[Phono-L] paillards echophone
What does the paillards echophone sell for? Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison Gem 2 4 conversion question
According to Edison Catalog up until the Feb 1, 1902 the B was used on all phonographs except for the Gem so I assume in 1902 the Gem had the carriage the B and C will fit. The C joined in the small top serial numbers around 25,000, by 43,000 the B lost is arm and for the most part was used only in the Gem. Up to 29,000 the B had it arm and was used in all Edison machines except for the Gem. The B replaced the automatic, it got the notch around 18,000, the name by 43,000, around 110,000 when the new top with REPRODUCER on it came out Edison drilled and tapped the B weight for the extra lead weight, and the 2.2 lead alloy weight came out around 150,000 which finally gave the B the same if not more volume than the 1.2 to 1.3 ounce C weight. From 43,000 to 110,000 B tops will be found with no arm and the word REPRODUCER is not on them. There are 2 styles of top in this range. The early B from 1 to around 6500 has a different top with thin plating that shows machine marks. Around 190,000 the automatic weight went from .8 to 1.2 ounce, around 202,000 the automatic got a hinge block and limit loop. In 1901 Mobley was granted a patent for the dome top and hanging weight on the Edison automatic. Edison may have gotten these ideas from Mobley as in 1901 Edison took the weight from the last automatic and placed it on the new dome top. At the same time I developed the new dome top recorder with its fragile aluminum arms holding the aluminum cutter in place. He enlarged the arms into wings and the wings into the common stylus holder shape. Then it went to copper then to nickel plated copper. Finally the 2 minute recorder got the all new holder that was used on the 4 minute recorder. From: pjfra...@mac.com Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 19:09:11 -0700 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Gem 2 4 conversion question i had an A, post 1902 by your reckoning below, with a 2/4 kit. it had the little flip-back gear train as well as the moveable gear. Kind of an exercise in futility because all the extra friction made the poor, weak, motor only sometimes able to get through a 4 minute record. -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com On Sep 3, 2011, at 6:47 PM, Steven Medved wrote: Good point, until the Gem A got the B reproducer in 1902 the carriage would have to be changed to accomodate the H reproducer. The only box I have seen for 2/4 Gem kit says B-C on it. I would be interested if the A had a kit. From: glast...@comcast.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 20:29:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Gem 2 4 conversion question These are for Models B and C. Red Gems were combination from the beginning and I don't think As could be converted. - Original Message - From: mdsor...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Gem 2 4 conversion question there is no button or switch on this one as far as I remember, you just move the gear to either engage or disengage giving you 2 or 4 minute. Mike Sorter -Original Message- From: clockworkh...@aol.com To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:31 am Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Gem 2 4 conversion question Greetings Everyone: I have had a somewhat negative interaction with eBay seller eschalpin who is selling a Gem 2 - 4 minute conversion gearing. He claims the unit is complete. I asked how you change the gearing speeds and he told me not to send him anymore emails. I believe the 'complete' unit is missing the knob and dual size intermediate gear that does the shifting. Since eschalpin of the District of Columbia won't answer the question I thought I would query this learned group. How does one get two gear speeds on eBay item 250883944435 Thanks, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org -- Peter pjfra...@me.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Who was the man selling the Exhibition flanges he made at the Orlando show
Hello, Who was the man selling the Exhibition flanges he made at the Orlando show? Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] My phonograph room
The sign was the only way John's friends could get money out of him. Steve What a great story and what a great bunch of friends to have. My friends only want to borrow money... Dave --- On Sun, 9/4/11, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote: From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net Subject: Re: [Phono-L] My phonograph room To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sunday, September 4, 2011, 8:37 AM Thanks Dave. Scott Corbett had that sign made for me and there is a story behind the sign. I was selling at the CAPS show several years ago, and this guy (Gary Dial) wandered by my table. He was perusing my stuff, and he picked up my card. He did a double take, and said Your name is Robles? I said yes..he said Oh I have something at my table you need to see! He hurried me over to his table and there was the sign. I gasped when I saw it, especially because I knew of no Robles House of Music in Ventura back in the day. I said I have to have that, how much is it? He said he'd left me have it for $75. I paid him and made the rounds with it showing all my friends, who showed proper astonishment. A little later I got back to my table and had it displayed behind me. Pretty soon I noticed several of my friends gathered around the table grinning..and it sank in! I had been pranked!! Gary came up and gave me my money back, saying he had to charge me what he thought would be a realistic amount, that he couldn't charge me only $20 or so because he thought that would make me suspicious. It was a great joke and I treasure that sign and the great friendships with all the people that were in on it. John From: David Dazer dda...@sbcglobal.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2011 4:14 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] My phonograph room Very nice, John. I especially like the replica old time sign. What a great little item. Dave --- On Sun, 9/4/11, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote: From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net Subject: [Phono-L] My phonograph room To: phonolist phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sunday, September 4, 2011, 3:21 AM Here is a link to pics of my phonograph room and machines. I don't have much room so I don't have many machines, but I enjoy what I have. Double click on the pics to enlarge them and read the comments. If you have a photobucket account I'd like to see some of your collections! http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/john9ten/My%20Phono%20Room/ John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison Gem 2 4 conversion question
Here is what one should look like, small file. Note the large gear is missing with the shifter as Al has said. To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: clockworkh...@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 17:17:48 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Gem 2 4 conversion question Greetings Everyone: I have had a somewhat negative interaction with eBay seller eschalpin who is selling a Gem 2 - 4 minute conversion gearing. He claims the unit is complete. I asked how you change the gearing speeds and he told me not to send him anymore emails. I believe the 'complete' unit is missing the knob and dual size intermediate gear that does the shifting. Since eschalpin of the District of Columbia won't answer the question I thought I would query this learned group. How does one get two gear speeds on eBay item 250883944435 Thanks, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Gem 2 4 kit.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8937 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20110902/32a72b7f/attachment.jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
Hello Al, Where do you get your leather for the belts? Here is Barge Cement for those who like me had never heard of it: http://www.amazon.com/BARGE-DA081-Barge-Cement/dp/B002JL2ZHE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1314492925sr=8-1 Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: clockworkh...@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:12:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Neoprene, which is the generic brand name for chloroprene, has a life of 15 years according to NASA specs. But, those specs are for non-flexing O rings under compression and not exposed to air. I suspect a neoprene belt would do a great job and not have the problem a leather belt with a bad bulging joint to cause record 'wow' would have. That being said, I have leather belts of 100+ years still going strong with original stitching. For a machine just to play a record well the neoprene is likely a good choice. For originality, a leather belt with stitching is my choice. You can skive the ends of the leather belt. Join them with Barge Cement. Then use one of those toy sewing machines they sell As Seen On TV, with a home made guide fence, to put on the twin parallel stitches. A light touch of Barge Cement at the thread ends will keep them from unraveling while playing. The belt can be dressed with leather protectant and will last indefinitely. That's my 2 cents worth... Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Weight for automatic or early blank weight B reproducer
Hello all, I currently have an automatic with the thin .8 ounce weight that has one of the shoulders that hold the stylus bar in place broke off. Does anyone have an automatic weight or early unmarked B weight for sale? Is there anyone that could machine a new one? Thanks for your kind consideration. Steve Medved ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Mystery box (Edison)
Edison did not make one but he did include them briefly in the early days and later on with the Edisonic DD phonograp they are found with the Edison lateral reproducer. I believe Union made the early ones. I will send photos when I get home. From: b...@taney.com Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:58:06 -0500 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Mystery box (Edison) I didn't know that edison ever made a lateral option with his DD phono's except the last gasp Edisonics. Does anyone have one of these or a picture of one? On Aug 23, 2011, at 8:47 AM, Philip Carli wrote: I know on the earlier part of this forum someone mentioned the possibility of the box holding the DD reproducer for shipping, and this was disproven -- but could the box have been, in part, to hold the Edison _lateral_ reproducer option that was briefly marketed into 1914? PC From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] on behalf of Andrew Baron [a...@popyrus.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:49 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Mystery box (Edison) I'm sure someone on this forum must know the answer, but wasn't sure some of you might have seen it based on the previous subject line. My original inquiry is copied below. The 3/4 holes are also bored at a slant. Wonder if they're for tubes of grease or? - Original Message - From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 12:52:51 PM Subject: [Phono-L] A-200, A-250 early DD question Can someone educate me on what the small wood box was for, that's found in the horn compartment in some early Edison Disc Phonographs? The size is 7 long by 3.5 wide, by 3 tall, and it has a wedge shaped block inside that has two 3/4 holes side by side that are 3 to 3.5 inches deep. The wedge block, which is glued in, occupies about half of the interior volume of the box. I assume this contained a kit of lubricants, possibly an oil can, etc., but it would be great to know in more detail what its original purpose was, and greater still to see a photo of how it was equipped when new. Does anyone know when they stopped doing this? Thanks in advance for any insights. Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org This email message and any attachments may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from using the information in any way, including but not limited to disclosure of, copying, forwarding or acting in reliance on the contents. If you have received this email by error, please immediately notify me by return email and delete it from your email system. Thank you. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
Excellent article, thanks so much. Steve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:27:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hi Steve and all, Here is a great source for information. This is where we found information on our little 5. 1889-1892 is indeed the dawn of disc records. -Scott Denise Corbett Below is from the website: http://www.archeophone.org/Berliner5inch/ The earliest disc records ever released : The five inch Berliner Gramophone records online catalogue It is commonly said that the first Berliner Gramophone record to be offered on the market was pressed in the USA in October 1894. It was a seven inch record. But in fact Emile Berliner (1851-1929), inventor of the gramophone record, had made and sold records long before that date. It is a German toy maker (Kämmer Reinhardt in Waltershausen, Thuringen) who made and marketed the very first Berliner Gramophone which was a toy with a cardboard horn, hand operated with a crank, but with no spring or motor. This device put on the market from 1889 to 1892, rotated five inch records (12,5 cm) at 100-150 revolutions per minute. These records are not made of shellac like records made later, but of gutta-percha : an inelastic compressed and vulcanized natural latex or rubber isolated from the sap of several species of tropical tree, but mainly from Palaquium gutta. They are pressed from metallic matrixes. Both records and machines bear the mention E. Berliner Grammophon D.R.P. [Deutsches Reichspatent] 45048. The label on the reverse side of each record contains the title or the recorded text and the mention of two of Berliner's US patents : Nov 1887, May 1888. They are indeed the oldest records in the world. The voice heard of most of these records, singing or talking with no instrumental accompaniment, is Emile Berliner's own voice. This is commonly admitted and it is indeed a voice - always the same on different records - with an audible German accent. The above list represents the earliest disc record catalogue in the world. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 12:18 PM To: Phono-l Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record Thanks, I guess the 5 was made for a toy phonographs. Do you know how old yours is? I really appreciated the information. Steve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record That appears to be a 5 Berliner. We recently were able to purchase one, and it looks identical (except for the title). They are VERY thin compared to the 7 Berliners and it's a wonder any survived at all. Not surprising that it is being sold in Germany where they were made. This title is probably the most sought after being Berliner's own voice. It is said that he recorded others as well. Our records is Barnyard sounds, which is rather poor imitations of clucking and mooing. I would imagine this was Berliner also (no documentation however), because I don't see him paying someone else to record it! Our 5 Berliner plays a total of 45 seconds! If it is pushing $2,000 with 7 days to go, one wonders where it will end up! WE HOPE TO SEE MANY OF YOU AT THE 26 ANNUAL CALIFORNIA ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH SHOW AUGUST 13 14. Scott Denise -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:21 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Model O Reproducer Instructions
You will note this is the first style of O with the small O stamped in the weight and the turn over knob with no pointer and the arrows on the end. The knurling is on the end. Around 8000 the large O stamped weights appear and around 9000 the knurling was inside and the arrows on the end. The pointer was added to the second style to form the third style. I have seen some in the upper 9000 range. If anyone has a Model O with a serial number below 5000 I am interested in getting its details. Steve From: a...@popyrus.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 09:44:37 -0600 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Model O Reproducer Instructions Has anyone further information on this? I'd like to see it as well. Best to all, Andy Baron On Aug 6, 2011, at 3:52 PM, john robles wrote: Hello all Someone had posted a jpg file of Model O instructions, and I would like to print it to go with my Model O. According to the page that was scanned and uploaded, it was from the August 1911 edition of the Edison Phonograph Monthly, but it doesn't appear in my copy (I have the full set issued by Wendell Moore). There are no missing pages. Anybody know why this would be? Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record
Thanks, I guess the 5 was made for a toy phonographs. Do you know how old yours is? I really appreciated the information. Steve From: sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 13:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Berliner record That appears to be a 5 Berliner. We recently were able to purchase one, and it looks identical (except for the title). They are VERY thin compared to the 7 Berliners and it's a wonder any survived at all. Not surprising that it is being sold in Germany where they were made. This title is probably the most sought after being Berliner's own voice. It is said that he recorded others as well. Our records is Barnyard sounds, which is rather poor imitations of clucking and mooing. I would imagine this was Berliner also (no documentation however), because I don't see him paying someone else to record it! Our 5 Berliner plays a total of 45 seconds! If it is pushing $2,000 with 7 days to go, one wonders where it will end up! WE HOPE TO SEE MANY OF YOU AT THE 26 ANNUAL CALIFORNIA ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH SHOW AUGUST 13 14. Scott Denise -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:21 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Berliner record Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Berliner record
Hello, Is this actually one of the first Berliner records? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/250864718289 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Test
Test successful, hopefully John will get this as well. Steve From: lo...@oldcrank.com Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:14:04 -0700 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Test Been working on the server this morning. Just making sure everything is up running! Thanks, Loran ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] FW: Wonder if this would be a good way to nickel plate phono parts.
