Re: Minimum Configuration / Hardening

[Ryan McDougall]

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 16:40, Benjamin J. Weiss wrote:
>  
> Ben
> - Original Message - 
> From: Rich Lichvar
> To: Red Hat List (E-mail)
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:14 AM
> Subject: Minimum Configuration / Hardening
>  

Sorry to be intrusive, but our bandwidth deprived friends would prefer
if HTML mail was not sent. ASCII does quite nicely for almost *every*
email.

Cheers,
Ryan


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Re: what makes linux so secure?

[Benjamin J. Weiss]

> Pardon me, but why in the heck would they do that?  Performance?

That's what they claim.

> Do you have any references on this that I can read?

A google search on "iis kernel" brought up too many references to list.
However, the following was found at
http://www.infosecuritymag.com/2003/apr/lockdown.shtml:
--
Finally, Microsoft made a major architectural change to IIS to improve its
performance. The logic responsible for initial processing of HTTP requests
was moved out of IIS, which runs in user mode, to a kernel-mode component
called http.sys. Code runs faster in kernel mode. But this could also be
disastrous if the code falls victim to a buffer overflow, since kernel mode
operates at a much higher privilege level. Microsoft is aware of the
increased security risk posed by http.sys, saying it has mitigated this risk
through extensive security testing, including threat modeling and
independent code reviews.
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Was it an "upgrade" or "install (fresh)?

[Christopher Russell]

Was it an "upgrade" or "install (fresh)?

I "upgraded," from RH8 to RH9 by selecting "upgrade" on the RH9 disc.
(as opposed to fresh "install"). After system lock-ups, not being able
to recover from 'screensaver mode', and other mayhem, decided on a fresh
"install."

Result: Red Hat utopia.

Of course, I might have misunderstand your use of the word 'upgrade.' -
but that isn't the point.

What has everyone else found; upgrade v. fresh install?

>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>Subject: Upgraded RH8.0 to RH9.0
>...
>"I just upgraded my IBM Laptop, ThinkPad T22, to RedHat 9.0 from RH8.0
and now the system is extremely unstable...(sic)"


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RE: HELP! - I've screwed up on security and now can't access root

[Joshua Peter]

Ooh, that bad crypto that I had previously encountered when enforcing a
grub password has come back to haunt me. However, instead of single-user
mode, I tried booting up with my rescue disk. But for some reason Linux
wouldn't boot up into rescue mode. After reading through the RH9
Customization Guide, I realized that the installation CD-ROM would do
just fine. I was able to boot into rescue mode that way, and edit the
files that I've modified back to their original state. I'm now able to
access root via su now. Now that I can do that, I'll read up on setting
up sudo to that it'll work appropriately and then modify the root
security access. Thank for your support.

Josh


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Thomas E. Dukes
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 5:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: HELP! - I've screwed up on security and now can't access
root

Have tried to boot into single user mode?
 
 
Palmetto Shopper 
http://www.palmettoshopper.com
Serving all of South Carolina and beyond!
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Joshua Peter
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 9:28 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: HELP! - I've screwed up on security and now can't access root
I consider myself an intermediate user on Linux. I can do things very
well,
others not well at all. At my workplace, I've converted a former PIII NT
machine into a smoking RH9.0 NetWorker client. One of the requests that
my
lead IT asked me to do is to set up this Linux box to be SSH enabled to
transfer and store critical files. Although it was my first time doing
so, I
was able to impliment SSH, and then started looking for addtional
security.
So I downloaded the RH Linux Security Guide from RH's site.

I was walking through the guide, and started working on root access. I
wasn't reading ahead. Instead, I was just doing the commands that the
guide
instructed.

First I changed the root shell in my /etc/passwd file from /bin/bash to
/sbin/nologin.

Second I disabled root access via any console device (tty) by creating
an
empty /etc/securetty file.

Third I disabled root SSH logins by editing the /etc/ssh/sshd_config to
set
the PermitRootLogin to no.

I didn't get as far as using PAM to limit root access services because
at
this point I then rebooted to test a previous security implementation to
the
grub.conf file to enforce pwords when login in to command line. I found
out
that something went wrong. I believe it was a bad crypto copy from the
/sbin/grub-md5-crypt output, but that's not my problem. My problem is
this.
Because of my root access step one, I'm no longer to switch into root
mode
with su. I then tried to implement my commands with sudo. However, I
cannot
get it to accept my root password. FYI, because it was my first time
running
sudo, I didn't do any config on it. I know that my root password still
works
because when I execute any system setting programs, I can successfully
start
it with my root pword. I really want to edit my root shell back to
/sbin/nologin. What is the correct implimentation of sudo? I've been
entering the following below:

$ sudo vi /etc/passwd

I wish I were in front of my work workstation, but I'm currently at home
and
can't recall the output from that statement. All I know is that I can't
get
into it. Please can someone help me out here?


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RE: HELP! - I've screwed up on security and now can't access root

[Thomas E. Dukes]

Title: Message



Have 
tried to boot into single user mode?
 
 
Palmetto Shopper http://www.palmettoshopper.comServing all of South Carolina and beyond!

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of Joshua PeterSent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 9:28 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: HELP! - I've 
  screwed up on security and now can't access root
  
  I consider myself an intermediate user on Linux. I can 
  do things very well,others not well at all. At my workplace, I've 
  converted a former PIII NTmachine into a smoking RH9.0 
  NetWorker client. One of the requests that mylead IT asked me to do is to 
  set up this Linux box to be SSH enabled totransfer and store critical 
  files. Although it was my first time doing so, Iwas able to impliment SSH, 
  and then started looking for addtional security.So I downloaded the RH 
  Linux Security Guide from RH's site.I was walking through the guide, 
  and started working on root access. Iwasn't reading ahead. Instead, I was 
  just doing the commands that the guideinstructed.First I changed 
  the root shell in my /etc/passwd file from /bin/bash 
  to/sbin/nologin.Second I disabled root access via any console 
  device (tty) by creating anempty /etc/securetty file.Third I 
  disabled root SSH logins by editing the /etc/ssh/sshd_config to setthe 
  PermitRootLogin to no.I didn't get as far as using PAM to limit root 
  access services because atthis point I then rebooted to test a previous 
  security implementation to thegrub.conf file to enforce pwords when login 
  in to command line. I found outthat something went wrong. I believe it was 
  a bad crypto copy from the/sbin/grub-md5-crypt output, but that's not my 
  problem. My problem is this.Because of my root access step one, I'm no 
  longer to switch into root modewith su. I then tried to implement my 
  commands with sudo. However, I cannotget it to accept my root password. 
  FYI, because it was my first time runningsudo, I didn't do any config on 
  it. I know that my root password still worksbecause when I execute any 
  system setting programs, I can successfully startit with my root pword. I 
  really want to edit my root shell back to/sbin/nologin. What is the 
  correct implimentation of sudo? I've beenentering the following 
  below:$ sudo vi /etc/passwdI wish I were in front of my work 
  workstation, but I'm currently at home andcan't recall the output from 
  that statement. All I know is that I can't getinto it. Please can someone 
  help me out here?

Re: What is the difference between kernel-sources....rpm and kernel...src.rpm?

[Brian Ashe]

Daevid Vincent,

On Wednesday June 25, 2003 09:23, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> Can someone tell me what the difference is between
> "kernel-sources-2.4.20-19.9.rpm" and "kernel-2.4.20-19.9.src.rpm". The
> .src. File is like 35MB! The -sources- file is 39MB. How come the .src.
> File doesn't show up in a "rpm -qa | grep kernel" command and how can I
> uninstall it now that I've installed it?

Go to the /usr/src/redhat/ directory and remove what you want from the SOURCES 
and SPECS directories. The other directories are for completed and "in 
progress" files.

> It would make sense to me that the .src. File is the source code to the
> kernel, but I don't see anything in /usr/src/linux until AFTER I install
> the "kernel-sources" file. I don't get it.

Simply...

The .src.rpm is the SRPM to be able to build the various kernel packages. It 
goes in /usr/src/redhat/.

The kernel-source rpm is the kernel source files for use in development and 
compilation of programs. It is also for if you need to build drivers or if 
you want to do a completely custom kernel.

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Re: What is the difference between kernel-sources....rpm andkernel...src.rpm?

[andy richter]

haha good point... i'm curious also...

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 21:23, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> Can someone tell me what the difference is between
> "kernel-sources-2.4.20-19.9.rpm" and "kernel-2.4.20-19.9.src.rpm". The .src.
> File is like 35MB! The -sources- file is 39MB. How come the .src. File
> doesn't show up in a "rpm -qa | grep kernel" command and how can I uninstall
> it now that I've installed it? 
> 
> It would make sense to me that the .src. File is the source code to the
> kernel, but I don't see anything in /usr/src/linux until AFTER I install the
> "kernel-sources" file. I don't get it.
> 
> 
> http://daevid.com
-- 
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HELP! - I've screwed up on security and now can't access root

[Joshua Peter]

I consider myself an
intermediate user on Linux. I can do things very well,
others not well at all. At my workplace, I've converted a former PIII
 NT
machine into a smoking RH9.0 NetWorker client. One of the requests that my
lead IT asked me to do is to set up this Linux box to be SSH enabled to
transfer and store critical files. Although it was my first time doing so, I
was able to impliment SSH, and then started looking for addtional security.
So I downloaded the RH Linux Security Guide from RH's site.

I was walking through the guide, and started working on root access. I
wasn't reading ahead. Instead, I was just doing the commands that the guide
instructed.

First I changed the root shell in my /etc/passwd file from /bin/bash to
/sbin/nologin.

Second I disabled root access via any console device (tty) by creating an
empty /etc/securetty file.

Third I disabled root SSH logins by editing the /etc/ssh/sshd_config to set
the PermitRootLogin to no.

I didn't get as far as using PAM to limit root access services because at
this point I then rebooted to test a previous security implementation to the
grub.conf file to enforce pwords when login in to command line. I found out
that something went wrong. I believe it was a bad crypto copy from the
/sbin/grub-md5-crypt output, but that's not my problem. My problem is this.
Because of my root access step one, I'm no longer to switch into root mode
with su. I then tried to implement my commands with sudo. However, I cannot
get it to accept my root password. FYI, because it was my first time running
sudo, I didn't do any config on it. I know that my root password still works
because when I execute any system setting programs, I can successfully start
it with my root pword. I really want to edit my root shell back to
/sbin/nologin. What is the correct implimentation of sudo? I've been
entering the following below:

$ sudo vi /etc/passwd

I wish I were in front of my work workstation, but I'm currently at home and
can't recall the output from that statement. All I know is that I can't get
into it. Please can someone help me out here?

Re: Adding Apache & My SQL

[Michael Mansour]

Hi Billy,

Just for some advice, never try to test things on a
production environment, it's really asking for
trouble. Do yourself a favour and build a PC with the
same config as your production, and with whatever
people reply to you for packages, pop them onto there,
install and play with the environment, before having
it put onto production.

You'll thank yourself later for doing it that way than
installing various RPMs people tell you about onto
production only to find some things break.

Michael.

--- Billy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a RedHat 7.3 machine that I want to add
> apache and mysql to. I am
> just extremely confused at all the different
> versions, updates, packages...I
> have no idea what I need. I want my end result to me
> a machine that can host
> a PHP based site, with a MySQL database. Can someone
> tell me what RPM's I
> should be looking for? I would just download
> everything I found on
> rpmfind.net and try for myself, but the machine is
> in production and I would
> break it for sure!! Any help would be
> great...THANKS!
> 
> Billy
> 
> 
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>
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What is the difference between kernel-sources....rpm and kernel...src.rpm?

[Daevid Vincent]

Can someone tell me what the difference is between
"kernel-sources-2.4.20-19.9.rpm" and "kernel-2.4.20-19.9.src.rpm". The .src.
File is like 35MB! The -sources- file is 39MB. How come the .src. File
doesn't show up in a "rpm -qa | grep kernel" command and how can I uninstall
it now that I've installed it? 

It would make sense to me that the .src. File is the source code to the
kernel, but I don't see anything in /usr/src/linux until AFTER I install the
"kernel-sources" file. I don't get it.


http://daevid.com


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Re: Which window manager I should use? Blackbox, FWM, or somethingelse?

[Stephen Kuhn]

On Thu, 2003-06-26 at 10:25, Michael Scottaline wrote:
> 
> Give ratpoison a try.  No eye-candy or decorations, but fully functional,
> small footprint and fast as lightining!
> Best,
> Mike

Actually, wouldn't that be a great migration from WinXP? PINE/MUTT for
email, emacs for a word processor...yowzah! Love to see the looks on
end-users' faces when they saw THAT on a Monday morning! (g)

-- 
Thu Jun 26 10:55:00 EST 2003
 10:55:00 up 1 day, 10:41,  2 users,  load average: 0.18, 0.18, 0.15
-
|____  |kuhn media australia|
|   /-oo /| |'-.   |http://kma.0catch.com   |
|  .\__/ || |   |  ||
|   _ /  `._ \|_|_.-'  |stephen kuhn|
|  | /  \__.`=._) (_   | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
-
 linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 & RH 7.3  
 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586
-
 * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer *

You'll feel much better once you've given up hope.


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Re: what makes linux so secure?

[Anthony E. Greene]

On 25-Jun-2003/18:48 -0500, Ed Wilts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 04:26:24PM -0700, Lazor, Ed wrote:
>> Pardon me, but why in the heck would they do that?  Performance?
>
>And why is this so much different than tux, the kernel-mode http server?

In theory, probably very little. In practice, only a relatively few people
choose to use Tux if running a web server on Linux. I would expect that
those few are experts who are more likely to pay attention to security
issues.

