[RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

This last weekend I replaced both my 700x35 Schwalbe Marathon Supremes.   
These tires had 9,734.89 miles on them.  I know most of you could care 
less, but I found it interesting how much tread was still left.  Take a 
look at the cut-away view of the most worn tire.  I apologize for the low 
quality pics, but I do not have a Flicker account and so I did what I 
could.  Hopefully they are viewable.

Matt

On Friday, August 15, 2014 9:34:20 AM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote:
>
> As of today I have 9,340 commuter miles on my 700x35 Schwalbe Marathon 
> Supremes.  These tires have been rotated front to back three times.  I will 
> not rotate again, but it has become somewhat of a game to see how far these 
> tires will go.  Also worth noting:  I had 5 flats in the 1st 2,000 miles 
> running 80 psi front and rear.  Since than, I've run a max of 50 front and 
> 60 rear.  Knocking on wood as I type...I haven't had a flat since.  That's 
> over 7,000 flat free smiles.
>
> Matt
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Lynne Fitz]

Grand Bois Cypres - tried them.  The Hutchinsons are more durable, and 
weigh about the same.  When I do get around to swapping tires on the 
Bleriot, there are some Soma Xpress tires in the bin.

Hey!  Steve, you are retired!  Want to ride a perm pop with me out of 
Alexandria in October?

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:28:38 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>  On 08/19/2014 03:22 PM, Lynne Fitz wrote:
>  
> Like Steve, I keep a notebook.  While I am not particularly proactive 
> about replacing things, I do keep an eye on the tires and chain.  And am 
> usually amazed by the mileage I get on both.  Actually, my riding buddies 
> are more amazed :-) 
>
>  The bike goes up on the stand for a clean and lube before most biggish 
> rides; I can look at the tires at that point.  I have a chain-checker.
>
>  As for tires - I had Marathons once, on my then-commuter.  Never again, 
> although I never worried about getting a flat.
>  
>
>
>
> proof against even these things...
>
>  
>  The Riv currently has mismatched tires -  Michelin Axial Raid and 
> Michelin Megamium.  I know, they don't even have matching sidewalls.  But 
> neither is up for replacement.  I do have some tires waiting in the wings.
>  
>
> Wow.  If they're 650B tires, they must be truly ancient ancient by now.  I 
> think it's been at least 10 years since the Axial Raid 650B was available, 
> and something like 5-8 for the Megamium, no?
>
>
>  
>  The Sweetpea (rando, big miles bike) is currently running the Hutchinson 
> 650b tires.  I like them.  I can ride them into the ground, barring any 
> seriously bad cuts.  I'd go for the Compass tires, but there are no 650b 32 
> or 34 ones available, and my bike doesn't do well with 38s - not enough 
> room.
>  
>
> How about the Grand Bois Cypres 32mm 650B?
>
>
>  
>  As long as it isn't raining, cleaning and lubing a bike is meditative. 
>  If it is cold, fill the wash bucket with hot water.
>  
>
> When it's cold I bring the work stand indoors and do it in the basement.
>
> Somebody commented about chain cleaning being "messy."  I use mineral 
> spirits in old coffee cans (stored between times in an old plastic mineral 
> spirits bottle, to allow the silt to settle to the bottom) and unless I'm 
> clumsy and knock the can over, there's neither mess nor smell (it's well 
> worth paying the premium for non-stink mineral spirits in this case!).  
>
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/19/2014 03:22 PM, Lynne Fitz wrote:
Like Steve, I keep a notebook.  While I am not particularly proactive 
about replacing things, I do keep an eye on the tires and chain.  And 
am usually amazed by the mileage I get on both.  Actually, my riding 
buddies are more amazed :-)


The bike goes up on the stand for a clean and lube before most biggish 
rides; I can look at the tires at that point.  I have a chain-checker.


As for tires - I had Marathons once, on my then-commuter.  Never 
again, although I never worried about getting a flat.




proof against even these things...



The Riv currently has mismatched tires -  Michelin Axial Raid and 
Michelin Megamium.  I know, they don't even have matching sidewalls. 
 But neither is up for replacement.  I do have some tires waiting in 
the wings.


Wow.  If they're 650B tires, they must be truly ancient ancient by now.  
I think it's been at least 10 years since the Axial Raid 650B was 
available, and something like 5-8 for the Megamium, no?





The Sweetpea (rando, big miles bike) is currently running the 
Hutchinson 650b tires.  I like them.  I can ride them into the ground, 
barring any seriously bad cuts.  I'd go for the Compass tires, but 
there are no 650b 32 or 34 ones available, and my bike doesn't do well 
with 38s - not enough room.


How about the Grand Bois Cypres 32mm 650B?




As long as it isn't raining, cleaning and lubing a bike is meditative. 
 If it is cold, fill the wash bucket with hot water.


When it's cold I bring the work stand indoors and do it in the basement.

Somebody commented about chain cleaning being "messy."  I use mineral 
spirits in old coffee cans (stored between times in an old plastic 
mineral spirits bottle, to allow the silt to settle to the bottom) and 
unless I'm clumsy and knock the can over, there's neither mess nor smell 
(it's well worth paying the premium for non-stink mineral spirits in 
this case!).


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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Lynne Fitz]

Like Steve, I keep a notebook.  While I am not particularly proactive about 
replacing things, I do keep an eye on the tires and chain.  And am usually 
amazed by the mileage I get on both.  Actually, my riding buddies are more 
amazed :-)

The bike goes up on the stand for a clean and lube before most biggish 
rides; I can look at the tires at that point.  I have a chain-checker.

As for tires - I had Marathons once, on my then-commuter.  Never again, 
although I never worried about getting a flat.

The Riv currently has mismatched tires -  Michelin Axial Raid and Michelin 
Megamium.  I know, they don't even have matching sidewalls.  But neither is 
up for replacement.  I do have some tires waiting in the wings.

The Sweetpea (rando, big miles bike) is currently running the Hutchinson 
650b tires.  I like them.  I can ride them into the ground, barring any 
seriously bad cuts.  I'd go for the Compass tires, but there are no 650b 32 
or 34 ones available, and my bike doesn't do well with 38s - not enough 
room.

As long as it isn't raining, cleaning and lubing a bike is meditative.  If 
it is cold, fill the wash bucket with hot water.

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:48:39 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>  On 08/19/2014 09:49 AM, Allingham II, Thomas J wrote:
>  
>  Steve (and all):
>  
> *"**And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift cables 
> fray and need periodic replacement.  Even with bar end shifters (which all 
> those bikes have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will poke you in the 
> finger and alert you to impending failure before it actually happens, 
> unlike the case with Shimano STI, it's still awkward and inconvenient if 
> you find yourself on a hilly ride 50 miles from the end of the ride reduced 
> to two or three gears on the front, unable to use your rear derailleur.  
> For Shimano indexed bar end shifters, that happens around 5,000 miles.  
> Careful record-keeping would let you change them out before they started to 
> fray.  (I hope to get there some day...)**"*
>  
> It would never have occurred to me to change out a shift cable (until it 
> broke, I guess).  There must be other maintenance items like that which you 
> keep track of -- how did you develop your list?  How did you determine 
> replacement intervals for each maintenance item?  Is there a widely used 
> list that I'm not aware of?
>
>
> Shift cables are the main one you need to watch out for by mileage, and 
> that primarily because for the most common shifters (i.e., STI) the signs 
> of impending failure are not visible and the failure can be catastrophic, 
> with shards of broken cable wire hopelessly jamming the complex innards of 
> an STI unit, to the point of your having to purchase a replacement unit.  
> Less catastrophic failure mode for bar ends: the frayed cable strands will 
> poke you in the finger and alert you before the cable actually breaks, but 
> depending on the terrain it can be a huge pain to be left with only two or 
> three usable gears (i.e., up front only) for the rest f the ride.
>
> With pretty much everything else you can see or feel the signs of wear, 
> assuming you take the time to look.  It's better to change tires before 
> they're down to the casing, but for some reason you occasionally see people 
> on the road with tires with large sections of tread that have actually come 
> loose.  Normally a sudden surge in the number of flats will indicate a 
> tread that's gotten too thin, but sometimes random chance will spare you 
> until the tire is ready for a catastrophic failure.  Brake pad wear can be 
> seen, too, if you but look; however I still remember one time I let my rear 
> pads get so worn on my commuter that on a hard braking in a tricky traffic 
> situation (when else would you brake hard?) the pads slipped off the rims 
> and down into the spokes.  On centerpulls, worn pads can end up with the 
> pad rising above the rim (rather than below it, as happens with 
> cantilevers) and contacting and destroying your tire's sidewall.
>
> If you habitually test your headset by rocking the bike forward against a 
> fully applied front brake you won't be taken by surprise by a loosening 
> headset, and if you periodically check your chain with a ruler or wear 
> gauge you won't be taken by surprise by chain stretch.
>
>
>   
> And more broadly -- do folks on this list have a favorite little-known or 
> widely neglected maintenance item that can save us a lot of grief?
>  
>
>
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/19/2014 09:49 AM, Allingham II, Thomas J wrote:

Steve (and all):
/"//And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift 
cables fray and need periodic replacement. Even with bar end shifters 
(which all those bikes have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will 
poke you in the finger and alert you to impending failure before it 
actually happens, unlike the case with Shimano STI, it's still awkward 
and inconvenient if you find yourself on a hilly ride 50 miles from 
the end of the ride reduced to two or three gears on the front, unable 
to use your rear derailleur. For Shimano indexed bar end shifters, 
that happens around 5,000 miles.  Careful record-keeping would let you 
change them out before they started to fray.  (I hope to get there 
some day...)//"/
It would never have occurred to me to change out a shift cable (until 
it broke, I guess).  There must be other maintenance items like that 
which you keep track of -- how did you develop your list?  How did you 
determine replacement intervals for each maintenance item?  Is there a 
widely used list that I'm not aware of?


Shift cables are the main one you need to watch out for by mileage, and 
that primarily because for the most common shifters (i.e., STI) the 
signs of impending failure are not visible and the failure can be 
catastrophic, with shards of broken cable wire hopelessly jamming the 
complex innards of an STI unit, to the point of your having to purchase 
a replacement unit.  Less catastrophic failure mode for bar ends: the 
frayed cable strands will poke you in the finger and alert you before 
the cable actually breaks, but depending on the terrain it can be a huge 
pain to be left with only two or three usable gears (i.e., up front 
only) for the rest f the ride.


With pretty much everything else you can see or feel the signs of wear, 
assuming you take the time to look.  It's better to change tires before 
they're down to the casing, but for some reason you occasionally see 
people on the road with tires with large sections of tread that have 
actually come loose.  Normally a sudden surge in the number of flats 
will indicate a tread that's gotten too thin, but sometimes random 
chance will spare you until the tire is ready for a catastrophic 
failure.  Brake pad wear can be seen, too, if you but look; however I 
still remember one time I let my rear pads get so worn on my commuter 
that on a hard braking in a tricky traffic situation (when else would 
you brake hard?) the pads slipped off the rims and down into the 
spokes.  On centerpulls, worn pads can end up with the pad rising above 
the rim (rather than below it, as happens with cantilevers) and 
contacting and destroying your tire's sidewall.


If you habitually test your headset by rocking the bike forward against 
a fully applied front brake you won't be taken by surprise by a 
loosening headset, and if you periodically check your chain with a ruler 
or wear gauge you won't be taken by surprise by chain stretch.



And more broadly -- do folks on this list have a favorite little-known 
or widely neglected maintenance item that can save us a lot of grief?



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RE: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Jim Bronson]

I keep a replacement shift cable in my saddlebags.  They are quite
inexpensive and don't take up much space.
On Aug 19, 2014 8:59 AM, "Allingham II, Thomas J" <
thomas.alling...@skadden.com> wrote:

>  Steve (and all):
>
> *"**And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift cables
> fray and need periodic replacement.  Even with bar end shifters (which all
> those bikes have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will poke you in the
> finger and alert you to impending failure before it actually happens,
> unlike the case with Shimano STI, it's still awkward and inconvenient if
> you find yourself on a hilly ride 50 miles from the end of the ride reduced
> to two or three gears on the front, unable to use your rear derailleur.
> For Shimano indexed bar end shifters, that happens around 5,000 miles.
> Careful record-keeping would let you change them out before they started to
> fray.  (I hope to get there some day...)**"*
>
> It would never have occurred to me to change out a shift cable (until it
> broke, I guess).  There must be other maintenance items like that which you
> keep track of -- how did you develop your list?  How did you determine
> replacement intervals for each maintenance item?  Is there a widely used
> list that I'm not aware of?
>
> And more broadly -- do folks on this list have a favorite little-known or
> widely neglected maintenance item that can save us a lot of grief?
>
> Tom "Holy-s***-I-really-AM-a-clueless-idiot!" Allingham
>
> -Original Message-
> From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [
> mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> ] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 6:13 PM
> To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders
>
> On 08/18/2014 05:33 PM, Ryan wrote:
> > If I recall , Steve, I believe you're retired, correct?
>
> Yes, that's correct.
>
> > So if you are not working , you do have more time available.
>
> True.  However, it's not like it's really all that time-consuming, and the
> payoff in terms of equipment longevity and smooth, trouble-free function on
> rides is worth it to me.  Besides, it's a chance to fondle the equipment
> and actually look at it from time to time (not recommended while riding!).
>
>
> > Nonetheless, those are impressive yearly mileages and it's awesome
> > that you are so meticulous.!
>
> I am a charter member of the Cheap Bastards Society of America and proudly
> put the CCB ("Certified Cheap Bastard") initials after my name.
> Even when you buy them on sale, chains and cassettes are expensive; and
> when you keep them clean they last a whole lot longer.
>
> As for meticulous: one thing I was forced into being meticulous about was
> keeping records of maintenance.  I have six bikes on the road, and a few
> years ago learned that my memory simply wasn't up to keeping track of how
> long things were lasting, or when the last time was that I cleaned or
> replaced something.  "Totally lost control" is a fair description.
>
> And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift cables fray
> and need periodic replacement.  Even with bar end shifters (which all those
> bikes have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will poke you in the finger
> and alert you to impending failure before it actually happens, unlike the
> case with Shimano STI, it's still awkward and inconvenient if you find
> yourself on a hilly ride 50 miles from the end of the ride reduced to two
> or three gears on the front, unable to use your rear derailleur.  For
> Shimano indexed bar end shifters, that happens around 5,000 miles.  Careful
> record-keeping would let you change them out before they started to fray.
> (I hope to get there some day...)
>
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RE: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Steve (and all):

"And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift cables fray and 
need periodic replacement.  Even with bar end shifters (which all those bikes 
have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will poke you in the finger and alert 
you to impending failure before it actually happens, unlike the case with 
Shimano STI, it's still awkward and inconvenient if you find yourself on a 
hilly ride 50 miles from the end of the ride reduced to two or three gears on 
the front, unable to use your rear derailleur.  For Shimano indexed bar end 
shifters, that happens around 5,000 miles.  Careful record-keeping would let 
you change them out before they started to fray.  (I hope to get there some 
day...)"

It would never have occurred to me to change out a shift cable (until it broke, 
I guess).  There must be other maintenance items like that which you keep track 
of -- how did you develop your list?  How did you determine replacement 
intervals for each maintenance item?  Is there a widely used list that I'm not 
aware of?

And more broadly -- do folks on this list have a favorite little-known or 
widely neglected maintenance item that can save us a lot of grief?

Tom "Holy-s***-I-really-AM-a-clueless-idiot!" Allingham

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 6:13 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

On 08/18/2014 05:33 PM, Ryan wrote:
> If I recall , Steve, I believe you're retired, correct?

Yes, that's correct.

> So if you are not working , you do have more time available.

True.  However, it's not like it's really all that time-consuming, and the 
payoff in terms of equipment longevity and smooth, trouble-free function on 
rides is worth it to me.  Besides, it's a chance to fondle the equipment and 
actually look at it from time to time (not recommended while riding!).


> Nonetheless, those are impressive yearly mileages and it's awesome
> that you are so meticulous.!

I am a charter member of the Cheap Bastards Society of America and proudly put 
the CCB ("Certified Cheap Bastard") initials after my name.
Even when you buy them on sale, chains and cassettes are expensive; and when 
you keep them clean they last a whole lot longer.

As for meticulous: one thing I was forced into being meticulous about was 
keeping records of maintenance.  I have six bikes on the road, and a few years 
ago learned that my memory simply wasn't up to keeping track of how long things 
were lasting, or when the last time was that I cleaned or replaced something.  
"Totally lost control" is a fair description.

