Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Curt Raymond]

And how! Its not if one will leak its when.
The early single processor G5s were also garbage. AFAIK the others were pretty 
good.

-Curt

Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:21:31 -0500
From: Allan Streib 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Brian Toscano  writes:

> Friends have owned Macs longer than I have, and I haven't heard of any
> major problems with their PPC machines.

The liquid cooled G5 machines were prone to trouble, from what I've heard.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

Sort of like the Mercedes saying, "if doesn't leak, it will" :-)

My buddy has a G5 and a 30" and they're both chugging along fine.



On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:

> The liquid cooled PPC G5 machines were the last of their kind, thank
> goodness, and the liquid cooling was an approach to try and get the max out
> of these processors without changing the form factor of the machine, I
> believe.
>
> And yes, they were troublesome.
>
> As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, these are one of those, "Not
> if, but when" sort of issues.  And when they do fail (leak) it's a very
> unpleasant thing, usually catastrophic.
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Dec 26, 2011, at 8:21 PM, Allan Streib wrote:
>
> > Brian Toscano  writes:
> >
> >> Friends have owned Macs longer than I have, and I haven't heard of any
> >> major problems with their PPC machines.
> >
> > The liquid cooled G5 machines were prone to trouble, from what I've
> heard.
> >
> > Allan
> > --
> > 1983 300D
> > 1979 300SD
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

The liquid cooled PPC G5 machines were the last of their kind, thank goodness, 
and the liquid cooling was an approach to try and get the max out of these 
processors without changing the form factor of the machine, I believe.

And yes, they were troublesome.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, these are one of those, "Not if, 
but when" sort of issues.  And when they do fail (leak) it's a very unpleasant 
thing, usually catastrophic.

Dan


On Dec 26, 2011, at 8:21 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

> Brian Toscano  writes:
> 
>> Friends have owned Macs longer than I have, and I haven't heard of any
>> major problems with their PPC machines.
> 
> The liquid cooled G5 machines were prone to trouble, from what I've heard.
> 
> Allan
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Allan Streib]

Brian Toscano  writes:

> Friends have owned Macs longer than I have, and I haven't heard of any
> major problems with their PPC machines.

The liquid cooled G5 machines were prone to trouble, from what I've heard.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

Friends have owned Macs longer than I have, and I haven't heard of any
major problems with their PPC machines.  The newer ones seem to have more
problems, but laptop batteries and SuperDrives are kind of like repairing
tie rod ends in my opinion.  Its unfortunate that people are having
graphics controller problems.





On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:

> It is going to have to have the battery installed for testing.  The
> battery would have no effect on the graphics issue, but they will want to
> test everything as a unit, so the battery is a must.
>
> I must be living right, as I have yet to own a Mac that required repairs.
>  And this is over 15+ years of Mac ownership of a lot of different
> machines, nearly all I purchased as refurbs.  The only new machines I
> bought new were an early 2006 20" iMac (which I just upgraded with a C2D
> CPU, hard drive and a total of 4GB RAM) and an early 2006 17" iMac that my
> youngest son continues to use.
>
> I have a 15" MBP CD I bought in late 2005/early 2006 as a refurb, and
> other than swapping a hard drive from a 160GB to 320GB and adding an
> 802.11n AirPort card, it's never missed a lick. I did have a failed battery
> in it covered by a recall, but I don't consider that a defect, as it was
> working just fine but the battery was covered under a recall despite
> working just fine.
>
> I have two 20" PPC iMacs out in the garage I got from Mac buddies - one
> needs a reflow on the GPU, a simple repair, and the other needs a set of
> caps on the logic board ($35 for a set.)
>
> These will be repaired over the holiday break, with the best of the two
> set up as a terminal in the kitchen since the PPC iMacs have VESA mounts,
> something later models do not have...
>
> Dan
>
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:54 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
> > I just bought a new battery.  Should I remove it before sending it
> > along with the computer if I do need to ship it for repairr?  I think
> > I know the answer - they would need the battery to rule out a battery
> > problem, right?
> >
> > On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> >> The flat rate option which requires shipping was about $300 for my
> buddy.
> >> In-store repair was about $900-1000.
> >>
> >> Since the free motherboard replacement, all I've had to do is replace
> the
> >> battery & SuperDrive.  For as much as I use the laptop, I really can't
> >> complain.  Upgrading the hard drive and memory gave it a speed boost.
>  If
> >> this one craps out, I'll probably buy another.  If it doesn't crap out,
> >> I'll probably get another sometime after the 5-6 year mark.  Thunderbolt
> >> would be nice, if it works more reliably than eSATA.
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:21 PM, andrew strasfogel
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I hope that the SN is engraved into the case and not part of the Mac
> >>> info on the hard drive that can only revealed by viewing it on the
> >>> display!
> >>>
> >>> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>  Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to
> go
> >>> the
>  flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
> 
>  If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you,
> >>> but
>  rest assured, it won't be cheap.
> 
>  Dan
> 
>  On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> 
> > "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new
> >>> motherboard.
> >
> > On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> >> Dan,
> >>
> >> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
> >> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard
> drive
> >>> to
> >> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech
> >>> "bad
> >> graphics controller".
> >>
> >> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose
> >> the
> >> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he
> probably
> >> needs
> >> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
> >> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the
> recall.
> >>
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are
> >>> documented
> >>> in
> >>> the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a
> change
> >>> in
> >>> the
> >>> issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel
> will
> >>> enlist
> >>> before moving forward.
> >>>
> >>> The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site,
> which
> >>> I
> >>> believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell
> >>> the
> >>> user
> >>> if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
> >>>
> >>> Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
> >>

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

Absolutely.  There is no question that the enterprise level IBM stuff is very 
high quality for the most part.  That being said, a lot of the commodity grade 
things that come with it (hardware, racks, slides, etc.) are just that - made 
in China and not all that well.

I helped hang a couple of IBM SAN units recently, and the rack hardware that 
came with them was cheaply made and barely substantial for what it was being 
used for, IMHO.  Not what I would have expected.

Do understand that everything we buy that is IBM also comes with support, which 
is almost as expensive as the hardware.

What's really wacky these days is their approach to software licensing - 
they're doing it by the number of processor cores that can be used by the 
program.  I suspect it's a result of so much virtualization going on.  Makes 
applying their software to existing boxes a real PITA in some cases, as you 
can't use a "fraction" of a processor core...

Dan


On Dec 24, 2011, at 1:24 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

> Dan Penoff  writes:
> 
>> I just hung a couple of them along with a controller in our data
>> center last week.  I think it was $175K worth of hardware that would
>> be equivalent to about a third of that (or less) if it had been
>> Windows boxes. Or at least that was what I was told.
> 
> To be fair, the components and build quality on that kind of stuff are
> generally quite a bit better than found on commodity Intel servers.
> Whether that makes enough of a difference to be worth the price, I
> doubt.  It'll all be obsolete in 3 years anyway.
> 
> Allan
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Allan Streib]

Dan Penoff  writes:

> I just hung a couple of them along with a controller in our data
> center last week.  I think it was $175K worth of hardware that would
> be equivalent to about a third of that (or less) if it had been
> Windows boxes. Or at least that was what I was told.

To be fair, the components and build quality on that kind of stuff are
generally quite a bit better than found on commodity Intel servers.
Whether that makes enough of a difference to be worth the price, I
doubt.  It'll all be obsolete in 3 years anyway.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

Beats me.

I just hung a couple of them along with a controller in our data center last 
week.  I think it was $175K worth of hardware that would be equivalent to about 
a third of that (or less) if it had been Windows boxes. Or at least that was 
what I was told.

I know nothing about midrange/mainframe hardware, and don't plan on learning - 
totally different stuff from what I typical work with.  Other than racking it 
up and making all the required connections, I'm done with it.

Dan (Windows servers, SAS and MSAs)

On Dec 24, 2011, at 1:07 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

> Dan Penoff  writes:
> 
>> Almost as weird as the spread between enterprise grade Windows servers
>> and IBM's AIX boxes.
> 
> Are they still using Power CPUs for those?
> 
> Allan
> 
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> 
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> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Walt Zarnoch]

SSD isn't good at a lot of repetitive writes, since it causes actual
degradation of the memory cells. For repetitive reads, they work very well.

My desktop machine uses an ssd for the OS and core programs, and a 2Tb WD
drive for everything else like caching and storage.

I also make use of the 8Gb of ram, whenever I do video work or audio work
it's on a ramdisk, same with kernel compilation.

Walt
On Dec 24, 2011 1:06 PM, "Allan Streib"  wrote:

> Dan Penoff  writes:
>
> > Believe it or not, the 12" PowerBooks are still in great demand within
> > the Mac community.  That particular model struck a great balance
> > between portability and power, and was used heavily in the Mac
> > business community.
> >
> > Resale values on these models are exceptionally high despite their age
> > and lack on Intel processors.  If you have one that's in good shape
> > it's easily worth half of what it sold for new.
>
> Good to know, as I type this on my 12" PowerBook G4.  I recently maxed
> out the RAM, considered putting in an SSD but I heard some horror
> stories from some colleagues.  They went to SSDs in their development
> machines (so they wouldn't have to wait so long for Visual Studio
> builds) and all was great for a few months, then they had a rash of
> failures.  Now they all have scheduled tasks to back up their SSDs to a
> file server every night.
>
> I switched my main browser from Safari 4 to TenFourFox (now building
> Firefox 9) which works great.  No Flash, but that's a benefit most of
> the time, and for the rare occasion when I want to watch something on
> YouTube I use MacTubes.
>
> Allan
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Allan Streib]

Dan Penoff  writes:

> Almost as weird as the spread between enterprise grade Windows servers
> and IBM's AIX boxes.

Are they still using Power CPUs for those?

Allan

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Allan Streib]

Dan Penoff  writes:

> Believe it or not, the 12" PowerBooks are still in great demand within
> the Mac community.  That particular model struck a great balance
> between portability and power, and was used heavily in the Mac
> business community.
>
> Resale values on these models are exceptionally high despite their age
> and lack on Intel processors.  If you have one that's in good shape
> it's easily worth half of what it sold for new.

Good to know, as I type this on my 12" PowerBook G4.  I recently maxed
out the RAM, considered putting in an SSD but I heard some horror
stories from some colleagues.  They went to SSDs in their development
machines (so they wouldn't have to wait so long for Visual Studio
builds) and all was great for a few months, then they had a rash of
failures.  Now they all have scheduled tasks to back up their SSDs to a
file server every night.

I switched my main browser from Safari 4 to TenFourFox (now building
Firefox 9) which works great.  No Flash, but that's a benefit most of
the time, and for the rare occasion when I want to watch something on
YouTube I use MacTubes.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Allan Streib]

Curt Raymond  writes:

> A similarly priced HP workstation would get a 3 year ON SITE
> warranty...

The PC makers pretty much all offer this on their business machines, for
the simple reason that the others do it.  Apple doesn't have any
competitors for their exact product, so they have less pressure to throw
in extra services to sweeten the deal.

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

Believe it or not, the 12" PowerBooks are still in great demand within the Mac 
community.  That particular model struck a great balance between portability 
and power, and was used heavily in the Mac business community.

Resale values on these models are exceptionally high despite their age and lack 
on Intel processors.  If you have one that's in good shape it's easily worth 
half of what it sold for new.

