Re: [RCSE] Removing Hinge Tape Glue
Try isopropyl alcohol as it isnot bad. I have also tried the hand cleaner 'Orange" Chris - Original Message - From: Maurice Podder To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: [RCSE] Removing Hinge Tape Glue I used to use mineral spirits to remove hinge tape glue, when my cores were white foam, with no problem. The first time I tried mineral spirits with pink foam I found it eats it. Any suggestions on something safe for pink, blue, and spider foam? Maurice
Re: [RCSE] walking glider as seen on National Geographic channel
Go to the Aerovironment Web site for a link to the plans. Chris - Original Message - From: Moni Levy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:08 AM Subject: [RCSE] "walking glider" as seen on National Geographic channel Hi group , A week ago a saw on the TV a program about all kind of flying gliders (one big solar wing etc.). What facinated me was a man that has built a small flying wing glider. He just released it from above the head level and walked underthe small delta generating lift (and steering the model) only with his hands positined perpendicular and under the wing. He explained a bit that if he keeps his hands under the nose of the "aircraft" it will nose up and slowdown etc etc. Great stuff , want to try it by myself . If somebody has any info/plans/links of this kind of models please help me Thank You, Moni
Re: [RCSE] Re: VISALIA - ONLY 1 CLASS ALLOWED???
Larry, You have to recall that last year you got my entry 3 weeks AFTER the contest was flown. It was sent on the Monday, and Priority mail. So much for the postal service! Chris Adams - Original Message - From: Larry Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:40 PM Subject: Fw: [RCSE] Re: VISALIA - ONLY 1 CLASS ALLOWED??? Larry TaylorKF6JBG E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web http://home.earthlink.net/~cvrcsoaring/cvrc.htm CD for Visalia Fall Soaring Festival 6th and 7th Oct. 2001 - Original Message - From: Larry Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jack Strother [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: VISALIA - ONLY 1 CLASS ALLOWED??? That is correct NO EARLY ENTRIES. At 6 minutes after Mid-Night AUG 1st I sent out the last posting .Some people get up early to make it to the post office. I was just making fun about thje time. I did get mail one year, when Sunday was on the first. I did have entries come from a local town where a club member there was working for the Post Office. They were the only ones that had the post mark of the first. I have had NO early entries this year 2001. I did get one that was 2 weeks eartly last year. I called him and told him that We cannot take early entries. It would not be fair to every one else. He mailed an entry on the first and was in the contest.. In the note below where things that had happen in the past..Not this year.. Larry TaylorKF6JBG E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web http://home.earthlink.net/~cvrcsoaring/cvrc.htm CD for Visalia Fall Soaring Festival 6th and 7th Oct. 2001 - Original Message - From: Jack Strother To: Larry Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: VISALIA - ONLY 1 CLASS ALLOWED??? I Thought we were not allowed to mail until today, for the POSTMARK At 09:06 PM 7/31/01 -0700, you wrote: No!! You may not fly in two classes. Only ONE.. If you are 62 and older you can also circle YES for the highest score trophy out of all classes combined. This is for the Gray Cup. You could win the Gray Cup and also a Class. I had a group put 8 entries in one envelope. They were all on the same channel. I had to pull 4 entries out of that envelope and send back. I already had 2 people in on that channel. I had 4 entries in an envelope and could only take one as the last entry, I had to pull 3 and send back the rest. I just didn't want that to happen again. So if you and your timer wanted to put there entry in one envelope you could. A father and his son/ dauther could. Or your best friend even. I just didn't want a whole club to be out of the contest. If you need to change class by the time the contest day starts, that will be no problem as long as you stay on the same channel that you are assigned. Please E-mail me if you have any more questions. I thought I had cleared things up from last year entry form. Larry TaylorKF6JBG E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web http://home.earthlink.net/~cvrcsoaring/cvrc.htm CD for Visalia Fall Soaring Festival 6th and 7th Oct. 2001 - Original Message - From: Russell, Mark (AZ75) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:13 AM Subject: VISALIA - ONLY 1 CLASS ALLOWED??? My timer and I have a difference of opinion. Can a single pilot fly more than one event at Visailia (e.g., OPEN and RES)? The entry form states: . . . MAIN CLASS: Circle One . . . but the form also states: Do not put more than two entries in a envelope . . . Can I fly in two classes?? --- Mark F. Russell RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: fibergalss
Dick, Where are you getting 100 ft rolls of glass? What does a roll run in $$? Thanks, Chris - Original Message - From: Dick Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Luddite! Quit whining and learn to build your own toys. As a downsized, early retiree type I have learned to cope with the cost of progress by building my own hlgs. If you are willing to invest in a gallon of epoxy, a $10 refrigerator compressor, 100 yards of 1.4 oz glass at sale prices, and can do your own design then you can at least do the hlg stuff at a very resonable price. A very good hlg can be built in under 25 hours for less than $30. The electronics add another $150 for a RCD-555, 2 CS20 servos, and a MPG-10 gyro. Don't fight progress, learn how to contribute to it. -- Dick Barker Seattle, WA - Turning HLG Around - http://www.eskimo.com/~dickb/UpLink.html Progress is a wonderful thing I am perturbed by the rapid escalation of technology in competitive soaring events in Hand Launch and RES, as well as the whole hand-tow phenomenon Hand launch is cool: I think the new trends in materials and new launch techniques are a great expression of creativity,Now, if I wanna win trophies, looks like I need to buy a gyro for my Discus-launched all carbon molded, helium-pressurized Hypershnitzel 2001HLG... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: IHLGF and BAD LUCK
Hi Ron, Mike, and all. I have to agree with Ron that some of the best times are had when pilots get together. I had not flown HLG competitively since Dave Thornburg's HLG contest at SULA, in LA, however I have been an advid follower of the designs while having a family. Last Decemeber when I mumbled as we drove past Poway and said Hey, this is where the IHLGF is held in June, my wife asked why I have not gone to compete? My reply was it was on our Anniversary!. Well, to make a long story even longer she said why not go this year. So I went. Guess I owe something big time! I have to reply to all that you do not need to have the most advanced glider to do well, you need to know how to fly it and where to look for lift. With apologies to Jerry Krainock, who took 6th, he would admit that he is not in the best of shape to go after the young guns, as well as the experienced. Yet Jerry was flying a composite built up plane!. Yes, It had ribs, and open framework, covering was plastic with alot of CF in spars etc.. The fuse was CF molded, however when you are in the company of people who do it all the time, CF work is not hard. Tauil surfaces were the lightest and cheapest I have seen, yet strong and durable. For me, I had to balance building planes with 2 other jobs, so my time was limited. While not the best of planes, I build 2 composite ships, one with flaps, which had be eloquently described by Joe as having a great amount of flutter. (BTW, both Joe and Gordon were brutal, yet funny with their comments to me! :-) ) But my other ship flew better than any other HLG that I had made previuosly, and yet it was moderately competitive. (I didn't take last!) The real issue is pilot practice. With some people this may come more natural than others, but for others it is more work. A built up ship may not have been able to compete in height, but it could compete in sink.I think of it this way, if you throw to say 120 ft, but have a sink rate of 1.5 ft/sec then your air time may be 80 seconds. However, if your sink rate is 1.1 ft/min and you throw to 90 ft then your air timemay 81 seconds. I saw both schools of thought at the contest. In the early AM the Raptors had to throw high to get times, yet others could throw lower to get the same times. There was a balance of ranging for thermals versus not being able to get out of down air. I have to agree with Ron, Knowing that this wasmy first time at an advanced contest in years, I went with the expectations of finding out what people were doing, and building techniques. I took over 150 digital pictures toward this goal, and have alot of notes regarding how to build, mold, control the planes. You do not need a gyro, as larger tail surfaces do control the wobble better. However for the competitor, placing a gyro on the plane could yield an altitude gain of 10-15 ft. For low throwers this gain is a high percentage. I also looked at design failures. These failures can be more attributed to pilot induced issues rather than design issues. So I, with my designs, may have to design a plane for my issues rather than general all around issues. Does weight make a difference, some may say yes, other no. But what we are after is always a compromise. I now my measurements will be looked at carfully. Maybe, just maybe, I will be able to build a HLG for next year starting now. I know what I would not do again. I would not go with just 2 planes. As for the exchange comments that composites are expensive, they are not.Definitely not. Dick Barker only mentioneda few items. Withvacuum bagging techniques you can build a wing easily in about 3 nights. If you build more than one, you can overlap what youdo. As for costs, I try to keep the cost of goods down. And so do the manmufacturers like Brian Buass. He and others would not be able to offer you such great ships without being able to make them in a short time. Labor is the expensive part not the materials. Oh well, so much for raving. I have started my CD and hopefully will have it done soon. Eventually I will be putting some of it on my web site, but the resolution will nt abe as great as having the pictures on CD. I hope to have a description of the contest and other trechnical stuff throughout, like control methods, shipping, launching techniques, etc. Thanks Ron and TPG for a very enjoyable contest. Thermals from a competitor on the 3rd page! Chris Adams
Re: [RCSE] ITLGF thoughts (long)
Hi Joe, Always Aim to please. When I get it straightened out perhaps I'll be up there with you guys. Thermals, Chris The planes on the field, in large part, were working very well. A few aileron planes had flutter on launch, which could really hurt the launch altitude. Flutter ran the gamut from Chris Adams aileron toy which had huge flutter, to my Encores, which showed a little buzz only when I really nailed the launch. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] IHLGF Question
Hi Marta, Glenn, At the IHLGF some people were talking of classes, mainlybecause they wanted some sort of separation due to performance. Some thought about opening the wingspan up, much like the original contests, while others were trhinking of 1 meter ships. Those talking 1 meter like the convenience but quickly talked about how they would have their own design problems for performance. I will be trying a new Micro with the techniques I learned. Chris Adams - Original Message - From: Marta Zavala [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: GRW [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] IHLGF Question thats a no no Glenn. Why having classes for the Ihlg competition? The nerve of some of us ignorant sportsman type flyers who have no idea about competing. I think I'll just go sail off the end of the earth now- Walter -Original Message- From: GRW [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:55 PM Subject: [RCSE] IHLGF Question I don't know if anyone has brought this up or if it's been covered but is there a possibility of having different classes at the IHLGF? One from DLG and one for JLGs? This way the javelin style will still live, and all of those planes people own won't go to waste. Just a thought. I bet you would see the big dogs fly both classes. Thanks Glenn W. Tri-Cities, WA __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: IHLGF, alot more
Hi Guys, Yes the gyro was an added factor but many of the flyers had ships that were designed NOT to require gyros! The gyros were only necessary for those planes that required corrections that the pilots and designer's could or did not handle. I took over 150 digital shots of most of the tomp 10 and more planes, took alot of measurements, and how the planes were constructed. Hope to have a CD ready soon. Perhaps people will be interested. There were many do'd and don'ts that need to be addressed with designs. No one mentioned that with the sidearm launches, planes like the Raptor were either delaminating skins, or tails were being blown apart. It was not limited to the Raptor, as MANY OTHERS did the same thing. This is NOT an attack on the Raptor!, Brian has designed an excellent ship! As with all plane designs there are many compromised, however Brian has put togtehr a very nice ship. What was interesting is the comparison of designs. As for launching, many might think Paul Anderson was launching high but I believe Phil Barnes with his Logics was beating most people. More Soon. It was a great contest. Chris Adams - Original Message - From: Dave Griffin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: F3J F3B List [EMAIL PROTECTED]; RCSG NZ Soaring [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:51 PM Subject: [FAIsoaring] IHLGF Hi Guys, I have just got back from the IHLGF at Poway San Diego Attached are photos of the top ten place winners. I am sorry I don't know all their names, But I can tell Joe won by a NARROW 8 points from Oleg, John, George Joy, Paul Anderson, Brian B', sorry I don't recall the next 2, then John Erickson was 9th, again I am not sure who was tenth. The contest was excellent, the air variable, conditions were cloudy yesterday and this morning, clear and about 25 this afternoon. About 75 contestants. And the latest hot item in the HLG world is.. Gyro stabilisation of rudders, cool. Regards Dave Griffin www.canterburysailplanes.co.nz RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: [RCSE] Hand Launch Wing dimples
