Re: [RE-wrenches] REC Twin Peak 305/310/315/320

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Daryl, check SunElec in FL.  I got one from them. Chris

On 6/18/2024 7:11 AM, Daryl DeJoy via RE-wrenches wrote:
I have a client who dropped a tree on his array and I need to replace 
a single module. If anyone has one, used or otherwise, please contact 
me off list. I'd be happy to find one.


Thank you,
Daryl DeJoy
NABCEP Certified PVIP since 2006
Island Energy Storage
(207) 479-2252

 
	Virus-free.www.avast.com 
 




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

The reason for less white PV wire I believe is due to less UV resistance 
capability.  Time showed that it was inferior to black.  Using black in 
lieu of white, and color coding at the terminal connections is an 
allowed practice and that is why less white PV wire is used I believe.  
Chris


On 6/5/2024 4:22 PM, Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches wrote:


White PV wire was something we used to sell often, but that demand has 
dropped off in the last 5 years or so and always wondered why.


Thanks for sharing William

Sunny Regards,

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

**

*Bryan Norkunas *

*PV-Cables Inc. *

*989 Milton Ave Ste 1D*

*Ferndale CA 95536***

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com 

Please print only if necessary.

NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of 
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distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy all 
copies of the original message.



*From:* RE-wrenches  on 
behalf of William Miller via RE-wrenches 


*Sent:* Wednesday, June 5, 2024 12:53:52 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* William Miller 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

Friends:

On a related subject, I was researching the question: What color 
should my grounded PV conductor be?


History:

In the beginning, negative leads were always black.

When it became apparent that negative PV leads were indeed grounded, 
the requirement to have them white or grey became enforced per 
200.6(A)(3).


When transformerless inverters were implemented it was assumed the 
negative was floating, so white/grey was no longer acceptable.


Then the NEC recognized that some leads were kind of grounded, not 
solidly, but through some components, either OCPD, resistors, sensor 
or a combination.  A new term was created,  functionally grounded.  
This grounding was most often done to implement ground fault detection 
and interruption, or GFDI.  I always assumed that if PV equipment had 
GFDI it had to feature a grounded polarity, most often indirectly, or 
functionally.


Grounded conductors need to be white or grey.  Therefore we are back 
to needing grey/white, most often for the negative lead.


I wanted to verify if the Sol-Arc PV inputs established a grounded 
lead.  They have GFDI so I assumed it likely they did.  In order to 
verify, I called Sol-Arc.  Their tech support had no idea what I was 
talking about.  They did not know the term functionally grounded and 
could not verify if their equipment established a ground connection, 
solid or otherwise, to either polarity.


This distinction applies here because it may help determine what is 
causing the GFDI fault.  I can’t tell you for sure if one side of the 
PV circuit is functionally grounded, but if it is, grounding it 
elsewhere will defeat the GFDI and may cause nuisance tripping.


Does anyone know if Sol-Arc PV inputs have a functional ground bond?

Side note:  I called my local Greentech distributor, who sells plenty 
of Sol-Arc inverters and asked if they carried white PV wire.  They 
said none of their customers are asking for white PV wire.  I suspect 
they should be using white for negative leads.  I can’t confirm that 
because Sol-Arc can’t tell me it the PV circuits are functionally 
grounded or not.  Frustrating!


Fortunately the manual for Outback charge controllers specifically 
says the negative lead is functionally grounded.  So if you are 
installing Outback CCs you must use white or grey.  PV-Cables sells 
white PV wire.


Confusing? Yeah, a bit.  But as my local roofing companies say: 
“Solar?  It can’t be that complicated!”


William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com 

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:02 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Jason Szumlanski
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual?

"GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG 
wire"


Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor 
to the grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the 
suggested place to connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why 
does it make a difference? It would still be electrically bonded to 
the grounding terminal in the inverter.


I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding 
conductor from the array connected to the ground terminal in the 
inverter at a home. I am getting an F08 GFDI fault. The manual 

Re: [RE-wrenches] IRS Audit

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Qualified equipment I think would be it's UL certification.  I have 
never run into this issue though.  Chris


On 6/3/2024 4:53 PM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via RE-wrenches wrote:


Yes and no,  We had the IRS send an agent to one of our clients Ranch, 
and they asked to see the equipment but did not request any further 
documentation.


Pieter Huebner

*From:*RE-wrenches  *On 
Behalf Of *rick--- via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Monday, June 3, 2024 2:23 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* r...@solshineenergy.com
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] IRS Audit

Wrenches,

Has anyone had a customer that was being audited and requesting a 
manufacturers’ certification statement for their PV equipment?  The 
only manufacturer that has been able to provide a statement has been 
REC. I’m attaching a copy for reference. Is there an assumption that 
most equipment qualifies? The IRS definition for “qualified solar 
electric property” is pretty vague -


 "/Qualified solar electric property expenditure. The term "qualified 
solar electric property expenditure" means an expenditure for property 
which uses solar energy to generate electricity for use in a dwelling 
unit located in the United States and used as a residence by the 
taxpayer/."


Thanks,

,

rick brown
SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC
Electrical & Solar Contracting Services
www.SolShineEnergy.com 
Roanoke, VA

Office: 540.235.3095
Mobile: 540.808.9502

VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660
VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762
VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21


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          ENTECH Engineering Inc.
   PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plaques

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

I use a thermal printer with labels that are UV rated. (duralabel). The 
problem with engraved is if you make a mistake and have to have it 
redone.  The labels from my printer are best placed out of the sun 
although UV rated.  I do see fading after 8 or 10 years.


On 3/30/2024 4:33 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:
Good question I’m curious on this also, I have to say the ones that 
I’ve had made are not inexpensive

Dana Orzel
C: 208.721.7003
E- d...@solarwork.com

On Mar 30, 2024, at 12:58 PM, Lou Russo via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:



Aloha Wrenches,

Anyone out there making their own engraved plaques and labels?
If so, is it worth it and what machine are you using?
Thanks for your time and insight, it is always appreciated.

Aloha,

Lou Russo
Owner
l...@spreesolarsystems.com
808 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322

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          ENTECH Engineering Inc.
   PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
              401-477-5773
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

I have carried E for much less. I think the recommendation to shop 
around is a good one.  NABECP I THINK, has some leads on firms for this.



Chris

On 3/10/2024 6:23 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi All,

I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal 
with this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some 
design work for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect 
a system and give my professional opinion about it. These are two 
separate work situations.


Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we 
should have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is 
not something that is covered under our general liability 
(contractors) insurance.


Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional 
liability" (errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one 
or two designs a year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. 
This would be meant to cover us if I make a mistake in the design that 
leads to some sort of failure or fire.


Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get 
essentially a home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per 
year. Again, this is something that we do a handful of times per year. 
This insurance is meant to cover us if I inspect a system and miss 
something that then ends up being a problem or a hazard.


With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that 
I may be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have 
something in my service contracts that would essentially say something 
like "we will do this work to the best of our ability", and then if 
something does go wrong and the homeowner takes us to court, it is 
upon them to prove that we missed something that a reasonable person 
would have caught. My business manager does not like this because we 
could still have lots of lawyer fees and have to show up in court if 
we were to get sued, even if the problem was not caused by a lack of 
diligence on our part.


So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do 
you just not do designs and inspections unless you are actually 
turning some wrenches on the site so that your general liability 
insurance covers your work? Or, is this a case of our insurance agent 
putting ungrounded fears in our head?


Thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers,
Dave

--
Logo 
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com 
c: (607) 270-0370


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Christopher Warfel
          ENTECH Engineering Inc.
   PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
              401-477-5773
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Re: Cantilevered array

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Hi, in what way?  The loading is obviously less, and the clamps are 
rated for the load.


On 2/12/2024 10:56 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:


How do you deal with the rain gutters?