Dan


On Dec 24, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Peter Frederick wrote:

> Those 12" PBs were great -- iight, full sized keyboard, decent battery life, 
> and small enough not to require a huge case.  Bought one for my niece for 
> college and she loves it.  Best thing is the deep screen, since she uses it 
> mostly for writing papers and such stuff, and a "widescreen" is a pain for 
> that.  Remember the old Radius Pivot, that would give you a full page on the 
> screen?  What a concept!
> 
> The 13" MacBooks are OK, I use one some, but not as nice for word processing 
> as the 12" PB.
> 
> Only thing I gotta do with it is replace the power in board, she dropped it 
> on the power cord  and the battery only runs for a few minutes and charges 
> strangely.  Might be a bad battery, too, although I replaced it about 18 
> months ago when I got the computer.
> 
> Peter
> 
> On Dec 23, 2011, at 10:55 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
> 
>> I travelled with a 12" Powerbook and used terminal services client to tap 
>> into my static winders machines for several years.  Now I seldom use 
>> winders.  I still keep server running on a couple of boxes and have an XP 
>> box for occasional use.  The 12" PB was and still is way better for the road 
>> warrior than almost any winders laptop
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> I purchased my Mac in October 2007 and have never reinstalled the OS.  I've
>>> upgraded the OS a few times, and copied it to a new hard drive when I
>>> upgraded to a larger one, but never reinstalled :-)  The laptop was thinner
>>> and lighter (especially the power supply) than the 17" Dell I was issued at
>>> the time.  I was fortunate to work for a company that let me use my
>>> personal laptop for work and they let me return the Dell.  It saved them
>>> money and saved me the headaches of dealing with Windows on a regular
>>> basis.  :-)
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
 Yep, then there is dell that will let you talk to somebody in India. And
 then there are the times they  (Hp, Dell or ?) claim it is the OS.  Call M$
 and you get to talk to somebody in India.  If you get get them to escalate,
 then you get to talk to another schmuck in india the next day.  After
 wasting days and money, you end up wiping the drive and installing the OS
 and all software again, then it is hours of downloading, restarting and
 whatnot to get all the updates.
 
 Yes, OS 10 and the hardware have some idiosyncrasies, but M$ and generic
 hardware have a LOT of idiosyncrasies
 
 Only time I have reloaded OS 10 is after a drive dies.  Same drives as in
 generic PC hardware (Well maybe Apple uses higher MTBF drives. They don't
 use bottom of the barrel drives.)
 
 
 
  That depends.
> 
> If you are a corporate or education customer, there are qualified VARs
> that provide support.
> 
> And as an HP certified technician who used to support a part of a 40,000+
> node enterprise, I can tell you that the guy who comes to fix your HP 
> stuff
> is most likely not an HP employee, but a VAR that provides third party
> support for them.
> 
> I have not been impressed with the level of service for HP VARs. one of
> the reasons we certify in-house.
> 
> Dan
> 
 
 __**_
 http://www.okiebenz.com
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Larry]

I couldn't find the original post on this thread  - I had a display failure 
on a Acer Laptop - bought a replacement on eBay for $50 IIRC and found a 
"How To" video showing how to replace the display on my model Acer.  Very 
easy to follow step-by-step instructions...


Might work for your situation...

LarryT
91 300D

-Original Message- 
From: Peter Frederick

Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 9:54 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

Those 12" PBs were great -- iight, full sized keyboard, decent
battery life, and small enough not to require a huge case.  Bought
one for my niece for college and she loves it.  Best thing is the
deep screen, since she uses it mostly for writing papers and such
stuff, and a "widescreen" is a pain for that.  Remember the old
Radius Pivot, that would give you a full page on the screen?  What a
concept!

The 13" MacBooks are OK, I use one some, but not as nice for word
processing as the 12" PB.

Only thing I gotta do with it is replace the power in board, she
dropped it on the power cord  and the battery only runs for a few
minutes and charges strangely.  Might be a bad battery, too, although
I replaced it about 18 months ago when I got the computer.

Peter

On Dec 23, 2011, at 10:55 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

I travelled with a 12" Powerbook and used terminal services client  to tap 
into my static winders machines for several years.  Now I  seldom use 
winders.  I still keep server running on a couple of  boxes and have an XP 
box for occasional use.  The 12" PB was and  still is way better for the 
road warrior than almost any winders  laptop




I purchased my Mac in October 2007 and have never reinstalled the  OS. 
I've

upgraded the OS a few times, and copied it to a new hard drive when I
upgraded to a larger one, but never reinstalled :-)  The laptop  was 
thinner
and lighter (especially the power supply) than the 17" Dell I was  issued 
at

the time.  I was fortunate to work for a company that let me use my
personal laptop for work and they let me return the Dell.  It  saved them
money and saved me the headaches of dealing with Windows on a regular
basis.  :-)

Brian


On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>  wrote:

 Yep, then there is dell that will let you talk to somebody in  India. 
And
 then there are the times they  (Hp, Dell or ?) claim it is the  OS. 
Call M$
 and you get to talk to somebody in India.  If you get get them  to 
escalate,

 then you get to talk to another schmuck in india the next day.   After
 wasting days and money, you end up wiping the drive and  installing the 
OS
 and all software again, then it is hours of downloading,  restarting 
and

 whatnot to get all the updates.

 Yes, OS 10 and the hardware have some idiosyncrasies, but M$ and 
generic

 hardware have a LOT of idiosyncrasies

 Only time I have reloaded OS 10 is after a drive dies.  Same  drives as 
in
 generic PC hardware (Well maybe Apple uses higher MTBF drives.  They 
don't

 use bottom of the barrel drives.)



  That depends.


 If you are a corporate or education customer, there are  qualified 
VARs

 that provide support.

 And as an HP certified technician who used to support a part of  a 
40,000+
 node enterprise, I can tell you that the guy who comes to fix  your HP 
stuff
 is most likely not an HP employee, but a VAR that provides  third 
party

 support for them.

 I have not been impressed with the level of service for HP  VARs. one 
of

 the reasons we certify in-house.

 Dan



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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dieselhead]

I still have my Pivot.  Even prior to that Apple had the 2 page 
display.  It was BW but it would display 2 pages side by side.  It 
was great for assembling large documents from small, editing, 
proofing and so forth.  I found one used and gave it to the lady who 
edited my thesis and lots of others.  Her day job was editing papers 
at the veterinary Medicine Research Center, and I got it working 
there as a second monitor on a 7200 or something like that.  She 
absolutely loved it.  She could have 3 pages up at once with one on 
her radius pivot, and 2 more on the 2 page monitor.


Apple also had some  taller than wide monitors (one page) that were 
sold into education.



Those 12" PBs were great -- iight, full sized keyboard, decent 
battery life, and small enough not to require a huge case.  Bought 
one for my niece for college and she loves it.  Best thing is the 
deep screen, since she uses it mostly for writing papers and such 
stuff, and a "widescreen" is a pain for that.  Remember the old 
Radius Pivot, that would give you a full page on the screen?  What a 
concept!


The 13" MacBooks are OK, I use one some, but not as nice for word 
processing as the 12" PB.


Only thing I gotta do with it is replace the power in board, she 
dropped it on the power cord  and the battery only runs for a few 
minutes and charges strangely.  Might be a bad battery, too, 
although I replaced it about 18 months ago when I got the computer.


Peter

On Dec 23, 2011, at 10:55 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

I travelled with a 12" Powerbook and used terminal services client 
to tap into my static winders machines for several years.  Now I 
seldom use winders.  I still keep server running on a couple of 
boxes and have an XP box for occasional use.  The 12" PB was and 
still is way better for the road warrior than almost any winders 
laptop




I purchased my Mac in October 2007 and have never reinstalled the OS.  I've
upgraded the OS a few times, and copied it to a new hard drive when I
upgraded to a larger one, but never reinstalled :-)  The laptop was thinner
and lighter (especially the power supply) than the 17" Dell I was issued at
the time.  I was fortunate to work for a company that let me use my
personal laptop for work and they let me return the Dell.  It saved them
money and saved me the headaches of dealing with Windows on a regular
basis.  :-)

Brian


On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:


 Yep, then there is dell that will let you talk to somebody in India. And
 then there are the times they  (Hp, Dell or ?) claim it is the 
OS.  Call M$
 and you get to talk to somebody in India.  If you get get them 
to escalate,
 then you get to talk to another schmuck in india the next day.  
After

 wasting days and money, you end up wiping the drive and installing the OS
 and all software again, then it is hours of downloading, restarting and
 whatnot to get all the updates.

 Yes, OS 10 and the hardware have some idiosyncrasies, but M$ and generic
 hardware have a LOT of idiosyncrasies

 Only time I have reloaded OS 10 is after a drive dies.  Same drives as in
 generic PC hardware (Well maybe Apple uses higher MTBF drives. They don't
 use bottom of the barrel drives.)



  That depends.


 If you are a corporate or education customer, there are qualified VARs
 that provide support.

 And as an HP certified technician who used to support a part of a 40,000+
 node enterprise, I can tell you that the guy who comes to fix 
your HP stuff

 is most likely not an HP employee, but a VAR that provides third party
 support for them.

 I have not been impressed with the level of service for HP VARs. one of
 the reasons we certify in-house.

 Dan



 __**_
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Peter Frederick]

Those 12" PBs were great -- iight, full sized keyboard, decent  
battery life, and small enough not to require a huge case.  Bought  
one for my niece for college and she loves it.  Best thing is the  
deep screen, since she uses it mostly for writing papers and such  
stuff, and a "widescreen" is a pain for that.  Remember the old  
Radius Pivot, that would give you a full page on the screen?  What a  
concept!


The 13" MacBooks are OK, I use one some, but not as nice for word  
processing as the 12" PB.


Only thing I gotta do with it is replace the power in board, she  
dropped it on the power cord  and the battery only runs for a few  
minutes and charges strangely.  Might be a bad battery, too, although  
I replaced it about 18 months ago when I got the computer.


Peter

On Dec 23, 2011, at 10:55 PM, Dieselhead wrote:

I travelled with a 12" Powerbook and used terminal services client  
to tap into my static winders machines for several years.  Now I  
seldom use winders.  I still keep server running on a couple of  
boxes and have an XP box for occasional use.  The 12" PB was and  
still is way better for the road warrior than almost any winders  
laptop




I purchased my Mac in October 2007 and have never reinstalled the  
OS.  I've

upgraded the OS a few times, and copied it to a new hard drive when I
upgraded to a larger one, but never reinstalled :-)  The laptop  
was thinner
and lighter (especially the power supply) than the 17" Dell I was  
issued at

the time.  I was fortunate to work for a company that let me use my
personal laptop for work and they let me return the Dell.  It  
saved them

money and saved me the headaches of dealing with Windows on a regular
basis.  :-)

Brian


On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>  
wrote:


 Yep, then there is dell that will let you talk to somebody in  
India. And
 then there are the times they  (Hp, Dell or ?) claim it is the  
OS.  Call M$
 and you get to talk to somebody in India.  If you get get them  
to escalate,
 then you get to talk to another schmuck in india the next day.   
After
 wasting days and money, you end up wiping the drive and  
installing the OS
 and all software again, then it is hours of downloading,  
restarting and

 whatnot to get all the updates.

 Yes, OS 10 and the hardware have some idiosyncrasies, but M$ and  
generic

 hardware have a LOT of idiosyncrasies

 Only time I have reloaded OS 10 is after a drive dies.  Same  
drives as in
 generic PC hardware (Well maybe Apple uses higher MTBF drives.  
They don't

 use bottom of the barrel drives.)



  That depends.


 If you are a corporate or education customer, there are  
qualified VARs

 that provide support.

 And as an HP certified technician who used to support a part of  
a 40,000+
 node enterprise, I can tell you that the guy who comes to fix  
your HP stuff
 is most likely not an HP employee, but a VAR that provides  
third party

 support for them.

 I have not been impressed with the level of service for HP  
VARs. one of

 the reasons we certify in-house.

 Dan



 __**_
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/ 



 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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mercedes_**okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dieselhead]

I travelled with a 12" Powerbook and used terminal services client to 
tap into my static winders machines for several years.  Now I seldom 
use winders.  I still keep server running on a couple of boxes and 
have an XP box for occasional use.  The 12" PB was and still is way 
better for the road warrior than almost any winders laptop





I purchased my Mac in October 2007 and have never reinstalled the OS.  I've
upgraded the OS a few times, and copied it to a new hard drive when I
upgraded to a larger one, but never reinstalled :-)  The laptop was thinner
and lighter (especially the power supply) than the 17" Dell I was issued at
the time.  I was fortunate to work for a company that let me use my
personal laptop for work and they let me return the Dell.  It saved them
money and saved me the headaches of dealing with Windows on a regular
basis.  :-)

Brian


On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:


 Yep, then there is dell that will let you talk to somebody in India. And
 then there are the times they  (Hp, Dell or ?) claim it is the OS.  Call M$
 and you get to talk to somebody in India.  If you get get them to escalate,
 then you get to talk to another schmuck in india the next day.  After
 wasting days and money, you end up wiping the drive and installing the OS
 and all software again, then it is hours of downloading, restarting and
 whatnot to get all the updates.

