[meteorite-list] Meteorite Wedding Bands

[John Gwilliam]

Good Morning List,
I've had someone who's not a list member contact me concerning meteorite 
wedding bands.  I remember years ago that Bud Eisler used to make them but 
I can't find an active website for Bud.

Anyone with any info about where to find the iron meteorite wedding bands, 
please contact me off list.

Best,

John Gwilliam

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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite from Jupiter

[John Gwilliam]

Michael and List,
After hearing that several of our list members received the same letter, 
I'm convinced that this is another case of pure ignorance and nothing 
more.  If it is a scam, these folks didn't do their homework well enough to 
find out that meteorites from Jupiter don't exist.
One of our intrepid list members lives quite close to the senders of this 
letter and I have given him their contact information.  After he has 
visited with Mrs. Cheung, he'll report his experience to the list.

Best,

John

At 12:24 AM 9/23/03 -0700, Michael L Blood wrote:
I got one of these too,
What blows me away is it costs this dip s 37c to mail each of
these letters - what does she think? That meteorite dealers just fell
off the turnip truck?
Weird.
Michael
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[meteorite-list] Meteorite from Jupiter

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,
In this morning's mail, I received an unusual letter from a Mrs. Cheung in 
Alamo, California.  The letter says they are contacting me (the recipient 
of the letter) for a friend who wants some help selling some meteorites in 
her possession.  It goes on to say that some of the stones have already 
been identified as meteorites by the Bishop Museum in Honolulu.

They list five different samples that have been identified by the museum 
and they list densities for the specimens but no weights.

Here is the interesting information in the letter.

" In addition to the samples she has given us some photographs of the 
meteorites.  During a conversation with her, one of the meteorites was 
identified as coming from the planet Jupiter."

Imagine that, a meteorite from Jupiter!

If anyone wants to pursue this, let me know and I'll give you the contact 
information....;-)

Best,

John Gwilliam



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Re: [meteorite-list] Kentucky?

[John Gwilliam]

If my memory is correct, Meteorite List member, Brad Sampson is located in 
Lexington, KY.  I've never talked to anyone that has met Brad in person, 
but many of us have had dealings with him.

Best,

John

At 02:34 PM 9/20/03 -0700, Tom aka James Knudson wrote:
Hello List, Looks like things might be looking up for me, finally! I got a
job offer in Lexington Kentucky. Just got to work out the details.  I am
into meteorites, not race horses, is there anything or anyone interesting in
Kentucky? I think this will be safer the Iraq!!!  : )
Thanks, Tom
Peregrineflier <><
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168


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Re: [meteorite-list] Denver Show - Part II

[John Gwilliam]

Adam and the Denver Desperados,
Okay guys...all of you that were present in Denver keep referring to these 
aweful "oatmeal cookies...aka...death cookies"  mixed drinks.  Knowing most 
of you guys, I thought you'd drink just about anything;-)  Would one of you 
be so kind as to give us a better description of this drink,  or better yet 
the suspected recipe?

Inquiring Mind,

John

At 12:57 PM 9/18/03 -0700, Adam Hupe wrote:
Oh the dreaded "oatmeal cookies".  These have since been renamed "death 
cookies" because they cause category 5 type hangovers which means 
catatonic.  I hope these are not proudly served at Tucson.

All the best,

Adam


- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
l.com
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Denver Show - Part II

In a message dated 18/09/03 01:49:23 GMT Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

a middle age man This man was Rob Elliott.


Middle-aged???
Mark, please remind me to buy you several large "oatmeal cookies" next 
Denver show ;-)

Rob Elliott
www.meteorites.uk.com
Fernlea Meteorites,
The Wynd,
Off Dickson Lane,
Milton of Balgonie,
Fife. KY7 6PY
United Kingdom
Tel: +44-(0)1592-751563
Fax: +44-(0)1592-751991
Mobile: 07909-773929
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [meteorite-list] Denver Show - Part II

[John Gwilliam]

I noticed the same reference to Rob..."middle age man."   I've heard him 
called a lot of different things but never that!

Best,

John

At 12:26 PM 9/18/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 18/09/03 01:49:23 GMT Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

a middle age man This man was Rob Elliott.


Middle-aged???
Mark, please remind me to buy you several large "oatmeal cookies" next 
Denver show ;-)

Rob Elliott
www.meteorites.uk.com
Fernlea Meteorites,
The Wynd,
Off Dickson Lane,
Milton of Balgonie,
Fife. KY7 6PY
United Kingdom
Tel: +44-(0)1592-751563
Fax: +44-(0)1592-751991
Mobile: 07909-773929
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [meteorite-list] dronino (in)stability: a solution ?

[John Gwilliam]

Rust Sufferers,

You might consider using Steve Schoner's tried and true sodium hydroxide 
process.  I had several slices of old Campo that would rust no matter how 
may times I polished them or how dry I kept them.  Then, two years ago, I 
used the sodium hydroxide process and the slices have been rust free ever 
since.  One of the slices sits in a metal pan out in my garage where it is 
subject to the heat and humidity and there is absolutely no rust on it.

Best,

John Gwilliam

At 06:21 PM 9/16/03 +0200, Zelimir Gabelica wrote:
Hello Steve, Matteo, List,

Dronino seems to be very versatile to rusting indeed.
-I got a small slice from Sergey Vasiliev in May 2003 with not any rust
problem so far (now about 4 months after).
-I purchesed 2 other slices in Ensisheim (June 21) from Serguei (Serge)
Afanasiev and one month after they both were fully covered with rust,
basically all around the silicate inclusions.
- I purchased another small slice from Vasiliev in Ensisheim and today it is
just as fresh as in June
Apparently either every Dronino piece is intrinsicaly different or it is a
problem of cutting method and precautions taken after cutting, but probably
not a storage problem because all the 4 slices were stored in the very same
drawers and boxes, with just, as (poor) protection, a silica bag in between
the cotton wool and the plastic box bottom.
Having nothing to loose with Serge's slices and not having on hand any
reliable recipe nor chemicals, I directly tried the first commercial product
I found in a Department Store (in Belgium).
It is a tube of compact (wax-like) "paste" named "STRAHLDUR" (German brand
?) sold for a few euros as a "mirror finish without polishing" for current
domestic houseworks...
Operatory conditions, as written on the tube and box, in 6 languages (also
in italian, Matteo!), suggest to "apply Strahldur" on a WET sponge for
"stainless steel, copper, brass, tin, chromium, aluminum, but also plastics,
enamel, glass, tiles bathroom fittings, sink, hot-plates, oven grill,
toaster, kettle, IRON, cutlery, resopal kitchen furniture, refrigerators,
window frames, garden furniture, and much much more"...moreover: "it removes
RUST from chrom plated parts and dirt from wheel rims"...
It so continues:
"Wash the object (with a wet sponge) and dry (wipe off)...ready!"...
Any warnings ? Not really. They write: "Strahldur contains NO ACID and is
gentle to the skin"...
Composition ? "contains "mineral polish" (?), emulsified paraffin, natural
soap, "cleansing raw materials" (?)...and a "fresh orange fragrance"
(probably to remove tha latest doubts of a semi-convinced housewife"...).
As a chemist, I realized that the paste could prove relatively harmful to
most of metallic objects. And the metals cited above (including rust!) can
mostly be involved in a meteorite as well!
Without preliminary trials on any other meteorite, I just then removed most
of the superficial rust from my 2 dirty Droninos with a razor blade (dry
conditions) and then applied Strahldur with a DRY cloth (I IGNORED wetting
for obvious reasons) for about 2 minutes, by gently rubbing all around the
slices. Then just gently polished with another soft cloth so as to recover
the initial mirror-brillant polish.
The slices immediately recovered their initial aspect and were mint again!
This treatment was performed 5 weeks ago and I just checked the 2 slices
today: perfect with not any trace of rust! (remember that rust appeared 1
month after purchase of the mint slices).
This can be a first step towards a solution of rust removing from our
polished iron slices and, in particular, Dronino.
 I am however cautious and prefer waiting for more time but so far this kind
of simple treatment appears fairly promising.
I will, of course, keep you informed. But the message here can be that,
instead of using complicated and harm chemicals (such as preliminary I
wanted to use in a laboratory), it is perhaps preferable to put our faith
into very common cleaning products for housewifes. They are, by definition,
not dengerous, must be efficient and, especially, polyvalent, thus for a lot
if different uses, probably including meteorite cleaning, rust removing and,
possibly, further protecting through some film (my speculation).
I almost forgot.
 I further tried this product to remove some rust spots from an etched iron
involving Widmannstätten pattern.
As all my Gibeons are "desperatly" stable, I tried to treat a slice of
SPEARMAN (Om IIIAB, Texas). Rust was immediately gone but the W pattern
remained untouched!
This is (for me) an even more promising result as it was always a nightmare
for me to have to remove rust from a slice through some chemical (acid) and
then re-treat with Nitol (or FeCl3) to recover the W pattern.
Glad if this helps and happy to answer any further question or comment,

All the b

Re: [meteorite-list] Shipping theft IE HIGH CHARGES

[John Gwilliam]

Anne, Mike and List,
I agree with Mike, it is wasteful to send items of small value (let's say 
$25.00) via Priority mail.  However, when the value of the shipped item is 
higher than that, Priority is the safest way to go.

Let me explain what I mean by "safest."

A few years ago, I shipped an item to a first time buyer via 1st Class at 
his request.  After a week or so, I started receiving daily emails from him 
that he hadn't received the item yet.  After several more days, he demanded 
a refund of his money.  If I remember correctly, the item sold for around 
$90.00 and had cost me $60.00.  To keep my Ebay customer happy, I had to 
send him a refund or face the possibility of receiving negative 
feedback.  After that, I made it a policy to ship all items valued over 
$25.00 via USPS Priority with a Delivery Confirmation.  Using this system, 
I can track the shipment of the package.
A month or so later, the same Ebay bidder won another item which was worth 
about $100.00.  The description in my auction clearly stated that I 
shipping on that item would be via USPS Priority.  I received his payment, 
shipped the item Priority ( with Delivery Confirmation) and thought I was 
done with it.  The buyer sent me an email a week or so later..."where's my 
package?"   I told him I'd sent it and he went into his previous routine 
about wanting a refund if he didn't receive the package.  I went to the 
USPS website and tracked the package.  It had been delivered to him four 
days prior.  I figured he'd received the package and would now be 
happy.  But, a few days later, I get another email from him and he's now 
demanding a refund.  His email included his phone number so I called 
him.  I let him rant and rave for a minute or so and then told him I had 
proof that the package had been delivered to him three days after I had 
shipped it.  After a few tongue tied moments he said he'd get back with 
me.  Later, he did call me back and say that his wife had received the 
package a week before, had opened it, put it on "the wrong desk" and 
neglected to tell him about it.

Shipping Priority + Delivery Confirmation saved me $100.00.

Now, very few dishonest, thank goodness for that, but I've had enough 
problems similar to the one above that I ship Priority to people I haven't 
dealt with before and/or if the value of the item justifies it.

Best,

John

At 10:41 PM 9/9/03 -0700, Michael Farmer wrote:
Anne and all, that is a waste, tiny items shipped priority? I have found 
over the last 7 years of doing this that first class almost always arrives 
just as timely.
Of course, as long as you send that way and charge that then it is ok. I 
am talking more about the people who charge one rate and send at a lower 
weight. I have had several emails from clients of mine who discuss this 
about other dealers.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
l.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shipping theft IE HIGH CHARGES

In a message dated 9/9/2003 11:09:16 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



I just saw one dealer who is on this list, selling a 1 gram Taza stone 
and adding $3.85 shipping charge. It costs .45 cents to ship and maybe 
.20 cents for the envelope. NET gain for the dealer $3.00 profit on the 
shipping alone.


unless it is shipped by Priority Mail then the dealer is making $0 on 
shipping. I don't know about you but I ship practically everything in the 
States by Priority Mail, safer and quicker.
BTW: I did not take the time to go search Ebay to see who you are talking 
about, just a tad busy right now.

Anne M. Black
www. IMPACTIKA.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IMCA  #2356


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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Putorano

[John Gwilliam]

All of the Putorana (fka Putorano Plateau) specimens that I've seen looked 
amazingly similar.  However, the mesosiderite Lamont could pass for 
Putorana as they look very similar.

The TKW that made it's way into the USA market a few years ago was 
<100KG.  But, I have talked to two different Russians who claim there is 
much, much more of this material still in the field.  My guess is that no 
one really knows for sure.

Best,

John

At 10:41 PM 9/5/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Matt and list,

How much Putorano is out there?  What is it's TKW?  I realize it's not a
meteorite and TKW may not apply, but how can one judge it's rarity?
By the way, I have two pieces, that Steve has seen and the exterior
is so different, that I wonder about the authenticity of one of them.  Do
they vary a lot?
Is it possible that there are fake Putoranos.  How would one know?

Thanks,

Mike Fowler

Subject: [meteorite-list] putorano

Hi list. Does anyone have any PUTURANO forsale?I am looking for a 100 to
200 gram piece. Who has any? Let me know.
Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!

I do. Much of it.
matt Morgan


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Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Spade Versus Estacado

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,

Matt makes a very good point here.  Looking at a map of the meteorites 
found in Texas, particularly the Lubbock Super Cluster, you don't need a 
very active imagination to figure that there are probably lots of meteorite 
pairings there.  Most of those meteorites were classified several decades 
ago when the process wasn't nearly as detailed as it is now.  Figure in the 
lack of a system of checks and balances and a detailed system of records 
that we now have available on the Internet and you might find there are a 
lot of Texas meteorites that really are paired.  The shock differences 
between Spade and Estacado might prove to be definitive enough to preclude 
pair. Time will tell.  Both of these "common chondrites" are actually quite 
uncommon so I'm sure someone will do the necessary work to find out if 
these two are unique or are really twins separated at birth.

110F in Phoenix today,

John





At 01:38 PM 9/3/03 -0600, Matt Morgan wrote:
From what I have seen, the shock characteristics are much different 
between Spade and Estacado. Remember that area of  Texas is literally 
LOADED with meteorites. So there could be MANY pairings.
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com

Tom aka James Knudson wrote:

Hi list, Ryan wrote,
" It would have to be a very large strewn field considering the fact that
Spade is approx. 35 miles to the northwest of Estacado."
Then Howard wrote;
"It is not too outragous to think once in a while that a piece of a 
incoming meteorite will skip like a stone and fall a little further out 
of place than your standerd buckshot distribution model would allow."

From what I understand,  A meteorite is named after the closest post 
office. If Spade is a town, and the meteorite was found 15 miles out of 
town and The Estacado meteorite was found 15 miles out of town, that 
could make a strewn field of 5 miles, not at all uncommon.
Thanks, Tom
Peregrineflier <><
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168

- Original Message -
From: Howard Wu 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Spade Versus Estacado
It is not too outragous to think once in a while that a piece of a
incoming meteorite will skip like a stone and fall a little
further out of place than your standerd buckshot distribution
model would allow.
Howard Wu

Tom aka James Knudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
I would guess if the two are only 35 miles apart that they are
the same
meteorite. I think it is time to hunt between the two!!!
Thanks, Tom
Peregrineflier <><
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
- Original Message -
From: RYAN PAWELSKI
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 2:10 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: Spade Versus Estacado
> It would have to be a very large strewn field considering
the fact that
Spade is approx. 35 miles to the northwest of Estacado.
>
> -Ryan
>
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Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE
Yahoo! Messenger

--
===
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, Colorado 80215 USA
FAX: 303-763-6917


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Re: [meteorite-list] Contacting E-Bay

[John Gwilliam]

Francis and List,
As far as anyone can tell, there are no real people at Ebay, only 
e-people...;-).  Seriously, I've never talked to anyone that has talked to 
a warm body at Ebay.  Several years ago, I tried for a week to find a phone 
number for them and was unsuccessful.

Best,

John

At 07:02 AM 9/3/03 -0700, Francis Graham wrote:
Dear List,
  I noticed many of you are in contact with E-bay
about fraudulent meteorites.
  How do you contact E-bay directly? Do they have a
real phone and physical postal address?  I tried
contacting them by e-mail about a security problem ,
but never could get a real person (as opposed to an
autobot) response. I just would like to pick of the
phone and discuss my very real security problem.
It's in their best interest, too. I could also write a
postal letter, if I knew their address, since
certified mail usually gets a read.
Francis Graham

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[meteorite-list] "I found a meteorite and..."

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,
I just returned from a meeting with a young lady who claimed she had found 
a meteorite and wanted to know how to go about selling it.  Any of you that 
have had contacts similar to this know that the prudent thing to do is ask 
a bunch of questions before committing to any investment in travel 
time.  She answered all of my questions and since she was local, I decided 
to go ahead and meet with her.

Arriving at our agreed meeting place, I was greeted by an attractive young 
woman who thanked me for taking the time to meet with her. She reached into 
her purse and pulled our her "meteorite."

John Gwilliam - 0
Prospective Meteorite Finders - 52
My heart did it's usual sinking technique that it's so familiar with by 
now.  This was the 52nd person I've met with only to find that their 
"meteorite" was furnace slag, basalt or an old iron milling ball.  But, 
having read Michael Blood's "New Blood" idea earlier in the morning, I 
decided to spend some time with this young gal and plant a few "meteorite 
seeds" with hope that they might grow into something.

