[biofuel] Glycerine
Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't bank on receipts for crude glycerin to make a business plan work. In house refining or conversion maybe. That's what I'm being told, so I'm looking into products FROM glycerine that have a larger market and/or higher market value. Acrolein (which you don't approve of, but which forms the basis of manufacture of all the ubiquitous acrylic resins) is relatively easily obtained by fermentation. Other products involving glycerine (I'm concentrating on resins suitable for varnishes and paints, for reasons I won't bore you with) are: furfural (derivable from cellulose) and glycerin give a black condensation polymer (Gabillion, 1931) polymerisation of acrolein in presence of alkali gives a white resin soluble in alcohol, acetone and some hydrocarbons. [Sounds like a replacement for shellac in alcohol solution, but it would also have the same problems as shellac when used on tabletops and floors.] A similar process applies to the fatty aldehydes, derivable from the fatty acids. glycerine condenses with various fatty acids in the presence of castor oil to form Bakelite-like plastics which, however, have a wider range of colors including white. (Gabillion again, no further details). Lots of heat and pressure needed in this process, as for Bakelite. Nothing like building an entire city just to make biodiesel, eh? Integrated manufacturing is a sine qua non for making it work economically, at least here in the humid tropics. The trick is coming up with efficient, small plants, or better yet mobile ones. Continuous processing and multiple use equipment are requisite. Lots of work to do here, but also huge potential rewards for the first to come up with a workable system. On another topic: has anybody worked out how many gallons of diesel fuel it takes to transport a gallon of fuel to a remote service station? The answer, I imagine, would be in something like gallons per thousand gallons transported, per mile, or the like. It seems to me that petroleum fuel savings in the sticks should count more than fuel saved near the refinery, but I need to put numbers to it. Best, Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES - whistleblowing
How about an engine that recycles the engine oil at the same rate that it gets exhausted. So essentially you have a tap that pulls out the old oil from the pan and cycles in fresh oil from a reseviour. Depending on the life cycle of the oil and how fast the oil breaks down in viscosity from usable to non. You would never have to change the oil in the engine when the oil gets old you burn it for fuel. If your running a straight virgin oil engine setup you could have a tank to supply the crankcase and a second tank that holds the regular engine fuel that the old crankcase oil gets pumped into supplementally. The purpose is to avoid additive packages and other petro based life extenders. I'm not an oil chemist, so I dont know how viable it is, and wether untreated veg-oil would have a decent usable life span. cheers, cordain. From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES - whistleblowing Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:42:40 +1200 Hi Dave, I suspect a lot of what you are saying below is probably true but dont know what the answers are. I believe vegetable oils just like mineral oils need additives to achieve extended life and minimal wear and tear. At least all the evidence and research points that way. The options seem to be using large amounts of oil with minimum additives and a short life, or a much smaller amount of oil with high additive levels and a much longer life. Either way the result seems to be the same. In the end we rely on good old Mother Nature to eventually break the results down or disperse them with more entering the food chain all the time. The rise of the motor car may well be the demise of man for all we know. Perhaps thats a good thing because the real disease on this planet seems to be man rather than foot and mouth, ebola, and all those other things. Perhaps it is just as well that oil will run out in 70 years (half that by my estimate). The sooner we get some of these other technologies on line the better. B.r., David - Original Message - From: David Preskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:28 PM Subject: [biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES - whistleblowing List, Engine oil already done. See http://www.agromgt.com/prod01.htm Problem is it needs loadsa additives. Theirs is based on rape (canola) last I heard coz its got a high (60%) oleic acid content, good in boundary lubrication, thermal stability, etc. but its a start and I think their philosophy is bang on course. Patent issued 1997- ish. Additives are very nasty and its all kept very quiet by the additive companies (Lubrizol, Henkel) although I enjoy treading on their toes. Mineral oil is useless without additives and I've heard it said if these companies stop production, the oil companies fall. Its something I've been researching for about ten years now and which is why I'm passionate about veg oils replacing mineral, whether for bio-diesel or lubricants. Most lube oils and fuels contain scary compounds - chemists out there should recognise dithiocarbamates, most of us have heard of organo-phosphates. Well theres also organo-chlorine, organo-sulphur (smell gear oil - hypoid EP90 - thats the sulphur). Heard about the fumes in aircraft cabins and pilots passing out? - see muchos debatoes in UK Parliament on tricresyl phosphate used in hydraulic oils (no action though). Check it out and don't fly again. Of course there's no relationship between these compounds and nerve gases! That would mean they've been lying to us. These companies are f*g up the world for us all. Check out the list below, get some MSDS on these compounds (and don't ever get mineral oil lubricants on your hands again). Note it is groups of