Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] NVIDIA Quadro 2000 1 Gbyte Graphics Card
On Tue, 2012-01-17 at 19:48 +, ron.daw...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone used OI with a NVIDIA Quadro 2000 graphics card? I'm looking to pick up a couple of workstations for development work and the options for graphics card are the Quadro 2000 or the Quadro 5000. I have Quadro 600, wh/I believe is same generation/family/architecture as the 2000, working under OI. Initially (about a year ago) there was some issues of the card being recognized, but this seems to have been resolved in oi-151a. hth- Ken -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris 11 source code leaked?
On Tue, 2011-12-20 at 15:13 +0100, Robin Axelsson wrote:
On 2011-12-20 13:24, Dave Koelmeyer wrote:
On 12/21/11 12:43 AM, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote:
The most they can do is politely asking not to use it.
Am I wrong?
Yes. This is Oracle we're talking about here. I can't quite believe
anyone is even seriously contemplating this.
Perhaps it is best to wait and see what the people at Oracle will say or
do. Maybe the leak came because the Solaris development didn't gain the
momentum they desired or expected.
If that's the case then maybe it might be possible to convince them to
collaborate more closely and contribute more to the Illumos/OI project.
There's no need to be more hostile than necessary.
Ah, the young and naive. So cute. Goochi, goochi, goo. Time for
baby's nap...
See Christopher Chan's post when you wake up :-{
--
Regards-- Ken Gunderson
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] vi backspace remapping weirdness
On Fri, 2011-12-09 at 18:01 -0800, Reginald Beardsley wrote: Never mind. I just realized it's the gnome-terminal playing w/ my mind :-( Gnome likes to do that. Just wait until you get a load of Gnome3 :-P -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Problem with high cpu load (oi_151a)
On Thu, 2011-10-20 at 18:44 +0200, Gernot Wolf wrote: Hello all, I have a machine here at my home running OpenIndiana oi_151a, which serves as a NAS on my home network. The original install was OpenSolaris 2009.6 which was later upgraded to snv_134b, and recently to oi_151a. So far this OSOL (now OI) box has performed excellently, with one major exception: Sometimes, after a reboot, the cpu load was about 50-60%, although the system was doing nothing. Until recently, another reboot solved the issue. This does not work any longer. The system has always a cpu load of 50-60% when idle (and higher of course when there is actually some work to do). I've already googled the symptoms. This didn't turn up very much useful info, and the few things I found didn't apply to my problem. Most noticably was this problem which could be solved by disabling cpupm in /etc/power.conf, but trying that didn't show any effect on my system. So I'm finally out of my depth. I have to admit that my knowledge of Unix is superficial at best, so I decided to try looking for help here. I've run several diagnostic commands like top, powertop, lockstat etc. and attached the results to this email (I've zipped the results of kstat because they were 1MB). One important thing is that when I boot into the oi_151a live dvd instead of booting into the installed system, I also get the high cpu load. I mention this because I have installed several things on my OI box like vsftpd, svn, netstat etc. I first thought that this problem might be caused by some of this extra stuff, but getting the same system when booting the live dvd ruled that out (I think). The machine is a custom build medium tower: S-775 Intel DG965WHMKR ATX mainbord Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 CPU 1.8GHz 1x IDE DVD recorder 1x IDE HD 200GB (serves as system drive) 6x SATA II 1.5TB HD (configured as zfs raidz2 array) I have to solve this problem. Although the system runs fine and absolutely serves it's purpose, having the cpu at 50-60% load constantly is a waste of energy and surely a rather unhealthy stress on the hardware. Anyone any ideas...? One. But I haven't even made cursory scan of your logs. Nor do I know if it is problem any longer but I used to see similar with bge driver. Worked great on OS 2009.06 but subsequent stuff horked it up somehow. My solution was to use the other nvidia based interface. I think there is/was a bug file on Illumos Redmine? Others will surely know more but quick test you can do is to try a different network driver and see if the problem goes away. hth-- Ken -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Problem with high cpu load (oi_151a)
On Thu, 2011-10-20 at 19:34 +0200, Gernot Wolf wrote: Wow, that was fast :) Just caught me with the morning coffee email review. However, the NIC integrated on the Intel DG965WHMKR mainbord is an Intel 82566DC according to the device driver utility, the reported driver e1000g. Isn't the bge driver for Broadcom NICs? And like I said, I didn't even scan the logs. Just quick idea off top of my head based on similar behavior. Could well be entirely different underlying cause. Yes, the bge is broadcom but I think there have been issues with other nics. And what do you mean by the other nvidia based interface? This mainboard has only this one integrated network interface mentioned above, no pieces of nvidia hardware anywhere, as far as I can see... I didn't mean to imply that I had the same mainboard you reported. I have a few different nics lying around so for me this was easy test: bge - high cpu load under 'idle'; nvidia - goes away. Nevertheless it could be worth to try a different network driver. However, as I mentioned in my previous post, my know-how concerning unix is very limited. Where can I find an alternative driver for the Intel 82566DC interface and how do I install it? Is this laptop of desktop? If latter, can you just try a different card? If so, OI should automatically detect and load appropriate driver. Anyway, thanks for your quick response! :) Np. Sorry is wasn't much help. But I see others are putting you on diagnostic dtrace track so I'll bow out now. Good luck :) -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Tue, 2011-10-11 at 09:16 +0100, Peter Tribble wrote: On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:53 PM, Dan Swartzendruber dswa...@druber.com wrote: And this continues to miss the point. ... but honestly, it's beyond frustrating to find out that there is no obvious way to do the /etc/rc.local thing I kvetched about earlier Which point are you missing? You rc.local thing is trivially easy to address, there are well known and obvious ways to do it, and several people pointed out how you could do so in a few seconds. There are lots of things in OI that need fixing, seeing people making up non-existent problems and bikeshedding about forums vs smtp and users vs developers and OS choices is so frustrating. Hello Peter: I think your accusations of bikeshedding are unfounded and unkind. Many stayed out of this discussion until noting that a few oi-dev regulars like Alasdair, jeffpc, drlou, herzen, etc. expressed some interest in exploring possibility of forums. Such being the case, it seems more than appropriate for further discussion to occur on oi-discuss - note the word following the hyphen there - where a broader cross section of oi users might have the opportunity to weigh in. I have been involved in various projects over the years that that utilized mlm long before forums were an option. Yet when some, e.g. FreeBSD, finally acknowledged the changing times the issue was discussed before anyone ran out and launched forums.freebsd.org. To the best of my knowledge I have _never_ used these forums, but I don't bitch about them being available for others. Or that others talked about it at some length before moving forward with rolling them out. Yes, the forum issue has come up before in oi, but to my awareness, not for a little while now, and not ever discussed in any depth. Yeah, us old dogs have seen these arguments before and may have a tendency to sigh and shake our heads. But that doesn't make them irrelevant to the discussion at hand. People disagreeing, discussing, etc. on oi-discuss is not a bad thing. Yes, a couple people got a bit heated and sunk to some mild name calling, but this was nothing even close to what happens from time to time on even high profile projects. Those so easily offended need to grow thicker skin. Maybe never move out from Mommy's house. Or whatever. My $0.02 Peace-- -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 09:56 +0200, Open Indiana wrote: It might be an idea to look at www.opennms.org. They also struggle with documentation, users, updates and helpfiles but manage to get it good pretty well. Whoa! It's been a while since I've been to OpenNMS's site. Nice redesign. Much better than the wiki they used to use. Kind of a bummer that they went so commercial though on the .com side. So now we likely know where the $ and impetus came for the new site. Hope it isn't the beginning of the end of a truly open OpenNMS. In my experience, however, in such cases it isn't too long before 1) you start seeing major features being withheld from the free version, and/or 2) the free version becomes the alpha testing branch, and/or 3) refactor and license change at some major rev level. That said, OpenNMS isn't doing anything special that any other mature FOSS project hasn't figured out - it just took them many, many more years to get there than most so I'm not sure they'd be the best role model in that department. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 21:21 +0200, Alexander Lesle wrote: Hello Любомир Григоров and List, On Oktober, 10 2011, 18:59 Любомир Григоров wrote in [1]: I'll take a couple of people with a clue over a hundred _looking_ for a clue any day. It will be just as I said earlier - the userland will consist of the devs and a bunch of fanboys, no one will know the OS and will just view it as another one. This whole conversation and all the emails in it just proves OI is not ready to be a real OS. Maybe in 10 years after it matures I will give it another go. Like things stand, it's headed in the OpenBSD path. +1 Sad but true. This is such BULLSHIT!!! Would OI be as successful as OpenBSD. Or FreeBSD!! So you *BSD bashers might just want to back off and scratch it a bit before making such categorical broad sweeping statements. THE reason alternatives to Linux have been able to persist is that not EVERYONE wants Linux. Indeed, the more advanced/seasoned the person seems to be the greater the probability that they will value/utilize a Linux alternative precisely because it is NOT hampered by Linux's shortcomings. Following/emulating Linux is a mistake. Sun should have learned that at least a couple years earlier and they may not have become the financial disaster that led to the current Oracle mess. Instead, OI should actively strive to DIFFERENTIATE itself from Linux, lest it become relegated to yet another fanboy distro of the month. Those of you who want/need Linux please, by all means, go use Linux!!! But please, please, please stop lobbying to turn OI into Linux. Peace-- -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 17:32 -0400, Dan Swartzendruber wrote: A couple of thoughts: OSX is a dreadful wrong example. If you polled 1 million Mac users and asked them 'what OS runs under the hood?', my guess is 95% would have no idea what you are talking about. Secondly, throwing vague statements out about the 'shortcomings of linux' is at best non-helpful, and at worst discredits you. I am a Software Engineer, and it irks me to no end to have to retain N different tool/command sets in my memory for no good reason. Whether you like it or not, Linux (and to a lesser extent, the various BSD dialects) are what most folks know and are comfortable with. Presenting them with yet another flavor of Unix, with a command/tool set that is too distant is going to result in the person walking away and settling for redhat/ubuntu/debian or whatever. I kind of hinted at this in an earlier post - if I didn't have to use OI or some flavor of OS to get ZFS for my SAN, I would have gone elsewhere like a shot. BSD and Linux are pretty close when most of the commands are considered - OS is much less so, and that is what is going to relegate it to a niche system unless something changes. And no, I'm not an opposing fanboy or basher, just a realist... But... OI DOES have ZFS. And Linux effectively does not. Hence viva la' difference because had OI copied Linux it would not either. My comment was not directed at anyone in particular, but more broadly scoped to include various posts that seem to keep holding up Linux like it's the holy grail. I don't need another Linux option. I do have an interest/need in something better than Linux, e.g. zfs, dtrace, and other enterprise grade features that Linux presently lacks. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 17:49 -0400, Richard L. Hamilton wrote: On Oct 10, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Dan Swartzendruber wrote: A couple of thoughts: OSX is a dreadful wrong example. If you polled 1 million Mac users and asked them 'what OS runs under the hood?', my guess is 95% would have no idea what you are talking about. Secondly, throwing vague statements out about the 'shortcomings of linux' is at best non-helpful, and at worst discredits you. I am a Software Engineer, and it irks me to no end to have to retain N different tool/command sets in my memory for no good reason. Whether you like it or not, Linux (and to a lesser extent, the various BSD dialects) are what most folks know and are comfortable with. Presenting them with yet another flavor of Unix, with a command/tool set that is too distant is going to result in the person walking away and settling for redhat/ubuntu/debian or whatever. I kind of hinted at this in an earlier post - if I didn't have to use OI or some flavor of OS to get ZFS for my SAN, I would have gone elsewhere like a shot. BSD and Linux are pretty close when most of the commands are considered - OS is much less so, and that is what is going to relegate it to a niche system unless something changes. And no, I'm not an opposing fanboy or basher, just a realist… Does it _matter_ if users know what runs under the hood? OS X is pretty good, but the Solaris kernel is more reliable. If other things are somewhere near comparable, I might not care if I could spout the lineage of the kernel as long as the OS was reliable and somewhere near competitive on features or whatever. Any argument like that against Solaris would only hold if one wanted to run it on hardware obtained by dumpster-diving. On a reasonable subset of modern hardware, it's simply likely to cause less mystery headaches than most alternatives (arguably including Linux). On a properly configured server or appliance or VM, there's no comparison. I've seen Solaris and Linux VMs, no hardware issues there, but between OOM killers and other non-deterministic behavior on Linux (like even keeping ntpd alive!), there's no comparison. The toolset has been converging, with a number of commands picking up those GNU options that weren't inconsistent with what was already present; and the GNU versions can trivially be made available somewhere other than /usr/bin. All it takes is an account creation tool that makes it easy to set up a new account with the appropriate PATH, and maybe a defaults file for that tool so that a site can make their own choice of what the default should be, leaving individual users the option to differ, if they wish to bear the burden of perhaps less familiarity by the local help desk. And that could be pushed back one step further, making the setting of those defaults an installation-time option, something perhaps as simple as installing an optional package that provides some additional customization. Some of the GNU tools are better (gawk vs nawk is my usual example); some are worse (get Jeorg Schilling to tell you how much worse GNU tar is). Choosing the GNU tools for familiarity's sake _might_ (although I don't agree) be a valid argument if it had to be either-or. But it's not hard to make it both-and…probably easier than arguing about it. Right. My issue is not with incorporating things from Gnu/Linux based on technical criteria that have been evaluated and discussed. Nor anti Linux. I'm on a Debian workstation now. My issue is with the we should do this so we can be more like Linux (and I think by implied flawed extension that this would make OI attractive to legions of Linux converts) when there's no technically based reason to do so. This is OI. Let's be OI and build the best mouse trap on the planet. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 18:53 -0400, Dan Swartzendruber wrote: And this continues to miss the point. This is what is so frustrating to me (going back years...) Techies like you guys make a decision based on the technical merits, but 95% of the manager/sysadmin types are going to look at the learning curve (and don't bother telling me it doesn't exist or is trivial - maybe in your book, not in theirs), and ask why on earth do we want to do X when our admins will have to learn all kinds of new crap??? FWIW, if zfsguru was more stable and didn't have a single dev, I would have switched to it in a heartbeat. I know my way around most linuxes (and even freebsd) in my sleep, but honestly, it's beyond frustrating to find out that there is no obvious way to do the /etc/rc.local thing I kvetched about earlier (or an alternative, to put an entry in the crontab with '@reboot', oh wait, the opensolaris cron doesn't support that feature...) And yes, I know none of these things are killers in themselves, it's the death of a thousand cuts. Folks, I *want* opensolaris in some flavor to prosper, but when I hear evangelists complaining about why should we make this MORE like linux, etc... The answer SO PEOPLE WILL USE IT?! Sorry, I'm tired and out of sorts, and I saw freebsd lose this battle to linux years ago with the same short-sighted attitude and now it's happening again with OS (btw, does anyone have a comment about nexenta providing debian userland tools like apt?) FreeBSD loosing any battle is debatable. I do feel compelled to point out, however, that Linus himself has said that if not for the legal battle that was waging between att and uc regents at the time, he would have just used bsd. Linux later experienced, and survived, some legal wrangling of its own. Plenty of people use FreeBSD. And OpenBSD. Often w/o knowing as as they silently pass/filter packets, server up smtp, http, etc. That these desktop users are not running these platforms on their peecee's does mean that they don't still use them extensively as they move about the Internet. And I guess it is equally frustrating and exasperating that some continue to just not get this. Peace :_) -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 20:26 -0400, Richard L. Hamilton wrote: On Oct 10, 2011, at 6:53 PM, Dan Swartzendruber wrote: And this continues to miss the point. This is what is so frustrating to me (going back years...) Techies like you guys make a decision based on the technical merits, but 95% of the manager/sysadmin types are going to look at the learning curve (and don't bother telling me it doesn't exist or is trivial - maybe in your book, not in theirs), and ask why on earth do we want to do X when our admins will have to learn all kinds of new crap??? FWIW, if zfsguru was more stable and didn't have a single dev, I would have switched to it in a heartbeat. I know my way around most linuxes (and even freebsd) in my sleep, but honestly, it's beyond frustrating to find out that there is no obvious way to do the /etc/rc.local thing I kvetched about earlier (or an alternative, to put an entry in the crontab with '@reboot', oh wait, the opensolaris cron doesn't support that feature...) And yes, I know none of these things are killers in themselves, it's the death of a thousand cuts. Folks, I *want* opensolaris in some flavor to prosper, but when I hear evangelists complaining about why should we make this MORE like linux, etc... The answer SO PEOPLE WILL USE IT?! Sorry, I'm tired and out of sorts, and I saw freebsd lose this battle to linux years ago with the same short-sighted attitude and now it's happening again with OS (btw, does anyone have a comment about nexenta providing debian userland tools like apt?) I'm interested in arrangements that allow traditional Solaris and GNU tools to coexist. I'm not so interested in a pure Linux environment. I doubt that coexistence is furthered by the choice of apt packaging. One could also imagine a Nexenta branded zone under a more conventional Solaris environment. But that doesn't address the differences between administrative tools. I'm not opposed to compromise. But I have zero use for an environment that is exclusively to the advantage of those familiar with Linux. I've been using Solaris since 2.3 (late 1993 - 2.x x3 weren't worth using, except for porting or familiarization). Linux was barely around then, and not significant. The only reason that it caught on is that it was free (to use or modify, but real support always costs), and a bit more accessible than the BSDs were at the time. I have no more wish to conform to what's familiar to you than you do to conform to what's familiar to me. Think of ways to provide co-existence or alternatives built on the same core, and I'm fine with that; I've tossed out a few ideas along those lines. Keep making the case for having it entirely your way, and I'll say that I for one have no use for your case or anything, even millions of new users (yuck, unwashed masses), that comes with your case. I've dialed it back a lot in this message. I don't mind people wanting things their own way, as long as their way doesn't exclude mine. They do that, and I don't handle it well at all, not with both of us on the same planet. This, I think, is pretty well said. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 19:32 -0600, LinuxBSDos.com wrote: Hi All, [snip] The demo is still up at http://linuxbsdos.com/askopenindiana. If the community does not want it, if the decision makers are against it, I can just take it down. It took less than 10 minutes to put it up, and will probably take less than that to take down. -1 -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 19:27 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: On 10/10/11 07:16 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 19:32 -0600, LinuxBSDos.com wrote: Hi All, [snip] The demo is still up at http://linuxbsdos.com/askopenindiana. If the community does not want it, if the decision makers are against it, I can just take it down. It took less than 10 minutes to put it up, and will probably take less than that to take down. -1 That's not helpful, without giving any reason why. You're not going to be forced to use it, so why deprive others who would of the opportunity to do so? If you asked a bunch of non-OpenSolaris/OpenIndiana users on whether the OI project should continue, and they all voted -1, would you want people to quit working on it? I am referring to Vanilla forum package. So not to deprive anyone of anything. If OI wants to roll out a forum, I would look at other alternatives, the specifics of wh/I did not want to hijack OP's solicitation for feedback on vanilla demo to elaborate upon, lest this deteriorate further. The way to go about it, imho, is to survey the landscape and generate a short list. I don't think Vanilla should be on that list and have commented as to some of the reasons why elsewhere. But I think that's a topic for another thread. Peace :) -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 23:51 -0400, Alex Viskovatoff wrote: On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 23:05 -0400, Richard L. Hamilton wrote: If you think it preferable to compare various options first, there's a site http://www.forummatrix.org/ that seems to compare a bunch of forum software (including Vanilla). That's interesting. If you use the following criteria: You want some Forum that is Free and Open Source and with support to attach files and which stores data in Postgres and featuring RSS/ATOM. you get these twelve candidates: DjangoBB FUDforum GroupServer JForum mvnForum mwForum MyBB NextBBS Phorum phpBB SMF Vanilla I personally feel that the forum should be able to display threads in both threaded and flat mode, which eliminates seven, resulting in: FUDforum mwForum MyBB NextBBS Phorum Yes, this is one reason to rule out Vanilla. But shouldn't we start a dedicated Forum Package Option thread before we get too into specifics? -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 18:35 -0600, LinuxBSDos.com wrote: As Bernd Helber remarked, forums can play a significant role in Linux distributions, as they allow users to have conversations. It would be great if an initiative to create one for OI could be started. I agree that forums are more user-friendly when you're searching for an answer that already exists. However, I find mailing lists easier to interact with and reply to on a regular basis. I think the reason the OpenSolaris forums worked so well is that each forum also had a mailing list bridged with it, so you got the best of both worlds (easy search and easy participation). My request would be the the mailing lists not be dumped in favor of forums, but rather set up as another way of participating with the forums. I didn't call for abandoning the mailing list, rather for setting up something that is more community-oriented. Mailing Lists are inherently community oriented. That some other johnny-come-lately technology, e.g. web based forums, has subsequently gained popularity does not invalidate mailing lists communities. I haven't looked in recent years, but the last time I did look, port 25, not port 80, was responsible for the lions share of Internet traffic. And if modern numbers reverse that, it may be more of an artifact that web pages are ten to 50 times fatter than they were back in the day when I had to keep 28k modem (the cat's meow at the time because it had doubled the previous speed) capabilities in mind. And yes, with streaming media port 80 may well have supplanted 25 but my point remains valid. I personally much, much prefer mlm's because its a push, rather than pull medium. Once I'm subscribed to a list, everything is there in my inbox. The problem might be finding it, but that's another problem. Modern MLM's, e.g. Mailman, typically sport searchable web archives as well for those desiring pull medium. That doesn't mean forums are useless. I like forums too. But for technical discussions I prefer mailing lists. For example, consider a newbie querry. If posted to mlm, the q AND as well as any and all follow ups are pushed to the entire community at large. Maybe joe grey beard expert spots an error in the part of the response that isn't quite correct, so they post follow up. If web forums, this expert may never see the question or follow ups unless they take the time to pull from the web site. So forums need larger base out of the gate to reach critical mass compared to mlm. Bridging the two may sound like a good solution, but I've _never_ seen such a solution that actually worked _well_ in practice. At least for those of us who prefer mlm, as threads rapidly become horked up top the point were one now _must_ view via forum interface to be able to follow. One area where web forums clearly superior to mlm is where you have want/need to monetize the community via ads and such. Now I don't want to scare you off from contributing to OI but I think much of what you say is predicated upon some erroneous assumptions as well as your personal preferences, wh/because you can point to some others who share those preferences becomes a mandate for OI to follow. This is not necessarily so. I also curious if you may have _any_ type of affiliation with Vanilla because I'm pretty familiar w/a number of forum packages, never heard of vanilla until recently, and fail to see what, if any, advantage it offers over various alternatives. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Sun, 2011-10-09 at 02:51 -0400, Richard L. Hamilton wrote: On Oct 8, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Josef 'Jeff' Sipek wrote: On Sat, Oct 08, 2011 at 06:35:57PM -0600, LinuxBSDos.com wrote: As Bernd Helber remarked, forums can play a significant role in Linux distributions, as they allow users to have conversations. It would be great if an initiative to create one for OI could be started. I agree that forums are more user-friendly when you're searching for an answer that already exists. However, I find mailing lists easier to interact with and reply to on a regular basis. I think the reason the OpenSolaris forums worked so well is that each forum also had a mailing list bridged with it, so you got the best of both worlds (easy search and easy participation). My request would be the the mailing lists not be dumped in favor of forums, but rather set up as another way of participating with the forums. I didn't call for abandoning the mailing list, rather for setting up something that is more community-oriented. So, who's gonna make the decision? I think that having a bridge between the two would be great. Either way, we could set up some experimental thing and see if it works. Jeff. I must be old-fashioned, but I find an NNTP server easier than forums (and less junk accumulating on my mail server). Seamonkey has an adequate reader, although I prefer knews. Those have nice threading, killfiles, etc. And they're usually _much_ faster and less problems than a web forum. +1!!! Sad that newer generation seems to have missed this very useful protocol - indeed, as some have argued, the original groupware. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Sun, 2011-10-09 at 12:32 -0700, Gregory Youngblood wrote: On Oct 9, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Sun, 2011-10-09 at 02:51 -0400, Richard L. Hamilton wrote: On Oct 8, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Josef 'Jeff' Sipek wrote: On Sat, Oct 08, 2011 at 06:35:57PM -0600, LinuxBSDos.com wrote: As Bernd Helber remarked, forums can play a significant role in Linux distributions, as they allow users to have conversations. It would be great if an initiative to create one for OI could be started. I agree that forums are more user-friendly when you're searching for an answer that already exists. However, I find mailing lists easier to interact with and reply to on a regular basis. I think the reason the OpenSolaris forums worked so well is that each forum also had a mailing list bridged with it, so you got the best of both worlds (easy search and easy participation). My request would be the the mailing lists not be dumped in favor of forums, but rather set up as another way of participating with the forums. I didn't call for abandoning the mailing list, rather for setting up something that is more community-oriented. So, who's gonna make the decision? I think that having a bridge between the two would be great. Either way, we could set up some experimental thing and see if it works. Jeff. I must be old-fashioned, but I find an NNTP server easier than forums (and less junk accumulating on my mail server). Seamonkey has an adequate reader, although I prefer knews. Those have nice threading, killfiles, etc. And they're usually _much_ faster and less problems than a web forum. +1!!! Sad that newer generation seems to have missed this very useful protocol - indeed, as some have argued, the original groupware. Yes. as I said in a previous message, it seems the new generation of internet users are really web users. If it's not on the web it's doesn't really count. Sad. Yet I have NEVER gone to e.g. FreeBSD forums for an answer. Maybe they got some good people there. I don't know. But I DO know that the lists are where the true experts hang out. Now if all you need is someone to point you to /etc or something ??? The point is that it depends a lot on the particular community. And it's goals. OpenBSD, for example, has now desires for world domination and could care less whether I eat their dog food or not. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Sun, 2011-10-09 at 11:43 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: On 10/ 9/11 11:37 AM, Ken Gunderson wrote: I haven't looked in recent years, but the last time I did look, port 25, not port 80, was responsible for the lions share of Internet traffic. I don't think that's been true for many years. Last I heard, YouTube Netflix dominated the bandwidth. So yeah, Alan, you snipped my after thought were I corrected myself. So let's factor out streaming media. Then, I think, smtp would still be quite large proportion. I personally much, much prefer mlm's because its a push, rather than pull medium. Once I'm subscribed to a list, everything is there in my inbox. The problem might be finding it, but that's another problem. Modern MLM's, e.g. Mailman, typically sport searchable web archives as well for those desiring pull medium. That's why I participate actively in dozens of mailing lists, but don't have time to around checking dozens of forum sites. The only forum-like site I really stay involved with is the StackOverflow family, but that's mainly via monitoring various tags there via RSS feeds in Thunderbird. Which is basically to say that great minds think alike At least on this one ;-P -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 09:16 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote: On Monday, October 10, 2011 04:56 AM, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Sun, 2011-10-09 at 11:43 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: On 10/ 9/11 11:37 AM, Ken Gunderson wrote: I haven't looked in recent years, but the last time I did look, port 25, not port 80, was responsible for the lions share of Internet traffic. I don't think that's been true for many years. Last I heard, YouTube Netflix dominated the bandwidth. So yeah, Alan, you snipped my after thought were I corrected myself. So let's factor out streaming media. Then, I think, smtp would still be quite large proportion. And how much of that bandwidth is spam? That might bring down the numbers for smtp versus http. Doesn't really matter when you factor in banner ads associated with http. The glory days of the internet being populated by academics is history. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 09:52 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote: On Monday, October 10, 2011 09:45 AM, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 09:16 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote: On Monday, October 10, 2011 04:56 AM, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Sun, 2011-10-09 at 11:43 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: On 10/ 9/11 11:37 AM, Ken Gunderson wrote: I haven't looked in recent years, but the last time I did look, port 25, not port 80, was responsible for the lions share of Internet traffic. I don't think that's been true for many years. Last I heard, YouTube Netflix dominated the bandwidth. So yeah, Alan, you snipped my after thought were I corrected myself. So let's factor out streaming media. Then, I think, smtp would still be quite large proportion. And how much of that bandwidth is spam? That might bring down the numbers for smtp versus http. Doesn't really matter when you factor in banner ads associated with http. The glory days of the internet being populated by academics is history. True that. I don't hit forums or even nntp nowadays. If I do go to a forum, it is because it is the only choice available. That push thing about mailing lists is a winner. But it does show a segmentation of the community - end users/system administrators. I would characterize more as newbie vs. intermediate/seasoned users. The latter being more likely to be familiar with protocols other than http. For example, many newbies have yet to figure out that chat is not much more than glorified irc running on a different port but perfectly capable of utilizing irc for desktop support questions once they've had the opportunity to get a clue or two. For the record, I don't do much nttp these days either - and I am now curious if that may be because it's more pull like than the push I get from smtp??? H. Not to beat a dead horse, as we basically agree on the big push vs. pull picture. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 18:12 -0400, Alex Viskovatoff wrote: Hi Fini, On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 11:56 -0600, LinuxBSDos.com wrote: Hi, There seems to be plenty of resources for devs, but very little for end-users, especially those new to the Solaris way of doing stuff. There is a general discussion list, but I think it would be better if all that discussion takes place in a forum-like setting, instead of via a mailing list. I can volunteer to help set up and maintain one, and take care of other basic web-related chores. The idea that OpenIndiana should have a forum has come up before, but nothing has happened with that, because no one has stepped forward to create one. I did long ago and also threw out a couple of suggestions but iirc correctly the consensus was that the mailing lists worked fine and oi's limited resources would be better utilized elsewhere?? It's been some time though so maybe I'm having a brain fart. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 17:34 -0700, Gregory Youngblood wrote: On Oct 8, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Jason J. W. Williams wrote: As Bernd Helber remarked, forums can play a significant role in Linux distributions, as they allow users to have conversations. It would be great if an initiative to create one for OI could be started. I agree that forums are more user-friendly when you're searching for an answer that already exists. However, I find mailing lists easier to interact with and reply to on a regular basis. I think the reason the OpenSolaris forums worked so well is that each forum also had a mailing list bridged with it, so you got the best of both worlds (easy search and easy participation). My request would be the the mailing lists not be dumped in favor of forums, but rather set up as another way of participating with the forums. +1 At least initially, having the mailing list bridged with the forums provides best of all possibilities. If we see a nice surge in users/traffic, then the volume might tend to cause mailing list traffic to grow too unwieldy, but we can cross that bridge if we ever get to it. And, it would be a great problem to have too. :) Oh god, please no! Not another lame forum/mlm cluster fsck -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Java 7
On Sun, 2011-07-31 at 15:31 -0700, Gary Driggs wrote: On Jul 31, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: The problem in this instance is that Sun DID open source many cool things and post Sun take over Oracle has been systematically undoing Sun's open source gifting via a variety of innovative tactics at pretty much every chance they can, If I understand things correctly, part of the problem at Sun involved their bizarre sales bonus policy that was based on volume instead of profit. Not germane to the discussion at hand... often in tandem with exorbitant increases in licensing fees. And for that they have earned much well deserved criticism. Have you ever paid support for AIX or HP/UX and the hardware it runs on? Solaris prices may seem exorbitant by x86 standards but they're still quite competitive with other enterprise big- or bi-endian architectures. I wouldn't say they're even in the ballpark of being comparable. Unless perhaps you're talking IBM mainframe, the details of which I'm unfamiliar but hear is pretty spendy. A couple enterprises I'm familiar with saw dramatic price increases across the board. Coupled with the release of PostgreSQL 9, they are presently in process of ridding themselves of _everything_ Oracle. Additionally, it would be a far stretch to construe criticism of Oracle corporate policies enacted by upper management to extend to rank and file employees who That said, one might suggest that the golden parachuted former Sun Microsystems upper management is responsible for steering the company in to the weeds in the first place. And I didn't see Apple or Google making a bid for Sun (despite several aborted Apple/Sun mergers). So without someone to take them out of their nose dive, Sun assets would have ended up as just another large patent portfolio for sale a la Nortel. Again, not germane to the discussion at hand. Some companies are good and have a sense of ethics. Other companies are just outright bad, evil, greedy, unethical sob's. Sadly, imo, Oracle falls into this latter category. That Sun management was ineffective does in no way excuse this. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shorter subjects for mailing lists
On Mon, 2011-07-11 at 23:00 -0700, Gregory Youngblood wrote: On Jul 11, 2011, at 9:07 PM, Joshua M. Clulow wrote: On 2011-07-09 14:20, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: Most of us use GUI-based email readers that handle80char subjects. Is this really an issue? Yes, it is really an issue. Trying to make sense of mailing list subjects on my phone, for instance, is a bit tiresome. I have my mail app on half my screen and with my current setup the subject I see is Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Shorter su... My suggestion is to change the subject prefix in the list software from [OpenIndiana-discuss] to [oi-disc] and that will reclaim a lot of subject line real estate all by itself. My suggestion would be to use just oi for the general discussion list and leave hyphen whatever for more specialized lists, e.g. oi-dev, oi-bugs, etc. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] About the Gnome slowdowns
On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 19:24 +0530, Sriram Narayanan wrote: Hi everyone: I've been using openindiana as my primary desktop environment while I work on Belenix related development (illumos kernel, rpm, etc). I've not felt a single slow down ever in my use of OI. I've used both build 147 as well as 148. IPS sucks for me given the low bandwidth and the calculations it does each time. But Gnome itself it fine. However, I've seen these recent threads (one on branding, and one test drive) where Gnome was mentioned as being slow. Has anyone else also experienced this ? Are there any known reasons ? Pretty much everything seems to run slower on Slowaris on the desktop front. If in doubt, buy another hd, same as you're using now, and make a native install Linux poison of choice, e.g. Fedora 15, Debian-6, etc. (i.e. not virtualized) and the difference is quite noticeable. Solaris derivatives like OI have their attractions. But speed isn't one of them. At least this is my experience, since you asked. Let the flame fest begin... -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] About the Gnome slowdowns
On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 21:13 +0530, Sriram Narayanan wrote: On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 9:00 PM, Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net wrote: On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 19:24 +0530, Sriram Narayanan wrote: Hi everyone: I've been using openindiana as my primary desktop environment while I work on Belenix related development (illumos kernel, rpm, etc). I've not felt a single slow down ever in my use of OI. I've used both build 147 as well as 148. IPS sucks for me given the low bandwidth and the calculations it does each time. But Gnome itself it fine. However, I've seen these recent threads (one on branding, and one test drive) where Gnome was mentioned as being slow. Has anyone else also experienced this ? Are there any known reasons ? Pretty much everything seems to run slower on Slowaris on the desktop front. If in doubt, buy another hd, same as you're using now, and make a native install Linux poison of choice, e.g. Fedora 15, Debian-6, etc. (i.e. not virtualized) and the difference is quite noticeable. Slowlaris was a term used only for the TCP/IP stack of Solaris 9. The entire TCP/IP stack was changed with the FireEngine project which improved things a lot. Crossbow built on top of that and brought about even further improvements. Solaris 10 and above are not slow. Solaris derivatives like OI have their attractions. But speed isn't one of them. At least this is my experience, since you asked. Let the flame fest begin... I have asked if others have seen a slow Gnome desktop with OI, and if they know the reasons for this. Ken, I use a 4500 rpm disk for belenix and illumos builds, and everything works just fine for me. This has been the case since 2006. I run a very large setup at work, and I'm soon going to move over all our source code systems (git, hg, svn) onto openindiana. Here are some numbers that I consistently get every month (I check every month) for a specific disk intensive activity: 5400 rpm disk - Windows XP - 38 minutes 5400 rpm disk - Windows Server 2008 - 23 minutes 5400 rpm disk - Windows 7 - 17 minutes 5400 rpm disk - FC13 - 12 minutes 7200 rpm disk - Windows 7 - 17 minutes 7200 rpm disk - OSX - 8 minutes 4500 rpm disk - openindiana/illumos/build_111a - 4.5 minutes Here's another set of numbers: P4 2.2 Ghz with 2.72 TB RAIDZ and 8 GB RAM running Solaris 10 update 8 used for serving iSCSI content off ZFS filesystems - I have a specific requirement where I've snapshotted a 600 GB ZFS filesystem containing 9 VMs, and have then cloned this 20 times. This is for a test setup. After the cloning and regular use, I see that an overall diskspace of 800 GB has been used. I get no noticable performance difference at all. And this is with a single Ethernet card. These are my numbers. Given the above, and my own work with Belenix, as well as zero Gnome issues with OI, I've asked if anyone knows more. This was not asked to incite a flamefest, and I request that we don't walk that path. Hence my hesitancy to even reply in the first place. Since you mentioned Gnome specifically, my comments were directed specifically to desktop/workstation usage. Perhaps such is not the case with disk I/O or tcp/ip throughput. But again, such was also not the topic of your query. So back to your specific questions: Has anyone else also experienced this ? Are there any known reasons ? In _my_ experience Gnome is significantly slower on s10, OS, and OI. I have not investigated as to why this might be, as it pretty much always has been my experience, so I've just accepted it as one of the costs one pays to get the benefits of features such as zfs, crossbow, zones, etc. If this is not your experience, then that's fine with me. I have better things to do than argue the matter. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] About the Gnome slowdowns
On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 17:16 +0100, Colin Ellis wrote: Hi, I run OI 148 + patches on a sony laptop with 4GB of RAM using gnome as a desktop. I can say for me I don't notice any desktop slowness. A couple of points: -My graphics card is reasonably well supported. Ditto. -My laptop has plenty of ram - often an issue that can cause slowness as OI loves to cache disks heavily. Ditto. -the default flash player is broken on 148 and gives issues with full screen +1 But I'm also seeing this on Debian Wheezy, so I think maybe Flash or nvidia driver issue. video etc. Once that was updated I am able to play full screen HD video flawlessly. I also have custom-built blender that I also use without any issue and can render images at a similar speed to linux. -I updated my bios to allow me full 64 bit access Bugs I have found: -Gnome occasionally ends up corrupting itself on shutdown - not sure what's causing it and its not often enough to spend my time on. I end up losing +1 one of the top applets and have to re-insert it. -NWAM keeps losing my wifi connection. It's a nasty program and needs replacing with something that works properly. +1 I haven;t found any good reason not to use OI as a desktop (work) machine. One thing I would maybe push for is out of the box support for other filesystems such as ext2/3/4, vfat, etc On oi-151, I could not get any of the 4 different sound cards I have on hand to work, though I seem to recall the onboard nvidia worked with 148. Too many Gnome glitches on 151 to mention. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 16:53 -0700, Blake wrote: Does anyone besides me feel that we need a more unified naming/branding approach for the community-driven descendants of OpenSolaris? I feel that the there is no obvious connection (for those new to the platform) between Illumos/OpenIndiana, which I think is counterproductive given that OpenIndiana is sort of the 'Fedora Core' of Illumos. Some possible names: Illumos Live Illumos Core Illumos [version_number] - [adjective] [animal] Illumos is a different project. Hence all of the above are inappropriate. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 00:45 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote: kgund...@teamcool.net said: But all that is neither here nor there. The point is that your idea was/is lame. Yeah, but what do you think of my idea? And that your mother probably dresses you funny... Not for several decades, she hasn't (:-). kgund...@teamcool.net said: P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was intended to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P Phew, for a minute there I thought you might not entirely agree with me (:-). ...Marion Hakanson wrote: I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. OK, I may have exaggerated a bit. But I do like the name -- I think it's a clever play on words, in multiple directions. And the fact that most of my immediate family members are well-versed in the Harry Potter stories probably has nothing to do with it. I think it comes off as a less than successful effort to be witty. Nor does it roll off your tongue. OpenIndiana suffers from this as well, but hey, at least it leaves us with short and sweet contraction; oi, which rolls off the tongue quite agreeably, eh? I also think that it's time to make clean break from Oracle/Solaris dependencies/associations - particularly since Larry is doing such an excellent job of alienating SMB's and reasonably large sized enterprises alike. kgund...@teamcool.net said: I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to oi, as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is supposed to be an Open project (although Open has been so misused by marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco). I'm enough of an old Unix geek that I dislike the Indiana name's association with a project that was an attempt to make Solaris more Linux-like. I completely agree. Indiana was a marketroid driven effort to make things more Linux like, err.. I mean Ubuntu like, because all hip marketroids know that Linux equals Ubuntu. I'm also one of those who puts /usr/gnu/bin at the end of the PATH at install time (yet note that I do not remove it entirely), just so you know which segment of the target audience I'm in. Of course, my spouse is from Indiana, and that relationship is going pretty well, so you never can tell Never mind my opinion, however. We all know that I have no future in marketing, nor likely in any popular or for-profit enterprise of any kind. We now return you to your lameness-free content (:-) I'm not averse to dropping OpenIndiana in favor of something better. I AM against that being any kind of play/dependency on Illumos. I don't have anything against the Illumos project. But therein lies the salient issue - Illumos and OI are two separate projects. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 18:12 +0200, Nikolam wrote: As long as Anyone contribute a bit on some real projects and problems , there is always room for change in some future or something over branding. But currently I would rather shoot myself in the foot then changing branding in a moments mostly crucial to the distribution and core OS future. (And crucial moments are already all the time from the beginning - there is still to come stable OI release that could be recommended for production use an from where wider audience could be gathered. I woud rather like to see X server drivers (intel) movements , Xen support resurrected and High Availability put into the move and software porting community refreshed with more coherent IPS publishers hosted around. And newcomer contributors mentoring facilities. OI is what you get when you put uname -a and there and is already in a number of software and scripts using it to identify platform. I think that further changes in branding could be considered when development community is at least 10X the present volume. (And there IS a space for branched distributions production - a la Ubuntu,etc) If we put $5-10 in a Jar or spend hour or two on some distribution's coordinated effort, - every time we got Eureka idea about branding, then I wouldn't mind any great branding ideas. +1 -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote: I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is the opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is totally lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was. I think a Sun reference would be fitting. Why? The Sun has set some time ago. There's nothing to see here now. Time to move along, move along. Perhaps you're thinking that a reference to Sun obscure enough to avoid a lawsuit would in some way be attractive to business. I think the opposite - anyone who's been around for a while has their Oracle horror story so why would we want to associate. And by Oracle, I'm referencing the corporate entity, not contributing individuals who happen to be employed by same. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 22:46 -0400, Paul Gress wrote: On 06/20/11 10:32 PM, Magnus wrote: On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote: How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun) Mithros.org is available. I intentionally didn't capitalize the os. It's less awkward to read and to pronounce. There are some tenuous connections between Mithras Sol, the Sun God, in ancient Roman art. But it's a simple name, and the domain is available. Don't be a b*d and squat on this name if it's not going to be for the productive use of this project. ;) Moonshine. It goes along with Celestial objects (Moon), and Shine as in Rays of Sun. Also programming at night. Not to mention bootleg liquor!! -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 11:32 -0700, Blake wrote: I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive. Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young startups and newbie engineers. Rather than forcing a history lesson on them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform. Blake Amen, brother!! I about hurled reading Jake's reply. Glad to see that someone else gets it. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 15:34 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: On 06/21/2011 03:05 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 11:32 -0700, Blake wrote: I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive. Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young startups and newbie engineers. Rather than forcing a history lesson on them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform. Blake Amen, brother!! I about hurled reading Jake's reply. Glad to see that someone else gets it. Like it or not, Jake's reply is just as legitimate as yours. Solaris has caché to some, myself included. Me not knowing anything about it beyond the fact that it was SunOS before Solaris doesn't change a thing. Please don't be so dismissive. People bring different backgrounds and expectations to the discussion and it is good to hear all of them. I for one disagree with Blake - I am a newbie and am quite attracted to the legacy of Solaris by way of Illumos and OpenIndiana. Awesome! By all means we should be checking our rear view and ensuring we honor history rather than looking forward and making history. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 15:43 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: On 06/21/2011 03:38 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: Like it or not, Jake's reply is just as legitimate as yours. Solaris has caché to some, myself included. Me not knowing anything about it beyond the fact that it was SunOS before Solaris doesn't change a thing. Please don't be so dismissive. People bring different backgrounds and expectations to the discussion and it is good to hear all of them. I for one disagree with Blake - I am a newbie and am quite attracted to the legacy of Solaris by way of Illumos and OpenIndiana. Awesome! By all means we should be checking our rear view and ensuring we honor history rather than looking forward and making history. The two are not mutually exclusive, both are equally important. Wrong. Looking forward is much more important. Let Wikipedia memorialize the past. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 07:09 +1000, Matt Connolly wrote: On 21/06/2011, at 3:54 PM, Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net wrote: On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 23:03 -0600, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 19:58 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote: I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. Uh... Excuse me, but what have you been smoking? Drinking, maybe? I think Illumos is a pretty lame name, nothing against the people who chose it. I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to oi, as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is supposed to be an Open project (although Open has been so misused by marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco). But all that is neither here nor there. The point is that your idea was/is lame. And that your mother probably dresses you funny... P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was intended to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson Odd sense of humour, Ken... :/ Perhaps. But can we please get back to the bike shed now?? -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 19:58 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote: What's wrong with just illumos? If you need to distinguish, just use illumos, the kernel or illumos, OS/Net vs illumos, the distribution. The original OpenSolaris, the distribution was based on OpenSolaris, the kernel, and other distributions based on Opensolaris, the kernel did exist. One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. illumos desktop, illumos server, or illumos live usb, if needed. Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from illumos, the kernel, but it seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of OpenSolaris, the kernel for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base. Do we really need a different name for the main distribution? I personally find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm using a lot harder. I have to give a whole family tree history instead of just saying, Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11. I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. Uh... Excuse me, but what have you been smoking? Drinking, maybe? I think Illumos is a pretty lame name, nothing against the people who chose it. I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to oi, as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is supposed to be an Open project (although Open has been so misused by marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco). But all that is neither here nor there. The point is that your idea was/is lame. And that your mother probably dresses you funny... -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 23:03 -0600, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 19:58 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote: What's wrong with just illumos? If you need to distinguish, just use illumos, the kernel or illumos, OS/Net vs illumos, the distribution. The original OpenSolaris, the distribution was based on OpenSolaris, the kernel, and other distributions based on Opensolaris, the kernel did exist. One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. illumos desktop, illumos server, or illumos live usb, if needed. Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from illumos, the kernel, but it seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of OpenSolaris, the kernel for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base. Do we really need a different name for the main distribution? I personally find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm using a lot harder. I have to give a whole family tree history instead of just saying, Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11. I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. Uh... Excuse me, but what have you been smoking? Drinking, maybe? I think Illumos is a pretty lame name, nothing against the people who chose it. I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to oi, as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is supposed to be an Open project (although Open has been so misused by marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco). But all that is neither here nor there. The point is that your idea was/is lame. And that your mother probably dresses you funny... P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was intended to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] User roles and acting as root
On Tue, 2011-06-14 at 11:23 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: On 06/14/11 10:05 AM, Gabriele Bulfon wrote: Thanx for your reply, I understand the security issue. But, is it so much more secure when you can just sudo commands? Where is the difference? With sudo, you choose to only run commands that need extra privileges with those privileges - most of the commands a normal user runs don't need that, so why use it and run the risk of either operator error or buggy software doing more damage than normal? Which is useful in environments where you have jr. sysadmins, backup operators, etc., i.e. different roles, not all of which you want/trust to have full root access, so tasks can be limited to only those necessary to fulfill that role. On a boxes where I, or one or two others I know and trust, are the only admin(s), I find sudo a complete pita and never use it. When I want root it's because I need to get something done and sudo just gets in my way and adds unnecessary typing w/o any benefit - if I'm going to make a typo or brain fart so bad as to blow up the box, sudo is not going to save me. Much better to actually have a # in your prompt and adhere to the old sysadmin adage of sitting on your hands for 5 seconds before hitting enter... The point being here, that while sudo does have it's place, it's not the magic bullet some would have us believe it is. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] zfs only to version 5 after upgrading to oi-151?
On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 18:08 +0200, Bruno Damour wrote: Of course it's me, but i think it suggests it's on par with sol 11 express which is snv_151a. As oi_147/8 was based on snv_147/8 But as we of course have to get used to oi being a real fork of solaris, why not change the numbering scheme ? Bruno PS : Please, do not think I'm complaining, I'm not Iirc, OI version numbering will change with first stable release, wh/I think will be something like 1.0.x, or 1.0_RELEASE, or maybe that was RELEASE-1.0. Not 100% sure about the names. This was touched upon during #oi-meeting yesterday, the specifics of which were left for further discussion. In any case, similar to FreeBSD with RELEASE, TESTING/DEV, and EXPERIMENTAL branches. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] oracle gives openoffuce to apache
On Wed, 2011-06-01 at 15:51 -0400, Dan Swartzendruber wrote: Apostolos Syropoulos wrote: http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2011/06/oracle-gives-openoffice-to-apa.html Of course the article is terrible and myopic since it assumes that the center of the universe is Linux, which of course is the stupidest thing one can say. Unfortunately, in some ways, it is. Like it or not :( Unfortunately. For example, I'd really like to be using OI, OS, or whatever. But reality is that Linux meets my needs on the desktop workstation front _much_ better. So after much patience and testing of oi-151b I've reluctantly had to admit that I need to go with Debian until OI has come along a bit further. Server side 151 release may yet see some action though. In any case, w.r.t. oo.org going to Apache, might this be thinly veiled (and now relatively meaningless in real world since giving away oo.org is akin to nothing in light of superior libreoffice) peace offering following hostilities over other things? ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] NVIDIA driver update
On Wed, 2011-06-01 at 23:56 +0400, Andrey N. Oktyabrski wrote: On 01.06.11 23:42, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote: Is it possible to replace the nvidia driver packages 256.44 by the 270.41 (from the NVIDIA site) in the openindiana.org IPS repository? Yes and I am using 270.41.06 but you need to do something like the following to install the new driver: $ pfexec beadm list $ pfexec beadm create oi-nvidia $ pfexec beadm mount oi-nvidia /mnt $ pfexec pkg -R /mnt uninstall -r driver/graphics/nvidia $ pfexec /bin/sh NVIDIA-Solaris-x86-270.41.06.run --extract-only $ cd NVIDIA-Solaris-x86-270.41.06 $ pfexec pkgadd -R /mnt -d . NVDAgraphics NVDAgraphicsr $ pfexec bootadm update-archive -R /mnt $ pfexec beadm unmount -f oi-nvidia $ pfexec beadm activate oi-nvidia $ pfexec reboot -p Thank you, I'll try this. Anyway, pkg image-update is much more right way :-) I brought this up on oi-dev recently and was informed that nvidia drivers will be updated for 151 release. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] oracle gives openoffuce to apache
On Thu, 2011-06-02 at 10:42 +0100, Jonathan Adams wrote: Apache didn't want OpenOffice originally according to press/blogs of people in the know ... probably because Apache got bitten over the whole Java thing. There was, however, a contract with Sun to keep maintaining and improving OpenOffice, which passed to Oracle, and after all the dev team left and formed LibreOffice Oracle were left with a project that they couldn't afford to keep up to date (as is seen in the lack of development in comparison to LibreOffice ... 3.4 due out this week) The big thing will be if rather than just giving the code, and control of the code to Apache they give the name to Apache too ... this is the only bit missing from LibreOffice, and the only bit worth having from whats left of the original OpenOffice (yes the plugins on OOo are good, but most have been transferred to LibreOffice). According to the missive from LibreOffice; Apache are keen to talk to the LibreOffice team, although where those talks lead is yet to be decided, some people are wondering if Oracle are handing the name to Apache so as not to lose face by giving it to LibreOffice directly, and are wondering if that is the only reason that Apache changed it's mind to take on the project. Jon PS. I'm not affiliated, I'm just interested. Yeah, that's basically what I was getting at w/o going into details. At this juncture, I'm of the opinion that LibreOffice would be taking a step backwards if it took on the Openoffice name. Folks know that LibreOffice is the path for future. The LibreOffice name is also, imo, more enticing to me as end user - especially in this day and age of fake bake corporate open source projects. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] oracle gives openoffuce to apache
On Thu, 2011-06-02 at 04:39 -0700, Apostolos Syropoulos wrote: Unfortunately. For example, I'd really like to be using OI, OS, or whatever. But reality is that Linux meets my needs on the desktop workstation front _much_ better. So after much patience and testing of oi-151b I've reluctantly had to admit that I need to go with Debian until OI has come along a bit further. Server side 151 release may yet see some action though. Well in cases like this I suggest people to switch to Windows or MacOS. In other words, people demand too much without contributing anything. A.S. PS I think Kennedy said something similar but of course in a different context. Well, gee, guess I'd better do some self examination - I first logged into Unix shell account in 80 or 81. - Been using BSD's (Free and Open) in production since mid to late 90's. - Seasoned sysadmin, certified on HP-UX. - Over the years have provided support to a couple open source projects. - Been Microsoft free on the home front since the new millennium. - Only use MS in business contexts when forced to do so. - Kids have been using *nix since preteen years. Yep. It's official. I'm too stupid and definitely not l337 enough for OpenIndiana so I should go use Windows or MacOS and not leech off of OI. Given this state of affairs, it's probably also amoral for me to remain subscribed to these lists and waste OI.org bandwidth. Thanks for helping me work that out cuz I'm surely too challenged mentally to have worked that out on my own. Have a nice day. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 17:28 +1000, Scott O'Brien wrote: Ok, enough with the troll wars.. Who cares? It's be nice to not get spammed with a million off-stopic e-mails imo I find the discussion relevant and appropriate for the list at hand. If you don't please filter on topic and delete. Thank you. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 01:11 -0700, Gary Driggs wrote: On May 24, 2011, at 12:36 AM, LinuxBSDos.com wrote: List as many as you can and I'll still be able to prove that most of the distros using sudo are derived from Ubuntu is a statement of fact. OpenBSD ships with sudo and a root account accessible by anyone in the wheel group. Where does that fit? As do the other *BSD's. Ironically enough, Fedora 15 beta has now added the wheel group requirement and calling it an innovation. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 16:29 +0800, Allan E. Registos wrote: From: LinuxBSDos.com fi...@linuxbsdos.com How many of those distros that are not based on Ubuntu can you name? Remember that we are talking about using sudo instead of the root account system, not just having sudo installed as an application. List as many as you can and I'll still be able to prove that most of the distros using sudo are derived from Ubuntu is a statement of fact. As per *distro* I mean not derived from Ubuntu *confusion*. It is quite normal that Ubuntu derivatives like Linux Mint will not change the default security of Ubuntu, for improving the usability of Ubuntu is their common goal. And that other *distros* like Redhat derivatives and others are not using sudo the way Ubuntu does. It is not that these distros imitated Ubuntu's sudo, which is quite untrue, they did not change it. I cannot find any reason to call Ubuntu derivatives as *distros* that were using sudo the way Ubuntu does, and then post it here, for it is obvious, those derivatives did not change the default sudo implementation of Ubuntu, so what's the point? The statement of fact here is that some of us are annoyed of the most popular Linux distro at distrowatch, I don't know why, for despite of its shortcomings, it is useful in the desktop, am not using it on server. So to make OI good on the desktop is for you to start porting those popular applications in Linux rather than whining and FUD'ng against Ubuntu aside from your OI admin tasks. The presumption that something is the best based on distrowatch listing is a fallacy. Ubuntu has buzz, and it's intended as seamless as possible transition for Winblows users. Hence, lot's of said users are hearing about it and downloading for a test drive. I think OI, and indeed, all OS platform should place a higher premium on values such as reliability, robustness, security, performant, etc. rather than the number of downloads by relatively low tech users. Unless your hidden FOSS agenda is to create a revenue stream by providing support contracts to said lower tech users. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 09:21 +0100, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: Hi All, I too don't appreciate the flamewar on here of Solaris vs Linux, sudo vs pfexec. With all due respect, I think the technical signal is high enough to qualify as relevant discussion. If you don't like sudo, you don't have to use it. It's as simple as that. Unless it's forced on you a'la Ubuntu. But bringing the default in-line with other modern-day Unixes such as MacOS and most of the major Linux distributions seems entirely sane to me. People expect sudo, therefore we will give them sudo. So if you don't like the default, I suggest you investigate distro-constructor. MacOS had it's heday but that day is past. Now it's OpenIndiana's turn. Bringing things into conformance with other modern day *nices IS valid. Targeting Ubuntu as the role model simply because it's currently in vogue with relatively low tech Linux newbie type users is what I took issue with. Decisions should be founded on technical merit. Not that there wasn't some technical merit in adding an authentication component. RBAC/pfexec is in no way being deprecated and server administrators will be advised to make use of it for obvious reasons, such as auditing. But it's unreasonable to insist that users bend to fit the OS. You don't win users that way. Like it or not, Solaris is a minority fringe OS these days, and if we don't want to fade into obscurity further, decisions like this have to be made. This is the reality we are living in. Failing to accept the reality is not helpful for anyone. True. But I think it's also important to keep in mind _why_ Solaris declined to fringe status. Had Sun open sourced it 5 years sooner and actually gotten the job done in a timely manner their employees may well still be sporting @sun.com email addresses... -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 13:33 +0100, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: On 24 May 2011, at 13:10, Ken Gunderson wrote: Especially when that distro is loosing respect from those who actually have a clue or two due to continued track record of bugs that result in very unreliable platform choice for the server room. Inflammatory and arrogant comments like this are not constructive, nor are they welcome. We're trying to create a friendly, open and inclusive community here. Attacking other distributions and the users of those distributions has the opposite affect, and will drive people away. Please can people be mindful of the language they use on-list and realise that list members are ambassadors for the OS. Keep it technical, don't get personal. I don't want to get into a tit for tat with you here but my remarks were not intended to come off as arrogant. To clarify, my opinion of Ubuntu is based on technical merit as result of having used it. Until incessant bugs drove management to pony up for significantly more costly RHEL. I don't think it's appropriate for this list to get into the nitty gritty technical details. I also base my opinion on feedback from other Linux users: seasoned administrators I have had discussion with often express similar experiences/frustrations regarding Ubuntu. Those who I talk with who like it _tend_ to be lower tech and newer to Linux types. My use of those who have a clue or two to differentiate these different users was probably less than optimal, but hopefully doesn't invalidate the larger point I was trying to make - that copying Ubuntu simply because it is popular with a certain subset of users should not be considered best practice. This latter aspect was what prompted my initial comment on the subject. And yes, I've already allowed that I agree with the technical/security side of the decision on this particular issue. And to end on a positive note, I think Debian is a very nice Linux distro. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 11:06 -0400, Dave Miner wrote: On 05/24/11 08:54 AM, Gary Mills wrote: On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 06:26:33AM -0600, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 09:21 +0100, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: Hi All, I too don't appreciate the flamewar on here of Solaris vs Linux, sudo vs pfexec. With all due respect, I think the technical signal is high enough to qualify as relevant discussion. My preference would be to: 1. Make root a role 2. Retain sudo as an option 3. Find a secure way to use RBAC for system administration Not surprisingly, that's what we are trying to do, the decision that prompted this sub-thread was about moving in that direction and removing a security issue we'd created with the experimentation in OpenSolaris releases. RBAC. properly configured, is highly secure, but doesn't provide one important thing yet: authentication of the user (using his password) at the keyboard when assuming privileges. A solution to that will happen and allow us to refine what we're doing with Solaris. Dave Hi Dave: Yeah, I get technical part of it. My comments were meant to be taken in context of sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek groan to the just like Ubuntu familiarity goal, wh/upon subsequent review was made by Glenn Faden rather than yourself. Thanks for your time. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Failure while upgrading OpenIndiana
On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 12:05 -0400, Gary Gendel wrote: I tried to upgrade with the following command: pkg image-update --accept --be-name snv_151 --require-new-be but it got hung. I tried it several times with the same result: DOWNLOAD PKGS FILESXFER (MB) mail/thunderbird/plugin/thunderbir... 206/878 2422/15133 112.6/483.4 Errors were encountered while attempting to retrieve package or file data for the requested operation. Details follow: 1: Framework error: code: 28 reason: Operation too slow. Less than 1024 bytes/sec transfered the last 30 seconds URL: 'http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il/file/1/30587f092830594caedb71f6cf028119d705da45'. 2: Framework error: code: 56 URL: 'http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il/file/1/30587f092830594caedb71f6cf028119d705da45'. (happened 3 times) Gary Apparently oi's pkg repo is overloaded, as I'm trying same now and downloadling at circa mid 90's 14k modem speeds Yet as I just checked again it's at more reasonable 163 kBps, interspersed with dips down into the 30's and 40's. In any event, I have confirmation from Andrzej that Gnome's update gui is broke and I'll let you know how things go from command line mode. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Failure while upgrading OpenIndiana
On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 12:05 -0400, Gary Gendel wrote: I tried to upgrade with the following command: pkg image-update --accept --be-name snv_151 --require-new-be but it got hung. I tried it several times with the same result: DOWNLOAD PKGS FILESXFER (MB) mail/thunderbird/plugin/thunderbir... 206/878 2422/15133 112.6/483.4 Errors were encountered while attempting to retrieve package or file data for the requested operation. Details follow: 1: Framework error: code: 28 reason: Operation too slow. Less than 1024 bytes/sec transfered the last 30 seconds URL: 'http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il/file/1/30587f092830594caedb71f6cf028119d705da45'. 2: Framework error: code: 56 URL: 'http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il/file/1/30587f092830594caedb71f6cf028119d705da45'. (happened 3 times) Fwiw, my update using essentially same command line completed successfully. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 00:22 +0600, Dmitry G. Kozhinov wrote: I think Debian is a very nice Linux distro. Many OpenSolaris/OI users share this feeling - this is because OpenSolaris has (kind of) inherited it's look and feel from Debian - thanks to Ian Murdock. My personal favorite in Debian is System - Administration - Services. Nice and simple. My Debian usage far predates that - I think I still have 1.0 CD's around here somewhere That said, there's reasons I got away from Linux. If our objective is to simply emulate Linux, and I know/hope that it is not, then I have many mature Linux distros to choose from w/o having to endure the growing pains of OI. OI's attraction is that it has the potential to be far, far more than just another Linux. Incorporating features from various Linux distros based on sound technical merit is just dandy. Emulating e.g. Ubuntu primarily for the sake of lowering the bar to entry, however, would not lead to a success, merely just another also ran Linux distro. Part of my reaction to this is that I've sat in on meetings where decision makers did precisely this, to the point of going against sound technical analysis, so mayhaps I'm a bit sensitive when I read comments which may be even remotely construed as such. Peace-- ken -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 15:39 -0400, Alex Smith (K4RNT) wrote: Another related question - why have we stopped using pfexec and started using sudo? I preferred RBAC... Have we? I've been testing 148b and just assumed it was a defect. If not, I concur with you that RBAC is preferrable to sudo. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 23:29 +0200, Jeppe Toustrup wrote:
2011/5/23 Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net:
On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 15:39 -0400, Alex Smith (K4RNT) wrote:
Another related question - why have we stopped using pfexec and
started using sudo? I preferred RBAC...
Have we? I've been testing 148b and just assumed it was a defect. If
not, I concur with you that RBAC is preferrable to sudo.
The change was made upstream. See this bug report which discusses the change:
https://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=4885
And here I used to think Dave was a smart guy let's bork Solaris's
superior RBAC model so we can make it more like one of the lamest (at
least w.r.t. seasoned users) Linux distros out there. Damn fine
analysis there;-{
--
Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 17:03 -0700, Bill Sommerfeld wrote:
On 05/23/11 16:54, Ken Gunderson wrote:
On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 23:29 +0200, Jeppe Toustrup wrote:
The change was made upstream. See this bug report which discusses the
change:
https://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=4885
And here I used to think Dave was a smart guy let's bork Solaris's
superior RBAC model so we can make it more like one of the lamest (at
least w.r.t. seasoned users) Linux distros out there. Damn fine
analysis there;-{
The way RBAC was configured by the opensolaris installer was flagrantly
insecure (automatically granting any process running with the uid of the
initial user account the ability to exec arbitrary commands as uid 0
with all privileges)
The upstream change closes a serious security hole.
- Bill
Yeah, I read the thread, and that aspect I do agree with. The part that
irked me was the this makes things more familiar for Ubuntu Linux users
(ir)rationale.
--
Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 10:09 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote: On Tuesday, May 24, 2011 09:51 AM, Richard L. Hamilton wrote: On May 23, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Christopher Chan wrote: On Tuesday, May 24, 2011 08:51 AM, Gary wrote: I must have missed that part of the thread but sudo predates Linux by at least ten years; http://www.gratisoft.us/sudo/history.html It's the same old Solaris admin versus Linux admin thingy. Any shortcomings/non-existing feature in Solaris are ignored/brushed off and anything remotely 'Linux' related gets put on the grill immediately. I can understand wanting to keep the same interfaces but making rabid attacks on stuff that are additional just because they are the current Linux practice is really irrational. Hence stuff like sudo is a Linux thing... Nothing wrong with sudo, or even with having both RBAC and sudo. Something wrong with changing Solaris to look more like Linux when there's no good reason except familiarity for Linux users, since it _breaks_ familiarity for Solaris users. I don't think it's unreasonable that might upset people, although this case is not a great example of one worth picking a fight over, IMO. Even for me. When I installed OI_147, I had to go and add that Primary administrator role (what's that about secure installations?) so that I can use pfexec. But sheesh, going rabid to the point to treating sudo as a GNU / Linux thing? OTOH, either finding a better way to use RBAC for this particular purpose, or using sudo instead, is probably an improvement on how RBAC was previously being used for this. Using sudo to switch to 'administrative' mode is something that I don't really like. It's an Ubuntu thing. sudo is for scripts and for giving limited access to certain stuff to certain accounts. If I had to become root, I prefer doing 'su -'. So please, drop the 'sudo is a Linux thing'. It is not. It is specific to only one particularly popular Linux distro aimed at users and not admins. For the record. Perchance did you read the thread referenced?? https://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=4885 -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 01:21 +, Ben Taylor wrote: On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 1:10 AM, Christopher Chan christopher.c...@bradbury.edu.hk wrote: On Tuesday, May 24, 2011 08:51 AM, Gary wrote: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: Yeah, I read the thread, and that aspect I do agree with. The part that irked me was the this makes things more familiar for Ubuntu Linux users (ir)rationale. I must have missed that part of the thread but sudo predates Linux by at least ten years; http://www.gratisoft.us/sudo/history.html It's the same old Solaris admin versus Linux admin thingy. Any shortcomings/non-existing feature in Solaris are ignored/brushed off and anything remotely 'Linux' related gets put on the grill immediately. I can understand wanting to keep the same interfaces but making rabid attacks on stuff that are additional just because they are the current Linux practice is really irrational. Hence stuff like sudo is a Linux thing... path of least resistance. the do it for me attitude, instead of do it for myself. Are studio compilers free? Yep. Do many people use them? Nope, because they are different from gcc, and things gcc/g++ let you get away break with the studio compilers because those were written to standards, not the whim of a developer. And fixing said source might mean I have to spend a little more time making it Solaris ready, and then I might have to fight with the upstream maintainers, oh my. I'm not shocked. In the least. Interesting that you should bring this up because OI is going precisely this direction. See today's Transitioning from Sun Studio to gcc clang/llvm thread on oi-dev list. http://openindiana.org/pipermail/oi-dev/2011-May/000406.html -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Wed, 2011-05-18 at 17:05 +0100, Jonathan Adams wrote: pkg set-publisher -P -O http://pkg.openindiana.org/dev-il/ openindiana.org Well I'll be damned. I missed the -P flag, wh/is apparently essential, as that command worked. I don't quite understand why setting as preferred would make a difference though since this was a fresh oi 148b install rather than OpenSolaris upgrade. In any event, thanks for your assistance. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 21:00 +, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: Hi Dan, Work has been underway for quite some time on our next build, and the release is imminent. It is taking longer than anticipated though. Building a brand new community around a codebase as large as OpenSolaris is no easy task, and we're having to work with what Sun/Oracle provided, which is geared around their internal processes. Stay tuned! Alasdair Imminent meaning hours, days, weeks ... months...?? Could you provide a bit more detail? Also, it would be most excellent if your mua would wrap lines at an appropriate length. Thanks bunches :) -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 21:38 +, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: Hi Ken, This month, unless some major showstopper crops up. Regarding my MUA, I'm out and about and sending from my blackberry - no options available to me re line length. Sorry! Cheers, Alasdair Ah! Thanks bunches. I was just installing 148b on a test box and if it was matter of couple days I'd just waited. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 21:38 +, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: Hi Ken, This month, unless some major showstopper crops up. P.S. - any info w.r.t. repository package updates, e.g. LibreOffice, PostgreSQL, etc. Will such coincide with release or come later? -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Update info?