And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift cables fray and 
need periodic replacement.  Even with bar end shifters (which all those bikes 
have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will poke you in the finger and alert 
you to impending failure before it actually happens, unlike the case with 
Shimano STI, it's still awkward and inconvenient if you find yourself on a 
hilly ride 50 miles from the end of the ride reduced to two or three gears on 
the front, unable to use your rear derailleur.  For Shimano indexed bar end 
shifters, that happens around 5,000 miles.  Careful record-keeping would let 
you change them out before they started to fray.  (I hope to get there some 
day...)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Metin Uz]

It's a half-used bulk spool of cheap KMC chain a bike shop was clearing 
out, good for 5-speed but not indexed shifting. Works fine for fixed gear 
since I run road chainrings and 3/32 cogs.

--Metin

On Monday, August 18, 2014 4:07:13 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Lifetime supply of chain in a spool?  That's wild.  I've never heard of 
> that.  How did you hook that up?  What chain manufacturer?
>
> On Monday, August 18, 2014 4:00:45 PM UTC-7, Metin Uz wrote:
>>
>> With limited time, I try a different approach. I put at least 5,000 miles 
>> on the fixed gear commuter. When the chain gets noisy, it gets lubed (maybe 
>> once a month). I have a lifetime supply of chain in a spool, replaced maybe 
>> once every other year.
>>
>> I make sure my cables and tires are in good shape. I may do a 400K and a 
>> 600K before I check things for wear. I also carry spare brake and shift 
>> cables, chain tool, master link etc. on every long ride, Never needed to 
>> use them on my own bike...
>>
>> --Metin
>>
>> On Monday, August 18, 2014 3:13:18 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>>
>>> On 08/18/2014 05:33 PM, Ryan wrote: 
>>> > If I recall , Steve, I believe you're retired, correct? 
>>>
>>> Yes, that's correct. 
>>>
>>> > So if you are not working , you do have more time available. 
>>>
>>> True.  However, it's not like it's really all that time-consuming, and 
>>> the payoff in terms of equipment longevity and smooth, trouble-free 
>>> function on rides is worth it to me.  Besides, it's a chance to fondle 
>>> the equipment and actually look at it from time to time (not recommended 
>>> while riding!). 
>>>
>>>
>>> > Nonetheless, those are impressive yearly mileages and it's awesome 
>>> > that you are so meticulous.! 
>>>
>>> I am a charter member of the Cheap Bastards Society of America and 
>>> proudly put the CCB ("Certified Cheap Bastard") initials after my name. 
>>>   
>>> Even when you buy them on sale, chains and cassettes are expensive; and 
>>> when you keep them clean they last a whole lot longer. 
>>>
>>> As for meticulous: one thing I was forced into being meticulous about 
>>> was keeping records of maintenance.  I have six bikes on the road, and a 
>>> few years ago learned that my memory simply wasn't up to keeping track 
>>> of how long things were lasting, or when the last time was that I 
>>> cleaned or replaced something.  "Totally lost control" is a fair 
>>> description. 
>>>
>>> And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift cables 
>>> fray and need periodic replacement.  Even with bar end shifters (which 
>>> all those bikes have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will poke you 
>>> in the finger and alert you to impending failure before it actually 
>>> happens, unlike the case with Shimano STI, it's still awkward and 
>>> inconvenient if you find yourself on a hilly ride 50 miles from the end 
>>> of the ride reduced to two or three gears on the front, unable to use 
>>> your rear derailleur.  For Shimano indexed bar end shifters, that 
>>> happens around 5,000 miles.  Careful record-keeping would let you change 
>>> them out before they started to fray.  (I hope to get there some day...) 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/18/2014 06:44 PM, Ryan wrote:
I also  like what Grant seaid about riding like a fairy not an ox. I'm 
a big fairy, though. 


Reminds me of a moment about 20 years ago, riding alongside this guy out 
in rural Virginia.  We're talking about wheels.  I'm riding a 20 year 
old Paramount, with 18 year old wheels.  As we ride across a set of 
railroad tracks, he's telling me how he replaces his wheels every year.  
I slow down, get up out of the saddle, bent arms and legs, gently ride 
across the tracks, and he stays planted on the saddle, rides across them 
BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM.  No wonder he replaces wheels every year!   And 
this guy was every bit as big as me, no sylph.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Bill Lindsay]

Lifetime supply of chain in a spool?  That's wild.  I've never heard of 
that.  How did you hook that up?  What chain manufacturer?

On Monday, August 18, 2014 4:00:45 PM UTC-7, Metin Uz wrote:
>
> With limited time, I try a different approach. I put at least 5,000 miles 
> on the fixed gear commuter. When the chain gets noisy, it gets lubed (maybe 
> once a month). I have a lifetime supply of chain in a spool, replaced maybe 
> once every other year.
>
> I make sure my cables and tires are in good shape. I may do a 400K and a 
> 600K before I check things for wear. I also carry spare brake and shift 
> cables, chain tool, master link etc. on every long ride, Never needed to 
> use them on my own bike...
>
> --Metin
>
> On Monday, August 18, 2014 3:13:18 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> On 08/18/2014 05:33 PM, Ryan wrote: 
>> > If I recall , Steve, I believe you're retired, correct? 
>>
>> Yes, that's correct. 
>>
>> > So if you are not working , you do have more time available. 
>>
>> True.  However, it's not like it's really all that time-consuming, and 
>> the payoff in terms of equipment longevity and smooth, trouble-free 
>> function on rides is worth it to me.  Besides, it's a chance to fondle 
>> the equipment and actually look at it from time to time (not recommended 
>> while riding!). 
>>
>>
>> > Nonetheless, those are impressive yearly mileages and it's awesome 
>> > that you are so meticulous.! 
>>
>> I am a charter member of the Cheap Bastards Society of America and 
>> proudly put the CCB ("Certified Cheap Bastard") initials after my name.   
>> Even when you buy them on sale, chains and cassettes are expensive; and 
>> when you keep them clean they last a whole lot longer. 
>>
>> As for meticulous: one thing I was forced into being meticulous about 
>> was keeping records of maintenance.  I have six bikes on the road, and a 
>> few years ago learned that my memory simply wasn't up to keeping track 
>> of how long things were lasting, or when the last time was that I 
>> cleaned or replaced something.  "Totally lost control" is a fair 
>> description. 
>>
>> And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift cables 
>> fray and need periodic replacement.  Even with bar end shifters (which 
>> all those bikes have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will poke you 
>> in the finger and alert you to impending failure before it actually 
>> happens, unlike the case with Shimano STI, it's still awkward and 
>> inconvenient if you find yourself on a hilly ride 50 miles from the end 
>> of the ride reduced to two or three gears on the front, unable to use 
>> your rear derailleur.  For Shimano indexed bar end shifters, that 
>> happens around 5,000 miles.  Careful record-keeping would let you change 
>> them out before they started to fray.  (I hope to get there some day...) 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Metin Uz]

With limited time, I try a different approach. I put at least 5,000 miles 
on the fixed gear commuter. When the chain gets noisy, it gets lubed (maybe 
once a month). I have a lifetime supply of chain in a spool, replaced maybe 
once every other year.

I make sure my cables and tires are in good shape. I may do a 400K and a 
600K before I check things for wear. I also carry spare brake and shift 
cables, chain tool, master link etc. on every long ride, Never needed to 
use them on my own bike...

--Metin

On Monday, August 18, 2014 3:13:18 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On 08/18/2014 05:33 PM, Ryan wrote: 
> > If I recall , Steve, I believe you're retired, correct? 
>
> Yes, that's correct. 
>
> > So if you are not working , you do have more time available. 
>
> True.  However, it's not like it's really all that time-consuming, and 
> the payoff in terms of equipment longevity and smooth, trouble-free 
> function on rides is worth it to me.  Besides, it's a chance to fondle 
> the equipment and actually look at it from time to time (not recommended 
> while riding!). 
>
>
> > Nonetheless, those are impressive yearly mileages and it's awesome 
> > that you are so meticulous.! 
>
> I am a charter member of the Cheap Bastards Society of America and 
> proudly put the CCB ("Certified Cheap Bastard") initials after my name.   
> Even when you buy them on sale, chains and cassettes are expensive; and 
> when you keep them clean they last a whole lot longer. 
>
> As for meticulous: one thing I was forced into being meticulous about 
> was keeping records of maintenance.  I have six bikes on the road, and a 
> few years ago learned that my memory simply wasn't up to keeping track 
> of how long things were lasting, or when the last time was that I 
> cleaned or replaced something.  "Totally lost control" is a fair 
> description. 
>
> And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift cables 
> fray and need periodic replacement.  Even with bar end shifters (which 
> all those bikes have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will poke you 
> in the finger and alert you to impending failure before it actually 
> happens, unlike the case with Shimano STI, it's still awkward and 
> inconvenient if you find yourself on a hilly ride 50 miles from the end 
> of the ride reduced to two or three gears on the front, unable to use 
> your rear derailleur.  For Shimano indexed bar end shifters, that 
> happens around 5,000 miles.  Careful record-keeping would let you change 
> them out before they started to fray.  (I hope to get there some day...) 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Ryan]

That is a good point:) Now, to be totally honest, my retired partner does  
my mechanical work for me...I'm kind of a spaz. He is a former potter and 
extremely good with his hands
 
But, you are so right that  good bikes deserve TLC and I'm extremely 
sensitive to anything not quite right on my own bikes.I also  like what 
Grant seaid about riding like a fairy not an ox. I'm a big fairy, 
though. I'm not too fussed if they get a little dirty, especially my 
workhorses that are locked up downtown. But if I'm doing a long ride, the 
last thing I want to think about is some catastrophic failure caused by 
neglect on our part. So we do pay attention to tire wear, chain wear, wear 
on the rims, lubrication, proper inflation and things like that.
 