Drake Chamberlin

Media & Communication Action Project

https://m-cap.org/

---


On 2024-02-08 16:46, Sky Sims via RE-wrenches wrote:

I've designed and installed several thousand cantilevered arrays over 
the last three decades and never had a single issue. Unfortunately, 
code changes have taken a turn for the worse in most jurisdictions 
and oftentimes disallow cantilevering.


Sky Sims
Https://EcologicalSystems.org
732-462-3858

On Jan 19, 2024, at 3:09 PM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I've done a fair amount of roof mounted solar structural compliance, 
and I would say that the cantilevered design looks like a disaster 
waiting to happen. You could not use conventional solar racking 
products.  Chris




On 1/13/2024 12:42 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:


Drake

My earlier reply may have been a bit facetious.  What I meant by it 
was that big-box solar contractors can be lazy when it comes to 
solar design. They will rely totally on satellite imagery and not 
check the design on the ground.  This is how you get solar proposed 
for shaded areas, where skylights and roof vents are located, or 
overhanging thin air.  This may be what is happening in the image 
you shared.


What is unique here is someone actually specified overhanging 
panels.  Looking more closely at the image, a roof outline is shown 
but it is not clear that the outline is actually situated over a 
building.  It almost looks like there is landscaped area inside the 
outline.


The solution of course is to get on out there, measure the roof and 
any obstructions and analyze the shading.  I use the Sun Seeker 
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sun-seeker-tracker-surveyor/id330247123> 
app for IOS for the shading analysis.


William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of 
*Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Saturday, January 13, 2024 8:47 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org 
<mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org>

*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Re: Cantilevered array

**



**



**



**



Here is a larger snip of the situation.




Label says overhang from upper roof.

/Drake Chamberlin/

/Athens Electric LLC/

/Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810/

/NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional/

---

On 2024-01-12 07:29, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

Are you sure that's what you're looking at? To me, that looks
like there was an addition made to the house, and maybe it's a
multi-pitch roof. That lower part might be a covered
wrap-around porch.


Jason Szumlanski

Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956

On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 5:59 PM Drake Chamberlin via
RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:

I was given a drawing, produced by a very large solar
company, showing the array cantilevered over the edge of
the roof by several feet.



Notice how the array hangs out over the lawn for several
feet. Is there anyway that this is a legitimate way to
mount modules?

Thanks,

Drake

/Drake Chamberlin/

/Athens Electric LLC/

/Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810/

/NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional/

-- 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] USDA Rural Development fund

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Hi Daniel, it is a lot of paperwork, but if they pay you for your time, 
and they should, I think it is worth it. Importantly, you need to speak 
with the regional office administering this fund and make sure you know 
what they are requiring. Some of them use a subcontractor to help, but 
you do NOT need to work with the sub. I had a very bad experience with 
one of them in New England who was not very knowledgeable about the 
technology, and was impossible to work with.


I do know of a lot of oyster farms here who I turned on to this and used 
it to power their processing facilities.



Chris


On 1/3/2024 12:28 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hey all! A happy, Safe & Prosperous New Year to You All!

I have a brewery that is wanting to do a grid tie system - 2 meters; 1 
is split phase & 1 is 3 phase & the initial request was about USDA 
Rural Development funding.


I have no experience with this.

Any suggestions?

Has anyone applied for this?

Experience?

I have heard it is a pile of paperwork to say the least.

Thanks

_

Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS!

C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com 

W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com 

/_“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”_/


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            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Line Side Tap

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

The intent of the line side tap, was to allow larger pv systems to 
interconnect to the SE conductors and not have to consider the service 
panel. So, I agree with others that the service panel has no 
consideration for what you are doing. The panel is protected by the MSP 
Breaker.  Chris


On 10/12/2023 8:06 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote:
We have a design where the conductors will come out of a 400 A meter 
base to a junction box. Splices in the box will allow for the PV to 
feed the meter.

A maximum of 312 Amps can come from the inverters to feed the grid.

The loads on the existing main service are significantly less than 
200A. The service is rated at 200 A, 3 phase delta.




The conductors from the meter would be rated at 400 A to the splice, 
as would the conductors to the photovoltaic system. The conductors to 
the existing service would be downsized to 200 A.


We were told that the bus bar rating of the service must also be 400 
A, even though the output of the PV does not feed through that box. Is 
there a rule that says this? What would be the logic?

Thank you,
Drake

/Drake Chamberlin/

/Athens Electric LLC/

/Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810/

/NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional/


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                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Record Low

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Hi Drake, here you go


ASHRAE climatic design conditions 2009/2013/2017/2021 
(ashrae-meteo.info) 



Chris

On 8/22/2023 1:28 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hello Wrenches,
Is there a good source for finding record low temperatures in various 
areas? We are designing a project that has very different temperature 
characteristics than we are used to.
Ashrae.org was recommended as a source. Does anyone know where on the 
site to look?

Thank you,
Drake

/Drake Chamberlin/

/Athens Electric LLC/

/Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810/

/CO Master Electrician’s License 4526/

/NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional/


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[RE-wrenches] Heliene 66M HJT All Black Module 360 or 370 watt module

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

/I have had one of these break and I am wondering if anyone has one for 
sale or knows who is caring them. I have struck out over the past two 
weeks. Please contact me off list. Thank you for any help. Chris

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery balancers

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Would you recommend that for FLAs?  Thank you, Chris

On 5/15/2023 6:12 PM, Starlight via RE-wrenches wrote:

Jay,

I started recommending the Victron battery balancer for all series and 
series/parallel Li battery banks. It has eliminated trouble in some 
problematic systems. If you reach a cell over-voltage in the Kilovault 
BMS, it will block current flow, preventing the other series batteries 
from charging. This also causes havoc with connected equipment as the 
battery appears to have disconnected.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Power Systems


On May 15, 2023, at 12:17 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi All

I’m wondering what the thoughts are on using or not balancers for 2 
 12v lithium in series for 24v system. The batteries don’t have any 
series communication.

Kilovault if that matters.
Not my design.

It would seem to be a good idea, with victron having a good one.

Thanks in advance

Jay
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                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
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Re: [RE-wrenches] active vs apparent power readings with solar

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

I think the power factor will be very close to one for split phase.  
What's the inverter specs say w/r to this? Chris


On 4/27/2023 5:10 PM, August Goers via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi Wrenches,

We have a residential site with grid tied solar where there is an 
electrician involved who has gotten into taking site readings and 
thinks there is a power factor problem. My gut on it is that there is 
some sort of measurement reading error, and that the power factor 
should be around 1.


The electrician is using a Fluke 3540FC power monitor and has provided 
a spreadsheet comparing active power to apparent power and calculating 
power factor. See below (you might have to open the image and zoom in 
to read it). This measurement was taken with a PV system running, 
presumably sending some power back to the grid.  Note that the phase B 
active power measurement is negative (PV exporting to grid) and that 
the apparent power is positive. This nets in a power factor that is 
crazy low of 0.05.


Does anyone have experience about whether a meter like this can 
properly measure these readings - maybe there is a setting error or it 
can't deal with negative readings?


image.png

Best,

August
Luminalt

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Truss finder

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

There are very good roof mounting systems that do not require finding 
the rafter. There was a thread on this within the past two weeks.  I 
understand the comfort of lagging into a rafter, but unless you can see 
the rafters from below, you'll never know 100% you did not come out the 
side of the rafter, especially if the rafter is checked. We use the 
hammer, two pilot holes to establish the rafter edge if we are attaching 
to the rafter. That is a cool tool though that I never saw before.  Chris


On 4/17/2023 3:31 PM, Garrison via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi Kris,

I started using the Bosch D-tect 150 a few years ago after a friend 
who had success with it recommended it.  Works great on most roofs.  
It needs a smooth surface to roll on so I use a piece of Soladeck 
box.  Older roofs with ply over roof boards don't scan very well so I 
sometimes go back to the mallet method.


