Re: CS>Re:Mike-about silver for lyme
Mike: Please explain what a "herx" reaction to CS is. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Procuring CS from me
In a message dated 00-03-30 12:36:08 EST, you write: << Roger, I'd like two liters -- I'm assuming the silver will last a long time, yes? My address is: 190 Kripplebush Road Stone Ridge, New York 12484-5806 Thanks. Nina >> Nina: The shipping cost to send you 2 liters is $6.52. So the total will come to $26.52. I think I'll pass on your book for now since I don't even understand the title. Perhaps you can tell me more about it in future emails. Roger P.S. The CS will arrive in plastic translucent bottles and has an indefinite shelf life. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Procuring CS from me
In a message dated 00-03-30 07:32:34 EST, you write: << Roger; What would a gallon of CS cost me? I live in Colo. Springs. Would the high altitude have effects on the CS. Thanks, Rowdy >> Rowdy: The cost of shipping 4 liters to you is $9.75. So the total is $49.75. The 6 ppm CS I will ship is clear and stays that way and has an indefinite shelf life. Roger Altman RR1 Box 102 Natural Bridge, NY 13665 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>HVAC Colloidal Silver
Dan: Playing around with high voltage is VERY dangerous. If you don't have specific experience with high voltage I would stay away from making CS that way. Roger Altman -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Absorbtion of CS
In a message dated 00-04-06 02:12:33 EDT, you write: << Hello Folks, Does anyone have any studies on where and at what rate silver is absorbed in the human? Animal studies? Particular emphasis: 1. How much gets to intestine and alters flora? 2. Can CS cause constipation? Any information will be appreciated. James Osbourne Holmes a...@trail.com >> James: I personally produced all the data in my "First of its Kind Colloidal Silver Report". I monitored my silver elimination rate AFTER I had ingested approximately 2.3 mg of colloidal silver each day for several months. I then stopped taking the colloidal silver so that I could monitor how quickly my body was able to eliminate retained silver over time. Bill Schenker, MD helped me design the data gathering procedures. The results are divided into two parts. The first part is a preliminary study showing the distribution of eliminated silver in hair, nails, perspiration, feces and urine. The second part, which represents the bulk of the study, concentates on monitoring silver distribution between feces and urine over time. These results reveal that there may be two different mechanisms controlling silver retention. Each one appears to be influenced by the quantity of silver already present in body tissue. I also discovered a simple way to increase silver elimination rate by a factor of 3. This study cost me over $600, so I'm asking $20 to help offset my expenses. If you want to receive a copy of the report, please send a check, money order or cash to: Dr. Roger Altman RR1 Box 102 Natural Bridge NY 13665 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Absorbtion of CS
In a message dated 00-04-06 08:10:00 EDT, you write: << Particular emphasis: 1. How much gets to intestine and alters > flora? 2. Can CS cause constipation? Brooks posted something about this. If I recall right stuff was in the bloodstream within minutes. His (canine) subjects had a major but not total loss of intestinal flora if the dose was significant. I hope someone will re-post... Roger, when you did your study did you get any indication about *uptake* rates? As in, how quickly it shows up in blood/urine/feces at the onset of administration? Be well, Mike D. >> Mike: I started my silver material balance after several months of taking over 2.3 mg CS /day because I wanted to be at "steady state" to have any chance of actually getting silver "in" to equal silver "out". On the subject of doing CS canine studies. I strongly recommend NOT TRYING CS OUT ON ROVER. I used CS on my dog because I suspected he a parasite problem. Well, in a very short time he had a CS PROBLEM because he started getting the runs and it took months to get him back under control. (He probably was responsible for getting HIMSELF back to normal by ingesting his own feces -- with all its bacterial goodies -- from time to time). BTW, I'm sure the CS was responsible for the diahrea because his feces had absolutely NO SMELL. I mean the CS killed about EVERYTHING in his gut. I believe canines are poor CS subjects because they have a relatively short intestinal tract, so they are particularly vulnerable to having the CS kill the flora through out their digestive system. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Absorbtion of CS
James: The reason my study was $600 and not $6000 was based on two factors. First, I found a lab that would do my analyses at a reasonable cost. Second, because this study was the first of its kind (as far as I know) I didn't think I should generate a huge amount of data until my results could be confirmed (or challenged) by other researchers. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Re: Documented CS Successes under Controlled Conditions
Dear List: Many, if not most of us are convinced that CS works for a wide range of medical problems, but can anyone provide documented successes under controlled conditions? Surely some renegade university professor somewhere has, on occasion, been curious enough about CS to have performed controlled experiments to verify, or better yet, disprove the efficacy of CS. Evidence, however limited, is extremely important to have available if any of us are forced to defend our actions if the FDA decides that it may like YOU to be their next fall guy. Roger Altman -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Documented CS Successes under Controlled Conditions
Ted: I wonder how your "read" of FDA action (or inaction) with regard to CS vendor claims (or even "non-claims") stacks up against their most recent ruling? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Documented CS Successes under Controlled Conditions
Thaks very much Marshall. I'm sure a combined effort from the "CS list" would yield several times more published CS results. Perhaps we could request each list subscriber to contribute at least one published positive or negatve (which would be at least as interesting) CS report. Roger Altman -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS and Canines
In a message dated 00-04-07 10:56:21 EDT, you write: << Roger, Very interesting experience with your dog's reaction to CS. My experience in this regard is exactly the opposite. I am a breeder of show Maltese and one problem we have with these white dogs is facial stain due to tearing, which is often the result of a low grade infection in the tear ducts. I have been giving 2cc 2 x daily to my 5 lb show dog for several months and have seen no reaction at all, other than a nice white face. Just wanted to mention this so that other folks who are considering using CS for canine problems will not eliminate its use out of hand. There is a man on another CS forum who cured parvo virus in his dog after the vet sent him home to die. I have also heard of rabies being cured with CS. I would not hestitate to use it on dogs with things like gum infection and post surgical infection prevention, just about anything that we use for people. Sure makes you wonder why your dog had such a negative reaction, and if someone has any doubts about using it it would'nt hurt to give acidolpholous type bacteria along with the CS. Would hate anyone to risk losing their dog if giving CS would provide a miracle cure, or even a cosmetic one, as in my case. For healthier dogs, Nancy >> Nancy: Very encouraging report on using CS with canines. I believe a "weight of the evidence" approach would allow anyone contemplating using CS to clear up a pet ailment to guesstimate the likelihood that THEIR pet might have a reaction. Since my dog was still a puppy at the time (but weighed many times what your dog weighs) may have contributed to his "delicate stomach". Hopefully, other list subscribers would add their experiences so that a more complete picture will begin to appear. Sure hope you're right. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Documented CS Successes under Controlled Conditions
In a message dated 00-04-07 12:33:19 EDT, you write: << The FDA can reclassify any thing, but this does not mean it cannot be challanged in a court of law. You have the God given right to defend yourself from those who try to take your rights away. You are also given the right of choice. Blessings Ted >> Ted: When you fill out your 1040 tax return are you not "voluntarily" waiving your 5th Amendment right not to be a witness against yourself in a possible future criminal case (based on what the IRS finds and uses on that very same 1040 return to build a case against you)? If you think that courts are going to back you up if and when you decide NOT to file your 1040 based on the above argument, there's a little bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. Sometimes there's a pretty wide gulf between what SHOULD happen in the GOOD OL' US of A and what actually DOES happen. Roger Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: cs strength
In a message dated 00-04-07 16:47:23 EDT, you write: << I don't believe it is possible to have a ph of other than 7 without an ionic attribute is it? >> When I went to school electrical neutrality was definitely the in thing. Maybe it has now been dropped from the curriculum along with so many other things. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS and Pneumonia.............
Tom: It has been my experience with CS that success depends on getting it to the site of the infection. I'm not a medical doctor, others on the "list" may be in a much better position to comment intelligently concerning pneumonia, but it seems to me that inhaling a mechanically produced mist would get the CS to the site of the infection. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Colour and silver oxide (long) was CS Makers.
How much dissolved CO2 would it take to produce a pH in the 4-5 range? -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS and Pneumonia.............
Tom: A mechanically agitated dispersion is the way to go since vaporization through evaporation would leave the CS behind. Also, a higher than normal CS concentration might help at this stage. I have 60 ppm on hand that I could overnight if you think it would help. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: cs strength
In a message dated 00-04-08 10:56:06 EDT, you write: << ## Well, the schools are still teaching people that we live in a universe of solid objects when it's pretty much proven that they are only 'virtually solid in appearance' If this were taught from an early age, it might result in more people using their minds as hammers to shape the world, or at least positiveley empowered personal experential realities, rather than the anvils making up our present society of helpless victims. KD'C >> KDC: Physical chemistry is but a subset of meta-physics. BUT as a subset it still follows natural laws just as Newtonian Physics follows its natural laws which are a subset of Relativity. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>long and winding oxides
In a message dated 00-04-11 09:07:39 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: CS>long and winding oxides Date: 00-04-11 09:07:39 EDT From: coy...@alltel.net (coyote) Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com To:silver-list@eskimo.com My apologies, I take a deep breath and a start over with more respect. What I see is a black coating on one of the rods, sometimes on the glass between the rods with a varience of color ranging from black to brown to yellowish with the black directly under one rod and the yellowish stuff directly below the other but only really visible if the glass is lit from the bottom. If I stir it up, the water turns the average color of the coating on the glass, usually brownish yellow. What I see if I make a batch mof CS that has a color is that the color, be it yellowish or brownish or even black will deposit on the glass of the container after being left undisturbed for several days or weeks. I can post a photo. The remaining liquid is clear with a good T.E. and strong metallic flavor as before storage, though perhaps not quite as strong. If I place h202 onto that color smear, it vanishes. I presume silver oxides because silver oxides have a dark color [or so I believe from handling dental and photographic waste] and find references to various silver oxides being formed under those conditions. I find no reference to the range of possible colors. I have had experience in the distant past with electroplating gold, lead, copper and zinc and seen what various amperages do to the finish. [rough and burnt looking to smooth and shiny] This CS thing is a bit different but somewhat related. What is it that I am looking at? >> Any metal will appear black if its particle size is small enough and probably within a range of colors for a variety of particle size distributions. Using color for identification purposes is fraught with difficulties UNLESS you have confimed the type of substance by other means FIRST and through experience with the identical process and materials you generate "mental correlations". As far as oxidizing silver is concerned, someone who has the data can calculate the standard free energy of reaction for, 2Ag + H2O2 > Ag2O + H2O You will need the standard free energy of formation for H2O2, Ag2O, and H2O to do the math. I don't have the data, but my guess is that the reaction produces A LOT of negative free energy, i.e., it goes to to the right quite easily. Roger Altman -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>fred]Re: CS>long and winding oxides and how to make strong clear LVDC
In a message dated 00-04-11 09:07:40 EDT, you write:
<< I still can't see how a metal that's plus or minus an electron is
suddenly not a metal. If I shuffle around on a rug and build up a charge, I
don't suddenly become a different life form. {Though, at that point I do
tend to repel other similar life forms} >>
I tell you how one little ol' electron can make a big difference.
Sprinkle a little NaCl in a cup of water and stir gently. Then
sprinkle a little Na metal in a cup of water -- please stand back, you won't
need to stir and please don't taste it after the fire goes out.