Cheers...Ryan in Winnipeg
On Monday, August 18, 2014 5:13:18 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:

> On 08/18/2014 05:33 PM, Ryan wrote: 
> > If I recall , Steve, I believe you're retired, correct? 
>
> Yes, that's correct. 
>
> > So if you are not working , you do have more time available. 
>
> True.  However, it's not like it's really all that time-consuming, and 
> the payoff in terms of equipment longevity and smooth, trouble-free 
> function on rides is worth it to me.  Besides, it's a chance to fondle 
> the equipment and actually look at it from time to time (not recommended 
> while riding!). 
>
>
> > Nonetheless, those are impressive yearly mileages and it's awesome 
> > that you are so meticulous.! 
>
> I am a charter member of the Cheap Bastards Society of America and 
> proudly put the CCB ("Certified Cheap Bastard") initials after my name.   
> Even when you buy them on sale, chains and cassettes are expensive; and 
> when you keep them clean they last a whole lot longer. 
>
> As for meticulous: one thing I was forced into being meticulous about 
> was keeping records of maintenance.  I have six bikes on the road, and a 
> few years ago learned that my memory simply wasn't up to keeping track 
> of how long things were lasting, or when the last time was that I 
> cleaned or replaced something.  "Totally lost control" is a fair 
> description. 
>
> And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift cables 
> fray and need periodic replacement.  Even with bar end shifters (which 
> all those bikes have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will poke you 
> in the finger and alert you to impending failure before it actually 
> happens, unlike the case with Shimano STI, it's still awkward and 
> inconvenient if you find yourself on a hilly ride 50 miles from the end 
> of the ride reduced to two or three gears on the front, unable to use 
> your rear derailleur.  For Shimano indexed bar end shifters, that 
> happens around 5,000 miles.  Careful record-keeping would let you change 
> them out before they started to fray.  (I hope to get there some day...) 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/18/2014 05:33 PM, Ryan wrote:

If I recall , Steve, I believe you're retired, correct?


Yes, that's correct.


So if you are not working , you do have more time available.


True.  However, it's not like it's really all that time-consuming, and 
the payoff in terms of equipment longevity and smooth, trouble-free 
function on rides is worth it to me.  Besides, it's a chance to fondle 
the equipment and actually look at it from time to time (not recommended 
while riding!).



Nonetheless, those are impressive yearly mileages and it's awesome 
that you are so meticulous.!


I am a charter member of the Cheap Bastards Society of America and 
proudly put the CCB ("Certified Cheap Bastard") initials after my name.  
Even when you buy them on sale, chains and cassettes are expensive; and 
when you keep them clean they last a whole lot longer.


As for meticulous: one thing I was forced into being meticulous about 
was keeping records of maintenance.  I have six bikes on the road, and a 
few years ago learned that my memory simply wasn't up to keeping track 
of how long things were lasting, or when the last time was that I 
cleaned or replaced something.  "Totally lost control" is a fair 
description.


And sometimes you really do have to know.  For example, shift cables 
fray and need periodic replacement.  Even with bar end shifters (which 
all those bikes have) where a fraying cable's stray ends will poke you 
in the finger and alert you to impending failure before it actually 
happens, unlike the case with Shimano STI, it's still awkward and 
inconvenient if you find yourself on a hilly ride 50 miles from the end 
of the ride reduced to two or three gears on the front, unable to use 
your rear derailleur.  For Shimano indexed bar end shifters, that 
happens around 5,000 miles.  Careful record-keeping would let you change 
them out before they started to fray.  (I hope to get there some day...)


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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Ryan]

If I recall , Steve, I believe you're retired, correct?  So if you are not 
working , you do have more time available. Nonetheless, those are 
impressive yearly mileages and it's awesome that you are so meticulous.! 
On Monday, August 18, 2014 3:26:36 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On 08/18/2014 04:12 PM, Metin Uz wrote: 
> > I ride 10K to 15K miles a year. If I were to check my bike and re-lube 
> > the chain every 100 miles, I would have much less time to ride. 
>
> 2 years ago I rode 11,111 miles.  Last year my knee failed in November, 
> so I only managed 10,600 miles.  I have plenty of time to ride - in 
> fact, I do so almost every day, and my chain-cleaning doesn't cut into 
> my riding time at all. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Bill Lindsay]

"my chain-cleaning doesn't cut into 
my riding time at all."

Metin didn't say that it did.  Metin merely said that if he were to 
remove/soak/dry/relube his chain once every 3 or 4 days over a year, it 
would be a time commitment that he could not afford.  The fact that you, 
Steve, do have the time to remove/soak/dry/relube your chain every 3 or 4 
days is great.  I bet your bikes work absolutely flawlessly all the time. 
 They always look to be in top shape when you show photographs of them.

On Monday, August 18, 2014 1:26:36 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On 08/18/2014 04:12 PM, Metin Uz wrote: 
> > I ride 10K to 15K miles a year. If I were to check my bike and re-lube 
> > the chain every 100 miles, I would have much less time to ride. 
>
> 2 years ago I rode 11,111 miles.  Last year my knee failed in November, 
> so I only managed 10,600 miles.  I have plenty of time to ride - in 
> fact, I do so almost every day, and my chain-cleaning doesn't cut into 
> my riding time at all. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/18/2014 04:12 PM, Metin Uz wrote:
I ride 10K to 15K miles a year. If I were to check my bike and re-lube 
the chain every 100 miles, I would have much less time to ride.


2 years ago I rode 11,111 miles.  Last year my knee failed in November, 
so I only managed 10,600 miles.  I have plenty of time to ride - in 
fact, I do so almost every day, and my chain-cleaning doesn't cut into 
my riding time at all.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Metin Uz]

I ride 10K to 15K miles a year. If I were to check my bike and re-lube the 
chain every 100 miles, I would have much less time to ride.

--Metin

On Monday, August 18, 2014 11:53:52 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> I like to clean and re-lube the chain every 100 mi or so. The tire check 
> takes place while the chain dries from its soak in mineral spirits.
>
> "Allingham II, Thomas J" > wrote:
>>
>>  Steve:  Do you put them up on the stand every 100 miles or so for the 
>> purpose of checking the tires, or some other reason?  (Or, I guess, both.)  
>> Mine don’t get up on a stand anywhere near that often, and I’m wondering if 
>> I’m missing something I should be doing.  Tom
>>
>>  
>>
>>  *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Steve 
>> Palincsar
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:02 PM
>> *To:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders
>>
>>   
>>
>> I put my bikes up on a work stand every 100 miles or so. I can see the 
>> back tire just fine then and check condition at that time.
>>
>>  Jan Heine > wrote:
>>
>>  When I was a poor college student, I tended to ride tires until they 
>> were threadbare. (Or should that be "tread-bare"?) Then I realized that the 
>> cost of emergency room visits far exceeds the cost of even the most 
>> expensive FMB tubulars (not that I was riding those). To say nothing about 
>> the cost of patches and aggravation of fixing more flats as the tires get 
>> thin and worn. I started replacing my tires when they started getting more 
>> flats than usual and felt thin when I took them off the rim.
>>
>> Sheldon's point was that if you run your tires down until they blow out, 
>> you'd be better off with a rear blowout. My point is that you don't want 
>> any blowouts. It's not worth risking an accident to squeeze the last dollar 
>> or two of life out of your tire. 
>>
>> So I recommend replacing your tires before they blow out. To do that, you 
>> need to keep an eye on them. If you have fenders, you don't ever see the 
>> rear tire tread unless you lay down the bike or remo ve the wheel. Thus, I 
>> recommended putting the new tire on the rear. The front tire is always 
>> visible - even with full fenders. Thus, you'll see when the tread pattern 
>> disappears, and you'll definitely see if the casing shows through the 
>> rubber. And obviously, when the front tire is thin, check the rear one, 
>> too! 
>>
>> Please don't try to set mileage records, but be reasonable. You don't 
>> drive your car and try to see how many miles you can squeeze out of a tank 
>> of gas when you go through Death Valley, either. You fill up at the gas 
>> station with the sign "Last gas for 180 miles" and then enjoy the scenery 
>> without worrying about whether you'll make it back to civilization on the 
>> last drop of gas.
>>
>> These days, I just replace each tire individually when it gets worn. 
>> Currently, the new tire is on the front, but once the rear tire gets worn, 
>> there will be a newer tire on the rear.
>>
>> Jan Heine
>> Editor
>> Bicycle Quarterly
>> www.bikequarterly.com
>>
>>  
>>
> -- 
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>

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RE: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

I like to clean and re-lube the chain every 100 mi or so. The tire check takes 
place while the chain dries from its soak in mineral spirits.

