Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Stewart Mckinney]

May I say, I endorse Mark Hahn for nice-police, 2012.

Also , much agreed with what Issacs said w.r.t "talk less, code and show
more". If you don't want to show us all of your code, why not talk about
some of the general concepts in a few blog posts, or create a contrived
example that sort of touches on what you are doing in your code? I think we
all understand keeping some of the secret sauce secret,  but you know, we
all come here to learn from one another.

Also, if you really want to be revolutionary or a trail-blazer - or hell, a
programmer in general - you will have to adapt the "absolutely giving no
fucks" attitude towards what people say about you in general. A part of you
will have to internalize it ( or else you will never grow ), but if you are
truly working on something great or mind-blowing, there will be a lot of
convincing to do.

You aren't going to convince us with YouTube videos. Try some blog posts
and some code, instead. Good luck.

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Rick Waldron  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>
>> >  I said much the same as you have here and got a gnarly chastising.
>>
>> I don't remember exactly what you said, or how I chastised you, but I do 
>> remember
>> it was the words used, not the message.
>>
>>
> Wasn't talking about you, homeboy.
>
>
>
>
>> I was on a curmudgeon role that day.  I chastised someone for calling
>> another user a "tard".  I couldn't believe two people came back and
>> defended his usage.
>>
>> And yes, I'm the nice-police.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>>
>>>  Funny thing, I said much the same as you have here and got a gnarly
>>> chastising.
>>>
>>> -Rick
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 8, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Joshua Gross wrote:
>>>
>>> Dennis, this is a developer forum. If you want to peddle your software
>>> and aren't willing to show something besides videos, you're in the wrong
>>> place.
>>>
>>> Also I'm not going to watch a 15 minute video. You're not selling
>>> yourself very well, I kindly advise you to move on so this stops clogging
>>> my inbox :)
>>>
>>> -- Joshua Gross
>>> Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013
>>> 414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com
>>>
>>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:12 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>>>
>>> Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of
>>> fancy algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing
>>> packages out there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been
>>> done many times before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby!
>>>  Besides, you are welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my
>>> site at luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the
>>> taking.
>>>
>>> I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested
>>> in being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and
>>> something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up and
>>> running.
>>>
>>> Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just
>>> show me your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me
>>> your breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but,
>>> my god... I hardly know ye!!!
>>>
>>> My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as
>>> dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover
>>> trick).  I have also included some basic image file support.
>>>
>>> Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote:
>>>
>>> Code post it else Zzzz
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>>>
>>> See the newest features here--> http://www.youtube.**
>>> com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM 
>>>
>>> The current version of the program now includes drag and drop
>>> functionality of text files from the native desktop straight into the
>>> browser desktop or (any of the subfolders). The difference between my drag
>>> and drop and all the HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the
>>> dropped files immediately become icons that are integrated into the program.
>>>
>>> I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so
>>> you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a
>>> very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change
>>> individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged
>>> down in the details of any particular application, because I always want to
>>> stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and
>>> intuitive way to organize our online lives.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should
>>> be no controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  I
>>> really do need to start getting interested people on boa

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Adam Crabtree]

FWIW, it's been done multiple times before.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/30/synacor-ipo-carbyn/

Carbyn was a real startup that had a lot of the features I've seen
mentioned here and was very well executed on IMHO, not to mention the
upcoming Firefox OS, webOS, and various others in the past. I empathize
with your sentiments that you feel you are seeing beyond the curvature of
where things are currently headed, but as everyone states here talk is
cheap. Familiarize yourself better with your "competitors" and past
precedents and outline specifically in what ways you are trailblazing, in
what ways you are iterating, and in what ways you are doing things exactly
the same way because they worked well for others and you'll find others
tuning out a lot less.

You've been pretty long-winded here. Strive for brevity and conciseness to
be more effective. I wanted to experience the story and vision you are
painting, but stopped far short as I lost interest, and I am someone that
*wanted* to go along. Also, I completely disagree with your political
views, but not your passion and goals with this project. Injecting politics
into software isn't new, but I think you're going to make more enemies than
allies when you do so. In other words, political zealotry is cheap too.
Bringing people together is the real hard work.

Best of luck and keep working toward your vision!

Cheers,
Adam Crabtree


On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:

> >  I said much the same as you have here and got a gnarly chastising.
>
> I don't remember exactly what you said, or how I chastised you, but I do 
> remember
> it was the words used, not the message.
>
> I was on a curmudgeon role that day.  I chastised someone for calling
> another user a "tard".  I couldn't believe two people came back and
> defended his usage.
>
> And yes, I'm the nice-police.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>>  Funny thing, I said much the same as you have here and got a gnarly
>> chastising.
>>
>> -Rick
>>
>> On Monday, October 8, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Joshua Gross wrote:
>>
>> Dennis, this is a developer forum. If you want to peddle your software
>> and aren't willing to show something besides videos, you're in the wrong
>> place.
>>
>> Also I'm not going to watch a 15 minute video. You're not selling
>> yourself very well, I kindly advise you to move on so this stops clogging
>> my inbox :)
>>
>> -- Joshua Gross
>> Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013
>> 414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com
>>
>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:12 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>>
>> Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of fancy
>> algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing packages out
>> there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been done many
>> times before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby!  Besides,
>> you are welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my site at
>> luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the taking.
>>
>> I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested
>> in being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and
>> something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up and
>> running.
>>
>> Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just
>> show me your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me
>> your breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but,
>> my god... I hardly know ye!!!
>>
>> My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as
>> dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover
>> trick).  I have also included some basic image file support.
>>
>> Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU
>>
>> On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote:
>>
>> Code post it else Zzzz
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>>
>> See the newest features here--> http://www.youtube.**
>> com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM 
>>
>> The current version of the program now includes drag and drop
>> functionality of text files from the native desktop straight into the
>> browser desktop or (any of the subfolders). The difference between my drag
>> and drop and all the HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the
>> dropped files immediately become icons that are integrated into the program.
>>
>> I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so
>> you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a
>> very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change
>> individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged
>> down in the details of any particular application, because I always want to
>> stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and
>> intuitive way to 

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Mark Hahn]

>  I said much the same as you have here and got a gnarly chastising.

I don't remember exactly what you said, or how I chastised you, but I
do remember
it was the words used, not the message.

I was on a curmudgeon role that day.  I chastised someone for calling
another user a "tard".  I couldn't believe two people came back and
defended his usage.

And yes, I'm the nice-police.


On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:

>  Funny thing, I said much the same as you have here and got a gnarly
> chastising.
>
> -Rick
>
> On Monday, October 8, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Joshua Gross wrote:
>
> Dennis, this is a developer forum. If you want to peddle your software and
> aren't willing to show something besides videos, you're in the wrong place.
>
> Also I'm not going to watch a 15 minute video. You're not selling yourself
> very well, I kindly advise you to move on so this stops clogging my inbox :)
>
> -- Joshua Gross
> Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013
> 414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com
>
> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:12 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>
> Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of fancy
> algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing packages out
> there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been done many
> times before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby!  Besides,
> you are welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my site at
> luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the taking.
>
> I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested
> in being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and
> something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up and
> running.
>
> Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just show
> me your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me your
> breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but, my
> god... I hardly know ye!!!
>
> My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as
> dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover
> trick).  I have also included some basic image file support.
>
> Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU
>
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote:
>
> Code post it else Zzzz
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>
> See the newest features here--> http://www.youtube.**
> com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM 
>
> The current version of the program now includes drag and drop
> functionality of text files from the native desktop straight into the
> browser desktop or (any of the subfolders). The difference between my drag
> and drop and all the HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the
> dropped files immediately become icons that are integrated into the program.
>
> I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so
> you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a
> very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change
> individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged
> down in the details of any particular application, because I always want to
> stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and
> intuitive way to organize our online lives.
>
> Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should be
> no controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  I
> really do need to start getting interested people on board who would like
> to help me push the web forward.  The basic mission statement for the
> venture will basically be that the "old web" (HTML4/version 1.0) is dead
> and gone.  If anyone calls in search of help on their Flintstone era 
> documents with all of their  and  tags laying about, we'll
> just point them in an entirely new direction.  If they still insist on
> doing things the old way, we'll just hang up on them…  This thing is all
> about the future!
>
> We can easily develop libraries of high-level interface widgets that
> people just need to attach event listeners to.  There will be no angle
> brackets in sight!  is>!
>
> Come one, come all, for the thrill of your lives :)
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:36:37 PM UTC-4, Dennis Kane wrote:
>
> I was thinking of just responding  to this old 
> thread,
> in which I talk about the browser based Desktop that I've been working on,
> but the new thing I've been doing for the past week is so superior that I
> thought it deserved a completely new thead.  By the way, I know this forum
> is all about server side Javascript, but there is not really any serious
> place one can go on the web that talks about the client side.  Besides,
> with socket.io & websockets... 

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Karl]

wise words, well phrased, kudos, being friendly doesn't cost anything

El martes, 9 de octubre de 2012 18:06:00 UTC+2, Isaac Schlueter escribió:
>
> Guys, be nice.  Dennis is unusual, sure, but unusual isn't bad.  We're 
> all unusual in some way.  I don't see anything sociopathic or trollish 
> here, just a lot of excitement about a program he's writing, and 
> perhaps a bit of naivety regarding the best ways to go about 
> recruiting contributors. 
>
>
> Dennis, 
>
> The reason you're getting no traction here is that your "I'm going to 
> be a larger than life superhero because of my code, which I want you 
> to help with, and it'll make you rich, but no, you can't see it" 
> matches a *very* common pattern of "crazy person", which we've all 
> seen before.  It's a lot of talk, and no substance.  It's trying to 
> spend credibility on credit, and that's not how credibility works. 
>
> I'd recommend that you assume that no one will take you seriously, and 
> focus on overcoming that, if your goal is actually to be successful 
> and recruit others to your mission of whatever it is you hope to 
> accomplish with your technology.  Of course, if your goal is to get a 
> little bit of attention, and wave your freak flag, well, then bravo, 
> you're doing a wonderful job, please carry on :) 
>
> FWIW, I agree with most of your politics, and wish you the best of 
> success.  You seem like a nice person.  But if you want to recruit 
> coders, write more code, and fewer words, and share it liberally.  The 
> revolution in software already happened, and that's the new paradigm. 
> You will gain more credibility if you become a part of the OSS 
> community before asking it for favors. 
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:10 AM, Joshua Gross 
> > 
> wrote: 
> > Maybe I'll get one, too :) this doesn't seem to be going anywhere 
> though. 
> > 
> > 
> > -- Joshua Gross 
> > Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013 
> > 414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com 
> > 
> > On Oct 9, 2012, at 12:04 AM, Rick Waldron 
> > > 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > Funny thing, I said much the same as you have here and got a gnarly 
> > chastising. 
> > 
> > -Rick 
> > 
> > On Monday, October 8, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Joshua Gross wrote: 
> > 
> > Dennis, this is a developer forum. If you want to peddle your software 
> and 
> > aren't willing to show something besides videos, you're in the wrong 
> place. 
> > 
> > Also I'm not going to watch a 15 minute video. You're not selling 
> yourself 
> > very well, I kindly advise you to move on so this stops clogging my 
> inbox :) 
> > 
> > -- Joshua Gross 
> > Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013 
> > 414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com 
> > 
> > On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:12 PM, Dennis Kane > 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of 
> fancy 
> > algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing packages 
> out 
> > there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been done many 
> > times before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby! 
>  Besides, 
> > you are welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my site at 
> > luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the taking. 
> > 
> > I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested 
> in 
> > being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and 
> > something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up 
> and 
> > running. 
> > 
> > Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just 
> show 
> > me your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me your 
> > breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but, 
> my 
> > god... I hardly know ye!!! 
> > 
> > My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as 
> > dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover 
> > trick).  I have also included some basic image file support. 
> > 
> > Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU 
> > 
> > On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote: 
> > 
> > Code post it else Zzzz 
> > 
> > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote: 
> > 
> > See the newest features here--> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM 
> > 
> > The current version of the program now includes drag and drop 
> functionality 
> > of text files from the native desktop straight into the browser desktop 
> or 
> > (any of the subfolders). The difference between my drag and drop and all 
> the 
> > HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the dropped files 
> immediately 
> > become icons that are integrated into the program. 
> > 
> > I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so 
> > you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a 
> > very basic kind of image editing demo t

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Isaac Schlueter]

Guys, be nice.  Dennis is unusual, sure, but unusual isn't bad.  We're
all unusual in some way.  I don't see anything sociopathic or trollish
here, just a lot of excitement about a program he's writing, and
perhaps a bit of naivety regarding the best ways to go about
recruiting contributors.


Dennis,

The reason you're getting no traction here is that your "I'm going to
be a larger than life superhero because of my code, which I want you
to help with, and it'll make you rich, but no, you can't see it"
matches a *very* common pattern of "crazy person", which we've all
seen before.  It's a lot of talk, and no substance.  It's trying to
spend credibility on credit, and that's not how credibility works.

I'd recommend that you assume that no one will take you seriously, and
focus on overcoming that, if your goal is actually to be successful
and recruit others to your mission of whatever it is you hope to
accomplish with your technology.  Of course, if your goal is to get a
little bit of attention, and wave your freak flag, well, then bravo,
you're doing a wonderful job, please carry on :)

FWIW, I agree with most of your politics, and wish you the best of
success.  You seem like a nice person.  But if you want to recruit
coders, write more code, and fewer words, and share it liberally.  The
revolution in software already happened, and that's the new paradigm.
You will gain more credibility if you become a part of the OSS
community before asking it for favors.


