RE: Mandy B
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Don Yates wrote: And it looks like I was right: "Ever True Evermore" was recorded by Patti Page (as was "With My Eyes Wide Open I'm Dreaming"), and "Mistakes" was recorded by Vera Lynn. !--don Friggin' hell! Not *the* Vera Lynn? Sweetheart of the Forces in WWII? Her of whom Ken Dodd once observed that he knew there was going to be war in the Falklands when he walked past her house and heard her practising her scales? Her who is heard singing "We'll meet again" over the closing credits of 'Doctor Strangelove'? Dear me, life's just getting too weird these days. -- Iain Noble Hound Dog Research, Survey and Social Research Consultancy, 28A Collegiate Crescent Sheffield S10 2BA UK Phone/fax: (+44) (0)114 267 1394 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
RE: Mandy B
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Don Yates wrote:
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Jon Weisberger wrote:
The definite oldies are "I've Got A Right To Cry" (Hank Jr.), "Give
Myself A Party" (Don Gibson), "Trademark" (Carl Smith), "Falling,
Falling, Falling" (Ray Price). I assume that the Newbury and Bryants
tunes are not new, but I dunno who the original performers would be.
The Newbury tune was a minor hit for Gibson. The original version's
pretty swell, but Mandy tops it. "I'm Gonna Change Everything" is an old
Jim Reeves song. "Who (Who Will It Be)" and "The Whispering Wind (Blows
On By)" are both new ones written by the same songwriters (L. Russell
Brown and Pat McLaughlin). *Someone* here has to know who did the
Boudleaux and Felice song ("Don't Forget To Cry"). Margasak sez "With My
Eyes Wide Open I'm Dreaming" is an old pop tune, so we'll take his word
for it. That leaves "Mistakes" (Edgar Leslie/Horatio Nicholls) and "Ever
True Evermore" (Kermit Goell/Theodore Rhodes). If I was to stereotype
songwriter names, I'd suggest they were both written by old-school pop
songwriters.--don
And it looks like I was right: "Ever True Evermore" was recorded by Patti
Page (as was "With My Eyes Wide Open I'm Dreaming"), and "Mistakes" was
recorded by Vera Lynn. That means we've managed to figure out the sources
for all of her obscure covers, 'cept for that damn Boudleaux and Felice
tune. I thought it might be easy to track that one down, but then I took
a look in the BMI on-line database at all the songs written by the Bryants
-- good god! I knew the Bryants were pretty damn prolific, but they were
songwriting machines!--don
RE: Mandy B/Don't Forget
OK folks. This turns out to be too easy!
"Don't Forget to Cry" was a May '64 single recorded for WB by those
obscure singers of Bryants' songs, the Everly Brothers. It's readily
available on the 2-disc Walk Right Back Warner Brothers Best of... Glad to
be of assistance.
Barry M.
*Someone* here has to know who did the Boudleaux and Felice song
("Don't Forget To Cry"). ... That means we've managed to figure out the
sourcesfor all of her obscure covers, 'cept for that damn Boudleaux and
Felice tune. I thought it might be easy to track that one down, but then
I took
a look in the BMI on-line database at all the songs written by the Bryants
-- good god! I knew the Bryants were pretty damn prolific, but they were
songwriting machines!--don
Re: Mandy B/Don't Forget
OK folks. This turns out to be too easy! "Don't Forget to Cry" was a May '64 single recorded for WB by those obscure singers of Bryants' songs, the Everly Brothers. It's readily available on the 2-disc Walk Right Back Warner Brothers Best of... Glad to be of assistance. Barry M. Geez, you all didn't know that? That's common knowledge. OK, I'm jerking your chains, but I was curious about that tune, "Trademark," again on the Mandy Barnett record. Jon identified it with some country artist, I can't recall who, but the co-writer is listed as Porter Wagoner (sp?). Did Porter write it, and someone else make a hit out of it? Also, I can't get over how, to me, two of the best tunes on the record, "Who (Who Will It Be)" and "The Whispering Wind (Blows on By)" are relatively new songs, apparently, but seem to come straight from the lush, big-band pop past. Does anyone have a handle on the writers, Russell Brown and Pat McLaughlin? Great songs, and the only defect is that tendency to put bothersome parentheticals in the song titles. -- Terry Smith
RE: Mandy B/Don't Forget
...I was curious about that tune, "Trademark," again on the Mandy Barnett record. Jon identified it with some country artist, I can't recall who, but the co-writer is listed as Porter Wagoner (sp?). Did Porter write it, and someone else make a hit out of it? Yup. "Trademark" was a #2 for Carl Smith in 1953, more than a year before Porter hit the Top 10 his own self (with "Company's Comin'"). If Porter recorded it himself, it didn't make the Top 40. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
Re: Mandy B
