Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book

[needling around]

I like everything about my cosmodic unit.  The other one is a good unit for 
a couple of specific purposes but I haven't gotten the same level of results 
from it for other purposes (could be the operator :-)).  I actually like 
small 'thin' devices since people can lay on them more easily (if they 
cannot lay face down as many people with back problems cannot do).


I don't know what the biomodulator will do as I haven't been able to obtain 
appropriate information on it as of this writing.  I am waiting for some 
literature and hopefully it will allow me to compare it to the scenar I have 
been considering.


I think waveform can be important.  Look how Dr. Thomas Wing advanced the 
use of microcurrent with his tsunami waveform.


Thanks for your thoughts.
PT


- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book


One advantage of the biomodulator is its small handheld size. I think
that is also its drawback. These devices work by delivering currents to
the needed locations. By having fixed electrodes with little separation
between them you will get little penetration of electrical currents into
the body. I prefer electrodes that can be located to send electrical
current to where you need it most.
I place less emphasis on 'special' waveforms. A study of various
waveform patterns showed little difference in performance between the
waveform patterns. In fact some generators use randomly generated pulses
to great effect. Waveform shape has some impact on performance and can
make a great difference in comfort.

What is it you don't like about your scenar units? What do you think the
biomodulator will do that the scenar doesn't?

Thanks,
 Steve


-Original Message-
From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:43 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book

Thanks.  You seemed to have an opinion.  I already have 2 scenar units
and
was looking at the biomodulator as a possible addition.  You don't seem
too
impressed with it and I am wondering what you do like as just a wider
field
to research before making a major investment.
PT


- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book


I try and make a point of not recommending a specific CS supplier and in
this case a specific pain reducer. I don't want to appear to have a bias
and they are only my opinion. What I would look for in a device might
not be what you need. There were several different suppliers mentioned
in a previous discussion on this within the last couple of months. Ode
had a concept for one that might be very useable and lower cost but I
don't know if he is pursuing it. (It would also make CS). Your question
would be better answered by some of the silver-listers that have tried
the different pain reducers.

- Steve N

-Original Message-
From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 6:22 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book

Hi Steve,
Would you mind sharing the names of devices that you feel are as good or

better than the biomodulator?  I am in the market and would be
interested in
your opinion.
Thank you.
PT

- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book


I have not said that Dr Tennant's device does not work. I am sure that
it does. At least to some extent. His device is based on well known
technology that studies have proven to provide pain relief and healing.
However there are other devices on the market that are as good as or
better than Dr Tennant's device. What I have taken issue with is his
claims for how and why his device works. Actually, my original intent
was to explain that you cannot measure cell voltage with a voltmeter.
That then led to explaining that the -20 mV to -25 mV referred to by Dr
Tennant is an artificial value used by digital pH meters and absolutely
meaningless relative to the actual voltage of a cell. First a couple of
quotes from Tennant's web site.

http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Dr._Tennants_Story.html
Each cellular biology book gave passing notice to the fact that cells
require a narrow range of pH, but little more was discussed on the
subject. He began to look at pH and discovered that it is a measurement
of the voltage in a solution. It is measured with a sophisticated
voltmeter. If the solution is an electron donor, a minus sign is placed
in front of the voltage. If the solution is an electron stealer, a plus
sign is placed in front

Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book

[Norton, Steve]

I may be a little tough on Dr Tennant. His device may even be an
excellent device. My big issue is with the information he provides. As
an example, there are colloidal silver sites that have a perfectly fine
CS but the make wild claims for their CS. It become3s a chore separating
fact from fiction and if they misrepresent some items how can you trust
anything else they say? 
You make an excellent point on why compact units are very useful for
you. That goes to my point that the unit I might prefer may not be a
good choice for someone else.
Relative to waveform, I am only repeating the results of a study.
However the tsunami waveform is for a single pulse. The patented
waveforms Tennant and others have are for the pattern of a series of
pulses. I think those 'unique' patterns are primarily for the purpose of
claiming a patented uniqueness and not because they provide a
significant difference. 
Regards,
  Steve N


-Original Message-
From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:52 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book

I like everything about my cosmodic unit.  The other one is a good unit
for 
a couple of specific purposes but I haven't gotten the same level of
results 
from it for other purposes (could be the operator :-)).  I actually like

small 'thin' devices since people can lay on them more easily (if they 
cannot lay face down as many people with back problems cannot do).

I don't know what the biomodulator will do as I haven't been able to
obtain 
appropriate information on it as of this writing.  I am waiting for some

literature and hopefully it will allow me to compare it to the scenar I
have 
been considering.

I think waveform can be important.  Look how Dr. Thomas Wing advanced
the 
use of microcurrent with his tsunami waveform.

Thanks for your thoughts.
PT


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Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book

[needling around]

I can only comment that Dr. Wing's work took microcurrent usage into the 
mainstream as he was able to get results that no one else did.  One of his 
students today is using his protocols to do things that are unheard of.  I 
would offer that you watch any of the clinical videos on youtube for Millie 
Ng.  I think the crush injury and the hallucis vulgus repair are most 
amazing.

PT


- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book


I may be a little tough on Dr Tennant. His device may even be an
excellent device. My big issue is with the information he provides. As
an example, there are colloidal silver sites that have a perfectly fine
CS but the make wild claims for their CS. It become3s a chore separating
fact from fiction and if they misrepresent some items how can you trust
anything else they say?
You make an excellent point on why compact units are very useful for
you. That goes to my point that the unit I might prefer may not be a
good choice for someone else.
Relative to waveform, I am only repeating the results of a study.
However the tsunami waveform is for a single pulse. The patented
waveforms Tennant and others have are for the pattern of a series of
pulses. I think those 'unique' patterns are primarily for the purpose of
claiming a patented uniqueness and not because they provide a
significant difference.
Regards,
 Steve N


-Original Message-
From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:52 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book

I like everything about my cosmodic unit.  The other one is a good unit
for
a couple of specific purposes but I haven't gotten the same level of
results
from it for other purposes (could be the operator :-)).  I actually like

small 'thin' devices since people can lay on them more easily (if they
cannot lay face down as many people with back problems cannot do).

I don't know what the biomodulator will do as I haven't been able to
obtain
appropriate information on it as of this writing.  I am waiting for some

literature and hopefully it will allow me to compare it to the scenar I
have
been considering.

I think waveform can be important.  Look how Dr. Thomas Wing advanced
the
use of microcurrent with his tsunami waveform.

Thanks for your thoughts.
PT


--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
 Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

Unsubscribe:
 mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe
Archives:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html

Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com
List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSvoltage meter

[Ode Coyote]

cells need voltage
  A misleading misnomer.

Cells need electrochemical ion exchange  eg chemical reactions in order 
to not starve or asphyxiate when doing things

Even communications between cells are carried out by these exchanges.

 Any chemical reaction can be described as electronic in nature.
 Any difference in potential [voltage] can be defined as a pending 
chemical reaction.


You might even say that a reaction that's taking place now, is a current 
event.


 A battery is a cell.
If you cannot detect a voltage it may be dead, but it needs current to stay 
charged.

 You can't charge a battery with voltagesomething has to happen
 A GOOD battery will maintain a voltage [potential] forever with no input 
of current, so long as there's also no output of current.


But if you don't use it, it may as well be dead.
No current, no events..all potential getting dusty in a closet doing nothing.

You can have full voltage and very low capacity in a battery as 
well..little current availabletired easily when used.
But checking voltage won't tell you about capacity..ya gotta load the cell 
with current draw [make it do some work ] to see how fast it gets tired.
And if you let it rest a while, the voltage goes right back up..unless it's 
about dead.


Now..stick that voltmeter on a dead chicken and see if you get something.
I think you will, but that doesn't mean that chicken will ever lay another 
egg nearly as big as this idea that cells need voltage

It's next current event is charging YOU.
THAT is its' potential, now.

Ode



At 10:39 AM 9/26/2010 -0600, you wrote:

Hello Love,

Although I understand some of the basics, there are wide gaps in my 
comprehension. For example, cells need voltage.  But the voltage can, in 
the body, come only from the chemical biology of the cells themselves, and 
must be regulated by cells.  I don't know anything about Norton.  I am 
sending this for review and consideration by more qualified people, not as 
a put-down of Tennant. His procedures may work, even if his theory is not 
correct.


I sure would like to get a hug.

Jim

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Norton, Steve 
mailto:stephen.nor...@ngc.comstephen.nor...@ngc.com wrote:
Dr. Tennant doesn't explain his claim that all cells in the body need 
between -20 mV and -25 mV. Without an explanation his claim is pretty much 
worthless. But let me make a guess. The optimal blood pH is somewhere 
between 7.35 and 7.45. If blood pH moves below 6.8 or above 7.8, cells 
stop functioning and the body dies.



A pH meter measures Ph as follows 
(http://www.omega.com/techref/ph-3.htmlhttp://www.omega.com/techref/ph-3.html):


pH electrodes are constructed from a special composition glass which 
senses the hydrogen ion concentration. This glass is typically composed of 
alkali metal ions. The alkali metal ions of the glass and the hydrogen 
ions in solution undergo an ion exchange reaction, generating a potential 
difference. In a combination pH electrode, the most widely used variety, 
there are actually two electrodes in one body. One portion is called the 
measuring electrode, the other the reference electrode. The potential 
generated at the junction site of the measuring portion is due to the free 
hydrogen ions present in solution.
The potential of the reference portion is produced by the internal element 
in contact with the reference fill solution. This potential is always 
constant. In summary, the measuring electrode delivers a varying voltage 
and the reference electrode delivers a constant voltage to the meter.
pH electrodes are like batteries; they run down with time and use. As an 
electrode ages, its glass changes resistance. This resistance change 
alters the electrode potential. For this reason, electrodes need to be 
calibrated on a regular basis. Calibration in pH buffer solution corrects 
for this change. Calibration of any pH equipment should always begin with 
buffer 7.0 as this is the zero point. The pH scale has an equivalent mV 
scale. The mV scale ranges from +420 to -420 mV. At a pH of 7.0 the mV 
value is 0. Each pH change corresponds to a change of ±60 mV. As pH values 
become more acidic the mV values become greater. For example, a pH of 4.0 
corresponds to a value of 180 mV. As pH values become more basic the mV 
values become more negative; pH=9 corresponds to -120 mV.



Therefore a pH meter reading between -20 mV and -25 mV would correspond to 
a pH of 7.33 to 7.41. A fairly startling coincidence I would say. I think 
that this is where Dr. Tennant gets his claim. But his claim is total 
nonsense in the context he uses it.


The pH meter uses a specially designed probe which basically creates a 
battery that uses free hydrogen ions as the electrolyte. The voltage 
measured is directly related to the amount of free hydrogen ions in the 
electrolyte. You cannot use a voltmeter to measure the pH of the skin, a 
liquid on the skin or a cell. Tennant's claim of doing so is rubbish.


Dr. 

Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book

[Norton, Steve]

. In other types of cells, their main function is to
activate intracellular processes. In muscle cells, for example, an
action potential is the first step in the chain of events leading to
contraction.[citation needed] In beta cells of the pancreas, they
provoke release of insulin.[1] Action potentials in neurons are also
known as nerve impulses or spikes, and the temporal sequence of
action potentials generated by a neuron is called its spike train. A
neuron that emits an action potential is often said to fire.
All cells in animal body tissues are electrically polarized-in other
words, they maintain a voltage difference across the cell's plasma
membrane, known as the membrane potential. This electrical polarization
results from a complex interplay between protein structures embedded in
the membrane called ion pumps and ion channels. In neurons, the types of
ion channels in the membrane usually vary across different parts of the
cell, giving the dendrites, axon, and cell body different electrical
properties. As a result, some parts of the membrane of a neuron may be
excitable (capable of generating action potentials) while others are
not. The most excitable part of a neuron is usually the axon hillock
(the point where the axon leaves the cell body), but the axon and cell
body are also excitable in most cases.
...
Each excitable patch of membrane has two important levels of membrane
potential: the resting potential, which is the value the membrane
potential maintains as long as nothing perturbs the cell, and a higher
value called the threshold potential. At the axon hillock of a typical
neuron, the resting potential is around -70 millivolts (mV) and the
threshold potential is around -55 mV. Synaptic inputs to a neuron cause
the membrane to depolarize or hyperpolarize; that is, they cause the
membrane potential to rise or fall. Action potentials are triggered when
enough depolarization accumulates to bring the membrane potential up to
threshold. When an action potential is triggered, the membrane potential
abruptly shoots upward, often reaching as high as +100 mV, then equally
abruptly shoots back downward, often ending below the resting level,
where it remains for some period of time. The shape of the action
potential is stereotyped; that is, the rise and fall usually have
approximately the same amplitude and time course for all action
potentials in a given cell.


As you can see, the voltages discussed by Dr Tennant have nothing at all
to do with actual cell voltages. And I don't even want to touch his
frequencies and essential oil assertions.

 - Steve N



From: Nenah Sylver [mailto:nenahsyl...@cox.net] 
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 10:26 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book

As Dr. Tennant outlines in his book, the amount of cellular voltage that
corresponds to various states of the cells and tissues-degeneration,
severe degeneration, inflammation, severe inflammation, and normal-has a
distinct correlation with biological and physiological processes. This
includes pH. These voltages aren't made up by Tennant. They are
parameters of voltage, measurements of voltage under various conditions
that were established in the 1940s in Germany by Reinhold Voll, whose
work was later expanded on by many others. Dr. Tennant has simply laid
it out in an easily accessible manner in his book.

The Tennant Biomodulator, which I own, is a biofeedback device that
restores voltage to the tissues. The frequency and wave shape it emits
depends on (1) the signals it receives from the skin as the subject is
being treated, (2) the amplitude of the wave (volume as set by the
user), and (3) the setting on the device (there are several treatment
and assess settings). 

The electromagnetic (EM) emanations from cells always precede chemical
processes. Yes, there is a correlation between the two-when the EM
signature changes, it affects the biochemistry; and when the
biochemistry changes, that affects the EM signature. However, the EM
signature changes FIRST. Often, changes in the EM signature can be
detected before changes in the biochemistry can be detected. This is
especially true of degenerative conditions. In the case of sudden,
contagious pathogen infection or especially in the case of instantaneous
injuries (such as accidents), there isn't enough time between the EM
signature change and the biochemical change. However, these are
exceptions rather than the rule.

