Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Philip TAYLOR wrote:



Daniel wrote:


Chris Ilias wrote:


P.S. It's "hear, hear", not "here, here". :)


As in "Good to hear, Good to hear", I guess!! I'll accept that!!


Not convinced.  I have always believed that it is, in fact,
an imperative : "Hear [this], hear [this]".  Others may
disagree.

Philip Taylor


Could be, Philip, but *I* would interpret "Hear [this], hear [this]" as 
"Hear (this) that I am about to say" where as I interpret "Hear, Hear" 
along the lines of "Good to hear what *you* have said"!!


To each their own, I suppose!

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-25 9:13 PM, Rufus wrote:

I still think it should be a user option, and not a hard coded default
behavior.


It is a user option and never was hardcoded. Go to
SeaMonkey-->Preferences-->Mail_&_Newsgroups-->Network_&_Storage, and
uncheck "Compact folders when it will save over ## MB".



And that will force Compact All on close/quit?  If that's true, that's 
how I'll roll...


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Chris Ilias]

On 12-07-25 9:13 PM, Rufus wrote:

I still think it should be a user option, and not a hard coded default
behavior.


It is a user option and never was hardcoded. Go to 
SeaMonkey-->Preferences-->Mail_&_Newsgroups-->Network_&_Storage, and 
uncheck "Compact folders when it will save over ## MB".


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Philip TAYLOR]

Daniel wrote:


Chris Ilias wrote:


P.S. It's "hear, hear", not "here, here". :)


As in "Good to hear, Good to hear", I guess!! I'll accept that!!


Not convinced.  I have always believed that it is, in fact,
an imperative : "Hear [this], hear [this]".  Others may
disagree.

Philip Taylor
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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Chris Ilias wrote:



P.S. It's "hear, hear", not "here, here". :)



As in "Good to hear, Good to hear", I guess!! I'll accept that!!

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-25 9:36 AM, Rufus wrote:

Daniel wrote:


Rufus, in another twig of this thread, I've "Here Here"'d this
suggestion, but it's just occured to me that doing it this way *might*
have some people asking how come it takes for SM to actually close!!


That's why is should be an option and not a default, along with current
Compact to save size operation.  Let the user decide which best fits the
way they work.


Auto-compacting used to be off by default. Unfortunately, most users
don't know what compacting is or why they should do it. As a result,
they never do it, and their Inbox continuously grows in size, eventually
slowing down SeaMonkey. Imagine if every message you've ever received
was still stored in your inbox file, even after you've cleared your
inbox via SeaMonkey.

P.S. It's "hear, hear", not "here, here". :)


BTW, my theory is that the American word "yeah" is our rendition of
"hear" as said by a Brit from an r-dropping dialect. So our translation
of "hear, hear" would be "yeah, yeah."



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear

I would have thought it derived from the "o-ye, o-ye" of the town criers 
of old(e)...or the O-yea, o-yea of the British courts, when is bourn(e) 
of "oyeaz-oyeaz".


...which are near to spot-on for the imperative conjugation of the 
Spanish verb "oir" - to listen - which is "oye". Or "oyele" - listen to 
him - in translation in accord with the Wiki.


But they all seem to funnel from imperative variations of/on "hear ye" 
in meaning; though modern American vernacular would likely tend more 
towards "listen up".


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-25 9:36 AM, Rufus wrote:

Daniel wrote:


Rufus, in another twig of this thread, I've "Here Here"'d this
suggestion, but it's just occured to me that doing it this way *might*
have some people asking how come it takes for SM to actually close!!


That's why is should be an option and not a default, along with current
Compact to save size operation.  Let the user decide which best fits the
way they work.


Auto-compacting used to be off by default. Unfortunately, most users
don't know what compacting is or why they should do it. As a result,
they never do it, and their Inbox continuously grows in size, eventually
slowing down SeaMonkey. Imagine if every message you've ever received
was still stored in your inbox file, even after you've cleared your
inbox via SeaMonkey.

P.S. It's "hear, hear", not "here, here". :)


BTW, my theory is that the American word "yeah" is our rendition of 
"hear" as said by a Brit from an r-dropping dialect. So our translation 
of "hear, hear" would be "yeah, yeah."


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-25 9:36 AM, Rufus wrote:

Daniel wrote:


Rufus, in another twig of this thread, I've "Here Here"'d this
suggestion, but it's just occured to me that doing it this way *might*
have some people asking how come it takes for SM to actually close!!


That's why is should be an option and not a default, along with current
Compact to save size operation.  Let the user decide which best fits the
way they work.


Auto-compacting used to be off by default. Unfortunately, most users
don't know what compacting is or why they should do it. As a result,
they never do it, and their Inbox continuously grows in size, eventually
slowing down SeaMonkey. Imagine if every message you've ever received
was still stored in your inbox file, even after you've cleared your
inbox via SeaMonkey.

P.S. It's "hear, hear", not "here, here". :)



I for one certainly didn't know, or know the implications.  I got the 
impression it was/is a *good* thing, but again I almost never see a 
Compact Folders notification (save 20 MB) presumably because of my own 
usage habits - I don't really use my SM Inbox for much.  My Sent Folder, 
yeah...


But this is another argument for why I'd prefer to be able to just set 
Compact All Folders at close of Mail/session.  It might take some time 
the first time (and I'm not sure that would really be true now that I'm 
a bit smarter on the matter), but after that I'd think it would go 
smoothly and transparently.


I still think it should be a user option, and not a hard coded default 
behavior.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Chris Ilias]

On 12-07-25 9:36 AM, Rufus wrote:

Daniel wrote:


Rufus, in another twig of this thread, I've "Here Here"'d this
suggestion, but it's just occured to me that doing it this way *might*
have some people asking how come it takes for SM to actually close!!


That's why is should be an option and not a default, along with current
Compact to save size operation.  Let the user decide which best fits the
way they work.


Auto-compacting used to be off by default. Unfortunately, most users 
don't know what compacting is or why they should do it. As a result, 
they never do it, and their Inbox continuously grows in size, eventually 
slowing down SeaMonkey. Imagine if every message you've ever received 
was still stored in your inbox file, even after you've cleared your 
inbox via SeaMonkey.


P.S. It's "hear, hear", not "here, here". :)

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Daniel wrote:

Rufus wrote:

»Q« wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 21:35:21 -0700
Rufus  wrote:


»Q« wrote:



Your inbox is actually a file on your hard drive, and each e-mail
occupies space within that file.



I'm assuming each message is it's own file/structure...


The structure of each inbox message (which is just its headers and body
text*) is within a single file;  that's a key in
understanding how moving/deletion and compacting work, which is why I
mentioned it in my first sentence in this thread. ;)


but now that I look through my Profile structure that seems not to be
the case.


:)


It doesn't matter to me really just what SM does - it's just a
surprise, as my primary e-mail client - Mac Mail - doesn't structure
this way. Each message is an individual file.


That's a newer way of doing it.  There was work going on to add support
for doing it that way to Thunderbird (and so I assume to SeaMonkey),
and maybe that will continue.



I'd be perfectly satisfied with an option to Compact all folders on exit
Mail/close session - like selections for clearing Private Data.  That
would be easier for the team to include, and take care of the job in a
more comprehensible manner.



Rufus, in another twig of this thread, I've "Here Here"'d this
suggestion, but it's just occured to me that doing it this way *might*
have some people asking how come it takes for SM to actually close!!



That's why is should be an option and not a default, along with current 
Compact to save size operation.  Let the user decide which best fits the 
way they work.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Daniel wrote:

Rufus wrote:

»Q« wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 21:35:21 -0700
Rufus  wrote:


»Q« wrote:



Your inbox is actually a file on your hard drive, and each e-mail
occupies space within that file.



I'm assuming each message is it's own file/structure...


The structure of each inbox message (which is just its headers and body
text*) is within a single file;  that's a key in
understanding how moving/deletion and compacting work, which is why I
mentioned it in my first sentence in this thread. ;)


but now that I look through my Profile structure that seems not to be
the case.


:)


It doesn't matter to me really just what SM does - it's just a
surprise, as my primary e-mail client - Mac Mail - doesn't structure
this way. Each message is an individual file.


That's a newer way of doing it.  There was work going on to add support
for doing it that way to Thunderbird (and so I assume to SeaMonkey),
and maybe that will continue.



I'd be perfectly satisfied with an option to Compact all folders on exit
Mail/close session - like selections for clearing Private Data.  That
would be easier for the team to include, and take care of the job in a
more comprehensible manner.



Rufus, in another twig of this thread, I've "Here Here"'d this
suggestion, but it's just occured to me that doing it this way *might*
have some people asking how come it takes for SM to actually close!!



and that should read "...come it takes so long for SM to."!

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-24 7:24 AM, Daniel wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash folder,
not the inbox.


Chris, how does an e-mail get into the trash folder, so that, in your
explanation above, it can be deleted from the trash folder??


When you select a message and click delete, it looks like it is being
moved to the trash folder, but underneath it is really being copied to
the trash folder.



Yeap, thanks, Chris. I had thought that the message did not appear at 
all in the trash folder, just a counter got incremented, but I see, from 
all the discussion here-abouts, that a copy is actually made and placed 
in Trash!!


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Rufus wrote:

»Q« wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 21:35:21 -0700
Rufus  wrote:


»Q« wrote:



Your inbox is actually a file on your hard drive, and each e-mail
occupies space within that file.



I'm assuming each message is it's own file/structure...


The structure of each inbox message (which is just its headers and body
text*) is within a single file;  that's a key in
understanding how moving/deletion and compacting work, which is why I
mentioned it in my first sentence in this thread. ;)


but now that I look through my Profile structure that seems not to be
the case.


