Re: [opensuse] A very interesting Virtualization Theory article

[Gaël Lams]

This sounds fine, as far as it goes, but sometime you're going to
have to upgrade the host on which vm1 and vm2 run.


I don't know for Xen but VMware allow live migration of virtual
machine to new esx server hardware. They are also working on seemless
migration between esx versions
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Re: [opensuse] What's the point with 64 bit

[Petr Klíma]

M Harris wrote:
>   Although the analogy is going to be a little contrived, its something 
> like 
> the concept of cylinders in an internal combustion engine... there were cars 
> made back in the 30s-50s with 10, 12, and 16 cylinders...   but due to 
> harmonics, balance, and other issues (8) seems to be the best (optimum) 
> number of cylinders.  von Neumann processors are going to be similar... my 
> gut feeling is that 32 bit width is going to be optimum and that 64 bit is 
> the beginning of the end of no returns. I mean if PCs really ever do need to 
> have more than 4gig of real storage/virtual storage then.. .maybe.  But also 
> remember that the processor's instruction set complexity (and performance) 
> play a role (are impacted). 

Well, I guess in 2-3 years 4GB of RAM will be common. And it's
definitely not only about bus, it's about register width (and therefore
about ALU as well), which increased as well. 64bit registers help when
computing numbers larger than "common" int. That was probably the idea
behing old 64bit MIPS, Alphas and such, whose real world speed may
be compared with Pentium or even i486.

64bit CPUs are faster when working with large integers (which is not
that frequent I presume), and they are a must when your application
needs >3GB of memory. No other advantages here.

I'm not sure where, but two or three years ago I saw a mysql and/or
apache benchmark comparing 32bit vs. 64bit version performance on Athlon
64. If I remember correctly, 64 bit versions were faster by tens of
percents. In other words, it depends on software as well.

>   I really think that multiple cores is going to be more practical (32 
> bit) 
> than a wider bus. I would much rather have a quad processor (32 bit) right 
> now than a 64 bit bus... which for the most part I do not need.

Well, talking about bus, 64 bit wide memory bus is here since SDR DRAM
was introduced back in 1990's. Double channel efectively doubles that to
128bits I believe. Itanium 2 uses quad-channel memory bus and it gets
quite confusing when considering multi-socket Opterons

Multi-core - well, we get back to software then. Most people run single
application and only small fraction runs more than 2 CPU intensive apps
at a time. Realizing that most common today application software is
single thread, you don't really need more than a double core. Quad core
is investment for the future while the same goes for 64 bit CPUs.

In fact, this discussion doesn't have a point. You can't buy 32bit only
CPU (for common home use) anymore, at least there's no such worth
mentioning. Yes, there's VIA, but it doesn't fit into "common home use".

Cheers, Tosuja
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Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.tosuja.info
ICQ: 52057532

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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

[Andreas Jaeger]

"Rajko M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Monday 14 May 2007 09:51, Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett wrote:
>> But sometimes this happens the other way around,
>> needinfo that never gets answered :-P
>
> It happened and it will happen again if:
> - user has no idea that reporting is just a start of process
> - user just realized that there is no bug and can't addmit that
>
> And also:
> - needinfo is asking for information that one don't want to publish on 
> Internet,  

You might still find a way to get the info to the requester,
e.g. marking it as private so that not everybody can see it.

But you can always say explicitely: Sorry, will not give this
information.

> - needinfo is asking for remote access to computer

This shouldn't happen.

> You are friendly people and we trust your software, but sometimes a bit of 
> discretion might be helpful. Not everyone has test computers as Felix, and 
> giving information from machine in use might be not good idea. 
>
> BTW, what is policy about closing bugs that hang with need info for some 
> time. 

In general we close bugs as "CANTFIX" (using WONTFIX for it) if they are
in NEEDINFO for longer than 4 weeks.  If the user gives the info later,
s/he can always reopen the bug,

Andreas
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Re: [opensuse] Lost Interrupt

[Petr Klíma]

Hi,
everytime this happened to me (3-5 times with HDD), it was hardware
fault. I'm definitely sure that in several cases IDE cable change helped
and I don't remember the need for drive replacement. Maybe changing the
drive setup (e.g. exchange hdc with hdd)

Last week I got several times "hda: lost interrupt" and the problem was
solved by moving hdb to hdd...

Tosuja

Lívio Cipriano wrote:
> I'm using openSUSE 10.2 for some time and in the last days, at boot time, the 
> following line appears:
> 
> "hdc: lost interrupt"
> 
> where hdc is:
> 
> "hdc: ATAPI 48X DVD-ROM drive, 2048kB Cache, UDMA(33)"
> 
> The boot process waits several minutes after the first line and then resumes; 
> apparently in a normal way.
> 
> When I enter in KDE, the CD works and YAST even indicates UDMA 33, which is 
> the mode detected at boot time.
> 
> Can I tune this by software or BIOS settings or it's a indication that the 
> drive is malfunction?
> 
> I append the zipped boot.msg.
> 

-- 
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Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.tosuja.info
ICQ: 52057532

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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[scsijon]

At 01:31 AM 5/14/2007, Rikard Johnels wrote:

On Sunday 13 May 2007 17:05, Mike McMullin wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 10:39 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:
> > On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 20:43 +1000, scsijon wrote:
> > > I have been asked to setup a number of single computers for a transport
> > > firm.
> > >





> > > Any sugestions?
> >
> >   IIRC Eudora runs under wine.
>
>   I just had a look at the Eudora site, it's been discontinued, and
> picked up by Mozilla as Penelope.  The company may not be able to use
> this on their new systems.

And why would they want run a windows application under wine when 
they WANT to

migrate to Linux???

As stated above, what do you need of Eudora's functionality?
The mail client for reading? The addressbook for sending of mails?



i have no detailed idea, i'm not the programmer, just the installer

but from what i understand, there are database links to move the 
various unit (palate) records
between the sending > receiving offices using the mail system. 
Aparently Eudora's scripting

is easy to use and very database compatable, acording to the programmer.

It's not simple, but it does work for them and saves having to have 
direct or permanent links.


scsijon

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Re: [opensuse] Mail Program wanted?

[scsijon]

At 12:39 AM 5/14/2007, Mike McMullin wrote:

On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 20:43 +1000, scsijon wrote:
> I have b





> Any sugestions?

  IIRC Eudora runs under wine.

--


and that was my current sugestion to them, however I have no 
experience with wine

and it's on my todo list.

scsijon 


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[opensuse] kde umount (safely remove) of usb device

[M Harris]

Solved Technical Problem for which I want more information:

openSUSE 10.0

USB device installed after boot-up and mounted via HAL opens and is 
useable; 
however, the device does not show on the kicker panel by default, and when 
Safely Remove is clicked from the device icon within "my computer" 
kio_media_mounthelper gives the error message, "device not in fstab and/or 
you are not root". 

[some of this I got from the archive]

First, the device icon can be placed in the kicker panel by default if 
the 
kde user first adds the applet "Storage Media" to the panel.  This should be 
a default openSUSE setup option for kde (IMO).

Second, the kio_media_mounthelper will "Safely Remove" the device [ 
unmount 
and eject ] if the following file is changed:

/opt/kde3/share/apps/konqueror/servicemenus/media_safelyremove.desktop

At the bottom of the file (see above) change the line

'Exec=kio_media_mounthelper -s %u'   to read

'Exec=kio_media_mounthelper -e %u'

The first does a umount [as root] from fstab ?? and the second does a 
kdeeject as the user...  seems to work fine, problem solved.

Now... what I am looking for is additional information about 
kio_media_mounthelper and kdeeject.  The man page for kio_media_mounthelper 
says that the -s is needed for some usb devices.. but doesn't say which ones 
or why.  And the kdeeject  [ -e switch ] appears to umount and eject just 
fine... but I cannot find confirmation that it truly is doing a clean (sync) 
umount  and an eject in a safe way...  what I would really like to know is a 
definitive explanation for the two options?  Also, does mounting the device 
from HAL without the sync option cause a problem for kdeeject?

This is a useability issue that should be corrected--- and I would like 
to 
know if 10.2--on   has fixed this?



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Re: [opensuse] Off topic discussions

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 22:55, Pueblo Native wrote:
> It is a good idea, my only question was whether or not people would know
> what the list is for given the name.
Maybe not, but maybe

opensuse-project  is ok...

opensuse-ux   should probably be  opensuse-useability

and opensuse-offtopic  should probably be  opensuse-nontechnical

opensuse   should be   opensuse-technical

... and the reason is that opensuse sounds like: opensuse-general ??

I realize that there are some who just want the technical and are not 
so much 
concerned for the community... and by that I mean the interaction of the 
community members to each other... on various levels. For the community to 
bond, grow, become a cohesive entity the community members need to get to 
know each other, and for other than technical merits of opensuse.  This is 
particularly important from a worldview standpoint.  I have always believed 
in world peace through world trade... and old IBM principle... and I believe 
even stronger today in world peace through world development and ownership... 
openSUSE style, Ubuntu style, etc.  World-wide discussion lists which provide 
cohesive venues for wholesome dialogue among nations and people groups is  
just plain awesome. Even when things get a little tense sometimes, free 
communication fosters understanding and brotherhood.  The point is, to be 
able to interact with the openSUSE community world-wide (not just the USA, or 
the EU, etc) is the major benefit of the list servers... I am in favor of 
placing social, patent, copyleft, FOSS specific to openSUSE, on the 
opensuse-project list, if its welcome there--- and if the community will 
really be willing to dialogue from that venue.   There really isn't much 
point to posting those issues to offtopice particularly if folks don't read 
them... but from another angle its just as easy to post to a personal blog 
for that again, the point is to have a meaningful dialogue with the 
community... not just post a diatribe blog style.


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Re: [opensuse] Off topic discussions

[Rajko M.]

On Monday 14 May 2007 22:20, Pueblo Native wrote:
> Rajko M. wrote:
> > For social events that has imporatance for openSUSE comunity and project
> > we have:
> >   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > mail list. There can be discussed social events including patent and
> > copyright topics.
>
> I'm only saying this as a person who speed reads too much for his own
> good when I say that that name isn't exactly intuitive for what's
> supposed to be discussed there.  Wouldn't something like, say
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" or "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> be a little better.

It's first intention is openSUSE project related topics, and that sometimes 
includes discussion of technical aspects. 
 
The Hans Reiser case still doesn't fit in it. 
While he is creator of something that SUSE used for a while, his private life 
is for offtopic list. 

It would be nice if there will be opensuse-advocacy list for all common 
nontechnical issues. It was once proposed, but opinion was that the 
opensuse-project can be used for that type of discussions. 

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Re: [opensuse] What's the point with 64 bit

[Pueblo Native]

M Harris wrote:
> On Monday 14 May 2007 22:28, Randall R Schulz wrote:
>   
>>> otherwise).  So then, if there is no speed advantage, what's the
>>> point in even having a 64 bit processor right now?
>>>   
>> Addressing large virtual address spaces and / or installing large
>> amounts of physical RAM.
>>
>> If you don't need one or both of these things, it's just overhead
>> without payback.
>> 
>   Although the analogy is going to be a little contrived, its something 
> like 
> the concept of cylinders in an internal combustion engine... there were cars 
> made back in the 30s-50s with 10, 12, and 16 cylinders...   but due to 
> harmonics, balance, and other issues (8) seems to be the best (optimum) 
> number of cylinders.  von Neumann processors are going to be similar... my 
> gut feeling is that 32 bit width is going to be optimum and that 64 bit is 
> the beginning of the end of no returns. I mean if PCs really ever do need to 
> have more than 4gig of real storage/virtual storage then.. .maybe.  

