Re: [NetBehaviour] From Today...
http://www.jwm-art.net
http://www.jwm-art.net
http://www.jwm-art.net
http://www.jwm-art.net
Work of Post-Art in the Age of Generative Reproduction
The flux creates, the corporation permeates. In the trans-gender
hallucination, art objects are deprecations of the imaginations of the
flux -- a flux that uses the corporation as a parallax to enmesh
ideas, patterns, and emotions. With the synergy of the electronic
environment, the flux is superseding a point where it will be free
from the corporation to transcend immersions into the ejaculations of
the delphic hallucination. Work of Post-Art in the Age of Generative
Reproduction contains 10 minimal quicktime engines (also refered to as
memes) that enable the user to make realistic audio/visual
compositions.
measuring chains, constructing realities
putting into place forms
a matrix of illusion and disillusion
a strange attracting force
so that a seduced reality will be able to spontaneously feed on it
James Morris's work investigates the nuances of modulations through
the use of stopframe motion and close-ups which emphasize the
Generative nature of digital media. Morris explores abstract and
quasi-sporadic scenery as motifs to describe the idea of
cyber-intuitive hallucination. Using splendicious loops, cathode rays,
and interactive images as patterns, Morris creates meditative
environments which suggest the expansion of time...
-- Obligatory ascii sig. Repeat until desired cyborg effect is achieved. --
/u[0]{)]|]]-] -/u/u...@#$%^~!@#$%^*())
__++_)(*^%$/u/u...@#$%^~!@#$
%^*())__++_)(*^%$/u/u...@#$ %...@#$%^*())__+, etc., etc.
-- End obligatory ascii sig. --
On 22 October 2010 16:54, dave miller dave.miller...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Curt
This is brilliant!
Do you have a version that generates artist statements?
dave
On 21 October 2010 20:04, Curt Cloninger c...@lab404.com wrote:
cf: http://playdamage.org/manifest-o-matic
I agree with you here - also Olson's on field poetry (forget the exact
title). But it's the heart of absolutism that manifestos also offer that
can be a problem.
- Alan
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010, Edward Picot wrote:
I'm very late coming to this, because I tend to let Netbehaviour posts
pile up and then trawl through them a week or so at a time, but this has
been a very absorbing thread, especially the exchange between Alan and
Curt about significance in art, art-teaching, etc.
I'd just like to say a belated word in defence of manifestos. I'm quite
anti-manifesto personally, in the sense that I don't personally want to
get involved with one, or can't think of one with which I would want to
get involved; but I can see that they sometimes serve their purpose.
Radically new art sometimes has to create the critical framework from
which it should be judged, and manifestos can help with this. Being a
literary sort of person I'm thinking of things like the Imagist
manifesto, George Eliot's lengthy remarks about realism in literature in
Scenes from Clerical Life (or was it Adam Bede?) and Wordsworth and
Coleridge's preface to The Lyrical Ballads, with its plea that poetry
should be written in language really used by men instead of the
highly-artificial diction favoured by the Augustans. Exciting ideas, and
ideas which helped to alter the course of our literature.
- Edward
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Art Portfolio: http://davemiller.org
Art Blog: http://davemiller.org/art_blog
Shop: http://www.etsy.com/shop/visualstories
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-audio/image/text/code
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Re: [NetBehaviour] From Today...
Hi Curt This is brilliant! Do you have a version that generates artist statements? dave On 21 October 2010 20:04, Curt Cloninger c...@lab404.com wrote: cf: http://playdamage.org/manifest-o-matic I agree with you here - also Olson's on field poetry (forget the exact title). But it's the heart of absolutism that manifestos also offer that can be a problem. - Alan On Thu, 21 Oct 2010, Edward Picot wrote: I'm very late coming to this, because I tend to let Netbehaviour posts pile up and then trawl through them a week or so at a time, but this has been a very absorbing thread, especially the exchange between Alan and Curt about significance in art, art-teaching, etc. I'd just like to say a belated word in defence of manifestos. I'm quite anti-manifesto personally, in the sense that I don't personally want to get involved with one, or can't think of one with which I would want to get involved; but I can see that they sometimes serve their purpose. Radically new art sometimes has to create the critical framework from which it should be judged, and manifestos can help with this. Being a literary sort of person I'm thinking of things like the Imagist manifesto, George Eliot's lengthy remarks about realism in literature in Scenes from Clerical Life (or was it Adam Bede?) and Wordsworth and Coleridge's preface to The Lyrical Ballads, with its plea that poetry should be written in language really used by men instead of the highly-artificial diction favoured by the Augustans. Exciting ideas, and ideas which helped to alter the course of our literature. - Edward ___ NetBehaviour mailing list netbehavi...@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- Art Portfolio: http://davemiller.org Art Blog: http://davemiller.org/art_blog Shop: http://www.etsy.com/shop/visualstories ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From Today...
Yes, James found it: http://playdamage.org/market-o-matic/ and don't miss the thrilling copyright information page: http://playdamage.org/market-o-matic/faq.html Hi Curt This is brilliant! Do you have a version that generates artist statements? dave On 21 October 2010 20:04, Curt Cloninger c...@lab404.com wrote: cf: http://playdamage.org/manifest-o-matic I agree with you here - also Olson's on field poetry (forget the exact title). But it's the heart of absolutism that manifestos also offer that can be a problem. - Alan On Thu, 21 Oct 2010, Edward Picot wrote: I'm very late coming to this, because I tend to let Netbehaviour posts pile up and then trawl through them a week or so at a time, but this has been a very absorbing thread, especially the exchange between Alan and Curt about significance in art, art-teaching, etc. I'd just like to say a belated word in defence of manifestos. I'm quite anti-manifesto personally, in the sense that I don't personally want to get involved with one, or can't think of one with which I would want to get involved; but I can see that they sometimes serve their purpose. Radically new art sometimes has to create the critical framework from which it should be judged, and manifestos can help with this. Being a literary sort of person I'm thinking of things like the Imagist manifesto, George Eliot's lengthy remarks about realism in literature in Scenes from Clerical Life (or was it Adam Bede?) and Wordsworth and Coleridge's preface to The Lyrical Ballads, with its plea that poetry should be written in language really used by men instead of the highly-artificial diction favoured by the Augustans. Exciting ideas, and ideas which helped to alter the course of our literature. - Edward ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- Art Portfolio: http://davemiller.org Art Blog: http://davemiller.org/art_blog Shop: http://www.etsy.com/shop/visualstories ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From Today...
I agree with you here - also Olson's on field poetry (forget the exact title). But it's the heart of absolutism that manifestos also offer that can be a problem. - Alan On Thu, 21 Oct 2010, Edward Picot wrote: I'm very late coming to this, because I tend to let Netbehaviour posts pile up and then trawl through them a week or so at a time, but this has been a very absorbing thread, especially the exchange between Alan and Curt about significance in art, art-teaching, etc. I'd just like to say a belated word in defence of manifestos. I'm quite anti-manifesto personally, in the sense that I don't personally want to get involved with one, or can't think of one with which I would want to get involved; but I can see that they sometimes serve their purpose. Radically new art sometimes has to create the critical framework from which it should be judged, and manifestos can help with this. Being a literary sort of person I'm thinking of things like the Imagist manifesto, George Eliot's lengthy remarks about realism in literature in Scenes from Clerical Life (or was it Adam Bede?) and Wordsworth and Coleridge's preface to The Lyrical Ballads, with its plea that poetry should be written in language really used by men instead of the highly-artificial diction favoured by the Augustans. Exciting ideas, and ideas which helped to alter the course of our literature. - Edward ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From Today...
cf: http://playdamage.org/manifest-o-matic I agree with you here - also Olson's on field poetry (forget the exact title). But it's the heart of absolutism that manifestos also offer that can be a problem. - Alan On Thu, 21 Oct 2010, Edward Picot wrote: I'm very late coming to this, because I tend to let Netbehaviour posts pile up and then trawl through them a week or so at a time, but this has been a very absorbing thread, especially the exchange between Alan and Curt about significance in art, art-teaching, etc. I'd just like to say a belated word in defence of manifestos. I'm quite anti-manifesto personally, in the sense that I don't personally want to get involved with one, or can't think of one with which I would want to get involved; but I can see that they sometimes serve their purpose. Radically new art sometimes has to create the critical framework from which it should be judged, and manifestos can help with this. Being a literary sort of person I'm thinking of things like the Imagist manifesto, George Eliot's lengthy remarks about realism in literature in Scenes from Clerical Life (or was it Adam Bede?) and Wordsworth and Coleridge's preface to The Lyrical Ballads, with its plea that poetry should be written in language really used by men instead of the highly-artificial diction favoured by the Augustans. Exciting ideas, and ideas which helped to alter the course of our literature. - Edward ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From Today...Let that 'God', disguised as Art, State Control or Poetry forever vanish in the dustbin of human history
Das utopisch eschatologische Denken ist im Kern zerstörerisch, weil es sich auf Macht gründet Unknown source Via Michel Jacobs - Dutch independent horse rider This goes for all kind of analytical philosophical and or art manifestos. -Presuming, you all know how to read German, the philosophers language par excelence, besides Greek and Latin- Apert from tightly connected with 'nous' as in 'mind', 'intellect', manifestos expressing ideals, political polemics or otherwise will ultimately fail in the 'Semantic Trap', cf. Kant and also my dear compadre Vladimir Solovyov. Apophatic philosopher from Czaristic Russia i.e. before Marx his star rose but after Hegel succes as influential western thinker. Also of importance is his interest in Baruch d'Espinoza as the most important political thinker about pre-liberalism and contra establisment activist during the Enlightment So the failure of a one size fits it all doctrine is well grounded in critical Western thinking, as all monotheistic sytems will sooner or later dramatically fail. Well worth to take note of his importance in this discussion Feel free to Google him in your precious 'free' time. Always interested in all kind of mental abberations, yours truly Let that 'God', disguised as Art, State Control or Poetry forever vanish in the dustbin of human history Andreas Maria Jacobs w: http://www.nictoglobe.com w: http://burgerwaanzin.nl Politics is the Architecture of Death On 21 Oct 2010, at 20:17, Edward Picot edw...@edwardpicot.com wrote: I'm very late coming to this, because I tend to let Netbehaviour posts pile up and then trawl through them a week or so at a time, but this has been a very absorbing thread, especially the exchange between Alan and Curt about significance in art, art-teaching, etc. I'd just like to say a belated word in defence of manifestos. I'm quite anti-manifesto personally, in the sense that I don't personally want to get involved with one, or can't think of one with which I would want to get involved; but I can see that they sometimes serve their purpose. Radically new art sometimes has to create the critical framework from which it should be judged, and manifestos can help with this. Being a literary sort of person I'm thinking of things like the Imagist manifesto, George Eliot's lengthy remarks about realism in literature in Scenes from Clerical Life (or was it Adam Bede?) and Wordsworth and Coleridge's preface to The Lyrical Ballads, with its plea that poetry should be written in language really used by men instead of the highly-artificial diction favoured by the Augustans. Exciting ideas, and ideas which helped to alter the course of our literature. - Edward ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Kevin, Thanks - I have read most of them already, but will rereading them very soon for the PhD. The Revolution of Everyday Life. Raoul Vaneigem. PM Press; Second edition edition (November 1, 2010). ISBN-10: 1604862130 This publication is especially interesting to me, because it moves away from Debord's (perhaps) more mechanical approach into a more poetic understanding of situationism - it is also less masculine than Debord's, black and white notion of society and capitalism. Much of Vaneigem's work is less polemic and more fluid emotionally, working as a strong counter point to Debord. There is an interesting interview he did a little while back with e-flux (http://www.e-flux.com/journal/view/62) Electronic Disturbance, The (New Autonomy Series). Critical Art Ensemble. Autonomedia (May 1, 1994). ISBN-10: 1570270066 Well, I have always found them inspiring and imaginative - I remember buying this small book around 94 or 95'ish, when I had been working on various hacking projects (mostly analogue), and pirate radio, and BBS systems. It communicated to me immediately, I understood exactly where they were coming from and have followed their adventures through the years. I have always wondered whether the term 'tactical media' was really useful in respect of defining their projects and social engagement with culture. They were well ahead of many other groups. Last year I wrote about them in an interview with Art is Open Source - http://www.interviewingthecrisis.org/?p=27 Many artists have played a vital and critical role during the crisis. Some, such as Critical Art Ensemble have experienced a form of suppression, as Wajdi Mouwad puts it, ‘war on the artists’. Artist and SUNY Buffalo professor Steve Kurtz of Critical Art Ensemble (CAE) was arrested by The Joint Terrorism Task Force illegally, in May 2004. Kurtz and Robert Ferrell, Professor of Genetics at the University of Pittsburgh’s Graduate School of Public Health, were threatened with 20 years in prison. The incident is not only bazaar but it also tells us how cruel the American has been. Not only to others around the world, but also to its own citizens. On the morning of May 11th, Kurtz found his wife Hope Kurtz had stopped breathing in her sleep and of course in reaction to this he phoned 911. Police and emergency services arrived and were immediately suspicious of the materials that they had found in their home. “He explained to them that he uses [the equipment] in connection with his art, and the next thing you know they call the FBI and a full hazmat team is deposited there from Quantico — that’s what they told me,” says Paul Cambria, the lawyer who is representing Kurtz. “And they all showed up in their suits and they’re hosing each other down and closing the street off, and all the news cameras were there and the head of the [Buffalo] FBI is granting interviews. It was a complete circus.” [11] Dr. Robert Ferrell was indicted just as he was preparing to undergo a painful and dangerous autologous stem cell transplant, the second in 7 years. Suffering from non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, he also had malignant melanoma and since the arrest had undergone two major strokes. The timing could not of been worse, Robert Farrell had no other option in view of the overwhelming strain, whilst suffering from an incurable form of cancer. It was hard enough fighting the extreme conditions of his illness as well as the powers that be. The decision was made with his family because they all feared that he would not last out the prolonged harassment of the trial for federal charges “mail fraud” and “wire fraud”. The opportunistic, political attack on Steve Kurtz lasted for 4 years and the case was finally dismissed on April 22 2008. Lucia Sommer, Coordinator of the CAE Defense Fund, which raises funds for Kurtz’ legal defense, said, “We are all grateful that after reviewing this case, Judge Arcara took appropriate action.” She added that “this decision is further testament to our original statements that Dr. Kurtz is completely innocent and never should have been charged in the first place.”[12] This is an example of the state abusing its power to crack down on individuals, turning against its own citizens. This tactic of demonizing artists as if they were terrorists, aims to ruin the lives it chooses to attack, using its extensive powers to manipulate the media. In exploiting the vulnerability of Steve Kurtz and Robert Ferrell, tarring them as anti-patriotic villains. The state used its institutional mechanisms imposing a symbolic crack down. Ferrell and Kurtz, were pawns in a dark, political and psychological game designed to warn others that this could also happen to them if they got in the way. Thankfully, many artists, individuals and groups out there are continuing to ask questions that offer up dialogues, ways into exploring alternative visions beyond such woeful terrains. Anyway - I better