Tony
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OpenPGP Key: 0x6C94239D/7B3D BD7D 7D91 1B44 BA26  C484 A42A 60DD 6C94 239D
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Re: Which window manager I should use? Blackbox, FWM, or something else?

[Brian Ashe]

Apollo (Carmel Entertainment),

On Wednesday June 25, 2003 05:13, Apollo (Carmel Entertainment) wrote:
> So after looking at the thread I started (the one about why RH90 is slower
> than Win98) I came to conlusion that I will move people to Linux in stages.
> First I want to change common use workstations to linux.
> My question is, which WM will do best job (and will be fastest) to do this:
> Desktop would just be with a graphic background (company name in the
> background), there would be only several icons on the desktop to launch
> OpenOffice applications and several Wine emulated MS apps.
>
> Which window manager I should go with?

I put my vote in for XFCE 4. I know it's in beta right now, but it is stable 
(has been for a while now, I was running the CVS versions), fast and nice.

Uses the GTK2 libraries (so is highly compatble with GNOME apps), has the 
anti-aliasing of fonts, simple yet still attractive, easy to use and 
configure.

They also have RH 9 rpms ready to go.
http://www.xfce.org/
Download...
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=19869

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Re: looking for a library that can recognize php code

[Brian Ashe]

Chris,

On Wednesday June 25, 2003 03:44, Chris W. Parker wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I'm looking to make a source code documenting program and instead of
> reinventing the wheel* I'd like to use a ready made wheel so to speak. Are
> there any libraries out there (I am guessing maybe in C or Perl) that
> recognize PHP and know what's what? That is, if I fed it a string or a
> complete page of source code I would like to be albe to know the names of
> all the functions and the names of all the variables.
>
> Any ideas?

If you mean something like Javadoc does for Java code, then you are already 
done and it's called PHPDoc.
http://www.phpdoc.de/

If you mean something that simply extracts the obvious stuff (you shouldn't 
need to "document" the existing PHP functions, only the ones you create), 
then use the below (modify to your heart's content).

#!/bin/bash

# Filename : phpscan.sh
# Usage: phpscan.sh 

# Check that filename was provided
if [ $# -eq 0 ]; then
echo "No file name provided"
echo "Usage : `basename $0` "
exit 65
fi

# Check that file exists
if [ ! -e "$1" ]; then
echo "File does not exist"
exit 1
fi

# First scan for functions. We're looking for where they are defined
FUNCTIONS=`grep function $1 | sort | uniq`
# Then scan for variables. We're looking for assignment.
VARIABLES=`grep -o -e "\$.*=" $1 | cut -d " " -f 1 | sort | uniq`

#Show Function list
echo "The functions are :"

for fun in $FUNCTIONS
do
  if [ "$fun" = function ]; then
  echo
  continue
  fi
  echo -n $fun
done

#Show Variables list
echo
echo "The variables are :"

for var in $VARIABLES
do
  echo $var
done


exit 0



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Re: Where's my tape drive?

[Edward Dekkers]

Actually, that was the weird thing. It saw the adapter, but not the
drive. I took it off the shelf this morning to take a look inside it,
and noticed that it was plugged into an array controller. I unplugged it
from there, and plugged it into the controller on the motherboard. Now
it works great.
Thanks for all your help!

Jody
Well, yes, that ought to do it.

I was going on the assumption all the hardware was configured correctly. 
Makes perfect sense the thing won't work plugged into an array controller.

Sorry about that.

Regards,
Ed.


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Re: Which window manager I should use? Blackbox, FWM, or somethingelse?

[Michael Scottaline]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:52:06 -0700 (PDT)
"Todd A. Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> insightfully noted:

>On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Apollo (Carmel Entertainment) wrote:
>
>> Which window manager I should go with?
>
>Personally, I'm using ROX with TWM, and it flies. Note that if you use 
>such a setup, you'll need to configure ROX's compatibility options to:
>
>   1. Overrride TWM's control of rox panels
>   2. Pass all backdrop clicks to TWM (or you lose TWM's menus)

Give ratpoison a try.  No eye-candy or decorations, but fully functional,
small footprint and fast as lightining!
Best,
Mike

-- 
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years of his life"
--Muhammad Ali


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Can't get Red Hat 8 box to upgrade to PHP 4.3.2

[George]

Howdy

I am trying to upgrade my server from PHP 4.2.2 to 4.3.2

It was initially installed using the Red Hat 8 rpms.  I am trying to
duplicate its configure command, but the ./configure command fails at...

-
Configuring SAPI modules
checking for AOLserver support... no
checking for Apache 1.x module support via DSO through APXS... no
checking for Apache 1.x module support... no
checking for member fd in BUFF *... no
checking for mod_charset compatibility option... no
checking for Apache 2.0 module support via DSO through APXS... no
checking for Apache 2.0 handler-module support via DSO through APXS... configure: 
error: Please note that Apache version >= 2.0.44 is required.
--

I was expecting the install to work via DSO through APXS, but maybe
that's not how Apache is set up in the Red Hat rpms?!?

Does anyone have any ideas how to make this work?

Here is more background info:
--
Configure command for PHP install:
./configure --host=i386-redhat-linux --build=i386-redhat-linux 
--target=i386-redhat-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr--sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var 
--mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --with-config-file-path=/etc 
--enable-force-cgi-redirect --disable-rpath --with-db3 --with-curl --with-dom=/usr 
--with-freetype-dir=/usr --with-png-dir=/usr --with-gd --enable-gd-native-ttf 
--with-ttf --with-gdbm --with-gettext --with-ncurses --with-gmp --with-iconv 
--with-jpeg-dir=/usr --with-openssl --with-png-dir --with-pspell --with-regex=system 
--with-expat-dir=/usr --with-zlib with-bz2 --enable-bcmath --with-layout=GNU 
--enable-exif --enable-ftp --enable-magic-quotes --enable-safe-mode --enable-sockets 
--enable-sysvsem --enable-sysvshm --enable-discard-path  --enable-yp --enable-wddx 
--with-pear=/usr/share/pear --with-imap=shared --with-imap-ssl 
--with-kerberos=/usr/kerberos  --with-ldap=shared --with-mysql=shared,/usr 
--with-pgsql=shared --with-snmp=shared,/usr --with-snmp=sh!
ared --enable-ucd-snmp-hack  --with-unixODBC=shared --enable-memory-limit 
--enable-bcmath --enable-shmop --enable-versioning --enable-calendar --enable-dbx 
--enable-dio --with-mcal --with-apxs2=/usr/sbin/apxs

I took the setup from the results from the PHP-info command compared
to the options available in PHP 4.3.2.
---

Server runs Apache 2.0.40-11.5   mod_so.c is active

---
Current PHP configuration for Apache is in the conf.d folder and
consists of these commands:

#
# PHP is an HTML-embedded scripting language which attempts to make it
# easy for developers to write dynamically generated webpages.
#

LoadModule php4_module modules/libphp4.so

#
# Cause the PHP interpreter handle files with a .php extension.
#

SetOutputFilter PHP
SetInputFilter PHP
LimitRequestBody 524288


#
# Add index.php to the list of files that will be served as directory
# indexes.
#
DirectoryIndex index.php
--

I am more knowledgeable than a newbie, but have learned everything by
OJT -- no formal training so I have gaps in my understanding.

THANKS in advance for any help you can provide.

Peace,
George


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RE: what makes linux so secure?

[Lazor, Ed]

This doesn't sound much different, but the question still remains.  Why are they doing 
it?  

> -Original Message-
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 04:26:24PM -0700, Lazor, Ed wrote:
> > Pardon me, but why in the heck would they do that?  Performance?
> 
> And why is this so much different than tux, the kernel-mode 
> http server?


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Re: Export sound to another server?

[Matthew Melvin]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 at 12:47pm (-0700), Todd A. Jacobs wrote:

> I'm interested in a way to redirect sound to another server. I know esd 
> and arts have the capability to bind to sockets, but is there actually a 
> way to export sound that isn't application-specific?
> 
> For example, I can run xine with the video exported to my local server,
> but the sound still plays on the remote server. I'd like to be able to
> treat both video *and* sound as a client. How can I do that?
> 

Well.. for your specific example... xine understands esd so...

$ export ESPEAKER=the.remote.host.running.esd
$ xine somemovie.mpg

 should work for you. Well assuming esd has been called with '-tcp 
-public' so that it's listening for remote connections.  

Acutally if DISPLAY already points at the remote host you prolly don't even 
need to set ESPEAKER.  If you're piping your X11 display over ssh though 
then DISPLAY will point to something like the.local.host.with.xine:11 and 
that won't work automatically.

For applications that don't speak esd themselves you can try using esddsp
which fools them into talking to esd when they think they're opening dsp

$ esddsp -v --server=the.remote.host.running.esd xine somemovie.mpg

... if xine wasn't configured to use the esd audio driver for instance.

Or we could get recursive and use esddsp to start a local instance of esd 
and then let all subsequent apps talk to it.

$ esddsp -v --server=the.remote.host esd -tcp 
server:the.remote.host
name:  esd
command line:  esd -tcp

[1]+  Stopped esddsp -v --server=the.remote.host esd 
-tcp
$ bg
[1]+ esddsp -v --server=the.remote.host esd -tcp &
$ esdplay /usr/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages/etc/sounds/flush.au   
$ 

.. I think esd is neat. :)

Unlike X11 there is no commonly accepted 'native' way of doing remote audio 
like we do remote displays - hence the existance of things such as nas, esd, 
and arts.

M.

P.S.  Hmmm... I bet a bit of judicious tcp port forwarding over ssh and it 
could all 'just work'... might try that myself. ;)

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Re: Which window manager I should use? Blackbox, FWM, or somethingelse?

[Todd A. Jacobs]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Apollo (Carmel Entertainment) wrote:

> Which window manager I should go with?

Personally, I'm using ROX with TWM, and it flies. Note that if you use 
such a setup, you'll need to configure ROX's compatibility options to:

1. Overrride TWM's control of rox panels
2. Pass all backdrop clicks to TWM (or you lose TWM's menus)

You can then add 'rox -b bottom-panel &' to your .Xclients-default and 
away you go.

Note that ROX has some peculiarities. It isn't perfect. But it basically 
does the job that Nautilus does for GNOME, but faster. You can then setup 
applications in either TWM or ROX.

If you're looking for something less avante-garde and easier to install
and configure, I'd recommend WindowMaker instead. It's basic but
functional, and has built-in support for a clip and dock.

There's going to be a bit of a learning curve no matter what you choose,
so pick a window manager and filer that you like, and see how well they
work together for you.

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RE: what makes linux so secure?

[Lazor, Ed]

I'm not familiar with Tux, but I'll read up on it and go from there.  It sounds as if 
it would have the same problems of security scope.

-Ed


> -Original Message-
> > Pardon me, but why in the heck would they do that?  Performance?
> > 
> > Do you have any references on this that I can read?
> > 
> 
> Hmmm... So how would this be different from the http server 
> for the linux
> kernel, tux or whatever it's called?  I don't normally deal 
> w/ that kind of
> stuff, I'm just curious.


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Re: what makes linux so secure?

[Ed Wilts]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 04:26:24PM -0700, Lazor, Ed wrote:
> Pardon me, but why in the heck would they do that?  Performance?

And why is this so much different than tux, the kernel-mode http server?

.../Ed

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RE: what makes linux so secure?

[Milanuk, Monte]

> -Original Message-
> From: Lazor, Ed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 4:26 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: what makes linux so secure?
> 
> 
> Pardon me, but why in the heck would they do that?  Performance?
> 
> Do you have any references on this that I can read?
> 

Hmmm... So how would this be different from the http server for the linux
kernel, tux or whatever it's called?  I don't normally deal w/ that kind of
stuff, I'm just curious.

Monte


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RE: what makes linux so secure?

[Lazor, Ed]

Pardon me, but why in the heck would they do that?  Performance?

Do you have any references on this that I can read?

-Ed


> -Original Message-
> It gets worse.  Under the new version of IIS that's just 
> getting ready to
> come out, IIS doesn't just run as a system service, it is 
> actually being
> made part of the Windows Server kernel!  This means that if 
> somebody manages
> to hack IIS, they are immediately acting as part of the OS.  






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RE: what makes linux so secure?

[Res]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Chris W. Parker wrote:

> But MS said they are going to start paying attention to security. I don't think 
> there's anything to worry about.
>
> Just kidding.

muwhahahahahahaha


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Re: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Shaun T. Erickson]

Cliff Wells wrote:
You really think people who only have *one* mouse button know anything
about X? 
ROFLMAO :)

	-ste



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Re: Which window manager I should use? Blackbox, FWM, or somethingelse?

[Panos Tsapralis]

Hi Apollo,

Apollo (Carmel Entertainment) wrote:
So after looking at the thread I started (the one about why RH90 is slower than
Win98) I came to conlusion that I will move people to Linux in stages. First I
want to change common use workstations to linux.
Moving people to Linux in batches is - IMHO - a good strategy, especially if you 
take some time to carefully design the intermediate steps (who goes first / 
second / etc.) and, also, if you can allocate enough time for testing 
compatibility / conversion issues (don't forget: even if you successfully move 
your organization to Linux, the world, out there, is still M$-dominated and, 
therefore, you need to make sure that your users still fit in that world 
smoothly...).

My question is, which WM will do best job (and will be fastest) to do this:
Desktop would just be with a graphic background (company name in the
background), there would be only several icons on the desktop to launch
I never believed in display icons being useful to the users: after all, most of 
the time, they are hidden behind the applications' window(s) - except for those 
5 minutes each morning, when each user starts his/her daily computer activities. 
On the other hand, I find that a reasonably organized menu along with a 
carefully selected hot-key combination (to bring it up) is much more useful for 
the average user.

OpenOffice applications and several Wine emulated MS apps.