:)


It doesn't matter to me really just what SM does - it's just a
surprise, as my primary e-mail client - Mac Mail - doesn't structure
this way. Each message is an individual file.


That's a newer way of doing it.  There was work going on to add support
for doing it that way to Thunderbird (and so I assume to SeaMonkey),
and maybe that will continue.



I'd be perfectly satisfied with an option to Compact all folders on exit
Mail/close session - like selections for clearing Private Data.  That
would be easier for the team to include, and take care of the job in a
more comprehensible manner.



Rufus, in another twig of this thread, I've "Here Here"'d this 
suggestion, but it's just occured to me that doing it this way *might* 
have some people asking how come it takes for SM to actually close!!


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Rufus wrote:



I'd be *really* happy if I had a user pref option to Compact All Folders
on closing Mail, and/or SM (closing session) -


Here!! Here!! (except when I accidentally delete a message I later 
realise I need!!)


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Rufus wrote:

Mike C wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 3:07 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash
folder,
not the inbox.


so...you're telling me that moving things out of my Inbox does not
actually move them out of my Inbox?

I have no idea what people are trying to say about this.  Why would I
Empty Trash if I haven't placed something in there in the first place?
And why wouldn't moving something there actually *put* it *there* for
action?


If you select a message in your inbox, and click delete, the message
will be copied over to your trash folder. The version in your inbox
will
then be marked as deleted and hidden from view.



This where I loose it..."copied"?  Why isn't the message *moved* to the
Trash vise just being "removed from display"?  That doesn't make any
logical sense to me - true or not...


Compacting a folder will command SeaMonkey to remove all messages from
that folder that are marked as deleted.



That makes sense - as long as it also globally removes all messages
marked as "deleted" and still not displayed.  I don't see how it would
though, as it seems it will only compact the single specified Folder.


Empty Trash will not only hide all messages in the Trash folder from
view, but also remove them.


Which is what one would expect.


* Although it may not technically go through those steps. It seems
easier/faster to just remove all messages in the trash, regardless if
they are marked as deleted or not. It's the same result.



In light of the above, I can't see why I don't see "Compact All Folders"
requests when I have my invoke set at >20 Meg.  I should think I'd see a
lot of them - I don't seem to see any at all.

I think I'm going to set my threshold lower - like >5 Meg - if this is
what is really going on.


Here's were terminology is important:
When you *copy anything to a new location it also remains in the old
location.

When you *cut anything and paste it to a new location it's gone from the
original location (it's moved).

The questions are:
1)When you delete from the inbox, you are cutting or copying?
   Does the inbox need to be compacted?

2)When you delete from the sent folder, you are cutting or copying?
   Does the inbox need to be compacted?

3)When you delete from the trash, you are cutting or copying?
   I always thought that this was the only folder that needs compacting.



Precisely.  I get the impression that an actual "cut" is *never*
performed.  Nor is an actual "delete".

And since I'm not seeing requests to Compact All Folders, how do I
force/invoke that?  I can't find a menu item for it...



File->Empty Trash and File->Compact Folders

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-24 12:24 PM, Mike C wrote:

You state above "E-Mail account is compacted".
How do you do that?
I only know how to compact individual folders.


I think what he means is File-->Compact_Folders, which goes through all
of your folders.



Yeap, that's what I thought File->Compact Folders meant (note the "s"!!)

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

»Q« wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 21:35:21 -0700
Rufus  wrote:


»Q« wrote:



Your inbox is actually a file on your hard drive, and each e-mail
occupies space within that file.



I'm assuming each message is it's own file/structure...


The structure of each inbox message (which is just its headers and body
text*) is within a single file;  that's a key in
understanding how moving/deletion and compacting work, which is why I
mentioned it in my first sentence in this thread. ;)


but now that I look through my Profile structure that seems not to be
the case.


:)


It doesn't matter to me really just what SM does - it's just a
surprise, as my primary e-mail client - Mac Mail - doesn't structure
this way. Each message is an individual file.


That's a newer way of doing it.  There was work going on to add support
for doing it that way to Thunderbird (and so I assume to SeaMonkey),
and maybe that will continue.



I'd be perfectly satisfied with an option to Compact all folders on exit 
Mail/close session - like selections for clearing Private Data.  That 
would be easier for the team to include, and take care of the job in a 
more comprehensible manner.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[»Q«]

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 21:35:21 -0700
Rufus  wrote:

> »Q« wrote:

> >>> Your inbox is actually a file on your hard drive, and each e-mail
> >>> occupies space within that file.  

> I'm assuming each message is it's own file/structure...

The structure of each inbox message (which is just its headers and body
text*) is within a single file;  that's a key in
understanding how moving/deletion and compacting work, which is why I
mentioned it in my first sentence in this thread. ;)

> but now that I look through my Profile structure that seems not to be
> the case.

:)

> It doesn't matter to me really just what SM does - it's just a
> surprise, as my primary e-mail client - Mac Mail - doesn't structure
> this way. Each message is an individual file.

That's a newer way of doing it.  There was work going on to add support
for doing it that way to Thunderbird (and so I assume to SeaMonkey),
and maybe that will continue.

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

NoOp wrote:

On 07/24/2012 05:47 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-24 12:24 PM, Mike C wrote:

You state above "E-Mail account is compacted".
How do you do that?
I only know how to compact individual folders.


I think what he means is File-->Compact_Folders, which goes through all
of your folders.



I finally found that...I'd been looking under "Tools" and in
Preferences.  But I guess now I don't know how to Compact an individual
Folder...



Right click the folder & select 'Compact This Folder'.



Ahh...found it!

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-24 7:24 AM, Daniel wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash folder,
not the inbox.


Chris, how does an e-mail get into the trash folder, so that, in your
explanation above, it can be deleted from the trash folder??


When you select a message and click delete, it looks like it is being
moved to the trash folder, but underneath it is really being copied to
the trash folder.


Looks like I caught the disease, too. So far today, I've been prompted 
12 times to compact folders, and I've said yes every time, but it hasn't 
made a bit of difference. Half an hour later, it wants to compact again.


I haven't changed any settings; the only thing new this week is that I 
upgraded from v. 2.10.1 to 2.11.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[NoOp]

On 07/24/2012 05:47 PM, Rufus wrote:
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> On 12-07-24 12:24 PM, Mike C wrote:
>>> You state above "E-Mail account is compacted".
>>> How do you do that?
>>> I only know how to compact individual folders.
>>
>> I think what he means is File-->Compact_Folders, which goes through all
>> of your folders.
>>
> 
> I finally found that...I'd been looking under "Tools" and in 
> Preferences.  But I guess now I don't know how to Compact an individual 
> Folder...
> 

Right click the folder & select 'Compact This Folder'.

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-24 11:15 AM, Mike C wrote:

The questions are:
1)When you delete from the inbox, you are cutting or copying?


What you see: cutting.
How it is stored: copying.


   Does the inbox need to be compacted?


There answer to every "Does  folder need to be
compacted?" is yes. :)


2)When you delete from the sent folder, you are cutting or copying?


What you see: cutting.
How it is stored: copying.


   Does the inbox need to be compacted?


Items in the sent folder were never in the inbox, so no; but the sent
folder would need to be compacted.


3)When you delete from the trash, you are cutting or copying?


Neither. (Where would you be copying/moving to?)
If you select a message in the trash and click delete, it gets removed
from view, but still exists in the actual trash file. You still need to
compact the folder.

If you use the 'empty trash' command, it will include an action to
compact the trash folder.


Now you guys know why auto-compacting was switched on by default. :)



I'd be *really* happy if I had a user pref option to Compact All Folders 
on closing Mail, and/or SM (closing session) - like the way I can choose 
to Empty Trash on Exit with the Mac Mail client.


Mac Mail prefs and file management are two of the reasons I use Mac Mail 
as my primary e-mail client...if it had a newsreader built into it I 
probably wouldn't be using SM or T-bird, at this point.  Though  I do 
prefer SM Browser pref options over both Safari and FF.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-24 12:24 PM, Mike C wrote:

You state above "E-Mail account is compacted".
How do you do that?
I only know how to compact individual folders.


I think what he means is File-->Compact_Folders, which goes through all
of your folders.



I finally found that...I'd been looking under "Tools" and in 
Preferences.  But I guess now I don't know how to Compact an individual 
Folder...


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Chris Ilias]

On 12-07-24 7:24 AM, Daniel wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash folder,
not the inbox.


Chris, how does an e-mail get into the trash folder, so that, in your
explanation above, it can be deleted from the trash folder??


When you select a message and click delete, it looks like it is being 
moved to the trash folder, but underneath it is really being copied to 
the trash folder.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Chris Ilias]

On 12-07-24 11:15 AM, Mike C wrote:

The questions are:
1)When you delete from the inbox, you are cutting or copying?


What you see: cutting.
How it is stored: copying.


   Does the inbox need to be compacted?


There answer to every "Does  folder need to be 
compacted?" is yes. :)



2)When you delete from the sent folder, you are cutting or copying?


What you see: cutting.
How it is stored: copying.


   Does the inbox need to be compacted?


Items in the sent folder were never in the inbox, so no; but the sent 
folder would need to be compacted.



3)When you delete from the trash, you are cutting or copying?


Neither. (Where would you be copying/moving to?)
If you select a message in the trash and click delete, it gets removed 
from view, but still exists in the actual trash file. You still need to 
compact the folder.


If you use the 'empty trash' command, it will include an action to 
compact the trash folder.



Now you guys know why auto-compacting was switched on by default. :)

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Chris Ilias]

On 12-07-24 12:24 PM, Mike C wrote:

You state above "E-Mail account is compacted".
How do you do that?
I only know how to compact individual folders.


I think what he means is File-->Compact_Folders, which goes through all 
of your folders.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Mike C wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 3:07 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash
folder,
not the inbox.


so...you're telling me that moving things out of my Inbox does not
actually move them out of my Inbox?