I showed here some real meteorites, gave her the URLs of some good websites 
to visit, and convinced her she ought to visit the Tucson Show next 
February.  After talking for a few minutes more, I saw that the initial 
disappointment in her eyes was replaced with new found curiosity and 
excitement.  I'm quite sure she will show up at the Inn Suites come next 
February.

best,

John Gwilliam

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Re: [meteorite-list] [Fwd: Apparent Meteorite Lands In Elma High School Lot]

[John Gwilliam]

I'd guess that if anyone is working on this "new meteorite" they're not 
going to show their hole card by going public with their plans. Just think 
how nice it might be to work a new strewn field without it becoming a 
circus like Park Forest.

Best,

John

At 06:27 PM 7/16/03 -0700, Rob Wesel wrote:
Are the Hupes in on this, Elma is their backyard? For that matter it's my
backyard too but I'm not very enthusiastic about the story.
--
Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




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Re: [meteorite-list] MARS near MOON tonight!

[John Gwilliam]

Let's all hope (and pray...for those so inclined) that they do not bump 
into each other...;-)

John

At 11:26 AM 7/16/03 +0100, Ken O'Neill wrote:
MARS near MOON tonight!
Tonight Wednesday July 16th is the night that brilliant
Mars (mag. -2) will rise v.close to the nearly Full Moon. It should be a
spectacular sight to the naked eye. Look over in the East-to-Southeast
(constellation of Aquarius )just about 22:30 onwards as the pair rise above
the horizon- do not go to bed
without checking out the view which should be an awesome sight. Mars will be
blazing just to the left of the Moon all night. From the southern USA and
parts of South America they will see the Moon pass in front of Mars!
Regards

Ken O'Neill



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[meteorite-list] Holbrook

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,
Any of you that have hunted for meteorites in the Holbrook strewn field 
know how frustrating it can be.  Most people hunt for days without success 
or they find very small stones that are usually in the less than 5 gram range.

Fellow list member, and my good friend, Dave Andrews, lives in Holbrook and 
has spent hundreds of hours hunting for those elusive little black 
stones.  Follow the link below to see a picture of his latest and biggest 
find to date.  Dave told me the exact location where he made this find and 
it's an area that literally gets pounded by meteorite hunters every year.

  

Best,

John

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Re: [meteorite-list] item#2183522064: ## BEAUTIFUL IRON METEORITE 843 GRAMM...

[John Gwilliam]

At 07:11 PM 7/13/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Steve Schoner:

I hated e-bay when it first started, I hated it when
meteorites started to appear there-- and I hate it
now, with or without the new format.
I will not sell meteorites there, even if it means it
is the last place on earth to sell them.

Gregory wrote:

[snip]And ebay (like it or not) may well be responsible for bringing more 
meteorite-consciousness to the public, and thus producing more collectors 
and enthusiasts, than any other single influence since Dr. Nininger.

   Gregory
Gregory and List,

Ebay may well be the major influencing factor for the drop in prices 
(value) of meteorites as well.  The worldwide market created through Ebay 
for meteorites like Sikhote-Alin in turn stimulated the increased level of 
hunting the strewnfield. The glut of these irons soon followed and the 
short term prices plummeted.  Those folks who stashed away quality 
specimens will see higher prices in the future, but the current market is 
dismal and will be for some time. Brahin and Chinga are a couple of others 
that went the same direction because of bulk listings on Ebay and 
world-wide access on the internet.

Most of us have a love/hate relationship with Ebay.  When I first started 
selling items on Ebay (underwater camera equipment) seven or eight years 
ago, it was a seller's market for sure, with used items often selling for 
more than new retail items.  A few years later when I started selling 
meteorites on Ebay, it was still a sellers market.  Ask dealers like Mike 
Farmer about the terrific prices the sellers were getting on common items 
like Canyon Diablo and Gibeon.  Now, the pendulum has swung the other way 
and it's definitely a buyers market.  Prices have dropped so low on most 
meteorites that dealers have a hard time making even a small profit on 
Ebay.  If you're primarily a collector, this is a good thing, but if your a 
seller, it's very frustrating.

Best,

John



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Re: [meteorite-list] Origin of the Moon& God

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,
I was hoping this thread would die quickly and quietly after Geoff's 
post.  However, it seems it (the thread) is determined to hold on to life 
with a death grip and continue to gasp for air one weak breath at a time.

Since it's Friday and the traffic on this list is slow, I'll offer an 
analogy that I think most of you can relate to.  This debate between 
religion and science has been going on for centuries and it makes at least 
one visit to this list every year.  Nothing is ever resolved - no one ever 
wins the argument, because there is no correct answer to this issue.

It's sort of like this.  My wife, who is a business professional,  usually 
comes home from a day of shopping and drags me up to the bedroom to see the 
new clothes she had bought. Invariably, she will put on one of here new 
dresses, and ask, "Honey, does this dress make me look fat?"

No matter which way you answer the question, it's the wrong answer.  Dead 
wrong.  You see, if I say "yes", then I'm deader than a grasshopper in a 
chicken coop.  If I say "no", then the rest of the day is trashed after her 
first question fired back at me..."so, what's that supposed to mean?"

Bottom line is don't answer the question in the first place.  Instead, 
quickly change the subject by saying, "hey...let's go to [insert the name 
of her favorite restaurant here] for dinner and we might have enough time 
afterwards to go buy a few more of those gorgeous dresses."

It's the same with the Creation/Evolution thing.  No one is ever going to 
win over the other person by saying what they think is true, so why waste 
your time trying.  Instead, go do something more productive, like going out 
to dinner.

Have a Good Weekend,

John

At 10:36 AM 7/11/03 -0700, ari machiz wrote:

Hi list.

Stephen Hawking says that the beginning of time does not preclude a 
creator. Still, I don't remember him going on about Jesus Christ being the 
way to heaven, or A. C. Baktividanta Swami Prabhupada being the true 
almighty representative of the lord for mankind.

I wonder if meteorites ever end up being discussed on the Jews for Jesus 
forum.

If God is responsible for meteorites, we'll all know when we die, or if 
there is a suspension of natural law dealing with meteorites. The bottom 
line is that religion boils down to faith, a word that does not enter the 
scientific dictionary.

Let's keep the witnessing to that of meteorites.

If I am out of line, please feel free to reprimand me on or off list.

Ari Machiz
TVBTITU
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!


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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay Sellers list, eBay name change

[John Gwilliam]

List,
About six months ago, I was getting as much spam as I was getting mail from 
this list.  I changed my ISP and started off with a different email address 
and had remarkable results.  For the first three months, I got almost no 
spam.  Then the numbers started increasing.  Maybe the solution is to 
change your email address a couple of times a year. This creates all sorts 
of problems and some of the folks that you only email once a year or so 
might not get the news of your email change.
One thing I did notice with my new email address though was a LOT of emails 
from people with foreign sounding names wanting my help to transfer several 
million dollars out of their failing country into the USA.  I feel quite 
impressed that they picked me because they heard, from a business 
associate, that I was a reputable and trustworthy person...;-)

Best,

John

At 08:28 AM 7/8/03 -0400, magellon wrote:
All,
Thanks to those who replied to me off line.
The problem is greater than I expected and goes beyond the List and
ebay.
I checked with some AOL users who do
not even subscribe to any type of list or ebay and they
have had increasing spam coming directly to their email address starting
about 45 days ago...
Sorry for being OT.
Best,
Ken
> magellon wrote:
>
> Mark,
> I too have been getting a tremendous amount of spam since June.
> How about others?
> Best,
> Ken
>
> http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/magellon/
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite-list--------- PSEUDO DEALERS AND PSEUDO JUDGING

[John Gwilliam]

Adam and List,
I think it all depends on the classification of goods, services or 
materials you sell.  If you are caught in possession of more than a 
"personal use" amount of illegal drugs, you will be given the distinction 
of being a "dealer."  In the eyes of the authorities, it only takes one 
sale to qualify a person as a "drug dealer."  Now, before you all jump to 
the wrong conclusion, I must say that the reason I'm aware of this is not 
because of my involvement with the police and drugs,  but only because I 
have several friends who are prosecuting attorneys.

Have a Safe 4th,

John

At 04:12 PM 7/3/03 -0700, Adam Hupe wrote:
Dear List,

I guess I must be a meteorite dealer and a used car dealer too.  I have sold
over seven of my personal used cars the past few years trying to reduce
overhead and the headaches of both insurance and maintenance.  I do not
think this qualifies me as a used car dealer.  Just a thought.
All the best,

Adam

- Original Message -
From: "Tim Heitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'David Freeman'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'meteorite-list'"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 3:52 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite-list- PSEUDO DEALERS AND PSEUDO
JUDGING
> Hello Dave and List,
>
> A dealer is one who sells.
>
> My wife said to me in 1997 in Feb. at the Tucson show. It looks to me
> like they are all selling meteorite to each other are they all dealers.
>
> My answer was yes.
>
> Dave you must have noticed this too, because you did a cartoon once
> showing just that.
>
> A TRUE DEALER is one who sells, that's it.
>
> Part time or full time, classified, unclassified, long term , short
> term, fair pricing, PRICE FIXING what the market will bear, material
> prepared, material not prepared, its an open market.
>
> Let's not kid ourselves
>
>
>
> Take Care,
> Tim Heitz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
> Freeman
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 1:31 PM
> To: meteorite-list
> Subject: Spam Alert: [meteorite-list] PSEUDO DEALERS AND PSEUDO JUDGING
>
> Dear List;
> A recent post seemed to repeatedly shuffle my quaff.  How do we
> classify a dealer and why?   If a person sells a few meteorites for
> money to buy more meteorites to add to his collection, is that a dealer?
>
>   If a person like myself who sells a kilo or two a year to promote the
> hobby and make a buck (not much more than that) is that a dealer?  Do we
>
> have to make a living, or a substantial part of our income from
> meteorites to be judged a true dealer?  Seems to me that anyone who
> "deals" is a dealer.  Suppose in the old times to some of us, sell three
>
> and get the forth one for free.
> Any comments welcomed.
> Works for me,
> Dave Freeman
> (no big deal)
> WMA sales professional of the year
>
>
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>
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[meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds - A Synopsis

[John Gwilliam]

List,
This thread has made a couple of things very evident to me.  First... 
most  folks on this list pretty much agreed that the person asking for the 
refund was unreasonable and a refund should not be given.  Second, is that 
anyone that claims to be a dealer should be aware that the price 
fluctuations of newly offered meteorites can change, sometimes quickly.

Yesterday, I had a meteorite sale and I'd like to thank all the List 
members that ordered specimens from me.  Over the course of  six hours, I 
replied to over 100 emails requesting more information, pictures 
etc.  Everything went very smooth with one exception.  One 
"dealer/collector" sent an email and asked if one particular specimen was 
still available. I replied that it was . Second email asked if I would wait 
until July for payment and was I interested in any trades?  In the mean 
time, someone else had emailed me and stated that they wanted to buy the 
meteorite in question along with several others.  It was a done deal with a 
Paypal payment in 5 minutes.  When I informed the original 
"dealer/collector" that the specimen was no longer available, he went on a 
tirade about the unjust way that he was being treatedblah blah blah 
blah blah!  The ranting and raving went on for three emails.

Like Gregory said, 98.8% of the people are easy to deal with and they 
understand and accept daily problems and disappointments in stride.

Could this be Steve's unhappy buyer?   Rob's short payer?

Best,

John



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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Dealer Refunds

[John Gwilliam]

Hello Steve, Geoff et al,
Anyone that has been in the meteorite business, whether a buyer or seller, 
knows that a price correction almost always follows the initial offering of 
a new meteorite.  A few days after the Park Forest fall when someone was 
complaining about what they perceived as inflated prices, several list 
members, including myself predicted there would be a reduction in price 
within a month or so.  My prediction was really just preaching to a well 
informed choir - after all, everyone SHOULD know about price changes on a 
new meteorite.  Any dealer (or non-rookie collector) that doesn't have a 
good grip on this concept is going to have a rocky ride through life.

Remember the Christmas season a few years back that some folks just "had to 
have" the "Tickle me Elmo" doll?  They were selling for upwards of 
$500.00.  Six months later they were back at the original retail price of 
about $30.00.

 Thank goodness that the majority of people in this business are easy to 
deal with and are people of integrity. You don't have to be a rocket 
scientist (or a meteorite scientist) to understand this very elementary 
business rule.

Anyone want my $8.00 per gram Brahin?

Best,

John

At 11:41 AM 6/28/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Steve and List:

Excellent question Steve; look at the interesting discussion you started!

I would like to mention something specific to this matter: Steve was 
offering some of the best Park Forest stones available, and probably *the* 
best small, complete individuals. I know this for a fact because I watched 
him find most of them (read all about it in the upcoming issue of "Meteorite").

When there is a limited amount of an exciting new meteorite available -- 
or in this case an exciting, new, unique, American-major-city witnessed 
fall meteorite, with fireball videos, busted cars and houses, and the 
whole works to accompany it, collectors are understandably very keen to 
get some. Those that *must* have a piece, or want to pick from the cream 
of the crop, will buy early and perhaps pay a premium. Those that gamble 
and wait may get a lower price later on eBay, when the initial demand has 
been met (and may be picking from lesser quality specimens as a result), 
or they could discover that there is none left at all. If you buy early on 
to ensure that you get a good specimen, there's no use griping later 
because the price has dropped.

Steve, your customer's request is nothing but sour grapes. He was 
complaining about the price back then, but bought from you anyway. He's 
still complaining about the price, and now hoping to get a hand out. Don't 
even think about it. He's lucky to have those stones -- which you found 
through hard work and skillful strewn field mapping -- and I happen to 
know that the price he paid was very fair. Similar stones have sold 
elsewhere for more.

BTW, by posting your ethics question to the List, you have covered 
yourself in the event that this character does have the poor taste to 
complain about you in public (not that anyone would take him seriously).

Your hunting pal,

Geoff N.

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[meteorite-list] SALE - Assorted Meteorites - UPDATE

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,
Sorry about my previous update without the actual list of specimens.  I 
don't know what happened.

Here is what's left after yesterday.  If you have any interest in picture 
or more information, please contact me off list.  I'll be close to my 
computer through Tuesday with the exception of Sunday 8:00PM thru Monday 
9:00AM.

Best&Thanks,

John Gwilliam

Cat Mountain - L5 imb.  5.3g part slice 450.00
Richfield - LL3.7
4.2g part slice - thin21.00
4.5g part slice - thin22.50
7.9g part slice - natural surface on one side; one polished face  38.00
10.4g part slice - 6mm thick  46.00
30.6g part slice - 6.2mm thick  135.00
LaCriolla - L6  FALL - 17.1g part slice, some fusion crust  130.00
Mbale - L5/6  FALL - 16.6g part slice, crust on 3 of 4 edges  67.00
NWA 1242 MES (fka Sahara 85001)  9.3g part slice110.00
Djati-Pengilon - H6  FALL,  38.5g part slice, abundant fine metal flecks151.00
Homestead - L5  FALL - 6.4g part slice w/ crust on 2 of 4 edges   57.00 
Monze - L6 FALL - the only meteorite from Zambia
15.1g part slice. some crust, fragmented back 30.00
9.4g part end piece. lots of crust19.00
17.0g part slice. crust along uncut edge  33.00
14.5g part slice. ""  "27.00
17.1g fragment. some fusion crust 29.00
Korra Korrabes - H3  42.3g part slice, 7.2mm thick52.00
Galatia - L6,  9.1g part slice, some fusion crust   14.00
Hope Creek - LL6, 10.4g part slice - some fusion crust  73.00
That's it folks, thanks again for looking.

Contact me OFF LIST if you want more info or pictures of any of these 
specimens.

Best Regards,

John Gwilliam



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[meteorite-list] SALE - Assorted Meteorites - UPDATE

[John Gwilliam]

Hello All,
Thanks to all of you that made purchases yesterday.  Several of you have 
requested an updated list of what's available, so here it is.  As I said 
before,  contact me off the list if you'd like more information or pictures 
or any of these specimens.  I'll be close to my computer through next 
Tuesday...possibly longer, but I will be unavailable from 8:00PM Sunday 
night until 9:00AM Monday morning (Arizona time).

Best,
John Gwilliam
 
 **


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Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer Refunds

[John Gwilliam]

Steve and List,
The correct diagnosis for this "return syndrome" is called "buyers 
remorse."  We've all had it at one point in our lives and it can take some 
folks a lot of years to cure themselves of impulse buying.  Some guys take 
a look at their paycheck and start looking around for something to spend it 
on.  Only after they've spent the money do they remember they've got a 
table full of bills to pay.  Poor decision making is NOT a legitimate 
reason to expect a refund.

Does anyone want to buy a bag full of Gold Basins for what I paid for them 
five years ago?  I'd love to get $3.00 per gram for them ugly buggers right 
now.

Live and Learn,

John Gwilliam

At 10:59 PM 6/27/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello List,

I have an ethical question I would like to get some feedback on.