I also highly recommend the Chip Tool!  Every installer should have 
one.  It's best use in my opinion is for installing fall protection.  
I don't recommend it be used with a "micro flashing" though, as the 
pilot hole next to the rafter may only be barely covered by the 
"flashing".


Best,

Garrison Riegel
Licensed Electrician
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™

(c) 773-515-5168  (e) garri...@celestarsolar.com


On Sun, Apr 16, 2023 at 10:13 AM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I am considering buying a deep scanner for locating trusses.  Any
recommendations or testimonials?

Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
137 West 1st Avenue
Luck, WI 54853
www.legacysolar.com 
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-ark without batteries

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Yes, we just did one.  Chris

On 4/10/2023 7:38 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:

Friends:

Can the Sol-ark 15 be installed without batteries in grid-tie mode?

I have been told the answer is yes but I’d like confirmation.

Thanks in advance.

William Miller
--

William Miller
Miller Solar.com
895-438-5600
www.millersolar.com 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Attaching Array To or Through Ply

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

I had worked in USVI after those two hurricanes and I don't think FEMA 
is overkill. Their design manual is very thorough. It considers the 
factors mentioned here. Having done a fair amount of high wind 
compliance engineering for structures, the FEMA approach is just 
something you have to organize to install. Yes it will take longer. Chris


On 3/30/2023 6:34 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
That would be great if it were possible! I'm not sure how you bottom 
mount a flush mount array. For a brief period many years ago, I was 
building solar trailers. I would bottom mount 4-6 panel arrays on 
rails in my warehouse and then hoist them up and through-bolt the 
whole array on the top of a trailer. I wasn't about to allow a trailer 
going 80 mph on the interstate to have panels mounted on the roof with 
mid-clamps! I had no idea what I was doing, but I had enough sense to 
know that would have been a bad idea!


I did provide feedback to IronRidge regarding a handful of failures 
from Hurricane Ian, but most of the issues we saw were most likely 
related to catastrophic module failure. After all, they are only 
tested to 5600 Pa uplift for even the best options we have on the 
market and 2400 Pa for some (which I refuse to use). The mid-clamp 
T-bolts tearing out of the rail are slightly concerning, but this was 
pretty rare, and honestly it could be related to installation torque 
issues, misalignment, or coupled with module failure. There was no 
widespread or definitive reason for rail failures at the clamp locations.


I would suggest that FEMA's recommendation is overkill and not based 
on much science, but conclusions based on anecdotal information 
without statistical data. It should be scrutinized. I think it would 
be a good idea to consider bottom mount for ground racks and tilt 
mounts that allow it, but it's just not practical or possible in the 
vast majority of residential installation cases. On that note, I am 
not aware of any ground mount failures around here from Hurricane Ian 
except for submerged arrays that were washed away from storm surge 
(Yikes!). And the handful of failures that we observed were a drop in 
the bucket relative to the installed numbers here.


One other thing. Wind direction, upwind obstructions/windbreaks, and 
luck have a huge amount to do with failures (of both PV and roofs 
themselves). These storms pick winners and losers. You will have ten 
houses in a row with pool enclosures mangled, and one in the middle 
that is unscathed. It's crazy to see. We have lots of gated 
communities with houses close together. When wind accelerates between 
houses, it can topple air conditioning units and pool equipment. If 
you look hard enough at where the wind was coming from and the 
surrounding area, you can really see how there are so many factors 
that come into play.


Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956


On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 7:35 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


If you look at FEMA's design guide for solar installations in FL
and the Caribbean, the recommended module to rail attachment
method is back to using the attachment holes in the solar module.
Chris

On 3/30/2023 5:56 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:

This thread has morphed into more than it started as, and for
good reason. I want to provide some practical/anecdotal
information, having just gone through arguably the most
catastrophic wind event in Florida's history (Ian) since the boom
in solar energy started, and another major wind event (Irrma)
just 5 years ago.

First, Aside from the Sunmodo and Quickbolt decking-only
products, I would check out IronRidge's new entrant into the
market, the IronRidge HUG. If you can't find info on it, ask your
distributor or IronRidge sales rep. They have data on truss
attachments and also missed truss installation procedures. It's a
unique approach to a dual-purpose product, and they did
a stellar job on the engineering documentation in my opinion.

Ok, now let's get to my most important point. Due to Hurricane
Ian, the number of roofing PV attachments that I have witnessed
that failed due to fastener pull-out (mine or competitors):

ZERO

The only building where we had any mounts fail was on a flat roof
with pitched panels and Anchor Products mounts on TPO membrane,
but the mounts themselves did not cause the failure. The roofing
system itself failed, causing a small section of the PV system to
fail. But even in that case, the following applies...

The weak point in a well-designed and installed system is not the
fastener or flashing system. The module to rail connection is
where we saw failures. These failures fell into a few categories:

  * Windborne debris struck panel, panel frame

Re: [RE-wrenches] Attaching Array To or Through Ply

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

If you look at FEMA's design guide for solar installations in FL and the 
Caribbean, the recommended module to rail attachment method is back to 
using the attachment holes in the solar module.  Chris


On 3/30/2023 5:56 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
This thread has morphed into more than it started as, and for good 
reason. I want to provide some practical/anecdotal information, having 
just gone through arguably the most catastrophic wind event in 
Florida's history (Ian) since the boom in solar energy started, and 
another major wind event (Irrma) just 5 years ago.


First, Aside from the Sunmodo and Quickbolt decking-only products, I 
would check out IronRidge's new entrant into the market, the IronRidge 
HUG. If you can't find info on it, ask your distributor or IronRidge 
sales rep. They have data on truss attachments and also missed truss 
installation procedures. It's a unique approach to a dual-purpose 
product, and they did a stellar job on the engineering documentation 
in my opinion.


Ok, now let's get to my most important point. Due to Hurricane Ian, 
the number of roofing PV attachments that I have witnessed that failed 
due to fastener pull-out (mine or competitors):


ZERO

The only building where we had any mounts fail was on a flat roof with 
pitched panels and Anchor Products mounts on TPO membrane, but the 
mounts themselves did not cause the failure. The roofing system itself 
failed, causing a small section of the PV system to fail. But even in 
that case, the following applies...


The weak point in a well-designed and installed system is not the 
fastener or flashing system. The module to rail connection is where we 
saw failures. These failures fell into a few categories:


  * Windborne debris struck panel, panel frame failed, panel popped
out of mid-clamps.
  * Catastrophic wind forces popped panels out of mid-clamps (a good
percentage of panels found INTACT and still functional on the
ground!) I suspect the panels became covex in the wind, bending
frames inward.
  * Windborne debris struck mounting system components, panel
dislodged, often still on the roof suspended by DC leads.
  * Mid-clamp t-bolt tore out of aluminum rail channel (IronRidge UFO,
Unirac SM).
  * Mid-clamp sheared off (Quick Mount QRail).
  * Unexplained module detachment failures.

On 9/28/22, while I stayed up all night bracing myself against my 
front door that I thought was about to fail, I was imagining how many 
roof leaks my clients were about to endure, and wondered about the 
efficacy of my business going forward. Those fears never materialized. 
Aside from a handful of minor panel dislodgements, there was no panic 
following the storm (with respect to solar panels). The bigger problem 
became all of the people needing to remove panels for roof 
replacements, but PV panels largely protected roofs in the areas where 
they were installed. Sadly, the rest of the roof often did not fare as 
well.


Anyway, back to the decking attachments. I have been skeptical of 
non-flashed products for comp shingle roofs for a long time. My 
thinking is coming around, particularly with the HUG (I trust 
IronRidge's testing regime). And sealants have come so far. This 
method will remain up for debate probably for a long time. Around 
here, I am pretty certain these products will outlast the shingles 
they are placed upon. We only get 15 years out of most shingle roofs 
around here.