I have no idea what people are trying to say about this.  Why would I
Empty Trash if I haven't placed something in there in the first place?
And why wouldn't moving something there actually *put* it *there* for
action?


If you select a message in your inbox, and click delete, the message
will be copied over to your trash folder. The version in your inbox will
then be marked as deleted and hidden from view.



This where I loose it..."copied"?  Why isn't the message *moved* to the
Trash vise just being "removed from display"?  That doesn't make any
logical sense to me - true or not...


Compacting a folder will command SeaMonkey to remove all messages from
that folder that are marked as deleted.



That makes sense - as long as it also globally removes all messages
marked as "deleted" and still not displayed.  I don't see how it would
though, as it seems it will only compact the single specified Folder.


Empty Trash will not only hide all messages in the Trash folder from
view, but also remove them.


Which is what one would expect.


* Although it may not technically go through those steps. It seems
easier/faster to just remove all messages in the trash, regardless if
they are marked as deleted or not. It's the same result.



In light of the above, I can't see why I don't see "Compact All Folders"
requests when I have my invoke set at >20 Meg.  I should think I'd see a
lot of them - I don't seem to see any at all.

I think I'm going to set my threshold lower - like >5 Meg - if this is
what is really going on.


Here's were terminology is important:
When you *copy anything to a new location it also remains in the old
location.

When you *cut anything and paste it to a new location it's gone from the
original location (it's moved).

The questions are:
1)When you delete from the inbox, you are cutting or copying?
   Does the inbox need to be compacted?

2)When you delete from the sent folder, you are cutting or copying?
   Does the inbox need to be compacted?

3)When you delete from the trash, you are cutting or copying?
   I always thought that this was the only folder that needs compacting.



Precisely.  I get the impression that an actual "cut" is *never* 
performed.  Nor is an actual "delete".


And since I'm not seeing requests to Compact All Folders, how do I 
force/invoke that?  I can't find a menu item for it...


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Mike C]

Daniel wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete
the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.

They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!


Wrong (just checked). Please don't give such false advice,
especially if
it results in data loss without any undo possibility. The Empty Trash
command actually includes a Compact Folder call.


When did this action change?? Perhaps we users should have had it drawn
to our attention!!


As Beauregard already noted, what you wrote is probably true if read
exactly. Empty Trash does in fact not touch the Inbox, only the Trash
folder. For the latter it includes a Compact Folder call.

[It didn't appear to me that anyone could think that Empty Trash would
affect other folders.]

HTH

Jens



so...Empty Trash actually *does/should* reduce the size of the Inbox
because the user has moved the files to the Trash so they no longer
reside in the Inbox, and the Trash Compacts on Empty.

If it doesn't work that way, it should!  That would be what one would
expect.



No, Rufus, as I understand it:-

1.an e-mail is received into the inbox, un-read. Inbox size is
increased.
2.the e-mail in the inbox is read (causing a change in e-mail
header). Inbox file size is unchanged.
3.the e-mail in the inbox is marked as Trash, causing change in
header, but stays in inbox (invisible) and Trash number increases by
one. Inbox file size is unchanged.
4.Trash is emptied, causing change in header, but stays in inbox
(invisible) and Trash number goes to zero. Inbox file size is unchanged.
5.*E-Mail account is compacted*, so all e-mails in the inbox that 
have
the change made in point four are deleted from the inbox and the inbox
is compacted, reducing its size.

I had thought the indicator might have been X-Mozilla-Status because, in
my inbox, an email showed the following difference when I marked it as
un-read and then as read:-

Unread messageX-Mozilla-Status: 
read messageX-Mozilla-Status: 0001

but another message, which I had marked for deletion still had
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001, so I don't know which setting it is!!

IMHO, of course, and subject to correction, re-education.



You state above "E-Mail account is compacted".
How do you do that?
I only know how to compact individual folders.
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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Mike C]

Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 3:07 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash
folder,
not the inbox.


so...you're telling me that moving things out of my Inbox does not
actually move them out of my Inbox?

I have no idea what people are trying to say about this.  Why would I
Empty Trash if I haven't placed something in there in the first place?
And why wouldn't moving something there actually *put* it *there* for
action?


If you select a message in your inbox, and click delete, the message
will be copied over to your trash folder. The version in your inbox will
then be marked as deleted and hidden from view.



This where I loose it..."copied"?  Why isn't the message *moved* to the
Trash vise just being "removed from display"?  That doesn't make any
logical sense to me - true or not...


Compacting a folder will command SeaMonkey to remove all messages from
that folder that are marked as deleted.



That makes sense - as long as it also globally removes all messages
marked as "deleted" and still not displayed.  I don't see how it would
though, as it seems it will only compact the single specified Folder.


Empty Trash will not only hide all messages in the Trash folder from
view, but also remove them.


Which is what one would expect.


* Although it may not technically go through those steps. It seems
easier/faster to just remove all messages in the trash, regardless if
they are marked as deleted or not. It's the same result.



In light of the above, I can't see why I don't see "Compact All Folders"
requests when I have my invoke set at >20 Meg.  I should think I'd see a
lot of them - I don't seem to see any at all.

I think I'm going to set my threshold lower - like >5 Meg - if this is
what is really going on.


Here's were terminology is important:
When you *copy anything to a new location it also remains in the old 
location.


When you *cut anything and paste it to a new location it's gone from the 
original location (it's moved).


The questions are:
1)When you delete from the inbox, you are cutting or copying?
  Does the inbox need to be compacted?

2)When you delete from the sent folder, you are cutting or copying?
  Does the inbox need to be compacted?

3)When you delete from the trash, you are cutting or copying?
  I always thought that this was the only folder that needs compacting.









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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash folder,
not the inbox.


Chris, how does an e-mail get into the trash folder, so that, in your 
explanation above, it can be deleted from the trash folder??


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Rufus wrote:

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete
the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.

They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!


Wrong (just checked). Please don't give such false advice,
especially if
it results in data loss without any undo possibility. The Empty Trash
command actually includes a Compact Folder call.


When did this action change?? Perhaps we users should have had it drawn
to our attention!!


As Beauregard already noted, what you wrote is probably true if read
exactly. Empty Trash does in fact not touch the Inbox, only the Trash
folder. For the latter it includes a Compact Folder call.

[It didn't appear to me that anyone could think that Empty Trash would
affect other folders.]

HTH

Jens



so...Empty Trash actually *does/should* reduce the size of the Inbox
because the user has moved the files to the Trash so they no longer
reside in the Inbox, and the Trash Compacts on Empty.

If it doesn't work that way, it should!  That would be what one would
expect.



No, Rufus, as I understand it:-

1.  an e-mail is received into the inbox, un-read. Inbox size is increased.
2.	the e-mail in the inbox is read (causing a change in e-mail header). 
Inbox file size is unchanged.
3.	the e-mail in the inbox is marked as Trash, causing change in header, 
but stays in inbox (invisible) and Trash number increases by one. Inbox 
file size is unchanged.
4.	Trash is emptied, causing change in header, but stays in inbox 
(invisible) and Trash number goes to zero. Inbox file size is unchanged.
5.	E-Mail account is compacted, so all e-mails in the inbox that have 
the change made in point four are deleted from the inbox and the inbox 
is compacted, reducing its size.


I had thought the indicator might have been X-Mozilla-Status because, in 
my inbox, an email showed the following difference when I marked it as 
un-read and then as read:-


Unread message  X-Mozilla-Status: 
read messageX-Mozilla-Status: 0001

but another message, which I had marked for deletion still had 
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001, so I don't know which setting it is!!


IMHO, of course, and subject to correction, re-education.

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:


Jens Hatlak wrote:


Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion
and removes them from your sight.

They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!


Wrong (just checked). Please don't give such false advice, especially if
it results in data loss without any undo possibility. The Empty Trash
command actually includes a Compact Folder call.


Daniel said emptying Trash doesn't delete the email from the Inbox. I
believe his statement to be true. The only way to remove an email from
Inbox that was moved to Trash is to compact the Inbox. He was not
addressing what happens in Trash.


Jens used the singular "Compact Folder" -- if that was intentional, then
only the Trash would be compacted. But if he meant to use the plural,
"Compact Folders" would compact all folders in the account, including
Inbox, and his comment would be relevant.



Maybe I talking olden days, but I don't think an e-mail is really, ever, 
moved to Trash, it's just marked (in its header) for deletion and, 
maybe, a pointer is set in trash, but no e-mails in trash. Then, when 
the e-mail account is compacted, those e-mails marked (in their headers) 
for deletion, are actually deleted.


But I do not do any development work on SM as, I believe, Jens does, so 
whom should you believe??


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Jens Hatlak]

Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

If you select a message in your inbox, and click delete, the message
will be copied over to your trash folder. The version in your inbox will
then be marked as deleted and hidden from view.


This where I loose it..."copied"?  Why isn't the message *moved* to the
Trash vise just being "removed from display"?  That doesn't make any
logical sense to me - true or not...


Locally, SM/TB store all mails inside a folder (like Inbox) in one file. 
That file basically consists of the source of all messages ever copied 
to that folder, in order of receipt. That format is called mbox. Now if 
you say "delete this message", the application just marks the message 
for deletion (which is fast, because the application knows which bytes 
to change on disk for that, and can use random access). If you do a 
normal delete, the message source is first copied to the Trash folder; 
if you do Shift+Delete, that step is skipped.


For single messages, the above approach may seem pointless. But for many 
messages (thousands), especially reading a folder is accelerated since 
only one file needs to be read, and as you might know, disk access is 
one of the most costly operations (time-wise) of a computer.