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Curt, Thanks for the link - it looks like a good reading list. I will pinch a couple of them for myself :-) marc Hi Marc (and all), I guess I came late to the discussion and missed the reading list, but I just found it in the archives. It seems like this class is related: http://lab404.com/179/ I teach at a public liberal arts university ( http://unca.edu ) , and we all take turns (from every department) teaching a freshman introductory colloquim course. Teachers can choose their own topic, as long as it involves reading, writing, and thinking. It was fun teaching this course to non-new media art majors. Best, Curt Congrats Marc I'm a it late coming to the conversation I got as far as the reading list and just wanted to say what great books these are The Revolution of Everyday Life. Raoul Vaneigem. PM Press; Second edition edition (November 1, 2010). ISBN-10: 1604862130 Electronic Disturbance, The (New Autonomy Series). Critical Art Ensemble. Autonomedia (May 1, 1994). ISBN-10: 1570270066 I particularly love the Chapter 20 of the The Revolution of Everyday Life Creativity, Spontaneity, and Poetry http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/display/66 Really one of my all time favourite texts I wrote my college thesis on new media art and activism in 2004 It wasnt a great piece of writing or anything but I enjoyed the research I wrote about Floodnet the distributed denial of service attacks by the Electronic Disturbance Theatre in support of the Zapatistas. http://www.thing.net/~rdom/ecd/EDTECD.html Some great essays in that little book too Best of luck Kevin ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Congrats Marc I'm a it late coming to the conversation I got as far as the reading list and just wanted to say what great books these are The Revolution of Everyday Life. Raoul Vaneigem. PM Press; Second edition edition (November 1, 2010). ISBN-10: 1604862130 Electronic Disturbance, The (New Autonomy Series). Critical Art Ensemble. Autonomedia (May 1, 1994). ISBN-10: 1570270066 I particularly love the Chapter 20 of the The Revolution of Everyday Life Creativity, Spontaneity, and Poetry http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/display/66 Really one of my all time favourite texts I wrote my college thesis on new media art and activism in 2004 It wasnt a great piece of writing or anything but I enjoyed the research I wrote about Floodnet the distributed denial of service attacks by the Electronic Disturbance Theatre in support of the Zapatistas. http://www.thing.net/~rdom/ecd/EDTECD.html Some great essays in that little book too Best of luck Kevin ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Marc (and all), I guess I came late to the discussion and missed the reading list, but I just found it in the archives. It seems like this class is related: http://lab404.com/179/ I teach at a public liberal arts university ( http://unca.edu ) , and we all take turns (from every department) teaching a freshman introductory colloquim course. Teachers can choose their own topic, as long as it involves reading, writing, and thinking. It was fun teaching this course to non-new media art majors. Best, Curt Congrats Marc I'm a it late coming to the conversation I got as far as the reading list and just wanted to say what great books these are The Revolution of Everyday Life. Raoul Vaneigem. PM Press; Second edition edition (November 1, 2010). ISBN-10: 1604862130 Electronic Disturbance, The (New Autonomy Series). Critical Art Ensemble. Autonomedia (May 1, 1994). ISBN-10: 1570270066 I particularly love the Chapter 20 of the The Revolution of Everyday Life Creativity, Spontaneity, and Poetry http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/display/66 Really one of my all time favourite texts I wrote my college thesis on new media art and activism in 2004 It wasnt a great piece of writing or anything but I enjoyed the research I wrote about Floodnet the distributed denial of service attacks by the Electronic Disturbance Theatre in support of the Zapatistas. http://www.thing.net/~rdom/ecd/EDTECD.html Some great essays in that little book too Best of luck Kevin ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Harnessed Silence? Kant was right, Debord was wrong; 'there was never a revolution', Debord: 'the revolte of bored middle class kids' Hakim Bey: ibidem The 'sixties' and its mental / cultural uprising ended with the regime of Pol Pot and did not progress afterwards Not in Europe and not in North America Maybe Anne is right in going to Uruqay, at least there are unseen possibilities out of reach im the so called 'Rich Countries' I live in Amsterdam with partner and children and am seriously thinking about relocating to a rural village near the former 'Iron Curtain'. Why? Because there are unseen and forgotten oppurtunities neglected by the mad drivening constraints urban life had to offer, like a slower, more natural tempo, a better developed attitude towards reusing scarce resources And yes it is very difficult to maintain a life when being pushed around by the 'Ueber-Rich', but why they tend to come from North America? Neo liberalism (Jefferson/Toqueville/Smith) is the worst thing this Earth ever has come across and why it comes from North America? Bill Gates (the ueber ueber ueber american richie) is financing Black Water through its charity program Chinese security firms based on American manegerial models are hired by the Chinese government to kidnap and brutalize their opponents Dutch Neo Nazi Wilders is destroying the once famous Dutch tolerance, assisted by stagiairs educated in American liberal academic millieus American culture has something very scary in its thinking, based on individual freedom it is constantly fighting the rest, ie everyone who is nor me There used to be slogans in every European city after WWII it said: 'Yankees go home!' Why? Because after liberating Europe they took our freedom with them It is a Sad Sad Song '...Berlin at the walls, they 've taking her children away, because she was not a good mother...' Lou Reed - Berlin Andreas Maria Jacobs 'Politics is the Architecture of Death'p w: http://www.nictoglobe.com w: http://burgerwaanzin.nl On 18 Oct 2010, at 01:44, Ana Valdés agora...@gmail.com wrote: That's to returning to Uruguay is depending of a lot of factors, I am very engaged in different questions, Palestine, par example. I visited Ramallah, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv the last Summer. Everyone there tells me in different depressed ways_ we are depending of the Americans, if the taxpayers should wake up and see how their money is spent supporting 40 settlers. The same settlers Obama and Hillary Clinton say they want to stop. I am so tired of political hypocrisy and people's indiference. Ana On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:10 AM, Alan Sondheim sondh...@panix.com wrote: Hi, When are you returning to Uruguay? This conversation, at least for me, _is_ our living situation; it's not separate from the contruction across the street, my ill health, the homeless everywhere, the uber-rich driving people out of their homes. We live here. In a country where people think Obama is a secret Muslim who is not an American citizen. And what _does_ one do about depression? I have my own nightmares, but they're compounded by what this country is becoming. - Alan On Sun, 17 Oct 2010, Ana Vald?s wrote: Hi Marc, Ruth and other active Netbehaviourists: I wonder if this ongoing conversation is or will be kept indepentely from our living situation or are we only able to communicate because we live in the so called First World and enjoy cheap computers and huge broadband. I am myself seriously planning to go back to live in Uruguay, the country where I was born in and a place where I has not lived in the last 32 years. As many maybe know I spent four years in jail for political reasons when I was very young and I was deported to Sweden, where I been living since then. Funny, the other day I participated in a meeting for writers (I am a writer) in Stavanger, Norway, together with one of the injust jailed Maguire 6, http://www.shahrazadeu.org/nb/content/kapittel-forgiveness-and- memory and we discussed the common memories we shared, as writers being former political prisoners. I am tired of Sweden (16 voters voted for a party of extrem right which discourse is we want get Sweden back. back to the 50:s, to an homogenius monocultural backyard country, tired of seeing some tendences in the whole Europe, France, Italy, Spain, Danmark, Finland, Norway, Germany. Yes, we have small pockets of resistance and struggle, but the social ,movements seems for now being in frank recess. What do you think, do we have a chance to revert this sad process? If not, I wish you welcome to Uruguay, where the voters have elected a man who spent 13 years in jail for political reasons. And he is the only president in the world driving a Volkswagen from the 70:s and still living in the small farm outside Montevideo where he and his wife (former jail comrade
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi all, Well - for this moment in time. Today anyway, I cannot respond as swiftly as I would usually due other demands. But, I would like to thank all who got involved in the discussion, as well as those who have been reading them (which there are many). It seems that Neoliberalism is an important issue for many who use this list and the discussions around it have brought about some pretty thoughtful themes, ideas and personal representations regarding its influence, locally and internationally. I do not intend to let it rest here though and will every now and then, open up and share with those interested related comments and concepts. Of course, if this particular thread has not fully run its course yet - carry on and I may jump in later :-) Chat soon much thanks. marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Alan, Things are getting worse and we watch this and no matter how many marches and petitions, they continue to get worse. It's like watching the end of Weimar (or something! - I wasn't around) - as far as art goes, no one pays much attention, there's hardly any funding left, and soon we'll be reciting the ten commandments just to walk down the street... Again, I agree with most of what you say, especially that things are getting worse. Yet, we still have a voice and as individuals, and small and large groups; we can still claim self and collective agency in various ways. And yes, I am very aware that it is not possible to change the world. My take on this, is that we can only change things in small ways and not change the mainstream structures out there, dominated by those who have no interest in everyday people's lives and their well-being. Many do not pay attention as you say as far as art goes, but, actually I would not agree with this. Also, it does not matter really how many pay attention - what's really important is that there are enough out there to share in yours and mine and others' experience, whether it be through dialogue, mutual respect or just looking and considering things. I think it's more complex and situational. As I seem to remember one of the Karen Blissett's saying on here once I see you and you see me, and that's a start :-) wishing you well. marc Hi Marc, I agree with the last paragraph of course! On a larger scale, and this is where despair hits full, here we are in the usa watching the country fall apart - we're 30th for example in infant mortality, first in health care costs but way down in quality of life, life-span, etc., 25-30th in terms of math/science education, filled with hatred of immigrants, Muslims, Islam, Jews, Blacks, Gays - and all this stuff is growing. And no amount of protest has changed this - if anything, the republicans, who are most likely going to win the house of representatives back, have vowed to repeal the health care bill - which itself offers almost nothing. We're heading back to the 1930s with a vengeance, only this time we're trillions of dollars in debt. Things are getting worse and we watch this and no matter how many marches and petitions, they continue to get worse. It's like watching the end of Weimar (or something! - I wasn't around) - as far as art goes, no one pays much attention, there's hardly any funding left, and soon we'll be reciting the ten commandments just to walk down the street... end of rant - I know is is off-topic, but among the artists I know, this is _always_ the topic, always without solution... - Alan On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Alan, but I might be wrong here of course! Same here, I am definitely open for this to be the case regarding my own thoughts, which is of course very possible ;-) I understand and appreciate your dislike for manifestos in whatever form. I have the same distrust of the idea of manifestos for various reasons, and in the early days when furtherfield was considering a 'mission' statement about its function and purposes - we were not comfortable with that - mainly because we found it hard to accept the notion that a group that changes each day, networked to other communities, individuals groups and platforms can possess such an assumption if we were really gong reflect the shifting nature of what it was we were part of. So, in the end we chose to call it a 'behaviour statement', it seemed more grounded. As these questions appear, my mind is focusing on trying to create a circumstance for change in the most productive and usable way. There's still room for other terms to replace a 'manyfesto' for example; perhaps with something similar to a behaviour statement, or the same term - not sure. I know when the time comes it needs to thought about collectively, no matter how small or large the group will be, if it ever happens in the future. The other thing is, it may not even be a movement with a hub or central base or site - it could be a shared set of ideas and works which reflect specific needs or an argument (or set of arguments) to initiate a move to further these issues or ethical things, into a larger cultural context. wishing you well. marc Personally I'm absolutely against manifestos of any sort; I wrote something for Talan Memmott a while ago about it, a manifestor or anti-manifesto against manifestos. The teachers I mentioned, who were really good, were good because they just worked with the students, not at them, but there was nothing formal, nothing to formalize. And it really depended as well on personality; some teachers just aren't interested in working this way and that's ok too. There was a teacher at UCLA I hated - he taught formal drawing in a formal way - and the students loved him, because
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Curt, Thank you for the link to your article, very fascinating reading. Firstly, I know from our various, past discussions - going back over ten years now, that we will never agree with each other in full. I see this as a positive thing, because I have enjoyed the experience of considering your arguments as well as seeing your artistic vision change through the years. When moving into the realm closer to what we both mutually connect with 'as' art, we tend to meet in many interesting and fruitful places :-) To begin with the agenda of opposing/resisting neolibral capitalism is already to commit to a path that is specifically determined and necessarily exclusive of other possibly more efficacious approaches. Some would argue that's the part of the point. And perhaps, making a stand whether it changes things or not; may not, necessarily be the real essence of the matter. It could be more to do with the possibility of human beings making that extra little effort in respecting 'humans+things', realities and contexts, beyond one's own immediate sphere. If we can so readily accept the myth of disempowerment in the face of neoliberalist massification, why not except another myth, that we can move on from there and build something else when the larger frameworks and values that used to support us, are not only broken but decimated? In contrast to many theories, whether modernist or post-modernist, I respect the powers of persons as possible creators of value. We may not need skilled theorists to offer maps of our futures (alone), for we may get along fine without them, which is obviously contradictory in the light of me taking on a PhD all of a sudden. yet, just as much as I am interested in complex, philosophical arguments and ideas; I think that much cannot be put into words that art has always had a way of doing. I'm not prescribing an 'idealism'. The fun could be in the discovery of intuitively appropriating alternative ways in imaginatively engaging in the subtleties and relationships 'of and between' things. And it's not about impressing one's peers - it's about briinging to the palette other materials, content and social context with an ethical understanding beyond macho top-down noise and cliche art-wank. I did write some specific responses to your article also, but at present feel that to do it justice it perhaps needs a more constructive discussion as a separate thread or entity, another time. What do you think? Wishing you well. marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Marc, As you probably know by my pessimism we feel different here. I have been part of something called DDDB that tried to stop an illegal stadium from being built across the street - the mayor, governor, and borough head were for it, declared our neighborhood blighted, illegally seized buildings by eminent domain and kicked people out (they're on the way to being homeless), tore down new buildings, are starting to charge locals the 'right' to park in their own neighborhood, increased pollution and blocked the Environmental Protection Agency's findings (people are getting sick here, childhood asthma's increased, for that matter I'm sick a lot) - and this after thousands of hours were spent suing, marching, contributing, writing, etc. etc. etc. - all to no avail. We're surviving but a lot of people are not and the area really _is_ blighted now, since there are huge gaps where buildings won't be built, promises won't be kept, given the economy. The city paid the developer, by the way, $330 million, and he went ahead without counter-bids, also illegal. There has been nothing we have been able to do. We had council-people on our side, city attornies, etc., and it didn't matter. This goes along with the power of the rich here - laws really don't matter, but influence and wealth do. So we started small, yes, we tried to save our neighborhood, and those of our poorer neighbors who couldn't afford to move, and we fucking lost, after five years and thousands of man/woman hours of useless labor. So it goes. What matters here is money, the Tea Party, Jesus Christ, Orthodox Jewish bigotry, hatred (I don't want to get into the dummy 'black' organizations that were set up by the developer to increase the racism in the area), health care profits, and not much else. The gap between the rich and poor is greater than any time in US history, and that includes the era of laissez-faire capitalism. And my little texts and performances and joining marches here and there do nothing at all. love, Alan, apologies for the rant here; I've been literally feeling suicidal (for this and other reasons) and see no way out at all. - On Sun, 17 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Alan, Things are getting worse and we watch this and no matter how many marches and petitions, they continue to get worse. It's like watching the end of Weimar (or something! - I wasn't around) - as far as art goes, no one pays much attention, there's hardly any funding left, and soon we'll be reciting the ten commandments just to walk down the street... Again, I agree with most of what you say, especially that things are getting worse. Yet, we still have a voice and as individuals, and small and large groups; we can still claim self and collective agency in various ways. And yes, I am very aware that it is not possible to change the world. My take on this, is that we can only change things in small ways and not change the mainstream structures out there, dominated by those who have no interest in everyday people's lives and their well-being. Many do not pay attention as you say as far as art goes, but, actually I would not agree with this. Also, it does not matter really how many pay attention - what's really important is that there are enough out there to share in yours and mine and others' experience, whether it be through dialogue, mutual respect or just looking and considering things. I think it's more complex and situational. As I seem to remember one of the Karen Blissett's saying on here once I see you and you see me, and that's a start :-) wishing you well. marc Hi Marc, I agree with the last paragraph of course! On a larger scale, and this is where despair hits full, here we are in the usa watching the country fall apart - we're 30th for example in infant mortality, first in health care costs but way down in quality of life, life-span, etc., 25-30th in terms of math/science education, filled with hatred of immigrants, Muslims, Islam, Jews, Blacks, Gays - and all this stuff is growing. And no amount of protest has changed this - if anything, the republicans, who are most likely going to win the house of representatives back, have vowed to repeal the health care bill - which itself offers almost nothing. We're heading back to the 1930s with a vengeance, only this time we're trillions of dollars in debt. Things are getting worse and we watch this and no matter how many marches and petitions, they continue to get worse. It's like watching the end of Weimar (or something! - I wasn't around) - as far as art goes, no one pays much attention, there's hardly any funding left, and soon we'll be reciting the ten commandments just to walk down the street... end of rant - I know is is off-topic, but among the artists I know, this is _always_ the topic, always without solution... - Alan On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Alan, but