There's an article I wrote on electromedicine that's freely available on
my website:
http://www.nenahsylver.com/electromedicine_healing_with_electromedicine.
html 
I know that people tend to discount stuff that's free, and from someone
they know-but this article has been considered so important, it was
first published in Townsend Letter, then in Nexus, and it's now being
translated into German and Korean. Perhaps some of you will read it. I
wrote it to help people understand electromedicine.

I bought a Biomodulator

Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book

[needling around]

Hi Steve,
Would you mind sharing the names of devices that you feel are as good or 
better than the biomodulator?  I am in the market and would be interested in 
your opinion.

Thank you.
PT

- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book


I have not said that Dr Tennant's device does not work. I am sure that
it does. At least to some extent. His device is based on well known
technology that studies have proven to provide pain relief and healing.
However there are other devices on the market that are as good as or
better than Dr Tennant's device. What I have taken issue with is his
claims for how and why his device works. Actually, my original intent
was to explain that you cannot measure cell voltage with a voltmeter.
That then led to explaining that the -20 mV to -25 mV referred to by Dr
Tennant is an artificial value used by digital pH meters and absolutely
meaningless relative to the actual voltage of a cell. First a couple of
quotes from Tennant's web site.

http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Dr._Tennants_Story.html
Each cellular biology book gave passing notice to the fact that cells
require a narrow range of pH, but little more was discussed on the
subject. He began to look at pH and discovered that it is a measurement
of the voltage in a solution. It is measured with a sophisticated
voltmeter. If the solution is an electron donor, a minus sign is placed
in front of the voltage. If the solution is an electron stealer, a plus
sign is placed in front of the voltage. The measured voltage is then
converted to a logarithmic scale from 0-14 with zero corresponding to
+400 millivolts of electron stealer to -400 millivolts corresponding to
a pH of 14. Cell are designed to run at about -20 millivolts (pH 7.35).
Dr. Tennant began to understand that cells must have enough voltage to
work and that chronic disease was associated with loss of voltage. Next
he had to find out how to measure the voltage and then how to correct
it.

Ok, so Tennant is referring to the voltage of a pH meter.


http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Energetic_Medicine.html
One can tap into either wiring system to measure the voltage in the
organs.  It is difficult to use a voltmeter to measure the organ voltage
because voltage surges about every six seconds.  Thus we commonly use an
ohmmeter to measure and then convert that to voltage.  There are several
devices designed to accurately and reproducibly measure organ voltage
like the Nakatani (MEAD) system, the Voll systems, and the Tennant
Biomodulator.  By placing one of these devices onto a wire known to go
to each organ, one can know the voltage in that organ.
Cells in the adult human are designed to run at -20 to -25 millivolts
and to heal at -50 millivolts.  The minus sign means that the voltage is
an electron donor.  If the voltage drops to the point the solution is an
electron stealer, we put a plus sign in front of the voltage.  Cancer
occurs at +30 millivolts.


If you do a search on the Nakatani (MEAD) system and the Voll systems
you will find that neither measures organ voltages much less cell
voltages. Apparently the Tennant Biomodulator uses an ohmmeter for
measurement and then converts the ohm reading to a voltage.
Theoretically a voltage could look like a resistance if it has the
opposite polarity of the voltage used by the ohmmeter and a magnitude
less than the voltage used by the ohmmeter. However this method as used
would be fraught with potential errors. And even if you got a
measurement, it would not be the voltage of a cell.

What is the voltage of a cell? Not -20 to -25 millivolts. Not -50
millivolts. But -70 millivolts for a resting cell. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resting_potential
The resting voltage is the result of several ion-translocating enzymes
(uniporters, cotransporters, and pumps) in the plasma membrane, steadily
operating in parallel, whereby each ion-translocator has its
characteristic electromotive force (= reversal potential = 'equilibrium
voltage'), depending on the particular substrate concentrations inside
and outside (internal ATP included in case of some pumps). H+ exporting
ATPase render the membrane voltage in plants and fungi much more
negative than in the more extensively investigated animal cells, where
the resting voltage is mainly determined by selective ion channels.

In most neurons the resting potential has a value of approximately -70
mV. The resting potential is mostly determined by the concentrations of
the ions in the fluids on both sides of the cell membrane and the ion
transport proteins that are in the cell membrane. How the concentrations
of ions and the membrane transport proteins influence the value of the
resting potential is outlined below.




There is also a voltage associated with what are called excitable cells.
Excitable cells include neurons

Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book

[Norton, Steve]

I try and make a point of not recommending a specific CS supplier and in
this case a specific pain reducer. I don't want to appear to have a bias
and they are only my opinion. What I would look for in a device might
not be what you need. There were several different suppliers mentioned
in a previous discussion on this within the last couple of months. Ode
had a concept for one that might be very useable and lower cost but I
don't know if he is pursuing it. (It would also make CS). Your question
would be better answered by some of the silver-listers that have tried
the different pain reducers.

 - Steve N

-Original Message-
From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] 
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 6:22 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book

Hi Steve,
Would you mind sharing the names of devices that you feel are as good or

better than the biomodulator?  I am in the market and would be
interested in 
your opinion.
Thank you.
PT

- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book


I have not said that Dr Tennant's device does not work. I am sure that
it does. At least to some extent. His device is based on well known
technology that studies have proven to provide pain relief and healing.
However there are other devices on the market that are as good as or
better than Dr Tennant's device. What I have taken issue with is his
claims for how and why his device works. Actually, my original intent
was to explain that you cannot measure cell voltage with a voltmeter.
That then led to explaining that the -20 mV to -25 mV referred to by Dr
Tennant is an artificial value used by digital pH meters and absolutely
meaningless relative to the actual voltage of a cell. First a couple of
quotes from Tennant's web site.

http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Dr._Tennants_Story.html
Each cellular biology book gave passing notice to the fact that cells
require a narrow range of pH, but little more was discussed on the
subject. He began to look at pH and discovered that it is a measurement
of the voltage in a solution. It is measured with a sophisticated
voltmeter. If the solution is an electron donor, a minus sign is placed
in front of the voltage. If the solution is an electron stealer, a plus
sign is placed in front of the voltage. The measured voltage is then
converted to a logarithmic scale from 0-14 with zero corresponding to
+400 millivolts of electron stealer to -400 millivolts corresponding to
a pH of 14. Cell are designed to run at about -20 millivolts (pH 7.35).
Dr. Tennant began to understand that cells must have enough voltage to
work and that chronic disease was associated with loss of voltage. Next
he had to find out how to measure the voltage and then how to correct
it.

Ok, so Tennant is referring to the voltage of a pH meter.


http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Energetic_Medicine.html
One can tap into either wiring system to measure the voltage in the
organs.  It is difficult to use a voltmeter to measure the organ voltage
because voltage surges about every six seconds.  Thus we commonly use an
ohmmeter to measure and then convert that to voltage.  There are several
devices designed to accurately and reproducibly measure organ voltage
like the Nakatani (MEAD) system, the Voll systems, and the Tennant
Biomodulator.  By placing one of these devices onto a wire known to go
to each organ, one can know the voltage in that organ.
Cells in the adult human are designed to run at -20 to -25 millivolts
and to heal at -50 millivolts.  The minus sign means that the voltage is
an electron donor.  If the voltage drops to the point the solution is an
electron stealer, we put a plus sign in front of the voltage.  Cancer
occurs at +30 millivolts.


If you do a search on the Nakatani (MEAD) system and the Voll systems
you will find that neither measures organ voltages much less cell
voltages. Apparently the Tennant Biomodulator uses an ohmmeter for
measurement and then converts the ohm reading to a voltage.
Theoretically a voltage could look like a resistance if it has the
opposite polarity of the voltage used by the ohmmeter and a magnitude
less than the voltage used by the ohmmeter. However this method as used
would be fraught with potential errors. And even if you got a
measurement, it would not be the voltage of a cell.

What is the voltage of a cell? Not -20 to -25 millivolts. Not -50
millivolts. But -70 millivolts for a resting cell. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resting_potential
The resting voltage is the result of several ion-translocating enzymes
(uniporters, cotransporters, and pumps) in the plasma membrane, steadily
operating in parallel, whereby each ion-translocator has its
characteristic electromotive force (= reversal potential = 'equilibrium
voltage'), depending

Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book

[needling around]

Thanks.  You seemed to have an opinion.  I already have 2 scenar units and 
was looking at the biomodulator as a possible addition.  You don't seem too 
impressed with it and I am wondering what you do like as just a wider field 
to research before making a major investment.

PT


- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book


I try and make a point of not recommending a specific CS supplier and in
this case a specific pain reducer. I don't want to appear to have a bias
and they are only my opinion. What I would look for in a device might
not be what you need. There were several different suppliers mentioned
in a previous discussion on this within the last couple of months. Ode
had a concept for one that might be very useable and lower cost but I
don't know if he is pursuing it. (It would also make CS). Your question
would be better answered by some of the silver-listers that have tried
the different pain reducers.

- Steve N

-Original Message-
From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 6:22 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book

Hi Steve,
Would you mind sharing the names of devices that you feel are as good or

better than the biomodulator?  I am in the market and would be
interested in
your opinion.
Thank you.
PT

- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book


I have not said that Dr Tennant's device does not work. I am sure that
it does. At least to some extent. His device is based on well known
technology that studies have proven to provide pain relief and healing.
However there are other devices on the market that are as good as or
better than Dr Tennant's device. What I have taken issue with is his
claims for how and why his device works. Actually, my original intent
was to explain that you cannot measure cell voltage with a voltmeter.
That then led to explaining that the -20 mV to -25 mV referred to by Dr
Tennant is an artificial value used by digital pH meters and absolutely
meaningless relative to the actual voltage of a cell. First a couple of
quotes from Tennant's web site.

http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Dr._Tennants_Story.html
Each cellular biology book gave passing notice to the fact that cells
require a narrow range of pH, but little more was discussed on the
subject. He began to look at pH and discovered that it is a measurement
of the voltage in a solution. It is measured with a sophisticated
voltmeter. If the solution is an electron donor, a minus sign is placed
in front of the voltage. If the solution is an electron stealer, a plus
sign is placed in front of the voltage. The measured voltage is then
converted to a logarithmic scale from 0-14 with zero corresponding to
+400 millivolts of electron stealer to -400 millivolts corresponding to
a pH of 14. Cell are designed to run at about -20 millivolts (pH 7.35).
Dr. Tennant began to understand that cells must have enough voltage to
work and that chronic disease was associated with loss of voltage. Next
he had to find out how to measure the voltage and then how to correct
it.

Ok, so Tennant is referring to the voltage of a pH meter.


http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Energetic_Medicine.html
One can tap into either wiring system to measure the voltage in the
organs.  It is difficult to use a voltmeter to measure the organ voltage
because voltage surges about every six seconds.  Thus we commonly use an
ohmmeter to measure and then convert that to voltage.  There are several
devices designed to accurately and reproducibly measure organ voltage
like the Nakatani (MEAD) system, the Voll systems, and the Tennant
Biomodulator.  By placing one of these devices onto a wire known to go
to each organ, one can know the voltage in that organ.
Cells in the adult human are designed to run at -20 to -25 millivolts
and to heal at -50 millivolts.  The minus sign means that the voltage is
an electron donor.  If the voltage drops to the point the solution is an
electron stealer, we put a plus sign in front of the voltage.  Cancer
occurs at +30 millivolts.


If you do a search on the Nakatani (MEAD) system and the Voll systems
you will find that neither measures organ voltages much less cell
voltages. Apparently the Tennant Biomodulator uses an ohmmeter for
measurement and then converts the ohm reading to a voltage.
Theoretically a voltage could look like a resistance if it has the
opposite polarity of the voltage used by the ohmmeter and a magnitude
less than the voltage used by the ohmmeter. However this method as used
would be fraught with potential errors. And even if you got a
measurement, it would not be the voltage

Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book

[Norton, Steve]

One advantage of the biomodulator is its small handheld size. I think
that is also its drawback. These devices work by delivering currents to
the needed locations. By having fixed electrodes with little separation
between them you will get little penetration of electrical currents into
the body. I prefer electrodes that can be located to send electrical
current to where you need it most. 
I place less emphasis on 'special' waveforms. A study of various
waveform patterns showed little difference in performance between the
waveform patterns. In fact some generators use randomly generated pulses
to great effect. Waveform shape has some impact on performance and can
make a great difference in comfort.

What is it you don't like about your scenar units? What do you think the
biomodulator will do that the scenar doesn't?

Thanks,
  Steve


-Original Message-
From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net] 
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:43 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book

Thanks.  You seemed to have an opinion.  I already have 2 scenar units
and 
was looking at the biomodulator as a possible addition.  You don't seem
too 
impressed with it and I am wondering what you do like as just a wider
field 
to research before making a major investment.
PT


- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book


I try and make a point of not recommending a specific CS supplier and in
this case a specific pain reducer. I don't want to appear to have a bias
and they are only my opinion. What I would look for in a device might
not be what you need. There were several different suppliers mentioned
in a previous discussion on this within the last couple of months. Ode
had a concept for one that might be very useable and lower cost but I
don't know if he is pursuing it. (It would also make CS). Your question
would be better answered by some of the silver-listers that have tried
the different pain reducers.

 - Steve N

-Original Message-
From: needling around [mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 6:22 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book

Hi Steve,
Would you mind sharing the names of devices that you feel are as good or

better than the biomodulator?  I am in the market and would be
interested in
your opinion.
Thank you.
PT

- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE  Dr. Tennant's book


I have not said that Dr Tennant's device does not work. I am sure that
it does. At least to some extent. His device is based on well known
technology that studies have proven to provide pain relief and healing.
However there are other devices on the market that are as good as or
better than Dr Tennant's device. What I have taken issue with is his
claims for how and why his device works. Actually, my original intent
was to explain that you cannot measure cell voltage with a voltmeter.
That then led to explaining that the -20 mV to -25 mV referred to by Dr
Tennant is an artificial value used by digital pH meters and absolutely
meaningless relative to the actual voltage of a cell. First a couple of
quotes from Tennant's web site.

http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Dr._Tennants_Story.html
Each cellular biology book gave passing notice to the fact that cells
require a narrow range of pH, but little more was discussed on the
subject. He began to look at pH and discovered that it is a measurement
of the voltage in a solution. It is measured with a sophisticated
voltmeter. If the solution is an electron donor, a minus sign is placed
in front of the voltage. If the solution is an electron stealer, a plus
sign is placed in front of the voltage. The measured voltage is then
converted to a logarithmic scale from 0-14 with zero corresponding to
+400 millivolts of electron stealer to -400 millivolts corresponding to
a pH of 14. Cell are designed to run at about -20 millivolts (pH 7.35).
Dr. Tennant began to understand that cells must have enough voltage to
work and that chronic disease was associated with loss of voltage. Next
he had to find out how to measure the voltage and then how to correct
it.