"Allingham II, Thomas J"  wrote:

>Steve:  Do you put them up on the stand every 100 miles or so for the
>purpose of checking the tires, or some other reason?  (Or, I guess,
>both.)  Mine don’t get up on a stand anywhere near that often, and I’m
>wondering if I’m missing something I should be doing.  Tom
>
>From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
>Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:02 PM
>To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders
>
>I put my bikes up on a work stand every 100 miles or so. I can see the
>back tire just fine then and check condition at that time.
>Jan Heine mailto:hein...@earthlink.net>> wrote:
>When I was a poor college student, I tended to ride tires until they
>were threadbare. (Or should that be "tread-bare"?) Then I realized that
>the cost of emergency room visits far exceeds the cost of even the most
>expensive FMB tubulars (not that I was riding those). To say nothing
>about the cost of patches and aggravation of fixing more flats as the
>tires get thin and worn. I started replacing my tires when they started
>getting more flats than usual and felt thin when I took them off the
>rim.
>
>Sheldon's point was that if you run your tires down until they blow
>out, you'd be better off with a rear blowout. My point is that you
>don't want any blowouts. It's not worth risking an accident to squeeze
>the last dollar or two of life out of your tire.
>
>So I recommend replacing your tires before they blow out. To do that,
>you need to keep an eye on them. If you have fenders, you don't ever
>see the rear tire tread unless you lay down the bike or remo ve the
>wheel. Thus, I recommended putting the new tire on the rear. The front
>tire is always visible - even with full fenders. Thus, you'll see when
>the tread pattern disappears, and you'll definitely see if the casing
>shows through the rubber. And obviously, when the front tire is thin,
>check the rear one, too!
>
>Please don't try to set mileage records, but be reasonable. You don't
>drive your car and try to see how many miles you can squeeze out of a
>tank of gas when you go through Death Valley, either. You fill up at
>the gas station with the sign "Last gas for 180 miles" and then enjoy
>the scenery without worrying about whether you'll make it back to
>civilization on the last drop of gas.
>
>These days, I just replace each tire individually when it gets worn.
>Currently, the new tire is on the front, but once the rear tire gets
>worn, there will be a newer tire on the rear.
>
>Jan Heine
>Editor
>Bicycle Quarterly
>www.bikequarterly.com<http://www.bikequarterly.com>
>
>--
>Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>--
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>Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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RE: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Steve:  Do you put them up on the stand every 100 miles or so for the purpose 
of checking the tires, or some other reason?  (Or, I guess, both.)  Mine don’t 
get up on a stand anywhere near that often, and I’m wondering if I’m missing 
something I should be doing.  Tom

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:02 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

I put my bikes up on a work stand every 100 miles or so. I can see the back 
tire just fine then and check condition at that time.
Jan Heine mailto:hein...@earthlink.net>> wrote:
When I was a poor college student, I tended to ride tires until they were 
threadbare. (Or should that be "tread-bare"?) Then I realized that the cost of 
emergency room visits far exceeds the cost of even the most expensive FMB 
tubulars (not that I was riding those). To say nothing about the cost of 
patches and aggravation of fixing more flats as the tires get thin and worn. I 
started replacing my tires when they started getting more flats than usual and 
felt thin when I took them off the rim.

Sheldon's point was that if you run your tires down until they blow out, you'd 
be better off with a rear blowout. My point is that you don't want any 
blowouts. It's not worth risking an accident to squeeze the last dollar or two 
of life out of your tire.

So I recommend replacing your tires before they blow out. To do that, you need 
to keep an eye on them. If you have fenders, you don't ever see the rear tire 
tread unless you lay down the bike or remo ve the wheel. Thus, I recommended 
putting the new tire on the rear. The front tire is always visible - even with 
full fenders. Thus, you'll see when the tread pattern disappears, and you'll 
definitely see if the casing shows through the rubber. And obviously, when the 
front tire is thin, check the rear one, too!

Please don't try to set mileage records, but be reasonable. You don't drive 
your car and try to see how many miles you can squeeze out of a tank of gas 
when you go through Death Valley, either. You fill up at the gas station with 
the sign "Last gas for 180 miles" and then enjoy the scenery without worrying 
about whether you'll make it back to civilization on the last drop of gas.

These days, I just replace each tire individually when it gets worn. Currently, 
the new tire is on the front, but once the rear tire gets worn, there will be a 
newer tire on the rear.

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
www.bikequarterly.com<http://www.bikequarterly.com>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

That is what I got from the last one I replaced. Amazed me too. I checkef my 
records several times.

'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:

>Steve, I may owe you an apology.  Re-reading your post I may have 
>misunderstood.  If you were saying you got roughly 6,500+ miles out of
>the 
>tire I won't dispute that.  If that is what you meant, than that is
>pretty 
>impressive for what is probably the most comfortable tire out there. 
>Not a 
>bad value at $57 either.So ... sorry if I misunderstood. I thought
>you 
>were messing with me.
>
>Matt
>
>On Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:59:12 PM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote:
>>
>> Jim, that's what I meant about him being stubborn.  He was not adding
>any 
>> value to the conversation.  He was just trolling.  He did not get
>that kind 
>> of mileage.
>>
>> On Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:07:48 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>>
>>> What 
>>>
>>> ??
>>>
>>> You must be much lighter than I.  The Cypres on the rear wheel was
>worn 
>>> through to the threads after 1000 miles for me.
>>> On Aug 15, 2014 2:55 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
>>>
 On 08/15/2014 05:32 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

> And how long would a "rear" Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre last on a
>30+ 
> lbs. Sam Hillborne committing 35 miles RT five days a week?  How
>much do 
> they cost?
>

 The last one I discarded went on the front at 13,229 miles, was
>switched 
 to the rear at 16,914 and was discarded at 19,815 miles.  A new one
>today 
 costs $57.  A Hetre will last longer than that, I believe (although
>I have 
 not chased down the mileage and done the math) and costs two bucks
>more.  
  I can't tell you how long a tire lasts as "a rear" because I don't
>use 
 them that way, other than for the first set when the bikes were
>new; and 
 it's been quite a few miles since these bikes were new.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Steve, I may owe you an apology.  Re-reading your post I may have 
misunderstood.  If you were saying you got roughly 6,500+ miles out of the 
tire I won't dispute that.  If that is what you meant, than that is pretty 
impressive for what is probably the most comfortable tire out there.  Not a 
bad value at $57 either.So ... sorry if I misunderstood. I thought you 
were messing with me.

Matt

On Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:59:12 PM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote:
>
> Jim, that's what I meant about him being stubborn.  He was not adding any 
> value to the conversation.  He was just trolling.  He did not get that kind 
> of mileage.
>
> On Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:07:48 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>> What 
>>
>> ??
>>
>> You must be much lighter than I.  The Cypres on the rear wheel was worn 
>> through to the threads after 1000 miles for me.
>> On Aug 15, 2014 2:55 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/15/2014 05:32 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>>>
 And how long would a "rear" Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre last on a 30+ 
 lbs. Sam Hillborne committing 35 miles RT five days a week?  How much do 
 they cost?

>>>
>>> The last one I discarded went on the front at 13,229 miles, was switched 
>>> to the rear at 16,914 and was discarded at 19,815 miles.  A new one today 
>>> costs $57.  A Hetre will last longer than that, I believe (although I have 
>>> not chased down the mileage and done the math) and costs two bucks more.  
>>>  I can't tell you how long a tire lasts as "a rear" because I don't use 
>>> them that way, other than for the first set when the bikes were new; and 
>>> it's been quite a few miles since these bikes were new.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

I put my bikes up on a work stand every 100 miles or so. I can see the back 
tire just fine then and check condition at that time.