Jim that I work with was looking into this as a substitute for chrome since chrome is so expensive due to environmental concerns. He decided against it because of all the prep work involved. The seller told him how easy it was but once he got serious and began to ask questions the complication began to show up. IF, a big IF, this process has been improved and simplified that is good, but you can still tell it is not chrome as it has a different look. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Polyphone horn
Hello, Is the a polyphone horn? Steve http://cgi.ebay.com/200632290986?clk_rvr_id=249607909914 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Singing bird pistols of 1820
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_QL8C4l6W4 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:33:53 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Singing bird pistols of 1820 Just take it over to Youtube. It there.. WWW. youtube.com/watch?v=yf5_a_AXivM Join the link back together. oldcranky On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 3:27 PM, harvey kravitz harveykrav...@yahoo.comwrote: Hi Gang I tried to forward the message, but the link won't show up on the email. If you go to Yahoo video and type in Singing bird pistols of 1820, It should come up. It's very interesting to see this. The craftsmanship in amazing. This is the ultimate Automaton or singing bird. Harvey Kravitz ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Union Phono, music boxe expo for 20012
Hello Mark Dawson, Have you ever seen a Woledge Amberola 30, or an Amberola 60 or 80?Living in NZ has its challenges phono wise but it also has opportunities that most of us will never get to experience. Best regards, Steve I am a humble kiwi who would like to attend the phono show in Union next year ? Have the dates been set for it yet? Always held somtime around the first two weeks in June?Your help would be most welcome! Cheers Mark Dawson New Zealand. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edison talking doll recording
http://www.nps.gov/edis/photosmultimedia/talking-doll-record-hear-the-recording.htm ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] FW: Frozen mandrel bearing
This is my opinion, I do not know if the pot metal or the bass would work better. I used the roller bearing on my standard D. Some pot metal holds up very well. The diamond B, diamond C and the late large dome tops are good examples of this. I have had some people think the early diamond C with the brass tube had a brass top when the diamond C never had a brass top. I have had two people tell me their late large dome tops were brass when only the first flat top O had a brass top. Victor was the same way the early ortho reproducers mostly swell while the later ones made for the suitcase machines can be mostly easily taken apart. Impurities cause pot metal to swell and even on the most swollen large tops, the early dome top is the works, the structural integrity is normally good even with the surface distortions. If the pot metal works why replace it? I had the bearing on my triumph nickel plated so it looks nice, I do not like the look of the brass. Steve CC: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: b...@taney.com Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 09:24:12 -0500 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] FW: Frozen mandrel bearing Is there any reason you would ever leave a potmetal bearing in one of these machines? I have always had it replaced whether it needed it or not figuring that it is easier to do when its not siezed and it is an inevitablity so why not replace it with a brass one... Am I missing something? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 8, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote: Potmetal continues to grow until it just crumbles. Reaming is a temporary fix. As someone else pointed out the bearing has probably been lubed with 3 in 1 in the red can which is a pure mineral oil with no rust or oxidation inhibitors and just soaking with Kroil will usually get it going again. Not all potmetal of that period is defective. Oxidized 3 in 1 is a powerful adhesive though. On 07/08/2011 08:31 PM, Steven Medved wrote: If I remember correctly the home and triumph pot metal bearings are thick, I would think if the shaft could be removed the bearing could be reamed out to the correct size and it could be used. Has anyone ever tried this? Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison Retail Cylinder Box???
Back when I used to look at all the Edison cylinder records on eBay I saw about 6 of them for sale on eBay over the years. I saved a photo of the 3 pack, it has the old couple listening on the other side. The old couple has a copyright of 190 and I cannot see the last number. It looks like the box itself has drawings of the cylinder record boxes with the cardboard peg inside that date from around then end of 1902 to 1904. Do you have a photo of the other side? I always thought they were the inside box for mailing cylinders. Steve From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 18:39:59 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Retail Cylinder Box??? I'm sure someone on the list can identify this box. It appears to be a three pack from 1905. Questions: What was it used for? Was it a special deal to buy three cylinders? How common/uncommon is this box? Does anyone have one like it? What would be a relative value? Any other information? This came from the recent phonograph auction in Raleigh, NC and no collectors that I know have ever seen one... http://www.preservemymoney.com/pictures/Edison_3_Box.jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] FW: Frozen mandrel bearing
I would be interested in knowing if it was the oil or the pot metal swelling. 3 in 1 is horrible, ever wonder what the varnish is on the governors? I rebuild reproducers and like Rich says 3 in 1 makes an excellent glue. If anyone wants any 3 in 1 I have two containers from the 1980's I will never use. Steve From: jnic...@fuse.net Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:45:02 -0400 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] FW: Frozen mandrel bearing I don't agree that the potmetal probably never will expand. I just took an Edison Standard Model D out of a closet where it sat untouched for several years. The bearing was stuck. It was fine the previous time I used it. Jim On Jul 9, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Rich wrote: If it was not crumbling or expanding by now it probably will not later so I would leave it. The problem is that the term pot metal actually describes nothing. What was the actual formula that was used to cast these bearings? What was the purity of the metals used? The lack of dimensional stability is the result of impunities introduced at manufacturer. The impurity content seems to have been random. On 07/09/2011 09:24 AM, Bill Taney wrote: Is there any reason you would ever leave a potmetal bearing in one of these machines? I have always had it replaced whether it needed it or not figuring that it is easier to do when its not siezed and it is an inevitablity so why not replace it with a brass one... Am I missing something? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 8, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Richrich-m...@octoxol.com wrote: Potmetal continues to grow until it just crumbles. Reaming is a temporary fix. As someone else pointed out the bearing has probably been lubed with 3 in 1 in the red can which is a pure mineral oil with no rust or oxidation inhibitors and just soaking with Kroil will usually get it going again. Not all potmetal of that period is defective. Oxidized 3 in 1 is a powerful adhesive though. On 07/08/2011 08:31 PM, Steven Medved wrote: If I remember correctly the home and triumph pot metal bearings are thick, I would think if the shaft could be removed the bearing could be reamed out to the correct size and it could be used. Has anyone ever tried this? Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison Retail Cylinder Box???
Jim, I would not call the cardboard boxes common they are harder to find than the Edison Standard Record boxes which I have seen about 50 of over the years. The boxes drawn on the cardboard box itself are common. Out of 2000 boxes 6 were the standard record boxes in one random lot. Steve From: jnic...@fuse.net Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 19:14:27 -0400 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Retail Cylinder Box??? Common seems a little off. I've never seen or heard of such boxes that I recall, and I've been to every Union show (but one) since 1976. Jim On Jul 9, 2011, at 7:00 PM, George Glastris wrote: They're fairly common. I have a couple of three cylinder size and a twelve cylinder. I also have a six cylinder size for wax Amberols which illustrates an Idelia instead of the old couple. I seem to remember someone selling them on eBay regularly. - Original Message - From: Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 5:39 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Retail Cylinder Box??? I'm sure someone on the list can identify this box. It appears to be a three pack from 1905. Questions: What was it used for? Was it a special deal to buy three cylinders? How common/uncommon is this box? Does anyone have one like it? What would be a relative value? Any other information? This came from the recent phonograph auction in Raleigh, NC and no collectors that I know have ever seen one... http://www.preservemymoney.com/pictures/Edison_3_Box.jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison Retail Cylinder Box???
I would appreciate the scan, no hurry. Your photo was very nice, much nicer than the other one I have. I enjoy photos of things I will likely never see in person. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 21:00:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Retail Cylinder Box??? I can scan the other side with the old couple on it. At the moment, I am re-inforcing the seams from the inside. A couple of the flaps were off and in the bottom of the box, so I decided to re-attach them by gluing strips from an old record sleeve to the inside for hinges. The date on the box is 1905. I'll try to scan it as soon as the glue dries... From: steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 19:52:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Retail Cylinder Box??? Back when I used to look at all the Edison cylinder records on eBay I saw about 6 of them for sale on eBay over the years. I saved a photo of the 3 pack, it has the old couple listening on the other side. The old couple has a copyright of 190 and I cannot see the last number. It looks like the box itself has drawings of the cylinder record boxes with the cardboard peg inside that date from around then end of 1902 to 1904. Do you have a photo of the other side? I always thought they were the inside box for mailing cylinders. Steve From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 18:39:59 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Retail Cylinder Box??? I'm sure someone on the list can identify this box. It appears to be a three pack from 1905. Questions: What was it used for? Was it a special deal to buy three cylinders? How common/uncommon is this box? Does anyone have one like it? What would be a relative value? Any other information? This came from the recent phonograph auction in Raleigh, NC and no collectors that I know have ever seen one... http://www.preservemymoney.com/pictures/Edison_3_Box.jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] FW: Frozen mandrel bearing
If I remember correctly the home and triumph pot metal bearings are thick, I would think if the shaft could be removed the bearing could be reamed out to the correct size and it could be used. Has anyone ever tried this? Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Beware of this seller on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/260383447532 Its back. Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:11:27 -0700 From: harveykrav...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Beware of this seller on Ebay I don't know if this is appropriate, but I will post it anyway. I have a Language phone disc machine made by Columbia. I was looking on ebay and found #260383447532. It was a set of books for a Language phone in Spanish dated 1917. I thought this would be a welcome addition to my Language phone machine. The seller's name is blue.moonbooks.and.antiques. I asked the usual questions before I bid. It was a buy it now for $24.95 or obo.. I put in a offer of $20.00 and got a notice that the price jumped up to $55.00 and my offer was declined. I contacted the seller and asked what was going on about the sudden change in price. She told me that she is a business woman and found out before I put in my offer, she reappraised the the value of the books. Needless to say I was pretty pissed off and let her know how angry I was. I haven't heard back from her and I doubt if I ever will. I know I will get a lot of flak saying that it's still her item and she can do what ever they want with it. I guess i'm trying to say,a person's word is thier most valuable asset. To me it is worth more than all the phonographs and riches in the world. The lesson I learned from this is phonographs are only a hobby, it's not worth getting mad at, and to move on. Also, I know to stay away from this seller. Thank you all for hearing me out. Before I forget, I checked the listing again and it was pulled. Harvey Kravitz ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] cylinder speed tester
I tried this, I had to count the times it hit my finger. From: tom...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:58:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] cylinder speed tester Please don't laugh, but I stick a small piece of paper under the edge of the cylinder on the mandrel and use a stop watch and count how many times the little piece of paper comes around. Just a little bit of basic math and you can accurately adjust the speed of your machine. I like to do things the hard way though. Tom -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Norman Bruderhofer Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 12:42 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] cylinder speed tester Hi Mike, You are certainly thinking of a laser techometer. These have become so cheap, that I can recommend to anyone as a useful tool. I bought my first one about five years ago for approx. $100, now they're down to as low as $12. I have one of these cheapos too. It has the same precision as my expensive one. You may want to consider this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/150600097532 And you don't need a special reflective tape, plain white paper will also work fine. Works also great with disc machines and modern turntables. Best, Norman On 06.07.2011 08:00, mdsor...@aol.com wrote: Hello everyone, Sometime about a year ago, there was discussion on phono-l about a way to test cylinder speed using an electronic instrument that could be cheaply found on ebay. Anyone remember what this was? I meant to buy one at the time, but lost all of the information. Any help is appreciated! Mike Sorter ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- Sent from my Thunderbird OpenSource Mail Client ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] E-mail from Lee Kirks daughter
