunes. I know some people will say that's exactly why organisations like the NFB aren't making a big deal about it, but I'm not sure that's true. Either way, why they're not doing it at the moment isn't as important as letting them know that there's a problem, and that there's a sizeable number of blind users who want them to do something. Targeting them to take action might be as good an effort as targeting Microsoft directly. Because, as noted, our market share is tiny. It's going to take more than just us telling them they're losing money to bring change, and that's what organisations designed to advocate for the blind should be good at, IMO. Tony Hernandez tonyhspe...@gmail.com May 04 10:20AM -0400 ^ It seems to me that this effort is aimed at trying to creaet the force of a number of people rather than just one. Also, another problem is that the office formats are industry standard, so as Carolyn says, Microsoft knows they have the public around the neck. Gates meant serious business when he said, A computer in every home, and Microsoft software on every computer. He's pretty much achieved this as much as anyone can, so the company is quite complacent. Our market share is chickenfeed compared to that which they already hold, not that I think Gates himself is to blame for the accessibility issues, but MS as a company has no reason at present to try to expand their customer base. That being said, I see no reason why the effort should not be made to bring this issue to the attention of Microsoft, especially since Apple is outdoing them by leaps and bounds on accessibility for the blind, the deaf, and those who have motor difficulties. Tony Hernandez -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Office for Mac is still 32 bit, and still carbon. They wanted to concentrate on compatibility with the Windows sister suite before adopting the Cocoa framework. Apparently the next release will implement Cocoa so Office can take advantage of 64 bit. Outlook was rewritten (previously known as Entourage) in cocoa, including the ribbon. However, this does not guarantee accessibility, I am assuming Microsoft are using some customs APis here. On 5 May 2011, at 18:46, Nickus de Vos wrote: Hi all just want to give my 3 cents. This is a good idea and I think it is worth a shot you never no even with a multi bilion dollar company like microsoft. It is important however to consider the actual programming of the software. Microsoft office is written using the C++ language which is microsofts own language developed by them. Apples main programming language is Coco and the other older one is Carbon. The magic of voiceover lies in Coco, if any software is developed using Coco it's accessible using voiceover or mostly ment to be anyway and this is why some 3rd party developers can make applications accessible without even realising as long as they properly use the Coco code. Microsoft office as said, is written in C++. Ok so mac OS can read c++ applications modified a little and this is why office works on mac but office for mac is still a c++ application modified to work on mac. In order to make it accessible it has to be written from the ground up using Coco and this is why I don't think microsoft will consider making office accessible. It will cost them a lot of time and money and for what? For them it is firstly Apple which is the opposition and secondly disabled mac users is only a small drop of water in their ocian of office users. I think before developing office from scratch using Coco they would rather invest money in accessibility on windows in order to try draw more disabled users to their software. Basically they have got us by the short and curlies, we are mac users, we want to use office but can't, and they know it. But as I said it is still worth a try we'll never know before we try, maybe they surprise us so I say give it a go... On May 5, 1:39 am, Chris Moore moor...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: I totally agree, fancy dropping them a line? I have been in touch with the RNIB over here and a couple of other organisations on this side of the pond. Will keep you posted of any outcome. On 4 May 2011, at 22:49, Laura McGlynn wrote: I think I've said this before, but what I find annoying is the silence of blind-oriented organisations, like NFB. If it was a big deal for Apple not to have accessibility built into iTunes, I'm not sure why Microsoft gets a pass, especially when Office is so ubiquitous. The lack of Office support isn't the only reason agencies are reluctant to offer the Mac as a viable solution for blind users, but I bet it doesn't help. In that respect, Microsoft's failure is a much bigger deal than Apple's was with iTunes. I know some people will say that's exactly why organisations like the NFB aren't making a big deal about it, but I'm not sure that's true. Either way, why they're not doing it at the moment isn't as important as letting them know that there's a problem, and that there's a sizeable number of blind users who want them to do something. Targeting them to take action might be as good an effort as targeting Microsoft directly. Because, as noted, our market share is tiny. It's going to take more than just us telling them they're losing money to bring change, and that's what organisations designed to advocate for the blind should be good at, IMO. Tony Hernandez tonyhspe...@gmail.com May 04 10:20AM -0400 ^ It seems to me that this effort is aimed at trying to creaet the force of a number of people rather than just one. Also, another problem is that the office formats are industry standard, so as Carolyn says, Microsoft knows they have the public around the neck. Gates meant serious business when he said, A computer in every home, and Microsoft software on every computer. He's pretty much achieved this as much as anyone can, so the company is quite complacent. Our market share is chickenfeed compared to that which they already hold, not that I think Gates himself is to blame for the accessibility issues, but MS as a company has no reason at present to try to expand their customer base. That being said, I see no reason why the effort should not be made to bring this issue to the attention of Microsoft, especially since Apple is outdoing them by leaps and bounds on accessibility for the blind, the deaf, and those who have motor difficulties. Tony Hernandez -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
RE: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Aren't there bindings for C++ to work with Cocoa objects? IF so, isn't it possible to use the accessibility API? Tony Hernandez http://dutyofman.net/ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14) -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nickus de Vos Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:46 PM To: MacVisionaries Subject: Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac Hi all just want to give my 3 cents. This is a good idea and I think it is worth a shot you never no even with a multi bilion dollar company like microsoft. It is important however to consider the actual programming of the software. Microsoft office is written using the C++ language which is microsofts own language developed by them. Apples main programming language is Coco and the other older one is Carbon. The magic of voiceover lies in Coco, if any software is developed using Coco it's accessible using voiceover or mostly ment to be anyway and this is why some 3rd party developers can make applications accessible without even realising as long as they properly use the Coco code. Microsoft office as said, is written in C++. Ok so mac OS can read c++ applications modified a little and this is why office works on mac but office for mac is still a c++ application modified to work on mac. In order to make it accessible it has to be written from the ground up using Coco and this is why I don't think microsoft will consider making office accessible. It will cost them a lot of time and money and for what? For them it is firstly Apple which is the opposition and secondly disabled mac users is only a small drop of water in their ocian of office users. I think before developing office from scratch using Coco they would rather invest money in accessibility on windows in order to try draw more disabled users to their software. Basically they have got us by the short and curlies, we are mac users, we want to use office but can't, and they know it. But as I said it is still worth a try we'll never know before we try, maybe they surprise us so I say give it a go... On May 5, 1:39 am, Chris Moore moor...