On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:10 AM, Joshua Gross  wrote:
> Maybe I'll get one, too :) this doesn't seem to be going anywhere though.
>
>
> -- Joshua Gross
> Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013
> 414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com
>
> On Oct 9, 2012, at 12:04 AM, Rick Waldron  wrote:
>
> Funny thing, I said much the same as you have here and got a gnarly
> chastising.
>
> -Rick
>
> On Monday, October 8, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Joshua Gross wrote:
>
> Dennis, this is a developer forum. If you want to peddle your software and
> aren't willing to show something besides videos, you're in the wrong place.
>
> Also I'm not going to watch a 15 minute video. You're not selling yourself
> very well, I kindly advise you to move on so this stops clogging my inbox :)
>
> -- Joshua Gross
> Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013
> 414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com
>
> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:12 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>
> Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of fancy
> algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing packages out
> there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been done many
> times before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby!  Besides,
> you are welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my site at
> luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the taking.
>
> I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested in
> being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and
> something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up and
> running.
>
> Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just show
> me your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me your
> breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but, my
> god... I hardly know ye!!!
>
> My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as
> dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover
> trick).  I have also included some basic image file support.
>
> Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU
>
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote:
>
> Code post it else Zzzz
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>
> See the newest features here--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM
>
> The current version of the program now includes drag and drop functionality
> of text files from the native desktop straight into the browser desktop or
> (any of the subfolders). The difference between my drag and drop and all the
> HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the dropped files immediately
> become icons that are integrated into the program.
>
> I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so
> you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a
> very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change
> individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged
> down in the details of any particular application, because I always want to
> stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and intuitive
> way to organize our online lives.
>
> Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should be
> no controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  I really
> do need to start getting interested people on 

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Joshua Gross]

Maybe I'll get one, too :) this doesn't seem to be going anywhere though. 

-- Joshua Gross
Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013
414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com

On Oct 9, 2012, at 12:04 AM, Rick Waldron  wrote:

> Funny thing, I said much the same as you have here and got a gnarly 
> chastising. 
> 
> -Rick
> 
> On Monday, October 8, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Joshua Gross wrote:
> 
>> Dennis, this is a developer forum. If you want to peddle your software and 
>> aren't willing to show something besides videos, you're in the wrong place. 
>> 
>> Also I'm not going to watch a 15 minute video. You're not selling yourself 
>> very well, I kindly advise you to move on so this stops clogging my inbox :)
>> 
>> -- Joshua Gross
>> Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013
>> 414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com
>> 
>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:12 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>> 
>>> Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of fancy 
>>> algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing packages out 
>>> there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been done many 
>>> times before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby!  Besides, 
>>> you are welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my site at 
>>> luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the taking.
>>> 
>>> I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested in 
>>> being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and 
>>> something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up and 
>>> running.
>>> 
>>> Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just show 
>>> me your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me your 
>>> breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but, my 
>>> god... I hardly know ye!!!
>>> 
>>> My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as 
>>> dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover 
>>> trick).  I have also included some basic image file support.
>>> 
>>> Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU
>>> 
>>> On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote:
 
 Code post it else Zzzz
 
 On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
> See the newest features here--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM
> 
> The current version of the program now includes drag and drop 
> functionality of text files from the native desktop straight into the 
> browser desktop or (any of the subfolders). The difference between my 
> drag and drop and all the HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the 
> dropped files immediately become icons that are integrated into the 
> program.
> 
> I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so 
> you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a 
> very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change 
> individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged 
> down in the details of any particular application, because I always want 
> to stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and 
> intuitive way to organize our online lives.
> 
> Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should 
> be no controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  I 
> really do need to start getting interested people on board who would like 
> to help me push the web forward.  The basic mission statement for the 
> venture will basically be that the "old web" (HTML4/version 1.0) is dead 
> and gone.  If anyone calls in search of help on their Flintstone era 
>  documents with all of their  and  tags laying about, 
> we'll just point them in an entirely new direction.  If they still insist 
> on doing things the old way, we'll just hang up on them…  This thing is 
> all about the future!
> 
> We can easily develop libraries of high-level interface widgets that 
> people just need to attach event listeners to.  There will be no angle 
> brackets in sight! 
> !
> 
> Come one, come all, for the thrill of your lives :)
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:36:37 PM UTC-4, Dennis Kane wrote:
>> I was thinking of just responding  to this old thread, in which I talk 
>> about the browser based Desktop that I've been working on, but the new 
>> thing I've been doing for the past week is so superior that I thought it 
>> deserved a completely new thead.  By the way, I know this forum is all 
>> about server side Javascript, but there is not really any serious place 
>> one can go on the web that talks about the client side.  Besides, with 
>> socket.io & we

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Rick Waldron]

Funny thing, I said much the same as you have here and got a gnarly chastising. 
  

-Rick


On Monday, October 8, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Joshua Gross wrote:

> Dennis, this is a developer forum. If you want to peddle your software and 
> aren't willing to show something besides videos, you're in the wrong place.  
>  
> Also I'm not going to watch a 15 minute video. You're not selling yourself 
> very well, I kindly advise you to move on so this stops clogging my inbox :)
>  
> -- Joshua Gross
> Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013
> 414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com
>  
>  
> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:12 PM, Dennis Kane  (mailto:dkan...@gmail.com)> wrote:
>  
> > Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of fancy 
> > algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing packages out 
> > there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been done many 
> > times before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby!  Besides, 
> > you are welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my site at 
> > luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the taking.
> >  
> > I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested in 
> > being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and 
> > something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up and 
> > running.
> >  
> > Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just show 
> > me your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me your 
> > breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but, my 
> > god... I hardly know ye!!!
> >  
> > My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as 
> > dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover 
> > trick).  I have also included some basic image file support.
> >  
> > Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU
> > On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote:
> > > Code post it else Zzzz
> > >  
> > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
> > > > See the newest features here--> 
> > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM
> > > >  
> > > > The current version of the program now includes drag and drop 
> > > > functionality of text files from the native desktop straight into the 
> > > > browser desktop or (any of the subfolders). The difference between my 
> > > > drag and drop and all the HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that 
> > > > the dropped files immediately become icons that are integrated into the 
> > > > program.  
> > > >  
> > > > I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so 
> > > > you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do 
> > > > a very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change 
> > > > individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get 
> > > > bogged down in the details of any particular application, because I 
> > > > always want to stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally 
> > > > powerful and intuitive way to organize our online lives.  
> > > >  
> > > > Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should 
> > > > be no controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  
> > > > I really do need to start getting interested people on board who would 
> > > > like to help me push the web forward.  The basic mission statement for 
> > > > the venture will basically be that the "old web" (HTML4/version 1.0) is 
> > > > dead and gone.  If anyone calls in search of help on their Flintstone 
> > > > era  documents with all of their  and  tags laying 
> > > > about, we'll just point them in an entirely new direction.  If they 
> > > > still insist on doing things the old way, we'll just hang up on them…  
> > > > This thing is all about the future!  
> > > >  
> > > > We can easily develop libraries of high-level interface widgets that 
> > > > people just need to attach event listeners to.  There will be no angle 
> > > > brackets in sight! 
> > > > !  
> > > >  
> > > > Come one, come all, for the thrill of your lives :)
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > > On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:36:37 PM UTC-4, Dennis Kane wrote:
> > > > > I was thinking of just responding  to this old thread 
> > > > > (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/nodejs/bEhSbsm24Y4),
> > > > >  in which I talk about the browser based Desktop that I've been 
> > > > > working on, but the new thing I've been doing for the past week is so 
> > > > > superior that I thought it deserved a completely new thead.  By the 
> > > > > way, I know this forum is all about server side Javascript, but there 
> > > > > is not really any serious place one can go on the web that talks 
> > > > > about the client side.  Besides, with socket.io (http://socket.io) & 
> > > > > websockets... I 

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Joshua Gross]

Dennis, this is a developer forum. If you want to peddle your software and 
aren't willing to show something besides videos, you're in the wrong place. 

Also I'm not going to watch a 15 minute video. You're not selling yourself very 
well, I kindly advise you to move on so this stops clogging my inbox :)

-- Joshua Gross
Christian / SpanDeX / BA Candidate of Computer Science, UW-Madison 2013
414-377-1041 / http://www.joshisgross.com

On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:12 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:

> Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of fancy 
> algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing packages out 
> there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been done many times 
> before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby!  Besides, you are 
> welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my site at 
> luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the taking.
> 
> I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested in 
> being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and 
> something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up and 
> running.
> 
> Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just show me 
> your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me your 
> breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but, my 
> god... I hardly know ye!!!
> 
> My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as 
> dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover 
> trick).  I have also included some basic image file support.
> 
> Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU
> 
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote:
> Code post it else Zzzz
> 
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
> See the newest features here--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM
> 
> The current version of the program now includes drag and drop functionality 
> of text files from the native desktop straight into the browser desktop or 
> (any of the subfolders). The difference between my drag and drop and all the 
> HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the dropped files immediately 
> become icons that are integrated into the program.
> 
> I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so 
> you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a very 
> basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change individual 
> pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged down in the 
> details of any particular application, because I always want to stay focused 
> on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and intuitive way to 
> organize our online lives.
> 
> Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should be no 
> controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  I really do 
> need to start getting interested people on board who would like to help me 
> push the web forward.  The basic mission statement for the venture will 
> basically be that the "old web" (HTML4/version 1.0) is dead and gone.  If 
> anyone calls in search of help on their Flintstone era  documents with 
> all of their  and  tags laying about, we'll just point them in 
> an entirely new direction.  If they still insist on doing things the old way, 
> we'll just hang up on them…  This thing is all about the future!
> 
> We can easily develop libraries of high-level interface widgets that people 
> just need to attach event listeners to.  There will be no angle brackets in 
> sight! !
> 
> Come one, come all, for the thrill of your lives :)
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:36:37 PM UTC-4, Dennis Kane wrote:
> I was thinking of just responding  to this old thread, in which I talk about 
> the browser based Desktop that I've been working on, but the new thing I've 
> been doing for the past week is so superior that I thought it deserved a 
> completely new thead.  By the way, I know this forum is all about server side 
> Javascript, but there is not really any serious place one can go on the web 
> that talks about the client side.  Besides, with socket.io & websockets... I 
> don't really make much of a distinction between client and server anymore.  I 
> just know that there's no reason to do a document.getElementById() call in 
> node :)
> 
> This new thing is a totally shocking clone of OS X.  I knew I was going to 
> have to start over from the ground up, because my previous code base was so 
> sh*tty, haha!  I have really been concentrating on getting a nice, tight 
> little API that developers will positively drool over.  I don't want to make 
> this thing publicly available for many reasons... but you can check out a 
> youtube vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq_W19QokXk) that shows it in 
> action, and I still have my same old crappy prototype online 

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Sotonin]

+1 for this

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Rick Waldron  wrote:

>  Is it possible to have this address banned?
>
> -Rick
>
> On Monday, October 8, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Dennis Kane wrote:
>
> Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of fancy
> algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing packages out
> there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been done many
> times before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby!  Besides,
> you are welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my site at
> luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the taking.
>
> I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested
> in being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and
> something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up and
> running.
>
> Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just show
> me your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me your
> breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but, my
> god... I hardly know ye!!!
>
> My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as
> dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover
> trick).  I have also included some basic image file support.
>
> Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU
>
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote:
>
> Code post it else Zzzz
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>
> See the newest features here--> http://www.youtube.**
> com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM 
>
> The current version of the program now includes drag and drop
> functionality of text files from the native desktop straight into the
> browser desktop or (any of the subfolders). The difference between my drag
> and drop and all the HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the
> dropped files immediately become icons that are integrated into the program.
>
> I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so
> you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a
> very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change
> individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged
> down in the details of any particular application, because I always want to
> stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and
> intuitive way to organize our online lives.
>
> Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should be
> no controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  I
> really do need to start getting interested people on board who would like
> to help me push the web forward.  The basic mission statement for the
> venture will basically be that the "old web" (HTML4/version 1.0) is dead
> and gone.  If anyone calls in search of help on their Flintstone era 
> documents with all of their  and  tags laying about, we'll
> just point them in an entirely new direction.  If they still insist on
> doing things the old way, we'll just hang up on them…  This thing is all
> about the future!
>
> We can easily develop libraries of high-level interface widgets that
> people just need to attach event listeners to.  There will be no angle
> brackets in sight!  is>!
>
> Come one, come all, for the thrill of your lives :)
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:36:37 PM UTC-4, Dennis Kane wrote:
>
> I was thinking of just responding  to this old 
> thread,
> in which I talk about the browser based Desktop that I've been working on,
> but the new thing I've been doing for the past week is so superior that I
> thought it deserved a completely new thead.  By the way, I know this forum
> is all about server side Javascript, but there is not really any serious
> place one can go on the web that talks about the client side.  Besides,
> with socket.io & websockets... I don't really make much of a distinction
> between client and server anymore.  I just know that there's no reason to
> do a document.getElementById() call in node :)
>
> This new thing is a totally shocking clone of OS X.  I knew I was going to
> have to start over from the ground up, because my previous code base was so
> sh*tty, haha!  I have really been concentrating on getting a nice, tight
> little API that developers will positively drool over.  I don't want to
> make this thing publicly available for many reasons... but you can check
> out a youtube vid 
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq_W19QokXk)
>  that
> shows it in action, and I still have my same old crappy prototype online at
> http://luvluvluv.info.  Well, hopefully this is proof that I am able to
> do some cool stuff, and hopefully summa yous will want to start being my
> friend now, LOL!

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Rick Waldron]

Is it possible to have this address banned?  