About the pull-out fears... Mine are gone. We have done many flat 
roofs with long fasteners through steel decking or wood decking. These 
screws are usually something like #15 XHD screws in lengths from 5 - 
12". Not a single failure. We have also used Quick Mount QBase 
Low-Slope bases on pitched tile roofs that were only screwed into 
decking with 4 fasteners each (due to horizontal truss transitions) in 
some cases. Zero failures. But the most relevant attachments I can 
think of that are germane to this discussion are the many thousands of 
S-5 SolarFoot that we have screwed into decking on 5V metal roofs 
around here. These have four screws per attachment, and S-5 load tests 
show something like 240 lbs of pull-out strength in OSB (adjusted for 
safety factor). When engineered for our wind loads, we usually get 
anywhere from 36-48 inch attachment spacing, sometimes 24 inches in 
certain roof zones. Again, not a single failure.


I have more solar installations on Sanibel Island and Fort Myers Beach 
(Hurricane Ian Ground zero) than anyone. Many of those have 
decking-only attachments, S-5 clamps, flat roofs, or other attachments 
other than trusses. I can tell you unequivocally that I trust 
decking-only attachments from a pull-out strength standpoint. When 
properly engineered, with cautious attachment spacing, these mounts 
work in both OSB and plywood. Because of the inconsistencies in OSB, 
we always err on the side of caution, if not in the engineering, then 
in the installation, by 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Attaching Array To or Through Ply

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Quickbolt makes a similar product to the nano. I've used it several 
times. The last time when I was trying to attach to oak beam and had no 
experience with how difficult that was.  They work well, but no greater 
than 36" spacing.



https://quickbolt.com/catalog?field_roof_type_tid=1175_rain_mount_tid=All_adjustablility_tid=All_per_page=12



Chris




On 3/29/2023 11:09 AM, Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches wrote:

Very timely post for me, Matt.  Thanks.

I was just asked to bid a roof mount with SIP panels.  My first 
thought is to just say no.  I am very hesitant to rely on the pull out 
strength of screws in OSB.


I will be watching this thread.


Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
137 West 1st Avenue
Luck, WI 54853
www.legacysolar.com 
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE


On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 9:37 AM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi All,

I've run into a roof-mounted job where the roof is built-up with
the following:

Comp shingle
Plywood
Foam board
T (roof deck, but also interior ceiling)

The beams that hold the t up are wide-spaced and not convenient
for fastening the full extent of the array.

This being the case, I was considering other fastening options and
am writing to pick the collective brain of the Wrenches to see how
others have addressed similar situations.

One thought I had was to use the PLP Easy Mounting Foot and I'd be
glad for any opinions on that or another solution.

-Matt

-- 
Matt Sherald

PIMBY Energy, LLC
304-704-5943


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire fighters

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

They can generate enough illumination to have the module(s) reach ~ Voc.

On 3/8/2023 10:31 AM, Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi wrenches,

In speaking to local firefighters last year, I had a question that 
stumped me.  At night, will the light from the flames or the fire 
fighters' flood lights energize the array to a dangerous potential?


Any light you can shed (pun intended) would be most welcome.

Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
137 West 1st Avenue
Luck, WI 54853
www.legacysolar.com 
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE

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[RE-wrenches] Clearing out equipment

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

I've begun the process of clearing out my solar inventory as I reach the 
age equivalent of a junk yard.  Reclaimed modules with plenty of life 
have found homes.  I have quite a few older PV Power (5), Fronius (2) 
old non arc fault "new inverters", and all the usual suspects of 
miscellaneous equipment. Has anyone ideas on how to distribute them to 
interested people?   I don't want any money for them, but pay for 
shipping or ferry freight.  I was thinking a community solar project, 
but we need new local utility management and board people to achieve 
that. Thanks for any advice.  Chris






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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Thanks for doing this.  Chris

On 2/1/2023 4:49 PM, Brian Mehalic via RE-wrenches wrote:
Most firefighters are not electrical engineers; nor are most insurance 
agents. However both of those groups are stakeholders with influence 
over codes and standards. Some may say too much influence, but the 
fact of the matter is that code making is a group/consensus process, 
and very often none of the groups get exactly what they want (in fact 
sometimes a group accepts exactly what it doesn't want to leverage 
that for something they do; yes it often smacks of politics). I would 
appeal to y'all to submit a proposal for the 2026 NEC® - they are due 
by September of this year. Better yet would be to circulate language 
that this, or some other, group can work on, agree on, write a solid 
technical justification for, and sign their names to and submit - the 
more stakeholders that support a proposal the more weight it has.


It seems that the PV Industry Forum, or another similar body, may 
again begin work to develop PV and storage industry 
stakeholder-consensus PIs to submit; in the past this was a very 
successful endeavor. I'll post on this list if and when that happens 
so that anyone that is interested can get involved, but don't let that 
possibility keep you from submitting any PIs on your own.


Maybe in the meantime, a control system that shuts off the PV, and 
then the batteries, would be worth designing.


Brian Mehalic




On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 2:10 PM James Jefferson Jarvis via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:




On 2/1/2023 2:58 PM, Starlight via RE-wrenches wrote:
> Have you (or any) installed surge suppression on the PV input
side to
> clamp the open circuit voltage surge?

That's not where the issue is and isn't really a solution. As I
explained in my previous e-mail, the issue is the open circuit on the
output leaves no where for the energy in the MPPT controllers
inductor
to go and the only option is for the voltage to rise until it finds
somewhere to go.

Surge suppressors, such as sold by Midnite Solar, are nothing more
than
Metal Oxide Varistors. Or in the case of Delta, they are pieces of
wire
in sand. They require large rise in voltage before they conduct.

MOVs are sometimes found on the battery side of inverters and charge
controllers, but their clamp time and voltage before clamping
requires
additional circuitry that works faster to protect fragile
semiconductors.


If you are proposing using a surge supressor to regulate the
voltage of
an island between a charge controller and an inverter when the
battery
is disconnected, that's also a no go. Once the MOV clamps, it stays
clamped until voltage goes essentially to zero or until it blows up.
It's not a regulator.

-

To further stir the pot, it is definitely possible to design
electronics
that can deal with load dumps and survive most anything. Aerospace
electronics come pretty close. But all that costs money and takes
space
to do. Are we comfortable with requiring $16,000 charge
controllers so
they can handle load dumps reliably from a poorly thought out NEC
requirement? I think the fossil fuel industry would be very happy
with
the cost of renewable energy electronics being an order of magnitude
more expensive.




>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2023, at 1:23 PM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches
>  > wrote:
>
> I can also backup what Jim has said, and have seen the same gear
> destroyed by removing the battery abruptly when the controller
is under
> heavy load. They can die, and sometimes die spectacularly.
>
> Have seen SolArk inverters integrated MPPT controllers blow up when
> lithium battery BMS disconnects. Not a field fixable issue.
>
> Just flip off the breaker when the solar is working hard and and
the
> SolArk will give up the smoke.
>
> Like I originally said, it’s the non talked about issue that is
a big
> issue depending on what gear your using.
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 2:49 PM James Jefferson Jarvis via
RE-wrenches
>  > wrote:
>
>
>
>     On 2/1/2023 12:25 PM, Alex MeVay via RE-wrenches wrote:
>      > Although our controllers are probably smaller than what
you would be
>      > considering in this discussion, surviving a load dump
(suddenly
>      > disconnected battery) is an engineering requirement for
us, and
>     likely
>      > would be for other responsible MFG's on this list
(boB?).  The charge
>      > controller can either handle full input voltage on the
output, or
>      > there is a comparator that will shut the controller down
instantly
>      > when the output 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar and tenant billing

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

There are quite a few utility grade submeters out there. Leviton is one, 
and here is a link:


https://www.leviton.com/en/products/commercial/submetering/submeters#t=Products=%40wcs_site_tree_rank%20ascending=card

Usually a utility will not let you distribute renewable energy to more 
than one meter, but some programs allow this, so I am just mentioning to 
make sure this can happen. In any case, these meters will give you an 
inexpensive way to know what each tenant is using.