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: I totally agree, fancy dropping them a line? I have been in touch with the RNIB over here and a couple of other organisations on this side of the pond. Will keep you posted of any outcome. On 4 May 2011, at 22:49, Laura McGlynn wrote: I think I've said this before, but what I find annoying is the silence of blind-oriented organisations, like NFB. If it was a big deal for Apple not to have accessibility built into iTunes, I'm not sure why Microsoft gets a pass, especially when Office is so ubiquitous. The lack of Office support isn't the only reason agencies are reluctant to offer the Mac as a viable solution for blind users, but I bet it doesn't help. In that respect, Microsoft's failure is a much bigger deal than Apple's was with iTunes. I know some people will say that's exactly why organisations like the NFB aren't making a big deal about it, but I'm not sure that's true. Either way, why they're not doing it at the moment isn't as important as letting them know that there's a problem, and that there's a sizeable number of blind users who want them to do something. Targeting them to take action might be as good an effort as targeting Microsoft directly. Because, as noted, our market share is tiny. It's going to take more than just us telling them they're losing money to bring change, and that's what organisations designed to advocate for the blind should be good at, IMO. Tony Hernandez tonyhspe...@gmail.com May 04 10:20AM -0400 ^ It seems to me that this effort is aimed at trying to creaet the force of a number of people rather than just one. Also, another problem is that the office formats are industry standard, so as Carolyn says, Microsoft knows they have the public around the neck. Gates meant serious business when he said, A computer in every home, and Microsoft software on every computer. He's pretty much achieved this as much as anyone can, so the company is quite complacent. Our market share is chickenfeed compared to that which they already hold, not that I think Gates himself is to blame for the accessibility issues, but MS as a company has no reason at present to try to expand their customer base. That being said, I see no reason why the effort should not be made to bring this issue to the attention of Microsoft, especially since Apple is outdoing them by leaps and bounds on accessibility for the blind, the deaf, and those who have motor difficulties. Tony Hernandez -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
I'm not an expert so maybe you're more rite than I am but I know for a fact that the core of office is still C++ and in order for it to be accessible it has to be Coco from the bottom up. Chris Moore wrote: Office for Mac is still 32 bit, and still carbon. They wanted to concentrate on compatibility with the Windows sister suite before adopting the Cocoa framework. Apparently the next release will implement Cocoa so Office can take advantage of 64 bit. Outlook was rewritten (previously known as Entourage) in cocoa, including the ribbon. However, this does not guarantee accessibility, I am assuming Microsoft are using some customs APis here. On 5 May 2011, at 18:46, Nickus de Vos wrote: Hi all just want to give my 3 cents. This is a good idea and I think it is worth a shot you never no even with a multi bilion dollar company like microsoft. It is important however to consider the actual programming of the software. Microsoft office is written using the C++ language which is microsofts own language developed by them. Apples main programming language is Coco and the other older one is Carbon. The magic of voiceover lies in Coco, if any software is developed using Coco it's accessible using voiceover or mostly ment to be anyway and this is why some 3rd party developers can make applications accessible without even realising as long as they properly use the Coco code. Microsoft office as said, is written in C++. Ok so mac OS can read c++ applications modified a little and this is why office works on mac but office for mac is still a c++ application modified to work on mac. In order to make it accessible it has to be written from the ground up using Coco and this is why I don't think microsoft will consider making office accessible. It will cost them a lot of time and money and for what? For them it is firstly Apple which is the opposition and secondly disabled mac users is only a small drop of water in their ocian of office users. I think before developing office from scratch using Coco they would rather invest money in accessibility on windows in order to try draw more disabled users to their software. Basically they have got us by the short and curlies, we are mac users, we want to use office but can't, and they know it. But as I said it is still worth a try we'll never know before we try, maybe they surprise us so I say give it a go... On May 5, 1:39 am, Chris Moore moor...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: I totally agree, fancy dropping them a line? I have been in touch with the RNIB over here and a couple of other organisations on this side of the pond. Will keep you posted of any outcome. On 4 May 2011, at 22:49, Laura McGlynn wrote: I think I've said this before, but what I find annoying is the silence of blind-oriented organisations, like NFB. If it was a big deal for Apple not to have accessibility built into iTunes, I'm not sure why Microsoft gets a pass, especially when Office is so ubiquitous. The lack of Office support isn't the only reason agencies are reluctant to offer the Mac as a viable solution for blind users, but I bet it doesn't help. In that respect, Microsoft's failure is a much bigger deal than Apple's was with iTunes. I know some people will say that's exactly why organisations like the NFB aren't making a big deal about it, but I'm not sure that's true. Either way, why they're not doing it at the moment isn't as important as letting them know that there's a problem, and that there's a sizeable number of blind users who want them to do something. Targeting them to take action might be as good an effort as targeting Microsoft directly. Because, as noted, our market share is tiny. It's going to take more than just us telling them they're losing money to bring change, and that's what organisations designed to advocate for the blind should be good at, IMO. Tony Hernandez tonyhspe...@gmail.com May 04 10:20AM -0400 ^ It seems to me that this effort is aimed at trying to creaet the force of a number of people rather than just one. Also, another problem is that the office formats are industry standard, so as Carolyn says, Microsoft knows they have the public around the neck. Gates meant serious business when he said, A computer in every home, and Microsoft software on every computer. He's pretty much achieved this as much as anyone can, so the company is quite complacent. Our market share is chickenfeed compared to that which they already hold, not that I think Gates himself is to blame for the accessibility issues, but MS as a company has no reason at present to try to expand their customer base. That being said, I see no reason why the effort should not be made to bring this issue to the attention of Microsoft, especially since Apple is outdoing them by leaps and bounds on accessibility for the blind, the