-Rick


On Monday, October 8, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Dennis Kane wrote:

> Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of fancy 
> algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing packages out 
> there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been done many times 
> before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby!  Besides, you are 
> welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my site at 
> luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the taking.
>  
> I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested in 
> being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and 
> something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up and 
> running.
>  
> Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just show me 
> your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me your 
> breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but, my 
> god... I hardly know ye!!!
>  
> My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as 
> dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover 
> trick).  I have also included some basic image file support.
>  
> Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote:
> > Code post it else Zzzz
> >  
> > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
> > > See the newest features here--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM
> > >  
> > > The current version of the program now includes drag and drop 
> > > functionality of text files from the native desktop straight into the 
> > > browser desktop or (any of the subfolders). The difference between my 
> > > drag and drop and all the HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the 
> > > dropped files immediately become icons that are integrated into the 
> > > program.  
> > >  
> > > I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so 
> > > you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a 
> > > very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change 
> > > individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged 
> > > down in the details of any particular application, because I always want 
> > > to stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and 
> > > intuitive way to organize our online lives.  
> > >  
> > > Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should 
> > > be no controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  I 
> > > really do need to start getting interested people on board who would like 
> > > to help me push the web forward.  The basic mission statement for the 
> > > venture will basically be that the "old web" (HTML4/version 1.0) is dead 
> > > and gone.  If anyone calls in search of help on their Flintstone era 
> > >  documents with all of their  and  tags laying about, 
> > > we'll just point them in an entirely new direction.  If they still insist 
> > > on doing things the old way, we'll just hang up on them…  This thing is 
> > > all about the future!  
> > >  
> > > We can easily develop libraries of high-level interface widgets that 
> > > people just need to attach event listeners to.  There will be no angle 
> > > brackets in sight! 
> > > !  
> > >  
> > > Come one, come all, for the thrill of your lives :)
> > >  
> > >  
> > > On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:36:37 PM UTC-4, Dennis Kane wrote:
> > > > I was thinking of just responding  to this old thread 
> > > > (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/nodejs/bEhSbsm24Y4),
> > > >  in which I talk about the browser based Desktop that I've been working 
> > > > on, but the new thing I've been doing for the past week is so superior 
> > > > that I thought it deserved a completely new thead.  By the way, I know 
> > > > this forum is all about server side Javascript, but there is not really 
> > > > any serious place one can go on the web that talks about the client 
> > > > side.  Besides, with socket.io (http://socket.io) & websockets... I 
> > > > don't really make much of a distinction between client and server 
> > > > anymore.  I just know that there's no reason to do a 
> > > > document.getElementById() call in node :)
> > > >  
> > > > This new thing is a totally shocking clone of OS X.  I knew I was going 
> > > > to have to start over from the ground up, because my previous code base 
> > > > was so sh*tty, haha!  I have really been concentrating on getting a 
> > > > nice, tight little API that developers will positively drool over.  I 
> > > > don't want to make this thing publicly available for many reasons... 
> > > > but you can check out a youtube vid 
> > > > (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq_W19QokXk) that shows it in action, 
> > > > and I still have my same 

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Dennis Kane]

Why do you want the code so bad?  It's not like there's any kind of fancy 
algorithms at work.  There are many many open source windowing packages out 
there.  It's not exactly rocket science, this.  It's all been done many 
times before.  The only difference is that this one is *my* baby!  Besides, 
you are welcome to all the code of my desktop prototype on my site at 
luvluvluv.info... it's just sitting there on the server for the taking.

I am mainly using this thing as blackmail to get people to be interested in 
being my friend.  I want to do some real world community building, and 
something like this will go a long way to get a cooperative business up and 
running.

Furthermore... you do realize that asking another programmer to "just show 
me your code" is exactly the same as asking a girl to "just show me your 
breasts", right?  I mean, I have nothing against it in principle, but, my 
god... I hardly know ye!!!

My lastest work includes that rubber-band selection feature as well as 
dropping icons directly onto folder icons (with that "open folder" hover 
trick).  I have also included some basic image file support.

Latest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL5r0b7WWvU

On Friday, October 5, 2012 5:56:26 PM UTC-4, sotonin wrote:
>
> Code post it else Zzzz
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane 
> > wrote:
>
>> See the newest features here--> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM
>>
>> The current version of the program now includes drag and drop 
>> functionality of text files from the native desktop straight into the 
>> browser desktop or (any of the subfolders). The difference between my drag 
>> and drop and all the HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the 
>> dropped files immediately become icons that are integrated into the program.
>>
>> I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so 
>> you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a 
>> very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change 
>> individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged 
>> down in the details of any particular application, because I always want to 
>> stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and 
>> intuitive way to organize our online lives.
>>
>> Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should 
>> be no controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  I 
>> really do need to start getting interested people on board who would like 
>> to help me push the web forward.  The basic mission statement for the 
>> venture will basically be that the "old web" (HTML4/version 1.0) is dead 
>> and gone.  If anyone calls in search of help on their Flintstone era  
>> documents with all of their  and  tags laying about, we'll 
>> just point them in an entirely new direction.  If they still insist on 
>> doing things the old way, we'll just hang up on them…  This thing is all 
>> about the future!
>>
>> We can easily develop libraries of high-level interface widgets that 
>> people just need to attach event listeners to.  There will be no angle 
>> brackets in sight! !
>>
>> Come one, come all, for the thrill of your lives :)
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:36:37 PM UTC-4, Dennis Kane wrote:
>>
>>> I was thinking of just responding  to this old 
>>> thread,
>>>  
>>> in which I talk about the browser based Desktop that I've been working on, 
>>> but the new thing I've been doing for the past week is so superior that I 
>>> thought it deserved a completely new thead.  By the way, I know this forum 
>>> is all about server side Javascript, but there is not really any serious 
>>> place one can go on the web that talks about the client side.  Besides, 
>>> with socket.io & websockets... I don't really make much of a 
>>> distinction between client and server anymore.  I just know that there's no 
>>> reason to do a document.getElementById() call in node :)
>>>
>>> This new thing is a totally shocking clone of OS X.  I knew I was going 
>>> to have to start over from the ground up, because my previous code base was 
>>> so sh*tty, haha!  I have really been concentrating on getting a nice, tight 
>>> little API that developers will positively drool over.  I don't want to 
>>> make this thing publicly available for many reasons... but you can check 
>>> out a youtube vid 
>>> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=Tq_W19QokXk)
>>>  that 
>>> shows it in action, and I still have my same old crappy prototype online at 
>>> http://luvluvluv.info.  Well, hopefully this is proof that I am able to 
>>> do some cool stuff, and hopefully summa yous will want to start being my 
>>> friend now, LOL!!!
>>>
>>> And get this... the current, uncompressed js file size is only 54kb!
>>>
>>  -- 
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>> Posting 

[nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Stephen Handley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udNHsk57f24

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Sotonin]

Code post it else Zzzz

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Kane  wrote:

> See the newest features here--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM
>
> The current version of the program now includes drag and drop
> functionality of text files from the native desktop straight into the
> browser desktop or (any of the subfolders). The difference between my drag
> and drop and all the HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the
> dropped files immediately become icons that are integrated into the program.
>
> I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so
> you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a
> very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change
> individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged
> down in the details of any particular application, because I always want to
> stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and
> intuitive way to organize our online lives.
>
> Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should be
> no controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  I
> really do need to start getting interested people on board who would like
> to help me push the web forward.  The basic mission statement for the
> venture will basically be that the "old web" (HTML4/version 1.0) is dead
> and gone.  If anyone calls in search of help on their Flintstone era 
> documents with all of their  and  tags laying about, we'll
> just point them in an entirely new direction.  If they still insist on
> doing things the old way, we'll just hang up on them…  This thing is all
> about the future!
>
> We can easily develop libraries of high-level interface widgets that
> people just need to attach event listeners to.  There will be no angle
> brackets in sight! !
>
> Come one, come all, for the thrill of your lives :)
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:36:37 PM UTC-4, Dennis Kane wrote:
>
>> I was thinking of just responding  to this old 
>> thread,
>> in which I talk about the browser based Desktop that I've been working on,
>> but the new thing I've been doing for the past week is so superior that I
>> thought it deserved a completely new thead.  By the way, I know this forum
>> is all about server side Javascript, but there is not really any serious
>> place one can go on the web that talks about the client side.  Besides,
>> with socket.io & websockets... I don't really make much of a distinction
>> between client and server anymore.  I just know that there's no reason to
>> do a document.getElementById() call in node :)
>>
>> This new thing is a totally shocking clone of OS X.  I knew I was going
>> to have to start over from the ground up, because my previous code base was
>> so sh*tty, haha!  I have really been concentrating on getting a nice, tight
>> little API that developers will positively drool over.  I don't want to
>> make this thing publicly available for many reasons... but you can check
>> out a youtube vid 
>> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=Tq_W19QokXk)
>>  that
>> shows it in action, and I still have my same old crappy prototype online at
>> http://luvluvluv.info.  Well, hopefully this is proof that I am able to
>> do some cool stuff, and hopefully summa yous will want to start being my
>> friend now, LOL!!!
>>
>> And get this... the current, uncompressed js file size is only 54kb!
>>
>  --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

[nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Dennis Kane]

See the newest features here--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_2DwueGLM

The current version of the program now includes drag and drop functionality 
of text files from the native desktop straight into the browser desktop or 
(any of the subfolders). The difference between my drag and drop and all 
the HTML5 demos that you see on the web is that the dropped files 
immediately become icons that are integrated into the program.

I will soon start working on getting multimedia icons/files working, so 
you'll be able to drop those directly in too.  Then I will probably do a 
very basic kind of image editing demo that will allow you to change 
individual pixels or some such nonsense.  But I don't want to get bogged 
down in the details of any particular application, because I always want to 
stay focused on the big picture of creating a totally powerful and 
intuitive way to organize our online lives.

Anyway, I know I am quite a controversial figure here, but there should be 
no controversy that this thing is just about ready for prime time.  I 
really do need to start getting interested people on board who would like 
to help me push the web forward.  The basic mission statement for the 
venture will basically be that the "old web" (HTML4/version 1.0) is dead 
and gone.  If anyone calls in search of help on their Flintstone era  
documents with all of their  and  tags laying about, we'll 
just point them in an entirely new direction.  If they still insist on 
doing things the old way, we'll just hang up on them…  This thing is all 
about the future!

We can easily develop libraries of high-level interface widgets that people 
just need to attach event listeners to.  There will be no angle brackets in 
sight! !

Come one, come all, for the thrill of your lives :)


On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:36:37 PM UTC-4, Dennis Kane wrote:
>
> I was thinking of just responding  to this old 
> thread,
>  
> in which I talk about the browser based Desktop that I've been working on, 
> but the new thing I've been doing for the past week is so superior that I 
> thought it deserved a completely new thead.  By the way, I know this forum 
> is all about server side Javascript, but there is not really any serious 
> place one can go on the web that talks about the client side.  Besides, 
> with socket.io & websockets... I don't really make much of a distinction 
> between client and server anymore.  I just know that there's no reason to 
> do a document.getElementById() call in node :)
>
> This new thing is a totally shocking clone of OS X.  I knew I was going to 
> have to start over from the ground up, because my previous code base was so 
> sh*tty, haha!  I have really been concentrating on getting a nice, tight 
> little API that developers will positively drool over.  I don't want to 
> make this thing publicly available for many reasons... but you can check 
> out a youtube vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq_W19QokXk) that shows 
> it in action, and I still have my same old crappy prototype online at 
> http://luvluvluv.info.  Well, hopefully this is proof that I am able to 
> do some cool stuff, and hopefully summa yous will want to start being my 
> friend now, LOL!!!
>
> And get this... the current, uncompressed js file size is only 54kb!
>

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Chad Engler]

I was getting mad up until I read "I have to turn myself into a kind of
heroic figure in the minds of the average Web using public." And then I
just couldn't stop laughing the rest of the way through.

 

-Chad

 

From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Rick Waldron
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 12:03 PM
To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
Subject: [*** SPAM ***] - Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect
client to a node server! - Bayesian Filter detected spam

 

Something tells me that we're being mega-trolled.

 

 

 

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Sotonin  wrote:

"Respectfully, I am not the typical poster here.  I am a revolutionary
and a trailblazer, and everything I do is geared for maximum effect."

 

This sentence perfectly illustrates why your thread received almost 0
real interest from the beginning. You need to adjust your attitude if
you want to get helpful knowledgable folks interested in your project.
You are just coming off as a "typical" ego-centric lone wolf programmer
whom thinks he is better than everybody else. I don't know you, but with
nothing but long winded e-mails that read like marketing speak, I don't
feel any desire to get to know you or your project (future projects).

 

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Dennis Kane  wrote:

Respectfully, I am not the typical poster here.  I am a revolutionary
and a trailblazer, and everything I do is geared for maximum effect.  I
have precisely zero interest in working for paychecks or even creating
something for the purpose of selling out to a corporation.  I am
interested in starting a truly socialist movement... one whose
participants understand that like it or not, we are constantly moving
into a post-capitalist future.

 

This ultimately just means that the historical corporate/ad buying
business model will slowly give way to models that have the notion of
"social capital" at their core.  For any arbitrarily complicated web
domain that does not live and die by the ad revenue "sword" -- for
example a university or a municipality -- there is the ever present
problem of getting naive users to navigate the domain.

 

Today's websites typically do not use much logic when organizing their
resources.  It all comes down to physical page space.  So if one page
becomes too crowded with content, then another page must be created.
Then the problem reduces to how to develop a menu of links that allows
to user to navigate to the appropriate resource.  At the moment, there
are no standards as to how a site should organize its content.  Everyone
has to roll their own navigation solution, and when happening upon a new
domain for the first time, a user has to spend an arbitrary amount of
time parsing the visual layout, in order to create a site tree in their
minds.

 

For everyone who says that the desktop environment is simply a
"metaphor", I would have to disagree.  Our modern desktop GUI's are the
result of a evolutionary process... a process that has resulted in the
most intuitive and powerful of navigation systems.  All that I am saying
is that we stop thinking of the client-side as a mere afterthought.  For
anyone who wants to devote their efforts towards codifying a standard
client-side browser web-app interface, there will be countless service
providers who will breathe a sigh of relief that they will no longer be
forced to worry about layout and navigation.

