Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Harisfazillah Jamel]

Another suggestion,  we can them is to publish HOWTO or documentation.
For example this HOWTO is produce by intern attach to my team.

http://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-install-managing-news-on-ubuntu

Its help him to learn OSS and gain experience. And its a motivation
for him to contribute more to Howtoforge when its get publish and
broadcast all over Internet in Linux.com Debian how to.

Tersenyum dia... :)

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Boh Yap  wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Cracked the LPI exam.."  <-- this just hi-lights the sad case with
> Malaysia. We seem to have a very bad attitude to learning, its not to
> acquire knowledge, its just so that we can pass the exam, as said here
>
>> ". so we can pass it easily.. YES!"
>
> What about hard work and experience, naah,... "terlalu susah"
>
> And when they get a job, they will screw things up. With
> attitudes/aptitude like this, will M'sia ever get to produce Nobel
> Prize winners? I doubt it.
>
> On the other hand, if there is a hands on course or apprentice-ship
> program, shirkers like this would easily be exposed, they are the ones
> that do the least and less willing to help and share. That's why I
> have little faith in exams & certification.
>
> On the other hand, these guys may only be joking and they are already
> gurus in what they do... but it is in bad taste in a discussion on
> this thread talking about attitudes towards gaining skills. So they
> deserve the lambasting.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Soire Meira  wrote:
>> wow.. i like it.. look like so easy to 'crack' this LPI.. so we can pass it
>> easily.. YES!
>>
>> 2011/4/4 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar 
>>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>> P/S: I heard some people said they had 'cracked' the LPI exam program to
>>> make them pass it. Rumor only. No proof was shown to me though.
>>>
>>> But there are also those who had "kaw tim" with certain examination lab to
>>> "buka buku" during exam. Even googled it.
>>>
>>> On 04/04/2011 09:26 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel wrote:

 We JV with universities to do OSS certification as add on to their
 universities program.

 Industry will get what they want, certified graduates and experience with
 OSS.

 and GOV get their numbers. :)
>>>
>>>

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Muhd Syazwan Md Khusaini]

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Boh Yap  wrote:

> hi,
>
> "Cracked the LPI exam.."  <-- this just hi-lights the sad case with
> Malaysia. We seem to have a very bad attitude to learning, its not to
> acquire knowledge, its just so that we can pass the exam, as said here
>
> > ". so we can pass it easily.. YES!"
>
> What about hard work and experience, naah,... "terlalu susah"
>
> And when they get a job, they will screw things up. With
> attitudes/aptitude like this, will M'sia ever get to produce Nobel
> Prize winners? I doubt it.
>
> On the other hand, if there is a hands on course or apprentice-ship
> program, shirkers like this would easily be exposed, they are the ones
> that do the least and less willing to help and share. That's why I
> have little faith in exams & certification.
>
> On the other hand, these guys may only be joking and they are already
> gurus in what they do... but it is in bad taste in a discussion on
> this thread talking about attitudes towards gaining skills. So they
> deserve the lambasting.
>

+1

>
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Soire Meira  wrote:
> > wow.. i like it.. look like so easy to 'crack' this LPI.. so we can pass
> it
> > easily.. YES!
> >
> > 2011/4/4 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar 
> >>
> >> Agreed.
> >>
> >> P/S: I heard some people said they had 'cracked' the LPI exam program to
> >> make them pass it. Rumor only. No proof was shown to me though.
> >>
> >> But there are also those who had "kaw tim" with certain examination lab
> to
> >> "buka buku" during exam. Even googled it.
> >>
> >> On 04/04/2011 09:26 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We JV with universities to do OSS certification as add on to their
> >>> universities program.
> >>>
> >>> Industry will get what they want, certified graduates and experience
> with
> >>> OSS.
> >>>
> >>> and GOV get their numbers. :)
> >>
> >> --
> >> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
> >> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
> >>
> >> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> --
> > Maui Sabily 2011
> > GPG KeyID: DBDA3074
> > GPG Fingerprint: 3CCE D281 C894 4FB0 3D22 2141 75C6 E41F DBDA 3074
> >
> > Soire Meira 2008 - 2011
> > EascobaNET, Inc 2006 - 2010
> > Ch0kL@Thack 2002
> > PaleoY2K 1998 - 2000
> >
> > http://www.sabily.my
> > http://www.sabily-my.tk
> >
> > Developer:
> > Sabily NetBook Remix 10.10 Al-Quds
> > Sabily Zakat Calc 0.2-1 Beta (Debian)
> > Asmawi Office 0.1 Alpha (Webase Presentiton)
> > Soire TV & Radio (Windows Only - continue version on Linux)
> > BrutuSamaDia (Remote Desktop Penetration Testing)
> > Mauiware.AYU.0.6 (Virus Cleanner & Get Back Hidden Files)
> >
> > Malicious of Dark Knight - "Hack To Learn, Don't Learn To Hack"
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
> > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
> >
> > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> #---
> regds,
>
> Boh Heong, Yap
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
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>
> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>



-- 
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http://about.me/syazwan/bio

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http://blog.syazwan.co.cc

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jipang_menje...@ubuntuseekers.com

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Boh Yap]

hi,

"Cracked the LPI exam.."  <-- this just hi-lights the sad case with
Malaysia. We seem to have a very bad attitude to learning, its not to
acquire knowledge, its just so that we can pass the exam, as said here

> ". so we can pass it easily.. YES!"

What about hard work and experience, naah,... "terlalu susah"

And when they get a job, they will screw things up. With
attitudes/aptitude like this, will M'sia ever get to produce Nobel
Prize winners? I doubt it.

On the other hand, if there is a hands on course or apprentice-ship
program, shirkers like this would easily be exposed, they are the ones
that do the least and less willing to help and share. That's why I
have little faith in exams & certification.

On the other hand, these guys may only be joking and they are already
gurus in what they do... but it is in bad taste in a discussion on
this thread talking about attitudes towards gaining skills. So they
deserve the lambasting.


On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Soire Meira  wrote:
> wow.. i like it.. look like so easy to 'crack' this LPI.. so we can pass it
> easily.. YES!
>
> 2011/4/4 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar 
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> P/S: I heard some people said they had 'cracked' the LPI exam program to
>> make them pass it. Rumor only. No proof was shown to me though.
>>
>> But there are also those who had "kaw tim" with certain examination lab to
>> "buka buku" during exam. Even googled it.
>>
>> On 04/04/2011 09:26 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel wrote:
>>>
>>> We JV with universities to do OSS certification as add on to their
>>> universities program.
>>>
>>> Industry will get what they want, certified graduates and experience with
>>> OSS.
>>>
>>> and GOV get their numbers. :)
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
>> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
>>
>> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Maui Sabily 2011
> GPG KeyID: DBDA3074
> GPG Fingerprint: 3CCE D281 C894 4FB0 3D22 2141 75C6 E41F DBDA 3074
>
> Soire Meira 2008 - 2011
> EascobaNET, Inc 2006 - 2010
> Ch0kL@Thack 2002
> PaleoY2K 1998 - 2000
>
> http://www.sabily.my
> http://www.sabily-my.tk
>
> Developer:
> Sabily NetBook Remix 10.10 Al-Quds
> Sabily Zakat Calc 0.2-1 Beta (Debian)
> Asmawi Office 0.1 Alpha (Webase Presentiton)
> Soire TV & Radio (Windows Only - continue version on Linux)
> BrutuSamaDia (Remote Desktop Penetration Testing)
> Mauiware.AYU.0.6 (Virus Cleanner & Get Back Hidden Files)
>
> Malicious of Dark Knight - "Hack To Learn, Don't Learn To Hack"
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
>
> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>



-- 
#---
regds,

Boh Heong, Yap

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Soire Meira]

wow.. i like it.. look like so easy to 'crack' this LPI.. so we can pass it
easily.. YES!