NB: Since SM 2.9, the adventurous can select a different mail storage 
format called Maildir which saves individual messages in separate files. 
I won't explain how to do that here since at least right now it's only 
for advanced users anyway (see the SM 2.9 changes page if you still want 
to know).



Compacting a folder will command SeaMonkey to remove all messages from
that folder that are marked as deleted.


That makes sense - as long as it also globally removes all messages
marked as "deleted" and still not displayed.


As I said, one folder = one file, so if you compact one folder, only 
that file is touched (and maybe its index file, *.msf).


HTH

Jens

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

»Q« wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:27:49 -0700
Rufus  wrote:


»Q« wrote:



Your inbox is actually a file on your hard drive, and each e-mail
occupies space within that file.  Moving an e-mail out of the inbox
does move it to wherever you chose, but the space it occupied in
the is still there in the inbox file;  IOW, the inbox file is the
same size even after you delete stuff from the inbox.  Compacting
the inbox gets rid of that (now useless) space, reducing the size
of the file.


I could see doing that, but setting the file length to zero on Delete
- then Compact deleting the headers(I think there are other things on
my system that do this)...but even that seems like far more effort
than just moving/reallocating the file location to the Trash.


Setting the file length to zero would get rid of all the e-mails in
the folder, including their headers.  I'm not sure what SeaMonkey would
do WRT the index if it found a zero-length inbox.  If it's important to
you, you could set up a fresh profile and test your ideas.



Zero length message, not zero length Inbox.  I'm assuming each message 
is it's own file/structure...but now that I look through my Profile 
structure that seems not to be the case.


It doesn't matter to me really just what SM does - it's just a surprise, 
as my primary e-mail client - Mac Mail - doesn't structure this way. 
Each message is an individual file.


Anyway, the bottom line is that I don't see Compact Folder(s) prompts 
from SM and I can only surmise that that has something to do with the 
way I manage my sessions.  I should expect to see a lot of them, and I 
barely see any at all.  Which is ok by me...


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[»Q«]

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:27:49 -0700
Rufus  wrote:

> »Q« wrote:

> > Your inbox is actually a file on your hard drive, and each e-mail
> > occupies space within that file.  Moving an e-mail out of the inbox
> > does move it to wherever you chose, but the space it occupied in
> > the is still there in the inbox file;  IOW, the inbox file is the
> > same size even after you delete stuff from the inbox.  Compacting
> > the inbox gets rid of that (now useless) space, reducing the size
> > of the file.
> 
> I could see doing that, but setting the file length to zero on Delete
> - then Compact deleting the headers(I think there are other things on
> my system that do this)...but even that seems like far more effort
> than just moving/reallocating the file location to the Trash.

Setting the file length to zero would get rid of all the e-mails in
the folder, including their headers.  I'm not sure what SeaMonkey would
do WRT the index if it found a zero-length inbox.  If it's important to
you, you could set up a fresh profile and test your ideas.

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 3:07 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash folder,
not the inbox.


so...you're telling me that moving things out of my Inbox does not
actually move them out of my Inbox?

I have no idea what people are trying to say about this.  Why would I
Empty Trash if I haven't placed something in there in the first place?
And why wouldn't moving something there actually *put* it *there* for
action?


If you select a message in your inbox, and click delete, the message
will be copied over to your trash folder. The version in your inbox will
then be marked as deleted and hidden from view.



This where I loose it..."copied"?  Why isn't the message *moved* to the 
Trash vise just being "removed from display"?  That doesn't make any 
logical sense to me - true or not...



Compacting a folder will command SeaMonkey to remove all messages from
that folder that are marked as deleted.



That makes sense - as long as it also globally removes all messages 
marked as "deleted" and still not displayed.  I don't see how it would 
though, as it seems it will only compact the single specified Folder.



Empty Trash will not only hide all messages in the Trash folder from
view, but also remove them.


Which is what one would expect.


* Although it may not technically go through those steps. It seems
easier/faster to just remove all messages in the trash, regardless if
they are marked as deleted or not. It's the same result.



In light of the above, I can't see why I don't see "Compact All Folders" 
requests when I have my invoke set at >20 Meg.  I should think I'd see a 
lot of them - I don't seem to see any at all.


I think I'm going to set my threshold lower - like >5 Meg - if this is 
what is really going on.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

»Q« wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:07:24 -0700
Rufus  wrote:


Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash
folder, not the inbox.


...so...you're telling me that moving things out of my Inbox does not
actually move them out of my Inbox?


Your inbox is actually a file on your hard drive, and each e-mail
occupies space within that file.  Moving an e-mail out of the inbox
does move it to wherever you chose, but the space it occupied in the is
still there in the inbox file;  IOW, the inbox file is the same size
even after you delete stuff from the inbox.  Compacting the inbox gets
rid of that (now useless) space, reducing the size of the file.



I could see doing that, but setting the file length to zero on Delete - 
then Compact deleting the headers(I think there are other things on my 
system that do this)...but even that seems like far more effort than 
just moving/reallocating the file location to the Trash.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[»Q«]

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:07:24 -0700
Rufus  wrote:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
> > On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:
> >> Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
> >> delete the e-mails from your "inbox",
> >
> > That part is right. :)
> >
> >> it just marks them for deletion and
> >> removes them from your sight.
> >
> > That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
> > your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash
> > folder, not the inbox.
> 
> ...so...you're telling me that moving things out of my Inbox does not 
> actually move them out of my Inbox?

Your inbox is actually a file on your hard drive, and each e-mail
occupies space within that file.  Moving an e-mail out of the inbox
does move it to wherever you chose, but the space it occupied in the is
still there in the inbox file;  IOW, the inbox file is the same size
even after you delete stuff from the inbox.  Compacting the inbox gets
rid of that (now useless) space, reducing the size of the file.
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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Chris Ilias]

On 12-07-23 3:07 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash folder,
not the inbox.


so...you're telling me that moving things out of my Inbox does not
actually move them out of my Inbox?

I have no idea what people are trying to say about this.  Why would I
Empty Trash if I haven't placed something in there in the first place?
And why wouldn't moving something there actually *put* it *there* for
action?


If you select a message in your inbox, and click delete, the message 
will be copied over to your trash folder. The version in your inbox will 
then be marked as deleted and hidden from view.


Compacting a folder will command SeaMonkey to remove all messages from 
that folder that are marked as deleted.


Empty Trash will not only hide all messages in the Trash folder from 
view, but also remove them.
* Although it may not technically go through those steps. It seems 
easier/faster to just remove all messages in the trash, regardless if 
they are marked as deleted or not. It's the same result.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash folder,
not the inbox.


...so...you're telling me that moving things out of my Inbox does not 
actually move them out of my Inbox?


I have no idea what people are trying to say about this.  Why would I 
Empty Trash if I haven't placed something in there in the first place? 
And why wouldn't moving something there actually *put* it *there* for 
action?


All I know is that I do what I do and I very rarely get Compact Folders 
notification(s).


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Chris Ilias]

On 12-07-23 7:52 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually delete
the e-mails from your "inbox",


That part is right. :)


it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.


That part is not right. Emptying the trash will delete messages from 
your trash folder, not the inbox, then it will compact the trash folder, 
not the inbox.

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:


Jens Hatlak wrote:


Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion
and removes them from your sight.

They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!


Wrong (just checked). Please don't give such false advice, especially if
it results in data loss without any undo possibility. The Empty Trash
command actually includes a Compact Folder call.


Daniel said emptying Trash doesn't delete the email from the Inbox. I
believe his statement to be true. The only way to remove an email from
Inbox that was moved to Trash is to compact the Inbox. He was not
addressing what happens in Trash.


Jens used the singular "Compact Folder" -- if that was intentional, then 
only the Trash would be compacted. But if he meant to use the plural, 
"Compact Folders" would compact all folders in the account, including 
Inbox, and his comment would be relevant.


--
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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

> As Beauregard already noted, what you wrote is probably true if read
> exactly.

Jens, since my crystal ball is out at the cleaners, I didn't know of any 
other way to read it.   :-)

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
delete
the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.

They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!


Wrong (just checked). Please don't give such false advice, especially if
it results in data loss without any undo possibility. The Empty Trash
command actually includes a Compact Folder call.


When did this action change?? Perhaps we users should have had it drawn
to our attention!!


As Beauregard already noted, what you wrote is probably true if read
exactly. Empty Trash does in fact not touch the Inbox, only the Trash
folder. For the latter it includes a Compact Folder call.

[It didn't appear to me that anyone could think that Empty Trash would
affect other folders.]

HTH

Jens



...so...Empty Trash actually *does/should* reduce the size of the Inbox 
because the user has moved the files to the Trash so they no longer 
reside in the Inbox, and the Trash Compacts on Empty.


If it doesn't work that way, it should!  That would be what one would 
expect.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Daniel wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Daniel wrote:






Wow!! My whole mail profile is only 30.9MB, with the inbox being 15.7MB.



I'll bet mine isn't 1M - I tend to Save/Delete/Empty Trash/Mark Read on
completion of session, so I generally don't see Compact Folders
requests.  In fact I can't remember the last time I saw one.

I think user habit gets into the mix and one has to set a limit that
works with their own habit.



Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually delete
the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.

They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!



No, I didn't know that...but I still don't see Compact notices.

...that sounds a bit counter-intuitive.

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Jens Hatlak]

Daniel wrote:

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually delete
the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.

They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!


Wrong (just checked). Please don't give such false advice, especially if
it results in data loss without any undo possibility. The Empty Trash
command actually includes a Compact Folder call.


When did this action change?? Perhaps we users should have had it drawn
to our attention!!


As Beauregard already noted, what you wrote is probably true if read 
exactly. Empty Trash does in fact not touch the Inbox, only the Trash 
folder. For the latter it includes a Compact Folder call.


[It didn't appear to me that anyone could think that Empty Trash would 
affect other folders.]