I had to stop the other day to find out what song was playing on a local station cos it sounded almost "alt.country." Turned out to be the latest Dixie Chicks single. Anyone else heard that one? Jim, smilin' Tonight the Heartache's on Me, cut by numerous artists in the last few years including Joy Lynn White on her last. Mike Hays http://www.TwangCast.com TM RealCountry 24 X 7 Please Visit Then let us know what you think! Mike Hays www.MikeHays.RealCountry.net For the best country artist web hosting, www.RealCountry.net
Re: Mandy B
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: pps it's been a great week; discovered via the library, Solomon Burke and Lloyd Price. How'd I ripen into my 40s without having heard these guys? Mysteries of life. Yeah, right -- it's 'cuz you live in that cultural backwater known as the American Midwest.--don (who coincidentally played Solomon Burke on the Roadhouse last night)
RE: Mandy B
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to add that I hope Mike is right with his observation that some country stations are leaning towards actually playing country music again. I had to stop the other day to find out what song was playing on a local station cos it sounded almost "alt.country." Turned out to be the latest Dixie Chicks single. Anyone else heard that one? I haven't heard it yet, but I love Joy Lynn's version of it. And there ain't nothin' "alt" about it -- unless the Dixie Chicks rocked it up a bit. Oh, wait -- that's what HNC folks are s'posed to do. Now I'm all confused.--don
RE: Mandy B
I want to add that I hope Mike is right with his observation that some country stations are leaning towards actually playing country music again. I had to stop the other day to find out what song was playing on a local station cos it sounded almost "alt.country." Turned out to be the latest Dixie Chicks single. Anyone else heard that one? I haven't heard it yet, but I love Joy Lynn's version of it. And there ain't nothin' "alt" about it -- unless the Dixie Chicks rocked it up a bit. I've heard it. It's a good, straight country shuffle; "nothing 'alt' about it" is right - you can hear a dozen or two like it any Saturday night on the Grand Ole Opry, and that's not a criticism. It will be interesting to see how it fares on the charts. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
Clip: Mandy B, Charles Kim
Another twangy Margasak column. http://www.chireader.com/hitsville/990423.html Pop Goes the Country Mandy Barnett grew up in Cumberland County, Tennessee, and by age ten was singing her summers away at Dollywood. She entertained at political rallies for both Lamar Alexander and Al Gore, hit the Grand Ole Opry stage at the ripe old age of 12, and at 13 signed a development deal with Nashville big cheese Jimmy Bowen, then at Universal. But instead of getting sucked through and spat out of the machine like some southern Celine Dion, Barnett discovered that she didn't much care for country music--at least not the kind that was coming out of Nashville in the 90s. Last week Barnett released her second album, I've Got a Right to Cry (Sire), a collection that brazenly borrows the "Nashville Sound" of the 60s. Ironically, it's that poppy, orchestral sound--lush strings, tinkling piano, soft guitar picking, woozy steel washes, supersweet backup singing, and lead vocals that owe as much to Broadway as the Opry--that's indirectly responsible for the bland Stetson rock that passes for the sound of Nashville today. For better (the Mavericks) or worse (Shania Twain), it broadened country's palette to include pop and vice-versa. The Nashville Sound, sometimes called "countrypolitan," was developed in the late 50s and early 60s by a handful of producers, including Chet Atkins, who worked with Jim Reeves, Skeeter Davis, and Don Gibson, and Owen Bradley, who made stars of Brenda Lee, Loretta Lynn, and Patsy Cline. In fact, though the press materials that accompanied my copy of the album take pains not to mention it, Barnett spent three nights a week through most of 1994 and '95 playing Cline in the hit musical "Always...Patsy Cline" at Nashville's Ryman Auditorium, and at times on I've Got a Right to Cry, she still sounds an awful lot like her. Owen Bradley met Barnett while she was in the show, and eventually came out of retirement to produce four tracks on her new album. After he died last January, at 82, his brother, guitarist Harold Bradley, and Harold's son Bobby finished the job. Barnett's first album was made for Asylum in 1996 with producer Bill Schnee, who had worked with Natalie Cole, Barbra Streisand, and Whitney Houston, and it was an obvious attempt to capitalize on her stage success without offending country radio's sensibilities. Barnett excelled on the tunes with more complex melodies, such as "Planet of Love" and "Maybe" by Jim Lauderdale, but on the sappy ballad "A Simple I Love You" she sounded woefully at odds with the material. Despite three charting singles and plenty of critical acclaim, the album stiffed, and she parted ways with the label. She was the first artist signed to Sire after founder Seymour Stein relaunched the label as a separate