2011/4/4 Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar 

> Agreed.
>
> P/S: I heard some people said they had 'cracked' the LPI exam program to
> make them pass it. Rumor only. No proof was shown to me though.
>
> But there are also those who had "kaw tim" with certain examination lab to
> "buka buku" during exam. Even googled it.
>
>
> On 04/04/2011 09:26 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel wrote:
>
>> We JV with universities to do OSS certification as add on to their
>> universities program.
>>
>> Industry will get what they want, certified graduates and experience with
>> OSS.
>>
>> and GOV get their numbers. :)
>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
>
> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>



-- 
--
*Maui Sabily 2011* 
*GPG KeyID*: DBDA3074
*GPG Fingerprint*: 3CCE D281 C894 4FB0 3D22 2141 75C6 E41F DBDA 3074

Soire Meira 2008 - 2011
EascobaNET, Inc 2006 - 2010
Ch0kL@Thack 2002
PaleoY2K 1998 - 2000

http://www.sabily.my
http://www.sabily-my.tk

Developer:
Sabily NetBook Remix 10.10
Al-Quds
Sabily Zakat Calc 0.2-1 Beta (Debian) 
Asmawi Office 0.1 Alpha (Webase Presentiton) 
Soire TV & Radio  (Windows Only - continue
version on Linux)
BrutuSamaDia  (Remote Desktop Penetration
Testing)
Mauiware.AYU.0.6  (Virus Cleanner & Get Back
Hidden Files)

Malicious of Dark Knight - "Hack To Learn, Don't Learn To Hack"

-- 
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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar]

Agreed.

P/S: I heard some people said they had 'cracked' the LPI exam program to 
make them pass it. Rumor only. No proof was shown to me though.


But there are also those who had "kaw tim" with certain examination lab 
to "buka buku" during exam. Even googled it.


On 04/04/2011 09:26 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel wrote:

We JV with universities to do OSS certification as add on to their
universities program.

Industry will get what they want, certified graduates and experience with OSS.

and GOV get their numbers. :)


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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Harisfazillah Jamel]

Team,

Conference like MOSC2011 and others OSS conference can be used by us
to develop "skilled apprenticeship". They can learn project management
and others soft skills during organizing the conferences.

Apprentice program can be done by each of us. Im on for teh tarik, can
we meet during OpenSuse Debian Gnome3 release party this Saturday?

I believe we can create this eco system. OSS community -> Universities
-> Industry + Government (GOV).

Fazli and I are working on with OSS certification organisation like
LPI, RHSE and PCBSD. Its can be the carrot for industry thats want to
see paper certification and for the students to gain that.

But those certifications need training, on the jobs training (OJT),
real time training. Thats where Apprentice program should come in.

Universities have industrial training 3 months to 6 months. Attach to
OSS community (we need place) or companies of OSS friends and OJT the
basis of OSS solutions.

We JV with universities to do OSS certification as add on to their
universities program.

Industry will get what they want, certified graduates and experience with OSS.

and GOV get their numbers. :)

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:56 AM, Boh Yap  wrote:
> hi Red1,
>
> Agree, the 'Transformasi' is all about knowledge-based economy, and
> higher income... this can only come from innovation.
>
> How do you get 'innovators', well you can hope/bet on some geniuses
> will pop up or more likely, improve the nurture the skills, create
> a bigger pool of people with those skills (a qualitative and
> quantitative approach) and the chances of getting some innovators is
> much better.
>
> But just 'training', courses and exams are not good enough! That's
> what's been going on, and you have all those >10 A's students that
> aren't productive in a real job! The earlier discussion touched upon a
> good point - APPRENTICESHIP.
>
> What is needed is a FLOSS ECOSYSTEM, provide an environment for
> hands-on practical learning, provide nurturing and sharing of passion
> with/by Mentors (or experianced techies), kick-start some projects to
> work on, add some funding and of course ppl with passion. I believe
> that all these 'pieces'  are lying round out there... 'we'(all FLOSS
> community) have to sit down and stitch it together, put in some plans,
> structures and commitment and make it work. And I'm sure we have
> enough ideas out there, and we gotta stop re-inventing wheels and work
> together. Building the ECOSYSTEM is important, because without that,
> it'll just be another one-off project, it cannot be sustainable.
>
> Then hopefully, out of that ecosystem, maybe we can produce another FB
> or equivalent. Not Nobel prize I don't think, for that we need pretty
> good Academic Insttuitions, and besides our academics has gotta up
> their publication of academic papers first!
>
> Hey Red1, I see you got your apprenticeship program started, that is good
> As for the rest, if any of you would like to get together for a
> teh-tarik and discuss how we can get the ecosystem going, I'm game. (I
> remember Haris(?) mentioned something like this?)...
>
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 6:32 PM, red1  wrote:
>> I concede my first point and i tarik balik tuduhan. I owe you one daun
>> pisang at Raju's.
>> One the 2nd last point below, i think if we can show them the numbers, i.e.
>> FOSS can generate 1% of GDP as i found out from some UN report (while
>> squatting in OSCC with Raja some time ago), i think we can prove that
>> innovation from FOSS far outweigh the short term benefit of proprietary tax.
>> A smarter nation is a more productive and innovative one, with perhaps some
>> Nobel prize geniuses in the offing. Now that is worth a billion to the
>> country if we got just one miserable candidate.
>>
>> On 4/3/11 6:04 PM, Boh Yap wrote:
>>>
>>> hi Red1,
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 4:41 PM, red1  wrote:
>>>

 Boh, it is ok in Malaysia because the man they hire to head MDec is not
 that
 technical either. Raja told me he is a salesman. And MOSTI big wigs are
 left
 to law abiding beaurocrats. I use to see their job specs with a
 smallprint
 in it: "Follow any other orders that may be given by your superior from
 time
 to time in compliance with General Orders." There won't be room for
 creativity.


>>>
>>> hiring the ppl with the 'right skills' for the job is not even
>>> 'innovation', its just basic competency! If hiring someone with tech
>>> skills to fill some management position is considered "innovation", I
>>> really feel (bad) for Malaysia, we got a long way to go...
>>>
>>>

 In Brunei someone told me that govt is not a good innovator. But it is a
 good regulator. Thus they should come out with taxation or exemption to
 generate creativity. For example, if you installed your own instead of
 paying propretary vendors, you get to claim tax exemption to the amount
 of
 money you saved.

 Trust me. There will

Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Harisfazillah Jamel]

(lepas tu project director sakit jantung sebab the pmp certified
project manager tak buat project management, instead sibuk buat
functional  giler)

This PM terpaksa. SE dan SA tak faham apa kah cara yang baik hendak
bangunkan sistem yang projek kena buat. :)

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[red1]

Since u are so serious, here are some pointers. You got to do your own
research into almost anything and everything related to computing in
FOSS way. Sifu can be irritated if you bother him with newbie questions
all the time. If Sifu keeps quiet, it means, "Pergi Google lah bro".
Again, if the sifu maki hamun is not a good sifu. I have maki hamun
enough. Its time to relax. Tadi baru balik dari meronda tengah-tengah
bandaraya Bangkok sampai 5 pagi. Macam-macam yang tidak dapat dicerita
di sini tetapi memberangsangkan minda. Java skills selepas ini pasti
melonjak naik ke paras global.