Wine emulation (or, even better, Codeweavers' Crossover Office - if you can 
afford the licensing costs) is a good intermediate (short-term) solution, so as 
to smoothen the impact from the transition to Linux for your end-users (it is 
also useful if you need to use an "exotic" Windows-based application, that has 
no descent Linux equivalent (e.g., Microsoft Project). However, if you are going 
to dive into the Linux "waters", why not go all the way? I believe that 
OpenOffice.org / Sun's StarOffice are rather good choices for daily office work 
(they may lack some rather exotic features, found in MS Office, but I wouldn't 
worry much about this, since most office users need these features once or twice 
in their lifetime...).

Which window manager I should go with?

My preference: BlackBox, with WindowMaker being second close.

My advice: take your time in selecting and putting together the elements of the 
integrated solution (your desktop standard), such as menus, applications, access 
rights / permissions, etc., then select a small group of volunteering power 
users, that will be willing to test your solution, before you deploy it to the 
rest of your organization. Also, offer some training options to your people 
(online / Web-based training seminars, CBT's, etc.) and, most important of all 
GET COMMITMENT from your management (these guys are mostly interested about 
money & profits, so, preparing a business case, that will show them some 
financial benefits from migrating to Linux, is - IMNSHO - a must...).

Good luck,
--
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Software Engineer,
SAP-R/3 specialist, ABAP/4 developer,
Registered Linux User #305894,
Ximian Evolution (ver.1.4) on Red Hat Linux (8.0),
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RE: what makes linux so secure?

[Chris W. Parker]

Benjamin J. Weiss  wrote:

> > Let's say you are running two machines - a Linux box running Apache
> > and a Windows box running IIS.  Apache runs as an unprivileged user
> > while IIS runs as root.  Now, let's say an exploit comes out on the
> > same day for both Apache and IIS, both allowing a full shell access
> > onto the box. 
> 
> It gets worse.  Under the new version of IIS that's just getting
> ready to come out, IIS doesn't just run as a system service, it is
> actually being made part of the Windows Server kernel!  This means
> that if somebody manages to hack IIS, they are immediately acting as
> part of the OS.  

But MS said they are going to start paying attention to security. I don't think 
there's anything to worry about.























































Just kidding.



Chris.


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Re: what makes linux so secure?

[Todd A. Jacobs]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Jonathan Bartlett wrote:

> Another thing is that I really think that for system data, ACLs cause
> more security problems than they help.  Auditting a Linux system is much
> easier than an NT box, because you don't have ACLs to worry with.

Linux is getting ACLs. I haven't checked the 2.5 tree recently, but I'm
pretty sure there are kernel hooks for them now. I'm less sure about
whether there are any utilities for managing them yet, or whether their
use breaks current applications. 

And where the line is drawn between "capabilities" and "ACLs" in the 
kernel is a bit of a mystery to me. I don't think there's much 
docoumentation on it outside the source itself.

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Re: Minimum Configuration / Hardening

[Benjamin J. Weiss]

You can actually go two routes for a good snort box 
in an untrusted zone.
 
1) Bastille, which has been mentioned before, 
or
 
2) Don't give the box an IP address.  I don't 
know the specifics, but I've seen in CERT lists that you can put the NIC in 
promiscuous mode without an IP.  The box will still receive all of the 
packets on the wire, but it won't be able to reply and the black hats won't be 
able to see the box.  You'll have to do everything from the console, but 
you'll have a truly hack-proof box.
 
Ben

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rich Lichvar 
  To: Red Hat List (E-mail) 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:14 
  AM
  Subject: Minimum Configuration / 
  Hardening
  
  Thinking of using 
  a Linux 9.0 box running Snort for detection in the Untrusted Zone of our 
  network (i.e., before the firewall). I would like to know the absolute minimum 
  configuration (package/software) and a suggested hardening script that 
  could be used for this.
   
  Richard L. 
  Lichvar
  Director, 
  Operations
  Knowledge Resource Center, 
  Inc.
  Phone: 703-848-2100 
  x228
  Fax: 
  703-848-4747
  Mobile: 
  571-221-3430
   

Re: what makes linux so secure?

[Benjamin J. Weiss]

> Let's say you are running two machines - a Linux box running Apache and a
> Windows box running IIS.  Apache runs as an unprivileged user while IIS
> runs as root.  Now, let's say an exploit comes out on the same day for
> both Apache and IIS, both allowing a full shell access onto the box.

It gets worse.  Under the new version of IIS that's just getting ready to
come out, IIS doesn't just run as a system service, it is actually being
made part of the Windows Server kernel!  This means that if somebody manages
to hack IIS, they are immediately acting as part of the OS.  

Ben


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Re: mount USB drive

[Todd A. Jacobs]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Alan Giltinan wrote:

> I am trying to mount my 120GB harddrive as hda3 (hda1 and 2 already
> taken) on RH8

You can't. It must be mounted as a SCSI drive. Check /proc/scsi/scsi to
see which device it is, but my guess is that you can mount it as
/dev/sda unless you have other USB/SCSI devices on the system already.

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Re: Linux (not) ready for desktop? [WAS Re: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?]

[T. Ribbrock]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 07:21:42PM +0300, Panos Platon Tsapralis wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 17:32, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 01:18:31PM +0300, Panos Platon Tsapralis wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 12:16, Peter Peltonen wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Instead of 50 workstations under heavy load have 50 clients getting
> > > > their X sessions from a server having good hardware and lots of memory.
[...]
> > > Nice idea! This is the kind of power / flexibility / performance, that
> > > you can only get from Linux environments
> > [...]
> > 
> > Errr - no, Sun has been offering setups like this for ages...
> > 
> For FREE? I don't think so!...

Noone said anything about free. Of course, you had to buy the
X-terminals. But that's superceded by Sun Rays. Anyway, the point I
was making: It's neither new, nor Linux-only.

Cheerio,

Thomas
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Re: Linux (not) ready for desktop? [WAS Re: Why is RH9 slower thanWindows98SE. Any advice?]

[Rick Warner]

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 09:21, Panos Platon Tsapralis wrote:

> > Errr - no, Sun has been offering setups like this for ages...
> > 
> For FREE? I don't think so!...

H, well not free, but ...

Forget the server box; you have to buy the hardware no matter what, some
is just more expensive than the others.  I suppose the major complaint
you are making is the cost of the client software.  

Back in the days of yore, around 1991-2, Sun was replacing all their old
Sun-3 (Motorola 68xxx based) boxes with SPARC based stations (Sun-4
line).  During a period you could buy a Sun 3-50 or 3-60 with 17-19 
color monitor for next to nothing.  There was a feely available boot
kernel that could make these function as X terminals.  Not free, but 
darned close.   Sun did not like the concept, and offered folks a
princely sum if they traded in these boxes.  Sigh,  End of a good deal.

- rick warner


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Re: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[MWafkowski]

It would seem to me that since my performance rant that there are a bunch of
problems related to a GUI desktop for Linux that kind of "snaps" as far as
the user experience is concerned (again understanding that one mans speed is
another mans sluggish, etc. etc.)

We're also getting a lot of info/opinions about the specific issues and some
very specific fixes.

My impression so far is that the Linux GUI desktop can be "fixed" by
basically optimizing the individual structures, X, fonts, wm, etc. WITHOUT
starting from scratch (X and associated stuff).

Is that the impression others have. For me it sounds pretty good, certainly
better than I was thinking (in my ignorance 8*).

I'm an old fart but I still have to say *KEWL*

Peace,
Mike Wafkowski

- Original Message -
From: "Gordon Messmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?


> MWafkowski wrote:
> > I'll try to distill my point. At this time there is no full blown GUI
> > (functonality, eye candy, ease of use, etc.) that is not a pig on Linux.
>
> http://www.xfce.org/
>
> > I'm quite willing to concede that the problem might be KDE or Gnome, but
> > since they must reside on X it's hard for me to believe that no one has
> > developed a "full blown" GUI for Linux that does not suck (performance
> > wise - look and feel is obviously a matter or preference) if X were not
part
> > of the problem.
>
> X is part of the problem.  One of the most glaring problems is the
> recently introduced Xrender extension.  Among other things, it's used
> for the also-recently-introduced Xft2 (font display).  Because it's new,
> it's not accelerated.  For a lot of stuff it isn't a huge hit; in other
> situations it is.
>
> Most of X is very small, and very fast.  Xrender will eventually be
> optimized and accelerated.
>
> > If someone wiser in the ways of code and hardware could explain to me if
> > (and how) that's not true I'd be glad to hear and place the "blame"
> > exclusively at the feet of KDE and Gnome.
>
> GNOME and KDE pay a lot for their eye candy:  root window drawn by an
> application rather than cached in the server, theme engines, alpha
> blended icons...  All of this is currently done in software and isn't
> well optimized.
>
>
> > But then why is there not an
> > alternative to them that does not drag like a boat anchor on anything
but
> > state-of-the-art hardware?
>
> Because optimization is hard?
>
>
>
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RE: running mail command on very large mailbox causes segmentation fault, rh73

[Lazor, Ed]

> > Ahhh. They renamed it since I used it.  That explains it.  Thanks.
> 
> 6.2: nmh-1.0.3-6x.i386.rpm
> 5.2: nmh-0.27-1.i386.rpm
> 5.1: nmh-0.24-7.i386.rpm

Yup.  It's been a while since I used it.  Around '94 to be exact...

-Ed




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Re: Which window manager I should use? Blackbox, FWM, or something else?

[T. Ribbrock]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 04:13:42PM -0500, Apollo (Carmel Entertainment) wrote:
[...]
> My question is, which WM will do best job (and will be fastest) to do this:
> Desktop would just be with a graphic background (company name in the
> background), there would be only several icons on the desktop to launch
> OpenOffice applications and several Wine emulated MS apps.
> 
> Which window manager I should go with?

I can recommend Window Maker, which would seem to fit the bill very
well. Unfortunately, RH decided not to include it anymore, but you can
either rebuild the RH8 ones or the Mandrake RPMs, the latter being
newer.

Have a look at http://www.windowmaker.org

Cheerio,

Thomas
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Re: Linux (not) ready for desktop? [WAS Re: Why is RH9 slowerthan Windows98SE. Any advice?]

[Panos Platon Tsapralis]

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 17:32, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 01:18:31PM +0300, Panos Platon Tsapralis wrote:
> > On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 12:16, Peter Peltonen wrote:
> > 
> > > Instead of 50 workstations under heavy load have 50 clients getting
> > > their X sessions from a server having good hardware and lots of memory.
> > > Makes system administration a lot easier too. You could even make the X
> > > clients diskless. 
> > > 
> > Nice idea! This is the kind of power / flexibility / performance, that
> > you can only get from Linux environments
> [...]
> 
> Errr - no, Sun has been offering setups like this for ages...
> 
For FREE? I don't think so!...

Ans Terminal Server / Citrix / other crap is not equally good either:
they cost an arm and a leg to acquire - not to mention setup &
administration...

> Cheerio,
> 
> Thomas
> -- 
> ==> RH List Archive: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=redhat-list&r=1&w=2 <==
> -
> Thomas Ribbrockhttp://www.ribbrock.org
>   "You have to live on the edge of reality - to make your dreams come true!"
-- 
Panos Platon Tsapralis,
Software Engineer,
SAP-R/3 specialist, ABAP/4 developer,
Registered Linux User #305894,
Ximian Evolution (ver.1.4) on Red Hat Linux (8.0),
Athens, GREECE,
cell-phone: +306946462857, fax: +302108054420,
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Which window manager I should use? Blackbox, FWM, or somethingelse?

[Stephen Kuhn]

On Thu, 2003-06-26 at 07:13, Apollo (Carmel Entertainment) wrote:
> So after looking at the thread I started (the one about why RH90 is slower than
> Win98) I came to conlusion that I will move people to Linux in stages. First I
> want to change common use workstations to linux.
> My question is, which WM will do best job (and will be fastest) to do this:
> Desktop would just be with a graphic background (company name in the
> background), there would be only several icons on the desktop to launch
> OpenOffice applications and several Wine emulated MS apps.
> 
> Which window manager I should go with?

You could use ROX as your session manager and BB as the window manager;
then you'd have the ability to have set icons on a desktop along with a
graphic background, and you can then limit the root menu for BB so the
users would be "locked" into a particular setup.

-- 
Thu Jun 26 08:00:00 EST 2003
 08:00:00 up 1 day,  7:46,  2 users,  load average: 0.61, 0.49, 0.38
-
|____  |kuhn media australia|
|   /-oo /| |'-.   |http://kma.0catch.com   |
|  .\__/ || |   |  ||
|   _ /  `._ \|_|_.-'  |stephen kuhn|
|  | /  \__.`=._) (_   | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
-
 linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 & RH 7.3  
 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586
-
 * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer *

Many people are secretly interested in life.


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mount USB drive

[Alan Giltinan]

Hi all,

I am trying to mount my 120GB harddrive as hda3 (hda1 and 2 already
taken) on RH8

But it is a USB drive. How do i mount a USB drive and will the 120GB be
a problem?

Thanks in advance

Yours sincerely,
Alan Giltinan,
Environmental Monitoring and Space Science Group,
Department of Applied Physics and Instrumentation,
Cork Institute of Technology,
Bishopstown,
Cork,
Ireland.
 