compounds, no specifics. Ring Lubrizol for a laugh and ask them what they are. Dispersants (metallic): Salicylate ester salts, sulfonates, phophonates, thiophosphonates, phenates, phenol sulphide, alkyl substituted salicyclates. Dispersants (ashless): Methacrylate copolymers and acrylate monomers with polar groups (amines, amides, imines, imides, hydroxyl, ether, etc.), vinyl acetae-fumaric acid coplymers, amine salts of high molecular weight organic acids, N-sustituted long-chain alkenyl succiminides. Oxidation and bearing corrosion inhibitors: Organic phosphites, metal dithiocarbamates (ouch!!), sulfufrised olefins, zinc dithiophosphate, phenolic compounds, selenides, amines, phospho-sulphurised terpenes. Anti-wear additives: Organic phosphites, sulfufrised olefins, zinc dithiophosphate, alkaline derivitaves. Viscocity index improves: Polyisobutenes, polymethacrylates, polyacrylates, methacrylate copolymers and acrylate monomers with polar groups (amines, amides, imines, imides, hydroxyl, ether, etc.), vinyl acetae-fumaric acid
RE: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil
Mike, Forget the algae. At the moment it is not worth it. You require huge amounts of land, huge amounts of infrastructure and then the ability to actually grow the little beggers. Oh I forgot to mention, which one do you use? There are many thousands of stains of algae but only a few have been looked at. Like a lot of other people on this list I was fired up about algae, spent some time in the Uni library, had my biochemist wife decipher some things for me and came away with the conclusion that it will require quite a bit of PhD level research and then big $$$ for the setup before it can go ahead. Whilst algae do multiply rapidly thay are a lot harder to grow than corn/canoloa/wheat etc. Regards, Andrew Lowe To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: Mike Brownstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Sun, 20 May 2001 09:03:41 +0200 Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject:RE: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil Here, here Bob, I've been thinking about this for a while now ( I like the idea of algae farms ). Can you, perhaps refer me to more information. You know, which are the best to use, conditions of growing etc.. Mike [SNIP] //***\\ || Two things get me out of the water quickly: || || sharks and toilet paper. || || Billy Connelly || ||***|| || Andrew Lowe B.Eng.(Civil) GradIEAust PEng || || Wombat High Tech *|* Eng. App. Programming|| || [EMAIL PROTECTED] *|* Perth, Australia || || www.wht.com.au *|* C, C++, MDL, Java|| \\***// Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Ethanol compression/mileage
Same way as unleaded gas. Use an additive or. . . Running ethanol in a stocker is a huge waste. The compression should be raised to get decent mileage. I saw photos of an ethanol fueled engine from a taxi with 300k on it. Looked like a gasoline engine with 50k on it. Kirk Kirk, Oddly enough this is the first time I've heard of raising the compression for better mileage. I am going to convert an old motorcycle of mine to E-85. I was told that I should raise the compression but didn't knwo why. Can you explain it to me? Thanks! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Phillip Paton Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 8:58 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] ethanol for older motors Hi I have only recently had my eyes open to the idea of making your own biofuels, and find this list very interesting and informative. thanks I'd like to ask a question regarding using straight ethanol in older motors, originally designed for leaded petrol. The lead had a role in lubricating the valve and preventing valve seat recession. LRP also has an additive for this purpose. With the use of straight ethanol how is the valve lubrication achieved. regards Phil Paton *** This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of the Department of Information Technology Management. This email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. *** Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Message: 3 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 21:55:13 -0600 From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re: Misinformation and Scare Tactics Bush whacked or Gored. Some choice. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 8:54 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Misinformation and Scare Tactics I doubt that you have seen anything yet, but two things that drove us nuts were Tax Cuts and Gun Control (meaning use both hands). In any event we're stuck with him for at least four years, or three years and nine months. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Message: 4 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:32:14 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Misinformation and Scare Tactics Hi Ricky As a non-American who's been fairly well travelled, I am utterly shocked that Americans elected a spoilt rich boy who hasn't a notion of how the rest of the world lives as a president. And now, he seems to be displaying a complete disregard and is serioulsy endangering the future of USA and the world. I think a few billion people might agree with you there. As Marie Antoinette said, The peasants are starving? Then let them eat cake! or words to that effect. Not sure about the copyright, though. :-) Heaven knows if she actually said it or not. Louis XVI was a dull and ill-educated monarch, and he had the misfortune to be married to a silly and extravagant women, Marie Antoinette, the sister of the Austrian emperor... Their, mainly her, extravagance drove France to bankruptcy in 1787 - no more money to pay the loans upon loans upon loans. So, after this and that and the other thing failed to produce any further cash, they threw a grand party at Versailles instead: It
[biofuel] Alcohol as an antifreeze?