On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 16:40 -0700, ken mays wrote: Hi Ken, Ref: http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/oi_151 OI Release Engineering stated that construction of the consolidation images were underway so expectation is within the upcoming week (or two). Mainly said, TBA - but it was recently reported that there were no major showstoppers as of today. Let them spin their magic wands in the meanwhile! As of the other packages, there are some packages targeted after release and some available now. Check with the individual OI maintainers on that. Best thing is check oi_148(b)/IPS on any issues and ensure any issues get reported (and mentioned on oi-dev as well). ~ Ken Mays That is great news. Boy, it's been a long time coming and it will be good for the project to have an actual release. Spent a few hours putzing around with 148b today and it seems good. Other than I still have to run update_drv to get it to see my Quadro 600. With all the work necessary to get base OS ready for release post Oracle take over my expectations w.r.t. package updates were none too high. Still, this is one thing that will make or break OI with folks prompted to take OI for a test drive post release announcement so I thought there might have been some efforts going on behind the scenes in this regard. For example, and I know it's out of the realm of reality, it would be a big deal pr wise if the release shipped with Gnome 3, because, sadly, bleeding edge package availability is the yardstick w/wh/many judge. Thanks for the update. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] sound juicer doesn't propose mp3 as output?
On Mon, 2011-05-09 at 09:32 +0200, solarg wrote: hello all, i have oi_148. I want to extract my own personal cds on mp3 player, but sound juicer doesn't propose this format. However, mp3 exists in Preferences-Profiles, with this Gstreamer pipeline: audio/x-raw-int,rate=44100,channels=2 ! lame name=enc mode=0 vbr-quality=6 ! id3v2mux but i'm unable to select it. Is there something missing? Yes, the lame encoder package, wh/is not available in openindiana repositories due to license and patent issues. Options include 1) switching to less patent encumbered such as ogg/vobis, 2) hunt down the lame source bits and compile yourself, 3) there used to be a couple unofficial repositories located in countries with less anal patent laws that provided various patent encumbered multimedia related packages, but that was back in OpenSolaris days and I'm not sure if they're presently extant, and 4) switch to different platform, e.g. Slackware/Salix that is less concerned about being sued and bold enough to provides prebuilt packages. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] sound juicer doesn't propose mp3 as output?
On Mon, 2011-05-09 at 11:53 +0100, Chris Ridd wrote: On 9 May 2011, at 09:43, Ken Gunderson wrote: Yes, the lame encoder package, wh/is not available in openindiana repositories due to license and patent issues. Options include 1) switching to less patent encumbered such as ogg/vobis, 2) hunt down the lame source bits and compile yourself, 3) there used to be a couple unofficial repositories located in countries with less anal patent laws That would include the master (UK-based!) OpenIndiana repository, wouldn't it? I'm unsure of UK laws in this regard, but would be interested if someone more knowledgeable would provide clarification. I pretty much use Flac and ogg/vorbis myself but it would be nice to have mp3 encoder, video codes, etc. available. I think the free Fluendo mp3 codecs actually sound a bit better than the gstreamer defaults commonly available and they also have for fee video codecs but I think their stuff is limited to decoding. P.S.; Thank you for not top posting :) Seems to be an ever increasing nasty habit these days. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] rsync snapshot backups?
On Fri, 2011-04-29 at 14:40 -0400, Dan Swartzendruber wrote: Here's a question for y'all. I have two linux servers I want to back up to my OI NAS/SAN. What I've been playing with is a simple script that runs on the OI box, and does an ssh to each of the linux servers, with the command being an rsync back to the OI box. rsyncd on OI is setup to allow connection from each specific IP for the filesystem in question. Each stanza in the rsyncd.conf file has a post command hook that takes a snapshot with the datetime on the end. I've been googling for how others do this, and have found a number of competing solutions, none of which seem to do all of what I want. Frex: snapadm.pl, which creates rolling backups on daily/weekly/monthly basis with retention times - so far so good, but it doesn't actually do any backing up. I also found rsbackup (based on freebsd?) which does the backing up, including snapshotting, but doesn't seem to have any kind of snapshot expiration. etc etc etc... I was even thinking of switching from text-mode OI to the GUI so I can install time slider - that would work if there was some kind of script I could tell it to run before doing the snapshot (and said script would run the rsyncs). At this point, I feel like I'm standing out in the field trying to figure out which way to go :) Any thoughts? Thanks! Baccula would perhaps be overkill, but get you what you're after in terms of expirations, pre post scripts, etc. A bit more complex to set up for small onsie and twosie networks but then again once done it's pretty much autopilot from there on out. Amaanda could do similar but last time I evaluated open source enterprise backup solutions Baccula was the clear winner for my needs. Amanda has since seen some developer love so would be worth taking a fresh look. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Nvidia GT430
On Tue, 2011-04-12 at 22:30 -0400, Jeff Goldrich wrote: This graphics card is 'verified' to work on OI 148 but exactly how remains a mystery to me. My GTX 460 installs fine however my Galaxy GT 430 is not recognized. If I click on Nvidia x server settings and do a nvidia-xconfig and save the config file, I end up in text mode upon reboot. If I try to fool the system and do a fresh install with the GTX 460 and then swap it out... I get a blank white screen after password. I have tried to install many times with the same result.. What am I missing? Not enough information to draw any conclusions but perhaps related to issues I was having with my Quadro 600. In the end I did get it working. Search archives a couple months back for thread entitled something like Quadro 600 - No Joy, followed up by a problem solved subject. Sorry, I don't have more time at present to get into the details, but hopefully the thread proves productive. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] Pancakes vs. Waffles
Hello List: Waffles rule. Pancakes really, really suck. So do people who like pancakes. Pancakes get really soggy, especially after you pour on the syrup. The world would be much better off without pancakes. Unless they're sourdough and grilled just right. Or you're camping. But then they still take too long to cook and use up a lot of stove fuel. So really, the smarter solution is to just drive to town and get waffles for breakfast. Waffles are far superior in that the nook and crannies created by the waffle pattern result in greater surface to volume ratio. Combine this with being cooked in a waffle iron and you get a more crisp exterior that offers a far superior surface for containing maple syrup. Not to mention a much more interesting mouth feel. Speaking of syrup, real maple syrup is the best. Fake syrup really, really sucks. So do people who manufacture, market, and buy it. I mean, it's totally unhealthy with all that high fructose corn syrup. Not to mention all the oil energy required to grow it. If not for all the govt. subsidies, the cost of production would far exceed any economically viable use of corn for things like high fructose corn syrup, ethanol to add to gasoline, etc. Indeed, the US Government has become totally corrupted by BIG Corn. It's all part of the big agriculture, big corn conspiracy to rule the US, if not the entire world. We are therefore socially obligated to boycott corn. People who eat corn are fascists. Unless it's corn you grew in your garden. I like green beans much better anyhow. And sweet peas. Speaking of fructose, 5 carbon sugars suck. People who like 5 carbon sugars also really suck. 6 carbon glucose is much more elegant. The tyranny of symmetry is a good thing. Embrace it. Warm regards-- Ken -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Linux vs. Solaris
On Wed, 2011-03-30 at 11:42 +0800, Allan E. Registos wrote: On Wednesday, 30 March, 2011 10:22 AM, Ken Gunderson wrote: Who ever said anything about K/Ubuntu, mon? Imho, Ubuntu is for lamers who're not quite bright enough to use a real operating system Let us hope that Unity won't get any OI support anytime soon, and most Linux users were lame and were unable to use a real operating system, as per your IMHO, and so ISVs supporting Ubuntu/Red Hat before everything else. Let us learn to live and work with each other and stop *bashing,* and stop that elitist's mentality. Linux is here to stay, and so BSD, Windows Solaris derivatives, for it is so inconvenient to read things from BSD/Solaris folks often bashing Linux. Yeah, you have ZFS now what? Application support please. Kind regards, Allan Ubuntu != Linux. Sadly, as some earlier replies might suggest, for many it seems to. Hence my tongue in cheek comments. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Linux vs. Solaris
On Wed, 2011-03-30 at 07:51 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote: On Wednesday, March 30, 2011 04:15 AM, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: The Solaris OS was carefully designed as a product, Linux is a combination of technollogies carefully developed to interact with eachother but created in independent projects. Both of them a very well made, but the way how all the parts within Solaris relate to eachother is more consistent. Solaris and linux are like 2 different languages, both ritch on their own way, why shoulnt we write phylosopy in German? Er...certainly the core is a carefully designed product but I would not go so far as to claim the whole of Solaris is a carefully designed product. Anyway, when will KDE be brought on board instead of that directionless excuse for a desktop environment called GNOME? Ha! Why anyone would want, or indeed, could even use that bug ridden pos they call kde these days is beyond me fyi- I was a kde1, 2, and to some extent kde3 user before I gave up and switched to Xfce4. Changing platform to OS made Gnome one of the pills I had to swallow. And a jagged little pill it was, as I formerly detested it. After some time using it, however, I began to appreciate Gnome. I test drive the latest and not so greatest KDE4 from time to time on Linux boxes and am amazed at just how badly they missed it The point being, to each their own. Gnome works on Solaris. And pretty much works on OI. Better places to invest limited developer engergies and talent than incorporating KDE, imho. You got a really, really bad itch?? -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Linux vs. Solaris
On Wed, 2011-03-30 at 09:03 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote: On Wednesday, March 30, 2011 08:00 AM, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Wed, 2011-03-30 at 07:51 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote: On Wednesday, March 30, 2011 04:15 AM, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote: The Solaris OS was carefully designed as a product, Linux is a combination of technollogies carefully developed to interact with eachother but created in independent projects. Both of them a very well made, but the way how all the parts within Solaris relate to eachother is more consistent. Solaris and linux are like 2 different languages, both ritch on their own way, why shoulnt we write phylosopy in German? Er...certainly the core is a carefully designed product but I would not go so far as to claim the whole of Solaris is a carefully designed product. Anyway, when will KDE be brought on board instead of that directionless excuse for a desktop environment called GNOME? Ha! Why anyone would want, or indeed, could even use that bug ridden pos they call kde these days is beyond me fyi- I was a kde1, 2, and to some extent kde3 user before I gave up and switched to Xfce4. Changing platform to OS made Gnome one of the pills I had to swallow. And a jagged little pill it was, as I formerly detested it. After some time using it, however, I began to appreciate Gnome. I test drive the latest and not so greatest KDE4 from time to time on Linux boxes and am amazed at just how badly they missed it Yes, Kubuntu is a complete disaster. Not the KDE team's fault though I don't think. The Kubuntu devs botched it real bad. On another note, I have heard that users of KDE on OpenSolaris are happy with it? Who ever said anything about K/Ubuntu, mon? Imho, Ubuntu is for lamers who're not quite bright enough to use a real operating system I stopped using OpenSolaris as a desktop after I have had enough of GNOME... My experience is opposite - the more I use Gnome, the greater my appreciation. Every once in a while I go retro and take Xfce or LXDE for a spin, or even more retro and roll by own on top of OpenBOX. While each has it's pros and cons, I keep coming back to Gnome because it just works and I've better things to do with my time than tweak my workstation desktop ad nauseum. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Solaris Express server name broadcast
On Sun, 2011-03-06 at 09:58 -0500, weknox wrote: Two points I believe are germane: 1. This is a tempest in a teapot. Get outside and plant some flowers. It's Spring, or at least nearly so. 2. WTF? There is no moral obligation to help? There is *always* a moral obligation to help someone in distress - or one who simply needs help - in a caring community. If someone is reading and writing on this list then they obviously belong to us, at least at this point in time. Give them a hand. Granted, there may be some point in time when the users are too numerous here that posts may need to be edited but I don't think that's today - otherwise we wouldn't all be stirring this little teapot so vigorously. Don't allow your irritation at Oracle (or Sun) from interfering with our new community. Talk about a tempest in a teapot - and then go on to extend my comment about moral imperative to act as a support channel for commercial product to turning a blind eye to someone in distress. Get some perspective here. The OP asked a question, to which they did not receive an adequate answer. Two posters made a couple gruff remarks about this not being the most appropriate forum for the query at hand, for which they apologized. Later posters then edited my post to omit my actual text and also took what I did say out of context in an apparently thinly guised effort to rebuke my supposed villany and make mountains out of mole hills. So I'll set the record straight and then be done with this drama. I did not say anything about not being helpful. Pointing someone to the most appropriate forum/repository of requisite expertise is being helpful, even if worded a bit caustically or grumpily. Politely pointing - my actual verbiage - people thusly is being both helpful and friendly. And, it may well be argued, more effective, especially when the quick answer was not to be had here. Peace-- ken -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Quadro 600 No Joy - Solved
