Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Didn't Kodak say the same thing at one point? On 4/24/2012 11:58 AM, Stan Halpin wrote: Recent articles in various newspaper business sections have talked about Sony Corp's attempts to stop losing money. The general impression is that they have far too many product lines with much competition rather than cooperation across various fiefdoms within the corporation. The new President (CEO?) has stated an intent to focus on three key products: TV's, digital imaging, and something else that I have forgotten. The previous President (CEO?) has stated that the strategy is a good one and that he was unable to get the various engineers to work toward common goals; everyone is apparently trying to be the one to develop the next Walkman. So he is skeptical that the strategy can be implemented. So anyway, SONY is in trouble, has stated an intent to keep digital imaging as one of a few key product lines, and we shall see. stan On Apr 23, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Boris, That's an interesting question. The rumor around here is that Sony is having profit problems. They should give the 35mm SLR's more time to take hold. I'm sure their point-n-shoot sales are being hit by 'no-name' competition, besides what Canon, Nikon, and other name brands are selling. Regards, Bob S. On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 11:21 PM, Boris Libermanbori...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/23/2012 07:06, P. J. Alling wrote: I think Sony may have abandoned their full frame line. Both are discontinued and have been for some time. A pity really since the A900 was supposed to be quite nice, and the A850 was very inexpensive for what it was. It might be so. A pity really. I wonder if Nikon D800's sensor has Sony hands on it. If so I wonder what kind of agreement is signed between the two companies. Boris -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Too bad most of the other parts of Sony don't seem to be making money either. I remember when I was a kid, my father got a Sony portable AM/FM radio that could fit in shirt pocket, (huge by today's standards). But compared to the competition was a.) Extremely well made, b.) still about half the size, c.) actually tuned in more than the most powerful signals. Most Sony products I've seen lately are no better than those from any other -manufacture- supplier, except they say Sony on them. On 4/24/2012 12:02 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote: I had heard some time (over a year) ago that some catastrophic setbacks in the production of their play station cost so much money, they would never make any money on it and would likely lose a load of money that would have to be made up through other parts of Sony. Jeffery On Apr 24, 2012, at 10:58 AM, Stan Halpin wrote: Recent articles in various newspaper business sections have talked about Sony Corp's attempts to stop losing money. The general impression is that they have far too many product lines with much competition rather than cooperation across various fiefdoms within the corporation. The new President (CEO?) has stated an intent to focus on three key products: TV's, digital imaging, and something else that I have forgotten. The previous President (CEO?) has stated that the strategy is a good one and that he was unable to get the various engineers to work toward common goals; everyone is apparently trying to be the one to develop the next Walkman. So he is skeptical that the strategy can be implemented. So anyway, SONY is in trouble, has stated an intent to keep digital imaging as one of a few key product lines, and we shall see. stan On Apr 23, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Boris, That's an interesting question. The rumor around here is that Sony is having profit problems. They should give the 35mm SLR's more time to take hold. I'm sure their point-n-shoot sales are being hit by 'no-name' competition, besides what Canon, Nikon, and other name brands are selling. Regards, Bob S. On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 11:21 PM, Boris Libermanbori...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/23/2012 07:06, P. J. Alling wrote: I think Sony may have abandoned their full frame line. Both are discontinued and have been for some time. A pity really since the A900 was supposed to be quite nice, and the A850 was very inexpensive for what it was. It might be so. A pity really. I wonder if Nikon D800's sensor has Sony hands on it. If so I wonder what kind of agreement is signed between the two companies. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Recent articles in various newspaper business sections have talked about Sony Corp's attempts to stop losing money. The general impression is that they have far too many product lines with much competition rather than cooperation across various fiefdoms within the corporation. The new President (CEO?) has stated an intent to focus on three key products: TV's, digital imaging, and something else that I have forgotten. The previous President (CEO?) has stated that the strategy is a good one and that he was unable to get the various engineers to work toward common goals; everyone is apparently trying to be the one to develop the next Walkman. So he is skeptical that the strategy can be implemented. So anyway, SONY is in trouble, has stated an intent to keep digital imaging as one of a few key product lines, and we shall see. stan On Apr 23, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Boris, That's an interesting question. The rumor around here is that Sony is having profit problems. They should give the 35mm SLR's more time to take hold. I'm sure their point-n-shoot sales are being hit by 'no-name' competition, besides what Canon, Nikon, and other name brands are selling. Regards, Bob S. On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 11:21 PM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/23/2012 07:06, P. J. Alling wrote: I think Sony may have abandoned their full frame line. Both are discontinued and have been for some time. A pity really since the A900 was supposed to be quite nice, and the A850 was very inexpensive for what it was. It might be so. A pity really. I wonder if Nikon D800's sensor has Sony hands on it. If so I wonder what kind of agreement is signed between the two companies. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
I had heard some time (over a year) ago that some catastrophic setbacks in the production of their play station cost so much money, they would never make any money on it and would likely lose a load of money that would have to be made up through other parts of Sony. Jeffery On Apr 24, 2012, at 10:58 AM, Stan Halpin wrote: Recent articles in various newspaper business sections have talked about Sony Corp's attempts to stop losing money. The general impression is that they have far too many product lines with much competition rather than cooperation across various fiefdoms within the corporation. The new President (CEO?) has stated an intent to focus on three key products: TV's, digital imaging, and something else that I have forgotten. The previous President (CEO?) has stated that the strategy is a good one and that he was unable to get the various engineers to work toward common goals; everyone is apparently trying to be the one to develop the next Walkman. So he is skeptical that the strategy can be implemented. So anyway, SONY is in trouble, has stated an intent to keep digital imaging as one of a few key product lines, and we shall see. stan On Apr 23, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Boris, That's an interesting question. The rumor around here is that Sony is having profit problems. They should give the 35mm SLR's more time to take hold. I'm sure their point-n-shoot sales are being hit by 'no-name' competition, besides what Canon, Nikon, and other name brands are selling. Regards, Bob S. On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 11:21 PM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/23/2012 07:06, P. J. Alling wrote: I think Sony may have abandoned their full frame line. Both are discontinued and have been for some time. A pity really since the A900 was supposed to be quite nice, and the A850 was very inexpensive for what it was. It might be so. A pity really. I wonder if Nikon D800's sensor has Sony hands on it. If so I wonder what kind of agreement is signed between the two companies. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
From: P. J. Alling I think Sony may have abandoned their full frame line. Both are discontinued and have been for some time. A pity really since the A900 was supposed to be quite nice, and the A850 was very inexpensive for what it was. Somebody around here would know. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Boris, That's an interesting question. The rumor around here is that Sony is having profit problems. They should give the 35mm SLR's more time to take hold. I'm sure their point-n-shoot sales are being hit by 'no-name' competition, besides what Canon, Nikon, and other name brands are selling. Regards, Bob S. On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 11:21 PM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/23/2012 07:06, P. J. Alling wrote: I think Sony may have abandoned their full frame line. Both are discontinued and have been for some time. A pity really since the A900 was supposed to be quite nice, and the A850 was very inexpensive for what it was. It might be so. A pity really. I wonder if Nikon D800's sensor has Sony hands on it. If so I wonder what kind of agreement is signed between the two companies. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Not exactly a rumor, Sony lost about 5 Billion dollars, yes dollars not yen, last quarter. They have a budget that puts a lot of smaller countries to shame. On 4/23/2012 11:44 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Boris, That's an interesting question. The rumor around here is that Sony is having profit problems. They should give the 35mm SLR's more time to take hold. I'm sure their point-n-shoot sales are being hit by 'no-name' competition, besides what Canon, Nikon, and other name brands are selling. Regards, Bob S. On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 11:21 PM, Boris Libermanbori...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/23/2012 07:06, P. J. Alling wrote: I think Sony may have abandoned their full frame line. Both are discontinued and have been for some time. A pity really since the A900 was supposed to be quite nice, and the A850 was very inexpensive for what it was. It might be so. A pity really. I wonder if Nikon D800's sensor has Sony hands on it. If so I wonder what kind of agreement is signed between the two companies. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Thankfully we're not that small, but 5e9 shekels would do us good I suppose. I think that Sony is in a bit of restructuring as of late, as they also are about to cut 1e5 jobs. Yet, they appear to have passed Nikon, who's now 3rd biggest, Canon still being the 1st. On 4/24/2012 00:18, P. J. Alling wrote: Not exactly a rumor, Sony lost about 5 Billion dollars, yes dollars not yen, last quarter. They have a budget that puts a lot of smaller countries to shame. On 4/23/2012 11:44 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Boris, That's an interesting question. The rumor around here is that Sony is having profit problems. They should give the 35mm SLR's more time to take hold. I'm sure their point-n-shoot sales are being hit by 'no-name' competition, besides what Canon, Nikon, and other name brands are selling. Regards, Bob S. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
The owners of both of the local stores in Raleigh told me the same thing. Pentax would not keep them as a dealer unless they *stocked in inventory* one of every item Pentax offered (excepting endoscopes). Both were existing dealers who had carried a fair amount of Pentax merchandise. This was before Hoya. From: P. J. Alling Pentax would actually have to respond to stores that want to carry them for this to even marginally work. The last local and by local I mean less than 25 miles away from where I sit, if you can call that local, full service, camera store tells me that they stopped carrying Pentax because after the last good sales rep retired, their calls went unanswered. On 4/18/2012 9:54 AM, David Parsons wrote: That makes perfect sense. While I'm not really keen on the actual prices being enforced (who likes to pay more?), getting the product in stores for a similar price as online may actually get me to shop in a store if I want to try a lens out. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Christine Nielsench...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On 4/20/2012 18:33, Tom C wrote: The NEX-7 is on the back-burner. I ordered it from Amazon last September and due to the flooding disaster in Thailand, production was delayed. I got an email from Amazon in late March saying it would ship in two days. At that point I had a different financial priority so I cancelled the order. I still find it highly desirable for a small light travel kit. Thanks for the other thoughts.For landscape work what I need most is resolution and accurate exposure. Tom C. I suppose that if you had bought NEX-7 thence, you'd have 24 MP and you would be less worried by 36 MP of D800. But seriously, it may well be a good thing that you did not buy NEX-7 as I suppose soon enough they will have to produce an upgrade anyway. Also Sony is long overdue with their upgrade of the full frame line - I think A900 and A850 are among the oldest on the market now (unless they've already been discontinued anyway). So may be next announcement from Sony would be worth your while... I should however point out that at least Canon don't cancel 5M2 having introduced 5M3. So they're allowing themselves to split the prices and either you get an oldish camera for fewer bucks or you shell out for new one. So it seems the affordable full frame camera prices took a dive towards USD 2500 during previous Moore cycle and now they're on the bounce, so to speak. Not talking here about how various FF DSLRs compare between themselves. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