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Actually I agree with you there. I never did understand that negative image theme. Who the hell wants to see photos and icons inverted? When I first bought my iPhone I wanted white text on a black background as it is easier to see in daylight (well it was lol) and I was horrified that Apple offered this as a solution. I also think there should be some high contrast themes on the Mac. This is where ZoomText, Magic and Lunar do a good job. So you totally get my sympathy there. I presume you have emailed accessibil...@apple.com about this? Chris On 4 May 2011, at 18:34, LaMcAs wrote: It is just a shame that Apple aren't willing to do anything with regard to themes for low vision users, the totally blind are covered quite nicely but anyone that needs to use high contrast is stuffed because everything is just inverted! Larry Flax GD (Guide Dog) Elliot RTG (Retired Guide Dog) London, UK -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Jones Sent: 04 May 2011 16:24 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac Chris Thank you for taking the initiative to start this discussion and for posting the MS contact information. I will send them a note today. Last year I had taken a quick look around the web and found the following MSDN Accessibility Blog. It hadn't been updated in a few years and when I attempted to contact the author my email bounced. I just looked again and see that a new post was added by a new author last month so I'm going to try contacting them again. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/ Cheers, Bryan On May 3, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
I think I've said this before, but what I find annoying is the silence of blind-oriented organisations, like NFB. If it was a big deal for Apple not to have accessibility built into iTunes, I'm not sure why Microsoft gets a pass, especially when Office is so ubiquitous. The lack of Office support isn't the only reason agencies are reluctant to offer the Mac as a viable solution for blind users, but I bet it doesn't help. In that respect, Microsoft's failure is a much bigger deal than Apple's was with iTunes. I know some people will say that's exactly why organisations like the NFB aren't making a big deal about it, but I'm not sure that's true. Either way, why they're not doing it at the moment isn't as important as letting them know that there's a problem, and that there's a sizeable number of blind users who want them to do something. Targeting them to take action might be as good an effort as targeting Microsoft directly. Because, as noted, our market share is tiny. It's going to take more than just us telling them they're losing money to bring change, and that's what organisations designed to advocate for the blind should be good at, IMO. Tony Hernandez tonyhspe...@gmail.com May 04 10:20AM -0400 ^ It seems to me that this effort is aimed at trying to creaet the force of a number of people rather than just one. Also, another problem is that the office formats are industry standard, so as Carolyn says, Microsoft knows they have the public around the neck. Gates meant serious business when he said, A computer in every home, and Microsoft software on every computer. He's pretty much achieved this as much as anyone can, so the company is quite complacent. Our market share is chickenfeed compared to that which they already hold, not that I think Gates himself is to blame for the accessibility issues, but MS as a company has no reason at present to try to expand their customer base. That being said, I see no reason why the effort should not be made to bring this issue to the attention of Microsoft, especially since Apple is outdoing them by leaps and bounds on accessibility for the blind, the deaf, and those who have motor difficulties. Tony Hernandez -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: screen contrast was RE: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Hi NO as I'm only using an iphone right now and I've been told it's pretty much the negative type effect you get with pictures. However I will try out your commands on my friends imac, thanks for the tips. Larry Flax GD (Guide Dog) Elliot RTG (Retired Guide Dog) London, UK -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Hernandez Sent: 04 May 2011 18:57 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: screen contrast was RE: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac Hi Larry. Have you tried these shortcut keys? Option-Control-Command-Comma Decrease screen contrast Option-Control-Command-Period Increase screen contrast Tony Hernandez http://dutyofman.net/ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14) -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of LaMcAs Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:34 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac It is just a shame that Apple aren't willing to do anything with regard to themes for low vision users, the totally blind are covered quite nicely but anyone that needs to use high contrast is stuffed because everything is just inverted! Larry Flax GD (Guide Dog) Elliot RTG (Retired Guide Dog) London, UK -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Jones Sent: 04 May 2011 16:24 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac Chris Thank you for taking the initiative to start this discussion and for posting the MS contact information. I will send them a note today. Last year I had taken a quick look around the web and found the following MSDN Accessibility Blog. It hadn't been updated in a few years and when I attempted to contact the author my email bounced. I just looked again and see that a new post was added by a new author last month so I'm going to try contacting them again. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/ Cheers, Bryan On May 3, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
I totally agree, fancy dropping them a line? I have been in touch with the RNIB over here and a couple of other organisations on this side of the pond. Will keep you posted of any outcome. On 4 May 2011, at 22:49, Laura McGlynn wrote: I think I've said this before, but what I find annoying is the silence of blind-oriented organisations, like NFB. If it was a big deal for Apple not to have accessibility built into iTunes, I'm not sure why Microsoft gets a pass, especially when Office is so ubiquitous. The lack of Office support isn't the only reason agencies are reluctant to offer the Mac as a viable solution for blind users, but I bet it doesn't help. In that respect, Microsoft's failure is a much bigger deal than Apple's was with iTunes. I know some people will say that's exactly why organisations like the NFB aren't making a big deal about it, but I'm not sure that's true. Either way, why they're not doing it at the moment isn't as important as letting them know that there's a problem, and that there's a sizeable number of blind users who want them to do something. Targeting them to take action might be as good an effort as targeting Microsoft directly. Because, as noted, our market share is tiny. It's going to take more than just us telling them they're losing money to bring change, and that's what organisations designed to advocate for the blind should be good at, IMO. Tony Hernandez tonyhspe...