Greetings to everyone: It seems to me that before the advent of modern antifreeze, people used alcohol in the cars to keep them from freezing in the winter, (I swear I read that somewhere but can't remember where). Has anyone else ever heard of this? Is it possible? Can a person make their own antifreeze in the same way as making fuel for their automobile? Thanks for the input and guidance, Fischmann [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water / snipping
David said Yes, Ian. I'm testing (for one year ago) with very very stong neodymium magnets from used DC electric motor. A pair of them are in line fuel, and the other in intake. ... but, as I said before, nothing apparent occurs. Hola David, the orientation of the magnets (south pole facing into the fuel line?) apparently alters their effectiveness. Could you describe how your magnets are arranged on the fuel line? -- ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] DD question
I have access to a generator powered with a DD 2-71. Does anyone have any experience with this engine? I have been told it is possible to build a muffler that will work on a DD so the neighbors are not so willing to storm your door with sythes and torches. From my experience a DD is the best way to turn Diesel fuel into noise. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water / snipping
Hello Warren, The orientation (today) is south in fuel lines and north in the air intake. But some time ago, on initial tests, I've reversed poles. My question is: If dyno (and also bio) diesel are'nt magnetic particles or magnetic propierties, how affects a magnet the fuel? Is able with a magnet to dissociate or catalyze some in fuel? Skeptic... Regards David Hola Warren, Actualmente la orientacin es polo sur en las lneas de fuel y norte en la admisin. Pero tiempo atrs, en test iniciales, los polos estaban opuestos. Mi pregunta es: Si el dino (y bio) diesel no tiene partculas o propiedades magnticas, ÀCmo afecta un imn al combustible? ÀEs posible disociar o catalizar con un imn el fuel? Escptico... Saludos David Warren Rekow wrote: David said Yes, Ian. I'm testing (for one year ago) with very very stong neodymium magnets from used DC electric motor. A pair of them are in line fuel, and the other in intake. ... but, as I said before, nothing apparent occurs. Hola David, the orientation of the magnets (south pole facing into the fuel line?) apparently alters their effectiveness. Could you describe how your magnets are arranged on the fuel line? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol compression/mileage
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: [biofuel] Ethanol compression/mileage Same way as unleaded gas. Use an additive or. . . Running ethanol in a stocker is a huge waste. The compression should be raised to get decent mileage. I saw photos of an ethanol fueled engine from a taxi with 300k on it. Looked like a gasoline engine with 50k on it. Kirk Kirk, Oddly enough this is the first time I've heard of raising the compression for better mileage. I am going to convert an old motorcycle of mine to E-85. I was told that I should raise the compression but didn't knwo why. Can you explain it to me? Thanks! ~~~Raising the compression ratio increases an engines' efficiency. When running alcohol as fuel, it is possible (and advisable) to use a higher CR. Alcohol has a much higher 'octane' rating than gasoline as well as a better quenching effect in an engine. The draw backs are ethanol has a much lower vapor pressure than gasoline, thus making cold starts on pure etoh difficult. Since I see you want to use e-85, that won't be a problem (thats why they blend gasoline with etoh, as well as to make it undrinkable). Alcohol has much less heat energy per gallon than gasoline so mpg suffers. Though this is partially offset w/higher CR. But if you raise CR to optimum for alcohol, you will be unable to use gasoline, as it will 'spark knock' and destroy the engine eventually. Then there's the problem of the vehicle weaving all over the road from too high a level of alcohol in its system ;-). JM -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Phillip Paton Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 8:58 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] ethanol for older motors Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] DD question
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: [biofuel] DD question I have access to a generator powered with a DD 2-71. Does anyone have any experience with this engine? I have been told it is possible to build a muffler that will work on a DD so the neighbors are not so willing to storm your door with sythes and torches. From my experience a DD is the best way to turn Diesel fuel into noise. ~~~Putting a muffling devce on the intake side helps (much like the muffler on the air cleaner of my GM 6.2L engine). A better tuned exhaust also helps. Unfortunately noise is the nature of these two-stroke beasts, one reason why DDA has gone to four stroke designs when Roger Penske owned it. Gov regs on noise abatement and all. One other thing to try is to put the gen set in a shed, and add insulation for sound purposes.JM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?