Ok, so Tennant is referring to the voltage of a pH meter.


http://www.tennantinstitute.com/TIIM_MAC/Energetic_Medicine.html
One can tap into either wiring system to measure the voltage in the
organs.  It is difficult to use a voltmeter to measure the organ voltage
because voltage surges about every six seconds.  Thus we commonly use an
ohmmeter to measure and then convert that to voltage.  There are several
devices designed to accurately and reproducibly measure organ voltage
like the Nakatani

Re: CSvoltage meter

[Jim Holmes]

Hello Love,

Although I understand some of the basics, there are wide gaps in my
comprehension. For example, cells need voltage.  But the voltage can, in
the body, come only from the chemical biology of the cells themselves, and
must be regulated by cells.  I don't know anything about Norton.  I am
sending this for review and consideration by more qualified people, not as a
put-down of Tennant. His procedures may work, even if his theory is not
correct.

I sure would like to get a hug.

Jim

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.comwrote:

 Dr. Tennant doesn't explain his claim that all cells in the body need
 between -20 mV and -25 mV. Without an explanation his claim is pretty much
 worthless. But let me make a guess. The optimal blood pH is somewhere
 between 7.35 and 7.45. If blood pH moves below 6.8 or above 7.8, cells stop
 functioning and the body dies.


 A pH meter measures Ph as follows (http://www.omega.com/techref/ph-3.html
 ):

 pH electrodes are constructed from a special composition glass which
 senses the hydrogen ion concentration. This glass is typically composed of
 alkali metal ions. The alkali metal ions of the glass and the hydrogen ions
 in solution undergo an ion exchange reaction, generating a potential
 difference. In a combination pH electrode, the most widely used variety,
 there are actually two electrodes in one body. One portion is called the
 measuring electrode, the other the reference electrode. The potential
 generated at the junction site of the measuring portion is due to the free
 hydrogen ions present in solution.
 The potential of the reference portion is produced by the internal element
 in contact with the reference fill solution. This potential is always
 constant. In summary, the measuring electrode delivers a varying voltage and
 the reference electrode delivers a constant voltage to the meter.
 pH electrodes are like batteries; they run down with time and use. As an
 electrode ages, its glass changes resistance. This resistance change alters
 the electrode potential. For this reason, electrodes need to be calibrated
 on a regular basis. Calibration in pH buffer solution corrects for this
 change. Calibration of any pH equipment should always begin with buffer 7.0
 as this is the zero point. The pH scale has an equivalent mV scale. The mV
 scale ranges from +420 to -420 mV. At a pH of 7.0 the mV value is 0. Each pH
 change corresponds to a change of ±60 mV. As pH values become more acidic
 the mV values become greater. For example, a pH of 4.0 corresponds to a
 value of 180 mV. As pH values become more basic the mV values become more
 negative; pH=9 corresponds to -120 mV.


 Therefore a pH meter reading between -20 mV and -25 mV would correspond to
 a pH of 7.33 to 7.41. A fairly startling coincidence I would say. I think
 that this is where Dr. Tennant gets his claim. But his claim is total
 nonsense in the context he uses it.

 The pH meter uses a specially designed probe which basically creates a
 battery that uses free hydrogen ions as the electrolyte. The voltage
 measured is directly related to the amount of free hydrogen ions in the
 electrolyte. You cannot use a voltmeter to measure the pH of the skin, a
 liquid on the skin or a cell. Tennant's claim of doing so is rubbish.

 Dr. Tennant uses this supposed effect to explain what his device does but
 it is all show and false science. And there is no way that his device can
 alter the body or a cell's pH. His device appears to be similar to a number
 of other devices that are used to reduce pain. Dr. Tennant has several
 patents but they are what I believe are called application patents. They
 only patent certain pulse configurations that Tennant's device uses and not
 the underlying methodology. The other makers of pain reduction devices also
 have their 'unique' application patents but the underlying methodology is
 the same for all of them.

 - Steve N


 --
 The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

 Unsubscribe:
   mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectunsubscribe
 Archives:
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 List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book

[Nenah Sylver]

As Dr. Tennant outlines in his book, the amount of cellular voltage that
corresponds to various states of the cells and tissues-degeneration, severe
degeneration, inflammation, severe inflammation, and normal-has a distinct
correlation with biological and physiological processes. This includes pH.
These voltages aren't made up by Tennant. They are parameters of voltage,
measurements of voltage under various conditions that were established in
the 1940s in Germany by Reinhold Voll, whose work was later expanded on by
many others. Dr. Tennant has simply laid it out in an easily accessible
manner in his book.

 

The Tennant Biomodulator, which I own, is a biofeedback device that restores
voltage to the tissues. The frequency and wave shape it emits depends on (1)
the signals it receives from the skin as the subject is being treated, (2)
the amplitude of the wave (volume as set by the user), and (3) the setting
on the device (there are several treatment and assess settings). 

 

The electromagnetic (EM) emanations from cells always precede chemical
processes. Yes, there is a correlation between the two-when the EM signature
changes, it affects the biochemistry; and when the biochemistry changes,
that affects the EM signature. However, the EM signature changes FIRST.
Often, changes in the EM signature can be detected before changes in the
biochemistry can be detected. This is especially true of degenerative
conditions. In the case of sudden, contagious pathogen infection or
especially in the case of instantaneous injuries (such as accidents), there
isn't enough time between the EM signature change and the biochemical
change. However, these are exceptions rather than the rule.

 

There's an article I wrote on electromedicine that's freely available on my
website:
http://www.nenahsylver.com/electromedicine_healing_with_electromedicine.html


I know that people tend to discount stuff that's free, and from someone they
know-but this article has been considered so important, it was first
published in Townsend Letter, then in Nexus, and it's now being translated
into German and Korean. Perhaps some of you will read it. I wrote it to help
people understand electromedicine.

 

I bought a Biomodulator to help with chronic pain from whiplash I sustained
in an auto accident many years ago. The decrease in pain was not merely
palliative; there has been actual healing involved. (Read the article to
find out why.) 

 

I have not only greatly benefitted from it myself, but have personally
witnessed great improvements in others. One young woman had been injured as
a child in a car accident. Her femur jutted out of her leg at a 90 degree
angle. Doctors wanted to amputate but her parents wouldn't let them, so they
repositioned the bone and sent the girl home. For 12 years, she had no
sensation in her knee and surrounding tissues. After three 1-1/2 hour
sessions, sensation was restored.

 

If anyone would like more information on the Biomodulator, please email me
off-list. 

 

Best,

Nenah

 

Nenah Sylver, PhD

electromedicine specialist and author

The Rife Handbook of Frequency Therapy (2009)

 The Holistic Handbook of Sauna Therapy (2004)

 http://www.nenahsylver.com www.nenahsylver.com 

  _  

[Jim] Although I understand some of the basics, there are wide gaps in my
comprehension. For example, cells need voltage.  But the voltage can, in
the body, come only from the chemical biology of the cells themselves, and
must be regulated by cells.  

 

[Steve] Dr. Tennant doesn't explain his claim that all cells in the body
need between -20 mV and -25 mV. Without an explanation his claim is pretty
much worthless. But let me make a guess. The optimal blood pH is somewhere
between 7.35 and 7.45. If blood pH moves below 6.8 or above 7.8, cells stop
functioning and the body dies.

Re: CSvoltage meter/ CELL VOLTAGE Dr. Tennant's book

[Don Barnes]

Jerry Tannant spoke on Coast 7-21-10

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2010/07/21
-- Dr. Jerry Tennant www.tennantinstitute.com  972-580-1156 and Dr Mark
Starr
-- If your bioterminals average out at -10 mv you are a thyroid patient
until proven ow.
-- At normal body voltage save kidney @ 5 mv: dental infection until proven
otherwise.
-- Proper nutrition and voltage are the secrets to longevity.  *
*
Is there a tie in to the laser here?
Larry Lytle inventor of the Q-1000 has his book *Health is Light*

Don

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Nenah Sylver nenahsyl...@cox.net wrote:

  As Dr. Tennant outlines in his book, the amount of cellular voltage that
 corresponds to various states of the cells and tissues—degeneration, severe
 degeneration, inflammation, severe inflammation, and normal—has a distinct
 correlation with biological and physiological processes. This includes pH.
 These voltages aren’t made up by Tennant. They are parameters of voltage,
 measurements of voltage under various conditions that were established in
 the 1940s in Germany by Reinhold Voll, whose work was later expanded on by
 many others. Dr. Tennant has simply laid it out in an easily accessible
 manner in his book.



 The Tennant Biomodulator, which I own, is a biofeedback device that
 restores voltage to the tissues. The frequency and wave shape it emits
 depends on (1) the signals it receives from the skin as the subject is being
 treated, (2) the amplitude of the wave (volume as set by the user), and (3)
 the setting on the device (there are several treatment and assess settings).




 The electromagnetic (EM) emanations from cells always precede chemical
 processes. Yes, there is a correlation between the two—when the EM signature
 changes, it affects the biochemistry; and when the biochemistry changes,
 that affects the EM signature. However, the EM signature changes FIRST.
 Often, changes in the EM signature can be detected before changes in the
 biochemistry can be detected. This is especially true of degenerative
 conditions. In the case of sudden, contagious pathogen infection or
 especially in the case of instantaneous injuries (such as accidents), there
 isn’t enough time between the EM signature change and the biochemical
 change. However, these are exceptions rather than the rule.



 There’s an article I wrote on electromedicine that’s freely available on my
 website:
 http://www.nenahsylver.com/electromedicine_healing_with_electromedicine.html

 I know that people tend to discount stuff that’s free, and from someone
 they know—but this article has been considered so important, it was first
 published in Townsend Letter, then in Nexus, and it’s now being translated
 into German and Korean. Perhaps some of you will read it. I wrote it to help
 people understand electromedicine.



 I bought a Biomodulator to help with chronic pain from whiplash I sustained
 in an auto accident many years ago. The decrease in pain was not merely
 palliative; there has been actual healing involved. (Read the article to
 find out why.)



 I have not only greatly benefitted from it myself, but have personally
 witnessed great improvements in others. One young woman had been injured as
 a child in a car accident. Her femur jutted out of her leg at a 90 degree
 angle. Doctors wanted to amputate but her parents wouldn’t let them, so they
 repositioned the bone and sent the girl home. For 12 years, she had no
 sensation in her knee and surrounding tissues. After three 1-1/2 hour
 sessions, sensation was restored.



 If anyone would like more information on the Biomodulator, please email me
 off-list.



 Best,

 Nenah



 Nenah Sylver, PhD

 electromedicine specialist and author

 The Rife Handbook of Frequency Therapy (2009)

  The Holistic Handbook of Sauna Therapy (2004)

 www.nenahsylver.com
   --

 [Jim] Although I understand some of the basics, there are wide gaps in my
 comprehension. For example, cells need voltage.  But the voltage can, in
 the body, come only from the chemical biology of the cells themselves, and
 must be regulated by cells.



 [Steve] Dr. Tennant doesn't explain his claim that all cells in the body
 need between -20 mV and -25 mV. Without an explanation his claim is pretty
 much worthless. But let me make a guess. The optimal blood pH is somewhere
 between 7.35 and 7.45. If blood pH moves below 6.8 or above 7.8, cells stop
 functioning and the body dies.

RE: CSvoltage meter

[Rafael Villegas]

David Sereda does this. Also sells things to help keep healthy voltage
differential. http://www.voiceentertainment.net/

-Original Message-
From: Ode Coyote [mailto:odecoy...@windstream.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 6:39 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter

   I think Tennant is scamming ya'll.

What you are measuring is related to galvanic skin 
response..probably..capacitive discharge pathways for an uneven 
electro-potential and wetter and dryer areas of skin being connected by the 
meter.

Your skin is always picking up and discharging electrons from the 
environment...radiation, carpets  on and on.

ode



At 05:29 PM 9/20/2010 -0700, you wrote:
Dr. Jerry Tennant was interviewed on 
http://www.coasttocoastam.comwww.coasttocoastam.com July 21, 2010.
He has found all cells in the body need between -20 MV and -25 MV
Larry Lytle has his Q-1000 laser as well. see youtube

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:24 PM, needling around 
mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.netptf2...@bellsouth.net wrote:
Hi,
I was recently watching a video that was recommended and the doctor 
suggested using a voltage meter to measure the voltage of different points 
on the body.  I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if there 
are any caveats?
Thanks.
PT



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  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

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Re: CSvoltage meter

[Jim Holmes]

Is this the correct spelling?

scenar

Thank you,

   Jim

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Rafael Villegas rafa...@especulador.comwrote:

 David Sereda does this. Also sells things to help keep healthy voltage
 differential. http://www.voiceentertainment.net/

 -Original Message-
 From: Ode Coyote [mailto:odecoy...@windstream.net]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 6:39 AM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter

I think Tennant is scamming ya'll.

 What you are measuring is related to galvanic skin
 response..probably..capacitive discharge pathways for an uneven
 electro-potential and wetter and dryer areas of skin being connected by the
 meter.

 Your skin is always picking up and discharging electrons from the
 environment...radiation, carpets  on and on.

 ode



 At 05:29 PM 9/20/2010 -0700, you wrote:
 Dr. Jerry Tennant was interviewed on
 http://www.coasttocoastam.comwww.coasttocoastam.com July 21, 2010.
 He has found all cells in the body need between -20 MV and -25 MV
 Larry Lytle has his Q-1000 laser as well. see youtube
 
 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:24 PM, needling around
 mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.netptf2...@bellsouth.net wrote:
 Hi,
 I was recently watching a video that was recommended and the doctor
 suggested using a voltage meter to measure the voltage of different points
 on the body.  I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if there
 are any caveats?
 Thanks.
 PT
 


 --
 The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

 Unsubscribe:
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 List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com

Re: CSvoltage meter

[Norton, Steve]

Dr. Tennant doesn't explain his claim that all cells in the body need between 
-20 mV and -25 mV. Without an explanation his claim is pretty much worthless. 
But let me make a guess. The optimal blood pH is somewhere between 7.35 and 
7.45. If blood pH moves below 6.8 or above 7.8, cells stop functioning and the 
body dies. 