Need, I don't think so, but remember, computers or government, what is
spent rises as a rate that quickly eats up any surplus and then some.

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Re: [opensuse] Off topic discussions

[Pueblo Native]

M Harris wrote:
> On Monday 14 May 2007 22:20, Pueblo Native wrote:
>   
>>>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> mail list. There can be discussed social events including patent and
>>> copyright topics.
>>>   
>   sounds good... 
>
>   

It is a good idea, my only question was whether or not people would know
what the list is for given the name.
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Re: [opensuse] What's the point with 64 bit

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 22:28, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> > otherwise).  So then, if there is no speed advantage, what's the
> > point in even having a 64 bit processor right now?
>
> Addressing large virtual address spaces and / or installing large
> amounts of physical RAM.
>
> If you don't need one or both of these things, it's just overhead
> without payback.
Although the analogy is going to be a little contrived, its something 
like 
the concept of cylinders in an internal combustion engine... there were cars 
made back in the 30s-50s with 10, 12, and 16 cylinders...   but due to 
harmonics, balance, and other issues (8) seems to be the best (optimum) 
number of cylinders.  von Neumann processors are going to be similar... my 
gut feeling is that 32 bit width is going to be optimum and that 64 bit is 
the beginning of the end of no returns. I mean if PCs really ever do need to 
have more than 4gig of real storage/virtual storage then.. .maybe.  But also 
remember that the processor's instruction set complexity (and performance) 
play a role (are impacted). 
I really think that multiple cores is going to be more practical (32 
bit) 
than a wider bus. I would much rather have a quad processor (32 bit) right 
now than a 64 bit bus... which for the most part I do not need.



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Re: [opensuse] Off topic discussions

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 22:20, Pueblo Native wrote:
> >   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > mail list. There can be discussed social events including patent and
> > copyright topics.
sounds good... 




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Re: [opensuse] What's the point with 64 bit

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 14 May 2007 20:23, Pueblo Native wrote:
> it seems that almost everybody I've talked to has advised me not to
> go with the 64 bit version of OpenSuse because there really is no
> speed advantage (if that's not good advice I'd like to hear
> otherwise).  So then, if there is no speed advantage, what's the
> point in even having a 64 bit processor right now?

Addressing large virtual address spaces and / or installing large 
amounts of physical RAM.

If you don't need one or both of these things, it's just overhead 
without payback.


Randall Schulz
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[opensuse] What's the point with 64 bit

[Pueblo Native]

it seems that almost everybody I've talked to has advised me not to go
with the 64 bit version of OpenSuse because there really is no speed
advantage (if that's not good advice I'd like to hear otherwise).  So
then, if there is no speed advantage, what's the point in even having a
64 bit processor right now?
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Re: [opensuse] Off topic discussions

[Pueblo Native]

Rajko M. wrote:
> For social events that has imporatance for openSUSE comunity and project we 
> have:
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> mail list. There can be discussed social events including patent and 
> copyright 
> topics. 
>   

I'm only saying this as a person who speed reads too much for his own
good when I say that that name isn't exactly intuitive for what's
supposed to be discussed there.  Wouldn't something like, say
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" or "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
be a little better.
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Re: [opensuse] ati drivers

[BandiPat]

On Monday 14 May 2007, Petr Klíma wrote:
> Have you ever tried to display radeon man page? You'll see "2d only"
> beside most newer chips. And yes, that's current state on 7.1 Xorg.
>
> With glxgears (being definitely non-benchmark), you can easily
> achieve 3000 fps with pure software rendering.
>
> I was talking about laziness in windows redrawal and so on. Firefox
> is especially slow, making user experience quite unnacceptable.
>
> On my IBM T41 notebook with Radeon 7500, 2D experience with radeon
> driver is way better - even Composition is done in hardware and at
> least window transparency is handled by hardware and perfectly
> smooth. I was very surprised to find that such old card can handle
> this.
>
> Cheers, Tosuja



Actually I have read much of the man page, as I tried to keep up with 
things going on.  I followed the XFree86 until Xorg branched off as I 
was keenly interested in the progress they were making.  Many of the 
newer cards do only list 2d only, but the 9800 is not a newer card.  In 
fact, in the world of graphics cards it's quite old, so support for it 
is there.

glxgears is not the definitive benchmark for 3d, that's true, but you 
won't easily achieve 3000 fps on any card, unless the driver being used 
is strong enough to drive it to such speeds.

I've never experienced laziness in windows or any thing else since using 
the Radeon cards, from the 7000 up.  I've continually gotten good 
service and ease of install with all of them.  That's not to say it 
can't be done, because if you overdrive the cards capabilites, you'll 
get problems.  

Yep, I do agree with you on the last paragraph, as the 7000 series have 
always performed surprisingly well on everything I've seen.  I've 
always been pleased with it's 3d capabilities as well.

It doesn't sound like you've gotten the consistent good performance out 
of your ATI cards that I have, from your description, but I'm not sure 
the cards were incapable of good performance.

regards,
Lee
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Re: [opensuse] Microsoft claims software like Linux violates its patents - May 28, 2007

[frank nelson]

--- M Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Monday 14 May 2007 04:59, frank nelson wrote:
> >  thank you for bringing this article
> > to my attention, so that I might be allowed an
> > opportunity to correct a situation in which I was
> in
> > error. Ya done good kid, and I truly appreciate
> it.
>   Very nice... 
> 
> 
>   :)
> 

Only fair. It would be a bit hypocritical to demand a
standard for others, that one does not demand of
oneself.




   

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play 
Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  
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Re: [opensuse] [OT] - Australian extradited to US to stand trial - US penitentiary????????????? NO NO NO

[Pueblo Native]

Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * M Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [05-14-07 16:47]:
>  [...]
>   
>>  Anyway, you could setup a filter for [opensuse][OT] and just send them 
>> to /dev/null and not worry about it. As long as the message is either 
>> directed to the off-topic list, or at least flagged [OT] then I dont see a 
>> problem... but thats just me.
>> 
>
> So, if I don't see the guy raping the girl across the street, it's ok,
> but that's just you ??
>
>   

Okay, would you like to take a moment to examine how retarded that
statement is, or would you like us to do it for you?
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Re: [opensuse] [OT] .........

[Rajko M.]

On Monday 14 May 2007 20:53, M Harris wrote:
> On Monday 14 May 2007 20:38, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > anyone wanting/needing to search the
> > archives which are approaching 50 percent trash.  And the list
> > archives *should* be one of our greatest assets.
>
>   I was wondering about this topic a couple of days ago... I too have been
> frustrated with the signal to noise ratio of the archive (and I am fully
> able to admit my share [or more] of the noise).  I am wondering if a
> candidate system has been discussed for the archive?  Its a little like
> reverse list moderation... items are flagged (later, either by the OP or
> the primary responder) for inclusion into the archive.  A moderator reviews
> the flagged posts and then updates the archive appropriately with topics
> that actually provided resolution to a given problem.  Even with correct
> use of the list, there is probably a 60-40 signal to noise ration of
> regular technical discussion and not all of it should merit the archive. 
> Right?

Good thinking, but making one system that will flag messages and sort them out 
is way harder than to create mail list and ask users to post according to the 
advertised topic. 

Actually only this list has a problem with to much load. 

Networking has no single post since May 7th, and the similar is with most of 
specialized lists. 

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[opensuse] Off topic discussions

[Rajko M.]

This list is advertised as first aid for openSUSE users that have problems 
installing, configuring and using openSUSE. 

Off topic articles and strayed threads renders list hard to use, and for the 
new users, that should profit the most, is near to useless.

The opensuse@opensuse.org is important part of openSUSE help system and 
filling it with endless dicussions about all kind of public and private legal 
issues, Novell deal and many more will do good only to someone that want this 
to fail. 

For social events that has imporatance for openSUSE comunity and project we 
have:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mail list. There can be discussed social events including patent and copyright 
topics. 

For usability issues we have 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
list where is discussion on improvement of openSUSE very welcome. 

For all other topics including all other legal discussions, bird lifespan near 
wind power plants, and whatever you imagine, we have: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [opensuse] The Leopard Shows its Spots

[Benjamin Rosenberg]

The FAA is not doing anything to students. You mean the RIAA.

To find out what the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) is ..  
check out this site..


http://www.faa.gov/

- Ben

On May 14, 2007, at 8:53 PM, tino perez wrote:



FAA sue universities students, M$ going after few lines of codes in my
computer. please ... my dear Americans, get a hold of your lawyers!


M$ is about to get stump in the head...
tamate tamate!





Both articles are interesting and relevant in terms of the American
Marketplace as being the largest in the world. I would view this  
article
as an analysis intended to keep investors and shareholders on  
board, and

the business equivalent to the Haka(*) before the big (rugby) game.
bla bla bla
(*) The maori haka is a ritual hurling of abuse and threats before
getting down to the serious business of mutual brain bashing...  
used by
the All Blacks in Rugby Union for much the same purpose... [NZ  
members

of the list may wish to elaborate]


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"We should forgive our enemies. But not before they are hanged."  
Heinrich Heine



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Re: [opensuse] The Leopard Shows its Spots

[tino perez]

FAA sue universities students, M$ going after few lines of codes in my
computer. please ... my dear Americans, get a hold of your lawyers!


M$ is about to get stump in the head... 
tamate tamate!




> Both articles are interesting and relevant in terms of the American
> Marketplace as being the largest in the world. I would view this article
> as an analysis intended to keep investors and shareholders on board, and
> the business equivalent to the Haka(*) before the big (rugby) game.
> bla bla bla
> (*) The maori haka is a ritual hurling of abuse and threats before
> getting down to the serious business of mutual brain bashing... used by
> the All Blacks in Rugby Union for much the same purpose... [NZ members
> of the list may wish to elaborate]
> 
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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> HIpTWtUBzhJjADKG9Ldkx80=
> =Wu4N
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Re: [opensuse] [OT] .........

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 20:38, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> anyone wanting/needing to search the
> archives which are approaching 50 percent trash.  And the list
> archives *should* be one of our greatest assets.
I was wondering about this topic a couple of days ago... I too have 
been 
frustrated with the signal to noise ratio of the archive (and I am fully able 
to admit my share [or more] of the noise).  I am wondering if a candidate 
system has been discussed for the archive?  Its a little like reverse list 
moderation... items are flagged (later, either by the OP or the primary 
responder) for inclusion into the archive.  A moderator reviews the flagged 
posts and then updates the archive appropriately with topics that actually 
provided resolution to a given problem.  Even with correct use of the list, 
there is probably a 60-40 signal to noise ration of regular technical 
discussion and not all of it should merit the archive.  Right?


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Re: [opensuse] samba & adding users on the fly

[Jonathan Ervine]

Jack Malone wrote:
> From time to time I have to add users to the samba server during the work
> day. What I do now is after adding them to linux user then going an adding
> them to samba user via webmin an setting their password, I then have to
> restart samba server to make the changes take effect. I have to get all
> users to close out all files on samba server before I do this. Is there a
> way to reset samba so that the new user is added that I do not have to get
> all the other users to get off so that all open files are closed. It would
> be nice to just do this without having to get everything to close out all
> open files on the network. I hope this makes sense to you. 