Sam said: I need not, nor have any desire to convince anyone on earth other than myself as to the validity of said circumstances or scientific properties thereof. clip Amen. Sam, you say it so well. 8^) Corrosive diatribes and intolerant cynicism only serve to subvert understanding and hinder our general advancement. You can look at this site: http://www.fut.es/~sje/mag_fuel.htm as they have some info on the subject of magnets in regards to fuel, but do not take anyones word for it. This is the internet after all. Interesting web site. The method of giving opposite magnetic polarities to the incoming air and fuel certainly sounds worth experimenting with. I'll give it a go and see if I can duplicate the results given on that site and by yourself. Thanks. -- ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] City lungs need urgent relief from automobile pollution
http://www.indiaserver.com:80/thehindu/2001/05/18/stories/0418401k.htm The Hindu on indiaserver.com : City lungs need urgent relief from automobile pollution By Akila Dinakar CHENNAI, MAY 17. With Chennai's vehicle population more than doubling in 10 years, environmentalists want the new government to address urgently the mounting problem of automobile pollution that is choking the city's atmosphere. In 1991, Chennai had 5,50,121 transport and non-transport vehicles, a number which shot up to 11,51,626 by 2000. In effect they are spewing 1,425 tonnes of pollutants into the air. Though two-wheelers and cars together constitute a major chunk of the city traffic, accusing fingers point out to the Metropolitan Transport Corporation (MTC) buses, the Municipal Corporation and Metrowater lorries that release columns of thick black smoke. Officials of a cash-strapped MTC say the reasons for pollution include improper calibration of the fuel injection pump and atomiser. The excess fuel delivered into the combustion chamber results in incomplete combustion. An unclean exhaust pipe, poor vehicle maintenance and adulterated diesel are other reasons, they say. Although the average age of vehicles is around four years, several buses plying in North Chennai are over eight years old. Officials note that the cost of replacing the problematic engine crown and fuel injection pump could be several lakhs. ``We are forced to run the buses despite the pollution problem, as the public would otherwise be affected''. The same is the case with Metrowater tankers and Corporation lorries. In the name of public service, the vehicles which are in a totally bad shape ply on city roads. ``Air pollution takes a back seat when the priority is supplying water or transporting garbage'', a transport department official said. The Tamil Nadu Pollution Control Board (TNPCB) has told the Corporation to pull off some Onyx garbage vehicles that were spewing black smoke. Ms. Sheela Rani Chunkath, Chairperson, TNPCB, said two-wheelers were not co-operating in obtaining the Pollution Under Control certificate. On a long term, her solution to address this problem is going in for increased non-motorised mass transport by tubes or trams. ``We are depending too much on motorised transport which is responsible for high levels of air pollution''. The TNPCB officials contend that the powerful car lobby is pushing for more vehicles with marginal adjustments like Euro II or III which, they feel, will not solve the problem. Their other suggestions include looking at LPG as alternative fuel for two-wheelers and auto-rickshaws - two major polluters; providing pre-mixed fuel, manufacture four-stroke instead of two- stroke two-wheelers and a ban on private diesel cars. Particulate Matter resulting from diesel emissions is highly carcinogenic. Increasing mass transport and providing safe cycling tracks and pavement space for non-polluting modes of transport and declaring car-free zones are some immediate solutions to the problem, officials say. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Conquest of the Land
Hi Kirk Brilliant! So glad to see I'm not the only person in the world to have read Price/Pottenger. I know the feeling well! The most important book in the world - and one of the most obscure. I wonder why? (Not.) I agree with your comments re dynamics of biological farming versus better living through chemistry rubbish promoted by idustry/gvt with the exception of trace elements. If they aren't in the subsoil then deep rooted crops/weeds cannot lift what is not there. This is true in sedimentary soils. When you remove crops from these soils the trace elements leave also. It took ages to get what precious few were there before agriculture and we effectively remove over 90% in many instances in 40 years. Rock dust (granite), sea weed or other supplementation can in many cases result in crop yield improvements of 30% in the first year yet most gvt farm agents will provide zero information. On shaky ground suddenly, but I think some traditional systems have existed on such soils for a very long time. Of course where there's annual replenishment through flooding (and pity the mountainsides upstream), like the Tigris-Euphrates, Nile, etc., but I think not only. Anyway, again, that's the chemistry part of soil, the biology of the soil can make all the difference. Where you have low levels of minerals and a high soil biodiversity (through good soil management and sufficient organic matter), the plants have