Chris



On 1/30/2023 8:42 PM, Carl Adams via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hello wrenches,
I have a client that is installing solar on a commercial building 
where he has four points of connection for four tenants.  Are there 
any good solutions out there for metering power for tenants in this 
situation.  Production metering will be done via  SolarEdge revenue 
grade meters.


With kind of regards
Carl Adams
SunRock Solar

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                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
*On Behalf Of *Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2023 10:12 AM
*To:* cwar...@entech-engineering.com; RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Jeremy Rodriguez
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects



*2020 Code Language:*

/*480.7 DC Disconnect Methods.*/

/*(A) Disconnecting Means.*/*//*/A disconnecting
means shall be provided for all ungrounded
conductors derived from a stationary battery system
with a voltage over 60 volts dc. A disconnecting
means shall be readily accessible and located within
sight of the battery system./

/*N*/*//*/*(B) Emergency Disconnect.*/*//*/For
one-family and two-family dwellings, a disconnecting
means or its remote control for a stationary battery
system shall be located at a readily accessible
location outside the building for emergency use. The
disconnect shall be labeled “EMERGENCY DISCONNECT”./

*/N/*/*(C) Disconnection of Series Battery
Circuits.*/*//*/Battery circuits exceeding 240 volts
dc nominal between conductors or to ground and
subject to field servicing shall have provisions to
disconnect the series-connected strings into
segments not exceeding 240 volts dc nominal for
maintenance by qualified persons. Non-load-break
bolted or plug-in disconnects shall be permitted./

Jeremy Rodriguez

Solar Installation / Design

All Solar, Inc.

1453 M St.

Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.



On Jan 28, 2023, at 7:28 AM, Christopher Warfel via
        RE-wrenches  wrote:



Seems confusing that the AHJ is requiring a
disconnect for AC wiring, not specific to which
or both panel types, and then a dc disconnect
with no code reference.  Was trying to convey a
reasonable, safe approach.  A lot of bad
information from fire department solar
consultants making a lot of money fear
mongering, which has led to this type of
situation.  Chris

On 1/27/2023 3:35 PM, William Miller via
RE-wrenches wrote:

Glenn:

As I wrote, a DC disconnect is required.
Here is an excerpt from the Q with the
building official:

4.Will you be requiring an external
disconnect to disconnect the AC output of
the inverter system from premise wiring?

Yes, as required per 230.85

5.Will you be requiring an external
disconnect to disconnect batteries from the
inverters?

Yes

If the DC disconnect was not required I
would not be wasting everyone’s time with my
post.  I try to be careful about that,
researching on my own before posting and
trying to make my questions very clear.  I
also try not to embarrass myself with dumb
questions, but that does happen occasionally…

William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com
<http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
*On Behalf Of *Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Friday, January 27, 2023 11:46 AM
*To:* William Miller via RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Glenn Burt
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery
disconnects

Does the AHJ really want the batteries
disconnected from conductors, or does he
really just want the inverters to stop
operating and producing AC with

Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Seems confusing that the AHJ is requiring a disconnect for AC wiring, 
not specific to which or both panel types, and then a dc disconnect with 
no code reference.  Was trying to convey a reasonable, safe approach.  A 
lot of bad information from fire department solar consultants making a 
lot of money fear mongering, which has led to this type of situation.  Chris


On 1/27/2023 3:35 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:


Glenn:

As I wrote, a DC disconnect is required.  Here is an excerpt from the 
Q with the building official:


4.Will you be requiring an external disconnect to disconnect the AC 
output of the inverter system from premise wiring?


Yes, as required per 230.85

5.Will you be requiring an external disconnect to disconnect batteries 
from the inverters?


Yes

If the DC disconnect was not required I would not be wasting 
everyone’s time with my post.  I try to be careful about that, 
researching on my own before posting and trying to make my questions 
very clear.  I also try not to embarrass myself with dumb questions, 
but that does happen occasionally…


William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com 

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Friday, January 27, 2023 11:46 AM
*To:* William Miller via RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Glenn Burt
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

Does the AHJ really want the batteries disconnected from conductors, 
or does he really just want the inverters to stop operating and 
producing AC within the house?


Obviously there is a big difference here and it may be changing as the 
code evolves.


-Glenn

Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

-- Original message--

*From: *William Miller via RE-wrenches

*Date: *Fri, Jan 27, 2023 2:26 PM

*To: *RE-wrenches;

*Cc: *William Miller;

*Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

Friends:

We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  
The AHJ has said they will require a remote battery disconnect.  I 
suspect there will be fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that 
would become inoperable if this system were engaged.  In this case we 
will apply for a waiver.


The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October 
of 2020.  At that time no one suggested any specific battery 
disconnect equipment.


To further clarify my needs:  There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 
inverters (5 or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV 
recombiner outputs.  That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.


The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a 
brand yet to be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look for a 
system that can remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA 
lead-acid, we will not have that luxury.


I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high 
amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment.


I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote 
battery disconnecting in these types of cases..


William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600 

www.millersolar.com 

CA Lic. 773985


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

This was my first thought too.  An ac disconnect that is readily 
available that controls the ac conductors to the back up loads panel(s) 
would be less dangerous and has much less worries about it failing.  Chris


On 1/27/2023 2:45 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
Does the AHJ really want the batteries disconnected from conductors, 
or does he really just want the inverters to stop operating and 
producing AC within the house?
Obviously there is a big difference here and it may be changing as the 
code evolves.


-Glenn
Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

-- Original message--
*From: *William Miller via RE-wrenches
*Date: *Fri, Jan 27, 2023 2:26 PM
*To: *RE-wrenches;
*Cc: *William Miller;
*Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

Friends:

We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  
The AHJ has said they will require a remote battery disconnect.  I 
suspect there will be fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that 
would become inoperable if this system were engaged.  In this case we 
will apply for a waiver.


The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October 
of 2020.  At that time no one suggested any specific battery 
disconnect equipment.


To further clarify my needs:  There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 
inverters (5 or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV 
recombiner outputs.  That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.


The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a 
brand yet to be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look for a 
system that can remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA 
lead-acid, we will not have that luxury.


I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high 
amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment.


I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote 
battery disconnecting in these types of cases..


William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600 

www.millersolar.com 

CA Lic. 773985


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Low Frequency transformer off-grid inverter options

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Have they already installed soft starts on these motors?  Chris

On 1/13/2023 1:41 PM, Starlight via RE-wrenches wrote:

Mac,

What was the lowest voltage measured at inverter battery terminals 
during the inrush measurement?


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems



On Jan 13, 2023, at 11:33 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hello Wrenches,

I have a new client that has ran a pretty decent wood shop for about 
10 years on a Magnum 4448. He's got some large loads, planers, saws, 
compressors vacuums etc.  They are really nice, heavy duty pieces of 
equipment.  Amazingly, the Magnum has been able to start these loads 
for the most part for 10 years, but he has reported that it has gotten 
worse lately (could be a load issue), brown outs, dimming etc


He wants to upgrade the system, get remote monitoring etc.  I tried a 
test with a Sol-Ark 12, and it won't start these large motor loads.  I 
was a little surprised by that but I know they aren't as good as the 
low freq transformer based inverters at these surges.


I confirmed that its not just an overload from imbalance because the 
240V loads will also overload it.  I got an inrush measurement of 
48.5A Ac @240 (but it didn't start the load before Sol-Ark would shut 
off)


What are my options?
Schneider XW Pro 6848
Outback Radian 8048 (Is this a low freq device?)
Sunny Islands are beasts but weird to work with and not user friendly

Any others I should consider?  He does have some significant 120 only 
loads so I don't think the Outback vfxr are a good choice.