HTH

Jens

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually delete
the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.

They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!


Wrong (just checked). Please don't give such false advice, especially if
it results in data loss without any undo possibility. The Empty Trash
command actually includes a Compact Folder call.

Greetings,

Jens



When did this action change?? Perhaps we users should have had it drawn 
to our attention!!



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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

> Daniel wrote:
>> Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually
>> delete the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion
>> and removes them from your sight.
>>
>> They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!
> 
> Wrong (just checked). Please don't give such false advice, especially if
> it results in data loss without any undo possibility. The Empty Trash
> command actually includes a Compact Folder call.

Daniel said emptying Trash doesn't delete the email from the Inbox. I 
believe his statement to be true. The only way to remove an email from 
Inbox that was moved to Trash is to compact the Inbox. He was not 
addressing what happens in Trash.

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Jens Hatlak]

Daniel wrote:

Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually delete
the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion and
removes them from your sight.

They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!


Wrong (just checked). Please don't give such false advice, especially if 
it results in data loss without any undo possibility. The Empty Trash 
command actually includes a Compact Folder call.


Greetings,

Jens

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Rufus wrote:

Daniel wrote:






Wow!! My whole mail profile is only 30.9MB, with the inbox being 15.7MB.



I'll bet mine isn't 1M - I tend to Save/Delete/Empty Trash/Mark Read on
completion of session, so I generally don't see Compact Folders
requests.  In fact I can't remember the last time I saw one.

I think user habit gets into the mix and one has to set a limit that
works with their own habit.



Rufus, I hope you remember that emptying trash *doesn't* actually delete 
the e-mails from your "inbox", it just marks them for deletion and 
removes them from your sight.


They are not actually deleted until you compact your files!!

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

Daniel wrote:

flyguy wrote:

On 7/21/2012 3:34 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus wrote:

JC wrote:

On Friday, July 20, 2012 11:26:31 AM UTC-7, Rufus wrote:

curl...@earthlink.net wrote:
> I had this problem before upgrading to SeaMonkey 2.11.  I'm
on an iMac using OS 10.6.8.  I had this constant prompt to
"Compact my folders" and I had read about this being a
problem.  I thought it was to be corrected with the upgrade to 2.11.
But, it is still happening.  Any help on this issue??
>
> Very frustrating!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>

Check Preferences/Mail&Newsgroups/Network&Storage and look at
your
settings for Disk Space.  Either uncheck the option, or set it to
something "reasonable".

I have my setting at 20 MB (which seems a bit low, now that I think
about it) and I hardly ever see a prompt to Compact; same setup as
you -
iMac running 10.6.8.

--
   - Rufus

Rufus,

Thanks for the email.  I just de-selected the option and that may have
done the trick.  The setting was already at 20MB and that wasn't
resolving it.



Hope that will work out for you.

I don't know why I've left mine at the seeming default - something like
500-750 MB seems a better choice.  Maybe I don't see requests because I
always mark my headers "read" at the end of each session?



20 Mb, golly gosh!!

I'm on Linux, so that might account for the difference, but in
Edit->Preferences->Mail & Newsgroups->Network & Storage, I've got Disk
Space, Compact folders when it will save over 1 MB!!

Don't know how big a mail folder has to be in order to possibly save 1
MB, but a 20 MB mail file looks a bit large, IMHO!!


Mine is set at 500 MB, which is only a few hundred emails when some
contain up to 10 MB of attachments. If it compacted for only 20 mb, it'd
be compacting hourly.



Wow!! My whole mail profile is only 30.9MB, with the inbox being 15.7MB.



I'll bet mine isn't 1M - I tend to Save/Delete/Empty Trash/Mark Read on 
completion of session, so I generally don't see Compact Folders 
requests.  In fact I can't remember the last time I saw one.


I think user habit gets into the mix and one has to set a limit that 
works with their own habit.


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

flyguy wrote:

On 7/21/2012 3:34 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus wrote:

JC wrote:

On Friday, July 20, 2012 11:26:31 AM UTC-7, Rufus wrote:

curl...@earthlink.net wrote:
> I had this problem before upgrading to SeaMonkey 2.11.  I'm
on an iMac using OS 10.6.8.  I had this constant prompt to
"Compact my folders" and I had read about this being a
problem.  I thought it was to be corrected with the upgrade to 2.11.
But, it is still happening.  Any help on this issue??
>
> Very frustrating!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>

Check Preferences/Mail&Newsgroups/Network&Storage and look at
your
settings for Disk Space.  Either uncheck the option, or set it to
something "reasonable".

I have my setting at 20 MB (which seems a bit low, now that I think
about it) and I hardly ever see a prompt to Compact; same setup as
you -
iMac running 10.6.8.

--
   - Rufus

Rufus,

Thanks for the email.  I just de-selected the option and that may have
done the trick.  The setting was already at 20MB and that wasn't
resolving it.



Hope that will work out for you.

I don't know why I've left mine at the seeming default - something like
500-750 MB seems a better choice.  Maybe I don't see requests because I
always mark my headers "read" at the end of each session?



20 Mb, golly gosh!!

I'm on Linux, so that might account for the difference, but in
Edit->Preferences->Mail & Newsgroups->Network & Storage, I've got Disk
Space, Compact folders when it will save over 1 MB!!

Don't know how big a mail folder has to be in order to possibly save 1
MB, but a 20 MB mail file looks a bit large, IMHO!!


Mine is set at 500 MB, which is only a few hundred emails when some
contain up to 10 MB of attachments. If it compacted for only 20 mb, it'd
be compacting hourly.



Wow!! My whole mail profile is only 30.9MB, with the inbox being 15.7MB.

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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[flyguy]

On 7/21/2012 3:34 AM, Daniel wrote:

Rufus wrote:

JC wrote:

On Friday, July 20, 2012 11:26:31 AM UTC-7, Rufus wrote:

curl...@earthlink.net wrote:
> I had this problem before upgrading to SeaMonkey 2.11.  I'm
on an iMac using OS 10.6.8.  I had this constant prompt to
"Compact my folders" and I had read about this being a
problem.  I thought it was to be corrected with the upgrade to 2.11.
But, it is still happening.  Any help on this issue??
>
> Very frustrating!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>

Check Preferences/Mail&Newsgroups/Network&Storage and look at
your
settings for Disk Space.  Either uncheck the option, or set it to
something "reasonable".

I have my setting at 20 MB (which seems a bit low, now that I think
about it) and I hardly ever see a prompt to Compact; same setup as
you -
iMac running 10.6.8.

--
   - Rufus

Rufus,

Thanks for the email.  I just de-selected the option and that may have
done the trick.  The setting was already at 20MB and that wasn't
resolving it.



Hope that will work out for you.

I don't know why I've left mine at the seeming default - something like
500-750 MB seems a better choice.  Maybe I don't see requests because I
always mark my headers "read" at the end of each session?



20 Mb, golly gosh!!

I'm on Linux, so that might account for the difference, but in
Edit->Preferences->Mail & Newsgroups->Network & Storage, I've got Disk
Space, Compact folders when it will save over 1 MB!!

Don't know how big a mail folder has to be in order to possibly save 1
MB, but a 20 MB mail file looks a bit large, IMHO!!


Mine is set at 500 MB, which is only a few hundred emails when some 
contain up to 10 MB of attachments. If it compacted for only 20 mb, it'd 
be compacting hourly.



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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Daniel]

Rufus wrote:

JC wrote:

On Friday, July 20, 2012 11:26:31 AM UTC-7, Rufus wrote:

curl...@earthlink.net wrote:
> I had this problem before upgrading to SeaMonkey 2.11.  I'm
on an iMac using OS 10.6.8.  I had this constant prompt to
"Compact my folders" and I had read about this being a
problem.  I thought it was to be corrected with the upgrade to 2.11.
But, it is still happening.  Any help on this issue??
>
> Very frustrating!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>

Check Preferences/Mail&Newsgroups/Network&Storage and look at
your
settings for Disk Space.  Either uncheck the option, or set it to
something "reasonable".

I have my setting at 20 MB (which seems a bit low, now that I think
about it) and I hardly ever see a prompt to Compact; same setup as you -
iMac running 10.6.8.

--
   - Rufus

Rufus,

Thanks for the email.  I just de-selected the option and that may have
done the trick.  The setting was already at 20MB and that wasn't
resolving it.



Hope that will work out for you.

I don't know why I've left mine at the seeming default - something like
500-750 MB seems a better choice.  Maybe I don't see requests because I
always mark my headers "read" at the end of each session?



20 Mb, golly gosh!!

I'm on Linux, so that might account for the difference, but in 
Edit->Preferences->Mail & Newsgroups->Network & Storage, I've got Disk 
Space, Compact folders when it will save over 1 MB!!


Don't know how big a mail folder has to be in order to possibly save 1 
MB, but a 20 MB mail file looks a bit large, IMHO!!



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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

JC wrote:

On Friday, July 20, 2012 11:26:31 AM UTC-7, Rufus wrote:

curl...@earthlink.net wrote:
> I had this problem before upgrading to SeaMonkey 2.11.  I'm on an iMac using 
OS 10.6.8.  I had this constant prompt to "Compact my folders" and I had read 
about this being a problem.  I thought it was to be corrected with the upgrade to 2.11.  But, 
it is still happening.  Any help on this issue??
>
> Very frustrating!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>

Check Preferences/Mail&Newsgroups/Network&Storage and look at your
settings for Disk Space.  Either uncheck the option, or set it to
something "reasonable".

I have my setting at 20 MB (which seems a bit low, now that I think
about it) and I hardly ever see a prompt to Compact; same setup as you -
iMac running 10.6.8.

--
   - Rufus

Rufus,

Thanks for the email.  I just de-selected the option and that may have done the 
trick.  The setting was already at 20MB and that wasn't resolving it.