higher mineral content. This happens through having a large population of plant nutrient cyclers and plant symbionts present in the soil, making the scarce minerals more available or feeding them directly to the plants (eg via mycorrhizal fungi). The soil biology can also buffer the mineral imbalances. Plants can take up non-nutritive ions and substitute these for plant nutrient minerals to survive. Also, the minerals are often there but locked up by soil imbalances caused by poor practices. Too much of this means no that, even if it's there in abundance, it's out of reach. Such imbalances are also complex, it's usually not much use replacing only what seems to be missing. Good humus management is most important - feed the soil bugs, they'll figure it out for you. As you say, rock dusts and liquid seaweed can make all the difference, and no, they won't tell you that! Seaweed is highly effective, virtually all the minerals in more or less ideal forms and ratios, alongn with growth-promoters and so on, and a little goes a long way. A very acceptable off-farm input. That's the good (?) thing about trace minerals, micro-nutrients, tiny amounts can make all the difference. Best thing to do with seaweed is spray it on the compost pile. Also the best place for rock dusts, IMHO. Keith, how on earth did you acquire such a broad education? It's refreshing to find someone who values knowledge above ball games. Education? Me? It's nice of you to say so, but I don't have an education. I walked out of school as soon as I was big enough to make it stick. True. Well, also I'm a journalist, and did more or less the same thing with newspapers - out, went freelance, got into investigative work and followed my nose. Also not a national - same thing, left, lived all over the place since then, no home any more, I don't think I even have a culture anymore. I guess I got quite thoroughly un-educated. :-) But yes, I do value knowledge above ball games, as do you, I can see, and yes, that's refreshing. All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Kirk Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] DaimlerChrysler, U.S. Army To Adapt Hybrid Electric Truck
http://ens.lycos.com/ens/may2001/2001L-05-21-09.html DaimlerChrysler, U.S. Army To Adapt Hybrid Electric Truck AUBURN HILLS, Michigan, May 21, 2001 (ENS) - DaimlerChrysler Corporation and the U.S. Army Tank Automotive Armaments Command - National Automotive Center (NAC) will develop a military version of the automaker's Dodge Ram HEV hybrid electric pickup truck. Under the agreement, DaimlerChrysler will design, build and test the military version of the Ram HEV. The vehicle will be designed to meet requirements of the Army's Commercially Based Tactical Truck (COMBATT) program. This is a wonderful partnering opportunity for the Army to share in technology development with DaimlerChrysler. This effort is a part of the Army's 21st Century Truck Initiative that has goals of building more fuel efficient, smarter and safer trucks for our future force, said NAC director Dennis Wend. The vehicle developed for the Army will be based on the 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 pickup equipped with a diesel electric hybrid powertrain. The vehicle can be operated in either diesel electric hybrid or electric only mode. The hybrid powertrain results in fuel efficiency improvements of up to 20 percent as well as reduced tailpipe emissions. When parked, the vehicle's hybrid propulsion components can be converted into a stationary electrical generator capable of delivering up to 30 kilowatts (kW) peak power or 20 kW of continuous power. The Dodge Ram HEV's clean hybrid technology is an ideal way to meet the off site electrical generating capacity needs of construction contractors, farmers, campers and even homeowners, said Bernard Robertson, senior vice president for engineering technologies and regulatory affairs, and general manager for truck operations at DaimlerChrysler. Now we have the opportunity to adapt this environmentally friendly technology to our national defense needs. DaimlerChrysler has already announced plans to sell a commercial version of the Dodge Ram HEV beginning in 2004. The vehicle will be available in 1500 and 2500 models equipped with different diesel and gasoline engines. The special capabilities of the Dodge Ram HEV should increase consumers' interest in the hybrid version of our Ram pickup and thus help us build the market for this clean, fuel efficient technology, said Robertson. This new military application will take us another step further in capitalizing on the capabilities of hybrid technology.'' Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Diesel engines could help U.S. beat fuel crunch if feds wake up