 Yes, OS 10 and the hardware have some idiosyncrasies, but M$ and generic
 hardware have a LOT of idiosyncrasies

 Only time I have reloaded OS 10 is after a drive dies.  Same drives as in
 generic PC hardware (Well maybe Apple uses higher MTBF drives. They don't
 use bottom of the barrel drives.)



  That depends.


 If you are a corporate or education customer, there are qualified VARs
 that provide support.

 And as an HP certified technician who used to support a part of a 40,000+
 node enterprise, I can tell you that the guy who comes to fix your HP stuff
 is most likely not an HP employee, but a VAR that provides third party
 support for them.

 I have not been impressed with the level of service for HP VARs. one of
 the reasons we certify in-house.

 Dan



 __**_
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives 
http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/


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http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

Almost as weird as the spread between enterprise grade Windows servers and 
IBM's AIX boxes.

We have both at work and the disparity in costs is breathtaking

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 24, 2011, at 1:44 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:

>> Logic board is the standard terminology from way back. Apple has used the 
>> term since the Apple I.   "Motherboard" was a term used by PC clone makers, 
>> I seem to remember.
> 
> It's an easy distinction.  Both the Apple II, and its later
> pseudo-clone IBM PC, had card slots.  The Apple, at least,
> did not require any cards at all in order to work.  It wasn't
> really a mother board, in that the daughters were entirely
> optional.  (Though not uncommon.)  The IBM PC, on the other
> hand, required a video card at the very least, and so would
> qualify as a mother board.
> 
> I don't know (or remember) if, say, the S-100 bus board in the
> computers we made at my first job would qualify as "motherboard".
> It was a board, it had daughters, but there was no logic on it...
> 
> Today we'd say "backplane", because they're always rack-mounted
> vertically.  The ones I'm working on lately can sell in the
> $200,000-$2,000,000 range.  Each.  Some of the same SW I've worked
> on lately is in boxes that retail for about $250.  That spread is
> kind of weird...
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Jim Cathey]

Logic board is the standard terminology from way back. Apple has used 
the term since the Apple I.   "Motherboard" was a term used by PC 
clone makers, I seem to remember.


It's an easy distinction.  Both the Apple II, and its later
pseudo-clone IBM PC, had card slots.  The Apple, at least,
did not require any cards at all in order to work.  It wasn't
really a mother board, in that the daughters were entirely
optional.  (Though not uncommon.)  The IBM PC, on the other
hand, required a video card at the very least, and so would
qualify as a mother board.

I don't know (or remember) if, say, the S-100 bus board in the
computers we made at my first job would qualify as "motherboard".
It was a board, it had daughters, but there was no logic on it...

Today we'd say "backplane", because they're always rack-mounted
vertically.  The ones I'm working on lately can sell in the
$200,000-$2,000,000 range.  Each.  Some of the same SW I've worked
on lately is in boxes that retail for about $250.  That spread is
kind of weird...

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

I purchased my Mac in October 2007 and have never reinstalled the OS.  I've
upgraded the OS a few times, and copied it to a new hard drive when I
upgraded to a larger one, but never reinstalled :-)  The laptop was thinner
and lighter (especially the power supply) than the 17" Dell I was issued at
the time.  I was fortunate to work for a company that let me use my
personal laptop for work and they let me return the Dell.  It saved them
money and saved me the headaches of dealing with Windows on a regular
basis.  :-)

Brian


On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yep, then there is dell that will let you talk to somebody in India. And
> then there are the times they  (Hp, Dell or ?) claim it is the OS.  Call M$
> and you get to talk to somebody in India.  If you get get them to escalate,
> then you get to talk to another schmuck in india the next day.  After
> wasting days and money, you end up wiping the drive and installing the OS
> and all software again, then it is hours of downloading, restarting and
> whatnot to get all the updates.
>
> Yes, OS 10 and the hardware have some idiosyncrasies, but M$ and generic
> hardware have a LOT of idiosyncrasies
>
> Only time I have reloaded OS 10 is after a drive dies.  Same drives as in
> generic PC hardware (Well maybe Apple uses higher MTBF drives. They don't
> use bottom of the barrel drives.)
>
>
>
>  That depends.
>>
>> If you are a corporate or education customer, there are qualified VARs
>> that provide support.
>>
>> And as an HP certified technician who used to support a part of a 40,000+
>> node enterprise, I can tell you that the guy who comes to fix your HP stuff
>> is most likely not an HP employee, but a VAR that provides third party
>> support for them.
>>
>> I have not been impressed with the level of service for HP VARs. one of
>> the reasons we certify in-house.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dieselhead]

Yep, then there is dell that will let you talk to somebody in India. 
And then there are the times they  (Hp, Dell or ?) claim it is the 
OS.  Call M$ and you get to talk to somebody in India.  If you get 
get them to escalate, then you get to talk to another schmuck in 
india the next day.  After wasting days and money, you end up wiping 
the drive and installing the OS and all software again, then it is 
hours of downloading, restarting and whatnot to get all the updates.


Yes, OS 10 and the hardware have some idiosyncrasies, but M$ and 
generic hardware have a LOT of idiosyncrasies


Only time I have reloaded OS 10 is after a drive dies.  Same drives 
as in generic PC hardware (Well maybe Apple uses higher MTBF drives. 
They don't use bottom of the barrel drives.)




That depends.

If you are a corporate or education customer, there are qualified 
VARs that provide support.


And as an HP certified technician who used to support a part of a 
40,000+ node enterprise, I can tell you that the guy who comes to 
fix your HP stuff is most likely not an HP employee, but a VAR that 
provides third party support for them.


I have not been impressed with the level of service for HP VARs. one 
of the reasons we certify in-house.


Dan


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Peter Frederick]

For those who don't know what color matching is and means, it's the  
ability to reproduce the image on the screen exactly in print, taking  
into account all the variations inherent in monitors, illumination,  
and reproduction devices.  It's a huge problem in photo reproduction  
(printing images for magazines, posters, flyers, etc) where image  
color reproduction is fairly critical.  There are quite enough  
difficulties when you can actually develop a "translation file" or  
ICC file for each device in the chain and have software that can use  
them.  Without that ability, life becomes very difficult and great  
amounts of money and time are spend "adjusting" each stage of the  
process to get a finished product that looks like the screen image  
(or artist's intent).


An OS that isn't "aware" of color profiles makes the job nearly  
impossible.  Macs have had color sync software to do this job as long  
as I can remember.  It was cranky in OS 9 and earlier, nearly  
transparent in OS X.


Database management, on the other hand, is a foreign concept to Apple  
for some reason.


Peter

On Dec 23, 2011, at 7:26 PM, OK Don wrote:

We used Wintel boxes in the graphics department until we got the  
honking
color Xerox machine, then went to Macs for the color management.  
The Macs
have been no more reliable nor less prone to crashes than Windows,  
but the

color management is better.

On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Peter Frederick  
wrote:


Color management on a Mac is doable, if not exactly easy.  On a  
Windoze
machine, you simply MUST have calibration equipment that is very  
expensive

and difficult to use, and even then it's no better than Colorsync.
 Microsoft support for color matching seems to be essentially not  
present,

and of no interest to MS.

Apple was early into the desktop publishing/graphics world, and it's
fairly rare to see anything but Macs in graphics departments.  It  
can be
done in Windoze, but it's neither as good nor as easy (read fast  
and less

expensive).

Not that Apple hardware doesn't have it's quirks.

Peter



--
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[OK Don]

We used Wintel boxes in the graphics department until we got the honking
color Xerox machine, then went to Macs for the color management. The Macs
have been no more reliable nor less prone to crashes than Windows, but the
color management is better.

On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

> Color management on a Mac is doable, if not exactly easy.  On a Windoze
> machine, you simply MUST have calibration equipment that is very expensive
> and difficult to use, and even then it's no better than Colorsync.
>  Microsoft support for color matching seems to be essentially not present,
> and of no interest to MS.
>
> Apple was early into the desktop publishing/graphics world, and it's
> fairly rare to see anything but Macs in graphics departments.  It can be
> done in Windoze, but it's neither as good nor as easy (read fast and less
> expensive).
>
> Not that Apple hardware doesn't have it's quirks.
>
> Peter
>

-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dieselhead]

There are independents who will come to your site and often have 
loaners if the repair requires waiting for parts.  I have never been 
to a Apple Store, and I don't care to.  I know a couple of good 
independents that I trust far more than the company schmucks.


Apple is a pain when the main board fails.  Other than that, Anything 
else I can get parts for and fix.  If you use Macs old enough, you 
can get logic boards from SHreve systems or fleabag fleabay.



Sheesh I'd forgotten all about the Mac/Windows gamma shift. It 
wasn't much though, maybe 10-15% and you can easily correct for it 
with the video card's software.


If you're working professionally with a Mac and it fails you 
schedule an appointment and head over to the Apple store at the 
mall. Then you wait and they return it to you at some point. Or 
rather you schlep BACK to the Apple store and pick up your machine.


If your HP fails HP sends a guy to you who fixes it... Apple makes 
reasonably nice computers but their support stinks.


-Curt

Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:46:02 -0800
From: Alex Chamberlain 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Dec 23, 2011 2:25 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:

 I continue to be baffled by people
 who use Macs for professional work.



I don't want to start a religious war here, but it's not always about price
or even reliability.  There are reasons why design for print is
overwhelmingly done on Macs, for example, beyond just blind loyalty to the
platform.  I'm reliably informed by a desktop-publisher friend that Windows
support for screen-to-paper color accuracy is almost nonexistent.  There
are plenty of other examples.  Microsoft just doesn't care enough to
address certain niche markets where Apple took an early lead.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

That depends.

If you are a corporate or education customer, there are qualified VARs that 
provide support.

And as an HP certified technician who used to support a part of a 40,000+ node 
enterprise, I can tell you that the guy who comes to fix your HP stuff is most 
likely not an HP employee, but a VAR that provides third party support for them.

I have not been impressed with the level of service for HP VARs. one of the 
reasons we certify in-house.

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 23, 2011, at 7:13 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> Sheesh I'd forgotten all about the Mac/Windows gamma shift. It wasn't much 
> though, maybe 10-15% and you can easily correct for it with the video card's 
> software.
> 
> If you're working professionally with a Mac and it fails you schedule an 
> appointment and head over to the Apple store at the mall. Then you wait and 
> they return it to you at some point. Or rather you schlep BACK to the Apple 
> store and pick up your machine.
> 
> If your HP fails HP sends a guy to you who fixes it... Apple makes reasonably 
> nice computers but their support stinks.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:46:02 -0800
> From: Alex Chamberlain 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> On Dec 23, 2011 2:25 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:
>> I continue to be baffled by people
>> who use Macs for professional work.
>> 
> 
> I don't want to start a religious war here, but it's not always about price
> or even reliability.  There are reasons why design for print is
> overwhelmingly done on Macs, for example, beyond just blind loyalty to the
> platform.  I'm reliably informed by a desktop-publisher friend that Windows
> support for screen-to-paper color accuracy is almost nonexistent.  There
> are plenty of other examples.  Microsoft just doesn't care enough to
> address certain niche markets where Apple took an early lead.
> 
> Alex
> 
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Mitch Haley]

Curt Raymond wrote:


If you're working professionally with a Mac and it fails you schedule an 
appointment and head over to the Apple store at the mall.


I thought if you were working professionally with a Mac and it fails, you get 
out the spare Mac, sort of like keeping a spare tire in your trunk.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

I'd rather find my may to an Apple store if the laptop fails that deal with
Windows any more than I have to.