Having just been at the IHLGF, the way to remove the finger dimples is to pour boiling water over the wing. Anoither way is to ake a wet paper towel and a monokote iron. Place the damp towel down and then monokote iron over it. I did it on my planes and it works extremely well.They look like new. Chris Yes the dimple thing like on golf balls does work. Bike racers are now showing up with dimples on their time trial helmets, as in the Giro. If you have an obscene thumbprint you want to remove you can remove at least some of it with a monokote iron. Careful now, if you go too hot you will make it larger/deeper. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] IHLGF results, Curious
Pat, I have to respond to your post. Yes there are only a few of us that BUILD our own gliders for Poway. The rest are bought. For me, I believe in building as much as flying. Those Designer's and BUILDERs at Poway we few. For example, there was Phil Pearson (Encore/MapleLeaf along with JW), Brian Buass (Raptor with JW), The BlueDarter people (TexasTwister), Dick Barker (UpLink), Bill Watson (Watson Sidewinder), Tom Hoopes (Whoas/Arius), Oleg (Taboo), Phil Barnes (Logics), John Aslplund (Modified Encore/with Jennings), Adam Weston (Ionosphere), Jerry Krainock (Own Design), and me , Chris Adams (Own Design). I may have missed a someone. However, when it is easier to buy a ship to fly at a fair price, then why not?? What is interesting is that Jerry Krainock took 7th with a composite open structure ship, as compared to foam for everyone else. And Jerry is in the Eagle class, compared to those who were able to launch high because they are in shape. So out of 80 or so pilots, there were only 12 designers for way over 200 airplanes at the field. The fun things were to watch the carnage!. With all the Raptors there, they had more than their share of carnage. Stabs were coming off, Linkages were breaking, noses were breaking, servos were coming loose, skins were bending or delaminating. No one ever mentions the real story, just the interesting things. No one mentioned that Yes, the person hit by a plane was during launch. It was a timer that got hit. No one mentioned that pilots walked in front of you while you were launching and you had to scamble to avoid hitting them, or yell at them to stop walking so you could launch. No one mentioned that timing errors occurred and separate timers are needed. No one mentioned that when people launched before the buzzer, they brought the whole group down when they stated in the rules that the pilots had to come down and relaunch as individuals, JUST like sailboat racing, and restart without the window restarting. Yes, a great contest, just the new launches are creating new issues which have to be resolved. I agree with John Erickson, a VERY good contest. In all, the contest is NOW a landing and groundtime contest rather than all flying. NOW the flying is becoming more a qualifier, much like the the TD contests. BTW, If you don't throw to 100' plus, you are sacraficing alot. Thermals, Chris Adams Guys, Why is it that we hear this same type of thread after every major contest? Nothing has changed in the 25 plus years I have been flying. The bottom line is the guys that go out and practice practice practice are the ones that win the contests. It also happens that the guys that put in the time to get good enough to win also happen to make the sacrifices necessary to buy the latest and greatest planes. Oh then there is poor ole Oleg flying that thing called Taboo that just happens to be his original design and probably did not cost him $1800 to build and equip. I am sure he probably spent more getting to the contest paying the entry fees and lodging and food than he spent on his planes. I am just guessing here, I do not know him personally. Joe W was flying planes he helped design and develop and yes Brian Buass charges $300+ for his planes but they are worth every penny when you look at the quality of plane he delivers to you. Years ago when I had time to practice all of the time, I was a whole lot more competitive with lesser planes than I am now when I do not get to go flying as much and I now own some of the top planes to have. I seem to remember flying against a guy by the name of Ron Stanfield from Arkansas who always flew original design Poly Floaters that used to kick butt on a regular basis against top pilots flying the best planes. Bottom line Ron flew a lot and flew the same plane until he knew it like the back of his hand. I guess what I am saying is it gets tiring hearing all the whining and crying about how much it cost to compete these days. It is no different than it has been all along and it will not be changing anytime soon. Go out and practice practice practice and see what happens. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised. JMHO, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS - Original Message - From: Mark Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bill Rose Haymaker [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] IHLGF results, Curious I guess competitive Hand Launch has progressed away from my pocketbook too. I can't see the practicality in having to buy a whole new collection of models every year to stay with the big guys. I'll keep designing them and building them but will probably just chuck them around for fun. Fun is what it has always been for me. My favorite way to fly. It's getting harder and harder to keep within my cost/fun equation in most any class anymore. sigh Mark --- Bill Rose Haymaker [EMAIL
Re: [RCSE] IHLGF
YES YES YES and I HAVE the pictures to show it! Darwin, the pictures I have are great! Seeing the Raptor perched on the wires , and how it landed is priceless! BTW, How much for NOT putting it on the Web? Chris - Original Message - From: Darwin N Barrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:05 PM Subject: [RCSE] IHLGF Hi All, I've got to chime in on this one. First, thanks to the many who put this contest together. Ron Schark, Tom Clarkson, the Condons, and the many other volunteers. Great job, you should be very proud. This is the one of the smoothest contests anywhere. Most importantly, despite the high level of competition, it is FUN Okay, I'll bring it out myself since it hasn't been brought up yet. I FLEW MY PLANE TO A PERFECT LANDING ON THE WIRES DURING THE FIRST ROUND There I was on the 55 second portion of ladder and was preparing to turn back to the field when plane stopped flying. Could have sworn I was 15 feet past the wires. What a bummer. After the round was over I had at least 5 people offer me planes to fly if I needed one. That is what this hobby is about. About the planes. The Raptor runs $325 (I think). Add 2 $20 servos a receiver and battery and your in the air for less than $450. Sure you can go higher but look at the top 10. Plus their were many more Raptors in the field. The Maple Leaf product was well represented as was the Twister and the Xterminator. Dick Barkers Uplink was flown by many as well. Throw in a few others and that is the field. I don't think you have to have anything super special. These are just everyday hand launchers. It is not like a moldy that you keep just for contest days. I certainly did not attend with any aspirations of winning or placing but for the comraderie that exists in this phase of the hobby. Those who have resisted coming need to reconsider. You will find no better group of people assembled from around the country to spend a couple of quality days of flying and fellowshiping. Really important is that most can go to work the next day still walking upright. The discus launch has changed things. Darwin N. Barrie Scottsdale AZ PS. Ron, please make sure the Round Table doesn't run out of beer next year. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Chris Adams
Hi Ray, Lot' so addresses get to me. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is what I used, but My nephew has used [EMAIL PROTECTED] gets to me also as I run the web site. During the workdays, try [EMAIL PROTECTED] What's Up?? Chris - Original Message - From: "Ray DiNoble" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 3:45 PM Subject: [RCSE] Chris Adams Looking for Chris's e-mail address. TIA Ray DiNoble GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Flywheel winch picture
Ron, Sorry I missed it. Thought I had added it. These late nights are killers. For those interested in the Flywheel winch take a look at the picture I have. Sorry the resolution is not better, but it is a VERY old photo. Try: http://www.scrollsander.com/Scroll_Images/FlywheelWinch.jpg Chris - Original Message - From: "Ronald L Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [FAIsoaring] and [RCSE] F3J Great Rule! Chris, Where is the winch picture ? Thanks, Ron Adams.. no relation ? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Micro Servos and HLG
Matt, Don't get misled by the aileron rumors. I have seen and flown the new Maple Encores and we throw them hard. They are aileron versions. The flutter that I have seen has been on very weakly built ailerons, and the one that was fluttering was actually broken. The reasons they may flutter is that the speed is up at launch. Also, I am building a HLG with ailerons and do not expect any issues. Teh reason people are going to polys are for the sink rate. Besides, if you flew aileron ships you know that any airofil changes affect the sink rate alot. In practice, the ailperon ships have problems at very slow speeds because the ailerons can be more draggy and cause yaw rather than assis tin the turn. Polys do not seem to have that problem. I belieive you will see alot of ailerons ships coming out soon. As for strength the polys do crack at the dihedral breaks in stong throws. Ailerons don't have a outer dihedral breaks so obviously you would not expect them to have a problem. As for tail strutures issues, yet for very rigid tails, but also we are designing planes that do not have the problem. As for lateral stresses, there are soem at the wing mounts. Some Europeans I have heard have had nylon bolts shear off. Again that may just be a rumor. As for Discus blowing away the height. yes. I was one who doubted the overhand launch heights here on the exchange. We found we were launching above 100 ft. I now see people who could not get over 70 feet overhand getting over 100 easily discus style. Some say they are getting 130 ft, and I beleive that as I have seen it close to that from those who are not the best athletes. As a freind put it, Phil Pearson, :Discus launches are like standing next to a rotary mower which has no protective shroud." Good Luck, Chris Adams -Original Message- From: Matt Lydon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tim Vandenheuvel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, March 17, 2001 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Micro Servos and HLG Primary reasonor so I'm told, I don't own a discuc lauch yet...is structural. The wing needs to be more solidy built than usual in order to take the lateral stresses, and as discus is 'new', there aren't many designs out yet. As an aside, there are also tail structure issues with discus launch, although that wouldn't effect the aileron/no aileron issue. Also, most of the experts around here claim 2 channel to be just as competetive as 4 when it comes to hand launch. look out for a debate-storm on that last one Matt - Original Message - From: "Tim Vandenheuvel" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Micro Servos and HLG Let me correct myself. I meant to say: Why aren't the aileron ships as common to the discus launch style Tim From: "Matt Lydon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Brian Turner" [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] Micro Servos and HLG Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:18:45 -0500 Brian, If you're in the market to buy, you should seriously consider Discus launch. The recent buzz is that the're blowing away 'regular' HLG's. However, MOST of these are 2 channel ships. Matt - Original Message - From: "Brian Turner" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 12:35 PM Subject: [RCSE] Micro Servos and HLG I believe I wrote earlier talking about purchasing a HLG. I am interested in competing with one. I want one with ailerons... my question is this I see recommendations for HS50s or CS10 servos which are rated @ 7-10oz of torque. I do want to keep my plane light. Are these servos strong enough to worth the wait savings in a 4 servo HLG? TIA, Brian Montgomery, AL _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] lay-up schedules
Hi Tim, This is a major subject as I have one in the works also. From those people I have asked the fuses vary in weights. Here are some of the replies: 2 layers of 1.3 oz Kevlar for about a 1.1 oz pod. 1 layer of 3oz crowfoot glass, can be as low as 8g. 5 oz carbon prepreg (2 layers) in my mold. 25 gm 1 layer of 3 oz satin and 1 layer of 1.7 oz kevlar from the wing pylon to nose, 25K carbon tow runs from the tailboom to the nose, both sides on the "equator", flattened and sandwiched between the FG and Kevlar. Pod weighs 0.75 ounces. 1.4 oz FG with a brutal layup adding another 3 oz FG layer on the inside, with the weight going to 1.2 oz 2 layers of 1.7oz kevlar, with a 3rd applied just in the nose area. And mine: 2 x 3.2 oz cloth, 30 grams 2 x 2oz glass , 20 g A Special Thanks to all those who originally responded to my inquiry. As for wings, The Mapleleaf Encore series use a basic 1.2 oz kevlar at 45 degrees top and bottom of the wing, with 1.5 oz cloth reinforcement at the tipe for TLGm and a center panel section of another layer of kevlar, with three or so 1/4" widths of CF tow top and bottom, and a kevlar leading edge wrap. For the new Raptor by Brian Buass at RaptorRC.com, the wing is 2 layers of 1.5 at 45 degress with CF tow, I beleive. There is a big difference here as the TLGs need more reinforcement at the tip for the hand holding. Hope this helps, Chris -Original Message- From: Tim Vandenheuvel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: [RCSE] lay-up schedules Hi all, I have some qeustions about lay-up schedules for a HLG. First, I am considering an aileron ship, whats the lightest, (relative to strength), lay-up I could use? IE, white foam, blue foam, pink foam, and how many layers of what weight clothe? Second, the fuse is a pod and boom, similar to the logic and focus (this plane would have been cutting edge if I finished it in 1997 when I built the mold for the fuse), what is a good combination for the fuse? Again, how many layers of what fabrics? I have layed up 7 or 8 fuses, but haven't found one that I'm really impressed by. BTW, I am looking for the flying weight to be around 8-9oz. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Tim _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] small-light, you want small light???