On 4/4/11 5:01 AM, riZer Enterprise wrote:
As a newcomer aka newbie; i will not get anywhere without
all your tunjuk ajar, preaches and makian (from mistake) from you all
masters, sifus and gurus. please teach me a thing or two. maaf i cannot
give you money for the lessons you tought. i just wanna sama-sama cari
makan together. dan mengurangkan beban yang korang kena tanggung. Berat
sama dipikul ringan sama dijinjing
  
"Ke Arah Merealisasikan Satu Sumber"
  
  
Azhar
  
  2011/4/4 Boh Yap 
  hi
Red1,
  
  

 





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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[riZer Enterprise]

As a newcomer aka newbie; i will not get anywhere without all your tunjuk
ajar, preaches and makian (from mistake) from you all masters, sifus and
gurus. please teach me a thing or two. maaf i cannot give you money for the
lessons you tought. i just wanna sama-sama cari makan together. dan
mengurangkan beban yang korang kena tanggung. Berat sama dipikul ringan sama
dijinjing

"Ke Arah Merealisasikan Satu Sumber"


Azhar

2011/4/4 Boh Yap 

> hi Red1,
>
> Agree, the 'Transformasi' is all about knowledge-based economy, and
> higher income... this can only come from innovation.
>
> How do you get 'innovators', well you can hope/bet on some geniuses
> will pop up or more likely, improve the nurture the skills, create
> a bigger pool of people with those skills (a qualitative and
> quantitative approach) and the chances of getting some innovators is
> much better.
>
> But just 'training', courses and exams are not good enough! That's
> what's been going on, and you have all those >10 A's students that
> aren't productive in a real job! The earlier discussion touched upon a
> good point - APPRENTICESHIP.
>
> What is needed is a FLOSS ECOSYSTEM, provide an environment for
> hands-on practical learning, provide nurturing and sharing of passion
> with/by Mentors (or experianced techies), kick-start some projects to
> work on, add some funding and of course ppl with passion. I believe
> that all these 'pieces'  are lying round out there... 'we'(all FLOSS
> community) have to sit down and stitch it together, put in some plans,
> structures and commitment and make it work. And I'm sure we have
> enough ideas out there, and we gotta stop re-inventing wheels and work
> together. Building the ECOSYSTEM is important, because without that,
> it'll just be another one-off project, it cannot be sustainable.
>
> Then hopefully, out of that ecosystem, maybe we can produce another FB
> or equivalent. Not Nobel prize I don't think, for that we need pretty
> good Academic Insttuitions, and besides our academics has gotta up
> their publication of academic papers first!
>
> Hey Red1, I see you got your apprenticeship program started, that is
> good
> As for the rest, if any of you would like to get together for a
> teh-tarik and discuss how we can get the ecosystem going, I'm game. (I
> remember Haris(?) mentioned something like this?)...
>
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 6:32 PM, red1  wrote:
> > I concede my first point and i tarik balik tuduhan. I owe you one daun
> > pisang at Raju's.
> > One the 2nd last point below, i think if we can show them the numbers,
> i.e.
> > FOSS can generate 1% of GDP as i found out from some UN report (while
> > squatting in OSCC with Raja some time ago), i think we can prove that
> > innovation from FOSS far outweigh the short term benefit of proprietary
> tax.
> > A smarter nation is a more productive and innovative one, with perhaps
> some
> > Nobel prize geniuses in the offing. Now that is worth a billion to the
> > country if we got just one miserable candidate.
> >
> > On 4/3/11 6:04 PM, Boh Yap wrote:
> >>
> >> hi Red1,
> >>
> >> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 4:41 PM, red1  wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Boh, it is ok in Malaysia because the man they hire to head MDec is not
> >>> that
> >>> technical either. Raja told me he is a salesman. And MOSTI big wigs are
> >>> left
> >>> to law abiding beaurocrats. I use to see their job specs with a
> >>> smallprint
> >>> in it: "Follow any other orders that may be given by your superior from
> >>> time
> >>> to time in compliance with General Orders." There won't be room for
> >>> creativity.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> hiring the ppl with the 'right skills' for the job is not even
> >> 'innovation', its just basic competency! If hiring someone with tech
> >> skills to fill some management position is considered "innovation", I
> >> really feel (bad) for Malaysia, we got a long way to go...
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> In Brunei someone told me that govt is not a good innovator. But it is
> a
> >>> good regulator. Thus they should come out with taxation or exemption to
> >>> generate creativity. For example, if you installed your own instead of
> >>> paying propretary vendors, you get to claim tax exemption to the amount
> >>> of
> >>> money you saved.
> >>>
> >>> Trust me. There will be a gold rush for OSDC.my membershp forms.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Ha, this will be good if it happens, but then there is a serious
> >> "conflict of interest". The vendors won't be able to make tons of
> >> money from services, so the gov. cannot tax them as much, and they
> >> have to give out money to the smart customers! - not gonna happen
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
> > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
> >
> > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> #---
> regds,
>
> Boh Heong, Yap
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing

Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Boh Yap]

hi Red1,

Agree, the 'Transformasi' is all about knowledge-based economy, and
higher income... this can only come from innovation.

How do you get 'innovators', well you can hope/bet on some geniuses
will pop up or more likely, improve the nurture the skills, create
a bigger pool of people with those skills (a qualitative and
quantitative approach) and the chances of getting some innovators is
much better.

But just 'training', courses and exams are not good enough! That's
what's been going on, and you have all those >10 A's students that
aren't productive in a real job! The earlier discussion touched upon a
good point - APPRENTICESHIP.

What is needed is a FLOSS ECOSYSTEM, provide an environment for
hands-on practical learning, provide nurturing and sharing of passion
with/by Mentors (or experianced techies), kick-start some projects to
work on, add some funding and of course ppl with passion. I believe
that all these 'pieces'  are lying round out there... 'we'(all FLOSS
community) have to sit down and stitch it together, put in some plans,
structures and commitment and make it work. And I'm sure we have
enough ideas out there, and we gotta stop re-inventing wheels and work
together. Building the ECOSYSTEM is important, because without that,
it'll just be another one-off project, it cannot be sustainable.

Then hopefully, out of that ecosystem, maybe we can produce another FB
or equivalent. Not Nobel prize I don't think, for that we need pretty
good Academic Insttuitions, and besides our academics has gotta up
their publication of academic papers first!

Hey Red1, I see you got your apprenticeship program started, that is good
As for the rest, if any of you would like to get together for a
teh-tarik and discuss how we can get the ecosystem going, I'm game. (I
remember Haris(?) mentioned something like this?)...

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 6:32 PM, red1  wrote:
> I concede my first point and i tarik balik tuduhan. I owe you one daun
> pisang at Raju's.
> One the 2nd last point below, i think if we can show them the numbers, i.e.
> FOSS can generate 1% of GDP as i found out from some UN report (while
> squatting in OSCC with Raja some time ago), i think we can prove that
> innovation from FOSS far outweigh the short term benefit of proprietary tax.
> A smarter nation is a more productive and innovative one, with perhaps some
> Nobel prize geniuses in the offing. Now that is worth a billion to the
> country if we got just one miserable candidate.
>
> On 4/3/11 6:04 PM, Boh Yap wrote:
>>
>> hi Red1,
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 4:41 PM, red1  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Boh, it is ok in Malaysia because the man they hire to head MDec is not
>>> that
>>> technical either. Raja told me he is a salesman. And MOSTI big wigs are
>>> left
>>> to law abiding beaurocrats. I use to see their job specs with a
>>> smallprint
>>> in it: "Follow any other orders that may be given by your superior from
>>> time
>>> to time in compliance with General Orders." There won't be room for
>>> creativity.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> hiring the ppl with the 'right skills' for the job is not even
>> 'innovation', its just basic competency! If hiring someone with tech
>> skills to fill some management position is considered "innovation", I
>> really feel (bad) for Malaysia, we got a long way to go...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> In Brunei someone told me that govt is not a good innovator. But it is a
>>> good regulator. Thus they should come out with taxation or exemption to
>>> generate creativity. For example, if you installed your own instead of
>>> paying propretary vendors, you get to claim tax exemption to the amount
>>> of
>>> money you saved.
>>>
>>> Trust me. There will be a gold rush for OSDC.my membershp forms.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ha, this will be good if it happens, but then there is a serious
>> "conflict of interest". The vendors won't be able to make tons of
>> money from services, so the gov. cannot tax them as much, and they
>> have to give out money to the smart customers! - not gonna happen
>>
>>
>
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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[red1]

I concede my first point and i tarik balik tuduhan. I owe you one daun 
pisang at Raju's.
One the 2nd last point below, i think if we can show them the numbers, 
i.e. FOSS can generate 1% of GDP as i found out from some UN report 
(while squatting in OSCC with Raja some time ago), i think we can prove 
that innovation from FOSS far outweigh the short term benefit of 
proprietary tax.
A smarter nation is a more productive and innovative one, with perhaps 
some Nobel prize geniuses in the offing. Now that is worth a billion to 
the country if we got just one miserable candidate.


