from:"CNJPALMER"

 
Jen
I am a 16 year teaching veteran. I refer to them all the time!
Jennifer
In a message dated 6/24/2009 9:25:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
gradeagr...@gmail.com writes:

Hi all!  I am a student taking a literacy course and have taught 5th grade.
We have  just finished Cunningham & Debbie Miller's book. While it  seems
practical, how many of you actually refer back to these texts in  your
career? Thx. Jen


 
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Re: [MOSAIC] What is the best reading program?

Lisa
Thanks for the reminder...even the moderator needs that from time to time! 
Let's see if we can move back into more discussions about comprehension. 
Jennifer





I know this is a comprehension list, but it makes sense that you might post 
this 
here since there are so many highly qualified, experienced, and intelligent 
reading specialists participating on this list.  Generally, when we have 
off-topic requests, we let people know they are off-topic and then ask people 
to 
reply off-list. :o)

Hopefully somebody has something helpful to offer you!

Best wishes,
Lisa 
3/IL


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Re: [MOSAIC] What is the best reading program?

Sure. I don't like the emphasis on nonsense words which I think confuses kids 
and makes them over-rely on the visual cue system over other cue systems. I 
don't like that you cannot move on in the program unless the child masters the 
skills... There is not an alternate lesson...you keep repeating the same lesson 
over and over until they get it. And I worry that kids that struggle will be 
turned off even more.?The pace is too slow and the trainer told me that it 
might take two years to see a child become a reader.? I can do better than that 
without this program. And finally, the trainer shared research about Wilson 
with us and I actually knew the research she was quoting... and she misquoted 
it, badly. I lost faith in the program from that moment.
Jennifer


> Problem is, I am not a 'program girl' in the end. I didn't use it with any 
students last year and have no intention of using it next year.
can I ask why you didn't use it?

Kelly Schofield, Principal
Dana  School
690 Ridge Road
Hendersonville,NC 28792




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Re: [MOSAIC] IRA conversion chart with wpm & writing, Running Record/Reading Level





There are many reasons why you will get discrepancies between tests. Here are a 
few:
1. Assessments given on different days are but a snapshot. Kids can be sick on 
one day, or distracted.
2. Some kids comprehend better when they read aloud...others when they read to 
themselves. For example, second graders may not have transitioned to silent 
reading yet and fail to comprehend when they read silently. Kids who are afraid 
of making mistakes may do better when reading silently since they are avoiding 
performance anxiety. Some auditory learners need to hear what they are reading 
aloud to understand it.
3. The percentage of nonfiction in each assessment you are comparing. Some 
children have different reading levels in fiction and nonfiction...many, for 
example, lack experience in nonfiction text structures and therefore fail to 
comprehend it.
4.How long was the text in each assessment? Some kids have trouble sustaining 
comprehension through longer texts. 
5. Did the child have to come up with an answer to a?comprehension question or 
could he choose from several multiple choice responses? Multiple choice tests 
tend to overestimate reading ability slightly because of the "guessing" factor
6. Did the child have to answer a question or retell? Some kids do better with 
one or the other.
7. How interesting or motivating was the text in each assessment? Kids do 
better when they are interested in what they are reading?
8. Have the tests been checked for bias? Some kids who lack background 
knowledge of traditional middle class experiences are sometimes at a 
disadvantage in some assessments
9. What were the purposes for each assessment? Sometimes we misuse assessments 
as a way of determining reading level when they are really meant to assess 
isolated skills. An example...reading tests that give word lists and then a 
reading level without looking at comprehension

Jennifer


-Original Message-
From: hccarl...@comcast.net
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2009 2:12 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] IRA conversion chart with wpm & writing, Running 
Record/Reading Level



We used these also, but there is still discrepancy when teachers use the 
different assessments. 

Carol 


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Re: [MOSAIC] Running Record/Reading Level Question(s)

Jane
Sure. It has been a while and I hope I remember accurately... those of you who 
use DRA, pipe up if you see I mischaracterize the DRA. We thought the text was 
more interesting and better quality in F and P. We liked the idea of 
comprehension conversations scored with a rubric rather than firing questions 
at kids or asking for a retelling. It seemed to mirror what we want to be going 
on in classrooms and was a more natural way to assess comprehension. We liked 
the?optional writing piece?(or drawing in the early levels) as a way to get 
at?understanding of text in a different way.?We liked the additional resources 
that came with the kits...an example- a guide for teachers that shows what the 
characteristics of kids are at particular levels and what teaching next steps 
might be. There are great staff development videos that teachers can watch to 
learn how to use the kit. There are dozens and dozens of different 
supplementary assessements like phonemic awareness, sight words, vocabulary 
knowledge etc etc.? It has a calculator which is a timer. You press a button 
when a child starts reading and then one when she stops. Enter the running 
words, number of errors and self corrections and the calculator will spit out 
percentages, self correction rates and words correct per minute.
And... if I remember correctly, it is cheaper.
Jennifer