These might be quite good, but when I investigated them over a year ago the stepper controller was very large compared to the motor. Chris -Original Message- From: Bill Johns [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:59 AM Subject: [RCSE] small-light, you want small light??? At the risk of driving the price for small and light through the roof, check out: http://www.rmb-group.com/smoovy.com/default.html and dream a bit. Bill RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] competitive nostalgia?
Bill, I recall Mark Smith using screw top 35 mm film cannisters to hold the lead shot in the Windfree. When I had a ship like that I placed tubes that could be loaded from the side, like a wingpin, and then a piece of tape held them in. Simple. Chris -Original Message- From: Bill Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: [RCSE] competitive nostalgia? This upcoming flying season I plan to fly a couple of nostalgia planes (a Windfree and an Olympic 99) and want to get them as competitive as possible. I'm thinking ballast. The Windfree flies well and penetrates reasonably well, but at 26 oz AUW, she's a floater. I'm thinking that a few ounces of ballast will help in the wind. The question is "how to add ballast"? With the plug-in wings there is no "under the wing" area to use. Two possibilities: drill the (assembled and covered) wings to insert 1/2" diameter ballast tubes. Lead rod, 1/2" in diameter weighs 16 oz/foot and 6" per side is do-able. But I don't know how much this will weaken the thin wing ribs. Another possibility is to make ballast compartments in the fuse, accessible from the top and on the CG, for the ballast. I think I can add some 17-18 ounces that way. But I don't know how much that would weaken the fuse. And lastly, I could bolt on a pair of "ballast pods" on the sides of the fuse, under the wing. Least intrusive, but DRAGGY. The Oly 99 will be easy to add ballast to: it has a HUGE area under the wings for ballast boxes. The downside of the old Oly 99 is that she just doesn't like windy conditions with that ole' undercambered wing. Would ballast help, or should I just plan to fly that ship in calm air? I've not finished the restoration on the Oly yet, and I have no idea what her flight characteristics will be. What sort of target wing loading should I ballast for? If I start with a wing loading of 5 oz/ft^2, I should ballast to what, 7 oz/ft^2 and 10oz/ft^2 ? Thanks, --Bill RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Truly Daunting landing Task
I think they did an excellent job considering that they do not have to use CA, wing panels, Zagi tape and lead to keep it together. It still works. Chris -Original Message- From: Brett Jaffee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: James C Deck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: RCSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Truly Daunting landing Task James C Deck wrote: Did anyone notice the feat accomplished by landing the space probe on an asteroid? Though described as a "dork", I find even accomplishing it with a 17 minute lag time truly impressive. Well, yes, but its not exactly like radio control. They dont move the "sticks" and then wait for a response 17 minutes later (which would also mean you wouldnt actually see a resonse for 34 minutes). The whole sequence is pre-calculated and uploaded to the spacecraft. After that, they cross their fingers! Still, an impressive feat. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Tip Launch Web Page
Bill, I am hoping to do that soon like my MHG page. Are people interested??? Chris http://www.scrollsander.com/ChrisSoaring.htm -Original Message- From: Bill Rose Haymaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, February 04, 2001 9:17 AM Subject: [RCSE] Tip Launch Web Page Has anyone compiled a list of tip launch/hlg web pages? If so could you please forward them to me. I have already viewed the Texas Twister and Polecat. Are there others? Thanks Bill RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] MHGPreserving the Javelin Launch
Dick, I take exception to your MHLG comments. If you are looking for a plane that performs well then stcik with the 60" ships you have. By getting down to 29.5 " you are entering another reallm of aerodynamics and design. You have to design for that arena, much like that you had to design for when you went from unlimited HLG of any wingspan down to 60" . You might be thinking the tunnel vision way that was once prevelant in HLG circles that you could not get them top perform. YES, I agree that MHLG does not perform as well, but my Itch has sure provide me and many other will hours of fun. Each plane perfoms differently. Personally My Itch (whihc isn't great) is a way better perfomer than the dragonette. When up agains the Gnat, we had 2 philosophies going, and while I launched higher, he had a better sink rate. We would bounce off the groud at the same time. I started a HLG design 60" to try it, and I am considering anopther micro because I know I can get a better plane. Besides, I thought Micros were better for launching for my arm, overhand, and I could launch as high. Now I will try discus with a micro. I think that 21 MHLG designers are NOT wrong. Just that the regular 60" HLG are in your league, not ours. Thermals, Chris :-) -Original Message- From: Dick Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, February 03, 2001 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [RCHLG] [RCSE] Preserving the Javelin Launch Mark, Many clubs can't field one hlg class and you want to go to 2? If you insist, I would strongly suggest you go with a 1 meter JL class in place of the 3/4 m mosquito class. A 1 meter hlg is a lot more fun for both beginners and experts than a 3/4 meter hlg. The mosquito class has been around for 3 years now and I can only remember one demo round that was flown in a contest. It just didn't make the cut when people started doing the time and effort vs fun tradeoff. -- Dick Barker Seattle, WA - Turning HLG Around - With the world moving inexorably to the Tip Launch, Preserving the Javelin Launch in some way may be worthwhile.. Rather than have some "non-TL" class, a natural way to preserve the JL is to push the 0.75m Mosquito as an official second HLG class... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Maple Leaf prices very low
If you think that $450 is too much for a small HLG plane then think again. This thread always comes up whe new planes of whatever are out and people want to compete. Personally I thin it is well worth it, and I do not buy the planes, I try to build my own. If you look at all you out there who have good jobs, think about how much per hour you make. The take out the Rd expenses, and the costs of the materials etc, you will find that you are getting away cheap!!! How much does a person at $50K a year make per hour? Manuy make more, many less but this number can work cor calculations. That is before taxes. For each dollar the plane costs, AND assume direct from Mfder buying, you take off say 30% for profit that runs the CO, marketing, and other expenses. You take 30% for profit if you ARE LUCKY, and you are down to 40% to make the plane. For those of you who want to flame me with corrections, this allotment is way off the mark because you say it differently, but it gets close. Now at 40% of $450 you have $180. So think that all this is used for your labor. How long do you thin it takes to make the plane? Not counting the making the molds etc. Say YOU make $20/hr, you have to alot 9 hours of time. At $25 it is 7.2 hours, at $10 it is 18 hours. So how much time does it take? Well, you casn use up 10 or more hours very quickly. Personally it takes me 1.5 hours to wash, wax, cut cloth, and lay up a micro HLG fuse. Then another 30 minutes to clean it up, when done. So 2 hours per fuse, minumum. If you thin you can lay up more per alotted time, you can't. There is only so much per hour you can ay up. Now look at the wing. Set up and cut cores, match them up, prep them lay up the wing,. Now thin of the packaging, and all the little items. So now break out the costs of materials, clean up, waste, etc. THEY are lucky they make $10/hr, if that. the the government takes it's share of the profits (both in profit and the IRS taxes) and there is nothing left. I think you should run like a bandit if you buy one of those ships. Since I like to design I have parts around for people to buy. Why, because I like to see people have the opportunity to try my fuses, and I see what I need to try to design next. Personally, I like to fly and keep it cheap, so if HLG contests go the way of F3B, I will stay away from them for competiton since you are going to need the best to perform with them. I'll still to the fun like so many other have. This is one of the reasons why F3B is not as popular in the US as perhaps other places. Thermals, Chris Adams RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] The end of HLG as we know it
Bill, Yes, that is the way it is going to go in my very humble and cheap opinion. It happened in F3B, and in the typical higher performance Open class at all the major contests. I went bacK to RES and it is calmer, and less expensive, but just as rewarding. And to throw in the FIRST comment on this, you will see the flights for HLG not getting longer, but putting some other sort of other non-flying requirment on it. Much like the old TD contests that had qualification landings, the advent of you getting duration times most of the time will make it necessary for the CD to come up will some other way for people to win a contest. It WILL get down to seconds, so the TLGs may actually be balanced by JLG (javilen launched gliders) and seconds will count. We may actually see something like Free Flight that says we continually have to max until we are eliminated. In any case, I predict (and hope) the Micros may be the next challenge for those of us that look at performance and then it too will go the way of the TD contest. It would be interesting to have a class like cargo (see freeflight tasks). Thermals, Chris Adams -Original Message- From: Bill Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, February 04, 2001 9:57 AM Subject: Re: Re: [RCSE] Discus throw/Maple Leaf That's true. I'm not trying to be negative here, but are we not getting to the point where only the rich can compete, uh, competitively? --Bill On Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:34:39 -0600 Pat McCleave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric, You make many valid points here about the value of the Encore. One you did not make is that, it must be worth the price they are charging cause if you want one the waiting list is several months out. That tells me that there are plenty of people out there willing and ready to fork out the big bucks to fly one. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS - Original Message - From: Eric Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Discus throw/Maple Leaf All, Pricey though-450.00. Yes that is 450.00!!! Thats a lot for a HLG, especially if it cant be used w/discus launch as it seems that is the way to get the highest launches. First off... it can be used as a Discus launch airplane. One of the co-designers of the Encore, Phil Pearson, was one of the early pioneers of the side-arm throw. Anybody else out there think it CRAZY to pay $450 for a less than 60" span HLG? I though $250 - $300 was nuts, let alone $450. I think it is absolutely not crazy at all, even though I can't afford it, I do understand why it costs what it does. The Maple Leaf airplanes are hand built, as are all of the composite aircraft that we fly. And not only hand built, but hand built in the US, where labor isn't quite as cheap as the places where our shiny molded birds are made. All of the Encores are constructed with Kevlar skins and all kevlar fuselages. Hint: Kevlar is a horrid bitch to work with! It is a wonderful material for handlaunch structures, but no one uses it on anything but fuselages because it is so tough to work with (AKA Time Consuming). (Also guys, don't forget that the materials used in these airplanes aren't cheap) Also, the quality that the builders of the Encore put into one of their airplanes is wonderful... the LEs are perfect, the fuselages are absolutely bulletproof and very light, and the tails are light and straight. So, if that were what went into an airplane, that I was buying, I'd have no problem paying over $300, or even $350 for it. But then take into account that Maple Leaf takes the time to do some huge assembly steps for you. When you receive the airplane, the fin is attached to the boom, the elevator pushrod is premade and prebent for the T-tail, and all is preinstalled into the boom... oh, and the rudder is pre-hinged also! Don't forget the precut and living-skin hinged flapperons, too. How many US airplanes do you know that can say that? I'm not saying that the airplane is cheap, or is very affordable, because it's not. But just like in any other business, if you want the best, you have to pay for it. Thermals, Eric Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] MLD Webmaster RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Nosecone Fuses
Check out my pages at http://www.scrollsander.com as I have shown it done with 2 methods. Chris' -Original Message- From: Bruno Pavani [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 5:05 PM Subject: [RCSE] Nosecone Fuses Hi there guys, anyone there with any page/info on making molds/fuses with nosecone? [ ]'s Bruno Pavani ICQ 2377003\__|__/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] O PT-8238 Brazil RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] CONTESTS and LSF LEVELS
So you want to have more challenging Thermal flights with some recognition,
then whay not go after national and world records? From my undertsnading
they wil count as a contest win for any of the LSF levels, at least way back
when I thought I heard that question and answer.