I think Sony may have abandoned their full frame line. Both are discontinued and have been for some time. A pity really since the A900 was supposed to be quite nice, and the A850 was very inexpensive for what it was. On 4/22/2012 11:56 PM, Boris Liberman wrote: On 4/20/2012 18:33, Tom C wrote: The NEX-7 is on the back-burner. I ordered it from Amazon last September and due to the flooding disaster in Thailand, production was delayed. I got an email from Amazon in late March saying it would ship in two days. At that point I had a different financial priority so I cancelled the order. I still find it highly desirable for a small light travel kit. Thanks for the other thoughts.For landscape work what I need most is resolution and accurate exposure. Tom C. I suppose that if you had bought NEX-7 thence, you'd have 24 MP and you would be less worried by 36 MP of D800. But seriously, it may well be a good thing that you did not buy NEX-7 as I suppose soon enough they will have to produce an upgrade anyway. Also Sony is long overdue with their upgrade of the full frame line - I think A900 and A850 are among the oldest on the market now (unless they've already been discontinued anyway). So may be next announcement from Sony would be worth your while... I should however point out that at least Canon don't cancel 5M2 having introduced 5M3. So they're allowing themselves to split the prices and either you get an oldish camera for fewer bucks or you shell out for new one. So it seems the affordable full frame camera prices took a dive towards USD 2500 during previous Moore cycle and now they're on the bounce, so to speak. Not talking here about how various FF DSLRs compare between themselves. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On 4/23/2012 07:06, P. J. Alling wrote: I think Sony may have abandoned their full frame line. Both are discontinued and have been for some time. A pity really since the A900 was supposed to be quite nice, and the A850 was very inexpensive for what it was. It might be so. A pity really. I wonder if Nikon D800's sensor has Sony hands on it. If so I wonder what kind of agreement is signed between the two companies. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Pentax would actually have to respond to stores that want to carry them for this to even marginally work. The last local and by local I mean less than 25 miles away from where I sit, if you can call that local, full service, camera store tells me that they stopped carrying Pentax because after the last good sales rep retired, their calls went unanswered. On 4/18/2012 9:54 AM, David Parsons wrote: That makes perfect sense. While I'm not really keen on the actual prices being enforced (who likes to pay more?), getting the product in stores for a similar price as online may actually get me to shop in a store if I want to try a lens out. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Christine Nielsench...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
The best camera must be the 41MP Nokia - most MP per buck ;) Alex On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: The 645D is a 40MP camera. The D800/E is a 36MP camera. Cost per MP calculation: 645D is $250/MP 800E is $92/MP (K-5 is $62.50/MP if priced at $1000) In those terms, the 800E is delivering a lot of bang for the buck and there's a full compliment of AF lenses available. The D800E has 90% of the resolution of a 645D yet the cost is only 1/3 that of a 645D. The K-5 has about 48.5% the resolution of the D800E and the cost is slightly less than 1/3 that of a D800E. Both the D800E and K-5 offer significant bang for the buck. I agree with your rationale on the K-5, It's why I continued to buy Pentax after Pentax, K-mount after K-mount. On the other hand many people will find themselves scrounging for, or purchasing new FF lenses in K-mount, were Pentax to come out with a FF body. Using only legacy non-AF lenses or APS-C lenses on such a body would negate many of the potential benefits. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On 4/19/2012 5:02 PM, Larry Colen wrote: Hell, look at what Walt is getting with his collection of obsolete bodies and lenses that are old enough to vote. I wouldn't hold that against the whole company, though. :) In short, are you going to bitch about the prices of gear that you don't have? Or go out and take pictures with the gear that you do? I do feel like I get a lot of bang for my buck shooting Pentax -- absolutely love my old primes. -- Walt -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote: Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith... Regards, Bob S. I bought the k-5 with the intentions of picking up the 50-135 and 60-2509 at a later date, however thinking the cheaper prices would stick around for a while, so i could save up. However the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR is more expensive than the 60-250 at current list, so Dave On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com I'm certainly a value/bang-for the buck kind of guy. I'm terribly late to the K-5 party, but I'm hoping to snag one soon. I believe that it is *still* near the top of the heap (if not at the top) of the best APS-C cameras available today. I'm pretty pleased with the 20x30 prints I've seen from APS-C cameras and frankly, I don't think there are many images that I'm going larger than that with. I think it provides a lot of bang-for-the-buck particularly if one can buy one around $900 (body). I also think it is sort of amazing that I can get *still* probably within $75 for what I paid for my K-x (which I purchases as a low-mileage used kit) - which will help pay for the upgrade. That's value too. Comparing that to the Nikon 800/E (which is 3x the price of the K-5) is sort of like comparing a $25,000 Prius with a $75,000 Mercedes Benz CLS. They aren't really targeting the same demographic. If your discretionary income let's you afford some of the finer things in life, more power to you. A lot of people are going to have a harder time justifying an additional $2000 for a camera body, particularly if it also means they start from Square One on lenses and other accessories. (Frankly, a lot of the 800/E specs seem aimed more at videography than still.) If *Pentax* released a full frame camera with the 800's specs of only 4 FPS and top (real) ISO of 6400, you could hear the PentaxForums screams in Nebraska. I don't think the fact that there are far more expensive cars out there changes the bang-for-the-buck with the Prius and I'd say the same for the K-5. Should Pentax announce a full frame camera (I'm last of the true believers) particularly for in the neighborhood of $2700 that can take advantage of all your K-mount stuff, I'd think that would have to give one looking for another step-up pause. Well, I'm not saying the K-5 doesn't deliver bang for the buck even now. For me it's just a bit late in it's life cycle. I bought late into the K20D and late into the K-7 (had I waited a few more months I'd have had a K-5). So I'm determined not to do that again. I appreciate the accuracy of your arithmetic. $1000 vs. $3000 and $25,000 vs. $75000 are both factors of 3. :-) There's a $2000 difference in the first case and a $5 difference in the second. While being equivalent in magnitude, in real $ there's a huge difference. BTW, I'm not being argumentative, just blabbering. Let's start from the premise that most people wouldn't spend $3000 on a camera. I agree. In fact I can't justify it for myself (so I've compartmentalized that and hidden it away so I don't feel unduly guilty). The 645D is a $10,000 camera so even less people would purchase that. The 645D is a 40MP camera. The D800/E is a 36MP camera. Cost per MP calculation: 645D is $250/MP 800E is $92/MP (K-5 is $62.50/MP if priced at $1000) In those terms, the 800E is delivering a lot of bang for the buck and there's a full compliment of AF lenses available. The D800E has 90% of the resolution of a 645D yet the cost is only 1/3 that of a 645D. The K-5 has about 48.5% the resolution of the D800E and the cost is slightly less than 1/3 that of a D800E. Both the D800E and K-5 offer significant bang for the buck. I agree with your rationale on the K-5, It's why I continued to buy Pentax after Pentax, K-mount after K-mount. On the other hand many people will find themselves scrounging for, or purchasing new FF lenses in K-mount, were Pentax to come out with a FF body. Using only legacy non-AF lenses or APS-C lenses on such a body would negate many of the potential benefits. For me though, I think the time has come where I ask 'do I keep on spending money on Pentax?'. I think the 645D, the Q, and the K-01 are all further signs of a company that's out of touch with reality (I don't deny the same for myself sometimes). The fact that they don't have their DSLR's in mass-market brick and mortar retail outlets is another sign. Have they just awoken to the fact it may be a good idea? Looked at another way, if I'd not bought a K20D (or K-7), had not bought about $2500 of K-mount lenses in the past 4
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Boris wrote: I thought that bitching was kind of allocated for PentaxForums crowds... ;-) Seriously, however, I can totally feel for you, Tom, because as you said in another message for your landscape work pixel count is most valuable. I thought by the way that you were going to get (already had gotten?) Sony NEX-7 which is both small and boasts the 24 MP sensor. I should point out that I recently had a change to shoot with Nikon D700 + their top of the line 24-70/2.8 zoom and some high end flash for about an hour straight. The combo is amazing in terms of ease of use, reliability and predictably good results. The flash is outstanding. The lens is sharp. Camera is responsive and seemingly knows what I wanna do. I'm kind of not very fond of Nikon colors but I certainly can learn to work with or around that. The only real issue I am having personally with this gear is its size and weight. With my rather weak wrists I really felt physical pain and fatigue at the end of that hour fun shoot. The frames came out very good but I kind of crawled back to my K-5 with DA*16-50/2.8 (allegedly comparable gear in Pentax-land) and all of a sudden it did not feel all that big and heavy. In your case, I think that 36 million of pixels that are at least as good as those of K-5 (that's what it seems they're saying out there) is indeed very desirable proposition. Boris The NEX-7 is on the back-burner. I ordered it from Amazon last September and due to the flooding disaster in Thailand, production was delayed. I got an email from Amazon in late March saying it would ship in two days. At that point I had a different financial priority so I cancelled the order. I still find it highly desirable for a small light travel kit. Thanks for the other thoughts.For landscape work what I need most is resolution and accurate exposure. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Paul, I've managed with my A300/4 and the DA60-250. I'd like the 500/4 for birding. The A300 plus the AF1.7X comes close, but the image quality could be better. I see the guys like Ken Waller running around with big glass on Wembly head and I'm jealous. Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Apr 19, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. I believe Pentax has a 500/4 on the lens timeline that will be available next year. There's also a 300 and a 200, and of course the 60-250. No real shortage of lenses IMO. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith… What do you want to shoot that you can't shoot with your K-5? Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com I'm certainly a value/bang-for the buck kind of guy. I'm terribly late to the K-5 party, but I'm hoping to snag one soon. I believe that it is *still* near the top of the heap (if not at the top) of the best APS-C cameras available today. I'm pretty pleased with the 20x30 prints I've seen from APS-C cameras and frankly, I don't think there are many images that I'm going larger than that with. I think it provides a lot of bang-for-the-buck particularly if one can buy one around $900 (body). I also think it is sort of amazing that I can get *still* probably within $75 for what I paid for my K-x (which I purchases as a low-mileage used kit) - which will help pay for the upgrade. That's value too. Comparing that to the Nikon 800/E (which is 3x the price of the K-5) is sort of like comparing a $25,000 Prius with a $75,000 Mercedes Benz CLS. They aren't really targeting the same demographic. If your discretionary income let's you afford some of the finer things in life, more power to you. A lot of people are going to have a harder time justifying an additional $2000 for a camera body, particularly if it also means they start from Square One on lenses and other accessories. (Frankly, a lot of the 800/E specs seem aimed more at videography than still.) If *Pentax* released a full frame camera with the 800's specs of only 4 FPS and top (real) ISO of 6400, you could hear the PentaxForums screams in Nebraska. I don't think the fact that there are far more expensive cars out there changes the bang-for-the-buck with the Prius and I'd say the same for the K-5. Should Pentax announce a full frame camera (I'm last of the true believers) particularly for in the neighborhood of $2700 that can take advantage of all your K-mount stuff, I'd think that would have to give one looking for another step-up pause. Well, I'm not saying the K-5 doesn't deliver bang for the buck even now. For me it's just a bit late in it's life cycle. I bought late into the K20D and late into the K-7 (had I waited a few more months I'd have had a K-5). So I'm determined not to do that again. I appreciate the accuracy of your arithmetic. $1000 vs. $3000 and $25,000 vs. $75000 are both factors of 3. :-) There's a $2000 difference in the first case and a $5 difference in the second. While being equivalent in magnitude, in real $ there's a huge difference. BTW, I'm not being argumentative, just blabbering. Let's start from the premise that most people wouldn't spend $3000 on a camera. I agree. In fact I can't justify it for myself (so I've compartmentalized that and hidden it away so I don't feel unduly guilty). The 645D is a $10,000 camera so even less people would purchase that. The 645D is a 40MP camera. The D800/E is a 36MP camera. Cost per MP calculation: 645D is $250/MP 800E is $92/MP (K-5 is $62.50/MP if priced at $1000) In those terms, the 800E is delivering a lot of bang for the buck and there's a full compliment of AF lenses available. The D800E has 90% of the resolution of a 645D yet the cost is only 1/3 that of a 645D. The K-5 has about 48.5% the resolution of the D800E and the cost is slightly less than 1/3 that of a D800E. Both the D800E and K-5 offer significant bang for the buck. I agree with your rationale on the K-5, It's why I continued to buy Pentax after Pentax, K-mount after K-mount. On the other hand many people will find themselves scrounging for, or purchasing new FF lenses in K-mount, were Pentax to come out with a FF body. Using only legacy non-AF lenses or APS-C lenses on such a body would negate many of the potential benefits. For me though, I think the time has come where I ask 'do I keep on spending money on Pentax?'. I think the 645D, the Q, and the K-01 are all further signs of a company that's out of touch with reality (I don't deny the same for myself