Roger Altman
--
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Re: CS>long and winding oxides
In a message dated 00-04-12 07:58:11 EDT, you write: << #Thanks, I can buy that. Just not sure that a particular color always means the same thing. Perhaps coal is black because of its particle size [molecular crystal size?] and diamonds are clear because that size is different? Or would that be differing crystal configurations and lattice structures. You got it! [shapes and fits?] Presuming identical chemical/elemental makeup. Uh, the difficulty part strikes a bell :-) Another question If I'm getting many hydrogen bubbles on one side and some, but very few oxygen bubbles on the other and that pole turns black, what's going on? The ratio of hydrogen to oxygen is nowhere near 2 to 1 as would be expected. Let's see if I can help. Anode(1): Ag(metal cluster which tends to separate at lattice weak points and/or areas of high surface free energy such as edges) -> Ag(metal cluster with positive electrostatic charge)+ n(e-) Where n = 1 for clusters of tens of thousands of Ag atoms [THUS, THIS AGGREGATE DOES NOT, IN FACT, CANNOT, ACT AS A SILVER ION -- IT'S SIMPLY AN ELECTROSTATICALLY CHARGED SILVER PARTICAL] COMPETING REACTIONS: Anode(2): 2H2O ---> O2(gas) + 4H(pos ion) + 4e- Cathode: 4H(pos) + 4 e- > 2H2 (gas) Sum of Reactions Ag + 2H2O --> Ag(colloidal w/ superficial surface charge) + O2(gas) + 2H2(gas) The amount of H2(gas), and O2(gas) depends on the level of 'overvoltage' (beyond the theoretical minimum to produce O2 and H2 in the first place) which in turn is a function of the surface overvoltage required (certain electrodes are composed of metals and conductive materials that act as catalysts primarily because of their huge surface area which will greatly reduce overvoltage) AND the thickness of the boundary layer at the surface of the electrode (i.e. stirring, for example, will decrease the thickness of the boundary layer and thus lower overvoltage). There are other factors which could also lower overvoltage which I won't get into here. Hope this helps, Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>fred]Re: CS>long and winding oxides
In a message dated 00-04-12 07:58:12 EDT, you write: << So what does being plus or minus electrons in another metallic substance, say, iron, do in the presence of oxygen? Rust? Then applying electrical current or heat to the rust without the presence of oxygen or in the presence of something that likes oxygen even more than the rust does? KD'C >> You've got alot of stuff here KD'C. First, it's usually not a good idea to think of an ion in a vacuum so to speak because within an angstrom or two there is the oppositely charged ion. So if if you're talking about Fe+++ (for example), you ALREADY have O-- (or some other 'ide') right next to it from the get go. Second, in order go apply an electric current AND have something happen you need some degree of conductivity and Fe2O3, or Fe3O4, or FeO are insulators. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Try this
Steve: Let us know how the final ppm was affected as well. You'll have a higher current density at the electrode edge to edge distance, BUT the average distance for the bulk of your electrodes has increase and thus your ohmic voltage drop has increased as well. Generally this increase should produce LESS CS, all other things being equal (which is not quite true). Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Question about storage of CS
In a message dated 00-04-13 12:26:37 EDT, you write: << One more question on storage. A friend recently bought some CS at the health food store and it said on the bottle not to refridgerage. Why is that? >> If colloidal silver is an effective germacide why would you need to refrigerate it? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS aggregation
Terry: How much DC voltage did you use to make your CS? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Hanna meter
In a message dated 00-04-17 07:41:17 EDT, you write: << your current is limited to a small enough number, then cleaning electrodes should not be necessary, just the occasional stirring, or preferably something like Roberts mechanical stirrer. >> Ivan: How small should the current be to minimize cleaning electrodes in a stirred and unstirred DC set up. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Hanna meter
In a message dated 00-04-17 09:04:31 EDT, you write: << Roger I have good results at a current density of ~0.00175 mA at one electrode. Ivan >> Ivan: 0.00175 ma = 1.75 microamps. Is THAT what you mean? Or do you mean 1.75 ma? I assume this current corresponds to having two silver wires (12-14 ga?) in STIRRED DI water that has TDS of less than ~2 ppm? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Hanna meter
In a message dated 00-04-17 16:49:58 EDT, you write: << Yes,1.75 microAmps The current density is the max current divided by the electrode wetted area. Ivan. >> Ivan: Sorry for my ignorance. Are the units then 1.75 microamps per square millimeter? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Questions about CS
In a message dated 00-04-17 23:45:12 EDT, you write: << Subj: CS>Questions about CS Date: 00-04-17 23:45:12 EDT From: brownin...@hotmail.com (rob gr) Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com To:silver-list@eskimo.com I am brand new to this list, but have some questions about CS... 1)If CS a positively charged or negatively charged ion? 2)Is CS evenly distributed throughout the body? 3)How long does CS stay in the body before it is processed and voided. 4)Does CS exit the body in the same form that it enters... 5)Why does CS harm bacteria and virus but not harm human cells... 6)Are there peer reviewed studies that demonstrate the antibiotic effects of CS? I am hearing very good things about Silver and understand that it is working for many, but would like to have technical answers to these questions if they are out there to be had... Thanks, rob ___ >> Rob: I would like to make you aware that I offer "silver-list" subscribers a high quality CS at a special discounted price of $10/liter + shipping (If you're interested receiving a supply, please let me know how much you want together with your zip code so I can calculate the total price). All I ask is that you report back to our discussion group the dose used (quantity and frequency), purpose and results observed. In addition, I offer a unique research report which should help answer some of your questions. Roger Altman HIGH PURITY COLLOIDAL SILVER AND REPORT I personally produced all the data in my "First of its Kind Colloidal Silver Report". I monitored my silver elimination rate AFTER I had ingested approximately 2.3 mg of colloidal silver each day for several months. I then stopped taking the colloidal silver so that I could monitor how quickly my body was able to eliminate retained silver over time. Bill Schenker, MD helped me design the data gathering procedures. The results are divided into two parts. The first part is a preliminary study showing the distribution of eliminated silver in hair, nails, perspiration, feces and urine. The second part, which represents the bulk of the study, concentates on monitoring silver distribution between feces and urine over time. These results reveal that there may be two different mechanisms controlling silver retention. Each one appears to be influenced by the quantity of silver already present in body tissue. I also discovered a simple way to change silver elimination rate by a factor of 3. This report sells for $20. To receive a copy of the report, and/or colloidal silver please a send check, or money order to: Dr. Roger Altman, RR1 Box 102, Natural Bridge, NY 13665 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water it is Made in
I have been puzzled by the consistant observation that CS produced by the HVAC method has a pH on the order of 3.5 - 4.8. The actual pH found probably depends on the ppm of the CS produced, and on the technical details and operating parameters of the HVAC process itself. However, these operational details are irrelevant to the point at hand. I have a background in thermodynamics so the idea of "activity" as opposed to "concentration" is not foreign to me. You can appreciate the distinction somewhat if you recall that ppm is really a measure of overall concentration of, say, silver, but the "activity" of the silver at a given ppm will vary greatly if we are talking about silver ion, or silver particles of 0.001 micron, or 0.1 micron in size, or if these particles are charged or uncharged. The reference electrodes used to measure pH do NOT measure hydrogen ion concen tration, but actually measure the hydrogen ion activity. In dilute to moderately dilute solutions (which represent most of the applications for these reference electrodes), activity and concentration are practically identical. Now here comes the exciting part. I have prepared HVAC that contains about 10 ppm CS and has a pH of 4.8. By any reasonable measure this product is a dilute solution. If it were to contain, for example, 10% hydrogen peroxide (which has a pH no lower than 5.3), tasting only a fraction of a teaspoon would be a VERY unpleasant experience (believe me, I tried it with only a 3% solution and it definitely gets your attention). However, my HVAC CS product is practically tastless. So I believe it is safe to rule out the presence of all but minute quantities of hydrogen peroxide (which, of course, would have a negligible effect on pH). Since my HVAC process uses high purity silver electrodes and distilled water ONLY, there is virtually NO OTHER species which could cause the pH to be so low. Therefore, the only reasonable conclusion is the the activity of the hydrogen ion has be altered in essentially pure water. In other words, the structure of the water itself has been substantially changed. Now let's take a closer look at how this could have happened. The HVAC process operates in excess of 10,000 volts. The particles produced have been found to be at the low end of the micron scale when compared to the size of LVDC CS particles. In addition, HVAC CS has been found to be quite stable over extended periods of time. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that these particles are not only highly charged, but are able to retain their charge indefinitely. If all of the above observations are accurate, then it appears that when these highly charged CS particles break away from the silver electrode, they have a very strong polarizing effect on the surrounding water so that normal H2O molecules (water is essentially undissociated and therefore in molecular form) become more like polarized +HOH- molecules. The OH- side if the molecule is attracted to the positively charged aggregated silver particles, thus leaving the H+ side "sticking out" which causes the activity of H+ to be greatly enhanced. Incidently, the mechanism of surrounding the CS with polarized water molercules goes a long way to explains why HVAC CS is so stable over time. Therefore, HVAC CS MAY have ADDITIONAL MEDICINAL PROPERITIES (there is one vender I've found on the Internet who sells "Restructed Water" which is supposed to have health benefits) because the water itself has been restructured. If anyone would like to test this theory by experimenting with my HVAC CS please get in touch with me, and I'll send you a 1 oz sample. All I ask is that you send along $3 to cover shipping costs. Dr. Roger Altman RR1 Box 102 Natural Bridge, NY 13665 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water it is Madein
In a message dated 00-04-25 01:33:15 EDT, you write: << Roger as I understand it, the water molecule is naturally polarised taking this arrangement [H+] --- [O(2-)] --- [H+], ie having a negatively charged oxygen head and two positively charged hydrogen tails (the tails forming a ~105 deg angle). Good point Ivan. A batter way to have developed my idea would be to have said that in the presence of the charged aggregated CS particles, the polarization of the water molecules is enhanced. Silver ions become hydrated and form micelles, ie are surrounded by water molecules, in this case with their tails pointing out. Is there any reason to think that this is not what is happening? This happens with LVDC CS also, which, if well made is every bit as stable as well made HVAC CS. I have NO experience with the kind of LVDC CS that remains stable indefinitely. As far as silver ions are concerned, I don't believe that silver ions are present, and even if they were, they would be associated with the NO3- anion (or perhaps you could name another -- as I said repeatedly on this forum positive or negative ions DO NOT exist as separate entities, but are always CLOSELY associated with ions of the opposite charge to preserve local electrical neutrality) which we already know produces an acidic pH (salt from a weak base, strong acid rule) ALL BY ITSELF. There is probably some other reason causing the low pH reading, perhaps ranging from CO2 inclusion to AgOH production, or possibly faulty / inappropriate pH measuring equipment. The pH measurments for my HVAC CS sample were obtained from 3 separate and independent sources. In addition, I checked the "silver-list archives" and found that the HVAC CS acidic pH phenomenon has been talked about repeatedly. As far as CO2 is concerned, there is NO WAY that the presence of carbonic acid could account for the low pH. For example, the CO2 typically dissolved in rainwater could be said to be in equilibrium with the ~380 ppm of CO2 in air. If you calculate the pH from this assumption you would arrive at a pH of 5.6 - 5.7. Of course, you could ignore the assumption of equilibrium, in which case the pH would be even higher. As far as AgOH is concerned, you will have to elaborate on this topic. The HVAC CS I produce is crystal clear. Where is the insoluble (and as far as I know relatively unstable AgOH) hiding? Restructured water, restoring water to its 'crystaline' form can be accomplished in many ways, but the health benefits acrue from drinking this water rather than tap or 'dead' water. Leaving the pH aside, I don't believe you have shown that HVAC CS and the water it is made in, is different structurally from LVDC CS and the water it is made in. >> Ivan: You are correct. I have NOT SHOWN that "HVAC CS and the water it is made in, is different structurally from LVDC CS and the water it is made in". I have provided a working hypothesis from which creative experiments should either support or negate my hypothesis. So far, IMHO anyway, you have done neither. Roger Altman -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water it is Madein
In a message dated 00-04-25 07:51:31 EDT, you write: << Hi Roger and Ivan, My HVAC CS typically has a ph of 3.5 - 4.5 measured with an electronic ph meter or with ph strips. I don't think that defective measuring equipment is the problem or answer. This is using the "arc" method of producing CS. I do not know the ph from the submerged electrode method of producing HVAC. Bill >> Bill: Those who claim that the acidic pH measurements from HVAC CS are erroneous should support their claim with EXPERIMENTAL EVIDENCE. So far practically ALL the evidence I've seen supports your and my observations. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water it isMadein
In a message dated 00-04-25 09:16:19 EDT, you write: << Guys, I never said the measurements were erroneous, I said that there is probably some other reason causing the low pH reading, perhaps ranging from CO2 inclusion to AgOH production, or possibly faulty / inappropriate pH measuring equipment. I mentioned pH test gear as a possible source of error with this quote in mind : "Chemical reactions between electrolytes and the measured solution lead to errors. The resulting precipitates clog the pores of the junction and thereby increase the electrical resistance considerably. The following ions react with KCI to form compounds of low solubility: Hg 2+ , Cu 2+ , Ag + , Pb 2+ , CIO 4" I have a glass lab grade pH electrode and am vigilant in keeping the junction squeaky clean. I accept that pH of HVAC CS is acidic... now why is it so? Ivan. >> Ivan: I believe I addressed the CO2 issue earlier. As I said before, I don't believe that Ag+ is present in unadulterated, electrolytically produced CS, and even if it were, why would it clog "the pores of the junction" if a Ag/AgCl reference electrode were used. It seems to me that a saturated condition ALREADY EXISTS by virtue of the presence of solid AgCl, so precipitation specifically at the junction would be unlikely unless LOCAL temperature fluctuations caused periodic supersaturation. And even then, the supersaturated condition would be transient. Experience with READING a good quality pH meter should reveal measurement problems with CS, or anything else for that matter. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water it isMadein