And BTW, I have understand completely the pain one has trying to get
contest wins for Level 5. Back when Baxter (#1) and Work (#2) finished they
wee battleing me since they did not know who was going for the first one,
rather that someone was making the effort. I FINISHED the goal and return 2
weeks before they did, and had I not been missing 2 contest wins, well,
that's another story. I then went away to college for 3 years, grad school
in Wyoming, way away from contests and enough people, did not have the funds
to travel, so had to wait. Returned to LA and won the first 2 contests I
entered to finally cinch the level, #11.
LSF is what YOU make of it and nobody owes you anything, It has been one of
the best programs for over 30 years! And I should know, I have sat for 3-4
8 hours sessions for those who followed.
Thermals,
Chris Adams
LSF 348 LvL V #11
-Original Message-
From: Paul Rickie Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, December 11, 2000 11:36 PM
Subject: [RCSE] CONTESTS and LSF LEVELS
Paul Ferguson posted to Jim Thomas in regards to 'Contests and LSF Levels,'
"Perhaps we need to leave the existing levels alone and add parallel
'non-contest' levels with more challenging tasks."
SOUNDS LIKE!! LSF AWARDS with a nasty " * " attached to me :-) !! Maybe,
Paul, as a disinterested party you could help the judges somewhere USA come
up with a scientific way to divine dimples :-) !
Sorry! I couldn't resist :-) !! I plan to compete in one international and
two national or regional contests in a busman's holiday to my Homeland
U.S.A. next summer. Is this language lost on you!? It means having FUN
while you are on business! What is the difference between what I will be
engaged in and Gordy!? With Gordy the FUN comes first :-) !! God is MY
boss!! My criteria for participation is similarly expressed as a principle
through the use of reiteration as is the laws of investing in real
estate (1. Location; 2) Location; 3) Location!!!). Expressly, "1) FUN; 2)
FUN; 3) FUN; 4) FUN !", the first LAW of RC Soaring instituted and
established by JW! I don't expect to win a thing this summer but new
friends--I will try harder, flying in the Eagle Class at the IHLGF, but
RCHLG pilots are getting older (fortunately Joe is still too young to
compete against me) and the competition is gett'n tougher at my (age) level
:-) ! Not that it didn't start out that way, the first year of the Eagle
Class ('98) I had to fly against the TPG's Scharck and Don Richmond. Still
as the AWAY Champ, GRACIOUS Ron (not to be confused with Don) awarded the
First Place Plaque to me which I proudly display; the NEAREST I will
probably EVER get to anything like it!? My third place the same year at
the MidSouths in HL Golf against the likes of Jim Bacus-Bruce Davidson
Company didn't get me a thing besides hearing my name blared out with a
bullhorn--and I ran the whole course; I think they mentioned that--I
thought I at least deserved a JR or Futaba decal!! Go figure :-) !!
It has been a long while since this thread has made the round--so be
it! As one who had hoped for a career in aviation and passed from true HL
gliders (NOT to be confused with RCHLG) and hand tow gliders with
dethermalizers to full scale while in college, I of course became
acquainted with the FAI international soaring awards. When I was drawn
into RC Soaring I soon became acquainted with the LSF program and
recognized the value of it for the RC Soaring enthusiast. I began my own
effort to bring it to Japan and later was ready to help one of our Japanese
glider-guiders (a better idea) establish it here. Except for the initial
phases, however, it is not a realistic program for Japan! None the less,
any changing of the rules would tarnish its metal!
As Rob Glover posted:
"The LSF is Not going to change it's program.
The LSF is Not going to change it's program.
The LSF is Not going to change it's program."
"Got it? Good." AMEN :-) and "Congratulations!!" to all the Level fives
out there!!
Paul Clark, SKY PILOT ONE, Osaka, Japan(AMA # 53 777 1)
http://www.kcat.zaq.ne.jp/skypilot/
SKY PILOT'S HANGAR--RCHLG AFICIONADO
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[RCSE] Foreign MFDers Copying planes
I have been thinking all afternoon regarding foreign manufacturers copying planes. I would like to make a few comments both from the manufacturers point of view as well as a designer's point of view. I hope that this does not start any flaming, and I hope, as you will see, that it does not preclude anybody from designing. As a manufacturer of a tool that is not an airplane, I want to agree with Mark Mech and advise that he not simplify the ability of a foreign manufacturer, or even a internal high volume seller, by permitting or sending them information regarding his design. While he, or any other manufacturer, cannot prevent a competitive manufacturer from buying the design as a sample, he can only hope that the company would have more sense than to start bad press for themselves in the marketplace. The Marketplace for modeling is fairly small, so this bad press can be very damaging. There are other reasons which could cause a problem for the copying manufacturer. The state of the art changes fairly rapidly, and those pilots who want to have the "best" will have bought the plane prior to the copying manufacturer selling it. Besides that, there is alot of tooling, and labor which must be invested prior to a release, and there is a question of whether it is truely worth it. Poor decisions have yielded such planes like the B2 bomber. (it never could fly for me). People want to have the NEW design on the block. I have looked around at the contest scene and most planes last only a short time before a new, more advanced design is being flown by the top guys. If a foreign manufacturer decides to copy the design, there is really no recourse. A small manufacturer cannot fight with the only thing which he might have at his disposal, a copyright. And even that is only as effective as how deep the pockets the manufacturer has. He has to resolve himself to making them look bad in the marketing department, or perhaps what would really happen and that is he gets the shaft himself. I know, I have been there at the government level. The original desinger looses every time. So what can the manufacturer do? Well, he can design a new, better plane which makes the market for the older plane nonexistant. As if that is not what we are all trying to do already, Right? What I see is that the designs that are in effect today, will be only really competitive for a short time, and then they will be replaced by the newest and greatest. What is the true lifespan of a design? Perhaps months. And since it is quite short, the copying manufacturer will soon be outclassed by the upcoming designs. Unless the plane is so much a beginners plane that many will be sold, I consider the investment in copying a loss. Is that what the people in Taiwan, or another country thinks about, I do not know. I could go on, and I hope I have not alienated anybody. Thermals, Chris http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Nose lengths on HLG
Hi Gang, I need to get an average nose length on the current HLGs like Encore, Logic etc. Can Iask to have you send a measurment of the nose lengths from LEs to nose on your HLG? please reply privately, if you can. Thanks, Chris http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Correct URL Visalia HLGs
Hi Dick, Sorry, I reposted but here is the correct URL. I have pictures, not great, but just spent 2 hours scanning them in. Much more to come. Take a look and enjoy. http://www.scrollsander.com/VisaliaHLG.htm Thermals, Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com -Original Message- From: Dick Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Scrollsander [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Visalia HLGs Chris, I get "Not Found The requested URL /Visalia2000HLG.htm was not found on this server." if I try to I hit that URL. Are you sure you have it right and the permissions set so others can read it? Dick Hi Gang, Posted the start of a web page on the scores and info on planes during the HLG portion of flying Saturday PM at Visalia. Take a look. More info to come. http://www.scrollsander.com/Visalia2000HLG.htm Thermals, Chris http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Added Pics to Visalia HLG Page
Hello again Gang!: Added pictures to the Visalia HLG Page. I did not get pictures of everyone, and the shots are not great, but HLGs always look great!\ Take a look and enjoy. http://www.scrollsander.com/VisaliaHLG.htm Thermals, Chris http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Visalia hlg
1) Arthur Markowiecz (Sorry Arthur, hard to read your writing) 2) George Joy I have a complete list, and I have data on all the planes, I have as many photos of the planes as I could get, and hope to et stuff posted. A special thanks thanks to Guy and Linda Russo for all their efforts!!! Linda did not fly but sure was gGREAT support to both me and Guy for the event. And a special thanks to all the HLG flyers. So many great and very friendly flyers! And the planes, WOW what workmanship! I bag wings and feel like a newbie. I had extended talks with Brian (of the feather), Lex, Eric, Paul, George, Joe, Bruce, Tom, Dick, and so many others, that I feel right at home. There were many side arm launches, a wide variety of design approaches. If I could only do the bagging as well. More LAter, Chris -Original Message- From: Nowell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RCSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 5:17 AM Subject: [RCSE] Visalia hlg Just wondering who won the hlg contest. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] foam tunnels
Hi Pat. I cut holes lengthwise all the time in blue foam. I get snug fitting holes using a hot wire setup. I do not know how many ar interested but I took pictures wondering if people want to see how it is done? The method is quite adaptable, as if can be used for channels, and any shape you can make of wire. Should I put it on my web site?? Chris Adams -Original Message- From: Pat Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000 8:23 AM Subject: [RCSE] foam tunnels I am having no success trying to tunnel for a 1/2 inch carbon tube spar in an open class wing. I am using a soldering gun with tips made of heavy (maybe 12 guage) copper wire, running along a straight edge. My problem is that I can't seem to get a consistent diameter tunnel which is loose enoough to prevent distorting the wing surfaces, and tight enough not to reguire a huge amount of glue/balloons. How much glue do you use anyway? What do you use to cut the tunnel. How exactly do you make the tip? How do you guide it? Thanks RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Laser Range Finder at Visalia!
Hi Gordy, You should go out an build a device like Jim Wakefield did at the Sacarmento World champ competition. He has a theoylite (sp?), a pendulum and protractor arrangement, which permitted the viewer to freeze and measure the angle of the scope with respect to the level ground. This permitted a conversion to the accurate measurement at a glance to get away from the guesswork of the plane flying overhead. I, like many did the calc's and at 100 ft, if it is off of vertical more than 10 ft, the height measured goes up fast. Having seen it the difficulties with getting a plane with what one considers overhead, this device makes it easy. A good job should go to Jim for trying it, and making it work. However, congratulations, you can get into the arguement also, we are equal opportunity arguers! See you at Visalia. Chris Adams PS You had better practice siting MHLGs, they are especially hard to measure. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, September 18, 2000 7:50 AM Subject: [RCSE] "Laser Range Finder at Visalia!" Hi guys, I managed to get a handheld laser range finder for demo at Visalia. It looks like a small binocular, thru one eye you sight on the taget with a red dot, then just press a button and the laser shots the target giving the distance. Should be fun for checking launch and other heights. It worked on a hawk, but it was only at about 500'. We shall see :-) See you all there! Gordy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Questions asked again re:Setup
Hi Gang, Just 2 questions which have been on RCSE but U do not gave in my archive. 1) When setting up a HLG with flapersons using a 4 channel Rx, and 8103, what is the best way to set up and mix channels for the flaperons? (regular tail) 2) Can someone forward the URL for the swicth used for presents in HLGs on an 8103? Thanks to all. Chris http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Supplies for Saturday...