http://detnews.com:80/2001/autos/0105/22/b01-226787.htm - 5/22/01 World Auto View Diesel engines could help U.S. beat fuel crunch if feds wake up By Daniel Howes / The Detroit News FRANKFURT, Germany--There's a word in German that says an awful lot about how many Europeans regard America's growing energy-crisis angst. The word is schadenfreude, which means broadly means feeling joy at someone else's pain or misfortune. Many here are looking on with gleeful bemusement and outrage as Americans, branded the world-champion consumers of natural resources, are staring at a fossil-fuel comeuppance. Take the man who stopped my wife in the park Monday and asked where she was from. Upon hearing her answer, he launched into a tirade about selfish Americans, irresponsible energy policy and a slavish devotion to, of all things, air conditioning. Such stereotypical ranting aside, Europeans are right to think something is wrong when they see the global evangelists for free choice in the free market effectively denying American citizens the option to drive diesel-powered cars, perhaps the single best way to reduce fuel consumption over the next decade. Diesel engines, the hottest auto trend in Europe, are being regulated out of existence in the United States. Only one automaker, Volkswagen AG , offers diesel engines as an option in the U.S. market. The rest don't bother because they figure restrictive regulations and the expense associated with persuading Americans don't justify the investment. That's too bad. Diesels like the one my Canadian friend Tim Gray is driving, a 2001 VW Jetta powered by a 1.9-liter TDI diesel, can cut fuel consumption by 30 percent, reduce carbon-dioxide emissions and save money without sacrificing the performance Americans expect of their engines. But given the current regime, you won't be able to buy them at all come 2004. I'm surprised how quiet it is, how smooth it is and how much pep it has, says Gray, a tax consultant who drives about 6,000 miles per month to cover his region of eastern Ontario. His cost for a fill-up has dropped 33 percent while the distance he can travel on a tank of fuel has nearly doubled. The argument that Americans won't try diesels because they remember the disastrous diesels of the late 1970s and early '80s is silly. Times and technologies change. It's like saying Americans won't buy Volvos or Chevys because they recall the problems in, say, 1981. VW's TDI diesels pack a wallop of torque, scream down the highway and can run forever on a tank of fuel. They meet California's strict requirements for carbon dioxide and hydrocarbon emissions, but fail to meet the guidelines for nitrous oxide -- a precursor of smog -- and particulate, or soot, emissions. That could change. With low-sulfur diesel fuel like that already burning in European diesels, VW thinks it could meet California's air-quality rules, which are to be adopted by the federal Environmental Protection Agency in 2004. The sooner oil companies deliver low-sulfur fuels to the U.S. market, the better. What should end, but won't, is the snide condescension from environmentalists and their allies in the talking classes. They exude German-style schadenfreude at a potential U.S. energy reckoning, then belittle Americans for the cars they drive, the food they eat and the houses they live in. Saying no -- to diesel engines, nuclear power, energy exploration and more sport-utility vehicles -- isn't an answer. It's a cop out. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] GM pushes diesel revival
http://detnews.com:80/2001/autos/0105/22/a01-226651.htm - 05/21/01 GM pushes diesel revival Automakers say new engines are cleaner, more fuel efficient Diesel debate Here are arguments for and against diesels: Pro * Higher fuel economy * More power and performance * Lower carbon dioxide emissions Con * Causes smog * Releases soot that causes respiratory ailments * Exhaust is a possible carcinogen Source: U.S. Environmental Protection Agency By Jeff Plungis / Detroit News Washington Bureau WASHINGTON -- With gasoline prices rising and the fuel-economy debate heating up, General Motors Corp. is renewing a push to relax clean-air standards to allow the sale of more diesel-powered passenger cars and trucks. GM and other automakers are embracing diesel as pressure grows on them to improve the fuel economy of their vehicle fleets. Diesel burns 30 percent more efficiently than gasoline, but gives off more soot and smog-producing emissions. While diesel-powered vehicles have never been very popular in the United States, their use is exploding in Europe and Japan where high fuel prices make fuel-economy a higher priority than stringent clean-air rules. Most of the world is diesel friendly, said GM Vice-Chairman Harry Pearce. The current EPA regulations make it very difficult to use diesel technology. Attempts to expand the use of diesel in the American market is likely to be met with skepticism from consumers and stiff resistance among environmental groups and health advocates. Diesel technology has advanced in recent years. Diesels sold in the 1980s were noisy, sluggish and dirty. Today's diesels are much improved, with lower emissions and perky but quiet performance. Nationwide, a gallon of diesel fuel now costs $1.49, while a gallon of regular unleaded gasoline sells for $1.71. The automakers have a huge financial stake in diesels. GM and Ford Motor Co. have spent billions of dollars in recent years developing cleaner diesels for foreign markets. They also are developing with partners diesel engines for commercial trucks. The biggest obstacle to the introduction of powerful, fuel-efficient diesels are new tailpipe emissions rules that take effect in 2004. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency rules reduce the amount of harmful emissions vehicles can emit while requiring them to burn cleaner fuels with less sulfur. But the automakers argue that the rules are too strict in respect to diesel, which could go far to help them increase the fuel-economy of their new vehicle fleets. The biggest gains could be for sport-utility vehicles and pickup trucks. There has to be some flexibility with respect to the current regulations and the future proposed regulations, Pearce said. He said that diesels used in certain applications could be excused from meeting more stringent requirements with respect to nitrous oxides, or NOx, and particulates, or soot. NOx can produce smog and soot and has been linked to lung diseases. GM chief environmental officer Dennis J. Minano, meeting with reporters in Washington last week, said the EPA rules restrict the number of diesel vehicles GM is allowed to build, limits fuel economy gains and inhibits the reduction of carbon dioxide -- a greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming. Under EPA regulations, an automaker's fleet of cars and trucks can only emit a certain amount of NOx. A manufacturer is free to sell more-polluting vehicles if those sales are offset by more cleaner-burning vehicles. Limited ability to sell Automakers believe the restrictions will limit their ability to sell diesel-powered sport-utility vehicles and pickups, a high-profit segment of the market that would benefit the most from higher-mileage, more powerful diesel engines. If we want to continue to move to increase fuel efficiency, if we want to continue to address carbon dioxide emissions, we in the United States should not limit the technology option that can produce those results cleanly, Minano said. Volkswagen AG is the only manufacturer that sells passenger vehicles equipped with diesel engines in the United States. The diesel-powered Beetle, Golf and Jetta now account for 10 percent of each models' annual U.S. sales. The vehicles get 49 mile per gallon on the highway and 42 mpg in the city, compared with 31 mpg and 24 mpg for their gasoline counterparts. Attempts to revise EPA rules would rekindle years of debate about the health benefits and costs of emissions regulations. Because diesel engines emit more NOx and soot environmental and health groups fear relaxed rules would mean more cases of asthma and lung disease. There are also concerns that diesel exhaust may cause cancer. The Union of Concerned Scientists estimates that a diesel car would emit between 16 and 20 times more particulate matter than an equivalent gasoline-powered car. If diesel is
Re: [biofuel] Alcohol as an antifreeze?
Greetings to everyone: It seems to me that before the advent of modern antifreeze, people used alcohol in the cars to keep them from freezing in the winter, (I swear I read that somewhere but can't remember where). Has anyone else ever heard of this? Is it possible? Can a person make their own antifreeze in the same way as making fuel for their automobile? Thanks for the input and guidance, Fischmann I'm sure you're right, rings bells - it does have a low freezing point. You might have to use quite a lot though to get the overall freezing point down low enough. Also glycerine's been suggested as an anti-freeze. But I guess it has to be purified first. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Algae - was RE: [biofuel] GE oilseeds
Hi Andrew Thanks a lot for the info. That's been much my impression too (along with cellulose to ethanol), but it's great to have some detail from someone who's checked. All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Mike, Forget the algae. At the moment it is not worth it. You require huge amounts of land, huge amounts of infrastructure and then the ability to actually grow the little beggers. Oh I forgot to mention, which one do you use? There are many thousands of stains of algae but only a few have been looked at. Like a lot of other people on this list I was fired up about algae, spent some time in the Uni library, had my biochemist wife decipher some things for me and came away with the conclusion that it will require quite a bit of PhD level research and then big $$$ for the setup before it can go ahead. Whilst algae do multiply rapidly thay are a lot harder to grow than corn/canoloa/wheat etc. Regards, Andrew Lowe To:biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: Mike Brownstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Sun, 20 May 2001 09:03:41 +0200 Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil Here, here Bob, I've been thinking about this for a while now ( I like the idea of algae farms ). Can you, perhaps refer me to more information. You know, which are the best to use, conditions of growing etc.. Mike Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol compression/mileage
Grendel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Same way as unleaded gas. Use an additive or. . . Running ethanol in a stocker is a huge waste. The compression should be raised to get decent mileage. I saw photos of an ethanol fueled engine from a taxi with 300k on it. Looked like a gasoline engine with 50k on it. Kirk Kirk, Oddly enough this is the first time I've heard of raising the compression for better mileage. I am going to convert an old motorcycle of mine to E-85. I was told that I should raise the compression but didn't knwo why. Can you explain it to me? Thanks! See Chapters 1-3 of The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel by S.W. Mathewson, in the Biofuels library at Journey to Forever (see below): http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html Uh, by the way, that message was 27kb long. Try snipping? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Chapter 1 AN OVERVIEW Alcohol Fuel Uses of Alcohol Fuel Other Alternative Fuels Chapter 2 BASIC FUEL THEORY Chemical Composition Combustion Properties Volatility Octane Ratings Water Injection Exhaust Composition Engine Performance - Straight Alcohol Engine Performance - Alcohol Blends Chapter 3 UTILIZATION OF ALCOHOL FUELS Methods of Utilization Alcohol Blends Pure Alcohol Diesel Engines Engine Modification Alcohol Injection Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] GM to announce fuel-efficient V8 truck engines