entity from Elektra in 1997. "I'm willing to stake my reputation on Mandy," he told the LA Times. While she tackles a few honky-tonk numbers on I've Got a Right to Cry--including the Carl Smith classic "Trademark"--mostly she sticks with material that can clearly be classified as pop. Not for nothing have the songs on her album been covered in the past by singers like Patti Page, Perry Como, Tom Jones, and Engelbert Humperdinck. Page scored a number 11 pop hit in 1950 with her big-band rendition of "With My Eyes Wide Open I'm Dreaming," a slice of tepid postwar romantic hokum with all the rhythmic sophistication of a windshield wiper. Barnett's version is instrumentally leaner--even with overripe backing vocals--and with her cool croon and subtle southern drawl, she stretches out the pretty melody with sharper accents, increased range and rhythmic lilt, and all around greater emotional nuance than Page. I'd go so far as to call Barnett's record one of the best pop albums so far this year--but I'm hedging my bets on whether it'll sell like one. Unlike Owen Bradley's last production job, K.D. Lang's 1988 album, Shadowland, it's completely irony-free, which means it's wildly out of step not just with mainstream Nashville but also the alternative country scene. Sire seems to be trying to pique the interest of country radio by building Barnett a pop following--a strategy that worked for Dwight Yoakam and BR5-49. The label sent the album's first single only to Americana and "nonreporting" country stations, and Barnett was on Letterman last week; too bad most of the songs are too slow to propel a Gap commercial. Postscripts Pinetop Seven guitarist Charles Kim has written themes and incidental music for the Theater Oobleck production Pinochet: A Carnival; it's performed live by a sax quartet that sometimes includes him. The play runs Thursdays through Saturdays until May 15 at the Holy Covenant United Methodist Church, 925 W. Diversey; call 773-743-6652 or see the theater listings in Section Two for more information. The rarely seen Pinetop Seven will play Metro on June 3, toward the end of a two-and-a-half-week tour with Calexico. In early March
Re: Mandy B
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: pps it's been a great week; discovered via the library, Solomon Burke and Lloyd Price. How'd I ripen into my 40s without having heard these guys? Mysteries of life. Then Don: Yeah, right -- it's 'cuz you live in that cultural backwater known as the American Midwest.--don (who coincidentally played Solomon Burke on the Roadhouse last night) Don't mean to quibble, but I don't live in the Midwest. Southeastern Ohio, where Athens is located, is about as Appalachian as you can get, both culturally and geographically (there's about one cubic foot of flat space in our whole county). We're un-glaciated, and proud of it! -- Terry Smith ps man, we're getting a lot of mileage out of this "Mandy B." thread, aren't we? But I did want to ask, seriously, which tunes on her new record are the classics and which are the newly written ones. As other folks have mentioned, Owen Bradley, who apparently had a lot to do with the song selection, couldn't have done a better job, and the old ones blend with the new ones seamlessly. I've got to say, though, I like "Who (who will it be)" the best. Is that an old tune?
RE: Mandy B
I've got to say, though, I like "Who (who will it be)" the best. Is that an old tune? With a co-publisher named "Twenty Second Century Music," I doubt it g. The definite oldies are "I've Got A Right To Cry" (Hank Jr.), "Give Myself A Party" (Don Gibson), "Trademark" (Carl Smith), "Falling, Falling, Falling" (Ray Price). I assume that the Newbury and Bryants tunes are not new, but I dunno who the original performers would be. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
Re: Mandy B
In a message dated 4/22/99 12:57:37 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But I did want to ask, seriously, which tunes on her new record are the classics and which are the newly written ones...I've got to say, though, I like "Who (who will it be)" the best. Is that an old tune? "Who" and "The Whispering Wind," both cowritten by l. russell brown (of "tie a yellow ribbon" fame) and pat mclaughlin, are the only two new ones on barnett's album. bill f-w
Re: Mandy B
In a message dated 4/22/99 1:18:02 PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Who" and "The Whispering Wind," both cowritten by l. russell brown (of "tie a yellow ribbon" fame) and pat mclaughlin, are the only two new ones on barnett's album. "Whispering Wind" is killing me, currently the greatest musical moment in my immediate playlist. Flat-out gorgeous. The moment in which she sings those long notes (the words escape me right now) make me light-headed. Wowee zowee. Neal Weiss country-lovin' rock guy np - Feelies, Good Earth
RE: Mandy B
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Jon Weisberger wrote:
I've got to say, though, I like "Who (who will it
be)" the best. Is that an old tune?