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
I see the guys like Ken Waller running around with big glass on Wembly head and I'm jealous. Ah yes lens envy! Actually, Bob I use a 'King Cobra' head from Kirk and I don't run around with that rig like I use to. ;+) Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... Paul, I've managed with my A300/4 and the DA60-250. I'd like the 500/4 for birding. The A300 plus the AF1.7X comes close, but the image quality could be better. I see the guys like Ken Waller running around with big glass on Wembly head and I'm jealous. Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Apr 19, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. I believe Pentax has a 500/4 on the lens timeline that will be available next year. There's also a 300 and a 200, and of course the 60-250. No real shortage of lenses IMO. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith… What do you want to shoot that you can't shoot with your K-5? Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com I'm certainly a value/bang-for the buck kind of guy. I'm terribly late to the K-5 party, but I'm hoping to snag one soon. I believe that it is *still* near the top of the heap (if not at the top) of the best APS-C cameras available today. I'm pretty pleased with the 20x30 prints I've seen from APS-C cameras and frankly, I don't think there are many images that I'm going larger than that with. I think it provides a lot of bang-for-the-buck particularly if one can buy one around $900 (body). I also think it is sort of amazing that I can get *still* probably within $75 for what I paid for my K-x (which I purchases as a low-mileage used kit) - which will help pay for the upgrade. That's value too. Comparing that to the Nikon 800/E (which is 3x the price of the K-5) is sort of like comparing a $25,000 Prius with a $75,000 Mercedes Benz CLS. They aren't really targeting the same demographic. If your discretionary income let's you afford some of the finer things in life, more power to you. A lot of people are going to have a harder time justifying an additional $2000 for a camera body, particularly if it also means they start from Square One on lenses and other accessories. (Frankly, a lot of the 800/E specs seem aimed more at videography than still.) If *Pentax* released a full frame camera with the 800's specs of only 4 FPS and top (real) ISO of 6400, you could hear the PentaxForums screams in Nebraska. I don't think the fact that there are far more expensive cars out there changes the bang-for-the-buck with the Prius and I'd say the same for the K-5. Should Pentax announce a full frame camera (I'm last of the true believers) particularly for in the neighborhood of $2700 that can take advantage of all your K-mount stuff, I'd think that would have to give one looking for another step-up pause. Well, I'm not saying the K-5 doesn't deliver bang for the buck even now. For me it's just a bit late in it's life cycle. I bought late into the K20D and late into the K-7 (had I waited a few more months I'd have had a K-5). So I'm determined not to do that again. I appreciate the accuracy of your arithmetic. $1000 vs. $3000 and $25,000 vs. $75000 are both factors of 3. :-) There's a $2000 difference in the first case and a $5 difference in the second. While being equivalent in magnitude, in real $ there's a huge difference. BTW, I'm not being argumentative, just blabbering. Let's start from the premise that most people wouldn't spend $3000 on a camera. I agree. In fact I can't justify it for myself (so I've compartmentalized that and hidden it away so I don't feel unduly guilty). The 645D is a $10,000 camera so even less people would purchase that. The 645D is a 40MP camera. The D800/E is a 36MP camera. Cost per MP calculation: 645D is $250/MP 800E is $92/MP (K-5 is $62.50/MP if priced at $1000) In those terms, the 800E is delivering a lot of bang for the buck and there's a full compliment of AF lenses available. The D800E has 90% of the resolution of a 645D yet the cost is only 1/3 that of a 645D. The K-5 has about 48.5% the resolution of the D800E and the cost is slightly less than 1/3 that of a D800E. Both the D800E and K-5 offer significant bang for the buck. I agree with your rationale on the K-5, It's why I continued to buy Pentax after Pentax, K-mount after K-mount. On the other hand many people will find themselves scrounging for, or purchasing new FF lenses in K-mount, were Pentax to come out with a FF body. Using only legacy
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Ken, Earlier this year, Lynn I visited her old hometown, the Quad-cities. We spent an hour or two at Mississippi Lock Dam #14 on the Iowa side. The Bald Eagles were nesting above the parking lot, and 2 or 3 carloads of photographers in showmobile suits were wandering about. They had big glass and gimbal mounts on their tripods. When I see all those folks with big glass, I get jealous. (And Lynn doesn't think I'm crazy when I want one of those.) Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 2:33 PM, kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I see the guys like Ken Waller running around with big glass on Wembly head and I'm jealous. Ah yes lens envy! Actually, Bob I use a 'King Cobra' head from Kirk and I don't run around with that rig like I use to. ;+) Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... Paul, I've managed with my A300/4 and the DA60-250. I'd like the 500/4 for birding. The A300 plus the AF1.7X comes close, but the image quality could be better. I see the guys like Ken Waller running around with big glass on Wembly head and I'm jealous. Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Apr 19, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. I believe Pentax has a 500/4 on the lens timeline that will be available next year. There's also a 300 and a 200, and of course the 60-250. No real shortage of lenses IMO. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith… What do you want to shoot that you can't shoot with your K-5? Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com I'm certainly a value/bang-for the buck kind of guy. I'm terribly late to the K-5 party, but I'm hoping to snag one soon. I believe that it is *still* near the top of the heap (if not at the top) of the best APS-C cameras available today. I'm pretty pleased with the 20x30 prints I've seen from APS-C cameras and frankly, I don't think there are many images that I'm going larger than that with. I think it provides a lot of bang-for-the-buck particularly if one can buy one around $900 (body). I also think it is sort of amazing that I can get *still* probably within $75 for what I paid for my K-x (which I purchases as a low-mileage used kit) - which will help pay for the upgrade. That's value too. Comparing that to the Nikon 800/E (which is 3x the price of the K-5) is sort of like comparing a $25,000 Prius with a $75,000 Mercedes Benz CLS. They aren't really targeting the same demographic. If your discretionary income let's you afford some of the finer things in life, more power to you. A lot of people are going to have a harder time justifying an additional $2000 for a camera body, particularly if it also means they start from Square One on lenses and other accessories. (Frankly, a lot of the 800/E specs seem aimed more at videography than still.) If *Pentax* released a full frame camera with the 800's specs of only 4 FPS and top (real) ISO of 6400, you could hear the PentaxForums screams in Nebraska. I don't think the fact that there are far more expensive cars out there changes the bang-for-the-buck with the Prius and I'd say the same for the K-5. Should Pentax announce a full frame camera (I'm last of the true believers) particularly for in the neighborhood of $2700 that can take advantage of all your K-mount stuff, I'd think that would have to give one looking for another step-up pause. Well, I'm not saying the K-5 doesn't deliver bang for the buck even now. For me it's just a bit late in it's life cycle. I bought late into the K20D and late into the K-7 (had I waited a few more months I'd have had a K-5). So I'm determined not to do that again. I appreciate the accuracy of your arithmetic. $1000 vs. $3000 and $25,000 vs. $75000 are both factors of 3. :-) There's a $2000 difference in the first case and a $5 difference in the second. While being equivalent in magnitude, in real $ there's a huge difference. BTW, I'm not being argumentative, just blabbering. Let's start from the premise that most people wouldn't spend $3000 on a camera. I agree. In fact I can't justify it for myself (so I've compartmentalized that and hidden it away so I don't feel unduly guilty). The 645D is a $10,000 camera so even less people would purchase that. The 645D is a 40MP camera. The D800/E is a 36MP camera. Cost per MP calculation: 645D is $250/MP 800E is $92/MP (K-5 is $62.50/MP if priced at $1000) In those terms, the 800E is delivering a lot of bang
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Actually Bob, my wife was the one that pushed me over the edge on the big lens thing. We had been to Alaska numerous times and I'd always come home with some decent images but bemoaned the fact that I could have gotten much better/more images if I only had the 'big lens'. My biggest at that time was a 300 f4.5 FA. One Christmas I noted a 600 f4 for sale at KEH and told my wife about it. So she says what are you waiting for - go get it. By the time I got to call KEH, it was gone. I called the regional Pentax guy and told him what I wanted asked if he knew of any used ones available. He called back with good news/bad news - the bad news was there were no used 600s available as far as he knew, but the good news was he had a brand new 600 FA sitting in his office and he would sell it to me at his cost ! Another $1300 later I had the gimbal head, lens backpack and tripod needed to haul around and use the 600. Its been to Alaska with me several times and I've never regretted having it. But with the way airlines are now I doubt I'll ever fly with it again. Back then I could get it into the overhead on most planes. I had flown with it to South Dakota when 911 occurred and because the airline couldn't guarantee I could carry it on board, I rented a car and drove it home. I've had several inquires about selling it but so far have refused. Its one of those things I could never justify but sure enjoy using. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... Ken, Earlier this year, Lynn I visited her old hometown, the Quad-cities. We spent an hour or two at Mississippi Lock Dam #14 on the Iowa side. The Bald Eagles were nesting above the parking lot, and 2 or 3 carloads of photographers in showmobile suits were wandering about. They had big glass and gimbal mounts on their tripods. When I see all those folks with big glass, I get jealous. (And Lynn doesn't think I'm crazy when I want one of those.) Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 2:33 PM, kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I see the guys like Ken Waller running around with big glass on Wembly head and I'm jealous. Ah yes lens envy! Actually, Bob I use a 'King Cobra' head from Kirk and I don't run around with that rig like I use to. ;+) Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... Paul, I've managed with my A300/4 and the DA60-250. I'd like the 500/4 for birding. The A300 plus the AF1.7X comes close, but the image quality could be better. I see the guys like Ken Waller running around with big glass on Wembly head and I'm jealous. Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Apr 19, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. I believe Pentax has a 500/4 on the lens timeline that will be available next year. There's also a 300 and a 200, and of course the 60-250. No real shortage of lenses IMO. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith… What do you want to shoot that you can't shoot with your K-5? Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com I'm certainly a value/bang-for the buck kind of guy. I'm terribly late to the K-5 party, but I'm hoping to snag one soon. I believe that it is *still* near the top of the heap (if not at the top) of the best APS-C cameras available today. I'm pretty pleased with the 20x30 prints I've seen from APS-C cameras and frankly, I don't think there are many images that I'm going larger than that with. I think it provides a lot of bang-for-the-buck particularly if one can buy one around $900 (body). I also think it is sort of amazing that I can get *still* probably within $75 for what I paid for my K-x (which I purchases as a low-mileage used kit) - which will help pay for the upgrade. That's value too. Comparing that to the Nikon 800/E (which is 3x the price of the K-5) is sort of like comparing a $25,000 Prius with a $75,000 Mercedes Benz CLS. They aren't really targeting the same demographic. If your discretionary income let's you afford some of the finer things in life, more power to you. A lot of people are going to have a harder time justifying an additional $2000 for a camera body, particularly if it also means they start from Square One on lenses and other accessories. (Frankly, a lot of the 800/E specs seem aimed more at videography than still.) If *Pentax* released a full frame camera with the 800's specs of only 4 FPS