@gmail.com May 04 10:20AM -0400 ^ It seems to me that this effort is aimed at trying to creaet the force of a number of people rather than just one. Also, another problem is that the office formats are industry standard, so as Carolyn says, Microsoft knows they have the public around the neck. Gates meant serious business when he said, A computer in every home, and Microsoft software on every computer. He's pretty much achieved this as much as anyone can, so the company is quite complacent. Our market share is chickenfeed compared to that which they already hold, not that I think Gates himself is to blame for the accessibility issues, but MS as a company has no reason at present to try to expand their customer base. That being said, I see no reason why the effort should not be made to bring this issue to the attention of Microsoft, especially since Apple is outdoing them by leaps and bounds on accessibility for the blind, the deaf, and those who have motor difficulties. Tony Hernandez -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Hi: I think Microsoft isn't interested in accessibility. I suspect time would be better spent working with Apple to get a better office type program developed. Microsoft knows they have the public by the neck, (for lack of a better word:). Like Adobe, they've pretty much made it clear that accessibility is not a concern that keeps them up nights. In my opinion, Since Apple has built accessibility in, Microsoft won't be bothered to make their product work with a rival platform. Carolyn On May 3, 2011, at 6:28 PM, Kevin Shaw wrote: A few points from me: Windows comes with a screen reader called narrator. It's not as robust as Voiceover, but Microsoft does develop it, much the same way as one vacuums under the sofa—You're lucky if it's done every few years. Yes, I agree with the initial suggestion. Tell Microsoft you want to participate as a full user of their software. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Peer-selling can be of great benefit, like telling them that if a company like DigiDesign can render a highly complex program like ProTools accessible, it would be easy for Microsoft to do the same for its most familiar productivity software. We may also mention the fact that 65 to 70% of blind people are unemployed or underemployed. Perhaps one person could take up the initiative, start a petition and be the go to person when it comes to engaging Microsoft in a dialog, much like my hero Slau did with ProTools. In which case, a carefully articulated and well-crafted series of statements could bring light to this issue. In addition, opening lines of communication to the media on this issue could also be of benefit to our cause. This is a large issue, as there is much to explain to a largely sighted audience. Explaining how screen readers work is one thing. Explaining how a popular program like MS Word doesn't work with a Mac or Windows screen reader is a whole other challenge, orders of magnitude beyond telling the journalist that talking computers let blind people surf the web. If it's at all possible, we could establish a list of people with the skills and connections to create these documents, the petition, press releases and other communication strategies to bring attention to this issue. If there is a lawyer on the list (and I doubt it because no one answered my black's Law Dictionary question), perhaps the mention of an anti-trust investigation will get things moving. I say this with a bit of jest, so please don't fill the list with messages bashing these suggestions. I work for a radio station here in Canada and would be willing to invest resources into getting this story told. If anyone else has a media contact or connection, let's develop the tools that we need to tell this story. the only question that remains is, are you ready to change the world? Kevin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Isn't it interesting that blind people are willing to fight for access to ProTools, Facebook and Flash, but when someone mentions the word Microsoft, people act like they're the mouse who has to put the bell around the cat's neck? My suggestions are to raise awareness of the myriad issues that plague this particular situation. Speaking directly to Microsoft may be an outcome of this awareness, but for one person to go up against Microsoft and demand accessibility yields the typical response: We're working on the problem, and we'll get back to you. Let us not speculate as to Microsoft's stance on accessibility until we hear a direct, emphatic and clear NO! from the mother corps. I'm all for encouraging Apple to develop its suite of productivity software titles to be fully accessible, however I believe the end user wants and needs choice, especially in the context of corporations that require MS Office. Kevin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
It seems to me that this effort is aimed at trying to creaet the force of a number of people rather than just one. Also, another problem is that the office formats are industry standard, so as Carolyn says, Microsoft knows they have the public around the neck. Gates meant serious business when he said, A computer in every home, and Microsoft software on every computer. He's pretty much achieved this as much as anyone can, so the company is quite complacent. Our market share is chickenfeed compared to that which they already hold, not that I think Gates himself is to blame for the accessibility issues, but MS as a company has no reason at present to try to expand their customer base. That being said, I see no reason why the effort should not be made to bring this issue to the attention of Microsoft, especially since Apple is outdoing them by leaps and bounds on accessibility for the blind, the deaf, and those who have motor difficulties. Tony Hernandez http://dutyofman.net/ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14) -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Shaw Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 10:03 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac Isn't it interesting that blind people are willing to fight for access to ProTools, Facebook and Flash, but when someone mentions the word Microsoft, people act like they're the mouse who has to put the bell around the cat's neck? My suggestions are to raise awareness of the myriad issues that plague this particular situation. Speaking directly to Microsoft may be an outcome of this awareness, but for one person to go up against Microsoft and demand accessibility yields the typical response: We're working on the problem, and we'll get back to you. Let us not speculate as to Microsoft's stance on accessibility until we hear a direct, emphatic and clear NO! from the mother corps. I'm all for encouraging Apple to develop its suite of productivity software titles to be fully accessible, however I believe the end user wants and needs choice, especially in the context of corporations that require MS Office. Kevin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Chris Thank you for taking the initiative to start this discussion and for posting the MS contact information. I will send them a note today. Last year I had taken a quick look around the web and found the following MSDN Accessibility Blog. It hadn't been updated in a few years and when I attempted to contact the author my email bounced. I just looked again and see that a new post was added by a new author last month so I'm going to try contacting them again. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/ Cheers, Bryan On May 3, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Well, Microsoft demonstrated their concern for accessibility when they released Windows phone 7. Warm regards, Brandt Steenkamp If you like country, oldies and the ocasional modern track, you can tune in to my show, an Eclectic mess every Wednesday afternoon at 3 PM UTC by going to www.TheGlobalVoice.info Contact me: Skype: brandt.steenkamp007 MSN: brandt...@live.com Google talk/AIM: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com Twitter @brandtsteenkamp - Original Message - From: Kevin Shaw tvsound...@rogers.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 4:03 PM Subject: Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac Isn't it interesting that blind people are willing to fight for access to ProTools, Facebook and Flash, but when someone mentions the word Microsoft, people act like they're the mouse who has to put the bell around the cat's neck? My suggestions are to raise awareness of the myriad issues that plague this particular situation. Speaking directly to Microsoft may be an outcome of this awareness, but for one person to go up against Microsoft and demand accessibility yields the typical response: We're working on the problem, and we'll get back to you. Let us not speculate as to Microsoft's stance on accessibility until we hear a direct, emphatic and clear NO! from the mother corps. I'm all for encouraging Apple to develop its suite of productivity software titles to be fully accessible, however I believe the end user wants and needs choice, especially in the context of corporations that require MS Office. Kevin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Finally someone who totally gets where I am coming from *sighs* Gordon yo might have to set up a separate office mailing list for us :) On 4 May 2011, at 15:03, Kevin Shaw wrote: Isn't it interesting that blind people are willing to fight for access to ProTools, Facebook and Flash, but when someone mentions the word Microsoft, people act like they're the mouse who has to put the bell around the cat's neck? My suggestions are to raise awareness of the myriad issues that plague this particular situation. Speaking directly to Microsoft may be an outcome of this awareness, but for one person to go up against Microsoft and demand accessibility yields the typical response: We're working on the problem, and we'll get back to you. Let us not speculate as to Microsoft's stance on accessibility until we hear a direct, emphatic and clear NO! from the mother corps. I'm all for encouraging Apple to develop its suite of productivity software titles to be fully accessible, however I believe the end user wants and needs choice, especially in the context of corporations that require MS Office. Kevin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Your welcome Brian, and it really does seem to have stirred up some emotions here, good and bad. But that is what mailing lists are all about and I think some excellent points have been raised. I am serious about trying to take this forward though. It is worth a shot and hopefully as a collective (sorry for going all borg on you there ) can make a difference. On 4 May 2011, at 16:23, Bryan Jones wrote: Chris Thank you for taking the initiative to start this discussion and for posting the MS contact information. I will send them a note today. Last year I had taken a quick look around the web and found the following MSDN Accessibility Blog. It hadn't been updated in a few years and when I attempted to contact the author my email bounced. I just looked again and see that a new post was added by a new author last month so I'm going to try contacting them again. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/ Cheers, Bryan On May 3, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
If that was the case, then why have Microsoft gone to all the trouble to bring Outlook back to the Mac? Why have they gone to the trouble to make Office 2011 100% compatible with the Windows version? Clearly they are interested in the product and there is a market there. Apple don't need any help in creating a Office product, they have never been interested in high end Office as many have failed in this arena. Look at Lotus SmartSuite, AmiPro and Lotus were excellent products. Novell had the totally wonderful WordPerfect and Quatro Pro. They were all better products, but are more or less dead now, Corel does not even push Word Perfect these days. At the end of the day big businesses and government departments want Microsoft Office either running on the Mac or Windows platform. So why can't we fully join the party? If Microsoft turned around tomorrow and released Office for the Mac with excellent accessibility support, would you not be interested or pleased? On 4 May 2011, at 14:17, carolyn Haas wrote: Hi: I think Microsoft isn't interested in accessibility. I suspect time would be better spent working with Apple to get a better office type program developed. Microsoft knows they have the public by the neck, (for lack of a better word:). Like Adobe, they've pretty much made it clear that accessibility is not a concern that keeps them up nights. In my opinion, Since Apple has built accessibility in, Microsoft won't be bothered to make their product work with a rival platform. Carolyn On May 3, 2011, at 6:28 PM, Kevin Shaw wrote: A few points from me: Windows comes with a screen reader called narrator. It's not as robust as Voiceover, but Microsoft does develop it, much the same way as one vacuums under the sofa—You're lucky if it's done every few years. Yes, I agree with the initial suggestion. Tell Microsoft you want to participate as a full user of their software. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Peer-selling can be of great benefit, like telling them that if a company like DigiDesign can render a highly complex program like ProTools accessible, it would be easy for Microsoft to do the same for its most familiar productivity software. We may also mention the fact that 65 to 70% of blind people are unemployed or underemployed. Perhaps one person could take up the initiative, start a petition and be the go to person when it comes to engaging Microsoft in a dialog, much like my hero Slau did with ProTools. In which case, a carefully articulated and well-crafted series of statements could bring light to this issue. In addition, opening lines of communication to the media on this issue could also be of benefit to our cause. This is a large issue, as there is much to explain to a largely sighted audience. Explaining how screen readers work is one thing. Explaining how a popular program like MS Word doesn't work with a Mac or Windows screen reader is a whole other challenge, orders of magnitude beyond telling the journalist that talking computers let blind people surf the web. If it's at all possible, we could establish a list of people with the skills and connections to create these documents, the petition, press releases and other communication strategies to bring attention to this issue. If there is a lawyer on the list (and I doubt it because no one answered my black's Law Dictionary question), perhaps the mention of an anti-trust investigation will get things moving. I say this with a bit of jest, so please don't fill the list with messages bashing these suggestions. I work for a radio station here in Canada and would be willing to invest resources into getting this story told. If anyone else has a media contact or connection, let's develop the tools