Jan Heine  wrote:

>When I was a poor college student, I tended to ride tires until they
>were 
>threadbare. (Or should that be "tread-bare"?) Then I realized that the
>cost 
>of emergency room visits far exceeds the cost of even the most
>expensive 
>FMB tubulars (not that I was riding those). To say nothing about the
>cost 
>of patches and aggravation of fixing more flats as the tires get thin
>and 
>worn. I started replacing my tires when they started getting more flats
>
>than usual and felt thin when I took them off the rim.
>
>Sheldon's point was that if you run your tires down until they blow
>out, 
>you'd be better off with a rear blowout. My point is that you don't
>want 
>any blowouts. It's not worth risking an accident to squeeze the last
>dollar 
>or two of life out of your tire. 
>
>So I recommend replacing your tires before they blow out. To do that,
>you 
>need to keep an eye on them. If you have fenders, you don't ever see
>the 
>rear tire tread unless you lay down the bike or remove the wheel. Thus,
>I 
>recommended putting the new tire on the rear. The front tire is always 
>visible - even with full fenders. Thus, you'll see when the tread
>pattern 
>disappears, and you'll definitely see if the casing shows through the 
>rubber. And obviously, when the front tire is thin, check the rear one,
>
>too! 
>
>Please don't try to set mileage records, but be reasonable. You don't
>drive 
>your car and try to see how many miles you can squeeze out of a tank of
>gas 
>when you go through Death Valley, either. You fill up at the gas
>station 
>with the sign "Last gas for 180 miles" and then enjoy the scenery
>without 
>worrying about whether you'll make it back to civilization on the last
>drop 
>of gas.
>
>These days, I just replace each tire individually when it gets worn. 
>Currently, the new tire is on the front, but once the rear tire gets
>worn, 
>there will be a newer tire on the rear.
>
>Jan Heine
>Editor
>Bicycle Quarterly
>www.bikequarterly.com
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

I am but 200 lb, sylph-like by comparison. Also. Note install new on front and 
move front to rear.

Jim Bronson  wrote:

>Not very long!
>
>Cypres lasted less than 1000 miles on the rear for me in randonneuring
>usage on smooth roads .  Granted, I am tall and heavy, roughly 260 lbs.
>But I would I would predict a similar life on a loaded commuting bike,
>not
>to mention the additional road hazards in commuting.
>
>*All that being said, the Cypres was my first foray into light supple
>tires
>and I loved them.
>
>The Compass tires I have now are much better though, I got about 2500
>miles
>out of the first rear tire and the initial front tire is still going. 
>The
>rear was actually still fine but I replaced it for precautionary
>reasons,
>it was getting pretty worn in the middle.
>On Aug 15, 2014 2:32 PM, "'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
>rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> And how long would a "rear" Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre last on a 30+
>lbs.
>> Sam Hillborne committing 35 miles RT five days a week?  How much do
>they
>> cost?
>>
>> On Friday, August 15, 2014 2:24:53 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>>
>>>  On 08/15/2014 05:17 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>>>
>>>  It's really no extra effort at all.  When I have the wheels off the
>>> bike to re-lube the wheel bearings I rotate the tires.  I suppose I
>like to
>>> do this because I am not locked into a specific tire and enjoy
>matched sets.
>>>
>>>
>>> whereas when I find a tire I like (e.g., the Grand Bois Cypres and
>Hetre)
>>> I stay with them year after year.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 15, 2014 1:07:02 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

 On 08/15/2014 03:47 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
 > Anne,
 >
 > I'll agree that Sheldon's philosophy is applicable to some tires,
>but
 > I think it's safe to squeeze in a couple/three rotations on these
 > Schwalbe's.
 >

 Why would you want to go to that extra effort?  You end up with the
>same
 result following Sheldon's "new to front, front to rear" method
>with far
 less shuffling.

>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jim, that's what I meant about him being stubborn.  He was not adding any 
value to the conversation.  He was just trolling.  He did not get that kind 
of mileage.

On Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:07:48 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> What 
>
> ??
>
> You must be much lighter than I.  The Cypres on the rear wheel was worn 
> through to the threads after 1000 miles for me.
> On Aug 15, 2014 2:55 PM, "Steve Palincsar" > 
> wrote:
>
>> On 08/15/2014 05:32 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>>
>>> And how long would a "rear" Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre last on a 30+ 
>>> lbs. Sam Hillborne committing 35 miles RT five days a week?  How much do 
>>> they cost?
>>>
>>
>> The last one I discarded went on the front at 13,229 miles, was switched 
>> to the rear at 16,914 and was discarded at 19,815 miles.  A new one today 
>> costs $57.  A Hetre will last longer than that, I believe (although I have 
>> not chased down the mileage and done the math) and costs two bucks more.  
>>  I can't tell you how long a tire lasts as "a rear" because I don't use 
>> them that way, other than for the first set when the bikes were new; and 
>> it's been quite a few miles since these bikes were new.
>>
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Jan Heine]

When I was a poor college student, I tended to ride tires until they were 
threadbare. (Or should that be "tread-bare"?) Then I realized that the cost 
of emergency room visits far exceeds the cost of even the most expensive 
FMB tubulars (not that I was riding those). To say nothing about the cost 
of patches and aggravation of fixing more flats as the tires get thin and 
worn. I started replacing my tires when they started getting more flats 
than usual and felt thin when I took them off the rim.

Sheldon's point was that if you run your tires down until they blow out, 
you'd be better off with a rear blowout. My point is that you don't want 
any blowouts. It's not worth risking an accident to squeeze the last dollar 
or two of life out of your tire. 

So I recommend replacing your tires before they blow out. To do that, you 
need to keep an eye on them. If you have fenders, you don't ever see the 
rear tire tread unless you lay down the bike or remove the wheel. Thus, I 
recommended putting the new tire on the rear. The front tire is always 
visible - even with full fenders. Thus, you'll see when the tread pattern 
disappears, and you'll definitely see if the casing shows through the 
rubber. And obviously, when the front tire is thin, check the rear one, 
too! 

Please don't try to set mileage records, but be reasonable. You don't drive 
your car and try to see how many miles you can squeeze out of a tank of gas 
when you go through Death Valley, either. You fill up at the gas station 
with the sign "Last gas for 180 miles" and then enjoy the scenery without 
worrying about whether you'll make it back to civilization on the last drop 
of gas.

These days, I just replace each tire individually when it gets worn. 
Currently, the new tire is on the front, but once the rear tire gets worn, 
there will be a newer tire on the rear.

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
www.bikequarterly.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Patrick Moore]

Gad, I'd not put the most worn in front! How does covering the weak tire
with a fender make it easier to monitor?


On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 10:02 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Steve - Since you choose to be stubborn, I'll venture to say one would
> last between 2 to 3,000 miles.  If that is the case, and we are still
> talking about the virtues of safely rotating tires, it is my opinion that a
> Schwalbe Marathon Supreme with 5, 6  or maybe even 7,000 miles is as safe
> on the front as a new Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre.  This is really an apples
> to oranges comparison.  And, if we all were to follow Jan's
> recommendations, he specifically states that those using fenders should put
> the most worn tire up front so that is will be easier to keep any eye on
> the weakest tires condition.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, August 15, 2014 2:55:11 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> On 08/15/2014 05:32 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>> > And how long would a "rear" Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre last on a 30+
>> > lbs. Sam Hillborne committing 35 miles RT five days a week?  How much
>> > do they cost?
>>
>> The last one I discarded went on the front at 13,229 miles, was switched
>> to the rear at 16,914 and was discarded at 19,815 miles.  A new one
>> today costs $57.  A Hetre will last longer than that, I believe
>> (although I have not chased down the mileage and done the math) and
>> costs two bucks more.   I can't tell you how long a tire lasts as "a
>> rear" because I don't use them that way, other than for the first set
>> when the bikes were new; and it's been quite a few miles since these
>> bikes were new.
>>
>>
>>  --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Jim Bronson]

What

??

You must be much lighter than I.  The Cypres on the rear wheel was worn
through to the threads after 1000 miles for me.
On Aug 15, 2014 2:55 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:

> On 08/15/2014 05:32 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>
>> And how long would a "rear" Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre last on a 30+ lbs.
>> Sam Hillborne committing 35 miles RT five days a week?  How much do they
>> cost?
>>
>
> The last one I discarded went on the front at 13,229 miles, was switched
> to the rear at 16,914 and was discarded at 19,815 miles.  A new one today
> costs $57.  A Hetre will last longer than that, I believe (although I have
> not chased down the mileage and done the math) and costs two bucks more.
>  I can't tell you how long a tire lasts as "a rear" because I don't use
> them that way, other than for the first set when the bikes were new; and
> it's been quite a few miles since these bikes were new.
>
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Jim Bronson]

Not very long!