Tel:+353 21 4326297
Fax:+353 21 4345191
 
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.emssg.cit.ie



---Legal  Disclaimer---

The above electronic mail transmission is confidential and intended only for the 
person to whom it is addressed. Its contents may be protected by legal and/or 
professional privilege. Should it be received by you in error please contact the 
sender at the above quoted email address. Any unauthorised form of reproduction of 
this message is strictly prohibited. The Institute does not guarantee the security of 
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RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Bret Hughes]

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 16:27, Rick Warner wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 13:53, Jonathan Bartlett wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Gnome and KDE are NOT X implementations any more than GIMP is an X
> > implementation.  Gnome and KDE are X _applications_.  X implementations
> > include the server, the font server, and Xlib, and maybe a few other
> > things.
> 
> Jonathan, we will have to disagree on the semantics.  I believe that a 
> set of related applications and the interface to create them is an
> implementation.  It is not a complete X package as it does not include
> the server (and by the way, a font is server is not required for an
> X server; X existed for years without font servers; font servers just
> make it easy to have one set of fonts for all X servers rather than
> having a local set of all the fonts on each server).
> 
> There is a HUGE difference in the scope of GIMP and Gnome for this
> discussion.  GIMP is pure and simple an X application (client).  Gnome
> is a set of applications and interfaces that are mainly X clients but
> have the specific purpose of managing the user interface.  That, in my
> book, is an implementation.   AFAIK GIMP has no API for managing a UI,
> Gnome does.

Bad example.  what do you think gtk is?  

[EMAIL PROTECTED] bhughes]$ rpm -qi gtk2 
Name: gtk2 Relocations: (not
relocateable)
Version : 2.0.2 Vendor: Red Hat, Inc.
Release : 4 Build Date: Mon 15 Apr 2002
04:56:00 PM CDT
Install date: Mon 30 Dec 2002 12:19:13 PM CST  Build Host:
porky.devel.redhat.com
Group   : System Environment/Libraries   Source RPM:
gtk2-2.0.2-4.src.rpm
Size: 5414933  License: LGPL
Packager: Red Hat, Inc. 
URL : http://www.gtk.org
Summary : The GIMP ToolKit (GTK+), a library for creating GUIs for
X.
Description :
GTK+ is a multi-platform toolkit for creating graphical user
interfaces. Offering a complete set of widgets, GTK+ is suitable for
projects ranging from small one-off tools to complete application
suites.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] bhughes]$ 


IIUC the gimp team built a set of widgets and other tools for this very
purpose. 

Bret


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Re: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Gordon Messmer]

MWafkowski wrote:
I'll try to distill my point. At this time there is no full blown GUI
(functonality, eye candy, ease of use, etc.) that is not a pig on Linux.
http://www.xfce.org/

I'm quite willing to concede that the problem might be KDE or Gnome, but
since they must reside on X it's hard for me to believe that no one has
developed a "full blown" GUI for Linux that does not suck (performance
wise - look and feel is obviously a matter or preference) if X were not part
of the problem.
X is part of the problem.  One of the most glaring problems is the 
recently introduced Xrender extension.  Among other things, it's used 
for the also-recently-introduced Xft2 (font display).  Because it's new, 
it's not accelerated.  For a lot of stuff it isn't a huge hit; in other 
situations it is.

Most of X is very small, and very fast.  Xrender will eventually be 
optimized and accelerated.

If someone wiser in the ways of code and hardware could explain to me if
(and how) that's not true I'd be glad to hear and place the "blame"
exclusively at the feet of KDE and Gnome.
GNOME and KDE pay a lot for their eye candy:  root window drawn by an 
application rather than cached in the server, theme engines, alpha 
blended icons...  All of this is currently done in software and isn't 
well optimized.


But then why is there not an
alternative to them that does not drag like a boat anchor on anything but
state-of-the-art hardware?
Because optimization is hard?



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Re: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[enloop]

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 16:48, Cliff Wells wrote:
> > OSX *is* essentially FreeBSD. As such, it sure does use X as the 

> And being FreeBSD doesn't imply the existence of X. 

> Unfortunately, I can't find anything describing what they *do* use
> (aside from Quartz and Aqua, which don't appear to be the core graphics
> subsystem).

Apologies for jumping in, but as I write this there's a RedHat and an
OSX machine on my desk.

It is not accurate to say that OS X is essentially FreeBSD. Pieces of
FreeBSD are there, as are portions of Mach and other non-BSD projects.
Plus, Apple's own additions.  I've used FreeBSD and it is not OS X; and
vice versa.

Quartz and Aqua are the core graphics systems. Quartz is the
graphics-handling engine, and Aqua is what you see on the screen. One of
the really nice things about Quartz is that it offloads calculations to
a supported graphics card, accelerating your display that much more.

Apple has offered a beta verson of X for download for several months. No
X applications are offered by Apple, but many X apps have been ported
via the Fink project and other efforts. Apple's X will, if you wish,
take over your display, or you can mix X and Aqua apps on your display
at the same time. When you done with it, you simply close it and go back
to the standard Aqua display.

Apple has announced that X will be included with their next OS rollout.
How or if they intend to make use of it remains to be seen.


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RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Rick Warner]

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 13:53, Jonathan Bartlett wrote:

> 
> Gnome and KDE are NOT X implementations any more than GIMP is an X
> implementation.  Gnome and KDE are X _applications_.  X implementations
> include the server, the font server, and Xlib, and maybe a few other
> things.

Jonathan, we will have to disagree on the semantics.  I believe that a 
set of related applications and the interface to create them is an
implementation.  It is not a complete X package as it does not include
the server (and by the way, a font is server is not required for an
X server; X existed for years without font servers; font servers just
make it easy to have one set of fonts for all X servers rather than
having a local set of all the fonts on each server).

There is a HUGE difference in the scope of GIMP and Gnome for this
discussion.  GIMP is pure and simple an X application (client).  Gnome
is a set of applications and interfaces that are mainly X clients but
have the specific purpose of managing the user interface.  That, in my
book, is an implementation.   AFAIK GIMP has no API for managing a UI,
Gnome does.

> This is not an issue locally.  It's inter-process communication.  That
> overhead is there no matter what.

It is not IPC, which has a specific meaning.  It is network
communication.  There is overhead, but it can be optimized.  10 years
ago there was a battle over which competing compressed stream
implementation to adopt.  In the end, X/Org bailed and put out the
concept of LBX, with a poorly implemented sample in the code distro.
NCD was the proponent of one alternative.  The idea of a compressed
network stream can and should be revived.  Overhead is necessary, but it
could be lessened, and its footprint lessened even more with good
compression.
 
> 
> So, X is not slow.  Some X applications are.  If you don't like these, why
> not use different ones?  Like XFCE?  MWM?  WindowMaker?  Enlightenment?

Hey I am the one saying it is not an X problem and that there are better
performing alternatives than Gnome or KDE.  And mwm itself is just a
window manager; for the context of this discussion the equivalence would
be to say 'Motif', the implementation, rather than just one application
of the implementation.

- rick warner


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Re: How to disable password expiration in text mode, RH9

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Zoki wrote:

> Le 25/06/2003 15:41, « Billy Davis » <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :
> 
> > Can anybody tell us how to disable password expiration in TEXT mode under
> > RH9?
> 
> 
> *** Yep. You open /etc/shadow with your editor and you delete the last entry
> of each line.
> 

or you could just check out the "chage" command.  if you plan on doing
any serious user/group management, you're advised to take at least a 
brief look at all of the commands that come with the shadow-utils
RPM:

$ rpm -ql shadow-utils

rday

p.s.  and while we're on the topic, for those of you (us) that
modify these files by hand, does anyone actually *use* vipw or vigr?
just curious.

--

Robert P. J. Day
Eno River Technologies
Unix, Linux and Open Source training
Waterloo, Ontario

www.enoriver.com


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slow start

[Celso Pinto]

Hi all,

lately i've been having some problems launching applications like
LimeWire, OpenOffice.org or FileRoller. They take forever to load, at
least two minutes before splash screen is displayed. Has anyone ran into
this kind of problem?

One other issue is that i cannot load the Themes/Preferences window.
When i click on it, it appears in the taskbar but shortly after it
disappears. Once again, does anyone have a solution for this?

Thanks in advance,
Celso Pinto


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Which window manager I should use? Blackbox, FWM, or something else?

[Apollo (Carmel Entertainment)]

So after looking at the thread I started (the one about why RH90 is slower than
Win98) I came to conlusion that I will move people to Linux in stages. First I
want to change common use workstations to linux.
My question is, which WM will do best job (and will be fastest) to do this:
Desktop would just be with a graphic background (company name in the
background), there would be only several icons on the desktop to launch
OpenOffice applications and several Wine emulated MS apps.

Which window manager I should go with?


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Re: Problem Of pppd and mgetty

[Gordon Messmer]

Nicholas wrote:
   I had installed a ppp-2.4.1-10 and  mgetty-1.1.30-2 in linux box 8.0
I was trying to configure a dial-in server using modem.
...
Problem :
1. I am trying to use a win98 workstation dialup networking to dial to 
the server,
but it shows error 629 and disconnect me from the server. Anybody can help?
Are you seeing errors in your logs?  I haven't set up a dial-up server 
with 8.0, but there've been problems with pppd not supporting CBCP, and 
I don't know if those ever really got fixed.



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Re: Apache on RH9

[Cornelius Kölbel]

Hello Thomas,

that would be a very good point to start, I think.
What services can be made running chrooted.
Is there anywhere some good documentation?
Why does a major distribution does not support this by default?
Regards
Cornelius
T. Ribbrock wrote:

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 12:28:59PM -0500, Ed Wilts wrote:
 

One of the key differences between IIS and Apache is the way the web
server is started.
   

[...]
 

On Linux, however, the web server almost always run under a non-privileged
account.  If Apache is penetrated, the worst the attacker can do is run
non-privileged code - they may access web server files and world
readable and writable files, but they won't be able to modify your
system binaries nor startups.
   

[...]

Is Apache actually running chrooted under RHL9? If so, an attacker
could do even less, as Apache doesn't even have access to the whole
file system, as it's running in its own little subset thereof.
OpenBSD for example runs Apache chrooted.

Cheerio,

Thomas
 



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Re: Problem in using syslog during system init?

[Michael Schwendt]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:23:06 +1000, Matthew Richards wrote:

> I know this is not much, but I have noticed that messages are not logged to 
> /var/log/messages
> in chronological order during system startup. It is possible, depending on your 
> system
> configuration and the number of messages generated during system startup, that some 
> of your
> messages are being rolled over into /var/log/messages.1 or similar.

Hmmm, *that* would be very unusual since by default it is a
logrotate cron job that moves /var/log/messages to /var/log/messages.1
on a weekly basis. I wouldn't expect that job to rotate the logs
while rc.sysinit is executed.

- -- 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE++aa/0iMVcrivHFQRAtvHAJ0SFuzQ0LvBQWCdkwGt8lN3IJ8KwwCfb1yP
UrwEv+T4EtPHb9a3p8FHfOg=
=vraR
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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problem creating files in /proc

[tirumal b]

hello

   I tried to create certain files in /proc using the
proc_fs.h interface but i get the following errors. I
have also included my program too. Could any one tell
me what is the error.

Thank you


gcc -c example.c
In file included from example.c:2:
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:47: parse error before
"off_t"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:51: parse error before
"off_t"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:57: parse error before
"mode_t"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:59: parse error before
"uid"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:60: parse error before
"gid"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:70: parse error before
"count"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:72: parse error before
"rdev"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:176: parse error before
"mode_t"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:181: parse error before
"mode_t"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:186: parse error before
"mode_t"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:192: parse error before
"mode_t"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:193: parse error before
"off_t"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:193:
`create_proc_read_entry' declared as function
returning a function
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:196: parse error before
"mode_t"
/usr/include/linux/proc_fs.h:203: parse error before
"void"


/*example.c*/
#include
#include
#include
main()
{
const char* name="CPU";
mode_t mode=444;
struct proc_dir_entry *l;
l=create_proc_entry(name,mode,NULL);
}




__
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


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RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Jonathan Bartlett]

> Again, Gnome and KDE are a collection of X clients and the API for
> creating those clients.  Nothing in Gnome or KDE attempt to replace or
> re-invent the X server.  And since clients are part and parcel of the X
> system, the problem is in part of certain X implementations specifically
> Gnome and KDE.

Gnome and KDE are NOT X implementations any more than GIMP is an X
implementation.  Gnome and KDE are X _applications_.  X implementations
include the server, the font server, and Xlib, and maybe a few other
things.

> Size is not the issue, not in and of itself.  The only real problem in
> the X server is that it is rather chatty; lots of bandwidth because it
> is constantly polling for events then transmitting events and actions
> between the client and server.  The part that needs more work in the
> basic server is optimizing the stream of this on-going traffic.  An

This is not an issue locally.  It's inter-process communication.  That
overhead is there no matter what.

> adjunct to the server are the video drivers, and the X86 world is
> awash in umpteen gazillion video chips and derived boards.  The drivers
> for this milieu of chips and boards can use some work to make sure that
> there are accelerated X servers for them (too many boards require the
> use of the non-accelerated SVGA server in the XFree86 world).

This is a real problem, but it's not X's fault.

> The real work needs to be done on the client side.   Again, Gnome and
> KDE are collections of X clients.  Their only connection with the server

So, X is not slow.  Some X applications are.  If you don't like these, why
not use different ones?  Like XFCE?  MWM?  WindowMaker?  Enlightenment?



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Re: Apache RPMs?

[oz0]

 Original Message - 
From: "Chad Udell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:49 AM
Subject: Apache RPMs?


> Is there a newer Apache RPM for Redhat available anywhere? I am trying
> to update my PHP to 4.3.2 (I needed to add support for Sybase, too),
> but I can not 'make' as it complains that Apache needs to newer than
> 2.0.44... this led me on the never ending search to update my
> dependencies... heh.
>

> Chad

when I tried it told me that the Apache needed to be greater than or equal
to 2.0.44 - are  you sure it needs to be greater than ?