Jennifer, Can you compare the Fountas and Pinnell  kit to DRA2?  
Thanks!  Jane in SC  :-)  (The state with the  runaway Governor!)
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Re: [MOSAIC] What is the best reading program?





Sure, Lori.
My district trained me in Wilson. (It was the most painful three days I have 
ever been through.) If I were to use the program and have a certifed trainer 
observe me using it effectively I could become certified as a Wilson teacher. 
Problem is, I am not a 'program girl' in the end. I didn't use it with any 
students last year and have no intention of using it next year.
Jennifer


-Original Message-
From: Ljackson 
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 

Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2009 8:52 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] What is the best reading program?



I had no idea you could become certified in a program.



Lori Jackson
 District Literacy Coach and Mentor
 Todd County School District
 Box 87
 Mission SD 5755

- Original message -
From: Lisa Singer 
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009  8:23 PM
Subject: [MOSAIC] What is the best reading program?

> My name is Lisa. I am finishing my masters in special education at 
Manhattanville College. I want to become certified in a reading program and I 
was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for me. I was told that Orton 
Gillingham or Wilson are the best. What do you think?
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 


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Re: [MOSAIC] Professional Learning Communities

 
I guess planning is one way you could do a PLC...but I think you lose the  
inquiry when you do it this way. 
We let the teachers generate questions of interest related mainly to  
students...we look at student data and research ways to improve learning. 
There must be lots of ways to do PLC.
Jennifer
 
In a message dated 6/24/2009 6:57:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
mrsjro...@aol.com writes:

I am  moving to a new grade level in the same school and my new team is   
piloting PLC's in our building. From my understanding, this is the way it  
will  
work. Our team consists of 5 teachers. One each language arts,  math, 
science,  social studies and 1 special education teacher (me).  Our team 
leader, 
the  science teacher, has had some training in  structuring the PLC's so 
this 
is what  from my understanding is to  take place. Prior to the beginning of 
school, we are  to have our  curriculum maps broken down into basically 
three 
week blocks. The   first three weeks will primarily be procedures and 
content 
review. So at  the  beginning of the year. we will be meeting daily for a 
while to  start with  planning our second three week block. We will bring 
our  
materials, activities,  assessments and everything we plan to use to  the 
table 
and then the five of us  will work together to evaluate,  make 
recommendations, and support each other as  we develop every  thing for 
this second 3 week 
block. There is a framework from  which  we work - don't have mine yet but 
I 
am trying to obtain information  about  it.So basically while we are 
teaching one three week block we  will be in the  planning and refining for 
the next 
three week block.  Does this explanation make  sense? Jennifer and others - 
does this  sound familiar?

June
Grade 7 Language Arts / Special Needs  KY




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Re: [MOSAIC] Running Record/Reading Level Question(s)

 
Lois
Our district assessment committee looked at all the available running  
record kits last summer and decided that Fountas and Pinnell was the best of 
the 
 group...more tools for less money...we also liked how there was fiction 
and  non-fiction in each level.
Jennifer
In a message dated 6/24/2009 5:54:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
lmad...@edu.pe.ca writes:

Fountas  and Pinnell have a wonderful assessment kit.  The first one is
for K -  2, and then there is one for 3 - 8.  We had been using the  PM
Benchmark kits, but our teachers love the F&P kits because they give  a
more comprehensive picture.  Some of our teachers even use  the
assessments for reporting to parents, and we have gotten good  feedback
from this.  Our District is now trying to purchase these kits  for
teachers as the response has been so good.  The District is  looking to
provide training for a couple of teachers in each school on  these kits
and they will become the 'resident experts' for each  school.  Our school
had already purchased 2 kits for each level, so we  have been using them
for a couple of years.  They do provide a very  comprehensive picture of
student growth which our teachers  like.
Lois


 
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Re: [MOSAIC] Running Record/Reading Level Question(s)

 
Hi
I think that the first question you have to get an answer for, Angela, is  
what is the purpose for taking running records? Are you finding appropriate  
reading levels for instruction? If your school is using it in a formative 
way,  then it doesn't really matter what leveling system is being used. 
 