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:59:01 -0800 From: lekirk...@sbcglobal.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need Address for Tim Fabrizio I am Brandy Kirk and I am so sorry to let you know that (pappa)Lee passed away January 28th at home. Hello Al, Here is a copy of the e-mail his daughter sent Feb 3, 2010. She used his Phono-L account to let us know. I purchased items from him on eBay and he was always wonderful to deal with. I still have some of the parts he made for the cygnet horns that look like chess pawns with holes in them. I did not need them but I thought it was so wonderful that he was making them that I puchased some. Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: clockworkh...@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 18:13:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Mandrel bearing removal - a few more suggestions... I sure hope that Lee Kirk is still with us. I have one of his mandrel bearing tools and it works great. I have also made a small 'fly cutter' with centering jig that does the same thing. Lee was making new Orthophonic diaphragms as I recall. He is is a kind person and a true friend to fellow collectors who know him. Now I have to find out if he is alright. Lee also made a mandrel removal tool that was much more gentle than whacking off the mandrel with a mallet. Anyone with machine tool skills can make one. It is just like an automotive wheel puller with two arms to grip the cylinder mandrel from behind and a screw with centering point for the mandrel shaft indentation. Some heat on the mandrel at the friction points holding the mandrel and a bit of Kroil will make mandrel removal quick, simple, and safe. One secret is to put on the Kroil, let it sit, then to gently tap a wooden block with a hole in the middle on the open end of the mandrel and drive it a fraction more ONTO the mandrel shaft which has been cleaned of oxide from between the mandrel and the bearing. This loosens the mandrel without the thin outer end deforming as the wood presses equally across the end surface. Then when the mandrel is free to slide the puller is put on and gently takes the mandrel off of the shaft after the exposed end has been clean of ox ide with crosus cloth. Liberal use of Kroil is advised and some may even be put into the mandrel through the holes (spray Kroil is good here). I once watched Tom Pollard remove a mandrel with a mallet and the sight of the mandrel flying off, bounding around the room, and landing at my feet was not a pleasant one. The indented outer end was not a pretty sight and the repair of an indented end is not fun. He did not repair the end. Now it is not always necessary to remove the mandrel bearing to affect a repair. Very often the bearing can be made serviceable again by attaching a speed control power drill to the mandrel shaft, applying some heat and penetrating oil, and slowly unsticking the bearing. In many cases the bearing is just fine. If a previous owner has used 3-in-1 oil on the bearing, the oil has turned to superglue. I always start by applying Kroil every hour or so then letting the bearing sit overnight. The next day the bearing is many times free with no other work needed and your machine remains all original. Finding a swollen bearing where the lubrication has solidified is not uncommon. Hope my comments help. May all your finds be rare ones, Al You are lucky to have one of those. I think they were made by Lee Kirk who assed away last year I think. ave ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] frozen Edison Home pot metal bearing
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=7t=5543 Hi Ron, It is muriatic acid. Steve From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:01:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] frozen Edison Home pot metal bearing I read somewhere about a technique involving sulfuric acid dripped into the oil hole to dissolve the pot metal. The acid is not supposed to bother paint or cast iron if I remember correctly. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of mdsor...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 2:16 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] frozen Edison Home pot metal bearing Here is another issue I am dealing with again. Who has the best idea for freeing up a frozen bearing on an Edison Home Model D without messing up the mandrel, the mandrel shaft, gearing, etc.? I have asked this before, and have received all sorts of answers--from heating with a blow torch to freezing in the freezer. I have a tough one right now that I don't want to mess up. How about it friends? Who can come up with the best way to get that bearing out? Thanks for any suggestions! Mike Sorter Riverside, CA ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] cylinder speed tester
Al, If you have ever been able to use those cylinder strobes you are much better than I ever was. The laser tachometers works very well. My one was right on, the other one was off by 1 rpm, but my DD that was at 76. Those rings are 1 6/10's of an inch apart and most machines do not have them. Steve With those Damn Curly Cue light bulbs, strobes dont work any more. You may want to consider this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/**150600097532http://cgi.ebay.com/150600097532 And you don't need a special reflective tape, plain white paper will also work fine. Works also great with disc machines and modern turntables. Best, Norman On 06.07.2011 08:00, mdsor...@aol.com wrote: Hello everyone, Sometime about a year ago, there was discussion on phono-l about a way to test cylinder speed using an electronic instrument that could be cheaply found on ebay. Anyone remember what this was? I meant to buy one at the time, but lost all of the information. Any help is appreciated! Mike Sorter __**_ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- Sent from my Thunderbird OpenSource Mail Client __**_ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] cylinder speed tester
Hi Mike, Norman found it cheaper, but that is the one both Dave Dazer and I have. http://cgi.ebay.com/150600097532 This is the one I have and Norman found it cheaper than I got it for. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001N4QY66/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8qid=1309982274sr=8-1condition=new Steve Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 19:41:39 +0200 From: phonol...@cylinder.de To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] cylinder speed tester Hi Mike, You are certainly thinking of a laser techometer. These have become so cheap, that I can recommend to anyone as a useful tool. I bought my first one about five years ago for approx. $100, now they're down to as low as $12. I have one of these cheapos too. It has the same precision as my expensive one. You may want to consider this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/150600097532 And you don't need a special reflective tape, plain white paper will also work fine. Works also great with disc machines and modern turntables. Best, Norman On 06.07.2011 08:00, mdsor...@aol.com wrote: Hello everyone, Sometime about a year ago, there was discussion on phono-l about a way to test cylinder speed using an electronic instrument that could be cheaply found on ebay. Anyone remember what this was? I meant to buy one at the time, but lost all of the information. Any help is appreciated! Mike Sorter ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- Sent from my Thunderbird OpenSource Mail Client ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] cylinder speed tester
Unfortunately none of my machines have the marks so I cannot compare. With the timing marks you have to wait one minute in 2 minute to tell or 2 minutes in 4 minute to tell and that was a pain to adjust. The strobes on the cylinder was impossible for me to read. I believe the laser is accurate because the machine I listen to all the time was right at 159.8 to 160.2. With the laser you can see the variations so if you have a machine that does not run steady you will know. My standard A is more steady than my triumph A. They give you reflective tape but white out works to pick up the laser and I have a record playing to test it under a load. Steve Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:28:45 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] cylinder speed tester So Steve how do the timing marks on the back rod compare to the laser? On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: Al, If you have ever been able to use those cylinder strobes you are much better than I ever was. The laser tachometers works very well. My one was right on, the other one was off by 1 rpm, but my DD that was at 76. Those rings are 1 6/10's of an inch apart and most machines do not have them. Steve With those Damn Curly Cue light bulbs, strobes dont work any more. You may want to consider this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/**150600097532http://cgi.ebay.com/150600097532 And you don't need a special reflective tape, plain white paper will also work fine. Works also great with disc machines and modern turntables. Best, Norman On 06.07.2011 08:00, mdsor...@aol.com wrote: Hello everyone, Sometime about a year ago, there was discussion on phono-l about a way to test cylinder speed using an electronic instrument that could be cheaply found on ebay. Anyone remember what this was? I meant to buy one at the time, but lost all of the information. Any help is appreciated! Mike Sorter __**_ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- Sent from my Thunderbird OpenSource Mail Client __**_ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Dearborn trip--Edison's last breath
However, his filament had low resistance, thus needing heavy copper wires to supply it. Jim, You are an electrical engineer, how much copper would have been necessary to provide a working low resistance lighting system for all of England? My understanding is that to employ a low resistance series method of electrical distribution would have used a tremendous amount of copper therefore the Swan system could not have been used. If a system cannot be used even if it works in a laboratory what good is it except for a curiosity? Steve Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 21:29:26 -0400 From: bi...@ftldesign.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Dearborn trip--Edison's last breath On 7/3/2011 8:38 PM, Jim Nichol wrote: I strongly disagree. Yes, Google will tell you that many others worked on the light bulb. But those stories all conclude that none of them were practical. Edison's contribution was not only that he invented the power plant, but more importantly, he invented the first practical incandescent bulb. The British would disagree: In 1850 Swan began working on a light bulb using carbonized paper filaments in an evacuated glass bulb. By 1860 he was able to demonstrate a working device, and obtained a British patent covering a partial vacuum, carbon filament incandescent lamp. However, the lack of a good vacuum and an adequate electric source resulted in an inefficient bulb with a short lifetime. Fifteen years later, in 1875, Swan returned to consider the problem of the light bulb with the aid of a better vacuum and a carbonized thread as a filament. The most significant feature of Swan's improved lamp was that there was little residual oxygen in the vacuum tube to ignite the filament, thus allowing the filament to glow almost white-hot without catching fire. However, his filament had low resistance, thus needing heavy copper wires to supply it.[7] Swan received a British patent for his device in 1878, about a year before Thomas Edison. In America, Edison had been working on copies of the original light bulb patented by Swan, trying to make them more efficient. Though Swan had beaten him to this goal, Edison obtained patents in America for a fairly direct copy of the Swan light, and started an advertising campaign which claimed that he was the real inventor. Swan, who was less interested in making money from the invention, agreed that Edison could sell the lights in America while he retained the rights in Britain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Swan -- Bill Burns Long Island NY USA http://ftldesign.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Dearborn trip--Edison's last breath
I've heard many people say that Edison didn't do ANYTHING worthwhile, or simply took credit for others' work. That is interesting because Edison stopped using patents and started using trade secrets because of all of his work that was stolen. That is why we have so little written information on so many things he did especially when it comes to reproducers and their improvement. Today when most people have a working knowledge of electricity it is easy to minimize what Edison did. Before Edison there was gas lighting and in some of the older houses you can see the converted gas to electric system. Edison did learn from the failures of those before him but there is no question he invented the parallel method of electrical distribution which allowed electricity to come into use. Before Edison you had the series method and there was not enough copper available to make the mains large enough to have a practical system for just one large city, let along the whole country. Here are a few things Edison did develop: the parallel circuit, a durable light bulb, an improved dynamo, the u nderground conductor network, the devices for maintaining constant voltage, safety fuses and insulating materials, and light sockets with on-off switches. Before Edison could make his millions, every one of these elements had to be invented and then, through careful trial and error, developed into practical, reproducible components. The first public demonstration of the Thomas Edison's incandescent lighting system was in December 1879, when the Menlo Park laboratory complex was electrically lighted. Edison spent the next several years creating the electric industry. If creating is not inventing then what is? After all that work he did he got kicked out of the company that without him would not have existed so even back then he had recognition problems. Steve From: jnic...@fuse.net Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 23:53:35 -0400 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Dearborn trip--Edison's last breath Yes, I know (some) British would disagree, but they're wrong. The part you quoted below about Swan stated that his filament had low resistance, thus needing heavy copper wires to supply it. That is the key reason that Swan and everyone but Edison completely failed to REALLY invent an incandescent light that didn't burn out right away. And not to mention that even if it somehow didn't burn out, it would still be useless for a home owner because of the high current needed to operate it. In the same Wikipedia article you quoted it said that Paul Israel concluded that the high resistance filament was the key invention, and why Edison's 22 predecessors failed. And later in the article is said that the US Patent Office thought about invalidating the patent, but concluded that the high resistance filament was a valid patent claim. So I repeat: What is the point of inventing non-working, non-practical light bulbs? None! They are all failures, not inventions. Edison himself made dozens of light bulbs that were utter failures. Such as platinum filaments, many of which required elaborate thermal cutout mechanisms inside the bulb to shut off power as the platinum reached melting temperature. Those weren't valid light bulbs any more than Swan's were. They were failed experiments, not real inventions. Edison would not have the nerve to claim a failed experiment was a valid invention, as some historians now do. Did any of you guys ever read all the detailed accounts of Edison working on the light bulb? As an electrical engineer, I was fascinated. Scientists of the day said that Edison's attempt to subdivide the light was against the laws of physics. They were thinking in terms of old-fashioned arc lights that used high current, and thus had to be wired in series. Only Edison understood that to succeed he needed high resistance lights, which allowed them to be wired in parallel. Imagine if there was no Edison, and most lights in your house or on your whole street had to be wired in series! Edison was so far beyond others in the field that there is no comparison. Jim On Jul 3, 2011, at 9:29 PM, Bill Burns wrote: On 7/3/2011 8:38 PM, Jim Nichol wrote: I strongly disagree. Yes, Google will tell you that many others worked on the light bulb. But those stories all conclude that none of them were practical. Edison's contribution was not only that he invented the power plant, but more importantly, he invented the first practical incandescent bulb. The British would disagree: In 1850 Swan began working on a light bulb using carbonized paper filaments in an evacuated glass bulb. By 1860 he was able to demonstrate a working device, and obtained a British patent covering a partial vacuum, carbon filament incandescent lamp. However, the lack of a good vacuum and an adequate electric source resulted in an inefficient bulb
Re: [Phono-L] Recreating Edison's Inventions... very educational... was Dearborn...