I just got a request from a customer that I give him a refund for a 
specimen he purchased a month or so ago from me that he wants to return 
now.  His request was not based on the fact that the specimen was damaged 
or otherwise in a different condition than described when it was sold to him.

The request he felt was justified because he thinks the specimen is now 
not worth as much as he paid for it bach then.  He seems to think he can 
get the same thing for a lower price elsewhere.  So I assume he wants the 
refund to go buy the other cheaper specimen to replace the one he wants to 
give back to me.

While I do guarantee authenticity and that the specimens are as described 
on all my specimens I sell, I do not have a Walmart style lowest price 
guarantee, that the person cannot find a similar specimen somewhere else 
in the present or in the future for a lower price.  If someone bought 
something and didn't like it for whatever reason and wanted to return it 
promptly for a refund, that would be one thing but this is another.

I find this refund request unreasonable and bordering on unethical.  A 
similar but opposite request would be if I would contact buyers a month 
after I sold them a specimen and demanded that they let me buy back a 
specimen I sold them a month earlier because new information tells me that 
I sold it to them too cheap and that if I had it back at the price I sold 
it, I could turn around and sell it to someone for an even higher 
price.  That request would be absurd.

As I recall, there is just one dealer that offers a written lifetime 
guarantee to buy back any specimens at the customers purchase 
prices.  However, one would expect that having a stated guarantee such as 
that would help such a dealer to generate more than enough extra sales to 
cover the losses when a meteorite genuinely drops in value and a few 
people decide to take that dealer up on his offer.  But without offering 
that incentive to make all the extra sales along the way, a dealer could 
go bankrupt giving refunds on demand for price fluctuation reasons.

I guess my question is, how would some of the other dealers respond to 
such a request?  Has anyone had such a request nade if them?  And for 
collectors out there, do you feel making such a request (and expecting it 
to be fulfilled) is reasonable?  Would a direct purchase be different from 
an ebay purchase?

Steve Arnold


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[meteorite-list] SALE - Assorted Meteorites

[John Gwilliam]

Hello All,
I don't post a sale to the list very often, but here are some odds and ends 
I'm clearing out of my collection and inventory.  Contact me off the list 
if you'd like more information or pictures or any of these specimens.  I'll 
be close to my computer through next Tuesday...possibly longer, but I will 
be unavailable from 8:00PM Sunday night until 9:00AM Monday morning 
(Arizona time).

Best,
John Gwilliam
 
**

Cat Mountain - L5 imb.  5.3g part slice	450.00
Ourique - H4 brec.  FALL  17.45g part slice - this specimens shows two 
sections of the lighter lithology.	122.00
Potter - L6 brec.  32.8g part slice.  from the King Collection		  59.00
Nadiabondi - H5  FALL.  11.8g ind.  99% crusted			  47.00

Richfield - LL3.7
4.2g part slice - thin21.00
4.5g part slice - thin22.50
7.9g part slice - natural surface on one side; one polished face  38.00
10.4g part slice - 6mm thick  46.00
30.6g part slice - 6.2mm thick  135.00
Wickenburg - L6  43.7g part slice - no crust, metal rimmed vug. 150.00
LaCriolla - L6  FALL - 17.1g part slice, some fusion crust  130.00
Mbale - L5/6  FALL - 16.6g part slice, crust on 3 of 4 edges  67.00
Gail - H4  28.5g part slice - fusion crust on 2 edges 56.00
Cape York - IRON IIIAB - 89.8g part slice, riker mount + first day cover270.00
NWA 1242 MES (fka Sahara 85001)  9.3g part slice110.00
Djati-Pengilon - H6  FALL,  38.5g part slice, abundant fine metal flecks151.00
Leighlibridge - L6  Irish FALL - 0.9g part slice w/ fusion crust340.00
Homestead - L5  FALL - 6.4g part slice w/ crust on 2 of 4 edges   57.00 
Gibeon - IRON  IVA - 444g full slice, highly sculptured edge225.00
Monze - L6 FALL - the only meteorite from Zambia
15.1g part slice. some crust, fragmented back 30.00
9.4g part end piece. lots of crust19.00
17.0g part slice. crust along uncut edge  33.00
13.4g part slice. ""  "25.20
14.5g part slice. ""  "27.00
17.1g fragment. some fusion crust 29.00
50.7g fragment. lots of fusion crust and one polished face81.00
Renfrow - L6  14.3g part slice21.50
Cleo Springs - H4  37.1g part slice, crust along one edge. Polished
faces show 50% shock veins, the other half contains bright
metal flecks.  Unique specimen  111.00
Korra Korrabes - H3  42.3g part slice, 7.2mm thick52.00
Galatia - L6
9.1g part slice, some fusion crust  14.00
19.0g part slice " "  "  20.00
NWA544 - L3.8 light and dark martix full of chondrules.
15.0g part slice with black crust on part of edge.  30.00
19.2g  "   "  "  "  "  38.00
Chinga - ATAX  50.6g full slice - both faces mirror polished35.00
Tsarev - L5,  49.6g part slice, beautiful brecciation, some fusion crust50.00
Hope Creek - LL6, 10.4g part slice - some fusion crust  73.00
And last of all...Putorana.  It isn't a meteorite, but is a great MESO
"look-alike"  2332g half piece with polished face.340.00
That's it folks, thanks for looking.

Contact me OFF LIST if you want more info or pictures of any of these 
specimens.

Best Regards,

John Gwilliam





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Re: [meteorite-list] Wild Fire in Tucson

[John Gwilliam]

If you put three or four fish in a ten gallon aquarium, they will survive 
quite well without experiencing too many problems.  Add three or four more 
fish to that same ten gallons of water and all sorts of problems like high 
nitrate levels and algae soon follow.  Pretty soon, the water is so 
polluted that the fish start dying off.

The many problems our planet is now experiencing is based on the same 
principle.  Quite simply, there are too many people living in a limited 
amount of space.  Over population causes disease, pollution, famine and 
reduces the quality of life for everyone and every thing that lives on Earth.

It has been predicted that the Phoenix metro area will double in size by 
the year 2017.  Land development eats up thousands of acres of farmland 
every year.  Those acres that now contain concrete, buildings and freeways 
used to grow plants that produce oxygen.  Yes, Phoenix will grow and some 
of the planners and developers will grow rich in the process. All this will 
be done with the same amount of water that we now have available.  The over 
development problems in Southern California should have taught us all 
something important, but it seems no one is paying attention.

So, what is the answer to the problem?  Less people and less developement.

Sorry about the soap box performance,

John

At 08:39 PM 6/20/03 -0700, Mark Miconi wrote:
Actually Steve we are in a cycle. I just watched a show on Cox Channel 9 and
this drought is just one of many that occur in cycles. Arizona has seen much
worse droughts in the past. We are currently 60% through this cycle.
Our wildfire problem is due to very poor forest management by humans who
have traditionally tried to stop wildfires. Our forests have been saved from
small fires for so long that they are no clogged with fuel that would have
normally been cleaned up by small fires. Our tree density is way past what
it should be for healthy forests.
Global warming remains an issue for the Earth as a wholebut it has very
little to do with what is happening here in Arizona. If you review the
climate data for Arizona and this region of the US you will see a cyclic
pattern that has existed since before the industrial waste was a problem.
The west has had droughts thoughout time, just ask the native
americans...the Anazazi probably suffered through many and finally succumb
to an extended drought.
The really pressing issue in this state is our water conservation. Arizona
is the leading producer of Cotton in the USthat is stupid, cotton is one
of the highest water consuming plants there is to produce any profit per
acre. We have more golf courses in this state than most any state in the
country, why? There are 68 more golf courses that have been approved to be
built in Arizonaseems like alot of wasted water to me and I can not
remember a single program involving a Golf Course that sends money into any
community programs.
People stand in the driveways every weekend using water to wash their
concrete drivewaythat makes them stupid. Buy a freaking broom.
Lake Powell is at 55% of capacity and it will be fifteen rainy years to
refill it, Roosevelt Lake is at 33%,  Arizona has already received their
allotment of the Colorado river water this year and the other states are
threatening lawsuits if we ask for more.
What is needed to stop the wildfires is proper forest management, clean up
the undergrowth, let fire work like it is supposed to as nature intended.
Choked up forests like ours will never be healthy until they are burned to a
crisp, then nature will take over and they will stay healthy until someone
else interferes. Yellowstone is a classic example, since that fire the
forest is back on track and they have not had another as bad since.
It is too easy to blame our weather on Global warming. I believe that global
warming is already beyond fixing and is a far more serious problem than
anybody realizes, I just do not think we have begun to feel any of the real
effects of the problem yet. I also think when the effects come that changes
in our weather patterns will be the least of our worries, I believe that a
complete crash will occur in the earths climate, possibly wiping out 90% of
life. Then and only then will anyone listen.
Thanks,

Mark M.
Phoenix AZ
- Original Message -
From: Steve Schoner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: ari machiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wild Fire in Tucson
> Global Warming does not exist... That is what the some
> of the Bushites say.
>
> But I think the pattern is clear.  Greater global
> temps mean drastic changes in weather, and we have had
> some very strange dry weather here in Arizona over the
> years.
>
> Had a tornado at Winslow the other day, and that is a
> very rare event here in the high country.
>
> Gee... too bad it was not headed for "Meteor Crater"
> visitor center...
>
> he he h.
>
> (N

Re: [meteorite-list] King tut?

[John Gwilliam]

Hello Tom and List,
Knowing that Tom lives in Kingman, Arizona, which is just a stones throw 
from Gold Basin (GB), I believe he is inquiring about the stone meteorite 
"King Tut" found by John Blennert in 1997.

The protocol for classifying and acceptance of a new meteorite includes a 
thorough check of all known meteorites in the general area (I believe 
within a 25 mile radius) to make certain it does not pair with any 
meteorite that is already "in the books."

For those of you that would like to see a picture of the King Tut, go to 
the following link and scroll to the bottom of the page.

<http://www.meteoriteimpact.com/newfinds.htm>

Best,

John Gwilliam

At 07:21 PM 6/9/03 -0700, Tom aka James Knudson wrote:
Hello again list, Is the King tut meteorite just a GB by a different name,
or is it a different meteorite?
Thanks, Tom
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168


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Re: [meteorite-list] nevada/honolulu

[John Gwilliam]

At 08:48 PM 6/5/03 -0700, Dave Andrews wrote:

I am willing to part with my .562 gram slice of honolulu


OK, who had "June 5" in the pool?;-)   ;-)

   Gregory
Darn!  I missed it by one day.  Is there some kind of conversion for GMT 
or UT?  And to think I have a slice of Devil's Peak too (which I'm not 
parting with).  Quite the shame.

Bummed,
Dave
Dear Dave,
Would you consider trading your Devil Peak for my Beer Bottle Pass?
Fingers Crossed,

John




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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: nevada/honolulu

[John Gwilliam]

At 11:04 PM 6/5/03 -0500, almitt wrote:
Hi all,

I think the list is for EVERYBODY but some people just like to abuse the 
true format
like putting up chronic for sale messages. List members tend to police the 
list so it
doesn't get too unbearable. Steve from Chicago has been asked nice, been 
asked not so
nice, been asked rude, been asked very rude and put on who knows how many 
spam filters
so he has had to change email addresses so he can get through again. I 
think John's
comments were just as exceptable as anyone posting to the list.

Ryan and all those who don't like it when some of us are policing the list 
(I think
you called it whining), why don't you use the delete key??? John's 
comments are a
whole lot less a bother than a couple of guys trying to sell their wares 
all the time.

--AL Mitterling

Dear List,
What Al said.
John Gwilliam



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Re: [meteorite-list] paint-fused stone, and...."Live from P.F. It's Sat Night!"

[John Gwilliam]

Gregory,
Thanks for sending a picture of your newest acquisition, it is really 
something.  Is it my imagination, or do I see at least 4 different layers 
of paint attached to your stone?  What a specimen!

Congrats,

JQ

At 10:42 AM 4/6/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

For those who might have some skepticism about all the Park Forest 
excitement, check out this pic!   At 11:53p the night of March 26, a stone 
crashed through the roof of Noe Garza's home, split into (at least) two 
pieces, broke the ceiling joists, came through the ceiling of his son's 
bedroom, careened off the windowsill (about 18-24 inches from the sleeping 
boy's head!), and ricocheted off a mirrored (not any more) closet.   Rob 
Elliott obtained several pieces (some 400 grams-worth) of this material, 
which is quickly becoming known as the "Garza Stone".   I was able to 
obtain a 33 gram fragment, please take a look, I beg of you!   The boy's 
windowsill was metal, painted a white-silvery color, and this paint has 
become literally fused to the surface of this fragment.

http://members.aol.com/sharkkb8/garzapainted2.jpg

Last night, if the Applebee's in Matteson, Illinois had blown up, the 
meteorite business would have have been as decimated as the Iraqi 
Republican Guard.  Bob Haag, Rob Elliott, Steve Witt, Al Lang, Greg Hupe, 
Mike Farmer, Steve Arnold (IMB) Geoff Notkin, Marvin Killgore, Roman 
Jirasek and wife, Jim Schwade and I (I'm sure I'm leaving someone out, and 
I apologize!) all held court until the wee hours, eventually closing the 
place.   Even the waitresses were learning about meteorites, as everyone 
took pictures and shared their finds, buys and stories.  It was a 
hoot!   Some of the Park Forest hype may seem like overkill, and some of 
it probably is, but it's quite an experience to actually be here and see 
it unfold!

Gregory


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Re: [meteorite-list] Park Forest image

[John Gwilliam]

Mike, Adam and List,
The spots Mike is referring to don't look like rust spots to me.  After 
photographing meteorites for several years, my guess is that they are 
bright iron/nickel particles reflecting either skin tone color or something 
else, like a shirt, close by that is a warm orange brown.

Cut a round hole in a large piece of white poster board just large enough 
for the camera lens to fit through, and shoot the specimen in identical 
lighting. The colored spots will reflect their true silver/white color in 
the new image.

John



John Gwilliam

At 07:31 PM 4/3/03 -0700, Michael Farmer wrote:
Adam, why does your piece have rust spots all over the cut face if you cut 
in alcohol?
Mike Farmer
- Original Message -
From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Adam Hupe
To: 
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
l.com
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 6:17 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Park Forest image

Dear List Members,

After cutting up several specimens of this new fall it appears it may 
have too much metal to be classified as an LL although the Fa number 
appears to fall into the LL range.  Here is a picture below showing a 
polymict breccia texture.

<http://www.lunarrock.com/ParkForest/parkforest1.jpg>http://www.lunarrock. 
com/ParkForest/parkforest1.jpg

Mark mentioned finding glass globules attached to the crust of his 
fragment.  After hearing this we examined over two dozen specimens and 
found the same thing on about half of them.  I did not observe dumbbell 
or patty shapes on any of them.  We are curious if anybody may have found 
these shapes.  We are receiving a final shipment from Park Forest 
tomorrow and will be able to figure out a very decent price if anybody is 
interested.  We will also put up several expertly prepared slices for 
consideration at this yet to be determined low price, less than what 
people are paying in the field now!

All the best,

Adam Hupe




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Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley and Park Forest

[John Gwilliam]

Matteo,
Are you just now figuring out that there are several factors that affect 
the value of anything that is collectable?  Lots of factors have negatively 
affected the prices of meteorites over the past few years.  In contrast, 
some people will say that the net effect was a GOOD one because it made 
rarer material available to the common man who collects meteorites.

What I really hear in your posts sounds like sour grapes.  High prices must 
be okay to you if you are currently in a selling mode, yet you complain 
about the prices being too high when you decide to buy.  This is a pretty 
common practice used and desired by businessmen (and women) - buy low, sell 
high.  The skillful dealers in this business know when it's the right time 
to buy AND sell.

That's the way the market goes.  Learn to live with it.

John Gwilliam

At 12:42 AM 4/3/03 -0800, M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
I have write the portales when is exit in the market
the price it was to $35-40 grams, and for me is ok for
a special meteorite type Portales Valley - find
another similar meteorite - but after few years the
price is go to $12/gr. when the main mass is go cut.
The same is for Park Forest, now people sale for
prices over $40/gr., but at few years the price for
sure go to under 10/gr., and Park Forest, for the
moment, is a ordinary chondrite. What change from
Portales and Park? All 2 have hit houses, all 2 is a
witness fall, but the first is a very fantastic
ordinary chondrite, the second is a normaly chondrite.
You now put a portales valley for sale for $35/gr. no
persons buy this, the same is for Park Forest, now all
want a piece and pay high ammount of money, but at few
years the price change, specially if someone ruin the
prices of market like already was done with the
lunars, martian and varied historical meteorites, make
losing money to who had invested grosses adds.
Regards
Matteo

--- Dave Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
>
> >I remember when is exit the first Portales
> >pieces$35-40/gr. now is go to $12.5/gr. but
> this
> >is a very special meteorite, and have hit houses
> and
> >fall over a citythe same of Park Forestand
> the
> >total mass of Portales is many low.
> >
> >
> I don't understand why you are complaining.  You are
> a "dealer", and you
> stated that you just bought PF for a low price, yet
> you want too object
> to the high price it's retailing for?  (much more
> than you supposedly
> paid).   I can't even begin to understand your
> logic.
>
=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Re: [meteorite-list] 70 gram park forest

[John Gwilliam]

Matteo and List,

The initial offering of Besour was $15.00/g.,  go back and check the List 
archives.  A dealer made this original offer before the Hupes announced the 
classification.  After that, there were certain events that led to downward 
price adjustments.  However, I believe that there were some eager souls who 
paid $12 to $15 per gram for the first pieces of Bensour.