A pH meter measures Ph as follows (http://www.omega.com/techref/ph-3.html):

pH electrodes are constructed from a special composition glass which senses 
the hydrogen ion concentration. This glass is typically composed of alkali 
metal ions. The alkali metal ions of the glass and the hydrogen ions in 
solution undergo an ion exchange reaction, generating a potential difference. 
In a combination pH electrode, the most widely used variety, there are actually 
two electrodes in one body. One portion is called the measuring electrode, the 
other the reference electrode. The potential generated at the junction site of 
the measuring portion is due to the free hydrogen ions present in solution.
The potential of the reference portion is produced by the internal element in 
contact with the reference fill solution. This potential is always constant. In 
summary, the measuring electrode delivers a varying voltage and the reference 
electrode delivers a constant voltage to the meter.
pH electrodes are like batteries; they run down with time and use. As an 
electrode ages, its glass changes resistance. This resistance change alters the 
electrode potential. For this reason, electrodes need to be calibrated on a 
regular basis. Calibration in pH buffer solution corrects for this change. 
Calibration of any pH equipment should always begin with buffer 7.0 as this is 
the zero point. The pH scale has an equivalent mV scale. The mV scale ranges 
from +420 to -420 mV. At a pH of 7.0 the mV value is 0. Each pH change 
corresponds to a change of ±60 mV. As pH values become more acidic the mV 
values become greater. For example, a pH of 4.0 corresponds to a value of 180 
mV. As pH values become more basic the mV values become more negative; pH=9 
corresponds to -120 mV.


Therefore a pH meter reading between -20 mV and -25 mV would correspond to a pH 
of 7.33 to 7.41. A fairly startling coincidence I would say. I think that this 
is where Dr. Tennant gets his claim. But his claim is total nonsense in the 
context he uses it. 

The pH meter uses a specially designed probe which basically creates a battery 
that uses free hydrogen ions as the electrolyte. The voltage measured is 
directly related to the amount of free hydrogen ions in the electrolyte. You 
cannot use a voltmeter to measure the pH of the skin, a liquid on the skin or a 
cell. Tennant's claim of doing so is rubbish.

Dr. Tennant uses this supposed effect to explain what his device does but it is 
all show and false science. And there is no way that his device can alter the 
body or a cell's pH. His device appears to be similar to a number of other 
devices that are used to reduce pain. Dr. Tennant has several patents but they 
are what I believe are called application patents. They only patent certain 
pulse configurations that Tennant's device uses and not the underlying 
methodology. The other makers of pain reduction devices also have their 
'unique' application patents but the underlying methodology is the same for all 
of them. 

- Steve N


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The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

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RE: CSvoltage meter

[Norton, Steve]

The sentence below should have read  And there is no way that his device can 
permanently alter the body or a cell's pH.

 - Steve N

-Original Message-
From: Norton, Steve 
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 5:05 PM
To: 'silver-list@eskimo.com'
Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter

Dr. Tennant doesn't explain his claim that all cells in the body need between 
-20 mV and -25 mV. Without an explanation his claim is pretty much worthless. 
But let me make a guess. The optimal blood pH is somewhere between 7.35 and 
7.45. If blood pH moves below 6.8 or above 7.8, cells stop functioning and the 
body dies. 


A pH meter measures Ph as follows (http://www.omega.com/techref/ph-3.html):

pH electrodes are constructed from a special composition glass which senses 
the hydrogen ion concentration. This glass is typically composed of alkali 
metal ions. The alkali metal ions of the glass and the hydrogen ions in 
solution undergo an ion exchange reaction, generating a potential difference. 
In a combination pH electrode, the most widely used variety, there are actually 
two electrodes in one body. One portion is called the measuring electrode, the 
other the reference electrode. The potential generated at the junction site of 
the measuring portion is due to the free hydrogen ions present in solution.
The potential of the reference portion is produced by the internal element in 
contact with the reference fill solution. This potential is always constant. In 
summary, the measuring electrode delivers a varying voltage and the reference 
electrode delivers a constant voltage to the meter.
pH electrodes are like batteries; they run down with time and use. As an 
electrode ages, its glass changes resistance. This resistance change alters the 
electrode potential. For this reason, electrodes need to be calibrated on a 
regular basis. Calibration in pH buffer solution corrects for this change. 
Calibration of any pH equipment should always begin with buffer 7.0 as this is 
the zero point. The pH scale has an equivalent mV scale. The mV scale ranges 
from +420 to -420 mV. At a pH of 7.0 the mV value is 0. Each pH change 
corresponds to a change of ±60 mV. As pH values become more acidic the mV 
values become greater. For example, a pH of 4.0 corresponds to a value of 180 
mV. As pH values become more basic the mV values become more negative; pH=9 
corresponds to -120 mV.


Therefore a pH meter reading between -20 mV and -25 mV would correspond to a pH 
of 7.33 to 7.41. A fairly startling coincidence I would say. I think that this 
is where Dr. Tennant gets his claim. But his claim is total nonsense in the 
context he uses it. 


The pH meter uses a specially designed probe which basically creates a battery 
that uses free hydrogen ions as the electrolyte. The voltage measured is 
directly related to the amount of free hydrogen ions in the electrolyte. You 
cannot use a voltmeter to measure the pH of the skin, a liquid on the skin or a 
cell. Tennant's claim of doing so is rubbish.

Dr. Tennant uses this supposed effect to explain what his device does but it is 
all show and false science. And there is no way that his device can alter the 
body or a cell's pH. His device appears to be similar to a number of other 
devices that are used to reduce pain. Dr. Tennant has several patents but they 
are what I believe are called application patents. They only patent certain 
pulse configurations that Tennant's device uses and not the underlying 
methodology. The other makers of pain reduction devices also have their 
'unique' application patents but the underlying methodology is the same for all 
of them. 

- Steve N


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Re: CSvoltage meter

[Ode Coyote]

  I think Tennant is scamming ya'll.

What you are measuring is related to galvanic skin 
response..probably..capacitive discharge pathways for an uneven 
electro-potential and wetter and dryer areas of skin being connected by the 
meter.


Your skin is always picking up and discharging electrons from the 
environment...radiation, carpets  on and on.


ode



At 05:29 PM 9/20/2010 -0700, you wrote:
Dr. Jerry Tennant was interviewed on 
http://www.coasttocoastam.comwww.coasttocoastam.com July 21, 2010.

He has found all cells in the body need between -20 MV and -25 MV
Larry Lytle has his Q-1000 laser as well. see youtube

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:24 PM, needling around 
mailto:ptf2...@bellsouth.netptf2...@bellsouth.net wrote:

Hi,
I was recently watching a video that was recommended and the doctor 
suggested using a voltage meter to measure the voltage of different points 
on the body.  I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if there 
are any caveats?

Thanks.
PT




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Re: CSvoltage meter

[Don Barnes]

From talk www.coasttocoastam.com 7-21-10

Dr. Jerry Tennant www.tennantinstitute.com  972-580-1156 and Dr Mark Starr
-- If all of your bioterminals average out at -10 millivolts you are a
thyroid patient until proven otherwise.
-- At normal body voltage save the kidney at 5 millivolts, that is a dental
infection until proven otherwise.
-- All cells in an adult run ∆ -20 to -25 millivolts. Proper nutrition and
voltage are the secrets to longevity
-- More Larry Lytle *H**ealth is Light

*
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Don Barnes donfi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dr. Jerry Tennant was interviewed on www.coasttocoastam.com July 21,
 2010.
 He has found all cells in the body need between -20 MV and -25 MV
 Larry Lytle has his Q-1000 laser as well. see youtube


 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:24 PM, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.netwrote:

  Hi,
 I was recently watching a video that was recommended and the doctor
 suggested using a voltage meter to measure the voltage of different points
 on the body.  I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if there are
 any caveats?
 Thanks.
 PT

Re: CSvoltage meter

[Jim Holmes]

Hello all,

I am interested in any opinions and comments and discussion of the work of
Gerry Tennant that anyone can offer.

TIA,

 Jim

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 11:29 PM, Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.comwrote:

 I would very much like to know just what voltage Dr. Tennant is talking
 about. If you are not grounded and in an RF shielded room, you are very
 likely to measure voltage potentials caused by static charges or outside
 electromagnetic signals. I have read that you are also able to pick up small
 electrical potential variations going through the skin when muscles are
 contracting and relaxing.. With a bit of testing and practice you can raise,
 lower and reverse the polarity of the tiny voltages present on your skin.

 If he is talking about voltage across a cell membrane I don't see how that
 is possible. See:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nernst_equation
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_equation

 The voltage level of -20 mV and -25 mV would seem to relate to a cell
 membrane voltage but you cannot measure a single cell's membrane voltage
 potential.

 In his video he moves his whatchamacallit across the skin looking for dry
 areas and says that they indicate areas of low voltage potential. But you
 would measure skin resistivity to find those areas not voltage. I don't
 think you can use a voltmeter to measure anything relevant.

  - Steve N


 From: Don Barnes [mailto:donfi...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 5:29 PM
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Cc: donfi...@gmail.com
 Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSvoltage meter

 Dr. Jerry Tennant was interviewed on www.coasttocoastam.com July 21,
 2010.
 He has found all cells in the body need between -20 MV and -25 MV
 Larry Lytle has his Q-1000 laser as well. see youtube
 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:24 PM, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net
 wrote:
 Hi,
 I was recently watching a video that was recommended and the doctor
 suggested using a voltage meter to measure the voltage of different points
 on the body.  I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if there are
 any caveats?
 Thanks.
 PT


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Re: CSvoltage meter

[needling around]

Hi,
You might want to look into the Russian scenar devices of Dr. Karasev.  From 
what I have read of Tennant's work his unit seems to be patterned after the 
Russian devices.
PT
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jim Holmes 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:17 PM
  Subject: Re: CSvoltage meter


  Hello all,

  I am interested in any opinions and comments and discussion of the work of 
Gerry Tennant that anyone can offer.

  TIA,

   Jim 


  On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 11:29 PM, Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com 
wrote:

I would very much like to know just what voltage Dr. Tennant is talking 
about. If you are not grounded and in an RF shielded room, you are very likely 
to measure voltage potentials caused by static charges or outside 
electromagnetic signals. I have read that you are also able to pick up small 
electrical potential variations going through the skin when muscles are 
contracting and relaxing.. With a bit of testing and practice you can raise, 
lower and reverse the polarity of the tiny voltages present on your skin.

If he is talking about voltage across a cell membrane I don't see how that 
is possible. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nernst_equation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_equation

The voltage level of -20 mV and -25 mV would seem to relate to a cell 
membrane voltage but you cannot measure a single cell's membrane voltage 
potential.

In his video he moves his whatchamacallit across the skin looking for dry 
areas and says that they indicate areas of low voltage potential. But you would 
measure skin resistivity to find those areas not voltage. I don't think you can 
use a voltmeter to measure anything relevant.

 - Steve N


From: Don Barnes [mailto:donfi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 5:29 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Cc: donfi...@gmail.com
Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSvoltage meter


Dr. Jerry Tennant was interviewed on www.coasttocoastam.com July 21, 2010. 
He has found all cells in the body need between -20 MV and -25 MV
Larry Lytle has his Q-1000 laser as well. see youtube  
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:24 PM, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net 
wrote:
Hi,
I was recently watching a video that was recommended and the doctor 
suggested using a voltage meter to measure the voltage of different points on 
the body.  I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if there are any 
caveats?
Thanks.
PT



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Re: CSvoltage meter

[Don Barnes]

Dr. Jerry Tennant was interviewed on www.coasttocoastam.com July 21, 2010.
He has found all cells in the body need between -20 MV and -25 MV
Larry Lytle has his Q-1000 laser as well. see youtube

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:24 PM, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.netwrote:

  Hi,
 I was recently watching a video that was recommended and the doctor
 suggested using a voltage meter to measure the voltage of different points
 on the body.  I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if there are
 any caveats?
 Thanks.
 PT

Re: CSvoltage meter

[Norton, Steve]

I would very much like to know just what voltage Dr. Tennant is talking about. 
If you are not grounded and in an RF shielded room, you are very likely to 
measure voltage potentials caused by static charges or outside electromagnetic 
signals. I have read that you are also able to pick up small electrical 
potential variations going through the skin when muscles are contracting and 
relaxing.. With a bit of testing and practice you can raise, lower and reverse 
the polarity of the tiny voltages present on your skin.

If he is talking about voltage across a cell membrane I don't see how that is 
possible. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nernst_equation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_equation

The voltage level of -20 mV and -25 mV would seem to relate to a cell membrane 
voltage but you cannot measure a single cell's membrane voltage potential. 

In his video he moves his whatchamacallit across the skin looking for dry areas 
and says that they indicate areas of low voltage potential. But you would 
measure skin resistivity to find those areas not voltage. I don't think you can 
use a voltmeter to measure anything relevant.

 - Steve N


From: Don Barnes [mailto:donfi...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 5:29 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Cc: donfi...@gmail.com
Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: CSvoltage meter

Dr. Jerry Tennant was interviewed on www.coasttocoastam.com July 21, 2010. 
He has found all cells in the body need between -20 MV and -25 MV
Larry Lytle has his Q-1000 laser as well. see youtube  
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:24 PM, needling around ptf2...@bellsouth.net wrote:
Hi,
I was recently watching a video that was recommended and the doctor suggested 
using a voltage meter to measure the voltage of different points on the body.  
I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if there are any caveats?
Thanks.
PT


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CSvoltage meter

[needling around]

Hi,
I was recently watching a video that was recommended and the doctor suggested 
using a voltage meter to measure the voltage of different points on the body.  
I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this and if there are any caveats?
Thanks.
PT

Re: CSVoltage and Current Factor, Related to Something

[Dan Nave]

Afternoon Wayne,

Of course voltage, current, and resistance are all proportional to one
another.  In a simple circuit, if you change one, you change the
other/s in proportion according to Ohm's Law.

Voltage, or Current, or Resistance can be held constant and one or two
of the other variables then change.

The question here is whether voltage has any relationship to producing
silver ions.  It does not.  It is the current level which affects the
production of silver.  You have to have enough voltage to enable
electrolysis, but you can see from the example I previously posted
that it is only current which affects how much silver is liberated.

So what's the problem?  Amount of released silver, ion production, is
related to current.
Voltage is only relevant in that it has to be high enough to support
the particular current.

(Too little voltage?  Move the electrodes closer together...  Voltage
does not change, but current will increase along with an increase of
released silver ions.)

Dan

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Wayne Fugitt cwa...@netdoor.com wrote:
 Evening Dan,

 At 12:54 PM 4/15/2009, you wrote:

 Isn't there a commandment about dropping my name in vain?...