On 4/3/11 6:04 PM, Boh Yap wrote:

hi Red1,

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 4:41 PM, red1  wrote:
   

Boh, it is ok in Malaysia because the man they hire to head MDec is not that
technical either. Raja told me he is a salesman. And MOSTI big wigs are left
to law abiding beaurocrats. I use to see their job specs with a smallprint
in it: "Follow any other orders that may be given by your superior from time
to time in compliance with General Orders." There won't be room for
creativity.

 

hiring the ppl with the 'right skills' for the job is not even
'innovation', its just basic competency! If hiring someone with tech
skills to fill some management position is considered "innovation", I
really feel (bad) for Malaysia, we got a long way to go...

   

In Brunei someone told me that govt is not a good innovator. But it is a
good regulator. Thus they should come out with taxation or exemption to
generate creativity. For example, if you installed your own instead of
paying propretary vendors, you get to claim tax exemption to the amount of
money you saved.

Trust me. There will be a gold rush for OSDC.my membershp forms.

 

Ha, this will be good if it happens, but then there is a serious
"conflict of interest". The vendors won't be able to make tons of
money from services, so the gov. cannot tax them as much, and they
have to give out money to the smart customers! - not gonna happen

   


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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Boh Yap]

hi Red1,

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 4:41 PM, red1  wrote:
>
> Boh, it is ok in Malaysia because the man they hire to head MDec is not that
> technical either. Raja told me he is a salesman. And MOSTI big wigs are left
> to law abiding beaurocrats. I use to see their job specs with a smallprint
> in it: "Follow any other orders that may be given by your superior from time
> to time in compliance with General Orders." There won't be room for
> creativity.
>
hiring the ppl with the 'right skills' for the job is not even
'innovation', its just basic competency! If hiring someone with tech
skills to fill some management position is considered "innovation", I
really feel (bad) for Malaysia, we got a long way to go...

> In Brunei someone told me that govt is not a good innovator. But it is a
> good regulator. Thus they should come out with taxation or exemption to
> generate creativity. For example, if you installed your own instead of
> paying propretary vendors, you get to claim tax exemption to the amount of
> money you saved.
>
> Trust me. There will be a gold rush for OSDC.my membershp forms.
>

Ha, this will be good if it happens, but then there is a serious
"conflict of interest". The vendors won't be able to make tons of
money from services, so the gov. cannot tax them as much, and they
have to give out money to the smart customers! - not gonna happen

> ..
>
> --
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>
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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[red1]

On 4/3/11 4:26 PM, Boh Yap wrote:

Raja,



Commenting on yr hiring objectives, "it is not the technical skills
that i look for. it is their pre-disposition to acquire and adapt
technical skills.."
its not wrong, but don't you/we think it reflects sadly on our
training intituitions?

We SHOULD BE hiring for technical skills! If I'm a owner of a
data-centre, I want to be able to hire a cloud-computing expert
but alas, our Edu system can't produce any of them. So I hire some
person whom I think has a right aptitude and train them on the job!
Don't you/anybody think this is the wrong picture!!

   
Boh, it is ok in Malaysia because the man they hire to head MDec is not 
that technical either. Raja told me he is a salesman. And MOSTI big wigs 
are left to law abiding beaurocrats. I use to see their job specs with a 
smallprint in it: "Follow any other orders that may be given by your 
superior from time to time in compliance with General Orders." There 
won't be room for creativity.


In Brunei someone told me that govt is not a good innovator. But it is a 
good regulator. Thus they should come out with taxation or exemption to 
generate creativity. For example, if you installed your own instead of 
paying propretary vendors, you get to claim tax exemption to the amount 
of money you saved.


Trust me. There will be a gold rush for OSDC.my membershp forms.

..

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Boh Yap]

Raja,

good points. The keyword from your post is "skilled apprenticeship".
Other professions practice this, Accountants, Lawyers, doctors but not
IT!

A guy that just got is Acct Degree doesn't get to be a CFO or manage a
multi-million project, a fresh pilot doesnt get to be captain, he
flies as a co-pilot first.. but iike you say, a fresh IT grad gets to
be a PM! Only in boleh-land!

Maybe there should be some guidelines about apprenticeships... maybe
OSDC should start offerring consultancy to HR depts, on how to hire IT
personel...

Commenting on yr hiring objectives, "it is not the technical skills
that i look for. it is their pre-disposition to acquire and adapt
technical skills.."
its not wrong, but don't you/we think it reflects sadly on our
training intituitions?

We SHOULD BE hiring for technical skills! If I'm a owner of a
data-centre, I want to be able to hire a cloud-computing expert
but alas, our Edu system can't produce any of them. So I hire some
person whom I think has a right aptitude and train them on the job!
Don't you/anybody think this is the wrong picture!!



On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Raja Iskandar Shah
 wrote:
> when interviewing fresh graduates i use these :
>
> academic - as a measure of discipline, those with 3.5 cgpa grades tend to be
> more dateline and time concious
> project work - as a measure of independent research on the topic (esp
> literature review)
> blogs, forums, etc - as a measure of communicating with peers
> 3 years' ambition - as a measure of dedication
>
> it is not the technical skills that i look for. it is their pre-disposition
> to acquire and adapt technical skills
> red1, has some pretty weird criteria, like "carrying the sifu's bag"..
> hahaha... i would love to have some of those too
> by the way, training for rhce in india is only rm600, compared to rm3000 in
> malaysia. exam fees are the same. some of my friends from india say it is
> cheaper to get certification than to get a car driving license (small bits
> of info that dont get published). also in india, there is still the culture
> of skilled apprenticeship, whereas kat malaysia boleh land, economics
> graduate pun boleh jadi multi-million ringgit ict project director (lepas tu
> project director sakit jantung sebab the pmp certified project manager tak
> buat project management, instead sibuk buat functional  giler)
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 2:58 AM, red1  wrote:
>>
>> btw Boh, how did u know it involved an Exocet? You are on the watchlist
>> now my friend :)
>> Ok back to the log book argument. Why not go back to our own best
>> practice? Show me your code. No, not from your notebook. From SourceForge
>> template or other repository and there we can examine trackers and their log
>> entries to see if they follow the discipline or not.
>> I learnt alot while working on the ADempiere project using SourceForge.
>> Stuff such as FR, Bug trackers, auto numbering; atomic mapping of each
>> tracker to each bug fix and commit; describing how to replicate the bug, and
>> which Bug tracker number refers to which commit revision.  Just an idea on
>> how to be lazy fruitfully.
>> On 4/3/11 2:19 AM, Boh Yap wrote:
>>>
>>> ah, good discussion, logbook vs exams, lets carry on...
>>> These are 2 different paradigms,
>>> > From the employee POV:


>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
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>
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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Boh Yap]

hi Red1

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 2:58 AM, red1  wrote:
> btw Boh, how did u know it involved an Exocet? You are on the watchlist now
> my friend :)

I was just guessing, are you admitting its an Exocet!? ;-)
Pls keep it away from my backyard ;-)

> Ok back to the log book argument. Why not go back to our own best practice?
> Show me your code. No, not from your notebook. From SourceForge template or
> other repository and there we can examine trackers and their log entries to
> see if they follow the discipline or not.
> I learnt alot while working on the ADempiere project using SourceForge.
> Stuff such as FR, Bug trackers, auto numbering; atomic mapping of each
> tracker to each bug fix and commit; describing how to replicate the bug, and
> which Bug tracker number refers to which commit revision.  Just an idea on
> how to be lazy fruitfully.
>
I agree, any CVS (Code Versioning System) and/or Issue/BugTracking
system is also equivalent to a log book. How many proprietry projects
actually use those tools?