 

And yes, I know there have been many many efforts in the past that have
tried to bring the desktop experience into the browser.  The first
obvious problem is that Javascript has only recently become performant
enough to allow there to be pretty much zero difference from the native
OS in terms of icon/window handling.  

 

Next, all of those other efforts were pre-HTML5, which pretty much
forced the applications to rely upon a back end for the purpose of
saving state.  But now, there are so many different ways to save to the
client, it actually makes me blush!

 

And last but not least, we are really talking about doing a kind radical
paradigm inversion that conservative corporate interests just have no
interest in.  The politics of the modern WWW is such that most websites
are completely in service of the corporate bottom line.  And since
corporations have historically been all about buying up ad space/ad time
in whatever medium it can (print, radio, TV...), the Web has inevitably
found itself as having this exact same kind of role.

 

So there really is not "allowed" to be very much creativity on the Web,
if this creativity would only confuse/aggravate the corporate bosses who
are just trying to hawk their wares to as many naive consumers as
possible.  The result of all of this political mumbo-jumbo is that the
lowly web developer is forced to think of him/herself as a mere layout
designer... such that the given layout gives suffi

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Mark Hahn]

Lay off.

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 6:07 AM, Sotonin  wrote:

> This guy has future serial killer written all over him. Sociopath much?
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Dennis Kane  wrote:
>
>> I hope you are all aware that I fully expect the reception that I have
>> gotten here.  The accusations of mental illness and trollishness are fully
>> expected.  The only problem is that I have a real life outside of
>> professional programming circles.  I know what it takes to make real things
>> happen in this world.  The fact is that it requires much, much more that
>> mere programming talent to have any kind of impact.  The importance of fact
>> that I put my physical ass on the line in the *real world* in order to make
>> profound connections with *real people* is something that the vast majority
>> of you will never be able to comprehend, which is extremely sad.  I mean, I
>> am here in the deep south, for chrissake, where there are so many
>> hillbillies with shotguns who are constantly on the lookout for guys like
>> me to sneer at and intimidate.
>>
>> So please, be my guest and continue to ridicule in those pithy, sardonic
>> ways that have been perfected over the years on message forums like this.
>>  I am beholden to no one, and it will remain like that.  But please
>> understand that people are falling head over heels for me on a mass level
>> here in the *real world*.  It is just a matter of time before I am able to
>> command their attention and educate them about the Web and about computing
>> in general... so that they will eventually need precisely zero of the
>> services that any of you are offering.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> --
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>> Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "nodejs" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>>
>
>  --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Sotonin]

This guy has future serial killer written all over him. Sociopath much?

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Dennis Kane  wrote:

> I hope you are all aware that I fully expect the reception that I have
> gotten here.  The accusations of mental illness and trollishness are fully
> expected.  The only problem is that I have a real life outside of
> professional programming circles.  I know what it takes to make real things
> happen in this world.  The fact is that it requires much, much more that
> mere programming talent to have any kind of impact.  The importance of fact
> that I put my physical ass on the line in the *real world* in order to make
> profound connections with *real people* is something that the vast majority
> of you will never be able to comprehend, which is extremely sad.  I mean, I
> am here in the deep south, for chrissake, where there are so many
> hillbillies with shotguns who are constantly on the lookout for guys like
> me to sneer at and intimidate.
>
> So please, be my guest and continue to ridicule in those pithy, sardonic
> ways that have been perfected over the years on message forums like this.
>  I am beholden to no one, and it will remain like that.  But please
> understand that people are falling head over heels for me on a mass level
> here in the *real world*.  It is just a matter of time before I am able to
> command their attention and educate them about the Web and about computing
> in general... so that they will eventually need precisely zero of the
> services that any of you are offering.
>
> Cheers!
>
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

[nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Dennis Kane]

I hope you are all aware that I fully expect the reception that I have 
gotten here.  The accusations of mental illness and trollishness are fully 
expected.  The only problem is that I have a real life outside of 
professional programming circles.  I know what it takes to make real things 
happen in this world.  The fact is that it requires much, much more that 
mere programming talent to have any kind of impact.  The importance of fact 
that I put my physical ass on the line in the *real world* in order to make 
profound connections with *real people* is something that the vast majority 
of you will never be able to comprehend, which is extremely sad.  I mean, I 
am here in the deep south, for chrissake, where there are so many 
hillbillies with shotguns who are constantly on the lookout for guys like 
me to sneer at and intimidate.

So please, be my guest and continue to ridicule in those pithy, sardonic 
ways that have been perfected over the years on message forums like this. 
 I am beholden to no one, and it will remain like that.  But please 
understand that people are falling head over heels for me on a mass level 
here in the *real world*.  It is just a matter of time before I am able to 
command their attention and educate them about the Web and about computing 
in general... so that they will eventually need precisely zero of the 
services that any of you are offering.

Cheers!

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[JohnLeo Zimmer]

I'd suggest lithium.  But he probably won't take it voluntarily while he's
having so much fun.

GrpZ

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

[nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Dennis Kane]

Respectfully, I am not the typical poster here.  I am a revolutionary and a 
trailblazer, and everything I do is geared for maximum effect.  I have 
precisely zero interest in working for paychecks or even creating something 
for the purpose of selling out to a corporation.  I am interested in 
starting a truly socialist movement... one whose participants understand 
that like it or not, we are constantly moving into a post-capitalist future.

This ultimately just means that the historical corporate/ad buying business 
model will slowly give way to models that have the notion of "social 
capital" at their core.  For any arbitrarily complicated web domain that 
does not live and die by the ad revenue "sword" -- for example a university 
or a municipality -- there is the ever present problem of getting naive 
users to navigate the domain.

Today's websites typically do not use much logic when organizing their 
resources.  It all comes down to physical page space.  So if one page 
becomes too crowded with content, then another page must be created.  Then 
the problem reduces to how to develop a menu of links that allows to user 
to navigate to the appropriate resource.  At the moment, there are no 
standards as to how a site should organize its content.  Everyone has to 
roll their own navigation solution, and when happening upon a new domain 
for the first time, a user has to spend an arbitrary amount of time parsing 
the visual layout, in order to create a site tree in their minds.

For everyone who says that the desktop environment is simply a "metaphor", 
I would have to disagree.  Our modern desktop GUI's are the result of a 
evolutionary process... a process that has resulted in the most intuitive 
and powerful of navigation systems.  All that I am saying is that we stop 
thinking of the client-side as a mere afterthought.  For anyone who wants 
to devote their efforts towards codifying a standard client-side browser 
web-app interface, there will be countless service providers who will 
breathe a sigh of relief that they will no longer be forced to worry about 
layout and navigation.

And yes, I know there have been many many efforts in the past that have 
tried to bring the desktop experience into the browser.  The first obvious 
problem is that Javascript has only recently become performant enough to 
allow there to be pretty much zero difference from the native OS in terms 
of icon/window handling.  

Next, all of those other efforts were pre-HTML5, which pretty much forced 
the applications to rely upon a back end for the purpose of saving state. 
 But now, there are so many different ways to save to the client, it 
actually makes me blush!

And last but not least, we are really talking about doing a kind radical 
paradigm inversion that conservative corporate interests just have no 
interest in.  The politics of the modern WWW is such that most websites are 
completely in service of the corporate bottom line.  And since corporations 
have historically been all about buying up ad space/ad time in whatever 
medium it can (print, radio, TV...), the Web has inevitably found itself as 
having this exact same kind of role.

So there really is not "allowed" to be very much creativity on the Web, if 
this creativity would only confuse/aggravate the corporate bosses who are 
just trying to hawk their wares to as many naive consumers as possible. 
 The result of all of this political mumbo-jumbo is that the lowly web 
developer is forced to think of him/herself as a mere layout designer... 
such that the given layout gives sufficient prominence to whatever ad space 
it is trying to sell.  So the Web becomes nothing but a series of static 
magazine-like page layouts.  The only difference being that Web pages have 
magic "hyperlinks" that quickly move us between arbitrary pages.

In this case, the programming language of the Web (Javascript) is 
completely in service of the thing (the DOM) that allows for the 
representation of the layouts.  The paradigm inversion ultimately comes 
down to making the layout representations completely in service of the 
programming language.  The popular view is that Javascript exists primarily 
to allow for popup menus and client-side form validation.  This view holds 
that Javascript is fundamentally incapable of allowing for the kind of 
functionality that I have demonstrated.

So anyone who tries to do what I am attempting must be fully aware of all 
of these issues, and must have the appropriate battle plan in place. 
 Anyone who simply has the "bright idea" to start using Javascript in order 
to mimic desktop functionality is pretty much doomed to irrelevance if they 
are not able to mount a good enough challenge against the corporate 
interests of yore.

Which brings me back to the original point I made on this post.  In order 
to pull off this paradigm shift, I realize that I have to become a "larger 
than life" figure.  I have to turn myself into a kind of heroic figu

[nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[cayasso]

I think Denis reminded us (or me at least) what the browser can do and what 
is possible, I think taking it to the next level would be to show both 
worlds web like and desktop like but working together (how would that 
interface be?) for a better user experience, better usability,etc, its all 
about facilitating users life, I am a fan of apple for this same reason, 
apple have done a great job with its new iPhone 5, everything on it has a 
use, its not there just to be.

Any way good luck Denis! 

JB

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:36:37 PM UTC-6, Dennis Kane wrote:
>
> I was thinking of just responding  to this old 
> thread,
>  
> in which I talk about the browser based Desktop that I've been working on, 
> but the new thing I've been doing for the past week is so superior that I 
> thought it deserved a completely new thead.  By the way, I know this forum 
> is all about server side Javascript, but there is not really any serious 
> place one can go on the web that talks about the client side.  Besides, 
> with socket.io & websockets... I don't really make much of a distinction 
> between client and server anymore.  I just know that there's no reason to 
> do a document.getElementById() call in node :)
>
> This new thing is a totally shocking clone of OS X.  I knew I was going to 
> have to start over from the ground up, because my previous code base was so 
> sh*tty, haha!  I have really been concentrating on getting a nice, tight 
> little API that developers will positively drool over.  I don't want to 
> make this thing publicly available for many reasons... but you can check 
> out a youtube vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq_W19QokXk) that shows 
> it in action, and I still have my same old crappy prototype online at 
> http://luvluvluv.info.  Well, hopefully this is proof that I am able to 
> do some cool stuff, and hopefully summa yous will want to start being my 
> friend now, LOL!!!
>
> And get this... the current, uncompressed js file size is only 54kb!
>

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Baz]

I really like Chrome's "create application shortcut" feature. It lets you
treat a website more like an application, by giving it it's own taskbar
item (win7), branded icon, separate context (i.e. you can be logged into 2
different gmail accounts in separate app instances - unlike with tabs), and
reduced chrome (no tabs, address bar, bookmarks, etc.). I normally have my
personal gmail, work gmail, calendar, google docs, home ip camera viewer,
cloud9 ide, github, facebook and twitter open in this way (all with their
own clearly identifiable icons). It needn't be said that eventually there
will be an online alternative to almost every app, and that lots of people
will be completely online.

In that case, people are going to need a way to see and manage all their
apps, a starting point. Today we use a desktop metaphor for that, which has
been optimized for decades. I can imagine users finding an online version
of that for their online apps just as useful. Their cloud apps would be
neatly organized, iconized and available to launch. Their cloud documents
and cloud media could be viewable and playable with just a few clicks.
There could be tools for app discovery and "installation". All accessible
from any machine, of course.

I wouldn't bet against a promising scrappy start-up in it for the long-haul
pursuing "online desktop" dominance. A brave founder could burst on the
scene and declare themselves the first person to live completely on the
cloud, giving up all traditional apps. Monetization would come from
integration and discovery of content providers (i.e. spotify, netflix,
etc.). Judging from the video (I thought it was well done), and if the code
holds up, Dennis looks like the technical lead. Open req's: "business
co-founder", "investor co-founder" and some devs.

Baz

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Stewart Mckinney]

That's pretty much my take. It's nice to see he is enthusiastic about
his endeavors, and I wish him the best of luck, but for me if you are not
going to show me any code, why are you posting it in this forum?

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Sotonin  wrote:

> I've kept quiet on this thread to see how it plays out. I was waiting for
> the OP to finally post something similar to "Why is everybody ignoring me
> why isn't there any interest?". Now that it's happened, here's my 2 cents.
>
> While I admit It looks neat from the YouTube video, It's just a gimmick.
> There's been numerous web desktop projects throughout the years and they
> all fail to garner enough real interest to go anywhere. Quite frankly there
> are so many UI libraries out there for building nice UI that nothing in
> your demo is really that revolutionary at all. Node has been around a while
> for doing the file IO, UI libraries are plentiful. In fact the only thing
> "special" about your demo is that it's a Mac OS clone... (Good luck open
> sourcing something thats 100% Apple copyrighted material.). It also doesn't
> help the OPs general attitude throughout all his posts is "Everything else
> sucks, my stuff is magical". Very reminiscent of Steve Jobs. Adjusting your
> tone a little and you might have gotten a little more fish biting.
>
> That said, I have always been interested in the web desktop type projects,
> just not interested enough to contribute. I like to see the results and
> code. (This is a programming mailing list afterall, nobody cares much about
> youtube videos, we want to see code)
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>
>> Yes that IS much better, thank you for clearing that up and I am sure OP
>> will respond to that in a more positive fashion.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
>>>
>>> The term constructive criticism which is always
>>> welcome innately suggests that there is a better alternative idea or path
>>> that could be taken. Now logic would also suggest that the person making
>>> this criticism have at least an inkling of what that might be.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been really patient with your aggro commentary, but it's clear to
>>> me that you're not reading my responses in their entirety.
>>>
>>> 1. I'm definitely interested in the OPs project.
>>>
>>> 2. YouTube videos do not satisfy my interests as a programmer and
>>> software engineer.
>>>
>>> 3. I want to see some code, that will be exciting
>>>
>>>
>>> Hopefully I've made myself perfectly clear this time.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Mark Hahn wrote:
>>>
>>> > I have never found negative comments to be helpful,
>>>
>>> I respectfully disagree.  Informed opinions should be welcome here.
>>>
>>>
>>> +1 Informed and critical opinions are necessary for broader growth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>>>
>>> I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a
>>> practical way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit
>>> harsh and I was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments to be
>>> helpful, I also don't assume that I can see the direction that something
>>> will take. What I know is that it is good for people to be creative
>>> whatever that form takes. He is putting is ideas out there which is more
>>> then most people will ever do. I applaud any effort by a person putting out
>>> their own ideas out there for everyone to see and I hope he continues to do
>>> it and he gets to where he's going, I hope someday he makes millions from
>>> it. I would applaud again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>>>
>>> > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting
>>>
>>> That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.
>>>  I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
>>>
>>> To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start
>>> from somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been
>>> using computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and
>>> go.  I for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users
>>> nowadays grew up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least
>>> as familiar with as the desktop.
>>>
>>> Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.
>>>  Where can it go from here?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>>>
>>> The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
>>> familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
>>> more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
>>> interesting after iteration(x) that is created.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>>>
>>> I know th

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Sotonin]

I've kept quiet on this thread to see how it plays out. I was waiting for
the OP to finally post something similar to "Why is everybody ignoring me
why isn't there any interest?". Now that it's happened, here's my 2 cents.