On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> Sheesh I'd forgotten all about the Mac/Windows gamma shift. It wasn't much
> though, maybe 10-15% and you can easily correct for it with the video
> card's software.
>
> If you're working professionally with a Mac and it fails you schedule an
> appointment and head over to the Apple store at the mall. Then you wait and
> they return it to you at some point. Or rather you schlep BACK to the Apple
> store and pick up your machine.
>
> If your HP fails HP sends a guy to you who fixes it... Apple makes
> reasonably nice computers but their support stinks.
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:46:02 -0800
> From: Alex Chamberlain 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Dec 23, 2011 2:25 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:
> > I continue to be baffled by people
> > who use Macs for professional work.
> >
>
> I don't want to start a religious war here, but it's not always about price
> or even reliability.  There are reasons why design for print is
> overwhelmingly done on Macs, for example, beyond just blind loyalty to the
> platform.  I'm reliably informed by a desktop-publisher friend that Windows
> support for screen-to-paper color accuracy is almost nonexistent.  There
> are plenty of other examples.  Microsoft just doesn't care enough to
> address certain niche markets where Apple took an early lead.
>
> Alex
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Curt Raymond]

Sheesh I'd forgotten all about the Mac/Windows gamma shift. It wasn't much 
though, maybe 10-15% and you can easily correct for it with the video card's 
software.

If you're working professionally with a Mac and it fails you schedule an 
appointment and head over to the Apple store at the mall. Then you wait and 
they return it to you at some point. Or rather you schlep BACK to the Apple 
store and pick up your machine.

If your HP fails HP sends a guy to you who fixes it... Apple makes reasonably 
nice computers but their support stinks.

-Curt

Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:46:02 -0800
From: Alex Chamberlain 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Dec 23, 2011 2:25 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:
> I continue to be baffled by people
> who use Macs for professional work.
>

I don't want to start a religious war here, but it's not always about price
or even reliability.  There are reasons why design for print is
overwhelmingly done on Macs, for example, beyond just blind loyalty to the
platform.  I'm reliably informed by a desktop-publisher friend that Windows
support for screen-to-paper color accuracy is almost nonexistent.  There
are plenty of other examples.  Microsoft just doesn't care enough to
address certain niche markets where Apple took an early lead.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Peter Frederick]

Color management on a Mac is doable, if not exactly easy.  On a  
Windoze machine, you simply MUST have calibration equipment that is  
very expensive and difficult to use, and even then it's no better  
than Colorsync.  Microsoft support for color matching seems to be  
essentially not present, and of no interest to MS.


Apple was early into the desktop publishing/graphics world, and it's  
fairly rare to see anything but Macs in graphics departments.  It can  
be done in Windoze, but it's neither as good nor as easy (read fast  
and less expensive).


Not that Apple hardware doesn't have it's quirks.

Peter

On Dec 23, 2011, at 4:46 PM, Alex Chamberlain wrote:


On Dec 23, 2011 2:25 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:

I continue to be baffled by people
who use Macs for professional work.



I don't want to start a religious war here, but it's not always  
about price

or even reliability.  There are reasons why design for print is
overwhelmingly done on Macs, for example, beyond just blind loyalty  
to the
platform.  I'm reliably informed by a desktop-publisher friend that  
Windows
support for screen-to-paper color accuracy is almost nonexistent.   
There

are plenty of other examples.  Microsoft just doesn't care enough to
address certain niche markets where Apple took an early lead.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Dec 23, 2011 2:25 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:
> I continue to be baffled by people
> who use Macs for professional work.
>

I don't want to start a religious war here, but it's not always about price
or even reliability.  There are reasons why design for print is
overwhelmingly done on Macs, for example, beyond just blind loyalty to the
platform.  I'm reliably informed by a desktop-publisher friend that Windows
support for screen-to-paper color accuracy is almost nonexistent.  There
are plenty of other examples.  Microsoft just doesn't care enough to
address certain niche markets where Apple took an early lead.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Curt Raymond]

A similarly priced HP workstation would get a 3 year ON SITE warranty...

I continue to be baffled by people who use Macs for professional work.

-Curt

Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 13:00:00 -0500
From: andrew strasfogel 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Incidentally, the Uber Genius told me that my 2008 MBP would be
categorized as a "vintage computer" in a year, which means either that
Apple will stop supporting it or that all recalls will no longer
apply.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Peter Frederick]

Logic board is the standard terminology from way back. Apple has used  
the term since the Apple I.   "Motherboard" was a term used by PC  
clone makers, I seem to remember.


Logic board makes more sense, as the hardware "logic" used to operate  
the machine resides there.


Besides, Jobs would have made something else up if everyone had used  
"logic board" for that part.


Peter

On Dec 23, 2011, at 12:00 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:


Incidentally, the Uber Genius told me that my 2008 MBP would be
categorized as a "vintage computer" in a year, which means either that
Apple will stop supporting it or that all recalls will no longer
apply.

On 12/23/11, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

It is illogical.


andrew strasfogel  writes:


 logic board


Apple-speak for motherboard.  Not sure why they use that term.

Allan
--
1983 300D
1979 300SD


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

Incidentally, the Uber Genius told me that my 2008 MBP would be
categorized as a "vintage computer" in a year, which means either that
Apple will stop supporting it or that all recalls will no longer
apply.

On 12/23/11, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is illogical.
>
>>andrew strasfogel  writes:
>>
>>>  logic board
>>
>>Apple-speak for motherboard.  Not sure why they use that term.
>>
>>Allan
>>--
>>1983 300D
>>1979 300SD
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dieselhead]

It is illogical.


andrew strasfogel  writes:


 logic board


Apple-speak for motherboard.  Not sure why they use that term.

Allan
--
1983 300D
1979 300SD


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Allan Streib]

andrew strasfogel  writes:

> FWIW, the UG* said they would fix everything on the computer that
> needs fixin' while replacing the bad part.

That's because replacing the "logic board" is essentially giving you a
new computer.  It's an all-in-one assembly.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Peter Frederick]

The usual problem with those video chips (and it's not isolated to  
the Macbooks, by the way) is poor soldering and inadequate cooling,  
with the result that the surface mount chip solder connection (these  
are ball grid array, meaning that the connections are a grid on the  
bottom of the chip) fail to conduct, resulting in no video.  Easy to  
check, as an external monitor will be dead as well, unlike when the  
cable to the display cracks, another common failure.


Apple has had serious issues with improper/inadequate soldering for  
years, probably a result of where they are made (China) and the  
tendency of the makers to cheat on solder paste to raise profits.   
IBM had an issue with some ThinkPads a few years ago, so did Sony  
with the VIAO line of laptops where the memory chip sockets  
disconnect.  I've got a 15" G4 Powerbook with both issues, been  
meaning to get a re-flow set up going to fix it, can't lose since it  
doesn't work now.


Apple's obsession with "thin"  (actually, Steve Job's) resulted in  
much less than normal reliability in those products.  Typically Apple  
computers are near bulletproof, but starting in 2003 or so  
reliability went down the drain -- probably because they switched  
from Malaysia to China for manufacturing.  Way too many failures (10%  
and up) and very little support -- "just buy a new one" to the tune  
of $2500 was the typical response.


My BIL bought three MacBooks a few years back for his family -- two  
13" and a 15" pro, and one of the 13" ones ran a whole hour before  
dying completely.  Pretty low quality demonstration, eh?  Totally  
inert, had to swap it for a new one.


Peter

On Dec 23, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Jim Cathey wrote:

BTW its "nVidia" not Nvideo and the video card is part of the  
logic board (known as a motherboard on every other computer)


Erroneously, if you ask me.  Logic board is more correct, since the
board is not a 'mother' to others.


and a big thank you to Apple for making them one piece.


This is done for system reliability reasons, as connectors are one
of the least reliable components in a computer.  Inherently.  They
also take up more room, or at least the more reliable ones do, which
is not something you can usually afford in a laptop!

It is unfortunate that the PC component vendor made a batch of
crappy parts that got into production.

I hate that Apple now basically makes the same shit as everybody else.

Our newest computer is an iMac G4.  Maybe ten years old or so.   
They're

all still working great.  By surfing the trailing edge we've basically
avoided all the lemon models.  Mac, Fat Mac, Mac +, Portable, IIci,  
SE 30,
7500/100, G3 beige, Wallstreet, Pismo (4!), iMac (stalk display).   
All are
either working now, or were working when last used.  I expect to  
pick up

a non-liquid-cooled G5 fairly soon, when the right one turns up, and I
suppose my wife's lust for something new or not very old will put us
into Intel laptop world soon enough, but I try not to think about  
that.


-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Jim Cathey]

BTW its "nVidia" not Nvideo and the video card is part of the logic 
board (known as a motherboard on every other computer)


Erroneously, if you ask me.  Logic board is more correct, since the
board is not a 'mother' to others.


and a big thank you to Apple for making them one piece.


This is done for system reliability reasons, as connectors are one
of the least reliable components in a computer.  Inherently.  They
also take up more room, or at least the more reliable ones do, which
is not something you can usually afford in a laptop!

It is unfortunate that the PC component vendor made a batch of
crappy parts that got into production.

I hate that Apple now basically makes the same shit as everybody else.

Our newest computer is an iMac G4.  Maybe ten years old or so.  They're
all still working great.  By surfing the trailing edge we've basically
avoided all the lemon models.  Mac, Fat Mac, Mac +, Portable, IIci, SE 
30,
7500/100, G3 beige, Wallstreet, Pismo (4!), iMac (stalk display).  All 
are

either working now, or were working when last used.  I expect to pick up
a non-liquid-cooled G5 fairly soon, when the right one turns up, and I
suppose my wife's lust for something new or not very old will put us
into Intel laptop world soon enough, but I try not to think about that.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

Sorry for my faux pas.

FWIW, the UG* said they would fix everything on the computer that
needs fixin' while replacing the bad part.

*uber genius

On 12/23/11, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> Good luck with that. I've never seen a "Genius" based repair that took less
> than 2 weeks for what I could do in 2 hours...
>
> BTW its "nVidia" not Nvideo and the video card is part of the logic board
> (known as a motherboard on every other computer) and a big thank you to
> Apple for making them one piece. Apple should get an award for being one of
> the least green companies around. Non-replaceable batteries in phones and
> ipods being another example.
>
> -Curt
>
> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 23:21:46 -0500
> From: andrew strasfogel 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I spoke to soon.  The uber Genius at the Apple Store said 1) recall is
> over, 2) I don't have the Nvideo any way, and 3) diagnostics showed it's
> the logic board that needs replacing.  Off it goes to Genius land for
> repair.
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 5:25 PM, clay monroe  wrote:
>
>> OWC has been offering a few used machines in the $400+ range.  Might be a
>> source for parts or usable machine and your old one for parts
>>
>> clay
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Curt Raymond]

Good luck with that. I've never seen a "Genius" based repair that took less 
than 2 weeks for what I could do in 2 hours...

BTW its "nVidia" not Nvideo and the video card is part of the logic board 
(known as a motherboard on every other computer) and a big thank you to Apple 
for making them one piece. Apple should get an award for being one of the least 
green companies around. Non-replaceable batteries in phones and ipods being 
another example.

-Curt

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 23:21:46 -0500
From: andrew strasfogel 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I spoke to soon.  The uber Genius at the Apple Store said 1) recall is
over, 2) I don't have the Nvideo any way, and 3) diagnostics showed it's
the logic board that needs replacing.  Off it goes to Genius land for
repair.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 5:25 PM, clay monroe  wrote:

> OWC has been offering a few used machines in the $400+ range.  Might be a
> source for parts or usable machine and your old one for parts
>
> clay

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Fmiser]

> > andrew strasfogel  writes:
> >
> > logic board

> Allan Streib wrote:
> 
> Apple-speak for motherboard.  Not sure why they use that term.