We had a great, strong wind out of the WSW, and Walter said it was choppy. If the front move through we will have great winds. If it is sunny, it will turn windy! See ya, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 11:29 PM Subject: Supplies for Saturday... Don't know who has the BBQ - I'll call Dave and see I'm wondering who is bringing the 25 mph West wind? Bill RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] F3B finals
You want to see the job, go to my web site page: http://www.scrollsander.com/F3B2000.htm It was difficult to even want to take pictures since when one looses a plane you are not really in the mood to talk. Chris -Original Message- From: Tom Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Henke, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, September 08, 2000 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] F3B finals I, for one, would love to see a picture of this 'mess' to fully appreciate the talent that it took to fly it to victory. Got a digital camera, Daryl? - Original Message - From: "Henke, Steve" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 3:06 PM Subject: RE: [RCSE] F3B finals Blowing up a molded plane and stitching it back together with pieces of another identical wing, who knows how many bottles of CA, rolls of packing tape and microballoons/epoxy, a couple carbon rods taped and glued to a fuse shattered in 4 sections, a big chunk of lead taped to one wingtip, then putting this mess into two full zoom launches RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] scratch building..
Hi Francisco, I just finished buillding a Graupner Cirrus and yes you do cut your the ribs individually if theyare not a straight taper. You can stack cut and sand ribs also knowing the tip and root rib. You have to then sand the ribs individaully to remove any taper spanning the width of the rib. As for sheeting, this goes back to glues which do not cure fast. Basically you don't use CA. When you place the bottom sheeting (the first side whatever it is) on you can use CA, and Ca can be used to secure the ribs to spar etc, everything you can reach, but the final second side sheeting is the problem. You can use epoxyy or Titebond. I prefer Titebond for everything. Just make sure everything fits, and you have tape and pins to hold things down, add the glue generously and then start putting the sheeting in place. Once you start you have to work fairly fast as to get the sheeting down prior to the glue skinning over. Good Luck. Chris Adams -Original Message- From: Francisco Hernandez [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, September 08, 2000 1:00 AM Subject: [RCSE] scratch building.. how do you guys scratch build planes from plans? do you cut ever individual wing rib with a knife one by one? also.. how do you glue balsa wing sheeting to both the top and the underside of the wing!? how do you get glue in there to stick the sheeting the the ribs, not just the front and middle spars..? thanks in advance RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Rules, Rules, F3B Rules
Hi Gang, I have to respond to all the arm chair comments regarding the F3B contest. I think the point should be dropped. I was there, saw the planes, all the wings, however I was not there to see the actual full reconstruction. To stand behind Daryl and all the crew that gave him such good assistance, I recall that there was a tremendous amount of concern by the crew as to what would be OK. I am sure the CD was aware of all things, and all the competitors were also aware. If any protest, or arguements were to be presented the protests had to come from the competitors/team members and NOT from any observer, visitor, or persons out side of the contest. Had I been a competitor I might have looked over the shoulders of all for adherance to rules. But I was not , and I had no reason to even review the rules. The ruling was made by the CD I am sure. I know one thing, there were alot of questions as what could be used. Glass, carbon and related materials were around to assist with putting the plane together, nothing more than would be in a toolbox, and we all use tape for so many things. Obviously the spar was strengthened, but I saw the same spar being used, and saw the main wing joiner being glued in, and the fuse being pieced together. Then I flagged his turns at the Base B turnpoint, saw him Relaunch again, and fly the ship with such a stead hand that I was impressed. Congratulations Daryl, and to all who assisted in the rebuild, a fine job was done. Good Luck at the World Champs. Thermals, Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Dragonette by DAW
Hi, The Dragonette was the first Micro HLG I built. Made of EPP and spruce spars, FG tailboom and a R/E sheet tail. You need to build it as light as you can, and use very small servos, batt and rx. I was impatient so I built it using hot Glue as suggested for one method. The fuse is covered in tape while the rudder and elev are sheet balsa with a recommended tissue covering. I installed CS-21 servos, 110 mah batteries, and a regular size Am Rx. Weight was about 5 oz. So how does it fly? The dragonette is not a high performance micro, however it is alot of fun to toss and bounce on the ground. You have to keep the speed up a bit due to the weight, and you need to be careful in the turns, not to slow it too much. It is a blast on the slope with light winds, and we have flown it is not so light winds. There are many micros and regualr HLG with better performance, but for the fun and durability of the ship, it s nice. I was always bouncing of the ground in cartwheels on landing, and it takes the beating you would give it on hard Hand launch throws. It is also offered at a low price so it does not hurt the pocket. If you are looking for much higher performance there are many HLGs as well as MHLGs out there. I have a collection of MHLGs on my web site at http://www.scrollsander.com/Soaring-MHLG.htm. These planes have been sent to me for display and are no way endorsed. I have them as a collection so all can see what MHLGs people and manufacturers are building. Hopefully I can get people to send me pics and specs of there HLGs so I can start a collection like the MHLG page. I hope this helps. Chris -Original Message- From: Daniel P. Boyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 8:25 PM Subject: RE: [RCSE] Dragonette by DAW Truely a peice of junk. What about it do you think is junk? (you are the first person that I have heard say this about it, so I am curious... I am always suspicious of people who don't have anything bad to say about something, but the same goes for people who don't have anything good to say either.) Another sucker for NSP. I have heard such mixed reviews of NSP that I figured I would give them a chance before I form an opinion of them... This is a glider that I would LIKE to fly this weekend at an informal "HLG Competition", but I have two other HLG that I plan on flying if it doesn't arrive. If I get it in time for this weekend without any problems then NSP will get my business again, if not then I will just buy from other vendors that I already trust ( I live 10 min from Hobby Horse so I get most of my stuff from them anyways, but they don't carry anything from DAW except the pf-5 and 6). Hope you get it this year. J. Davis Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Gordy Slope Sites
Paul, Gordy has never been to Red Rock here in Reno. Too bad, the slope fly we have on for the Air Race wekend will be fun. Chris (PS Gordy, this is not the Red Rock down in the Vegas area. FYI we're 500 miles away (north) and further west than LA, and obviously Vegas) -Original Message- From: Paul Rickie Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 5:14 AM Subject: [RCSE] TPsGs or POWAY LAND + TORREY PINES [EMAIL PROTECTED] on "Poway was DS'n Big Today!" GORDY!! You have been recycling rc soaring sites all over the country--have you missed any; besides the ones Paul Naton has discovered!? A simple question I do ask!!?? "IS IT RIGHT that one club should have EVERYTHING??!!" Paul Clark, SKY PILOT ONE, Osaka, Japan(AMA # 53 777 1) http://www3.osk.3web.ne.jp/~pclark/skypilot/ SKY PILOT'S HANGAR--RCHLG AFICIONADO RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] RedRock NV Slope
Hi Gang, After a little bit of experimentation I was able to get some lictures of Red Rock. I took my digital camera and took some panoramic shots. Please bear with the download time as they are 100K and I will try to get them lower. Please tell me how they show up on your computer? http://www.scrollsander.com/Soaring-Red-Rock2.htm See ya, Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Slopes in WA area
I'm going to be up in the Bellvue/Renton WA area thursday PM and perhaps Friday afternoon before flying out. Are there any local slopes or ?? I can visit? (no plane this time) Thanks Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Building Surface Question
Hi Matt, I lived in Stillwater OK so I know what can happen. You might try a door, perhaps a composite door for the base then add a pinning surface to it. I have a door in my shop in NV and while we do not have th humidity, we have dry air which takes away the water and warps the wood. Good Luck. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, July 07, 2000 6:22 AM Subject: [RCSE] Building Surface Question Well I was going to start construction of my next plane last night, but then I saw the 3/4 hardwood plywood that I bought to be base of my building surface was warped. I figure it was the humidity here in Texas which caused it. So now I am wondering what material I should use as a building surface base? I obviously need the surface to withstand the high humidity we have here in Texas. Please give me your suggestions? __ Matthew Kovacs AMD Fab 14/15 Etch Engineering 5204 E. Ben White Blvd., M/S 540 Austin, Texas 78741 (512)602-2662 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Servo Cans for JR 341/351
Robert, I have them . You can check them out n my web site links. http://www.scrollsander.com. These can were made by Ross Modles and Multiplex carried them before he was a big MP dealer. Chris Adams -Original Message- From: Robert Paula Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, July 07, 2000 7:04 AM Subject: [RCSE] Servo Cans for JR 341/351 Where can I get some round Servo Cans for JR 341/351. Originally sold by Karlton(Multiplex), but not on his web site. Any and all suggestions would appreciated. Regards, Robert Littleton, NH RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Been there done that
Over 30 years has shown me that the same old arguements are either taken too seriously, or that when people are wrong they still have to fluff up their feathers and talk big anyway. Must be that the bigger the noise, the more right they are. I am surprised I have not heard the saying "Those who think they are know it alls are particularly aggravating to those of us who do!" This all started as a friendly talk and despite all this, I was brought down to the level of the street, and the rude things I heard at contests. I only have to apologize to the person who was brought down with me without the person realizing it was happening until we both realized it was too late. (and the person is not Roe). Too bad, this discussion could have been very interesting, until people took and continue to take it personally. I'm out of here. Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] HLG, first ideas
Chris, Read ALL the threads again. They HAVE changed, while I haven't. I have always said I would accept it, and I am willing to take any heat you, or anybody would like to dish out. However, do give credit to my doubts. If you followed the threads, and now the post by John, something is finally been brought to reality. No more of this exaggeration to blow out the competition. When I see them launch at Visalia to those heights I will beleive it. I have been to Visalia 3 years running and have get to see ANYBODY break what I think is 70 ft, EVEN in the wind, which has been blowing at Visalia. I don't beleive a wind will add 40% to the launch height. Now read that again. I don't beleive it, and that does not say it hasn't been done. As for the ballon idea, true the wind will/can cause problems, but then again nobody else is will to even try the idea. All you want to do is complain. Go back to the shop and prove it, don't sit back and be the armchair quarterback. Ideas/opinions can be expressed, and that is what this exchange is for. We ALL do not have to agree, and we can agree to disagree. As for hitting a balloon at say 70 ft, if you can't do that then you are not a HLG flyer. A GOOD HLG flyer can place the plane directly into the thermal. Go out an start practicing. As for locking onto the plane by the rangefinder, take a look at the specs. If you look at them you will see that many of the conditions which would contribute to the inaccuracy of the rangefinder ar e present when we fly the planes. Also +/- one meter is just over 6 feet of variance. If it said +/- 1/2 meter, then this is a range of 3 feet. So A launch read at 15 meters, could be 14 or 16, that is assuming the 15 is correct. Remember horseshoes and handgrenades. Just wait, I have already been thinking that everyone will say the string/tether was not measure under tension. Then again, I guess I will have to trust my Craftman tape measure. Measure twice, cut once. Some people complain, other do. I will be as/more accurate than the laser device Been there done that! Well Gang, Aren't we having fun. My goal WILL be to outlaunch them at Visalia. Here's hoping. Professor Chris Adams, Ph. D. LSF 348 Level V (#8) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] John Roe