While I admit It looks neat from the YouTube video, It's just a gimmick.
There's been numerous web desktop projects throughout the years and they
all fail to garner enough real interest to go anywhere. Quite frankly there
are so many UI libraries out there for building nice UI that nothing in
your demo is really that revolutionary at all. Node has been around a while
for doing the file IO, UI libraries are plentiful. In fact the only thing
"special" about your demo is that it's a Mac OS clone... (Good luck open
sourcing something thats 100% Apple copyrighted material.). It also doesn't
help the OPs general attitude throughout all his posts is "Everything else
sucks, my stuff is magical". Very reminiscent of Steve Jobs. Adjusting your
tone a little and you might have gotten a little more fish biting.

That said, I have always been interested in the web desktop type projects,
just not interested enough to contribute. I like to see the results and
code. (This is a programming mailing list afterall, nobody cares much about
youtube videos, we want to see code)



On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Gerald Klein  wrote:

> Yes that IS much better, thank you for clearing that up and I am sure OP
> will respond to that in a more positive fashion.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
>>
>> The term constructive criticism which is always welcome innately suggests
>> that there is a better alternative idea or path that could be taken. Now
>> logic would also suggest that the person making this criticism have at
>> least an inkling of what that might be.
>>
>>
>> I've been really patient with your aggro commentary, but it's clear to me
>> that you're not reading my responses in their entirety.
>>
>> 1. I'm definitely interested in the OPs project.
>>
>> 2. YouTube videos do not satisfy my interests as a programmer and
>> software engineer.
>>
>> 3. I want to see some code, that will be exciting
>>
>>
>> Hopefully I've made myself perfectly clear this time.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Mark Hahn wrote:
>>
>> > I have never found negative comments to be helpful,
>>
>> I respectfully disagree.  Informed opinions should be welcome here.
>>
>>
>> +1 Informed and critical opinions are necessary for broader growth
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>>
>> I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a
>> practical way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit
>> harsh and I was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments to be
>> helpful, I also don't assume that I can see the direction that something
>> will take. What I know is that it is good for people to be creative
>> whatever that form takes. He is putting is ideas out there which is more
>> then most people will ever do. I applaud any effort by a person putting out
>> their own ideas out there for everyone to see and I hope he continues to do
>> it and he gets to where he's going, I hope someday he makes millions from
>> it. I would applaud again.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>>
>> > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting
>>
>> That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.
>>  I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
>>
>> To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start from
>> somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been using
>> computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and go.  I
>> for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users nowadays grew
>> up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least as familiar
>> with as the desktop.
>>
>> Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.
>>  Where can it go from here?
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>>
>> The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
>> familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
>> more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
>> interesting after iteration(x) that is created.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>>
>> I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.
>>  Why would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a
>> modern brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with responsive
>> web pages to be a better experience.
>>
>> Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality with
>> gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a 

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Gerald Klein]

Yes that IS much better, thank you for clearing that up and I am sure OP
will respond to that in a more positive fashion.

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:

>
> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
>
> The term constructive criticism which is always welcome innately suggests
> that there is a better alternative idea or path that could be taken. Now
> logic would also suggest that the person making this criticism have at
> least an inkling of what that might be.
>
>
> I've been really patient with your aggro commentary, but it's clear to me
> that you're not reading my responses in their entirety.
>
> 1. I'm definitely interested in the OPs project.
>
> 2. YouTube videos do not satisfy my interests as a programmer and software
> engineer.
>
> 3. I want to see some code, that will be exciting
>
>
> Hopefully I've made myself perfectly clear this time.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>
> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Mark Hahn wrote:
>
> > I have never found negative comments to be helpful,
>
> I respectfully disagree.  Informed opinions should be welcome here.
>
>
> +1 Informed and critical opinions are necessary for broader growth
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>
> I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a practical
> way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit harsh and I
> was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments to be helpful, I
> also don't assume that I can see the direction that something will take.
> What I know is that it is good for people to be creative whatever that form
> takes. He is putting is ideas out there which is more then most people will
> ever do. I applaud any effort by a person putting out their own ideas out
> there for everyone to see and I hope he continues to do it and he gets to
> where he's going, I hope someday he makes millions from it. I would applaud
> again.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>
> > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting
>
> That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.
>  I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
>
> To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start from
> somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been using
> computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and go.  I
> for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users nowadays grew
> up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least as familiar
> with as the desktop.
>
> Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.
>  Where can it go from here?
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>
> The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
> familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
> more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
> interesting after iteration(x) that is created.
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>
> I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.  Why
> would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a modern
> brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with responsive web
> pages to be a better experience.
>
> Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality with
> gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop metaphor
> with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons into desktop
> windows, they appear as web pages from web links.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
> >
> > My most recent work can be seen here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> >
> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
> Trashcan.
> >
> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I am
> really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
> beautiful started!
>
> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>
> Share some code ;)
>
> Rick
>
> >
> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
> >
> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
> will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as thei

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Rick Waldron]

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:

> The term constructive criticism which is always welcome innately suggests 
> that there is a better alternative idea or path that could be taken. Now 
> logic would also suggest that the person making this criticism have at least 
> an inkling of what that might be. 

I've been really patient with your aggro commentary, but it's clear to me that 
you're not reading my responses in their entirety.

1. I'm definitely interested in the OPs project. 

2. YouTube videos do not satisfy my interests as a programmer and software 
engineer. 

3. I want to see some code, that will be exciting 


Hopefully I've made myself perfectly clear this time.

Rick


> 
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Rick Waldron  (mailto:waldron.r...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Mark Hahn wrote:
> > 
> > > > I have never found negative comments to be helpful,
> > > 
> > > I respectfully disagree.  Informed opinions should be welcome here.
> > 
> > +1 Informed and critical opinions are necessary for broader growth
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Gerald Klein  > > (mailto:j...@zognet.com)> wrote:
> > > > I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a 
> > > > practical way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit 
> > > > harsh and I was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments 
> > > > to be helpful, I also don't assume that I can see the direction that 
> > > > something will take. What I know is that it is good for people to be 
> > > > creative whatever that form takes. He is putting is ideas out there 
> > > > which is more then most people will ever do. I applaud any effort by a 
> > > > person putting out their own ideas out there for everyone to see and I 
> > > > hope he continues to do it and he gets to where he's going, I hope 
> > > > someday he makes millions from it. I would applaud again. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  > > > (mailto:m...@hahnca.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting 
> > > > > 
> > > > > That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any 
> > > > > enthusiasm.  I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
> > > > > 
> > > > > To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start 
> > > > > from somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have 
> > > > > been using computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors 
> > > > > come and go.  I for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  
> > > > > Most users nowadays grew up with the web, so it is a metaphor that 
> > > > > they are at least as familiar with as the desktop. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.  
> > > > > Where can it go from here?
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  > > > > (mailto:j...@zognet.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a 
> > > > > > familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or 
> > > > > > feel more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come 
> > > > > > something interesting after iteration(x) that is created.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  > > > > > (mailto:m...@hahnca.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > > I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand 
> > > > > > > it.  Why would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 
> > > > > > > years ago on a modern brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents 
> > > > > > > on the web with responsive web pages to be a better experience.  
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality 
> > > > > > > with gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a 
> > > > > > > desktop metaphor with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring 
> > > > > > > up from icons into desktop windows, they appear as web pages from 
> > > > > > > web links.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron 
> > > > > > > mailto:waldron.r...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  > > > > > > > (mailto:dkan...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My most recent work can be seen here: 
> > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a 
> > > > > > > > > working Trashcan.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of 
> > > > > > > > > this & I am really eager to get together with programmers who 
> > > > > > > > > want to get something beautiful started!
> > > > > > > > I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to 
> > > > > > > > be

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Gerald Klein]

If that it was you feel about this thread you know the subject line, give
it a pass instead of wasting time talking about something that you have
stated does not interest you.

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:

>
> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
>
> "a thread of rants making deluded claims" Here we go negative again, "a
> thread of rants making deluded claims" you just love to hear yourself talk
> don't you. I didn't respond to your last post because you started to make
> reasonable representation of your case, let it go.
>
>
> Have you actually read all of the posts in this thread? I have. It reads
> like "no one does anything interesting, except for me. Why is everyone
> ignoring me?" That IS my reasonable case presentation.
>
> If you want, I'll spend some time gathering examples for you...
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>
> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
>
> Call it soap boxing what ever you like, but when you say "I think I speak
> for most when I say" I have a problem, because you don't. Further the line
> about show us some code was not what I was talking about, it was the lines
> prior to that. "you've given us nothing to be interested in, aside from a
> few YouTube videos and some hints about an API that, to be honest, looks
> nothing like a well designed JavaScript API" Ah yes a positive
> and necessary critique from someone with an obvious superior intelligence.
> Personally I don't care what your creating robots with, this has to do
> with respect. You know I have always been impressed with braggarts that use
> accomplishment to justify rude behavior.
>
> I didn't mention those projects to brag at all, I mentioned them because
> the OP has created a thread of rants making deluded claims and then
> complains that no one is interested.
>
> Well... I'm interested, but I want to see more and I don't mean more
> YouTube videos and rants, I want code.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>
>  On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
>
> @Rick please don't speak for most, speak for your self. If you have no
> interest then don't comment. Large ideas come from small ideas, I would
> hate to think that something I might say could have been short sighted may
> ruin the chances of something good happening coming out of someones effort.
> IMHO
>
>
> thanks --jerry
>
>
> Reel it in buddy, I was the first person to respond to the original post
> (shared some interesting, related research and information).
>
> Since then all I've read is long winded soapboxing, with claims that
> people don't take JavaScript seriously enough as a "high level" language
> and that no one is innovating quite like the author is... forgive me, but I
> expect substance to back claims like that. I've spent the last 7 months
> programming arduino robots with JavaScript and this past week Felix G
> demoed ARdrone control programs written in JS... None of that would matter
> if there were no code to show for it. So like I said, show me some code and
> I'll show you some interest.
>
>
> Rick
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
> >
> > My most recent work can be seen here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> >
> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
> Trashcan.
> >
> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I am
> really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
> beautiful started!
>
> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>
> Share some code ;)
>
> Rick
>
> >
> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
> >
> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
> will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am
> using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end
> user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
> possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
> OS X!
> >
> > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
> through this kind of interface...
> >
> > --
> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Rick Waldron]

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:

> "a thread of rants making deluded claims" Here we go negative again, "a 
> thread of rants making deluded claims" you just love to hear yourself talk 
> don't you. I didn't respond to your last post because you started to make 
> reasonable representation of your case, let it go.
> 


Have you actually read all of the posts in this thread? I have. It reads like 
"no one does anything interesting, except for me. Why is everyone ignoring me?" 
That IS my reasonable case presentation. 

If you want, I'll spend some time gathering examples for you...

> 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Rick Waldron  (mailto:waldron.r...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
> > 
> > > Call it soap boxing what ever you like, but when you say "I think I speak 
> > > for most when I say" I have a problem, because you don't. Further the 
> > > line about show us some code was not what I was talking about, it was the 
> > > lines prior to that. "you've given us nothing to be interested in, aside 
> > > from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API that, to be honest, 
> > > looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API" Ah yes a positive and 
> > > necessary critique from someone with an obvious superior intelligence. 
> > > Personally I don't care what your creating robots with, this has to do 
> > > with respect. You know I have always been impressed with braggarts that 
> > > use accomplishment to justify rude behavior.  
> > I didn't mention those projects to brag at all, I mentioned them because 
> > the OP has created a thread of rants making deluded claims and then 
> > complains that no one is interested. 
> > 
> > Well... I'm interested, but I want to see more and I don't mean more 
> > YouTube videos and rants, I want code.
> > 
> > Rick
> >  
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Rick Waldron  > > (mailto:waldron.r...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
> > > > > > @Rick please don't speak for most, speak for your self. If you have 
> > > > > > no interest then don't comment. Large ideas come from small ideas, 
> > > > > > I would hate to think that something I might say could have been 
> > > > > > short sighted may ruin the chances of something good happening 
> > > > > > coming out of someones effort. IMHO
> > > > > 
> > > > > thanks --jerry 
> > > > 
> > > > Reel it in buddy, I was the first person to respond to the original 
> > > > post (shared some interesting, related research and information).  
> > > > 
> > > > Since then all I've read is long winded soapboxing, with claims that 
> > > > people don't take JavaScript seriously enough as a "high level" 
> > > > language and that no one is innovating quite like the author is... 
> > > > forgive me, but I expect substance to back claims like that. I've spent 
> > > > the last 7 months programming arduino robots with JavaScript and this 
> > > > past week Felix G demoed ARdrone control programs written in JS... None 
> > > > of that would matter if there were no code to show for it. So like I 
> > > > said, show me some code and I'll show you some interest.  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Rick 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Rick Waldron  > > > > (mailto:waldron.r...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  > > > > > (mailto:dkan...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My most recent work can be seen here: 
> > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a 
> > > > > > > working Trashcan.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this 
> > > > > > > & I am really eager to get together with programmers who want to 
> > > > > > > get something beautiful started!
> > > > > > I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be 
> > > > > > interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about 
> > > > > > an API that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed 
> > > > > > JavaScript API. 
> > > > > > Share some code ;) 
> > > > > > Rick 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end 
> > > > > > > experience crucially determines how much "excitement" the 
> > > > > > > back-end administrators will have.  At the moment, the web is 
> > > > > > > filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive front-ends.  So anyone 
> > > > > > > who wants to work with me will really have a leg up in terms of 
> > > > > > > offering the kind of user experience that will keep the 
> > > > > > > back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully 
> > > > > > > employed" ;)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of 
> > > > > > > this will not want

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Gerald Klein]

Once again Mark my responses have not been about you, you
have acquitted your self as quite reasonable.