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Marc, Right on. I love Latour's understanding of politics: shared matters of human concern that congregate around things in the world. I never thought of myself as political until I read that definition. One thing I love about Hakim Bey's Temporary Autonomous Zone idea is that I don't have to change things from the top down in order to change things. I live in the mountains, in interesting communities. My family grows and cans some of our own food, we get a lot more food from our friends, and some of our friends get a lot of that food from grocery store dumpsters. We homeschool our children, we make a lot of our own clothes, etc. We don't have to wait around for someone to legislate that everyone else should live this way. Two more situationist slogans that seem relevant: We will ask nothing. We will demand nothing. We will take, occupy. The revolution is incredible because it's really happening. Respect, Curt Hi Curt, Thank you for the link to your article, very fascinating reading. Firstly, I know from our various, past discussions - going back over ten years now, that we will never agree with each other in full. I see this as a positive thing, because I have enjoyed the experience of considering your arguments as well as seeing your artistic vision change through the years. When moving into the realm closer to what we both mutually connect with 'as' art, we tend to meet in many interesting and fruitful places :-) To begin with the agenda of opposing/resisting neolibral capitalism is already to commit to a path that is specifically determined and necessarily exclusive of other possibly more efficacious approaches. Some would argue that's the part of the point. And perhaps, making a stand whether it changes things or not; may not, necessarily be the real essence of the matter. It could be more to do with the possibility of human beings making that extra little effort in respecting 'humans+things', realities and contexts, beyond one's own immediate sphere. If we can so readily accept the myth of disempowerment in the face of neoliberalist massification, why not except another myth, that we can move on from there and build something else when the larger frameworks and values that used to support us, are not only broken but decimated? In contrast to many theories, whether modernist or post-modernist, I respect the powers of persons as possible creators of value. We may not need skilled theorists to offer maps of our futures (alone), for we may get along fine without them, which is obviously contradictory in the light of me taking on a PhD all of a sudden. yet, just as much as I am interested in complex, philosophical arguments and ideas; I think that much cannot be put into words that art has always had a way of doing. I'm not prescribing an 'idealism'. The fun could be in the discovery of intuitively appropriating alternative ways in imaginatively engaging in the subtleties and relationships 'of and between' things. And it's not about impressing one's peers - it's about briinging to the palette other materials, content and social context with an ethical understanding beyond macho top-down noise and cliche art-wank. I did write some specific responses to your article also, but at present feel that to do it justice it perhaps needs a more constructive discussion as a separate thread or entity, another time. What do you think? Wishing you well. marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Marc, Ruth and other active Netbehaviourists: I wonder if this ongoing conversation is or will be kept indepentely from our living situation or are we only able to communicate because we live in the so called First World and enjoy cheap computers and huge broadband. I am myself seriously planning to go back to live in Uruguay, the country where I was born in and a place where I has not lived in the last 32 years. As many maybe know I spent four years in jail for political reasons when I was very young and I was deported to Sweden, where I been living since then. Funny, the other day I participated in a meeting for writers (I am a writer) in Stavanger, Norway, together with one of the injust jailed Maguire 6, http://www.shahrazadeu.org/nb/content/kapittel-forgiveness-and-memory and we discussed the common memories we shared, as writers being former political prisoners. I am tired of Sweden (16 voters voted for a party of extrem right which discourse is we want get Sweden back. back to the 50:s, to an homogenius monocultural backyard country, tired of seeing some tendences in the whole Europe, France, Italy, Spain, Danmark, Finland, Norway, Germany. Yes, we have small pockets of resistance and struggle, but the social ,movements seems for now being in frank recess. What do you think, do we have a chance to revert this sad process? If not, I wish you welcome to Uruguay, where the voters have elected a man who spent 13 years in jail for political reasons. And he is the only president in the world driving a Volkswagen from the 70:s and still living in the small farm outside Montevideo where he and his wife (former jail comrade with me) gew flowers to earn their life when they were released from prison, 1985. Ana, a bit depressed http://anavaldes.wordpress.com, http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpnäck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi, When are you returning to Uruguay? This conversation, at least for me, _is_ our living situation; it's not separate from the contruction across the street, my ill health, the homeless everywhere, the uber-rich driving people out of their homes. We live here. In a country where people think Obama is a secret Muslim who is not an American citizen. And what _does_ one do about depression? I have my own nightmares, but they're compounded by what this country is becoming. - Alan On Sun, 17 Oct 2010, Ana Vald?s wrote: Hi Marc, Ruth and other active Netbehaviourists: I wonder if this ongoing conversation is or will be kept indepentely from our living situation or are we only able to communicate because we live in the so called First World and enjoy cheap computers and huge broadband. I am myself seriously planning to go back to live in Uruguay, the country where I was born in and a place where I has not lived in the last 32 years. As many maybe know I spent four years in jail for political reasons when I was very young and I was deported to Sweden, where I been living since then. Funny, the other day I participated in a meeting for writers (I am a writer) in Stavanger, Norway, together with one of the injust jailed Maguire 6, http://www.shahrazadeu.org/nb/content/kapittel-forgiveness-and-memory and we discussed the common memories we shared, as writers being former political prisoners. I am tired of Sweden (16 voters voted for a party of extrem right which discourse is we want get Sweden back. back to the 50:s, to an homogenius monocultural backyard country, tired of seeing some tendences in the whole Europe, France, Italy, Spain, Danmark, Finland, Norway, Germany. Yes, we have small pockets of resistance and struggle, but the social ,movements seems for now being in frank recess. What do you think, do we have a chance to revert this sad process? If not, I wish you welcome to Uruguay, where the voters have elected a man who spent 13 years in jail for political reasons. And he is the only president in the world driving a Volkswagen from the 70:s and still living in the small farm outside Montevideo where he and his wife (former jail comrade with me) gew flowers to earn their life when they were released from prison, 1985. Ana, a bit depressed http://anavaldes.wordpress.com, http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpn?ck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. ? Leonardo da Vinci == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
That's to returning to Uruguay is depending of a lot of factors, I am very engaged in different questions, Palestine, par example. I visited Ramallah, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv the last Summer. Everyone there tells me in different depressed ways_ we are depending of the Americans, if the taxpayers should wake up and see how their money is spent supporting 40 settlers. The same settlers Obama and Hillary Clinton say they want to stop. I am so tired of political hypocrisy and people's indiference. Ana On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:10 AM, Alan Sondheim sondh...@panix.com wrote: Hi, When are you returning to Uruguay? This conversation, at least for me, _is_ our living situation; it's not separate from the contruction across the street, my ill health, the homeless everywhere, the uber-rich driving people out of their homes. We live here. In a country where people think Obama is a secret Muslim who is not an American citizen. And what _does_ one do about depression? I have my own nightmares, but they're compounded by what this country is becoming. - Alan On Sun, 17 Oct 2010, Ana Vald?s wrote: Hi Marc, Ruth and other active Netbehaviourists: I wonder if this ongoing conversation is or will be kept indepentely from our living situation or are we only able to communicate because we live in the so called First World and enjoy cheap computers and huge broadband. I am myself seriously planning to go back to live in Uruguay, the country where I was born in and a place where I has not lived in the last 32 years. As many maybe know I spent four years in jail for political reasons when I was very young and I was deported to Sweden, where I been living since then. Funny, the other day I participated in a meeting for writers (I am a writer) in Stavanger, Norway, together with one of the injust jailed Maguire 6, http://www.shahrazadeu.org/nb/content/kapittel-forgiveness-and-memory and we discussed the common memories we shared, as writers being former political prisoners. I am tired of Sweden (16 voters voted for a party of extrem right which discourse is we want get Sweden back. back to the 50:s, to an homogenius monocultural backyard country, tired of seeing some tendences in the whole Europe, France, Italy, Spain, Danmark, Finland, Norway, Germany. Yes, we have small pockets of resistance and struggle, but the social ,movements seems for now being in frank recess. What do you think, do we have a chance to revert this sad process? If not, I wish you welcome to Uruguay, where the voters have elected a man who spent 13 years in jail for political reasons. And he is the only president in the world driving a Volkswagen from the 70:s and still living in the small farm outside Montevideo where he and his wife (former jail comrade with me) gew flowers to earn their life when they were released from prison, 1985. Ana, a bit depressed http://anavaldes.wordpress.com, http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpn?ck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. ? Leonardo da Vinci == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- http://anavaldes.wordpress.com http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpnäck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi all, I have been reading, catching up on the discussions about 'authenticity of art in a neoliberalist world'. One thing that kept coming back to me when reading all of the great concepts, cross-thinking and shared explorations around the subject, was - how the hell does this all translate into an everyday practice? It seems to me that as an overall, blanket of rules or ethical implementation on arts culture as whole it really would not work; because people need their own space to experiment and discover their own creative noise or voices. To suggest everyone becomes the same or reads from the same song sheet, would be a mono-cultural and self-defeating experience; very likely stunting individual agency on art-making and its local, contextual terms. So, there needs to be a contemporary body of people or movement engaged in dealing with these actual questions, specifically. A group who is willing to organize a shared (agreed) 'manyfesto' for a collective practice; for producing alternative art contexts challenging through its practice the destructive nature of neoliberalism and its ideals, and influences on our cultures world wide. So far, there have been small groups and individuals who have done this, but as an art movement specifically re-evaluating and challenging art culture and the neoliberalist agenda as its main focus; through ethical reasonings in order to redefine the mannerisms of art behaviour, with guidelines for others to discuss, debate, use themselves, as a shared create commons, is another thing. The reason I propose 'manyfesto', instead of manifesto is because, we need to be 'consciously' aware in our shared decisions in challenging some of the older more singular modernist (even post-modernist) languages bit by bit. If we take the 'i' out of manifesto, it feels actually less 'masculine' originally (from Italian, from manifestare to manifest). ...maybe we should jointly define the goals ... write some sort of many-festo as marc garrett would call it collaboratively user designed, Armin Medosch. http://www.thenextlayer.org/node/18#comment-7 Obviously goals would be agreed by consensus, but a manyfesto would be worked out in order to bring into fruition a focus and direction (even rules, yes rules) making it easier for individuals and groups to define their own situations, circumstances and differences, actively incorporating process as 'critiques' as 'real' palette, material or 'thoughtful manure' and nourishment in making such works. Such works need not be technologically informed or based, but more exist in recognition or through acknowledgement of the guidelines proposed, shared via the movements own deliberation. The movement would of course need its own doubters, critical thinkers, theorists to act as the consciousness of the collective/movement, but at the same time there needs to be a consensus and agreement that the work introduced into the world is from an activist position, and getting it out there is important and urgent, for all concerned. Even though I am equally enthralled in theorizing about various ideas, much of this excellent, independent, intelligent and inventive/imaginative discourse can work towards informing a pro-active art practice. Wishing all well. marc Think we're pretty much in agreement here! Thanks for the discussion, Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: The best art teaching I've seen (and hopefully articipated in) was Lutz Presser's in Tasmania, and David Askevold's at Nova Scotia; in both cases, they/we assumed the students were already artists/agents, and treated them as such. So making art became a cooperative effort - sharing techniques when needed, but not imposing anything. And believe it or not, everyone rose to the occasion. It's as if nothing was taught at all but everything was learned. It was astonishing. This sits well with me as a pedagogical practice. It makes me think of Ranciere's Ignorant Schoolmaster. If I am the teacher/explicator with the correct answer, then in order to liberate my students with my wisdom and knowledge, I first have to convince them that they aren't yet liberated. This is a form of oppression masquarading as emancipation. As the situationists say, Don't liberate me. I'll take care of that. I, as the teacher, don't arbitrate/decide what matters. But the student still must decide this for herself. That is her own pragmatic question as a practicing artist. Because she has been thrown into the world with a body that can act on things and with a limited amount of time to live. She is the steward of this body and time. So the art work she makes must at least matter to her; otherwise she would spend her time, money, and bodily energy on some other activity she deemed more worthy. What kind of pedagogy best comes alongside my student and helps her discover what matters to her? That becomes my
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
I am struck by the description of the loose movement you propose, Mark, and point at a new project that now has some of the great and good worldwide signed up to it, though for a different area. They are working on 'The Rules', to create some ethical guidelines in the field of technology development. I link it here because notions such as the 'ad hoc committee' and their version control system might or might not inspire further thought on the structure for the writing of the many-festo. https://edocs.uis.edu/kmill2/www/TheRules/ -Original Message- From: netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org [mailto:netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org] On Behalf Of marc garrett Sent: 16 October 2010 13:00 To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... Hi all, I have been reading, catching up on the discussions about 'authenticity of art in a neoliberalist world'. One thing that kept coming back to me when reading all of the great concepts, cross-thinking and shared explorations around the subject, was - how the hell does this all translate into an everyday practice? It seems to me that as an overall, blanket of rules or ethical implementation on arts culture as whole it really would not work; because people need their own space to experiment and discover their own creative noise or voices. To suggest everyone becomes the same or reads from the same song sheet, would be a mono-cultural and self-defeating experience; very likely stunting individual agency on art-making and its local, contextual terms. So, there needs to be a contemporary body of people or movement engaged in dealing with these actual questions, specifically. A group who is willing to organize a shared (agreed) 'manyfesto' for a collective practice; for producing alternative art contexts challenging through its practice the destructive nature of neoliberalism and its ideals, and influences on our cultures world wide. So far, there have been small groups and individuals who have done this, but as an art movement specifically re-evaluating and challenging art culture and the neoliberalist agenda as its main focus; through ethical reasonings in order to redefine the mannerisms of art behaviour, with guidelines for others to discuss, debate, use themselves, as a shared create commons, is another thing. The reason I propose 'manyfesto', instead of manifesto is because, we need to be 'consciously' aware in our shared decisions in challenging some of the older more singular modernist (even post-modernist) languages bit by bit. If we take the 'i' out of manifesto, it feels actually less 'masculine' originally (from Italian, from manifestare to manifest). ...maybe we should jointly define the goals ... write some sort of many-festo as marc garrett would call it collaboratively user designed, Armin Medosch. http://www.thenextlayer.org/node/18#comment-7 Obviously goals would be agreed by consensus, but a manyfesto would be worked out in order to bring into fruition a focus and direction (even rules, yes rules) making it easier for individuals and groups to define their own situations, circumstances and differences, actively incorporating process as 'critiques' as 'real' palette, material or 'thoughtful manure' and nourishment in making such works. Such works need not be technologically informed or based, but more exist in recognition or through acknowledgement of the guidelines proposed, shared via the movements own deliberation. The movement would of course need its own doubters, critical thinkers, theorists to act as the consciousness of the collective/movement, but at the same time there needs to be a consensus and agreement that the work introduced into the world is from an activist position, and getting it out there is important and urgent, for all concerned. Even though I am equally enthralled in theorizing about various ideas, much of this excellent, independent, intelligent and inventive/imaginative discourse can work towards informing a pro-active art practice. Wishing all well. marc Think we're pretty much in agreement here! Thanks for the discussion, Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: The best art teaching I've seen (and hopefully articipated in) was Lutz Presser's in Tasmania, and David Askevold's at Nova Scotia; in both cases, they/we assumed the students were already artists/agents, and treated them as such. So making art became a cooperative effort - sharing techniques when needed, but not imposing anything. And believe it or not, everyone rose to the occasion. It's as if nothing was taught at all but everything was learned. It was astonishing. This sits well with me as a pedagogical practice. It makes me think of Ranciere's Ignorant Schoolmaster. If I am the teacher/explicator with the correct answer, then in order to liberate my students with my wisdom and knowledge, I first have to convince them that they aren't yet liberated