With a co-publisher named "Twenty Second Century Music," I doubt it g.
The definite oldies are "I've Got A Right To Cry" (Hank Jr.), "Give
Myself A Party" (Don Gibson), "Trademark" (Carl Smith), "Falling,
Falling, Falling" (Ray Price). I assume that the Newbury and Bryants
tunes are not new, but I dunno who the original performers would be.
The Newbury tune was a minor hit for Gibson. The original version's
pretty swell, but Mandy tops it. "I'm Gonna Change Everything" is an old
Jim Reeves song. "Who (Who Will It Be)" and "The Whispering Wind (Blows
On By)" are both new ones written by the same songwriters (L. Russell
Brown and Pat McLaughlin). *Someone* here has to know who did the
Boudleaux and Felice song ("Don't Forget To Cry"). Margasak sez "With My
Eyes Wide Open I'm Dreaming" is an old pop tune, so we'll take his word
for it. That leaves "Mistakes" (Edgar Leslie/Horatio Nicholls) and "Ever
True Evermore" (Kermit Goell/Theodore Rhodes). If I was to stereotype
songwriter names, I'd suggest they were both written by old-school pop
songwriters.--don
Re: Mandy B
In a message dated 4/22/99 1:30:26 PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
*Someone* here has to know who did the
Boudleaux and Felice song ("Don't Forget To Cry").
Beck?
Re: Mandy B/ Dixie Chicks
David Cantwell wrote: At 12:04 PM 4/22/99 -0400, Jon wrote: I've heard it. It's a good, straight country shuffle; "nothing 'alt' about it" is right - you can hear a dozen or two like it any Saturday night on the Grand Ole Opry, and that's not a criticism. It will be interesting to see how it fares on the charts. I heard this on the radio the other day and asked out loud: Who the hell is doing this twangy country song? When the DJ said the Chicks, I was plenty surprised. But in a very good way. --david cantwell I've got the Dixie Chicks album. It's a good album with some good "country" stuff on it. It's usually the case that the better stuff is only allowed on the album because of all the other pop stuff around, but because they are selling so well now they can get away with putting the country stuff out as singles too. On the last track (Let 'Er Rip) they let loose with extended instrumental breaks. I wouldn't normally expect something like that to go out as a single, but now you never know... Louise -- If you like rocking country music, check out the Okeh Wranglers web site at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bluesmoke
RE: Clip: Mandy B, Charles Kim
The label sent the album's first single only to Americana and "nonreporting" country stations... Yeah, I meant to mention that after I read it on a Barnett-devoted website last night. That might account for its non-appearance on the Billboard chart (that's who the nonreporting stations don't report to) almost as much as tiny, impoverished Sire's inability to cough up enough payola. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
Re: Mandy B
Jeez, Kip, you're almost as easy to bait as Curry.g--don Waddaya mean, *almost* g Naw, I knew what Yates was up to. But I had just gotten through defending the Midwest to a friend of mine, so I was already in battle fatigues and figured I'd play along. NP: Tal Bachmann - played it yesterday, today and I'm betting tomorrow as well. This is the son of Randy "Looking Out For #1" Bachmann, yes? Kip
Re: Mandy B
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the son of Randy "Looking Out For #1" Bachmann, yes? Yup... JC
Re: Mandy B
Nice write up on Mandy Burnett in Peter Margasak's column in the Reader this week. It's at www.chireader.com. The section is "Post No Bills." enjoy! Linda
RE: Mandy B
I wonder if Jon could provide a list of records that have made the country music charts, singles, albums, whatever, that have not come from Nashville based labels in the past, let's say 5 years. Just looking for evidence that the "Nashville machine" doesn't exist. g Jim
RE: Mandy B
I wonder if Jon could provide a list of records that have made the country music charts, singles, albums, whatever, that have not come from Nashville based labels in the past, let's say 5 years. I don't need to. All I need to do is ask if Jim seriously thinks that if the same album were released by, say, Asylum Nashville, which put out Barnett's first album - co-produced by the head of the label, BTW - it would be doing any better at country radio (which isn't based in Nashville). If the answer is no, then obviously the issuing label, not to mention it's location, isn't the main problem; if the answer is yes, I've got some great oceanfront property in Arizona I need to talk to him about. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
RE: Mandy B
Jon is obviously confused. The main reason you aren't hearing Mandy Barnett on your local country radio station is because it is on a label that is not based in Nashville. His unwillingness to provide hard data proves my point. It has NOTHING to do with the music. It all depends on who is paying who. If you think there isn't a machine, I want a hit of that bluegrass you've been smokin'. g Jim, smilin'