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:

> >  there is a way of presenting them
>
> Yes.  Civility is to be expected.
>
> >  if you have a negative I would assume you must have a positive to
> supplant it.
>
> Huh?  I have what I have.  This isn't a debate, it's just me giving my
> opinion.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>
>> I agree but there is a way of presenting them, further if you have a
>> negative I would assume you must have a positive to supplant it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>>
>>> > I have never found negative comments to be helpful,
>>>
>>> I respectfully disagree.  Informed opinions should be welcome here.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>>>
 I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a
 practical way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit
 harsh and I was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments to be
 helpful, I also don't assume that I can see the direction that something
 will take. What I know is that it is good for people to be creative
 whatever that form takes. He is putting is ideas out there which is more
 then most people will ever do. I applaud any effort by a person putting out
 their own ideas out there for everyone to see and I hope he continues to do
 it and he gets to where he's going, I hope someday he makes millions from
 it. I would applaud again.



 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:

> > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting
>
> That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any
> enthusiasm.  I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
>
> To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start
> from somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been
> using computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and
> go.  I for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users
> nowadays grew up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least
> as familiar with as the desktop.
>
> Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.
>  Where can it go from here?
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>
>> The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
>> familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
>> more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
>> interesting after iteration(x) that is created.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>>
>>> I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand
>>> it.  Why would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago 
>>> on a
>>> modern brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with 
>>> responsive
>>> web pages to be a better experience.
>>>
>>> Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality
>>> with gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop
>>> metaphor with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons 
>>> into
>>> desktop windows, they appear as web pages from web links.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron <
>>> waldron.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>

 On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
 >
 > My most recent work can be seen here:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
 >
 > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a
 working Trashcan.
 >
 > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this
 & I am really eager to get together with programmers who want to get
 something beautiful started!

 I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
 interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an 
 API
 that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.

 Share some code ;)

 Rick

 >
 > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end
 experience crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end
 administrators will have.  At the moment, the web is filled with 
 absolutely
 boring/unresponsive front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me 
 will
 really have a leg up in terms of offering the kind of user experience 
 that
 will keep the back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully
 employed" ;)
 >
 > By the 

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Mark Hahn]

>  there is a way of presenting them

Yes.  Civility is to be expected.

>  if you have a negative I would assume you must have a positive to
supplant it.

Huh?  I have what I have.  This isn't a debate, it's just me giving my
opinion.


On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:

> I agree but there is a way of presenting them, further if you have a
> negative I would assume you must have a positive to supplant it.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>
>> > I have never found negative comments to be helpful,
>>
>> I respectfully disagree.  Informed opinions should be welcome here.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>>
>>> I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a
>>> practical way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit
>>> harsh and I was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments to be
>>> helpful, I also don't assume that I can see the direction that something
>>> will take. What I know is that it is good for people to be creative
>>> whatever that form takes. He is putting is ideas out there which is more
>>> then most people will ever do. I applaud any effort by a person putting out
>>> their own ideas out there for everyone to see and I hope he continues to do
>>> it and he gets to where he's going, I hope someday he makes millions from
>>> it. I would applaud again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>>>
 > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting

 That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any
 enthusiasm.  I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.

 To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start
 from somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been
 using computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and
 go.  I for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users
 nowadays grew up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least
 as familiar with as the desktop.

 Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.
  Where can it go from here?

 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:

> The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
> familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
> more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
> interesting after iteration(x) that is created.
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>
>> I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.
>>  Why would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a
>> modern brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with 
>> responsive
>> web pages to be a better experience.
>>
>> Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality
>> with gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop
>> metaphor with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons 
>> into
>> desktop windows, they appear as web pages from web links.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron > > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > My most recent work can be seen here:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
>>> >
>>> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
>>> Trashcan.
>>> >
>>> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this
>>> & I am really eager to get together with programmers who want to get
>>> something beautiful started!
>>>
>>> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
>>> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an 
>>> API
>>> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>>>
>>> Share some code ;)
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> >
>>> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
>>> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators 
>>> will
>>> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely 
>>> boring/unresponsive
>>> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg 
>>> up
>>> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
>>> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
>>> >
>>> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of
>>> this will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front 
>>> end.  I
>>> am using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make 
>>> the
>>> end user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
>>>

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Gerald Klein]

The term constructive criticism which is always welcome innately suggests
that there is a better alternative idea or path that could be taken. Now
logic would also suggest that the person making this criticism have at
least an inkling of what that might be.

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:

>
> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Mark Hahn wrote:
>
> > I have never found negative comments to be helpful,
>
> I respectfully disagree.  Informed opinions should be welcome here.
>
>
> +1 Informed and critical opinions are necessary for broader growth
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>
> I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a practical
> way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit harsh and I
> was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments to be helpful, I
> also don't assume that I can see the direction that something will take.
> What I know is that it is good for people to be creative whatever that form
> takes. He is putting is ideas out there which is more then most people will
> ever do. I applaud any effort by a person putting out their own ideas out
> there for everyone to see and I hope he continues to do it and he gets to
> where he's going, I hope someday he makes millions from it. I would applaud
> again.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>
> > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting
>
> That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.
>  I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
>
> To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start from
> somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been using
> computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and go.  I
> for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users nowadays grew
> up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least as familiar
> with as the desktop.
>
> Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.
>  Where can it go from here?
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>
> The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
> familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
> more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
> interesting after iteration(x) that is created.
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>
> I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.  Why
> would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a modern
> brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with responsive web
> pages to be a better experience.
>
> Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality with
> gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop metaphor
> with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons into desktop
> windows, they appear as web pages from web links.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
> >
> > My most recent work can be seen here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> >
> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
> Trashcan.
> >
> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I am
> really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
> beautiful started!
>
> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>
> Share some code ;)
>
> Rick
>
> >
> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
> >
> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
> will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am
> using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end
> user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
> possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
> OS X!
> >
> > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
> through this kind of interface...
> >
> > --
> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "nodejs" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Gerald Klein]

"a thread of rants making deluded claims" Here we go negative again, "a
thread of rants making deluded claims" you just love to hear yourself talk
don't you. I didn't respond to your last post because you started to make
reasonable representation of your case, let it go.

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:

>
> On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
>
> Call it soap boxing what ever you like, but when you say "I think I speak
> for most when I say" I have a problem, because you don't. Further the line
> about show us some code was not what I was talking about, it was the lines
> prior to that. "you've given us nothing to be interested in, aside from a
> few YouTube videos and some hints about an API that, to be honest, looks
> nothing like a well designed JavaScript API" Ah yes a positive
> and necessary critique from someone with an obvious superior intelligence.
> Personally I don't care what your creating robots with, this has to do
> with respect. You know I have always been impressed with braggarts that use
> accomplishment to justify rude behavior.
>
> I didn't mention those projects to brag at all, I mentioned them because
> the OP has created a thread of rants making deluded claims and then
> complains that no one is interested.
>
> Well... I'm interested, but I want to see more and I don't mean more
> YouTube videos and rants, I want code.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>
>  On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
>
> @Rick please don't speak for most, speak for your self. If you have no
> interest then don't comment. Large ideas come from small ideas, I would
> hate to think that something I might say could have been short sighted may
> ruin the chances of something good happening coming out of someones effort.
> IMHO
>
>
> thanks --jerry
>
>
> Reel it in buddy, I was the first person to respond to the original post
> (shared some interesting, related research and information).
>
> Since then all I've read is long winded soapboxing, with claims that
> people don't take JavaScript seriously enough as a "high level" language
> and that no one is innovating quite like the author is... forgive me, but I
> expect substance to back claims like that. I've spent the last 7 months
> programming arduino robots with JavaScript and this past week Felix G
> demoed ARdrone control programs written in JS... None of that would matter
> if there were no code to show for it. So like I said, show me some code and
> I'll show you some interest.
>
>
> Rick
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
> >
> > My most recent work can be seen here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> >
> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
> Trashcan.
> >
> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I am
> really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
> beautiful started!
>
> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>
> Share some code ;)
>
> Rick
>
> >
> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
> >
> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
> will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am
> using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end
> user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
> possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
> OS X!
> >
> > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
> through this kind of interface...
> >
> > --
> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "nodejs" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to t

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Rick Waldron]

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Mark Hahn wrote:

> > I have never found negative comments to be helpful,
> 
> I respectfully disagree.  Informed opinions should be welcome here.

+1 Informed and critical opinions are necessary for broader growth
> 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Gerald Klein  (mailto:j...@zognet.com)> wrote:
> > I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a practical 
> > way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit harsh and I 
> > was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments to be helpful, I 
> > also don't assume that I can see the direction that something will take. 
> > What I know is that it is good for people to be creative whatever that form 
> > takes. He is putting is ideas out there which is more then most people will 
> > ever do. I applaud any effort by a person putting out their own ideas out 
> > there for everyone to see and I hope he continues to do it and he gets to 
> > where he's going, I hope someday he makes millions from it. I would applaud 
> > again. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  > (mailto:m...@hahnca.com)> wrote:
> > > > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting 
> > > 
> > > That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.  
> > > I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
> > > 
> > > To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start from 
> > > somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been using 
> > > computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and go.  I 
> > > for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users nowadays 
> > > grew up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least as 
> > > familiar with as the desktop. 
> > > 
> > > Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.  
> > > Where can it go from here?
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  > > (mailto:j...@zognet.com)> wrote:
> > > > The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a familiar 
> > > > metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel more at 
> > > > home. This ia also to say that from this may come something interesting 
> > > > after iteration(x) that is created.
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  > > > (mailto:m...@hahnca.com)> wrote:
> > > > > I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it. 
> > > > >  Why would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on 
> > > > > a modern brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with 
> > > > > responsive web pages to be a better experience.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality 
> > > > > with gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop 
> > > > > metaphor with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from 
> > > > > icons into desktop windows, they appear as web pages from web links.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron  > > > > (mailto:waldron.r...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  > > > > > (mailto:dkan...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My most recent work can be seen here: 
> > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a 
> > > > > > > working Trashcan.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this 
> > > > > > > & I am really eager to get together with programmers who want to 
> > > > > > > get something beautiful started!
> > > > > > I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be 
> > > > > > interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about 
> > > > > > an API that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed 
> > > > > > JavaScript API. 
> > > > > > Share some code ;) 
> > > > > > Rick 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end 
> > > > > > > experience crucially determines how much "excitement" the 
> > > > > > > back-end administrators will have.  At the moment, the web is 
> > > > > > > filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive front-ends.  So anyone 
> > > > > > > who wants to work with me will really have a leg up in terms of 
> > > > > > > offering the kind of user experience that will keep the 
> > > > > > > back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully 
> > > > > > > employed" ;)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of 
> > > > > > > this will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their 
> > > > > > > front end.  I am using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how 
> > > > > > > awesome I can make the end user experience.  Once I can get this 
> > > > > > > prototype working

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Rick Waldron]

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:

> Call it soap boxing what ever you like, but when you say "I think I speak for 
> most when I say" I have a problem, because you don't. Further the line about 
> show us some code was not what I was talking about, it was the lines prior to 
> that. "you've given us nothing to be interested in, aside from a few YouTube 
> videos and some hints about an API that, to be honest, looks nothing like a 
> well designed JavaScript API" Ah yes a positive and necessary critique from 
> someone with an obvious superior intelligence. Personally I don't care what 
> your creating robots with, this has to do with respect. You know I have 
> always been impressed with braggarts that use accomplishment to justify rude 
> behavior.  
I didn't mention those projects to brag at all, I mentioned them because the OP 
has created a thread of rants making deluded claims and then complains that no 
one is interested. 

Well... I'm interested, but I want to see more and I don't mean more YouTube 
videos and rants, I want code.