Is it as simple as saying if the Magnum can start this load, the 
Radian should?


I appreciate your input!

--
Mac Lewis

*

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

*
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            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

What happens if the study shows yes, that their no was wrong. Or does 
that never happen?


On 12/26/2022 12:48 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:

If the utility is PG in my experience here is what happens

They say yes or no to the interconnection.
If no you have the option to request an engineering study to determine 
how much solar. That study is at your expense, paid in advance and the 
exact cost isn’t known until the study is done. Could be $500 to 
$15,000 or more.


I’ll be curious to know what happens

Jay





On Dec 26, 2022, at 9:07 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:





William,

I ran into this once on an old transformer, which fortunately they 
changed at no cost. It was a 10 kW transformer on a 200 A (48 kW) 
service. They had some dimming of lights on heavy loads, and the 
transformer was changed out on that basis, at no charge.


My questions for the utility would be?

  * Are there any other PV systems feeding the transformer?
  o If so, what is their maximum production.
  * What size is the transformer?
  * What percentage of transformer capacity is allowed to be back-fed.

If the math comes out in your favor, you will have a good case to 
escalate to the next level.



Good Luck,

Drake


Drake Chamberlin

Athens Electric LLC

Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810

CO Master Electrician’s License 4526

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional

---

On 2022-12-25 13:58, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:


Wrenched:

Merry Christmas to those of you that observe such traditions, or 
substitute the winter festivity of your choice.


I helped a previous employee install an Enphase IQ8 system on his 
home.  He applied for the utility approval concurrently with his 
building permit  The day he got his final inspection the utility 
contacted him and claimed "The aggregate generation exceeds the 
identified transformer rating" and refused him a Permission to 
Operate letter.


Adding up the service ratings of the homes on his secondary we get 
about 336 kW of potential consumption. Adding the grid-tied systems 
on his secondary we get about 16.5 kW.  How is it that the back-feed 
exceeds the transformer rating?


I would appreciate any insight on how to consider this situation and 
how to fight it.


Sincerely,

William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com 

CA Lic. 773985


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                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Wouldn't the microinverters shut down if the voltage rose?  They 
wouldn't be able to raise voltage about PUC/DPU limits I would think. 
They would shut down on high voltage. I am saying this because of an 
experience this fall where our infamous Block Island Power Company 
raised the taps on a local xfmr due to their "secret heat pump program" 
that was dragging down local voltage. They claimed solar was a burden, 
but were quiet on the load building program they embarked upon without 
any disclosure.   When the cooling loads disappeared, the voltage went 
above our grid tied systems set points and they shut down.  We told the 
utility they had a high voltage problem and they adjusted the taps.  Of 
course they did not acknowledge or thank us.  It seems our little coop 
which is now head from a guy from the Vermont Electric Coop is taking an 
old utility approach instead of cooperation, integration and 
maximization of performance and economics.


I'd think you be able to ask how the supply can raise the voltage when 
there is so much diversified load on the same device.   Electricians 
have to do a diversity calculation, and I know a utility has to conduct 
them as part of these studies. Worse case of no load and all generation 
is such a low probability that to design for it, when/if it occurred, is 
not a danger and of no material consequence makes little sense. But, 
we've been dealing with that ever since this person arrived in our neck 
of the woods.



Chris Warfel



On 12/25/2022 5:21 PM, Garrison via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi William,

One possible path forward would be to ask the utility co what AC 
inverter capacity would be allowed. Maybe the solution would be to 
unplug a micro or two if you are just over the limit. Even better, 
maybe they would allow you set an export limit on the micros you have 
installed.


I had a recent situation where a 40kW DC system had exceeded a utility 
transformer by only 2kW AC, so a simple redesign avoided an $8k 
invoice from the utility. The utility was not transparent about this 
option at first and only made it clear after some persistence.


Good luck,

Garrison Riegel
Celestar Solar

On Dec 25, 2022, at 3:14 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:



It is common practice for the utility to overload the transformer a 
lot for the potential load.  They expect no one will use their 
service at maximum, furthermore, they expect non coincidence of 
loads.  Look at the transformer most have a label as to the kW or the 
unit, and the utility should give you that number along with the 
impedance.  Note I have had area engineers not understand that solar 
reduces the load on the transformer.  They have two concerns, you 
will overload and you will raise the voltage to other customers.  
Overload is ridiculous; the transformer must be at least 20 kW if a 
15 kW concern is valid.  However, raising the voltage is not.  If all 
the customers shut off their power, the voltage would rise to the 
inverter limit,and/or feed current back on the distribution line 
raising up/downstream customers voltage.  I have had this problem, on 
three occasions discussions with the utility upper engineering, not 
local engineer, i prevailed, one case I did not.   In one cast 
utility allowed connection and put a voltage monitor on secondary 
voltage, then later allowed permanent connection..   Good luck


On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 1:16 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Wrenched:

Merry Christmas to those of you that observe such traditions, or
substitute the winter festivity of your choice.

I helped a previous employee install an Enphase IQ8 system on his
home.  He applied for the utility approval concurrently with his
building permit  The day he got his final inspection the utility
contacted him and claimed "The aggregate generation exceeds the
identified transformer rating" and refused him a Permission to
Operate letter.

Adding up the service ratings of the homes on his secondary we
get about 336 kW of potential consumption.  Adding the grid-tied
systems on his secondary we get about 16.5 kW.  How is it that
the back-feed exceeds the transformer rating?

I would appreciate any insight on how to consider this situation
and how to fight it.

Sincerely,

William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com 

CA Lic. 773985

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Hi List, Tigo was hard to pin down on this issue and they told me to 
contact Sol-Ark. I did, and they called back and said the method I 
proposed was their recommended method.  So, I will reattach the 
drawing.  The one thing this does not do, is shut down the Critical 
Loads panel.  To do that would take three disconnects I think. One for 
the AC utility interconnection, one for the Tigo transmitter, and one 
for pin 11/12.  Thank you to everyone.  Have a peaceful Thanksgiving.  Chris

--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978




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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Hi Lloyd, Did you tie into the 12VDC of the SolArk with the lock 
pushbutton switch?


On 11/18/2022 10:47 AM, Lloyd Hoffstatter wrote:

Chris,
For emergency shutoff switch i just used a lock pushbotton switch in a 
clear front lockable box with an led to indicate status. We did use an 
external power supply because we were using Tigo optimizers, CCA and TAP.

Best regards,
Lloyd

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

*From:* RE-wrenches  on 
behalf of Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 


*Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2022 10:14:52 AM
*To:* Bradley Bassett ; RE-wrenches 


*Cc:* Christopher Warfel 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

Thanks everyone, the person I started with a SolArk asked me to call 
them, so I've left a message.  I'll let everyone know what the 
determination is.  Bradley raises a good point about shutting down the 
back up loads panel. We would like to have an outdoor accessible 
disconnect switch between the back up loads panel and the inverter so 
that can happen more easily for first responders.  I have to go back 
and understand a few more things and will let you know. Thanks again. 
Chris


On 11/16/2022 10:14 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
The issue as I see it is that the Tigo RSS Transmitter and the 
APsmart transmitter are both rated to draw up to 800ma. The 12VDC 
output of the Sol-Ark inverters is limited to 100ma. Since some have 
used this successfully I suppose that means that either these 
transmitters don't really use more than 100ma, or the 12VDC output of 
the Sol-Ark can actually handle more than that, or some combination 
of both. If I owned a Sol-Ark I'd test this to see what the answer 
is, but alas I do not. I design systems using a 48VDC to 12VDC power 
supply (Online Components has a Mean-Well device for a reasonable 
price, sorry no link from here) and a fairly rare IMO shutdown button 
(we have that) that has both NO and NC contacts. This is needed 
because to shut down the Sol-Ark inverter requires a NO contact that 
closes on initiation which is quite rare in RSD initiators. And you 
do still need to shut down the inverter as well as the RSD devices so 
that it does not continue to feed voltage back into the PV circuits 
(I think). This also shuts down the AC output of the Sol-Ark which 
tends to make the inspector happy. Since it also shuts down the 
inverter, that limits the battery to its own circuits, does this 
count as a battery disconnect also?? I'm seeing some inspectors 
calling out for battery disconnects which is much more problematic.