Are you trying to monitor student progress? Are you trying to see if kids  
are reading on grade level? Are you benchmarking progress? Then you do need  
some consistency... it ought to be a discussion first at each grade level  
and then at the school level...what do we expect from our kids at each  
grade? How do our expectations meld across the grades?
 
My personal belief is that running records are best used for formative  
assessment purposes. You can use them to see approximately where the  
instructional level is for each kid...but I would argue, more importantly, you  
can 
watch to see how the child processes text. Does he read for meaning? Are the  
miscues visual or meaning based? Is he attending to punctuation? Phrasing  
properly? Self-correcting?  Knowing these kinds of things help you teach  
that child in a more deliberate way.
Jennifer
 
In a message dated 6/23/2009 9:53:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
angela_alm...@scs.k12.nc.us writes:

I guess  my questions are:  Is it normal for schools to be so haphazard
with  what assessment they are using?  What (if they exist) are  standard
expected levels for each grade?  I am unfamiliar with DRA but  the DRA kit
that fifth grade uses has Level 24, 28, 34, 38, 40, 50, 60, 70,  and 80. 
What about the in-between levels?  Our North Carolina  End-Of-Grade tests
are lexiled.  Shouldn't the levels we expect our  kids to be reading at
match the state tests?




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Re: [MOSAIC] Professional Learning Communities

2009-06-23 Thread CNJPALMER

June
We have had successful implementation of PLCs in my school. They are formed
in grade levels with a member of the school's instructional leadership
team as facilitator. The facilitator begins each year by helping each team
establish ground rules. Then, on a half-size chart tablet the team lists
questions or concerns related to students or instruction. The facilitator
tries
to help the team decide upon one question they want to research. THe team
decides upon how they will work to resolve their question...it could be
outside reading, bringing in an outside person as a resource...Each team is
required to keep a chart tablet with minutes from each session and they meet
every two weeks for 45 minute sessions. The tablet is used not only to keep
the PLC focused, but as a way of sharing what is going in with other grade
levels.
Jennifer
In a message dated 6/19/2009 7:31:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mrsjro...@aol.com writes:

I know that some of you have been involved in PLC's in the past. Would you

share your experiences? I am moving grade levels next year and the team
that I am joining is piloting PLC's in our building - maybe the district
- not
sure about that. I am trying to learning as much as I can before we
return
to school.

Thanks,

June

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Re: [MOSAIC] Professionalism

2009-06-18 Thread CNJPALMER

 
50-70 percent for me. I am lucky.
Jennifer
In a message dated 6/18/2009 9:00:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
zeal4learn...@gmail.com writes:

Hello  everyone,
I have a side question for everyone. I know that at every school  you can
find at least one more more teachers that say come the end of the  year that
they are not going to have anything to do with teaching all  summer. I am
really curious as to how many teachers in your school, to your  knowledge,
actually take it upon themselves to do their own professional  development.
This can be in the form of reading, classes, or  workshops.

What percentage of teachers at your school actually do  this?

Thanks,
Stephanie

3rd/CA


 
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Re: [MOSAIC] PLEASE HELP! 4th grade poetry

2009-06-17 Thread CNJPALMER

 
You must get "Baseball, Snakes and Summer Squash" by Donald Graves. Even  
some of my 'toughest' boys loved the poems in it.
Jennifer
In a message dated 6/16/2009 11:43:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
nasn...@hotmail.com writes:

I will  be a 4th grade teacher and I know I have to teach poetry or 
something related  to it. What books can help me with poetry? I want something 
fun 
for my kids!  Thanks so much.


 
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Re: [MOSAIC] TRENDS and ISSUES In Literacy Pedagogy

2009-06-16 Thread CNJPALMER

 
Academic vocabulary.
Jennifer
In a message dated 6/16/2009 7:03:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
drmarinac...@aol.com writes:

Can  anyone think of the most recent trends and key issues in reading 
pedagogy  



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Re: [MOSAIC] Lori's story-was Do we really need to teach explicitstrategies

2009-06-14 Thread CNJPALMER

Lori
My heart goes out to you and your son. He is lucky he has such an advocate
in you. I work in an elementary school with children like your son every
day.

We as a profession need to work to help our colleagues understand that we
are teaching children, not a curriculum and that it is our JOB to make
learning accessible to all. If children fail to learn, it is our
responsibility
to find a way to get that done.