OSDC care to take a survey?



> On 4/3/11 2:19 AM, Boh Yap wrote:
>>
>> ah, good discussion, logbook vs exams, lets carry on...
>>
>> These are 2 different paradigms,
>>
>> > From the employee POV:
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[red1]

Good info Raja.. hmm.. i once saw an advert from a Bangalore IT school
that teach JVM hacking - now that is real guru stuff which that
sub-continent are great for and its cheap. Indian tour anyone?
About carrying the sifu's bag is about increasing the apprentice shock
absorbing capabilties. Anyway now it has increased to back massage and
kopi making which my last apprentice herein Thailand really did that!
Soon i will upgrade to Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh lifestyle.

On 4/3/11 10:02 AM, Raja Iskandar Shah wrote:

  when interviewing fresh graduates i use these :
  
  

  academic - as a measure of discipline, those with 3.5 cgpa
grades tend to be more dateline and time concious


  project work - as a measure of independent research on the
topic (esp literature review)


  blogs, forums, etc - as a measure of communicating with peers

3 years' ambition - as a measure of dedication
  
  it is not the technical skills that i look for. it is their
pre-disposition to acquire and adapt technical skills
  
  
  red1, has some pretty weird criteria, like "carrying the sifu's
bag".. hahaha... i would love to have some of those too
  
  
  by the way, training for rhce in india is only rm600, compared
to rm3000 in malaysia. exam fees are the same. some of my friends from
india say it is cheaper to get certification than to get a car driving
license (small bits of info that dont get published). also in india,
there is still the culture of skilled apprenticeship, whereas kat
malaysia boleh land, economics graduate pun boleh jadi multi-million
ringgit ict project director (lepas tu project director sakit jantung
sebab the pmp certified project manager tak buat project management,
instead sibuk buat functional  giler)
  
  
  

 





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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Raja Iskandar Shah]

when interviewing fresh graduates i use these :

   1. academic - as a measure of discipline, those with 3.5 cgpa grades tend
   to be more dateline and time concious
   2. project work - as a measure of independent research on the topic (esp
   literature review)
   3. blogs, forums, etc - as a measure of communicating with peers
   4. 3 years' ambition - as a measure of dedication

it is not the technical skills that i look for. it is their pre-disposition
to acquire and adapt technical skills

red1, has some pretty weird criteria, like "carrying the sifu's bag"..
hahaha... i would love to have some of those too

by the way, training for rhce in india is only rm600, compared to rm3000 in
malaysia. exam fees are the same. some of my friends from india say it is
cheaper to get certification than to get a car driving license (small bits
of info that dont get published). also in india, there is still the culture
of skilled apprenticeship, whereas kat malaysia boleh land, economics
graduate pun boleh jadi multi-million ringgit ict project director (lepas tu
project director sakit jantung sebab the pmp certified project manager tak
buat project management, instead sibuk buat functional  giler)



On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 2:58 AM, red1  wrote:

btw Boh, how did u know it involved an Exocet? You are on the watchlist now
> my friend :)
> Ok back to the log book argument. Why not go back to our own best practice?
> Show me your code. No, not from your notebook. From SourceForge template or
> other repository and there we can examine trackers and their log entries to
> see if they follow the discipline or not.
> I learnt alot while working on the ADempiere project using SourceForge.
> Stuff such as FR, Bug trackers, auto numbering; atomic mapping of each
> tracker to each bug fix and commit; describing how to replicate the bug, and
> which Bug tracker number refers to which commit revision.  Just an idea on
> how to be lazy fruitfully.
>
> On 4/3/11 2:19 AM, Boh Yap wrote:
>
> ah, good discussion, logbook vs exams, lets carry on...
>>
>> These are 2 different paradigms,
>>
>> > From the employee POV:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
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>
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>
>

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[red1]

btw Boh, how did u know it involved an Exocet? You are on the watchlist 
now my friend :)
Ok back to the log book argument. Why not go back to our own best 
practice? Show me your code. No, not from your notebook. From 
SourceForge template or other repository and there we can examine 
trackers and their log entries to see if they follow the discipline or not.
I learnt alot while working on the ADempiere project using SourceForge. 
Stuff such as FR, Bug trackers, auto numbering; atomic mapping of each 
tracker to each bug fix and commit; describing how to replicate the bug, 
and which Bug tracker number refers to which commit revision.  Just an 
idea on how to be lazy fruitfully.


On 4/3/11 2:19 AM, Boh Yap wrote:

ah, good discussion, logbook vs exams, lets carry on...

These are 2 different paradigms,

> From the employee POV:
 



   


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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Boh Yap]

ah, good discussion, logbook vs exams, lets carry on...

These are 2 different paradigms,

>From the employee POV:

exams -
  places the onus and work on the examiners, in coming u with
fresh questions,
  and if practical exams, how to come up with exam scenarios.

  In terms of practice and practical expertise, 'students' apply
it within a short period -
  during the exam. And the knowledge may be 'given back' after its
over. Do they
  develop the discipline and the habits of 'best practices'? Probably not.

   With orgs. like LPI, RHCE, etc... its easy, we just depend on
them, but what
   if their syllabus doesnt quite fit, or locally we require
emphasis on different
   things? (well, maybe that's why LPI's community approach is better...)

logbooks -
   requires the 'student'/employee to do have the diligence and
discipline to do
   their work, consistently, throughout the period where the
logbook is maintained.
   Yes it requires a great deal of effort and initiative as Red1 says.
   This enforces a discipline and hopefully, best practices.


>From the employers POV

exams -
Its easy, and 'well understood' if he/she has a cert, it must be good,
Just tick the check-box. Then its up to the technical 'boss'
to interview the
candidate. If the boss is like Dilbert's, then he won't know
what questions
to ask, the candidate gets hired because his score is higher.

log book -
   sure the tech 'boss' interviewing the candidate needs know his
stuff, otherwise
   as Red1 says, he can't review it! Maybe they should have a
technical boss that really
   knows his tech, (not just play golf with the board of
directors... but that's
   another story)

In the 'exam' case, the candidate is off to work; sets up a server or
joins a programming team.  then depending on bad luck, or whether
Jupiter is aligned with Saturn, or more likely he was lucky in the
exam and has no real skill, the server gets compromised/hacked/owned
or his code has a bug that is difficult to trace... in either case it
ends up costing the employer...

Not that this cannot happen with the log book case, but the 'boss'
will have a better assessment of the candidate's skill and probably
not put him on a critical job.

If you are a employer, owner of a company, which would you hire, the
guy with the fancy exam results, or the guy that has a well-documented
log book?

How many of us here in this list who have a technical background
cannot assess a log-book?

And if the guy that interviewed you, and who's probably gonna be your
boss, cannot understand your log book, do you want to work for him?

Hey maybe my POV is too radical, but my paranoia is driven by the fact
that Malaysians are very good at doing well in exams, and yet fail to
pick up good skill sets (hence "qualified but incompetent" ~ thanks to
ghodmode for this statement). I feel they really lack practical
hands-on skills, and SysAdmin, Programming, etc... are hands-on
skills.