I like the yoke assembly of the Model O reproducer with the tiny -160 screw that goes into the stylus bar and holds on the washer with .019 arms that no one makes today because it is too complicated. 100 years later one would assume those items would be easily made. Steve From: clockworkh...@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 18:31:45 -0400 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Recreating Edison's Inventions... very educational... was Dearborn... From tinfoil phonographs to light bulbs, Edison made things that were practical and worked. If one does not realize the difficulty of Edison's inventions then one has not attempted to duplicate them. Has anyone ever played with a reproduction Bell telephone? Mine required shouting so loud that the person in the next room could hear me better through the wall than through the Bell telephone. It was Edison's carbon microphone that made it practical. As a retired Physicist and Physics teacher, I remember fondly of trying to make a tinfoil phonograph using the plans from the Edison Institute Ford Museum. Just the machine tool technology is impressive for today. Has anyone else on this list made a mandrel shaft and feedscrew for a Home, Triumph, or M class? I spent weeks last year doing just that. The 100 thread per inch buttress thread of the feedscrew is not easy to do. The tapered brass mandrel is an odd taper and I had a number of failures before I got one that was perfect. Only a few thousandths of an inch of slop in your taper attac hment and you are in trouble. My reproduction of the original tinfoil machine has never been completed because I became frustrated with my recording and playback styli. Just this week I am seeking the counsel of the most knowledgeable tinfoil expert in the world. When it comes to electric lighting, I have a San Francisco Market Street arc lamp in my collection. It draws 20 Amps at 80 Volts when struck, that's 1,600 Watts, and the carbon rods quickly burn out. Many years ago when teaching electrical circuits I had a setup to place a filament (a term coined by Edison as I recall) inside a bell jar that could be evacuated. Trust me, getting anything to last at incandescent temperatures is not easy, even today with all the knowledge we have. My students then had never given thought to the simple and ubiquitous light bulb. Usually they were enthralled by the warm glow coming from the bell jar. Many phonographic items were invented by Edison but he never got credit for them. Remember when the 'elliptical stylus' was introduced to play stereo LPs and was hailed as a great leap forward? What do you think the contact area of a 1902 Model C sapphire stylus is? Remember the switch from sapphire to diamond styli in the 1960s as playback equipment improved? That too was hailed. Linear tracking? Microgrooves? All the best Independence Day wishes to everyone, Al The price of Freedom is always paid in blood. Thank a veteran today. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Moses G Farmer
According to Wikipedia Farmer inspired Edison: With his partner William Wallace, he invented the an early dynamo which powered a system of arc lights he exhibited at the Centennial Exhibition of 1876 in Philadelphia, and which inspired Thomas Edison to work on an improved incandescent light. Edison used the Wallace-Farmer 8 horsepower (6.0 kW) dynamo to power his early electric light demonstrations (Jonnes, p47,54, Josephson 176-186). Farmer served as a teacher for a time. Farmer died at the World's Columbian Exposition. Farmer was a pioneer of many aspects of 19th century electrical invention, but, because he and his wife were spiritualists,they felt that their talents were God-given,and he felt that they shouldn't take credit for any of his inventions. As a result he failed to carry his ideas to commercial success. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_G._Farmer From: g...@usfamily.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 18:39:39 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Dearborn trip--Edison's last breath Search Google for who invented the light bulb and you'll see the overwhelming consensus that Edison did not invent it. He improved earlier light bulb inventions and designed power plants to power his light bulb. The most important part of this was that he marketed the entire lighting system, including bulbs, generators, and electrical grids, that municipalities could buy, making it a commercial success. I'm glad to hear the museum has it right. I'd like to point out that a distant relative, Moses G. Farmer, invented an electric light 20 years before Edison, patented it, and in 1858 his house in Salem, Massachusetts was the first in the world lit by electric light. It was not a failure, it actually worked, but it just was not commercially viable. -- Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: Jim Nichol jnic...@fuse.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Dearborn trip--Edison's last breath Oh, yes. The book is Expiration Date. Other comments about the museum: 1. I was quite unhappy that both a tour guide and a guy playing a young Tom Edison told us that Edison did NOT invent the light bulb, he only perfected it. I couldn't believe they were spreading this garbage to every visitor. Since when does it count when other people try to invent something and fail? I think the US Patent Office agrees with me on the light bulb. It's bad enough that they said that Edison didn't invent the light bulb. But they had to gall to have an actor playing Edison say it out loud. That is an unbelievably inaccurate portrayal of Edison. The actor did get in one jab, however. He pointed out that unlike the others who worked on the light bulb, his actually worked. 2. I'm unhappy that Edison is downplayed compared to how it used to be at the museum. The large phonograph display that was there in the 1970's wasn't there in 2009. The worst thing is that they renamed the complex The Henry Ford instead of using Ford's name for it: The Edison Institute. 3. I am very impressed that they have a Chrysler Turbine car there. As a kid, I saw one of the 50 produced that Chrysler was showing in a local shopping mall. Almost all of them were scrapped on purpose shortly thereafter. I just found out this week that Jay Leno has one (see video on YouTube). 4. I didn't see the Edison Waterpower Phonograph in 2009, but I believe I saw it there on my previous trip in 1997. Jim Nichol On Jul 3, 2011, at 2:54 PM, Dennis Back wrote: For those interested in this book, the title is Expiration Date and written by Tim Powers. It's a very good read, I might add. And Jim...I very much enjoyed your posts about the Menlo Lab and Ford's residence. Dennis ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Why did this go so high
In a free-market economy, things are, by definition, worth the highest price they can command. This is true under most conditions and would be true if the top 2 bidders knew what it was. Some people thought it was an Alva and the triumph is my favorite machine and I have photos of the Alva so I had no idea what it was. The ad and the photo makes a huge difference. A few years ago a standard A with 100% of the pinstriping GONE sold for $750 with an equally ratty horn because the seller, an antique dealer said it was the best he had seen in 30 years and it was mint. I got a blank weight C reproducer for $80 because the photo was poor and you had to really look to see the weight was blank during the time when they were selling for over $200. LightfootIA sold fairly common cylinder records for $30 to $40 with an excellent ad that told all about the performers and other interesting things. The way it was listed would make it difficult for most of the people with the advanced knowledge to know what it was to find it. I would suspect the number of individuals who would recognize it as a early coin-op mechanism is not large and the portion of that population who are sufficiently computer literate to search out all of the poor listings makes the pool even smaller. Not to mention buying a mecanism without already having a cabinet to put it into does not make much sense. On 06/20/2011 03:02 PM, richard_ru...@hotmail.com wrote: I'd say he got a major windfall anyway. How much do you think he paid for it to begin with? The starting price was $9.99; I bet he would have made money even if it had sold for that. I'm sure he was deliriously happy with the outcome. I doubt any picker -- or anyone without a great deal of specific expertise -- could have found out much more about it than he already knew when he posted the thing. Certainly it would have taken much more than just basic research. Besides, a number of bidders obviously knew what it was, or else it wouldn't have fetched even $100. In a free-market economy, things are, by definition, worth the highest price they can command. So, in fact, this motor is worth $3,750, not $15,000. If it were worth $15,000, someone would have paid that much for it. There is no shortage of phonographic expertise (or expertise of any kind) out in Ebay-land. Lots of people saw this and knew exactly what it was. The highest any of them was willing to go was $3,750. Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:04:01 -0500 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Why did this go so high This is what happens when these pickers fail to do even any basic research. They miss out on a major windfall. I have a very early business machine sitting over here with one of those type motors in it. On 06/20/2011 06:40 AM, bruce78...@comcast.net wrote: I bet you could have knocked the seller over with a feather, after the final bidding !! He obviously would be even more in shock, if he knew what the ultimate potential value of his little hunk of worthless iron and strange looking parts actually is. - Original Message - From: clockworkh...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:46:07 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Why did this go so high This is the works from an Edison Eclipse coin op. The motor is the *correct*bipolar motor and not one of the Econowatt Business Phonograph swap ins that are the norm. All you need to do with this one is drop it into the correct cabinet with coin drop box and trip. The extra hole in front of the straight edge is for the coin trip rod. For a purist, this original unmodified Eclipse mechanism is better than solid Platinum. I actually think it went rather low since the listing did not call it a phonograph or state what it really was. An Edison Record Player is hardly enough to describe how really rare that machine was. If I had a spare Eclipse cabinet missing the phonograph mechanism I would have bid upward of $15,000. Regards to all, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Why did this go so high
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem_trksid=p4340.l2557rt=ncnma=trueitem=370516172743 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] I'll buy that and what is your address? - A favor
Rich, off list, If Eric Holder and Wiener ran for president it would be Wiener Holder. I really liked the dig you got r in. Steve Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:39:45 -0500 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] I'll buy that and what is your address? - A favor The problem is this. Many members of this list use a web based email portal or email program that is set up by default to display subject only. As we have a discovered over many years of email lists there are various levels of computer expertise among the list participants. This makes it difficult for some people to know exactly who they are responding to and/or how to change the subject line. So, to address this I have found that setting up the stand alone e-mail program so as to display a complete preview window when the subject is selected. If the actual message is seriously off topic and of no interest it is rapidly dealt with. I have noticed over the years that all the requests to put OT in the subject, change the subject to be germane, reply off list etc. Just do not really have much impact other than to seriously chill the list traffic. I have also found that attempting to help someone setup an email program over the internet is near impossible. So I just don't worry much about off topic, incorrect subject, mis directed replies and the other things that happen. Just think how many people in the corporate/government world have seriously limited or terminated their careers by not being email/computer literate. Weiner anyone? Rich On 06/15/2011 12:34 PM, Dennis Back wrote: From: Richrich-m...@octoxol.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] I'll buy that and what is your address? - A favor To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wednesday, June 15, 2011, 8:19 AM It is not a big deal John, I know how the DELETE key works. Dear Rich and the group, I assure you I know how to use the DELETE key, also. Thing is...I elect to receive my emails with a title only, meaning I do not see a preview of the first 2 lines. I prefer it this way due to space on my email page. I not know what is in the email until I open it. That said, I have been following the Ferguson thread, because several of the emails had questions and answers pertaining to John's book, the label he was including, and also the content of the book. There was also talk of the death of Kimmett. In addition, there was also a discussion of copyright rules. Had I DELETED the emails, I would not have seen these posts, and yes, I am interested in all of the above. I, too, have the original booklet and purchased it from Leo years ago. So that is why I didn't use the DELETE key, and requested that members please double check so that they send private emails to the private email addresses and not to the list. This is common internet protocol. Yes, I have on occasion made the mistake of sending an email public when I intended to send it privately. As I said in my first email, I do make mistakes. I hope this explains my original post. Regards, Dennis --- On Wed, 6/15/11, Richrich-m...@octoxol.com wrote: ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison Army /Navy DD
On the special machines Edison started the serial numbers with 1001, like the Amberola 60 and 80. With regards to the number known you have to rely upon other collectors to provide serial numbers and with rare machines this is normally not possible. I am still looking for O reproducer information on reproducers with serial numbers below 5000. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] External Horn Amberola 30
For the original owner it was a good way to repair a broken 30 with earlier parts. If you have ever worked on machines that were repaired by owners you can appreciate this. The machine has appeal only as a parts machine to me. Awesome? I don't think so. And I know you were kidding. --Art Heller ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] BILLY JONES, LOVE HER BY RADIO, 50982
Does anyone have a recording of this they can e-mail me? Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Desperately Seeking Cylinder
The 2 minute cylinders made of the wax amberol wax are that way, but the regular ones are very durable. In 2015 all the 2 minute Edison cylinders will be over 100 years old and look at all of the ones still around. If the wax amberol wax was stored properly they are not that bad either. Those d#$n 2 minute wax cylinders... you could crack one by looking at it wrong or thinking about playing it. I love indestructibles... Curt ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] 3 Known
Bruce, In the case of a machine like yours even if if there are twice as many existing as are currently known it is a very hard to find machine. Steve Steve, I agree completely and hope for collectors interested in these machines that at least a few more will be found. The thing that supports the 'few' is that they were made for only a year (more like 10 months), were very expensive and a good estimate of orginal production numbered about 200 machines. Frow wasn't much help. It seems that somebody at the National Monument could be a scource of desperately needed information regarding that machine and the number mfg.. I bought the machine from Charley H. and in talking with him and at least one other rabid collector, those are the numbers that are known and a good guess as to the number built. Charley told me he had gotten the machine from the original owner in N.J., somebody that had worked for Edison. There were many old pictures, some autographed, all to do with Edison or the Company on the walls, when he got the machine. He thought it to be someone high up in the Company. As far as I'm concerned I hope 100 more turn up sooner than later. It wouldn't affect the value of mine in the least, not to me anyway. Spread the happiness. Very best, Bruce M. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] 3 Known
Barry, With regards to machines like the Amberola 60 and 80 I have tried to research how many were made or left and so far I have not had much luck. I think it is great to see how many machines were made and how many survive. Like The Edison C-2, I thought it was so rare I would never hope to have one. I have had 3. And Chuck Azzalina had 7 in his basement last time I was there to fix. He started keeping count thinking the number surviving was in the 10's and stopped at 200 or so known. Same with C-1. There were 2 know for the longest time, then 2 more showed up then 1 more now I think there are about 10 or so out there. It isn't how many but how cool they are. C-1 and C-2 are very special machines and would be cool if there were 2000 left. I actually prefer if something I like is common, it means I can afford it :-). Collecting just so you can say you have 1 of only 2 known is what some people collect for but I am not one of them. -Barry ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Smith's Horns
Hello Jay, It is a beautiful machine and in my opinion it would sell for more than a regular Gem. I like how someone fixed it up. Speaking of fixing things up does anyone have any photos of the horns the Smiths used to sell that they had restored? They came to the Orlando show and just seeing their horns was worth the price of admission. I never thought to photograph them until it was too late. Steve Factory painted or not, I think it looks nice. If I wanted a gem, I would buy it, if the price was right. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Body and case are wood, painted black. Edison did not paint cases and lids black, especially covering his trademark decal on the lid. This did not come from the factory like that. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:20:57 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
As far as he knows is a very loaded statement. In other words within the realm of his knowledge. He is either a cheat or knows very little. Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] R and S Reproducers