In a message dated 00-04-25 10:16:56 EDT, you write: << I disaggree here, it is quite possible to manufacture a silver colloid by precipitating the NO3 from a silver nitrate solution, leaving only the silver ions in solution. The fact that the water molecules surround the charged silver particles creates the local neutrality you mention, at the edge of the water layer.>> Frankly, I'm baffled by this statement. However, since nitrate ions are not present in my model of what is occuring, I prefer not to travel down this road. >> Well, that is getting low and rain water has a deal of other dissolved substances also, whereas distilled water has little of these and does readily absorb CO2 from the atmosphere. CO2 absorption may be a contributing factor, indeed when making pH measurements which are lower than expected this is the first place to look.<< Ivan: I don't think you understood what I was saying. Let me try to make this point another way. Bubble air into distilled water and continue to measure the pH until the cows come home and tells us what you get. >> It is perfectly possible to have a colloid of an insoluble substance. Silver itself could not be a colloid if it were soluble. AgO and AgOH will swap around depending on the pH of the solution and may have a very small particle size, besides which most insoluble substances are soluble to some degree.<< Have you identified these species using SEM, TEM or by x-ray diffraction methods. If not, where's the evidence for such compounds? > Yes that's true enough, although I have tried to show that your theory of polarised water molecules being the cause of a low pH reading to be unlikely.< Ivan: I don't believe you have even begun to do that. > I know that free Ag+ ions exist in my CS because I could not read them with my ISE if it were otherwise, and I would be happy to test your CS for the same, if you foot the bill for postage to New Zealand If Ag+ ions exist, what are the counter-balancing anions. Static charge on colloidal silver particles is one thing, but separate positive or negative ions existing without INTIMATE association with ions of the opposite charge is impossible, and to suggest otherwise is incomprehensible to me. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water it isMadein
In a message dated 00-04-25 23:32:38 EDT, you write: << Roger and/or other HV people. Could you do me one favor and run an "arcing" HV unit with non-contributing electrodes (carbon?) and see if you still get low pH? That would help isolate the source of the anomaly! I would think the HV arc is breaking down the air/water to get the effect and silver has nothing to do with it! f...@health2us.com >> Thanks Fred. Good idea. If silver has nothing to do with it then please give us a mechanism to explain how a low pH can occur with carbon electrodes. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water itisMadein
Ivan: In a message dated 00-04-25 12:02:03 EDT, you write: << A rise in CO2 absorption and hence a lowering in pH, yes? Well, then measure the pH vs. time and tell us what you get. <> What evidence can you provide that 15% silver oxide (hydroxide) is produced when CS is prepared from HVAC? And even if your statement were correct the dissociation of AgOH would not produce hydronium ions. << Sorry to hear that Roger because it is certainly true. If you were to place a piece of silver wire in pure water then there will be a constant (although very small) dissolusion and reabsorption of silver ions to and from the water at the wire surface.>> Yes, and the reaction would be, Ag(s) + H2O = AgOH(s) + 1/2H2 AgOH(s) = Ag+ + OH- When you write a chemical reaction both mass and charge MUST BALANCE. If not you have an made an error. It's really that simple. Most chemists would say that these reaction doesn't go to the right, but I'll grant you that a solubility product can be calculated from the standard free energies of formation of reactants and products from reactions (1) & (2), and, therefore, the ionic concentration of Ag can be calculated. This value would be exceedingly small, but perhaps experimentally quantifiable. A friend of mine once boiled a silver round for I don't know how many hours and got about 1 ppm silver as I recall. In any case, the above chemical reactions clearly shows both the thermodynamic principle of conservation of mass and energy (that is, all mass and ionic charges are balanced) <> I think you have to be very careful here about the assumption that ALL SPECIES within a plasma are ionic. For example, the constituents of solar wind which are generated at millions of degrees within the sun are comprised of 90%H, 10%He with a SMALL FRACTION of C, O and Fe. So I would be very cautious about assuming the the silver electrode forms ionic silver within a plasma arc. My guess is that electrons are NOT stripped from the silver atoms, but rather excited to higher energy levels, and then give off light when these electrons fall back to ground state. For example, METALS are "sputtered" as thin layers on substrate; to my knowledge while enough energy is absorbed to generate a metal VAPOR PHASE, no metal IONS are produced during this process. My guess is that it would take a huge amount of energy within a plasma to produce silver ions. >> Place a piece of aluminium foil in a sample of CS, if the sol contains Ag ions then they will plate out releasing Al ions into the water.<< What about a statically charged aggregated silver particle (let's call it asp) reacting as such, Ag(asp)+ + Al -> Ag + Al+ The colloidal silver cluster has now been stripped of its charge and drops out of suspension. >> When salt (NaCl) is dissolved in water the components separate and are solvated, surrounded by water molecules, and move freely having no attraction for each other.<< Are you telling us that the sodium ions can migrate away from the chloride ions? NO TRUE!! The sodium ions and chloride ions are HIGHLY attracted to one another. >> Only ions can carry a charge in water. The electrostatic charge of particles in water is the loss or gain of electrons just as it is with ions. In fact an electrostatically charged particle is an ion.>> If that were true then colloids of silver would behaves the same as silver ions produced from silver salts. Practically everyone on this forum knows there is a huge difference in behavior between these two species. >> An Ion Selective Electrode will measure only the ions it is sensitive to and nothing else. H2O2 will react with metallic silver but not ionic silver.>> Are you saying that the reaction, 2AgNO3 + H2O2 > Ag2O + 2HNO3 would not go to the right? Why not? -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water itisMadein
In a message dated 00-04-25 11:21:17 EDT, you write: << Hi folks, Will someone please draw me a picture of a CS particle and its surrounding water with a "static charge" on the CS,? >> James: Perhaps there is someone out there who could explain on an atomic scale what happens when, say, wool is rubbed against your clothing and a static charge is developed. Where are the electrons deposited or depleted with regard to the orbitals of the woolen fiber? Is there simply a slight surplus or deficit in the "electron cloud" of the wool atoms? Unlike most metals, I don't think the CO-VALENT BONDS of wool can support an "electron cloud". Any physicists, or other knowledgeable individual willing to enlighten us? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water it isMadein
In a message dated 00-04-26 10:09:39 EDT, you write: << I would expect a low ph using arcing and carbon electrodes. Cabon plus oxygen gives carbon dioxide, which easily dissolves in water and produces carbonic acid. Marshall >> Marshall: I wrote the following to Ivan earlier. Perhaps you didn't see it. The pH measurments for my HVAC CS sample were obtained from 3 separate and independent sources. In addition, I checked the "silver-list archives" and found that the HVAC CS acidic pH phenomenon has been talked about repeatedly. As far as CO2 is concerned, there is NO WAY that the presence of carbonic acid could account for the low pH. For example, the CO2 typically dissolved in rainwater could be said to be in equilibrium with the ~380 ppm of CO2 in air. If you calculate the pH from this assumption you would arrive at a pH of 5.6 - 5.7. Of course, you could ignore the assumption of equilibrium, in which case the pH would be even higher. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water it isMadein
In a message dated 00-04-26 10:23:53 EDT, you write: << n a message dated 00-04-26 10:09:39 EDT, you write: << I would expect a low ph using arcing and carbon electrodes. Cabon plus oxygen gives carbon dioxide, which easily dissolves in water and produces carbonic acid. Marshall >> Marshall: I wrote the following to Ivan earlier. Perhaps you didn't see it. The pH measurments for my HVAC CS sample were obtained from 3 separate and independent sources. In addition, I checked the "silver-list archives" and found that the HVAC CS acidic pH phenomenon has been talked about repeatedly. As far as CO2 is concerned, there is NO WAY that the presence of carbonic acid could account for the low pH. For example, the CO2 typically dissolved in rainwater could be said to be in equilibrium with the ~380 ppm of CO2 in air. If you calculate the pH from this assumption you would arrive at a pH of 5.6 - 5.7. Of course, you could ignore the assumption of equilibrium, in which case the pH would be even higher. Roger >> Marshall: I should probably add that the use of carbon electrodes will create a much higher CO2 partial pressure above the water DURING PROCESSING. However, the CO2 will dissipate very quickly, and the ~380 ppm CO2 in the surrounding air will govern the FINAL concentration of carbonic acid in the water, i.e., the same equilibrium will be attained as in the example above. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>: Re: CS>Producing CS using HVAC Probably Restructures the Water it ...
In a message dated 00-04-26 15:06:13 EDT, you write: << Roger said: "If that were true then colloids of silver would behaves the same as silver ions produced from silver salts. Practically everyone on this forum knows there is a huge difference in behavior between these two species." I do believe there is no difference in my tummy from free silver ions from my Cs or silver ions from silver nitrate (just that the nitrates are yucky). Solvating gives free ions, which are passed onto the blood stream! The Cs I drink is surely complexed and solvated also in my tummy, before being absorbed. Fred had asked: "Could you do me one favor and run an "arcing" HV unit with non-contributing electrodes (carbon?) and see if you still get low pH? That would help isolate the source of the anomaly! I would think the HV arc is breaking down the air/water to get the effect and silver has nothing to do with it!" Roger said: "Thanks Fred. Good idea. If silver has nothing to do with it then please give us a mechanism to explain how a low pH can occur with carbon electrodes." I am not a chemist, but know from experience, that you can ruin good HV insulating oil if there is an ionizing arc in a transformer, by acid build up! Fred: Has this "acid" ever been analyzed? Your process is a continuous arc process and thus can keep adding acid products to the water. A corona (ionizing) discharge can also do the same, but at a slower rate. Did you run a time/pH yet to see where the curve flattens? Fred: No I didn't. Can someone help us out here. How does the "ionizing arc...keep adding acid products to the water"? Practically everyone experienced with the arc variety of HVAC CS has noticed this phenomenon, but there doesn't appear to be consensus explanation for it. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS and HIV
In a message dated 00-05-03 10:55:59 EDT, you write: << Hey, Listers... I have been part of this list for a few months now. I have HIV, and I turned to CS to see what the effects would be for me. I went to get my results yesterday from my lab tests after using the CS since January. I talked to my doctor very briefly about CS. He's trying to warn me about the long term side effects. Then again, no one knows the long term effects of the HIV drugs, either. Anyway. My viral load the last time I was tested was at 22,000 copies per CC of blood, and my T-Cell count was at 598. This time my T-cell count was 594 and my viral load was at 16,000 copies per CC of blood. Not the changes I was expecting, by any means. It was a good sign that the viral load went down, but it was not as low as I was thinking the CS would get it to. The questions I am thinking of now...was the CS effective in slowly bringing my load down, or has my body hit a plateau for the time being, and is it successfully holding off the virus right now? I am not sure what to think or believe. I am not too concerned about the viral load right now, unless it gets up over 20,000 again. I should be fine until then because my T-Cell count is high. The next question isdo I just continue taking the CS, or do I begin taking the medications that will get my viral load down to undetectable? Kinda crazy. I am at a loss what to think or do right now. I am disapointed, but I have to continue the fight. Let me know what you think. >> Chad: Please tell us how the CS you're taking now was prepared, how often you take it and what the concertration is. Also, how long you've been taking CS in general and/or this particular CS prep? Do you have any more (blood?) data you can share with us? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS and HIV
In a message dated 00-05-03 15:49:43 EDT, you write: << What type of Blood Data are you referring to? >> Chad: Simply more data of the type you have already reported. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS and HIV
In a message dated 00-05-03 17:26:38 EDT, you write: << My first test was done in September. My viral load was at 4,000 copies and T-cells at 480. My second test was in December and my viral load was at 13,000 copies and T-cells at 596. My third test was in January and my viral was at 22,000 copies and T-cells at 598. My last test was after using silver. My viral was at 16,000 and T-cells at 594. >> Chad: Please keep us abreast of your latest viral load and T-cell count. I can do a "t-test" (statistical) analysis which would provide some guidance if the numbers themselves aren't clear enough to tell us if the CS is helping. It would be better if you got an analysis of the ppm CS you're taking. I'm sure there are "silver-listers" who could help in this regard. Also try to measure how many ounces you take in a day. themselves. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>HVAC
In a message dated 00-05-03 18:42:43 EDT, you write: << i've been producing cs with low voltage but am interested in building a high voltage generator. can anyone give me info or point me in the right direction to find the info for building a high voltage unit? any help will be greatly appreciated. thank you in advance! >> Ed: Building and operating your own HVAC CS generator could be dangerous. Do you have any experience with high voltage (~10,000 volts)? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Super ionic CS
In a message dated 00-05-16 17:18:40 EDT, you write: << When ionic cs is made the ph lowered a little which is why one can't use a standard TDS unit with it. The time vs ppm chart that came with it is fiirly accurate. The ionic cs is much more powerful than the non-ionic. A 10 ppm cs made with your unit is equivalent in bacteria killing power of about 1000 ppm dc or non ionic cs. you can make non ionic cs by putting both electrodes in the water >> I can't speak to using conductivity of other analytical techniques to measure the silver concentration, but from my experience it may be possible to make three different types of CS because you can alter the HVAC process at least three ways. (1)The first way is to have both electrodes in the water. The production rate is very slow. (2)The second way is to have only one electrode in the water while the second electrode is above the water which forms an arc. The production rate is probably faster, but I've never actually measured the difference in production rate between (1) & (2). (3)The third way is to use the same set-up as in (2), but by varying the wire diameter, selecting the height the electrode is above the surface, and carefully manipulating the power supply voltage, you can begin to melt the silver and "sputter" it off the electrode surface. The production rate here is probably 100 or more times faster than (1) or (2) and you can make any concentration you want (into the hundreds of ppm) that is completely stable over time. Another bonus is that you don't have to use distilled water if you're in the pinch (although I never considered using anything else). Roger Altman -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Taking CS internally
In a message dated 00-05-16 18:30:30 EDT, you write: << s it safe to take two ounces of CS daily for three years? Has anyone on the list taken CS daily for two or more years? Are there any long term side-effects from taking CS daily for several years? M. Louis >> Bruce Marx claims to have been taking several mg/day for several years. Can someone provide his URL, I don't have it handy. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Infantile asthma -- Will CS help?