And lastly, I'd like to pick on Red1 comments:

> Few hardly upkeep their log books. And hardly anyone to review of them.

Isn't this a fault of the organisation itself? You mean that there are
no senior persons with the knowledge to review the trainees, or they
were not bothered? And if its new technology, ain't the foreign
consultants suppose to do that?
So I think here, its not the fault of the log book system, but rather
the failure of the personel and management of HR.

> Log books are also quite subjective requiring good counterpart reviewers to 
> read
> what is written and provide a measurable benchmark to it. Professional exams
> are a quick way to say if you got the minimal skillsets.

Yes the emphasis is on MINIMAL SKILLSETS. Logbooks, I think are better if we
want to look beyond minimal skillsets!  (e.g. airline pilots)

> Last year, i did some HR development consulting for some local military
> equipment crew which was trained by a foreign superpower.

What, some military crew don't have their own personel that have
enough skills to review trainees logbooks, and that organisation is
only looking for 'minimal skillsets' and not further? I fear for our
safety!, the next Excocet missle they test fire may land in somebody's
backyard!  ;-)

Ah, we always wanna take the easier way out sigh!


On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 11:01 PM, red1  wrote:
> Last year, i did some HR development consulting for some local military
> equipment crew which was trained by a foreign superpower.
> Their no.1 requirement:
> Transfer of know how via log book kept by local counterpart, when learning
> from expartriate engineer.
> Their No.1 issue:
> Few hardly upkeep their log books. And hardly anyone to review of them.
> My no.1 recommendation:
> Institute examination standards and independent drill tests.
>
> IMHO, log books is a very hi-effort, hi-initiative endeavour. It is highly
> relevant in high risk careers such as aircraft crew, but for o

Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[red1]

Last year, i did some HR development consulting for some local military 
equipment crew which was trained by a foreign superpower.

Their no.1 requirement:
Transfer of know how via log book kept by local counterpart, when 
learning from expartriate engineer.

Their No.1 issue:
Few hardly upkeep their log books. And hardly anyone to review of them.
My no.1 recommendation:
Institute examination standards and independent drill tests.

IMHO, log books is a very hi-effort, hi-initiative endeavour. It is 
highly relevant in high risk careers such as aircraft crew, but for on 
the ground desktop BigMac munchers, a well generated test regime such as 
done by SCJP (Java) and CCNA (Cisco) should suffice. In fact CCNA test 
questions are experienced based where without experience you would fail. 
Log books are also quite subjective requiring good counterpart reviewers 
to read what is written and provide a measurable benchmark to it. 
Professional exams are a quick way to say if you got the minimal skillsets.


On 4/2/11 1:09 AM, Boh Yap wrote:

hi all,

to widen this discussion

Personally, I'm against certification as the SOLE means of selection,
maybe its because  of our over emphasis of A's in exams, that produced
'qualified' but incompetent personnel. Also perhaps of the many MCSE's
out there, who are trained to click buttons... and setup servers with
security holes.

On the other hand, i can understand employers and HR departments
needs, at least in using certification as the 1st level filtering
process.

However a knowledgeable interviewer will very quickly sort out how
much the interviewee knows about Linux or programming. Both of these
are practical skills, and experience counts, especially when they have
encountered problems, solved them ad learnt from it. Unfortunately,
for organizations that are going into FLOSS for the first time, may
not have the expertise to conduct interviews for FLOSS personal.

Perhaps we can borrow some techniques form another hands-on skilled
based profession, airline pilots. Pilots are required to keep a log
book, especially during their 'training' period, where they record the
no. hours flown, the routes that they flew and problems that they may
have encountered. Perhaps Linux sysadmins should do the same, keep a
log of the servers they setup, distro, disk partitions&  file system
setup, software installed, backup systems used etc...   If Linux
professional were to do this, then its very easy for a prospective
employer  to asses his capabilities.
   


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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte]

What the "experts" may or may not realise is that in a company, the HR
may not be IT savvy, so to ensure that a certain level of expertise
and competency has been achieved by the candidate.

Also in many instances of tender requirements, a certification will
come in handy.

Eric


On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel
 wrote:
> Do agree. Most of the veteran may not go for certification. Experience
> do give them the advantages over younger generation.
>
> Certification do help us in determine which to pick from thousand of 
> graduates.
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte
>  wrote:
>> Not many people agree on certification.
>>
>> It doesn't help if local OSS veteran/otai often puts down the need for
>> certification.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group 
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
>
> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[riZer Enterprise]

work together ; share together
r u willing to share?

azhar

2011/4/2 Boh Yap 

> hi,
>
> A public blog may be a good idea, but it is not always appropriate.
> Sometimes you need to keep config details of a specific server,
> especially a clients server. Examles of things you may not wanna show
> on a public blog is details of Apache config, or a DB (Postgres or
> MySQL) config; but you may want to keep this information somewhere for
> private/support use. This is especially true if you are supporting a
> few servers. Hence I find a personal logbook is useful.
>
> But you would not want to show all the logbook details to a party
> other than your client either.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel
>  wrote:
> > I always ask staff thats work with me to blog, any tasks that I had
> > given to then. Its not only for future reference's and knowledge
> > sharing. Its like a log book for me to review their work.
> >
> > We can start the log book by asking them to have blog or own website
> > to be refer to.
> >
> > Another way to do this is to have them attending OSS workshop for
> > example by HackerspaceKL or any OSS community. We can review them
> > during the events.
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Boh Yap  wrote:
> >> hi all,
> >>
> >> to widen this discussion
> >>
> >> Personally, I'm against certification as the SOLE means of selection,
> >> maybe its because  of our over emphasis of A's in exams, that produced
> >> 'qualified' but incompetent personnel. Also perhaps of the many MCSE's
> >> out there, who are trained to click buttons... and setup servers with
> >> security holes.
> >>
> >> On the other hand, i can understand employers and HR departments
> >> needs, at least in using certification as the 1st level filtering
> >> process.
> >>
> >> However a knowledgeable interviewer will very quickly sort out how
> >> much the interviewee knows about Linux or programming. Both of these
> >> are practical skills, and experience counts, especially when they have
> >> encountered problems, solved them ad learnt from it. Unfortunately,
> >> for organizations that are going into FLOSS for the first time, may
> >> not have the expertise to conduct interviews for FLOSS personal.
> >>
> >> Perhaps we can borrow some techniques form another hands-on skilled
> >> based profession, airline pilots. Pilots are required to keep a log
> >> book, especially during their 'training' period, where they record the
> >> no. hours flown, the routes that they flew and problems that they may
> >> have encountered. Perhaps Linux sysadmins should do the same, keep a
> >> log of the servers they setup, distro, disk partitions & file system
> >> setup, software installed, backup systems used etc...   If Linux
> >> professional were to do this, then its very easy for a prospective
> >> employer  to asses his capabilities.
> >>
> >> A possible solution here could be for more experienced OSDC members to
> >> provide consultancy to employers to help select candidates. They will
> >> need to discuss with and understand the employers needs and even come
> >> out with a strategy for migrating and deploying FLOSS. I'm sure there
> >> are enough experienced personal within OSDC ...
> >>
> >> Also, as this is a hands on skill, one of the procedures for a job
> >> assessment may be to give a test, e.g. to actually setup a server, to
> >> a given specification - ie: RAID, with user quotas, setting up user
> >> accounts and privileges, Apache with virtual hosts, a LAMP stack
> >> etc...
> >>
> >> Perhaps OSDC can play a role by defining the format for such a Log
> >> Book, or set up specifications for a practical test like setting up a
> >> server as in above example. Then OSDC will begin to play a more
> >> meaningful and respectable role, almost like a professional body,
> >> which other national IT organizations in Malaysia have not done ...
> >>
> >> A lot of ideas here, not easy to do/implement, but would help move the
> >> adoption of OSS forward, more than just a bunch of certificates.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel
> >>  wrote:
> >>> Do agree. Most of the veteran may not go for certification. Experience
> >>> do give them the advantages over younger generation.
> >>>
> >>> Certification do help us in determine which to pick from thousand of
> graduates.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte
> >>>  wrote:
>  Not many people agree on certification.
> 
>  It doesn't help if local OSS veteran/otai often puts down the need for
>  certification.
> 
>  Eric
> 
> >>>
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
> >
> > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> #---
> regds,
>
> Boh Heong, Yap
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-i

Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Boh Yap]

hi,

A public blog may be a good idea, but it is not always appropriate.
Sometimes you need to keep config details of a specific server,
especially a clients server. Examles of things you may not wanna show
on a public blog is details of Apache config, or a DB (Postgres or
MySQL) config; but you may want to keep this information somewhere for
private/support use. This is especially true if you are supporting a
few servers. Hence I find a personal logbook is useful.