that we need to tell this story. the only question that remains is, are you ready to change the world? Kevin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Ok to be fair, they had to get something decent out of the bag quickly. Android and Apple caught Nokia and Microsoft with their pants down. Nobody in the business expected Google and Apple to topple these boys. Even RIM are running scared and finally being more creative than they have ever been. Apple's first 2 releases did not contain accessibility either. Maybe Microsoft are playing catch up and who knows maybe their next big release for the mobile platform may be more accessible. Microsoft Office for Mac is in a different class, it is already established and finally now completely on par with Office 2010 for Windows (minus Publisher and Access of course) So it is not as though Microsoft are going to have to rewrite Office for Mac and add many new features to play catch up with its Windows cousin. The majority of Office is now Cocoa, not sure if it is 64 bit though, so hopefully threading accessibility support into Office might not be too difficult. But they need to know enough of us really want it, or why would they add it? They are a business at the end of the day and will add features customers want to sell new versions of the product. By adding compatibility to the Windows version and reinstating Outlook were the biggest feature requests from their customers. Let's make accessibility the biggest feature request for their next update / release. Chris On 4 May 2011, at 16:01, brandt wrote: Well, Microsoft demonstrated their concern for accessibility when they released Windows phone 7. Warm regards, Brandt Steenkamp If you like country, oldies and the ocasional modern track, you can tune in to my show, an Eclectic mess every Wednesday afternoon at 3 PM UTC by going to www.TheGlobalVoice.info Contact me: Skype: brandt.steenkamp007 MSN: brandt...@live.com Google talk/AIM: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com Twitter @brandtsteenkamp - Original Message - From: Kevin Shaw tvsound...@rogers.com To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 4:03 PM Subject: Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac Isn't it interesting that blind people are willing to fight for access to ProTools, Facebook and Flash, but when someone mentions the word Microsoft, people act like they're the mouse who has to put the bell around the cat's neck? My suggestions are to raise awareness of the myriad issues that plague this particular situation. Speaking directly to Microsoft may be an outcome of this awareness, but for one person to go up against Microsoft and demand accessibility yields the typical response: We're working on the problem, and we'll get back to you. Let us not speculate as to Microsoft's stance on accessibility until we hear a direct, emphatic and clear NO! from the mother corps. I'm all for encouraging Apple to develop its suite of productivity software titles to be fully accessible, however I believe the end user wants and needs choice, especially in the context of corporations that require MS Office. Kevin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
It is just a shame that Apple aren't willing to do anything with regard to themes for low vision users, the totally blind are covered quite nicely but anyone that needs to use high contrast is stuffed because everything is just inverted! Larry Flax GD (Guide Dog) Elliot RTG (Retired Guide Dog) London, UK -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Jones Sent: 04 May 2011 16:24 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac Chris Thank you for taking the initiative to start this discussion and for posting the MS contact information. I will send them a note today. Last year I had taken a quick look around the web and found the following MSDN Accessibility Blog. It hadn't been updated in a few years and when I attempted to contact the author my email bounced. I just looked again and see that a new post was added by a new author last month so I'm going to try contacting them again. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/ Cheers, Bryan On May 3, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
screen contrast was RE: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Hi Larry. Have you tried these shortcut keys? Option-Control-Command-Comma Decrease screen contrast Option-Control-Command-Period Increase screen contrast Tony Hernandez http://dutyofman.net/ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14) -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of LaMcAs Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:34 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac It is just a shame that Apple aren't willing to do anything with regard to themes for low vision users, the totally blind are covered quite nicely but anyone that needs to use high contrast is stuffed because everything is just inverted! Larry Flax GD (Guide Dog) Elliot RTG (Retired Guide Dog) London, UK -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Jones Sent: 04 May 2011 16:24 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac Chris Thank you for taking the initiative to start this discussion and for posting the MS contact information. I will send them a note today. Last year I had taken a quick look around the web and found the following MSDN Accessibility Blog. It hadn't been updated in a few years and when I attempted to contact the author my email bounced. I just looked again and see that a new post was added by a new author last month so I'm going to try contacting them again. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/ Cheers, Bryan On May 3, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Good afternoon, Just as an FYI, MS Office for Windows isn't actually compatible with Windows screen-readers. There is a great deal of scripting required in order to make windows screen-readers work with MS Office products. I'm not saying that your campaign won't work. But, I just wanted to point out that MS Office isn't actually natively accessible on either platform. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
I was under the impression that Apple's philosophy is that the developers should be the ones to take care of accessibility by using the tools they provide for the purpose. I'd faint dead away if Microsoft were actually to take a thing like that seriously. They've certainly all but abandoned it in Windows and limit themselves to token efforts. Tony Hernandez http://dutyofman.net/ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14) From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:40 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac Good afternoon, Just as an FYI, MS Office for Windows isn't actually compatible with Windows screen-readers. There is a great deal of scripting required in order to make windows screen-readers work with MS Office products. I'm not saying that your campaign won't work. But, I just wanted to point out that MS Office isn't actually natively accessible on either platform. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Great idea; just done it! Ash On 03/05/2011 19:28, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Correct, it is up to Microsoft. This is a difference between WIndows Screen readers and VoiceOver. Apple has pushed the responsibility onto the developer and as I understand it this is not an impossible or burdensome process. I have obtained a number to someone at Microsoft and I'm going to explore the issue and see what comes of it. I'll let you all know assuming anything comes of it. Scott On May 3, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