Hope that will work out for you.

I don't know why I've left mine at the seeming default - something like 
500-750 MB seems a better choice.  Maybe I don't see requests because I 
always mark my headers "read" at the end of each session?


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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[JC]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 11:26:31 AM UTC-7, Rufus wrote:
> curl...@earthlink.net wrote:
> > I had this problem before upgrading to SeaMonkey 2.11.  I'm on an 
> iMac using OS 10.6.8.  I had this constant prompt to "Compact my 
> folders" and I had read about this being a problem.  I thought it was to 
> be corrected with the upgrade to 2.11.  But, it is still happening.  Any help 
> on this issue??
> >
> > Very frustrating!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> 
> Check Preferences/Mail&Newsgroups/Network&Storage and look at your 
> settings for Disk Space.  Either uncheck the option, or set it to 
> something "reasonable".
> 
> I have my setting at 20 MB (which seems a bit low, now that I think 
> about it) and I hardly ever see a prompt to Compact; same setup as you - 
> iMac running 10.6.8.
> 
> -- 
>   - Rufus
Rufus,

Thanks for the email.  I just de-selected the option and that may have done the 
trick.  The setting was already at 20MB and that wasn't resolving it.
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Re: Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[Rufus]

curl...@earthlink.net wrote:

I had this problem before upgrading to SeaMonkey 2.11.  I'm on an iMac using OS 10.6.8.  
I had this constant prompt to "Compact my folders" and I had read about this 
being a problem.  I thought it was to be corrected with the upgrade to 2.11.  But, it is 
still happening.  Any help on this issue??

Very frustrating!

Thanks,

Jim



Check Preferences/Mail&Newsgroups/Network&Storage and look at your 
settings for Disk Space.  Either uncheck the option, or set it to 
something "reasonable".


I have my setting at 20 MB (which seems a bit low, now that I think 
about it) and I hardly ever see a prompt to Compact; same setup as you - 
iMac running 10.6.8.


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Compact Folder Constant Reminder

[curland]

I had this problem before upgrading to SeaMonkey 2.11.  I'm on an iMac using OS 
10.6.8.  I had this constant prompt to "Compact my folders" and I had read 
about this being a problem.  I thought it was to be corrected with the upgrade 
to 2.11.  But, it is still happening.  Any help on this issue??

Very frustrating!

Thanks,

Jim
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Re: compact folder

[Ray_Net]

Daniel Barclay wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Daniel Barclay wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Beverly Howard wrote:

>> if the folder is re-created uncompacted - there is not an easy way
to recover an old message <<

...

These SM "folders" are actually files that can be opened with a text
editor.

...


you can then search the file contents for something in the message or
header, then copy the message and paste and access it elsewhere.

If the file has an attachment, it will be in mime format and follow
the
message header and message text. The mime can be copied to a new text
file, saved and then decoded with a utility such as uuDeview

Hope that this information is of value.


Yes ... but not an easy way :-)


Remember that the easy way (once you know how to edit the file without
making any unintentional changes) is to find the "X-Mozilla-Status:
"
line for the appropriate message and change the fourth digit of the
hexadecimal status code
from '8' to '0',
from '9' to '1',
from 'a' to '2',
from 'b' to '3',
from 'c' to '4',
from 'd' to '5',
from 'e' to '6', or
from 'f' to '7'.

Daniel




Do you mean that i must change d8af to 5027 ?


No; that would be changing all four digits of the hexadecimal status
code. Change only the _fourth_ digit (fourth from the left, or last).

(When I wrote "digit" I did mean "digit" (and not "bit"). Of course,
if you do want to think in terms of bits: clear the 0x0008 bit, the
fourth-least-significant bit, bit number three in little-endian
numbering starting at zero).))

For example, if you see a message with this:
X-Mozilla-Status: 0009
(which indicates that the message was marked as read and that the copy
of the message was deleted from the file/mail folder), change it to
this:
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
to undelete that copy of the message.


I had just understand four instead of fourth :-)

OK, that's really the best way to recover a deleted message.
Therefore SM developers can add the action "undelete" messages in a 
folder instead of "uncompact".

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Re: compact folder

[Daniel Barclay]

Ray_Net wrote:

Daniel Barclay wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Beverly Howard wrote:

>> if the folder is re-created uncompacted - there is not an easy way
to recover an old message <<

...

These SM "folders" are actually files that can be opened with a text
editor.

...


you can then search the file contents for something in the message or
header, then copy the message and paste and access it elsewhere.

If the file has an attachment, it will be in mime format and follow the
message header and message text. The mime can be copied to a new text
file, saved and then decoded with a utility such as uuDeview

Hope that this information is of value.


Yes ... but not an easy way :-)


Remember that the easy way (once you know how to edit the file without
making any unintentional changes) is to find the "X-Mozilla-Status: "
line for the appropriate message and change the fourth digit of the
hexadecimal status code
from '8' to '0',
from '9' to '1',
from 'a' to '2',
from 'b' to '3',
from 'c' to '4',
from 'd' to '5',
from 'e' to '6', or
from 'f' to '7'.

Daniel




Do you mean that i must change d8af to 5027 ?


No; that would be changing all four digits of the hexadecimal status
code.  Change only the _fourth_ digit (fourth from the left, or last).

(When I wrote "digit" I did mean "digit" (and not "bit").  Of course,
if you do want to think in terms of bits:  clear the 0x0008 bit, the
fourth-least-significant bit, bit number three in little-endian
numbering starting at zero).))

For example, if you see a message with this:
  X-Mozilla-Status: 0009
(which indicates that the message was marked as read and that the copy
of the message was deleted from the file/mail folder), change it to
this:
  X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
to undelete that copy of the message.

(Actually, simply setting the status to  might be sufficient, but
that would cause SeaMonkey to forget whether the message was marked
as read and some other things--some of which don't matter, but some of
which might.)



Daniel


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Re: compact folder

[Ray_Net]

Daniel Barclay wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Beverly Howard wrote:

>> if the folder is re-created uncompacted - there is not an easy way
to recover an old message <<

...

These SM "folders" are actually files that can be opened with a text
editor.

...


you can then search the file contents for something in the message or
header, then copy the message and paste and access it elsewhere.

If the file has an attachment, it will be in mime format and follow the
message header and message text. The mime can be copied to a new text
file, saved and then decoded with a utility such as uuDeview

Hope that this information is of value.


Yes ... but not an easy way :-)


Remember that the easy way (once you know how to edit the file without
making any unintentional changes) is to find the "X-Mozilla-Status: "
line for the appropriate message and change the fourth digit of the
hexadecimal status code
from '8' to '0',
from '9' to '1',
from 'a' to '2',
from 'b' to '3',
from 'c' to '4',
from 'd' to '5',
from 'e' to '6', or
from 'f' to '7'.

Daniel




Do you mean that i must change d8af to 5027 ?
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Re: compact folder

[Daniel Barclay]

Ray_Net wrote:

Beverly Howard wrote:

>> if the folder is re-created uncompacted - there is not an easy way
to recover an old message <<

...

These SM "folders" are actually files that can be opened with a text
editor.

...


you can then search the file contents for something in the message or
header, then copy the message and paste and access it elsewhere.

If the file has an attachment, it will be in mime format and follow the
message header and message text. The mime can be copied to a new text
file, saved and then decoded with a utility such as uuDeview

Hope that this information is of value.


Yes ... but not an easy way :-)


Remember that the easy way (once you know how to edit the file without
making any unintentional changes) is to find the "X-Mozilla-Status: "
line for the appropriate message and change the fourth digit of the
hexadecimal status code
from '8' to '0',
from '9' to '1',
from 'a' to '2',
from 'b' to '3',
from 'c' to '4',
from 'd' to '5',
from 'e' to '6', or
from 'f' to '7'.

Daniel



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Re: compact folder

[NoOp]

On 09/18/2010 09:05 PM, Norvin wrote:
> I screwed up and hit the compact folder and now I need to un-compact the 
> folder. Help doesn't show any compact items, any suggestion.
> TIA

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Compacting_folders

Undoing compacting

You cannot undo compacting, in other words there is no such thing as
"uncompacting". Compacting physically removes messages marked for
deletion and hidden from view. Once they're gone, they're gone. Don't
confuse compacting a folder with compressing or zipping it.

Usually somebody asks how to "uncompact" a folder when they have lost
messages due to compacting. You shouldn't lose messages when compacting
unless a folder was badly corrupted, in which case you'd probably have
already noticed problems such as message fragments, several messages
with a date of 1969 (due to the Date: header in a message being
deleted), "resurrected" deleted messages, or long startup times because
Thunderbird gets caught in a loop parsing (analysing) the inbox.


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Re: compact folder

[Ray_Net]

Beverly Howard wrote:

 >> if the folder is re-created uncompacted - there is not an easy way
to recover an old message <<

Unless something has changed, it's not necessary to "uncompact" the
folder...

These SM "folders" are actually files that can be opened with a text
editor.

close sm before opening them with a text editor, and, if possible, open
the file "read only" (which is an option in many text editors such as
TextPad)

you can then search the file contents for something in the message or
header, then copy the message and paste and access it elsewhere.

If the file has an attachment, it will be in mime format and follow the
message header and message text. The mime can be copied to a new text
file, saved and then decoded with a utility such as uuDeview

Hope that this information is of value.


Yes ... but not an easy way :-)
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Re: compact folder

[Daniel Barclay]

Jay Garcia wrote:


Interesting note, this is true, the file(s) are still in the INBOX if
you view in Wordpad for instance. However, after deletion under normal
functionality, the file(s) is still there but after compacting, the
file(s) are still there in the INBOX file. What's up with that?


Do you mean "files" or "messages"?