   Yes,  I understand.

   You name is never in vain .

   No Voltage,  No current.

   To say, one is related, the other is not, ..
    How can that be ?

   Current cannot exist without Voltage,   Can it ?

  I believe that the voltage on the electrodes,
  must indeed change, to keep the current the same.

 The resistance, ( conductance ) of the solution certainly changes.
 Current cannot be constant, without a change of Voltage,
 If so,  please explain.

 That is Redneck Logic,

 I would be interested in  Yankee Logic.

 Wayne

  - An Old Chinese Proverb

 1. He who knows and knows not that he knows. 2. He who knows not and knows
 not that he knows not. 3. He who knows not and knows that he knows not. 4.
 He who knows and knows that he knows. Author unknown   He is a
 king... follow him.      He is a child... teach him.   He is
 a fool... shun him   He is asleep... wake
 him.==

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Re: CSVoltage and Current Factor, Related to Something

[Dan Nave]

I hesitate to put myself forward as the representative of all Yankees,
since I wasn't born, or raised for the most part, in the US.

But I would hazard a guess that Yankee logic would say, If it works,
it is right.

They are noted for being practical, after all...

(And, overseas, *you* would be a Yankee too... ;-))

Dan

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Wayne Fugitt cwa...@netdoor.com wrote:

  please explain.

 That is Redneck Logic,

 I would be interested in  Yankee Logic.

 Wayne



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Re: CSVoltage and Current Factor, Is there one

[Ode Coyote]

 That's one that makes the average automotive troubleshooter pull his 
hair out.


 Corrosion can do really weird things with  heat changing the resistance 
of the corrosion layer.
 I've even had headlights turn themselves into blinkers with a heating and 
cooling cycle in a corroded switch.


Ode



Finally, I must say,   The Resistive Connection is the most dangerous
one of all.

It will burn your house down and kill you.

Anyone want to add to the confusion or Clear it all up ?

Either way,  be my guest.   I will be glad to know.

Wayne

==










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Re: CSVoltage and Current Factor, Is there one

[Wayne Fugitt]

Morning Ode,

At 05:44 AM 4/15/2009, you wrote:
 I've even had headlights turn themselves into blinkers with a 
heating and cooling cycle in a corroded switch.


 Thanks for jogging my memory.

 I had one car that did that.  Drove me Crazy.

 I had totally forgotten about it.  Terrible, it was.

Wayne
=



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Re: CSVoltage and Current Factor, Is there one

[Dan Nave]

Afternoon Wayne,

Isn't there a commandment about dropping my name in vain?...

So what's the problem?  Amount of released silver, ion production, is
related to current.
Voltage is only relevant in that it has to be high enough to support
the particular current.

(Too little voltage?  Move the electrodes closer together...  Voltage
does not change, but current will increase along with an increase of
relased silver ions.)

Dan

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Wayne Fugitt cwa...@netdoor.com wrote:
 Evening Ode and Everyone,

 At 11:44 AM 4/14/2009, you wrote:

  Ion production rates are current related, not voltage related.

 Several years back,  I posted a message relative to the
 Current and Voltage Factor that has specific effect on
 ion production.

 No one said one word,   no not one.
 No one agreed, no one disagreed, no one even asked a single question.

 What did this tell us,
 No one knows, no one cares, no one gives a hoot,
 or...
 No one knew enough to ask on question.

 Then,  A year or two later, I posted the same statement again.
 I think you was the very one, that agreed with me,
 on maybe Dan Nave.

 The statement again, 
  Ion production rates are current related, not voltage related.

 Current cannot be the same, ...
          Without out BEING VOLTAGE RELATED
                What is Related, and What is not ?

 It remains hard for me to believe that
 3 ma does the same work at  3 VDC, 6 VDC,  12 VDC or a higher voltage.

 We were not talking about constant current devices, or regulated
 circuits,   They were not so common at that time.

 Of course I understand regulated circuits, voltage drops, and
 resistive connections.

 One power supply that I built had  5 V  Regulated,  12 V Regulated
 and a 16 volt battery charger, all on the same neat little board.

 I was building solid State Voltage regulators for Cars, back into the
 early 60's.   Also Transistor Ignition systems that were fantastic.
 One would fire a 5/8 inch gap, in a test distributor turning 7000 rpm.
 That would get your attention, .. yes it would.

 Yes, there are many voltage drops in any CS Gen circuit and the process.
 Even the one across the solution changes as the batch progresses,
 Regulated or NOT regulated.  ( But related to something )

 If one understand the situation at hand, they will know where these
 voltage drops exist.  If they do not understand, they would not understand
 if I listed them.   No need to add confusion, to an already confusing
 situation,

 Finally, I must say,   The Resistive Connection is the most dangerous
 one of all.

 It will burn your house down and kill you.

 Anyone want to add to the confusion or Clear it all up ?

 Either way,  be my guest.   I will be glad to know.

 Wayne

 ==










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CSVoltage and Current Factor, Related to Something

[Wayne Fugitt]

Evening Dan,
At 12:54 PM 4/15/2009, you wrote:
Isn't there a commandment about
dropping my name in vain?... 
 Yes,  I understand.
 You name is never in vain .
 No Voltage, No current.
 To say, one is related, the other is not, ..
 How can that be ?
 
 Current cannot exist without Voltage, Can it
?
I believe that the voltage on the electrodes,
must indeed change, to keep the current the same.
The resistance, ( conductance ) of the solution certainly changes.
Current cannot be constant, without a change of Voltage,
If so,  please explain.
That is Redneck Logic,
I would be interested in Yankee Logic.
Wayne


- An Old
Chinese Proverb


1. He who knows and
knows not that he knows.
 He is
asleep... wake him.
2. He who knows not and
knows not that he knows not.
 He is a
fool... shun him
3. He who knows not and
knows that he knows not.
 He is a
child... teach him.
4. He who knows and
knows that he knows.
 He is a
king... follow him.
Author unknown

== 



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CSVoltage and Current Factor, Is there one

[Wayne Fugitt]

Evening Ode and Everyone,

 At 11:44 AM 4/14/2009, you wrote:

 Ion production rates are current related, not voltage related.


Several years back,  I posted a message relative to the
Current and Voltage Factor that has specific effect on
ion production.

No one said one word,   no not one.
No one agreed, no one disagreed, no one even asked a single question.

What did this tell us,
No one knows, no one cares, no one gives a hoot,
or...
No one knew enough to ask on question.

Then,  A year or two later, I posted the same statement again.
I think you was the very one, that agreed with me,
on maybe Dan Nave.

The statement again, 
  Ion production rates are current related, not voltage related.

Current cannot be the same, ...
  Without out BEING VOLTAGE RELATED
What is Related, and What is not ?

It remains hard for me to believe that
3 ma does the same work at  3 VDC, 6 VDC,  12 VDC or a higher voltage.

We were not talking about constant current devices, or regulated
circuits,   They were not so common at that time.

Of course I understand regulated circuits, voltage drops, and
resistive connections.

One power supply that I built had  5 V  Regulated,  12 V Regulated
and a 16 volt battery charger, all on the same neat little board.

I was building solid State Voltage regulators for Cars, back into the
early 60's.   Also Transistor Ignition systems that were fantastic.
One would fire a 5/8 inch gap, in a test distributor turning 7000 rpm.
That would get your attention, .. yes it would.

Yes, there are many voltage drops in any CS Gen circuit and the process.
Even the one across the solution changes as the batch progresses,
Regulated or NOT regulated.  ( But related to something )

If one understand the situation at hand, they will know where these
voltage drops exist.  If they do not understand, they would not understand
if I listed them.   No need to add confusion, to an already confusing
situation,

Finally, I must say,   The Resistive Connection is the most dangerous
one of all.

It will burn your house down and kill you.

Anyone want to add to the confusion or Clear it all up ?

Either way,  be my guest.   I will be glad to know.

Wayne

==










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CSVoltage and Internet Search string

[Wayne Fugitt]

Morning Levi,

Thanks for the Search String.  Been studying that stuff for many years.

At 12:30 AM 11/21/2007, you wrote:


Thanks for the information on the 52 volt telephone line source.

I knew the ring voltage was higher cause I got a shock while rewiring a 
phone line once.


  The Ringing Voltage feels higher, with some meters it could read higher.

Once I was working on my phone lines at my house and office.
Some fool kept calling and I was shocked many times.

Always thought the normal working voltage was lower, like perhaps 24 volt. 
Obvious to me that the 9 volt ac transformer is creating mostly the ionic 
silver, and I need to get higher voltage to get small colloidal size. I 
can handle it; don't need any more info.

  I have a 5000 volt transformer if you wanted it.
  Some use 100 VDC.

A good thread title can sometimes set the net afire. Search for Notes 
of Debt are not Income for an example.


I spent some time on the find of the search.
Awesome what I found. Many links on one of the best pages did not work.  I 
suspect those sites have been intentionally knocked off the Internet.

Could have been other thing.  Will try then later.

Wayne

==

Re: CSVoltage...Where did my H2 go?

[Carlos P�rez]

Hellow, friends,

As you remember, with the help of many of you I have learned how to make a 
very decent EIS, but I still have questions to ask in order to keep 
improving.


The latest provisional setup I am using consists in the following:

A cylindrical glass flower pot 20 cm high, 10 cm in diameter, which holds 
1350 ml


A plastic disk covering the container, with two sets of two holes, distance 
between holes 25mm, distance between sets 45 mm, drilled to accomodate two 
 10ga silver wire electrodes, 262mm long each, bent in a long U, the 
tips coming out of the holes, one tip in each used to clamp the alligator 
clips coming out of the circuit (built with the help of list members and 
with some home made additions), which results in two U form electrodes 
with 25 mm separation between legs, 45 mm distance between electrodes, 
immersed 232 mm in water.


The power source is a 24 V DC output computer transformer.

Procedure:

I use 250 ml of previous EIS batch, usually averaging 16 ppm according to 
Faraday equation. Add 1100 ml of bi-distilled, filtered, de-ionised water 
which has a conductivity of 0.2-0.25 mA.


Example of readings every hour from last batch, no stirring at all:

9.6V-0.4mA
8.9V-0.4mA
8.1V-0.4mA
7.3V-0.5mA
6.6V-0.55mA
6.0V-0.6mA

At this moment I stoppped a few seconds in order to clean
cathode´s mild accumulation of silver oxide w/ paper towel.

5.3V-0.7mA
4.9V-0.7mA
4.4V-0.7mA
4.2V-0.75mA
3.9V-0.75mA

Clean cathode again.

I prefer to take a longer time in order to maintain the process at a maximum 
of 0.75mA, since I understand this way I get smaller colloidal particles 
produced.


According to the Faraday Equation, I got 16.5 ppm after 10 hours. I can 
reach above 20 ppm within the same 0.75 mA if I need it just letting the 
process go two hours longer.


Here are my questions:

There is not any hydrogen bubbling produced at the cathode. Where does the 
hydrogen go?


Do I still need stirring in this setup?

The EIS produced is cristal clear, no yellow hue even after months, 
practically invisible Tyndall effect, no residues at bottom of jar, 
occasionally 3 or 4 tiny white specs floating that I remove at the end.


What am I getting in my EIS? What are the approximate proportions of 
ionic/colloidal silver?


If I don´t clean the cathode, dark grey beard-like fuzzies naturally build 
at the lowest part of it towards the end of process and I get two or three 
little pools of mirror-looking silver floating on top.


Thanks again for your help!!

Carlos


From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@alltel.net
Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSVoltage
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:26:24 -0400



  Voltage is irrelevant.
 Any voltage over 1.2 will do.
 Current density, the ratio of current drawn through your changing 
conductivity in the water to surface area of the electrode is important to 
keep the Nernst Diffusion layer from over loading.
 Current draw can be controlled by gradually increasing distance between 
electrodes, or by using a constant current circuit that drops the voltage 
as the conductivity goes up.

 It's all about Ohms law.
 A 20K series resistor with a 24 volt power source works ...OK.

ode


_
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RE: CSVoltage...Where did my H2 go?

[Dan Nave]

With large electrodes and very low currents you may not see hydrogen bubbles.

The Faraday equation gives the total amount of silver released into the water, 
and if you have residues building up your final product will be of less ppm 
than indicated by the equation.  The Faraday equation indicates the *maximum 
possible* ppm but you will have to subtract the losses from that maximum.

Dan

-Original Message-
From: Carlos Pérez [mailto:explorer...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 2:29 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSVoltage...Where did my H2 go?

Hellow, friends,

As you remember, with the help of many of you I have learned how to make a very 
decent EIS, but I still have questions to ask in order to keep improving.

The latest provisional setup I am using consists in the following:

A cylindrical glass flower pot 20 cm high, 10 cm in diameter, which holds 1350 
ml

A plastic disk covering the container, with two sets of two holes, distance 
between holes 25mm, distance between sets 45 mm, drilled to accomodate two
 10ga silver wire electrodes, 262mm long each, bent in a long U, the tips 
coming out of the holes, one tip in each used to clamp the alligator clips 
coming out of the circuit (built with the help of list members and with some 
home made additions), which results in two U form electrodes with 25 mm 
separation between legs, 45 mm distance between electrodes, immersed 232 mm in 
water.

The power source is a 24 V DC output computer transformer.

Procedure:

I use 250 ml of previous EIS batch, usually averaging 16 ppm according to 
Faraday equation. Add 1100 ml of bi-distilled, filtered, de-ionised water which 
has a conductivity of 0.2-0.25 mA.

Example of readings every hour from last batch, no stirring at all:

9.6V-0.4mA
8.9V-0.4mA
8.1V-0.4mA
7.3V-0.5mA
6.6V-0.55mA
6.0V-0.6mA

At this moment I stoppped a few seconds in order to clean cathode´s mild 
accumulation of silver oxide w/ paper towel.

5.3V-0.7mA
4.9V-0.7mA
4.4V-0.7mA
4.2V-0.75mA
3.9V-0.75mA

Clean cathode again.

I prefer to take a longer time in order to maintain the process at a maximum of 
0.75mA, since I understand this way I get smaller colloidal particles produced.

According to the Faraday Equation, I got 16.5 ppm after 10 hours. I can reach 
above 20 ppm within the same 0.75 mA if I need it just letting the process go 
two hours longer.

Here are my questions:

There is not any hydrogen bubbling produced at the cathode. Where does the 
hydrogen go?

Do I still need stirring in this setup?