Cypres lasted less than 1000 miles on the rear for me in randonneuring
usage on smooth roads .  Granted, I am tall and heavy, roughly 260 lbs.
But I would I would predict a similar life on a loaded commuting bike, not
to mention the additional road hazards in commuting.

*All that being said, the Cypres was my first foray into light supple tires
and I loved them.

The Compass tires I have now are much better though, I got about 2500 miles
out of the first rear tire and the initial front tire is still going.  The
rear was actually still fine but I replaced it for precautionary reasons,
it was getting pretty worn in the middle.
On Aug 15, 2014 2:32 PM, "'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> And how long would a "rear" Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre last on a 30+ lbs.
> Sam Hillborne committing 35 miles RT five days a week?  How much do they
> cost?
>
> On Friday, August 15, 2014 2:24:53 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>>  On 08/15/2014 05:17 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>>
>>  It's really no extra effort at all.  When I have the wheels off the
>> bike to re-lube the wheel bearings I rotate the tires.  I suppose I like to
>> do this because I am not locked into a specific tire and enjoy matched sets.
>>
>>
>> whereas when I find a tire I like (e.g., the Grand Bois Cypres and Hetre)
>> I stay with them year after year.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, August 15, 2014 1:07:02 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>>
>>> On 08/15/2014 03:47 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>>> > Anne,
>>> >
>>> > I'll agree that Sheldon's philosophy is applicable to some tires, but
>>> > I think it's safe to squeeze in a couple/three rotations on these
>>> > Schwalbe's.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Why would you want to go to that extra effort?  You end up with the same
>>> result following Sheldon's "new to front, front to rear" method with far
>>> less shuffling.
>>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Steve - Since you choose to be stubborn, I'll venture to say one would last 
between 2 to 3,000 miles.  If that is the case, and we are still talking 
about the virtues of safely rotating tires, it is my opinion that a 
Schwalbe Marathon Supreme with 5, 6  or maybe even 7,000 miles is as safe 
on the front as a new Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre.  This is really an apples 
to oranges comparison.  And, if we all were to follow Jan's 
recommendations, he specifically states that those using fenders should put 
the most worn tire up front so that is will be easier to keep any eye on 
the weakest tires condition.





On Friday, August 15, 2014 2:55:11 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On 08/15/2014 05:32 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: 
> > And how long would a "rear" Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre last on a 30+ 
> > lbs. Sam Hillborne committing 35 miles RT five days a week?  How much 
> > do they cost? 
>
> The last one I discarded went on the front at 13,229 miles, was switched 
> to the rear at 16,914 and was discarded at 19,815 miles.  A new one 
> today costs $57.  A Hetre will last longer than that, I believe 
> (although I have not chased down the mileage and done the math) and 
> costs two bucks more.   I can't tell you how long a tire lasts as "a 
> rear" because I don't use them that way, other than for the first set 
> when the bikes were new; and it's been quite a few miles since these 
> bikes were new. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/15/2014 05:32 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
And how long would a "rear" Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre last on a 30+ 
lbs. Sam Hillborne committing 35 miles RT five days a week?  How much 
do they cost?


The last one I discarded went on the front at 13,229 miles, was switched 
to the rear at 16,914 and was discarded at 19,815 miles.  A new one 
today costs $57.  A Hetre will last longer than that, I believe 
(although I have not chased down the mileage and done the math) and 
costs two bucks more.   I can't tell you how long a tire lasts as "a 
rear" because I don't use them that way, other than for the first set 
when the bikes were new; and it's been quite a few miles since these 
bikes were new.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

And how long would a "rear" Grand Bois Cypres or Hetre last on a 30+ lbs. 
Sam Hillborne committing 35 miles RT five days a week?  How much do they 
cost?

On Friday, August 15, 2014 2:24:53 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>  On 08/15/2014 05:17 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>  
>  It's really no extra effort at all.  When I have the wheels off the bike 
> to re-lube the wheel bearings I rotate the tires.  I suppose I like to do 
> this because I am not locked into a specific tire and enjoy matched sets.
>  
>
> whereas when I find a tire I like (e.g., the Grand Bois Cypres and Hetre) 
> I stay with them year after year.   
>
>
>  
> On Friday, August 15, 2014 1:07:02 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: 
>>
>> On 08/15/2014 03:47 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: 
>> > Anne, 
>> > 
>> > I'll agree that Sheldon's philosophy is applicable to some tires, but 
>> > I think it's safe to squeeze in a couple/three rotations on these 
>> > Schwalbe's. 
>> > 
>>
>> Why would you want to go to that extra effort?  You end up with the same 
>> result following Sheldon's "new to front, front to rear" method with far 
>> less shuffling. 
>>
>  
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/15/2014 05:17 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
It's really no extra effort at all.  When I have the wheels off the 
bike to re-lube the wheel bearings I rotate the tires.  I suppose I 
like to do this because I am not locked into a specific tire and enjoy 
matched sets.


whereas when I find a tire I like (e.g., the Grand Bois Cypres and 
Hetre) I stay with them year after year.





On Friday, August 15, 2014 1:07:02 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

On 08/15/2014 03:47 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
> Anne,
>
> I'll agree that Sheldon's philosophy is applicable to some
tires, but
> I think it's safe to squeeze in a couple/three rotations on these
> Schwalbe's.
>

Why would you want to go to that extra effort?  You end up with
the same
result following Sheldon's "new to front, front to rear" method
with far
less shuffling.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

It's really no extra effort at all.  When I have the wheels off the bike to 
re-lube the wheel bearings I rotate the tires.  I suppose I like to do this 
because I am not locked into a specific tire and enjoy matched sets.

On Friday, August 15, 2014 1:07:02 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On 08/15/2014 03:47 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: 
> > Anne, 
> > 
> > I'll agree that Sheldon's philosophy is applicable to some tires, but 
> > I think it's safe to squeeze in a couple/three rotations on these 
> > Schwalbe's. 
> > 
>
> Why would you want to go to that extra effort?  You end up with the same 
> result following Sheldon's "new to front, front to rear" method with far 
> less shuffling. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/15/2014 04:10 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
Because theoretically you end up with the 2 tires wearing out at the 
same time, thus avoiding the annoyance of being left with an unusable 
rear and a usable front.


And when you're getting there, you have a nearly worn through, squared 
off tire up front and in back?  No thanks!   Unless you are an 
inveterate tire-hopper or are planning to quit using that bike when 
those two tires wear out, you just put the usable tire in the back and 
put a new one just like it on the front, and life continues to be good.  
Where's the annoyance in that?


Well, if you insist on matchy-matchy and your tire company keeps 
changing the look of the tires, I suppose you could end up throwing away 
a perfectly usable tire.  I suffered for a couple of thousand miles with 
a yellow Axial Carbon in back and a gray Pro2Race in front on that 
account, and it did make me grit my teeth every time I looked at the 
bike.  But I persevered, and eventually did wear that yellow-stripe tire 
out.


Of course, I don't use armored Schwalbe tires, either...





On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Steve Palincsar > wrote:


On 08/15/2014 03:47 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

Anne,

I'll agree that Sheldon's philosophy is applicable to some
tires, but I think it's safe to squeeze in a couple/three
rotations on these Schwalbe's.


Why would you want to go to that extra effort?  You end up with
the same result following Sheldon's "new to front, front to rear"
method with far less shuffling.




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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Patrick Moore]

Because theoretically you end up with the 2 tires wearing out at the same
time, thus avoiding the annoyance of being left with an unusable rear and a
usable front.


On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> On 08/15/2014 03:47 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>
>> Anne,
>>
>> I'll agree that Sheldon's philosophy is applicable to some tires, but I
>> think it's safe to squeeze in a couple/three rotations on these Schwalbe's.
>>
>>
> Why would you want to go to that extra effort?  You end up with the same
> result following Sheldon's "new to front, front to rear" method with far
> less shuffling.
>
>
>
> --
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-- 
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*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
* "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
"Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood  *

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Patrick Moore]

Having had rapid deflations on front tires while riding, I have to say that
I want the best tire in front. I like to buy tires in 3s -- wear out the
rear, move the front to the rear, add the 3d tire to the front, place a new
order. Repeat as needed.