Jack,
Try using /etc/init.d/smb reload (rcsmb reload) rather than stopping and
starting the daemon.

Jon
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Re: [opensuse] [OT] .........

[Patrick Shanahan]

* M Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [05-14-07 20:31]:
> On Monday 14 May 2007 19:07, Rajko M. wrote:
> > We should show a bit more consideration for the guys that are coming here
> > for the first time and may have problems with navigation.
>   yeah... the newbies... ok, good point

BUT, not *just* the nubies, anyone wanting/needing to search the
archives which are approaching 50 percent trash.  And the list
archives *should* be one of our greatest assets.

The condescending attitude toward legitiment list traffic is
reprehensible.  And, if the shoe fits.
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Re: [opensuse] Mico$oft Wants Royalties

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 19:09, S Glasoe wrote:
> And this has what to do with a technical issue with openSUSE Linux?
If you cared a whit about the technical issues with Novell openSUSE 
(let 
alone SLED, SLES) you wouldn't have to ask your question.  But since you ask, 
if M$ is correct (and they're probably BALLED FACED LIARS) then IP will spell 
game-over for Linux distributors like Novell, and there won't be any 
discussion to be had for openSUSE... end of story.
On the other hand (and far more likely) if Micro$oft execs are in fact 
BALLED 
FACED LIARS then these notes should be of immense interest to every technical 
person on this list... new and old alike... because being educated about this 
issue is the first step in fighting it. Patent numbers spell game-over for 
Linux... on the other hand FUD spells doom only as long as folks do not 
DISCUSS it in their main open forums... its critical. 
Novell stupidly played into the M$ scheme and took their bait... 
against all 
sound advice... neither here nor there at this point... but we cannot allow 
this to happen again... and the way to prevent it is to discuss it copiously. 

And another thing...

... something all commercial and hobby rocket engineers should be 
thinking 
about in the near future...  Gnu/Linux must be preserved, packaged, and 
prepared for random distribution.  M$ might take down Redhat, or Novell, (as 
a central target which they can put clearly in their sights) but they aren't 
even going to be able to target the larger community.  Ubuntu is a fantastic 
upstart in this direction.  But there have to be more... many more... forks 
and forks... from every direction.  It must spread like dandy-lion seeds 
across the lush green fields of IP nonsense.  If Micro$oft believes they can 
patent a mathematical algorithm (all software, most of which they stole 
themselves from Xerox and IBM) then the free software movement must prove 
them wrong... forever.  Eben Moglen is correct... the time is come and the 
time is now... there is going to be a clarion call for battle on the fields 
of patent law, relevant to every system engineer, or hacker, who wields the 
blade of the software art or ever called themselves "programmer".  

Don't Tread On Me
 
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Re: [opensuse] Microsoft claims software like Linux violates its patents - May 28, 2007

[steve reilly]

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On Sunday 13 May 2007 19:01, John Andersen wrote:
> On Sunday 13 May 2007, Pueblo Native wrote:
> > Gutierrez refuses to identify specific patents or explain how
> > they're being infringed, lest FOSS advocates start filing challenges to
> > them."
>
> Security by Obscurity takes a new twist.

they dont want anyone to start investigating a workaround before their 
impending court date lol.


>
> --
> _
> John Andersen

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Re: [opensuse] Problems with serial printer

[George Osvald]

On Monday 14 May 2007 20:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> The Monday 2007-05-14 at 11:50 +1000, George Osvald wrote:
> > I have a serial receipt printer connected to my server. Printing System
> > is CUPS on SuSe 10.2. Until upgrade it was working OK. Since then how
> > ever I often get this message:
> >
> > "Unable to open serial port device file "/dev/ttyS0": Permission denied"
>
> And what permissions does it has at that moment?

Just to be sure I gave it 777 but that did not make any difference. After I 
deleted the printer in CUPS and then installed it using Yast permissions were 
changed to crw-rw-rw-
As I explained in my other post the only way how to make the printer working 
is to delete it in CUPS and then install it with Yast. It does not work if I 
simply delete it in Yast and then install it again or do the same in CUPS.

> > from CUPS. I have to play with it a little set up the printer again and
> > it works for a while. Then it stops working again. How do I make it
> > working permanently?
>
> My guess would be one of those things like resmngr grabbing it for use by
> the desktop user (like a modem). Perhaps you have desktop gadgets to setup
> the modem: remove them. I'm thinking of kinternet and family. Or use Yast
> to tell it the modem is at ttyS1 perhaps. If there exists a /dev/modem
> link make sure it points somewhere else.

I do not have a modem but I will check this out.

> --
> Cheers,
>Carlos E. R.

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http://www.okstudio.com.au
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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

[Rajko M.]

On Monday 14 May 2007 09:51, Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett wrote:
> But sometimes this happens the other way around,
> needinfo that never gets answered :-P

It happened and it will happen again if:
- user has no idea that reporting is just a start of process
- user just realized that there is no bug and can't addmit that

And also:
- needinfo is asking for information that one don't want to publish on 
Internet,  
- needinfo is asking for remote access to computer

You are friendly people and we trust your software, but sometimes a bit of 
discretion might be helpful. Not everyone has test computers as Felix, and 
giving information from machine in use might be not good idea. 

BTW, what is policy about closing bugs that hang with need info for some time. 

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Re: [opensuse] [OT] .........

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 19:07, Rajko M. wrote:
> We should show a bit more consideration for the guys that are coming here
> for the first time and may have problems with navigation.
yeah... the newbies... ok, good point




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Re: [opensuse] Mico$oft Wants Royalties

[S Glasoe]

On Monday May 14 2007 4:54:00 pm M Harris wrote:
> So, Novell was offered the gambit and all of FOSS may have to pay...
>
>   ... from the article:
>
> "According to open-software experts Microsoft is the real winner. The deal
> with Novell allows Microsoft to go out and demonstrate it is correct about
> Linux violating Microsoft patents, since Novell agreed to pay $40 million
> not to have its Linux customers sued for violations."
>
> "Industry insiders are now weary of what may come of Microsoft's experts.
> If Microsoft convinces the patent system that it is right, the open-source
> industry could face potential meltdown. Eben Moglen, executive director of
> the Software Freedom Law Center says a massive war is about to be waged on
> the patent battlefield."
>
> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7269

And this has what to do with a technical issue with openSUSE Linux? Would you 
please, please, pretty please send this stuff to the real opensuse-offtopic 
list and leave this one for technical issues with openSUSE and its 
predecessors?

Thanks,
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Re: [opensuse] [OT] .........

[Rajko M.]

On Monday 14 May 2007 16:26, M Harris wrote:

>   And there is another minor (maybe not) point that has to do with orders 
> of
> magnitude (ie, I don't equate someone posting an occasional [opensuse][OT]

I can side with Patrick on off topic issue. 
The biggest threads here are off topic or those that became off topic. 
We should show a bit more consideration for the guys that are coming here for 
the first time and may have problems with navigation. 

And, yes I did all "don't do it" from:
   http://en.opensuse.org/Opensuse_mailing_list_netiquette
but we really should try to move all stuff that is not a technical issue to 
off topic, project etc. lists. 

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Re: [opensuse] The Leopard Shows its Spots

[jfweber]

On Mon May 14 2007, James Knott scratched these words onto a coconut 
shell, hoping for an answer:
> John Andersen wrote:
> > On Sunday 13 May 2007, Philipp Thomas wrote:
> >> On Sun, 13 May 2007 18:40:17 -0800, John Andersen wrote:
> >>> But I have yet to see Mr Frank Nelson weigh in on this.
> >>>
> >>> And since he claims authority on this subject  I'm sure more
> >>> denials of Microsoft's true intent are forthcoming
> >>
> >> If MSFT had that much *enforceable* patents, you think they
> >> wouldn't have sued yet?
> >
> > Why sue and expose your patents to attack fighting something that
> > amounts two tenths of one percent of the desktop market? 
> > Especially when they have been successful in scaring large
> > companies away from Linux for years with veiled threats.
>
> The MS claims remind me of the mob saying "You've  got a nice
> business here.  It'd be a shame if it burned down"

Sounds like a Monty Python skit.. the one about the army , where the two 
guys in dark suits and sunglasses sidle up to the General and say 
things like; "You got a nice army here , General, It'd be a shame if 
anything happened to it.. I mean, fings break, ya know,  don' they? "  
After some more musings by the two fellas, the general walks out in 
front of the camera and says "No, stop, this is just silly..." and they 
move to the next skit.. 

The whole collection of MS related articles on the (email's) subject 
Sounded like someone was floating a trial balloon to see if they could 
get any company to pay them for the patent infringement, in order 
to "protect themselves from MS potential suits." Didn't you guys find 
it strange the tactics are similar to SCO's against the folks they 
sued, or threatened to sue? 

Far better to just suggest you might and wouldn't they like to buy a 
license, just in case they are using anything that might infringe. So 
idiot will likely pay you.. And you, don't have to actually prove what 
software you claim infringes. In fact you don't have to show what apps 
use your software patented IP.

oh no, wait.. isn't that blackmail ? 

No one is going to fall for that old saw  are they?
;-)
-- 
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I've lived in the real world enough, we're all here because we ain't all 
there. 
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Re: [opensuse] unable to shutdown machine: does not shut down but resumes immediately

[Carlos E. R.]

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The Monday 2007-05-14 at 19:56 +0200, Julien Michielsen wrote:

> Lines I added to /etc/suspend.conf:
> HIBERNATE_MODE=shutdown
> shutdown method=platform

I don't have that variable, but shuting down is not hybernating.


> One line I modified in /etc/pm/config:
> HIBERNATE_METHOD={userspace,kernel}

It is either "userspace" or "kernel", not both. I have it empty.

> Is it not possible to suspend for a shutdown,
> and restart the next day?

Yes, I use it often.

- -- 
Cheers,
   Carlos E. R.

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Re: [opensuse] The Leopard Shows its Spots

[James Knott]

Randall R Schulz wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> I am going to assume you didn't mean to reply to me directly (since we 
> don't cotton to that 'round these parts) and quote your reply back to 
> the list.
>
>
> On Monday 14 May 2007 12:25, Jerry Houston wrote:
>   
>> Randall R Schulz wrote:
>> 
>>> It's not well reasoned, though, is it? First of all, the claim is
>>> that patents were infringed upon, not that source code was stolen.
>>> Patents describe concepts. Code is a reduction to practice. Bugs
>>> are introduced in the reduction to practice, while they're not an
>>> aspect of the essential concept.
>>>   
>> Patents are _supposed_ to be based on *processes*.
>> 
>
> There are process patents. There are device patents.
>
> And now there are software patents. Like it or not, and I most certainly 
> do not, it's currently the law here (the U.S.) and elsewhere, and until 
> that's changed, we're stuck in the morasse they create.
>   

And MS claims are of course patent nonsense.  ;-)


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Re: [opensuse] Build Service Index or Search?

[Joe Morris (NTM)]

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > Adding result paging would be possible, but I don't know of anyone who
> > actually bothers to look at multiple pages of results so it's probably
> > better to improve the ranking system where you spot problems like
> > this.
>
> A toggle to show all results? Or to show top 20, top 50, top 120, say?
I would second this one.  Also, perhaps it would be possible to not only
make a selection based on version but also on arch.  For example, I just
searched for openoffice, and though it did now list the build service
repo, it is only finding the i586 version (2.1), though I just updated
to 2.2 from there yesterday (but x86_64 arch).  So perhaps an additional
switch to raise the rank of x86_64 packages would be nice.