The EIS produced is cristal clear, no yellow hue even after months, practically 
invisible Tyndall effect, no residues at bottom of jar, occasionally 3 or 4 
tiny white specs floating that I remove at the end.

What am I getting in my EIS? What are the approximate proportions of 
ionic/colloidal silver?

If I don´t clean the cathode, dark grey beard-like fuzzies naturally build at 
the lowest part of it towards the end of process and I get two or three little 
pools of mirror-looking silver floating on top.

Thanks again for your help!!

Carlos

From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@alltel.net
Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSVoltage
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:26:24 -0400



   Voltage is irrelevant.
  Any voltage over 1.2 will do.
  Current density, the ratio of current drawn through your changing 
conductivity in the water to surface area of the electrode is important 
to keep the Nernst Diffusion layer from over loading.
  Current draw can be controlled by gradually increasing distance 
between electrodes, or by using a constant current circuit that drops 
the voltage as the conductivity goes up.
  It's all about Ohms law.
  A 20K series resistor with a 24 volt power source works ...OK.

ode

_
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http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


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RE: CSVoltage...Where did my H2 go?

[Carlos P�rez]

Hello, Dan,

I am using large electrodes, 45 mm separation between them, low current 
(under 0.8 mA at end of process), trying to obtain a good quality EIS with 
very little residues and without stirring. The Faraday equation helps me 
very much in order to understand what goes on along the process, and I am 
conscious that the final ppm concentration is somewhat lower in the end 
product. I will increase separation between electrodes 20 mm more and keep 
amperage lower in order to see new results. It will probably take several 
hours longer but results should be better.


Thank you for your help.

Carlos



From: Dan Nave dan.n...@nilfisk-advance.com
Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CSVoltage...Where did my H2 go?
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:13:37 -0500

With large electrodes and very low currents you may not see hydrogen 
bubbles.


The Faraday equation gives the total amount of silver released into the 
water, and if you have residues building up your final product will be of 
less ppm than indicated by the equation.  The Faraday equation indicates 
the *maximum possible* ppm but you will have to subtract the losses from 
that maximum.


Dan



_
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CSVoltage

[mukta1]

Hi Wayne, group,

I'd like to share my CS experience. I made my generator as
per Jim Meissner from another forum. Two 1.5 volt batteries,
a total of 3 v. supply. According to Jim after 24 hours the
quart of distilled water will have 5-10 ppm, after 48 hours
- 15-20 ppm.

I measured the starting current and it was between 80 and
180 microamps for my arrangement depending on DW quality. I
buy now only from the 80 uA source.

Usually after a day or two the current is below 1 mA and
water colour is light yellow to dark yellow.

I do not use other measurements except for voltage and
amperage.

Wayne, an idea - since you do not like regular power supply,
why you do not try to supply the generator by an antena
taking energy from the local radio broadcasting through a
diode. Possibly you will need a week for a batch.

Simeon


-

Първият интернет портал за имоти
imoti.net
С ново лице и нови възможности
http://www.imoti.net/nd/


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Re: CSVoltage

[Ode Coyote]

  What he's saying is that in order to control the current, the circuit 
drops the voltage as conductivity rises.
 So, it doesn't matter if you start with 1000 volts or 6 volts.   Once the 
max current is being drawn, the voltage at the electrodes will be the same.
The time it takes to increase conductivity in order to pull the max current 
will be shorter with more voltage and/or less electrode distance.
 At 100 volts that ' current ramp up'  time will be very short, at 6 volts 
it can take several hours.


ode

At 11:22 AM 7/10/2007 -0500, you wrote:


Morning Chuck,

 At 11:09 AM 7/10/2007, you wrote:

 Your message sounds real good and factual.

I read it a few times and it made me think  grin

Once you're at the 1 ma, the time to end of process will
 be the same.

 Sound like you are saying that 1 ma at 6 volt does the same work as 1 ma 
at 30 volts.   Interesting.

Or, 1 ma at 52 volts. or even 1 ma at 110 VDC.

On any non regulated power supply things happen we never discuss.
There is a quality of power supplies called  Regulation Percentage.
Of course at this low current, it likely does not enter into the picture.

Oh well... nothing is as it seems sometimes.

Wayne




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Re: CSVoltage...Where did my H2 go?

[Carlos P�rez]

Hellow, friends,

As you remember, with the help of many of you I have learned how to make a 
very decent EIS, but I still have questions to ask in order to keep 
improving.


The latest provisional setup I am using consists in the following:

A cylindrical glass flower pot 20 cm high, 10 cm in diameter, which holds 
1350 ml


A plastic disk covering the container, with two sets of two holes, distance 
between holes 25mm, distance between sets 45 mm, drilled to accomodate two 
 10ga silver wire electrodes, 262mm long each, bent in a long U, the 
tips coming out of the holes, one tip in each used to clamp the alligator 
clips coming out of the circuit (built with the help of list members and 
with some home made additions), which results in two U form electrodes 
with 25 mm separation between legs, 45 mm distance between electrodes, 
immersed 232 mm in water.


The power source is a 24 V DC output computer transformer.

Procedure:

I use 250 ml of previous EIS batch, usually averaging 16 ppm according to 
Faraday equation. Add 1100 ml of bi-distilled, filtered, de-ionised water 
which has a conductivity of 0.2-0.25 mA.


Example of readings every hour from last batch, no stirring at all:

9.6V-0.4mA
8.9V-0.4mA
8.1V-0.4mA
7.3V-0.5mA
6.6V-0.55mA
6.0V-0.6mA

At this moment I stoppped a few seconds in order to clean
cathode´s mild accumulation of silver oxide w/ paper towel.

5.3V-0.7mA
4.9V-0.7mA
4.4V-0.7mA
4.2V-0.75mA
3.9V-0.75mA

Clean cathode again.

I prefer to take a longer time in order to maintain the process at a maximum 
of 0.75mA, since I understand this way I get smaller colloidal particles 
produced.


According to the Faraday Equation, I got 16.5 ppm after 10 hours. I can 
reach above 20 ppm within the same 0.75 mA if I need it just letting the 
process go two hours longer.


Here are my questions:

There is not any hydrogen bubbling produced at the cathode. Where does the 
hydrogen go?


Do I still need stirring in this setup?

The EIS produced is cristal clear, no yellow hue even after months, 
practically invisible Tyndall effect, no residues at bottom of jar, 
occasionally 3 or 4 tiny white specs floating that I remove at the end.


What am I getting in my EIS? What are the approximate proportions of 
ionic/colloidal silver?


If I don´t clean the cathode, dark grey beard-like fuzzies naturally build 
at the lowest part of it towards the end of process and I get two or three 
little pools of mirror-looking silver floating on top.


Thanks again for your help!!

Carlos


From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@alltel.net
Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSVoltage
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:26:24 -0400



  Voltage is irrelevant.
 Any voltage over 1.2 will do.
 Current density, the ratio of current drawn through your changing 
conductivity in the water to surface area of the electrode is important to 
keep the Nernst Diffusion layer from over loading.
 Current draw can be controlled by gradually increasing distance between 
electrodes, or by using a constant current circuit that drops the voltage 
as the conductivity goes up.

 It's all about Ohms law.
 A 20K series resistor with a 24 volt power source works ...OK.

ode


_
http://newlivehotmail.com


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Re: CSVoltage

[CWFugitt]

Morning Keith,

 At 11:32 PM 7/9/2007, you wrote:

You missed a lot of technical messages about all this a few months ago.  IF 
you were using the right mailer or the key MBX format, I would send you 
many thousands of messages on a CD.


 My question is this..If the milliamps are so low then why do they 
recommend 27 to 31vdc? I can get the same milliamps using a 6volt 
300milliamp transformer as I can with the 30volt 1000milliamp transformer. 
What am I missing with the voltage issue?


 You need to understand that  1 ma at 6 volts is not then same as 1 ma at 
12 volts, 18 volts, 24 volts  or 52 volts.


This applies not only to CS but to all circuits.  It is a basic fact of 
Ohms Law and understanding power ( or Wattage ).


No power, no watts, no work.  You could think of it as a measurement of the 
work done in any circuit.  In time, I think you will understand it better.


I mentioned Wattage Factor a few years back, and no one said a single 
word.  Within the last year, one or two of the list experts agreed with me.


There is a wattage factor being dissipated in your CS batch.
It varies with both current and voltage. And the conductivity ( or resistance )
of the batch.

Apply 100 VDC to 1 ma and see what happens.  The batch will complete much 
faster.  This is not usually the goal, especially for the beginner.


At a later time, when you may make a gallon at a batch, it becomes more 
important.


At 6 volts, 1 ma ( .001 )  is .006 watts
At 52 Volts, 1 ma ( ,001 ) is .052 watts
So, you see the difference.

You might as well go ahead and study Ohms Law a little or you will continue 
to remain confused.  grin


There are lots of more technical stuff relating to the weight of the silver 
added to the water that you will become interested in later.


You must consider that our lists largest silver maker uses 100 VDC or maybe 
it is 110 VDC.  He does not do this just because he likes round numbers.


You will get another answer or two that may explain this better for you 
than I did.


Actually, I think you could use from 1 VDC up to 100, 200, or more.

The key is how you harness this power and not allow it to take control of 
the batch.  Likely the current limiting diodes you use will work with a 
range of voltage.


Of course I do not want a constant current device because the LED will not 
work and tell me the things that it does if the current varies.


The key is limiting the maximum current and not getting a run away batch.
I don't recall ever doing this and ruining a batch with over current.

Of course a circuit could be made to limit the current high, but not during 
the batch.  It could also serve as an automatic cut off.


Never fear,  mans hands can make anything his mind can dream up.

My goal one day if to build a computer controlled CS system that prints a 
log every minute or even every 30 seconds, and displays the progress, and 
all data on the screen.


Likely it would be no better than I make with a cheap CS generator.

Remember,  Mans mind is a fantastic control system within itself.
Of course it has to be trained and programmed a bit.

Wayne

CSVoltage (UNCLASSIFIED)

[Medwith, Robert]

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED 
Caveats: NONE
 


I use a current limiting Diode. It is interesting to connect up a  cheap
voltage meter (harbor freight less than $5 on sale).
You can connect up power source and meter to silver and move silver closer
and further apart.
You will see the voltage change to limit the diode to it's rated setting. 
You can use a lower voltage power source by moving silver closer together,
not sure how low a voltage and still get 1 Mill amp
(rating of current limiting diode I use). I will have to try and see some
time.  You could use lower source still if you seed the batch 
With some CS. I put some distilled water away (in some plastic jugs from
pretzels) I put several ounces of CS in it. 
I checked the water the other day it was still fine after 2 years. This
makes a good Emergency water supply.
I could probably add more CS and extend the water for 2 more years or just
use it to redistill it again and start over.

 Bob
 
Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED 
Caveats: NONE

Re: CSVoltage

[Ode Coyote]

  Voltage is irrelevant.
 Any voltage over 1.2 will do.
 Current density, the ratio of current drawn through your changing 
conductivity in the water to surface area of the electrode is important to 
keep the Nernst Diffusion layer from over loading.
 Current draw can be controlled by gradually increasing distance between 
electrodes, or by using a constant current circuit that drops the voltage 
as the conductivity goes up.

 It's all about Ohms law.
 A 20K series resistor with a 24 volt power source works ...OK.

ode


At 12:32 AM 7/10/2007 -0400, you wrote:

Hi all..Just a question about the voltage used to make CS. I have made 
about 1 gallon of CS at 15ppm. Is 15ppm OK? Half with 2 batteries and half 
with 3 batteries and I can tell no difference between the batches. I 
finally got my 30 volt transformer that I am also going to be using but I 
am going to use diodes to reduce the milliamps down to around 1.5 or 
.5milliamps. My question is this..If the milliamps are so low then why do 
they recommend 27 to 31vdc? I can get the same milliamps using a 6volt 
300milliamp transformer as I can with the 30volt 1000milliamp transformer. 
What am I missing with the voltage issue? Everyone has different voltages 
they like.
Also using two batteries I still have to stir the CS to keep it clear 
which is not a problem and I also found that if I heat the water to 42 
degrees Celsius it doesn't take as long to get 15ppm, so does anyone else 
heat the water?


Also will CS help a person with irritable bowel problems?

Now that I switched from Incredimail to Outlook Express my posts might go 
thru and I thank everyone for their help that they have given 
me...Cheers..Keithmj

NUDE is not LEWD..Play Naked!!



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Re: CSVoltage

[Fred Sprague]

CWFugitt wrote:

Morning Keith,

 At 11:32 PM 7/9/2007, you wrote:

You missed a lot of technical messages about all this a few months 
ago.  IF you were using the right mailer or the key MBX format, I 
would send you many thousands of messages on a CD.


 My question is this..If the milliamps are so low then why do they 
recommend 27 to 31vdc? I can get the same milliamps using a 6volt 
300milliamp transformer as I can with the 30volt 1000milliamp 
transformer. What am I missing with the voltage issue?


 You need to understand that  1 ma at 6 volts is not then same as 1 ma 
at 12 volts, 18 volts, 24 volts  or 52 volts.


This applies not only to CS but to all circuits.  It is a basic fact 
of Ohms Law and understanding power ( or Wattage ).


No power, no watts, no work.  You could think of it as a measurement 
of the work done in any circuit.  In time, I think you will understand 
it better.


I mentioned Wattage Factor a few years back, and no one said a 
single word.  Within the last year, one or two of the list experts 
agreed with me.


There is a wattage factor being dissipated in your CS batch.
It varies with both current and voltage. And the conductivity ( or 
resistance )

of the batch.

Apply 100 VDC to 1 ma and see what happens.  The batch will complete 
much faster.  This is not usually the goal, especially for the beginner.


At a later time, when you may make a gallon at a batch, it becomes 
more important.


At 6 volts, 1 ma ( .001 )  is .006 watts
At 52 Volts, 1 ma ( ,001 ) is .052 watts
So, you see the difference.

You might as well go ahead and study Ohms Law a little or you will 
continue to remain confused.  grin


There are lots of more technical stuff relating to the weight of the 
silver added to the water that you will become interested in later.


You must consider that our lists largest silver maker uses 100 VDC or 
maybe it is 110 VDC.  He does not do this just because he likes round 
numbers.


You will get another answer or two that may explain this better for 
you than I did.


Actually, I think you could use from 1 VDC up to 100, 200, or more.

The key is how you harness this power and not allow it to take control 
of the batch.  Likely the current limiting diodes you use will work 
with a range of voltage.