Brad Bassett
AEE Solar

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:27 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:


Wrenches, Christopher
I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in
the inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the
output side it would do much the same work until it did not then
shut off the modules.
Fun times

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via
RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:

Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The
inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS
is the TS4F.  Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles.

I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output
terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the
attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the
transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they
supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main
service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power.
I told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as
that would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of
utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the
back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails,
I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals
for RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk
manual that says not to do that.

At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know
how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for
any guidance, Chris Warfel





-- 
Christopher Warfel

     ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
            401-466-8978
<http://entech-engineering.com>


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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Thanks everyone, the person I started with a SolArk asked me to call 
them, so I've left a message.  I'll let everyone know what the 
determination is.  Bradley raises a good point about shutting down the 
back up loads panel. We would like to have an outdoor accessible 
disconnect switch between the back up loads panel and the inverter so 
that can happen more easily for first responders.  I have to go back and 
understand a few more things and will let you know.  Thanks again. Chris


On 11/16/2022 10:14 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
The issue as I see it is that the Tigo RSS Transmitter and the APsmart 
transmitter are both rated to draw up to 800ma. The 12VDC output of 
the Sol-Ark inverters is limited to 100ma. Since some have used this 
successfully I suppose that means that either these transmitters don't 
really use more than 100ma, or the 12VDC output of the Sol-Ark can 
actually handle more than that, or some combination of both. If I 
owned a Sol-Ark I'd test this to see what the answer is, but alas I do 
not. I design systems using a 48VDC to 12VDC power supply (Online 
Components has a Mean-Well device for a reasonable price, sorry no 
link from here) and a fairly rare IMO shutdown button (we have that) 
that has both NO and NC contacts. This is needed because to shut down 
the Sol-Ark inverter requires a NO contact that closes on initiation 
which is quite rare in RSD initiators. And you do still need to shut 
down the inverter as well as the RSD devices so that it does not 
continue to feed voltage back into the PV circuits (I think). This 
also shuts down the AC output of the Sol-Ark which tends to make the 
inspector happy. Since it also shuts down the inverter, that limits 
the battery to its own circuits, does this count as a battery 
disconnect also?? I'm seeing some inspectors calling out for battery 
disconnects which is much more problematic.


Brad Bassett
AEE Solar

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:27 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Wrenches, Christopher
I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in
the inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the
output side it would do much the same work until it did not then
shut off the modules.
Fun times

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The
inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS
is the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles.

I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output
terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the
attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the
transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they
supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main
service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I
told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that
would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of
utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the
back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, I
got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for
RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual
that says not to do that.

At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know
how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any
guidance, Chris Warfel





-- 
                            Christopher Warfel

 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
    401-466-8978
<http://entech-engineering.com>


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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Thanks Kent, I would have thought they would have this clarified by now. 
I think that we will just use a remote switch and not use the pins. It's 
starting to snow here soon, so this needs to be done.  Chris


On 11/16/2022 1:38 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:


As of the March 2022 manuals there are contradictory statements:

  * (+15, -16) 12V power supply for RSD transmitters: such as TIGO and
Midnite Rated for a maximum of 1.2W (100mA @12V)

and

  * TIGO Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 8K (Do not use the
built in 12V Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to Power the
Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter)

Why use Tigo as an example for the pins purpose in one location and 
then say don't use them do it in another?


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

On 11/16/2022 9:38 AM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote:
All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was 
initially confused on during a Solark install I was involved with 
last year. Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k 
manual dated April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying-


Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use 
the built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the 
Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter)


I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not 
looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes 
have changed.


Enjoy your day, Nick



On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Chris,

I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark 
suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS 
Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS 
transmitter to achieve rapid shut down.


Best,

Chris

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Aloha Chris,

We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have
the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no
issues to date.


Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please
excuse shortcuts and typos. 


Roland Shackelford
NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER
President
Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
Mobile: _808-938-9239 <http://808-938-9239/>_
www.renewablenergy.com <http://www.renewablenergy.com/>


On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches
 wrote:



Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The
inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS
is the TS4F.  Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles.

I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output
terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the
attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the
transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they
supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main
service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I
told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that
would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of utility
power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up
loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, I got an
email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I
just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says
not to do that.

At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know
how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any
guidance, Chris Warfel





-- 
        Christopher Warfel

             ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
        401-466-8978



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http

Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Hi Nick and List, that was my problem exactly. Chris

On 11/16/2022 12:38 PM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote:
All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was initially 
confused on during a Solark install I was involved with last year. 
Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k manual dated 
April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying-


Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use 
the built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the 
Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter)


I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not 
looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes 
have changed.


Enjoy your day, Nick



On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Chris,

I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark 
suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS 
Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS 
transmitter to achieve rapid shut down.


Best,

Chris

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Aloha Chris,

We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have
the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no
issues to date.


Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please
excuse shortcuts and typos. 


Roland Shackelford
NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER
President
Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
Mobile: _808-938-9239 <http://808-938-9239/>_
www.renewablenergy.com <http://www.renewablenergy.com/>


On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches
 wrote:



Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The
inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is
the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles.

I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output
terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the
attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter
connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply.  They
told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so
the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is
exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the
battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I
wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After
about a week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to
use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed them a
screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that.

At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how
they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any
guidance, Chris Warfel





-- 
    Christopher Warfel

         ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
401-466-8978



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--
Chris Sparadeo


C_802-369-4458
H_802-728-3059
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[RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter 
is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo 
has me a little bit walking in circles.


I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals 
for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which 
they ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC 
breaker which they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to 
the main service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I 
told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop 
the battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I 
wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After about a 
week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 
12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk 
manual that says not to do that.


At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they 
wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel






--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978




Tigo Transmitter Powering.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"?

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

I agree with Lloyd. It is qualified if listed I would have to believe. Chris

On 10/21/2022 6:36 PM, Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches wrote:

Howie,
I think he is referring to the tax language 
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/energy-incentives-for-individuals-residential-property-updated-questions-and-answers

Best regards,
Lloyd
Lloyd Hoffstatter
Sunstruck Consulting
Get Outlook for iOS 

*From:* RE-wrenches  on 
behalf of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 


*Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2022 6:29:31 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* Howie Michaelson 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"?
Kris,
I found your query in the archives and Marcos follow-up question, but 
not the reply, apparently from George McClellan. I just called Sol-Ark 
and the sales person I talked with knew nothing about such a letter.  
Fortress didn't have anything on their website and didn;'t answer 
their phone.

Do you still have the email response from George?
Thanks,
Howie
*Howie Michaelson
**Sun Catcher*
*/NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
/**
**Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service
802-272-0004*


On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 2:32 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Search the archives, Howie.  I posted the same question this year
and got a good response.  The documents should be available from
the manufacturer.

Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
137 West 1st Avenue
Luck, WI 54853
www.legacysolar.com 
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE

On Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 1:14 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

Hi folks,
I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery
upgrade. We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7
Fortress 18.5kwh units. The client is wanting manufacturer
certification that the equipment is "qualified solar electric
property". I don't know that I've ever run across this type of
request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such
documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with?
Did I miss something here?
Thanks,
Howie
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--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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There 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Need two wire submersible cable

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Would SJO cord work?

On 10/26/2022 12:44 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:

Friends:

I am looking for cable appropriate to connect a low water sensor. It 
is two wire, low current. 18 to 14 gauge would work.


Does anyone know where I can source such an item? I need only 150’.

Thanks in advance for your help.