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com I'm certainly a value/bang-for the buck kind of guy. I'm terribly late to the K-5 party, but I'm hoping to snag one soon. I believe that it is *still* near the top of the heap (if not at the top) of the best APS-C cameras available today. I'm pretty pleased with the 20x30 prints I've seen from APS-C cameras and frankly, I don't think there are many images that I'm going larger than that with. I think it provides a lot of bang-for-the-buck particularly if one can buy one around $900 (body). I also think it is sort of amazing that I can get *still* probably within $75 for what I paid for my K-x (which I purchases as a low-mileage used kit) - which will help pay for the upgrade. That's value too. Comparing that to the Nikon 800/E (which is 3x the price of the K-5) is sort of like comparing a $25,000 Prius with a $75,000 Mercedes Benz CLS. They aren't really targeting the same demographic. If your discretionary income let's you afford some of the finer things in life, more power to you. A lot of people are going to have a harder time justifying an additional $2000 for a camera body, particularly if it also means they start from Square One on lenses and other accessories. (Frankly, a lot of the 800/E specs seem aimed more at videography than still.) If *Pentax* released a full frame camera with the 800's specs of only 4 FPS and top (real) ISO of 6400, you could hear the PentaxForums screams in Nebraska. I don't think the fact that there are far more expensive cars out there changes the bang-for-the-buck with the Prius and I'd say the same for the K-5. Should Pentax announce a full frame camera (I'm last of the true believers) particularly for in the neighborhood of $2700 that can take advantage of all your K-mount stuff, I'd think that would have to give one looking for another step-up pause. Well, I'm not saying the K-5 doesn't deliver bang for the buck even now. For me it's just a bit late in it's life cycle. I bought late into the K20D and late into the K-7 (had I waited a few more months I'd have had a K-5). So I'm determined not to do that again. I appreciate the accuracy of your arithmetic. $1000 vs. $3000 and $25,000 vs. $75000 are both factors of 3. :-) There's a $2000 difference in the first case and a $5 difference in the second. While being equivalent in magnitude, in real $ there's a huge difference. BTW, I'm not being argumentative, just blabbering. Let's start from the premise that most people wouldn't spend $3000 on a camera. I agree. In fact I can't justify it for myself (so I've compartmentalized that and hidden it away so I don't feel unduly guilty). The 645D is a $10,000 camera so even less people would purchase that. The 645D is a 40MP camera. The D800/E is a 36MP camera. Cost per MP calculation: 645D is $250/MP 800E is $92/MP (K-5 is $62.50/MP if priced at $1000) In those terms, the 800E is delivering a lot of bang for the buck and there's a full compliment of AF lenses available. The D800E has 90% of the resolution of a 645D yet the cost is only 1/3 that of a 645D. The K-5 has about 48.5% the resolution of the D800E and the cost is slightly less than 1/3 that of a D800E. Both the D800E and K-5 offer significant bang for the buck. I agree with your rationale on the K-5, It's why I continued to buy Pentax after Pentax, K-mount after K-mount. On the other hand many people will find themselves scrounging for, or purchasing new FF lenses in K-mount, were Pentax to come out with a FF body. Using only legacy non-AF lenses or APS-C lenses on such a body would negate many of the potential benefits. For me though, I think the time has come where I ask 'do I keep on spending money on Pentax?'. I think the 645D, the Q, and the K-01 are all further signs of a company that's out of touch with reality (I don't deny the same for myself sometimes). The fact that they don't have their DSLR's in mass-market brick and mortar retail outlets is another sign. Have they just awoken to the fact it may be a good idea? Looked at another way, if I'd not bought a K20D (or K-7), had not bought about $2500 of K-mount lenses in the past 4 years, I could easily have paid for a D800E. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith... Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com I'm certainly a value/bang-for the buck kind of guy. I'm terribly late to the K-5 party, but I'm hoping to snag one soon. I believe that it is *still* near the top of the heap (if not at the top) of the best APS-C cameras available today. I'm pretty pleased with the 20x30 prints I've seen from APS-C cameras and frankly, I don't think there are many images that I'm going larger than that with. I think it provides a lot of bang-for-the-buck particularly if one can buy one around $900 (body). I also think it is sort of amazing that I can get *still* probably within $75 for what I paid for my K-x (which I purchases as a low-mileage used kit) - which will help pay for the upgrade. That's value too. Comparing that to the Nikon 800/E (which is 3x the price of the K-5) is sort of like comparing a $25,000 Prius with a $75,000 Mercedes Benz CLS. They aren't really targeting the same demographic. If your discretionary income let's you afford some of the finer things in life, more power to you. A lot of people are going to have a harder time justifying an additional $2000 for a camera body, particularly if it also means they start from Square One on lenses and other accessories. (Frankly, a lot of the 800/E specs seem aimed more at videography than still.) If *Pentax* released a full frame camera with the 800's specs of only 4 FPS and top (real) ISO of 6400, you could hear the PentaxForums screams in Nebraska. I don't think the fact that there are far more expensive cars out there changes the bang-for-the-buck with the Prius and I'd say the same for the K-5. Should Pentax announce a full frame camera (I'm last of the true believers) particularly for in the neighborhood of $2700 that can take advantage of all your K-mount stuff, I'd think that would have to give one looking for another step-up pause. Well, I'm not saying the K-5 doesn't deliver bang for the buck even now. For me it's just a bit late in it's life cycle. I bought late into the K20D and late into the K-7 (had I waited a few more months I'd have had a K-5). So I'm determined not to do that again. I appreciate the accuracy of your arithmetic. $1000 vs. $3000 and $25,000 vs. $75000 are both factors of 3. :-) There's a $2000 difference in the first case and a $5 difference in the second. While being equivalent in magnitude, in real $ there's a huge difference. BTW, I'm not being argumentative, just blabbering. Let's start from the premise that most people wouldn't spend $3000 on a camera. I agree. In fact I can't justify it for myself (so I've compartmentalized that and hidden it away so I don't feel unduly guilty). The 645D is a $10,000 camera so even less people would purchase that. The 645D is a 40MP camera. The D800/E is a 36MP camera. Cost per MP calculation: 645D is $250/MP 800E is $92/MP (K-5 is $62.50/MP if priced at $1000) In those terms, the 800E is delivering a lot of bang for the buck and there's a full compliment of AF lenses available. The D800E has 90% of the resolution of a 645D yet the cost is only 1/3 that of a 645D. The K-5 has about 48.5% the resolution of the D800E and the cost is slightly less than 1/3 that of a D800E. Both the D800E and K-5 offer significant bang for the buck. I agree with your rationale on the K-5, It's why I continued to buy Pentax after Pentax, K-mount after K-mount. On the other hand many people will find themselves scrounging for, or purchasing new FF lenses in K-mount, were Pentax to come out with a FF body. Using only legacy non-AF lenses or APS-C lenses on such a body would negate many of the potential benefits. For me though, I think the time has come where I ask 'do I keep on spending money on Pentax?'. I think the 645D, the Q, and the K-01 are all further signs of a company that's out of touch with reality (I don't deny the same for myself sometimes). The fact that they don't have their DSLR's in mass-market brick and mortar retail outlets is another sign. Have they just awoken to the fact it may be a good idea? Looked at another way, if I'd not bought a K20D (or K-7), had not bought about $2500 of K-mount lenses in the past 4 years, I could easily have paid for a D800E. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
on 2012-04-18 17:30 Stan Halpin wrote So Tom, are you saying that the only reason you and others use Pentax gear is to get a lower price? I, and at least a few others, use Pentax because we prefer their product to Nikon, Canon, and other brands. i bought my K200d because it seemed like a better value, plain and simple, with weather seals and pretty good kit lenses; this was after over-analyzing a bit, after having used a string of non-Pentax SLRs ending with my first digicam (Canon PowerShot G3) which was all i used for about four years; at that point the DSLR market was moving fast and prices were coming down; i had some Canon lenses, but when an acquaintance handed me his low-end Canon DSLR in 2007 or so and it felt cheap, i started to question my assumptions i was strongly tempted by the Panasonic L1 when it went on fire-sale, but settled on the K200d as a trip was looming though i was no stranger to used lenses, i didn't wake up to the legacy Pentax ecosystem for a year or two; that is a big part what has kept me loyal, along with the idea that a used K-5 might up my game picked up an FA 28/2.8 yesterday at Goodwill (attached to a ZX-5n); it's in great shape, and i bought some cheap film to test the ZX-5n (and maybe the ZX-10 and ZX-50 and ME Super that have come attached to other lenses); time to simplify ... the old Pentax lenses that add so much value to the line also work on many of the EVIL cameras, so i wonder if Pentax thinks its value proposition must now rely less on these -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith... Regards, Bob S. In terms of affordable DSLR's at the top-end, Pentax has only been near the top of the heap with the K-5 in the APS-C arena, sharing that platform with the D7000 and EOS 7D, from what I can tell, each having positives and negatives to consider. I've felt I was getting good value for the money with Pentax, upgrading bodies because I had a number of lenses. To that point, I have no complaints. I do wish every good shot I'd gotten with the *istD was with the K-7. :-) However, if I'm going to be on an upgrade treadmill, I've sort of come to the conclusion that I'd prefer to be on that treadmill with a market leader and innovator. Canon and Nikon are not perfect either, but they seem to be years ahead of Pentax in their high end offerings. I have no doubt the 645D produces nice images but it is a very niche item with limited lenses available, is large, and is about to be eclipsed (if not already) by cameras 1/3 it's price. An impetus for my feeling this way is the new lens pricing policy. I've damaged my DA 14/2.8 and a new one is almost $1000. The deeper I let Pentax into my pocket the harder it will be to get them out. A new lens and a K-5 is almost 2/3 the price of a D800E. So I sort of feel like now (the next 3- 6 months) is the time to break. The D800E is significant enough a jump in terms of resolution and enough of a decrease in price, compared to the D3X (2/3 the resolution of a D800, yet more than 2X the price), that I can just start to rationalize it. I may be shooting with a limited stable of lenses for a while, but that'll gradually change. If going on a special trip I can always rent lenses. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Quoting Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com: Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith... I hate to say it, but same here. If the reported $699 price of the Nikon D3200 is correct, it's in the price range I'm interested in, and if I sell off some Pentax gear I could afford a few lenses as well. Not sure I'm going to jump, but the next six months will tell . Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com I'm certainly a value/bang-for the buck kind of guy. I'm terribly late to the K-5 party, but I'm hoping to snag one soon. I believe that it is *still* near the top of the heap (if not at the top) of the best APS-C cameras available today. I'm pretty pleased with the 20x30 prints I've seen from APS-C cameras and frankly, I don't think there are many images that I'm going larger than that with. I think it provides a lot of bang-for-the-buck particularly if one can buy one around $900 (body). I also think it is sort of amazing that I can get *still* probably within $75 for what I paid for my K-x nbsp;(which I purchases as a low-mileage used kit) - which will help pay for the upgrade. That's value too. Comparing that to the Nikon 800/E (which is 3x the price of the K-5) is sort of like comparing a $25,000 Prius with a $75,000 Mercedes Benz CLS. They aren't really targeting the same demographic. If your discretionary income let's you afford some of the finer things in life, more power to you. A lot of people are going to have a harder time justifying an additional $2000 for a camera body, particularly if it also means they start from Square One on lenses and other accessories. (Frankly, a lot of the 800/E specs seem aimed more at videography than still.) If *Pentax* released a full frame camera with the 800's specs of only 4 FPS and top (real) ISO of 6400, you could hear the PentaxForums screams in Nebraska. I don't think the fact that there are far more expensive cars out there changes the bang-for-the-buck with the Prius and I'd say the same for the K-5. Should Pentax announce a full frame camera (I'm last of the true believers) particularly for in the neighborhood of $2700 that can take advantage of all your K-mount stuff, I'd think that would have to give one looking for another step-up pause. Well, I'm not saying the K-5 doesn't deliver bang for the buck even now. For me it's just a bit late in it's life cycle. I bought late into the K20D and late into the K-7 (had I waited a few more months I'd have had a K-5). So I'm determined not to do that again. I appreciate the accuracy of your arithmetic. $1000 vs. $3000 and $25,000 vs. $75000 are both factors of 3. :-) There's a $2000 difference in the first case and a $5 difference in the second. While being equivalent in magnitude, in real $ there's a huge difference. BTW, I'm not being argumentative, just blabbering. Let's start from the premise that most people wouldn't spend $3000 on a camera. I agree. In fact I can't justify it for myself (so I've compartmentalized that and hidden it away so I don't feel unduly guilty). The 645D is a $10,000 camera so even less people would purchase that. The 645D is a 40MP camera. The D800/E is a 36MP camera. Cost per MP calculation: 645D is $250/MP 800E is $92/MP (K-5 is $62.50/MP if priced at $1000) In those terms, the 800E is delivering a lot of bang for the buck and there's a full compliment of AF lenses available. The D800E has 90% of the resolution of a 645D yet the cost is only 1/3 that of a 645D. The K-5 has about 48.5% the resolution of the D800E and the cost is slightly less than 1/3 that of a D800E. Both the D800E and K-5 offer significant bang for the buck. I agree with your rationale on the K-5, It's why I continued to buy Pentax after Pentax, K-mount after K-mount. On the other hand many people will find themselves scrounging for, or purchasing new FF lenses in K-mount, were Pentax to come out with a FF body. nbsp;Using only legacy non-AF lenses or APS-C lenses on such a body would negate many of the potential benefits. For me though, I think the time has come where I ask 'do I keep on spending money on Pentax?'. I think the 645D, the Q, and the K-01 are all further signs of a company that's out of touch with reality (I don't deny the same for myself sometimes). The fact that they don't have their DSLR's in mass-market brick and mortar retail outlets is another sign. Have they just awoken to the fact it may be a good idea? Looked at another way, if I'd not bought a K20D (or K-7), had not bought about