Of course I do not want a constant current device because the LED will 
not work and tell me the things that it does if the current varies.


The key is limiting the maximum current and not getting a run away 
batch.

I don't recall ever doing this and ruining a batch with over current.

Of course a circuit could be made to limit the current high, but not 
during the batch.  It could also serve as an automatic cut off.


Never fear,  mans hands can make anything his mind can dream up.

My goal one day if to build a computer controlled CS system that 
prints a log every minute or even every 30 seconds, and displays the 
progress, and all data on the screen.


Likely it would be no better than I make with a cheap CS generator.

Remember,  Mans mind is a fantastic control system within itself.
Of course it has to be trained and programmed a bit.

Wayne



The real question to me is this: If you start with 6v and 1ma CC, do you 
produce the same quality cs as a system using 30+ volts and the same CC? 
Assume here we stop at the same conductivity. Are the particles smaller? 
Is more silver oxide generated using lower voltage. My guess is that the 
quality is better with the higher voltage. The particles are smaller and 
less oxides.Has anyone specifically experimented with these ideas?


Fred





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Re: CSVoltage

[cking001]

Fred,
It will take you a lot longer w 6v than 30v to reach the same
conductivity.
Distilled water is not a great conductor, so the higher voltage will
overcome it's resistance quicker to get to your 1ma level than the
lower voltage will.
Once you're at the 1 ma, the time to end of process will be the same.

Chuck
You're only young once--after that you need another excuse  


On 7/10/2007 11:39:14 AM, Fred Sprague (f...@pmr-iowa.com) wrote:
The real question to me is this: If you start with 6v and 1ma CC, do you 
produce the same quality cs as a system using 30+ volts and the same CC? 
Assume here we stop at the same conductivity. Are the particles smaller? 
Is more silver oxide generated using lower voltage. My guess is that the 
quality is better with the higher voltage. The particles are smaller and 
less oxides.Has anyone specifically experimented with these ideas?

Fred


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CSVoltage. CS Quality, Technical Stuff

[CWFugitt]

Morning Fred,

At 10:39 AM 7/10/2007, you wrote:


The real question to me is this:


 Are the particles smaller? Is more silver oxide generated using lower 
voltage.


You ask some good  questions.

Other list members can answer that much better than I can.
I am not highly advanced in the technical aspects of CS quality.

Higher voltage must be good and acceptable, else Terry Chamberlain would 
not use it.


All this has been covered in the past.  If we had archives, you could find 
the answers.


I think the point that most of us miss ..

If you are going to try to make the best CS in the world today, you best 
have some very expensive equipment, a laboratory with test equipment, and 
knowledge that far surpasses the knowledge that most of us have.


You could say,  there is lousy CS, average CS, Better and Best.
I can say, that from the first batch, my CS has accomplished everything one 
can expect.


I don't have 1 % of the technical knowledge about CS as many list 
members.  Does it worry me ?  Not in the least.
Colloids is a science within itself.  The only ones that can master it are 
the ones that have worked with it for years.


I see many beginners get carried away and worry themselves to death.   Not 
necessary.  If they want to devote 1000's of hours studying all this, 
fine.  That is their choice.


Otherwise they should know their ability and limitations.
Be happy, make CS, use it, and be glad they can do it.

I am not saying this describes you.  Someone will likely answer your 
questions to your satisfaction.


Wayne







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Re: CSVoltage

[CWFugitt]

Morning Chuck,

 At 11:09 AM 7/10/2007, you wrote:

 Your message sounds real good and factual.

I read it a few times and it made me think  grin

Once you're at the 1 ma, the time to end of process will
 be the same.

 Sound like you are saying that 1 ma at 6 volt does the same work as 1 ma 
at 30 volts.   Interesting.

Or, 1 ma at 52 volts. or even 1 ma at 110 VDC.

On any non regulated power supply things happen we never discuss.
There is a quality of power supplies called  Regulation Percentage.
Of course at this low current, it likely does not enter into the picture.

Oh well... nothing is as it seems sometimes.

Wayne




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RE: CSVoltage

[Dan Nave]

Most of you replying are missing the point about starting out with
higher voltage.
 
The resistance of pure water is very high so it takes time to get the
conduction (amount of silver being released into the water) to increase
to the point where the current limit will take over.  Having higher
voltage at the beginning gets you to the current limiting point much
faster.  After the current limit circuit is saturated, it reduces the
voltage across the electrodes.  (It does this by increasing it's
resistance and thereby dropping more voltage across itself and leaving
less voltage to appear across the electrodes.)
 
So starting with a higher voltage will get your CS batch going faster at
the beginning.  Best to have a current limit circuit which is sized for
the silver electrodes you are using so you can maintain a low current
density on the electrodes, as was referred to by Ode.  
 
Without a current limit it may be harder to control the reaction at the
end of the brew.
 
Dan



From: Keithmj [mailto:ke...@keithmj.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:32 PM
To: Silverlist
Subject: CSVoltage


Hi all..Just a question about the voltage used to make CS. I have made
about 1 gallon of CS at 15ppm. Is 15ppm OK? Half with 2 batteries and
half with 3 batteries and I can tell no difference between the batches.
I finally got my 30 volt transformer that I am also going to be using
but I am going to use diodes to reduce the milliamps down to around 1.5
or .5milliamps. My question is this..If the milliamps are so low then
why do they recommend 27 to 31vdc? I can get the same milliamps using a
6volt 300milliamp transformer as I can with the 30volt 1000milliamp
transformer. What am I missing with the voltage issue? Everyone has
different voltages they like. 
Also using two batteries I still have to stir the CS to keep it clear
which is not a problem and I also found that if I heat the water to 42
degrees Celsius it doesn't take as long to get 15ppm, so does anyone
else heat the water?  
 
Also will CS help a person with irritable bowel problems? 
 
Now that I switched from Incredimail to Outlook Express my posts might
go thru and I thank everyone for their help that they have given
me...Cheers..Keithmj
  http://i.msgtag.com/aqnpcesnADalgykfcuw/yceqyxfBvimDf.gif NUDE is
not LEWD..Play Naked!! 

Re: CSVoltage

[cking001]

Think of it this way, Wayne.
The simplest cs process has been refined over the years to occur when
the current is limited to 1 ma or so, in distilled water, for however
long you want depending on strength desired.
~10 ppm has become a benchmark, so we'll talk about that.

One of the easiest ways to limit current is the current limiting
diode, so one of those rated at or near 1ma is ideal.

Voltage becomes pretty near irrelevant as long as you have enough to
raise the circuit current eventually to 1 ma.
The excess is dropped across the diode.

The beauty of the diode is that the end time can be prolonged for a
stronger brew. You don't run into the runaway current rise as the
solution conductivity increases. (real world must have a limit)

Ohms law and maxwells equations still apply, but it doesn't hurt the
head as much.
And it beats watching a meter and adjusting a pot for an hour or so.

Chuck
You've got to know the rules before you break them--otherwise it's no
fun

On 7/10/2007 12:22:19 PM, CWFugitt (c_wa...@earthlink.net) wrote:
 Morning Chuck,
 
  At 11:09 AM 7/10/2007, you wrote:
 
 Your message sounds real good and factual.
 
 I read it a few times and it made me think  grin
 
 Once you're at the 1 ma, the time to end of process will
  be the same.
 
 Sound like you are saying that 1 ma at 6 volt does the same work as 1 ma
 at 30 volts.   Interesting.
 Or, 1 ma at 52 volts. or even 1 ma at 110 VDC.
 
 On any non regulated power supply things happen we never discuss.
 There is a quality of power supplies called  Regulation Percentage.
 Of course at this low current, it likely does not enter into the picture.
 
 Oh well... nothing is as it seems sometimes.
 
 Wayne


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RE: CSVoltage

[CWFugitt]

Evening Chuck and Dan,

 At 01:07 PM 7/10/2007, you wrote:

 I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying,

However my two bit system don't limit current.

So, my question relates to that.  The current can increase slightly up to a 
point, without any problem,  can it not?  Seems I have in mind 2 ma or 
slightly less.


Plus, I use a starter solution of previous made CS much like Terry C. 
does.  This gets the show on the road much quicker.


I knew nothing when I started, but I did savvy Ohms Law and other things a bit.

I kept my log file relative to time and current basically because I was 
interesting, had the meters, and felt I needed to learn something.


From the very beginning, my CS worked miracles for many people so I never 
felt I needed to change anything.


Of course,  wise people change their mind and fools never do.

So, it has been several years, might be time for a change.

I guess I could do without my LED I have trusted so long.

Still, I work with so many bogus things, including computers,
I don't trust any machine or gadget unless I see some visual indication or 
meter indication that it is working right.


If my gadget fails or does anything wrong, I want to be the first to know, 
quickly.


I guess I should consider what generator I need to build to advance to a 
higher level.  I have event counters, ( very fancy ones ) both analog and 
digital input devices, and can write code to do anything I can dream up.


It sounds like a hill to climb, but tons of fun. I have 150 cantaloupes 
that need harvesting, if it will stop raining.  Will soon have 100 
watermelons or more.


I somewhat belive, leave well enough along, and if it is not broke, don't 
fix it.


I do watch my CS batches closely, and the timer as well.
typically, I am working with historical methods.

Plus, I like no power supply, no battery, and no transformer.

Any suggestions are welcome of course.  Tell me what you think.
I take criticism very well and I don't feel insulted if you disagree and 
tell me what you think.  I welcome new ideas of course.


Wayne


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Re: CSVoltage. CS Quality, Technical Stuff

[Kirsteen Wright]

On 7/10/07, CWFugitt c_wa...@earthlink.net wrote:


I see many beginners get carried away and worry themselves to death.   Not
necessary.  If they want to devote 1000's of hours studying all this,
fine.  That is their choice.

Otherwise they should know their ability and limitations.
Be happy, make CS, use it, and be glad they can do it.


I so agree. Most of the technical stuff on this list goes whoosh right
over my head. When I first started using CS I bought it online. Then,
despite being technologically challenged, thanks to some great and
easy instructions that I was sent, I managed to conect 3 9volt
batteries, attach the wires to 2 silver rods and make my own CS. Is it
the best I could get - I highly doubt it VBG but it works and it's
always available and yes I'm very glad it's there.

Kirsteen
--

I do note with interest that old women in my books become young women
on the covers... this is discrimination against the chronologically
gifted.
   -- (Terry Pratchett)


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CSVoltage

[Keithmj]

Hi all..Just a question about the voltage used to make CS. I have made about 1 
gallon of CS at 15ppm. Is 15ppm OK? Half with 2 batteries and half with 3 
batteries and I can tell no difference between the batches. I finally got my 30 
volt transformer that I am also going to be using but I am going to use diodes 
to reduce the milliamps down to around 1.5 or .5milliamps. My question is 
this..If the milliamps are so low then why do they recommend 27 to 31vdc? I can 
get the same milliamps using a 6volt 300milliamp transformer as I can with the 
30volt 1000milliamp transformer. What am I missing with the voltage issue? 
Everyone has different voltages they like. 
Also using two batteries I still have to stir the CS to keep it clear which is 
not a problem and I also found that if I heat the water to 42 degrees Celsius 
it doesn't take as long to get 15ppm, so does anyone else heat the water?  

Also will CS help a person with irritable bowel problems? 

Now that I switched from Incredimail to Outlook Express my posts might go thru 
and I thank everyone for their help that they have given me...Cheers..Keithmj

Re: CSvoltage

[Tony Moody]

Hi Debbie,
Well done, you are on the right track. 

Two things. the second one first:

First. 2 to 5 minutes is enough to make usable CS in your case. 
If you use tap water or if you add anything soluble to distilled water 
then the brew  times are very short, about 3 minutes per cupful. 
The process is likely to comes up to full speed immediately. 

On the other hand using very good quality distilled water the process 
starts off slowly and, if current controlled to about 1mA to 1.5mA, 
then takes about 1/2hour to 1 hour for the 300ml. This makes a finer 
longer lasting product 

Second. As a generality, ac voltage is not very useful when applied 
to making CS. AC will tend to strip silver and then immediately re-
plate the silver very rapidly but not produce much CS.
An ordinary transformer produces ac voltage. A dc output 
powersupply, which is a transformer plus some electronics,  should 
produce dc. So look for the dataplate 12vac or 12v~ will denote ac ; 
12dc or 12v= will denote dc. A powersupply for a printer, cellphone 
or something like that should be suitable. Personally I avoid mixing 
mains voltage and water experimentally. It is too easy to get a nasty 
shock. I always use battery power, which is intrinsically dc. 

The bulb should be a really low current device. a 6v 'grain of wheat' 
bulb  is usually 40 or 50mA. But is actually about 50 times too 'big' It 
should only just glow very dimly in the dark to indicate the correct 
range of current, 1.0 to 1.5 mA. Better in my opinion is a superbright 
LED which lights up very nicely.

Stirring. I use the rods as a stirrer or I swirl the glass occasionally. 
enough to get a bit of movement in the water. 
I also use an eggtimer to remind me to switch off if i'm multitasking. 
:)

I use a JFET circuit to current control automatically. You could 
approach George and Celia in Lowestoft, Suffolk.  
geo...@lucilleway.plus.com who carry stock of my devices in UK. 

Tony Moody

PO Box 24, 
Hogsback 5721, 
Eastern Cape, 
South Africa

On 28 Feb 2005 at 20:59, Debbie Cozens wrote:

 
 My generater is home made.
 Ive used a 12 volt transformer. and ive made a plastic box . Ive got
 two banana clips inserted in the top of the box holding a piece of
 . silver rod each...the positive banana clip is joined to a bulb
 and then back to the positive banana clip. I dont have a stirrer and
 was told to do the stiring with a spoon. Im not that clued up with all
 this and wish i was. My silver rods are about 2.5 mm thick and 10cm
 long. The amount of water i used was 300ml..in a jar...it was tap
 water as this was an experiment for the first time..but the next will
 be distilled water. How do i get current limiting??? Hope you can
 help. Debbie
 
 
 Dan Nave dn...@mn.nilfisk-advance.com wrote: 
 Offhand, I would say that you did not use distilled water, or you
 added an electrolyte to the water... 
 
 Or, you had a very small volume of water and the process ran
 away at a certain point since you did not have current
 limiting...
 
 Please give all the conditions of your setup including type and
 amount of water.
 