Rick
 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Rick Waldron  (mailto:waldron.r...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > 
> > On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
> > > > @Rick please don't speak for most, speak for your self. If you have no 
> > > > interest then don't comment. Large ideas come from small ideas, I would 
> > > > hate to think that something I might say could have been short sighted 
> > > > may ruin the chances of something good happening coming out of someones 
> > > > effort. IMHO
> > > 
> > > thanks --jerry 
> > 
> > Reel it in buddy, I was the first person to respond to the original post 
> > (shared some interesting, related research and information).  
> > 
> > Since then all I've read is long winded soapboxing, with claims that people 
> > don't take JavaScript seriously enough as a "high level" language and that 
> > no one is innovating quite like the author is... forgive me, but I expect 
> > substance to back claims like that. I've spent the last 7 months 
> > programming arduino robots with JavaScript and this past week Felix G 
> > demoed ARdrone control programs written in JS... None of that would matter 
> > if there were no code to show for it. So like I said, show me some code and 
> > I'll show you some interest.  
> > 
> > 
> > Rick 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Rick Waldron  > > (mailto:waldron.r...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  > > > (mailto:dkan...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My most recent work can be seen here: 
> > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> > > > >
> > > > > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working 
> > > > > Trashcan.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I 
> > > > > am really eager to get together with programmers who want to get 
> > > > > something beautiful started!
> > > > I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be 
> > > > interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an 
> > > > API that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript 
> > > > API. 
> > > > Share some code ;) 
> > > > Rick 
> > > > >
> > > > > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience 
> > > > > crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end 
> > > > > administrators will have.  At the moment, the web is filled with 
> > > > > absolutely boring/unresponsive front-ends.  So anyone who wants to 
> > > > > work with me will really have a leg up in terms of offering the kind 
> > > > > of user experience that will keep the back-enders on their toes ("on 
> > > > > their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this 
> > > > > will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  
> > > > > I am using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can 
> > > > > make the end user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working 
> > > > > as well as possible, then I can start to think about how to make it 
> > > > > even better than OS X!
> > > > >
> > > > > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up 
> > > > > through this kind of interface...
> > > > >
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> > > > > Posting guidelines: 
> > > > > https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > > > Groups "nodejs" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com 
> > > > > (mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com)
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> > > > > (mailto:nodejs%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com)
> > > > > For more options, visit this gr

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Gerald Klein]

I agree but there is a way of presenting them, further if you have a
negative I would assume you must have a positive to supplant it.



On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:

> > I have never found negative comments to be helpful,
>
> I respectfully disagree.  Informed opinions should be welcome here.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>
>> I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a
>> practical way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit
>> harsh and I was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments to be
>> helpful, I also don't assume that I can see the direction that something
>> will take. What I know is that it is good for people to be creative
>> whatever that form takes. He is putting is ideas out there which is more
>> then most people will ever do. I applaud any effort by a person putting out
>> their own ideas out there for everyone to see and I hope he continues to do
>> it and he gets to where he's going, I hope someday he makes millions from
>> it. I would applaud again.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>>
>>> > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting
>>>
>>> That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.
>>>  I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
>>>
>>> To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start
>>> from somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been
>>> using computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and
>>> go.  I for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users
>>> nowadays grew up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least
>>> as familiar with as the desktop.
>>>
>>> Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.
>>>  Where can it go from here?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>>>
 The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
 familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
 more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
 interesting after iteration(x) that is created.

 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:

> I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.
>  Why would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a
> modern brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with 
> responsive
> web pages to be a better experience.
>
> Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality with
> gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop metaphor
> with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons into desktop
> windows, they appear as web pages from web links.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
>> >
>> > My most recent work can be seen here:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
>> >
>> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
>> Trashcan.
>> >
>> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this &
>> I am really eager to get together with programmers who want to get
>> something beautiful started!
>>
>> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
>> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an 
>> API
>> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>>
>> Share some code ;)
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> >
>> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
>> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators 
>> will
>> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely 
>> boring/unresponsive
>> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg 
>> up
>> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
>> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
>> >
>> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of
>> this will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end. 
>>  I
>> am using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the
>> end user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
>> possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
>> OS X!
>> >
>> > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
>> through this kind of interface...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>> > Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>> > You received this message

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Mark Hahn]

> I have never found negative comments to be helpful,

I respectfully disagree.  Informed opinions should be welcome here.


On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:

> I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a practical
> way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit harsh and I
> was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments to be helpful, I
> also don't assume that I can see the direction that something will take.
> What I know is that it is good for people to be creative whatever that form
> takes. He is putting is ideas out there which is more then most people will
> ever do. I applaud any effort by a person putting out their own ideas out
> there for everyone to see and I hope he continues to do it and he gets to
> where he's going, I hope someday he makes millions from it. I would applaud
> again.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>
>> > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting
>>
>> That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.
>>  I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
>>
>> To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start from
>> somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been using
>> computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and go.  I
>> for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users nowadays grew
>> up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least as familiar
>> with as the desktop.
>>
>> Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.
>>  Where can it go from here?
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>>
>>> The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
>>> familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
>>> more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
>>> interesting after iteration(x) that is created.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>>>
 I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.
  Why would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a
 modern brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with responsive
 web pages to be a better experience.

 Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality with
 gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop metaphor
 with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons into desktop
 windows, they appear as web pages from web links.


 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron 
 wrote:

>
> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
> >
> > My most recent work can be seen here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> >
> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
> Trashcan.
> >
> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this &
> I am really eager to get together with programmers who want to get
> something beautiful started!
>
> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>
> Share some code ;)
>
> Rick
>
> >
> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators 
> will
> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely 
> boring/unresponsive
> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
> >
> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
> will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am
> using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end
> user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
> possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
> OS X!
> >
> > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
> through this kind of interface...
> >
> > --
> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "nodejs" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/nodej

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Rick Waldron]

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:

> I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a practical 
> way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit harsh and I was 
> already annoyed. 
> 


I wasn't being negative, I was identifying exactly what it would take to 
interest me. As an engineer, I want to know how things work... I guess I 
wrongly assumed that this list was for engineers that liked to make things or 
learn how things work. That's why I said "speaking for most", thanks for 
correcting me there, I won't make the mistake again.


Rick
 
> I have never found negative comments to be helpful, I also don't assume that 
> I can see the direction that something will take. What I know is that it is 
> good for people to be creative whatever that form takes. He is putting is 
> ideas out there which is more then most people will ever do. I applaud any 
> effort by a person putting out their own ideas out there for everyone to see 
> and I hope he continues to do it and he gets to where he's going, I hope 
> someday he makes millions from it. I would applaud again. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  (mailto:m...@hahnca.com)> wrote:
> > > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting 
> > 
> > That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.  
> > I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
> > 
> > To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start from 
> > somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been using 
> > computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and go.  I 
> > for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users nowadays grew 
> > up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least as familiar 
> > with as the desktop. 
> > 
> > Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.  Where 
> > can it go from here?
> > 
> > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  > (mailto:j...@zognet.com)> wrote:
> > > The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a familiar 
> > > metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel more at 
> > > home. This ia also to say that from this may come something interesting 
> > > after iteration(x) that is created.
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  > > (mailto:m...@hahnca.com)> wrote:
> > > > I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.  
> > > > Why would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a 
> > > > modern brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with 
> > > > responsive web pages to be a better experience.  
> > > > 
> > > > Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality with 
> > > > gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop 
> > > > metaphor with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons 
> > > > into desktop windows, they appear as web pages from web links.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron  > > > (mailto:waldron.r...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  > > > > (mailto:dkan...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My most recent work can be seen here: 
> > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working 
> > > > > > Trashcan.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & 
> > > > > > I am really eager to get together with programmers who want to get 
> > > > > > something beautiful started!
> > > > > I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be 
> > > > > interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about 
> > > > > an API that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed 
> > > > > JavaScript API. 
> > > > > Share some code ;) 
> > > > > Rick 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience 
> > > > > > crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end 
> > > > > > administrators will have.  At the moment, the web is filled with 
> > > > > > absolutely boring/unresponsive front-ends.  So anyone who wants to 
> > > > > > work with me will really have a leg up in terms of offering the 
> > > > > > kind of user experience that will keep the back-enders on their 
> > > > > > toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of 
> > > > > > this will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front 
> > > > > > end.  I am using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome 
> > > > > > I can make the end user experience.  Once I can get this prototype 
> > > > > > working as well as possible, then I can start to think about how to 
> > > > > > make it even better than O

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Gerald Klein]

Call it soap boxing what ever you like, but when you say "I think I speak
for most when I say" I have a problem, because you don't. Further the line
about show us some code was not what I was talking about, it was the lines
prior to that. "you've given us nothing to be interested in, aside from a
few YouTube videos and some hints about an API that, to be honest, looks
nothing like a well designed JavaScript API" Ah yes a positive
and necessary critique from someone with an obvious superior intelligence.
Personally I don't care what your creating robots with, this has to do
with respect. You know I have always been impressed with braggarts that use
accomplishment to justify rude behavior.

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Rick Waldron wrote:

>
>  On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Gerald Klein wrote:
>
> @Rick please don't speak for most, speak for your self. If you have no
> interest then don't comment. Large ideas come from small ideas, I would
> hate to think that something I might say could have been short sighted may
> ruin the chances of something good happening coming out of someones effort.
> IMHO
>
>
> thanks --jerry
>
>
> Reel it in buddy, I was the first person to respond to the original post
> (shared some interesting, related research and information).
>
> Since then all I've read is long winded soapboxing, with claims that
> people don't take JavaScript seriously enough as a "high level" language
> and that no one is innovating quite like the author is... forgive me, but I
> expect substance to back claims like that. I've spent the last 7 months
> programming arduino robots with JavaScript and this past week Felix G
> demoed ARdrone control programs written in JS... None of that would matter
> if there were no code to show for it. So like I said, show me some code and
> I'll show you some interest.
>
>
> Rick
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
> >
> > My most recent work can be seen here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> >
> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
> Trashcan.
> >
> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I am
> really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
> beautiful started!
>
> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>
> Share some code ;)
>
> Rick
>
> >
> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
> >
> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
> will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am
> using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end
> user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
> possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
> OS X!
> >
> > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
> through this kind of interface...
> >
> > --
> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "nodejs" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Gerald Klein DBA
>
> contac...@geraldklein.com
>
> www.geraldklein.com 
>
> geraldklein.wordpress.com
>
> j...@zognet.com
>
> 708-599-0352
>
>
> Arch Awesome, Ranger & Vim the coding triple threat.
>
> Linux registered user #548580
>
>
>
>  --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Gro

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Rick Waldron]

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Gerald Klein wrote: 
> > @Rick please don't speak for most, speak for your self. If you have no 
> > interest then don't comment. Large ideas come from small ideas, I would 
> > hate to think that something I might say could have been short sighted may 
> > ruin the chances of something good happening coming out of someones effort. 
> > IMHO
> 
> thanks --jerry 

Reel it in buddy, I was the first person to respond to the original post 
(shared some interesting, related research and information). 

Since then all I've read is long winded soapboxing, with claims that people 
don't take JavaScript seriously enough as a "high level" language and that no 
one is innovating quite like the author is... forgive me, but I expect 
substance to back claims like that. I've spent the last 7 months programming 
arduino robots with JavaScript and this past week Felix G demoed ARdrone 
control programs written in JS... None of that would matter if there were no 
code to show for it. So like I said, show me some code and I'll show you some 
interest. 


Rick 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Rick Waldron  (mailto:waldron.r...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > 
> > On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  > (mailto:dkan...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > >
> > > My most recent work can be seen here: 
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> > >
> > > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working 
> > > Trashcan.
> > >
> > > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I am 
> > > really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something 
> > > beautiful started!
> > I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be 
> > interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API 
> > that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API. 
> > Share some code ;) 
> > Rick 
> > >
> > > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience 
> > > crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators 
> > > will have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely 
> > > boring/unresponsive front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will 
> > > really have a leg up in terms of offering the kind of user experience 
> > > that will keep the back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == 
> > > "gamefully employed" ;)
> > >
> > > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this will 
> > > not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am 
> > > using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the 
> > > end user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as 
> > > possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than 
> > > OS X!
> > >
> > > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up 
> > > through this kind of interface...
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> > > Posting guidelines: 
> > > https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups "nodejs" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com 
> > > (mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com)
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> > > (mailto:nodejs%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com)
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
> > -- 
> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> > Posting guidelines: 
> > https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "nodejs" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com 
> > (mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com)
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> > (mailto:nodejs%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com)
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gerald Klein DBA
> 
> 
> contac...@geraldklein.com (mailto:contac...@geraldklein.com)
> 
> 
> www.geraldklein.com (http://geraldklein.com/)
> 
> 
> geraldklein.wordpress.com (http://geraldklein.wordpress.com)
> 
> 
> j...@zognet.com (mailto:j...@zognet.com)
> 
> 
> 708-599-0352
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arch Awesome, Ranger & Vim the coding triple threat.
> 
> 
> Linux registered user #548580 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines: 
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visi

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Gerald Klein]

I myself only from the seventies and more into the eighties in a practical
way. Accept my apologies but the comment before you was a bit harsh and I
was already annoyed. I have never found negative comments to be helpful, I
also don't assume that I can see the direction that something will take.
What I know is that it is good for people to be creative whatever that form
takes. He is putting is ideas out there which is more then most people will
ever do. I applaud any effort by a person putting out their own ideas out
there for everyone to see and I hope he continues to do it and he gets to
where he's going, I hope someday he makes millions from it. I would applaud
again.



On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mark Hahn  wrote:

> > This is also to say that from this may come something interesting
>
> That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.
>  I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.
>
> To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start from
> somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been using
> computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and go.  I
> for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users nowadays grew
> up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least as familiar
> with as the desktop.
>
> Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.
>  Where can it go from here?
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:
>
>> The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
>> familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
>> more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
>> interesting after iteration(x) that is created.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>>
>>> I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.
>>>  Why would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a
>>> modern brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with responsive
>>> web pages to be a better experience.
>>>
>>> Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality with
>>> gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop metaphor
>>> with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons into desktop
>>> windows, they appear as web pages from web links.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>>>

 On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
 >
 > My most recent work can be seen here:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
 >
 > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
 Trashcan.
 >
 > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I
 am really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
 beautiful started!

 I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
 interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
 that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.