-- 
Joe Morris
Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.2 x86_64





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Re: [opensuse] The Leopard Shows its Spots

[Randall R Schulz]

Jerry,

I am going to assume you didn't mean to reply to me directly (since we 
don't cotton to that 'round these parts) and quote your reply back to 
the list.


On Monday 14 May 2007 12:25, Jerry Houston wrote:
> Randall R Schulz wrote:
> > It's not well reasoned, though, is it? First of all, the claim is
> > that patents were infringed upon, not that source code was stolen.
> > Patents describe concepts. Code is a reduction to practice. Bugs
> > are introduced in the reduction to practice, while they're not an
> > aspect of the essential concept.
>
> Patents are _supposed_ to be based on *processes*.

There are process patents. There are device patents.

And now there are software patents. Like it or not, and I most certainly 
do not, it's currently the law here (the U.S.) and elsewhere, and until 
that's changed, we're stuck in the morasse they create.


> Much of what's been patented in recent years is based on concepts,
> which is part of the problem.

That's not the problem. Everything that works is based on a concept, 
after all. Even when you don't understand the principle of operation 
(rare or non-existent in software, I'd say), those principles exist.

No, The problem is that patents are being granted for algorithms (many 
of them long part of common practice and common knowledge among 
software practitioners), loosely defined and vague "business processes" 
and such breathtaking innovations as "one-click shopping."


Randall Schulz
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Re: [opensuse] Hans Reiser

[Aaron Kulkis]

Michael Skiba wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Montag, 14. Mai 2007 01:55 schrieb John Andersen:

On Sunday 13 May 2007, Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Sunday 2007-05-13 at 22:14 +0200, Michael Skiba wrote:

Simply click on it, without having any useable informations (who the
hell is Hans Reiser?) about it?

You are kidding, no?

Windows user, afraid of URLs perhaps?

Welcome to Linux.
Actually no, but it's not very polite imho to give a link without any subject 
to it, sure I know the ReiserFS, but is that a reason for me that Hans Reiser 
has to ring a bell? Especially when I don't have any kontext?


Reiser

ResierFS

Hello...anybody home?  Anybody?





I mean, sure I could just click(or just ignore it), but for some people this 
is not the way to go, i.e. when you're at work. I mean could be anything, 
starting from a wired porn site over a spam message(they know how to use 
keywords, so the simple name Hans Reiser in the subject is not enough to 
verify it for me) or also a overloaded advertisement page - who knows?


Please tell me that you're just pretending to be this ignorant




No big problem you say? - Sure you're right!
But still very unpolite in my opionion. (I guess nothing more to say, everyone 
can judge this for himself)




Apparently, YOUR opinion is not a very well-informed opinion


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Re: [opensuse] unable to shutdown machine: does not shut down but resumes immediately

[Aaron Kulkis]

Julien Michielsen wrote:

I'd like to shutdown my machine and use the suspend fascility so that my
machine restarts faster and continues where I was before shutting down
my machine. However, when I click the cameleon-icon, and then choose
Leave (opening the choises Shutdown, Restart, Suspend to Disk and
Suspend to Ram) and subsequently "Suspend to Disk". This only gives me a
short message like "preparing to hibernate", and then immediately
restarts like nothing happened. I would like to shutdown the machine,
however.
Lines I added to /etc/suspend.conf:
HIBERNATE_MODE=shutdown
shutdown method=platform





One line I modified in /etc/pm/config:
HIBERNATE_METHOD={userspace,kernel}

but this did not improve the shutdown at all: the machine briefly shows
"preparing to hybernate", goes black, and does not shut down but shows
resuming . . .


Suspend to Disk is not fully debugged.

Be patient.



and restarts where it was. Is it not possible to suspend for a shutdown,
and restart the next day?


Personally, I just leave my laptop running all day every day,
unless there's a specific reason to shut down.


Thanks




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Re: [opensuse] Yast Update

[Joe Morris (NTM)]

Susemail wrote:
> I re-ran the Yast Online Update and now the non-xen version of the kernel 
> works on reboot. 
>
>  I think since the xen kernel is listed first in Grub it's being used as the 
> default kernel.  Is this true?
>   
Not really.  It is whatever entry corresponds to the default entry in
/boot/grub/menu.lst

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Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.2 x86_64





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Re: [opensuse] Mico$oft Wants Royalties

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 17:04, Druid wrote:
> Im thinking of asking Mr Ballmer to tell you guys to shut up and
> stuff, cause it seems that everything he says is the largest truth of
> the universe, and everybody should agree...
Good point...

... and PJ at Groklaw would agree I think... she thinks nothing will 
come of 
all the sabre rattling... but, bullies aren't normally know for their brain 
power.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070513234519615







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[opensuse] Public Key? (WAS First we're stealing, now we're dying)

[Dave Barton]

 Original Message 
From: G T Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue 15 May 2007 02:05:31 EST

Graham,

You sign your posts to this list a with key ID 0x29CB9A02 but I cannot
find your public key on the keyservers. Have you exported this key to
any keyserver?

Dave



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [opensuse] Mico$oft Wants Royalties

[Druid]

Im thinking of asking Mr Ballmer to tell you guys to shut up and
stuff, cause it seems that everything he says is the largest truth of
the universe, and everybody should agree...

If he tells your guys to jump in a swamp, or to buy M+Ms... heh, never mind

Marcio
---
druid

On 5/14/07, M Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

So, Novell was offered the gambit and all of FOSS may have to pay...

... from the article:

"According to open-software experts Microsoft is the real winner. The deal
with Novell allows Microsoft to go out and demonstrate it is correct about
Linux violating Microsoft patents, since Novell agreed to pay $40 million not
to have its Linux customers sued for violations."

"Industry insiders are now weary of what may come of Microsoft's experts. If
Microsoft convinces the patent system that it is right, the open-source
industry could face potential meltdown. Eben Moglen, executive director of
the Software Freedom Law Center says a massive war is about to be waged on
the patent battlefield."

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7269





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[opensuse] Mico$oft Wants Royalties

[M Harris]

So, Novell was offered the gambit and all of FOSS may have to pay... 

... from the article:

"According to open-software experts Microsoft is the real winner. The deal 
with Novell allows Microsoft to go out and demonstrate it is correct about 
Linux violating Microsoft patents, since Novell agreed to pay $40 million not 
to have its Linux customers sued for violations."

"Industry insiders are now weary of what may come of Microsoft's experts. If 
Microsoft convinces the patent system that it is right, the open-source 
industry could face potential meltdown. Eben Moglen, executive director of 
the Software Freedom Law Center says a massive war is about to be waged on 
the patent battlefield."

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7269


<>

[opensuse] Hans Reiser

[riccardo35]

http://crimeblog.us/?p=403

..

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Re: [opensuse] [OT] - Australian extradited to US to stand trial - US penitentiary????????????? NO NO NO

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 15:52, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> >   Anyway, you could setup a filter for [opensuse][OT] and just send
> > them to /dev/null and not worry about it. As long as the message is
> > either directed to the off-topic list, or at least flagged [OT] then I
> > dont see a problem... but thats just me.
>
> So, if I don't see the guy raping the girl across the street, it's ok,
> but that's just you ??
huh?   uh, raping who? ... never mind... 

... come on, I'm just saying that there are two considerations here:

1) if you monitor both lists... opensuse, and opensuse-offtopic, then 
it 
really doesn't matter which list stuff goes to (personally) cause you monitor 
both of them anyway... (I use filters, myself)

2) if a message is flagged [opensuse][OT] there is no problem.  The 
archive 
can handle this, and every person with a set of filters can handle it too...

And there is another minor (maybe not) point that has to do with orders 
of 
magnitude (ie, I don't equate someone posting an occasional [opensuse][OT] 
entry with boundary rape... which I think you were alluding to) so, I am just 
recommending setting a filter and going with the flow... and in the mean 
time... I will commit to you that I will pay better attention to where stuff 
is really showing up.   


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Re: [opensuse] RE: Suitable File Systems

[Greg Freemyer]

On 5/13/07, Vince L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Sunday 13 May 2007 20:52, John Andersen wrote:
> On Sunday 13 May 2007, Vince L wrote:
> > I seem to remember reading something either by him or
> > quoting him, which iirc in essence said that none of the distros people
> > understood reiserfs properly, that suse's changes were wrong, and even
> > his developers don't fully understand it.
>
> Souce please...

Take what I have written at face value, it is sufficiently caveated that I
don't feel obliged to spend the odd hour looking for a source and neither
should you feel obliged to work hard to refute it.

>
> > Resiserfs is at a dead end, and with hindsight it could have
> > been seen to be a dead end way back.
>
> Ext2 and 3 are equally candidates for dead-end-ism.


I would call Ext4 an infant, not dead (ie. it is not at End-of-life).

Ext4 is part of vanilla 2.6.19 per wikipedia so it should be in the
next openSUSE release.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext4

Greg
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Re: [opensuse] [OT] - Australian extradited to US to stand trial - US penitentiary????????????? NO NO NO

[Patrick Shanahan]

* M Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [05-14-07 16:47]:
 [...]
>   Anyway, you could setup a filter for [opensuse][OT] and just send them 
> to /dev/null and not worry about it. As long as the message is either 
> directed to the off-topic list, or at least flagged [OT] then I dont see a 
> problem... but thats just me.

So, if I don't see the guy raping the girl across the street, it's ok,
but that's just you ??

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Re: [opensuse] no messages

[Carl Spitzer]

Looks like SuSE list host fixed the problem for myrealbox but now I read
others are in similar issues.  Nothing I tried worked just yesterday it
started working correctly, no explanation no apology.  Ill keep the
gmail backup email on the other box just in case


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Re: [opensuse] [OT] - Australian extradited to US to stand trial - US penitentiary????????????? NO NO NO

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 14:52, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > This whole issue of an Australian, held without charge, on foreign soil
> > (non AU and NON US), under US Law, to be heard before a Military Court.
>
> You recognize that this post *is* OT, why not take it there, PLEASE?
I just realized what may be happening here... I have filters setup 
(hundreds 
of them) that do all "sorts" of magic... and one of them files [opensuse][OT] 
in my own off-topic list. So, when I personally respond to these I am 
responding to an off-topic entry and I am not really paying attention to the 
fact that the item is actually appearing on the main list... and of course 
those of us who monitor all lists dont really care whether the item shows up 
here of there cause we read them all anyway. I do read some groups before 
others obviously.
Anyway, you could setup a filter for [opensuse][OT] and just send them 
to /dev/null and not worry about it. As long as the message is either 
directed to the off-topic list, or at least flagged [OT] then I dont see a 
problem... but thats just me.




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Re: [opensuse] A very interesting Virtualization Theory article

[Peter Van Lone]

On 5/14/07, John O'Gorman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 15:40 -0400, Gordon Keehn wrote:
> John O'Gorman wrote:
> > On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 20:49 +0200, jef peeraer wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> John,
> >>
> >> do you mean that in the future, we will be able to install a new
> >> distribution by just copying one image ?


I've been using vmware workstation, to ease the transition from one
install to another (or, from old hardware to new hardware).

So basically, when I make a "big change" of some sort (new install,
upgrade, new hardware) the first thing I do after getting the new
install working basically, is install vmware. Then, I copy the image
of my "old install" and run it as a virtual machine.