I went back to 1.3 apache and redhat 7.3 at that point and installed php
4.3.2 fine

Jim:-)



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Re: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Cliff Wells]

On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 19:14, Shaun T. Erickson wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> > 
> > Despite its name, OSX doesn't use X.
> 
> OSX *is* essentially FreeBSD. As such, it sure does use X as the 
> windowing system,

And being FreeBSD doesn't imply the existence of X. 

If you think otherwise, perhaps Apple offering X11 for OSX as *a
separate add-on* will convince you otherwise:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/x11formacosx.html

Unfortunately, I can't find anything describing what they *do* use
(aside from Quartz and Aqua, which don't appear to be the core graphics
subsystem).

>  according to every MAC OSX user I know. 

You really think people who only have *one* mouse button know anything
about X? 

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555


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Re: How to disable password expiration in text mode, RH9

[Zoki]

Le 25/06/2003 15:41, « Billy Davis » <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :

> Can anybody tell us how to disable password expiration in TEXT mode under
> RH9?


*** Yep. You open /etc/shadow with your editor and you delete the last entry
of each line.

-- 
Cheers,
Zoran.

"Home is where you hang your @"


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Re: looking for a library that can recognize php code

[Bret Hughes]

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 14:44, Chris W. Parker wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> I'm looking to make a source code documenting program and instead of reinventing the 
> wheel* I'd like to use a ready made wheel so to speak. Are there any libraries out 
> there (I am guessing maybe in C or Perl) that recognize PHP and know what's what? 
> That is, if I fed it a string or a complete page of source code I would like to be 
> albe to know the names of all the functions and the names of all the variables.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 

I can't really help except to point out that anything that does syntax
highlighting also has this information.  vi for instance. 

look in /usr/share/vim/vim61/syntax

Bret


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RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Rick Warner]

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 11:20, Michael Kalus wrote:

> Excuse me, but by my understanding X itself is not a UI. It is just a Server
> that doesn't really do much but draw a window. If you start X without a
> windowserver it is pretty fast and looks extremely ugly.

X is not just the server.  X is a client-server model for windowing.
MIT defined it that way, we do not have the right to restrict the
definition to the server only (besides, the model does not make sense
without the clients).  The WM is a client and as such is as much a 
part of X as is the piece that polls the keyboard for input.
 
> > In the end, my take is we do not need to replace X, just 
> > optimize what is there.
> 
> I don't think the problem is X itself, I think the problem is in what people
> try to do with it. More optimization on behalf of GNOME and KDE will most
> likely work better than trying to re-invent the X Server.

Again, Gnome and KDE are a collection of X clients and the API for
creating those clients.  Nothing in Gnome or KDE attempt to replace or
re-invent the X server.  And since clients are part and parcel of the X
system, the problem is in part of certain X implementations specifically
Gnome and KDE.
 
> By my understanding (and I am not a programmer) X is actually pretty small
> for what it is doing.

Again, do not talk of X as if it is the server only.  X is a
client-server system.  The X server is not all that small, and it is
only part of X, not all of X.

Size is not the issue, not in and of itself.  The only real problem in
the X server is that it is rather chatty; lots of bandwidth because it
is constantly polling for events then transmitting events and actions
between the client and server.  The part that needs more work in the
basic server is optimizing the stream of this on-going traffic.  An
adjunct to the server are the video drivers, and the X86 world is 
awash in umpteen gazillion video chips and derived boards.  The drivers
for this milieu of chips and boards can use some work to make sure that
there are accelerated X servers for them (too many boards require the
use of the non-accelerated SVGA server in the XFree86 world).

The real work needs to be done on the client side.   Again, Gnome and
KDE are collections of X clients.  Their only connection with the server
is that they talk to it, and depend on it.  The fact that non-Gnome and
non-KDE interfaces exist for XFree86 that are much better performing is
an indication that the major problem is NOT the server, but rather some
of the clients that need optimization.  

- rick warner


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RE: Where's my tape drive?

[Cleveland]

Hello,

> If Linux doesn't see the SCSI adapter - then it won't see the tape 
> drive. Very simple.

Actually, that was the weird thing. It saw the adapter, but not the
drive. I took it off the shelf this morning to take a look inside it,
and noticed that it was plugged into an array controller. I unplugged it
from there, and plugged it into the controller on the motherboard. Now
it works great.

Thanks for all your help!

Jody


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Re: Streaming windows media files from a RH8 Webserver

[Apollo (Carmel Entertainment)]

Helix Media Server from Real Networks. Go to realnetworks.com (people who make
RealPlayer) and download linux binary. I have been running Helix for past 2
years and it is the best server software (free for under 10 concurent clients).



Quoting Jonathan Bartlett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I'm not really sure.  However, the Windows Streaming protocol is actually
> just http.
> 
> For example, if you ever get one of those "streaming-only" videos, you can
> actually easily download them.  They usually are just a small XML file
> with the locations of the videos.  Simply modify the mms:// to http:// in
> all of the URLs, and then download with wget.  Then you can play them with
> mplayer.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not for certain if it works the other way.  For example, can
> you use a regular http server to serve up mms:// URLs - I'm not sure.
> 
> Jon
> 
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Paul Lee wrote:
> 
> > Are there any options for streaming windows media files (*.wmv) from a RH8
> > webserver? I know that I could probably use the Quicktime Streaming
> server,
> > but have had a request from one of my users that we be able to stream the
> > windows media files.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > Paul Lee
> > Network Administrator
> >
> > McMillan Smith & Partners
> > Architects, PLLC
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > --
> > redhat-list mailing list
> > unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
> >
> 
> 
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> 


Apolinaras "Apollo" Sinkevicius
Carmel Music & Entertainment, LLC 
701 Main Street 
Evanston, IL 60202 
Phone: (847) 864-5969 X110
  Fax: (847) 864-6149 
Toll-free: 800-276-5969 X110
   e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 web-site:  http://carmelme.com 

Having an event in Chicago, or would you like to bring Chicago entertainment 
to your event? Give Carmel Music & Entertainment a call for the finest 
entertainment available in Chicago.


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core dump mechanism in linux.

[Ancha Madhav-MANCHA1]

Title: Message



Hi,
 
   Can 
some one help clarify the core dump file mechanism on linux 2.4.X 
please?
 
a) By default where 
is the core dump file written to? Is it written to the current working directory 
or the location of teh executable?
b) Can the location 
of the core dump file be changed?
c) Can the name of 
the core dump file be changed?
 
with 
thanks,
Madhav.

Re[2]: PHP upgrade difficulties -- no apxs file

[George]

Thanks Jim, that explains everything.

Esteban -- I loaded PHP and Apache from the RH 8 rpms, which means the
original files were compiled at Red Hat.  At Red Hat they used apxs to
compile PHP, but they are included not included on the basic Apache
rpm which I installed on my server.  I need to upload the Apache
development rpm to make it work.

Peace,
G
---

Wednesday, June 25, 2003, 4:57:01 AM, you wrote:

> here's a clip from an earlier reply when I asked a similar question :-) -
> see below

> cheers
> Jim
> - Original Message - 
> From: "George" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:46 AM
> Subject: PHP upgrade difficulties -- no apxs file


>> Howdy
>>
>>   I'm trying to upgrade my RH 8 server from PHP 4.2.2 to 4.3.2
>>
>>   To configure the PHP code, I need to send it through Apache's apxs
>>   perl code.  It is used to build shared Apache 2.0 modules.  It does
>>   not appear on my machine, though it appears that it was run during
>>   the previous PHP install.
>>
>>   How should I add it to my machine?
>>   mod_so.c is running in httpd.
>>

> apxs comes from the apache-devel RPM. Probably you're missing that.

> A better subject line might attract better responses, eg "apxs on redhat 9?"
> or something like that? Cheers,
> -- 
> Cameron Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> DoD#743
> http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/



> ---
> Outgoing mail appears to be Virus Free.
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Re: what makes linux so secure?

[Ed Wilts]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 12:24:00PM -0700, Jonathan Bartlett wrote:
> Another thing is that I really think that for system data, ACLs cause more
> security problems than they help.  Auditting a Linux system is much easier
> than an NT box, because you don't have ACLs to worry with.

I haven't chuckled this hard for a while.  ACLs, properly implemented,
are absolutely fantastic in any large organization.  My VMScluster can't
survive ACLs - I'd have security holes like crazy without them.

Just because you don't know how to audit for ACLs properly doesn't mean
they're not a good thing - it means your audit tools suck.

> What's SUID on my machine?

SUID is a hack for a system that doesn't have proper privilege and
access mechanisms.  Give me VMS security with its privileges and ACLs
any day of the week.  Privilege should not be a binary function.

-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Member #1, Red Hat Community Ambassador Program


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Export sound to another server?

[Todd A. Jacobs]

I'm interested in a way to redirect sound to another server. I know esd 
and arts have the capability to bind to sockets, but is there actually a 
way to export sound that isn't application-specific?

For example, I can run xine with the video exported to my local server,
but the sound still plays on the remote server. I'd like to be able to
treat both video *and* sound as a client. How can I do that?

-- 
Sen. Orrin Hatch thinks destroying private property to ensure bigger
campaign contributions from media cartels is "good politics." Let your
senators know that supporting corporate vigilantes will bite them in
the political posterior next election day.


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RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Michael Kalus]

> Interesting.  I didn't know that.  But I guess it makes sense.

I guess one of the things that Apple realized is that with projects like
FINK they actually have access to ton's of applications. The one thing that
prevented most Graphical applications from running was the hassle with
getting X to run on the system, layering an X Server on top of Aqua probably
wasn't that hard to do and all of the sudden their at least trippled the
amount of applications that will be available on the Mac.

What is going to be more interresting to see is if they are going to support
an Aqua theme for X and make it available to developers so that the end user
will never know the difference between a native MacOSX application and a
Unix application.

Michael


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RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Michael Kalus]

> 1)  Writing a full scale graphical environment is time 
> consuming, difficult, and requires a lot of skill.  There are 
> not that many around. The Mac interface, Windows, Sun's 
> SunView, X and X based derivatives (CDE, Gnome, KDE, etc.).  
> Probably a couple of others, certainly the Star interface was 
> used  by Apple and MS for ideas, etc.  X started as an 
> academic project and then was adopted by the *NIX world as 
> the basis for a lot of variants, but the hard work was all 
> done at MIT and everyone leveraged off that investment.  The 
> basic point is that a full blown interface is something that 
> will probably be done only as an academic project or if there 
> is substantial value for selling the interface.  Hence the 
> OpenSource world has moved towards the end of leveraging off 
> the X stuff as the basis for GUI's and trying to lay stuff on 
> top of that to enhance the user experience.  This has the 
> side-effect of making it easy for programmers to write 
> applications for the interface; any Xlib application can be 
> ported to any X environment; it looks better if some higher 
> level widgets are used, but it makes the application level 
> much more enticing to developers.  Cost of a non-X interface 
> and the problem of getting apps for it both argue against 
> such a beast.

Excuse me, but by my understanding X itself is not a UI. It is just a Server
that doesn't really do much but draw a window. If you start X without a
windowserver it is pretty fast and looks extremely ugly.

> In the end, my take is we do not need to replace X, just 
> optimize what is there.

I don't think the problem is X itself, I think the problem is in what people
try to do with it. More optimization on behalf of GNOME and KDE will most
likely work better than trying to re-invent the X Server.

By my understanding (and I am not a programmer) X is actually pretty small
for what it is doing.

Michael


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looking for a library that can recognize php code

[Chris W. Parker]

Hello.

I'm looking to make a source code documenting program and instead of reinventing the 
wheel* I'd like to use a ready made wheel so to speak. Are there any libraries out 
there (I am guessing maybe in C or Perl) that recognize PHP and know what's what? That 
is, if I fed it a string or a complete page of source code I would like to be albe to 
know the names of all the functions and the names of all the variables.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Chris.

* I'd be reinventing the wheel if I wrote a collection of regex's that do what PHP 
already does, that is, recognize what's what within the code.


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How to disable password expiration in text mode, RH9

[Billy Davis]

Can anybody tell us how to disable password expiration in TEXT mode under
RH9?

Thanks,
BDavis


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Re: Digital Voice Recorders (OT?)

[Vince Scimeca]

Check out the Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20 
http://www.archos.com/products/prw_500326_specs.html

I don't personally use this, but I have heard that it works under
linux.  It has a 20G hard drive and also acts as an mp3 player/data
storage device.  Not sure if this is what you are looking for or not.

Vince

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 15:20, Blake Thornton wrote:
> Has anyone found a digital voice recorder that they like that works well
> with linux.
> 
> Specifically, it seems that the issues I am finding are: 
> 
> - memory card is important so that I can use a card reader to transfer
> files to the computer.
> 
> - file format.  Some of these recorders store files in an odd format (I
> bought a radio shack unit that records in .dvr files. .mp3 or .wav would
> be much more useful and easier to deal with).
> 
> Thanks for any help,
> Blake



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Re: what makes linux so secure?

[Jonathan Bartlett]

Another thing is that I really think that for system data, ACLs cause more
security problems than they help.  Auditting a Linux system is much easier
than an NT box, because you don't have ACLs to worry with.

If you have trouble installing something in WinLand, what do you do?  You
go off messing w/ ACLs.  Then, when you finally get it fixed, how do you
go back closing off the holes you've opened?  There's no way to get a
quick list of who accesses what.  With UNIX-based systems you have user,
group, and owner, with relevant permissions.  It is easy to find such
things when they are out-of-whack, easy to correct, etc.

What's SUID on my machine?

find / -perm +4000

Who can do what with the each file in this directory?

ls -l

With Windows, you have to inspect each file individually to find who has
the proper ACLs.

Now, with _user_ data, ACLs are nice.  What's really great is that, in
Linux, you can use different filesystems, and use one that is ACL-capable
for your user directories and one that is not for your system directories.