"logic board" is probably more accurate.  A motherboard is
really only a motherboard if there are daughter-boards connected
to it.  In anything but modern computers, a motherboard may be
not much more than a long row of card-edge connectors and a
connection buss.  As the computer evolved, more and more logic
moved to the motherboard to the point it doesn't fit the
original definition anymore.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Allan Streib]

andrew strasfogel  writes:

> logic board

Apple-speak for motherboard.  Not sure why they use that term.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

I spoke to soon.  The uber Genius at the Apple Store said 1) recall is
over, 2) I don't have the Nvideo any way, and 3) diagnostics showed it's
the logic board that needs replacing.  Off it goes to Genius land for
repair.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 5:25 PM, clay monroe  wrote:

> OWC has been offering a few used machines in the $400+ range.  Might be a
> source for parts or usable machine and your old one for parts
>
> clay
>
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 12:43 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
>
> > The flat rate option which requires shipping was about $300 for my buddy.
> > In-store repair was about $900-1000.
> >
> > Since the free motherboard replacement, all I've had to do is replace the
> > battery & SuperDrive.  For as much as I use the laptop, I really can't
> > complain.  Upgrading the hard drive and memory gave it a speed boost.  If
> > this one craps out, I'll probably buy another.  If it doesn't crap out,
> > I'll probably get another sometime after the 5-6 year mark.  Thunderbolt
> > would be nice, if it works more reliably than eSATA.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:21 PM, andrew strasfogel <
> astrasfo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> I hope that the SN is engraved into the case and not part of the Mac
> >> info on the hard drive that can only revealed by viewing it on the
> >> display!
> >>
> >> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> >>> Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to
> go
> >> the
> >>> flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
> >>>
> >>> If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you,
> >> but
> >>> rest assured, it won't be cheap.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> >>>
>  "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new
> >> motherboard.
> 
>  On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> > Dan,
> >
> > I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
> > diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive
> >> to
> > boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech
> >> "bad
> > graphics controller".
> >
> > Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose
> the
> > problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably
> > needs
> > a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
> > independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
> >
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff 
> wrote:
> >
> >> The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are
> documented
> >> in
> >> the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change
> >> in
> >> the
> >> issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
> >> enlist
> >> before moving forward.
> >>
> >> The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site,
> which
> >> I
> >> believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell
> the
> >> user
> >> if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
> >>
> >> Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
> >>
> >>> In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.
>  Basically
> >>> the
> >>> graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
> >> completely
> >>> dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I
> >> did
> >> and
> >>> in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer
> >> was
> >>> subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell
> >> him.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this
> >> when I
>  get home tonight.
> 
>  What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first
> time -
>  after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled
> >> it.
>  Could this have been a coincidence?
> 
> 
>  On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> > Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which
> is
> > the
> > procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by
> > holding
>  down
> > the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear
> the
>  "bong"
> > sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3
> times
> > with
>  the
> > "bong" sound and then let it start up.
> >
> > This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to
> default
> > settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the
> > procedure

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[clay monroe]

OWC has been offering a few used machines in the $400+ range.  Might be a 
source for parts or usable machine and your old one for parts

clay

On Dec 21, 2011, at 12:43 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:

> The flat rate option which requires shipping was about $300 for my buddy.
> In-store repair was about $900-1000.
> 
> Since the free motherboard replacement, all I've had to do is replace the
> battery & SuperDrive.  For as much as I use the laptop, I really can't
> complain.  Upgrading the hard drive and memory gave it a speed boost.  If
> this one craps out, I'll probably buy another.  If it doesn't crap out,
> I'll probably get another sometime after the 5-6 year mark.  Thunderbolt
> would be nice, if it works more reliably than eSATA.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:21 PM, andrew strasfogel 
> wrote:
> 
>> I hope that the SN is engraved into the case and not part of the Mac
>> info on the hard drive that can only revealed by viewing it on the
>> display!
>> 
>> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>>> Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to go
>> the
>>> flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
>>> 
>>> If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you,
>> but
>>> rest assured, it won't be cheap.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>>> 
 "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new
>> motherboard.
 
 On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> Dan,
> 
> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive
>> to
> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech
>> "bad
> graphics controller".
> 
> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose the
> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably
> needs
> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
> 
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> 
>> The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are documented
>> in
>> the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change
>> in
>> the
>> issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
>> enlist
>> before moving forward.
>> 
>> The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site, which
>> I
>> believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell the
>> user
>> if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
>> 
>> Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
>> 
>>> In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.  Basically
>>> the
>>> graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
>> completely
>>> dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I
>> did
>> and
>>> in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer
>> was
>>> subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell
>> him.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this
>> when I
 get home tonight.
 
 What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
 after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled
>> it.
 Could this have been a coincidence?
 
 
 On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is
> the
> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by
> holding
 down
> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
 "bong"
> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times
> with
 the
> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
> 
> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the
> procedure
 you
> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
> 
> Dan
> 
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> 
>> Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external
>> display
>> port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a
>> Mac.
>> When you plug in the external display, you get it.
>> 
>> I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008
>> with
 MBPs,
>> so there migh

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

Brian,

You nailed it.  My computer is covered by the Nvidia recall, so I can
drop it of at the nearby Applie Store at 7:15 tonight to get it fixed
free of charge.  Thanks!!  :))

I must say, the folks on this list are among the most helpful on this
(or any other) planet.

Andrew
2 300TDs and a black screen MBP

On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> I don't know where to look up the serial number, but here is a link from
> Apple's web site:
> http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377
>
> Symptoms
>
> In July 2008, NVIDIA publicly acknowledged a higher than normal failure
> rate for some of their graphics processors due to a packaging defect. At
> that same time, NVIDIA assured Apple that Mac computers with these graphics
> processors were not affected. However, after an Apple-led investigation,
> Apple has determined that some MacBook Pro computers with the NVIDIA
> GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor may be affected. If the NVIDIA graphics
> processor in your MacBook Pro has failed, or fails within four years of the
> original date of purchase, a repair will be done free of charge, even if
> your MacBook Pro is out of warranty.
>
> *What to look for:
> *
>
>- Distorted or scrambled video on the computer screen
>- No video on the computer screen (or external display) even though the
>computer is on
>
> *Specific products affected:*
>
>- MacBook Pro 15-inch and 17-inch models with NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT
>graphics processors
>- MacBook Pro (17-Inch, 2.4GHz)
>   - MacBook Pro (15-Inch, 2.4/2.2GHz)
>   - MacBook Pro (Early 2008)
>- These computers were manufactured between approximately May 2007 and
>September 2008
>
> Products Affected
>
> MacBook Pro, models with NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processors
> Resolution
>
> If your MacBook Pro is exhibiting any of the symptoms listed above, please
> take it to an Apple Retail Store  or
> anApple Authorized Service Provider 
> (AASP)
> for evaluation, or call your nearest Apple Contact
> Center.
> Before visiting the Genius Bar at the Apple Retail Store, please make a
> reservation  (available in some
> countries only).
>
> Apple is issuing refunds to customers who may have paid for repairs related
> to this issue. Please contact
> Apple for
> details on the refund process.
>
> *Note*: If your MacBook Pro is not experiencing any of these symptoms, you
> do not need to contact Apple.
>
> Apple will continue to evaluate the repair data and will provide further
> repair extensions as needed.
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 8:55 PM, andrew strasfogel
> wrote:
>
>> With a magnifying glass I was able to read the serial number:  W87411ZHYAL
>>
>> Is this computer still under the campaign?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>>
>> > Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to go
>> > the flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
>> >
>> > If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you,
>> but
>> > rest assured, it won't be cheap.
>> >
>> > Dan
>> >
>> > On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>> >
>> > > "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new
>> > motherboard.
>> > >
>> > > On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
>> > >> Dan,
>> > >>
>> > >> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
>> > >> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive
>> to
>> > >> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech
>> "bad
>> > >> graphics controller".
>> > >>
>> > >> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose
>> the
>> > >> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably
>> > needs
>> > >> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
>> > >> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Brian
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff 
>> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are
>> documented
>> > in
>> > >>> the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change
>> in
>> > >>> the
>> > >>> issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
>> > >>> enlist
>> > >>> before moving forward.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site,
>> which I
>> > >>> believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell
>> the
>> > >>> user
>> > >>> if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
>> > >>>
>> >  In my experience, all of the

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

Andrew,

I don't know where to look up the serial number, but here is a link from
Apple's web site:
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377

Symptoms

In July 2008, NVIDIA publicly acknowledged a higher than normal failure
rate for some of their graphics processors due to a packaging defect. At
that same time, NVIDIA assured Apple that Mac computers with these graphics
processors were not affected. However, after an Apple-led investigation,
Apple has determined that some MacBook Pro computers with the NVIDIA
GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor may be affected. If the NVIDIA graphics
processor in your MacBook Pro has failed, or fails within four years of the
original date of purchase, a repair will be done free of charge, even if
your MacBook Pro is out of warranty.

*What to look for:
*

   - Distorted or scrambled video on the computer screen
   - No video on the computer screen (or external display) even though the
   computer is on

*Specific products affected:*

   - MacBook Pro 15-inch and 17-inch models with NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT
   graphics processors
   - MacBook Pro (17-Inch, 2.4GHz)
  - MacBook Pro (15-Inch, 2.4/2.2GHz)
  - MacBook Pro (Early 2008)
   - These computers were manufactured between approximately May 2007 and
   September 2008

Products Affected

MacBook Pro, models with NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processors
Resolution

If your MacBook Pro is exhibiting any of the symptoms listed above, please
take it to an Apple Retail Store  or
anApple Authorized Service Provider  (AASP)
for evaluation, or call your nearest Apple Contact
Center.
Before visiting the Genius Bar at the Apple Retail Store, please make a
reservation  (available in some
countries only).

Apple is issuing refunds to customers who may have paid for repairs related
to this issue. Please contact
Apple for
details on the refund process.

*Note*: If your MacBook Pro is not experiencing any of these symptoms, you
do not need to contact Apple.

Apple will continue to evaluate the repair data and will provide further
repair extensions as needed.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 8:55 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> With a magnifying glass I was able to read the serial number:  W87411ZHYAL
>
> Is this computer still under the campaign?
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>
> > Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to go
> > the flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
> >
> > If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you,
> but
> > rest assured, it won't be cheap.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> >
> > > "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new
> > motherboard.
> > >
> > > On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> > >> Dan,
> > >>
> > >> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
> > >> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive
> to
> > >> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech
> "bad
> > >> graphics controller".
> > >>
> > >> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose
> the
> > >> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably
> > needs
> > >> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
> > >> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Brian
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff 
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are
> documented
> > in
> > >>> the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change
> in
> > >>> the
> > >>> issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
> > >>> enlist
> > >>> before moving forward.
> > >>>
> > >>> The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site,
> which I
> > >>> believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell
> the
> > >>> user
> > >>> if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
> > >>>
> > >>> Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
> > >>>
> >  In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.
>  Basically
> >  the
> >  graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
> > >>> completely
> >  dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I
> > did
> > >>> and
> >  in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer
> was
> >  subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell
> him.
> > 
> > 
> >  On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > > Thanks.

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

With a magnifying glass I was able to read the serial number:  W87411ZHYAL

Is this computer still under the campaign?

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:

> Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to go
> the flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
>
> If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you, but
> rest assured, it won't be cheap.
>
> Dan
>
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
> > "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new
> motherboard.
> >
> > On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> >> Dan,
> >>
> >> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
> >> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive to
> >> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech "bad
> >> graphics controller".
> >>
> >> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose the
> >> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably
> needs
> >> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
> >> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
> >>
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> >>
> >>> The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are documented
> in
> >>> the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change in
> >>> the
> >>> issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
> >>> enlist
> >>> before moving forward.
> >>>
> >>> The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site, which I
> >>> believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell the
> >>> user
> >>> if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
> >>>
> >>> Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
> >>>
>  In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.  Basically
>  the
>  graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
> >>> completely
>  dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I
> did
> >>> and
>  in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer was
>  subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell him.
> 
> 
>  On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
>  wrote:
> 
> > Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when
> I
> > get home tonight.
> >
> > What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
> > after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled
> it.
> > Could this have been a coincidence?
> >
> >
> > On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> >> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is
> the
> >> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by
> >> holding
> > down
> >> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
> > "bong"
> >> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times
> >> with
> > the
> >> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
> >>
> >> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
> >> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the
> >> procedure
> > you
> >> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> >>
> >>> Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external
> >>> display
> >>> port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a
> Mac.
> >>> When you plug in the external display, you get it.
> >>>
> >>> I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008
> with
> > MBPs,
> >>> so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the
> > affected.
> >>> If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if
> >>> this
> >>> applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> >>>
>  Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda,
>  MD.
> 
>  My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and
>  off,
>  using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
>  triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
> 
> 
>  On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
> > Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an
> >>> apple
> > authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last
> > resort,
> > based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about
> > technology.
> >
> > Allan
> >
> 

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

I tired it that way - no change in the display.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:

> andrew strasfogel  writes:
>
> > Incidentally, the PRAM test was a complete disaster! I held down the P, R
> >  Option + Command keys for several minutes, yet the computer was utterly
> > unresponsive - didn't turn off/restart.
>
> You turn the computer off first, then turn it on while holding those
> keys down.  Helps if you have another person since otherwise you sort of
> need three hands.
>
> Allan
>
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Curt Raymond]

With a second Mac and a firewire cable he could boot into target disc mode, 
copy the data off and bobs-yer-uncle.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 15:38:23 -0700
From: Brian Toscano 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The only problem for Andrew is he cannot see anything to make such a backup.