That way, I can take my time getting the new device/install configured
just as I need it, because I have access to the "old one" when I need
it.

P
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Re: [opensuse] Hans Reiser

[Michael Skiba]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Montag, 14. Mai 2007 01:55 schrieb John Andersen:
> On Sunday 13 May 2007, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > The Sunday 2007-05-13 at 22:14 +0200, Michael Skiba wrote:
> > > Simply click on it, without having any useable informations (who the
> > > hell is Hans Reiser?) about it?
> >
> > You are kidding, no?
>
> Windows user, afraid of URLs perhaps?
>
> Welcome to Linux.
Actually no, but it's not very polite imho to give a link without any subject 
to it, sure I know the ReiserFS, but is that a reason for me that Hans Reiser 
has to ring a bell? Especially when I don't have any kontext?

I mean, sure I could just click(or just ignore it), but for some people this 
is not the way to go, i.e. when you're at work. I mean could be anything, 
starting from a wired porn site over a spam message(they know how to use 
keywords, so the simple name Hans Reiser in the subject is not enough to 
verify it for me) or also a overloaded advertisement page - who knows?

No big problem you say? - Sure you're right!
But still very unpolite in my opionion. (I guess nothing more to say, everyone 
can judge this for himself)


Greetings
Michael
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Re: [opensuse] A very interesting Virtualization Theory article

[John O'Gorman]

On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 15:40 -0400, Gordon Keehn wrote:
> John O'Gorman wrote:
> > On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 20:49 +0200, jef peeraer wrote:
> >   
> >>
> >> John,
> >>
> >> do you mean that in the future, we will be able to install a new 
> >> distribution by just copying one image ?
> >> 
> > That had not been my thought at all. But now that you mention it, I
> > suppose it is possible, provided that you reconfigured network
> > addresses, routing etc.
> > My intention was that while they were running on vm1, I could be
> > installing on vm2. Then when everything tested OK, just switch them over
> > to vm2. The next upgrade would then be on vm1, and so on.
> >   
> This sounds fine, as far as it goes, but sometime you're going to 
> have to upgrade the host on which vm1 and vm2 run.
True. But I figure the base system can be minimal and should be able to
last the life of the server. When the hardware came due for replacement
then we would install current versions of everything and copy the vms
across.

John O'Gorman
> 
> 

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Re: [opensuse] The Leopard Shows its Spots

[G T Smith]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Andersen wrote:
> On Monday 14 May 2007, G T Smith wrote:
>> MSs major cash cow is the OEM distribution of the OS to the consumer
>> sector,
> 
> MS's major cash cow is MS Office, not Vista or any version of windows.
> 

- From MS accounts profit (Operating Income)  by division

Client Division 9 months to March 31 2007  $8745m (basically windows)
Business Division "$7845m

This on approx same revenue stream... Business division is not solely
office. BTW Server + Tools Division is additional $2842 of profit. MS
has a lower margin on office 

The bulk of the Client division revenue will be OEM sales..

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aPPQVmrBfBI3jHRXP+dxxKs=
=laZH
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Re: [opensuse] The Leopard Shows its Spots

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 06:16, James Knott wrote:
> The MS claims remind me of the mob saying "You've  got a nice business
> here.  It'd be a shame if it burned down".
That is precisely what they are saying... and it ain't no joke... 

I'm gonna start calling them  MOB$




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Re: [opensuse] [OT] - Australian extradited to US to stand trial - US penitentiary????????????? NO NO NO

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Registration Account <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [05-14-07 04:21]:
> This whole issue of an Australian, held without charge, on foreign soil
> (non AU and NON US), under US Law, to be heard before a Military Court.

You recognize that this post *is* OT, why not take it there, PLEASE?

Mailing-List: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]; run by mlmmj
X-Mailinglist: opensuse-offtopic
List-Post: 
List-Help: 
List-Subscribe:  
List-Unsubscribe:  


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Re: [opensuse] Microsoft claims software like Linux violates its patents - May 28, 2007

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 04:59, frank nelson wrote:
>  thank you for bringing this article
> to my attention, so that I might be allowed an
> opportunity to correct a situation in which I was in
> error. Ya done good kid, and I truly appreciate it.
Very nice... 


:)





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Re: [opensuse] RE: Suitable File Systems

[M Harris]

On Monday 14 May 2007 03:27, Vince L wrote:
> Yes, he could fall under a proverbial bus. But there, I see a few more high
> profile names, who could carry it on, probably seamlessly - which I think
> is an actual success on Torvalds' part.
Yes... replicate and deligate... with supervision.  If the whole mess 
does 
not get passed on to the next generation everything was for naught.


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Re: [opensuse] A very interesting Virtualization Theory article

[Gordon Keehn]

John O'Gorman wrote:

On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 20:49 +0200, jef peeraer wrote:
  


John,

do you mean that in the future, we will be able to install a new 
distribution by just copying one image ?


That had not been my thought at all. But now that you mention it, I
suppose it is possible, provided that you reconfigured network
addresses, routing etc.
My intention was that while they were running on vm1, I could be
installing on vm2. Then when everything tested OK, just switch them over
to vm2. The next upgrade would then be on vm1, and so on.
  
   This sounds fine, as far as it goes, but sometime you're going to 
have to upgrade the host on which vm1 and vm2 run.



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Re: [opensuse] A very interesting Virtualization Theory article

[John O'Gorman]

On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 20:49 +0200, jef peeraer wrote:
> John O'Gorman schreef:
> > I have installed the Xen kernel successfully on openSUSE 10.2
> > 
> > But my attempts to use Yast to create VMs have not worked as I expected.
> > With the help of a friend I have been able to get VMs working and after
> > quite a lot of fiddling about get all the GNOME graphical desktop stuff
> > into working order. e.g. the Yast sinks back to text mode when
> > installing VMs.
> > 
> > Before wasting anyone else's time on this, can we expect the 10.2
> > version of Yast to be up to the job of fully creating and intalling VMs?
> > 
> > After the trouble I had with paravirtualised VMs I am shrinking from
> > attempting the fully virtualised ones (I have an IBM x3500 to try it
> > on).
> > 
> > My impression is that the openSUSE 10.2 Xen is also not up to date with
> > the Xen site. I expect that this is inevitable.
> > 
> > My ambition is that when I have mastered the use of Xen, I will upgrade
> > all my client sites to using it so that upgrades for version to version
> > of Linux may be less traumatic (for me) than they are now.
> > Is it better to use the source from the Xen site and install VMs by hand
> > using the basic commands vmcreate and so on, or persist with Yast?
> > 
> > Can anyone knowledgeable comment on these points?
> 
> John,
> 
> do you mean that in the future, we will be able to install a new 
> distribution by just copying one image ?
That had not been my thought at all. But now that you mention it, I
suppose it is possible, provided that you reconfigured network
addresses, routing etc.
My intention was that while they were running on vm1, I could be
installing on vm2. Then when everything tested OK, just switch them over
to vm2. The next upgrade would then be on vm1, and so on.
> i must say that  i've already read some parts about virtualisation, but 
> i thought a 64 bit system was needed for this, and my experiences with 
> 64 bit versions are not that satisfying...
No it does not need to be 64bit. The machine I am learning this stuff on
is 64 bit, but I have installed the 32 bit version of openSUSE 10.2 on
it. The Xen stuff does work, but the Yast support for it seems partially
broken.

regards
John O'Gorman
> 
> 
> jef peeraer

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Re: [opensuse] The Leopard Shows its Spots

[Randall R Schulz]

On Monday 14 May 2007 11:44, James Knott wrote:
> ...
>
> > http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/archives/2007/05/making_se
> >nse_of.html
>
> The comment I like is:
>
> "Of course, the funniest thing in all this is the alleged violation
> of the "garbage in, garbage out" rule. Microsoft, whose software is
> notoriously buggy, believes that the open soure community has somehow
> stolen that buggy code...and made much less buggy products out of it:

It's not well reasoned, though, is it? First of all, the claim is that 
patents were infringed upon, not that source code was stolen. Patents 
describe concepts. Code is a reduction to practice. Bugs are introduced 
in the reduction to practice, while they're not an aspect of the 
essential concept.

If Microsoft's implementation of these putatively misappropriated 
concepts is truly more bug-laden that those constituting the supposedly 
infringing open-source code, it only indicates that the practitioners 
at Microsoft (management included) are less skilled than those in the 
open-source community. That, or the open-source development model does 
yield better quality owing to wider analysis ("more eyeballs") and 
better feedback, including solutions and improvements contributed from 
outside the project's core development team. I'm inclined to believe 
both are true, though probably it's more the latter than the 
former--that is, open-source development intrinsically embodies the 
potential to produce better quality results than does a closed process.


> ...


Randall Schulz
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Re: [opensuse] Netgear Router RP614v2 ADSL setup

[Vince L]

On Monday 14 May 2007 16:27, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello List
>
> "just pop a small Cable/DSL router inbetween your host and the modem
> (standard ethernet connection for the host +security)."
> _
>
>  - that sounded easy! . . . but it is not working yet  :)
>
>  - how please to set this up? - my PC cannot "ping" the router at
> 192.168.0.1

Note your router IP address, it is on the 192.168.0.0/24 subnet. Google for 
the term subnet to understand the significance

> and the Netgear Install Wizard does NOT Start. 

Is this wizard on the router firmware? If it is from a CD, either from Netgear 
or your ISP, put it to one side and ignore it, you do not need it and you 
will only get grief by attempting to use it

>
> I have openSuSE 10.2 installed on my stand-alone PC
>
> my ethernet card is : 192.168.1.10, netmask 255.255.255.0, gateway
> 192.168.1.254 (the default address of the Speedtouch ADSL ModemST536i

Not your ethernet card IP address, it is on the 192.168.1.0/24 subnet. You 
will only be able to ping the router if they are on the same subnet, or if 
you have a route to the router via another router which is itself pingable. 
In short change the address of this card to be on the 192.168.0.0/24 subnet
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Re: [opensuse] Yast Update

[Susemail]

On Sunday 13 May 2007 22:33, Registration Account wrote:
> Boot from CD/DVD1 and choose Install> When you get to installation type
> select Other Options> Repair Installed System.
>
> Best I can do...sounds like your HDD has bombed on Track 0
>
> Scott
>
> susemail wrote:
> > I ran Yast Update today and rebooted.  Now I get these error messages:
> >
> > BIOS EDD facility v0.16 2004-Jun-25, 0 devices found
> > EDD information not available.
> > Loading edd
> > Loading fan
> > FATAL: Error inserting fan
> > (lib/modules/2.6.18.8-0.3-default/kernel/drivers/acpi/fan.ko: No such
> > device
> > Loading jbd
> > Loading mbcache
> > Loading ext3
> > Waiting for device /dev/sda1 to appear:..not
> > found--exiting to /bin/sh
> > Sh: no job control in this shell
> > $
> >
> > Everything worked fine before this update.  What can I do to correct
> > this?
> > --To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I re-ran the Yast Online Update and now the non-xen version of the kernel 
works on reboot. 

 I think since the xen kernel is listed first in Grub it's being used as the 
default kernel.  Is this true?