On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 10:59 -0500, Gary Gendel wrote: Jon, This particular v20z refuses to update to the latest firmware, but bge works properly for OpenSolaris up to and including 134b so it looks to be a change to the bge driver found in Oi 147 or 148. There is another issue where apcupsd wouldn't run because of some change in libusb as well. Recompling from source wouldn't fix that problem either. Unfortunately, this is my home router, file, web, mail, et. al. server so I can't do extended experimentation and debugging. That a second person saw a CPU issue with the bge driver makes me (want) to believe something changed in the driver source to cause this. Just to add to the data point, this exact same system (sans the Qudaro) worked for many months with bge as primary NIC under various iterations of Nevada and OpenSolaris. So I would concur with Gary that the fault is something introduced post 134b, but remedied in Illumos based 148a. The 2865 also has onboard nge, and that works fine, wh/I makes ruling out something else in the stack a pretty safe bet. I've been up to my ears with other things, but am curious if anyone has checked Illumos bug tracker? Best regards-- Ken -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Quadro 600 No Joy - Solved
Well, I guess I have this solved. Sort of?? I can now startx with the nvidia drivers loaded but one of my cores stays pegged at 80%. At least on oi-dev148. Still need to test this fix on 148a. I did some searching on the gfx_private error. Got lots of hits. One of which was this OpenSolaris bug report: https://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=9525 This clued me into running scanpci, whereupon I noted, similarly to the bug reports i915 device driver is bound twice problem, my Quadro is also bound twice: pci bus 0x0005 cardnum 0x00 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0df8 nVidia Corporation Device unknown CardVendor 0x10de card 0x0835 (nVidia Corporation, Card unknown) STATUS0x0010 COMMAND 0x0047 CLASS 0x03 0x00 0x00 REVISION 0xa1 BIST 0x00 HEADER 0x80 LATENCY 0x00 CACHE 0x08 BASE0 0xfa00 SIZE 16777216 MEM BASE1 0xc800 SIZE 134217728 MEM PREFETCHABLE BASE3 0xd600 SIZE 33554432 MEM PREFETCHABLE BASE5 0x6c00 SIZE 128 I/O BASEROM 0x addr 0x MAX_LAT 0x00 MIN_GNT 0x00 INT_PIN 0x01 INT_LINE 0x0b pci bus 0x0005 cardnum 0x00 function 0x01: vendor 0x10de device 0x0bea nVidia Corporation Device unknown CardVendor 0x10de card 0x0835 (nVidia Corporation, Card unknown) STATUS0x0010 COMMAND 0x0046 CLASS 0x04 0x03 0x00 REVISION 0xa1 BIST 0x00 HEADER 0x80 LATENCY 0x00 CACHE 0x08 BASE0 0xfbffc000 SIZE 16384 MEM BASEROM 0x addr 0x MAX_LAT 0x00 MIN_GNT 0x00 INT_PIN 0x02 INT_LINE 0x05 I tired running update_drv, but didn't have the correct incantation. It was suggested that my Quadro was not being detected by Xorg. Yeah, that much I'd groked. But why not? nVidia has subsequently released newer drivers than those shipped with OI, so I was getting ready to give them a try, when I spied following in the README: The X server does not start and shows the error Cannot open /dev/fb (No such file or directory) Your graphics card may be newer than the NVIDIA Accelerated Solaris Graphics Driver Set, meaning that its PCI device ID may not have been included in the installation scripts and therefore not added to the file /etc/driver_aliases. To manually register the graphics card, proceed as follows: * Determine the PCI device ID of your graphics card with the command # /usr/X11/bin/scanpci For example a Quadro FX500 appears as: pci bus 0x0009 cardnum 0x00 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x032b nVidia Corporation NV34GL [Quadro FX 500/600 PCI] The PCI vendor ID is '10de', the PCI device ID is '32b'. * Become root and register the PCI device ID with the command # update_drv -a -i 'pci10de,' nvidia is the PCI device ID returned by the scanpci command. Drop any leading zeroes. Note that pci10de, is nested between a set of single-quote/double-quote double-quote/single-quote. For example: # update_drv -a -i 'pci10de,32b' nvidia * Reboot with the command # reboot -- -r Full text here: http://us.download.nvidia.com/solaris/260.19.36/README/commonproblems.html This was just too familiar to the OpenSolaris bug report not to catch my eye, so this time around I dropped the -v flag from scanpci. Relevant output here: pci bus 0x0005 cardnum 0x00 function 0x00: vendor 0x10de device 0x0df8 nVidia Corporation Device unknown pci bus 0x0005 cardnum 0x00 function 0x01: vendor 0x10de device 0x0bea nVidia Corporation Device unknown Followed by; #update_drv -a -i 'pci10de,df8' I'd previously been unfamiliar with the -- -r flag, and after reading man reboot and man boot am still unclear as to just what this does, but whatever, it seems to have done the trick, as I was presented with gdm login welcome screen and Xorg.0.log reports that my Quadro is now being deteched: (II) Feb 28 04:18:59 NVIDIA(0): NVIDIA GPU Quadro 600 (GF108GL) at PCI:5:0:0 (GPU-0) (--) Feb 28 04:18:59 NVIDIA(0): Memory: 1048576 kBytes (--) Feb 28 04:18:59 NVIDIA(0): VideoBIOS: 70.08.27.00.02 (II) Feb 28 04:18:59 NVIDIA(0): Detected PCI Express Link width: 16X (--) Feb 28 04:18:59 NVIDIA(0): Interlaced video modes are supported on this GPU Yeah! :) But one of my cores is pegged whilst just idling. Boo Hiss!! :( Hmmm... just booted with the vesa drivers and core is still pegged. Maybe not an nVidia driver issue. I'll follow up once I get a chance to test this with 148a. Perhaps this was obvious to Solaris guru's but I'm not and offer the above in the hope it saves someone else some time running down similar issue in the future. Regards-- Ken On Sat, 2011-02-26 at 23:45 -0700, Ken Gunderson wrote: Greetings All: I explored this a bit more. Got rid of the glx complaints by bumping /usr/X11 to top listing
[OpenIndiana-discuss] quadro 600 on oi-dev-148a - no joy :(
Hello All You Happy People:) Well, I finally tracked down a #00 Phillips screw driver so I could swap out the factory low profile mount for a standard height on my new Quadro 600. Unfortunately, oi loads only with vesa driver. Boo Hiss!! Booting to console and forcing nvidia drivers in xorg.conf pukes up glx initialization failures. I uninstalled and reinstalled the nvidia drivers, glx extensions, etc., but results were the same with both simple xorg.conf specifying nvidia driver and Xorg -configure generated xorg.conf. See attached log and xorg.conf's. nvidia's website and marketing stuff conveniently omits anything about supported cpu's, but the actual packaging stipulates processor requirements: *Intel Core i5, i7 or Xeon processor or later * AMD Phenom or Opteron class processor or later The system is Tyan S2865 based, sporting any Opteron 180, 4GB ECC, fwiw. Ideas? Thanks in advance. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net Section Device Identifier Card0 Driver nvidia EndSection Section ServerLayout Identifier X.org Configured Screen 0 Screen0 0 0 InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer InputDeviceKeyboard0 CoreKeyboard EndSection Section Files ModulePath /usr/lib/xorg/modules/amd64 ModulePath /usr/X11/lib/modules/ FontPath catalogue:/etc/X11/fontpath.d EndSection Section Module Load dri2 Load dri Load ia Load dbe Load extmod Load glx EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Keyboard0 Driver kbd EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Mouse0 Driver mouse Option Protocol auto Option Device /dev/mouse Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7 EndSection Section Monitor Identifier Monitor0 EndSection Section Device Identifier Card0 Driver nvidia VendorName ATI Technologies Inc BoardName Rage XL BusID PCI:5:0:0 EndSection Section Screen Identifier Screen0 Device Card0 MonitorMonitor0 SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 1 EndSubSection SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 4 EndSubSection SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 8 EndSubSection SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 15 EndSubSection SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 16 EndSubSection SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] quadro 600 on oi-dev-148a - no joy :(
Apparently Mailman trimmed xorg.log. Sending again, sans the xorg.conf's. Hello All You Happy People:) Well, I finally tracked down a #00 Phillips screw driver so I could swap out the factory low profile mount for a standard height on my new Quadro 600. Unfortunately, oi loads only with vesa driver. Boo Hiss!! Booting to console and forcing nvidia drivers in xorg.conf pukes up glx initialization failures. I uninstalled and reinstalled the nvidia drivers, glx extensions, etc., but results were the same with both simple xorg.conf specifying nvidia driver and Xorg -configure generated xorg.conf. See attached log and xorg.conf's. nvidia's website and marketing stuff conveniently omits anything about supported cpu's, but the actual packaging stipulates processor requirements: *Intel Core i5, i7 or Xeon processor or later * AMD Phenom or Opteron class processor or later The system is Tyan S2865 based, sporting any Opteron 180, 4GB ECC, fwiw. Ideas? Thanks in advance. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] quadro 600 on oi-dev-148a - no joy - Xoeg.log output
: X.Org ANSI C Emulation, version 0.4 (II) Loading sub module wfb (II) LoadModule: wfb (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/amd64/libwfb.so (II) Module wfb: vendor=X.Org Foundation compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org ANSI C Emulation, version 0.4 (II) Loading sub module ramdac (II) LoadModule: ramdac (II) Module ramdac already built-in (WW) VGA arbiter: cannot open kernel arbiter, no multi-card support (II) NVIDIA(0): Creating default Display subsection in Screen section Default Screen Section for depth/fbbpp 24/32 (==) NVIDIA(0): Depth 24, (==) framebuffer bpp 32 (==) NVIDIA(0): RGB weight 888 (==) NVIDIA(0): Default visual is TrueColor (==) NVIDIA(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) (**) Feb 26 18:02:42 NVIDIA(0): Enabling RENDER acceleration (EE) Feb 26 18:02:42 NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the GLX module; please check in your X (EE) Feb 26 18:02:42 NVIDIA(0): log file that the GLX module has been loaded in your X (EE) Feb 26 18:02:42 NVIDIA(0): server, and that the module is the NVIDIA GLX module. If (EE) Feb 26 18:02:42 NVIDIA(0): you continue to encounter problems, Please try (EE) Feb 26 18:02:42 NVIDIA(0): reinstalling the NVIDIA driver. (EE) Feb 26 18:02:45 NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA graphics device! (II) UnloadModule: nvidia (II) UnloadModule: wfb (II) UnloadModule: fb (EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration. Fatal server error: no screens found Please consult the OpenIndiana, based on X.Org Foundation OpenSolaris sources support at http://openindiana.org/consolidation/xnv for help. Please also check the log file at /var/log/Xorg.0.log for additional information. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Explain the Goal of oi
On Sat, 2011-02-26 at 19:35 -0600, Harry Putnam wrote: I'm getting a little confused about what OI is trying to do exactly. I changed to oi with Opensolaris looked untenable due to oracle maneuvers, expecting to see a basic continuation of what was happing from b 101 up to 134. I've been seeing little snippets of subjects and the like that seem to indicate that oi is merging with Illumini (no sure what that is called by full name). If that is the case what, in general, will that mean? I noticed my subscription to illuminos-discuss has produced 6 msgs since the end of Jan. So can someone fill me in, just in general, what the plan is over the next yr or so? OpenSolaris, despite it's name, to the contrary still contained non free bits that Sun _still_ hadn't gotten around to replacing when Oracle took over and nuked OpenSolaris. Illumos is more akin to the Linux kernel - an open core around which distributions may be constructed. OI aims to be one such distribution but hasn't quite gotten there yet because Illumos hasn't quite gotten there yet... But they're getting closer. Hence the discussion. Recently a developer spun an IllumsOS based OpenIndiana Live Cd, dubbed oi-dev-148a. Sans the as it's still Sun ON based . Clear as mud? -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] Quadro 600 No Joy - Updated
) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/amd64/libia.so (II) Module IANAME: vendor=X.Org Foundation compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 2.0 (II) Loading extension SolarisIA (II) LoadModule: xtsol (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/amd64/libxtsol.so (II) Module xtsol: vendor=X.Org Foundation compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: X.Org Server Extension ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 2.0 (II) Loading extension SUN_TSOL (II) LoadModule: nvidia (II) Loading /usr/X11/lib/modules/drivers/amd64/nvidia_drv.so (II) Module nvidia: vendor=NVIDIA Corporation compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: X.Org Video Driver (II) NVIDIA dlloader X Driver 256.44 Thu Jul 29 02:06:07 PDT 2010 (II) NVIDIA Unified Driver for all Supported NVIDIA GPUs (II) Primary Device is: PCI 05@00:00:0 (II) Loading sub module fb (II) LoadModule: fb (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/amd64/libfb.so (II) Module fb: vendor=X.Org Foundation compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org ANSI C Emulation, version 0.4 (II) Loading sub module wfb (II) LoadModule: wfb (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/amd64/libwfb.so (II) Module wfb: vendor=X.Org Foundation compiled for 1.7.7, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: X.Org ANSI C Emulation, version 0.4 (II) Loading sub module ramdac (II) LoadModule: ramdac (II) Module ramdac already built-in (WW) VGA arbiter: cannot open kernel arbiter, no multi-card support (II) NVIDIA(0): Creating default Display subsection in Screen section Default Screen Section for depth/fbbpp 24/32 (==) NVIDIA(0): Depth 24, (==) framebuffer bpp 32 (==) NVIDIA(0): RGB weight 888 (==) NVIDIA(0): Default visual is TrueColor (==) NVIDIA(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) (**) Feb 27 06:31:57 NVIDIA(0): Enabling RENDER acceleration (II) Feb 27 06:31:57 NVIDIA(0): Support for GLX with the Damage and Composite X extensions is (II) Feb 27 06:31:57 NVIDIA(0): enabled. (EE) Feb 27 06:32:01 NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA graphics device! (II) UnloadModule: nvidia (II) UnloadModule: wfb (II) UnloadModule: fb (EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration. Fatal server error: no screens found Please consult the OpenIndiana, based on X.Org Foundation OpenSolaris sources support at http://openindiana.org/consolidation/xnv for help. Please also check the log file at /var/log/Xorg.0.log for additional information. TIA-- Ken -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] OI_148a = 2/23/2011
I note there was some discussion on oi-dev about pressing this to DVD for SCALE. There was also a plan for text installer stable release for server target sometime in Feb. Given that integration of illumos kernel seems to be getting favorable reports, is this still the plan or will the release now be illumos based? -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Multifunction colour laser printer, for OSOL, OI ?
On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 13:13 -0800, ken mays wrote: Guy, Check out the Brother MFC-9560CDW. Not familiar with this particular model but can attest that Brother in general provides excellent bang for the buck. Just stay away from refurbished. Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Multifunction colour laser printer for OSOL, OI ?