John Gwilliam

At 10:46 PM 4/2/03 -0800, M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote:
Ok, but Bensour is a very nice witness fall of few
months ago and take immediatly after the fall - many
USA persons is go in Morocco to buy immediatly - but
why the max price of a Bensour is a $5/gr.? In Morocco
the prices of hotels, travel etc.they do not
exist? Bensour is the same a low TKW, nice fresh
crust, nice matrix etcwhy only $5/gr.?
Regards
Matteo

--- Dave Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Tom aka James Knudson wrote:
>
> >In two hours a 70 g park forest on ebay is going to
> end. It is already up to
> >$916, What a joke for a what LL?
> >Thanks, Tom
> >
> >
> Tom,
> I really don't think that price is really that
> outrageous.  It went
> through roofs of houses, smashed the furniture,
> computers and interior
> components, cars, no telling what else, etc...and
> most importantly, it
> was a witnessed fall.  No one seems to complain when
> they
> spend$15-$20-$25/gram for a Holbrook.  (The only
> witnessed fall in
> AZ---BTW).  But the Holbrook really didn't hit
> anything other than a few
> jackrabbits and cabelleros on horseback. ;-)
> (Greggy) It's a historical
> fall just like Forest Park...only difference is that
> it happened just a
> few days ago.  FRESH
>
> Not meaning to irritate,
> Dave
>
>
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>
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=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Re: [meteorite-list] 70 gram park forest

[John Gwilliam]

It might be an LL, and it is quite possible that one of the lithologies is 
a melt.  Add to that some black shock veins and I'd say that $13.10/g is 
quite reasonable, especially for someone who's going to be the first kid on 
his block to own some Park Forest.

John

At 07:16 PM 4/2/03 -0700, Tom aka James Knudson wrote:
In two hours a 70 g park forest on ebay is going to end. It is already up to
$916, What a joke for a what LL?
Thanks, Tom
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168


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Re: [meteorite-list] home address

[John Gwilliam]

Do we have to send ALL of our money or just the asking price of the specimen?

Inquiring mind,

John

At 09:22 AM 3/30/03 -0800, Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote:
To all the people who want to buy these micro's from me, please send all
your money to my home address.Steve Arnold
105 Deer  Run Ln.
   elgin, illinois  60120
Please remember for future reference.
steve


=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728
Illinois Meteorites
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Re: [meteorite-list] Park Forest, most expensive fall in US History

[John Gwilliam]

At 07:24 PM 3/29/03 -0700, Michael Farmer wrote:

...she looked down and saw the stone and immediately picked it up. She 
said it
was slightly warm. You don't get much closer than sitting 2 feet from where
it lands so I indeed know that the stone was warm.


Well, this will certainly get the debate started again.  All in favor of 
"warm" meteorites raise your hand.

John



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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: LETS GO SELLING MICRO'S

[John Gwilliam]

At 08:55 PM 3/29/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mike posted:

>I have photos of BOTH Steve Arnolds crawling around on there hands and knees
>in the middle of Winslow St.
Dear Mike:

We definitely need to see those pictures.

: )

geoff N.


I agree with Geoff.

 In fact, I'd pay good money for a quality 8x10 print of Steve & Steve 
crawling in the street.

John Gwilliam



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Re: Fwd: [meteorite-list] Park Forest fall

[John Gwilliam]

May I suggest that someone become the designated party to collect money for 
a piece of this fall for Art.  I would be glad to donate $20.00 or so for 
such a worthy cause.  With Mike Farmer busy working the fall, it doesn't 
seem appropriate for him to be given the added burden.

Any volunteers?  Let me know and I'll send $$.

John

At 12:28 AM 3/30/03 +0100, Bernd Pauli HD wrote:
Michael Farmer wrote:

> ill be home in a couple days, I will have some for
> sale, price unknown but quite  e x p e n s i v e .
Time for me to repeat my suggestion however
dearly I would like to own a piece myself.
If US$1.00 is not enough for Art's "little"
birthday present, let's raise the amount we
would be willing to "donate" - say something
between two and five dollars!
Bernd

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Re: [meteorite-list] PS. I found a piece!

[John Gwilliam]

COW SMASHER  This is a new development!  It didn't happen to belong to 
an old gal by the name of O'Leary, did it?

You guys out in the field must all be having a blast.  I hope you all come 
home with a bag full.

Joh

At 07:38 AM 3/29/03 -0700, Michael Farmer wrote:
I am thrilled you did, the early bird gets the worm as they say. Hey by the
way, I am not done yet, ill be hunting the forest all day today. I want the
main mass, the cow smasher.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message -
From: "Steve Witt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] PS. I found a piece!
> Oh my god! I can finally one up Mike Farmer. Hey buddy i found about
> 50 or more of those. Now if I could just catch up with you on total
> weight purchased...
>
> Steve
>
>
> --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > By the way, I found a very small fragment near the street where one
> > impacted and shattered. It weighes less than a  gram but I am
> > thrilled to have found it.
> > Mike Farmer
> >
>
>
> =
> Steve Witt
> IMCA #9020
>
> http://www.meteoritecollectors.org
>
> __
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>
>


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Re: Fwd: [meteorite-list] Park Forest fall

[John Gwilliam]

My guess is that when the finders show up at the museum, they will probably 
be told that it's their "duty" as citizens to donate the meteorites or sell 
them at a low price.  Believe me, there isn't a museum or a research 
institute out there that will pay $15/g for this material when there is 
possibly a lot more of it to be found.

Within a few weeks, the market for this new fall will drop to a reasonable 
point .  Then all those greedy people who held out for BIG bucks will wish 
they had sold it to the dealers and collectors in the first place.  Watch 
Ebay.  Within the next few days, several pieces will show up with 
outrageous prices but few, if any, will sell. Those price will adjust too. 
By Easter time there will be a lot of this stone available at a reasonable 
price.  Unless, of course, someone finds signs of life from outer space in 
it...like a winged ant or something ;-)

Just my opinion,

John Gwilliam

At 08:49 AM 3/29/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Mike and List,
Because the news media reported that the going price is $500.00 and ounce, it
makes me wonder what the Field Museum is willing to shell out for specimans.
Or are people just going to be browbeated for their finds? Seems that the
Field Museum will be the recipient of a two-edged sword.
First they tell everyone to donate to the Museum / Universities. Then the
media heats the fire with the $500.00 an ounce curse.
Let me see if I have this right: Media reports $500 an ounce-Field Museum
doesn't have those kind of funds (for dinosaur Sue yes), but tells everyone
to come Saturday for their big payday.hm. This should be interesting.
Steve Sachs (also from Chicago area) IMCA#  9210

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Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 23:31:32 -0700
I am also saddened, the people here mostly still have their stones, they 
think they hit the lotto and made millions. I have offered $5000 for 
several stones today in the 1 kilo range and been laughed at and nearly 
booted out. They think that is an insult and freaked out. This is what I 
am saying, there is no sense of reality now, they all think they are 
millionaires. I expect there will be a few hundred grams for sale by us 
dealers, not much more. I mean, who can buy it here and make any money? I 
hope some change their minds so that we can provide for those who did not 
make it here.
I love meteorites, and love the chase, and this one could be so cool but 
it is already too stressful. Ask Steve Witt. The man filed a complaint 
saying Steve

Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor Chunks Crash In South Suburb - illinois

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,
After doing some additional research and making a few phone calls, it 
appears that BIG STEVE is not only correct, but is credited for breaking 
the news to our List.

I know that several of our dauntless meteorite hunters are either on 
location or in route.

This hunt will be very different than most of the chased falls in the past 
several years where the site was anything from semi-rural to outright remote.

 Imagine...urban meteorite hunting.

 At least when the dealers/hunters start laying down large sums of 
greenbacks in bars, fastfood restaurants, and parking lots, the locals 
won't be too suspicious.  However, there may be more danger in South 
Chicago than in Africa;-)

John Gwilliam

At 02:20 PM 3/27/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you watch the entire video feed, as the reporter rolls it around in her 
hands, it CERTAINLY seems to be partially crusted, and even may show some 
regmaglypt-type formations.

We may have an actual "hammer" in Chicago!


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Re: [meteorite-list] Measuring Density - Alcohol Use

[John Gwilliam]

Hello All,
Sorry if some of you think my reply is off topic, but I thought it might be 
of interest to some of you.

Colin's post was made in jest, and I found it humorous, however, there may 
be some individuals on this list that might get the idea that the ethyl 
alcohol we soak our meteorites in is the same as the stuff we drink thus 
considering their soaking solution to be a dual purpose liquid.

 Not so.

Several years ago, I was talking with my chemical supplier, Eric, about 
alcohol and using it to displace water from meteorite specimens.  He 
recommended that I change to isopropanol for several reasons.  First, 
isopropanol evaporates faster than ethanol (ethyl alcohol).  Even though it 
evaporates quicker out of your soaking container, which should always be 
covered, it also evaporates faster when it comes in contact with your skin 
thus lessening the chance of absorption.  In addition,  isopropanol is less 
hazardous to your health than ethanol.

Technical grade ethanol is only 99% pure.  This is due to a regulation that 
requires an additive be included in ethyl alcohol to prevent it from being 
drank.  This 1% additive can be methanol, aviation gas, jet fuel, or an of 
a number of different compounds.  If you drink 99% tech grade ethanol, you 
WILL become violently ill.

One final thing.  I have noticed that when ethanol evaporates completely 
from a soaking container, there is a bit of sticky residue left 
behind.  This is not the case with isopropanol.

Anyone have any additional or conflicting information...or opinions?

Best,

John Gwilliam



At 07:21 PM 3/25/03 +0300, colin wade wrote:
Hi folks
If I may suggest a more meteorite friendly determination
substitute the water for ethyl alcohol , with a correction of.0.88? 
for the water density

the fluid must be carfully & ecollogically disposed by dilution 10 - 14- 1 
with carbonated water with a trace of quinnineand prepared for the 
disposal by passing through the human kidney.
the determination may need repeating several times to reduce experimental 
error  but no meteorites will be harmed during the process
the murchisons & tagish may end up a tad less organic & the determinator 
may lose a little spatial resolution
may even catch on
;-)

searches are off at the mo deserts even more hostile
god bless & all the best
col
- Original Message -
From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Howard Wu
To: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>meteorite-list
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 6:48 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Measuring Density
 Unfortunately the normal way to measure density( specific gravity) is 
to weight the stone UNDER WATER.  This is compared to the weight in air. 
This give the displacement with water having a density of 1gm/cc.

Howard Wu



<http://uk.yahoo.com/mail/tagline_xtra/?http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail_stor 
age.html>With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Iron cutting problems :))

[John Gwilliam]

It sounds to me like the arbor you have the blade mounted to is not 
perfectly (90 degrees) perpendicular to the feed direction of your saw vice 
with the meteorite mounted in it.  This skewed alignment will cause the 
type of wear you're talking about.  Make sure you're using a coolant oil 
designed for diamonds saws...like Almag or the equivalent.

You don't mention the diameter of your blade, but judging by the thickness 
you have mentioned, it sounds like you're using a 10 inch or smaller 
blade.  I have used a 20 inch diamond saw with a 0.065 inch thick blade to 
slice lots of iron meteorites, including Chinga, which is very hard.  Using 
a small diameter blade on a big meteorite produces a lot of heat which is 
one of the biggest enemies of diamond blades.

Your blade is a bit on the thin side as well.  A 0.5mm blade is only 0.020 
inches. This allows the blade to flex during cutting especially if you put 
too much feed pressure or weight on it.  Choose blade 0.050 (1.25mm) or 
thicker and don't over pressure the feed rate.  Your blade RPMs can also be 
a source of problems.  Run the blade too slow, and I guarantee it will 
follow a path that isn't straight.

Campos are very inexpensive compared to diamond blades, you can afford to 
loose a little more material in the cutting process. Use a bigger, thicker 
blade.

Best,

John Gwilliam

At 10:47 AM 3/22/03 +0100, PolandMET.com wrote:
Hello all
I want to ask You how You cut nantan or any other iron meteorite ?
Besouse yesterday I received my 5kg nantan and start to cut it on one end
(small slice around 7x4cm) and I destroy 2 diamond blades 0.5mm. This was
verry strange, becouse diamonds from one half of this blades was weared out
and from another not. Now I have this blades with diamonds for example 4mm
on one side and 5mm on another (in diameter).
This can be any troilite inclusion or what ? Blade was cut this nantan up to
1.5cm inside and then stop cutting and start waste blade.
Anyone know what happend ? This was my first iron cutting on my machine.
Thanks for help
-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-
http://www.meteoryt.net   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.polandmet.com  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vistapro.prv.pl   +GSM (607) 535 195
[ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ]


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Re: [meteorite-list] chondrite with IM Breccia!

[John Gwilliam]

Randy and List et al,
I had a very satisfying experience this morning when checking my email... 
no mail from the regular "spammers" that misuse this List.  This didn't 
happen by itself.  I took about five (5) minutes of my time two days ago 
and instructed my Eudora Pro email program to filter out the trash from 
specific senders.  Just to make sure it was working properly, I opened my 
"Trash" folder and there I found ALL the unopened emails, right where they 
belong.

Have a great weekend,

John Gwilliam

At 06:43 AM 3/14/03 -0800, Randy Mils wrote:

I think the best way to combat all this spam of ROCKS is to ignore it 
completely.  From this day forward, I propose that no one on this list 
respond to these posts.  Maybe if we ignore the posts, they will 
eventually stop.

Randy

>From: "M Yousef"
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [meteorite-list] chondrite with IM Breccia!
>Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 07:13:10 +
>
>Dear Alll;
>Here is a very nice rock showing at the same time nice chonrules
>together with IM breccia.
>http://alifyaa.com/meteorite/cbr/index.html
>
>
>the IM breccia is similar to this rock:
>http://alifyaa.com/meteorite/br/index.html
>and the chondrite is like that you have seen in the previous two
>posts:
>http://alifyaa.com/meteorite/cnd/index.html
>http://alifyaa.com/meteorite/cnd2/index.html
>
>
>
>Best Wishes
>
>Mohamed H. Yousef
>--
>
>_
>Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
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[meteorite-list] AD: "The Tucson Show 2003" Video - On Sale Now.

[John Gwilliam]

Good Morning All,
Bob and I are announcing that our video shot at the Tucson Show this past 
month is now ready for sale and shipping.  It is available on both VHS tape 
(NTSC format) and CD-ROM.  Half or our initial production run has already 
been sold, so if you want a copy, order it soon.

We have had several requests from some of the European members of this List 
for PAL versions of the video.  If there is enough interest in this format 
we will go ahead and make a limited production run in PAL.  Let us know if 
you would like a copy.

More information about this video and how to order it can be found at the 
following webpage.

<http://www.meteoriteimpact.com/Tuc2003.htm>

Best Regards,

John Gwilliam & Bob Holmes

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Re: [meteorite-list] Tatahouine - Pronunciation

[John Gwilliam]

Rob and List,
I believe Rob's pronunciation is very close to correct.  Bob Holmes and I 
spent a few hours with Alain Carion and Anne Black at the Tucson Show while 
filming a segment for our soon to be released video.  While Alain talked 
about the Tatahouine meteorite, Anne held two very large specimens in her 
hands for the camera.  Even with his beautiful thick French accent, it was 
easy to hear how Alain pronounced the name.  Since he has personally hunted 
the strew field several times, I'd venture that he is pronouncing it properly.

Best,

John Gwilliam

At 10:53 PM 3/2/03 -0800, Matson, Robert wrote:
Hi Jeff,

My "assumption" based on rudimentary francais has been
that it is pronounced something like:
ta'-tuh-ween'

with the main accent on the third syllable, and more
emphasis on the first syllable than the second.  The first
"ta" rhymes with the "ca" of cat.  Again, this is a guess.
The Labennes (or Anne) could give you a more accurate
pronunciation.
Cheers,
Rob
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Re: Fw: [meteorite-list] First report of a New Fall!

[John Gwilliam]

At 10:14 AM 2/24/03 -0800, fcressy wrote:
Frank Cressey wrote:
You're correct that on the photos Adam supplied the crust doesn't look
 "midnight" black as we expect it should. However, I think this could be a
 result of lighting during photography or maybe weathering...


My guess is that the picture of Hupe's newly acquired specimens is over 
exposed.  Even in our new-age of digital photography, it's quite easy to 
get the wrong exposure.  One way to prevent this is to shoot the subject 
with an 18% photo gray card (receiving the same reflected light) in the 
picture.  Since 18% gray cards are a universal standard in the photo 
industry, it would be quite easy to color correct an image (Like Hupe's) 
until it matched an 18% card held up to your monitor for 
comparison.  Another thing to remember is that all monitors don't display a 
particular color exactly the same from computer to computer.