If "messages":  If messages that were logically deleted or moved from
a folder really remain after compacting that folder, I have no idea
what's going on.  (Are you sure that folder actually got compacted?
Sometimes when I do "Compact Folders" SeaMonkey only compacts one or
some folders, and have to try "Compact Folders" again, rebuild indexes
and try again, or go to an individual folder and do "Compact Folder").

If "files":  Are you referring to files under an Inbox/INBOX folder
that represent mail folders under the Inbox/INBOX mail folder?


Daniel
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Re: compact folder

[Jay Garcia]

On 20.09.2010 13:08, Beverly Howard wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

>>> if the folder is re-created uncompacted - there is not an easy way to
> recover an old message <<
> 
> Unless something has changed, it's not necessary to "uncompact" the
> folder...
> 
> These SM "folders" are actually files that can be opened with a text
> editor.
> 
> close sm before opening them with a text editor, and, if possible, open
> the file "read only" (which is an option in many text editors such as
> TextPad)
> 
> you can then search the file contents for something in the message or
> header, then copy the message and paste and access it elsewhere.
> 
> If the file has an attachment, it will be in mime format and follow the
> message header and message text.  The mime can be copied to a new text
> file, saved and then decoded with a utility such as uuDeview
> 
> Hope that this information is of value.
> Beverly Howard
> 
> 

I just did a definitive test.

1. Deleted an email message out of the inbox by the traditional method,
message is located in the Trash folder and is visible.
2. Emptied "Trash" - message is marked for deletion and not visible
3. Closed SM, located the INBOX (file), 1511 kb was the filesize
4. Located the deleted message
5. Restarted SM, hilited INBOX
6. Did FILE => Compact Folder, exited SM
7. The INBOX file is now 0 kb, message gone and not recoverable by any
means that I know of.

The key here is the "compact folder" function. If implemented, the
message is gone. Trick is to NOT compact folders either manually or
automatically if you're that concerned about message retrieval, etc., if
disaster strikes. The other "trick" obviously is to pay attention. ;-)


-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
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Re: compact folder

[Phillip Jones]

Jay Garcia wrote:

On 20.09.2010 12:57, Jay Garcia wrote:

  --- Original Message ---


On 20.09.2010 12:40, Daniel Barclay wrote:

  --- Original Message ---


Jay Garcia wrote:



...  When mail is deleted it's marked for
deletion as you said. Mail can only be recovered that has been deleted
only IF the folders haven't been compacted. Until then, the deleted
message actually resides in the related .MSF file which can be read to
some degree in Wordpad for instance.


The deleted message still resides in the original mail file (not the
corresponding .msf file).

Also, note that one normally has three chances to recover a deleted
message:

1. Obviously, when regular deletion logically moves a message to the
Trash folder, the message is available normally from the Trash
folder.

2. That logical moving physically copies the message to the file that
implements the Trash folder, leaving the original copy in the file
that implements the original folder, but marking that original copy
as being deleted.  It remains there until that folder is compacted.

If you (very carefully*) open the file to edit it, find the message,
find its X-Mozilla-Status header field, and turn off the "deleted"
bit (e.g., "X-Mozilla-Status: 0009" ->  "X-Mozilla-Status: 0001",
etc.), and do Rebuild Index on the mail folder, the message will be
"undeleted" and available normally.

(*Don't try editing the file without making a backup copy unless you
really know what you're doing.  It's probably safer to copy the
original file to a work file, edit that, re-start SeaMonkey so it
notices the work file, copy your wanted message to somewhere else,
and then delete the work file (which will also contain duplicate
copies of other message in the original folder/file).)

3. _If_ you delete the message from the Trash folder using the
delete-message command (_NOT_ Empty Trash), the copy in the file
the implements the Trash folder is marked deleted (as above) until
the Trash folder is compacted (via Compact Folder or Empty Trash).
 It can be recovered the same way as above.


Daniel


Interesting note, this is true, the file(s) are still in the INBOX if
you view in Wordpad for instance. However, after deletion under normal
functionality, the file(s) is still there but after compacting, the
file(s) are still there in the INBOX file. What's up with that?



Ah, found the problem. The INBOX wasn't being compacted unless I hilited
the INBOX and then FILE =>  Compact Folder. Now the file(s) is/are gone.
Best I can remember this isn't the way it was in Netscape and earlier
versions of TB. Also, customizing the toolbar with "Delete" and
"Compact" only refers to the Trash folder.

Thanks for rumbling the old gray matter!!

 In  most version of SeaMonkey if you click on Compact all it compacts 
every email box and sub directory that has had any use.


--
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http://www.phillipmjones.net/   mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: compact folder

[Daniel Barclay]

Norvin wrote:

Norvin wrote:

...

As a follow-up to clarify my problem, I have a file that I will call
'sent emails' and it was getting very large


Did it contain any non-deleted e-mail messages?  (That is, if in SeaMonkey
you opened the "send emails" folder that that file implemented, did
SeaMonkey t say there were a non-zero number of messages in the folder?)


> and I clicked the 'compact

folder' thinking it would give me some options. It didn't but proceeded
to do its thing. After some time, the file showed '0' files and nothing
showed up.


(Do you mean zero _messages_ there?)



If SeaMonkey reports a different number of e-mail messages in a folder
right before and right after compaction, then either:
1) the index (.msf) file had already gotten out of sync with the main
   file implementing that folder (in which case the folder Rebuild Index
   command would have re-synced things and changed the number of messages
   reported), or
2) something went wrong during compaction.

Normally at least, I would not suspect a bug in compaction.  (I've been
manually editing and then compacting lots of mail files to fix corruption
from some other SeaMonkey (1.1.x) bug, and haven't noticed any buggy
behavior in compaction itself.  Compaction copies to a temporary file and
renames it to replace the original file only after completing copying, so
something like killing SeaMonkey while it's compacting won't leave you
with a half-copied mail folder file--just a half-copied temporary file,
which SeaMonkey ignores.)


Daniel



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Re: compact folder

[Beverly Howard]

>> if the folder is re-created uncompacted - there is not an easy way 
to recover an old message <<


Unless something has changed, it's not necessary to "uncompact" the 
folder...


These SM "folders" are actually files that can be opened with a text editor.

close sm before opening them with a text editor, and, if possible, open 
the file "read only" (which is an option in many text editors such as 
TextPad)


you can then search the file contents for something in the message or 
header, then copy the message and paste and access it elsewhere.


If the file has an attachment, it will be in mime format and follow the 
message header and message text.  The mime can be copied to a new text 
file, saved and then decoded with a utility such as uuDeview


Hope that this information is of value.
Beverly Howard


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Re: compact folder

[Jay Garcia]

On 20.09.2010 12:57, Jay Garcia wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 20.09.2010 12:40, Daniel Barclay wrote:
> 
>  --- Original Message ---
> 
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> ...  When mail is deleted it's marked for
>>> deletion as you said. Mail can only be recovered that has been deleted
>>> only IF the folders haven't been compacted. Until then, the deleted
>>> message actually resides in the related .MSF file which can be read to
>>> some degree in Wordpad for instance.
>> 
>> The deleted message still resides in the original mail file (not the
>> corresponding .msf file).
>> 
>> Also, note that one normally has three chances to recover a deleted
>> message:
>> 
>> 1. Obviously, when regular deletion logically moves a message to the
>>Trash folder, the message is available normally from the Trash
>>folder.
>> 
>> 2. That logical moving physically copies the message to the file that
>>implements the Trash folder, leaving the original copy in the file
>>that implements the original folder, but marking that original copy
>>as being deleted.  It remains there until that folder is compacted.
>> 
>>If you (very carefully*) open the file to edit it, find the message,
>>find its X-Mozilla-Status header field, and turn off the "deleted"
>>bit (e.g., "X-Mozilla-Status: 0009" -> "X-Mozilla-Status: 0001",
>>etc.), and do Rebuild Index on the mail folder, the message will be
>>"undeleted" and available normally.
>> 
>>(*Don't try editing the file without making a backup copy unless you
>>really know what you're doing.  It's probably safer to copy the
>>original file to a work file, edit that, re-start SeaMonkey so it
>>notices the work file, copy your wanted message to somewhere else,
>>and then delete the work file (which will also contain duplicate
>>    copies of other message in the original folder/file).)
>> 
>> 3. _If_ you delete the message from the Trash folder using the
>>delete-message command (_NOT_ Empty Trash), the copy in the file
>>the implements the Trash folder is marked deleted (as above) until
>>the Trash folder is compacted (via Compact Folder or Empty Trash).
>> It can be recovered the same way as above.
>> 
>> 
>> Daniel
> 
> Interesting note, this is true, the file(s) are still in the INBOX if
> you view in Wordpad for instance. However, after deletion under normal
> functionality, the file(s) is still there but after compacting, the
> file(s) are still there in the INBOX file. What's up with that?
> 

Ah, found the problem. The INBOX wasn't being compacted unless I hilited
the INBOX and then FILE => Compact Folder. Now the file(s) is/are gone.
Best I can remember this isn't the way it was in Netscape and earlier
versions of TB. Also, customizing the toolbar with "Delete" and
"Compact" only refers to the Trash folder.

Thanks for rumbling the old gray matter!!