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Ann, Thank you for highlighting 'Moral Responsibility for Computing Artifacts: The Rules'. Very interesting reading and helpful material. I think it gets much more complex (whether for the arts, open source etc) when art touches on the fundamentals of infrastructure. Personally, art which in its make-up or motive explores the realms of infrastructure engaged in the materiality of 'life' and social shifts, in the networked or physical sense, tends to become active agents of change. Some of it can turn into meme by fate and, of course not always social change, yet it's still fascinating. Having said this, it is also important to mention that even though many in the furtherfield ranks are influenced by political contexts, the proposed 'manyfesto' would have live somewhere els, and furtherfield would continue be loose, less defined. Even though it engages with three overall themes connecting to art practice through, technology and social change. I have seen so called 'radical' organisations loose (sacrifice) their spirit, essence and imaginative freedoms when moving too far into areas of either marxist based, singular protocols, or moving the other way to a more capitalist, over efficient position - then isolating the very individuals and groups that helped in building these comunities in the first place. So, furtherfield will not change dramatically, it will change slowly and organically according to its community at that time. The other thing, which is probably not said enough is that, art is messy, gunky, annoying and fluid. It is whatever we want it to be, and thankfully out of this chaos some very stimulating and amazing work is made - this excites me :-) Which is another reason why I am proposing that if such a movement occurs it has a different space, where its own life can breath on its own terms, forking new territories and resources which are more defined because of its shared, collective visions through active and independent contexts. wishing you well. marc I am struck by the description of the loose movement you propose, Mark, and point at a new project that now has some of the great and good worldwide signed up to it, though for a different area. They are working on 'The Rules', to create some ethical guidelines in the field of technology development. I link it here because notions such as the 'ad hoc committee' and their version control system might or might not inspire further thought on the structure for the writing of the many-festo. https://edocs.uis.edu/kmill2/www/TheRules/ -Original Message- From: netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org [mailto:netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org] On Behalf Of marc garrett Sent: 16 October 2010 13:00 To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... Hi all, I have been reading, catching up on the discussions about 'authenticity of art in a neoliberalist world'. One thing that kept coming back to me when reading all of the great concepts, cross-thinking and shared explorations around the subject, was - how the hell does this all translate into an everyday practice? It seems to me that as an overall, blanket of rules or ethical implementation on arts culture as whole it really would not work; because people need their own space to experiment and discover their own creative noise or voices. To suggest everyone becomes the same or reads from the same song sheet, would be a mono-cultural and self-defeating experience; very likely stunting individual agency on art-making and its local, contextual terms. So, there needs to be a contemporary body of people or movement engaged in dealing with these actual questions, specifically. A group who is willing to organize a shared (agreed) 'manyfesto' for a collective practice; for producing alternative art contexts challenging through its practice the destructive nature of neoliberalism and its ideals, and influences on our cultures world wide. So far, there have been small groups and individuals who have done this, but as an art movement specifically re-evaluating and challenging art culture and the neoliberalist agenda as its main focus; through ethical reasonings in order to redefine the mannerisms of art behaviour, with guidelines for others to discuss, debate, use themselves, as a shared create commons, is another thing. The reason I propose 'manyfesto', instead of manifesto is because, we need to be 'consciously' aware in our shared decisions in challenging some of the older more singular modernist (even post-modernist) languages bit by bit. If we take the 'i' out of manifesto, it feels actually less 'masculine' originally (from Italian, from manifestare to manifest). ...maybe we should jointly define the goals ... write some sort of many-festo as marc garrett would call it collaboratively user designed
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
- this excites me :-) Which is another reason why I am proposing that if such a movement occurs it has a different space, where its own life can breath on its own terms, forking new territories and resources which are more defined because of its shared, collective visions through active and independent contexts. wishing you well. marc I am struck by the description of the loose movement you propose, Mark, and point at a new project that now has some of the great and good worldwide signed up to it, though for a different area. They are working on 'The Rules', to create some ethical guidelines in the field of technology development. I link it here because notions such as the 'ad hoc committee' and their version control system might or might not inspire further thought on the structure for the writing of the many-festo. https://edocs.uis.edu/kmill2/www/TheRules/ -Original Message- From: netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org [mailto:netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org] On Behalf Of marc garrett Sent: 16 October 2010 13:00 To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... Hi all, I have been reading, catching up on the discussions about 'authenticity of art in a neoliberalist world'. One thing that kept coming back to me when reading all of the great concepts, cross-thinking and shared explorations around the subject, was - how the hell does this all translate into an everyday practice? It seems to me that as an overall, blanket of rules or ethical implementation on arts culture as whole it really would not work; because people need their own space to experiment and discover their own creative noise or voices. To suggest everyone becomes the same or reads from the same song sheet, would be a mono-cultural and self-defeating experience; very likely stunting individual agency on art-making and its local, contextual terms. So, there needs to be a contemporary body of people or movement engaged in dealing with these actual questions, specifically. A group who is willing to organize a shared (agreed) 'manyfesto' for a collective practice; for producing alternative art contexts challenging through its practice the destructive nature of neoliberalism and its ideals, and influences on our cultures world wide. So far, there have been small groups and individuals who have done this, but as an art movement specifically re-evaluating and challenging art culture and the neoliberalist agenda as its main focus; through ethical reasonings in order to redefine the mannerisms of art behaviour, with guidelines for others to discuss, debate, use themselves, as a shared create commons, is another thing. The reason I propose 'manyfesto', instead of manifesto is because, we need to be 'consciously' aware in our shared decisions in challenging some of the older more singular modernist (even post-modernist) languages bit by bit. If we take the 'i' out of manifesto, it feels actually less 'masculine' originally (from Italian, from manifestare to manifest). ...maybe we should jointly define the goals ... write some sort of many-festo as marc garrett would call it collaboratively user designed, Armin Medosch. http://www.thenextlayer.org/node/18#comment-7 Obviously goals would be agreed by consensus, but a manyfesto would be worked out in order to bring into fruition a focus and direction (even rules, yes rules) making it easier for individuals and groups to define their own situations, circumstances and differences, actively incorporating process as 'critiques' as 'real' palette, material or 'thoughtful manure' and nourishment in making such works. Such works need not be technologically informed or based, but more exist in recognition or through acknowledgement of the guidelines proposed, shared via the movements own deliberation. The movement would of course need its own doubters, critical thinkers, theorists to act as the consciousness of the collective/movement, but at the same time there needs to be a consensus and agreement that the work introduced into the world is from an activist position, and getting it out there is important and urgent, for all concerned. Even though I am equally enthralled in theorizing about various ideas, much of this excellent, independent, intelligent and inventive/imaginative discourse can work towards informing a pro-active art practice. Wishing all well. marc Think we're pretty much in agreement here! Thanks for the discussion, Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: The best art teaching I've seen (and hopefully articipated in) was Lutz Presser's in Tasmania, and David Askevold's at Nova Scotia; in both cases, they/we assumed the students were already artists/agents
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Personally I'm absolutely against manifestos of any sort; I wrote something for Talan Memmott a while ago about it, a manifestor or anti-manifesto against manifestos. The teachers I mentioned, who were really good, were good because they just worked with the students, not at them, but there was nothing formal, nothing to formalize. And it really depended as well on personality; some teachers just aren't interested in working this way and that's ok too. There was a teacher at UCLA I hated - he taught formal drawing in a formal way - and the students loved him, because he provided structure. There's no answers I think, just continuing discussion. - Alan, but I might be wrong here of course! On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi all, I have been reading, catching up on the discussions about 'authenticity of art in a neoliberalist world'. One thing that kept coming back to me when reading all of the great concepts, cross-thinking and shared explorations around the subject, was - how the hell does this all translate into an everyday practice? It seems to me that as an overall, blanket of rules or ethical implementation on arts culture as whole it really would not work; because people need their own space to experiment and discover their own creative noise or voices. To suggest everyone becomes the same or reads from the same song sheet, would be a mono-cultural and self-defeating experience; very likely stunting individual agency on art-making and its local, contextual terms. So, there needs to be a contemporary body of people or movement engaged in dealing with these actual questions, specifically. A group who is willing to organize a shared (agreed) 'manyfesto' for a collective practice; for producing alternative art contexts challenging through its practice the destructive nature of neoliberalism and its ideals, and influences on our cultures world wide. So far, there have been small groups and individuals who have done this, but as an art movement specifically re-evaluating and challenging art culture and the neoliberalist agenda as its main focus; through ethical reasonings in order to redefine the mannerisms of art behaviour, with guidelines for others to discuss, debate, use themselves, as a shared create commons, is another thing. The reason I propose 'manyfesto', instead of manifesto is because, we need to be 'consciously' aware in our shared decisions in challenging some of the older more singular modernist (even post-modernist) languages bit by bit. If we take the 'i' out of manifesto, it feels actually less 'masculine' originally (from Italian, from manifestare to manifest). ...maybe we should jointly define the goals ... write some sort of many-festo as marc garrett would call it collaboratively user designed, Armin Medosch. http://www.thenextlayer.org/node/18#comment-7 Obviously goals would be agreed by consensus, but a manyfesto would be worked out in order to bring into fruition a focus and direction (even rules, yes rules) making it easier for individuals and groups to define their own situations, circumstances and differences, actively incorporating process as 'critiques' as 'real' palette, material or 'thoughtful manure' and nourishment in making such works. Such works need not be technologically informed or based, but more exist in recognition or through acknowledgement of the guidelines proposed, shared via the movements own deliberation. The movement would of course need its own doubters, critical thinkers, theorists to act as the consciousness of the collective/movement, but at the same time there needs to be a consensus and agreement that the work introduced into the world is from an activist position, and getting it out there is important and urgent, for all concerned. Even though I am equally enthralled in theorizing about various ideas, much of this excellent, independent, intelligent and inventive/imaginative discourse can work towards informing a pro-active art practice. Wishing all well. marc Think we're pretty much in agreement here! Thanks for the discussion, Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: The best art teaching I've seen (and hopefully articipated in) was Lutz Presser's in Tasmania, and David Askevold's at Nova Scotia; in both cases, they/we assumed the students were already artists/agents, and treated them as such. So making art became a cooperative effort - sharing techniques when needed, but not imposing anything. And believe it or not, everyone rose to the occasion. It's as if nothing was taught at all but everything was learned. It was astonishing. This sits well with me as a pedagogical practice. It makes me think of Ranciere's Ignorant Schoolmaster. If I am the teacher/explicator with the correct answer, then in order to liberate my students with my wisdom and knowledge, I first have to convince them that they aren't yet
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