My personal opinion about the specimens in the picture is over exposed a 
stop or so, and that the fusion crust is fresher and darker than it 
appears. Yes, there is some rusty color evident on some of the specimens, 
but like others have mentioned before, several months exposed to the 
elements can cause this.  Bensour is one that has been mentioned, another 
is Ourique, the stone that Mike Farmer recovered in Portugal.

Once all of the brave-hearted soles are back home with the real thing, I'm 
sure the questions will all be answered.

Best,

John Gwilliam





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[meteorite-list] Breaking News - Space Shuttle Columbia

[John Gwilliam]

In my haste to type and send this message to the List before leaving for 
Tucson this morning, deja vu must have affected me.  The original message 
should read "the Columbia is gone."

*

It appears that the space shuttle Challenger is gone.  While on it's glide 
approach for landing this morning, it disappeared from radar and all 
communications were lost at an altitude of about 200,000 feet.  People in 
the northeast section of  Texas, about 100 miles north of Dallas, have 
reported hearing explosions loud enough to rattle windows in houses.

A few moments ago, footage was show on one of the national news channels of 
what appears to be the Challenge breaking up in the upper atmosphere with 
several distinct smoke trails visible.

More information will become available throughout the morning.

Regretfully,

John Gwilliam


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[meteorite-list] Breaking News - Space Shuttle Challenger Missing

[John Gwilliam]

It appears that the space shuttle Challenger is gone.  While on it's glide 
approach for landing this morning, it disappeared from radar and all 
communications were lost at an altitude of about 200,000 feet.  People in 
the northeast section of  Texas, about 100 miles north of Dallas, have 
reported hearing explosions loud enough to rattle windows in houses.

A few moments ago, footage was show on one of the national news channels of 
what appears to be the Challenge breaking up in the upper atmosphere with 
several distinct smoke trails visible.

More information will become available throughout the morning.

Regretfully,

John Gwilliam


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Re: [meteorite-list] Holbrook Boy

[John Gwilliam]

Jim and List,
The best person to answer this question would be our Holbrook historical 
expert and fellow List member, Dave Andrews.  I can't recall Dave ever 
mentioning the boy in any of our conversations.

However, I am aware of at least one eyewitness to the Holbrook fall that is 
still alive.  Pauline McCleve was 17 when the event happened and is now 106 
years old.  Over the years, I have talked with her on several occasions and 
up until two years ago her memory was still quite sharp.  Her health has 
now deteriorated to a point that she cannot communicate with nor recognize 
family members.  Her recollection of the fall and the recovery of 
meteorites by her father, uncle and fiance would vary from time to time, 
but overall, her story was quite interesting.  Fortunately, this story 
(along with some old photographs..we hope) is well preserved by her 
daughter and grandson.

Best,

John Gwilliam

At 06:46 AM 1/31/03 -0800, James O'Roark wrote:
Just wondering, who was the boy who came into the diner (?) saying that it
was raining rocks?  Is he still alive and has he ever been interviewed?

Jim in San Juan Capistrano



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[meteorite-list] Tucson Show 2003 Video - Final Reminder

[John Gwilliam]

List Members,
In less than a week, the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show will be up and 
running.  Bob Holmes and I would like to remind all of you that we will be 
shooting a video at the Show with the focus on meteorites, the meteorite 
people and related events.

So far, we have had lots of List members contact us and make plans to be 
part of this project.  Any of you that will be attending the Tucson Show 
and would like to appear in this video, even just to wave and say"hi", 
please let us know.  The video will be shot February 6-9, 2003 which is the 
weekend that most of the meteorite related events will be happening.

 We will be at Twink/Larry/Jim's Party, the Birthday Bash and Blood's 
Auction as well as various locations around the Show.

Bob and I will be at the Show from February 6 - 9th.  You can contact us at 
the following phone numbers.

John Gwilliam 	602-509-4343

Bob Holmes	602-999-3600

You can also reply to this email up until noon on Wednesday, February 5, 2003.


See you in Tucson,

John Gwilliam and Bob Holmes




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Re: [meteorite-list] Nevada Meteorites

[John Gwilliam]

At 07:28 AM 1/18/03 -0500, almitt wrote:

Hi Bernd and all,

Bernd Pauli HD wrote:

Beer Bottle Pass

AL says:

This had to be found by a meteorite dealer as it follows true 
tradition.  There are a
few beer bottle passes at the Tucson and Denver Shows. Just won't be the same
otherwise. My main concern was it warm or cold  ;-)

--AL


It was still warm.almost hot;-)

John Gwilliam




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Re: [meteorite-list] Nevada meteorites

[John Gwilliam]

At 11:34 AM 1/18/03 +0100, Peter Marmet wrote:

Hello Rosie

Catalogue of Meteorites  (M. Grady) p 51:

Nevada

Alkali
Bonnie Claire 001
Bonnie Claire 002
Hot Springs
Primm
Quartz Mountain
Quinn Canyon
Roach

Regards

Peter Marmet


Morning List,

Here is a near complete list of the Nevada meteorites found to date. This 
was originally posted by Rob Matson on 12/23/02.

1908 - Quinn Canyon
1935 - Quartz Mountain
3/ 8/1995 - Hot Springs - found by Mr. F. Keiper
12/23/1997 - Primm - initial finds by Nick and Paul Gessler
1/ 2/1998 - Roach - Nick and Paul Gessler
5/ 2/1998 - Bonnie Claire 001 - Nick Gessler
5/ 2/1998 - Bonnie Claire 002 - Nick Gessler
7/20/1998 - Alkali - Nick Gessler
5/ 2/1999 - Beer Bottle Pass - John Gwilliam
5/ 2/1999 - Devil Peak - John Gwilliam
10/28/1999 - Bluewing 002-004 - Paul Gessler
11/ 4/1999 - Bluewing 005 - Paul Gessler
11/ 7/1999 - Bluewing 006-007 - Paul (sic Nick) Gessler
2/28/2000 - Tungsten Mountain 001 - Paul Gessler
6/14/2000 - Bluewing 001 - Paul Gessler
11/26/2000 - Dry Lake Valley - Robert Verish
3/19/2001 - Kumiva Valley - Nick Gessler
5/28/2001 - Tungsten Mountain 002-004 - Robert Verish
8/ 4/2001 - Tungsten Mountain 005-006 - Jerry LaBarbera
8/ 4/2001 - Tungsten Mountain 007-010 - Jim LaBarbera
8/17/2001 - Diamond Valley - Nick Gessler






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Re: [meteorite-list] classification plakards

[John Gwilliam]

Try purchasing a copy of "Catalog of Meteorites" published by The Natural 
History Museum.  Copies can be found from time to time on the Internet and 
on Ebay.  I recently purchased a copy from fellow list member Dave Andrews 
for $300.00 so I would be prepared to answer questions I might have about 
rare and common meteorites.  You might also try doing some personal 
research in one of the many good libraries in Saint Petersburg.

Regards,

John

At 05:31 AM 1/6/03 -0800, STEVE ARNOLD wrote:

Good morning to all worldwide from the midwest. I am going to be getting 
some rare russian meteorite micro's soon. I was wondering, where does one 
go to get the info on the histories of these little gems? I have tried 
several websites. but nothing seems to come up. HELP!


>   STEVE ARNOLD, CHICAGO



Steve r. Arnold, Chicago, il, 60107

The midwest meteorite collector!

I.M.C.A. member #6728

Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com



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RE: [meteorite-list] A Meteorite Now Doin' 20mph in the fast lane.....

[John Gwilliam]

ust and the probability of 
meteorites having a light interior.  "Oh, I read about it in a magazine the 
night before the meteorite hit my mobile home."  Well, I asked if I might 
see his magazine, and it turned out to be, you guessed it, another of Bob 
Haag's Field Guide of Meteorites!

My list of questions I ask folks who claim they have found a meteorites now 
includes,"do you own any books or magazines about meteorites...especially 
one written by Bob Haag?

Best,

John Gwilliam



At 11:27 AM 1/4/03 -0800, Frank Prochaska wrote:
Hello Kevin and List,

I am inclined to believe that this was not an actual meteorite fall, for a
couple reasons.  I live in Washington State, and have done a fair amount of
amateur research on the meteorites from my state, and some of the
particulars of the story from Florida remind me of the account of the
Kirkland, WA fall that turned out to be a hoax.  (Though it sure doesn't
seem like the gentlemen in Florida is trying to mislead anyone.)

Something that makes a 2" diameter hole will have reached terminal velocity;
it will not have retained any of it's original cosmic velocity.  This means
it will essentially be free-falling, straight down, towards the Earth's
center of gravity.  A 45 - 60 degree impact angle at the Earth's surface for
a small free-falling meteorite is not consistent with what we know of the
physics of falls.  Another detail that, for me at least, would call into
question whether the perpetrator here was in fact a meteorite is the damage
done to the R.V.  A 2 inch diameter meteorite is awefully small to punch
through a fiberglass roof, 3/8 of an inch of plywood, and continue through
insulation.  I doubt a 2 inch rock in free-fall would have enough kinetic
energy to do that, and it seems that plenty of 2 inch stones have been
picked up from fresh strewn-fields from land that did not show much, if any,
sign of impact pitting or marking.  The cases of meteorites penetrating
houses and so forth have been significantly larger that 2 inches in
diameter, and remember the mass of such objects increases with the cube of
diameter.

It's an interesting story and I am curious as to what did in fact make that
hole, but I doubt it's a meteorite.

Frank Prochaska



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 9:46 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Meteorite Now Doin' 20mph in the fast
lane.


Many of us get a chance to investigate freshly reported meteorite falls of
which 99.99% are quickly resolved. Here's one that's going to remain a
mystery.

I've just spoken with a 72-year-old gentleman who believes that a meteorite
fell through his R.V.

All of the information contained herein is from this individual and I
haven't
researched the particulars.

The alleged event occurred last September, at about 7:30PM during a sunset
obscured by threatening clouds. The Lehigh Acres, Florida retiree, was
parked
at a campground on the banks of the Potomac River. He believes he endured "a
warning shot from God" when an object crashed into the roof of his 30' (9 m)
Itasca motorhome penetrating the fiberglass roof, continuing through 3/8" (8
mm) plywood ("the hole looked rounded like someone hit it with a ballpeen
hammer"), apparently becoming embedded somewhere within 4" (10 cm) of hard
foam insulation.

He was standing next to the door of his R.V. (recreational vehicle) when he
heard the crash.

He looked up to see what was falling, and told me upon questioning that he
saw no smoketrail. However, his view was blocked by adjacent trees in a
wooded area with threatening skies.

He said that "had it been 12" (30 cm) over, it would have hit me in the
head."

He crawled up the ladder attached to the side of the vehicle high enough to
note that there were no tree branches that had fallen. He observed a 2" (5
cm.) diameter hole and that the object had continued through the plywood
ceiling. He was surprised at the angle of descent and estimated it at 45-60
degrees from the West. It was going to rain so he covered the hole with
plastic, and called his insurance agent.

A Hartford Insurance representative visited the next day and assessed the
damage as due to "either a meteorite or a falling object from a plane."
Because rain was still imminent, repairmen immediately repaired the
fiberglass roof without searching for the object possibly embedded somewhere
in the insulation. No one thought it was worth the trouble.

Notably, this gentleman tells me that the campground is across from a US
Government military installation in Indian Head, Maryland, an area of
restricted airspace.

Kevin Kichinka




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[meteorite-list] Tucson Show 2003 - Video

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List Members,
Over the past year, Bob Holmes (a fellow list member) and I have been 
preparing to produce a video at the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show 2003 with the 
focus on meteorites, the meteorite people and related events.

We think this video will be of interest to all meteorite enthusiasts.  It 
will also be a good way for those of you who cannot attend the show 
personally to see and hear some members of the meteorite community and  see 
some fantastic meteorites as well.

This will not be a "home video" project - we will be using professional 
grade equipment to help us produce a top quality product with an 
anticipated running time of 45 - 50 minutes.

Any of you that will be attending the Tucson Show and would like to appear 
in this video, please contact me and let me know what days you will be 
attending. Our plan right now is for the majority of the video to be shot 
February 7-9, 2003 which is the weekend that most of the meteorite related 
events will be happening.

For more information, please contact me ASAP.  We haven't set a deadline 
yet, but we would like to get our schedule lined out well in advance.  If 
more folks respond than we can fit into the video, we will be using the 
"first-come-first-served"concept as one of the methods of choosing our 
final list.  We also reserve the right to include only those people that we 
feel properly represent the science and hobby of meteorites and the 
meteorite community in general.

Best Regards,

John Gwilliam and Bob Holmes





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Re: [meteorite-list] Simple tektite test

[John Gwilliam]

Hello All,
John Blennert told me a couple of years ago that if suspected tektites were 
heated with a torch, it would react differently than anapache tear.  One 
melts and froths up and the other just glows readI think the true 
tektites simply glow red.

If JB is monitoring the list, maybe he can clarify things. I believe Jim 
Kriegh also knows something about this test.

John

At 03:44 PM 12/20/02 -0800, N Lehrman wrote:
Rob and list,

Sounds like a good idea--but I just tried it, and both Thailandites and 
Rizalites with impeccable credentials get just as hot as Apache Tears that 
I collected directly from perlite outcrops.

Keep the ideas coming!

Norm
- Original Message -
From: Matson, Robert
To: 'N Lehrman' ; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentra 
l.com
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 2:51 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Simple tektite test

Hi All,

I believe this test was mentioned a while back by Bob Verish or another list
member, but can't you just put a tektite candidate in a microwave oven,
blast it for 30 seconds, and see if it gets hot?  It is my understanding 
that
tektites (due to the low water content) will not; obsidian, apache tears,
terrestrial glass all will.  --Rob
-Original Message-
From: N Lehrman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 11:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentra 
l.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tektite identification criterion

Mark and list,

Properties like those you've listed do show helpful variations, but the 
range between individual tektite types tends to overlap with terrestrial 
materials to the point that none of this allows one to discriminate 
between tektites and other materials.

Despite the thousands of papers debating the myriad mysteries of tektite 
lore, I don't know of any that directly address the fundamental question 
"how do you tell if something is or is not a tektite?".  I'd love to hear 
from any of you out there with ideas or suggested references.

I'm going to pull a synthesis of this subject together with time, and 
there is a reasonable stash of widely scattered data that bear on the 
subject.  The really big challenge though is coming up with criteria that 
can be used outside of a major university laboratory setting.  For 
example, one of the hallmark characteristics of tektite glass is its 
exceedingly low water content.  However, you'd be hard pressed to find 
any commercial laboratory that could provide an accurate determination of 
this property at the levels of resolution we require.  Ditto a good ion 
microprobe analysis.  This is all great stuff in the academic laboratory 
settings where most technical publications originate, but what are we 
supposed to do out here on the front lines?

Of course, there are great folks in academia who will collaborate on 
worthy issues, but such matters cannot extend to passing judgment on 
suspect materials that arrive in the mail every other week.  You 
meteorite freaks know the routine well---and have developed a pretty good 
bag of tricks to screen the winners from the losers.  With tektites, 
we've barely emerged from debating the very definition of the word.

Cheers,

Norm
(TektiteSource.com)



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Re: [meteorite-list] looking for four cornrs meteorite

[John Gwilliam]

I have a small block of Chinga (40.0g) that has eight corners.  If you want 
a price/picture, let me know.

John

At 05:10 AM 12/10/02 -0800, STEVE ARNOLD wrote:
Is there any four corners meteorites out there forsale?

Steve r. Arnold, Chicago, il, 60107

The midwest meteorite collector!

I.M.C.A. member #6728

Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com



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[meteorite-list] Ebay Fraud and "the toughest sheriff in America"

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,
I know this is "off topic" but since the thread of Ebay fraud was a current 
issue, I thought some of you might like to see what one Arizona agency is 
doing to combat the problem.

The self proclaimed "toughest sheriff in America", Joe Arpaio, the sheriff 
of Maricopa County, is cracking down on fraudulent use of Internet auctions 
including Ebay. In the past, Sheriff Joe has received national attention 
for some of his unconventional ideas like feeding green balogna and 
"nutri-loaf" to his prisoners and issuing them pink underwear.

Link to the entire article below.
*
News from the Arizona Republic newspaper, November 22, 2002

"Valley shoppers routinely turn to Internet auction sites to buy items 
ranging from a diet bake mix to a Disneyland vacation."

"But instead of getting their goods, authorities say, many Net users have 
received a lesson in cybercrime. Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio vowed 
Thursday to crack down on Valley computer crooks who post items and fail to 
deliver."

**
Read the entire article here:
<http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1122auctionfraud22.html>

If you think this is a good idea, forward the article to your local city 
council and law enforcement agencies.

Best,

John Gwilliam



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Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2003 Events

[John Gwilliam]

At 11:14 PM 11/12/02 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In a message dated 11/12/2002 8:43:47 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


To help the poor, lost newbies like myself find the interesting (meteorite)
events, is there a calendar or guide for the show specific to our
sub-group?  When and where are the parties, the big dealers, auctions,
museum displays, etc.?



It is rather simple.
First you explore the InnSuites, and you will find there a lot of 
meteorite dealers.
Then you hang around the InnSuites, and if you hang around long enough you 
will see everybody else, because everybody ends up at the InnSuites eventually.