I keep two sets of my hard drives.  One set is off-site in case of fire or
burglary.

Brian


___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Allan Streib]

andrew strasfogel  writes:

> Incidentally, the PRAM test was a complete disaster! I held down the P, R
>  Option + Command keys for several minutes, yet the computer was utterly
> unresponsive - didn't turn off/restart.

You turn the computer off first, then turn it on while holding those
keys down.  Helps if you have another person since otherwise you sort of
need three hands.

Allan

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

Who wanted to know the serial number - Dan?

With a magnifying glass I was able to read it:  W87411ZHYAL

Am I covered under the recall?

Incidentally, the PRAM test was a complete disaster! I held down the P, R
 Option + Command keys for several minutes, yet the computer was utterly
unresponsive - didn't turn off/restart.


On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:

> The only problem for Andrew is he cannot see anything to make such a
> backup.
>
> I keep two sets of my hard drives.  One set is off-site in case of fire or
> burglary.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>
> > They really hammer this home in GSX, their repair system.  I suspect it's
> > because people never make backups and then find out the hard drive got
> > replaced during a repair, effectively nuking years of data (pictures and
> > music, no doubt!)
> >
> > The easiest way to do this if you have an external HD that's big enough
> is
> > to use Disk Utility and make a .dmg of the complete drive.  That way if
> it
> > comes back with a new or nuked drive, you can easily restore in a matter
> of
> > an hour or less.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > On Dec 21, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Allan Streib wrote:
> >
> > >> I'd just send as-is, but make a hard drive backup if you have the
> > >> equipment to do so.
> > >
> > > Absolutely do, Apple will replace the hard drive without asking if
> that's
> > > somehow the problem.  Or so I was told when I had my MacBook Pro sent
> in
> > > for a dead *external* display (it needed a new main board, covered
> under
> > > AppleCare.  The shop stressed this several times, and when I dropped it
> > > off they said "you do have a backup of your files, right?"
> > >
> > > Allan
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

The only problem for Andrew is he cannot see anything to make such a backup.

I keep two sets of my hard drives.  One set is off-site in case of fire or
burglary.

Brian



On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:

> They really hammer this home in GSX, their repair system.  I suspect it's
> because people never make backups and then find out the hard drive got
> replaced during a repair, effectively nuking years of data (pictures and
> music, no doubt!)
>
> The easiest way to do this if you have an external HD that's big enough is
> to use Disk Utility and make a .dmg of the complete drive.  That way if it
> comes back with a new or nuked drive, you can easily restore in a matter of
> an hour or less.
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Allan Streib wrote:
>
> >> I'd just send as-is, but make a hard drive backup if you have the
> >> equipment to do so.
> >
> > Absolutely do, Apple will replace the hard drive without asking if that's
> > somehow the problem.  Or so I was told when I had my MacBook Pro sent in
> > for a dead *external* display (it needed a new main board, covered under
> > AppleCare.  The shop stressed this several times, and when I dropped it
> > off they said "you do have a backup of your files, right?"
> >
> > Allan
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Curt Raymond]

Ahhh, my life as a phone tech. I saw and heard of many, many mac failures.

The 9500, complete POS. As I remember you had to take the whole logic board out 
to add RAM.
Actually step back a little farther to the whole nubus system; "PCI cards are 
much too robust, lets make something really flimsy".

Early G5s were a delight. I had one customer who's G5 had the fan all the way 
up all the time. Took it to the Apple store (this is the guy who wrote the 
screenplay for "Get Shorty" BTW) and they turned the fans down. Now the fans 
would never spin up so it would overheat. Took it back to the Apple store, fans 
full speed again!
Finally after about a month of farting around Apple finally replaced it with an 
upgraded version that didn't suck.

The last G5s were also a disaster, liquid cooling that after a number (a fairly 
high number but still a finite number) of heating/cooling cycles would leak. In 
extreme cases the computer would catch on fire.

Many many failures of video cards because Apple places some kind of weird 
demand on the hardware manufacturers so they have to make special Mac only 
cards, thus the video cards are much more expensive than PC. Oh and the 
frustration (working for a 3rd party manufacturer anyway) when they bounce back 
and forth between manufacturers of video cards. If you use those cards for 
hardware acceleration it DOES make a difference.

The last G4s were a delight since they had no case fan... Oh wait, you want 
hardware in the machine? It'll overheat, need to add a fan, no we didn't make 
any provision for that.

Finally the G5 case which can't be mounted in a standard 19" rack. Apple's 
solution? Cut the ears off the case...
The removable ears on the G4 were such an elegant solution!


Anyway I personally have very few computer issues period and considering the 
kind of work I do (video production) and how it stresses the machine thats a 
big of a surprise...

-Curt

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 13:33:16 -0800
From: Alex Chamberlain 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Dec 21, 2011 1:18 PM, "Dan Penoff"  wrote:
> I must be living right, as I have yet to own a Mac that required repairs.
And this is over 15+ years of Mac ownership of a lot of different
machines,

You're not the only one.  Never needed any Mac fixed since the first one I
bought (an SE, in 1987--the first one I *used* was a Plus, but my reaction
was "This is pretty cool, but I'll wait to buy one until they put a fan and
a hard drive in it.").

Alex


___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

They really hammer this home in GSX, their repair system.  I suspect it's 
because people never make backups and then find out the hard drive got replaced 
during a repair, effectively nuking years of data (pictures and music, no 
doubt!)

The easiest way to do this if you have an external HD that's big enough is to 
use Disk Utility and make a .dmg of the complete drive.  That way if it comes 
back with a new or nuked drive, you can easily restore in a matter of an hour 
or less.

Dan


On Dec 21, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

>> I'd just send as-is, but make a hard drive backup if you have the
>> equipment to do so.
> 
> Absolutely do, Apple will replace the hard drive without asking if that's
> somehow the problem.  Or so I was told when I had my MacBook Pro sent in
> for a dead *external* display (it needed a new main board, covered under
> AppleCare.  The shop stressed this several times, and when I dropped it
> off they said "you do have a backup of your files, right?"
> 
> Allan
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Allan Streib]

> I'd just send as-is, but make a hard drive backup if you have the
> equipment to do so.

Absolutely do, Apple will replace the hard drive without asking if that's
somehow the problem.  Or so I was told when I had my MacBook Pro sent in
for a dead *external* display (it needed a new main board, covered under
AppleCare.  The shop stressed this several times, and when I dropped it
off they said "you do have a backup of your files, right?"

Allan

___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Dec 21, 2011 1:18 PM, "Dan Penoff"  wrote:
> I must be living right, as I have yet to own a Mac that required repairs.
 And this is over 15+ years of Mac ownership of a lot of different
machines,

You're not the only one.  Never needed any Mac fixed since the first one I
bought (an SE, in 1987--the first one I *used* was a Plus, but my reaction
was "This is pretty cool, but I'll wait to buy one until they put a fan and
a hard drive in it.").

Alex
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

It is going to have to have the battery installed for testing.  The battery 
would have no effect on the graphics issue, but they will want to test 
everything as a unit, so the battery is a must.

I must be living right, as I have yet to own a Mac that required repairs.  And 
this is over 15+ years of Mac ownership of a lot of different machines, nearly 
all I purchased as refurbs.  The only new machines I bought new were an early 
2006 20" iMac (which I just upgraded with a C2D CPU, hard drive and a total of 
4GB RAM) and an early 2006 17" iMac that my youngest son continues to use.

I have a 15" MBP CD I bought in late 2005/early 2006 as a refurb, and other 
than swapping a hard drive from a 160GB to 320GB and adding an 802.11n AirPort 
card, it's never missed a lick. I did have a failed battery in it covered by a 
recall, but I don't consider that a defect, as it was working just fine but the 
battery was covered under a recall despite working just fine.

I have two 20" PPC iMacs out in the garage I got from Mac buddies - one needs a 
reflow on the GPU, a simple repair, and the other needs a set of caps on the 
logic board ($35 for a set.)

These will be repaired over the holiday break, with the best of the two set up 
as a terminal in the kitchen since the PPC iMacs have VESA mounts, something 
later models do not have...

Dan

On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:54 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> I just bought a new battery.  Should I remove it before sending it
> along with the computer if I do need to ship it for repairr?  I think
> I know the answer - they would need the battery to rule out a battery
> problem, right?
> 
> On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
>> The flat rate option which requires shipping was about $300 for my buddy.
>> In-store repair was about $900-1000.
>> 
>> Since the free motherboard replacement, all I've had to do is replace the
>> battery & SuperDrive.  For as much as I use the laptop, I really can't
>> complain.  Upgrading the hard drive and memory gave it a speed boost.  If
>> this one craps out, I'll probably buy another.  If it doesn't crap out,
>> I'll probably get another sometime after the 5-6 year mark.  Thunderbolt
>> would be nice, if it works more reliably than eSATA.
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:21 PM, andrew strasfogel
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I hope that the SN is engraved into the case and not part of the Mac
>>> info on the hard drive that can only revealed by viewing it on the
>>> display!
>>> 
>>> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
 Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to go
>>> the
 flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
 
 If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you,
>>> but
 rest assured, it won't be cheap.
 
 Dan
 
 On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
 
> "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new
>>> motherboard.
> 
> On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
>> Dan,
>> 
>> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
>> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive
>>> to
>> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech
>>> "bad
>> graphics controller".
>> 
>> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose
>> the
>> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably
>> needs
>> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
>> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
>> 
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> 
>>> The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are
>>> documented
>>> in
>>> the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change
>>> in
>>> the
>>> issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
>>> enlist
>>> before moving forward.
>>> 
>>> The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site, which
>>> I
>>> believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell
>>> the
>>> user
>>> if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
>>> 
>>> Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
>>> 
 In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.
 Basically
 the
 graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
>>> completely
 dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I
>>> did
>>> and
 in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer
>>> was
 subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell
>>> him.
 
 
 On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

I'd just send as-is, but make a hard drive backup if you have the equipment
to do so.



On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:54 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> I just bought a new battery.  Should I remove it before sending it
> along with the computer if I do need to ship it for repairr?  I think
> I know the answer - they would need the battery to rule out a battery
> problem, right?
>
> On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> > The flat rate option which requires shipping was about $300 for my buddy.
> >  In-store repair was about $900-1000.
> >
> > Since the free motherboard replacement, all I've had to do is replace the
> > battery & SuperDrive.  For as much as I use the laptop, I really can't
> > complain.  Upgrading the hard drive and memory gave it a speed boost.  If
> > this one craps out, I'll probably buy another.  If it doesn't crap out,
> > I'll probably get another sometime after the 5-6 year mark.  Thunderbolt
> > would be nice, if it works more reliably than eSATA.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:21 PM, andrew strasfogel
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I hope that the SN is engraved into the case and not part of the Mac
> >> info on the hard drive that can only revealed by viewing it on the
> >> display!
> >>
> >> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> >> > Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to
> go
> >> the
> >> > flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
> >> >
> >> > If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you,
> >> but
> >> > rest assured, it won't be cheap.
> >> >
> >> > Dan
> >> >
> >> > On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new
> >> motherboard.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> >> >>> Dan,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
> >> >>> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard
> drive
> >> to
> >> >>> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech
> >> "bad
> >> >>> graphics controller".
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he
> probably
> >> >>> needs
> >> >>> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
> >> >>> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the
> recall.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Brian
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff 
> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >>  The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are
> >>  documented
> >>  in
> >>  the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a
> change
> >> in
> >>  the
> >>  issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel
> will
> >>  enlist
> >>  before moving forward.
> >> 
> >>  The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site,
> which
> >> I
> >>  believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell
> >>  the
> >>  user
> >>  if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
> >> 
> >>  Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
> >> 
> >> 
> >>  On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
> >> 
> >> > In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.
> >> > Basically
> >> > the
> >> > graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
> >>  completely
> >> > dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as
> I
> >> did
> >>  and
> >> > in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer
> >> was
> >> > subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell
> >> him.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this
> >> when I
> >> >> get home tonight.
> >> >>
> >> >> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first
> time
> >> >> -
> >> >> after I removed the battery for several hours and then
> reinstalled
> >> it.
> >> >> Could this have been a coincidence?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> >> >>> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which
> is
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by
> >> >>> holding
> >> >> down
> >> >>> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear
> >> >>> the
> >> >> "bong"
> >> >>> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3
> times
> >> >>> with
> >> >> the
> >> >>> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to
> >> >>> default
> >> >>> se

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

I just bought a new battery.  Should I remove it before sending it
along with the computer if I do need to ship it for repairr?  I think
I know the answer - they would need the battery to rule out a battery
problem, right?