The Victor reproduce manual says to adjust until it barely touches, but I have found you get more volume and better sound with it away slightly. Thanks for your feedback. Steve From: a...@popyrus.com Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 16:09:23 -0600 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] R and S Reproducers Thanks Steve for these insights. Especially for the tip on maintaining a .003 gap between needle bar and mica on the Exhibition. I wasn't aware of that, and always adjusted until it just touched before securing and waxing the screw. Andy Baron On Apr 5, 2011, at 12:37 PM, Steven Medved wrote: The best way to check out an S reproducer is to gently blow and suck in the sound tube to see how much of an air leak you have. Originally the R and S was made with a slot to allow the compression ring to be tightened or loosened to control the sound. The ones with large air leaks will not sound very good. On most of the R and S the 4 minute stylus is worn and can be rotated. I found a way to separate the ones with the brass bottoms with no damage, but I still need to devise a way to remove the compression ring which is normally stuck. I rebuilt an R and rotated the stylus, I compared it with two other R reproducers. The one was air tight, the other had a bad leak. The one that was rebuilt sounded very close to the air tight one, the bad air leak sounded bad especially in the higher end. Edison used soft natural rubber which had better bass response. Replacing gaskets in Edison reproducers with no air leaks makes very little difference, Edison is not gasket driven like Victor's Exhibition is. With the Exhibition the sound quality comes from the gaskets, the mica, and the needle bar adjustment which should be .003 away from the mica, touching dampens the sound, before you tighten the screw. Edison reproducers need to have all the parts moving freely and the stylus in good condition. I have worked on Edison reproducers that had new gaskets along with stuck stylus bars and broken diamond styli and they sounded horrible. Rebuilding is not just changing gaskets. Steve Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:54:46 -0700 From: hexaph...@sbcglobal.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Wanted: S Reproducer Pinging the 'list'anyone have or know of an available S reproducer? Please email off list with any prospects. Thanks! Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair
If you buy a reproducer you can count on the diamond being bad, 2 and only 2 of the Diamond ABC reproducers I have rebuilt have had good diamonds, the rest were worn or damaged. I purchased an Edisonic on eBay with a good diamond and recently I did a Dance and and Edisonic for a man and both diamonds were good. This is the exception rather than the rule. People think diamonds are indestructible but I NEVER play any DD record with surface damage and I lower my stylus in the starting groove then I spin up the record, and I stop the record before I raise the reproducer. When used as a stylus diamonds in DD reproducers are weak and must be carefully shielded from damage: Toughness Toughness relates to a material's ability to resist breakage from forceful impact. The toughness of natural diamond has been measured as 3.4 MN m-3/2,[10] which is good compared to other gemstones, but poor compared to most engineering materials. As with any material, the macroscopic geometry of a diamond contributes to its resistance to breakage. Diamond is therefore more fragile in some orientations than others. According to Edison Diamond Disc Re-Creations records artists 1910-1929 page 107: In this process the diamonds were first silver plated, then mounted on rods with paraffin, plated for 72 hours with nickel layers electro deposited under tension. The styli were thus held under layers of nickel at thousands of pounds of pressure. The nickel-encased diamonds were then polished to conical shape, the nickel at the stylus point being found away as the diamond was polished. The finished stylus was then soldered into its stylus bar. In the early days, bare diamonds were just soldered into bars and were prone to breakage when carelessly lowered onto the record. The original DD styli were soldered in, Edison stopped this practice when it was noted that such diamonds were prone to damage when carelessly lowered onto records. The earliest bars have the bare diamond soldered in; the later ones were first plated with nickel and then soldered in. To understand this think of a wooden pencil the diamond is the lead. When the pencil is sharpened the wood is removed and the lead is shaped, the wood is the nickel and the lead is the diamond. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 21:18:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair I went through that whole thing with a DD player I had. I actually thought it would be better to buy an entire reproducer, because of the cost... but I bought it on eBay - it had a diamond, but it was bad - it played, but tore up records. It took buying three to get one decent one. There is no way to determine if an eBay seller actually knows if they are good or bad - some might, but more than likely, you will get one that someone else had trouble with. Buy one from a reputable phono guy like George Vollema in Michigan or Ron Sitko, its worth it. Even if you buy the stylus mounted on a needle bar - those reproducers are a pain to rebuild, especially removing and replacing the needle bar and trying not to break the little string that connects it... It takes a punch the size of a blunt needle to remove the pin, which is also rounded on the end and since they have been in there almost 100 yrs., they can be very aggravating. All in all, if you don't need more stress in your life, buy a rebuilt one from someone who knows how to do it - a jeweler most likely will not. Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 18:19:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Curt, Thanks for the response. I saw those kind of prices out there. I was considering checking with a local jeweler if I could find the specifications of the actual diamond point. The repair cost seems rather high in comparison of the whole reproducer. Thanks, Ken B. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:22 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair A new one is $80 to $100 on a new stylus bar, last time I checked - might have gone up a little since then. You can probably get one from Ron Sitko. If a jeweler could set one it would probably cost that much or more and if your diamond fell out and you have it, it may have been damaged... Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:17:50 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Does anyone on this list know the specifications for the diamond point for the Edison diamond disk reproducers? Is this something that a jeweler could set? I have heard some pretty high prices for stylus bar repairs and was just wondering if a
Re: [Phono-L] [phonolist] 5700 series Blue Amberols
From Ron D: Bill, I assume they finally recorded DDs at 78 because it was the same speed as needle cut Edison discs. The change was made in Feb. 1929 when the old 79 Fifth Avenue Studios were abandoned for new ones further up 5th avenue. All DDs with matrix numbers of 19025 and above were recorded at 78 rpm. When dubbing to 160 rpm Blue Amberols from 78s, the master was simply played at 78 rpm into the cylinder recorder. The Edison Co. advised dealers to tell customers to play old 80 rpm DDs at 79 rpm as a happy medium for both types of Edison records. I suspect that customers may not have noticed the difference between 78 and 80 rpm when playing discs. Ron I will have to look it up but I think just after matrix number 19000. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison 2min Mexican cylinders
The best thing is to alway bid, I got mine for around $70. The 2 minute BA is loud and clear with more surface noise than a regular wax cylinder. The wax amberol wax cylinders when worn have a lot more surface noise. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Tone arm cast mount for Victor VV 2-40 needed( Norm Smith contact info)
http://www.wwindups.com/ This has the Smith's contact info. From: maff...@bresnan.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 07:14:59 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Tone arm cast mount for Victor VV 2-40 needed( Norm Smith contact info) Phono Listers: Does anyone on this list have the contact information for the Smiths, who previously made the reproduction cast tone arm pivot mounts for some of the Victor machines? In the event they no longer do so, any other sources for the cast mounts? I may have the wrong name for the part however, it is the cast mount at the rear of the tone arm, which the tone arm fits into and rotates with a pin in the top of the mount, fastened by a small set screw in the cast piece ,set in the top of the tone arm. I need 2 cast mounts for the tone arm on a VV 2-40 portable suitcase model. Later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] NOS Diaphragm?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Reproducer-Copper-Diaphragm-New-Old-stock-/250785024210 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Black Patti... Black Swan
All the people that liked Lombarda are either gone or they refuse to admit it, have you ever seen one of his records that looked played? Somebody must have liked Lombardo - there sure are a lot of his records around... :) (although, they might have survived since no one played them) From: steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:56:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Black Patti... Black Swan They are not half bad they are half good. But to take a Black Patti and a Black Swan and give Jerry a Welk and a Lombardo in exchange..that is sad. I think the early Guy Lombardo's on the Okeh label from the late 1920s are not half bad actually. Same goes with Lawrence Welk from the late 1920s. -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:37 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Black Patti... Black Swan hose are impossible to enjoy no matter what the song. ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4qcCIH0yg0 NAH ITS A GUY LOMBARDO That's right... you snatched a Black Swan out of my hands and gave me a Glen Miller saying I'd enjoy it more. Jerry __ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Black Patti... Black Swan
Those are impossible to enjoy no matter what the song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4qcCIH0yg0 NAH ITS A GUY LOMBARDO That's right... you snatched a Black Swan out of my hands and gave me a Glen Miller saying I'd enjoy it more. Jerry ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Black Patti... Black Swan
They are not half bad they are half good. But to take a Black Patti and a Black Swan and give Jerry a Welk and a Lombardo in exchange..that is sad. I think the early Guy Lombardo's on the Okeh label from the late 1920s are not half bad actually. Same goes with Lawrence Welk from the late 1920s. -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:37 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Black Patti... Black Swan hose are impossible to enjoy no matter what the song. ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4qcCIH0yg0 NAH ITS A GUY LOMBARDO That's right... you snatched a Black Swan out of my hands and gave me a Glen Miller saying I'd enjoy it more. Jerry __ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] In The Groove - Upcoming Events calendar
I belong to both CAPS and MAPS, both are very enjoyable. My favorite issue of The Sound Box is September 2006 with the George Paul Home article. I keep it on my desk and reference it often. That one article was worth my membership dues for all the years I have belonged to the new and improved CAPS. My favorite issue of In The Groove is the current one. It has many wonderful photos beginning with the cover. Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: gpaul2...@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 11:41:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] In The Groove - Upcoming Events calendar Tim has indeed made some great improvements to In The Groove. I'm paid up for the next two years! I'd like to also recommend the California Antique Phonograph Society's journal, The Sound Box, to all collectors. You can look over an issue at www.antiquephono.org. and join up if you like what you see (either Paypal or check). George P. -Original Message- From: bruce78rpm bruce78...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:36 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] In The Groove - Upcoming Events calendar Yes, ditto on all of that. A first class, thoroughly interesting and informative publication, written by collectors for collectors. Bruce - Original Message - From: Loran T. Hughes lo...@oldcrank.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 11:27:53 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] In The Groove - Upcoming Events calendar Tim, you've done a wonderful job with ITG... list members, if you are not currently a member of MAPS, I encourage you to pop over to MAPS-ITG.org and check it out (follow the current website link to view a sample issue of ITG). I consider my back issues of 'In the Groove' as much a part of my collection as any other piece. Regards, Loran On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 8:43 PM, Tim McCormick d...@themccormicks.com wrote: Folks, I am getting ready to finish up the April/May edition of In The Groove. The biggest problem I have is knowing what upcoming events to list. I would be very pleased if you could provide me the information for additional upcoming events, shows and chapter meetings. What I have thus far is listed below. Please E-Mail me at edi...@maps-itg.org with more event listings: Upcoming Events APRIL 3, 2011 - North Reading, Massachusetts - The Next Meeting of Massachusetts Old Colony Antique Phonograph Society (MOCAPS) will be hosted by member Robert Richter at his home at 283 Elm Street on Sunday, April 3rd from noon until we're done! All MAPS Members and invited new-member candidates are welcome to join us for this meeting's theme Where the sound begins, demonstrations and presentations about phonograph reproducers and soundboxes, needles and styli, and needle tins. We'll rebuild Edison reproducers and Victor soundboxes. A key topic for this meeting is recruiting new members from the six state New England area in conjunction with MAPS. As always, food, dessert and beverage donations are welcome. Please call 978 664 4282 or e-mail an RSVP to r...@bobscomp.com Robert Richter. APRIL 10, 2011 - Wayne Mechanical Music Extravaganza. For details, contact: Michael Devecka, 206 Park St, Montclair, NJ 07042 - 973-655-9730 email: mid...@earthlink.net APRIL 15 16, 2011 - Stanton's Spring Auction of Music Machines. APRIL 15, 2011 - Deadline for June/July In The Groove submissions. MAY 11-14, 2011 - ARSC Conference in Los Angeles. Website is www.arsc-audio.org/conference Send your Event and upcoming MAPS Chapter Meeting information to edi...@maps-itg.org Thanks, Tim Tim McCormick, President Michigan Antique Phonograph Society presid...@maps-itg.org www.MAPS-ITG.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] victrola number 4 a reproducer
Hello Sean, You are correct, the No 4 was made to allow people who could not afford a new machine to play electrical records. The first nickel and gold plated ones are made of brass, the later No 4 A 's are pot metal. Some of the 4 A 's have a No 2 mica in an aluminum reducer. The HMV 4 first came in all brass, the second version has a brass front and a pot metal back, the final version is pot metal on the front and back. The two differences in the HMV and the No 4, the HMV does not have the lines in the body and the HMV does not have the thin area under the base of the needle bar so it is not prone to breaking in half like the pot metal Victor will. The No 4 was found on suitcase and table models. The HMV pot metal is much more stable. The first style of pot metal No 4 has the small round castings that hold the needle bar sleeve bearings or pivots, it looks like they used the brass molds to make them. The later ones are larger and flat on the back. If anyone want to see any photos of the scan of the only brochure I have ever seen offering the Nickel plated one for $5 or the gold for $6 I will be happy to send them an e-mail. The brochure basically says what the box does. The Exhibition A is also pot metal. The pot metal Victor reproducers are not stable until the time when the suitcase models came out. If you read the box the No 4 A came in it says: The Victrola No 4 Sound Box was designed and perfected for use with old style Victrolas manufactured by the Victor Company prior to August, 1925. This sound box will immeasurably improve the tonal quality of old Victrolas; but it should not be confused with the New Orthophonic Victrola and the principle of matched impedance (controlled by the Victor Company) which has so completely revolutionized the art of reproducing sound. This sound box on your old-style Victrola will greatly increase your enjoyment of the new Orthophonic Record. But be sure to hear the new Orthophonic Record played on the new Orthophonic Victrola, which represents the ultimate in musical reproduction. OLD STYLE AMPLIFYING HORN used in the cabinet type Victrola prior to August, 1925. ORTHOPHONIC TONE CHAMBER embodying the new discovery - matched impedance which permits the smooth uninterrupted flow of sound. This principle is employed exclusively in the new Orthophonic Victrola. Steve From: smil...@nycap.rr.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:37:31 -0500 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] victrola number 4 a reproducer The #4 came out in, I believe, 1925 when Orthophonics were introduced. The 4-A is pot metal. The 4 is not and they're not too common. I picked up a 1-70 last fall with a really nice 4-A on it that wasn't falling apart. Be careful, I've had them crumble in my hands doing rebuilds. They sound really great if you can get them apart without them falling apart. You need to use a slightly cut down Grafonola gasket on one side and a regular white gasket on the other to get the best sound. It provides the perfect seal. Ebay seller soundgen was selling replacement gaskets that are super, but they seem to be unavailable these days. Sean On Feb 25, 2011, at 7:26 PM, David Dazer wrote: I think the needle bars a kind of fragile and break easily. Dave --- On Fri, 2/25/11, zonophone2...@aol.com zonophone2...@aol.com wrote: From: zonophone2...@aol.com zonophone2...@aol.com Subject: [Phono-L] victrola number 4 a reproducer To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 7:17 PM on another note anyone know much about this reproducer other than it came out late 20s ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Let us not forget....