Have you read Richard Gentry's work on spelling? It would help you and
your son understand the wiring in his brain that affects his ability to write.
Jennifer

In a message dated 6/14/2009 9:48:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ljack...@gwtc.net writes:

My youngest son is a brilliant thinker, a real outside the box kind of
kid, but he reads slowly (with great understanding) and struggles with
handwriting and spelling. This year, as an eight grader, we began noticing
that
he was struggling to correctly copy mathematical equations. He would err in
the transcription, not in the solution, and then correctly solve an
incorrect problem. He had a great year in language arts, but my husband was
his
teacher and believes that when laptops are available to students, they
should all have the opportunity/choice to use them for drafting to publishing.

Unlike his previous middle school language arts teachers, one in
particular, who harped on him constantly about neatness, letter formation and
spelling, his dad grades all kids journals for thinking. Even with the
support of
word processing, we both saw Isaac struggle with spelling of even simple
words and began to push for evaluation in February. Sadly, because he is a
brilliant kid who still scores well on the standardized tests by local
standards, we met with resistance. I could point to the decline in his test
scores but since they were high in comparison to our general population, we
ere dismissed. His math instructor was quick to label him lazy and a behavior
problem (something we have discovered she does with any child who is
struggling) and he was pretty quick to let her know she was an idot (which she
is not, but she was a non-certified, math phobic person assigned to proctor
a poorly designed distance learning class and is does appear she pretty
much hates boys). I ended up having to threaten to call the State Department
of Education and file a complaint before they finally decided to test him.
He did not qualify for services BUT was clinically diagnosed as dyslexic
with a specific focus on dysgraphia. In other words, he could spell and
visualize words correctly but then scramble them when asked to write the same
thing. He cannot transcribe information well, makes reversals and
transpositions that impact meaning. He is not lazy, he CANNOT do this due to
a
specific processing disorder. I had met someone about about a year ago with a
son with the same diagnosis and as she described her son to me, along with
the fight it took to get him services, she could have been talking about
my son.

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Re: [MOSAIC] Do we really need to teach explicit strategies?

2009-06-14 Thread CNJPALMER

 
Sally
Can you email it to Keith and he can put it on the Tools page?
Jennifer
In a message dated 6/14/2009 1:08:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
sally.thom...@verizon.net writes:

I have  Roger Farr's presentation and maybe we could post it if others  want
it.  I too used his presentation and I taught all the  strategies
simultaneously.  And had kids apply them in reading logs  (the split page
type with quotes from the text on one side and responses -  using the
strategies on the other.)  this was pre stickie  notes!!!  And the 
strategies
weren't the exact 8 that Keene et al use  but they were all there.


 
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Re: [MOSAIC] Do we really need to teach explicit strategies?

2009-06-14 Thread CNJPALMER

 
Elisa
I have it also. I would be up to a discussionbut I have too much going  
on to lead it this year. Anyone else?
Jennifer
In a message dated 6/13/2009 11:43:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca writes:

This  book is in my to read pile.  Anyone up for reading and discussing it 
this  summer??
Elisa


 
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Re: [MOSAIC] Do we really need to teach explicit strategies?

 
Renee
I do agree with this...I think naming it is crucial...but I would also say  
that we need to also connect back to the purpose of  
reading...understanding.  "So, Johnny, when you said that you thought  __, 
you were making a 
connection. What do you think that you understand now  that you didn't 
understand before?" 
Jennifer
 
In a message dated 6/13/2009 7:09:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
phoenix...@sbcglobal.net writes:

I think  it is AFTER they do it that you give it a name, not 
before. But that's  just me.

Renee




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Re: [MOSAIC] Do we really need to teach explicit strategies?

 
Renee
As I said this morning, I think our interpretation of posts and  
understanding of strategy teaching depends heavily on our context. I work all  
day 
with struggling readers many of whom need a lot of explicit instruction...so  
that's often the place I start...but it isn't all that I do. I am moving more 
 and more to a constructivist approach when I can. 
 
I am very interested in your comment about kids getting into that place  
where they can't function without modeling. Can you talk a little more about  
that idea for me? I tend to think that my kids ALREADY come to me like  
that...even the K kids. Maybe what we need to model is independent thought and  
problem solving.
Jennifer
 
In a message dated 6/13/2009 7:07:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
phoenix...@sbcglobal.net writes:

I agree  that some kids need explicit instruction. I just think the  
explicit  instruction should come after, not before, a more  
discovery-based  approach. That doesn't mean that I always adhere to  
that philosophy,  and in fact I think modeling is very important in some  
situations.  It's just that I am very wary of showing kids so much what  
to do  that they get into a place where they can't function unless  
somebody  models for them first.