In a message dated 00-05-18 17:44:10 EDT, you write: << My questions: 1. Is there any reason to believe that administration of CS drops in my granddaughter's ears would help eradicate recurring ear infections? 2. Is it possible that inhalation of a CS solution, administered via a spray bottle or atomizer, could help deal with the asthma problem? Though I have studied alternative remedies for most common ailments for almost 40 years now, asthma is a problem which I have never previously examined, as it has never appeared in my family or among my friends before. I don't know if it is viral or bacterial in origin or if it is some type of allergic reaction to environmental agents, for example. Do any of you have any ideas about whether CS could be helpful in these circumstances? Thank you. Christy >> Christy: I have first hand experience using CS for ear infections. Sometimes CS drops in my infected ear did not work because my ear was plugged up with wax. So I mixed some ~ 40 ppm CS with ~ 20 mls. of 70% IPA (isopropyl alcohol) and applied a heating pad as well. This combination helped dissolve the wax that was impeding direct contact with the CS alone. Within 12 hours the pain was nearly all gone and within 24 hours I was cured. Perhaps others on the list could comment about the suitability of using this sort of treatment for an infant. Roger Altman -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Just When We Thought HVAC CS Was DOA, Look What Happened.....
List: Wednesday evening I felt myself coming down with a sore throat (I decided a year or two ago to stop taking CS prophylactically because it provided poor systemic protection, in my case anyway) so I started taking a low dc voltage, limiting current (ma <=1.43, and a bubbler was used during production) CS (*concentration unknown, but it had a significant Tyndall). However, my condition steadily worsened. By Thursday afternoon had consumed more than 10 oz. of this CS as the infection spread to my lungs and ears. However, I did notice some temporary relief (for a few minutes) if I let a mouthful of the CS trickle down into my throat from a prone position, but that's very difficult to do for more than a few seconds without swallowing. Enter the much maligned HVAC CS. At about 6 pm Thursday evening, I decided to spray ~1 ppm HVAC CS (pH = 4.5, no Tyndall -- tastes like water despite the low pH) directly into my throat while breathing deeply through my mouth and trying not to swallow. Using a spray bottle, (as opposed to the method described above) made it much easier to refrain from swallowing, thus allowing the heavier "atomized" water particles to coat the surface of my sore throat. In addition, the smallest of the water droplets had a reasonable chance of reaching my lungs (breathing deeply helps too) where the infection was much more severe. Within minutes I felt better. I continued to follow this procedure later that evening (feeling better and worse during the evening), and during the night as well (whenever I got up, I added a few drops of the HVAC CS to each ear as well). By 6 am I was 90% better, and now as I write this email (7:30 am. I also took another "shot" of my HVAC CS about an hour ago for good measure), I feel I'm completely normal -- quite dramatic when you consider that I was practically climbing the walls for much of yesterday. Admittedly, this result is a singIe observation, and may not mean that much by itself. However, I recall that the recent BYU "Silver Solution" work showed generally that 5 ppm of this (presumably CS) prep was needed to kill the various types of bacteria, and 2.5 ppm only inhibited further growth. So it is quite surprising that the ~1 ppm HVAC CS did so well "in vivo" while the former result was based on "in vitro" measurments. If anyone is interested in following up on my recent findings please let me know and I'll send you a one ounce sample of the same 1 ppm HVAC CS brew that I used. BTW, 1 ounce is more than sufficient if it is administered from a spray bottle which I HIGHLY recommend based on the almost miraculous results I observed. Please send my $3 to cover shipping it to you, and most importantly, please report your observations to "list subscribers". Dr. Roger Altman -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Just When We Thought HVAC CS Was DOA, Look What Happened.....
In a message dated 00-05-26 09:27:16 EDT, you write: << You mentioned that CS has "poor systemic" protection: Wednesday evening I felt myself coming down with a sore throat (I decided a year or two ago to stop taking CS prophylactically because it provided poor systemic protection, in my case anyway) I am rather new to this list, but am curious what this means. Does this mean CS is not distributed well throughout the body? thanks, rob in memphis >> Rob: I think the jury in out with regard to CS providing systemic protection. My suspicion is that CS DOES provide significant systemic protection, but without some sort of statistical study, there is no proof yet. However, my point was that since I can treat most illnesses effectively once I catch the bug, why bother taking CS daily since long term (10-20 years) ingestion risks are still largely unknown. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Just When We Thought HVAC CS Was DOA, Look What Happened.....
In a message dated 00-05-27 09:28:22 EDT, you write: << ## The difference you observed is probably from the different application procedures rather than a difference in the CS. Inhaling an atomized spray gets that CS to the most efficient blood interface of the lungs second only to injection. Sinus cavities and nasal passages are highly efficient too...ask any coke head. It also went directly to the site of the infection, undiluted. PPM, when applied to the body has to take dilution in bodily fluids into account. If applied directly, PPM can be initially lower and still deliver sufficient PPM to the site. If simply ingesting CS, it has to go through a lot of different absorption sites to be distributed in the body. What does stomach acid do to CS? [for instance] How much CS gets absorbed by the mouth and throat before it reaches the stomach? The other day I had a bad sinus headache. I positioned myself upside down on the couch with my head hanging off the edge and dripped a little CS into my nose. [11PPM by the meter] It filled the sinus cavity all the way up to the eye and actually made my eye burn slightly. I stayed in that position for 6 minutes. 10 minutes laterno sinus pain...no headache. KD'C >> KD'C: Thanks very enlightening. I have a post script to my saga. Yesterday after about 6-8 hours I had a relapse, but this time my lungs remained clear and there was no sore throat. What I had was typical cold symtoms -- runny nose, sinus head ache and from the sound of my voice, I could tell my sinuses were NOT in good shape. I should have mentioned that yesterday, but I was so delighted with my recovery (including my sinuses to some extent), I thought the rest would soon go away. Well it didn't and things got progressively worse. I continued with the original spray treatment, but this time it was much less effective because, presumably, inhaling the spray through my mouth was not helping my sinuses very much. Today, however, I'm much improved. Perhaps my own immune defenses decided to wake up and help out a little. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>HVAC CS Probably Comes in at least Three Forms.
There may even be one form out there that actually fits the theory below. One thing IS clear: it's a lot easier to produce HVAC than it is to characterize the CS produced ESPECIALLY with regard to its germ killing power. "Not to pick on you, so please don't take this the wrong way (as I consider you to be a valuable asset to the list, and the colloidal silver community in general (some of your research is outstanding! IMHO)), however, I've never gotten a really good rebuttal for the following... I quote an old lister who says it best... "In an AC powered operation as some others are promoting, where the polarity is constantly switched, other undesirable things may happen; it is known that in all electro-colloidal silver generating processes, some charge stripping of silver ions does occur as they come in contact with the cathode, resulting in their gaining electrons, and the resulting reduction to atomic silver particles (without the charge that is said to produce the pathogen disabling effect.) In a DC system, these reduced metallic particles remain as a grayish 'sludge' buildup on the surface of the cathode, and eventually are very visible at higher current levels. In a system where the polarity is switched constantly (as in AC), this sludge is propelled and dispersed back into the water continuously, as evidenced by the 'clean electrodes' spoken of." He then goes on to say... "Mechanical effects of redispersal of plated out silver "sludge" from the cathode will occur at higher concentrations and especially at higher currents, especially if AC is used, resulting in much coarser, uncharged metallic silver particles than may be desired floating about in your product. Filtering with good lab quality filter media may be able to remove some of this "non-ionic" silver; settling of most of the really larger particle "clumps" might also occur within 72 hours, I'd estimate, if the particles are not too fine. I guess the question is this; are the positively charged colloidal silver ions, (as produced in a DC process), what you want in your product, or do you want non-charged 'non-ionic' metallic silver particles, as produced in the AC processes? From what I have researched and what I understand at this time, I'd stay with Dr. Becker's recommendations myself, and try to produce the positively charged Colloidal Silver Ions with a DC process." The old lister that I'm quoting above is none other than Bruce Stenulson and for those that are interested, he's got a wonderful site up with tons of colloidal silver info. His main CS pages are... http://web.idirect.com/~showcase/althealth/makecs.htm The above is a great technical page http://web.idirect.com/~showcase/althealth/cspulse.htm The above tells one how to make a CS Generator / Zapper in great detail http://web.idirect.com/~showcase/althealth/csdisc.htm The above is some choice discussions from the silver list from a few years ago, but still applicable Yours in health, James Allison" A couple of weeks ago I described three separate ways to make HVAC CS. Allow me to cut and paste it below. I can't speak to using conductivity of other analytical techniques to measure the silver concentration, but from my experience it may be possible to make three different types of CS because you can alter the HVAC process at least three ways. (1)The first way is to have both electrodes in the water. The production rate is very slow. (2)The second way is to have only one electrode in the water while the second electrode is above the water which forms an arc. The production rate is probably faster, but I've never actually measured the difference in production rate between (1) & (2). (3)The third way is to use the same set-up as in (2), but by varying the wire diameter, selecting the height the electrode is above the surface, and carefully manipulating the power supply voltage and water conductance , you can begin to melt the silver and "sputter" it off the electrode surface. The production rate here is probably 100 or more times faster than (1) or (2) and you can make any concentration you want (into the hundreds of ppm) that is completely stable over time. Another bonus is that you don't have to use distilled water if you're in the pinch (although I never considered using anything else). Are we to believe that one mechanism to describe particle charge (or lack there of) and shape fits all of the above? Roger Altman - -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Silver Electrodes touching sides/bottom
In a message dated 00-06-04 11:58:55 EDT, you write: << People, No one has yet answered WHY it is necessary to prevent the electrodes from touching the sides or the bottom. To reiterate, My electrodes touch the sides of the pyrex glass container in which I make my CS, and the silver comes out just fine. Nina >> Nina: The only reason I can think of to avoid having the electrodes touch the sides of the container in that you are inadvertantly increasing the current density. If the current density gets too high your CS brew will suffer in quality. Whether or not CS quality suffers in actuality depends on the setup you are using. In your cas there appears to be no problem, but that doesn't mean that everyone will be so fortunate. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>"Innoculating" Ourselves with CS
Silver list: I'm hoping that list subscribers could give me some feed-back with regard to determining the best CS dosage for someone who is already sick and is about to begin taking CS. Most of the time the body's immune system is in a sort of equilibrium with various types of pathogens. Since we are constantly bombarded by one type of microbe or another, we are never really free of them. Instead, the body has to maintain a never-ending defense to keep any of them from multiplying significantly. When we do get sick, the equilibrium between our immune system and the disease-causing pathogen may be only somewhat tipped in favor of the pathogen so that it can multiply. Now the question is how much CS should we take to fight off the disease? If we were to take mega-doses of CS these's a reasonable chance that we may regain our health as quickly as possible. However, there may be a rational to take JUST ENOUGH CS to tip the scales in our favor so that our immune system can respond almost naturally. If we were to follow this practice, wouldn't the body have a better chance to develop its own antibodies that will provide a long term defense against this particular illness? Taking CS in this manner, would emulate how innoculations are supposed to work. Any thoughts? Roger Altman -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>"Innoculating" Ourselves with CS