But you would not want to show all the logbook details to a party
other than your client either.



On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel
 wrote:
> I always ask staff thats work with me to blog, any tasks that I had
> given to then. Its not only for future reference's and knowledge
> sharing. Its like a log book for me to review their work.
>
> We can start the log book by asking them to have blog or own website
> to be refer to.
>
> Another way to do this is to have them attending OSS workshop for
> example by HackerspaceKL or any OSS community. We can review them
> during the events.
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Boh Yap  wrote:
>> hi all,
>>
>> to widen this discussion
>>
>> Personally, I'm against certification as the SOLE means of selection,
>> maybe its because  of our over emphasis of A's in exams, that produced
>> 'qualified' but incompetent personnel. Also perhaps of the many MCSE's
>> out there, who are trained to click buttons... and setup servers with
>> security holes.
>>
>> On the other hand, i can understand employers and HR departments
>> needs, at least in using certification as the 1st level filtering
>> process.
>>
>> However a knowledgeable interviewer will very quickly sort out how
>> much the interviewee knows about Linux or programming. Both of these
>> are practical skills, and experience counts, especially when they have
>> encountered problems, solved them ad learnt from it. Unfortunately,
>> for organizations that are going into FLOSS for the first time, may
>> not have the expertise to conduct interviews for FLOSS personal.
>>
>> Perhaps we can borrow some techniques form another hands-on skilled
>> based profession, airline pilots. Pilots are required to keep a log
>> book, especially during their 'training' period, where they record the
>> no. hours flown, the routes that they flew and problems that they may
>> have encountered. Perhaps Linux sysadmins should do the same, keep a
>> log of the servers they setup, distro, disk partitions & file system
>> setup, software installed, backup systems used etc...   If Linux
>> professional were to do this, then its very easy for a prospective
>> employer  to asses his capabilities.
>>
>> A possible solution here could be for more experienced OSDC members to
>> provide consultancy to employers to help select candidates. They will
>> need to discuss with and understand the employers needs and even come
>> out with a strategy for migrating and deploying FLOSS. I'm sure there
>> are enough experienced personal within OSDC ...
>>
>> Also, as this is a hands on skill, one of the procedures for a job
>> assessment may be to give a test, e.g. to actually setup a server, to
>> a given specification - ie: RAID, with user quotas, setting up user
>> accounts and privileges, Apache with virtual hosts, a LAMP stack
>> etc...
>>
>> Perhaps OSDC can play a role by defining the format for such a Log
>> Book, or set up specifications for a practical test like setting up a
>> server as in above example. Then OSDC will begin to play a more
>> meaningful and respectable role, almost like a professional body,
>> which other national IT organizations in Malaysia have not done ...
>>
>> A lot of ideas here, not easy to do/implement, but would help move the
>> adoption of OSS forward, more than just a bunch of certificates.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel
>>  wrote:
>>> Do agree. Most of the veteran may not go for certification. Experience
>>> do give them the advantages over younger generation.
>>>
>>> Certification do help us in determine which to pick from thousand of 
>>> graduates.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte
>>>  wrote:
 Not many people agree on certification.

 It doesn't help if local OSS veteran/otai often puts down the need for
 certification.

 Eric

>>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group 
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
>
> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>



-- 
#---
regds,

Boh Heong, Yap

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Harisfazillah Jamel]

I always ask staff thats work with me to blog, any tasks that I had
given to then. Its not only for future reference's and knowledge
sharing. Its like a log book for me to review their work.

We can start the log book by asking them to have blog or own website
to be refer to.

Another way to do this is to have them attending OSS workshop for
example by HackerspaceKL or any OSS community. We can review them
during the events.

On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Boh Yap  wrote:
> hi all,
>
> to widen this discussion
>
> Personally, I'm against certification as the SOLE means of selection,
> maybe its because  of our over emphasis of A's in exams, that produced
> 'qualified' but incompetent personnel. Also perhaps of the many MCSE's
> out there, who are trained to click buttons... and setup servers with
> security holes.
>
> On the other hand, i can understand employers and HR departments
> needs, at least in using certification as the 1st level filtering
> process.
>
> However a knowledgeable interviewer will very quickly sort out how
> much the interviewee knows about Linux or programming. Both of these
> are practical skills, and experience counts, especially when they have
> encountered problems, solved them ad learnt from it. Unfortunately,
> for organizations that are going into FLOSS for the first time, may
> not have the expertise to conduct interviews for FLOSS personal.
>
> Perhaps we can borrow some techniques form another hands-on skilled
> based profession, airline pilots. Pilots are required to keep a log
> book, especially during their 'training' period, where they record the
> no. hours flown, the routes that they flew and problems that they may
> have encountered. Perhaps Linux sysadmins should do the same, keep a
> log of the servers they setup, distro, disk partitions & file system
> setup, software installed, backup systems used etc...   If Linux
> professional were to do this, then its very easy for a prospective
> employer  to asses his capabilities.
>
> A possible solution here could be for more experienced OSDC members to
> provide consultancy to employers to help select candidates. They will
> need to discuss with and understand the employers needs and even come
> out with a strategy for migrating and deploying FLOSS. I'm sure there
> are enough experienced personal within OSDC ...
>
> Also, as this is a hands on skill, one of the procedures for a job
> assessment may be to give a test, e.g. to actually setup a server, to
> a given specification - ie: RAID, with user quotas, setting up user
> accounts and privileges, Apache with virtual hosts, a LAMP stack
> etc...
>
> Perhaps OSDC can play a role by defining the format for such a Log
> Book, or set up specifications for a practical test like setting up a
> server as in above example. Then OSDC will begin to play a more
> meaningful and respectable role, almost like a professional body,
> which other national IT organizations in Malaysia have not done ...
>
> A lot of ideas here, not easy to do/implement, but would help move the
> adoption of OSS forward, more than just a bunch of certificates.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel
>  wrote:
>> Do agree. Most of the veteran may not go for certification. Experience
>> do give them the advantages over younger generation.
>>
>> Certification do help us in determine which to pick from thousand of 
>> graduates.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte
>>  wrote:
>>> Not many people agree on certification.
>>>
>>> It doesn't help if local OSS veteran/otai often puts down the need for
>>> certification.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Boh Yap]

hi all,

to widen this discussion

Personally, I'm against certification as the SOLE means of selection,
maybe its because  of our over emphasis of A's in exams, that produced
'qualified' but incompetent personnel. Also perhaps of the many MCSE's
out there, who are trained to click buttons... and setup servers with
security holes.

On the other hand, i can understand employers and HR departments
needs, at least in using certification as the 1st level filtering
process.