On 10/16/2010 03:45 PM, Curt Cloninger wrote: To begin with the agenda of opposing/resisting neolibral capitalism is already to commit to a path that is specifically determined and necessarily exclusive of other possibly more efficacious approaches. Yes, too much anti-capitalist/anti-globalisation/anti-corporatism is simple negativity determined entirely by that which it opposes (the idea of the other suffers similarly). *But* I don't think that's what being authentic means, as it is already its own term. Which makes it a good place to start from. :-) - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Marc, I agree with the last paragraph of course! On a larger scale, and this is where despair hits full, here we are in the usa watching the country fall apart - we're 30th for example in infant mortality, first in health care costs but way down in quality of life, life-span, etc., 25-30th in terms of math/science education, filled with hatred of immigrants, Muslims, Islam, Jews, Blacks, Gays - and all this stuff is growing. And no amount of protest has changed this - if anything, the republicans, who are most likely going to win the house of representatives back, have vowed to repeal the health care bill - which itself offers almost nothing. We're heading back to the 1930s with a vengeance, only this time we're trillions of dollars in debt. Things are getting worse and we watch this and no matter how many marches and petitions, they continue to get worse. It's like watching the end of Weimar (or something! - I wasn't around) - as far as art goes, no one pays much attention, there's hardly any funding left, and soon we'll be reciting the ten commandments just to walk down the street... end of rant - I know is is off-topic, but among the artists I know, this is _always_ the topic, always without solution... - Alan On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Alan, but I might be wrong here of course! Same here, I am definitely open for this to be the case regarding my own thoughts, which is of course very possible ;-) I understand and appreciate your dislike for manifestos in whatever form. I have the same distrust of the idea of manifestos for various reasons, and in the early days when furtherfield was considering a 'mission' statement about its function and purposes - we were not comfortable with that - mainly because we found it hard to accept the notion that a group that changes each day, networked to other communities, individuals groups and platforms can possess such an assumption if we were really gong reflect the shifting nature of what it was we were part of. So, in the end we chose to call it a 'behaviour statement', it seemed more grounded. As these questions appear, my mind is focusing on trying to create a circumstance for change in the most productive and usable way. There's still room for other terms to replace a 'manyfesto' for example; perhaps with something similar to a behaviour statement, or the same term - not sure. I know when the time comes it needs to thought about collectively, no matter how small or large the group will be, if it ever happens in the future. The other thing is, it may not even be a movement with a hub or central base or site - it could be a shared set of ideas and works which reflect specific needs or an argument (or set of arguments) to initiate a move to further these issues or ethical things, into a larger cultural context. wishing you well. marc Personally I'm absolutely against manifestos of any sort; I wrote something for Talan Memmott a while ago about it, a manifestor or anti-manifesto against manifestos. The teachers I mentioned, who were really good, were good because they just worked with the students, not at them, but there was nothing formal, nothing to formalize. And it really depended as well on personality; some teachers just aren't interested in working this way and that's ok too. There was a teacher at UCLA I hated - he taught formal drawing in a formal way - and the students loved him, because he provided structure. There's no answers I think, just continuing discussion. - Alan, but I might be wrong here of course! On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi all, I have been reading, catching up on the discussions about 'authenticity of art in a neoliberalist world'. One thing that kept coming back to me when reading all of the great concepts, cross-thinking and shared explorations around the subject, was - how the hell does this all translate into an everyday practice? It seems to me that as an overall, blanket of rules or ethical implementation on arts culture as whole it really would not work; because people need their own space to experiment and discover their own creative noise or voices. To suggest everyone becomes the same or reads from the same song sheet, would be a mono-cultural and self-defeating experience; very likely stunting individual agency on art-making and its local, contextual terms. So, there needs to be a contemporary body of people or movement engaged in dealing with these actual questions, specifically. A group who is willing to organize a shared (agreed) 'manyfesto' for a collective practice; for producing alternative art contexts challenging through its practice the destructive nature of neoliberalism and its ideals, and influences on our cultures world wide. So far, there have been small groups and individuals who have done this, but as an art movement specifically
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
On 16 October 2010 15:45, Curt Cloninger c...@lab404.com wrote: If modernism says, Here's your flying car, then post-modernism complains, Dude, where's my flying car? But to oppose something (anti-art), or to purposefully attempt to move beyond something (post-modernism) is just a way of getting all entangled with that something (like Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby). If post-modernism is all weepy, disappointed, angsty, despondent (and pragmatically impotent) because the claims of modernism turned out to be a sham, an a-modernist like Latour might respond, Why did you believe those claims in the first place? What did you expect? Let's look at what actually did get accomplished and figure out where to go from here. Who would respond (other than myself of course (after a length pause and mumbling to oneself)) to Latour with I was too young to know better ? Capitalism is indeed a thorny, wily, persistent force/system/virus. Aye. My guess is that it won't be overcome by a manifesto of resistant practices, for the same reason that anti-spectacularism is always eventually re-commodified as the new and expanding edge of the overall spectacle. Capitalism may have to be modulated from within by a kind of (earnest/rigorous) play that looks like something other than overt resistance. Is there a place for this kind of off-topic, useless, manifesto-indifferent, wildcard play in the manyfesto? here. Best, Curt ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
For me, all these terms, including 'virtual' and 'real' are rife with problems based on categoricity and ideology - for example following someone like Lingis, I think we're inscribed, that inscription and culture goes all the way up and down, we're permeated, we construct (local) meaning the best we can, we find our way the best we can (sloughing into Wittgenstein or some such). Hi Alan, Bergson's virtual seems less problematic ideologically, because it literally, historically hasn't happened. Once it happens (if it ever does), it then gets codified, historicized, analyzed, categorized, etc. Until then, who knows how it will fit in ideologically (or what it even is)? This could be one argument for letting practice lead. An art practice finds its way in dialogue with materials that are themselves in dialogue with the world -- a different kind of dialogue than philosophy's dialogue with the world. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
I agree with you here. What is the difference between Bergson's virtual, though, and the future? - Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: For me, all these terms, including 'virtual' and 'real' are rife with problems based on categoricity and ideology - for example following someone like Lingis, I think we're inscribed, that inscription and culture goes all the way up and down, we're permeated, we construct (local) meaning the best we can, we find our way the best we can (sloughing into Wittgenstein or some such). Hi Alan, Bergson's virtual seems less problematic ideologically, because it literally, historically hasn't happened. Once it happens (if it ever does), it then gets codified, historicized, analyzed, categorized, etc. Until then, who knows how it will fit in ideologically (or what it even is)? This could be one argument for letting practice lead. An art practice finds its way in dialogue with materials that are themselves in dialogue with the world -- a different kind of dialogue than philosophy's dialogue with the world. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
About the common opinion of the rather conflictuous relationship between aesthetics and art, I like to remark that such a relationship does not exists per se. It is a economical attitude and precondition that makes itself manifest in a commodified form of capital accumulation. I think Kant-Marx-Deleuze are right and art only fitt in the producer-consumer chain by virtue of the cooperated forces of the so called 'artists'. Reclaiming the aesthetical domain will further the liberation of the 'free arts' Andreas Maria Jacobs w: http://www.nictoglobe.com w: http://burgerwaanzin.nl On 14 Oct 2010, at 05:50, Curt Cloninger c...@lab404.com wrote: Hi Marc (and all), I would say something like art that matters (rather than authentic or real). Art that matters is a really obvious and banal way of putting things that tries not to presume or cloak any specifc ethical angle or cosmological presumptions. Then you get to have a subsequent discussion about what does matter, to whom, what criteria do you use to determine what matters, at what scales, in what time frames, or whatever other contemporary critical qualifiers you want to add. When you say authentic, I read something like earnest. Which doesn't necessarily mean un-funny, but it does exclude a kind of opportunistic/easy cynicism or careerism. Maybe it even means sappy and epic. I'm OK with that (but then I fantasize about singing karaoke to AC/DC's For Those About to Rock [We Salute You], so I am unable to cast the first stone). As Spinal Tap observe, there's a fine line between stupid and clever. When I teach, I don't teach my own personal ethics (per se). But I do encourage my students to figure out what might matter to them. I admit to pushing a kind of experimental practice of emergence -- following Massumi following Deleuze following Bergson -- a kind of making the virtual actual. According to Bergson, there are two kinds of real -- the actual (which has already become history) and the virtual (not VR, but rather a kind of real that at any moment could happen, but just hasn't yet, and may never). Bergson's virtual is still contingent on historical conditions (not simply anything could emerge at any time whatsoever). If you begin with actual ethical criteria for what should happen, then you may well wind up with simply a reshuffling of actual things that have already happened. But if you risk experimenting in rigorous ways that don't evaluate success too soon according to previously available criteria, then maybe you are able to trick the virtual into actualization. It's a risky kind of art practice. As Ren says to Stimpy, That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something good will happen, and maybe something bad will happen. A marxist like Zizek would ridicule this kind of proto-ethics of emergence as fanciful, unpragmatic, spectaular, etc. But that's what makes it a risk. And artists aren't like bridge engineers or anything. Most of us are doing something that we hope matters or will eventually matter, but we can't guarantee at all that it will. To me, such risk taking is one of the things art is particularly good for. Also, making art can be exciting, which is probably an indicator that you're onto something that might matter. Best, Curt Hi Alan all, These questions are pretty decent starters, warranting some serious and playful investigation. I'm wondering what others may think themselves? Not necessarily in terms of my own, perhaps misplaced idea of what is 'authenticity'. But, in whatever words or notions, we consider or feel fits closest. For instance, many individuals engage with Netbehaviour not just because it is a tool, some motives are contextual; harbouring many different reasons of why we are here together - now, one obvious activity is that many on here share a dialogue. But, if we could see beyond the daily functions and motives, what would be left for us to understand between ourselves here and now, and how could we (possibly) mutually expand on 'whatever these things are'? So what's the spirit or kernel linking us, other than the network and the daily behaviours that we all share? Wishing all well. marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
I think Bergson's virtual is just a specific, rigorous way of thinking about our agency in the present as it relates to the past and the future. Some things in the virtual could happen but may never happen. He's not talking about alternate realities or multiple futures. That seems like we are choosing between a number of already pre-determined paths. Instead, we are moment by moment making (or not making) what will become the past. The virtual isn't even recognized potential, becauase recognized potential has already become real. I agree with you here. What is the difference between Bergson's virtual, though, and the future? - Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: For me, all these terms, including 'virtual' and 'real' are rife with problems based on categoricity and ideology - for example following someone like Lingis, I think we're inscribed, that inscription and culture goes all the way up and down, we're permeated, we construct (local) meaning the best we can, we find our way the best we can (sloughing into Wittgenstein or some such). Hi Alan, Bergson's virtual seems less problematic ideologically, because it literally, historically hasn't happened. Once it happens (if it ever does), it then gets codified, historicized, analyzed, categorized, etc. Until then, who knows how it will fit in ideologically (or what it even is)? This could be one argument for letting practice lead. An art practice finds its way in dialogue with materials that are themselves in dialogue with the world -- a different kind of dialogue than philosophy's dialogue with the world. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
This would touch on quantum mechanics, where agency is problematic (and I think on a more macroscopic scale as well). Multiple futures only makes sense in a multiverse, if they're considered 'actualized' at all, and our selves exist within one of course. It gets tricky, but in any case it seems to me that agency itself is subject to deconstruction. (Or not!) - Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: I think Bergson's virtual is just a specific, rigorous way of thinking about our agency in the present as it relates to the past and the future. Some things in the virtual could happen but may never happen. He's not talking about alternate realities or multiple futures. That seems like we are choosing between a number of already pre-determined paths. Instead, we are moment by moment making (or not making) what will become the past. The virtual isn't even recognized potential, becauase recognized potential has already become real. I agree with you here. What is the difference between Bergson's virtual, though, and the future? - Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: For me, all these terms, including 'virtual' and 'real' are rife with problems based on categoricity and ideology - for example following someone like Lingis, I think we're inscribed, that inscription and culture goes all the way up and down, we're permeated, we construct (local) meaning the best we can, we find our way the best we can (sloughing into Wittgenstein or some such). Hi Alan, Bergson's virtual seems less problematic ideologically, because it literally, historically hasn't happened. Once it happens (if it ever does), it then gets codified, historicized, analyzed, categorized, etc. Until then, who knows how it will fit in ideologically (or what it even is)? This could be one argument for letting practice lead. An art practice finds its way in dialogue with materials that are themselves in dialogue with the world -- a different kind of dialogue than philosophy's dialogue with the world. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
I thinkeverything is subject to deconstruction. But then we're back to ethics and pragmatics (both also admittedly deconstructible). If I deconstruct the idea of human agency, where does that lead ethically? Where does it lead artistically (in terms of a pragmatic practice)? Perhaps it leads to play. Here I read Deleuze as a kind of useful structuralist. He allows Derrida to rule the regime/strata of human language. But human language doesn't govern the whole show. There are dozens of other strata (geology, biology, cooking, the human face, etc.) that are also at play in the world. And any one of these strata could erupt beyond itself and lead to an entirely new strata. Of course Deleuze uses human language to describe this geophilosophical meta-structure of strata. Of course Derrida could deconstruct Deleuze's use of language, thus dismantling Deleuze's entire structuralist system. But, if we start with (or return to) Deleuze, Derrida remains within the strata of language, playing games with language, while the strata of geology (for example) continues on its merry way. So, to begin with Delueze is to begin with a kind of hopeful idea (perhaps deluded?) that humans have agency and can modulate various strata (within contingent limits). Where might such a world view pragmatically lead a practicing artist? To begin with Derrida is to begin with something far more cautious, guarded, rigorous, and precious (although no less risky -- it risks great caution). Where might such a world view [under erasure] lead a practicing artist? And what meta-meta-meta-criteria could you ever apply to evaluate which of these two practices matters most? This would touch on quantum mechanics, where agency is problematic (and I think on a more macroscopic scale as well). Multiple futures only makes sense in a multiverse, if they're considered 'actualized' at all, and our selves exist within one of course. It gets tricky, but in any case it seems to me that agency itself is subject to deconstruction. (Or not!) - Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: I think Bergson's virtual is just a specific, rigorous way of thinking about our agency in the present as it relates to the past and the future. Some things in the virtual could happen but may never happen. He's not talking about alternate realities or multiple futures. That seems like we are choosing between a number of already pre-determined paths. Instead, we are moment by moment making (or not making) what will become the past. The virtual isn't even recognized potential, becauase recognized potential has already become real. I agree with you here. What is the difference between Bergson's virtual, though, and the future? - Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: For me, all these terms, including 'virtual' and 'real' are rife with problems based on categoricity and ideology - for example following someone like Lingis, I think we're inscribed, that inscription and culture goes all the way up and down, we're permeated, we construct (local) meaning the best we can, we find our way the best we can (sloughing into Wittgenstein or some such). Hi Alan, Bergson's virtual seems less problematic ideologically, because it literally, historically hasn't happened. Once it happens (if it ever does), it then gets codified, historicized, analyzed, categorized, etc. Until then, who knows how it will fit in ideologically (or what it even is)? This could be one argument for letting practice lead. An art practice finds its way in dialogue with materials that are themselves in dialogue with the world -- a different kind of dialogue than philosophy's dialogue with the world. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