That is because there is no built in screen reader for Windows, all the screen readers rely on scripts to work. scripting to get programs to work on OS X is not an option available to us, so therefore we have to apply pressure on Microsoft to become more compliant with Apple's standards. Adobe are making strides to improve accessibility on the Mac for Flash and Acrobat. ok it is not here, yet but it will be here within the next 12 months. We have to bare in mind that Microsoft does not make any of the screen readers on the Windows platform, so it is up to the vendors to get their products to work with the OS and it's applications. On 3 May 2011, at 19:40, E.J. Zufelt wrote: Good afternoon, Just as an FYI, MS Office for Windows isn't actually compatible with Windows screen-readers. There is a great deal of scripting required in order to make windows screen-readers work with MS Office products. I'm not saying that your campaign won't work. But, I just wanted to point out that MS Office isn't actually natively accessible on either platform. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
You are actually incorrect. Windows has both the MSAA and UIA accessibility APIs that allow developers to ensure that their applications are exposing information that can be used by assistive technology. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 3:42 PM, Chris Moore wrote: That is because there is no built in screen reader for Windows, all the screen readers rely on scripts to work. scripting to get programs to work on OS X is not an option available to us, so therefore we have to apply pressure on Microsoft to become more compliant with Apple's standards. Adobe are making strides to improve accessibility on the Mac for Flash and Acrobat. ok it is not here, yet but it will be here within the next 12 months. We have to bare in mind that Microsoft does not make any of the screen readers on the Windows platform, so it is up to the vendors to get their products to work with the OS and it's applications. On 3 May 2011, at 19:40, E.J. Zufelt wrote: Good afternoon, Just as an FYI, MS Office for Windows isn't actually compatible with Windows screen-readers. There is a great deal of scripting required in order to make windows screen-readers work with MS Office products. I'm not saying that your campaign won't work. But, I just wanted to point out that MS Office isn't actually natively accessible on either platform. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
i am aware of that, and it offers very basic support, hence why all the screen readers have to implement extra scripting to make them half decent. Look what happens when a new version of a application comes out, you usually have to wait for a screen reader update for it to work. ANyway, I am not interested in the Windows platform and how it works and does not work. I am interested in having an alternative platform for blind users to access the business standard Office Suite On 3 May 2011, at 20:46, E.J. Zufelt wrote: You are actually incorrect. Windows has both the MSAA and UIA accessibility APIs that allow developers to ensure that their applications are exposing information that can be used by assistive technology. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 3:42 PM, Chris Moore wrote: That is because there is no built in screen reader for Windows, all the screen readers rely on scripts to work. scripting to get programs to work on OS X is not an option available to us, so therefore we have to apply pressure on Microsoft to become more compliant with Apple's standards. Adobe are making strides to improve accessibility on the Mac for Flash and Acrobat. ok it is not here, yet but it will be here within the next 12 months. We have to bare in mind that Microsoft does not make any of the screen readers on the Windows platform, so it is up to the vendors to get their products to work with the OS and it's applications. On 3 May 2011, at 19:40, E.J. Zufelt wrote: Good afternoon, Just as an FYI, MS Office for Windows isn't actually compatible with Windows screen-readers. There is a great deal of scripting required in order to make windows screen-readers work with MS Office products. I'm not saying that your campaign won't work. But, I just wanted to point out that MS Office isn't actually natively accessible on either platform. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
All the screen readers as previously mentioned have to do quite a bit of hacking to work with it on Windows, they'll need to overhall access on both platforms imho. Mike On May 3, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Chris Moore wrote: That is because there is no built in screen reader for Windows, all the screen readers rely on scripts to work. scripting to get programs to work on OS X is not an option available to us, so therefore we have to apply pressure on Microsoft to become more compliant with Apple's standards. Adobe are making strides to improve accessibility on the Mac for Flash and Acrobat. ok it is not here, yet but it will be here within the next 12 months. We have to bare in mind that Microsoft does not make any of the screen readers on the Windows platform, so it is up to the vendors to get their products to work with the OS and it's applications. On 3 May 2011, at 19:40, E.J. Zufelt wrote: Good afternoon, Just as an FYI, MS Office for Windows isn't actually compatible with Windows screen-readers. There is a great deal of scripting required in order to make windows screen-readers work with MS Office products. I'm not saying that your campaign won't work. But, I just wanted to point out that MS Office isn't actually natively accessible on either platform. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
I think that even if the scripting system worked the same, the developer should be the one to bear that responsibility. From what I hear, programming best practices generally turn out decent programs, but Windows programmers mostly seem to be more interested in slapping the UI together as fast as possible and just make sure it can be seen with the naked eye and manipulated with a mouse. Tony Hernandez “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.” (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14) http://dutyofman.net On May 3, 2011, at 3:42 PM, Chris Moore wrote: That is because there is no built in screen reader for Windows, all the screen readers rely on scripts to work. scripting to get programs to work on OS X is not an option available to us, so therefore we have to apply pressure on Microsoft to become more compliant with Apple's standards. Adobe are making strides to improve accessibility on the Mac for Flash and Acrobat. ok it is not here, yet but it will be here within the next 12 months. We have to bare in mind that Microsoft does not make any of the screen readers on the Windows platform, so it is up to the vendors to get their products to work with the OS and it's applications. On 3 May 2011, at 19:40, E.J. Zufelt wrote: Good afternoon, Just as an FYI, MS Office for Windows isn't actually compatible with Windows screen-readers. There is a great deal of scripting required in order to make windows screen-readers work with MS Office products. I'm not saying that your campaign won't work. But, I just wanted to point out that MS Office isn't actually natively accessible on either platform. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