Jon

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Kent Borg wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:31:08AM -0700, Chris W. Parker wrote:
>
> > Please list for me reasons why you believe (or know for a fact) that
> > Linux is more secure than our current setup. Let's assume two
> > different situations: 1. Out of the box with a standard install,
>
> I don't know that it is.  You must stay up to date or stay off the
> internet.  Things might cool down in a few years (I think security
> holes are being fixed faster than they are being made).
>
> > 2. Standard install, fully patched.
>
> 1. Open code.  What's public is more likely to be examined, and
>security holes publicized and fixed.  Open source people seem to
>care about security.  MS mostly just talks about security, and only
>recently at that.  There are lots of examples of companies told
>about security problems, ignoring (or even threatening) the
>messenger, until that is, the problem is publicized.
>
> 2. Open code.  Source code that might be looked at by other programers
>(particularly the kernel itself) will be higher quality in the
>first place (can you say embarrassment?) than will
>compile-sell-and-forget proprietary code.
>
> 3. There is no marketing department in most open source projects to
>drive mis-features for features sake, mis-features that compromise
>security.  When marketing does promote security it is frequently
>snake-oil solutions when most security holes are simply bugs, and
>marketing never really cares about bugs--just the biggest bugs.
>
> 4. More information and control available to you in how you configure
>things.
>
> 5. To have decent security you have to learn a little something about
>security yourself.  If you do Linux you know you have to learn
>something.  If you do MS you might think there is a "Do what you
>are supposed to and Bill will take care of you."-solution.  There
>isn't, but the fact that MS fights your taking responsibility
>leaves you little choice.
>
>
> -kb, the Kent who thinks firewalls are inappropriately popular because
> MS gives users so little alternative.
>
>
> --
> redhat-list mailing list
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RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Jonathan Bartlett]

> Are these commercial xservers i586/linux compatible?

Yes

> Can I swap them out for say, a md91 distro to get better performance?

Yes - I haven't tried it myself so I can't say personally about
performance, but others have thought it to be good.

Of course, I think X performs just fine.  If you renice -20 the X process,
the Window Manager, and the panel, you will notice a definite improvement
(that's how Windows does it).

http://www.metrolink.com/products/metrox/index.html

Jon

>
> Any OSS projects to 're-invent' the wheel?
>
> I'm not mocking rick's response, but the 'wheel' seems to be square and made
> of stone.
>
>  -Original Message-
> From: Jonathan Bartlett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:11 AM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?
>
> In addition, there are alternatives to XFree86.  There are commercial X
> servers that work very well, that have nothing to do with XFree86.
>
> Also, gtk (not GNOME, though) applications can run directly on the
> framebuffer, I believe.
>
>
>
> Jon
>
> On 25 Jun 2003, Rick Warner wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 10:09, Bailo, John wrote:
> > > With all the alternatives in Linux, are there alternatives to X itself?
> > >
> > > Shouldn't there be more than one graphics servers available to Linux?
> >
> > None as far as I know.  But in thinking about the question I have two
> > responses.
> >
> > 1)  Writing a full scale graphical environment is time consuming,
> > difficult, and requires a lot of skill.  There are not that many around.
> > The Mac interface, Windows, Sun's SunView, X and X based derivatives
> > (CDE, Gnome, KDE, etc.).  Probably a couple of others, certainly the
> > Star interface was used  by Apple and MS for ideas, etc.  X started as
> > an academic project and then was adopted by the *NIX world as the basis
> > for a lot of variants, but the hard work was all done at MIT and
> > everyone leveraged off that investment.  The basic point is that a
> > full blown interface is something that will probably be done only as
> > an academic project or if there is substantial value for selling the
> > interface.  Hence the OpenSource world has moved towards the end of
> > leveraging off the X stuff as the basis for GUI's and trying to lay
> > stuff on top of that to enhance the user experience.  This has the
> > side-effect of making it easy for programmers to write applications for
> > the interface; any Xlib application can be ported to any X environment;
> > it looks better if some higher level widgets are used, but it makes the
> > application level much more enticing to developers.  Cost of a non-X
> > interface and the problem of getting apps for it both argue against such
> > a beast.
> >
> > 2) X in and of itself has a number of advantages (some of which are
> > are also disadvantages).  It is designed to run on a network with
> > distributed clients, there are low level API's that developers can use,
> > the core of the interface is freely available, etc.  The issue is
> > performance, but that can be dealt with as a separate issue.  There are
> > three main sources of performance issues.  First, the WM and other
> > stuff overlying X can be bloated and non-optimized.  KDE and Gnome
> > are both fighting with this, there are alternatives that are lighter
> > weight and better as others have noted.  Second, video drivers are
> > a problem.  There needs to be incentives for manufacturers to either
> > provide good drivers for Linux, or provide info to programmers that
> > will do the drivers.  In the early days of Linux, there was a boycott
> > against Diamond and their cards as they would not provide data to
> > driver writers.  Diamond changed their minds and a lot of folks then
> > bought Diamond cards as the accelerated drivers became some of the
> > best around.  Too many cards these days run with non-accelerated drivers
> > due to 'secrecy' of the card makers.  Good drivers on good cards do
> > make a difference - a big one.  Third, the fact that X handles
> > everything via the network stack can drag down performance.  The proper
> > way to handle this is to optimize and compress the stream.  Low
> > bandwidth X stuff is around, and there have been proprietary solutions
> > that solve this problem.  I'd rather see more effort put in this area
> > than folks trying to re-invent the wheel.
> >
> > In the end, my take is we do not need to replace X, just optimize what
> > is there.
> >
> > - rick warner
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
>
>
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Digital Voice Recorders (OT?)

[Blake Thornton]

Has anyone found a digital voice recorder that they like that works well
with linux.

Specifically, it seems that the issues I am finding are: 

- memory card is important so that I can use a card reader to transfer
files to the computer.

- file format.  Some of these recorders store files in an odd format (I
bought a radio shack unit that records in .dvr files. .mp3 or .wav would
be much more useful and easier to deal with).

Thanks for any help,
Blake


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RE: MS Exchange Alternatives?

[Jim Crippen]

You may want to look as Samsung's Contact Server.  We're testing it as a
replacement for Exchange and found it to be better than OpenExchange.  It
also has a MAPI client for Outlook that lets the users share folders and
such as they do on Exchange.


-Original Message-
From: Aly Dharshi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MS Exchange Alternatives?


They say that courier mail system is a sort of replacement for exchange
systems. 
See http://www.courier-mta.org/ hopefully that help.

Aly

Arden Norder wrote:
> Hey Ed,
> 
> SuSE OpenExchange is your answer.
> Weŕe running it now. Had some challenges with the migration from
MSExchange 5.5 but the 
> support was good (a bit slow, but good).
> 1240 Euro for the complete SuSE enterprise server OS and OpenExchange
software with 
> 10 licences.
> 
> Looked at other alternatives but none were found as a replacement for
MSExchange - 
> lots for if your starting new.
> 
> I am a huge RedHat fan and the OpenExchange machine is the only SuSe
machine in the 
> house - everything else (4 servers)is RH Advanced Server.
> 
> Good luck
> Arden
> 
> Lazor  Ed  wrote the Jun 24, 2003 10:18 PM:
> 
> 
>>Hi :) 
>> 
>>Do you know of Linux/Redhat-based solution that could serve  
>>Outlook clients with email, individual / shared calendaring, and  
>>shared address books / contacts? 
>> 
>>Thanks 
>> 
>>Ed 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Aly S.P Dharshi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Student System Administrator/Network Analyst LDAP Project
Department of Computer Science and Mathematics
University of Lethbridge

  "A good speech is like a good dress
  that's short enough to be interesting
  and long enough to cover the subject"




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Re: Adding Apache & My SQL

[Joseph A Nagy Jr]

Billy wrote:
You need MySQL, Apache 1.3.27 or 2.0.45, and latest PHP. If you are
installing from RPM, use a package manager like RedCarpet.


Do you know the names of the MySQL packages I need to search on, do I need a
MySQL-server package also? What is the recommended version of MySql for 7.3?
Billy


If you get RedCarpet, the most up to date packages for your system will 
be offered for download and install.

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Message,
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Re: what makes linux so secure?

[Kent Borg]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:31:08AM -0700, Chris W. Parker wrote:

> Please list for me reasons why you believe (or know for a fact) that
> Linux is more secure than our current setup. Let's assume two
> different situations: 1. Out of the box with a standard install,

I don't know that it is.  You must stay up to date or stay off the
internet.  Things might cool down in a few years (I think security
holes are being fixed faster than they are being made).

> 2. Standard install, fully patched.
 
1. Open code.  What's public is more likely to be examined, and
   security holes publicized and fixed.  Open source people seem to
   care about security.  MS mostly just talks about security, and only
   recently at that.  There are lots of examples of companies told
   about security problems, ignoring (or even threatening) the
   messenger, until that is, the problem is publicized.  

2. Open code.  Source code that might be looked at by other programers
   (particularly the kernel itself) will be higher quality in the
   first place (can you say embarrassment?) than will
   compile-sell-and-forget proprietary code.

3. There is no marketing department in most open source projects to
   drive mis-features for features sake, mis-features that compromise
   security.  When marketing does promote security it is frequently
   snake-oil solutions when most security holes are simply bugs, and
   marketing never really cares about bugs--just the biggest bugs.

4. More information and control available to you in how you configure
   things.

5. To have decent security you have to learn a little something about
   security yourself.  If you do Linux you know you have to learn
   something.  If you do MS you might think there is a "Do what you
   are supposed to and Bill will take care of you."-solution.  There
   isn't, but the fact that MS fights your taking responsibility
   leaves you little choice.


-kb, the Kent who thinks firewalls are inappropriately popular because
MS gives users so little alternative.


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Re: MS Exchange Alternatives?

[Aly Dharshi]

They say that courier mail system is a sort of replacement for exchange systems. 
See http://www.courier-mta.org/ hopefully that help.

Aly

Arden Norder wrote:
Hey Ed,

SuSE OpenExchange is your answer.
Weŕe running it now. Had some challenges with the migration from MSExchange 5.5 but the 
support was good (a bit slow, but good).
1240 Euro for the complete SuSE enterprise server OS and OpenExchange software with 
10 licences.

Looked at other alternatives but none were found as a replacement for MSExchange - 
lots for if your starting new.

I am a huge RedHat fan and the OpenExchange machine is the only SuSe machine in the 
house - everything else (4 servers)is RH Advanced Server.

Good luck
Arden
Lazor  Ed  wrote the Jun 24, 2003 10:18 PM:


Hi :) 

Do you know of Linux/Redhat-based solution that could serve  
Outlook clients with email, individual / shared calendaring, and  
shared address books / contacts? 

Thanks 

Ed 



--
Aly S.P Dharshi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Student System Administrator/Network Analyst LDAP Project
Department of Computer Science and Mathematics
University of Lethbridge
 "A good speech is like a good dress
 that's short enough to be interesting
 and long enough to cover the subject"


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Apache on RH9 (was: what makes linux so secure?)

[T. Ribbrock]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 12:28:59PM -0500, Ed Wilts wrote:
> One of the key differences between IIS and Apache is the way the web
> server is started.
[...]
> On Linux, however, the web server almost always run under a non-privileged
> account.  If Apache is penetrated, the worst the attacker can do is run
> non-privileged code - they may access web server files and world
> readable and writable files, but they won't be able to modify your
> system binaries nor startups.
[...]

Is Apache actually running chrooted under RHL9? If so, an attacker
could do even less, as Apache doesn't even have access to the whole
file system, as it's running in its own little subset thereof.

OpenBSD for example runs Apache chrooted.

Cheerio,

Thomas
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RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Bailo, John]

Are these commercial xservers i586/linux compatible?

Can I swap them out for say, a md91 distro to get better performance?

Any OSS projects to 're-invent' the wheel?

I'm not mocking rick's response, but the 'wheel' seems to be square and made
of stone.

 -Original Message-
From:   Jonathan Bartlett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent:   Wednesday, June 25, 2003 11:11 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

In addition, there are alternatives to XFree86.  There are commercial X
servers that work very well, that have nothing to do with XFree86.

Also, gtk (not GNOME, though) applications can run directly on the
framebuffer, I believe.



Jon

On 25 Jun 2003, Rick Warner wrote:

> On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 10:09, Bailo, John wrote:
> > With all the alternatives in Linux, are there alternatives to X itself?
> >
> > Shouldn't there be more than one graphics servers available to Linux?
>
> None as far as I know.  But in thinking about the question I have two
> responses.
>
> 1)  Writing a full scale graphical environment is time consuming,
> difficult, and requires a lot of skill.  There are not that many around.
> The Mac interface, Windows, Sun's SunView, X and X based derivatives
> (CDE, Gnome, KDE, etc.).  Probably a couple of others, certainly the
> Star interface was used  by Apple and MS for ideas, etc.  X started as
> an academic project and then was adopted by the *NIX world as the basis
> for a lot of variants, but the hard work was all done at MIT and
> everyone leveraged off that investment.  The basic point is that a
> full blown interface is something that will probably be done only as
> an academic project or if there is substantial value for selling the
> interface.  Hence the OpenSource world has moved towards the end of
> leveraging off the X stuff as the basis for GUI's and trying to lay
> stuff on top of that to enhance the user experience.  This has the
> side-effect of making it easy for programmers to write applications for
> the interface; any Xlib application can be ported to any X environment;
> it looks better if some higher level widgets are used, but it makes the
> application level much more enticing to developers.  Cost of a non-X
> interface and the problem of getting apps for it both argue against such
> a beast.
>
> 2) X in and of itself has a number of advantages (some of which are
> are also disadvantages).  It is designed to run on a network with
> distributed clients, there are low level API's that developers can use,
> the core of the interface is freely available, etc.  The issue is
> performance, but that can be dealt with as a separate issue.  There are
> three main sources of performance issues.  First, the WM and other
> stuff overlying X can be bloated and non-optimized.  KDE and Gnome
> are both fighting with this, there are alternatives that are lighter
> weight and better as others have noted.  Second, video drivers are
> a problem.  There needs to be incentives for manufacturers to either
> provide good drivers for Linux, or provide info to programmers that
> will do the drivers.  In the early days of Linux, there was a boycott
> against Diamond and their cards as they would not provide data to
> driver writers.  Diamond changed their minds and a lot of folks then
> bought Diamond cards as the accelerated drivers became some of the
> best around.  Too many cards these days run with non-accelerated drivers
> due to 'secrecy' of the card makers.  Good drivers on good cards do
> make a difference - a big one.  Third, the fact that X handles
> everything via the network stack can drag down performance.  The proper
> way to handle this is to optimize and compress the stream.  Low
> bandwidth X stuff is around, and there have been proprietary solutions
> that solve this problem.  I'd rather see more effort put in this area
> than folks trying to re-invent the wheel.
>
> In the end, my take is we do not need to replace X, just optimize what
> is there.
>
> - rick warner
>
>
> --
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> unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
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Re: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[T. Ribbrock]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:09:31AM -0700, Bailo, John wrote:
> With all the alternatives in Linux, are there alternatives to X itself?   