-- 
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www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
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Re: compact folder

[Jay Garcia]

On 20.09.2010 12:40, Daniel Barclay wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Jay Garcia wrote:
> 
> 
>> ...  When mail is deleted it's marked for
>> deletion as you said. Mail can only be recovered that has been deleted
>> only IF the folders haven't been compacted. Until then, the deleted
>> message actually resides in the related .MSF file which can be read to
>> some degree in Wordpad for instance.
> 
> The deleted message still resides in the original mail file (not the
> corresponding .msf file).
> 
> Also, note that one normally has three chances to recover a deleted
> message:
> 
> 1. Obviously, when regular deletion logically moves a message to the
>Trash folder, the message is available normally from the Trash
>folder.
> 
> 2. That logical moving physically copies the message to the file that
>implements the Trash folder, leaving the original copy in the file
>that implements the original folder, but marking that original copy
>as being deleted.  It remains there until that folder is compacted.
> 
>If you (very carefully*) open the file to edit it, find the message,
>find its X-Mozilla-Status header field, and turn off the "deleted"
>bit (e.g., "X-Mozilla-Status: 0009" -> "X-Mozilla-Status: 0001",
>etc.), and do Rebuild Index on the mail folder, the message will be
>"undeleted" and available normally.
> 
>(*Don't try editing the file without making a backup copy unless you
>really know what you're doing.  It's probably safer to copy the
>original file to a work file, edit that, re-start SeaMonkey so it
>notices the work file, copy your wanted message to somewhere else,
>and then delete the work file (which will also contain duplicate
>copies of other message in the original folder/file).)
> 
> 3. _If_ you delete the message from the Trash folder using the
>delete-message command (_NOT_ Empty Trash), the copy in the file
>the implements the Trash folder is marked deleted (as above) until
>the Trash folder is compacted (via Compact Folder or Empty Trash).
> It can be recovered the same way as above.
> 
> 
> Daniel

Interesting note, this is true, the file(s) are still in the INBOX if
you view in Wordpad for instance. However, after deletion under normal
functionality, the file(s) is still there but after compacting, the
file(s) are still there in the INBOX file. What's up with that?

-- 
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www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
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Re: compact folder

[Daniel Barclay]

Jay Garcia wrote:



...  When mail is deleted it's marked for
deletion as you said. Mail can only be recovered that has been deleted
only IF the folders haven't been compacted. Until then, the deleted
message actually resides in the related .MSF file which can be read to
some degree in Wordpad for instance.


The deleted message still resides in the original mail file (not the
corresponding .msf file).

Also, note that one normally has three chances to recover a deleted
message:

1. Obviously, when regular deletion logically moves a message to the
   Trash folder, the message is available normally from the Trash
   folder.

2. That logical moving physically copies the message to the file that
   implements the Trash folder, leaving the original copy in the file
   that implements the original folder, but marking that original copy
   as being deleted.  It remains there until that folder is compacted.

   If you (very carefully*) open the file to edit it, find the message,
   find its X-Mozilla-Status header field, and turn off the "deleted"
   bit (e.g., "X-Mozilla-Status: 0009" -> "X-Mozilla-Status: 0001",
   etc.), and do Rebuild Index on the mail folder, the message will be
   "undeleted" and available normally.

   (*Don't try editing the file without making a backup copy unless you
   really know what you're doing.  It's probably safer to copy the
   original file to a work file, edit that, re-start SeaMonkey so it
   notices the work file, copy your wanted message to somewhere else,
   and then delete the work file (which will also contain duplicate
   copies of other message in the original folder/file).)

3. _If_ you delete the message from the Trash folder using the
   delete-message command (_NOT_ Empty Trash), the copy in the file
   the implements the Trash folder is marked deleted (as above) until
   the Trash folder is compacted (via Compact Folder or Empty Trash).
It can be recovered the same way as above.


Daniel
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Re: compact folder

[Norvin]

Norvin wrote:
I screwed up and hit the compact folder and now I need to un-compact the 
folder. Help doesn't show any compact items, any suggestion.

TIA

As a follow-up to clarify my problem, I have a file that I will call
'sent emails' and it was getting very large and I clicked the 'compact
folder' thinking it would give me some options. It didn't but proceeded 
to do its thing. After some time, the file showed '0' files and nothing

showed up. I looked up in SM help, but there is nothing listed regarding
'compact', I thought this strange since it is listed as an option if you
right click on a email folder. Anyway, I worked my way around it and 
marked it up as a learning experience.

Thanks for all the suggestion and possibilities.
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Re: compact folder

[Jay Garcia]

On 20.09.2010 04:09, Ray_Net wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

>> If so, check the recycle bin,
> 
> When a file is deleted programmatically, i think that it is not copied
> into the recycle bin.

That is correct. And IF you do a shift+delete, the message(s) bypass the
trash folder and are gone.

>  and, if the message is critical, it might
>> be possible to use a file recovery tool to recover the file. If the file
>> is simply re-written, the only recovery option would be to recover the
>> file for the folder from a backup.
> 
> This is the best approach. BUT ... if the folder is re-created
> uncompacted - there is not an easy way to recover an old message.

Most backup solutions usually turn back the clock, so to speak but
depends on compaction like you said. Best of course is to pay attention. ;-)

Using the archive feature/funtion can sometimes prevent tragedy.

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Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
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Re: compact folder

[Jay Garcia]

On 19.09.2010 22:46, Beverly Howard wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> As with computer files, when you delete a message, it is not deleted,
> simply marked as deleted in order to save time.
> 
> Deleted messages are copied to the relevant "trash" folder, so you might
> look there if it has not been emptied since the deletion.  If you
> "empty" the trash the entire contents are permanently deleted.
> 
> When you compact a folder, the entire contents of the folder are scanned
> and rewritten only if they are not marked as deleted.  I assume (but
> don't know) that seamonkey rights the visible messages to a new file,
> then deletes the old file and gives the new file the same name as the old.
> 
> If so, check the recycle bin, and, if the message is critical, it might
> be possible to use a file recovery tool to recover the file.  If the
> file is simply re-written, the only recovery option would be to recover
> the file for the folder from a backup.
> 
> Beverly Howard

First of all please quote relevant text from the reply that you are
referring to, thanks.

Deleted mail does not wind up in the recycle bin and there are no
recovery tools available that I am aware of to recover deleted mail once
the folder(s) is compacted. When mail is deleted it's marked for
deletion as you said. Mail can only be recovered that has been deleted
only IF the folders haven't been compacted. Until then, the deleted
message actually resides in the related .MSF file which can be read to
some degree in Wordpad for instance.

A good backup solution is a wise move. One such backup application is
MozBackup - http://mozbackup.jasnapaka.com/




-- 
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www.ufaq.org
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Re: compact folder

[Ray_Net]

Beverly Howard wrote:

As with computer files, when you delete a message, it is not deleted,
simply marked as deleted in order to save time.

Deleted messages are copied to the relevant "trash" folder, so you might
look there if it has not been emptied since the deletion. If you "empty"
the trash the entire contents are permanently deleted.

When you compact a folder, the entire contents of the folder are scanned
and rewritten only if they are not marked as deleted. I assume (but
don't know) that seamonkey rights the visible messages to a new file,
then deletes the old file and gives the new file the same name as the old.

If so, check the recycle bin,


When a file is deleted programmatically, i think that it is not copied 
into the recycle bin.


 and, if the message is critical, it might

be possible to use a file recovery tool to recover the file. If the file
is simply re-written, the only recovery option would be to recover the
file for the folder from a backup.


This is the best approach. BUT ... if the folder is re-created 
uncompacted - there is not an easy way to recover an old message.

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Re: compact folder

[Beverly Howard]

As with computer files, when you delete a message, it is not deleted, 
simply marked as deleted in order to save time.


Deleted messages are copied to the relevant "trash" folder, so you might 
look there if it has not been emptied since the deletion.  If you 
"empty" the trash the entire contents are permanently deleted.


When you compact a folder, the entire contents of the folder are scanned 
and rewritten only if they are not marked as deleted.  I assume (but 
don't know) that seamonkey rights the visible messages to a new file, 
then deletes the old file and gives the new file the same name as the old.


If so, check the recycle bin, and, if the message is critical, it might 
be possible to use a file recovery tool to recover the file.  If the 
file is simply re-written, the only recovery option would be to recover 
the file for the folder from a backup.


Beverly Howard
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Re: compact folder

[Mark Hansen]

On 9/18/2010 9:05 PM, Norvin wrote:
> I screwed up and hit the compact folder and now I need to un-compact the 
> folder. Help doesn't show any compact items, any suggestion.
> TIA

Compact folder just cleans up the unused space and re-organizes the folder.
There is no 'un-compact' operation.

Perhaps you should explain the problem you're having?
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compact folder

[Norvin]

I screwed up and hit the compact folder and now I need to un-compact the 
folder. Help doesn't show any compact items, any suggestion.

TIA
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Re: Feat. request: "compact folder" button

[Lucas Levrel]

Le 17 avril 2009, Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo a écrit :
> you can request such things here at bugzilla: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/

Thanks. Request filed at
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=489318

-- 
LL
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Re: Feat. request: "compact folder" button

[Bill Davidsen]

Lucas Levrel wrote:

Hi,

It would be nice if Seamonkey Mail had a toolbar button to do "Compact 
this folder" (a context-menu item which erases from an IMAP folder 
messages marked as deleted).


How shall I submit such a feature request? Unless there's already a way to 
create custom buttons?


Given that it's already 1.5 clicks away, I'm not sure it's a good investment in 
real estate.


--
Bill Davidsen 
  "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot
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Re: Feat. request: "compact folder" button

[Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo]

Lucas Levrel wrote:

Hi,

It would be nice if Seamonkey Mail had a toolbar button to do "Compact 
this folder" (a context-menu item which erases from an IMAP folder 
messages marked as deleted).


How shall I submit such a feature request? Unless there's already a way to 
create custom buttons?


Thanks.



you can request such things here at bugzilla: 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/


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Feat. request: "compact folder" button

[Lucas Levrel]

Hi,

It would be nice if Seamonkey Mail had a toolbar button to do "Compact 
this folder" (a context-menu item which erases from an IMAP folder 
messages marked as deleted).

How shall I submit such a feature request? Unless there's already a way to 
create custom buttons?

Thanks.

-- 
LL
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