RE: Mandy B
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon is obviously confused. The main reason you aren't hearing Mandy Barnett on your local country radio station is because it is on a label that is not based in Nashville. You really think that's the main reason? Then why didn't her first album do anything on country radio? Not only did it contain a number of fine songs, but it was obviously more HNC-friendly than her new one. I think Jon's main point is that the powers-that-be that control country radio (the folks who own the stations and the consultants who help program them) are primarily responsible for what you hear on country radio. That seems pretty obvious to me. Sure, the Nashville-based major labels are the source for the great bulk of what's heard on country radio, but it's the stations who ultimately decide what they are and aren't going to play from those labels. Hence the lack of airplay for Mandy's first Nashville label album, and hence the awfully lackluster airplay (one high-charting single, and a couple of great ones that bombed) for songs from The Key. If the country radio world ran according to Jim's logic, the almighty MCA would've been able to run whatever they damn well pleased from the megapopular Vince Gill up the country radio charts. That's obviously not the case. As for mainstream country radio not playing anything but stuff from the big country major labels, please tell me how this is different than the way it works in *any* commercial radio format.--don
Re: Mandy B
Jim, smilin (of course) The main reason you aren't hearing Mandy Barnett on your local country radio station is because it is on a label that is not based in Nashville. I'm hearing it on my local country station, but I guess that doesn't count since I work in a peon market and program my own music. If the mainstream press keeps up the full frontal assault over this record the mainstream stations may HAVE TO play it. Or they can just keep watching those shares keep on slip sliding away. Mike Hays http://www.TwangCast.com TM RealCountry 24 X 7 Please Visit Then let us know what you think! Mike Hays www.MikeHays.RealCountry.net For the best country artist web hosting, www.RealCountry.net
RE: Mandy B
Don writes: I think Jon's main point is that the powers-that-be that control country radio (the folks who own the stations and the consultants who help program them)are primarily responsible for what you hear on country radio. That seems pretty obvious to me. Sure, the Nashville-based major labels are the source for the great bulk of what's heard on country radio, but it's the stations who ultimately decide what they are and aren't going to play from those labels. My point, and I think we keep missing each other, is that country radio (which is NOT based in Nashville) and the country music labels are in bed on this together. Believe it or don't, the BIG labels pay the consultants (who control many stations) to get their records on the air. It's not like they send them a Fedex each week with cash in it, but there are under the table deals made in all formats that control what gets played. I know this kinda sounds like the X-Files, but it's true. The more money you throw at the consultants and their ilk, the better response you get. If Sire REALLY wanted to get Mandy Barnett on the radio, they'd hire a big time radio promoter, who would pay some consultant to add her record to his stations and then you'd hear her on the radio. Sire doesn't have the kind of money it takes to play that game at the same level as MCA or Arista. Sure it's called the Nashville machine, that doesn't mean it all happens in Nashville. Some people call it country music, that doesn't mean it's country music either. Jim, smilin'
Re: Mandy B
Pshaw. Since when does the press have any real impact on radio playlists? (Don't get me started on my exercise-in-futility rant about being a journalist.) I'd be curious to know how much Allison Moorer, the last great country critical darling, has benefited from her press. Anyone? I'd say both Allison and Kelly are benefiting, at least marginally, from the heavy press as they have both garnered appearances on the Opry and other notable media/TV outlets like Letterman et al. The one place the press is unable to effect seems to be at mainstream country radio and that is IMO (and many others here) the narrow minded pinhead programmers and consultants. A very few brave souls in major markets have dared to buck the consultants and have not only started spinning Mandy and Allison but are now reaching back for some Possum, Conway and other "classic country" artists. The Richmond VA (market 56) station "The River" has a TV ad running which segues from Tall Tall Trees to He Stopped Loving Her Today, showing their willingness to dig a little deeper. In addition, the little bitty AM country station playing a lot of hard core twang and virtually no HNC, in Richmond, has seen a 150% growth in share while the HNC has seen a 40% decline over the last 6 months. Mike Hays http://www.TwangCast.com TM RealCountry 24 X 7 Please Visit Then let us know what you think! Mike Hays www.MikeHays.RealCountry.net For the best country artist web hosting, www.RealCountry.net