Hi Scott, Hey, if they get over 100 ft I will eat crow, as they say. One of my local club members said we should put a balloon up at 100 ft, then have all of us tape a pin to the nose of our HLG, and if they can pop the ballon on the throw, it will prove it. Sounds like target practice to me. Whatever happens we should all have alot of fun. Personally, I want to see 100 ft, so then I can start designing for 150 ft. Have fun. Chris -Original Message- From: Scott Hewett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ScrollSander [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] John Roe ScrollSander wrote: BTW, We are going to really measure launch heights at Spring Fling in 1 1/2 weeks. Chris Adams And I presume serve up some Crow for the "hundred footers" to consume. I'm betting on your estimates Chris. May they all have stiff necks that day. Scott RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] An Extreme Example of Kindness and Customer Service
Hi Gang, I want to express my thanks to someone who has gone out of their way in the modeling field, Mike Greeshields of Hobby People/Global Hobby Distributors. A number of weeks ago I posted to RCSE a question regarding Airtronics plugs on a pair of CS-10s. I had plugged them in to my Airtronics receiver with their plugs corresponding to all my current Airtronics servos. The problem was that they heated up tremendously and I could only pull the battery off so fast. However, the servos did not survive. I looked the servos over carefully, examined the wires, plugs, etc, however I could not find out the reason for the problem. Since these servos were purchased when a local Hobby Dealer of Global and Hobby People had passed on and the store was being closed, I had no recourse to finding out the problem of the servos. It was then that I posted a question to the exchange, so as to not destroy the other CS-10 servos I had. The 2 remaining servos have been rewired and working with my JR receivers. I was willing to live with the destruction of the first two.. This was when Mike Greenshields, of Hobby People Global Hobby Distributors stepped in and went out of his way to find out what happened and help me. Upon our discussions of the servos, Mike kindly placed alot of effort in contacting me to resolve the problem. Mike went the EXTRA MILE and showed that customers, like myself are important to the major hobby distributors. Mike replaced the servos. So when you see MIke at the flying fields in Southern California, remember the kindness he showed, and remember the company, Global Hobby and Hobby People, he represents. I sure will. Thanks MIke. Thermals, Chris Adams LSF Level 5 (#8) http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] HLG Launch height
I look forward to seeing the launches and loops at Visalia this year. You always amaze me. Chris Adams RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Flying site lost
Many good contest were run there and I learned alot of my technique from the SULA club ans flying site. Good Luck on your new search. Chris Adams -Original Message- From: David J. Schat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, June 01, 2000 10:54 AM Subject: [RCSE] Flying site lost Sad day today, SULA was informed that we will be loosing our flying site at Cal State Dominguez hills by the end of this year. The LA Galaxy is building a soccer stadium and world class tennis stadium. SULA has been flying there for over 20 years. Anyone that has knowledge of land that might be suitable in the South Bay area of Los Angeles please send an email to me or [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Spud Boy Trust but verify. (Russian proverb) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] 1.5M span rule at IHLGF
I am not going to the HLG contest, but if there is a rule, there is a rule. 60" is NOT 1.5M and it is not close. If I were hosting a HLG contest where the rules said 1.5M I would have a jig, just like they would , I assume. The fuse would rest in the center and then gets pushed thru the span measuring jig (no tilting or YAW). A 60" airplane would not go through, but even 59" might sneak by. The measurement is tip to tip regardless of poly/dihedral in the flying mode. I imagine if you have a 90 degrees of dihedral one panel could be less than 59". AND, if you chose, you could have a bipe, but I would not accept a plane from those imaginative people which launches at 59" but the wing expands/opens to something greater (For those of you who recall Rolf Decker's F3B ship). Let's see 150 cm /(2.54 cm/inch) = 59.05" so a 59" plane sneaks by. Yes, get out those SAWS! Chris -Original Message- From: Timothy E. Cone [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, May 27, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: [RCSE] 1.5M span rule at IHLGF Hello People, I want to start a betting pool to bet on how many people have to use Mark Navarre's Zona saw to get their HLG's to fit through the 1.5M jig. I think I remember 8 guys having to lop the tips off of their wings to get the models to pass tech inspection last year. Lets see, 1.5 meters is close to 60 inches right? Yea, a 60 inch span should be ok. Timothy E. Cone [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.NightOps.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] High Aspect ratio
WoW, finally, someone has also started building higher A/R ships. I have been building these hig A/R ships for over 20 years, and while they fly different than the kites on tow, they have so many more advatages. And, FYI, the SFVSF L/D trials back in the 70's spearheaded by Blaine Rawdon showed the highest correlation of L/D to performance characteristic was A/R to L/D. The big boys showed it in full size, the modelers started to show it then, I have tried it before, and now a kit manufacture of reknown is doing it, who knows perhaps it will rub off still further. Congrats to Don for joining the crowd. Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Looking for site for coordinates
Hi Gang, Anyone have a URL to a location for HN-350 and HN 1038 coordinates? Selig's sites does not have them. Thanks, Chris http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Bagging leading edges
Doug, The standard procedure for bagging LEs is to cut the mylars short of the LE, feather the edge of the mylars, and then have an overlap layer like wax paper to conform the glass around the LE under pressure. When removed the paper peals off, the LE needs to be sanded, and the edge ridge left by the mylars has to be removed. That is the general idea. I have been trying to do it a different way and this was because I was trying alot of SMALL wings for micro HLGs and a small MHLG speed 280 wing. I use square mylars with no feathering because I want to keep a generic set of mylars, since I did not want to keep making specific mylars and then never use them again. (Save $, you know) Also I wanted to really reduce the amount of work I have to do. This method has one problem I am trying to figure out, that is buckling around compund curves. I prep the core as usual. I wrap the LE with FG. All other FG, CF is added as usual. I then take a strip of very light 0.5" wide FG and spray one side of it with 3M77. I apply it along the LE on the lower side of the wing, extending out about 1/4" or more from the LE, making a kind of ledge. I then mix up epoxy and microballoons (sometimes chopped cotton/cabosil (sp?)), relatively thick, and place this in a disposable syringe, plastic icing bag, or small sandwich bag. For the bags I cut a small bit of a corner out to make a exit for a bead of epoxy. I then apply a good sized bead of epoxy along the ledge of FG just prior to placing the top mylar over the core. I then apply the vacuum, and I have been using 16". The mylars contour to the LE as much as it can and the bead of epoxy/balloons fills the gap. I really rub and sweeze the mylars to get the bead of ballons to move and contour to the gap, filling it in. I then place the wing in the cores for the normal curing procedure. When I take off the mylars when cured and the LE is very nice. I can then sand the LE to shape and I have to do less work filling etc. I am still experimenting but this seems to be working. Now I have only tried this on small core wings, but feel that it is going to work for a new 3M ship I have been drawing. Again, the only problem is buckling along the compound LEs and this seems to be reduced when I keep the edge of the mylars near the compund transition point of the cores, and when the cores are thin. With the trend to go to thinner cores, I think it will work better and become popular. I am also trying to use this method for elipitical dihedral wings, like the Hobie Hawk. I have worked with bagging Hawk wings, made of plywood skins, with the MFDer, so I have seen that the thinner airfoils can have this work well. I cannot take credit for this method. I was at Visalia 2 years ago and had gaps (bubbles)in the Trailing Edge (TE) of the wings. Another manufacturer suggested I brush on some microballons/epoxy on the TE to eliminate the gaps during bagging. I just thought it would be more to my advantage to try it on my LE's. I have been trying to add molding stuff to my web site at http://www.scrollsander.com (under Soaring Goodies) and have not bagged wings recently, but will be. I have a digital camera and will be taking pictures of my next bagging with this method. I hope this helps. Thermals, Chris Adams -Original Message- From: Doug Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, April 22, 2000 11:52 PM Subject: [RCSE] Bagging leading edges I am trying to figure out how to vaccum bag a wing's leading edge. It seems that as air is sucked out of the bag it leaves a void between the mylars at the leading edge. So I guess that the leading edge really isn't under much direct pressure. On my latest attempt, I added a strip of .75 oz glass to the leading edge before bagging, but I didn't wet it out with resin. I assumed that the mylars would squeeze together at the leading edge and wet out the fiberglass that was on the wing.( I was pulling 15 inches by the way) That didn't happen, in fact the entire leading edge was dry in the majority of places. Any hints or tips or website references? BTW, the wing turned out beautiful otherwise. I have been bagging wings for years but this was my first wet layup. My handlaunch wing weighs around 3.75 oz. Thanks, Doug 7B RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Re: Fuse Dimensions Again
Jim, Sorry I did not include this in the last post but if you view this place you will see my last ship. It is ths yellow one with the chubby bearded guy holding it. http://www.scrollsander.com/Soaring-Visalia98.htm Thanks again. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Re: Triple Taper Wings
Robert, Can you post the panel lengths again, as the first 2 panels total approx 38" and with the tip it comes to nearly 46". Not really 2M. Thanks. Chris -Original Message- From: Robert Steinhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 12:51 PM Subject: [RCSE] Re: Triple Taper Wings In response to Mario Marzocchis post requesting help with triple taper wing planform design I have put together a note including the following sample wings and some web references which may help you understand wing planform design a little better. I feel the following two triple taper wing designs are examples of good planform. Wing Design - Joe Wurts Eagle AR=13.320 Area=933.60 Suggested Airfoil RG15 (at least a few Eagles were built SD7003) Root Chord 24.77 cm (9.75") Root Panel Length 63.0 cm (24.75") First Break Chord 23.3 cm (9.187") Mid Panel Length 61.0 cm (24") Second Break Chord 17.6 cm (6.93") Tip Panel Length 17.7 (7") Tip Panel Chord8.66 cm (3.41") The following 2+ meter span three panel wing is derived from the Joe Wurts Eagle and has similar lift efficiency and aspect ratio. The tip chord is slightly larger than it would be if you linearly scaled the Wurts Eagle Wing. This was done to try to improve handling and tip stall (especially low speed/landing) on this smaller wing. Wing Design Two - AR=13.20 - Smaller Span and Proportionally Larger Tip Chord RG15 Root with RG15 Tips Root Chord 21 cm (8.3") Root Panel Length 51.79 cm (20") First Break Chord 20 cm (7.9") Mid Panel Length 46.58 cm (18.34") Second Break Chord 15 cm (5.9") Tip Panel Length 20.7 (8.15") Tip Panel Chord10.8 cm (4.25") RG15 is used for Root through Tip.. No geometric washout (twist) is used on this wing. If you have not already downloaded a copy of John Hazels fine LiftRoll.xls spreadsheet you should do so. This fine quality free tool helps evaluate local lift distribution and is valuable when comparing/evaluating wing planforms. http://homepage.altavista.com/johnhazel/downloads.html The following two web resources may help you understand better the process of designing a wing with good planform and lift efficiency. THE INFLUENCE OF PLANFORM AND AIRFOIL ON THE DESIGN OF HIGH PERFORMANCE SAILPLANE WINGS WITH VERY HIGH ASPECT RATIO (LOW RE-NUMBERS) by Klaus Holighaus http://www.iac.net/~feguy/soaring_symposia/71-wvu.html Applied Aerodynamics: A Digital Textbook http://www.desktopaero.com/appliedaero/appliedaero.html __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] The good ol' days.