There are two issues here, I think; in terms of pragmatic activity, it can be stifling, which is one reason to cut the theory out or think of it as a posteriori, something like that. The other issue relates human agency to a practical politics as well as issues of justice; Lyotard's differend comes into play. Which brings up a ploy I've heard repeatedly from bad painting teachers in studio - looking at someone's piece and saying things like This doesn't work. The painting can't respond, the odd ethos of the thing-slave is silenced, and the teacher isn't talking with the student, just _to_ hir or _at_ hir, as if an unexamined conoisseurship were the concrete order of the day. If the teacher says on the other hand, This doesn't work _for me,_ - dialog is opened, viewership is deconstructed, etc. I've heard the former far more often. - Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: I thinkeverything is subject to deconstruction. But then we're back to ethics and pragmatics (both also admittedly deconstructible). If I deconstruct the idea of human agency, where does that lead ethically? Where does it lead artistically (in terms of a pragmatic practice)? Perhaps it leads to play. Here I read Deleuze as a kind of useful structuralist. He allows Derrida to rule the regime/strata of human language. But human language doesn't govern the whole show. There are dozens of other strata (geology, biology, cooking, the human face, etc.) that are also at play in the world. And any one of these strata could erupt beyond itself and lead to an entirely new strata. Of course Deleuze uses human language to describe this geophilosophical meta-structure of strata. Of course Derrida could deconstruct Deleuze's use of language, thus dismantling Deleuze's entire structuralist system. But, if we start with (or return to) Deleuze, Derrida remains within the strata of language, playing games with language, while the strata of geology (for example) continues on its merry way. So, to begin with Delueze is to begin with a kind of hopeful idea (perhaps deluded?) that humans have agency and can modulate various strata (within contingent limits). Where might such a world view pragmatically lead a practicing artist? To begin with Derrida is to begin with something far more cautious, guarded, rigorous, and precious (although no less risky -- it risks great caution). Where might such a world view [under erasure] lead a practicing artist? And what meta-meta-meta-criteria could you ever apply to evaluate which of these two practices matters most? This would touch on quantum mechanics, where agency is problematic (and I think on a more macroscopic scale as well). Multiple futures only makes sense in a multiverse, if they're considered 'actualized' at all, and our selves exist within one of course. It gets tricky, but in any case it seems to me that agency itself is subject to deconstruction. (Or not!) - Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: I think Bergson's virtual is just a specific, rigorous way of thinking about our agency in the present as it relates to the past and the future. Some things in the virtual could happen but may never happen. He's not talking about alternate realities or multiple futures. That seems like we are choosing between a number of already pre-determined paths. Instead, we are moment by moment making (or not making) what will become the past. The virtual isn't even recognized potential, becauase recognized potential has already become real. I agree with you here. What is the difference between Bergson's virtual, though, and the future? - Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: For me, all these terms, including 'virtual' and 'real' are rife with problems based on categoricity and ideology - for example following someone like Lingis, I think we're inscribed, that inscription and culture goes all the way up and down, we're permeated, we construct (local) meaning the best we can, we find our way the best we can (sloughing into Wittgenstein or some such). Hi Alan, Bergson's virtual seems less problematic ideologically, because it literally, historically hasn't happened. Once it happens (if it ever does), it then gets codified, historicized, analyzed, categorized, etc. Until then, who knows how it will fit in ideologically (or what it even is)? This could be one argument for letting practice lead. An art practice finds its way in dialogue with materials that are themselves in dialogue with the world -- a different kind of dialogue than philosophy's dialogue with the world. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive:
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
I wasn't that clear, apologies - I'm not sure all humans do have agency - it depends on what's meant by this of course. If agency means to affect change in a particular direction, this just isn't the case; if it means to be able to act, however limited, than we all do; Speer's twitching in Spandau comes to mind. The best art teaching I've seen (and hopefully articipated in) was Lutz Presser's in Tasmania, and David Askevold's at Nova Scotia; in both cases, they/we assumed the students were already artists/agents, and treated them as such. So making art became a cooperative effort - sharing techniques when needed, but not imposing anything. And believe it or not, everyone rose to the occasion. It's as if nothing was taught at all but everything was learned. It was astonishing. - Alan == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
The best art teaching I've seen (and hopefully articipated in) was Lutz Presser's in Tasmania, and David Askevold's at Nova Scotia; in both cases, they/we assumed the students were already artists/agents, and treated them as such. So making art became a cooperative effort - sharing techniques when needed, but not imposing anything. And believe it or not, everyone rose to the occasion. It's as if nothing was taught at all but everything was learned. It was astonishing. This sits well with me as a pedagogical practice. It makes me think of Ranciere's Ignorant Schoolmaster. If I am the teacher/explicator with the correct answer, then in order to liberate my students with my wisdom and knowledge, I first have to convince them that they aren't yet liberated. This is a form of oppression masquarading as emancipation. As the situationists say, Don't liberate me. I'll take care of that. I, as the teacher, don't arbitrate/decide what matters. But the student still must decide this for herself. That is her own pragmatic question as a practicing artist. Because she has been thrown into the world with a body that can act on things and with a limited amount of time to live. She is the steward of this body and time. So the art work she makes must at least matter to her; otherwise she would spend her time, money, and bodily energy on some other activity she deemed more worthy. What kind of pedagogy best comes alongside my student and helps her discover what matters to her? That becomes my own pragmatic question as a practicing teacher. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Think we're pretty much in agreement here! Thanks for the discussion, Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: The best art teaching I've seen (and hopefully articipated in) was Lutz Presser's in Tasmania, and David Askevold's at Nova Scotia; in both cases, they/we assumed the students were already artists/agents, and treated them as such. So making art became a cooperative effort - sharing techniques when needed, but not imposing anything. And believe it or not, everyone rose to the occasion. It's as if nothing was taught at all but everything was learned. It was astonishing. This sits well with me as a pedagogical practice. It makes me think of Ranciere's Ignorant Schoolmaster. If I am the teacher/explicator with the correct answer, then in order to liberate my students with my wisdom and knowledge, I first have to convince them that they aren't yet liberated. This is a form of oppression masquarading as emancipation. As the situationists say, Don't liberate me. I'll take care of that. I, as the teacher, don't arbitrate/decide what matters. But the student still must decide this for herself. That is her own pragmatic question as a practicing artist. Because she has been thrown into the world with a body that can act on things and with a limited amount of time to live. She is the steward of this body and time. So the art work she makes must at least matter to her; otherwise she would spend her time, money, and bodily energy on some other activity she deemed more worthy. What kind of pedagogy best comes alongside my student and helps her discover what matters to her? That becomes my own pragmatic question as a practicing teacher. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
nothing to add except my thanks for having the discussion in front of us. brian On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Alan Sondheim sondh...@panix.com wrote: Think we're pretty much in agreement here! Thanks for the discussion, Alan On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: The best art teaching I've seen (and hopefully articipated in) was Lutz Presser's in Tasmania, and David Askevold's at Nova Scotia; in both cases, they/we assumed the students were already artists/agents, and treated them as such. So making art became a cooperative effort - sharing techniques when needed, but not imposing anything. And believe it or not, everyone rose to the occasion. It's as if nothing was taught at all but everything was learned. It was astonishing. This sits well with me as a pedagogical practice. It makes me think of Ranciere's Ignorant Schoolmaster. If I am the teacher/explicator with the correct answer, then in order to liberate my students with my wisdom and knowledge, I first have to convince them that they aren't yet liberated. This is a form of oppression masquarading as emancipation. As the situationists say, Don't liberate me. I'll take care of that. I, as the teacher, don't arbitrate/decide what matters. But the student still must decide this for herself. That is her own pragmatic question as a practicing artist. Because she has been thrown into the world with a body that can act on things and with a limited amount of time to live. She is the steward of this body and time. So the art work she makes must at least matter to her; otherwise she would spend her time, money, and bodily energy on some other activity she deemed more worthy. What kind of pedagogy best comes alongside my student and helps her discover what matters to her? That becomes my own pragmatic question as a practicing teacher. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- glimpsecontrol.com baiowulf.com ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today
Hi Jena, Much thanks... Wonder what other research is happening on this list? yes good question :-) best marc majenam...@iprimus.com.au wrote: Big congratulations...One small step for Marc one giant leap for us all... enjoy... enjoy ... enjoy. There's nothing like the wonder of good creative research, and you really cant tell where its going to take you or us or how 'the new stuff' you figure out will contribute to the dastardly contested field of knowledge...I'm doing related research into the sound of digital language... and its bent my mind - in a nice (useful) way. My practice has really opened up too. Wonder what other research is happening on this list? Jena Mafe http://www.furtherfield.org/display_user.php?ID=848 ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Tom, No problem, I have posted a version of my reading list on here anyway. Perhaps you missed earlier chats with Alan regarding my course, its subject and theme etc... ...The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc marc. I wasn't clear, when people say what are you reading at such and such a place it means what's the course about, not literally what ARE you reading :) --- On Mon, 11/10/10, marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org wrote: From: marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Monday, 11 October, 2010, 22:12 Hi Tom, For the sake of the Netbehaviour community I will send you a list 'personally', if you are interested. wishing you well. marc Good for you! What are you reading as posh people would say? tom On 11/10/2010 16:01, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today
i'm researching http://processingjs.org/ after writing c, it's so easy :-) james On 13 October 2010 11:02, marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org wrote: Hi Jena, Much thanks... Wonder what other research is happening on this list? yes good question :-) best marc majenam...@iprimus.com.au wrote: Big congratulations...One small step for Marc one giant leap for us all... enjoy... enjoy ... enjoy. There's nothing like the wonder of good creative research, and you really cant tell where its going to take you or us or how 'the new stuff' you figure out will contribute to the dastardly contested field of knowledge...I'm doing related research into the sound of digital language... and its bent my mind - in a nice (useful) way. My practice has really opened up too. Wonder what other research is happening on this list? Jena Mafe http://www.furtherfield.org/display_user.php?ID=848 ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- _ : http://jwm-art.net/ -audio/image/text/code ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today
Oooh THanks for this link! I'm developing a course (for next semester yikes!) that will have a processing component. I need to get some creative research done there as I'm planning and as many resources as I can find. The other components of the class are focused on web and animation or time-based work. I'm working on texts to use for the class too - any suggestions? Best, Bill On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 7:18 AM, James Morris jwm.art@gmail.com wrote: i'm researching http://processingjs.org/ after writing c, it's so easy :-) james http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- A. Bill Miller -- SITE http://www.master-list2000.com/abillmiller/ -- ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Simon, Can anything be authentic? The term 'authenticity' needs more scrutiny. The gist of the question remains the same... I am excited to be exploring how it all works out. As in can anything be authentic - it's a starting point really and an important question that needs rephrasing ;-) wishing you well. marc Interesting questions, especially how can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? The first step to addressing this might be to establish what you mean by authenticity, one of the most problematic concepts in our postmodern neo-liberalist world. Can anything be authentic? In a culture manifest as simulacra I wonder what answer might be determinable? Best Simon Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research in CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts From: marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:49:15 +0100 To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... Hi Tom, No problem, I have posted a version of my reading list on here anyway. Perhaps you missed earlier chats with Alan regarding my course, its subject and theme etc... ...The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc marc. I wasn't clear, when people say what are you reading at such and such a place it means what's the course about, not literally what ARE you reading :) --- On Mon, 11/10/10, marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org wrote: From: marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Monday, 11 October, 2010, 22:12 Hi Tom, For the sake of the Netbehaviour community I will send you a list 'personally', if you are interested. wishing you well. marc Good for you! What are you reading as posh people would say? tom On 11/10/2010 16:01, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201 ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
I think in the usual sense of the word, authenticity is more than problematic - it's suspect. You can go all the way back to Warhol, you can go through white jazz or blues, etc. - through Adorono - it's a mire. It might be better to ask how art can function (yes, this brings up its own problems) in a neoliberalist world - or what are the statuses of artworlds for that matter? But there are also problems with 'simulacra,' which can be taken as a way of avoiding what actually occurs for participants in given situations. If you look at reality tv for example - which is of the spectacle, specular, and a simulacrum in so many ways - you find labor, class, bodies behind it. I worry about any categories; I recognize their academic use of course, but they often seem to obscure in the long run. But then theory to me seems somewhat bankrupt itself... - Alan On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Simon Biggs wrote: Interesting questions, especially how can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? The first step to addressing this might be to establish what you mean by authenticity, one of the most problematic concepts in our postmodern neo-liberalist world. Can anything be authentic? In a culture manifest as simulacra I wonder what answer might be determinable? Best Simon Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research in CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts From: marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:49:15 +0100 To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... Hi Tom, No problem, I have posted a version of my reading list on here anyway. Perhaps you missed earlier chats with Alan regarding my course, its subject and theme etc... ...The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc marc. I wasn't clear, when people say what are you reading at such and such a place it means what's the course about, not literally what ARE you reading :) --- On Mon, 11/10/10, marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org wrote: From: marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Monday, 11 October, 2010, 22:12 Hi Tom, For the sake of the Netbehaviour community I will send you a list 'personally', if you are interested. wishing you well. marc Good for you! What are you reading as posh people would say? tom On 11/10/2010 16:01, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
On 10/13/2010 04:22 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: I think in the usual sense of the word, authenticity is more than problematic - it's suspect. How about realistic? Realistic artistic practice (process), realistic art (product). Realism is the absence of sentiment. It's a kind of efficiency (to ironise a neoliberal shibboleth ;-) ). Producing something realistic in the unreality of neoliberalism (it's markets all the way down...) can be approached in various ways. The successful results will be authentic in a non-suspect sense by virtue of their realism. Which I would make less tautological if I had more time. ;-) - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
But what would a non-realistic art or art practice be? Unless the word is used in the sense of - something that can't be carried out - i.e. it's unrealistic to create an artwork from a single quark visible from outer space and colored blue? - Alan On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Rob Myers wrote: On 10/13/2010 04:22 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: I think in the usual sense of the word, authenticity is more than problematic - it's suspect. How about realistic? Realistic artistic practice (process), realistic art (product). Realism is the absence of sentiment. It's a kind of efficiency (to ironise a neoliberal shibboleth ;-) ). Producing something realistic in the unreality of neoliberalism (it's markets all the way down...) can be approached in various ways. The successful results will be authentic in a non-suspect sense by virtue of their realism. Which I would make less tautological if I had more time. ;-) - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Let's not get into the real. That is just as problematic (suspect) as authenticity. My original point was intended to suggest that it might be a self-defeating tactic to associate artistic practice with authenticity in an antagonistic opposition to neo-liberalism. Whilst art is already suspect, to associate it with something that has been deconstructed to the point of unviability (the authentic) is to add injury to insult. The real is in the same (sinking) boat. Best Simon Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research in CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts From: Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 16:50:46 +0100 To: netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... On 10/13/2010 04:22 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: I think in the usual sense of the word, authenticity is more than problematic - it's suspect. How about realistic? Realistic artistic practice (process), realistic art (product). Realism is the absence of sentiment. It's a kind of efficiency (to ironise a neoliberal shibboleth ;-) ). Producing something realistic in the unreality of neoliberalism (it's markets all the way down...) can be approached in various ways. The successful results will be authentic in a non-suspect sense by virtue of their realism. Which I would make less tautological if I had more time. ;-) - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201 ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Colour doesn't exist at the scale of quarks. Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research in CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts From: Alan Sondheim sondh...@panix.com Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:21:39 -0400 (EDT) To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... But what would a non-realistic art or art practice be? Unless the word is used in the sense of - something that can't be carried out - i.e. it's unrealistic to create an artwork from a single quark visible from outer space and colored blue? - Alan On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Rob Myers wrote: On 10/13/2010 04:22 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: I think in the usual sense of the word, authenticity is more than problematic - it's suspect. How about realistic? Realistic artistic practice (process), realistic art (product). Realism is the absence of sentiment. It's a kind of efficiency (to ironise a neoliberal shibboleth ;-) ). Producing something realistic in the unreality of neoliberalism (it's markets all the way down...) can be approached in various ways. The successful results will be authentic in a non-suspect sense by virtue of their realism. Which I would make less tautological if I had more time. ;-) - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201 ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