On Tue, 2011-02-15 at 09:24 +, Guy Woolley wrote: Hello all, Does anyone have positive experience of a currently available (not legacy) Multifunction colour laser printer (duplex printing,copy, scan, fax) running under recent OpenSolaris or OpenIndiana ? I have located 2 possible models: Samsung CLX-6220FX No experience here. Manufacturer mentions a Unified driver for Linux Brother DCP-9055CDN Experience with a few Brother models. Presently an MFC-8860DN and HL-1650N. A few others at various client sites that I forget the model numbers off the top of my head. In my experience the key, at least w.r.t. the printing side is to get a Postscript printer. HP invented their competing printer control language because they didn't want to have to pay Adobe royalties where more of the processing is done client side and requires client side drivers. With Postscript printers most (all?) processing is done by the printer engine. Hence, as long as you have a postscript printer definition file (ppd) you're good to go. Otherwise you end up with reverse engineered foomatic and may end up with a lag between release and CUPS support. manufacturer mentions CUPS driver download. Now that CUPS is become defacto *nix standard, it's good to see some manufacturers supporting it out of the gate. But I'd still opt for a Postscript, or Brother's functionally equivalent BR Script printer - they'll run forever w/o any need for driver updates. AFAIK, CUPS is not going to get your scanner or fax working though. For scanner you need SANE and I've minimal experience there. I think HPLIP gives SANE an interface to HP scanners but haven't a clue as to which models are currently supported. Any other suggestions v. welcome - or even report that the above do NOT work, or that there is no such thing would be very useful. Were I you, I'd also be looking at Lexmark. I've tried openprinting.org but didn't get anywhere. Thanks Guy ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] GPU HCL - nVidia Questions Advice
On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 16:48 -0800, Edward Martinez wrote: Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:41:29 + From: guy.wool...@btinternet.com To: openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] GPU HCL - nVidia Questions Advice You just need to look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf and change vesa to nv - that should do it. My Xorg.conf file reads simply. [snip] Section ServerLayout Identifier X.org Configured Screen 0 Screen0 0 0 Perhaps you may have something amiss with the Screen line in your ServerLayout section. Don't you need quotes, e.g. shouldn't it read something more like: Screen Screen 1 Or in your case Screen0?? What happens when you grep /var/log/Xorg.0.log for WW and EE? -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] Second Look at OI Stable Proposal (was Re: Proposal: OpenIndiana Stable Branch)
I was just taking a second (well, actually third) look at this and the more important baby (IMAP) was thrown out with the bath water (MTA debate). On Tue, 2011-01-25 at 11:50 -0700, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 20:36 +, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: Hi All, [snip] Despite all it's goodness, one, if not the, primary detractor to Open Solaris's uptake was a paucity of 3rd party packages. Postponing until IllumOS integraton would allow more time for the repository to be updated and fleshed out, thereby creating a better initial impression of fresh and up to date Open Solaris based system. If the minimal supported server now path is chosen, then I think there really needs to be some POP3/IMAP package on the list, because it's not all just about web servers. Cyrus or Dovecot would be good choices. The proposed minimal set of packages to be supported is very web server centric. Email is still a BIG component of the Internet and I believe that at least one IMAP package should be included in the supported list. And that package should be either Dovecot (simpler) or Cyrus (bigger enterprise ready and more RFC conformant). There are many people running large Cyrus ZFS installations on Solaris based systems (although many OpenSolaris may have migrated by now) so I think it might not bee too difficult if we approached the appropriate Cyrus mailing list with a request to package for OI. Probably similarly for Dovecot, as last I communicated with Timo (admittedly in early Dovecot development) he was very helpful guy. My personal preference would be for Cyrus because of the RFC feature/conformance aspect. Also, I think SSH needs to be added to the supported list. I'm sure this one was merely an oversight. Thank you and have a nice day. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Second Look at OI Stable Proposal (was Re: Proposal: OpenIndiana Stable Branch)
On Sun, 2011-02-13 at 19:58 +, Deano wrote: Hi Ken, Most of us agree that the more packages and more of a cross section the stable build has, the better. However the main issue is supporting it, it's not simply packaging, its maintaining it to a high enough standard to be considered stable, if someone can come forward and not only offer a package but be willing to look after it, follow the security alerts, package and patch it, then great. For now we have some great people supporting many packages and consolidation, but getting more into the stable list requires more people interested in helping. I understand that. Be that as it may, however, consider the perception of a potential end user who hears about OI's stable server release and takes if for a test spin, only to learn that there's not even one single, solitary supported IMAP package. Last I looked, email was #1 use of the Internet, followed by WWW. Granted it's been a couple years since I last checked, but if email is not #1 I'll wager it's close behind as #2. Hence, in m view, that seems like a huge sector to be blowing off. Especially in light of comparatively rich support on the web framework front; apache, php, java, tomcat, python, ruby, perl. As well as having other major Internet service bases covered between Bind Sendmail, and not one, but two RDBMS systems. An IMAP option is, ohmo, is an essential component server side and the lack thereof not only leaves a huge gaping hole, but also potentially paints a target for negative evaluations and reviews. I don't really speak for the OI dev community so did not feel like it was my place to solicit help from e.g. Cyrus dev community. But I suspect that if someone of a bit higher profile approached them they'd be receptive. Problem solved, no? I say Cyrus becuase I've used pretty much all of these at one time or another and in modern times the choice pretty much boils down to Cyrus or Dovecot. Dovecot is less feature complete and under more active development. Cyrus would therefore likely involve less effort on the pkg maintenance side. My $0.02. I'm just trying to help. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] GPU HCL - nVidia Questions Advice
On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 05:55 -0800, ken mays wrote: To Ken Gunderson, The Quadro 600 works fine. Thanks, Ken. How's the noise on that unit in a quiet room/office environment? In my experience larger diameter fans running at lower rpm's are preferable to smaller units spinning fast. nVidia specs as under 23 db but you can never believe marketing :( I give much higher credence to actual end users :) If you want a basic low-cost graphics card, you can use the GeForce GT 430 or NVIDIA 9600 GT which is available in most stores today for about $50-$80 USD. I suggest the Nvidia 9600 GT if you're a casual 3D user (i.e. gaming or otherwise), or the GT 430 if you need something more 'low profile'... I'm personally okay with the under $200 price point I'll update the HCL to reflect 'cheaper' cards. But it's good to have some under $100 cards on the list :) Thanks to all who replied. I think I'm going to grab a quadro 600, unless Ken comes back with unfavorable db reports. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] GPU HCL - nVidia Questions Advice
On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 09:00 -0800, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: On 02/09/11 21:52, Ken Gunderson wrote: I need a new graphics card for an older system (PCIE-1.0). I don't game, do graphics, rendering, etc. so don't need high end - just a good workstation unit that supports OpenGL, good color accuracy, and draws square squares :) Occasional DVD's are probably about the most GPU intensive use the system sees. Noisy fans and failed fan bearings are a drag, so passive cooling is a plus, but not always a must as long as the card doesn't make the box sound like a hovercraft. I've been happy with: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024NL1E0 in a system built around a Tyan S2865-family motherboard(which may well qualify as an older system now). Passive cooling. Drives two 24 LCD's quite happily. That model fits in a pcie x16 slot. i believe there's also a pcie x1 slot version if you really don't need performance... Thanks for the pointer. The 295 also made my short list and the passive cooling is a plus. The Quadro 600 seems like a lot more card for not very much more money, however, and since Ken reports first hand that the 600 is nice and quiet, seemed like the way to go. Now that I have first hand report of the 295, I'll give it a bit more thought and consideration, as even though the 600 is quiet, the box runs pretty much 24x7 and no moving parts to wear out is a plus. PCIE2 cards downgrade to PCIE1 (and vice versa), you just loose the extra bandwidth. At least that's the theory w.r.t. the spec. I've yet to actually try it. Oh yeah, and an S2865 based system is exactly what it will be calling home. Only single 24 LCD at present. Thanks again to all-- Ken -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] GPU HCL - nVidia Questions Advice
On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 05:55 -0800, ken mays wrote: To Ken Gunderson, The Quadro 600 works fine. If you want a basic low-cost graphics card, you can use the GeForce GT 430 or NVIDIA 9600 GT which is available in most stores today for about $50-$80 USD. I suggest the Nvidia 9600 GT if you're a casual 3D user (i.e. gaming or otherwise), or the GT 430 if you need something more 'low profile'... I'll update the HCL to reflect 'cheaper' cards. Lol, latest update now includes the Quadro 6000 and some other not so inexpensive models. Hope you're not paying for this stuff out of your own pocket ;-P To Guy, Colin Ellis is reviewing the issues with DRI/DMA support for the Illumos team. A patch fix is available through Oracle's X team for the reported bug/CR 7001754 (not officially committed yet to resolve bug so I'll say 'no' for the record). Sidenote: I've tested the Nvidia drivers up to v260.19.36 with OI 148. With the default drivers included, you can go as high-end as the Quadro 6000. Does anyone else think it might be nice to have an additional, separate list for cards supported by the default drivers? -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] BSD Magazine mentions OpenIndiana
On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 10:09 +, Jonathan Adams wrote: True, but then Sun did mess up by abandoning Solaris x86 (last release Solaris 8) just at the time that it (x86) really took off, and in realising their mistake started producing Solaris x86 (First release late Solaris 9) ... It caused us problems and headaches because we ran Oracle on one of our servers (although we had some Sparc in house at the time) and Oracle said that they were going to stop supporting x86. We now have only 1 Sparc box left, about 30 x86 Solaris 10 boxes ... and currently 1 OpenIndiana laptop ... Only 1 *Solaris box left here as well - and that's my workstation daily driver. Been meaning to getting around to switching it over to FreeBSD but time has slipped by. I took 148-dev for a short test drive shortly after release and man, OI is so sluggish as to be pretty much unusable as a desktop and I just wrote it off as a dev release, still not ready for prime time. Subsequently Alasdair posted his stable release proposal, which made me think I needed to revisit OI and take a closer look. Then this BSD mag article comes out. Interestingly, the article author acknowledges that it takes forever and a day to boot, but then comments on it performing well. I installed in on an exact clone of my workstation (presently OS-2009.06) and the difference was like night and day. I didn't have time to look into it at all but mayhaps some major x server changes? Graphics card is Radeon RV370, wh/uses radeon driver on the os box, but Gnome being so slow makes me wonder if maybe OI was defaulting to vga? -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Proposal: OpenIndiana Stable Branch
On Tue, 2011-01-25 at 21:52 +, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: Hi Ken, On 25 Jan 2011, at 18:50, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 20:36 +, Alasdair Lumsden wrote: Hi All, I believe now would be a really good time for us to create our first stable branch of OpenIndiana, given the timing of some developments within the project. Was a consensus ever reached on this? Yes, we're going ahead! :-) I'm hoping to target 2010.02 but it might slip to 2010.03, depending on how much work needs to be done to secure all the packages and commit resources to monitoring security lists. We need more volunteers willing to help adopt packages they'll look after. But I think there has been mass misunderstanding on what we are intending to do, so I'll put it in the simplest possible terms. The stable branch will consist of us copying oi_148 from /dev into /release, in its entirety, along with a few bug fixes and a bunch of security fixes. We'll only make available the Text Installer ISO. We will then provide security updates for a limited, defined set of software, for a limited period (6 months, or until the next stable release is put out). No minimisation, no replacement of MTAs, no changes. Minimising the OS, or yanking out the core MTA, would require a huge amount of work and break compatibility in a big way with the upstream Oracle source we're still building. It's not something we're looking to do right now - there are much more important bits of work needing to be done. Down the road in the future, replacing Sendmail with Postfix is something we could do. But minimising the OS doesn't make sense. What's the difference between Ubuntu Server and Ubuntu Desktop? As far as I'm aware, just the package list. It's the same story with OpenIndiana - if you want to run a server, do your install from the Text Installer ISO or the Automated Installer ISO. You get a stripped down package set suitable for servers. We would like the Text Installer to be leaner and lighter, and we can potentially achieve this at a later date by refactoring some of the packages, and this is something we'd like to do. But for now, things like internationalisation (g11n), Illumos integration, and providing security patches to a stable oi_148 branch are more important. You are right though about needing more software in our repos, and this is something we do intend to do via the OIAC project, please see: http://wiki.openindiana.org/display/~guido/OI+Extra+Consolidation If you'd like to help out with this, we'd love the support. We can provide permanent build zones, help mentor you (or anybody else looking to help) and explain how to do it. It's great to volunteer, you help others and it looks good on the CV, and you get to meet people and make new friends, learn stuff and gain skills. Cheers, Alasdair Thank you for the clarification. I'd followed the discussion, but was unsure as to the final result. As for packages, yes, this is something I would be willing to help out on, but I am committed heavily to other projects at present and have minimal spare time. Given that, and operating on the premise that some help is better than no help, I'm willing to do what I can. The consolidation link above is prompting me for a username/pass to access. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Proposal: OpenIndiana Stable Branch
On Tue, 2011-01-25 at 10:58 -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: On 01/25/11 10:50 AM, Ken Gunderson wrote: As for the MTA discussion, Postfix is pretty much a drop in replacement for Sendmail, and my vote would be to replace Sendmail entirely. I still don't understand this subthread - if someone wants to start working on postfix as a development project for a future release, that makes sense, but doing it as a bug fix in a stable branch that's just supposed to be providing fixes for the b148 already shipped? That just seems to violate the definition of a stable branch. At the very least it should go into the development branch first to get some testing before you even consider backporting it to stable. (Not that I get a vote - that's up to the developers who actually do the work, not those of us just here to provide color commentary.) Few are going to use Sendmail for anything other than sending notices to root. It would create a better first impression if OI shipped with a modern MTA such as Postfix or Exim. Postfix, being a drop in replacement for Sendmail, would be relatively painless. There's a saying that you never get a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression. Also that perception is 9/10ths of reality. Sure, the *BSD ship with Sendmail, but that is mostly for historical reasons and that nobody wants to get into a holy war as to what a more modern default should be. At the time Debian opted for Exim, Sendmail was one security exploit after another waiting to happen, Postfix was not yet in existence and Qmail, the other potential contender, had an unacceptable license. Several Linux distributions ship with Postfix. Just because Oracle makes a poor decision and ships Sendmail doesn't mean OI necessarily has to follow, no? It's not a big deal to me. I was expressing agreement with others who've lobbied for Postfix. -- Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