Bill, I remember installing a servo tray which slid in a groove in both my Graupner Cirrus and my old Slope Windward. I had to switch both the Rx and servos, Thermal flying in the AM, and slope flying in the PM. Now I have alot of old servos and thank goodness I can still use them in planes. When I took my Hobie Hawk out to fly in a RE contest, the old folks said, WOW you are even flying old Kraft servos! Still looking for KPS12 and KPS18 gears to keep them running. My old KPS12s saw me through ALOT of flying as well as the 8 hour LSF slope flight. Kinda don't want to retire them as they are so faithful to me. I still have my old wideband Kraft 3 channel with Rx, as well as my first single channel galloping ghost rx with Controllaire TX. Not much in the case then as compared to nowadays. Thermals, Chris Adams RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Epoxy Question Again
Gentlemen: I have been watching the exchange regarding this question and I agree with Chuck about re-wetting the cups. In general, the densities of the catalyst and hardeners are close enough to consider them equal for the weighing measurements. If you weigh the parts in separate cups before you mix them together, the remaining coat of resin in the cup from which it is poured can throw off the mix ratio, especially in smaller amounts. Often I will pour the combined mix between mixing cups to ensure the ratio still remains the same. Personally, I agree with those who express the problem with partial pump strokes, and I have seen the problem when they are not correct. A postal scale works well, and is great for measuring other items, like parts, small planes etc. I would recommend that you get a scale with a plug in power supply as the use of 9V batteries can give problems if the scale current drain is high.Most scales will go to 60+ oz, which is nearly 2 kg, and represents nearly 2 liters (or 2 quarts) of epoxy. At this amount of epoxy the accuracy is close regardless of wetting. I use a postal scale for my micro HLG wings and fuses, with epoxy weights bewteen 15 and 25 grams total, and it works well. Chris http://www.scrollsander.com I have used West Systems for years with the pumps, but I've always been concerned about making 'partial stroke' batches. Weighing out the components is the way to go, but does anyone know if the specific gravity for the components are equal? That would make the 5 to 1 math easier. Martin Brungard Tallahassee, FL "Meandering to a different drummer" __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Soaring on windy days! (long)
Mike Kovacs wrote: I have a hard time keeping the glider from stalling when it turns back into the wind and losing a great deal of altitude. I have even reverted to watching the vultures fly in the wind. I see what they are doing, but just can't seem to do it. It looks as if they use their downwind speed to gain the altitude lost when they turn back into the wind. I seem to have to keep my speed up on the downwind, but just lose too much . Mike, this is a very good question for a new pilot, and even for us experienced pilots to review. There are many approaches and each pilot will have his/her own technique. I will give my opinions here and other will add some with their experience. The approach to thermalling in the wind may depend on many factors: wind speed, characteristics of the plane/airfoil, control surfaces with plane responses, land characteristics ( wave production, trees etc), where you are flying (upwind or down wind from your position), and your experience. Blaine Beron-Rawdon has written about plane flying speeds in windy conditions, as perhaps many others. I view the plane circling in the wind. The plane looks like it is flying faster downwind versus upwind because we use ground based objects as a reference. Going upwind, the speed we observe is the plane's flying speed minus the windspeed. Going downwind the plane's speed is the flying speed plus the wind speed. Often times, we think that we need to slow down the plane going downwind in order to reduce the sink rate. However, we often have to give down elevator to speed up in order to get the surfaces of the plane working better to get it to turn. When we turn back into the wind the plane is often going faster than it needs to go to remain in level flight going upwind, hence the plane balloons up and we feed in down elevator. We can take advantage of this later. This is a short explanation but is sufficient. In practice, we can fly either in circles, or we can fly in an S pattern, always turning upwind. The latter flying is like a flying on the slope and allows you to never really gain speed or loose control. While the addition of ballast helps with penetration, you can add it an still have problems. The main problem I found was that in windy condition we do not have as much down elevator as we really need. For years, I used to fly in the wind by just adding an oz of lead to the nose, to move the CG further forward. My controls were better, and by not adding ballast you still have a plane that flys like it always does. Anyway, if you fly the S pattern you have to allow for downwind drift of the thermal and as your plane goes crosswind you let it drift downwind through the center of the thermal. When you exit the thermal you will be downwind of its center. When youthen turn upwind you are slightly ahead of the center yet outside of it. Then you repeat the process you go crosswind, drift through the center of the thermal. You go on with this. The advantage of this pattern is that you are nearly always in control of the plane and its speed. You can fly circles, and it this case you have to concentrate on drifting downwind with the thermal. Sometimes, if the thermal is big enough, fly in the thermal. In this case, the thermal as a whole is traveling/drifting downwind, but you see the air inside the thermal bubble. It is alot like the old question of birds flying in a Boxcar. While you are in the thermal, the air you are flying in is the thermals air not the exterior air. Really a closed system. If you are trying to fly in a small thermal in the wind, you will be entering and exiting the thermal and the air around it. In these cases you need to have either good control surface responses, or be able to "lead" you ship anticipating what it will be doing. If you fly in this pattern, you can be going upwind. Your plane will balloon up, depending on its speed and the rising air of the thermal. As it balloons up you can either give down elevator or turn the ship. If you give it down elevator the plane will be upwind of the thermal and you have to then allow the plane to fly more downwind on the downwind leg before you turn it upwind to get back into the thermal. If you turn yo convert the energy of balloning up into altitude, at the expnese of flying speed. As you reach to top of the ballooning path and turn downwind in the circle, you have to add some down elevator to keep your speed up so that your control surfaces remain effective. If they are not effective you will flounder downwind with the wind and end up downwind of the thermal. You will then have to add down elevator to regain speed for the turn, or after the turn you will need to add down elevator in order to penetrate back up into the thermal. Ideally you can time the downwind leg and the balloon such that you stay in the thermal. That is the trick. I add noseweight to my plane because Ihave found that adding noseweight keeps me in flying
[RCSE] A New MHLG posting
Hi Gang, As always I am trying to update my Micro HLG page. I just added a new plane and picture, the "DAdams" by Matthew J Litke. A very nice little V-Tail ship. Check it out. http://www.scrollsander.com/Soaring-MHLG.htm I am continuing to add MHLG gliders to the page and would like to add YOURS! There is not charge, and I can put in any info you want. All I need is some pictures, and some specs. If you have a digital picture you can E-mail it to me, or if you have a regular picture I can scan it in and return the picture. I know this past summer was busy, and you (like myself) my be working on a new MHLG, so if you can take the time to share your design, please let's all see it. Thermals, Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Anyone tried the new JR micro rec.?
Is the new JR R600M out? The last time I checked it was not. I called Horizon/Indy amd they had no idea. they said at Christmas, but nothing. I want it for my new Micro HLG. Comments? Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] RES musings
Walter, How about Rick Walters and his White Trash! Chris Adams RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] copying
As I see it there is no conflicts regarding copying. They are not the same. This seems to be the opinion across the board here. A design patent would not even be worth the trouble because any change would eb different. The plane, in general, cannot be made a utitlity patent for protection because prior art would negate it. As for the name, there is no claim that can be had as the name was never marked even with a tm. (I looked on the instructions) As with healthly competition, both must surge ahead to keep on the forefront of flying and marketing. Good Luck to them both. CA http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Seamless mold
Steve, Thanks for the description. Over the years I have asked the questions and have always marveled at how the PROs like you do it. Thanks for helping us. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] world`s fastest model plane
Ray, The Dassel was a constand chord aileron ship with a span of about 2M. The Airfoil was a Eppler 182, whihc has alot of reflex. It was a molded ship and a version of it was flown as an F3B entry back in the late 70's. Chord was about 8", flying stab. I'll see if I can dig out some pics, unless Skip Miller has some. Do you Skip? Chris Adams - have you ever heard this? the world`s fastest model airplane is an Austrain slope soaring glider called `Dassel`, which holds a speed record of 248mph! I m not sure this record has been broken ever since, but without a prop disk or air intakes to creat drag, a glider sure has a higher top end. I wonder what this glider look like, wing span, air foil, aspect ratio, flying weight... Raymond Wong RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Foam Cutting
Mike, All of the points made by Michael, Rob, and Neil are the points most foam cutters know generally from experience. I THANK then for posting them on the list. Personally, I have planed foam cores more for convenience. It was either to repair and square up an edge for measurement, or to make sure a dent in the foam does not go through to the core. I get my foam from local places, and some lumber yards realize it is for insulation and don't worry about denting it up, or it is scrap of some kind. I have planed the cores when looking to laminate the blanks for larger cores or other reasons. It is generally a call you make easily. Neil's comments on putting curvature into cores are right on. Many have done it for decades. Mike's comments on stress are right especially when designing thinner items where the covering materials (or none at all) do not hold the core to shape. Bob's comments on bowing after a cut are often seen, especially with the blue type foams. I can't say much for spyder foam as it is too expensive for me for experiments when blue foam will do. In general, blue foam is extruded when made, white foam is expanded in a mold, EPP is the same, and since there is a direction (or grain) in spyder foam, it may be extruded. With extrusion the edges cool at a different rate than the centers, or some other force is involved, but in blue foam, if you look from the side, you can see its density change. When I have used blue foam cores and cut them down the highpoint to add a spar, the cores have bowed due to the internal stress. This is exactly what Bob said. It is a pain to get the cores lined up again when joining them back. I have also planned the foam when I have had to laminate foam to cut thicker pieces. The "skin" seemed to create a small hold for the wire when hot wiring. This does not happen alot but did a few times. BTW, the cores were not joined with a glue which did not melt with the wire. I do exactly what the guys say with heavy weights. Unless you can't get the core flat when curing the piece there is not reason to add an extra step. I hope this helps. Thanks to Neil, Bob, and Michael. Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Vacuum Bagging
Brian, I wasn't angry, just offered a different opinion. When I read something from you, I enjoy it alot, look at it to see if I can use it, incorporate it into what I currently do, and hopefully come up with something that is better, easier, etc. Yes, I too think the exchange is for ideas. I, as Del, can offer an opinion, but I do not beleive anything I say is "Law", if yu know what I mean. I have learned over the years the following: 1) there is the right way to do it, 2) there is the wrong way of doing it, and 3) there is my way of doing it. The "My" way is the way each of "us" finds it the easier, fastest, least labor intensive, and often cheapest way to do something. That is what this exchange is for, to share ideas, and I think all of those out there who do. Thermals, Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Guideline Questions
Hi Gang, I have been flying gliders for over 30 years. I have heard of many unwritten guidelines for flying. Like at contests, "Never fly over the Pit area". I am taking an informal poll: "What ind of guidelines have you seen used in all the years of your flying? Thanks in advance. Chris http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] CASL
Why the limit of the REs to bent wing prior to 1981??? There are other nostaglia RES planes that have dihedral. I guess you could consider a dihedral ship "Bent Wing"! I was there during that era, and flew mostly dihedral "Gas Bag" RES ships. Perhaps I should not consider the CASL Feb contest? Or should I? Chris Adams LSF348 Lvl V RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Visalia 99 HLG contest
Hello Gang, Well, I was there, hoping to get into the contest. But, it was not to be since Both of my Micro HLG frequencies were already taken. So I just sat back and watched. Here are MY opinions! First, I agree with Tom Hoopes. He had a very interesting contest that was essentially an elimination event, and yes, it was a spectator contest. At the risk of starting the discussion, the comments on RCSE have spawned the old arguments again of thermal duration, versus sailplane performance. The events Tom ran were much like an F3B equivalent contest, while other HLG contests are more toward the thermal events we normally fly. In the latter, the flights are mere qualifications, while in Tom's contest we actually saw some performance requirements. While standing at my ScrollSander table, people would come by and ask about my Itch MHLG, and I would get into a discussion of how high people were throwing their HLGs. I stood back and asked "How high is the American flag?" If you were there you know the flag, and how it was toppled by the night flying Zagis! Anyway, the concensus of everyone that I spoke with was that it was 34-36 ft tall. I then asked how much higher the HLG guys were throwing their planes over the flag. The MAX was half again as high. So with these measurements in mind the height the HLGs were reaching was in the range of 50-55 ft. This is a far cry from the 70 ft or above people have posted previously on RSCE. I want to point out that a number of the HLG hot shots were throwing their planes, and as always they threw very hard. It was a contest, after All! Next I evalauted some of the designs and saw 4 general schools of HLG theory. 1) The non-stallable floaters: Logic types, and small long tail boom tailed designs; 2) The shorter coupled Encore, Maple leaf designs, 3) A side-arm wing tip design, 4) and the standard polyhedral R/E ships. Granted, the contest was a more all around performance contest, rather than a throwing duel, thermaling show, and an attempt to get back to the landing spot contest. What I saw were ships that were designed for one task, or one type of a series of tasks, with different types of flying. Personally I would not expect to see Joe fly a Long tailed plane, as he may be looking for a different type of performance. Joe, if you are out there, I am not trying to speak for you in any way! With the Logic type planes, I saw launches and leveling out of the planes into the wind. They stopped their forward lfight and hung there. When they turned downwind they floated along, however when they turned back upwind, they stopped again. They did not stall as we would normally call a stall, since the tail could never get the angle of attack of the wing up sufficiently for the plane to stall. Rather, in my opinion they mushed. They could hang in a thermal and, with the barn door type flapperons they used , they could turn. The side arm launched plane was interesting, and was probably thrown the highest, (55ft), however it weighed a bit more. I tried to throw my Micro like that for grins, and the plane would not right itself well for the throw. The side arm plane had a large vertical fin, and a high degree of wing sweep, which lends itself to more stability and dihedral effects. The Encore type planes, were responsive aileron ships, low cambered airfoils and could keep the speed up when pointed into the wind. The poly ships were the normal poly ship designs with typical generic flying capabilities. Personally I would want a HLG that could search the air if required, rather than rely upon others to help find air. I recall a famous outddoor HLG champ who visited our flying field in Southern Cal many, many years ago, Bill Blanchard. He had an arm! When he visited he took a look at my HLG, which I flew in Dave Thornburg's HLG contest to 3rd place, and made a few suggestions on both the throw and the plane. I made those adjustments right there at the field, and got about 8 ft higher on all my throws. To date I haven't seen those adjustments used on any of the HLGs. Anyway, Mr. Blanchard had a style and could throw a plane higher than anyone, and had his plane trimmed to fly better than anyone, so he would just stand around and wait either until you threw, in which case he out launched then out flew you, OR, he would go scampering across the field before you even nknew it to throw into the thermal air he saw. The scamperig may be seen in some current pilots. Some pilots may do that with HLG now, but this reflects only dead air time from a high launch. Here again we see that the higher you launch, the longer you stay up. Sounds just like the evolution of F3B way back when! This may be rambling on, but what I see is the arguement for changing rules, events or whatever, to make you more competitive. It's the argument all over again of the thermal qualification flight for the spot landing which determines the winner type contest.