However a knowledgeable interviewer will very quickly sort out how
much the interviewee knows about Linux or programming. Both of these
are practical skills, and experience counts, especially when they have
encountered problems, solved them ad learnt from it. Unfortunately,
for organizations that are going into FLOSS for the first time, may
not have the expertise to conduct interviews for FLOSS personal.

Perhaps we can borrow some techniques form another hands-on skilled
based profession, airline pilots. Pilots are required to keep a log
book, especially during their 'training' period, where they record the
no. hours flown, the routes that they flew and problems that they may
have encountered. Perhaps Linux sysadmins should do the same, keep a
log of the servers they setup, distro, disk partitions & file system
setup, software installed, backup systems used etc...   If Linux
professional were to do this, then its very easy for a prospective
employer  to asses his capabilities.

A possible solution here could be for more experienced OSDC members to
provide consultancy to employers to help select candidates. They will
need to discuss with and understand the employers needs and even come
out with a strategy for migrating and deploying FLOSS. I'm sure there
are enough experienced personal within OSDC ...

Also, as this is a hands on skill, one of the procedures for a job
assessment may be to give a test, e.g. to actually setup a server, to
a given specification - ie: RAID, with user quotas, setting up user
accounts and privileges, Apache with virtual hosts, a LAMP stack
etc...

Perhaps OSDC can play a role by defining the format for such a Log
Book, or set up specifications for a practical test like setting up a
server as in above example. Then OSDC will begin to play a more
meaningful and respectable role, almost like a professional body,
which other national IT organizations in Malaysia have not done ...

A lot of ideas here, not easy to do/implement, but would help move the
adoption of OSS forward, more than just a bunch of certificates.



On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel
 wrote:
> Do agree. Most of the veteran may not go for certification. Experience
> do give them the advantages over younger generation.
>
> Certification do help us in determine which to pick from thousand of 
> graduates.
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte
>  wrote:
>> Not many people agree on certification.
>>
>> It doesn't help if local OSS veteran/otai often puts down the need for
>> certification.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group 
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
>
> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>



-- 
#---
regds,

Boh Heong, Yap

-- 
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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Harisfazillah Jamel]

Do agree. Most of the veteran may not go for certification. Experience
do give them the advantages over younger generation.

Certification do help us in determine which to pick from thousand of graduates.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte
 wrote:
> Not many people agree on certification.
>
> It doesn't help if local OSS veteran/otai often puts down the need for
> certification.
>
> Eric
>

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte]

Not many people agree on certification.

It doesn't help if local OSS veteran/otai often puts down the need for
certification.

Eric


On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Harisfazillah Jamel
 wrote:
> Certification is very important to us. The only way we can compete
> with nations like India and China that have numbers in people. The
> only way for us Malaysia to compete is to be the best among the best.
>
> To do this, certification is very important. Thats the way and proof
> that we have the people that can do much more better than others.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:15 AM, jazz...@gmail.com  wrote:
>> Owh, so for now malaysia do not have many certfied on linux, many news today
>> said that our gov want to use oss as main usage of their middleware etc, but
>> not all certified on it, any pobs just google and try an error its for my
>> exp ask a few friends from gov side
>>
>> Sent from my HTC
>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group 
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
>
> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Harisfazillah Jamel]

Certification is very important to us. The only way we can compete
with nations like India and China that have numbers in people. The
only way for us Malaysia to compete is to be the best among the best.

To do this, certification is very important. Thats the way and proof
that we have the people that can do much more better than others.


On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:15 AM, jazz...@gmail.com  wrote:
> Owh, so for now malaysia do not have many certfied on linux, many news today
> said that our gov want to use oss as main usage of their middleware etc, but
> not all certified on it, any pobs just google and try an error its for my
> exp ask a few friends from gov side
>
> Sent from my HTC
>

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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[jazz...@gmail.com]

Owh, so for now malaysia do not have many certfied on linux, many news today 
said that our gov want to use oss as main usage of their middleware etc, but 
not all certified on it, any pobs just google and try an error its for my exp 
ask a few friends from gov side

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "azs...@gmail.com" 
To: "Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte" , 

Cc: "JuStZrI" 
Subject: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified
Date: Thu, Mar 31, 2011 02:23
Just to add note to that.. Malaysia have around 35 -if I remember correctly- 
RHCE programmer n engineer relatively compare this to India they have around 
15,000. Now I remember why Malaysia is always not the main focus country to 
develop stack of OSS application and development. If there is certifications to 
be made and take I would like very much like to encourage those who is 
interested to take part. And please do take advantages of what MDeC offering on 
professional certifications too you can apply from a MSC Malaysia status 
companies or as an individual for any of the professional certifications that 
we offer.

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte" 
Date: Thu, Mar 31, 2011 1:55 am
Subject: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified
To: 
Cc: "JuStZrI" 


LPI is a vendor neutral certification. You need to pass 2 papers at
each level e.g. if you pass 101 and 102 you will get the LPI Level-1
certification.

NCLP is Novell's Linux certification which is 100% hands on.

RHCE is Red Hat's certification and is heavy on lab.

Eric

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 6:09 PM, JuStZrI  wrote:
> As Salam and good afternoon all,
>
> just want to ask the example of lpi certification of person who passwd
> the LPI exam's and other linux certified, just want to ask about the
> linux cert certified in Malaysia, to know the curriculum and the phase
> of the certification
>
> thanks ;)
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group 
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
>
> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>

-- 
To unsubscribe from and detail about this group 
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MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/

Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[azs...@gmail.com]

Just to add note to that.. Malaysia have around 35 -if I remember correctly- 
RHCE programmer n engineer relatively compare this to India they have around 
15,000. Now I remember why Malaysia is always not the main focus country to 
develop stack of OSS application and development. If there is certifications to 
be made and take I would like very much like to encourage those who is 
interested to take part. And please do take advantages of what MDeC offering on 
professional certifications too you can apply from a MSC Malaysia status 
companies or as an individual for any of the professional certifications that 
we offer.

Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte" 
Date: Thu, Mar 31, 2011 1:55 am
Subject: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified
To: 
Cc: "JuStZrI" 


LPI is a vendor neutral certification. You need to pass 2 papers at
each level e.g. if you pass 101 and 102 you will get the LPI Level-1
certification.

NCLP is Novell's Linux certification which is 100% hands on.

RHCE is Red Hat's certification and is heavy on lab.

Eric

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 6:09 PM, JuStZrI  wrote:
> As Salam and good afternoon all,
>
> just want to ask the example of lpi certification of person who passwd
> the LPI exam's and other linux certified, just want to ask about the
> linux cert certified in Malaysia, to know the curriculum and the phase
> of the certification
>
> thanks ;)
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group 
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
>
> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>

-- 
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Re: [osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[Slaya Chronicles - Geeko Acolyte]

LPI is a vendor neutral certification. You need to pass 2 papers at
each level e.g. if you pass 101 and 102 you will get the LPI Level-1
certification.

NCLP is Novell's Linux certification which is 100% hands on.

RHCE is Red Hat's certification and is heavy on lab.

Eric

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 6:09 PM, JuStZrI  wrote:
> As Salam and good afternoon all,
>
> just want to ask the example of lpi certification of person who passwd
> the LPI exam's and other linux certified, just want to ask about the
> linux cert certified in Malaysia, to know the curriculum and the phase
> of the certification
>
> thanks ;)
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from and detail about this group 
> http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information
>
> MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 and http://portal.mosc.my/
>

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[osdcmy] LPI Certified and other linux certified

[JuStZrI]

As Salam and good afternoon all,

just want to ask the example of lpi certification of person who passwd
the LPI exam's and other linux certified, just want to ask about the
linux cert certified in Malaysia, to know the curriculum and the phase
of the certification

thanks ;)

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