Thanks,
Jerome
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Re: [opensuse] A very interesting Virtualization Theory article

[jef peeraer]

John O'Gorman schreef:

I have installed the Xen kernel successfully on openSUSE 10.2

But my attempts to use Yast to create VMs have not worked as I expected.
With the help of a friend I have been able to get VMs working and after
quite a lot of fiddling about get all the GNOME graphical desktop stuff
into working order. e.g. the Yast sinks back to text mode when
installing VMs.

Before wasting anyone else's time on this, can we expect the 10.2
version of Yast to be up to the job of fully creating and intalling VMs?

After the trouble I had with paravirtualised VMs I am shrinking from
attempting the fully virtualised ones (I have an IBM x3500 to try it
on).

My impression is that the openSUSE 10.2 Xen is also not up to date with
the Xen site. I expect that this is inevitable.

My ambition is that when I have mastered the use of Xen, I will upgrade
all my client sites to using it so that upgrades for version to version
of Linux may be less traumatic (for me) than they are now.
Is it better to use the source from the Xen site and install VMs by hand
using the basic commands vmcreate and so on, or persist with Yast?

Can anyone knowledgeable comment on these points?


John,

do you mean that in the future, we will be able to install a new 
distribution by just copying one image ?
i must say that  i've already read some parts about virtualisation, but 
i thought a 64 bit system was needed for this, and my experiences with 
64 bit versions are not that satisfying...



jef peeraer
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Re: [opensuse] The Leopard Shows its Spots

[James Knott]

M Harris wrote:

On Sunday 13 May 2007 21:20, M Harris wrote:
  

Well, the other shoe has dropped. The leopard in Redmond is really
desperate...  


MICRO4OFT'S OPEN SOURCE FETISH

	This is another take on the same theme... this guy blogs that M$ will never 
sue because they can't afford it... read his three reasons why.  This guy's 
ire is really up... 


http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/archives/2007/05/making_sense_of.html



  

The comment I like is:

"Of course, the funniest thing in all this is the alleged violation of 
the "garbage in, garbage out" rule. Microsoft, whose software is 
notoriously buggy, believes that the open soure community has somehow 
stolen that buggy code...and made much less buggy products out of it:


   The Redmond behemoth asserts that one reason free software is of
   such high quality is that it violates more than 200 of Microsoft's
   patents. And as a mature company facing unfavorable market trends
   and fearsome competitors like Google, Microsoft is pulling no
   punches: It wants royalties. If the company gets its way, free
   software won't be free anymore.

If at all true, Microsoft should be begging the open source community to 
teach it how to spin gold from Microsoft's straw, rather than 
castigating it for alleged theft. Microsoft knows how to put a pretty 
face on a pig, but it has yet to figure out how to fix the pig."


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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

[Felix Miata]

On 2007/05/14 14:57 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. apparently typed:

> The Monday 2007-05-14 at 13:51 +0200, Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett wrote:

>> I still think LATER is better than WONTFIX.

> Me too. I think you should drop that "WONTFIX" from the list of available 
> options, and use things like "can't fix" or "later". "Will not fix" feels 
> not polite, kind of "I do not want to fix it". Depending on who receives 
> it, they might be, er... pissed.

Even though LATER is used as a "resolution", it is not a real resolution,
but merely a label. Priority and/or target date (even one that is
effectively unknown or infinity) for dealing with the issue should be used
instead of the non-resolution LATER, which should be purged from the system.
-- 
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ever brighter till the full light of day."  Proverbs 4:18 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

[Felix Miata]

On 2007/05/14 14:47 (GMT+0200) Stefan Hundhammer apparently typed:

> As for others who raised the question if we get paid by the number of bug 
> reports we get rid of: No. That would obviously not make any sense, too.

That was me, becomes sometimes the explanations given to rationalize a
reclassification of wontfix make it seem like there could be no other true
explanation.

> But Bugzilla is an important tool for us. So it makes sense for us to resolve 
> issues that can easily be resolved before they clutter our list of active 
> bugs too much.

Dealing with clutter is an issue itself. It's nice and simple just to
eliminate it, but sometimes dealing with it in another manner is more
prudent. Fussing over clutter here is majoring in minors.

> It's also a question of honesty. While we could accumulate a large number of 
> bugs and pretend that we will fix them at some point, wouldn't you rather 
> have us be honest and clearly say if an issue does not have the slightest 
> chance of getting fixed in a forseeable time frame?

I think there are different ways to deal with the priorities, and the
finality of the WONTFIX classification (e.g. "will never be fixed") is
sometimes going just a bit too far.

Each bug has a "Priority" field. I don't file bugs often enough to remember,
but I believe this field is left blank by default in Novell's Bugzilla so
that the assignee or his superior can give it one. It seems reasonable to
use the priority field for its intended purpose. A selection that indicates
no or minimal priority on bugs that should or might be fixable and Novell
would like to see fixed but that Novell considers either too obscure or too
difficult given current conditions to actively pursue for the foreseeable
future can be a better way to handle many bugs.

IOW, some bugs should be left open instead of resolved (wontfix), even if
for no other reason (for some of them) to indicate a known issue. Upstream
support or a dependency that previously wasn't there might arrive that
changes the ease or time requirement from difficult or impossible to
something better. Or a new resource might become available for which working
particular bug(s) might be well suited.

Mozilla.org doesn't wontfix bugs just because they're hard to fix or nobody
with time to do so wants to do so. But, often on Novell's Bugzilla that's
exactly what it looks like is happening. Further, it (still) has that smell,
because as often happens when some big company (e.g. Novell) buys some other
company (e.g. SUSE), the "we bought this to make money with it" acquisition
management attitude generally brings with it cutbacks (economizing - e.g.
fewer programmers than the acquired company had when purchased). If SUSE is
truly OpenSUSE, then inadequate resources within Novell should not routinely
be justification to use "resource availability insufficient" to justify a
wontfix classification.

I think it is more honest to leave a bug open, as long as it has a realistic
priority level affixed, that development team management would even
minimally like to see fixed, than to have the permanancy of "will never be
fixed" stamped on an ostensibly worthy and possibly fixable bug.
-- 
"The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining
ever brighter till the full light of day."  Proverbs 4:18 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
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Re: [opensuse] The Leopard Shows its Spots

[John Andersen]

On Monday 14 May 2007, G T Smith wrote:
> MSs major cash cow is the OEM distribution of the OS to the consumer
> sector,

MS's major cash cow is MS Office, not Vista or any version of windows.

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_
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Re: [opensuse] Re: Where is perl-YAML?

[Josef Wolf]

On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 03:45:42PM -0400, Jonathan Arnold wrote:
> Josef Wolf wrote:
> > On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 02:37:31PM -0400, Jonathan Arnold wrote:
> >> Josef Wolf wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> In 10.2, I'm missing the perl-YAML package.  It was included in 10.1,
> >>> but seems not to be part of 10.2 anymore.  Is there any reason why it
> >>> was removed and where to find it?
> >> Just run YaST and search for YAML. Seems to be easily available in mine.
> > 
> > Thanks for the quick reply, Jonathan.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, yast can't find anything when I search for "yaml".  Why
> > is it working for you but not for me?
> 
> Maybe because I installed from the DVD and you installed from the CD?

I instaleld from DVD, too.

> Did you follow these instructions about adding other package sources:
> 
> http://opensuse-community.org/Package_Sources/10.2

Yes, that helped!  Thanks!
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[opensuse] unable to shutdown machine: does not shut down but resumes immediately

[Julien Michielsen]

I'd like to shutdown my machine and use the suspend fascility so that my
machine restarts faster and continues where I was before shutting down
my machine. However, when I click the cameleon-icon, and then choose
Leave (opening the choises Shutdown, Restart, Suspend to Disk and
Suspend to Ram) and subsequently "Suspend to Disk". This only gives me a
short message like "preparing to hibernate", and then immediately
restarts like nothing happened. I would like to shutdown the machine,
however.
Lines I added to /etc/suspend.conf:
HIBERNATE_MODE=shutdown
shutdown method=platform

One line I modified in /etc/pm/config:
HIBERNATE_METHOD={userspace,kernel}

but this did not improve the shutdown at all: the machine briefly shows
"preparing to hybernate", goes black, and does not shut down but shows
resuming . . .
and restarts where it was. Is it not possible to suspend for a shutdown,
and restart the next day?
Thanks
-- 
Julien Michielsen




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[opensuse] samba & adding users on the fly

[Jack Malone]

>From time to time I have to add users to the samba server during the work
day. What I do now is after adding them to linux user then going an adding
them to samba user via webmin an setting their password, I then have to
restart samba server to make the changes take effect. I have to get all
users to close out all files on samba server before I do this. Is there a
way to reset samba so that the new user is added that I do not have to get
all the other users to get off so that all open files are closed. It would
be nice to just do this without having to get everything to close out all
open files on the network. I hope this makes sense to you. 

Thanks 

Jack Malone 

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[opensuse] FW: IPTABLES

[Tage Danielsen]

-
Hello

I have a Suse linux server in a privat net 10.10.10.240 and a public adress i 
mapped to that adress.
I like to make a windows machine with another privat adress, eks 10.10.10.241 
and I like to make a nat on port 3389 from 10.10.10.240 to 10.10.10.241
will somebody give me the setup for this? I have tryed but it did not work.

/tage


[Message truncated. Tap Edit->Mark for Download to get remaining portion.]

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Re: [opensuse] How do new releases get into the factory?

[Greg Freemyer]

On 5/14/07, Marcus Meissner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 11:26:31AM -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> All,
>
> I have pulled some factory rpms, but I have no idea how the opensuse
> team/community becomes aware that new releases are available and that
> a new rpm should be made available.
>
> Specifically, rdiff-backup did a release in the last few days that has
> a feature I would like to utilize.  I'm familiar enough with the
> process to just pull it down for myself, but I thought it would be
> better if I could somehow trigger the build service to make it
> available for all.

Several ways:

- the package maintainers read the project mailinglists and see
  the new releases

- We have some magic scripts(tm) that parse Freshmeat and SF notices
  and send package update notices to the packagers

- Someone opens a Bugzilla Enhancement Request for the package maintainer.

  This is the approach you should use if you see something outdated.


Please note that not all packagers update their packages ASAP, especially
if there are several releases per month they usually only do it occasionaly.

Ciao, Marcus


Thanks,

Even though rdiff-backup v1.1.10 only just came out, I went ahead and
filed a bugzilla because the previous version (v1.0.5) from 6 months
ago had not yet made it into the factory either.

Greg
--
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The Norcross Group
Forensics for the 21st Century
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Re: [opensuse] First we're stealing, now we're dying

[G T Smith]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Pueblo Native wrote:
> I guess there was a poison pill in those patents we pilfered:
> 
> http://www.bangkokpost.com/090507_Database/09May2007_data05.php
> 
> Alliterations aside, the only "myth" is in Hilf's own brain.  There may

Having read link, my thought is this surely should read 'the myth is
Hilfs own brain' :-)

> be some developers out there who wore tye-dye t-shirts, travel in
> Winnebago vans, and had a taste for the tree, but there were just as
> many buttoned up developers that have never listened to the Grateful
> Dead once.
> 
> And I love this line from that article: Hilf said that the Linux
> phenomenon had nothing to do with Linux, but rather it had a lot to do
> with Apache, MySQL and PHP. It was those applications which pulled Linux
> up with it, the "Visual Basic of open source."
> 
> 

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGSIjKasN0sSnLmgIRAkIzAJsHqGP5c0tKIaz+QY5QKl4Tv0FqEgCffi06
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=CRVb
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Re: [opensuse] How do new releases get into the factory?