but how much does Microsoft do to promote that? Apple makes their accessibility stuff pretty obvious and seems to be making quite an effort to be sure that folks know about it. Tony Hernandez “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.” (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14) http://dutyofman.net On May 3, 2011, at 3:46 PM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: You are actually incorrect. Windows has both the MSAA and UIA accessibility APIs that allow developers to ensure that their applications are exposing information that can be used by assistive technology. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 3:42 PM, Chris Moore wrote: That is because there is no built in screen reader for Windows, all the screen readers rely on scripts to work. scripting to get programs to work on OS X is not an option available to us, so therefore we have to apply pressure on Microsoft to become more compliant with Apple's standards. Adobe are making strides to improve accessibility on the Mac for Flash and Acrobat. ok it is not here, yet but it will be here within the next 12 months. We have to bare in mind that Microsoft does not make any of the screen readers on the Windows platform, so it is up to the vendors to get their products to work with the OS and it's applications. On 3 May 2011, at 19:40, E.J. Zufelt wrote: Good afternoon, Just as an FYI, MS Office for Windows isn't actually compatible with Windows screen-readers. There is a great deal of scripting required in order to make windows screen-readers work with MS Office products. I'm not saying that your campaign won't work. But, I just wanted to point out that MS Office isn't actually natively accessible on either platform. Everett Zufelt http://zufelt.ca Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2011-05-03, at 2:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote: hi, Maybe we should start a campaign to get Office on the Mac accessible. Anyone up for it? If you know anyone who is willing to send an email requesting that Microsoft make their Office Suite accessible then point them to this web page.http://www.microsoft.com/mac/product-feedback Select the Office product you are interested in providing feedback for and say something like I am very interested in purchasing your Office Suite for the Macintosh platform. However, i understand your product is not accessible as it is not compatible with VoiceOver which is the built in screen reader for the blind for OS X. If you were to add support for VoiceOver, this would result in thousands of Sales. Money always gets their attention. Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
A few points from me: Windows comes with a screen reader called narrator. It's not as robust as Voiceover, but Microsoft does develop it, much the same way as one vacuums under the sofa—You're lucky if it's done every few years. Yes, I agree with the initial suggestion. Tell Microsoft you want to participate as a full user of their software. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Peer-selling can be of great benefit, like telling them that if a company like DigiDesign can render a highly complex program like ProTools accessible, it would be easy for Microsoft to do the same for its most familiar productivity software. We may also mention the fact that 65 to 70% of blind people are unemployed or underemployed. Perhaps one person could take up the initiative, start a petition and be the go to person when it comes to engaging Microsoft in a dialog, much like my hero Slau did with ProTools. In which case, a carefully articulated and well-crafted series of statements could bring light to this issue. In addition, opening lines of communication to the media on this issue could also be of benefit to our cause. This is a large issue, as there is much to explain to a largely sighted audience. Explaining how screen readers work is one thing. Explaining how a popular program like MS Word doesn't work with a Mac or Windows screen reader is a whole other challenge, orders of magnitude beyond telling the journalist that talking computers let blind people surf the web. If it's at all possible, we could establish a list of people with the skills and connections to create these documents, the petition, press releases and other communication strategies to bring attention to this issue. If there is a lawyer on the list (and I doubt it because no one answered my black's Law Dictionary question), perhaps the mention of an anti-trust investigation will get things moving. I say this with a bit of jest, so please don't fill the list with messages bashing these suggestions. I work for a radio station here in Canada and would be willing to invest resources into getting this story told. If anyone else has a media contact or connection, let's develop the tools that we need to tell this story. the only question that remains is, are you ready to change the world? Kevin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
Some excellent valid points Kevin, thank you. You have given me even more to think about. On 4 May 2011, at 01:28, Kevin Shaw wrote: A few points from me: Windows comes with a screen reader called narrator. It's not as robust as Voiceover, but Microsoft does develop it, much the same way as one vacuums under the sofa—You're lucky if it's done every few years. Yes, I agree with the initial suggestion. Tell Microsoft you want to participate as a full user of their software. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Peer-selling can be of great benefit, like telling them that if a company like DigiDesign can render a highly complex program like ProTools accessible, it would be easy for Microsoft to do the same for its most familiar productivity software. We may also mention the fact that 65 to 70% of blind people are unemployed or underemployed. Perhaps one person could take up the initiative, start a petition and be the go to person when it comes to engaging Microsoft in a dialog, much like my hero Slau did with ProTools. In which case, a carefully articulated and well-crafted series of statements could bring light to this issue. In addition, opening lines of communication to the media on this issue could also be of benefit to our cause. This is a large issue, as there is much to explain to a largely sighted audience. Explaining how screen readers work is one thing. Explaining how a popular program like MS Word doesn't work with a Mac or Windows screen reader is a whole other challenge, orders of magnitude beyond telling the journalist that talking computers let blind people surf the web. If it's at all possible, we could establish a list of people with the skills and connections to create these documents, the petition, press releases and other communication strategies to bring attention to this issue. If there is a lawyer on the list (and I doubt it because no one answered my black's Law Dictionary question), perhaps the mention of an anti-trust investigation will get things moving. I say this with a bit of jest, so please don't fill the list with messages bashing these suggestions. I work for a radio station here in Canada and would be willing to invest resources into getting this story told. If anyone else has a media contact or connection, let's develop the tools that we need to tell this story. the only question that remains is, are you ready to change the world? Kevin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Campaign to get an accessible Microsoft Office for the Mac
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Chris Moore moor...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: i am aware of that, and it offers very basic support This was true of the original MSAA API. But the newer UI Automation API is comparable to the Apple Accessibility API and the Gnome AT-SPI API. -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