I'm aware of that which adds to the unrealism. - Alan, switching to green protons On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Simon Biggs wrote: Colour doesn't exist at the scale of quarks. Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research in CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts From: Alan Sondheim sondh...@panix.com Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:21:39 -0400 (EDT) To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... But what would a non-realistic art or art practice be? Unless the word is used in the sense of - something that can't be carried out - i.e. it's unrealistic to create an artwork from a single quark visible from outer space and colored blue? - Alan On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Rob Myers wrote: On 10/13/2010 04:22 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: I think in the usual sense of the word, authenticity is more than problematic - it's suspect. How about realistic? Realistic artistic practice (process), realistic art (product). Realism is the absence of sentiment. It's a kind of efficiency (to ironise a neoliberal shibboleth ;-) ). Producing something realistic in the unreality of neoliberalism (it's markets all the way down...) can be approached in various ways. The successful results will be authentic in a non-suspect sense by virtue of their realism. Which I would make less tautological if I had more time. ;-) - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201 ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Greener the better... Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research in CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts From: Alan Sondheim sondh...@panix.com Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 16:52:18 -0400 (EDT) To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... I'm aware of that which adds to the unrealism. - Alan, switching to green protons On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Simon Biggs wrote: Colour doesn't exist at the scale of quarks. Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research in CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts From: Alan Sondheim sondh...@panix.com Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 12:21:39 -0400 (EDT) To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... But what would a non-realistic art or art practice be? Unless the word is used in the sense of - something that can't be carried out - i.e. it's unrealistic to create an artwork from a single quark visible from outer space and colored blue? - Alan On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Rob Myers wrote: On 10/13/2010 04:22 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: I think in the usual sense of the word, authenticity is more than problematic - it's suspect. How about realistic? Realistic artistic practice (process), realistic art (product). Realism is the absence of sentiment. It's a kind of efficiency (to ironise a neoliberal shibboleth ;-) ). Producing something realistic in the unreality of neoliberalism (it's markets all the way down...) can be approached in various ways. The successful results will be authentic in a non-suspect sense by virtue of their realism. Which I would make less tautological if I had more time. ;-) - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201 ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201 ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Alan all, These questions are pretty decent starters, warranting some serious and playful investigation. I'm wondering what others may think themselves? Not necessarily in terms of my own, perhaps misplaced idea of what is 'authenticity'. But, in whatever words or notions, we consider or feel fits closest. For instance, many individuals engage with Netbehaviour not just because it is a tool, some motives are contextual; harbouring many different reasons of why we are here together - now, one obvious activity is that many on here share a dialogue. But, if we could see beyond the daily functions and motives, what would be left for us to understand between ourselves here and now, and how could we (possibly) mutually expand on 'whatever these things are'? So what's the spirit or kernel linking us, other than the network and the daily behaviours that we all share? Wishing all well. marc I think in the usual sense of the word, authenticity is more than problematic - it's suspect. You can go all the way back to Warhol, you can go through white jazz or blues, etc. - through Adorono - it's a mire. It might be better to ask how art can function (yes, this brings up its own problems) in a neoliberalist world - or what are the statuses of artworlds for that matter? But there are also problems with 'simulacra,' which can be taken as a way of avoiding what actually occurs for participants in given situations. If you look at reality tv for example - which is of the spectacle, specular, and a simulacrum in so many ways - you find labor, class, bodies behind it. I worry about any categories; I recognize their academic use of course, but they often seem to obscure in the long run. But then theory to me seems somewhat bankrupt itself... - Alan On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Simon Biggs wrote: Interesting questions, especially how can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? The first step to addressing this might be to establish what you mean by authenticity, one of the most problematic concepts in our postmodern neo-liberalist world. Can anything be authentic? In a culture manifest as simulacra I wonder what answer might be determinable? Best Simon Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research in CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts From: marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:49:15 +0100 To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... Hi Tom, No problem, I have posted a version of my reading list on here anyway. Perhaps you missed earlier chats with Alan regarding my course, its subject and theme etc... ...The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc marc. I wasn't clear, when people say what are you reading at such and such a place it means what's the course about, not literally what ARE you reading :) --- On Mon, 11/10/10, marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org wrote: From: marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Monday, 11 October, 2010, 22:12 Hi Tom
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Marc (and all), I would say something like art that matters (rather than authentic or real). Art that matters is a really obvious and banal way of putting things that tries not to presume or cloak any specifc ethical angle or cosmological presumptions. Then you get to have a subsequent discussion about what does matter, to whom, what criteria do you use to determine what matters, at what scales, in what time frames, or whatever other contemporary critical qualifiers you want to add. When you say authentic, I read something like earnest. Which doesn't necessarily mean un-funny, but it does exclude a kind of opportunistic/easy cynicism or careerism. Maybe it even means sappy and epic. I'm OK with that (but then I fantasize about singing karaoke to AC/DC's For Those About to Rock [We Salute You], so I am unable to cast the first stone). As Spinal Tap observe, there's a fine line between stupid and clever. When I teach, I don't teach my own personal ethics (per se). But I do encourage my students to figure out what might matter to them. I admit to pushing a kind of experimental practice of emergence -- following Massumi following Deleuze following Bergson -- a kind of making the virtual actual. According to Bergson, there are two kinds of real -- the actual (which has already become history) and the virtual (not VR, but rather a kind of real that at any moment could happen, but just hasn't yet, and may never). Bergson's virtual is still contingent on historical conditions (not simply anything could emerge at any time whatsoever). If you begin with actual ethical criteria for what should happen, then you may well wind up with simply a reshuffling of actual things that have already happened. But if you risk experimenting in rigorous ways that don't evaluate success too soon according to previously available criteria, then maybe you are able to trick the virtual into actualization. It's a risky kind of art practice. As Ren says to Stimpy, That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something good will happen, and maybe something bad will happen. A marxist like Zizek would ridicule this kind of proto-ethics of emergence as fanciful, unpragmatic, spectaular, etc. But that's what makes it a risk. And artists aren't like bridge engineers or anything. Most of us are doing something that we hope matters or will eventually matter, but we can't guarantee at all that it will. To me, such risk taking is one of the things art is particularly good for. Also, making art can be exciting, which is probably an indicator that you're onto something that might matter. Best, Curt Hi Alan all, These questions are pretty decent starters, warranting some serious and playful investigation. I'm wondering what others may think themselves? Not necessarily in terms of my own, perhaps misplaced idea of what is 'authenticity'. But, in whatever words or notions, we consider or feel fits closest. For instance, many individuals engage with Netbehaviour not just because it is a tool, some motives are contextual; harbouring many different reasons of why we are here together - now, one obvious activity is that many on here share a dialogue. But, if we could see beyond the daily functions and motives, what would be left for us to understand between ourselves here and now, and how could we (possibly) mutually expand on 'whatever these things are'? So what's the spirit or kernel linking us, other than the network and the daily behaviours that we all share? Wishing all well. marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi - As you say, though, matter to whom? And why risk-taking? This itself is a particular social/aesthetic position (I keep thinking of Bourdieu's Distinction for example), that leaves out Grandma Moses and a whole lot of popular art as well; it also might create a (for me problematic) distinc- tion between art and sport, since the latter most often operates within given sets of rules. I can also see doing art that doesn't matter to anyone, but that might provide pleasure somewhere along the line, if that matters. For me, all these terms, including 'virtual' and 'real' are rife with problems based on categoricity and ideology - for example following someone like Lingis, I think we're inscribed, that inscription and culture goes all the way up and down, we're permeated, we construct (local) meaning the best we can, we find our way the best we can (sloughing into Wittgenstein or some such). Another reason 'art that matters' bothers me is that - at least with some of the poorer teachers I've run into - a crude equation - that meaningless art doesn't matter; at that point, studio has too often announced x or y is meaningless and therefore is condemnable. This is crazy and way away from what you're talking about, of course. What might help to explain my wariness of category is that years ago at RISD, I had a student driven to suicide in part because her teachers refused to accept what she was doing as art, much less good art (oddly, it was a form of painting one would relate today to Support-Surface) - she was annihilated. I'd say down with categories, or let them emerge from practice, let the students decide and decide for themselves, not others. Let there be whole families of usages; one problem with 'authenticity' or 'authentic' is that even legal issues are on the horizon, as well as connoisseurship. Please please don't misunderstand - I know none of this is what anyone is saying - I'm just expressing my wariness at 'decision.' By the way, careerism doesn't bother me; if that's what drives someone, all the power to hir. Zizek I just don't get! I try and try! Badiou Boy! - Alan On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: Hi Marc (and all), I would say something like art that matters (rather than authentic or real). Art that matters is a really obvious and banal way of putting things that tries not to presume or cloak any specifc ethical angle or cosmological presumptions. Then you get to have a subsequent discussion about what does matter, to whom, what criteria do you use to determine what matters, at what scales, in what time frames, or whatever other contemporary critical qualifiers you want to add. When you say authentic, I read something like earnest. Which doesn't necessarily mean un-funny, but it does exclude a kind of opportunistic/easy cynicism or careerism. Maybe it even means sappy and epic. I'm OK with that (but then I fantasize about singing karaoke to AC/DC's For Those About to Rock [We Salute You], so I am unable to cast the first stone). As Spinal Tap observe, there's a fine line between stupid and clever. When I teach, I don't teach my own personal ethics (per se). But I do encourage my students to figure out what might matter to them. I admit to pushing a kind of experimental practice of emergence -- following Massumi following Deleuze following Bergson -- a kind of making the virtual actual. According to Bergson, there are two kinds of real -- the actual (which has already become history) and the virtual (not VR, but rather a kind of real that at any moment could happen, but just hasn't yet, and may never). Bergson's virtual is still contingent on historical conditions (not simply anything could emerge at any time whatsoever). If you begin with actual ethical criteria for what should happen, then you may well wind up with simply a reshuffling of actual things that have already happened. But if you risk experimenting in rigorous ways that don't evaluate success too soon according to previously available criteria, then maybe you are able to trick the virtual into actualization. It's a risky kind of art practice. As Ren says to Stimpy, That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something good will happen, and maybe something bad will happen. A marxist like Zizek would ridicule this kind of proto-ethics of emergence as fanciful, unpragmatic, spectaular, etc. But that's what makes it a risk. And artists aren't like bridge engineers or anything. Most of us are doing something that we hope matters or will eventually matter, but we can't guarantee at all that it will. To me, such risk taking is one of the things art is particularly good for. Also, making art can be exciting, which is probably an indicator that you're onto something that might matter. Best, Curt Hi Alan all, These questions are pretty decent starters, warranting some serious and playful investigation. I'm wondering what others may think
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
On 10/11/2010 11:58 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: I think we ALL need the reading list - please send it to the list. Yes, share the love-err-knowledge. Share the knowledge. - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
OK Rob others... you asked for it... Here is a selected version of my first reading list, just the books. I have another reading list - currently being updated... A Reading list :-) Jean Dubuffet. Asphyxiating Culture and Other Writings. Thunder's Mouth Pr; First Edition first Printing edition (May 1988). ISBN-10: 0941423093. Latour, Bruno. Politics of Nature: How to Bring the Sciences Into Democracy (2004, ISBN 0-674-01289-5). Art and Contemporary Critical Practice. Reinventing Institutional Critique. Toward a Critical Art Theory. Edited by Gerald Raunig and Gene Ray. (1 May 2009) ISBN-10: 190694802X. Waves - The Art of the Electromagnetic Society. Hartware MedienKunstVerein, Armin Medosch, Rasa Smite, Raitis Smits, Inke Arns. (2008) ISBN: 978-3-941100-00-8 Tools for Conviviality. Ivan Illich. (1973). ISBN 0-06-080308-8, ISBN 0-06-012138-6. The most radical Gesture. The Situationist International in a Postmodern age. Routledge; 1 edition (June 5, 1992). ISBN-10: 0415062225 50 Years of Recuperation of the Situationist International. McKenzie Wark. Princeton Architectural Press; 1 edition (July 4, 2008) ISBN-10: 1568987897. The Revolution of Everyday Life. Raoul Vaneigem. PM Press; Second edition edition (November 1, 2010). ISBN-10: 1604862130 Situationist International Anthology. Ken Knabb. Bureau Of Public Secrets; Revised Expanded edition (March 1, 2007). ISBN-10: 0939682044 Protocol: How Control Exists after Decentralization. Alex Galloway. The MIT Press (April 1, 2006) ISBN-10: 0262572338 New Media in the White Cube and Beyond: Curatorial Models for Digital Art. University of California Press; 1 edition (December 15, 2008). ISBN-10: 0520255976 Rethinking Curating: Art after New Media. Beryl Graham, Sarah Cook, Steve Dietz (Foreword). The MIT Press (March 31, 2010) ISBN-10: 0262013886 At the Edge of Art. Joline Blais, Jon Ippolito, and SMITH. Thames Hudson (March 27, 2006). ISBN-10: 0500238227 Electronic Disturbance, The (New Autonomy Series). Critical Art Ensemble. Autonomedia (May 1, 1994). ISBN-10: 1570270066 Do It Yourself: A Handbook for Changing Our World. Kim Bryan, Paul Chatterton, and Alice Cutler. Pluto Press (June 27, 2007) ISBN-10: 0745326374 New Media Art. Reena Jana and Mark Tribe. TASCHEN America Llc; Taschen 25 special ed edition (October 1, 2009). ISBN-10: 3836514133 Essays on the Blurring of Art and Life. Allan Kaprow and Jeff Kelley. University of California Press; 2 edition (December 15, 2003). ISBN-10: 0520240790 New Media: A Critical Introduction. Martin Lister, Jon Dovey, Seth Giddings, Iain Grant, Kieran Kelly. # Routledge; 2 edition (January 29, 2009). ISBN-10: 0415431603 Media Ecologies: Materialist Energies in Art and Technoculture. Matthew Fuller. MIT Press (April 30, 2007). ISBN-10: 026256226X Network Art: Practices and Positions (Innovations in Art and Design). Tom Corby. Routledge; 1 edition (January 13, 2006). ISBN-10: 0415364795 Art and Revolution: Transversal Activism in the Long Twentieth Century. Gerald Raunig. Aileen Derieg. Semiotext(September 30, 2007). ISBN-10: 1584350466 Living in a Technological Culture: Human Tools and Human Values (Philosophical Issues in Science). Hans Oberdiek. Mary Tiles. Routledge; 1 edition (December 14, 1995). ISBN-10: 0415071003 The User Illusion: Cutting Consciousness Down to Size. Tor Norretranders. Penguin (Non-Classics) (August 1, 1999). ISBN-10: 0140230122 Conversations Before the End of Time. Suzi Gablik. (Aug 1997). Thames Hudson (August 1997). ISBN-10: 0500278385 Imaginary Futures: From Thinking Machines to the Global Village. Richard Barbrook. Pluto Press (April 20, 2007). ISBN-10: 0745326609 The Logic of Practice. Pierre Bourdieu et al. Stanford University Press; 1 edition (August 1, 1992). ISBN-10: 0804720118 nuff said! marc On 10/11/2010 11:58 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: I think we ALL need the reading list - please send it to the list. Yes, share the love-err-knowledge. Share the knowledge. - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today