In a message dated 00-06-04 21:15:45 EDT, you write: << Hello Roger, As silver disables pathogens rather than destroying them, ie prevents their reproduction or ability process energy, the immune system (antibodies et al) is still required to latch onto and break the pathogenic cells apart and eliminate them. As I see it, silver stops or slows the proliferation of infectious agents (the cells of which may divide every 20mins) and allows the immune system to catch up to and clear the infection in a shorter time frame than otherwise would have occurred. Far better to be healthy and to have an efficient immune system, than to rely on silver to 'protect' you IMO, and only use silver when required. Ivan. >> Ivan: So based on your reasoning, taking large doses on CS (only at the onset of illness) would be a better strategy than just trying to take the minimum amount of CS under the same conditions since the body's own immune system is needed for the final elimination of these microbes. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> HVAC
In a message dated 00-06-04 21:28:28 EDT, you write: << Hi there Bob, Ivan: You said, "If one strikes an arc in moist air (as found above a body of water), ozone and nitric acid are formed." During sputtering I smell virtually no ozone. I am interested in your idea about nitric acid though. I may submit a sample for analysis. But before I do, I'd like you to tell me the difference in taste between my HVAC CS with a pH of 4 or so, and a sample of laboratory grade nitric acid made to pH ~4. If you agree to a taste test, I'll submit my HVAC CS for nitric acid analysis. Then you said, "If you use silver electrodes the silver will be sputtered as silver ions and silver oxide." I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here as well. It can be demonstrated quite easily that silver oxide is unstable at sputtering temperatures. As far a producing silver ions in the arc goes, I have not run across any evidence that an electropotential that is barely high enough to ionize air, is anywhere near the electropotential required to ionize silver. If you have some data that confirms the production of silver ions at ~10,000 volts please pass it along. And finally you said, "The ozone will most likely become H2O2 where it reacts with water,..." Oh boy, I know I'm on thin ice now, but I'm not likely to agree with you here as well. I sampled a very small amount of 3% H2O2 in my mouth a few weeks ago. A very ugly experience. Again, my HVAC CS tastes a lot like water. So how much H2O2 could I have made, particularly when I never smelled any ozone in the first place? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>"Innoculating" Ourselves with CS
In a message dated 00-06-04 23:35:49 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: CS>"Innoculating" Ourselves with CS Date: 00-06-04 23:35:49 EDT From: i...@win.co.nz (Ivan Anderson) Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com To:silver-list@eskimo.com Well, to be clear Roger, this is my view : 1.The best protection from pathogens and toxins is a healthy immune system. 2. Silver is not an immune system booster but rather an adjunct to it. 3. Silver works by disabling pathogens so that they may not proliferate, thus lessening the work required by the immune system to clear the infection. 4. The metallothioneins which the body uses to chelate and eliminate toxic metals are used to eliminate silver also. If high doses of silver are present these proteins may not be able to eliminate toxic metals as readily, and if overwhelmed, may result in the deposition of silver in the tissue. 5. I would use silver in fairly large doses at the onset and throughout the course of an infection, split into many small doses during the day, and discontinue silver use once the infection has passed. 6. I would use silver as a preventative before eating suspect food, close contact with infectious persons etc., and as a disinfective in the kitchen (notably inside the refrigerator) and bathroom. Regards, Ivan. >> Ivan: Thanks very much for you insight. I'm particularly interested in item (4) which I will repeat, piece by piece, here. 4. "The metallothioneins which the body uses to chelate and eliminate toxic metals are used to eliminate silver also." Can you provide a reference that supports this statement with regard to colloidal silver? "If high doses of silver are present these proteins may not be able to eliminate toxic metals as readily, and if overwhelmed, may result in the deposition of silver in the tissue." Proponents of colloidal silver have been telling us that it will not cause Argyria at practically any level of concentration/ingestion rate. We have all heard of individuals who continue to take massive quantities of it without any negative effects. I myself took 2.3 mg per day for several months without any noticeable impairment. So in light of these observations could you please expand on your statement above? Thanks, Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> HVAC
In a message dated 00-06-05 01:14:27 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: CS> HVAC Date: 00-06-05 01:14:27 EDT From: i...@win.co.nz (Ivan Anderson) Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com To:silver-list@eskimo.com - Original Message - From: > Ivan: > > You said, > > "If one strikes an arc in moist air (as found above a body of water), > ozone and nitric acid are formed." > > During sputtering I smell virtually no ozone. I am interested in your idea > about nitric acid though. I may submit a sample for analysis. But before I > do, I'd like you to tell me the difference in taste between my HVAC CS with a > pH of 4 or so, and a sample of laboratory grade nitric acid made to pH ~4. If > you agree to a taste test, I'll submit my HVAC CS for nitric acid analysis. The fact that you have generated an arc necessarily means that you have ionised the air. This can be achieved by as little as 50 V. By ionising air you are creating ozone. Whether you can smell it or not is not a reliable guage of its production or concentration. It is a fact that the biggest problem that faces ozone generators using undried atmospheric air is the production of nitric acid. I have no desire to experience the taste of dilute nitric acid :-b Whether you test for nitric acid is up to you. IVAN: WELL YOU PEAKED MY CURIOSITY TO ANALYZE MY HVAC CS FOR NITRIC ACID. > Then you said, > > "If you use silver electrodes the silver will be sputtered as silver ions and > silver oxide." > > I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here as well. It can be demonstrated quite > easily that silver oxide is unstable at sputtering temperatures. As far a > producing silver ions in the arc goes, I have not run across any evidence > that an electropotential that is barely high enough to ionize air, is > anywhere near the electropotential required to ionize silver. If you have > some data that confirms the production of silver ions at ~10,000 volts please > pass it along. The 1st ionization potential of silver (7.576 eV) is less than that of oxygen (13.618 eV). IVAN: DO YOU HAVE A REFERENCE THAT DEMONSTRATES THE PRODUCTION OF METAL IONS FROM A 10,000 VOLT ARC? Yes, silver oxide is unstable at >150 degC, but the silver oxide which contacts the water is from then on stable. IVAN: THE RAPID QUENCHING THAT TAKES PLACE WILL VIRTUALLY ELIMINATE THE PRODUCTION OF SILVER OXIDE. Furthermore, "The pH of silver colloids should fall between 6.5 and 8 because increasing amounts of silver oxide will appear as the pH of the solution falls below 6.5 and silver oxide is a less effective bactericide than pure silver." (The Silver Institute). > And finally you said, > > "The ozone will most likely become H2O2 where it reacts with water,..." > > Oh boy, I know I'm on thin ice now, but I'm not likely to agree with you here > as well. I sampled a very small amount of 3% H2O2 in my mouth a few weeks > ago. A very ugly experience. Again, my HVAC CS tastes a lot like water. So > how much H2O2 could I have made, particularly when I never smelled any ozone > in the first place? I don't know Roger. I answered Bob's question about what might be causing such a high conductivity reading with a comparatively low silver content. Something is also causing the low pH (assuming he started with ~pH7 water), I suggest that H2O2 and nitric acid may be contributing factors. IVAN: ANALYZING FOR NITRIC ACID SHOULD BE A GOOD FIRST STEP IN SOLVING THE PUZZLE. THANKS. ROGER BTW, I regularly use 3% H2O2 to clean my teeth ;-) > Roger Regards, Ivan >> -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>"Innoculating" Ourselves with CS
In a message dated 00-06-05 09:21:37 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: CS>"Innoculating" Ourselves with CS Date: 00-06-05 09:21:37 EDT From: i...@win.co.nz (Ivan Anderson) Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com To:silver-list@eskimo.com http://bssv01.lancs.ac.uk/StuWork/BIOS316/Bios31698/Mthion/MET.HTM http://www.nal.usda.gov/ttic/tektran/data/09/46/094696.html http://lowdose.org/pubs/ehp/members/klaassenfull.html http://bssv01.lancs.ac.uk/StuWork/BIOS316/Bios31699/AgMet/AgMet.html http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/tox3-4.html http://link.springer.de/link/service/journals/00898/meeting/cant97/c2.ht m#xtocid12350 http://www.uwo.ca/chem/faculty/stillman.html - Original Message - From: > Ivan: > > Thanks very much for you insight. I'm particularly interested in item (4) > which I will repeat, piece by piece, here. > > 4. "The metallothioneins which the body uses to chelate and eliminate > toxic metals are used to eliminate silver also." > > Can you provide a reference that supports this statement with regard to > colloidal silver? > > "If high doses of silver are present these proteins may not be able to > eliminate toxic metals as readily, and if overwhelmed, may result in the > deposition of silver in > the tissue." > > Proponents of colloidal silver have been telling us that it will not cause > Argyria at practically any level of concentration/ingestion rate. We have all > heard of individuals who continue to take massive quantities of it without > any negative effects. I myself took 2.3 mg per day for several months without > any noticeable impairment. So in light of these observations could you please > expand on your statement above? > > Thanks, > > Roger Hi Roger, I believe the lowest reported dose that induced Argyria was 2g over 9 months, so taking CS is unlikely to cause this. Here are some links to papers discussing the role of metallothioneins : http://bssv01.lancs.ac.uk/StuWork/BIOS316/Bios31698/Mthion/MET.HTM http://www.nal.usda.gov/ttic/tektran/data/09/46/094696.html http://lowdose.org/pubs/ehp/members/klaassenfull.html http://bssv01.lancs.ac.uk/StuWork/BIOS316/Bios31699/AgMet/AgMet.html http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/tox3-4.html http://link.springer.de/link/service/journals/00898/meeting/cant97/c2.ht m#xtocid12350 http://www.uwo.ca/chem/faculty/stillman.html Good night, Ivan. >> Ivan: Many thanks: Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>COULD SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME THE FORMULA FOR AMPS PER SQ CM OR
In a message dated 00-06-05 10:45:06 EDT, you write: << That is interesting. In our HVAC process we are running 100 mA, and this produces 5 ppm in 5 gallons an hour. According to the figure above, we should have liberated 400 mg of silver (making 20 ppm of CS), so we are getting about 25% efficiency on generating the colloid. Marshall >> Marshall: I think if you compare the output of a typical HVAC setup to the type of LVDC set up recommended here, you will find a much lower output from HVAC. However, if you sputter silver off the electrode the output increases by at least two orders of magnitude. To calculate current density, divide your operating current by the wetted surface area of the silver electrodes. I don't think you'll find that the current density difference sheds much light on the difference in CS output between HVAC and LVDC. It probably has more to do with the high energy required to produce the smaller particle size from HVAC. Roger Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re:HVAC-LVDC
In a message dated 00-06-05 23:41:46 EDT, you write:
<< Subj: CS>Re:HVAC-LVDC
Date: 00-06-05 23:41:46 EDT
From: f...@health2us.com (Fred)
Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com
To:silver-list@eskimo.com
Roger, have you found the Holy Grail? Is sputtering 25+ times more effecient
("output increases by at least two orders of magnitude") then the relatively
loss less LVDC process? You and others often refer to "sputtering", the
definition which I know, (as in vacuum metalization) is the vaporization of a
metal (atoms, not ions?). Are you not then producing with sputtering a fine
suspension of silver particles?
Fred: Yes, you are partially correct. I believe what happens during
sputtering is that the tip of the electrode becomes superheated well beyond
the melting point of silver, producing a significant silver vapor pressure
(At times I can see bubbles immerge from the surface of the molten silver
sphere at the electrode tip.) Then the fast moving ionized plasma collide
with the gaseous silver imparting a strong static charge as the silver atoms
are rapidly quenched into the water bath below so silver oxide is not formed
since (according to Ivan, and thermodynamics -- two equally reputable
sources) it is not stable above 150 degrees C.
Current density, in a real process, is rarely the wetted surface area but
usually the projected surface area with maybe a 10-20% adder for fringe
effects.
Sounds about right Fred. I seem to have forgotten some of the finer points.
Well, electrometallurgy was my minor anyway.
As to the smaller particle size with the HVAC process, the LVDC process
releases
ions and they seem to come in only one size! What is your reference to HVAC
making smaller particles?
Well, Bruce Marx and David Ripley both claim to have SEM studies which show
that their HVAC CS particles are smaller then CONVENTIONALLY produced LVDC
CS. However, the type of LVDC CS produced by some "silver listers" (< 1 ma
max, with stirring in ONLY DW) could be quite a bit smaller in particle size
and distribution, I simply don't know. Secondly, if the mechanism above is
more or less correct, SPUTTERED HVAC CS should have a very small particle
size.
Roger
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CS>How HVAC Induces a Static Charge (What have I gotten myself into here?)