On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> The flat rate option which requires shipping was about $300 for my buddy.
>  In-store repair was about $900-1000.
>
> Since the free motherboard replacement, all I've had to do is replace the
> battery & SuperDrive.  For as much as I use the laptop, I really can't
> complain.  Upgrading the hard drive and memory gave it a speed boost.  If
> this one craps out, I'll probably buy another.  If it doesn't crap out,
> I'll probably get another sometime after the 5-6 year mark.  Thunderbolt
> would be nice, if it works more reliably than eSATA.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:21 PM, andrew strasfogel
> wrote:
>
>> I hope that the SN is engraved into the case and not part of the Mac
>> info on the hard drive that can only revealed by viewing it on the
>> display!
>>
>> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> > Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to go
>> the
>> > flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
>> >
>> > If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you,
>> but
>> > rest assured, it won't be cheap.
>> >
>> > Dan
>> >
>> > On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>> >
>> >> "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new
>> motherboard.
>> >>
>> >> On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
>> >>> Dan,
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
>> >>> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive
>> to
>> >>> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech
>> "bad
>> >>> graphics controller".
>> >>>
>> >>> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose
>> >>> the
>> >>> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably
>> >>> needs
>> >>> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
>> >>> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Brian
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> >>>
>>  The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are
>>  documented
>>  in
>>  the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change
>> in
>>  the
>>  issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
>>  enlist
>>  before moving forward.
>> 
>>  The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site, which
>> I
>>  believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell
>>  the
>>  user
>>  if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
>> 
>>  Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
>> 
>> 
>>  On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
>> 
>> > In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.
>> > Basically
>> > the
>> > graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
>>  completely
>> > dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I
>> did
>>  and
>> > in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer
>> was
>> > subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell
>> him.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this
>> when I
>> >> get home tonight.
>> >>
>> >> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time
>> >> -
>> >> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled
>> it.
>> >> Could this have been a coincidence?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> >>> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is
>> >>> the
>> >>> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by
>> >>> holding
>> >> down
>> >>> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear
>> >>> the
>> >> "bong"
>> >>> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times
>> >>> with
>> >> the
>> >>> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
>> >>>
>> >>> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to
>> >>> default
>> >>> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the
>> >>> procedure
>> >> you
>> >>> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
>> >>>
>> >>> Dan
>> >>>
>> >>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> >>>
>>  Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external
>>  display
>>  port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a
>>  Mac.
>> >

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

The flat rate option which requires shipping was about $300 for my buddy.
 In-store repair was about $900-1000.

Since the free motherboard replacement, all I've had to do is replace the
battery & SuperDrive.  For as much as I use the laptop, I really can't
complain.  Upgrading the hard drive and memory gave it a speed boost.  If
this one craps out, I'll probably buy another.  If it doesn't crap out,
I'll probably get another sometime after the 5-6 year mark.  Thunderbolt
would be nice, if it works more reliably than eSATA.

Brian





On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:21 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> I hope that the SN is engraved into the case and not part of the Mac
> info on the hard drive that can only revealed by viewing it on the
> display!
>
> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> > Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to go
> the
> > flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
> >
> > If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you,
> but
> > rest assured, it won't be cheap.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> >
> >> "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new
> motherboard.
> >>
> >> On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> >>> Dan,
> >>>
> >>> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
> >>> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive
> to
> >>> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech
> "bad
> >>> graphics controller".
> >>>
> >>> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose the
> >>> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably
> >>> needs
> >>> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
> >>> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Brian
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> >>>
>  The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are documented
>  in
>  the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change
> in
>  the
>  issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
>  enlist
>  before moving forward.
> 
>  The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site, which
> I
>  believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell the
>  user
>  if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
> 
>  Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
> 
> 
>  On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
> 
> > In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.  Basically
> > the
> > graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
>  completely
> > dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I
> did
>  and
> > in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer
> was
> > subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell
> him.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this
> when I
> >> get home tonight.
> >>
> >> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
> >> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled
> it.
> >> Could this have been a coincidence?
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> >>> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is
> >>> the
> >>> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by
> >>> holding
> >> down
> >>> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
> >> "bong"
> >>> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times
> >>> with
> >> the
> >>> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
> >>>
> >>> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
> >>> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the
> >>> procedure
> >> you
> >>> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> >>>
>  Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external
>  display
>  port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a
>  Mac.
>  When you plug in the external display, you get it.
> 
>  I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008
> with
> >> MBPs,
>  so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the
> >> affected.
>  If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see
> if
>  this
>  applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
> 
>  Dan
> 
> 
>  On Dec 2

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

I hope that the SN is engraved into the case and not part of the Mac
info on the hard drive that can only revealed by viewing it on the
display!

On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to go the
> flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.
>
> If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you, but
> rest assured, it won't be cheap.
>
> Dan
>
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
>> "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new motherboard.
>>
>> On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
>>> Dan,
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
>>> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive to
>>> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech "bad
>>> graphics controller".
>>>
>>> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose the
>>> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably
>>> needs
>>> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
>>> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>>>
 The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are documented
 in
 the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change in
 the
 issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
 enlist
 before moving forward.

 The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site, which I
 believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell the
 user
 if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.

 Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)


 On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:

> In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.  Basically
> the
> graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
 completely
> dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I did
 and
> in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer was
> subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell him.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when I
>> get home tonight.
>>
>> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
>> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled it.
>> Could this have been a coincidence?
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>>> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is
>>> the
>>> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by
>>> holding
>> down
>>> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
>> "bong"
>>> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times
>>> with
>> the
>>> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
>>>
>>> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
>>> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the
>>> procedure
>> you
>>> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>>>
 Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external
 display
 port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a
 Mac.
 When you plug in the external display, you get it.

 I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with
>> MBPs,
 so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the
>> affected.
 If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if
 this
 applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.

 Dan


 On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda,
> MD.
>
> My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and
> off,
> using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
> triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
>
>
> On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
>> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an
 apple
>> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last
>> resort,
>> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about
>> technology.
>>
>> Allan
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>>> Before you panic, try 

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

Worst case if it's not something covered under a campaign would be to go the 
flat fee repair they offer if you want to keep it.

If I had a serial number I could look up the part on GSX and tell you, but rest 
assured, it won't be cheap.

Dan

On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:11 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> "He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new motherboard.
> 
> On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
>> Dan,
>> 
>> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
>> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive to
>> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech "bad
>> graphics controller".
>> 
>> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose the
>> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably needs
>> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
>> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
>> 
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> 
>>> The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are documented in
>>> the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change in
>>> the
>>> issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
>>> enlist
>>> before moving forward.
>>> 
>>> The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site, which I
>>> believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell the
>>> user
>>> if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
>>> 
>>> Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
>>> 
 In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.  Basically
 the
 graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
>>> completely
 dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I did
>>> and
 in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer was
 subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell him.
 
 
 On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
 wrote:
 
> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when I
> get home tonight.
> 
> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled it.
> Could this have been a coincidence?
> 
> 
> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is the
>> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by
>> holding
> down
>> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
> "bong"
>> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times
>> with
> the
>> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
>> 
>> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
>> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the
>> procedure
> you
>> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> 
>>> Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external
>>> display
>>> port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.
>>> When you plug in the external display, you get it.
>>> 
>>> I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with
> MBPs,
>>> so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the
> affected.
>>> If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if
>>> this
>>> applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda,
 MD.
 
 My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and
 off,
 using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
 triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
 
 
 On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an
>>> apple
> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last
> resort,
> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about
> technology.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see
>>> if
>> you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an
>>> issue
>> with the display.
>> 
>> If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
>> Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if th

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

"He" being me, I am curious as to what it will cost for a new motherboard.

On 12/21/11, Brian Toscano  wrote:
> Dan,
>
> I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
> diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive to
> boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech "bad
> graphics controller".
>
> Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose the
> problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably needs
> a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
> independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.
>
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>
>> The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are documented in
>> the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change in
>> the
>> issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will
>> enlist
>> before moving forward.
>>
>> The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site, which I
>> believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell the
>> user
>> if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
>>
>> Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
>>
>>
>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
>>
>> > In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.  Basically
>> > the
>> > graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
>> completely
>> > dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I did
>> and
>> > in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer was
>> > subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell him.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when I
>> >> get home tonight.
>> >>
>> >> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
>> >> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled it.
>> >> Could this have been a coincidence?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> >>> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is the
>> >>> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by
>> >>> holding
>> >> down
>> >>> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
>> >> "bong"
>> >>> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times
>> >>> with
>> >> the
>> >>> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
>> >>>
>> >>> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
>> >>> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the
>> >>> procedure
>> >> you
>> >>> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
>> >>>
>> >>> Dan
>> >>>
>> >>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> >>>
>>  Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external
>> display
>>  port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.
>>  When you plug in the external display, you get it.
>> 
>>  I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with
>> >> MBPs,
>>  so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the
>> >> affected.
>>  If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if
>> this
>>  applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
>> 
>>  Dan
>> 
>> 
>>  On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>> 
>> > Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda,
>> > MD.
>> >
>> > My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and
>> > off,
>> > using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
>> > triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
>> >
>> >
>> > On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
>> >> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an
>> apple
>> >> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last
>> >> resort,
>> >> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about
>> >> technology.
>> >>
>> >> Allan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> >>> Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see
>> if
>> >>> you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an
>> issue
>> >>> with the display.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
>> >>> Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you.
>> >> Apple
>> >>> Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
>> >>>
>> >>> Dan
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >>
>> >>

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

Dan,

I'm not sure if they changed the procedures since my motherboard was
diagnosed and replaced, but back then they used a FireWire hard drive to
boot externally and it generated a light pattern that told the tech "bad
graphics controller".

Troubleshooting procedures should be followed to correctly diagnose the
problem, but I can say that from personal experience that he probably needs
a new motherboard since the graphics controller cannot be changed
independently and that it may or may not be covered under the recall.


Brian




On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:

> The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are documented in
> the Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change in the
> issue, they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will enlist
> before moving forward.
>
> The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site, which I
> believe also includes a serial number check utility that will tell the user
> if their machine is included in the replacement campaign.
>
> Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:
>
> > In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.  Basically the
> > graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just
> completely
> > dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I did
> and
> > in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer was
> > subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell him.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when I
> >> get home tonight.
> >>
> >> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
> >> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled it.
> >> Could this have been a coincidence?
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> >>> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is the
> >>> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by holding
> >> down
> >>> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
> >> "bong"
> >>> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times with
> >> the
> >>> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
> >>>
> >>> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
> >>> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the procedure
> >> you
> >>> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> >>>
>  Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external
> display
>  port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.
>  When you plug in the external display, you get it.
> 
>  I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with
> >> MBPs,
>  so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the
> >> affected.
>  If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if
> this
>  applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
> 
>  Dan
> 
> 
>  On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> 
> > Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.
> >
> > My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
> > using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
> > triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
> >
> >
> > On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
> >> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an
> apple
> >> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
> >> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about
> >> technology.
> >>
> >> Allan
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> >>> Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see
> if
> >>> you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an
> issue
> >>> with the display.
> >>>
> >>> If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
> >>> Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you.
> >> Apple
> >>> Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://w

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

I am willing to wager a Milt Romney $10,000 bill that the problem
cannot be solved by a simple reset.