RE: Mandy B
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point, and I think we keep missing each other, is that country radio (which is NOT based in Nashville) and the country music labels are in bed on this together. Believe it or don't, the BIG labels pay the consultants (who control many stations) to get their records on the air. It's not like they send them a Fedex each week with cash in it, but there are under the table deals made in all formats that control what gets played. I know this kinda sounds like the X-Files, but it's true. The more money you throw at the consultants and their ilk, the better response you get. If Sire REALLY wanted to get Mandy Barnett on the radio, they'd hire a big time radio promoter, who would pay some consultant to add her record to his stations and then you'd hear her on the radio. Sire doesn't have the kind of money it takes to play that game at the same level as MCA or Arista. All right then -- let's assume Jim's conspiracy theory is actually the way it works. (I'm not so naive to believe shit like that doesn't happen, but I very much doubt it's the overly simplistic, pay-for-play scenario described by Jim above.) Then what happened to The Key, Jim? You think Tony Brown decided all he wanted was one hit single from the album? If it's all a matter of consultant payola, then it shouldn't have been a problem for MCA to turn the followup singles on the albums into a few more megahits for Vince. That didn't happen, and the PRIMARY reason those singles stiff is that those MCA Made-In-Nashville products were deemed too-country-for-country-radio BY country radio. It's not because Tony Brown forgot to pay a few consultants. Like most conspiracy theories, Jim's may be attractive for those who like simple explanations for the complicated doings of the real world, but that doesn't make it right.--don n.p. James Hand - "Did You Forget Last Week's Payment, J.P.?"
RE: Mandy B
Jim says: My point, and I think we keep missing each other, is that country radio (which is NOT based in Nashville) and the country music labels are in bed on this togetherthere are under the table deals made in all formats that control what gets played Sure it's called the Nashville machine, that doesn't mean it all happens in Nashville. If radio is NOT based in Nashville, and the country music labels are (as they in fact are) nothing more than divisions of NOT based in Nashville companies, and there are these deals "in all formats" between these NOT based in Nashville consultants and NOT based in Nashville radio and NOT based in Nashville labels, then it ought not to be called the Nashville machine - and in fact, it isn't; what it's called by most people is the music bidness. The more money you throw at the consultants and their ilk, the better response you get. If Sire REALLY wanted to get Mandy Barnett on the radio, they'd hire a big time radio promoter, who would pay some consultant to add her record to his stations and then you'd hear her on the radio. Back to Don's question: why didn't the singles off The Key do better? MCA's too poor to pay a promoter? I don't *think* so. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
Re: Mandy B
For those of you keeping score at home, in the last 3 emails from Don, Jon W, and Jim C, the word "Nashville" has appeared 10 times in 3 paragraphs.
RE: Mandy B
Jon Weisberger wrote: Back to Don's question: why didn't the singles off The Key do better Maybe MCA found out he drove a Volvo. ~Greg ___ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
RE: Mandy B
why didn't the singles off The Key do better? Cos like Mandy Barnett, they were "too country." Jim, smilin'
Re: Mandy B
Dammit, you all aren't allowed to have this country radio/Nashville fracas without me. If there's gonna be any geographical knee-jerking -- what an image! -- around here, then I'm gonna do it! -- Terry Smith ps seriously, I'm holding out hope that Mandy Barnett's record will chart on country radio. Hell, it just came out. I'm curious, too, to see whether all the recent hubbub about big band and swing might translate into heightened interest for a big sound record like Mandy's. pps it's been a great week; discovered via the library, Solomon Burke and Lloyd Price. How'd I ripen into my 40s without having heard these guys? Mysteries of life. ppps Made a mistake the other night, and threw on Hadacol right after introducing myself to Mandy Barnett's new one. It wasn't fair to Hadocol, and I wound up taking it off after a few songs. I'll have to give it another chance.