In a message dated 00-06-06 11:37:54 EDT, you write: << Can you explain (or cite a reference) how this "imparting a strong static charge" is accopmlished? As far as I know the only charge an ion of silver can have is +1. This is due to the fact that the silver atom will give up one electron...and only one electron during ionization. Atoms (by definition) do not have a charge since the number of protons and electrons are equal, cancelling each other out. Regards, George Martin >> George: I was affraid someone was going to ask that question. So, let me give a try at (something of) an answer: The molecules that comprise air can be highly charged when a warm air mass flows over a cooler air mass. In fact, the static charge produced from this friction can reach such enormous levels that the air can become conductive (ionized) when lightening is produced. However, before that point, you could say that the air had a tremendous static charge. So, why is it NOT possible for SOME of the neutral silver gas atoms to be relieved of their outer shell electron by friction within the plasma, creating SOME individual Ag+ ions in the gas phase, but instantaneously forming silver agglomerates in the aqueous phase which (to be explained below), in turn, producing statically charged colloidal particles? Silver is the most conductive of metals, and metals that are highly conductive, presumably, would like to share their outer shell electrons by forming an electron cloud around associated metal atoms and ions (why not?). In so doing, the surface free energy of the particle is reduced (Nature is very big on lowering surface free energy. Ever see a cubic water droplet?), and the net deficit of outer electrons would then be evenly distributed around each particle. Therefore,. practically all silver particles become statically charged and there are no individual Ag+ ions in the sol? Your turn. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re:HVAC-LVDC
In a message dated 00-06-06 21:23:09 EDT, you write: << Marshall, Roger and Listers all, I'd like to reply to the last para below: I don't know of any SEMs that will resolve below 20 nm (nanometers); most are not better than 30 to 40 nm. The accepted choice (of particle characterization experts) for particles as small as those we are hopefully talking about here is TEM (transmission Electron Microscopy). It's a real pity that it's not possible, because Scanning EM gives one a surface map and visual depth and TEM does not. It would be so valuable to viualize the topography of these particles (and, as well, the crystalline structures one sees in HVAC products) in almost 3-D. The best of TEMs will resolve to approx. one Angstrom (a tenth of a nm). Why not ask the gentlemen to share such "studies". Stephen >> Stephen: My guess is that both vendors were more interested in showing that their HVAC CS was smaller than CS generated from any other type of electrode process. To that extent they may have succeeded, particulary if the CS they were using for comparison had a MUCH larger average particle size. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: silver-digest Digest V100 #396
In a message dated 00-06-07 00:49:00 EDT, you write: << Well, Roger, we are possibly talking about different "particles" since in solvating, the ions are held in water micelle (sp) and tend to cluster in groups of 6-8 under ideal conditions, although the many SEM's I have seen show some very large "clumps". Another thing of course is that each batch by anyone will likely have a broad range of sizes, barring the strictest of controls. I have samples coming from a few kind people, so will have something to test and try to evaluate, soon. My normal "bitch" is that the process may produce a large percentage of non-ionic forms of silver and thus have a very low bio-effacy and "why use 10,000 VAC for a 2 VDC process?" >> Fred: For (bio-efficacy) test purposes I have been using my 1 ppm HVAC CS for all sorts of ailments. So far for ALL of the people in this group, the results we're getting are as good as it gets IMHO. If things continue the way they're going, I see no reason to EVER go to a higher concentration except under emergencies, or to treat Lyme disease and other highly resistant pathogens that must be treated systemically. Incidently, the BYU study showed that, in general, 5 ppm of "Silver Solution" was needed to kill various forms of bacteria (in vitro) and 2.5 ppm only retarded growth (in vitro). Perhaps you would be willing to field test your brew at 1 ppm and report your results here. Another reason 10,000 volts looks awfully good to me as opposed to 2 volts is that I can make a years supply for my family and friends in a single evening (because I've perfected a way of sputtering silver off one of the electrodes), and the product is as stable as a rock -- no special container or guarding against light, etc. Finally, I have tried to use the, stirred, current controlled (< 1.4 ma), LVDC CS process, but my results, so far, have been no better than what I was getting from Bruce Marx's HVDC off-the-shelf unit (180 volts, stainless steel container cathode, 0.999 silver strip anode, no stirring, ~15ma start, ~140 ma finish). The product is OK for a while but after 2-6 weeks the CS drops out of suspension as a black powder. So I ask you, with regard to the HVAC CS I'm currently using, if my process ain't broke, why should I try to fix it? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>HVAC Cs
In a message dated 6/7/00 7:50:41 PM EST, f...@health2us.com writes: << Would love to get a sample to include in my tests, Roger! Fred Peschel, 3516 Delilah Drive, Cape Coral, FL 33993 Fred: I'm having my latest batch analyzed this week. If the results are acceptable, I will send you a sample. Is your pH also very depressed? Fred: Usually the pH is 3.5-4.5. Let's see what this recent sample generates. Incidentally, I hope to have more to say about what's causing the low pH. A little teaser here folks, so stay tuned. I would quickly build a unit (if it is valid) but you are the only one with a positive outlook on the process, other then the carnival hawkers! Fred: I'm positive because it has worked so well for me and others. I don't feel comfortable with the LVDC stuff I've made because the potency is not stable over time. I'm also not too sure about particle size reproducibility. Glad to pay the freight! Have any ideas on a fair field test? Fred: How much do you want? As far as field tests are concerned, here are my very unrealistic thoughts (So I like to dream. Shoot me.): How about the both of us sending X amount of our brew to a third party volunteer who then rebottles and re-labels each to disguise its origin (hopefully he notes down which is which), and sends it on to a second third party volunteer who then distributes one or the other of these samples (he will also have to re-bottle each sample into smaller containers and label each appropriately) to volunteers to use the CS as they see fit, recording pertinent ingestion amounts, intended use, and results observed over time. Perhaps we could get silver listers to kick in a few bucks each to cover shipping and re-bottling costs. I gave free quarts of 5PPM to some Lymers but got very little feedback and they all withdrew for personal reasons within a few months - most are still on this list and still looking for help in one way or another - not an easy GO-NO GO test group. Got any slimy stuff I can kill in a test tube? Fred: Send me any green slimy stuff YOURS won't kill so I can finally justify my 10,000 volt gizmo. If my CS won't kill'em, maybe the pH will. The LVDC process with gentle fluid circulation should give super stable product - we have some over a year old and it is still exactly the same - uneffected by freezing or boiling or strong UV light for weeks! Fred: Well, I'm still hopeful I'll catch on one day. Do you use plastic bottles or glass bottles to store your brew? Do it matter? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Homeopathy and HVAC CS
I'm wondering if I haven't stumbled onto a homeopathic (see portion of article cut and pasted below) "boost" for my HVAC CS. In light of the results for BYU's in vitro kill titer of ~5 ppm using "Silver Solution" CS, it is surprising that the 1 ppm I'm currently using is so effective. Homeopathy Explained? "Validation of the dilution process came in a roundabout way, thanks to research by Shui Yin Lo, a former visiting associate professor in the chemistry department at California Institute of Technology. Lo was performing experiments on how to improve car engine efficiency when he made the discovery. Lo, who now is the director of research and development at American Technologies Group found that water molecules, which are random in their normal state, begin to form a cluster when a substance is added to water and the water is vigorously shaken – the exact process homeopaths use to create their medicine. Lo said every substance exerts its own unique influence on the water, so each cluster shape and configuration is unique to the substance added. With each dilution and shaking, the clusters grow bigger and stronger. This water, which homeopaths call "potentized," is considered "structured water," because the water molecules have taken on a shape influenced by the original substance. The clusters start to assume a form that mimics the structure of the original substance itself. So even though the chemical can no longer be detected, its "image" is there, taken on by the water molecules. "If these clusters were unique to the original solute, and the observations are true that they can perpetuate themselves the more they are diluted or shaken, then the original material becomes irrelevant," Gray said." -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>A Recent Batch of My HVAC CS was analyzed for Nitrate & the Result is . . .
List; Recently I made a 5 gallon batch of HVAC CS which analyzed (Kimball Labs, Draper Utah), after dilution, to 12.7 PPM. pH was 4.4 - 4.6 and nitrate was below the detectable limit of 0.3 PPM. So the evidence continues to support the notion that the water itself is being restructured either indirectly from the high voltage used to produce CS (whereby electrostatically charged silver particles accentuate the polarity of nearby water molecules which increases the activity of hydronium ions. Thus a lower pH is observed WITHOUT generating higher concentrations of hydrogen ions), and/or directly from the electromagnetic field induced by the high frequency ac current used in the process. If fact, the silver list carried a report recently of experiments which verify that ac current can produce or accentuate the properties of structured water. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>A Recent Batch of My HVAC CS was analyzed for Nitrate & the Result is ...
-- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/14/00 3:20:36 PM EST, f...@health2us.com writes: << Did they test for ions or simply silver in any form Roger? Fred: Silver in any form. Also, should they be testing for nitrite or nitrate? My good book says nitrates are mostly from organic decomposition and nitrites and mostly from ammonia oxidation with water - seems that lightening will produce ammonia (a chemist I am not!). Fred: I wanted to know if nitric acid was present. It wasn't. The first sample I got (from another list member) failed the metallic silver test badly - over (50) O2 bubbles/sq. in. in a few hours, on a 1/2oz. sample. My interpretation is that there are very many tiny metallic particles of silver present! (My H2O2 test in a plastic baggy!) As mentioned before, silver ions will produce NO bubbles at all, even in two days! Fred: With all do respect for your methodology to distinguish charged from uncharged particles, I do not think that silver IONS are present in colloidal silver. I believe that metallic silver particles make up the sol. These particles are more or less statically charged and have a particular size distribution depending on the method and parameters used to produce it. I believe my HVAC CS product contains heavily charged minute SILVER particles. Otherwise, why is it so stable, and why is it so potent at ~ 1 PPM or less? Further, the ion test seems to have failed - adding an equal amount of 15PPM NaCl salt solution caused cloudy ness, as expected but NO crystals as expected (silver chloride is insoluble and precipitates out), unless the low pH prevents crystallization in some way??? He used the "arc" type of process. Have more tests to do on it, so will report later. Your sample did not arrive yet! Fred: I don't think I'm going to send you a sample of my HVAC CS until I'm convinced that your methodology is accurate AND until you include in your analysis a test for bioactivity. Can you run an "nitrogen free" test (enclose the reaction chamber in a plastic bag filled with O2 or CO2 or at least use a vacuum cleaner to evacuate most air from the system/bag), to see if you still get the dip in pH? That will show if the arc was producing nitric acid of if your theory of structuring has merit! Fred: There is no evidence of nitric acid present in my CS. In addition, I wonder how many technical papers I can find the demonstrates that HVAC can produce structured water? I do not believe it is happening to the extent you say, since submerged electrodes (AC current - no arc) apparently will not drop the pH, or am I mis-informed on that? Fred: Perhaps you should investigate the relationship between structured water and pH. There could be a very complex relationship between the two, particularly in the presence of electrostatically charged silver particles. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/15/00 11:13:49 PM EST, f...@health2us.com writes: << Not trying to attack you Roger, just looking for some data! I realize you were looking for nitric acid, to explain the low pH but I wonder if the reference I have, that indicates nitrites (which we all know are killers for humans) are likely! Fred: I'll ask the chemist who has my sample about the likelihood that nitrites are present and the possibility to analyze for it. Happy? Apparently the EPA limit in potable water is 45PPM for nitrates but zero for nitrites. I do not think there is any dispute that the HVAC arc process produces nitrogen compounds Fred: Until we see actual data for properly documented process conditions this point is very much is dispute. and sintered elemental silver particles, not the higher bio-available silver ions. Fred: I have yet to see any edidence to support your "higher bio-available silver ion" claim. You're simply repeating statements made by you and some others on this list. Show me the data to support this claim! Granted, you may have a silver colloid with charged particles but an electrostatic charge will not have the chemical reactivity of an ionic charge. Fred: Again. Show me the data that supports such a statement. As for your high "killing" power, silver nitrate has a long and successful history of efficient medical applications, albeit serious side effects like manufactured drugs! Fred: You're implying that I have made silver nitrate. First, you claim that I've made nothing but sintered neutral silver particles which are useless to kill germs (and you have never provided any hard data to support this contention). Now you're telling us that if I did make silver ions they were in the form of silver nitrate which is dangerous to ingest. Well, I'll say it again. There is no nitrate in my product, and I have the chemical analysis from a reputable lab to back up my claim. Which lab are you using to back up your claims? It is evidence of the efficiency of silver ions (soluble salts disassociate to ions and anions, cations or whatever). I and others who have serious questions about the HVAC process, question what you are serving your friends , not how potent it is! Fred: Give me one iote of HARD DATA to back up your so-called concern. The posts from 'OLE" Bob you may note (it was his sample I have) show that he is the most unbiased here, having expended money to build and experiment with HVAC, as a means to produce a better product and assist others, not to market anything! His recent shielded electrode test (like my prior idea of an inert atmosphere) and the submerged electrode test (with their minor pH drops), clearly gave evidence that the big pH dip in an open arc is from nitrogen products! Fred: To paraphrase Ivan, smelling and tasting things does not constitute HARD EVIDENCE. Suspicion yes, evidence no. What's good for the goose (Ivan used this statement to criticise my TENTATIVE conclusion) is also good for the gander (i.e., I can certainly use this same criticism with regard to your conclusions) What they are is still up for grabs, in my mind and I hope yours, since your nitrate test was negative! Biased I, sell what I consider the best LVDC unit (also maybe the most costly) but spend a great deal of time in research and web design time to help others with my medical findings - you have to search on my site to find my product! I have also disclosed to you and the other list members full details on exactly how I make my unit. With over 40 years in the design and manufacture of custom HVAC and DC research tools I would love to utilize that experience but for a 2 volt DC process I still wonder what all the hoopla is about HVAC. (Fast yes, known product no!) Fred: No doubt you have very strong opinions. Please support your opinions with HARD DATA.. I will find out and publish my findings with or without your sample and pay for some lab tests if needed! What if the rapidly growing HVAC industry is screwing with our bodies like the drug companies, simply because they will not validate what they are making! Fred: You sound a little hysterical here. Are you on some sort of campaign to rub out HVAC CS in the marketplace for personal reasons? The alternative health field is an attempt to escape fatal research with untested drugs - if you can not tell me what you made, I don't want it! Fred: OK. OK. Calm down. Your thought that ions of silver do not exist, only elemental silver, is so far from the main stream Fred: It wasn't so long ago that the "main stream" thought that Newtonian physics was exact at any velocity. Today, we know that isn't true. But again, I must ask you to provide HARD DATA to support your so-called mainstream view. eviI wonder what you think about a solute such as silver nitrate. Is there disassociation or will the silver just lose its bond, to drop out as elem
Re: CS>H2O2 Test