There is one project I know of: "The Berlin Consortium", which apperently
started over and is now called "Fresco". See: http://www.fresco.org/

It is under active development, albeit very slowly. Those guys have
been around for five years by now, but it's still rather unknown and
not yet ready for production use. Their goals sound very interesting,
though, and I hope they'll succeed in the end.

Cheerio,

Thomas
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RE: Adding Apache & My SQL

[Billy]

> You need MySQL, Apache 1.3.27 or 2.0.45, and latest PHP. If you are
> installing from RPM, use a package manager like RedCarpet.

Do you know the names of the MySQL packages I need to search on, do I need a
MySQL-server package also? What is the recommended version of MySql for 7.3?

Billy


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RE: Load Balancer

[Devon Harding - GTHLA]

Coyote's Downloads page empty for 'Fury IP Load Balancer'

-Original Message-
From: MW Mike Weiner (5028) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:59 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: Load Balancer

Commercial load balancers:  F5 Network's BigIP
OpenSource load balancers:  coyote linux website has one

Michael Weiner

-Original Message-
From: Devon Harding - GTHLA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:31 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Load Balancer

Anyone know of any out there?

-Original Message-
From: Devon Harding - GTHLA 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Load Balancer

The same goes for http://www.loadbalancer.org, which changes for their
appliance 

-Devon

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan M. Slivko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 12:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Load Balancer

I'm interested in getting some information on this as well? Anyone have
any clues? The only thing remotely close to load balancing is
http://www.psoft.net that I can think of. I will try and do a little web
research and see if there is something else. However, H-Sphere, the
psoft.net product runs on a licensing scheme where you have to pay $3.75
per license (instance of user) with a minimum of 50 licenses per
purchase. 

HTH,
Jonathan

Original message attached.


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Re: MS Exchange Alternatives?

[Arden Norder]

Hey Ed,

SuSE OpenExchange is your answer.
Weŕe running it now. Had some challenges with the migration from MSExchange 5.5 but 
the 
support was good (a bit slow, but good).
1240 Euro for the complete SuSE enterprise server OS and OpenExchange software with 
10 licences.

Looked at other alternatives but none were found as a replacement for MSExchange - 
lots for if your starting new.

I am a huge RedHat fan and the OpenExchange machine is the only SuSe machine in the 
house - everything else (4 servers)is RH Advanced Server.

Good luck
Arden

Lazor  Ed  wrote the Jun 24, 2003 10:18 PM:

> Hi :) 
>  
> Do you know of Linux/Redhat-based solution that could serve  
> Outlook clients with email, individual / shared calendaring, and  
> shared address books / contacts? 
>  
> Thanks 
>  
> Ed 

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Norder;Arden;;Director
FN:Arden Norder
ORG:Nordix Consulting en Automatisering;
NOTE:
TEL;WORK;VOICE:+31(0)514 531 382
TEL;CELL;VOICE:+31(0)6 2148 7568
TEL;PAGER;VOICE:
TEL;WORK;FAX:+31(0)514 531 197
ADR;WORK:;;Menno van Coehoornstraat 12;Sloten;Fryslân;8556 AR;NL
LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:Menno van Coehoornstraat 12=0D=0ASloten, Fryslân 8556 AR=0D=0AD
URL;WORK:www.nordix.nl
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MAILER:SuSE Linux Openexchange Server 4
END:VCARD 

RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Jonathan Bartlett]

In addition, there are alternatives to XFree86.  There are commercial X
servers that work very well, that have nothing to do with XFree86.

Also, gtk (not GNOME, though) applications can run directly on the
framebuffer, I believe.

Jon

On 25 Jun 2003, Rick Warner wrote:

> On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 10:09, Bailo, John wrote:
> > With all the alternatives in Linux, are there alternatives to X itself?
> >
> > Shouldn't there be more than one graphics servers available to Linux?
>
> None as far as I know.  But in thinking about the question I have two
> responses.
>
> 1)  Writing a full scale graphical environment is time consuming,
> difficult, and requires a lot of skill.  There are not that many around.
> The Mac interface, Windows, Sun's SunView, X and X based derivatives
> (CDE, Gnome, KDE, etc.).  Probably a couple of others, certainly the
> Star interface was used  by Apple and MS for ideas, etc.  X started as
> an academic project and then was adopted by the *NIX world as the basis
> for a lot of variants, but the hard work was all done at MIT and
> everyone leveraged off that investment.  The basic point is that a
> full blown interface is something that will probably be done only as
> an academic project or if there is substantial value for selling the
> interface.  Hence the OpenSource world has moved towards the end of
> leveraging off the X stuff as the basis for GUI's and trying to lay
> stuff on top of that to enhance the user experience.  This has the
> side-effect of making it easy for programmers to write applications for
> the interface; any Xlib application can be ported to any X environment;
> it looks better if some higher level widgets are used, but it makes the
> application level much more enticing to developers.  Cost of a non-X
> interface and the problem of getting apps for it both argue against such
> a beast.
>
> 2) X in and of itself has a number of advantages (some of which are
> are also disadvantages).  It is designed to run on a network with
> distributed clients, there are low level API's that developers can use,
> the core of the interface is freely available, etc.  The issue is
> performance, but that can be dealt with as a separate issue.  There are
> three main sources of performance issues.  First, the WM and other
> stuff overlying X can be bloated and non-optimized.  KDE and Gnome
> are both fighting with this, there are alternatives that are lighter
> weight and better as others have noted.  Second, video drivers are
> a problem.  There needs to be incentives for manufacturers to either
> provide good drivers for Linux, or provide info to programmers that
> will do the drivers.  In the early days of Linux, there was a boycott
> against Diamond and their cards as they would not provide data to
> driver writers.  Diamond changed their minds and a lot of folks then
> bought Diamond cards as the accelerated drivers became some of the
> best around.  Too many cards these days run with non-accelerated drivers
> due to 'secrecy' of the card makers.  Good drivers on good cards do
> make a difference - a big one.  Third, the fact that X handles
> everything via the network stack can drag down performance.  The proper
> way to handle this is to optimize and compress the stream.  Low
> bandwidth X stuff is around, and there have been proprietary solutions
> that solve this problem.  I'd rather see more effort put in this area
> than folks trying to re-invent the wheel.
>
> In the end, my take is we do not need to replace X, just optimize what
> is there.
>
> - rick warner
>
>
> --
> redhat-list mailing list
> unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
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RE: Mail Is Getting Rejected

[Red Hat]

When I add my domain to the /etc/mail/access file, I then get this error:


   - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
(reason: 553 5.3.5 system config error)

   - Transcript of session follows -
553 5.3.5 echeeba.com. config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?)
554 5.3.5 Local configuration error


Any ideas?

-Chuck


-Original Message-
From: Marcos de Souza Trazzini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 4:02 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Mail Is Getting Rejected


On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 20:53, Red Hat wrote:
> I have configured sendmail on a Red Hat 9.0 box as I have configured 
> sendmail before. However, mail delivery keeps getting rejected:
> 
> Jun 24 11:19:04 cheeba sendmail[5243]: h5OIJ4CY005243: 
> from=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> size=0, class=0, nrcpts=0, proto=SMTP, daemon=MTA, 
> relay=daedalus.apache.org [208.185.179.12] Jun 24 11:19:36 cheeba 
> sendmail[5244]: h5OIJaCY005244: ruleset=check_rcpt, 
> arg1=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, relay=hormel.redhat.com [66.187.233.30], 
> reject=550 5.7.1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... Relaying denied
> Jun 24 11:19:37 cheeba sendmail[5244]: h5OIJaCY005244:
> from=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, size=3296, class=0, nrcpts=0,
> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=hormel.redhat.com [66.187.233.30]
> Jun 24 11:21:12 cheeba sendmail[5252]: h5OILCCY005252:
> ruleset=check_rcpt, arg1=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, relay=daedalus.apache.org
> [208.185.179.12], reject=550 5.7.1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... Relaying
> denied
> 
> 
> I even added some domains explicitly to /etc/mail/access and rebuilt 
> access.db. What am I missing?
> 
Well, what do you put in /etc/mail/access?

If you put your network(s) range(s) and your domain(s) this should work.

Don't forget to add all the names of your server in the /etc/mail/local-host-names 
file.

-- 
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Servmicro Informática LTDA


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Re: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[enloop]

The "X" in OS X is the Roman numeral 10.  It has nothing to do with
anything else. 

"X' the networking and windowing tool, is available for OS X from Apple
and elsewhere.



On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 22:14, Shaun T. Erickson wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> > 
> > Despite its name, OSX doesn't use X.
> 
> OSX *is* essentially FreeBSD. As such, it sure does use X as the 
> windowing system, according to every MAC OSX user I know. I'm quite 
> aware that the "X" in the OS name doesn't reafer to the windowing system 
> used, also.
> 
>   -ste
> 
> 


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Re: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Kent Borg]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:01:37AM -0400, Michael Kalus wrote:
> Panther will be coming with a built in X window system. 

Interesting.  I didn't know that.  But I guess it makes sense.


Thanks,

-kb


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Re: Adding Apache & My SQL

[Joseph A Nagy Jr]

Billy wrote:
I have a RedHat 7.3 machine that I want to add apache and mysql to. I am
just extremely confused at all the different versions, updates, packages...I
have no idea what I need. I want my end result to me a machine that can host
a PHP based site, with a MySQL database. Can someone tell me what RPM's I
should be looking for? I would just download everything I found on
rpmfind.net and try for myself, but the machine is in production and I would
break it for sure!! Any help would be great...THANKS!
Billy


You need MySQL, Apache 1.3.27 or 2.0.45, and latest PHP. If you are 
installing from RPM, use a package manager like RedCarpet.

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Message,
the +3 Clue-by-Four of No Attachments to a Mailing List,
and the -4 Shield of No Spell Checker

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Re: Adding Apache & My SQL

[Michael Gargiullo]

If you have a subscription, you can install these via up2date

apache
mysql
mysql-server
php

I've done a clean install of RH and forgotten to install things. 
Up2date is useful for this kind of thing, among others.


On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 13:54, Billy wrote:
> I have a RedHat 7.3 machine that I want to add apache and mysql to. I am
> just extremely confused at all the different versions, updates, packages...I
> have no idea what I need. I want my end result to me a machine that can host
> a PHP based site, with a MySQL database. Can someone tell me what RPM's I
> should be looking for? I would just download everything I found on
> rpmfind.net and try for myself, but the machine is in production and I would
> break it for sure!! Any help would be great...THANKS!
> 
> Billy
-- 
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Warp Drive Networks


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RE: Load Balancer

[MW Mike Weiner (5028)]

Commercial load balancers:  F5 Network's BigIP
OpenSource load balancers:  coyote linux website has one

Michael Weiner

-Original Message-
From: Devon Harding - GTHLA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:31 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Load Balancer

Anyone know of any out there?

-Original Message-
From: Devon Harding - GTHLA 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Load Balancer

The same goes for http://www.loadbalancer.org, which changes for their
appliance 

-Devon

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan M. Slivko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 12:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Load Balancer

I'm interested in getting some information on this as well? Anyone have
any clues? The only thing remotely close to load balancing is
http://www.psoft.net that I can think of. I will try and do a little web
research and see if there is something else. However, H-Sphere, the
psoft.net product runs on a licensing scheme where you have to pay $3.75
per license (instance of user) with a minimum of 50 licenses per
purchase. 

HTH,
Jonathan

Original message attached.


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Samba shares problem

[Zoki]

Le 24/06/2003 22:24, « Tanasescu Mihai » <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :


 
> I've tried everything you said..and still lisa won't show the other
> computers' shares (I mean those are windows shares..and I was hoping to
> see them under lan://localhost/192.168.40.101/SMB  or something like
> that..instead the SMB directory contains nothing.




*** Do all the PC's belong to the same WORKGROUP?

-- 
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Zoran.

"Home is where you hang your @"


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Re: OT: Regarding Re: Minimum Configuration / Hardening

[Edward Croft]

Sorry about the HTML. Forgot to change the settings back.


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RE: Why is RH9 slower than Windows98SE. Any advice?

[Rick Warner]

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 10:09, Bailo, John wrote:
> With all the alternatives in Linux, are there alternatives to X itself?   
> 
> Shouldn't there be more than one graphics servers available to Linux?

None as far as I know.  But in thinking about the question I have two
responses.