Hello Brad, If an Edison record remained in the catalog long enough it can be found in the earliest form, celluloid surfaces, and the last style of white label. I believe Let Us Not Forget came out around the time when the surface noise was the worse and I have seen it in white label on eBay but I did not pay attention to which label it was. I have My Bambazoo in celluloid and on the white label, both sound good with the later one sounding a bit better. Too bad WWI caused Edison all the problems with surface noise. (His chemicals came from Germany and the war to end all wars ended Edison's sound quality for a while) Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:22:17 -0500 From: mdsor...@aol.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Let us not forget Hi Brad, The first cylinders that came out of Let Us Not Forget did not have the music at the end. Essentially it is a 4 minute blue amberol with about a 2 minute speech on it. The later released cylinders have the additional music track added. This is actually the more desirable of the cylinders. There are at least a couple of takes. One you can hear a bump either at the beginning or at the end (I think it was the beginning) where either Edison or his assistant hit the recording horn. Also, I think on that same version, you can hear one of the recorders say cut at the end of the recording. These are the intersting variations that I know of. The cylinders were dubbed from diamond disc, but I haven't listened to my different diamond discs to hear the differences...I have just done it with the cylinder copies I have owned over the years. There was a special sleeve that came out with the Diamond Disc. I know that the first released diamond discs were etched. But you could still get that record later in the 1920's, and so could have a white label diamond disc. I have had 3 copies of Let Us Not Forget on diamond disc, and all 3 were etched. I wish I could find a white label copy, as the surface noise on these later diamond discs is so much more minimal. If you have Charles Gregory's wonderful set of books on diamond discs, check out volume 1, page 308 and 309 for a copy of the sleeve. Happy collecting. Mike Sorter, Riverside, CA -Original Message- From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Phono L phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Fri, Feb 25, 2011 6:17 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Let us not forget hose are great questions -- I'd love to know as well. To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: out...@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 19:54:46 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Let us not forget I would be interested in any information on the Let Us Not Forget ecords--both Diamond Disc and cylinder. I recently picked up a nice Blue mberol long version with the Star Spangled Banner-- and have two DD's. Are there different 'takes' or pressings of these records? When was the peech actually recorded? Both my DD's are etched, but did it also come in a paper label version? Was here a special sleeve to go along with it? On the cylinder, what band is playing the National Anthem? and again, were here different versions? I know someone has researched this-- I'd love to know. Thanks- Brad ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org __ hono-L mailing list ttp://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Black Patti... Black Swan
Did you enjoy the Glen Miller more? If it was this one you would have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HeiunP7flgfeature=fvst Steve That's right... you snatched a Black Swan out of my hands and gave me a Glen Miller saying I'd enjoy it more. Jerry ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Who was asking about the Gem D? Here is a D with an E carriage
http://cgi.ebay.com/160549040696 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Gem D or E
The earlier phonos had the first letter of the machine in the serial number like the H in home and S in standard and G in gem. The early C and D models have the C or D at the end of the serial number. In 1908 for a while the B C and D models were made at the same time which is why you will see a lot of variety. I have seen a Gem D with the Gem decal and a home B with the decals instead of the pin striping on the bedplate. The home, standards, and Gems went to decals on the bedplate so you see variety, the Triumph never had decals. The later D models and all the E and later have a space for the model designation. You can see recycled ID plates with one model Xed out and another stamped in. Any corrections are appreciated. From: tom...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:49:37 -0600 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Gem D or E Please excuse this possibly obvious question, but is the model of Gem D, E, etc., identified by the letter preceding the rest of the serial number? For instance, I have a GEM with a serial number of G694916. Sometimes what seems obvious really isn't. That's why I ask. Thank you. Tom -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of clockworkh...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:40 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Gem D or E The Model D Gems are not uncommon but one in perfect shape is scarce at best. The 2 and 4 minute Gem D is a good machine but the K Reproducer has issues of its own and must be in great shape for best sound reproduction. The very rare Gem Model E has the larger diaphragm N Reproducer which plays 4 minute Amberol Records very nicely. There are Gem Ds on eBay with great regularity. They vary in price from $650 to $2,000+ (all original cleaned up and looking brand new) depending on who is bidding and the presentation of the machine in the photos. The horn condition is always a problem since the clear lacquer red tint is easily worn off, chipped off, and scratched off. The maroon paint on the machine is not that durable either. It is my estimate that less than 300 Gem Model E machines were made. Probably less than 50 have survived and having collected for nearly 50 years I have only known of 4 examples. The Gem E on eBay now is the fourth machine and from the opening bid price the seller knows of the rarity. The serials numbers were intermixed with the late Gem D so the only accurate source of the information would the archives at the Edison National Historic Site which are closed to all but a few. Regards to all, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Argosy reproducer
What got me interested was the drawing in the Frow book, I figured if it was so rare that only a drawing was available I wanted to find one. Years later I saw one on eBay and I decided to wait until the auction ended and I wrote the buyer who thanked me and sent me photos. So far I have seen two of these and have photos of a third one. Has anyone seen the machine they go to? Steve From: ediso...@verizon.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:41:42 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Argosy reproducer I bought a 2/4 Columbia machine some years ago, which had a Dictaphone reproducer in the carriage and a surprise Argosy hiding inside the cabinet. While it works okay, it's such a close copy of a Columbia Lyric that I see no reason to want the Argosy, aside from the collectors who must have 'one of everything'. For playing celluloid cylinders, I much prefer an Edison machine with a Diamond B on a large-eyed carriage, or the Edison R on small-eyed carriages. - Original Message - From: Brad abell out...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: [Phono-L] (no subject) Phono friends- I continue to learn much about this hobby. I have just listed (actually relisted) on Ebay a reproducer that I thought was a Columbia off-shoot--perhaps even dictaphone. Some extremely helpful collectors have identified it as a German Argosy reproducer-- so, it is relisted with that information. I'd appreciate it if you would take a look and if anyone can shed further light on the machine it would be used on, or the company that made it, I would love to hear more. Item # is 220743452676. Thanks- Brad ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] I am looking for an original limit screw for an automatic REPRODUCER
steve_nor...@msn.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Needed limit screw for automatic recorder
steve_nor...@msn.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Let us not forget
Is this title being newly made? Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works great on disc machines
Tim, I looked at the reviews for this one on amazon and it had good reviews. Steve Steve, I have not seen that particular brand, but the price is perfect! Anthony Sinclair devotes a large portion of his column in the February/March edition of In The Groove (ITG) to a hand held Tachometer similar to the one on eBay. Faris Mailing was supposed to mail this edition of ITG in today's mail, but I fear the nasty weather may be slowing them down a bit. Speaking of the weather, we have 4 inches of ice on the ground and high winds. We lost our power for a little more than an hour. It was the perfect excuse to wind up my Orthophonic VV 7-3 and play some early electricals that I had not heard. Hard to beat a warm fire in the fireplace, dog snoring on the couch, adult beverage in hand and Fred Waring playing on a Victrola. Tim Tim McCormick, President Michigan Antique Phonograph Society presid...@maps-itg.org www.MAPS-ITG.org -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:49 AM To: Phono-l Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works great on disc machines GrnMountainBill You are 100% correct, I saw this one on amazon but I did not realize it was the same as the one on eBay. Thanks for the post. Have you used yours and how far off was your machines? On the cylinder machines I set the device on the rail and I use one record with the sticker on it. Whiteout works, I have one DD record with a crack, I marked the end of the crack with whiteout to protect my needle and it picked it up. Thanks, Steve Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 10:02:44 -0500 From: rochr...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works great on disc machines Steve: I found mine on Amazon for much less: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001N4QY66/ref=asc_df_B001N4QY661415145?smid= AFLT987H7WA7Gtag=dealtmp4800-20linkCode=asncreative=395105creative ASIN=B001N4QY66 GrnMountainBill On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: Hello Cylinder Phono owners, Are you tired of using those hard to read strobes for your cylinder player or the dreaded count the piece of paper hitting your finger? If so you can measure the RPM's with the: Wood/Metal Lathe Digital LCD Tachometer RPM Tool/Guage (how the eBay seller spelled it) Neither Dave or I are selling them but they work incredibly well. Dave told me about them and I am sharing them with you. Up until now I used my ear to time my cylinder phonos. My triumph was right on, my standard was 1.5 rpm high and my DD was low. Those of you with hundreds of machines can have hours of fun. http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40_trksid=m570_nkw=Wood%2FMetal+Lathe +Digital+LCD+Tachometer+RPM+Tool%2FGuage http://tinyurl.com/632kqad Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works great on disc machines
GrnMountianBill, Thanks, disc machines are nice to time that way, I like having the tool. Steve Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 11:53:42 -0500 From: rochr...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works great on disc machines Steven: All four of my old machines were off (three cylinder machines and a DD) but I tend to like records played a little slower than some people because, in particular, I think the voices sound more natural at slower speeds. I recently got a little support for my theory when I read the story 1920s Jazz at 78rpm? in Sandy Brown Jazz ( http://www.sandybrownjazz.co.uk/whatsnew.html). I may not be nuts after all. I cut a tiny piece of white sticky paper to attach to the mandrels and turntable for the device to read. I also checked my modern electric turntables just to see if they are running at the correct speeds. They were pretty close at their fixed speeds; even my old broadcast table on which I play 16 transcriptions. One additional benefit of this device is that the Numark turntable, with which I play most of my 78s, has a variable speed control but it is marked in percentage, not rpm. So it is now easy for me to find 76 rpm and 80rpm. I still think that these standard speeds are too fast for some records, particularly those made before about 1912. GrnMountianBill On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: GrnMountainBill You are 100% correct, I saw this one on amazon but I did not realize it was the same as the one on eBay. Thanks for the post. Have you used yours and how far off was your machines? On the cylinder machines I set the device on the rail and I use one record with the sticker on it. Whiteout works, I have one DD record with a crack, I marked the end of the crack with whiteout to protect my needle and it picked it up. Thanks, Steve Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 10:02:44 -0500 From: rochr...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works great on disc machines Steve: I found mine on Amazon for much less: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001N4QY66/ref=asc_df_B001N4QY661415145?smid=AFLT987H7WA7Gtag=dealtmp4800-20linkCode=asncreative=395105creativeASIN=B001N4QY66 GrnMountainBill On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: Hello Cylinder Phono owners, Are you tired of using those hard to read strobes for your cylinder player or the dreaded count the piece of paper hitting your finger? If so you can measure the RPM's with the: Wood/Metal Lathe Digital LCD Tachometer RPM Tool/Guage (how the eBay seller spelled it) Neither Dave or I are selling them but they work incredibly well. Dave told me about them and I am sharing them with you. Up until now I used my ear to time my cylinder phonos. My triumph was right on, my standard was 1.5 rpm high and my DD was low. Those of you with hundreds of machines can have hours of fun. http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40_trksid=m570_nkw=Wood%2FMetal+Lathe+Digital+LCD+Tachometer+RPM+Tool%2FGuage http://tinyurl.com/632kqad Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works great on disc machines
The interesting thing is knowing the speed of your machine without all that effort. Steve It all may be a moot point really that you have the speed dialed in to such accuracy but it is an interesting topic. Mike Oldcranky ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works great on disc machines
My Standard A, Triumph A and E do not have them. I had one home and one standard that had them but I sold them both. What is wrong with the timing marks on the carriage support rod? It is already paid for. On 02/01/2011 08:00 AM, Steven Medved wrote: Hello Cylinder Phono owners, Are you tired of using those hard to read strobes for your cylinder player or the dreaded count the piece of paper hitting your finger? If so you can measure the RPM's with the: Wood/Metal Lathe Digital LCD Tachometer RPM Tool/Guage (how the eBay seller spelled it) Neither Dave or I are selling them but they work incredibly well. Dave told me about them and I am sharing them with you. Up until now I used my ear to time my cylinder phonos. My triumph was right on, my standard was 1.5 rpm high and my DD was low. Those of you with hundreds of machines can have hours of fun. http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40_trksid=m570_nkw=Wood%2FMetal+Lathe+Digital+LCD+Tachometer+RPM+Tool%2FGuage http://tinyurl.com/632kqad Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works great on disc machines
GrnMountainBill You are 100% correct, I saw this one on amazon but I did not realize it was the same as the one on eBay. Thanks for the post. Have you used yours and how far off was your machines? On the cylinder machines I set the device on the rail and I use one record with the sticker on it. Whiteout works, I have one DD record with a crack, I marked the end of the crack with whiteout to protect my needle and it picked it up. Thanks, Steve Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 10:02:44 -0500 From: rochr...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works great on disc machines Steve: I found mine on Amazon for much less: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001N4QY66/ref=asc_df_B001N4QY661415145?smid=AFLT987H7WA7Gtag=dealtmp4800-20linkCode=asncreative=395105creativeASIN=B001N4QY66 GrnMountainBill On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: Hello Cylinder Phono owners, Are you tired of using those hard to read strobes for your cylinder player or the dreaded count the piece of paper hitting your finger? If so you can measure the RPM's with the: Wood/Metal Lathe Digital LCD Tachometer RPM Tool/Guage (how the eBay seller spelled it) Neither Dave or I are selling them but they work incredibly well. Dave told me about them and I am sharing them with you. Up until now I used my ear to time my cylinder phonos. My triumph was right on, my standard was 1.5 rpm high and my DD was low. Those of you with hundreds of machines can have hours of fun. http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40_trksid=m570_nkw=Wood%2FMetal+Lathe+Digital+LCD+Tachometer+RPM+Tool%2FGuage http://tinyurl.com/632kqad Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Brain cramp!!!!
If they are 4 minute. Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:58:26 -0800 From: nickja...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Brain cramp I should know this but I can't come up with a confident answer can one play Col/Indestructible celluloid cyls on an Amberola? Please don't laugh too long - you'll be old someday too!!! thanks, Darrell ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Brain cramp!!!!