In a message dated 6/16/00 9:49:04 AM EST, f...@health2us.com writes: << Ivan had suggested using H2O2 to reduce the size of silver "clumps" as a purifying effect of poor product and the discussion of silver being a catalyst sparked an idea in my mind, as we were at the time looking for a simple home test. Give the whole list credit if you wish! I later suggested the "baggy" test, after determining it was qualitative, not quantitative and easily upset by dirty glassware! I expect the time of formation rate and density of bubbles/sq. in. are good indicators of particle size! You can note on a dime that it is a very slow process vs. the rapidity with silver "sludge" - clearly a surface area dependency! Finer particles = faster bubble formation and with more particles there will be more bubble sites/sq. in.! It is quite clear to me, that if no bubbles are formed with an ionic form of Cs (I employ all measures to avoid the formation of crystals) yet they are formed with a obviously poor running setup where a dense cloud is allowed to form and stringers start (an indication of growth of crystals) then it is a valid test to detect elemental silver. I would expect in the HVAC arc sintering process that atoms or larger particles are formed and thus the high bubble rate I found! Fred: If larger silver particles are the cause for the catalytic reduction of H2O2 (which, according to you, are prima face evidence of a poor brew), how do you explain that HVAC CS remains clear and no CS drops out of suspension over extended periods of time (probably never as far as I can tell). From all the discussion on the 'list' with regard to CS color and particle size, it seems pretty clear that the consensus opinion (Are YOU going to criticize me for relying on consensus opinion?) was that a clear sol indicates acceptably small silver particles. So you can't have it both ways; which statement is wrong and which is correct? As further verification, of the effect, you can take "ionic" Cs and let it evaporate on a glass surface, leaving a brown residue. I believe from chemistry that what is left must be of the metallic form, not ionic, a deposit of fine crystals. It foams rapidly when H2O2 is placed on it, indicating a high surface to mass area! Fred: Let me see if I've got this straight: You just made up a brew of silver IONS from your LVDC process. There are no anions present, mind you, just silver cations, but THAT doesn't seem to bother anyone on this list but me. Then you evaporate all the water and magically ALL the ionic silver turns into metallic silver. Question: Just WHAT exactly provided all the electrons to turn ionic silver into metallic silver? Seems to me, such are reaction (if, in fact, it DID occur) would produce a helluva lot of heat, or would be so rapid as to explode. Any sign of a rise in temperature, or explosion, Fred? Your turn, Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/16/00 10:23:33 AM EST, apothec...@home.com writes: << This thread seems to be going pretty good, so I thought I would step in with my two cents worth as well, but on a different note. The fact of the matter is that the FDA can't touch colloidal silver made "the old fashioned way" because of the grandfather clauses. The problem with the new and allegedly improved way is that it wasn't in use prior to the grandfather clause, and therefore can be attacked by the FEDs. From what I have read in the code, any CS made from HVAC will have to be approved as a new drug, along with all the testing. That's not such a bad thing I guess, because it's my FIRM opinion that it's not as good as LVDC, but the real problem arises because when (notice that I didn't type if) they decide to go after HVAC CS, they are going to put it to the media in such a way that it will look as if ALL CS (even LVDC) is bad, needs safety testing, could cause argeria, etc. Speaking from a pure political point of view, I can see HVAC methods as being a potentially terrible thing for the CS movement. Yours in health, James Allison >> I hate to burst you bubble James, but I have evidence that the first CS product using HVAC occurred in 1898. AND they used SPUTTERING no less. Matter of fact that's why I never considering patenting what I (apparently) rediscovered only 100 years later. Nice try, Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/16/00 11:16:09 AM EST, mama2b...@aol.com writes: << For unsophisticated plodders like me would you please define HVAC and LVDC? >> HVAC means using 10,000-15,000 volts AC to make colloidal silver. LVDC means using using 30 volts DC or less (don't get picky now) to make colloidal silver. The CONSENSUS that HVAC CS stinks and LVDC CS is the best thing since sliced bread. Hey, use WHATEVER works for you and ignore these discussions. They never get settled anyway. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/16/00 11:52:20 AM EST, apothec...@home.com writes: << Hrm, let's see, when did Tesla invent AC? I am going to have to look this one up Yours in health, James Allison >> James: While you're at it, see if you can find DETAILED information of Tesla's "wireless power transmitter" which he build in Colorado with financial backing from George Westinghouse. Which, BTW also occurred before the turn of the century. After big George saw Tesla's power plant in operation, it's reported that he asked rhetorically, "Where do I put the meter?" Funny how difficult it is to get construction details so you and I might build one. One thing's for sure: with conventional power plants, the meter reader knows exactly where to look. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/16/00 12:00:57 PM EST, apothec...@home.com writes: << Now, your telling me that somebody, 3 years later, started making CS with it? Pray tell, who was it, and what was their application? Yours in health, James Allison >> James: I said I had evidence, not that I can give you every last detail. Let's see what Marshall comes up with before you have me tearing through my all CS references to satisfy your curiosity. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>H2O2 Test
In a message dated 6/16/00 12:12:23 PM EST, an...@flosc.net writes: << Just tested HVAC CS, lab tested at 40.2 PPM, totally clear for the last 38 days, one sample in sunlite for approximately 12 hours without discoloration, no TE in room light, very slight TE in dark room with laser at 650 nm,and CS has PH of 4.38. Decanted 6 ounces into a lab cleaned bottle certified by Cole-Parmer, placed 30 drops of 35% H2O2 into the CS . . . no activity in 2 hours. Currently have sample in lab for complete testing and will have results 6-21-2000. Will post the results then Bill >> Bill: I have a hunch about testing for structured water. If you have a pH meter, this idea should be easy to do. If you were to dilute your HVAC CS 10X AND structured water were NOT present then the pH would increase one unit (assuming you DW was at pH7 -- if it's a little lower, we can make a mathematical adjustment). If structured water WERE present, the pH should stay about the same or even decrease. After diluting, try measuring the pH after EACH short term vigorous shaking. You might repeat another 10X dilution if the initial results look promising. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>H2O2 Test
In a message dated 6/16/00 12:38:25 PM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes: << rogalt...@aol.com wrote: > Bill: > > I have a hunch about testing for structured water. If you have a pH meter, > this idea should be easy to do. If you were to dilute your HVAC CS 10X AND > structured water were NOT present then the pH would increase one unit > (assuming you DW was at pH7 -- if it's a little lower, we can make a > mathematical adjustment). If structured water WERE present, the pH should > stay about the same or even decrease. After diluting, try measuring the pH > after EACH short term vigorous shaking. You might repeat another 10X dilution > if the initial results look promising. What about buffering. If you have CS that is not buffered at all then that might work, but if there is any buffering to speak of at all then ph will likely have virtually no change with a 10:1 dilution. I don't believe that structured water changes the ph, but I can easily check that since I have a meter. Marshall >> Marshall: Give us one or two examples of possible buffering species that we could reasonably expect to be present. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>H2O2 Test
In a message dated 6/16/00 1:27:12 PM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes: << Any salt will act as a buffer. Trace salts from one's skin, salts of silver if any are present. Any salts that might have arrived in the distilled water (most likely sodium chloride, calcium chloride and potassium chloride). Any salts that might have come from the leaching of silicon and potassium from the glass. Marshall >> Marshall: I'm sorry for my ignorance, but I don't onderstand how NaCl or KCl can act as buffers especially if they're in the PPM range. As far as CaCl2 is concerned, are we talking about the reaction, (Ca++) + 2H2O --> Ca(OH)2 + 2H+ ?? If that's the case, then we have to look at the solubility product of Ca(OH)2 and at the PPM of calcium in the DW in order to determine if CaCl2 can buffer the solution. Isn't that right? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/16/00 2:08:01 PM EST, f...@health2us.com writes: << Isn't this is more fun then Kim Chi and fish heads? f...@health2us.com >> Fred: If it weren't for you guys kicking me in the butt every once it a while, I would have begun to have some doubts about my HVAC CS before now. So thanks, Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re:H2O2 test
In a message dated 6/16/00 2:13:20 PM EST, f...@health2us.com writes: << I said Atoms, which sound pretty small to me! Would a suspension of atoms have a long "hang" life? It is accepted by others that silver ions cluster in groups of 6 or more and thus your atom would actually be smaller! Fred: Sorry. You'll have to run this by me again. I can't follow your reasoning. And BTW, you said "atoms, or large particles...". So I guess we're back to roughly atomic size silver particles again. >As further verification, of the effect, you can take "ionic" Cs and let it >evaporate on a glass surface, leaving a brown residue. I believe from >chemistry that what is left must be of the metallic form, not ionic, a >deposit of fine crystals. It foams rapidly when > H2O2 is placed on it, indicating a high surface to mass area! > >Fred: Let me see if I've got this straight: You just made up a brew of silver >IONS from your LVDC process. There are no anions present, mind you, just >silver cations, but THAT doesn't seem to bother anyone on this list but me. >Then you evaporate all the water and magically ALL the ionic silver turns >into metallic silver. Question: Just WHAT exactly provided all the electrons >to turn ionic silver into metallic silver? Seems to me, such are reaction >(if, in fact, it DID occur) would produce a helluva lot of heat, or would be >so rapid as to explode. Any sign of a rise in temperature, or explosion, >Fred? >No explosion Roger, I believe God took the free electrons from my highly statically charged body and contributed them to the silver ions, as the vapor produced by evaporation rose to touch my body, forming a conducting path! Try it, you will see it works every time! Fred: Well, why didn't you say so in the first place? I promise I will never ask this question again! >Your turn (please no Fred!!), >It appears one (or both) of us are out of our sphere of expertise here! Any "molecular techie helpers" out there to help Roger know an ions life cycle?:) Fred The Ion Man: Thanks for speaking for me. I'm humble enough to admit when I've been beaten by razor sharp logic. You win. You win. I give up. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re:H2O2 test
In a message dated 6/16/00 2:23:07 PM EST, ronpat...@mail.com writes: << isn't silver a mineral? ( I've heard it stated as such on a number of sites) This could be a very dumb question. Ron, somewhere in Texas >> Ron: The definition of "mineral" appears to be as slippery as the definition of "colloid". A "mineral" could mean a metal, or a naturally occurring species either combined chemically or elemental. I don't think it's a technical term. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>H2O2 Test
In a message dated 6/16/00 3:28:42 PM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes: << Ammonia 1N = 11.6 Ammonia .1N = 11.1 Ammonia .01N = 10.6 NaOH 1N = 14 NaOH .1N = 13 NaOH .01N = 12 HCL 1N = .1 HCL .1N = 1 HCL .01N = 2 The ph is a log scale. In the case of ammonia a 100 to 1 change in concentration gives only a 10% change in the ph. Marshall: I think this example is misleading because at very high pH ammonium hydroxide is only partially dissociated. We are at the other end of the spectrum where there is TOTAL dissociation of these species if, in fact they are present in any significant concentration (which I seriously doubt). Under these conditions, a 10:1 dilution brings the pH ONE UNIT closer to 7 from either direction. For most purposes pH can be equated to the negative logarithm of the hydrogen ion activity. From General Chemistry 6th edition: "Mixtures of weak acids and their salts or mixtures of weak bases and their salts are called buffer solutions. They resist a change in hydrogen-ion concentrations upon the addition of small amounts of acids or bases. An example of a buffer solution is a mixture of .1M acetic acid and .1M sodium acetate. The ;pH of the solution may be found as follows (I don't now how to key this stuff in :< ). This subject is really rather complicated, and I would suggest obtaining a college chemistry book and reading the section on pH. It is beyond my ability to totally understand it myself, and certainly to try and explain it. There is one interesting reference in here that touches on what has been discussed before: Water in equilibrium with the air contains 4.4X10^-5% by mass of carbon dioxide. The resulting carbonic acid H2CO3, gives to the solution a hydrogen ion concentration about 20 times larger than that of pure water, or 2.0X10^-6 as compared with 1.0X10^-7. thus the pH is: pH = -log[H+] = -log(1.34X10^-3) = -( log 2.0 + log 10^-3) = -(0.127 - 3.00) =2.873 Thus according to this reference if you let pur water sit in the air, it will absorb carbon dioxide and end up with an acid ph of slightly under 3! Marshall: No way can carbonic acid reduce the pH under 3!. Test the pH of soda water which is UNDER CO2 PRESSURE. Want to take bets on the pH you'll find? A pH under 3 probably wont give you stomach pains though because it would probably be completely consumed burning up your esophagus. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>H2O2 Test
In a message dated 6/16/00 4:32:58 PM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes: << I am not a chemist so I really don't know. But I would think that the authors of a chemistry book would know what they are talking about. See example 4 of the attached file. Marshall >> Marshall: Didn't your mamma tell you not to believe everything you read. If you really are interested I'll do the calculations. I thought I'd try to appeal to your practical side first. Please say don't bother, I'm getting too old to crank out this stuff anymore. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>H2O2 Test
In a message dated 6/16/00 4:42:59 PM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes: << Opps, you are right. I see I skipped from example 4 to example 5 in the book now that I can see it easily on the screen. My apologies. Marshall >> Ah, thank God SOMEONE was convinced of SOMETHING today. Hallaluya (really corrupted spelling here), Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>H2O2 Test
In a message dated 6/16/00 4:49:11 PM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes: << Interestingly this site lists the pH of soft drinks as being as low as 2! But it appears that most of it is from phosphoric acid, not CO2. http://www.paydirt.net/files/paydirt/indu/phvalue.stm Marshall >> Marshall: I've always been convinced that if you drink enough of that shi...stuff it'll kill ya. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>H2O2 Test
In a message dated 6/16/00 4:56:26 PM EST, an...@flosc.net writes: << Marshall & Roger The CS is "as made" and has no buffering at all - uses 0 PPM Steam Distilled Water and HVAC with a shielded plasma arc about .4 long Bill >> Bill: I'm cool with that. In order to have a buffered solution, the species that form either the solid or the undissociated molecule (and, for the sake of completeness, the dissociated complex ion) must be present in sufficient concentration to conform to the requirements of the respective 'solubility product' of the buffer in question. (what did he say?)When it comes to DW, it just ain't gonna happen. That;s why we use this stuff in the first place. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/17/00 1:42:05 AM EST, dtmil...@midiowa.net writes: << Just use CS! You may need a lot of it so the HV method would be your best choice, IMO (I'm still not entirely convinced that it doesn't produce byproducts that I'd care to imbibe -- sorry Roger :) Dean: I'll be happy to send you a sample so you can have it analyzed for byproducts. Please contact me off-list for details. You know it's easy (and extremely uinfair, I might add) to point the finger with accusations, but can anyone produce hard data with regard to HVAC CS containing byproducts? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Ag + H2O2
In a message dated 6/17/00 2:50:59 AM EST, i...@win.co.nz writes: << Hi folks, I originally thought that this reaction might be an indication of the metallic content (uncharged or slightly charged silver aggregates) of colloidal silver. This proved to be so in the tests I performed. Fred has attempted to refine the concept by quantifying the gas released, but unfortunately there is not a great deal of gas evolution, although there seems to be a gas phase which is plain to see. The silver - hydrogen peroxide catalytic effect really only occurs with high purity H2O2 (> 90%) being pumped through silver mesh. Ivan: This type of contact is hardly that which is occurring when (I believe 3%) H2O2 is added to freshly made CS. So how can anyone claim that (3%) peroxide can be used to identify metallic silver in CS? Also it's very confusing to me how the term catalyzed reaction is being used (probably not by you). I thought a catalyst is something that PROMOTES a reaction without TAKING PART in that reaction. The reaction below clearly show that silver is one of the reactants. On the other hand, is it not possible that silver DOES catalyze the reduction of (relatively unstable) H2O2? Your comments please. H2O2 will oxidise metallic silver Ag 2(Ag) + H2O2 + 2H+ + 2e > 2(Ag+ + e) + 2H2O E(cell) = 0.977 V log K = 33.06168 K = 1.15e33 deltaG= -188.53169 kJ/mol but will not oxidise the silver ion Ag+ in a neutral or acid solution. In a basic solution H2O2 will reduce Ag+ by way of the hydroxyl ion OH- surfiet. Ivan: How basic (pH?) does the solution have to be to get this reaction to the right? H2O2 + 2OH- + 2(Ag+ + e) > O2 + 2H2O + 2e + 2(Ag) E(cell) = 0.945 V log K = 31.9788 K = 9.52e31 deltaG = -182.35665 kJ/mol >> -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>I have quite a few 9 volt DC power supplies
In a message dated 6/17/00 5:49:23 AM EST, di...@iitek.net writes: << Can some one name a few URLs for the basics in making colloidal silver? o I have quite a few 9 volt DC power supplies and plan to use them instead of batteries. This is OK...Right??? o What is a good source of silver besides wire? o I have heard that Canadian Maple Leaf silver coins are very pure and good to use for an electrode. o I have a neon sign transformer, Some people are using HVAC it seems. This transformer would fill the bill? Thanks Dan >> Dan: Unless you have hands on experience with HVAC I would highly recommend using the low DC voltage approach. Doing a search here will provide you with more than you'll ever need to make a reasonable product. However, if you do have experience with HVAC, contact me off-list and I'll give you some specific info. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Colloids Ions Bio-availability was Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS we...