Re: Mandy B
Two observations about this Jim vs. Don and Jon debate (a side issue: when the hell do we get Don vs. Jon?). Anyhow, first thing, aren't a lot of the sensitive ballad weiners coming out of Nashville not doing that well either? So it's evidently not just material that's "too country" that's having a difficult time, though I'm hoping the programmers will notice that and quit playing so much of that mild crap. I mean, which comes first, lousy record sales and then radio play falls off, or the other way around? Second thing, I'm not convinced by Don and Jon's example of Vince Gill's "The Key." It's one record, and I think we need some more examples. There's other factors that may have contributed to its lack of success (incidentally, a "lack of success" that very many performers in and out of Nashville envy greatly). But basically, until you've provided some more examples, you're vulnerable to the "exception that proves the rule" argument. -- Terry Smith, a normal music fan
Re: Mandy B
If the Garthman had made an album like The Key, you bet your ass it would be on the radio! Second thing, I'm not convinced by Don and Jon's example of Vince Gill's "The Key." It's one record, and I think we need some more examples. There's other factors that may have contributed to its lack of success (incidentally, a "lack of success" that very many performers in and out of Nashville envy greatly). But basically, until you've provided some more examples, you're vulnerable to the "exception that proves the rule" argument. -- Terry Smith, a normal music fan
RE: Mandy B
Two observations about this Jim vs. Don and Jon debate (a side issue: when the hell do we get Don vs. Jon?). Whenever the subject of the original alt.country comes up. Anyhow, first thing, aren't a lot of the sensitive ballad weiners coming out of Nashville not doing that well either? So it's evidently not just material that's "too country" that's having a difficult time... I didn't say it was, but it's certainly a big category of stuff that has had a hard time getting airplay, regardless of what label it's on. Furthermore, all the stuff you're referring to, and a lot of the light-weight New Country stuff in general is on what Jim calls Nashville-based labels, so the difficulty some of these acts are having argues against his pay=play equation too. ...which comes first, lousy record sales and then radio play falls off, or the other way around? The truism is that airplay drives sales (that's why labels send stuff to radio for free, eh?), and there's a lot of evidence to support that as a general proposition. On the other hand, you can get pretty decent sales without airplay; recent examples would include Kelly Willis, Steve Earle The Del McCoury Band and Trio II, all of which are or got pretty high on Billboard's sales chart without benefit of mainstream (country or otherwise) airplay. Alison Krauss Union Station's So Long, So Wrong went gold without benefit of mainstream airplay, too, to take a somewhat earlier example. Second thing, I'm not convinced by Don and Jon's example of Vince Gill's "The Key." It's one record, and I think we need some more examples. There's other factors that may have contributed to its lack of success (incidentally, a "lack of success" that very many performers in and out of Nashville envy greatly). But basically, until you've provided some more examples, you're vulnerable to the "exception that proves the rule" argument. Barnett's first album. Dawn Sears' second album. Daryle Singletary, who had a couple of big hits and then went nowhere on account of being too country. Rhonda Vincent. Junior Brown has gotten video airplay up the wazoo - won mainstream awards for his videos - and can't get airplay, and he's on Curb. Allison Moorer's not getting airplay, and she's on MCA and has been a personal project of Tony Brown's. Danni Leigh's basically gone nowhere airplay-wise. Skaggs' pre-bluegrass albums of the 90s. George Jones (when he went from MCA to Asylum, Evelyn Shriver said that as far as they were concerned, they were writing radio off up front). Those are off the top of my head, and I'll bet it wouldn't take long to come up with other examples. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
RE: Mandy B
If the Garthman had made an album like The Key, you bet your ass it would be on the radio! I dunno, John, I don't think "Longneck Bottle" did nearly as well as his poppier stuff, like that Dylan song. I guess we won't really know, though, until he releases that version of "The Fields Have Turned Brown" that's in the can g. Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
RE: Mandy B
Like most conspiracy theories, Jim's may be attractive for those who like simple explanations for the complicated doings of the real world, but that doesn't make it right. Well, I don't want to prolong the agony of this too much longer, but I just wanted to point out that I know it's a LOT more complicated than the simple scenario than I described. But I only have so much time to post, unlike a couple of others it seems. There's a ton of behind the scenes politics involved, stuff that we can't know, that explains why "The Key" wasn't more successful than it was and why certain artists get on the radio or get any exposure and some don't. I suggest reading "Get Hot Or Go Home" the story of Trisha Yearwood's rise in the early 90's for a pretty good glimpse at the behind the scene workings of the supposed "Nashville machine." I want to add that I hope Mike is right with his observation that some country stations are leaning towards actually playing country music again. I had to stop the other day to find out what song was playing on a local station cos it sounded almost "alt.country." Turned out to be the latest Dixie Chicks single. Anyone else heard that one? Jim, smilin'