Yes, you will, or at least, may, eventually, down the line, end up with a
single, partially worn tire, but IMO the risk avoided makes that acceptable.


On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 1:47 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Anne,
>
> I'll agree that Sheldon's philosophy is applicable to some tires, but I
> think it's safe to squeeze in a couple/three rotations on these Schwalbe's.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
-- 
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*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
* "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
"Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood  *

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/15/2014 03:47 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

Anne,

I'll agree that Sheldon's philosophy is applicable to some tires, but 
I think it's safe to squeeze in a couple/three rotations on these 
Schwalbe's.




Why would you want to go to that extra effort?  You end up with the same 
result following Sheldon's "new to front, front to rear" method with far 
less shuffling.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Anne,

I'll agree that Sheldon's philosophy is applicable to some tires, but I 
think it's safe to squeeze in a couple/three rotations on these Schwalbe's.

Matt


On Friday, August 15, 2014 9:43:52 AM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> I adhere to Sheldon "Put the good one in front" Brown's philosophy 
> about rotating tires: don't do it. As he explains, you don't want to 
> take the more worn-out rear tire and put it on front, because you 
> don't want front flats. Having a front tire and a rear tire equally 
> worn out is not a goal worth pursuing. As he further explains, it's 
> safer to put the somewhat worn front tire on the rear when the rear 
> tire wears out, replacing the front tire with a new one. 
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-rotation.html 
>
> Sheldon is gone and sorely missed, but his good advice stays with us. 
> Sadly, his Chain Cleaning System is no longer available: 
> http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html 
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 9:34 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch 
> > wrote: 
> > As of today I have 9,340 commuter miles on my 700x35 Schwalbe Marathon 
> > Supremes.  These tires have been rotated front to back three times.  I 
> will 
> > not rotate again, but it has become somewhat of a game to see how far 
> these 
> > tires will go.  Also worth noting:  I had 5 flats in the 1st 2,000 miles 
> > running 80 psi front and rear.  Since than, I've run a max of 50 front 
> and 
> > 60 rear.  Knocking on wood as I type...I haven't had a flat since. 
>  That's 
> > over 7,000 flat free smiles. 
> > 
> > Matt 
> > 
> > -- 
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>
>
>
> -- 
> -- Anne Paulson 
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Anne Paulson]

I adhere to Sheldon "Put the good one in front" Brown's philosophy
about rotating tires: don't do it. As he explains, you don't want to
take the more worn-out rear tire and put it on front, because you
don't want front flats. Having a front tire and a rear tire equally
worn out is not a goal worth pursuing. As he further explains, it's
safer to put the somewhat worn front tire on the rear when the rear
tire wears out, replacing the front tire with a new one.

http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-rotation.html

Sheldon is gone and sorely missed, but his good advice stays with us.
Sadly, his Chain Cleaning System is no longer available:
http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 9:34 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch
 wrote:
> As of today I have 9,340 commuter miles on my 700x35 Schwalbe Marathon
> Supremes.  These tires have been rotated front to back three times.  I will
> not rotate again, but it has become somewhat of a game to see how far these
> tires will go.  Also worth noting:  I had 5 flats in the 1st 2,000 miles
> running 80 psi front and rear.  Since than, I've run a max of 50 front and
> 60 rear.  Knocking on wood as I type...I haven't had a flat since.  That's
> over 7,000 flat free smiles.
>
> Matt
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

As of today I have 9,340 commuter miles on my 700x35 Schwalbe Marathon 
Supremes.  These tires have been rotated front to back three times.  I will 
not rotate again, but it has become somewhat of a game to see how far these 
tires will go.  Also worth noting:  I had 5 flats in the 1st 2,000 miles 
running 80 psi front and rear.  Since than, I've run a max of 50 front and 
60 rear.  Knocking on wood as I type...I haven't had a flat since.  That's 
over 7,000 flat free smiles.

Matt

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[RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[dougP]

Leaving that Marathon Supreme on the front was out of character.  Normally 
when the rear wears out, I put a new tire on the front and move the old 
front to the rear.  Rough guess is that rears wear twice as fast as fronts, 
so normally the front is in better shape.  Rear flats, while a nuisance, 
are less likely to cause crashes than flat fronts.  My experience with 
Schwalbes & flats is similar to yours, i.e., once in a long while.  

I currently have the Soma C-lines on my Atlantis for general riding.  They 
are noticeably more cushy than even the Marathon Supreme, but I doubt the 
life will be anything close.  With about 1,500 miles on them, I recently 
got my first flat. A goathead thorn was the culprit.  I've picked numerous 
goatheads out of Marathons that have not flatted.  For a tour I would 
change to Marathons.  

dougP

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 6:51:28 AM UTC-7, MobileBill wrote:
>
> Seems like a good time to note that in 19,500 miles I have worn out three 
> Schwalbe Marathons (not three sets, three tires -- the fourth tire is still 
> in service). And it's not that the tires weren't still riding fine, I just 
> got a little nervous when the undertread started peaking through. If I kept 
> the front tires on the front, rather than rotating to back, they'd easily 
> run 12,000+. So I don't quite know how to figure the mileage, but I got my 
> money's worth. 
> I am tempted to try other lighter, more flexible, and more fashionable 
> tires on my Saluki, but ... I've had three flats in 19,500 miles on regular 
> ol marathons, and  I commute on nasty roads  ... and after three thousand 
> or so miles, my Marathons have lost a lot of weight and and gained perhaps 
> a bit of flexibility, so for the next 5,000 miles I like to pretend I have 
> a reasonable facsimile of a Compass tire ... 
>
> On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:18:25 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote:
>>
>> The Blug has some interesting photos of a Schwalbe Marathon that went 
>> 14,000 miles.  There's no tread left on the center, so it pretty much 
>> earned its keep a while back, IMHO.  BUT, at the end of story, Rivendell 
>> says "Anybody who buys a Marathon Plus from us and rides it 14,000 miles 
>> gets a free replacement."  Save those proofs-of-purchase!  
>>
>> I don't doubt the mileage.  I got 11,000 miles out of a Supreme on the 
>> front on my Atlantis.  It looked better than the tire in the photo when I 
>> changed it.  I don't try to squeeze the last mile out of my tires, 
>> especially the front.  Tire life is highly variable, depending on width, 
>> load such as rider weight & use, nice pavement vs off-road, etc.  
>>
>> So if you pile on the miles, now you know the best source for tires.  
>>
>> dougP
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[MobileBill]

Seems like a good time to note that in 19,500 miles I have worn out three 
Schwalbe Marathons (not three sets, three tires -- the fourth tire is still 
in service). And it's not that the tires weren't still riding fine, I just 
got a little nervous when the undertread started peaking through. If I kept 
the front tires on the front, rather than rotating to back, they'd easily 
run 12,000+. So I don't quite know how to figure the mileage, but I got my 
money's worth. 
I am tempted to try other lighter, more flexible, and more fashionable 
tires on my Saluki, but ... I've had three flats in 19,500 miles on regular 
ol marathons, and  I commute on nasty roads  ... and after three thousand 
or so miles, my Marathons have lost a lot of weight and and gained perhaps 
a bit of flexibility, so for the next 5,000 miles I like to pretend I have 
a reasonable facsimile of a Compass tire ... 

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 5:18:25 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote:
>
> The Blug has some interesting photos of a Schwalbe Marathon that went 
> 14,000 miles.  There's no tread left on the center, so it pretty much 
> earned its keep a while back, IMHO.  BUT, at the end of story, Rivendell 
> says "Anybody who buys a Marathon Plus from us and rides it 14,000 miles 
> gets a free replacement."  Save those proofs-of-purchase!  
>
> I don't doubt the mileage.  I got 11,000 miles out of a Supreme on the 
> front on my Atlantis.  It looked better than the tire in the photo when I 
> changed it.  I don't try to squeeze the last mile out of my tires, 
> especially the front.  Tire life is highly variable, depending on width, 
> load such as rider weight & use, nice pavement vs off-road, etc.  
>
> So if you pile on the miles, now you know the best source for tires.  
>
> dougP
>

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[RBW] Re: Attn: Big mileage riders

[Mike]

Love it! And I love my Schwalbe tires, especially the standard Marathons. I 
have 32s, 35s, 38s and even some 47s. I think between all the tires I've 
had a combined number of flats that's less than 10 over 5yrs. I've also got 
some Supremes and while they're nice… I don't know, I grown to love the 38s 
that are on my LHT right now. 

Oh, and I have Big Bens on my Big Dummy and they're great. May have to 
invest in some Little Big Bens just to try them out on my LHT.

--mike

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