In a message dated 6/17/00 5:50:58 AM EST, i...@win.co.nz writes: << When the particles are sputtered by electric arc, not only are silver ions and metallic particles formed, but the atmosphere in which the arc is formed may also undergo chemical change, the products of which may go into solution or react with the silver particles forming silver compounds. (this is not a value judgement). >> Ivan: Please provide us with examples of silver compounds which a stable at sputtering temperatures. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Colloids Ions Bio-availability was Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS we...
In a message dated 6/17/00 8:02:32 AM EST, i...@win.co.nz writes: << Roger, I'm not sure there is much stable at the temp of silver vaporisation. However there is a point at the arc/plasma water interface where the temp is low enough to fix whatever species is found there, 150degC for silver oxide. Ivan. Ivan: Yes, but the temperature differential between the arc and the water surface is HUGE. Basically, the silver is quenched from high temp. So from my experience, practically no oxide will be produced. Roger - Original Message - From: To: >> -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Ag + H2O2
In a message dated 6/17/00 7:54:31 AM EST, i...@win.co.nz writes: << That is what I am saying Roger, this is not a catalytic reaction, but rather a relatively straight forward redox reaction. The catalytic reaction, as used in hydrogen peroxide rocket motors, induces a cascade reaction in the water producing heat and steam (theories on how this happens are not consistent). The silver does wear out in time. When I deliberately made a colloid that had a lot of sludge inclusion and was a deep gold colour, the introduction of H2O2 caused an immediate reaction in the form of many extremely small bubbles (made the sample look cloudy) and the colloid became clear. The ionic content was significantly higher after this reaction than before, as measured by Ion Selective Electrode. There was no such reaction with a light golden colloid which I know to be composed of a high proportion of ionic clusters (ISE ionic reading = AA total silver reading) and the concentration remained the essetially the same (slight increase). The plugging of the compounds into a couple of reaction predictors (the outputs of these are pasted into my post) confirms this evidence. Until the weight of evendence proves otherwise, this is my conclusion. Ivan: I don't inderstand the last two sentenses. Would you please elaborate. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/17/00 11:42:27 AM EST, a...@trail.com writes: << Re: your last question Roger. It is very hard to prove a negative. I have never seen a cite. James Osbourne Holmes a...@trail.com FTNWO James: Prove a negative? How about a positive: "Has anyone found ANYTHING but silver in ANY HVAC CS product? Is that positive enough for you? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/17/00 1:37:06 PM EST, f...@health2us.com writes: << Have you checked with your Agricultural agent what the copper fungicides are that they recommend? As so far as my mentions of nitrate or nitrite, I would ignore that in a field spray application, as there are far worse risks with copper fungicides then the trace amount you might get from the HVAC process. >> Fred: You are unbelievable! " ... far worse risks ... then the trace amount [of nitrate or nitrite] " You prove the old adage that if you repeat a lie often enough people will start to believe it. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>West Nile Flu
In a message dated 6/17/00 10:53:37 PM EST, bi...@qed.net writes: << Subj: CS>West Nile Flu Date: 6/17/00 10:53:37 PM EST From: bi...@qed.net (G&B Rogers) Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com To:silver-list@eskimo.com Hello listers, The mosquito borne West Nile virus that causes encephalitis has returned to my region of NY, with a few dead crows confirmed having the virus in an adjacent county, just 20 miles away. I was just wondering if anyone has suggestions for precautionary measures using CS (besides a daily 2oz dosage) - would putting drops of CS on mosquito bites work? I made my own concoction of aloe vera gel, CS, dissolved MSM and lavender oil, which I keep in the kitchen for burns that works rather nicely, but don't know if the CS has remained effective since I don't refrigerate it, and I don't know if mixing it with essential oils affects the properties of the colloid. Any suggestions or thoughts on natural ways of protecting me and my family from this virus, which killed 7 people in NYC last year, would be appreciated! We live on a small lake, and it tends to be mosquito metropolitan around here. Beth -- Commit Random Acts of Kindness >> Beth: I'm not qualified to answer your question, but I'm hoping you could provide more details with regard to your concoction and which specific regions in New York State besides NYC have been exposed. Thanks, Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/17/00 11:27:08 PM EST, a...@trail.com writes: << Isn't that sort of defined by the MCL you assign as "present", and the concentration of the substance in terms of its toxicity. James: I'd appreciate it if you would rephrase the above sentence please so I can respond to the best of my ability. But if I understand your meaning, the answer is yes. However, if the substance is below detectable limits using standard labs protocols, it's very unlikely to be of any practical concern don't you think. I think that is an excellent thing to do. I plan to do an 'AA' sweep of the stuff I am making, but I have got to find a chemist who has had experience with CS. James: Lyn Kimball (Kimball Labs, Draper Utah) has given me outstanding support over the last few years, at unbeatable prices I might add. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Ivan: I've got one more question
Ivan: You said in part: "When I deliberately made a colloid that had a lot of sludge inclusion and was a deep gold colour, the introduction of H2O2 caused an immediate reaction in the form of many extremely small bubbles (made the sample look cloudy) and the colloid became clear. The ionic content was significantly higher after this reaction than before, as measured by Ion Selective Electrode. There was no such reaction with a light golden colloid which I know to be composed of a high proportion of ionic clusters (ISE ionic reading = AA total silver reading) and the concentration remained the essetially the same (slight increase)" If you found "no such reaction with a light golden colloid which I know to be composed of a high proportion of ionic clusters ...", is it reasonable to conclude that the permanently clear HVAC CS has smaller particles then that of the "light golden colloid" (consensus view: clear sols have smaller particles on average than colored sols), BUT if bubbles of escaping oxygen are generated (from Fred's H2O2 test) then at least SOME of these particles are NOT ionic (using your definition of 'ionic')? Thanks for all your effort in trying to clear up our understanding of colloids (question: can colloids ever be really clear?) Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Colloids Ions Bio-availability was Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS we...
In a message dated 6/18/00 5:43:46 AM EST, i...@win.co.nz writes: << > Roger I would have thought that there is no sharp delineation in temperature, that the boundary between the water and the arc plasma, from a particle point of view, is the gradual transition from a high energy maelstrom where ions and so forth are continuously buffeted together dissolving and forming compounds with what ever else is there, the violence gradually lessening until a point is reached where there is not enough energy to boil the water let alone break the bonds of compounds formed earlier in the transition. Now Roger, I don't know whether there are other elements or not entering your water, but I do know that when arc dissolusion was DC in times past, the major problem of forming high percentages of metal oxide was somewhat ameliorated by using an AC arc, which limited the oxide formation to about 15%. You say that, in your experience practically no oxide will be produced. I would be interested to learn what experience that is, and if you have tested for the presence of silver oxide. Always interested. Ivan. >> Ivan: As a metallurgical engineer, specialized in high temperature smelting processes, I have some experience with silver at high temperature. In general, silver does not form an oxide easily (sulfides yes, oxides no). However, in an effort to leave no stone unturned to evaluate the purity of my HVAC CS, I will begin to prepare photomicrographs of evaporated CS and well as applying other techniques to see if there is evidence of silver compounds or anything else for that matter. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Ag + H2O2
In a message dated 6/18/00 8:47:14 AM EST, i...@win.co.nz writes: << The plugging of the compounds into a couple of reaction predictors (the outputs of these are pasted into my post) confirms this evidence. Until the weight of evendence [should be evidence] proves otherwise, this is my conclusion. >>Ivan: I don't inderstand the last two sentenses. Would you please elaborate. Roger, I have a couple of chemical reaction software programs into which I fed the reactants H2O2 and Ag etc. and which provide details of the reaction and products, if it should occur spontaneously. Ivan. >> Ivan: So, bottom line, you feel that the weight of the evidence indicates that H2O2 is a good predictor of the presence of non-ionic silver despite that fact that the concentration of H2O2, and the physical form of silver do not conform to the conditions required with regard to the silver oxidation you referenced yesterday? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>West Nile Flu -region and concoction
In a message dated 6/18/00 11:18:45 AM EST, bi...@qed.net writes: << Hi Roger and Erwin, I'm in the Hudson Valley region of NY, near West Point. There were confirmed crow deaths from West Nile in Rockland County, which is across the Hudson river from Westchester; last year there were confirmed animal/bird deaths (guess it also affects horses) in Rockland and I believe Dutchess Counties (Dutchess is the county north of Westchester and was home to IBM, and FDR's estate). We're in commuter range of NYC. As far as the concoction - it is approximately equal parts aloe vera gel to CS, with slightly more of the aloe so it wasn't so runny - 3oz of each. I dissolved MSM caps in the CS prior to mixing, then added about 1/2 oz lavender oil. I made this based on a description of a product sold by an essential oil vendor; the president of that company supposedly developed this spray with aloe and lavender oil, and some kind of special water, and then demonstrated the efficacy of the product by searing his arm with a soldering iron at a lecture and immediately spraying his product on. Why anyone would go to those lengths is beyond me, but my version which is not sprayable and is more like the consistency of a watery jello has worked on minor burns, scrapes and is a nice moisturizer. Beth >> Beth: Thanks very much. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
CS>Ion Selective Electrode
Ivan (or anyone else): Please explain the workings of the "Ion Selective Electrode". Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost
In a message dated 6/19/00 11:32:47 AM EST, f...@health2us.com writes: << Sorry touchy Roger, thought I was being conservative by saying "my mentions" and "trace amount" - I am not the only one in the world with unanswered questions about the logical possibility of nitrogen compounds formed in an air to water HV arc! I even went to two of Bruce Marx's sites, THE originator of the HVAC process, (he says so) to check his comments, but alas, he has weirder ideas then you! Even says LV Cs has a shelf life of only 2 days to 2 weeks - you might like him! Oh well, guess I asked for a slap! >> Fred: I also want to apologize. I think you caught me at a weak moment. Let's maintain a truce about nitrogen compounds (that is, neither of us will mention it again until I get back the nitrite analysis you asked for from my latest HVAC CS sample. BTW, that sample is from a 6 gallon ~11 PPM CS lot, so those results should reflect "my HVAC CS" for some time to come since I see no reason (except special cases like Lyme and similar tough bugs) to consume anything above 1 PPM of this product. Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