If I had an A1 with an M. How do the Lamberts sound? The Blue Amberol 2 minute records have a lot of surface noise. Steve So you gonna play those Pink Lamberts on those Amberolas?lol. I do have a Indestructible reproducer in a box somewhere around the house.4 Min tho' Mike oldcranky ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
I think that the detailed description is one of the keys to successful selling on e-bay. I have never had the knack of doing that. = Lightfoot IA was an eBay seller with good feedback. He would take common 2 minute Edison gold molded records and sell them at $30 to $40 each. He was able to do this because of the ad, he told about the artists, the record, when it was made, the weather that day, by the time you read his ad you wanted that record. Records with low catalog numbers like 7 or 40 he pointed this out and they went high. On eBay the ad makes a big difference and with phono items you have to start the price low to get people to bid. Firebottles is a pro at what he does, I have written him several times and I have always gotten a courteous reply. I'll bet he had to sit down when he saw the final price. I do know of machines that have been bid up high and the buyer backed out. About five years ago some bozo put a standard A on eBay. This guy was not a collector or anyone we know. He was an antique dealer and the standard he was selling was so worn that it had absolutely no pinstriping at all and came with a dismal looking horn. He said this machine was mint and in all his 30 years as an antique dealer he had never seen one better and it sold for $750.00 to someone who had probably never seen a standard before. I have purchased a blank weight C on eBay for $80, it had no ad and the photos were poor, I bid the starting offer and was amazed I won. With a good ad and photos it would have gone for over $200 at the time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
This phonograph was rarely used, and the evidence of that is borne out in aspect of its appearance, regardless of the angle from which it is viewed. You can normally tell how much a phonograph has been played by the brass gears. Herman found a Triumph E and the small brass gears had no wear, the rest of the machine looked it, on my A the gears are badly worn, and the rest of the machine looks it. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
I think I have only seen one on eBay. now the book by frow and al shows a g anyone seen a g ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] The Orlando Show
The Florida show was even better than last year, it was laid out very nicely. The dealers I spoke with told me they did better this year than last. I did not get to talk with Joan this year, she was busy each time I went by but I did enjoy seeing her and Rob as I walked by. Bob Cole did a wonderful job of setting up the show and Harry Ruer stopped by. His wife passed away last month, that was very sad. If you go to the show stop at the Bob Cole corner first and work you way around. Charlie Hummel was there, it is amazing all he fits in a suitcase, this alone is worth the price of admission. I got the history of horn making from Don Gfell and got to see his nice displays. Ron Haring did well, it is always nice to visit his table. Ron Sitko normally visits the show, his knowledge is impressive and he is very nice to deal with as well. Bob Foster was walking around with his cygnet horn springs and Tim Fabrizio and Rob Mallet were there along with Steve Andersen. He always has impressive machines, this time it was a spring motor that really was attic fresh. Paul Baker was there, I always enjoy talking with him. He made those wonderful reproducers, I could not be more thrilled if I was asking Edison how he made his reproducers. Richard Brown and his wife, what nice people, their daughter was taking tickets at the door. You will not meet a nicer group of people. Joe Filer and Marty were there. I purchased some Exhibition flanges from Mike Arcuri, at 3 for $15 they were a great deal and well made. Mike, if you read this I am sending my old flanges to you. This year I actually remembered my pad and pen, but I enjoyed talking with the dealers so much I forgot to write anything down. This really is a wonderful show, it may not be the largest but it certainly has the nicest people. Next year I will have my wife write things down. I got to meet VTLA Mark in person. Richard's wife let me listen to the Amberola V they were selling. I found a nice early model B reproducer and an early 2 minute wax amberol wax in an almost mint Edison Standard Record box, the gold still has the sparkles. I want to thank Harry, Bob, and Richard for making the show what is is today. Equal thanks goes to all the wonderful dealers. This would not be a good evaluation without mentioning Jack Whelan - his videos are so professionally made you would think he spent thousands on a crew, but no he does it by himself. How he does it no one knows, I hope he made one this year. Phono people are the best, what could be nicer than Florida in the winter? Visiting the Orlando show and having both. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] MG
Mike, Your T and your TAE phonos both have cranks, don't they? Steve Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 21:09:58 -0800 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MG I agree Rich. It is clearly marked and it is just friends talking. The mod is very hands off. That is what makes this list so nice. BTW, they'll still walk by your sports car to see my T, lol. Mike oldcranky On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 7:51 PM, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote: It hurts nothing as it is clearly marked as to subject. Some people need to lighten up a bit. On 01/23/2011 09:45 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote: sorry. It really should have been taken off-list. At least there are lots of car-related records although I don't know of any that mention British sports cars. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of tuban...@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:04 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MG OK boys, I'm outa here. If you can't keep the rant kinda phono related I don't need to wade thru all the CAR talk. They do have forums for that. Don ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] PayPal shipping
Not if it has electronic or online postage, I do it all the time. Next time read the restriction note. I mail on a regular basis, I work at the airport so the airport post office is very convenient. Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:16:59 -0800 From: back...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] PayPal shipping but one is supposed to present the package TO a clerk if it weighs 13 ounces or more. (security). allen -- I believe that the sign says no STAMPED items can be more than 13. I take this to mean that if you have PRINTED your postage, you can deposit the item in their hopper. Printing out the postage would give the PO a way the identify you.Hence, the self-serve hoppers at the PO have large openings to take packages surely weighing more than 13 ounces. ;-) Dennis ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Theodore Roosevelt cylinder
Both. Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 11:27:35 -0800 From: john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Theodore Roosevelt cylinder Hello all Well, after I had offered it here with no takers, I had listed my Theodore Roosevelt cylinder on eBay, It used to be that they went for around $100, and it only got up to $66. What's your opinion, is this cylinder (Social and Industrial Justice) just that common, or is it the economy, or what? Just wondering. I can seem to let it go for less than $85 so I think I'll keep it. John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] PayPal shipping
PayPal is good for first class and media, USPS.com is good for priority. Thanks for you comment, I did not know that. Steve Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 19:48:31 -0800 From: back...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] PayPal shipping One other thing to consider is that PayPal shipping's maximum for insurance is $500. To get around standing in line, I use the USPS.com site then, and can select insurance for up to $5,000 in value. Dennis ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] PayPal shipping
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_ship-now Did you know you can ship things via PayPal? I just finished rebuilding a reproducer and I was able to purchase the postage for the same price as the guy who sent it to me plus an extra 19 cents for the delivery confirmation, it is well worth it for me to be able just to drop it in the box and avoid the lines, especially when the PO is closed when I drive by at 6:20 am. You can send first class, media mail and priority. You get a discount with priority mail with the USPS: https://ecap-ws-prod.usps.com/entreg/loginView.do I purchased a Royal scale that goes up to 5 pounds and it is very convenient. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Potential Fraud - Beware (?)
Before eBay hid the buyers ID I bid on an Alva to see the final price and get photos. A man wrote and told me he had a number of Alvas in stock and would be happy to sell me one for $1500. Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:20:25 -0800 From: hexaph...@sbcglobal.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Potential Fraud - Beware (?) I suspect the motor doesn't exist, thus I'd never get it. He keeps avoiding my request for a picture to validate whether it is a correct one. It seems there are scammers scouring the various boards on the net including phonograph forums. I prefer to keep to those I am familar with. Ron --- On Fri, 1/14/11, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Potential Fraud - Beware (?) To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 1:49 PM Did you ever get the motor? Is it different from the usual spring motors for Victors of that period? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of hexaph...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 1:56 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Potential Fraud - Beware (?) Hi all. On one of the phonograph forums I had a Wanted notice indicating I was looking for a Victrola Orthophonic 8-9 motor. I received a response from a Brian Kidd. His email is bra...@blumail.org . This one has all the red flags waving. He keeps spelling his own name incorrectly for one. He is located in Italy and wants a money gram or western union payment and his pricing is way out of line i.e. not even reasonable. He wanted 690 euro or more than $900 for a motor of which, of course, he had in stock. Playing along, I asked for pictures. None have been provided (surprise). Anyone else familar with this individual? I would assume he is responding to other people looking for items. Just for a final amusement, I sent him an email stating I would most certainly send a western union for the full amount once I received the product. I am waiting for my reply. Beware. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Victor on Ebay
When I receive an answer to my question from an eBay seller and I click on the link is says removed so I believe eBay has a problem with links. Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 20:37:22 -0800 From: john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor on Ebay Strange. When I click on the link, I get an ebay message that says the item was removed. It certainly looks correct in all respects but the speed control and crank location. The screws on the crank escutcheon look new too. The Victor Data book indicates that the cabinet is all correct though. The slip in elbow is a late feature. John Robles --- On Thu, 12/23/10, Dennis Back back...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Dennis Back back...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor on Ebay To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 8:27 PM The item has been removed so I sense the seller was found out... No, it's there. Here is the item number: 180604116113 Dennis ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] “ National Phonograph” medallion c ranks
Does anyone have any idea when( i.e.- what serial number range or date) Edison stopped putting the “ National Phonograph” medallion cranks on the suitcase Homes and began using the plain cranks ? I would be interested in knowing what year they stopped making them for the other phonographs as well. Thanks, Stev ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Seller's Name was/ Frankenreproducer alert
Was this the person who called himself Auntie Dodo? Whoa. If it's who I'm thinking it is, he's been around for a while - I remember him from the Phonatics AOL list days (way back in the mid-90's). I don't remember his name either, but as I recall, he would use his mother's address on the return labels. He was doing some pretty odd stuff and got booted from the list for it. Regards, Loran On Dec 4, 2010, at 2:46 PM, hexaph...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Hi all! I'll be be honest and say I have dealt with this individual in the past. I guess I'll provide a contrarian view to those experiences posted thus far. I purchased an Edison machine from him and it was packed relatively well. It could have been better, but all was safe. The machine was exactly as stated, but came with some extra mounting screws and springs to mount the motor to the motor board, so I'm sure someone got screwed (pun intended). I must agree that he was somehat a rude individual, but not so much that it really bothered me as he shipped very fast and everything was actually great! I just thought I'd provide another view of just my experience. I would not necessaril recommend him, but my transcation ended well thankfully after reading these posts. I do not recall his name, but I looked his phone number up and found the following information for those who wish to dig deeper. Antique Edison (412) 257-8926 301 Murray Ave Bridgeville, PA 15017 antiquedi...@aol.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Seller's Name was/ Frankenreproducer alert
If you look at his ratings they are actually quite good. Hi all! I'll be be honest and say I have dealt with this individual in the past. I guess I'll provide a contrarian view to those experiences posted thus far. I purchased an Edison machine from him and it was packed relatively well. It could have been better, but all was safe. The machine was exactly as stated, but came with some extra mounting screws and springs to mount the motor to the motor board, so I'm sure someone got screwed (pun intended). I must agree that he was somehat a rude individual, but not so much that it really bothered me as he shipped very fast and everything was actually great! I just thought I'd provide another view of just my experience. I would not necessaril recommend him, but my transcation ended well thankfully after reading these posts. I do not recall his name, but I looked his phone number up and found the following information for those who wish to dig deeper. Antique Edison (412) 257-8926 301 Murray Ave Bridgeville, PA 15017 antiquedi...@aol.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Seller's Name was/ Frankenreproducer alert
Thanks, I did not know that. From: a...@popyrus.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 14:46:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Seller's Name was/ Frankenreproducer alert Hi Steve ~ The way eBay works, you can't leave a negative feedback AND get reimbursed on a bad purchase by eBay's Buyer Protection. The unsatisfactory transaction is technically cancelled as though it never happened to begin with. Even the posting below acknowledges (despite the positives) that the item could have been packed better, had additional (incorrectly mounted?) hardware, and he agrees that the seller was rude. And yet, he probably left a positive feedback. I think there must be dozens, if not hundreds of dissatisfied buyers who would rather be made whole again financially on their misrepresented/badly packed/damaged/modified or incomplete purchase, than take a loss and retain the ability to leave negative feedback on this seller, and thus warn others away from a potentially miserable experience. I'm ordinarily very careful about saying anything publicly about anyone that isn't positive (if you can't say something nice...), but based on personal experience, both my own and that of my friend and customer, I can only conclude that this seller is dangerous. He certainly doesn't appear to make any effort to play by the same rules. That's my take on it. Andy On Dec 6, 2010, at 12:32 PM, Steven Medved wrote: If you look at his ratings they are actually quite good. Hi all! I'll be be honest and say I have dealt with this individual in the past. I guess I'll provide a contrarian view to those experiences posted thus far. I purchased an Edison machine from him and it was packed relatively well. It could have been better, but all was safe. The machine was exactly as stated, but came with some extra mounting screws and springs to mount the motor to the motor board, so I'm sure someone got screwed (pun intended). I must agree that he was somehat a rude individual, but not so much that it really bothered me as he shipped very fast and everything was actually great! I just thought I'd provide another view of just my experience. I would not necessaril recommend him, but my transcation ended well thankfully after reading these posts. I do not recall his name, but I looked his phone number up and found the following information for those who wish to dig deeper. Antique Edison (412) 257-8926 301 Murray Ave Bridgeville, PA 15017 antiquedi...@aol.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Frankenreproducer alert
Wasn't this the person who had the Triumph A that appeared in numerous 'original' configurations? This reproducer has a C stylus and bar and a reproduction hinge block. Many D reproducers have C stylus and bars, perhaps because they were used to play the regular cylinders after the Concert record production declined. It appears the solid weight may be correct for this one as the hole weights appeared around 73000 on the C, and D 58967 has a solid weight. It is interesting to note in 1910 solid weights appeared on the C. Al, please correct me if I am wrong, I believe if you play a concert cylinder with a C stylus you will remove more material for two reasons. First the ball stylus has more contact area, secondly the C stylus is shaped differently and has less contact area. There are two types of D bars, the first, early type is thick where the screw goes through it holding it in the shoulders, the rest is thin. These have the early crude ball stylus. The thin part is of the bar is .0233 and the thick part is .0564, the C bars I have measured are in the .0566 to .0573 range. This reproducer should have the early bar. The later D bar is of uniform thickness and these have the stylus that the model B and later automatics have. This stylus is the same diameter and it is the contact area that is polished and about the bottom third. The unpolished area on these are a lot smoother than the early ones. These are much more uniform in length than the early ones which vary so you have short and long ones. The C and H styli are mostly of uniform length, but you will find longer and shorter ones. Edison styli are held in by shellac, I have some C styli that are supposed to be NOS, they are coated with a brown material I believe is shellac, that way you would only have to put them in the bar and apply heat. The early ball stylus is found on the standard speaker and the earlier automatics. The sapphire rod actually has a partial ball polished on the end. The rest of the stylus is not polished and looks heavily frosted. It almost looks like a bowling pin except the bottom part is not that much larger than the top, but the top polished part of the stylus is smaller in diameter. The stylus bar on the automatic is around .0211 thick, the model B bars are thicker, around .0225 and the pot metal weight ones are even thicker at around .0245. Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: clockworkh...@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 20:12:25 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Frankenreproducer alert One of my least favorite sellers with an honesty and knowledge score I believe to be ZERO has put up a Model D Reproducer on eBay. Check out 170574734251 The reproducer is a collection of damaged parts as far as I can tell. Why would someone file down a brass body? The stylus bar looks like a C bar and not a D ball type desired to gently play brown wax Concert records. The listing description says it all. Best wishes to all, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Think streaming internet music is new? Check out this phonograph service from 1910...