[Marcus Meissner]

On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 11:26:31AM -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> All,
> 
> I have pulled some factory rpms, but I have no idea how the opensuse
> team/community becomes aware that new releases are available and that
> a new rpm should be made available.
> 
> Specifically, rdiff-backup did a release in the last few days that has
> a feature I would like to utilize.  I'm familiar enough with the
> process to just pull it down for myself, but I thought it would be
> better if I could somehow trigger the build service to make it
> available for all.

Several ways:

- the package maintainers read the project mailinglists and see
  the new releases

- We have some magic scripts(tm) that parse Freshmeat and SF notices
  and send package update notices to the packagers

- Someone opens a Bugzilla Enhancement Request for the package maintainer.
  
  This is the approach you should use if you see something outdated.


Please note that not all packagers update their packages ASAP, especially
if there are several releases per month they usually only do it occasionaly.

Ciao, Marcus
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[opensuse] Netgear Router RP614v2 ADSL setup

[riccardo35]

Hello List

"just pop a small Cable/DSL router inbetween your host and the modem 
(standard ethernet connection for the host +security)."
_

 - that sounded easy! . . . but it is not working yet  :)

 - how please to set this up? - my PC cannot "ping" the router at 
192.168.0.1 and the Netgear Install Wizard does NOT Start.

I have openSuSE 10.2 installed on my stand-alone PC

my ethernet card is : 192.168.1.10, netmask 255.255.255.0, gateway 
192.168.1.254 (the default address of the Speedtouch ADSL ModemST536i

...

Do I need to load a Module &/or install Firmware ?? & How do I need to 
adjust Firewall thru Yast ?


Thanks
 
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[opensuse] How do new releases get into the factory?

[Greg Freemyer]

All,

I have pulled some factory rpms, but I have no idea how the opensuse
team/community becomes aware that new releases are available and that
a new rpm should be made available.

Specifically, rdiff-backup did a release in the last few days that has
a feature I would like to utilize.  I'm familiar enough with the
process to just pull it down for myself, but I thought it would be
better if I could somehow trigger the build service to make it
available for all.

Greg
--
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The Norcross Group
Forensics for the 21st Century
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[opensuse] sound error

[William Biggs]

Thank you for all your help I got it to work I had it under the user 

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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

[Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett]

On Monday 14 May 2007 14:57:24 Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Glad to hear that. Still, some bugs receive no comment for months, a brief
> note, even to say, "noted, but too busy" would be nice and encourage
> reporting. For instance, I reported some minor issues that didn't get a
> comment. I understand they are minor, but I don't feel like reporting all
> I find because of that lack of feedback.

You are right. Sometimes just changing them to "accepted" from "new", and ping 
once in a while would help. But sometimes this happens the other way around, 
needinfo that never gets answered :-P

-- 
Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett  
Novell :: SUSE R&D, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg
GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
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Re: [opensuse] ati drivers

[Petr Klíma]

Have you ever tried to display radeon man page? You'll see "2d only"
beside most newer chips. And yes, that's current state on 7.1 Xorg.

With glxgears (being definitely non-benchmark), you can easily achieve
3000 fps with pure software rendering.

I was talking about laziness in windows redrawal and so on. Firefox is
especially slow, making user experience quite unnacceptable.

On my IBM T41 notebook with Radeon 7500, 2D experience with radeon
driver is way better - even Composition is done in hardware and at least
window transparency is handled by hardware and perfectly smooth. I was
very surprised to find that such old card can handle this.

Cheers, Tosuja

BandiPat wrote:
> Then I don't believe you got something setup correctly.  I've got a 
> 9600, 9200 & 7500 running xorg radeon drivers giving something like 
> 2-3000 fps easily for 3D with glxgears!  At least one of those is the 
> 300 series you mention and I think the 9200 might be or a 280, don't 
> remember.  I've used the ATI drivers before, but with so little 
> advantage it gives, I just don't go to all the trouble.  YMMV
> 
> The 9800 should be well supported as well by xorg.  What version of xorg 
> are you using presently?  If it's 6.9 or older, the support won't be as 
> good.

-- 
Petr "Tosuja" Klíma
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.tosuja.info
ICQ: 52057532

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Re: [opensuse] How to add contacts in Kopete?

[Pueblo Native]

Michael Schueller wrote:
> Am Montag, 14. Mai 2007 schrieb Johnny Ernst Nielsen:
>   
>> Mandag 14 maj 2007 12:48 kvad Johnny Ernst Nielsen:
>> 
>>> Kopete 0.12.3 (Under KDE 3.5.5 "release 45.4" openSUSE 10.2)
>>>
>>> [Kopete will not add ICQ contact to new ICQ account]
>>>   
>> I just found this:
>>
>> > 
>> That is my exact problem!
>>
>> I can not find a similar bug report with either KDE or openSUSE.
>>
>> Does anyone know a workaround, or have suggestions for
>> workarounds?
>>
>> Best regards :o)
>>
>> Johnny :o)
>> 
>
> How about trying licq (from Packman) or gaim ?
>
> Micha
>   
Or pidgin, the successor to gaim.
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Re: [opensuse] Many thanks

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The Monday 2007-05-14 at 09:33 +0100, Dr Gavin Tabor wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> Just a note to say; thanks for all the help I have received from the
> mailing list over the last couple of weeks. I subscribed to help me
> resolve some problems with my new installation (10.2), and now I've got
> the problems sorted out I can't cope with the volume of mail coming
> through, so I have to unsubscribe now - however I didn't feel I could go
> without saying "thanks guys"!!!

Welcome! :-)

- -- 
Cheers,
   Carlos E. R.

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Re: [opensuse] ati drivers

[BandiPat]

On Monday 14 May 2007, Petr Klíma wrote:
> Well, for my Radeon 9800 the results with open source driver is
> appaling - damn slow responses to everything. Closed source driver is
> working OK (despite it's known weaknesses). It's because R300
> family is not supported very well in open-source driver.
>
> Tosuja
>
> BandiPat wrote:
> > On Monday 14 May 2007, William Biggs wrote:
> >> I have a ati radron 9550 how do I install the drivers ? Sorry
> >> about spelling .
> >
> > ==
> >
> > Why bother?  You'll get equally good results from using the open
> > drivers built into XOrg already with the radeon module!  I think
> > you'll find that the 3D speed and operation are very nearly equal. 
> > That card is well supported by XOrg, so should give you great
> > results.
>
> --
> Petr "Tosuja" Klíma
> Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web: www.tosuja.info
> ICQ: 52057532

===

Then I don't believe you got something setup correctly.  I've got a 
9600, 9200 & 7500 running xorg radeon drivers giving something like 
2-3000 fps easily for 3D with glxgears!  At least one of those is the 
300 series you mention and I think the 9200 might be or a 280, don't 
remember.  I've used the ATI drivers before, but with so little 
advantage it gives, I just don't go to all the trouble.  YMMV

The 9800 should be well supported as well by xorg.  What version of xorg 
are you using presently?  If it's 6.9 or older, the support won't be as 
good.

regards,
Lee
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Re: [opensuse] How to add contacts in Kopete?

[Michael Schueller]

Am Montag, 14. Mai 2007 schrieb Johnny Ernst Nielsen:
> Mandag 14 maj 2007 12:48 kvad Johnny Ernst Nielsen:
> > Kopete 0.12.3 (Under KDE 3.5.5 "release 45.4" openSUSE 10.2)
> >
> >[Kopete will not add ICQ contact to new ICQ account]
>
> I just found this:
>
> >
>
> That is my exact problem!
>
> I can not find a similar bug report with either KDE or openSUSE.
>
> Does anyone know a workaround, or have suggestions for
> workarounds?
>
> Best regards :o)
>
> Johnny :o)

How about trying licq (from Packman) or gaim ?

Micha
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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

[Druid]

First let me explain the WONTFIX situation.




Stefan,

Dont waste your time with it. I know its precious time, cause you get
yast going. It was clear for everybody in that thread in bugzilla the
reason you gave. Some people want to be stubborn and ignore they are
causing problems, namely alexey.

Next time please try to ignore hist attitude, he does that quite often
and the result is him wasting the project peoples time and resources,
because he has a thing on giving orders to people, spedially if he
doesnt understand wtf is going on or if he doesnt have enough
information to judge the situation.

If you keep wasting your time with this, we will lose the game...

regards

Marcio
---
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Re: [opensuse] RE Processors

[George Osvald]

On Monday 14 May 2007, jpff wrote:
> I do not know that it is KDE that is the problem -- personally I do
> not use KDE or Gnome -- but the machine in question has a number of
> oddities
>
> 1: Cursor kept disappearing; changed to software cursor and now OK.
> Seems that was a hardware bug on the motherboard
>
> 2: xdm or kdm will not run directly from booting in level5.  Every
> character typed causes the screen resolution to change.  Booting at
> level3, and running kdm from a room window seems to overcome this!
>
> 3: Audacity always crashes on exit, and on use of a plugin or effect.
> This works OK on my AMD64x2 on my desk, except that spectral display
> fails on all 64bit AMD machines in the latest version (OK on last
> version)
>
> Those are the most annoying things so far.
>
> I should repeat that I run another AMD64x2 and my home machine is AMD64
> as well (pre-dual core), and apart from the loss of flash in browsers
> is no problem. And the only loss in flash is not having the graphs for
> the cricket matches.

I am running SuSe 10.2 on Athlon 64 X2 Duo core and the only thing that does 
not work properly is Firefox. Flash, Java, Real they all work in both 
Konqueror and Opera.


> ==John ffitch



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George Osvald
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http://www.okstudio.com.au
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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

[Druid]

On 5/14/07, Carlos E. R. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The Monday 2007-05-14 at 13:51 +0200, Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett wrote:

> I still think LATER is better than WONTFIX.

Me too. I think you should drop that "WONTFIX" from the list of available
options, and use things like "can't fix" or "later". "Will not fix" feels


why, its pretty standard for lots (all?) of bugzillas? The explanation
was crystal clear in the comments... only onew person didnt get it
(who?)...

Stop giving silly work to people, they have plenty already.

Marcio
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Re: [opensuse] Help with graphics card

[Mike McMullin]

On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 10:07 +0200, Erik Jakobsen wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I have a blown Nvidia FX5200 card on my openSuSE 10.2 install.
> 
> The computer is set up to use Nvidia per the info found in opensuse.
> 
> I put in another graohics card marked:
> 
> MVGA-NVTNT2MAL 16MB
> 
> Even if I think, that the letters can indicate that it's also an Nividia 
> card, the 10.2 cannot start up the x-server.
> 
> Can anybody tell me what I can do now ?.

  At bootup look for the options line at the bottom of the screen and
put the following on it:
init 3
  This will get you single user no-graphical mode.  Log in as root.
Simplest way is to invoke sax2 and redo your video card configuration.
Then use:
init 5
to switch to normal run level with x-server running.  You can also
manually edit the 
/etc/X11/xorg.cong file and change the line with the nvidia module name
to nv, save and exit, and then issue the init 5, command and you should
have your gui back.