And since you are now a Tucson "native", you can help all of us 
out-of-towners by having lists of hotels, restaurants,.and maps, ready 
and available.
You might even want to contact Twink and offer to help her. She is 
Tucson's Hostess.

See you there.

Anne Black
IMCA #2356
www.IMPACTIKA.com
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Hello All,
In addition to hanging around the Inn Suites, where you will indeed run 
into everyone from the meteorite community, there is one other place that 
all meteorite dealers and collectors traditional congregate. The place is 
Blaine Reed's room.  Blaine is a long-time dealer from Colorado who has 
been in room #110 at the Ramada Inn on Oracle for more years than most of 
us can remember.

The Ramada Inn has changed ownership and it's name. It is now called the 
Vagabond - same place, just a different name.  So if any of you are going 
to Tucson for the first time this year and try to find the Ramada Inn, make 
note of the name change.

Vagabond Inn (or Suites)
1601 N. Oracle
Tucson AZ

See you all there...it's just a few more months away.

Best,

John Gwilliam



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Re: [meteorite-list] Alien's with green waste?

[John Gwilliam]

KK, Mike, Dave and List,
Among the truly gifted people on this List, Kevin Kichinka ranks near the 
top for his writing skills as a word smithy. Knowing Kevin personally, I 
will vouch for him and say that his use of the "s" word was surely meant to 
be humorous and not offensive.

However, since there are some list members who object to the word 
(including myself, who has been known to use it on occasions) I suggest we 
find an alternate word that will be more acceptable.
Since meteorite anagrams have become so popular in the last few days, I 
have listed a few anagrams for synonyms ( for Dave Freeman's 
benefit...those are words that have the same meaning...;-)) for the "s" word.

acac
oppo
prac

Respectfully,

John


At 07:26 PM 11/6/02 -0700, David Freeman wrote:
Dear Mike, list;
I agree with your dislike of the "S" word, I found it rather crude and 
lacking taste as well, although I used it once in private in a moment of 
pain and disbelief when I locked my keys in the car, and the other time 
when I locked myself out of the house.
I do think that most any kid that finds his/her way to our list has 
probably already been exposed to drugs in school, probably had the 
opportunity to use the "S" word themselves numerous times, coveted at 
least a few things in the adult world, cars, loud sterio, RAP music, etc. 
(oh, I forgot that they can all surf the net better than we, and can type 
"sex" into the search engines), and are basically not even virgins anymore 
after 14 or 15 years old.  Most have tried cigarettes and many have 
probably drank alcohol.
"S" words do not belong on the list but I doubt that the children of the 
list were as shocked as the adults.
I'd rather block or delete common/repeat idiots (and we have a few) that 
an occasional error in language or taste.

I mean, I love the dog story as much as anyone, but I respect all here 
enough to delete them rather than block them out, we all have something of 
value to contribute on occasion.

Save the Kevin Foundation,
DAve F.   Who didn't know what an anagram was, I don't do crosswords either.
Long live the dog's tail.

Mike Groetz wrote:

Another email sender blocked. Kids (and adults) read
these emails to learn. Many kids have typed in here
before asking questions. What benefit is this posting?


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Of course alien shit's OK. Everyone's shit's OK.

(Sikhote Alin...)

Kevin Kichinka

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Re: [meteorite-list] still looking for nova 001

[John Gwilliam]

Try Ron Farrell at Bethany Sciences.

Best,
John Gwilliam

At 05:26 AM 11/6/02 -0800, STEVE ARNOLD wrote:


I received a couple of answers about NOVA 001,but is there anyone else out 
there that can let me know if anyone has this meteorite? And please be 
nice about this!


> steve



Steve r. Arnold, Chicago, il, 60107

The midwest meteorite collector!

I.M.C.A. member #6728

Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com



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[meteorite-list] Tucson Show 2003 - An interesting side trip.

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,
I know that most of you come to the Tucson Show exclusively for 
meteorites,  but their is an opportunity to visit a marvelous living cave 
located quite close to Tucson.
 I thought that some of you with interests and/or backgrounds in geology 
might be interested in a side trip to Kartchner Caverns about 70 miles 
southeast of Tucson.  If any of you are interested in more information, go 
to this URL.


 <http://www.friendsofkartchner.org/>

Regards,

John Gwilliam


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Re: [meteorite-list] A Passing On

[John Gwilliam]

Sarah,
I am saddened at the news of your husbands untimely death.  The 
contributions made to this world by your and David's efforts have made a 
profound impact on our scientific community, especially among the younger 
generations. Your work will live on in the great posters you have created.
Last Spring, one of my older daughters came home from college for a 
visit.  When she saw one of you Periodic Table in Earth and Sky posters on 
the wall in my office, she said that if science had been that cool when she 
was in high school she would have enjoyed it more and paid more attention.
My condolences to you Sarah, your collective family and friends.  Forty 
eight years is not nearly enough time for a creative mind to share his 
thoughts and dreams.

Best Regards,

John Gwilliam

At 08:29 AM 10/31/02 -0600, Jensan Scientifics/ Sci-Mall wrote:
Dear List Members,

I regret to inform you that my talented and amazing husband, David L.
Coleman passed away yesterday after a sudden stroke.  Davids talent went
beyond the scope of just loving science. With me he invented many
wonderful educational posters and geolgical study sets that changed the
way people at the sciences, such as astrogeology with our World Impact
Maps.

As most things are, his work will probably be more esteemed in death
than in his short life.

David was 48.

I will miss him terribly.

Sarah Kennedy-Coleman
Jensan Scientifics/ ScienceMall-USA

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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite's Location Found In Siberia

[John Gwilliam]

Bernd and List,
Metal detectors can work effectively through snow... if it isn't too 
deep.  One of our list members, Ivan Koutyrev, and his partner, Vladimir, 
have successfully used a metal detector in their search for the Brahin 
pallasite.  In fact, Ivan told me they actually prefer hunting over snow 
when using one of their specialized machines.

First of all, fresh snow on the ground allows a hunter to easily see what 
area he has covered and what he hasn't.  Secondly,  all the pesky flies and 
mosquitoes that are present in tremendous hoards during the Summer and 
early Fall are gone.  Finally, and  most important, the snow actually makes 
using their particular machine easier.

The type of metal detector used by Ivan and Vladimir is not your standard 
"hand-held" unit you might see being used on other meteorite hunts.  They 
use a professional model manufactured by Lowrance that has a 4 foot square 
coil and is quite heavy and cumbersome. Rather than lug this huge coil 
around on a wand as with traditional metal detectors, the coil is mounted 
on an all plastic sled and pulled through the snow.

If Ivan is currently monitoring the list, perhaps he can elaborate on the 
idea of hunting in snow.

Best,

John Gwilliam

At 07:16 PM 10/28/02 +0100, Bernd Pauli HD wrote:
Ron Baalke wrote::

> According to Sergey Yazev, director of the Irkutsk State University's
> observatory, who returned last Sunday from an expedition, trees broken
> or chopped by the meteorite's fragments were found 37 km from the Mama
> settlement. No fragments of the sky body which exploded in the atmosphere
> have been found, as the area in the forest is covered with deep snow now.

Hello Ron and List, especially those experts using metal detectors,

This may be a dumb question but I have nil experience with metal
detectors. Wouldn't it be possible to detect meteoritic debris with
the help of high-precision metal detectors even if it is covered by
several inches of snow?

Best regards,

Bernd

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Re: [meteorite-list] Pay Pal Fraud

[John Gwilliam]

I agree with Matt.  I'd rather take a check or a money order any day than 
have to deal with the high fees and potential problems associated with an 
internet based payment system.  Every time the "good guys" develop a new 
system or service, the "bad guys" aren't far behind.

If you think the problems with Paypal were bad before, just wait and see 
what happens now that it is owned by Ebay.  If  you ever have a problem 
with Ebay,  try and get a warm body on the phone...it simply won't happen.

John Gwilliam


At 10:43 AM 10/23/02 -0600, Matt Morgan wrote:
Mark:
This is one of the reasons I am abandoning the use of PayPal. Security 
coupled with OUTRAGEOUS fees, did it for me. I will take a check any day 
over PayPal.
Matt Morgan

At 11:36 AM 10/23/2002 -0500, you wrote:
Hello List,

Since a lot of list members use Pay Pal, I thought I would tell everyone 
that..

Last night I was hit by a hacker to my Pay Pal account.  They were able 
to take about $1000 before Pay Pal threw a security blanket on my 
account.  I have changed my password and everything and called Pay Pal 
who is trying to fix everything.  So untill then my Pay Pal account is 
frozen, with all the money that is in there.  Which is almost like 
punishing me.  Strange thing is they got in and kept taking little 
amounts ($100-$260).  I've sent large sums before with Pay Pal so I am 
unsure why they didnt try, the funds  where there.  Pay Pal's system did 
catch one of the charges and reversed it.  I am really hoping they 
reverse the others.

I have never given my password out to anybody or anything.  I do not have 
it written anywhere.  I am really at a loss on how they got in there.

Mark


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Re: [meteorite-list] [OT] Norton behind the Virus

[John Gwilliam]

At 03:18 AM 10/12/02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I realize this is more than a little OT and probably wasting some people's 
>time -- so I apologize in advance -- but I just couldn't resist. Of all 
>the weird things I've seen on the M-List (and there have been plenty), 
>accusing Symantec of creating new viruses in order to sell their own 
>products is one of the nuttiest . . . right up there with the Frass 
>meteorite even!

Hello Geoff and List Members,

I have an associate that used to work as a security advisor for an 
anti-virus software company other than Symantec.  He told me that this 
particular (and left nameless here) company had a policy of paying their 
customers a $50.00 finders fee for every new virus they sent in for 
recognition and analysis.  It turned out that several of the companies 
programers were creating new viruses in their spare time and turning them 
in for the reward money.

 From the outside looking in, it might appear that some impropriety was 
taking place, but it certainly wasn't the company itself that was creating 
the problem.  A software giant like Symantec would not risk their 
reputation and their future by creating new viruses just to sell more of 
their products.

John Gwilliam




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Re: [meteorite-list] Source for Oxalic Acid

[John Gwilliam]

Any good Lapidary supply store will either stock or can order you oxalic 
acid.  It is used to remove iron oxide (rust) and other deposits from 
mineral specimens.

John Gwilliam

At 02:02 PM 10/11/02 -0400, Allen Emer wrote:
>Looks like my Campo is getting some rust...
>
>Anyone know of a source for Oxalic Acid to clean it with?   Any ideas 
>would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>
>Al Emer
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] help with list?

[John Gwilliam]

Tom,
All posts to the List can vary in their delivery time depending on
several factors including your ISP and routing stations.  I am
curious about one thing though - how did you receive your at 9:30PM today
(10-10-02) when it's still  AM  here in the USA?  

John 

At 09:36 AM 10/10/02 -0700, Tom / james Knudson wrote:
Hello List, I posted a test intitled Test 5:47
which i posted at 5:47 pm on the 9th, yesterday, and I recieved the post
at 9:30 pm today the 10th. Is this a List or Hotmail thing?


Thanks, Tom
The proudest member of the I.M.C.A. #6168


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Re: [meteorite-list] nickel test

[John Gwilliam]

Hello All,
The process described below can result in some false positives.  When 
working with such a small test specimen, it is imperative you don't 
contaminate it during handling or preparation.  If you cut and polish 
meteorites regularly, you will have an accumulation of dust in your work 
area that contains nickel.  Setting your specimen on a table or handling it 
with contaminated gloves can introduce enough nickel to result in false 
positive.

The proper spelling for the chemical being discussed here 
is  "Dimethylglyoxime"  (2,3-Butanedione Dioxime).

Regards,

John Gwilliam


At 10:19 PM 10/7/02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Hi Tom
>This is out of Meteorites Messengers from space by Heide and Wlotzka: I've
>added my comments in ()First, a small portion of the metal has to be 
>disolved in acid. This can
>be achieved by placing a drop of dilute hydrocloric acid 10% on the metal
>surface. (this is avail all over and may be called muratic acid, the stuff
>they use in pools...this in my imput not the authors)Atfer some time the 
>acid will become yellow by the disolved iron. It can
>now be removed with a pipette (or glass eye dropper I should think) and
>placed on a white porcellain plate. (don't let your wife catch you using
>her plates and make sure to turn it over and use the unglazed side so you
>don't introduce outside metals used in the glaze, or use a piece of
>unglazed floor tile) Here the acid is neutralized with a drop of dilute
>ammonia. The proof of nickle is accomplished with dimethylgloxime. (you
>might have to call around for this substance, try some pharmacies, or if
>you know someone in a university lab, they may have it) A drop of 1%
>solution of this reagent in alcohol (if you have a 100 ml vial, one
>percent would be 1 ml of reagent, and fill the vile to the 100 ml line
>with ethyl alcohol) is applied to the test solution. If nickle is present,
>a red color or precipitation (precipitation will look like little red
>flakes, very small)develops.Hope this helps you
>Mark
> >
> > Hello List, Can any one tell me how to do a nickle test in a simple
> > easy to understand  way? I have no back ground in chemistry. : )
> >
> > Thanks, Tom
> >
> > The proudest member of the I.M.C.A. #6168
> >
> > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here
> >
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Re: [meteorite-list] Catalog of Meteorites

[John Gwilliam]

List Members,

Thanks to those of you that offered your advice in solving this 
problem.  Bill Russell came up with the solution and wired my buddy Bob 
Holmes a missing file named  "ctl3d.dll".  Bob added the file to the CatMet 
folder and the program now runs fine.  Dave Andrews told me that some of 
the CDs are missing this file and some are not.  My guess is that 
"ctl3d.dll" is a required file for Win2000 but not the other Windows 
operating systems.

Geoff Notkin offered the best advice of all."Buy a Mac".;-)

Best,

John Gwilliam

At 07:37 AM 8/29/02 -0400, S.Singletary wrote:
>I've been using CatMet with Win2k and haven't had any problems.  I have no 
>idea what the problem could be, sorry.
>
>
>At 04:53 PM 8/28/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>>Hello All,
>>Today when trying to install the Catalog of Meteorites CD on my laptop 
>>running Window 2000 (Win2K) I have had nothing but problems.  The CD will 
>>load the software on my computers running Windows 95 and Windows ME, but 
>>I'm taking them out of service and want to use CatMet with Win2K.
>>
>>Has anyone else had a compatibility problem with Window 2000?  Any advice 
>>will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>John Gwilliam
>>
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>
>Steven Singletary
>54-1224
>Dept. Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences
>M.I.T.
>Cambridge, MA 02139
>Tel - 617.253.6398
>Fax - 617.253.7102
>


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[meteorite-list] Catalog of Meteorites

[John Gwilliam]

Hello All,
Today when trying to install the Catalog of Meteorites CD on my laptop 
running Window 2000 (Win2K) I have had nothing but problems.  The CD will 
load the software on my computers running Windows 95 and Windows ME, but 
I'm taking them out of service and want to use CatMet with Win2K.

Has anyone else had a compatibility problem with Window 2000?  Any advice 
will be appreciated.


Regards,

John Gwilliam

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Re: [meteorite-list] metal in meteorites?

[John Gwilliam]

Hematite and magnetite particles scattered throughout a rock matrix can
appear shiny in bright light.  Look at the same specimen that is not
in direct light and you will see it is really a dull grey.  True
iron nickel will still appear a bright almost white color in shaded
light.  Arizona produces lots of specimens that show a pattern of
these grey flecks in the matrix rock and they are quite magnetic as
well.

Regards,

John

At 09:37 PM 8/15/02 -0700, James_TOM Knudson wrote:
Sorry to ask another question List, But I feel
like the greatest minds in the meteorite field are on this list! So, Gold
basin has some nice shiny metal! I have spent a lot of time looking at my
piece of G.B... I have looked at the way it is arranged In the matrix,
Fascinating! It seems to be average from what I have seen. I found a rock
that has just as much metal arranged in a similar fashion, But it is not
as shiny as G.B..is it oxidized? Is there some thing else I do not know
of that looks like that? When you hold it in light it is real shiny but
strait on it looks dull! It is very
magnetic! Can any one shine a light on this subject?


Thanks, Tom


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Re: [meteorite-list] Brad Sampson Update

[John Gwilliam]

Matteo,

Here is the Ebay location you are looking for.  Good Luck!



Regards,

John

At 09:17 AM 8/12/02 -0700, Matteo Chinellato wrote:
>Hello all
>
>Where I have to go on Ebay for block Sampson no bid on
>my auctions? Thanks for info.
>Regards
>
>Matteo
>
>
>=
>M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
>Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
>http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
>International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
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Re: [meteorite-list] Nakhla and the dead mutt!

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,
Those of you that have been on the "List" a long time can
remember the Nakhla dog issue being an annual event.  With the
limited documentation that is available, it is impossible to know for
sure if the dog did or didn't exist.  It's somewhat like the debate
whether God exists or not, and there will always be those that believe or
disbelieve. 