I thought Mike was old cranky. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 10:35:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Think streaming internet music is new? Check out this phonograph service from 1910... Hi Loran, Sorry about the link not working correctly. I am aware that you are the list owner... you were just sounding Old and Cranky. By the way, I put a link to your website on our Facebook page. This page is not a spamming tool nor a competing replacement for your list, it is meant to be a resource for anyone who shares an interest in our hobby. I think it's important to promote an interest in the history of recorded music to the newer generations that think it all started with an iPod. I chose Facebook particularly, since there are over half a billion Facebook subscribers, which presents an enormous potential to generate new interest in phonographs, music, etc. Without generating new interest, our hobby becomes an elitist, good ole boy network that will go away when we do... You can only sell your stuff so many times among the same group of existing collectors and there definitely comes a time for all of us to part with the stuff we are temporarily borrowing while we are passing through this life. Curt Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 07:17:57 -0800 From: lo...@oldcrank.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Think streaming internet music is new? Check out this phonograph service from 1910... 1. Please check out the link as it came through in the archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/phono-l@oldcrank.org/msg10459.html 2. I'm well aware of the awesomeness of the DELETE key. I'm willing to wager that my delete key is bigger than yours, as I am the list owner. Thanks, Loran On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 5:30 AM, Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com wrote: It's not spam, Loran... I thought readers other than yourself, might be interested in a PHONOGRAPH RELATED very interesting article about a unique phonograph service. It just happens to be posted on the Carolina Antique Music Phonograph Society Facebook page. If you don't want to read it or look at it you have a DELETE key on your computer. From: lo...@oldcrank.com Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 21:08:52 -0800 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Think streaming internet music is new? Check out this phonograph service from 1910... Please refrain from posting Facebook spam here. Thanks, Loran ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Grafonola reproducer
I used a wire brush handle to make a spanner for the Edison compression rings. Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 04:02:21 -0800 From: dda...@sbcglobal.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Grafonola reproducer Make a spanner wrench out of a length of wood and two pins placed at the right spacing. A couple of small nails should do it. Dave --- On Wed, 11/17/10, harvey kravitz harveykrav...@yahoo.com wrote: From: harvey kravitz harveykrav...@yahoo.com Subject: [Phono-L] Grafonola reproducer To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 11:19 PM I just picked up a really nice Grafonola 100 in Oak. The reproducer needs to be rebuilt. It has the large ring with 4 small holes in it. Is there a tool or a technique to remove this ring to rebuild it? Any help is greatly appreciated. Harvey Kravitz ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] contact info requested
burdettewalt...@yahoo.com webmas...@misteropera.com http://teen-boy-preview.com/index.html From: maff...@bresnan.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:20:30 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] contact info requested All: I received the following earlier this year to an inquiry: Burdette Walters makes the reproduction boxes and lids for Blue Amberol (orange boxes). I would appreciate the E-mail contact address to inquire about cost and availability. If no E-mail info, any other type would work. Again, thanks in advance Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] contact info requested
http://teen-boy-preview.com/html/phonographs.html Hello John, This is actually the address to the Mr Opera phonograph website. Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: john9...@pacbell.net Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 23:35:59 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] contact info requested Teenboy-preview.com?? Did you get your email hijacked? John --Original Message-- From: Steven Medved Sender: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org To: Phono-l ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] contact info requested Sent: Nov 18, 2010 3:29 PM burdettewalt...@yahoo.com webmas...@misteropera.com http://teen-boy-preview.com/index.html From: maff...@bresnan.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:20:30 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] contact info requested All: I received the following earlier this year to an inquiry: Burdette Walters makes the reproduction boxes and lids for Blue Amberol (orange boxes). I would appreciate the E-mail contact address to inquire about cost and availability. If no E-mail info, any other type would work. Again, thanks in advance Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] contact info requested
The first one is the main page for his site, the second one tells about how he became interested in phonographs. To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: john9...@pacbell.net Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 23:59:45 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] contact info requested Ok. The phonographs.html didn't appear in the first email and I was worried... Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com Sender: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:46:36 To: Phono-lphono-l@oldcrank.org Reply-To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] contact info requested http://teen-boy-preview.com/html/phonographs.html Hello John, This is actually the address to the Mr Opera phonograph website. Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: john9...@pacbell.net Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 23:35:59 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] contact info requested Teenboy-preview.com?? Did you get your email hijacked? John --Original Message-- From: Steven Medved Sender: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org To: Phono-l ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] contact info requested Sent: Nov 18, 2010 3:29 PM burdettewalt...@yahoo.com webmas...@misteropera.com http://teen-boy-preview.com/index.html From: maff...@bresnan.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 21:20:30 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] contact info requested All: I received the following earlier this year to an inquiry: Burdette Walters makes the reproduction boxes and lids for Blue Amberol (orange boxes). I would appreciate the E-mail contact address to inquire about cost and availability. If no E-mail info, any other type would work. Again, thanks in advance Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Original or restored?
Ron said it very well. I would favor a mint machine over a restored one but I would not discriminate over a restored machine as that is the only way most people can own a mint looking machine. I would also love to have a 1795 silver dollar in uncirculated condition, but I had to settle for one with a hole that was filled in that was in average condition. I recently got a gold Exhibition in the deluxe hinged box, the mildew smell was horrible. I sprayed the inside with Lysol and I will have to treat it once more to get rid of the smell. Some people would likely be upset I got rid of the original mildew, but if you cannot enjoy what you have why collect? I cringe when someone cleans $20,000 of the value of an Idelia by polishing the copper oxidation off, but some people cringe when you restore an all brass horn to original look. Most people would prefer mint machines, but the reality is if you want to enjoy a machine that looks perfect it will most likely be restored. The only two machines that I have that are excellent is my VV-IV and my VV-VI that came in an aftermarked console which protected it. My Triumph E is one I had restored. Someone varnished over the whole thing and ruined the case, made the pin striping run, and the machine was in excellent shape until someone ruined it. I had the bedplate refinished, now it looks better than new. I enjoy the machine because it looks so nice, when I want to play records I go to my crappy looking A in a B case Triumph. I have seen people with machines that look new, unfortunately there are not enought to go around. One year a radio collector brought a Triumph A with a wooden horn and an iron and brass O to show it to people. The finish was so alligatored it acutally felt like the reptile when you touched it. The O was rusty and when I told the guy it would restore nicely he was horrified and told me he did not buy it to listen to or restore, he liked to keep things just as he found them. Steve I agree with Steve. It depends on condition and the machine itself. It can be subjective and dependent on the collector or individual as well. Do you want a common but pristine original Vic -IV, for example, or would you rather have a refurbished and refinished Edison Opera brought back to showroom beauty? Also rarity might be a consideration. Would someone wait for a near original Edison Idealia or take one that was redone? It depends...cost, rarity, the collector themselves are only a few of the considerations. I think most of us would take the rarest machine in the most original condition at the lowest cost (speaking in general terms). Cost, especially in todays economy may be a key determiner in the utlimate decision made. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Original or restored?
Depends on the condition. From: tom...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:06:17 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Original or restored? I have always believed in keeping my phonographs in as close to original condition as is possible. Fixing them, but not stripping and restoring them. I'm just curious... Is that the norm with most collectors on this group or do you like to restore them to look like new? Tom ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] [OFF-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring
French Canadian would be my guess. I Wrote an ebay seller once that was a French Canadian and the English was the same. The Frenchmen I have written to had excellent English. From: kathal...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 20:44:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring From the wording, it looks like someone in Nigeria has hacked his email. From the Desk of Kat Hall Executive Assistant to Ms. Smith (Publisher) Review Coordinator Author Liaison www.champagnebooks.com www.carnalpassions.com www.thewritersvineyard.com -Original Message- From: Jean-Charles Leblanc Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 8:39 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring i told you people whaht i had to tell you ,now dont get smart,what is my bunesse is not yours,and be calm AND I DONT WHANT ANY OF YOUR PRODUCT. To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: john9...@pacbell.net Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 00:01:54 + Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring Jean-Charles- Who are you trying to communicate with??? If you have a problem with a seller on this board you need to take it up with them privately and off the public list. John Robles Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jean-Charles Leblanc jeancharle...@hotmail.com Sender: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 18:42:23 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Reply-To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring hello,i made up my mind now that evry it clear,i guest i wont buy any of your products,PS.dont send me any of dose gramophones i whont accept any of them so every that is clear for you,forget about evrey thing once again i dont whant to order any of your product. From: ander...@tampabay.rr.com Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 14:07:27 -0500 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring Folks, Again, This is what is required to make it work and what was originally supplied with the early style Edison Cygnet horn cranes. You dont need the spring as long as you have the older style crane. http://cgi.ebay.com/HORN-CONNECTOR-EDISON-COLUMBIA-CYLINDER-PHONOGRAPH-/320611493258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4aa5ef258a Steve On Nov 9, 2010, at 12:57 PM, john9...@pacbell.net wrote: WTF is that all about??? John Robles Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jean-Charles Leblanc jeancharle...@hotmail.com Sender: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:51:17 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Reply-To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring what do tou mein by no spring,that not new product,your suppose to sell it complete,and what is the price you never told me your price i am having trouble to get the price out of you people PS.and dose gramophomes is not miniature,and before shipping any thing i whant to be clear about everyting the price the shipping price and the description of any items is that clear,your shipping nothing before my autorisation is that clear. From: steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 22:14:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring People I know have one and it lifts up the reproducer one the one end of the record, on the other is it way too heavy on a fireside. My idea is to convert it to the new style. Thanks for the reply, I never gave this any thought until they had the problem. Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 19:11:36 -0800 From: john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring I would not think that they would track well, without the 'give' of the spring. The rigid bolt connection seems as if it would be very stiff. For those who are unfamiliar with this early horn, I have posted a picture of the horn and crane and the suspension bolt at this link: http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/john9ten/Early%20Cygnet%20Horn/ John Robles --- On Mon, 11/8/10, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com Subject: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com, Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 6:08 PM Hello, Does anyone have an early cygnet horn without the spring? How do these work without the coil spring? I have seen them but it does not look like a workable system to me. Steve
[Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring
From: gbogan...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 22:30:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring I have an early 10 panel cygnet horn and springless crane on an Edison Fireside. As you surmise, the system doesn't work very well as the force placed on the carriage by the horn varies with the position of the carriage. It happens to work on my particular example because the rubber coupling from my reproducer to the horn is old and somewhat loose. This allows the rubber coupler to move vertically a bit as the carriage moves which results in a more uniform carriage pressure. But this original setup was not satisfactory, I'm sure, and that's why the later versions use the spring to suspend the horn from the crane. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 9:08 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring Hello, Does anyone have an early cygnet horn without the spring? How do these work without the coil spring? I have seen them but it does not look like a workable system to me. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring
From: gbogan...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 22:30:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring I have an early 10 panel cygnet horn and springless crane on an Edison Fireside. As you surmise, the system doesn't work very well as the force placed on the carriage by the horn varies with the position of the carriage. It happens to work on my particular example because the rubber coupling from my reproducer to the horn is old and somewhat loose. This allows the rubber coupler to move vertically a bit as the carriage moves which results in a more uniform carriage pressure. But this original setup was not satisfactory, I'm sure, and that's why the later versions use the spring to suspend the horn from the crane. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 9:08 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring Hello, Does anyone have an early cygnet horn without the spring? How do these work without the coil spring? I have seen them but it does not look like a workable system to me. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring
Thanks to all for the wonderful help and information. Steve From: gbogan...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 22:30:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring I have an early 10 panel cygnet horn and springless crane on an Edison Fireside. As you surmise, the system doesn't work very well as the force placed on the carriage by the horn varies with the position of the carriage. It happens to work on my particular example because the rubber coupling from my reproducer to the horn is old and somewhat loose. This allows the rubber coupler to move vertically a bit as the carriage moves which results in a more uniform carriage pressure. But this original setup was not satisfactory, I'm sure, and that's why the later versions use the spring to suspend the horn from the crane. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 9:08 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring Hello, Does anyone have an early cygnet horn without the spring? How do these work without the coil spring? I have seen them but it does not look like a workable system to me. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