On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> Probably not.  I'm not directly familiar with this issue, but removing power
> from a machine for a period of time can cause some interesting changes.
> That's one of the reasons why it's a part of the troubleshooting process
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 12:55 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
>> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when I
>> get home tonight.
>>
>> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
>> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled it.
>> Could this have been a coincidence?
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>>> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is the
>>> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by holding
>>> down
>>> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
>>> "bong"
>>> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times with
>>> the
>>> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
>>>
>>> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
>>> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the procedure
>>> you
>>> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>>>
 Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external display
 port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.
 When you plug in the external display, you get it.

 I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with
 MBPs,
 so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the
 affected.
 If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if this
 applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.

 Dan


 On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.
>
> My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
> using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
> triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
>
>
> On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
>> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an apple
>> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
>> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about
>> technology.
>>
>> Allan
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>>> Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if
>>> you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue
>>> with the display.
>>>
>>> If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
>>> Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you.
>>> Apple
>>> Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


 ___
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 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.ok

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

Probably not.  I'm not directly familiar with this issue, but removing power 
from a machine for a period of time can cause some interesting changes.  That's 
one of the reasons why it's a part of the troubleshooting process

Dan


On Dec 21, 2011, at 12:55 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when I
> get home tonight.
> 
> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled it.
> Could this have been a coincidence?
> 
> 
> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is the
>> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by holding down
>> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the "bong"
>> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times with the
>> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
>> 
>> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
>> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the procedure you
>> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> 
>>> Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external display
>>> port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.
>>> When you plug in the external display, you get it.
>>> 
>>> I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with MBPs,
>>> so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the affected.
>>> If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if this
>>> applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.
 
 My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
 using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
 triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
 
 
 On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an apple
> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about technology.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if
>> you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue
>> with the display.
>> 
>> If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
>> Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you. Apple
>> Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

The resets are part of the troubleshooting process, and are documented in the 
Apple service literature. While they don't always yield a change in the issue, 
they are valid steps that the Genius or repair personnel will enlist before 
moving forward.

The nVidia issue is clearly documented on Apple's Support site, which I believe 
also includes a serial number check utility that will tell the user if their 
machine is included in the replacement campaign.

Dan (GSX certified Apple Tech)


On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Brian Toscano wrote:

> In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.  Basically the
> graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just completely
> dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I did and
> in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer was
> subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell him.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when I
>> get home tonight.
>> 
>> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
>> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled it.
>> Could this have been a coincidence?
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>>> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is the
>>> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by holding
>> down
>>> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
>> "bong"
>>> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times with
>> the
>>> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
>>> 
>>> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
>>> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the procedure
>> you
>>> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>>> 
 Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external display
 port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.
 When you plug in the external display, you get it.
 
 I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with
>> MBPs,
 so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the
>> affected.
 If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if this
 applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
 
 Dan
 
 
 On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
 
> Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.
> 
> My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
> using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
> triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
> 
> 
> On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
>> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an apple
>> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
>> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about
>> technology.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>>> Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if
>>> you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue
>>> with the display.
>>> 
>>> If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
>>> Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you.
>> Apple
>>> Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/merced

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

My advise is to take it to the Apple Store in Bethesda or Tysons, let them
diagnose and tell you what to do.  Ask them about the nVIDIA recall issue
and if your machine is covered under that.  If its not covered, shipping it
is much cheaper than an in-store repair and reasonably fast (less than 1
week).


On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Brian Toscano wrote:

> In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.  Basically the
> graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just completely
> dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I did and
> in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer was
> subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell him.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when I
>> get home tonight.
>>
>> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
>> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled it.
>>  Could this have been a coincidence?
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> > Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is the
>> > procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by holding
>> down
>> > the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
>> "bong"
>> > sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times with
>> the
>> > "bong" sound and then let it start up.
>> >
>> > This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
>> > settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the procedure
>> you
>> > have.  Again, it won't break anything.
>> >
>> > Dan
>> >
>> > On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> >
>> >> Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external
>> display
>> >> port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.
>> >> When you plug in the external display, you get it.
>> >>
>> >> I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with
>> MBPs,
>> >> so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the
>> affected.
>> >> If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if
>> this
>> >> applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
>> >>
>> >> Dan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.
>> >>>
>> >>> My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
>> >>> using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
>> >>> triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
>>  Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an
>> apple
>>  authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
>>  based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about
>> technology.
>> 
>>  Allan
>> 
>> 
>>  On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> > Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see
>> if
>> > you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an
>> issue
>> > with the display.
>> >
>> > If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
>> > Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you.
>> Apple
>> > Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
>> >
>> > Dan
>> >
>> 
>>  ___
>>  http://www.okiebenz.com
>>  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
>> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >>>
>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >>
>> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and use

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

In my experience, all of these resets are a waste of time.  Basically the
graphics card will flake out a couple of time and then its just completely
dead.  My buddy went through all of the resets, battery swaps, as I did and
in both cases a new motherboard was the only fix.  If his computer was
subject to the nVIDIA issue, they didn't know that or didn't tell him.


On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, andrew strasfogel
wrote:

> Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when I
> get home tonight.
>
> What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
> after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled it.
>  Could this have been a coincidence?
>
>
> On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> > Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is the
> > procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by holding
> down
> > the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the
> "bong"
> > sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times with
> the
> > "bong" sound and then let it start up.
> >
> > This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
> > settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the procedure
> you
> > have.  Again, it won't break anything.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> >
> >> Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external display
> >> port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.
> >> When you plug in the external display, you get it.
> >>
> >> I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with
> MBPs,
> >> so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the
> affected.
> >> If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if this
> >> applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.
> >>>
> >>> My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
> >>> using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
> >>> triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
>  Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an apple
>  authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
>  based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about
> technology.
> 
>  Allan
> 
> 
>  On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> > Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if
> > you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue
> > with the display.
> >
> > If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
> > Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you.
> Apple
> > Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> 
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
>  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
___
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For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

Thanks.  Apple support told me the same thing so I will do this when I
get home tonight.

What puzzles me is why the screen came back to life the first time -
after I removed the battery for several hours and then reinstalled it.
 Could this have been a coincidence?


On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is the
> procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by holding down
> the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the "bong"
> sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times with the
> "bong" sound and then let it start up.
>
> This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default
> settings.  Try your display after this and if no joy, try the procedure you
> have.  Again, it won't break anything.
>
> Dan
>
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>
>> Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external display
>> port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.
>> When you plug in the external display, you get it.
>>
>> I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with MBPs,
>> so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the affected.
>> If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if this
>> applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.
>>>
>>> My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
>>> using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
>>> triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
 Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an apple
 authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
 based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about technology.

 Allan


 On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if
> you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue
> with the display.
>
> If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
> Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you. Apple
> Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
>
> Dan
>

 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>

___
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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

Even before you reset the NVRAM and the power controller, which is the 
procedure you describe, try resetting the PRAM, which you do by holding down 
the P + R + Command + Option keys during startup until you hear the "bong" 
sound - keep holding them down and let the machine restart 3 times with the 
"bong" sound and then let it start up.

This won't hurt anything and will reset the machine back to default settings.  
Try your display after this and if no joy, try the procedure you have.  Again, 
it won't break anything.

Dan

On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:

> Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external display port 
> be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.  When you 
> plug in the external display, you get it.
> 
> I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with MBPs, so 
> there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the affected.  If 
> you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if this 
> applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> 
>> Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.
>> 
>> My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
>> using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
>> triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
>>> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an apple
>>> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
>>> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about technology.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
 Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if
 you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue
 with the display.
 
 If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
 Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you. Apple
 Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
 
 Dan
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

Great advice - will do!

I googled the manual and here are two other ideas.

1. "If the first two suggestions do not solve the problem, return the
computer to its
factory settings by disconnecting the power adapter, removing the battery, and
holding down the power (®) button for at least 5 seconds

2. "Hold down the Command (x) and Control keys and press the power (®) button to
restart the system"

I am a little uneasy about the first recommendation, although it
sounds like it might be worth a try.  The only way I habve been
turning off the computer while the display is dark is by holding down
the power button.  Is that a no-no?


On 12/21/11, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external display
> port be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.  When
> you plug in the external display, you get it.
>
> I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with MBPs,
> so there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the affected.
> If you take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if this
> applies.  If so, they'll fix it for free.
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
>> Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.
>>
>> My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
>> using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
>> triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
>>> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an apple
>>> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
>>> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about technology.
>>>
>>> Allan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
 Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if
 you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue
 with the display.

 If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
 Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you. Apple
 Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.

 Dan

>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

Unlike a Windows based PC, Macs do not require that the external display port 
be toggled on and off.  There is no "Fn + F4" function on a Mac.  When you plug 
in the external display, you get it.

I checked, and the NVidia graphics issue went through late 2008 with MBPs, so 
there might be a possibility that your machine is one of the affected.  If you 
take it to the Apple Store they will check it out and see if this applies.  If 
so, they'll fix it for free.

Dan


On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:39 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.
> 
> My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
> using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
> triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?
> 
> 
> On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
>> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an apple
>> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
>> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about technology.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>>> Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if
>>> you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue
>>> with the display.
>>> 
>>> If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
>>> Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you. Apple
>>> Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[andrew strasfogel]

Thanks!  Fortunately, there is an Apple Store in nearby Bethesda, MD.

My son said to toggle the external screen display setting on and off,
using a combination of keystrokes that I may have inadvertently
triggered.  Does anyone know what those keystrokes are?


On 12/21/11, Allan Streib  wrote:
> Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an apple
> authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
> based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about technology.
>
> Allan
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if
>> you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue
>> with the display.
>>
>> If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
>> Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you. Apple
>> Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>

___
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For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Allan Streib]

Even if you don't have a local apple store, you probably have an apple
authorized repair shop.  I'd go with Best Buy only as a last resort,
based on the one here nobody working there has a clue about technology.

Allan


On Wed, Dec 21, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if
> you get a signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue
> with the display.
>
> If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an
> Apple Store or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you. Apple
> Store = free, Best Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.
>
> Dan
>

___
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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Dan Penoff]

Before you panic, try connecting it to an external display and see if you get a 
signal.  If so, your graphics card is OK, you have an issue with the display.

If you don't have an adapter for an external monitor, swing by an Apple Store 
or a Best Buy and see if they will check it for you.  Apple Store = free, Best 
Buy will nick you for a bench fee, I'll bet.

Dan


On Dec 21, 2011, at 10:00 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> My 2008 MacBook Pro laptop has lost its display.  The first time this
> happened (black screen),was after the unit was plugged in (recharged)
> overnight.  I reset the battery (removed it for a couple hours),
> reinstalled it and the screen sprang back to life.  Now it's happened
> again, but this time the battery removal trick doesn't work.  Is there
> any quick fix or diagnostic I can do at home?  Or should I just take
> it to the Geek Squad at Best Buy?
> 
> Andrew
> Mercedes content:  Nil
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: MacPro laptop display failure

[Brian Toscano]

Its possible the graphics controller has died in which case you will need a
new motherboard.  Get it diagnosed first and see what they say.  Apple has
a flat rate repair if you ship the laptop to Texas ~ $300-325.  My buddy
just had the graphics go out on his '07 MBP.  About 18 months ago mine went
out, but that was a bit different because nVIDIA had a recall on the
graphics chip so Apple replaced the motherboard for free.


On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 8:00 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> My 2008 MacBook Pro laptop has lost its display.  The first time this
> happened (black screen),was after the unit was plugged in (recharged)
> overnight.  I reset the battery (removed it for a couple hours),
> reinstalled it and the screen sprang back to life.  Now it's happened
> again, but this time the battery removal trick doesn't work.  Is there
> any quick fix or diagnostic I can do at home?  Or should I just take
> it to the Geek Squad at Best Buy?
>
> Andrew
> Mercedes content:  Nil
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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