William
--

William Miller
Miller Solar.com
895-438-5600
www.millersolar.com 

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--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Butt End Connector Warning

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

You cannot use them with Al. The connection will disintegrate over time. 
I have pictures somewhere of mismatching rail bonding connectors that 
were gone in a year. Chris


On 10/6/2022 9:32 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote:
Our electrical supplier seamlessly transitioned from crimp on butt end 
connectors, that were listed for CU and AL, to unmarked ones that were 
approved for copper only.


I became concerned since there was no marking. Calling two electrical 
suppliers, the guys at the counter had to look up the device to learn 
that they were listed for copper only. Talking to one of the counter 
guys, he agreed that electricians were probably using these for aluminum.


Since the barrels will be insulated, it is not likely that inspectors 
will see them. The connectors are made of coated copper. I wonder how 
much of a problem this will be.


Drake






--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Old Solar Modules

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

If you can't find anything, I would think measuring Voc, adjusting for 
temperature,  and then dividing into the wattage would give you some 
reasonable approximations. Chris


On 9/12/2022 10:28 AM, Amos Post via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi all,

I have a few old modules I am trying to date best I can.  One is an 
Photowatt (Arco?) 55Watt silver frame yellow backsheet, one is a 
Solarex 53Watt silver frame grey back sheet, and one Arco 50Watt black 
frame black back sheet.  Looking for help with dates and if anyone 
knows of good websites for looking up specs and/or dates on these 
older modules?


Thanks,
Amos


       Amos Post
Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188
ienergyVT.com 
Facebook 


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--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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[RE-wrenches] Converting Enphase systems to ac coupled multimode systems

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

I have several Enphase system customers looking to add battery 
storage.   The Enphase system, which I got certified in, comes across to 
me as fairly complicated with several historical installation issues. 
The Outback Mojave looks pretty simple, and we have installed quite a 
few Radian, GVFX, etc systems and have had good experiences.  Would 
anyone care to share their experience with Mojave?  Thank you, Chris 
cwar...@entech-engineering.com


--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

The more our local utility tries to suppress solar, the more we are 
taking people off grid, so I would estimate 3 a year for our small locale.


On 7/10/2022 12:53 PM, Tump via RE-wrenches wrote:

How many folks require UL listing to install, this may expedite delivery?
On Jul 8, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


The question was – When might these units be available?
The first request from the manu. was to get a survey of how many 
units might get sold per year & responses are still trickling in slowly.
Next Tump & I will be in a zoom meeting with the company powers that 
be & at that point they need to source & design.
I would bet it is out aways still depending on equipment 
choices/availability, testing & UL certification etc.
I would not even dare to guess but when we ca report back with a date 
we will do so.

Dana Orzel -  E -d...@solarwork.com-  C - 208.721.7003 //
*From:*RE-wrenches *On 
Behalf Of*Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches

*Sent:*Friday, July 8, 2022 12:59 PM
*To:*RE-wrenches 
*Cc:*Kevin Pegg 
*Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS 
INQUIRY
Thanks for this – there is certainly demand. I could see my company 
buying a 3-5 per year.

Is there any estimate of timeline when these might be available?
Kevin
*From:*RE-wrenches *On 
Behalf Of*Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches

*Sent:*June-30-22 11:02 AM
*To:*'RE-wrenches' 
*Cc:*Dana Orzel 
*Subject:*[RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY
Hey now all you off grid designer/installers,
I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld 
for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas 
powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market 
since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this 
size range.
If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM 
- water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, 
how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets?
/_If this was available how many units would each of you be 
interested in per year?_/I am not asking for a commitment just a 
market survey for this sized unit.
If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be 
a possibility.
Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let 
us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately 
sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems.
I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you 
do not want your name passed along let me know for now.

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
*C - 208.721.7003 **d...@solarwork.com* **
Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com 


_"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" _
**
*P*Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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*Tump 
mailto:t...@swnl.net%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::mailto:t...@swnl.net>3...@gmail.com* 
*www.SWNL.net* 
http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/>

Solarwinds Northernlights *//*
*/       Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California/**/
/**/   207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401 /*
*//**/Blair "TUMP" May/*

*/              MAINE'S CHARTER 
/**//**/  NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"/**/
/**/
       MAINE'S CHARTER 
/**/    Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"/*







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--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                           

Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for consulting.

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

Try Brown and Brown. They are who we use.  Chris

On 6/24/2022 11:48 AM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi Wrenches,
Like many of you, I have been in PV industry a long time. I have 
focused on design-build operations in the off-grid realm. In recent 
years I have started shifting toward doing more consulting work, and 
having picked up a few high value clients, I am feeling the need to 
revisit my insurance and add professional liability insurance in 
addition to my GL policy. This has proved a little more difficult than 
expected, as my current underwriter does not offer a professional 
liability policy for our class of business and, and our local 
insurance agent is kind of out of their depth with respect to this 
anyway. I am a solo practitioner and don’t really represent a large 
account for my insurance company, so there’s little incentive for them 
to work hard to find me a good solution.


I suspect that many Wrenches are or have been in a similar situation, 
so I’m wondering if anyone has advice/or comments on their experience 
with these issues.  If you’ve had positive experience with a 
particular underwriter or insurance company for solar consulting work, 
that would be information I’d love to hear.


This is probably a reply-off-list topic.

Thanks in advance.



Luke Christy

Renewable energy consultant.

NABCEP Certified Solar Professional™:
Solar Gain Services, LLC
sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 
719.588.3044



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--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC SHW pumps

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

March pumps, Laing are all good dc pumps.  Chris

On 6/22/2022 11:32 AM, Todd Cory via RE-wrenches wrote:


I have a customer with a (now obsolete) Hartell DC 1/2" X 1/2" 
MIP solar hot water circulation pump which is failing.


Does anyone happen to have one of these in their inventory? Or can 
anyone suggest an alternate?


I remember March and ElSid used to also make similar DC pumps. It 
would be best to find another Hartel unit to ease the plumbing, but 
any DC circulation pump would work.


Thanks in advance,

Todd Cory
Mount Shasta Energy Services




Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.

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--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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[RE-wrenches] Availability of 320 watt modules

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

We had several projects on hold over the winter and now my usual sources 
of modules do not have any 320watt modules.  Can anyone provide to me a 
source for this size module.  Basically in some cases we are getting too 
close to the roof edge with the 360 watt ones, which are available. 
Thank you for any assistance. Chris


--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install

[Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches]

I talked to SolArk about the input amperage limitation on a recent 
project. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but SolArk does automatically 
limit excess amperage.  We were very close on the limit and it made no 
sense to me that they would design something with parallel MPPT that 
limit one to one string.  In any case, I was informed by SolArk that 
they do current limit when in excess of 18.  Chris Warfel


On 4/14/2022 1:00 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:
Hi, Ron, Yes, you must be careful of the MPPT inputs.  You state 
Sol-Ark has an 18 amp max input, meaning you can not have more than 1 
string supplying an MPPT if your 60 cell modules are 10 amps Isc.  You 
state Sol-Ark has a maximum voltage per MPPT of 500 volts, this 
voltage is _not Voc x number of modules._  The Voc must be temperature 
corrected.  find the lowest temperature for your region, check code 
book 690.7a table and there is a table of temperature correction 
factors, use these factors to correct Voc at STC to Voc at your lowest 
temperature.   For example if your lowest temp is -10 F the code says 
(x1.2) so your 40 volts becomes 40 x 1.2 = 48 volts and the max number 
of modules is 10 per string


On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 9:42 PM Ron Young via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark
install. Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a  and the PV I’m
using is 40v DC each I will have to create three strings each
480v. What would be the best choice for a home run wire? I’ve
always used smaller strings with micro inverters, a combiner at
the array and a single Teck home run cable but the string inverter
presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need to use
three home run cables, one for each string.

Ron Young

earthRight Products - Solareagle.com 
Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products


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--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


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