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On 4/19/2012 1:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith... Regards, Bob S. You are right, Pentax is not always the right tool for the job. But, sometimes it is. It would be nice if I could get a camera the size, quietness and price of the K-5, the low light sensitivity of the D3, the resolution of the D800, the fast long lenses of Canon, the view finder of the 645D and so forth. The problem is, you can't have everything. Good, fast, cheap, pick any two. If you want high magnification, and a fast aperture, you'll want to shoot with an APS sensor. Full frame means that for the same magnification and speed the lens needs to be 1.5 times as long, a bit over times the cross sectional area, and about 3.3 times the volume (weight), and probably closer to four or five times the cost. If you need a long fast lens, and Pentax doesn't make one, buy a D7000 to leave it mounted on. It'll add $1,000 to the cost of a $5,000 lens, but it's a lot cheaper than switching systems. A buddy of mine from the dojo has a D700, when we're both photographing belt tests, where we want to be unobtrusive, the difference in noise between the D700 and the K-5 is amazing. I was photographing at a blues dance a while back, hand held, mostly with the FA31. Someone else there had what looked like a 5DII, he needed to use a flash. Granted, he might have gotten away with a 50/1.4 and a monopod, but for hand held low light shooting, I'll even save $400 off my combination and put a K-5 with a Sigma 30/1.4 up against anything on the market that you can get for under $4,000 (though I suspect that you'd need $6,000 to beat it). Let's say that Ned is right, in order to get Pentax into more stores, they have to be more aggressive about enforcing pricing. One thing that they can't do, while their existing customers have a bunch of stock on the shelves is drop MSRP too much. It's possible that they might be able to tell their customers that they are dropping MSRP, or maybe even wholesale cost in the future, so that the customers don't have a lot of inventory on their shelves that they will be forced to sell at a loss. But, if they do, they can't make an announcement until the customers have had a chance to sell off some of their back stock. I'm bummed, there are a few lenses very high on my wish list, that if I had a little more money or even less financial sense, I'd already own. I've been watching the prices on those lenses go up to the point where the 35-135 probably costs what it and the DA35 macro together would have cost me a couple years ago. Oh well, sucks to be me. In the mean time I still have a kit that'll go out and kick butt on kits that cost several times what I've got invested in mine. Hell, look at what Walt is getting with his collection of obsolete bodies and lenses that are old enough to vote. In short, are you going to bitch about the prices of gear that you don't have? Or go out and take pictures with the gear that you do? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
An impetus for my feeling this way is the new lens pricing policy. I've damaged my DA 14/2.8 and a new one is almost $1000. The deeper I let Pentax into my pocket the harder it will be to get them out. A new lens and a K-5 is almost 2/3 the price of a D800E. That 14/2.8 is currently $949.50 at BH. I just came across my receipt from when bought it in 2008. $549.00 Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
In short, are you going to bitch about the prices of gear that you don't have? Or go out and take pictures with the gear that you do? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est) I reserve the right to both bitch AND take pretty pictures with my crappy gear. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On 4/19/2012 3:33 PM, Tom C wrote: In short, are you going to bitch about the prices of gear that you don't have? Or go out and take pictures with the gear that you do? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est) I reserve the right to both bitch AND take pretty pictures with my crappy gear. And that, in a nutshell, is what the PDML is all about. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On Apr 19, 2012, at 6:33 PM, Tom C wrote: In short, are you going to bitch about the prices of gear that you don't have? Or go out and take pictures with the gear that you do? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est) I reserve the right to both bitch AND take pretty pictures with my crappy gear. Tom C. And it is certainly a tribute to your photographic skills that you are able to take such fine pictures with such a limited system! (;-) My mother in her later years commented I don't mind change; I just would rather that things stayed the same. I believe that I take after her. All other things aside - cost, value, quality, service, availability, size, etc. etc. - I've been using Pentax gear since 1982. The only way that Pentax equipment has even remotely limited my photography has been the relative paucity of long lenses. And if they made fast long lenses, I probably couldn't afford them. So as long as Pentax keeps making DSLR's I expect to keep buying them. For now the K-20 suits me fine, I have avoided the K-7 and K-5 because of comments about changes in the interface and because of a reduction in the size of the body. If I had had a chance to see and handle these latter cameras I might well have bought those as well . .. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Larry, very well spoken (wait typed), Joe On 4/19/2012 1:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith... Regards, Bob S. You are right, Pentax is not always the right tool for the job. But, sometimes it is. It would be nice if I could get a camera the size, quietness and price of the K-5, the low light sensitivity of the D3, the resolution of the D800, the fast long lenses of Canon, the view finder of the 645D and so forth. The problem is, you can't have everything. Good, fast, cheap, pick any two. If you want high magnification, and a fast aperture, you'll want to shoot with an APS sensor. Full frame means that for the same magnification and speed the lens needs to be 1.5 times as long, a bit over times the cross sectional area, and about 3.3 times the volume (weight), and probably closer to four or five times the cost. If you need a long fast lens, and Pentax doesn't make one, buy a D7000 to leave it mounted on. It'll add $1,000 to the cost of a $5,000 lens, but it's a lot cheaper than switching systems. A buddy of mine from the dojo has a D700, when we're both photographing belt tests, where we want to be unobtrusive, the difference in noise between the D700 and the K-5 is amazing. I was photographing at a blues dance a while back, hand held, mostly with the FA31. Someone else there had what looked like a 5DII, he needed to use a flash. Granted, he might have gotten away with a 50/1.4 and a monopod, but for hand held low light shooting, I'll even save $400 off my combination and put a K-5 with a Sigma 30/1.4 up against anything on the market that you can get for under $4,000 (though I suspect that you'd need $6,000 to beat it). Let's say that Ned is right, in order to get Pentax into more stores, they have to be more aggressive about enforcing pricing. One thing that they can't do, while their existing customers have a bunch of stock on the shelves is drop MSRP too much. It's possible that they might be able to tell their customers that they are dropping MSRP, or maybe even wholesale cost in the future, so that the customers don't have a lot of inventory on their shelves that they will be forced to sell at a loss. But, if they do, they can't make an announcement until the customers have had a chance to sell off some of their back stock. I'm bummed, there are a few lenses very high on my wish list, that if I had a little more money or even less financial sense, I'd already own. I've been watching the prices on those lenses go up to the point where the 35-135 probably costs what it and the DA35 macro together would have cost me a couple years ago. Oh well, sucks to be me. In the mean time I still have a kit that'll go out and kick butt on kits that cost several times what I've got invested in mine. Hell, look at what Walt is getting with his collection of obsolete bodies and lenses that are old enough to vote. In short, are you going to bitch about the prices of gear that you don't have? Or go out and take pictures with the gear that you do? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
From: Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info And it is certainly a tribute to your photographic skills that you are able to take such fine pictures with such a limited system! (;-) My mother in her later years commented I don't mind change; I just would rather that things stayed the same. I believe that I take after her. All other things aside - cost, value, quality, service, availability, size, etc. etc. - I've been using Pentax gear since 1982. The only way that Pentax equipment has even remotely limited my photography has been the relative paucity of long lenses. And if they made fast long lenses, I probably couldn't afford them. So as long as Pentax keeps making DSLR's I expect to keep buying them. For now the K-20 suits me fine, I have avoided the K-7 and K-5 because of comments about changes in the interface and because of a reduction in the size of the body. If I had had a chance to see and handle these latter cameras I might well have bought those as well . .. stan LOL, I think the interface change on the K-7 is better than the K20D. The K-7 though I find to be truly abysmal in low-light/high ISO situations. Numerous shots have been totally unusable or unrecoverable via post-processing. For normal daylight it's just fine. The K-5 seems to make up for the K-7's deficiencies from what I've read and seen. Landscape photography is not too demanding of a camera performance-wise, but in general, resolution trumps all (well composition trumps resolution), hence my desire to upgrade in a big way. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On Apr 19, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Tom, I have to say that I'm beginning to feel like you. I've faithfully upgraded my way thru Pentax cameras to the K-5. (DS, K-10, K-20, K-7, K-5) Now I'm beginning to wonder where/when I'll be able to buy long fast AF glass for Pentax. I believe Pentax has a 500/4 on the lens timeline that will be available next year. There's also a 300 and a 200, and of course the 60-250. No real shortage of lenses IMO. The only option is to go Canon/Nikon. So I am beginning to lose the faith… What do you want to shoot that you can't shoot with your K-5? Regards, Bob S. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com I'm certainly a value/bang-for the buck kind of guy. I'm terribly late to the K-5 party, but I'm hoping to snag one soon. I believe that it is *still* near the top of the heap (if not at the top) of the best APS-C cameras available today. I'm pretty pleased with the 20x30 prints I've seen from APS-C cameras and frankly, I don't think there are many images that I'm going larger than that with. I think it provides a lot of bang-for-the-buck particularly if one can buy one around $900 (body). I also think it is sort of amazing that I can get *still* probably within $75 for what I paid for my K-x (which I purchases as a low-mileage used kit) - which will help pay for the upgrade. That's value too. Comparing that to the Nikon 800/E (which is 3x the price of the K-5) is sort of like comparing a $25,000 Prius with a $75,000 Mercedes Benz CLS. They aren't really targeting the same demographic. If your discretionary income let's you afford some of the finer things in life, more power to you. A lot of people are going to have a harder time justifying an additional $2000 for a camera body, particularly if it also means they start from Square One on lenses and other accessories. (Frankly, a lot of the 800/E specs seem aimed more at videography than still.) If *Pentax* released a full frame camera with the 800's specs of only 4 FPS and top (real) ISO of 6400, you could hear the PentaxForums screams in Nebraska. I don't think the fact that there are far more expensive cars out there changes the bang-for-the-buck with the Prius and I'd say the same for the K-5. Should Pentax announce a full frame camera (I'm last of the true believers) particularly for in the neighborhood of $2700 that can take advantage of all your K-mount stuff, I'd think that would have to give one looking for another step-up pause. Well, I'm not saying the K-5 doesn't deliver bang for the buck even now. For me it's just a bit late in it's life cycle. I bought late into the K20D and late into the K-7 (had I waited a few more months I'd have had a K-5). So I'm determined not to do that again. I appreciate the accuracy of your arithmetic. $1000 vs. $3000 and $25,000 vs. $75000 are both factors of 3. :-) There's a $2000 difference in the first case and a $5 difference in the second. While being equivalent in magnitude, in real $ there's a huge difference. BTW, I'm not being argumentative, just blabbering. Let's start from the premise that most people wouldn't spend $3000 on a camera. I agree. In fact I can't justify it for myself (so I've compartmentalized that and hidden it away so I don't feel unduly guilty). The 645D is a $10,000 camera so even less people would purchase that. The 645D is a 40MP camera. The D800/E is a 36MP camera. Cost per MP calculation: 645D is $250/MP 800E is $92/MP (K-5 is $62.50/MP if priced at $1000) In those terms, the 800E is delivering a lot of bang for the buck and there's a full compliment of AF lenses available. The D800E has 90% of the resolution of a 645D yet the cost is only 1/3 that of a 645D. The K-5 has about 48.5% the resolution of the D800E and the cost is slightly less than 1/3 that of a D800E. Both the D800E and K-5 offer significant bang for the buck. I agree with your rationale on the K-5, It's why I continued to buy Pentax after Pentax, K-mount after K-mount. On the other hand many people will find themselves scrounging for, or purchasing new FF lenses in K-mount, were Pentax to come out with a FF body. Using only legacy non-AF lenses or APS-C lenses on such a body would negate many of the potential benefits. For me though, I think the time has come where I ask 'do I keep on spending money on Pentax?'