John

At 10:05 AM 8/9/02 -0700, James_TOM Knudson wrote:
Hello List, I have a question! There is a lot
of arguing about this dog thing! If there is any validity at all to Ron
Baalke's theory, there could be one big strewn field between El Nakhla
and Denshal. Has anyone searched this area? If someone searches the area
they might find some nice meteorites and if real lucky a dog skeleton
with a meteorite lodged in its skull! That would prove this dog thing
once and for all. Tom



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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: It's Justa Dog Gone Goof

[John Gwilliam]

At 10:36 PM 8/8/02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated
8/8/2002 2:17:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 



The Cat of Meteorites 

and a cat too? 
That's new.  Did that poor cat get hit too?
;-) 


Anne Black 
IMCA #2356 
www.IMPACTIKA.com

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
I suppose that in order to be politically correct we must consider the possibility that a cat was also struck and killed by the Nakhla meteorite.

John

Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: Im home, fires

[John Gwilliam]

For those of you that are interested in the Arizona fires, there are some
interesting stories coming out of the area telling of local folks defying
the evacuation notices and staying behind to protest their own
homes.

My parents used to have a house in Heber up until my dad died in 1986.
Even though I didn't grow up there, it was a gathering place  during
the summer and holidays for the entire family. My mother sold her home to
her best friend and her husband and still stays in touch with them and
other old friends in the area. This story came from one of the families
in Heber yesterday morning.

 The canyon where my folks house is located is quite open and flat
but is full of waist-high dried grass. Many of the men from that
neighborhood decided they would not evacuate but decided to stay and work
to save their homes after sending their families off to safety. These are
homes that were built bit by bit as money became available and every one
of them were built by the hands of the people that live in them. I
personally know a bunch of these guys and I'm proud to say I applaud
their gallant pioneer attitude and courage.  They gathered together
what equipment they could get and  cut and dug their own fire break
a hundred yards or so south of my mothers old home.  Working around
the clock, they were able to finish the fire break before the flames
arrived.  The fire stopped at this break built by the locals and
most, if not all of the homes in the immediate area were safe.

No one has seen a spotted owl in the last 10 days.

Best to All,

John

At 11:36 PM 6/25/02 -0700, Michael Farmer wrote:

Just to let everyone
know, I have arrived back home tonight from Europe. The fires in Arizona
are more devistating than anything i've ever seen, I only have what I saw
on the news and internet, but I know the area and know what has burned,
it is terrible, basically everything I knew as a kid is gone, most of the
houses in Pinedale, my small town are gone, Heber was almost totally
gutted. Many of my friends have lost homes, and my childhood home burned.
I will try to get up there and see what is left. 
Mike Farmer
More info on the shows in Europe tomorrow. 
 

Re: [meteorite-list] OT: solar eclipse

[John Gwilliam]

Same here in Tempe (Phoenix).  My eight year old daughter and I used
a smoked glass plus the pin hole method of viewing the eclipse.  The
best part about it was the  15F temperature drop;-)

John

At 06:42 PM 6/10/02 -0700, Matson, Robert wrote:
Hi
All,
 
Great eclipse view here in Los
Angeles.  Peak was about 30 minutes ago.
Totally clear for once...!  --Rob

RE: [meteorite-list] diamond files

[John Gwilliam]

Hello Bob, Frank and List,

To those of you interested in diamond files used to cut open a window on
suspected meteorites, I have put together a web page with some
information and a picture.

<http://www.meteoriteimpact.com/diafiles.htm>

Regards,

John Gwilliam

At 05:19 PM 6/9/02 -0700, Frank Prochaska wrote:
Hello!
 
I'm interested in this as
well.  If someone knows of a good source or vendor, but doesn't want
to reply to the whole list, please copy me individually as
well.
 
Thank you!
 
Frank Prochaska
 
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Robert Cucchiara
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 11:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] diamond files


Hi list,  i am a new member to the list. I would like to know
what type of diamond files are best for field testing of specimens, who
makes them and where can i buy them. Anybody on the list sells
them.  Thanks in advance   Bob

Re: [meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Site Finally Getting Respect It Deserves

[John Gwilliam]

This is great news...and it's long past due.

Over the past five years, I have stopped and visited the crater several 
times when traveling through that part of Texas.  The area surrounding the 
crater is quite literally, a garbage dump.  Needless to say, it was a 
depressing thing to witness firsthand.  Most of the locals I talked to when 
asking for directions to the crater weren't even aware there was a crater 
nearby.  Hopefully all that will change now.

John


At 12:42 PM 6/4/02 -0700, Ron Baalke wrote:


>http://www.mywesttexas.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=2288&dept_id=475621&newsid=431 
>9596&PAG=461&rfi=9
>
>Odessa crater site finally getting respect it deserves
>By Tumbleweed Smith
>Midland Reporter-Telegram
>June 3, 2002
>
>ODESSA, TEXAS - State legislator Buddy West is responsible for passing a
>bill to create a museum and visitors' center at the meteor crater site.
>
>Finally. That big crater just outside Odessa is getting a little respect.
>State legislator Buddy West is responsible for passing a bill to create a
>museum and visitors' center at the site, complete with living quarters for a
>curator.
>
>For years the crater has been advertised in Chamber of Commerce literature,
>on highway signs and by an occasional newspaper or magazine article. But few
>people ever go there. For one thing, the highway signs don't give good
>directions. The crater is in an isolated oil patch down a small road 15
>miles southwest of Odessa. And who's interested in meteor craters, anyway?
>
>Tom Rodman is. He's an Odessa attorney who is the major spokesman for the
>crater. He has been fascinated with the geological wonder since boyhood
>because he's interested in things from outer space.
>
>"Flying through the air it's a meteor. When it comes to rest on the earth,
>it's a meteorite," said Tom.
>
>Odessa's crater is the second largest meteor crater in the world. Arizona
>has one larger. "Both places contribute more meteorites than any other
>locations in the world," he said.
>
>He said the meteor could have hit the earth 50,000 years ago.
>
>"It weighed about 70 tons and was the size of a small car. It impacted the
>earth with such force and released so much energy that the resulting heat
>and explosion completely vaporized the main mass of the meteorite. It had
>more energy than the atom bomb dropped on Hiroshima. Anything within a few
>miles would have been destroyed."
>
>It made a crater 500 feet wide and 100 feet deep. The University of Texas
>excavated the site in the late 1930s, thinking a huge chunk of the meteorite
>might be buried. But only small fragments were found.
>
>Limestone rocks form the rim of the depression, which over the years has
>been filled in with sand and silt. Tom helped construct rock-lined caliche
>paths around the crater. He spends countless hours at the site and wonders
>why others don't have the same boyish enthusiasm for it as he does. Tom said
>scientists believe some meteorites came from the moon or Mars.
>
>A small museum was built at the crater site in 1963 but people were breaking
>into it and stealing the valuable, irreplaceable meteorites inside. The
>museum was closed and the collection of meteorites was moved to the Ector
>County library. The new museum has added more meteorites collected from
>several sources.
>
>The site was discovered in the 1920s when a rancher found a fist-sized
>metallic rock, composed mostly of iron and nickel. One astronomer said it
>came from the core of a planet that had to be about 4 billion years old and
>several hundred miles in diameter, creating speculation that the planet may
>have exploded, sending debris into the universe.
>
>"You wonder what it must have been like when it hit. You also wonder what
>destruction would have occurred had it hit in modern times," said Tom.
>
>-- -- --
>
>Tumbleweed Smith is a Big Spring storyteller and folklorist.
>
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[meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Contest

[John Gwilliam]

After reading the article posted by Ron Baalke about the proposed salvaging 
of the Odessa Crater site, I decided to have a simple contest.
I have 5 extra brochures from the Odessa Crater that I will give to the 
first five people who correctly answer the following questions.

*

1. Who is considered the "King of Odessa meteorite hunters?

2. Two list members successfully hunted for meteorites at Odessa over 35 
years ago. Name them.

3. The Odessa Crater is located just south of Highway 80 between the city 
of Odessa and what other famous meteorite city?

Good Luck!

Best,

John Gwilliam


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Re: [meteorite-list] (no subject)

[John Gwilliam]

Congratulations Steve Arnold (Chicago), you have just been inducted into my 
Meteorite List Hall of Spam.  All inductees have a special filter designed 
just for them in my Eudora Pro email software.

John Gwilliam



At 06:08 PM 5/29/02 -0500, SSTEVE ARNOLD wrote:
>If you guys think that Blood's trinitite is hot, or the uranium balls are 
>hot stuff, you ought to see how hot my BETAFITE is! It is available, as 
>always for a trade or sale.
>
>S. R. Arnold, Chicago!!


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Re: [meteorite-list] TRINITITE

[John Gwilliam]

Where can I buy one of these "gigacounters ?  I've been out of
college so long I didn't know such a thing existed.  I always
thought the device used to detect ionizing radiation was a Geiger
counter, or more correctly called, a Geiger Muller counter.

When and where will you be selling your uranium balls?

Best,

John Gwilliam

At 04:20 PM 5/28/02 -0500, MARK BOSTICK wrote:
Hello All,
 
My trinite will just barely moves my gigacounterbarely.  The
uranium balls I have (and will soon be selling) move it more.  My
furniture does not move the gigacounter (nor does any of meteorites or
anything else I could find in my house.  
 
My father was a radition specialist in the army and use to give classes
in the early 80's when everybody was still kinda worried about Russia
nuking the US.  They used these heavy lead boxes to store small
radioactive things in.  
 
Also I do not believe, or see how,  tin foil would stop a gamma ray
or alpha ray..
 
Mark
 

- Original Message -
From: Edward Hodges
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 3:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] TRINITITE
 
I'm much too concerned with heating up my irradiated hamburger in 
my
microwave while talking on my cell phone, and drinking directly from
the
faucet. Honestly, there must be a thousand more dangerous things that
we do
everyday. I might have them swept with a Geiger counter, or place
them on
unexposed film just to be sure, but I don't think there's any real
danger.-
Edward






>From: Michael Blood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: rochette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [meteorite-list] TRINITITE
>Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 11:50:46 -0800
>
>Hi Pierre,
> "Better men than I," as the saying goes, have told me
2 different
>things regarding the radioactivity of Trinitite:
>1) That its radioactive level is so low as to be completely
irrelivant
>& that you could tape it to the inside of your jock strap and
wear
>it daily with ZERO impact on yourself or your offspring (I
wouldn't
>reccommend this, myself)
>2) Others have said it has a "lower" level of
radioactivity than the
>furnature in your home (I don't see how this is possible - but I
lack
>insight on several things)
> I do know some collectors keep their Trinitite wrapped in
>tin foil "just in case" - but then, some people wear
tin foil hats to
>protect them from the radio beams
> Best wishes, Michael
>
>--
>rochette wrote:
> > I am amazed that some people dare collecting this
material!
> > Army people say its radioactivity "should" have
come now to acceptable
> > level, but first who is able to trust 100% such quote (from
people who
> > experimented injection of plutonium into humans without
telling them)
>and
> > second even if on average this material may be relatively
safe, one
>cannot
> > exclude that a given sample is by chance loaded with a
speck of
>plutonium...
> >
> > so no thanks, even if cheaper than natural impact glass!
> >
> > Pierre
> >
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> >
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>
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Re: [meteorite-list] IMCA, Michael Blood's comments...another idea

[John Gwilliam]

After thinking about this issue all day, I've come up with an idea that can 
potentially educate all prospective meteorite buyers on Ebay.

An auction(or several) could be run every week by various concerned 
meteorite people offering the winning bidder some simple printed 
information about how to tell meteorites from meteorwrongs.  Start the 
bidding at just $1.00 and the auction listing fee and the final value fee 
should total than a buck.  Granted, not very many people would bid on a 
brochure containing this information, but the proper text within the 
auction description could provide valuable information about the problems 
we're talking about.

Here's how to reach a lot more people.

The description in the auction could have a link to a web page giving all 
the same information that would be offered in the brochure and more.  With 
the click of a few buttons, a neophyte meteorite buyer could access a 
website offering all kinds of information about meteorites, and more 
importantly, meteorwrongs.  Ebay allows links to websites that further 
describe the item being offered.  However, it would have to be a site that 
doesn't have an other link to a page offering meteorites for sale.

I think it's doable and could be quite effective.  Let's toss the idea 
around for a while and see what some of us think about it.

Who currently has an educational webpage devoted to identifying meteorites 
and wrongs that we could be linked to?

Best,

John

At 01:05 PM 5/19/02 -0700, Michael Blood wrote:
>Hi Tom, John, & the whole fan damly,
> Well, ok, then, howsabout a statement something like, "All
>IMCA members guarentee their material to be authentic - as
>do some reputable non members. We encourage you to buy only
>from individuals that guarentee their material to be meteoritic."
>This does not impede ANYONE or limit anyone, or require
>membership or anything other than ethical behavior regarding
>the sale of meteorites  - and if they DON'T guarentee their material
>to be meteoritic, they do not have my support in any  way, means or
>fashon. They are a threat to the stability of the field and I THOUGHT
>this was the primary stated goal at the founding of the IMCA.
> Perhaps I was under the wrong impression when I joined the
>IMCA. I thought the founding IDEA  was to form an organization
>that would guarentee new collectors (and all collecrors) they
>were getting getting legitimate meteoritic material - PARTICULARLY
>on eBay. (If you check the list archives, I belive you will find this is
>the case - but, like Dennis Miller, "I could be wrong") If there is
>no statement encouraging people only buy with a guarentee of
>authenticity (whether from a member or not) then WHAT IS THE
>POINT?
> I may or may not agree with other "ethical" issues of other
>members - but this is the REASON I joined - to improve the
>respectability - the reputation, as it were, of our field.
> Best wishes, Michael
>PS: Yes, Mike Farmer, it was in reference to you as an example of
>a trustworthy dealer who was not (yet?) a member of the  IMCA
>- it was in response to a posting in which your last name had been
>included.
>PPS: I respectfully request I not be referred to by various members
>or our alustruous community as "Blood." We are  not privates in
>the Army or high school students - which are the ONLY arenas in
>which last-name-only referencing is deamed apropriate.
>
>
>--
>"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."
>-- Dan Quayle, 11/30/88
>--
>Worth Seeing:
>-  Earth at night from satalite:
>http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg
>-   Earth - variety of choices:
>http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html
>--
>FREE COLLEGE MONEY
>CLICK HERE to search
>600,000 scholarships!
>http://us.click.yahoo.com/iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/jFYolB/TM
>--
>Michael Blood Meteorites, Didgeridoos & Insects in Amber for sale at:
>http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/
>
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John Gwilliam Meteorites
PO Box 26854
Tempe  AZ  85285
http://www.meteoriteimpact.com

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Re: [meteorite-list] IMCA, Blood's comments

[John Gwilliam]

At 08:57 PM 5/19/02 -0500, Mark Bostick wrote:
 From M.
Blood..
 
Rob, Mike & all,
We all know Rob & Mike are 100% honest & stand by their
material.
Why aren't you guys members?  Since, as I understand it, the
primary
purpose of IMCA is to guarentee authenticity, why would anyone NOT
be
a member? 
If we aren't all in this togeather, then it is really worthless,
impotent
nonsense. (or, maybe I'm missing something - if so, someone please
tell
me what it is)  
Rob & Mike, I'm listening - tell me the strait poop - perhaps you
have
good reasons, in which case I will bale as well. If not, then let's
all
do the
right thing. 
And Rhett, let's not be shy, here, or what's the point. 
RSVP
Best wishes, Michael

Michael, 
 
I think this is a very bad ideal.  It is
not our job or responsibility to police or try to control the
market.  The IMCA is a step and should be looked as such.  I
had the ideal of a dealers award. This could be another IMCA step. 
We could and should look for ways to expand it.  This is not one of
them (I believe).
 
I run probley more meteorite auctions on eBay
then anyone.  I will not put any statement in my auctions telling
bidders to only buy from IMCA members.  For several reasons. 
One that comes to my head is I do not agree with all the members on their
choice of ethics.  
 
Me and you (Blood) have both had problems with
one member that has still not sent me a refund promised even in an e-mail
to the list (Brad Sampson).  (Yes Brad I understand, you lost my
address the 8th time I sent it to you and you cant find my e-mail and
couldnt find me in the meteorite-list archives).  
 
The IMCA from my understanding...as a
member...only promises the meteorite is real.  So I have no problem
with others "ethnics"the moment this changes I will have to
see if this is a membership I wish to be a part of.  
 
Mark Bostick "The Big
Collector"

To List Members,
Mark, and some others, makes several very good points here that I
support.  Organizations such as the IMCA (Yes...I am  a member)
make progress in baby steps, not giant ones.  Whenever human beings
are involved, there will always be exceptions, rogues, and self-promoting
individuals in every well meaning group.  Moreover, just because
someone doesn't belong to "the group" shouldn't make them a
target of suspicion.  Progress in a positive direction takes time
and requires patience - there is no "quick fix" for the
problems that ail society in general and our group specifically.  In
a Utopian world, all items sold on Ebay and the Internet would be
legitimate and ethical.  Until we reach that higher standard, we
should expect, though not condone, the frailties of ignorant and devious
seller alike.

What we can do is to make sure that those of us with knowledge conduct
our personal business in a forthright and fair manner.  Eventually,
the problem will correct itself.  Until then, expect problems along
the way from self centered people.