I'm just  sayin'
Renee




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Re: [MOSAIC] Do we really need to teach explicit strategies?

I also agree. This is one of the big points I got from Ellin's book To  
Understand. By asking kids what the strategy helped them to understand about 
the  book, we send the message that the strategies are a vehicle, not the end  
point. 

One other thing that crossed my mind is this thought: What if we want more  
for kids than just an ability to discuss and comprehend texts? What  if, as 
Ellin writes in To Understand, we want kids to also have an  opportunity to 
be scholarly...to understand more deeply how their own mind  works? There 
is a joy I find in deep intellectual engagement (like this  discussion!). :-) 
 What if we need to give our kids that are the  stronger readers  the 
strategy language and then help them to see  HOW their mind comes to comprehend 
in order to give them the chance to learn the  joys of being scholarly? It 
isn't that I don't value  independent reading and student led discussion. It 
is important...and may  even be of primary importance. I just have this 
nagging feeling that maybe there  is more we can ask of these kids.

I haven't thought all of this through yet...and maybe I am way off  base. I 
would welcome everyone's input.
Jennifer
 In a message dated 6/13/2009 1:05:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
pkima...@earthlink.net writes:

I know  that your statement is so true.  Most of my students first   
learn to say I have a connection.  Which I really appreciate,  because  
this is an easy way to help them see how having a connection  helps  
them to understand what they read. Last year I had a child who  had  
visited a reservation, his sharing of his connections helped us  all to  
understand the story we were reading about a  reservation.  A real aha  
moment for my class.
PatK.
On  Jun 13, 2009, at 7:11 AM, mimos...@comcast.net wrote:

> That being  said, if the conversation that the children are having is  
>  centering on their strategies like, “I made a connection,” or “I   
> could visualize this part,” we must push them to explain why  that  
> helped them to understand the story or text. Strategies  serve the  
> reader as a means to understand or deepen  understanding of what we  
> read. So “talking the talk” of  strategies has to be linked to  
> “walking the walk” of  understanding what is being read.
>

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Re: [MOSAIC] Do we really need to teach explicit strategies?

Renee
You bring up an interesting point and one I have been thinking about too.
My first thought was...it depends! Some kids may need explicit
instruction...others will remember and internalize the strategy better if they
discover
it for themselves. Before I read Mosaic or Reading with Meaning, my first
exposure to the teaching of comprehension strategies was though a
presentation by Roger Farr. He had a lesson design where he modeled thinking
during
reading ... but asked the kids to notice and name the strategy themselves.
If you google Roger Farr, I wouldn't be surprised if he still had the Think
Along lessons on his website.

Anyway, when I tried his lessons, they were pretty effective...but not for
everyone. Now I am using more explicit modeling with a gradual release of
responsibility...much like in the Comprehension Toolkit and those lessons
are also pretty effective...but not with everyone.
I wonder how we could combine approaches to hit the needs of more learners.
Interesting thoughts, Renee, as usual!
Jennifer

In a message dated 6/13/2009 10:22:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
phoenix...@sbcglobal.net writes:

While following this discussion, I have begun wondering something.
First, I will say that I have little personal schema for explicitly
teaching the strategies, partly because I've not been teaching in a
regular classroom for the last four years or so. But I am wondering
whether, especially with confident readers, the strategies can be
*taught* largely through the kinds of questions we ask children, so
that they are pushed to use the strategies. For example, in a book
discussion with a child, if we ask, "what did you see in your mind's
eye while you were reading this section" would/could/should inherently
push a child to learn to visualize. I guess I am looking at more of a
natural and constructivist direction. And I am talking especially about
readers who are basically fluent and already have adequate/good
comprehension abilities.

Whatcha think?
Renee

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Re: [MOSAIC] Do we really need to teach explicit strategies?

 
Sally
Please do! I SOOO wanted to go to that but couldn't swing the airfare this  
year. Take good notes and share!
Jennifer
In a message dated 6/13/2009 9:38:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
sally.thom...@verizon.net writes:

I and  several teachers from my school are going to an institute with Harvey
and  Daniels in a few weeks.  Would be glad to share back what we  learn!

Sally




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Re: [MOSAIC] Do we really need to teach explicit strategies?