1)  Writing a full scale graphical environment is time consuming,
difficult, and requires a lot of skill.  There are not that many around.
The Mac interface, Windows, Sun's SunView, X and X based derivatives
(CDE, Gnome, KDE, etc.).  Probably a couple of others, certainly the
Star interface was used  by Apple and MS for ideas, etc.  X started as
an academic project and then was adopted by the *NIX world as the basis
for a lot of variants, but the hard work was all done at MIT and
everyone leveraged off that investment.  The basic point is that a
full blown interface is something that will probably be done only as
an academic project or if there is substantial value for selling the
interface.  Hence the OpenSource world has moved towards the end of
leveraging off the X stuff as the basis for GUI's and trying to lay
stuff on top of that to enhance the user experience.  This has the 
side-effect of making it easy for programmers to write applications for
the interface; any Xlib application can be ported to any X environment;
it looks better if some higher level widgets are used, but it makes the
application level much more enticing to developers.  Cost of a non-X
interface and the problem of getting apps for it both argue against such
a beast.

2) X in and of itself has a number of advantages (some of which are
are also disadvantages).  It is designed to run on a network with 
distributed clients, there are low level API's that developers can use,
the core of the interface is freely available, etc.  The issue is 
performance, but that can be dealt with as a separate issue.  There are
three main sources of performance issues.  First, the WM and other 
stuff overlying X can be bloated and non-optimized.  KDE and Gnome
are both fighting with this, there are alternatives that are lighter
weight and better as others have noted.  Second, video drivers are
a problem.  There needs to be incentives for manufacturers to either
provide good drivers for Linux, or provide info to programmers that
will do the drivers.  In the early days of Linux, there was a boycott
against Diamond and their cards as they would not provide data to 
driver writers.  Diamond changed their minds and a lot of folks then
bought Diamond cards as the accelerated drivers became some of the
best around.  Too many cards these days run with non-accelerated drivers
due to 'secrecy' of the card makers.  Good drivers on good cards do
make a difference - a big one.  Third, the fact that X handles
everything via the network stack can drag down performance.  The proper
way to handle this is to optimize and compress the stream.  Low
bandwidth X stuff is around, and there have been proprietary solutions 
that solve this problem.  I'd rather see more effort put in this area
than folks trying to re-invent the wheel.

In the end, my take is we do not need to replace X, just optimize what
is there.

- rick warner


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Adding Apache & My SQL

[Billy]

I have a RedHat 7.3 machine that I want to add apache and mysql to. I am
just extremely confused at all the different versions, updates, packages...I
have no idea what I need. I want my end result to me a machine that can host
a PHP based site, with a MySQL database. Can someone tell me what RPM's I
should be looking for? I would just download everything I found on
rpmfind.net and try for myself, but the machine is in production and I would
break it for sure!! Any help would be great...THANKS!

Billy


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repquota issue

[Leonardo Rodríguez]

Hi,

I've got quota installed and working fine, I can limit the disk space
and the inodes space for each user but when I try to see the quota report
I get this:

# repquota -a
repquota: Quotafile format detected differs from the specified one (or the
one kernel uses on the file).
repquota: Not all specified mountpoints are using quota.


I tried also this:

# repquota  -vu /home
repquota: Quotafile format detected differs from the specified one (or the
one kernel uses on the file).
repquota: Not all specified mountpoints are using quota.

But I get the same.

If you know something about it I will be appreciate...

Thanks in advance...

Leonardo



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OT: Regarding Re: Minimum Configuration / Hardening

[Edward Croft]

On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 13:24, Neil Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Jonathan Bartlett wrote:

> > Thinking of using a Linux 9.0 box running Snort for detection in the
> > Untrusted Zone of our network (i.e., before the firewall). I would like to
> > know the absolute minimum configuration (package/software) and a suggested
> > hardening script that could be used for this.
> 
> Sorry to be pedantic, but it's Red Hat Linux 9.0, not Linux 9.0.


Sorry to be pedantic, but it's neither...it's Red Hat Linux 9 (hehe)



Cheers! (Relax...have a homebrew)

Neil


Now there's one I haven't heard for quite a while! Been two years since I made a batch. I started years ago when Pete Slosberg was still hobnobbing in the Compuserve forums. 

RE: what makes linux so secure?

[Lazor, Ed]

I use both Linux and Windows servers, based on application 
and resource needs.  It sounds like you're using the box as 
a web server, so should evaluate your web development and
publishing needs.  Do you want to use .NET and MSSQL or do 
you want to go with Apache, PHP, and MySQL?  Actually, you
can run Apache, PHP, and MySQL on Windows... but it definitely
runs better on Linux, as it was developed primarily for that 
platform.  I'd double check performance ratings, because maybe
they've improved the performance of those apps on Windows since
I last checked.

You're right about patches coming out more quickly on Linux.  
The thing I find annoying is that vulnerabilities are so 
widely disclosed and exploited.  In other words, people are
much quicker to take advantage of Linux exploits, from what 
I've seen.  You have to keep up with a lot of changes on
the Linux platform as a result... and you have to stay right
on top of it all the time.

Again, if you stay up with updates, patches, configure things
properly, set up proper security measures, etc... It becomes
an issue of which apps you want to run.  And of course, which
apps you want to run becomes a factor of cost.  Linux is free.
That's why I use it in many cases.  The other big reason why
I use Linux is because I hate remotely logging into Windows
boxes via PC Anywhere and VNC.  They tend to be dog slow, when
a simple command prompt allows me to do things very quickly.

-Ed



> -Original Message-
> Yes, I understand both of these principles. Let's look at 
> this way then, is there any reason for Linux to be touted as 
> being more secure than Windows?
> 
> You mention patches and configuration. Well Windows can be 
> patched and can have services/software removed from it. But 
> so can Linux, so are there any outstanding (not outstanding 
> as in great, but rather stand out) qualities of Linux that 
> Windows does not have? I know that Windows is full of buffer 
> overflows waiting to be exploited, I know that the time 
> between vulnerabilities being disclosed and patches being 
> made is much shorter in the open source world than it is in 
> the MS world.


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RE: Load Balancer

[Devon Harding - GTHLA]

Anyone know of any out there?

-Original Message-
From: Devon Harding - GTHLA 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Load Balancer

The same goes for http://www.loadbalancer.org, which changes for their
appliance 

-Devon

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan M. Slivko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 12:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Load Balancer

I'm interested in getting some information on this as well? Anyone have
any clues? The only thing remotely close to load balancing is
http://www.psoft.net that I can think of. I will try and do a little web
research and see if there is something else. However, H-Sphere, the
psoft.net product runs on a licensing scheme where you have to pay $3.75
per license (instance of user) with a minimum of 50 licenses per
purchase. 

HTH,
Jonathan

Original message attached.


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REPOST: LogRotate: MySQL

[Ashley M. Kirchner]

I'm having a problem with logrotate rotating MySQL files and
flushing the server properly.  My current file looks like this:
/var/lib/mysql/mysql.log {
notifempty
daily
rotate 14
olddir /var/lib/mysql/old_logs
missingok
compress
postrotate
if test -n "`ps acx|grep mysqld`"; then
/usr/bin/mysqladmin flush-logs
fi
endscript
}
As per MySQL's instructions, I also have a /roof/.my.cnf file that
contains the user and password to connect to the server (readable only
by root.)  However, when logrotate runs through cron, either it doesn't
see this file, or it's not running with proper environment, I don't
know.  Point is, logrotate bombs with an error during the postrotate
routine because it can't connect to the MySQL server (no password
given).  However, if I run logrotate manually from the command line, it
runs just fine and rotates the log file without any problem (it doesn't 
ask for the password because it can see the .my.cnf file in /root.

Anyone got any ideas?

--
 H| I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +
  Ashley M. Kirchner    .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith . 800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.. 3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com . .  ..   Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.


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Re: what makes linux so secure?

[Ed Wilts]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:31:08AM -0700, Chris W. Parker wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to sell my boss on replacing our Win2k IIS web server with
> a RH8/9 Apache server. Although it's my understanding that Linux is
> more secure than windows I really don't have much to point out in
> defense on that idea.
> 
> Please list for me reasons why you believe (or know for a fact) that
> Linux is more secure than our current setup. Let's assume two
> different situations: 1. Out of the box with a standard install, 2.
> Standard install, fully patched.

One of the key differences between IIS and Apache is the way the web
server is started.  On Windows, the web server runs under local user
SYSTEM, and has FULL access to every resource on that system.  This
means that if the web server is penetrated (and many have been in the
past), the attacker has full access to the system, allowing them to
further compromise your system with trojans, virii, and DoS attacks.  On
Linux, however, the web server almost always run under a non-privileged
account.  If Apache is penetrated, the worst the attacker can do is run
non-privileged code - they may access web server files and world
readable and writable files, but they won't be able to modify your
system binaries nor startups.

You can make both IIS and Apache secure for now.  How secure they stay
is dependent on how often you keep yourself updated and how many future
holes are found in the web servers.

You didn't talk about Apache on Windows and this is (I believe) a viable
alternative to IIS on Windows.

-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Member #1, Red Hat Community Ambassador Program


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Re: what makes linux so secure?

[Robert Canary]

IMHO, Linux' ability to configure virtually anything is a strength and
weakness.  As Ed, pointed out proper know how and admin is the real key
on this issue, but still requires one to stay up to date on patches. 
However, Linux' being very configurable, can close any security hole and
still remain functional for its purpose.  Agin this still requires the
admin to minitor things, as new methods of security breaches are always
one day away.

Of coures if you remove all daemons, and commandline prompts, as I was
told to do one time.That would be fool proof, it makes a totally
useless server. :-)


"Lazor, Ed" wrote:
> 
> How secure the system is depends more on configuration, how well you keep up with 
> updates / patches, and whether you take time to configure security tools (firewalls, 
> tripwire, etc.).
> 
> Linux comes with all kinds of things installed and enabled by default.  IMHO that 
> makes the default installation less secure, especially if you're not familiar enough 
> with Linux to go through and disable or secure everything on the system.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm trying to sell my boss on replacing our Win2k IIS web
> > server with a RH8/9 Apache server. Although it's my
> > understanding that Linux is more secure than windows I really
> > don't have much to point out in defense on that idea.
> >
> > Please list for me reasons why you believe (or know for a
> > fact) that Linux is more secure than our current setup. Let's
> > assume two different situations: 1. Out of the box with a
> > standard install, 2. Standard install, fully patched.
> >
> >
> > Thanks a lot,
> > Chris.
> 
> DISCLAIMER:
> This message is intended for the sole use of the individual to whom it is addressed, 
> and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from 
> disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby 
> notified that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message 
> or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in 
> error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete this message.
> 
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RE: what makes linux so secure?

[Jonathan Bartlett]

The biggest thing in my book is the ability to limit exposure.

Let's say you are running two machines - a Linux box running Apache and a
Windows box running IIS.  Apache runs as an unprivileged user while IIS
runs as root.  Now, let's say an exploit comes out on the same day for
both Apache and IIS, both allowing a full shell access onto the box.

Question - are these the same severity?

Answer - Not even close.  In the case of apache, the attacker has
essentially achieved guest-level access.  In the case of IIS, the
attacker has achieved administrator-level access and can do whatever he
wants.  In the case of Apache the attacker would have to find yet another
exploit in order to raise his privileges.

Does Microsoft support running services as normal guest-level users?
Theoretically, yes.  Practically - most Windows services won't run
correctly as a guest-level user.

In addition, with Linux, you can further limit your exposure using chroot.
For example, I have Postfix (probably _the_ most secure mail server on the
planet) configured in a chroot jail.  That means that the Postfix server
only sees the directory that contains the mail queue - it doesn't even
know the rest of the filesystem exists!  If someone were to happen to
miraculously find an exploit for Postfix, the _worst_ they could do is
smash the mail queues, because the rest of the system is not even
available to them.  For example, I keep my mail spools in
/var/spool/postfix.  However, I have my Postfix servers chrooted to
/var/spool/postfix.  That means that they view /var/spool/postifx as /.
They can't get out of the directory, because they are at the top!

In addition, Linux and it's related servers are open to external review.
If you don't think something is secure, review it yourself and find out!
You cannot do this with Windows.  Why do you think Windows doesn't open
itself up to this review process?  Well, Mr Ballmer said under oath that
doing so would reveal security problems that would be devastating.

Finally, you can get support from multiple organizations.  With Microsoft,
only they can provide fixes - so your problem has to be on Microsoft's
priority list.  With Linux, if someone isn't handling your problems with
proper speed, you can contract out to ANY COMPETENT DEVELOPER to help you
out.  With Microsoft, you do not have this option.

With Linux, security is open to public review and criticism.  With
Windows, you ave to trust them, and that's a HUGE conflict of interest.

Jon

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Lazor, Ed wrote:

> How secure the system is depends more on configuration, how well you keep up with 
> updates / patches, and whether you take time to configure security tools (firewalls, 
> tripwire, etc.).
>
> Linux comes with all kinds of things installed and enabled by default.  IMHO that 
> makes the default installation less secure, especially if you're not familiar enough 
> with Linux to go through and disable or secure everything on the system.
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm trying to sell my boss on replacing our Win2k IIS web
> > server with a RH8/9 Apache server. Although it's my
> > understanding that Linux is more secure than windows I really
> > don't have much to point out in defense on that idea.
> >
> > Please list for me reasons why you believe (or know for a
> > fact) that Linux is more secure than our current setup. Let's
> > assume two different situations: 1. Out of the box with a
> > standard install, 2. Standard install, fully patched.
> >
> >
> > Thanks a lot,
> > Chris.
>
>
> DISCLAIMER:
> This message is intended for the sole use of the individual to whom it is addressed, 
> and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from 
> disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby 
> notified that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message 
> or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in 
> error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete this message.
>
>
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