[RCSE] I'm NOT Sal, from Visalia
OK gang, Don't know if it was an insult, sorry Sal, but I got MISTAKEN for Sal, of NSP, while I was at Visalia. Just to let you know, I am more handsome, have a less grey beard, and I am quite a bit taller. I do make the Micro HLGs, so I can see how some would get confused! I have also been in soaring for 31 years, have a Level 5, and know how to crash better! See ya, Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Switch source
I know many have posted the answer but I can't find it. Does anyone know a source for a dual rate switch for a JR 8103 TX? TIA Chris http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Inverted Hobie
Walter, I have been flying a Hobie for 7 years, and have seen them fly for over 25 years. I know the current manufacturer. I fly my Hobie on the slope alot and while it can fly inverted, the curved wings make it hard to keep inverted due to the normal tendency of the plane to do alot of wobbling and rolling out. I can barrel roll it, with full throws, but inverted not much. I have clipped the wings, removing 3 bays, and this makes the plane more manageable, but it still does the wobbling. If the wings are true, with washout as described in the manual, the plane will fly and turn extremely well. One tendency may pilots have is to bang the stick to the side and release it to get the plane to turn. This is one plane where small sustained control inputs makes the plane not wobble. Now everyone on RCSE may say you need to add fin area, but this is a misnomer. If the plane is set up the way the plans say, the ship is fine. I fly mine with more noseweight because when I try to slow it down, it will tip stall. Then its three spins before the pull out. Moving the CG back will make the stall happen more often because you are flying it at the edge. The weight of the wing panels is probably the problem. \ Sloping the ship is great as that is what it was made for. I have flown mine at Visalia during the Fall fest and while the big ships are just floating , the Hobie will circle up thru them. One time I banked into a thermal then spent all my time trying to level the plane out while going up fast amist the composite ships which where just maintaining. Good Luck. Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] 110 mAH but 150
While 110s or 150s all depend on how much you move your servos, Rx drain being constant, I use 150 NiH. On RCSE someone mentioned using a 9volt NiH pack from Radio Shack. they have 7 cells, you split out 4 and three. They run about $11 for a 9 volt bat, and I generally charge them at the normal rates on a wall charger, just a shorter time. They may be sensitive to charging but mine have lasted me a long time. Weight is about 0.8 oz, quite in the range of the NiCds. U use them in my Micros since I like to fly. Check out my micro page at http://www.scrollsander.com/Soaring-MHLG.htm Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Micro HLG performance
I built a DAW Dragonette for my first MHLG. this was just to find out how they flew. At 4500 ft, it flew but I could never get it out. Problems with turning, at least for me. Others may find them great. However, when I put together my first bagged wing with molded fuse, at 4.5 Oz, the same weight at the Dragonette, the time differences were not comparable. It was in a different league. The first day our thermalled it out sdeveral times. Besides, I could throw it. At Visalia last year we compared it to the REGULAR HLGs that were there for the Saturday event (which did not go). I, as well as others, could throw it as high as the others launched by Wurts etc. and airtime was about 5 seconds shorter. Other planes like the Gnat, may be lighter and more fragile, so trying to throw them hard may damage then, but on the up side their sink rate was lower. In my opinion, a well designed MHLG can perform as well as some of the bigger brothers. they are easier to carry in the car, and keep handy. Mine fits in a box 3" x 7" x 30", a real small case. Take a look at the Micros which have been submitted to me for posting. I welcome more. http://www.scrollsander.com/Soaring-MHLG.htm I have a few new ones on the board for Visalia this year. Thermals, Chris Adams http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Dead air times and heights
Mark, I have always wondered how high someone can throw a plane. Sometimes I think it is a fish story, But if you canm get 90 ft, that is extremely amazing. I have yet to see even Wurts get 90 ft. There was thread on RCSE about throwing heights some time ago. While I am open for proof, 6o ft is high for anybody, with any glider. If yo are getting 50 seconds from a 90 ft launch, then again, (in my humble opinion) the plane should be redesigned. I would love to see you do it at Visalia if we make it there. Good Lift, Chris How high are you launching? I can get a good 60 to 90 ft. launch by side arm throwing if the plane is fairly rigid. If the tape is loose, it will only launch half as high and be squirrly as hell, It's kind of fun though, like russian roulette, you never know which way it will be going when it tops out! A rigid spar or good tape job fixes this anomoly though. I can get 30 to 50 second dead air flights on a good launch. 2 to 3 seconds on a really bad launch :~( Mark Mech [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aerofoam.com -Original Message- From: Breck Baldwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 9:23 AM Subject: [RCSE] Dead air times with noseeum What are folks getting for deadair time on their Noseeums? I am good for, tops, 15 sec and I just want to make sure that someone is doing better before I do my 'rebuild' which will address some aerodynamic/weight issues. I am in at 3.8 oz with smallish winglets. email direct is probably better since this is pretty specific stuff. thanks breck [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] HLG Question
I have been in a discussion of AR's of HLG's. In general, what is the wing chord at the root, the general tip width, and general area of the high performance stuff?? TIA Chris http://www.scrollsander.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Re:Mosquito class HLG: Japan???
I would love to add any picture to my Micro HLG site. Check it out: http://www.scrollsander.com/Soaring-MHLG.htm Anybody have any to add? Chris Adams -Original Message- From: sakazaki, osamu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 1:30 PM Subject: [RCSE] Re:Mosquito class HLG: Japan??? At 10:10 PM 99.7.12 -0700, Scobie Puchtler or Sarah Felstiner wrote: I've always heard that the 700mm or 29.5" Mosquito class gliders started asa competitive class in Japan, but I have NEVER seen ANY Japanese designs or any real info about what the mosquito flying or competition there is like, Mr. Shyuzoh Okamoto, a skilful F3B pilot and a model manufacturer/ importer, sells his own designed mosquite class HLG kit, called LUCION ( I don't know the correct spelling). It weighs 100 grams to 120 grams and has very thin wing. I don't know any other commercial kit of this category in Japan. (Mr.) Osamu Sakazaki assist. prof. in musicology dept. of music, seitoku univ. chiba japan mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~sakazaki/index-e.html RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RCSE] Top Ten Planes
As mentioned for top ten planes, this very much depends upon the area of the country, who you learned to fly with, what the contests were like and so much more. What you need to look at is the influence on soaring and correlate it to the development of RC Soaring. Popularity, or kits sold is one thing, but IF a plane was copied, or many of the parts incorporated into new designs, that may be an important criterion. As such, many of the planes listed in the SNIP may not be applicable. Try these on for size: Thermic 50 or B, By Goldberg (the BOT used the wing design) The Malibu and Monterey of AstroFlight The Mark Models Windward (of course the windfree is a derivative of the windward for higher performance) The MIrage by Blaine Rawdon The KA-6, by Slingsby (If you are id the age to remember this ship, it was one of the first ALL molded fiberglass ships weighing in at nearly 11 +lbs, and was a great sloper at 12 ft since we didn' thave the winches of today to launch it. The Paragon (and now the derivative Gemini) The Graupner CirrUs which so closely paralles the planes we now fly and it was designed in 1969 or so. Just change the airfoil and it IS the plane(s) we now fly, at 30 years old! Try the SWK MK1, which which was a cross country record holder, evolved to the Goose, and parallels many of the planes of today. The Challenger, by Otto Heitdecker, won many a SOAR Nats. The Astro Jeff , a much larger Cirrus type ship. The Aquila, as mentioned, but with a Semisymmetrical foil used by Skip Miller for FAI F3B speed. The Rubber Duckie, you may not know this but it was one of the first foam planes desinged for combat. Know how combat is flown today, this plane was more aerobatic than the current Zagis. If hit the wingsa and stabs were designed to come off, making it the EPP equivalent of it's time. How about the Albatross's from Pasedena. How about the White Trash (can anyone ID the Pilot??? He's now a top Full-size Soaring pilot) The Javelins from JP models. The grand espirit by Airtronics The Legionair (recall "Texas" Tom Williams, not the "Calif" Tom Williams of The Winddrifter) The Algebra of Sean Bannister the Harley Michaelis designs The Raven series by Tom Jones (?) The Gyphon flying wing. Many models by Rolf Decker, the Beligium team, the Italians, As you will note many of these (not all) are West-Coast US designs. Someone from the East Coast or Europe could compile a much different list. Look the planes over. Many of the planes are just spinoffs. Now think slope racers. Have Fun. Chris Adams Snip A cross-thread: how about the top 10 USA sailplane designs? Some nominations: Gentle Lady (more pilots trained ...) Windrifter Windfree Bird of Time Aquila Hobie Hawk Oly II Sagitta Windsong Sailaire Falcon 880 Glenn Frederick MD RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