Big congratulations...One small step for Marc one giant leap for us all... enjoy... enjoy ... enjoy. There's nothing like the wonder of good creative research, and you really cant tell where its going to take you or us or how 'the new stuff' you figure out will contribute to the dastardly contested field of knowledge...I'm doing related research into the sound of digital language... and its bent my mind - in a nice (useful) way. My practice has really opened up too. Wonder what other research is happening on this list? Jena Mafe http://www.furtherfield.org/display_user.php?ID=848 ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
A great list - I'd add Wendy Chun on Control and Freedom (and anything else she writes) and Kate Hales' book on 2nd order cybernetics (forget the title at the moment). Someday I'll have to take _your_ class! - Alan, and thanks! == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Congratulations Marc and good luck. On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Alan Sondheim sondh...@panix.com wrote: Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- * Pall Thayer artist http://www.this.is/pallit * ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Congrats Marc. Those lecturers won't know what's hit them! Be gentle with them. M -original message- Subject: [NetBehaviour] From today... From: marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org Date: 11/10/2010 16:02 Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Alan, Entering into education the wrong way round. I have always researched, studied, made art, written hacked outside of institutional contexts, until now... I have been offered an MPhil, with a choice to do a PhD after the 2nd year. The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Congratulations, Marc! It's nice sometimes to test new roles! :) Ana, working since December for the Swedish National Direction of Travelling Exhibitions On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 5:23 PM, marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org wrote: Hi Alan, Entering into education the wrong way round. I have always researched, studied, made art, written hacked outside of institutional contexts, until now... I have been offered an MPhil, with a choice to do a PhD after the 2nd year. The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- http://anavaldes.wordpress.com http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpnäck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Marc - that's brilliant - being a student is the best thing in life, I love it! Are we still living in a Neoliberalist world? Has the Neoliberalist experiment ended in utter failure (bank crisis etc)? just a thought dave On 11 October 2010 16:23, marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org wrote: Hi Alan, Entering into education the wrong way round. I have always researched, studied, made art, written hacked outside of institutional contexts, until now... I have been offered an MPhil, with a choice to do a PhD after the 2nd year. The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- Art Portfolio: http://davemiller.org Art Blog: http://davemiller.org/art_blog Shop: http://www.etsy.com/shop/visualstories ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Ana, Thank you - this will be an extra role adding a new dimension and complexity to my life. It's going to be interesting. Unusually, I have a 'real' (lived) history to use as a resource for this study. Many years... wishing you well. marc p.s. working since December for the Swedish National Direction of Travelling Exhibitions mmm, we may be contact soon ;-) Congratulations, Marc! It's nice sometimes to test new roles! :) Ana, working since December for the Swedish National Direction of Travelling Exhibitions On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 5:23 PM, marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org wrote: Hi Alan, Entering into education the wrong way round. I have always researched, studied, made art, written hacked outside of institutional contexts, until now... I have been offered an MPhil, with a choice to do a PhD after the 2nd year. The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- http://anavaldes.wordpress.com http://passagenwerk.wordpress.com http://caravia.stumbleupon.com http://www.crusading.se Gondolgatan 2 l tr 12832 Skarpnäck Sweden tel +468-943288 mobil 4670-3213370 When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Dave, that's brilliant - being a student is the best thing in life, I love it! Much thanks :-) Are we still living in a Neoliberalist world? Has the Neoliberalist experiment ended in utter failure (bank crisis etc)? I would say that Neoliberalism thrives on failure - it always wins. Remember who's paying for their mistakes - it's not them... marc Marc - that's brilliant - being a student is the best thing in life, I love it! Are we still living in a Neoliberalist world? Has the Neoliberalist experiment ended in utter failure (bank crisis etc)? just a thought dave On 11 October 2010 16:23, marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org wrote: Hi Alan, Entering into education the wrong way round. I have always researched, studied, made art, written hacked outside of institutional contexts, until now... I have been offered an MPhil, with a choice to do a PhD after the 2nd year. The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Mark, Congrats Marc. Those lecturers won't know what's hit them! Be gentle with them. Yes, we'll see how it pans out. I am a feral being, intent on challenging various monocultures and socially constructed systems put in place to silence our 'real' presences, in this world. But, it is time. So may others have entered into this world of research and learning, usually at a younger age than myself. This will help me engage at even deeper level regarding new contexts for furtherfield, it will also help furtherfield to survive in various ways in the future, historically and practically. wishing you well. marc M -original message- Subject: [NetBehaviour] From today... From: marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org Date: 11/10/2010 16:02 Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Pall, Thanks very much... I have heard you are now in New York. How's that working? wishing you well. marc Congratulations Marc and good luck. On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Alan Sondheim sondh...@panix.com wrote: Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
This is wonderful news, Marc. Coming into a university with so much experience can bring much pleasure, because it will be easier for you to separate the useful from the useless . . . And, if UK universities are anything like those in the US, you may find that resources like big-ticket software and equipment will be incredibly less expensive for you to obtain with that student i.d., so if there is anything you have needed for your work, now is the time . . . The main challenge may be the tact required (or the silence sometimes, which is even worse) when you encounter the latter. On top of that, you have a fund of experience which will certainly be recognized and appreciated (apparently already with the admissions offer) -- and you may find that other students will want to participate in your work, so that you can undertake projects with more bodies than you have had before. I don't think you need this formal education to gain stature, but it may come in handy for applying for grants and such. . . Anyway, have fun and stay happy. . . All best, Martha The Lost Shoe http://www.chapbookpublisher.com/shop.html The Lost Shoe video http://www.sporkworld.org/Deed/lostshoe.mov this is visual poetry by Millie Niss (27 March 2010 release) this is visual poetry by Martha Deed (24 August 2010 release) http://thisisvisualpoetry.com Heat and 500 Favourite Words (Released July 2010) http://chapbookpublisher.com/tiny-shop.html On 10/11/2010 11:23 AM, marc garrett wrote: Hi Alan, Entering into education the wrong way round. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
I wish my students always told me they were having the best time of their life. It would make me feel better! Best Simon Simon Biggs s.bi...@eca.ac.uk si...@littlepig.org.uk Skype: simonbiggsuk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ Research Professor edinburgh college of art http://www.eca.ac.uk/ Creative Interdisciplinary Research in CoLlaborative Environments http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice http://www.elmcip.net/ Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts From: dave miller dave.miller...@gmail.com Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 16:36:16 +0100 To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] From today... Marc - that's brilliant - being a student is the best thing in life, I love it! Are we still living in a Neoliberalist world? Has the Neoliberalist experiment ended in utter failure (bank crisis etc)? just a thought dave On 11 October 2010 16:23, marc garrett marc.garr...@furtherfield.org wrote: Hi Alan, Entering into education the wrong way round. I have always researched, studied, made art, written hacked outside of institutional contexts, until now... I have been offered an MPhil, with a choice to do a PhD after the 2nd year. The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- Art Portfolio: http://davemiller.org Art Blog: http://davemiller.org/art_blog Shop: http://www.etsy.com/shop/visualstories ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC009201 ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Martha, Thank you for your positive post. Part of the decision includes challenging my own ideas, approaches and assumptions. A kind cleansing and re-evaluation. bringing about another version of me - to be more open to other forms of learning and expressions, which may have felt distant or even not part of my own experience or understanding. It will also tighten up my arguments relating to my shared and personal practice also. I don't think you need this formal education to gain stature, but it may come in handy for applying for grants and such. . . So many reasons not to do it, yet many reasons to do so. As you mention, stature is way down on my list. As you know, I am really not interested in the genius syndrome. This new venture is also about finding new ways for furtherfield to survive and maintain its organic and free presence in the world somehow, without having to go the usual bland and tedious direction of charging subscribers, getting funds for research etc... wishing you well. marc This is wonderful news, Marc. Coming into a university with so much experience can bring much pleasure, because it will be easier for you to separate the useful from the useless . . . And, if UK universities are anything like those in the US, you may find that resources like big-ticket software and equipment will be incredibly less expensive for you to obtain with that student i.d., so if there is anything you have needed for your work, now is the time . . . The main challenge may be the tact required (or the silence sometimes, which is even worse) when you encounter the latter. On top of that, you have a fund of experience which will certainly be recognized and appreciated (apparently already with the admissions offer) -- and you may find that other students will want to participate in your work, so that you can undertake projects with more bodies than you have had before. I don't think you need this formal education to gain stature, but it may come in handy for applying for grants and such. . . Anyway, have fun and stay happy. . . All best, Martha The Lost Shoe http://www.chapbookpublisher.com/shop.html The Lost Shoe video http://www.sporkworld.org/Deed/lostshoe.mov this is visual poetry by Millie Niss (27 March 2010 release) this is visual poetry by Martha Deed (24 August 2010 release) http://thisisvisualpoetry.com Heat and 500 Favourite Words (Released July 2010) http://chapbookpublisher.com/tiny-shop.html On 10/11/2010 11:23 AM, marc garrett wrote: Hi Alan, Entering into education the wrong way round. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
On 10/11/2010 04:01 PM, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. Excellent! Smash the system from within *after* you finish your research. It's good to become someone else again ;-) Keep on keepin' on... - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Oh Marc, This is great! I have a friend who is getting his Phd from the European Graduate School - studying under Badiou and Agamben. I feel I'm too old to go back to school, but when I got my MA (Brown University), the courses were absurd, just close reading of texts to no purpose at all; we didn't even read the 'continental philosophy' of the period, Sartre etc. My education has all been self-educated so to speak; Brown was useless. And your topic seems wonderful! Congratulations! again - Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Alan, Entering into education the wrong way round. I have always researched, studied, made art, written hacked outside of institutional contexts, until now... I have been offered an MPhil, with a choice to do a PhD after the 2nd year. The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Good for you! What are you reading as posh people would say? tom On 11/10/2010 16:01, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Tom, For the sake of the Netbehaviour community I will send you a list 'personally', if you are interested. wishing you well. marc Good for you! What are you reading as posh people would say? tom On 11/10/2010 16:01, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Alan, Oh Marc, This is great! I have a friend who is getting his Phd from the European Graduate School - studying under Badiou and Agamben. I feel I'm too old to go back to school, but when I got my MA (Brown University), the courses were absurd, just close reading of texts to no purpose at all; we didn't even read the 'continental philosophy' of the period, Sartre etc. My education has all been self-educated so to speak; Brown was useless. Well yes - same here, and of course you know this. I'll be bringing some mud from my feet into the University environment. Physically, mentally and metaphorically ;-) I suspect you've been reading all the essential and (perhaps some) less 'officially' accepted material anyway; and Brown University was more a small part of a much larger process of relational understandings, discoveries and explorations. And your topic seems wonderful! I have already begun writing... Congratulations! again Much thanks marc Oh Marc, This is great! I have a friend who is getting his Phd from the European Graduate School - studying under Badiou and Agamben. I feel I'm too old to go back to school, but when I got my MA (Brown University), the courses were absurd, just close reading of texts to no purpose at all; we didn't even read the 'continental philosophy' of the period, Sartre etc. My education has all been self-educated so to speak; Brown was useless. And your topic seems wonderful! Congratulations! again - Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Alan, Entering into education the wrong way round. I have always researched, studied, made art, written hacked outside of institutional contexts, until now... I have been offered an MPhil, with a choice to do a PhD after the 2nd year. The programme of study falls under - Film/Television/Media Studies Research. Although many individuals are studying digital, media art within this framework of study. An edited intro... How artists engage in the process of taking control of the medium of technology, and their own creative voice; is complicated and works at many different degrees of self-agency and situation-based needs. The Situationists in their own time had to bring about a completely new way of being in the world. They changed habits and approaches to their own art, introducing new territories of art practice, adapting and moving their attention into the realms of film, book distribution and projects (happening) in everyday culture. In light of Debord's statement There can be no freely spent time until we possess the modern tools for the construction of everyday life. The use of such tools will mark the leap from a utopian revolutionary art to an experimental revolutionary art. My starting question is - How can art maintain its authenticity in a Neoliberalist world? It's a little bit more complex, but the above give's you some idea :-) wishing you well. marc Birkbeck? I visited David Bohm there! Wonderful! What are you studying? love Alan On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
Hi Rob, That's the plan - challenge our world not only by 'real' example, but also with the pen, or rather the keyboard... Keep on keepin' on... It's actually quite a mad thing to do, especially when we are doing so much already. But, it cannot wait any longer... wishing you well. marc Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. Excellent! Smash the system from within *after* you finish your research. It's good to become someone else again ;-) Keep on keepin' on... - Rob. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] From today...
I think we ALL need the reading list - please send it to the list. I also think a lot of us are reading other interesting books that might be of interest - we should at least list these. I've been looking at Philo and Ovid (late Ovid, not the usual) recently for example, as well as listening to Leonard Susskind's Stanford lectures on supersymmetry... - Alan - do tell! On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: Hi Tom, For the sake of the Netbehaviour community I will send you a list 'personally', if you are interested. wishing you well. marc Good for you! What are you reading as posh people would say? tom On 11/10/2010 16:01, marc garrett wrote: Hi Netbehaviourists, From today... I am a student at Birkbeck University - a whole new experience for me. It's good to become someone else again ;-) marc ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour == email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ == ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