Mandy B
Finally snagged Mandy Barnett's new record, "I've Got a Right to Cry," and haven't had so much fun listening to a record in a long time. Don's right; this is the best of the year (that I've heard). I also prematurely nominate Harold Bradley's electric guitar solo on "Who (Who Will It Be)" as the best guitar solo of the year, so far. Inventive, confident, understated, perfect for this wonderful song. This record has everything, from Barnett's perfect-fit vocals (the stretched out notes on "Who..." made me grin), to a great assortment of pop and country songs, with so many poppy hooks that it nearly ripped my earlobes. My question -- are "hooks" universal, or do they not transfer across genres? In other words, if the answer to that question is, "yes, hooks are hooks," how come a record like this one, chock full of irresistable melodic turns, doesn't automatically find its way onto radio playlists. I'm sure there's an easy answer, though I hope it's more complicated than "commercial radio programmers are all assholes." Again, though, I can't say enough about this record. Thanks all for the recommendation. -- Terry Smith ps And I didn't even mention the production -- but I will now. Owen Bradley gets a lot of the praise for this record, though he produced a third of the songs. He deserves it, because I'm sure his spirit infused the whole project. But I also think that his kid brother, Harold, and co-producers Bobby Bradley and Barnett deserve raves. The production is creative, inventive, confident and perfect for these songs. And Emmons and the other players show, conclusively why they're some of the best session players who ever lived.
FREE == Re: Mandy B
In a message dated 4/20/1999 8:23:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Barnett's perfect-fit vocals (the stretched out notes on "Who..." made me grin), to a great assortment of pop and country songs, with so many poppy hooks that it nearly ripped my earlobes. Nashville P2ers take note: Tonight at Tower Records, Mandy will be singing for FREE at 6pm. Get there by 5:30 for a decent sightline. After that, grab a burger at Rotier's and then head over to the * Vince Bell * gig at the Exit/In, where he'll be serving up a mighty fine helping of "TEXAS PLATES." 'nuf said Kate
Re: Mandy B
-- Jim_Caligiuri wrote: Sire is NOT part of the "Nashville machine." Commercial country programmers and consultants only pay attention to records out of Nashville. The Derailers, also on Sire, ran into the same problem. That is part of the problem but not really, when these acts signed to Sire they weren't looking at going after country radio. Mandy had already played that game when she was on Asylum and they couldn't make anything happen for her. But Americana does embrace these artists, we just have to make the format grow and Jessie Scott is one step in the right direction in making that happen. Tiffany Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
Re: Mandy B
Tiffany says: But Americana does embrace these artists, we just have to make the format grow and Jessie Scott is one step in the right direction in making that happen. Oh please. You've been saying the same thing (Insert Chris or Rob for Jessie at will) for too long now. Americana ain't happening until it can cross artists like Mandy and the Derailers over to other formats. We've been through this before. Americana won't be a REAL format until it has quite a few influential major market stations playing the music 24-7. Wake me up when that happens. In the eyes and ears of a normal music fan, Terry Smith for example, this music belongs on country radio. Jim, yawnin'
RE: Mandy B
Americana ain't happening until it can cross artists like Mandy and the Derailers over to other formats. We've been through this before. Americana won't be a REAL format until it has quite a few influential major market stations playing the music 24-7. Let's see. It ain't a REAL format until it has a bunch of major market stations playing the music 24/7, but it ain't happening until it's a minor league of farm teams for other formats. If there's some logic or consistency to those views, it's pretty well hidden. FWIW, my vote's for the real-when-it-has-big-stations-24/7 one, though even that has some weaknesses, as evidenced by the occasional disparity between airplay and album sales (like, f'r instance, of The Mountain, or What I Deserve, or Trio II). As Tiffany pointed out, being on a "non-Nashville" label is the least of Barnett's problems when it comes to country radio, which is not synonymous with Nashville, or even the "Nashville machine"; the geographical knee-jerking gets really tiresome. Country radio isn't based in Nashville, and neither are the consultants who are shaping programming decisions. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the "Nashville machine" has put out some great country music that hasn't been able to break country radio (The Key has generated fewer Top 10 singles than any of Gill's previous MCA albums, to take only one obvious, familiar example), it just takes someone with normal knees. BTW, can someone refresh my memory as to which cut from I've Got A Right To Cry was the first single/video shipped to country radio, CMT, etc.? Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