 
 
 
 CSvoltage
 
 From: Debbie Cozens (view other messages by this author) 
 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 04:05:43 
 
 --
 --
 
 Hello.
 i am new here and new to making CS.
 I am having a difficult understanding of the voltage and time
 needed to make a great batch od CS. I have a 12 volt
 trasformer...distilled water and i left my transformer 'on' with
 12 volts pumping through for 4 hours...my one silver rod was
 visibly thinner and! the water was quite brown/black with silver
 particles at the bottom..what did i do wrong?
 
 Debbie cozens
 
 
 
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 Silver.
 
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 List maintainer: Mike Devour 
 
 
 
 
 Debbie Cozens
 Homeschooling mother to Samantha 7 and Emily 4.
 http://debbieblog.blogdrive.com new chapter SA holiday!
 NATURAL PRODUCTS
 skincare,cosmetics,colloidal silver,kefir grains...etc
 KEFIR GRAINS £2-00 PP
 http://www.freewebs.com/naturalbeauty/
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Send instant messages to your online friends
 http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

Re: CSvoltage

[Ode Coyote]

  It ran away, went to town, got into a fist fight at the bar, did time in jail and was released, got married and had 5 kids, joined the circus and brought the elephant home for dinner.

You're lucky the transformer didn't catch fire. [It was a DC output, right?]

You'll have to watch a setup like that, like a hawk.
When to stop?  Sometime short of a mess.

Voltage doesn't matter that much.  Current is what got you. That's what ran away.

Ode

At 12:00 PM 2/28/2005 +, you wrote: 

Hello.
i am new here and new to making CS.
I am having a difficult understanding of the voltage and time needed to make a great batch od CS.
I have a 12 volt trasformer...distilled water and i left my transformer 'on' with 12 volts pumping through for 4 hours...my one silver rod was visibly thinner and the water was quite brown/black with silver particles at the bottom..what did i do wrong?
Debbie cozens

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

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Re: CSvoltage

[Ode Coyote]

At 08:59 PM 2/28/2005 +, you wrote: 

My generater is home made.
Ive used a 12 volt transformer. and ive made a plastic box . Ive got two banana clips inserted in the top of the box holding a piece of . silver rod each...the positive banana clip is joined to a bulb and then back to the positive banana clip.

##  The bulb is a sort of current limit but the limit is too high to be useful for anything but keeping fires from happening.
Put a potentiometer and ammeter in line with the hulb. [series connection] Adjust the dial on the ammeter by tweeking the potentiometer as the unit runs to not exceed about .5 -.8 millimaps for those short electrodes.
Put a volt meter in parallel so you can keep track of voltage drop.  This will give you a consistant end point.
Result?  manually operated current controlled generator.

Another way is to mount the electrodes between two rulers laid flat over the container opening, close at first , gradually moving them apart as the current increases to keep the current constant [use the ammeter to monitor]
When you run out of room, or reach a measurement on the ruler where you like the results...you're done.
You'll need a wide container.
And a lot of time.

Ode


I dont have a stirrer and was told to do the stiring with a spoon.
Im not that clued up with all this and wish i was.
My silver rods are about 2.5 mm thick and 10cm long.
The amount of water i used was 300ml..in a jar...it was tap water as this was an experiment for the first time..but the next will be distilled water.
How do i get current limiting???
Hope you can help.
Debbie


Dan Nave dn...@mn.nilfisk-advance.com> wrote: 
Offhand, I would say that you did not use distilled water, or you added
an electrolyte to the water... 

Or, you had a very small volume of water and the process ran away at
a certain point since you did not have current limiting...

Please give all the conditions of your setup including type and amount
of water.




CS>voltage

From: Debbie Cozens (view other messages by this author) 
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 04:05:43 



Hello.
i am new here and new to making CS.
I am having a difficult understanding of the voltage and time needed to
make a great batch od CS.
I have a 12 volt trasformer...distilled water and i left my transformer
'on' with 12 volts
pumping through for 4 hours...my one silver rod was visibly thinner and! 
the water was quite
brown/black with silver particles at the bottom..what did i do wrong?

Debbie cozens



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List maintainer: Mike Devour 



Debbie Cozens
Homeschooling mother to Samantha 7 and Emily 4.
http://debbieblog.blogdrive.com>http://debbieblog.blogdrive.com   new chapter SA holiday!
NATURAL PRODUCTS
skincare,cosmetics,colloidal silver,kefir grains...etc
KEFIR GRAINS  £2-00 PP 
http://www.freewebs.com/naturalbeauty/>http://www.freewebs.com/naturalbeauty/
 
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

No virus found in this incoming message. 
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. 
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.1 - Release Date: 2/27/2005 



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CSvoltage

[Dan Nave]

There are 2 main problems with making CS.  The first is that, since you
are using distilled water, the conduction starts out very slowly.  The
second is that, once the process gets going pretty well, the conduction
increases dramatically in a non-linear fashion (runs away).

The remedy in the first case (at the start of the process) is to use
relatively high voltage in order to increase the initial current flow. 
For some reason, many people feel that 30 VDC is the optimal voltage
level for this. You also don't have any real danger of electric shock at
this level.  Using high voltage to start the process reduces the time it
takes for the current to reach the optimal level. 

The optimal value for current level  (by general consensus) is 1
milliamp, or less, for  each square inch of electrode area.  I seem to
remember that about 4 to 5 inches of 12 gage wire will be approximately
1 square inch in surface area.  This is about what you have.  Therefore
you should shoot for 1 milliamp, or less, for the maximum current.

The remedy for the second case above (current increasing dramatically
in a non-linear fashion) is to use some method to limit the current. 
So, as the current rapidly approaches the maximum limit thanks to the
higher initial voltage, the voltage will have to be reduced so that the
current remains at the optimal value (1ma).  Once this point is reached,
one can calculate the rate (over a period of time) of silver going into
the solution with some degree of confidence. 

There are several ways to do this.  One is to put a current limiter
circuit in series with one of the leads.  An LM334 device (TO92 case
style) with a 70 ohm resistor connected from pin 2 to 3, (pin 1 to the
plus voltage and pin 3 to the [+] silver electrode) will regulate the
current at 1 ma.  

Another way is to put a resistor in series with one lead to reduce the
voltage.  As the current increases, the voltage drop across the resistor
will increase leaving less voltage across the water (E=I*R).  Therefore
the current won't be forced to increase to the same level as it would
have if the whole voltage continued to appear across the water...  For a
cheap and dirty calculation, I would say about 5K ohms for a 10 volt
source.  You can leave the resistor out of the circuit until the current
has increased to the 1 ma level, then clip it in series with one lead.

You should at least invest in a cheap voltmeter.  Preferably one that
has the capability to measure current in milliamps as well.  You can
also measure the volts dropped across a known value series resistor and
calculate the current using Ohm's law.  I=E/R ,  Current equals Voltage
divided by Resistance.  Therefore, 1 volt dropped across a 1K ohm series
resistor will equal 1 milliamp.  

In lieu of any of this, using your setup, run for 30 minutes to one
hour in one to two cups of distilled water until you see some fuzzy
buildup on the electrodes.  Remove the electrodes and wipe them off with
a clean paper towel without contaminating them with finger oils etc. 
Put them back in the solution and run for the same general amount of
time until you get the buildup again.  Clean the electrodes and enjoy
your CS...

Dan



Re: CSvoltage

From: Debbie Cozens (view other messages by this author) 
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:05:13 



My generater is home made.
Ive used a 12 volt transformer. and ive made a plastic box . Ive got
two banana clips inserted
in the top of the box holding a piece of . silver rod each...the
positive banana clip is
joined to a bulb and then back to the positive banana clip.

I dont have a stirrer and was told to do the stiring with a spoon.
Im not that clued up with all this and wish i was.
My silver rods are about 2.5 mm thick and 10cm long.
The amount of water i used was 300ml..in a jar...it was tap water as
this was an experiment
for the first time..but the next will be distilled water.

How do i get current limiting???
Hope you can help.
Debbie

Dan Nave  wrote:
Offhand, I would say that you did not use distilled water, or you
added
an electrolyte to the water... 

Or, you had a very small volume of water and the process ran away at
a certain point since you did not have current limiting...

Please give all the conditions of your setup including type and amount
of water.




CSvoltage

From: Debbie Cozens (view other messages by this author) 
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 04:05:43 



Hello.
i am new here and new to making CS.
I am having a difficult understanding of the voltage and time needed
to
make a great batch od CS.
I have a 12 volt trasformer...distilled water and i left my
transformer
'on' with 12 volts
pumping through for 4 hours...my one silver rod was visibly thinner
and!
 
the
 water was quite
brown/black with silver particles at the bottom..what did i do wrong?

Debbie cozens

CSvoltage

[Debbie Cozens]

Hello.
i am new here and new to making CS.
I am having a difficult understanding of the voltage and time needed to make a 
great batch od CS.
I have a 12 volt trasformer...distilled water and i left my transformer 'on' 
with 12 volts pumping through for 4 hours...my one silver rod was visibly 
thinner and the water was quite brown/black with silver particles at the 
bottom..what did i do wrong?
Debbie cozens

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

CSvoltage

[Dan Nave]

Offhand, I would say that you did not use distilled water, or you added
an electrolyte to the water...  

Or, you had a very small volume of water and the process ran away at
a certain point since you did not have current limiting...

Please give all the conditions of your setup including type and amount
of water.




CSvoltage

From: Debbie Cozens (view other messages by this author) 
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 04:05:43 



Hello.
i am new here and new to making CS.
I am having a difficult understanding of the voltage and time needed to
make a great batch od CS.
I have a 12 volt trasformer...distilled water and i left my transformer
'on' with 12 volts
pumping through for 4 hours...my one silver rod was visibly thinner and
the water was quite
brown/black with silver particles at the bottom..what did i do wrong?

Debbie cozens



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Re: CSvoltage

[Debbie Cozens]

My generater is home made.
Ive used a 12 volt transformer. and ive made a plastic box . Ive got two banana 
clips inserted in the top of the box holding a piece of . silver rod 
each...the positive banana clip is joined to a bulb and then back to the 
positive banana clip.
I dont have a stirrer and was told to do the stiring with a spoon.
Im not that clued up with all this and wish i was.
My silver rods are about 2.5 mm thick and 10cm long.
The amount of water i used was 300ml..in a jar...it was tap water as this was 
an experiment for the first time..but the next will be distilled water.
How do i get current limiting???
Hope you can help.
Debbie


Dan Nave dn...@mn.nilfisk-advance.com wrote:Offhand, I would say that you did 
not use distilled water, or you added
an electrolyte to the water... 

Or, you had a very small volume of water and the process ran away at
a certain point since you did not have current limiting...

Please give all the conditions of your setup including type and amount
of water.




CSvoltage

From: Debbie Cozens (view other messages by this author) 
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 04:05:43 



Hello.
i am new here and new to making CS.
I am having a difficult understanding of the voltage and time needed to
make a great batch od CS.
I have a 12 volt trasformer...distilled water and i left my transformer
'on' with 12 volts
pumping through for 4 hours...my one silver rod was visibly thinner and
the water was quite
brown/black with silver particles at the bottom..what did i do wrong?

Debbie cozens



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List maintainer: Mike Devour 




Debbie Cozens
Homeschooling mother to Samantha 7 and Emily 4.
http://debbieblog.blogdrive.com   new chapter SA holiday!

NATURAL PRODUCTS
skincare,cosmetics,colloidal silver,kefir grains...etc
KEFIR GRAINS  £2-00 PP 
http://www.freewebs.com/naturalbeauty/
 








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CSVoltage source vs load; was Re: CSAnswer to Catherine, warning to Mike Monett...

[cvincer]

The batteries in series is not a straight series circuit.  The reason is 
that there are voltage sources in series.  The less charged battery acts as 
a load and the more charged batteries act as sources.  The less charged 
battey acts as a resister and would then consume power and dissipate it as 
heat.  The current would still be going in the same direction, but it would 
heat up the less charged battery.


Mike, does this sound right? 

I'm not an engineer, but I was an electrician in the Navy, and am at this 
moment taking a break from preparing to teach basic electrical theory to 
students where I work.  This differnece between sources and loads is 
precisely what I have to keep clear to my students.  The big lead acid 
batteries display this characteristic if one cell is below the charge of the 
rest of the bank for some reason.  It can be a problem. 

Now with parrallel batteries, I could see the charge effect which would also 
produce heat for a different reason (different chemical reaction in reverse 
of the reaction during discharge). 

Vince 

Mike Monett writes: 


url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60591.html
Re: CSAnswer to Catherine, warning to Mike Monett...
From: Marshall Dudley
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:03:31 


   How could the current flow backwards when you have cells in series
   and none  are  backwards. If it reveresed in one of  the  cells it
   would have to reverse in all the cells, and energy would  be going
   into all the cells, which would require an external  power source.
   It is  physically  impossible. If you find a way, let  me  know, I
   could use a free energy machine. 

  Marshall, 


  I know what your mental block is, and I'm trying to figure out a way
  around it. 


  Let's pretend one of the batteries is dead. The current in  a series
  circuit is everywhere the same. 


  Then it  doesn't  matter what the original polarity  of  the battery
  was. It is now just a chemical cell. 


  In a  battery, the current flows though the electrolyte in  the form
  of ions, not as electrons. 


  The current that is flowing through the circuit is now  the opposite
  of the  original process that gave the battery energy, and  the ions
  now go in the direction that charges the battery in reverse. 

  This generates gas, which the battery is not designed to handle. 

  If this doesn't help, why don't you write Energizer and ask them? 

Best Regards, 


Mike Monett




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Re: CSVoltage source vs load;

[Mike Monett]

url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60602.html
CSVoltage source vs load;
was Re: CSAnswer to Catherine, warning to Mike Monett...
From: cvincer
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:25:27

   The batteries  in  series is not a  straight  series  circuit. The
   reason is  that  there  are voltage sources  in  series.  The less
   charged battery acts as a load and the more charged  batteries act
   as sources.  The less charged battey acts as a resister  and would
   then consume  power  and dissipate it as heat.  The  current would
   still be  going  in the same direction, but it would  heat  up the
   less charged battery.

   Mike, does this sound right?

  Yes, what  you  say is true. But as an instructor,  you  have  to be
  careful of falling into traps.

  When these  occur, you can be correct and argue youself blue in the
  face.

  Your students will not believe you.

  You have  to  ask  them questions and let  them  figure  it  out for
  themself.

  When they arrive at the answer, they  will think they thought of it 
  themself and you are a very dumb instructor.

  That's fine. Just smile. You have done your job.

  They are thinking, and that is the only thing that counts.

  Now to apply this philosophy to my own case

Best Regards,

Mike Monett


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