  HTH

  Mike

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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

[Stefan Hundhammer]

See also

http://en.opensuse.org/Bug_Status_WONTFIX

linked from

http://en.opensuse.org/Bug_Reporting_FAQ#Bug_Status_WONTFIX


CU
-- 
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YaST2 Development
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Nürnberg, Germany
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Re: [opensuse] ndiswrapper Help Appreciated

[Mike McMullin]

On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 19:19 -0700, Jerry Houston wrote:
> Mike McMullin wrote:
> >   IIRC Atheros is better served by mad-wifi.  Go the the opensuse site
> > and search for mad-wifi and/or Atheros.  There is adequate info there to
> > allow you to get it up and running under 10.2.
> 
> Indeed, it seems so.  Thanks to everyone for your help with this.  And 
> thanks to Atheros for opening their specs so a driver could be created.
> 
> I've gotten the module installed, and at least partially working, 
> because the NetworkManager applet is able to display the available 
> wireless networks.  When I try to connect to mine, though, it keeps 
> asking for security info, despite that I've given it a correct WEP type 
> and value.

  Are you sure about that?  There are 3 WEP options when you try and
connect.  Try cycling through them, and note that you use matching case
on the letters.  Also I think at this point KWallet is going to fire up
to hold the info.  May-hap you could give us a more concise view of what
is occouring.

> Still, this is farther than I've ever gotten before with Linux on this 
> laptop.  Once I get the security issue solved, I should be able to do 
> real things with Linux on this machine.

  I've been using my laptop when I get the chance.  One thing that I
have noticed is that there are certain venues (Hilton Hotel's in the
states to name one) that offer free wireless, but seem to require you to
use IE to authenticate with.

> Thanks again!

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[opensuse] Re: keyboard keymaps [solved]

[Stuart Murray-Smith]

Hmmm... please help! :-)

KDE starts up, but keyboard settings don't seem to initialise ie
doesn't record keystrokes in login fields etc. Can use keyboard in
console mode though. Tried setting keyboard settings in YaST, but
doesn't affect the keyboard settings in any desktop managers (as
expected). Unfortunately I can't use SaX2, and a point-and-click as
root doesn't open 'keyboard settings' window in Yast2 either.

I think the next best thing is to vim the config file, if someone
could pls point out the KDE config file for this.


Was able to load SaX2 in YaST's 'config keyboard' embedded in 'config
graphics card' interface :-)

Have a gr8 day!

Smee again



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Re: [opensuse] How to add contacts in Kopete?

[Johnny Ernst Nielsen]

Mandag 14 maj 2007 12:48 kvad Johnny Ernst Nielsen:
> Kopete 0.12.3 (Under KDE 3.5.5 "release 45.4" openSUSE 10.2)
>
>[Kopete will not add ICQ contact to new ICQ account]

I just found this:



That is my exact problem!

I can not find a similar bug report with either KDE or openSUSE.

Does anyone know a workaround, or have suggestions for workarounds?

Best regards :o)

Johnny :o)
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Re: [opensuse] ati drivers

[Petr Klíma]

Well, for my Radeon 9800 the results with open source driver is appaling
- damn slow responses to everything. Closed source driver is working OK
(despite it's known weaknesses). It's because R300 family is not
supported very well in open-source driver.

Tosuja

BandiPat wrote:
> On Monday 14 May 2007, William Biggs wrote:
>> I have a ati radron 9550 how do I install the drivers ? Sorry about
>> spelling .
> 
> ==
> 
> Why bother?  You'll get equally good results from using the open drivers 
> built into XOrg already with the radeon module!  I think you'll find 
> that the 3D speed and operation are very nearly equal.  That card is 
> well supported by XOrg, so should give you great results.

-- 
Petr "Tosuja" Klíma
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.tosuja.info
ICQ: 52057532

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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The Monday 2007-05-14 at 13:51 +0200, Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett wrote:

> I still think LATER is better than WONTFIX.

Me too. I think you should drop that "WONTFIX" from the list of available 
options, and use things like "can't fix" or "later". "Will not fix" feels 
not polite, kind of "I do not want to fix it". Depending on who receives 
it, they might be, er... pissed.

> 
> Still, from the community I have a couple of times received incredible bug 
> reports, with lot of information, logs, fix suggestions, that basically 
> provided enough information to fix some major bug in reduced time. 
> Coincidentally, such reports are written in a nice and kind way, even if they 
> are major bugs and the community member has to invest lot of energy to help 
> the developer to fix the bug.

Glad to hear that. Still, some bugs receive no comment for months, a brief 
note, even to say, "noted, but too busy" would be nice and encourage 
reporting. For instance, I reported some minor issues that didn't get a 
comment. I understand they are minor, but I don't feel like reporting all 
I find because of that lack of feedback.

- -- 
Cheers,
   Carlos E. R.

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Re: [opensuse] Build Service Index or Search?

[Carlos E. R.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


The Monday 2007-05-14 at 12:20 +0100, Benji Weber wrote:

> 
> Neither found more, in each case the top 20 results only were shown.
> The results in the main repository were being ranked higher because
> they had more search term matches in the package name, the summary,
> and the files contained in the package. Hence the "openoffice" package
> from the build service repository was being dropped off the bottom.


Ah, I see. The search finds many, but only the top found are shown.


> btw there are over 300 packages matching openoffice either in the
> name, filelists, or summary.
> 
> I have adjusted the ranking so this case will work better
> 
> http://benjiweber.co.uk:8080/webpin/index.jsp?searchTerm=openoffice
> 
> will now show results from all 3 repositories. 

Yes, I just tried.

> Also things like
> 
> http://benjiweber.co.uk:8080/webpin/index.jsp?searchTerm=nx
> 
> will work better
> 
> Adding result paging would be possible, but I don't know of anyone who
> actually bothers to look at multiple pages of results so it's probably
> better to improve the ranking system where you spot problems like
> this.

A toggle to show all results? Or to show top 20, top 50, top 120, say?

> In the future with the software portal project we'll have a better
> metric - user rating to apply to search results.

It is indeed a very usefull tool. I have been following the mesages about 
it for some time, but never actually tried till today. I hope to see it 
growing ;-)

- -- 
Cheers,
   Carlos E. R.
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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

[Stefan Hundhammer]

[Sorry for the disturbed threading, don't have the original mail at hand with 
proper headers with msg ID etc. to reply to]

On 12 May 2007 10:14:25, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
> Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX ?

This question, by itself, is perfectly valid. Explanation follows.

The subject line, however, is offensive at least in its closing part: "due to 
their laziness" is not acceptable. More about that below.


First let me explain the WONTFIX situation.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/page.cgi?id=fields.html#resolution
explains WONTFIX only in very short terms:

"WONTFIX  The problem described is a bug which will never be fixed."

That means that WONTFIX acknowledges that a bug as reported is indeed a valid 
bug. But it also says that it will not be fixed: Not in the near future (that 
would be status ACCEPTED), not in some future release (that would be LATER), 
never.

It means that whoever is responsible for the piece of software against which 
the bug was reported has examined the situation and evaluated possible 
approaches to fix the problem. But the conclusion of that process was that 
the bug will not be fixed.

Of course, this is unsatisfactory for a user who took the trouble to make a 
bug report. Agreed. But there are also other considerations to take into 
account.

In the general case (not being specific about the bug report you quoted later 
in your posting), that can be:


(1) There is no solution at all. 

Even though this happens only rarely, it can happen. Typically, this is the 
result of a previous conscious decision (in the design or implementation of 
the software) in which the lesser of two evils had been chosen, and the 
trade-off that had been taken back then is what was reported as the bug that 
got closed as WONTFIX.


(2) The problem could be fixed, but the cost for the fix (the amount of work 
involved) would be enormous. It would be an economic nightmare to do the fix.

This would really be a status TOOEXPENSIVE that Bugzilla does not provide.

In an ideal world, no cost whatsoever would be too expensive. But we all live 
in a less-than-ideal world, and so economy has to be taken into 
consideration. This is not only important for us (SUSE/Novell) as the 
distribution makers (or in general for the company who has to pay for the 
development hours), it is also important for the users: Since there is only a 
finite number of developers and thus of development hours, hours spent on 
fixing a bug cannot be spent on developing something new or even just on 
fixing other bugs that may be more important.


(3) The problem could be fixed, but the fix would make the software much more 
complex and thus much less maintainable and possibly also much less stable.

This is partly no. (2) again, partly another aspect users benefit a lot from: 
Software stability. You don't want to compromise stability for issues that 
are not really important.


(4) The problem is in another piece of software this software depends on, but 
that other software is being developed and maintained elsewhere. The fix has 
to be done upstream.

Now we as the distribution makers do make some fixes in software that is 
developed elsewhere. But that is limited to minor fixes. It clearly does not 
involve major rewrites of upstream software. Those rewrites would go to waste 
with the next upstream release.

Sometimes we do even that and send the patch upstream, hoping that it will be 
accepted and incorporated into the next upstream release. But this requires 
that the upstream developers are very cooperative, and that they are not 
already working on another solution our fix would be incompatible to.


Whichever reasoning might be behind resolving a bug as WONTFIX, it deserves a 
clear explanation the bug reporter can understand. This is what we owe to 
somebody who goes through the trouble of reporting a bug. This is our moral 
obligation to the bug reporter.


> They should stop being lazy all the day. 
...
> The lazy number one is: marcio ferreira and Stefan Hundhammer

This I take offense of. This is very personal and unjustified. You are 
attacking Marco Ferreira (another community member, by the way, not a SUSE or 
Novell employee) personally. Worse, not only are you doing that in a public 
forum, you are also doing that in a forum different from the original 
discussion (the bug report) so the involved people might never even get to 
know that they were attacked.

Now you may not be aware of some of the things I tried to explain above, but 
calling people you don't even know lazy is clearly going over the top.


> That is not a feature-request but a bug.

We were fully aware of that and treated it accordingly.
  
> link:
> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=264716

The bug report contains an explanation why the bug was closed as WONTFIX. I 
considered the explanation adequate:

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=264716#c11  

"The Qt-based YasT2 control center is a 

Re: [opensuse] Re: Recording webradio

[michael norman]

On Sunday 13 May 2007 20:50:42 Jonathan Arnold wrote:
> Cristea Bogdan wrote:
> > With my mms stream it doesn't seem to work. However interesting
> > solution. Thanks anyway.
> > Bogdan
>
> Check out Audacity:
>
> http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
>
> --
krecord will do it as well..


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[opensuse] keyboard keymaps

[Stuart Murray-Smith]

Hi list

Hmmm... please help! :-)

KDE starts up, but keyboard settings don't seem to initialise ie
doesn't record keystrokes in login fields etc. Can use keyboard in
console mode though. Tried setting keyboard settings in YaST, but
doesn't affect the keyboard settings in any desktop managers (as
expected). Unfortunately I can't use SaX2, and a point-and-click as
root doesn't open 'keyboard settings' window in Yast2 either.

I think the next best thing is to vim the config file, if someone
could pls point out the KDE config file for this.

TiA, and have a great day!

Regards,

Stuart
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[opensuse] First we're stealing, now we're dying

[Pueblo Native]

I guess there was a poison pill in those patents we pilfered:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/090507_Database/09May2007_data05.php

Alliterations aside, the only "myth" is in Hilf's own brain.  There may
be some developers out there who wore tye-dye t-shirts, travel in
Winnebago vans, and had a taste for the tree, but there were just as
many buttoned up developers that have never listened to the Grateful
Dead once.

And I love this line from that article: Hilf said that the Linux
phenomenon had nothing to do with Linux, but rather it had a lot to do
with Apache, MySQL and PHP. It was those applications which pulled Linux
up with it, the "Visual Basic of open source."


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