. I think the 645D, the Q, and the K-01 are all further signs of a company that's out of touch with reality (I don't deny the same for myself sometimes). The fact that they don't have their DSLR's in mass-market brick and mortar retail outlets is another sign. Have they just awoken to the fact it may be a good idea? Looked at another way, if I'd not bought a K20D (or K-7), had not bought about $2500 of K-mount lenses in the past 4 years, I could easily have paid for a D800E.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On 4/20/2012 01:33, Tom C wrote: In short, are you going to bitch about the prices of gear that you don't have? Or go out and take pictures with the gear that you do? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est) I reserve the right to both bitch AND take pretty pictures with my crappy gear. Tom C. I thought that bitching was kind of allocated for PentaxForums crowds... ;-) Seriously, however, I can totally feel for you, Tom, because as you said in another message for your landscape work pixel count is most valuable. I thought by the way that you were going to get (already had gotten?) Sony NEX-7 which is both small and boasts the 24 MP sensor. I should point out that I recently had a change to shoot with Nikon D700 + their top of the line 24-70/2.8 zoom and some high end flash for about an hour straight. The combo is amazing in terms of ease of use, reliability and predictably good results. The flash is outstanding. The lens is sharp. Camera is responsive and seemingly knows what I wanna do. I'm kind of not very fond of Nikon colors but I certainly can learn to work with or around that. The only real issue I am having personally with this gear is its size and weight. With my rather weak wrists I really felt physical pain and fatigue at the end of that hour fun shoot. The frames came out very good but I kind of crawled back to my K-5 with DA*16-50/2.8 (allegedly comparable gear in Pentax-land) and all of a sudden it did not feel all that big and heavy. In your case, I think that 36 million of pixels that are at least as good as those of K-5 (that's what it seems they're saying out there) is indeed very desirable proposition. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
on 2012-04-19 16:02 Larry Colen wrote Let's say that Ned is right, in order to get Pentax into more stores, they have to be more aggressive about enforcing pricing. One thing that they can't do, while their existing customers have a bunch of stock on the shelves is drop MSRP too much. It's possible that they might be able to tell their customers that they are dropping MSRP, or maybe even wholesale cost in the future, so that the customers don't have a lot of inventory on their shelves that they will be forced to sell at a loss. But, if they do, they can't make an announcement until the customers have had a chance to sell off some of their back stock. Bunnell's column holds out upcoming rebates as some sort of price relief i hate rebates, they make me feel like a clerk in the film Brazil -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
That makes perfect sense. While I'm not really keen on the actual prices being enforced (who likes to pay more?), getting the product in stores for a similar price as online may actually get me to shop in a store if I want to try a lens out. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
No ties to Cnadian stores.:-) The assistanr manager at the Henrys store in Newmarket Ontario i deal with, and just recently bought my K-5 from, said to me they could sell a lot of Pentax gear if they would stock them more. Not sure if its bs cause i was buying a pentax product or not.??? Dave On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Christine, Thanks for posting this. So Pentax,USA is going to force BH to charge full Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price on the internet. And this price umbrella will support our local Brick Mortar shops profits??? 30+ years ago, long before the internet, folks read photo magazine adds and telephoned BH because of their pricing. The manufacturers gave the big retailers volume discounts off retail price. The local guys could never get that because they didn't have the volume. Now some 30 years later we are going to unwind this? Good Luck! There are no local Brick Mortar shops to sell thru... except maybe that one profit center in Regina, Saskatchewan. :-) Regards, Bob S. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
I believe its illegal for a company to force no discounting policies on retailers. - J.C.O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bob Sullivan Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:31 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... Christine, Thanks for posting this. So Pentax,USA is going to force BH to charge full Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price on the internet. And this price umbrella will support our local Brick Mortar shops profits??? 30+ years ago, long before the internet, folks read photo magazine adds and telephoned BH because of their pricing. The manufacturers gave the big retailers volume discounts off retail price. The local guys could never get that because they didn't have the volume. Now some 30 years later we are going to unwind this? Good Luck! There are no local Brick Mortar shops to sell thru... except maybe that one profit center in Regina, Saskatchewan. :-) Regards, Bob S. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the- u -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:33 AM, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: I believe its illegal for a company to force no discounting policies on retailers. The Supreme Court ruled otherwise (at least under some circumstances) in 2007: http://www.fvldlaw.com/?t=40an=923format=xml -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
If it is part of the contract that both parties agree to, why would it be illegal? The retailer is not being forced to sell Pentax products. If they don't like the terms of the deal, then they won't sell Pentax. It certainly hasn't stopped Apple from selling their product at MSRP at other retailers (BM and web). On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:33 AM, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: I believe its illegal for a company to force no discounting policies on retailers. - J.C.O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bob Sullivan Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:31 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... Christine, Thanks for posting this. So Pentax,USA is going to force BH to charge full Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price on the internet. And this price umbrella will support our local Brick Mortar shops profits??? 30+ years ago, long before the internet, folks read photo magazine adds and telephoned BH because of their pricing. The manufacturers gave the big retailers volume discounts off retail price. The local guys could never get that because they didn't have the volume. Now some 30 years later we are going to unwind this? Good Luck! There are no local Brick Mortar shops to sell thru... except maybe that one profit center in Regina, Saskatchewan. :-) Regards, Bob S. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the- u -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
This tracks with the enforced pricing compliance I had recently read was coming. Jack - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 6:40 AM Subject: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
because it stifles free trade... - J.C.O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of David Parsons Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:38 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... If it is part of the contract that both parties agree to, why would it be illegal? The retailer is not being forced to sell Pentax products. If they don't like the terms of the deal, then they won't sell Pentax. It certainly hasn't stopped Apple from selling their product at MSRP at other retailers (BM and web). On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:33 AM, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: I believe its illegal for a company to force no discounting policies on retailers. - J.C.O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bob Sullivan Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:31 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... Christine, Thanks for posting this. So Pentax,USA is going to force BH to charge full Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price on the internet. And this price umbrella will support our local Brick Mortar shops profits??? 30+ years ago, long before the internet, folks read photo magazine adds and telephoned BH because of their pricing. The manufacturers gave the big retailers volume discounts off retail price. The local guys could never get that because they didn't have the volume. Now some 30 years later we are going to unwind this? Good Luck! There are no local Brick Mortar shops to sell thru... except maybe that one profit center in Regina, Saskatchewan. :-) Regards, Bob S. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the- u -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
this is new to me and I dont agree with it. For a long time it wasnt allowed. - J.C.O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Hunt Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:37 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:33 AM, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: I believe its illegal for a company to force no discounting policies on retailers. The Supreme Court ruled otherwise (at least under some circumstances) in 2007: http://www.fvldlaw.com/?t=40an=923format=xml -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
That makes perfect sense. While I'm not really keen on the actual prices being enforced (who likes to pay more?), getting the product in stores for a similar price as online may actually get me to shop in a store if I want to try a lens out. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u I say it makes little sense to the vast majority of consumers. It only makes sense to a company that is a tad arrogant and misguided. Some companies produce products that are in such high demand that they can successfully dictate the selling price, for instance Apple and iPads, Tesla, and Sony in the past. Most companies are not in that position. What position do you (collective you) believe Ricoh Pentax is in? I've never paid MSRP. MSRP has always been artificially high so that anything below that looks like a discount. In fact if Pentax had demanded MSRP for their products, my association with Pentax would have been over at the time I was choosing between a PZ-1p and a Nikon 8008s. I specifically DON'T buy expensive items in the local camera store BECAUSE they attempt to sell it at MSRP or close to it. Yeah, go ahead and knock $50 or a $100 off MSRP. What are they taking me for, a fool? When I can purchase the same item for $100's less from numerous online retailers? Last I checked, Sears Roebuck had the K-5 at MSRP through their online store. Any bets on how many K-5's they sell compared to other retailers? Pentax once again has it backwards. They can only successfully dictate selling price if their product is in such high demand that customers will swallow hard and pull out their credit cards. I simply don't see that happening. I predict this strategy will fail miserably and will lead to a result opposite of what Pentax expects, i.e., fewer sales, lesser volume. Hmm... what will that mean for Pentax? Question, do you (collective you) think that Nikon and Canon have deep enough pockets to simultaneously discount their products? This sounds like Pentax committing hari kari to me. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
The one small problem I see with this policy is that it can only extend to new items. Thus, I think we'll see a plethora of open box demo models being sold as used at whatever the market will bear. I wonder if this is already taking place. The DA 35mm f2.8 Macro Limited (that will finally be in my grubby little hands *tomorrow*) was an E+ used lens at Adorama for a little over $200 less than the new price. Sure, there is no warranty, but I've never had a lens problem that occurred inside of a warranty period anyhow. If you have, then maybe the extra is worth it. But I'm willing to gamble. In any event, I could spend $200 on a repair and still be even with the warranty guy, except that my advantage doesn't expire when the warranty does. The Big Boys obviously are going to have an advantage in quantity of used open box demos they can offer over the small shop. Keep in mind that in the past, the really low prices you saw advertised were for Grey Market lenses that didn't come with USA warranties anyway. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