 Share some code ;)

 Rick

 >
 > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
 crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
 have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
 front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
 in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
 back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
 >
 > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
 will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am
 using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end
 user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
 possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
 OS X!
 >
 > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
 through this kind of interface...
 >
 > --
 > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
 > Posting guidelines:
 https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 > Groups "nodejs" group.
 > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
 > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
 > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
 > For more options, visit this group at
 > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

 --
 Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
 Posting guidelines:
 https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups "nodejs" group.
 To post to this group, send email to nodejs@

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Mark Hahn]

> This is also to say that from this may come something interesting

That would be great and I certainly don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.
 I'm just giving my opinion as a potential user.

To journey to a great new place, it would seem to be easier to start from
somewhere modern instead of something old and moldy.  I have been using
computers since the mid '60s and witnessed many metaphors come and go.  I
for one would be happy to get rid of the desktop.  Most users nowadays grew
up with the web, so it is a metaphor that they are at least as familiar
with as the desktop.

Maybe a glimpse into the future of the desktop could prove me wrong.  Where
can it go from here?

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Gerald Klein  wrote:

> The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
> familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
> more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
> interesting after iteration(x) that is created.
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:
>
>> I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.
>>  Why would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a
>> modern brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with responsive
>> web pages to be a better experience.
>>
>> Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality with
>> gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop metaphor
>> with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons into desktop
>> windows, they appear as web pages from web links.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > My most recent work can be seen here:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
>>> >
>>> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
>>> Trashcan.
>>> >
>>> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I
>>> am really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
>>> beautiful started!
>>>
>>> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
>>> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
>>> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>>>
>>> Share some code ;)
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> >
>>> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
>>> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
>>> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
>>> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
>>> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
>>> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
>>> >
>>> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
>>> will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am
>>> using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end
>>> user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
>>> possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
>>> OS X!
>>> >
>>> > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
>>> through this kind of interface...
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>>> > Posting guidelines:
>>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> > Groups "nodejs" group.
>>> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>> > For more options, visit this group at
>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>>>
>>> --
>>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>>> Posting guidelines:
>>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "nodejs" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>>>
>>
>>  --
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>> Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "nodejs" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>  Gerald Klein DBA
>
> contac...@geraldklein.com
>
> www.geraldklein.com 
>
> geraldklein.wordpress.co

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Gerald Klein]

The point I think he is making is that some derivative of a
familiar metaphor will help people grab on to the functionality or feel
more at home. This ia also to say that from this may come something
interesting after iteration(x) that is created.

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Mark Hahn  wrote:

> I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.  Why
> would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a modern
> brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with responsive web
> pages to be a better experience.
>
> Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality with
> gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop metaphor
> with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons into desktop
> windows, they appear as web pages from web links.
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
>> >
>> > My most recent work can be seen here:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
>> >
>> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
>> Trashcan.
>> >
>> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I
>> am really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
>> beautiful started!
>>
>> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
>> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
>> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>>
>> Share some code ;)
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> >
>> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
>> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
>> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
>> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
>> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
>> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
>> >
>> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
>> will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am
>> using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end
>> user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
>> possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
>> OS X!
>> >
>> > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
>> through this kind of interface...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>> > Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "nodejs" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>>
>> --
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>> Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "nodejs" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>>
>
>  --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>



-- 

Gerald Klein DBA

contac...@geraldklein.com

www.geraldklein.com 

geraldklein.wordpress.com

j...@zognet.com

708-599-0352


Arch Awesome, Ranger & Vim the coding triple threat.

Linux registered user #548580

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Gerald Klein]

>
> @Rick please don't speak for most, speak for your self. If you have no
> interest then don't comment. Large ideas come from small ideas, I would
> hate to think that something I might say could have been short sighted may
> ruin the chances of something good happening coming out of someones effort.
> IMHO


thanks --jerry

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Rick Waldron wrote:

>
> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
> >
> > My most recent work can be seen here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> >
> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
> Trashcan.
> >
> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I am
> really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
> beautiful started!
>
> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>
> Share some code ;)
>
> Rick
>
> >
> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
> >
> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
> will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am
> using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end
> user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
> possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
> OS X!
> >
> > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
> through this kind of interface...
> >
> > --
> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "nodejs" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>



-- 

Gerald Klein DBA

contac...@geraldklein.com

www.geraldklein.com 

geraldklein.wordpress.com

j...@zognet.com

708-599-0352


Arch Awesome, Ranger & Vim the coding triple threat.

Linux registered user #548580

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Mark Hahn]

I know that this is a popular thing to do, but I don't understand it.  Why
would you want to put a metaphor that dates from 30 years ago on a modern
brower?  I find the hyperlinked documents on the web with responsive web
pages to be a better experience.

Google is working hard to replace the old Microsoft functionality with
gmail and google docs, yet you don't find Google using a desktop metaphor
with folders and trash cans.  Apps don't spring up from icons into desktop
windows, they appear as web pages from web links.

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Rick Waldron wrote:

>
> On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
> >
> > My most recent work can be seen here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
> >
> > I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
> Trashcan.
> >
> > I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I am
> really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
> beautiful started!
>
> I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
> interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
> that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.
>
> Share some code ;)
>
> Rick
>
> >
> > My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
> crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
> have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
> front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
> in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
> back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
> >
> > By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this
> will not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am
> using OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end
> user experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as
> possible, then I can start to think about how to make it even better than
> OS X!
> >
> > I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
> through this kind of interface...
> >
> > --
> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "nodejs" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

Re: [nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Rick Waldron]

On Sep 30, 2012 10:35 AM, "Dennis Kane"  wrote:
>
> My most recent work can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0
>
> I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working
Trashcan.
>
> I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I am
really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something
beautiful started!

I think I speak for most when I say: you've given us nothing to be
interested in, aside from a few YouTube videos and some hints about an API
that, to be honest, looks nothing like a well designed JavaScript API.

Share some code ;)

Rick

>
> My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience
crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will
have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive
front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up
in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the
back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)
>
> By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this will
not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am using
OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end user
experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as possible,
then I can start to think about how to make it even better than OS X!
>
> I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up
through this kind of interface...
>
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

[nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Dennis Kane]

My most recent work can be seen here: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NTjmy7PbD0

I have added functionality to the bottom dock, including a working Trashcan.

I have still received precisely zero real interest in any of this & I am 
really eager to get together with programmers who want to get something 
beautiful started!

My theory is basically that the nature of the front-end experience 
crucially determines how much "excitement" the back-end administrators will 
have.  At the moment, the web is filled with absolutely boring/unresponsive 
front-ends.  So anyone who wants to work with me will really have a leg up 
in terms of offering the kind of user experience that will keep the 
back-enders on their toes ("on their toes" == "gamefully employed" ;)

By the way, I am well aware that any business that comes out of this will 
not want to offer an exact replica of OS X as their front end.  I am using 
OS X as the ultimate challenge to see how awesome I can make the end user 
experience.  Once I can get this prototype working as well as possible, 
then I can start to think about how to make it even better than OS X!

I am all ears in terms of what kinds of services can be offered up through 
this kind of interface...

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

[nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Dennis Kane]

Cool!  When I scrolled down to the section called "The Central Role of 
Language", I realized that the "anti-mac" concept was something I could 
work with.  I am a believer in the concept of leveraging Javascript in 
order to devise a kind of higher level computing language that can deal 
very well in human concepts.  Think of it as a kind of highly structured 
natural language, and we can start really getting on our way.  The problem 
is that programmers and logically-minded people in general need to start 
getting creative with how they think about computers.

When I scroll through this list on any given day, I am often quite 
disheartened by the utter lack of trying to think of Javascript at a higher 
level.  There is often so much discussion concerning issues that are well 
on their way to becoming irrelevant anymore.  Whether to fork off node or 
whether to make it threaded, for example.  But node is really good enough 
for anything that can be reasonably thrown at it.  I remember hearing Ryan 
talking about the fact that node can always be made to be faster, but that 
the real increase in speed occurred between the leap from the pre-node 
world to the post-node world.

I think it's high time for many programmers to just take a little breather 
to think about where we can go next.  I recommend really meditating on some 
of those Crockford youtube videos, and start thinking about what it really 
means that we have a blazing fast DOM-aware prototypal scripting language 
that uses first order functions.  It's all pretty mind blowing when you 
really think about it.

Developers are just so damn scared to actually *use* the language rather 
than just using some dumb library that forces you to think in a certain way 
about in-browser programming.

My API is currently a little messy, but from the beginning, I wanted to 
focus on keeping it exceedingly simple and intuitive.  There are function 
calls like make_desktop(), make_window(), and make_icon().  Kids will be 
able to type these into their browser consoles and see magic happen in 
front of their eyes.  I'm talking about giving kids of the same kind of 
experience that us 30 or 40-somethings had when we tapped those BASIC 
programs from BYTE magazine into black screens with glowing green 
characters.

In today's world, there is such a schism between the experiences of end 
users and developers.  When I was in 5th grade, we had a programming class 
taught by our Math teacher.  These kinds of things are extremely important 
to teach kids when their minds are eager to learn.

So basically, the way that we think about what our computers are all about 
needs to start evolving, and it is really up to programmers to start 
programming in ways that are new/exciting/experimental (just like when we 
were kids!) rather than so mind numbingly dull.


On Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:26:06 PM UTC-4, P. Douglas Reeder wrote:
>
> One mashup to rule them all? That's a tall order. 
>
> If you're looking to supplant the WIMP paradigm, you should be familiar 
> with "The Anti-Mac Interface" (really a post-Macintosh UI): 
> http://www.useit.com/papers/anti-mac.html 
>
>

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

[nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[P. Douglas Reeder]

One mashup to rule them all? That's a tall order.

If you're looking to supplant the WIMP paradigm, you should be familiar with 
"The Anti-Mac Interface" (really a post-Macintosh 
UI): http://www.useit.com/papers/anti-mac.html

-- 
Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
Posting guidelines: 
https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "nodejs" group.
To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

[nodejs] Re: "Evil OS X"... the perfect client to a node server!

[Dennis Kane]

Well, I think that we can all agree that the idea of a purely portable 
desktop environment is a highly compelling one, and that there are many 
ways to approach the problem.  There is, of course, the VNC approach, 
wherein all of our actions are transmitted over the wire in order to 
control a remote computer.  The problem of having to wait on all of the 
network delays obviously leaves much to be desired.

Another way of approaching it is to think of a desktop as a purely logical 
construct that can be represented fairly well by, for example, a JSON 
object.  This will allow us to abstract way the "form" of the desktop from 
its "content" fairly well.  (What I mean by the "form" is simply the 
locations of icons and the locations + sizes of windows.  By "content", I 
am talking about the actual data in the files that the icons represent.)

All of the form related stuff can be transmitted by JSON blazingly fast, 
and the local user will be able to control his/her in-browser desktop 
without delay.  But the content may very well still be sitting on the 
remote server, so double clicking on an icon might result in an 
indeterminate delay before the content is fully loaded, depending on file 
size and network conditions.  But now we can cache the content, and we 
won't have to suffer the same delay again... as long as the cache is still 
intact, of course.

But even beyond the idea of desktop portability, there remains to crucial 
problem of how to locate, retrieve, and render the various bits of 
information that are scattered all over the WWW.

In my opinion, all of the past attempts at developing web based desktop 
environments have failed because they were, at their hearts, focused 
primarily on replicating native desktop functionality by any means 
necessary (eg, Flash based desktops) rather than on making actual, 
functioning websites more responsive and comprehensible.  All of those past 
efforts amounted to nothing but curiosities because we just don't need our 
web browsers as gateways to hackish, barely responsive desktop 
environments.  We will always need our web browsers as gateways to the 
wild, wonderful, weird place that is the WWW!

As it currently stands, it is next to impossible to reason with the content 
that is contained on remote machines.  This is because the URL schemes that 
we use are fairly arbitrary strings of text.  That is, in order to locate a 
remote resource, we have to get our grubby little hands on some string that 
looks something like 
"http://www.somedumbdomain.com/stupidpage?crazy_param=flux&dumb_arg=spam&weird_sid=Gjsk3MKs5hsgf6jeO7Iwjn8YUKs";,
 
and on and on it goes.  To the end user, these are incomprehensible, 
indecipherible messes.  They only make sense to the backend URL parsing 
algorithms.

And even when we are able to locate a remote resource, due to the fact that 
the crucial information is usually buried inside of a messy HTML document, 
we are often no wiser because of our inability to sift through the layout 
markup in order to finally get to the data that we seek.

So in order to inject some sanity into our online experiences, we have to 
start thinking about how to allow users to locate the various bits of 
content that they are after in much more intuitive ways.  And you can't get 
more intuitive that icons sitting on desktops and in folders!  In this 
case, a user is no longer forced to remember a random string of text known 
as a URL... all he/she has to do is know what the icon looks like, and in 
which folder it might be located.

And power users will be able to reason about remote content using familiar 
Unix path notation (/path/to/the/file).  They will be able to trivially 
write scripts that perform various actions depending on whatever state the 
remote content is in (eg current weather or traffic conditions).  No longer 
will developers be forced to construct convoluted GET requests in order to 
retrieve some little bit of information.  There can simply be a "file" 
named something like "/home/dennis/weather.info" that we can open up by 
double-clicking or via script... and now we are enlightened!

I am simply trying to make our web browsing experiences better rather than 
making our desktop experiences worse.  No one will ever get excited about 
offers of desktops that sit in browser windows.  But the idea of having the 
world at our fingertips from within the context of a familiar, intuitive 
interface is something entirely new and exciting!  And being able to reason 
about the world via programs that are trivial to write is something that 
should make all of us programmers positively delirious!! 

So the trick now is to get web developers to stop obsessing so much over 
serving up full fledged HTML documents, and to start thinking about how to 
offer services that deliver compact, essential nuggets of JSON data that 
can be delivered into these kinds of in-browser GUIs at blazingly fast 
speeds.


On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:36:37 PM