Sometimes the best and most memorable education a person can receive is
at the hand of a con man.  We as a group - a group of meteorite
collectors and dealers, are not responsible to protest every prospective
meteorite buyer from being burned.  The education and experience
that can be gained from "being taken" will only enlighten those
that are quick to bid on an auction item without doing their
homework.  I am not a baby sitter to everyone that bids on
meteorites on Ebay - nor are the rest of you.  If you want to
champion a truely improtant cause with your time, take on something more
noble like feeding the hungry or housing the homeless.


Off My Soapbox,

John Gwilliam


John Gwilliam Meteorites
PO Box 26854
Tempe  AZ  85285
http://www.meteoriteimpact.com

Re: [meteorite-list] Re - Warning Virus

[John Gwilliam]

At 10:42 PM 5/16/02 -0700, Steven Drummond wrote:
 I Want to
thank the list for this information on the virus , I cant remember who
exactly but I do remember something was said about "A powerful
tool" .
  Tonight I received an email from 
" lukeandkim"  The subject matter was "A
Powerful Tool"   Since I do not
know who lukeandkim are and I remembered the subject line " A
Powerful Tool " I removed this email before it had a chance to do
any harm. Thanks Again !   
   
Steven Drummond "The Unknown Collector" :-)
    

This current virus is a lot more destructive and clandestine than most
folks would like to think.  Rather than go into too many details
here, go to the website below and follow the links to the Win32/Klez.H@mm
virus alert.  There is great info here.  This nasty little
bugger even has it's own email engine!

<http://www.ravantivirus.com/>

Good Luck to all,

John Gwilliam
John Gwilliam Meteorites
PO Box 26854
Tempe  AZ  85285
http://www.meteoriteimpact.com

Re: [meteorite-list] WARNING VIRUS ALERT - more info

[John Gwilliam]

Morning Jim and list,
I know it is list policy to not send info about viruses, but this is a
very sneaky virus that you need to be warned about.  I received four
different copies of it with different subject titles. Norton anti-virus
(updated 5/6/02) didn't detect one of them.  The attachment was
named <<<>>>.  I even scanned it
in Windows explorer and Norton said it was clean.  Later in the day,
I received a 4th copy of it that Norton did catch on the way in.

Following are the four different subject lines in came under:

Worm Klez.E immunity
Rights Reserved
A very new game
Tickets

It has the ability to put whatever address it wants in the
"From" line while the original infected email address is listed
as "Sender".

I use Eudora Pro.

Don't open or preview ANY attachments and update your anti-virus program
every few days for a while.

Best,

John Gwilliam


At 02:19 AM 5/15/04 -0700, you wrote:
Hello All,
 
    After becoming infected 2 days ago from a list member
& losing 6 months of e-mails & other assorted data now I have
received the same virus from the following address
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 
Below is the name of the virus & the name of the file. The strange
thing is that I received it from the list address on an e-mail address
that has never been used on the list.
 
Jim
James Hartman
 
 
Date: 5/13/04, Time: 22:28:58, 
Virus scanning completed.
Items scanned:  C:-D: 
Date: 5/14/04, Time: 8:12:54, 
Virus scanning completed.
Items scanned:  C:-D: 
Date: 5/15/04, Time: 2:01:24, 
The file
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\Winkpj.exe
is infected with the W32.Klez.H@mm virus.
Unable to repair this file.
Date: 5/15/04, Time: 2:01:32, 
The file
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\Winkpj.exe
was infected with the W32.Klez.H@mm virus.
The file was quarantined.
____
 
IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved -
Click
Here 

John Gwilliam Meteorites
PO Box 26854
Tempe  AZ  85285
http://www.meteoriteimpact.com

Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites that fell into the water

[John Gwilliam]

A large piece of the Marjalahti pallasite was witnessed to fall into a 
lake.  Vladimir Stepakov, Ivan Koutyrev's partner, nearly drown while 
searching for this one.

Also, weren't several pieces of the Estherville mesosiderite seen to fall 
into a lake near a couple of boys?

Regards,

John Gwilliam

At 12:58 PM 5/4/02 +0200, Bernd Pauli HD wrote:
>Hello Serguei and List,
>
>The most famous meteorite that fell into a pond or a stock tank is, of
>course, Pena Blanca Spring. See detailed description in Joel Schiff's
>METEORITE magazine: Meteorite! (May 2000, Vol. 6, No. 2, pp. 36-38).
>
>Some of the Siena stones have also been reported to have fallen into
>a pond: "Two astonished English ladies saw stones fall into a pond
>and splash out water that appeared to boil." The government had the
>pond drained and actually recovered some Siena stones [MARVIN
>U.B. (1996) E.F. Chladni (1756-1827) and the origins of modern
>meteorite research (Meteoritics 31-5, 1996, 558-561)].
>
>Several Chinga specimens were found in the Chinga River basin. And
>there is the Djati-Pengilon H6 chondrite which fell into the Alastoeva
>river.
>
>Another celebrity is the Grosnaja CV3 chondrite. A shower of stones
>fell, after detonations, but only 1 of about 3.5 kg was recovered as
>the rest fell into the river Terek.
>
>Monte Milone, L5, brecciated: After detonations, many stones fell
>(some in the river Potenza) 8 miles from Macerata, Italy.
>
>Seymchan, a IIE iron of 272.3 kg was found in the bed of a stream
>flowing into the river Hekandue, a tributary of the Jasachnaja.
>
>Shirahagi, IVA, mass of 22.7 kg was found in the bed of the Kamiichi-
>kawa river. Saotome, which is structurally similar, was found in the
>same river 2 years later.
>
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Bernd
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Closest meteorite

[John Gwilliam]

At 11:33 PM 5/2/02 -0700, Robert Verish wrote:
>[meteorite-list] Closest meteorite
>
>Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Thu, 2 May 2002 21:39:21 -0700
>
>I would like to nominate Skip Wilson, and Gale
>Newbury. Skip lives about 100 yards from the closest
>Portales Valley piece to his house, and Gale Newbury
>had one fall through his barn roof. It dont get much
>closer than that.
>Mike
>---
>
>I would like to "second" that nomination!
>
>In the case of Skip Wilson, what are the "astonomical"
>odds that a meteorite would fall so close to a person
>who has traveled so far and who has "walked up to so
>many meteorites".
>
>It staggers the imagination.
>
>Bob Verish
>
I would guess it would be about the same astronomical odds
as finding one in your side yard...;-)

John Gwilliam



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Re: [Fwd: [meteorite-list] Whitestone township/patent bucket

[John Gwilliam]

y seems to have been crushed into
> >  the earth
> >  > beneath the terrific aerolite, which was about the size of
> >  a common
> >  > patent bucket, and apparently of a rough, round shape. It
> >  appeared to be
> >  > formed of what is called iron pyrites.
> >  >
> > 
> ___
> >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > Alan
> >  > --
> >  > Alan Pickup / COSPAR 2707:  55.8968N   3.1989W   +208m
> >  (WGS84 datum)
> >  > Edinburgh  / SatEvo & elsets:
> >  http://www.wingar.demon.co.uk/satevo/
> >  > Scotland  / Decay Watch:
> >  http://www.wingar.demon.co.uk/satevo/dkwatch/
> >  >   *
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > __
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> >
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Re: [meteorite-list] What could this be - part 2

[John Gwilliam]

I agree with Rob and the others that think it's hematite... and it will not 
respond to a magnet.  A streak test should come out red if it is hematite.

At 03:59 PM 4/20/02 -0700, Matson, Robert wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>It looks exactly like hematite to me.  I'll venture that
>it is completely non-magnetic... --Rob
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Beanies and Meteorites

[John Gwilliam]

This isn't the first time a meteorite has been sold in a package deal with 
a beanie baby on Ebay.  Some of you may remember one of our list members 
selling a Vaca Muerta specimen along with a beanie baby cow a couple of 
years ago.  I can't remember who the seller was, but I do remember the 
highest bidder.

Regards,

John


At 11:50 PM 4/19/02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  Beanie Baby's and meteorites...my nine year old collects BOTH! GREAT
>IDEA Mark! Neat!
>ANYTHING that will pique the interest, especially for younsters, is just
>wonderful!
>Now granted, my son does not search ebay alone...but he DOES make me show
>him whats on there...and had he saw it, he would have MADE me buy one...even
>though I have several hundred kilo's right here that he gets into
>constantly...not to mention he is after me to get him over to Al and Iris
>Langs, so he can "shake down" Al for some new material! Al takes him back to
>the fossil quarry, and they have a blast!
>Too bad there is not a Eurypterid Beanie...Al and my son would both want
>one!
>I think you are "on to something" here!
> Keep up the good work Mark...and hope all is well!
> Best regards; Jake
>
>Jake Delgaudio
>The Nature Source
>Meteorites & Fossils
>Queensbury, NY 12804
>Member: The Meteoritical Society
>Member: AAPS/American Association of Paleontological Suppliers
>Member: International Meteorite Collectors Association #4262
>webiste: www.nature-source.com
>phone: 518-761-6702
>Fax: 518-798-9107
>email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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[meteorite-list] Change in my ISP

[John Gwilliam]

Hello All,
After several months of poor service with my previous ISP, I have made a 
change.

Please not that my new email address is:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

regards,

John Gwilliam
John Gwilliam Meteorites
PO Box 26854
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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: meteorite pronunciation

[John Gwilliam]

At 09:26 PM 4/4/02 -0500, Bob Martino wrote:
>There is a web site which teaches one how to pronounce star names.  It
>spells the name out, gives the phonetic spelling, and if you click on the
>little button you'll hear a nice female voice actually say the name a
>couple of times.
>
>Something like this could be done with meteorite names.  That someone would
>not be me, of course, as my tech skills are limited and my voice not sexy
>enough.

I nominate Anne Black.  She has a very impressive voice.

John

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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Meteorite hunt

[John Gwilliam]

There is hope for you Mike...just swap the teacher/student role
with Kim and you should do nicely.

It is amazing that meteorites continue to come off of Roach Dry
Lake.  It has been pounded hard by the Gesslers, John Blennert and
I, and countless others.  

Regards,

John  

At 11:57 PM 4/3/02 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi All 
I recently had the opportunity to travel to Las Vegas for a convention.
Fortunately I had some extra time and was able meet up with a collecting
friend of mine who lives in Las Vegas. Some of you might have met him in
Tucson. His name is Kim Cathcart. 
At the Tucson 2001 show I introduced him to meteorites and he instantly
became a fan. I decided to go out in April 2001 and "teach" him
how to find meteorites on the dry lake beds in Nevada. We searched hard
for two days but came up empty handed. He asked me how he would know when
he found a meteorite and I simply told him he would "just
know". A couple of weeks later he called me up rather excited and
said he had found not one but 5! separate fragments weighing 50-60 grams
over an area of about 250' by 400' on Roach Lake on the Nevada/California
border. I believe they are all probably pieces of Primm. 
Of course I was quite excited and maybe even a little proud of the fact
that my "pupil" was ready to graduate. I was the one who
received the graduation present as he sent me one piece to keep. He did
eventually find another piece weighing 7.97g of a meteorite from Roach
Lake that I was only able to identify after cutting. This might be a new
one but we are not sure just yet. 
As I mentioned at the beginning I had another opportunity to
"show" him how to hunt meteorites. The first day we went up to
a lake by Rachel Nevada which is on the Extraterrestrial Highway near
Area 51. No, we didn't see anything unusual nor did we find any
meteorites. 
The next day we went to his favorite spot Roach Lake. He showed me where
he had found the 7.97g piece this year as well as the fragments he found
last year. We hunted in these areas but came up empty handed. We decided
to search in another area that was full of black basalt. I was getting
somewhat discouraged as there were literally thousands of little black
rocks. Kim then called me over and said he wanted to show me something.
Of course it was meteorite. I suddenly realized that I must be an amazing
teacher as this was his 7th meteorite in less than a year! This time I
don't even get a consolation prize as it is too beautiful to cut. 
The piece probably weighs 90-100 grams (Kim doesn't have a scale yet)
with 90% fusion crust. I would guess it is a weather grade 1-2 but
still has fairly dark fusion crust. It looks oriented but probably isn't.

I guess I probably should mention that I have never found a single
meteorite. So I have decided to change my title to consultant. After all
I can tell you what do but I just can't do it myself (my wife was a
consultant:) ). Oh well I guess I now know what they mean by "always
a bridesmaid and never a bride". 
I have uploaded some pictures of Kim's most recent find to our to our
website. I hope you enjoy them as much as I do. 

Coolstuff 

<http://jensenmeteorites.com/coolstuff.htm>


Mike 

Mike Jensen 
Bill Jensen 
Jensen Meteorites 
16730 E Ada PL 
Aurora, CO 80017-3137 
303-337-4361 
Web Site:
www.jensenmeteorites.com

Jensen Meteorites 
John Gwilliam Meteorites
PO Box 26854
Tempe  AZ  85285
http://www.meteoriteimpact.com

[meteorite-list] Meteorite Pronunciation Guide

[John Gwilliam]

After following this thread for just one evening, it is evident that most 
of use pronounce meteorite names incorrectly.

It looks to me like an opportunity for another O. Richard Norton 
book...;-)

Night all,

John
John Gwilliam Meteorites
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RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite pronunciation

[John Gwilliam]

I believe La Criolla holds to the same Spanish pronunciation as Allende
with the "ll" sound of "ye" or "ya".La
- cree - o - yaw.  This is assuming the name place is a Spanish name
and not Portuguese.

As for Mbale, I have a friend from that part of Africa and his last name
is Ncube.  He pronounces it  "new - bay". 
If  the same pronunciation conventions applies to Mbale, then it
would sound like "ma - lay".

Rob Elliott's "Leighlinbridge" isn't pronounced the way it
looks.  I believe it is pronounced "lock - lynn -
bridge".  Rob can clarify this one.

Go figure.

At least I know how to pronounce most of the Arizona meteorites. 
How far off can you be with "Cat Mountain"?

John

At 07:38 PM 4/3/02 -0700, Matt Morgan wrote:
How
about La Criolla? I heard from Eduardo (meteorites.com) say it like
"La Crioche". Is that correct or was my hearing messed? Same
with Mocs, Gero Kurat from Vienna said "Mocsh". Werid to
me.
Matt

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite pronunciation


In a message dated 4/3/2002 2:33:12 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 




> I mean, how DO you say "Gao Guenie"buggered if I
know! 


I assume Gao rhymes with Tao.  Guenie?  You've got me. 
Rhymes with Benny?  --Rob 


You got that one right! 


Gao like Tao,  Guenie like  Gwen - Knee 
Now who wants to try "Orgueil"  or
"L'Aigle"  or "Tafassasset" ? 




Anne Black 
IMCA #2356 
www.IMPACTIKA.com 
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

John Gwilliam Meteorites
PO Box 26854
Tempe  AZ  85285
http://www.meteoriteimpact.com

[meteorite-list] Mike Farmer and Bensour

[John Gwilliam]

Like so many others on the List, I also received some outstanding Bensour 
specimens from Mike recently.  Hopefully, he'll get around to posting some 
pictures of his latest adventure (if he hasn't done so already).  The 
stories and the pictures of these trips are a very important part of the 
overall meteorite collecting experience for me.  My favorite picture in my 
scrapbook is of Mike sitting on his haunches in front of the Ourique crater 
in Portugal.

Thanks Mike!

Best Regards,

John Gwilliam
John Gwilliam Meteorites
PO Box 26854
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Re: [meteorite-list] Can pigeons be intermediate source for meteorites? DELETE PLEASE!

[John Gwilliam]

Dear Dave,
I think you should follow through on your idea and let us all know what the 
results are.  There are literally tons of pigeon dropping in the palm trees 
and on the flat roofs of buildings in the Phoenix area. In fact, there are 
quite a few on the roof of my own house. Come on down and collect all you 
want.  I'll put you up in the guest room and even sell you one of my 
MagCanes at a 10% discount...but you'll have to process your doo-doo 
off premises..;-)



John

At 07:51 PM 3/29/02 -0700, David Freeman wrote:
>Dear List;
>If a bunch of  city pigeons were eating the tiny stones from old roofing 
>paper on a roof, and were also eating micro meteorites as a source for 
>gastroliths, would they deposit micro meteorite bird do-do on the roofs of 
>buildings to be blown  down on unsuspecting passers by that carry magnets 
>around?
>Could the Holbrook bunny-turd testers judge pigeon do-do too?  Maybe a new 
>classification for meteorites...ones manufactured (conglomerated) by birds...
>Skeptical pigeon,
>Dave F.
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] My first meteorite find!!

[John Gwilliam]

Juris,
Congratulations on your first find.  My good buddy Dave Andrews knows the 
Holbrook strewn field better than anyone else I know or have heard of.  In 
addition, He's a wealth of information about the historical aspects of 
Holbrook and it's meteorite.  Hopefully, you got to enjoy a few hours at 
the "Empty Pockets" with Dave as well.

Now if Dave would just get busy and show me where to find the rest of 
Clover Springs, I'd be happy;-)

Cheers,

John

At 06:12 PM 3/28/02 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>http://nadurra.net/HolbrookA.jpg

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