on 2012-04-18 7:40 Christine Nielsen wrote http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u full of unsupported claims about benefits quaint and romantic as the idea is (or isn't, when it's Walmart), a physical retail store is just a lousy proposition if it has to cost a few hundred dollars to have a chance to handle a product for a few minutes before buying it; when will someone realize this and invent something better? for that kind of margin they could send me a loaner lens for a week for free, and swap it for a brand new one if i liked it so Pentax forces consumers to pay more (another way to say it since Bunnell claims prices haven't increased) — that is not going to grow the tiny number of really good camera stores; i think this is more about getting into some giant chain in order to generate sales to less knowledgeable buyers; the clerks at whatever chain this turns out to be will be underpaid non-experts who will spout crap when questioned any true benefit to enthusiasts and pros will be elusive; this is about marketing, not serving the customer; Bunnell is just doing spin control -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u Correct subject line this time (crap)... And this statement: To clarify, we have not raised the prices on any lenses. is a bit disingenuous. If the price the end consumer must pay for a given product is higher than before, than explain to the consumer, how the price has not been raised. I understand that he's talking about price enforcement vs. price raising, but the net effect is price raising. Again... does he expect to sell more product at a higher price than at a lower price? Any additional margin will go to the dealers not Pentax.” So this means consumers will pay more, dealers will sell less, and Pentax will not see any benefit even when their products sell for a higher retail price. Sounds like a lose-tie-lose proposition to me. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On Apr 18, 2012, at 10:57, Darren Addy wrote: Keep in mind that in the past, the really low prices you saw advertised were for Grey Market lenses that didn't come with USA warranties anyway. I got my 16-50 from BuyDig.com back in 2008 and it came with a U.S. warranty. AND it was only $649.00. Current list is, what, about 2 1/2 times that? It's not going to sell at that price. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
I suppose there is the hope that time will soften the sting of higher prices (especially to those largely upset with the fates for having waited too long before buying) when a leveling has been in place for awhile. Jack - Original Message - From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:26 AM Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u Correct subject line this time (crap)... And this statement: To clarify, we have not raised the prices on any lenses. is a bit disingenuous. If the price the end consumer must pay for a given product is higher than before, than explain to the consumer, how the price has not been raised. I understand that he's talking about price enforcement vs. price raising, but the net effect is price raising. Again... does he expect to sell more product at a higher price than at a lower price? Any additional margin will go to the dealers not Pentax.” So this means consumers will pay more, dealers will sell less, and Pentax will not see any benefit even when their products sell for a higher retail price. Sounds like a lose-tie-lose proposition to me. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Christine Nielsen wrote on Wed, 18 Apr 2012 06:40:14 -0700 http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u Seems like Pentax is not alone in doing this. Nikon has already made a similar move: http://nikonrumors.com/2011/10/14/the-new-nikon-us-pricing-policy-explained.aspx/ Regards, Jim -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com wrote: I got my 16-50 from BuyDig.com back in 2008 and it came with a U.S. warranty. AND it was only $649.00. Current list is, what, about 2 1/2 times that? It's not going to sell at that price. Not to me. Dave -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
James King jamesk8...@mac.com wrote: Christine Nielsen wrote on Wed, 18 Apr 2012 06:40:14 -0700 http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u Seems like Pentax is not alone in doing this. Nikon has already made a similar move: http://nikonrumors.com/2011/10/14/the-new-nikon-us-pricing-policy-explained.aspx/ Interesting to read that thread. I expect all the photo manufacturers will have similar policies by the end of theis year (sounds like Nikon Canon already do and Pentax is a little late to the game). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On 2012-04-18 12:48, Jack Davis wrote: I suppose there is the hope that time will soften the sting of higher prices (especially to those largely upset with the fates for having waited too long before buying) when a leveling has been in place for awhile. They can hope that if they want, but that's not how it's going to play out in my house. Their prices were already just within the limits of what I was willing to pay. Pushing them up just means there's literally /no/ way I'll be buying them new. And all to benefit some brick-and-mortar stores that aren't within hundreds of miles of my home, according to Ned. -- Doug Lefty Franklin NutDriver Racing http://NutDriver.org Facebook NutDriver Racing Sponsored by Murphy -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bipin Gupta In India it is mandatory by law that every item or product for sale carry an MRP (maximum retail price) on the carton as well as the item inside. However the TV channels keep educating people on their rights saying, you do not have to pay MRP - exercise your right. For example a 500 ml bottle of Listerine has an MRP of INR 150. But the supermarkets will be selling it for INR 135. Even my local Medical shop will give a discount of 5 to 10% on the MRP. Ricoh - Pentax is only harming themselves by forcing On-line as well as BM Stores to sell at MSRP. In fact this is Illegal under the Restrictive Trade Practices Act in India. Sad to say there are NO Stores or Dealers for Pentax DSLRs in any City, repeat any city or Metro in India. Pentax do not have even an Office or a Service Center in India. In fact the Canikons rule the roost here with DSLR sales far exceeding that of their PS cameras. Regards. Bipin - from a far away enchanting land. well, it's such a tiny market. Only about - what - 1.18 billion people? Hardly worth the effort really. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
From: steve harley p...@paper-ape.com http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u full of unsupported claims about benefits quaint and romantic as the idea is (or isn't, when it's Walmart), a physical retail store is just a lousy proposition if it has to cost a few hundred dollars to have a chance to handle a product for a few minutes before buying it; when will someone realize this and invent something better? for that kind of margin they could send me a loaner lens for a week for free, and swap it for a brand new one if i liked it so Pentax forces consumers to pay more (another way to say it since Bunnell claims prices haven't increased) ? that is not going to grow the tiny number of really good camera stores; i think this is more about getting into some giant chain in order to generate sales to less knowledgeable buyers; the clerks at whatever chain this turns out to be will be underpaid non-experts who will spout crap when questioned any true benefit to enthusiasts and pros will be elusive; this is about marketing, not serving the customer; Bunnell is just doing spin control I agree. I don't find there to be a benefit, tangible or intangible, to purchasing in a local camera store. Certainly not worth a 20% or higher price differential. Of course that differential could be going away according to the strategy. Would I like to see the camera stores stick around? Yes. Do I believe my supporting them by paying my hard earned cash is going to make the difference? No, it's such a small percentage of the market, and like them my income and cash flow are important. We had a local guitar store in business for decades, Old Boise Guitar. I did purchase quite a bit of my son's instruments and gear there, hoping that they could keep going. The thing is, there they really did provide a service. Being able to touch and play the instrument, as well as being very knowledgeable. They went out of business two years ago. Now there's only Guitar Center and the junky music stores. The difference also is that a musical instrument is potentially a life time purchase. A DSLR is really 2 - 3 years at best. Since most camera buyers do not go to the dedicated camera stores to make purchases, getting them into big box's, warehouse clubs, Target's, Walmart's would seem a logical course of action. I don't see how the relationship with the smaller camera stores mentioned in the blog will make much of a difference. In fact I bet a significant portion of their sales, if not a majority, is actually done online vs. walk-in. I personally think Pentax is fighting a losing battle and the best they can really hope for is to maintain the status quo. The only thing they can do that makes sense is to sell more cameras and lenses. To do that, the product should be where the consumer is most likely going to be, in the major chains right next to the Nikon's and Canon's. If they don't do that, everything else mentioned in the blog is pointless. At the same time, raising prices is not likely to generate more sales. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
James King jamesk8...@mac.com wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u Seems like Pentax is not alone in doing this. Nikon has already made a similar move: http://nikonrumors.com/2011/10/14/the-new-nikon-us-pricing-policy-explained.aspx/ Mark Roberts wrote: Interesting to read that thread. I expect all the photo manufacturers will have similar policies by the end of theis year (sounds like Nikon Canon already do and Pentax is a little late to the game). So basically all the camera companies will be jamming their increased prices down our throats. How many people will be willing to pay the premium for a Pentax vs. pay the premium for a Nikon or Canon? I wonder if this is not an industry wide effort to stave off the ongoing price drop as technology becomes less expensive to manufacture, as well as, to a degree, slow the downward price spiral. Tom C. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
The most disingenuous statement Mr. Bunnell makes is that Pentax did not raise prices (ostensibly because, by knocking off the discounts any additional profits go to the camera store and not Pentax). That's crazy talk. The Pentax/Ricoh policy *did* raise prices for The Consumer (ultimately the only one we care about). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
The price differential between Nikon/Canon and Pentax should evolve to previous levels in a reasonably short [period of time. Jack :-) - Original Message - From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com To: pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... James King jamesk8...@mac.com wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the-u Seems like Pentax is not alone in doing this. Nikon has already made a similar move: http://nikonrumors.com/2011/10/14/the-new-nikon-us-pricing-policy-explained.aspx/ Mark Roberts wrote: Interesting to read that thread. I expect all the photo manufacturers will have similar policies by the end of theis year (sounds like Nikon Canon already do and Pentax is a little late to the game). So basically all the camera companies will be jamming their increased prices down our throats. How many people will be willing to pay the premium for a Pentax vs. pay the premium for a Nikon or Canon? I wonder if this is not an industry wide effort to stave off the ongoing price drop as technology becomes less expensive to manufacture, as well as, to a degree, slow the downward price spiral. Tom C. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Im glad I already purchased all the PENTAX lenses I will ever need on the used market ( read as cheap compared to new prices on new lenses ). They are mostly FF primes that Pentax doesnt even make new anymore anyway. - J.C.O'Connell hifis...@gate.net - -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Jack Davis Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:23 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... The price differential between Nikon/Canon and Pentax should evolve to previous levels in a reasonably short [period of time. Jack :-) - Original Message - From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com To: pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing... James King jamesk8...@mac.com wrote: http://nedbunnell.posterous.com/lens-prices-and-our-channel-strategy-in-the- u Seems like Pentax is not alone in doing this. Nikon has already made a similar move: http://nikonrumors.com/2011/10/14/the-new-nikon-us-pricing-policy-explaine d.aspx/ Mark Roberts wrote: Interesting to read that thread. I expect all the photo manufacturers will have similar policies by the end of theis year (sounds like Nikon Canon already do and Pentax is a little late to the game). So basically all the camera companies will be jamming their increased prices down our throats. How many people will be willing to pay the premium for a Pentax vs. pay the premium for a Nikon or Canon? I wonder if this is not an industry wide effort to stave off the ongoing price drop as technology becomes less expensive to manufacture, as well as, to a degree, slow the downward price spiral. Tom C. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com The most disingenuous statement Mr. Bunnell makes is that Pentax did not raise prices (ostensibly because, by knocking off the discounts any additional profits go to the camera store and not Pentax). That's crazy talk. The Pentax/Ricoh policy *did* raise prices for The Consumer (ultimately the only one we care about). It's either pure spin as someone else wrote and/or it demonstrates being out of touch with the consumer and/or it's just plain callousness. Makes one wonder what % of his income Mr. Bunnell pays for his Pentax gear. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On Apr 18, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Tom C wrote: I've never paid MSRP. MSRP has always been artificially high so that anything below that looks like a discount. In fact if Pentax had demanded MSRP for their products, my association with Pentax would have been over at the time I was choosing between a PZ-1p and a Nikon 8008s. I specifically DON'T buy expensive items in the local camera store BECAUSE they attempt to sell it at MSRP or close to it. Yeah, go ahead and knock $50 or a $100 off MSRP. What are they taking me for, a fool? Just to point out that there is another side to the story, I have paid MSRP (minus a small good customer discount) for all of the camera bodies I bought from the PZ-1p (3) through the MZ-S, (2) and *ist-D (2). After that the local guy could no longer get goods from Pentax. I paid MSRP because I wanted a place to go and touch and feel the merchandise, I wanted a place to take care of my photo processing (and then later my scanning), I wanted Mitch to stay in business, and it was worth a few hundred bucks extra on my purchases to help keep him in business. I also don't shop Wal-Mart. I think the drive to the cheapest possible price on everything is a reflection of the unmitigated greed that consumes such a large portion of the population. We want to have all of the stuff that we can get, and rather than prioritizing and choosing what luxuries we will have that we can afford at a reasonable price, we go for cheap low-quality stuff just to have it. Pentax has been extraordinary in providing high quality goods at low prices; at some point the only rational options for them are to lower quality or raise prices; I am comfortable with the latter. It probably means I will only buy one K-3 rather than my preferred two, but I can deal with that. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
So Tom, are you saying that the only reason you and others use Pentax gear is to get a lower price? I, and at least a few others, use Pentax because we prefer their product to Nikon, Canon, and other brands. stan On Apr 18, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Tom C wrote: So basically all the camera companies will be jamming their increased prices down our throats. How many people will be willing to pay the premium for a Pentax vs. pay the premium for a Nikon or Canon? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On Apr 18, 2012, at 3:52 PM, Darren Addy wrote: The Pentax/Ricoh policy *did* raise prices for The Consumer (ultimately the only one we care about). I also care about the store that sells me the goods and the company that makes the product. If you focus only on the lowest price, then soon the company will be only selling lower quality goods or they will be out of business which won't be good for your orphaned low price camera and lenses. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
Stan, You are on a slippery slope here. Pentax users are the people who drive old cars and search for good values. We've verified that in prior discussions. We don't need the cashe that comes with Nikon or Canon or Leica. Low prices and good value are keys for us. Regards, Bob S. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info wrote: So Tom, are you saying that the only reason you and others use Pentax gear is to get a lower price? I, and at least a few others, use Pentax because we prefer their product to Nikon, Canon, and other brands. stan On Apr 18, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Tom C wrote: So basically all the camera companies will be jamming their increased prices down our throats. How many people will be willing to pay the premium for a Pentax vs. pay the premium for a Nikon or Canon? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
From: Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info On Apr 18, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Tom C wrote: I've never paid MSRP. MSRP has always been artificially high so that anything below that looks like a discount. In fact if Pentax had demanded MSRP for their products, my association with Pentax would have been over at the time I was choosing between a PZ-1p and a Nikon 8008s. I specifically DON'T buy expensive items in the local camera store BECAUSE they attempt to sell it at MSRP or close to it. Yeah, go ahead and knock $50 or a $100 off MSRP. What are they taking me for, a fool? Just to point out that there is another side to the story, I have paid MSRP (minus a small good customer discount) for all of the camera bodies I bought from the PZ-1p (3) through the MZ-S, (2) and *ist-D (2). After that the local guy could no longer get goods from Pentax. I paid MSRP because I wanted a place to go and touch and feel the merchandise, I wanted a place to take care of my photo processing (and then later my scanning), I wanted Mitch to stay in business, and it was worth a few hundred bucks extra on my purchases to help keep him in business. I also don't shop Wal-Mart. I think the drive to the cheapest possible price on everything is a reflection of the unmitigated greed that consumes such a large portion of the population. We want to have all of the stuff that we can get, and rather than prioritizing and choosing what luxuries we will have that we can afford at a reasonable price, we go for cheap low-quality stuff just to have it. Pentax has been extraordinary in providing high quality goods at low prices; at some point the only rational options for them are to lower quality or raise prices; I am comfortable with the latter. It probably means I will only buy one K-3 rather than my preferred two, but I can deal with that. stan I don't disagree with much of what you say Stan. Is that local guy still around? I hope so, not that it matters for the sake of this discussion. I think back in the pre-WWW/digital boom days many of us would have paid closer to MSRP. For one thing, items were not disposable as they are now. When a person bought a film camera, they could reasonably expect to get 10+ years of use out of it, if not more. Now I view most, if not all, digital items I buy as more or less disposable. Likely I'll have stopped using them in 2 - 3 years because technology has advanced. The resale value is a small fraction of the original price, so even digital cameras that old are for enthusiasts or pro's, essentially paperweights. That's an incentive to pay as low a price as possible... do I pay the premier grocery store price for razor blades or the Walmart/Costco price? I agree somewhat with the greed statement, but I also think the blame lies with the corporations and manufacturers. I'm generalizing here - they have shown employees and customers that they are primarily in it for themselves. Cut costs and maximize profits. There's job outsourcing and H1B-visas, etc. That's a downward pressure on both jobs and pay. So what is the average consumer to do? Basically they have only one choice, maximize the value of every dollar they earn and spend. I'm not saying it's desirable, just that it seems to be a natural consequence of our modern society. Let's not equate it to greed. Instead consider this scenario. I have the funds to 1) purchase a new camera body at close to MSRP and put food on my table for a month, or 2) purchase the same camera body at a substantial savings, with that savings purchase an additional lens for that body, and put food on my table for a month. Which should I choose? Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
I came for the value (the K-x) and I'm staying because I'm a bit of a romantic. -- Walt On 4/18/2012 8:17 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Stan, You are on a slippery slope here. Pentax users are the people who drive old cars and search for good values. We've verified that in prior discussions. We don't need the cashe that comes with Nikon or Canon or Leica. Low prices and good value are keys for us. Regards, Bob S. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info wrote: So Tom, are you saying that the only reason you and others use Pentax gear is to get a lower price? I, and at least a few others, use Pentax because we prefer their product to Nikon, Canon, and other brands. stan On Apr 18, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Tom C wrote: So basically all the camera companies will be jamming their increased prices down our throats. How many people will be willing to pay the premium for a Pentax vs. pay the premium for a Nikon or Canon? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
So Tom, are you saying that the only reason you and others use Pentax gear is to get a lower price? I, and at least a few others, use Pentax because we prefer their product to Nikon, Canon, and other brands. stan On Apr 18, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Tom C wrote: So basically all the camera companies will be jamming their increased prices down our throats. How many people will be willing to pay the premium for a Pentax vs. pay the premium for a Nikon or Canon? I can't speak for others Stan, but for myself that would essentially be a yes. When I was making less than 1/4 of my current pay, I bought a used Pentax MX and 4 used lenses for a total of $150. Then seven years later when I wanted to upgrade to an AF body, it came down to a PZ-1p or a Nikon 8008S. The Pentax was spec'd almost identically, cost a bit less and had an on-body flash. The Nikon would have required another $350 or so for a flash unit, plus I already had all the legacy lenses (which I rarely used after having an AF body). I also bought Linda a ZX-10 and Tamron K-mount AF zoom. Then in 2004, the Pentax *istD came along. What was the pattern I would follow? I've bought 5 Pentax lenses since then including a $1000 Sigma 50-500. At this point, with the mind-blowing D800/E, the question becomes do I spend another disposable $.XX on Pentax or do I spend a disposable $.XX on Nikon, funding a portion of the purchase with the sale of my Pentax gear (lenses)? Who is producing the products I would rather 'dispose' additional money on now? Pentax with the 645D, the Q, the K-01, or another manufacturer? I'm not dissing Pentax, disrespecting Pentax users, or even the image quality one can obtain with Pentax gear. If that were the case I'd have left Pentax long ago. Pentax has been a bang-for-the-buck brand since the 90's if not before. When one begins to feel less bang... Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
I'm certainly a value/bang-for the buck kind of guy. I'm terribly late to the K-5 party, but I'm hoping to snag one soon. I believe that it is *still* near the top of the heap (if not at the top) of the best APS-C cameras available today. I'm pretty pleased with the 20x30 prints I've seen from APS-C cameras and frankly, I don't think there are many images that I'm going larger than that with. I think it provides a lot of bang-for-the-buck particularly if one can buy one around $900 (body). I also think it is sort of amazing that I can get *still* probably within $75 for what I paid for my K-x (which I purchases as a low-mileage used kit) - which will help pay for the upgrade. That's value too. Comparing that to the Nikon 800/E (which is 3x the price of the K-5) is sort of like comparing a $25,000 Prius with a $75,000 Mercedes Benz CLS. They aren't really targeting the same demographic. If your discretionary income let's you afford some of the finer things in life, more power to you. A lot of people are going to have a harder time justifying an additional $2000 for a camera body, particularly if it also means they start from Square One on lenses and other accessories. (Frankly, a lot of the 800/E specs seem aimed more at videography than still.) If *Pentax* released a full frame camera with the 800's specs of only 4 FPS and top (real) ISO of 6400, you could hear the PentaxForums screams in Nebraska. I don't think the fact that there are far more expensive cars out there changes the bang-for-the-buck with the Prius and I'd say the same for the K-5. Should Pentax announce a full frame camera (I'm last of the true believers) particularly for in the neighborhood of $2700 that can take advantage of all your K-mount stuff, I'd think that would have to give one looking for another step-up pause. My grandmother told me a long time ago that the grass is always greener on the *other* side of the fence. That's human nature. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On 2012-04-18 15:51, Tom C wrote: I wonder if this is not an industry wide effort to stave off the ongoing price drop as technology becomes less expensive to manufacture, as well as, to a degree, slow the downward price spiral. My seat-of-the-pants thought is that it's a symptom of the same malady afflicting the music business ... the world has changed but the business model hasn't, or not enough. For hard goods manufacturers like Pentax, it's probably more accurate to say that the market has changed but their marketing and distribution models haven't. And they have less room to adjust, due to the very hardness of their product. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm not convinced that (effectively) raising prices is a useful part of it. -- Doug Lefty Franklin NutDriver Racing http://NutDriver.org Facebook NutDriver Racing Sponsored by Murphy -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Mr. Bunnell on lens pricing...
On Apr 19, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Doug Franklin wrote: My seat-of-the-pants thought is that it's a symptom of the same malady afflicting the music business ... the world has changed but the business model hasn't, or not enough. For hard goods manufacturers like Pentax, it's probably more accurate to say that the market has changed but their marketing and distribution models haven't. This was my initial thought as well. It seems that to move forward they may have to piss off some important members of their current distribution chain. I have similar thoughts about the bicycle industry in this country but that's best left to another forum :) Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