... will announce yesterday??? http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=10913 Planet Ark GM to announce fuel-efficient V8 truck engines USA: May 22, 2001 DETROIT - General Motors Corp. will announce yesterday that it will add more fuel-efficient V8 engines in its light trucks starting in 2004, increasing mileage by as much as 25 percent, officials said. The new engines, part of GM's efforts to maintain its edge in truck fuel-efficiency over rival Ford Motor Co. , resurrect displacement-on-demand technology, which automatically shuts off half of the V8's cylinders, temporarily turning it into a more efficient four-cylinder, when the trucks are cruising at a constant speed or carrying a light load. During acceleration or when pulling a heavy load, all eight cylinders do the work. GM plans to manufacture more than 150,000 of the V8 engines in 2004, and increase production to nearly 1.5 million units annually by 2007. GM's light truck fleet, weighted by sales, averaged about 21 miles per gallon last year. The new engines would be put in its larger vehicles, which are less fuel efficient, such as the Chevrolet Suburbun full-size SUV, which gets between 14 and 18 miles per gallon. Sam Winegarden, GM's chief engineer of Vortec V8 engines, said the split-second transition from V8 to a four-cylinder is unnoticeable and vastly superior to when GM's Cadillac division briefly tried a displacement-on-demand engine in 1981. That engine, which shifted between a V8, a six-cylinder and a four-cylinder, depending on the driving conditions, lasted only about one model year because it shook uncontrollably and the technology was much more costly. The capability of the computer in the early 1980s wasn't sophisticated enough, Winegarden said in an interview with Reuters. Back when Cadillac tried it before, the transition wasn't always seamless. The fuel economy gains were pretty substantial however. GM officials have been annoyed by Ford's efforts to portray itself as an environmental leader, and have taken more steps to point out their own contributions to raising fuel efficiency and cutting vehicle emissions and pollution. We clearly have got the lead there, and we intend to keep that, Winegarden said. Meanwhile, pressure is mounting on the U.S. government from environmental groups to raise the required fuel efficiency to the same level as cars. President Bush's energy plan, announced last week, said the government will reexamine federal fuel economy standards, with an eye toward raising them without negatively impacting the U.S. automotive industry. Winegarden said the new technology costs a minimal amount, and the engines will be standard on many pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles. The V8 engines will boost fuel economy by up to 25 percent in certain driving conditions. However, the listed fuel economy will rise by about 8 percent, based on the testing procedures required by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, which simulates rush hour traffic. Jim Hall, vice president of industry analysis with consulting firm AutoPacific, said GM could eventually put the new V8 engines in its upcoming Cadillac roadster, to arrive on the market in early 2003, or its Chevrolet Corvette. GM is spending money on engines, something they haven't done for a long time, he said. They realize customers will pay for it. GM said it is also considering applying displacement-on-demand technology on some of its six-and four-cylinder engines. Currently, DaimlerChrysler AG's Mercedes is the only major automaker to offer displacement-on-demand engines, making it available on V12 engines for its high-end S600 and CL600 sedan and coupe, which each cost more than $110,000. The engines automatically deactivate half the cylinders, effectively making it into a six-cylinder, when full power is not required. Mercedes also sells a luxury sedan in Germany that has the technology on a V8. Ford, which said last July that it is aiming to boost the fuel efficiency of its SUVs by 25 percent by 2005, is also considering similar technology for its truck engines, said spokesman Said Deep. The technology could be applied on V8 or the larger V10 engines, he added. Winegarden said GM is also working on other technology, including variable-valve timing, variable compression, as well as adding continuously-variable transmissions and five-speed transmissions to its lineup to raise fuel economy. Story by Michael Ellis REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Oh man, that car is really smoking!
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=10912 Planet Ark Oh man, that car is really smoking! AUSTRALIA: May 22, 2001 SYDNEY - Hey dude, check out my hemp mobile! Australian researchers believe that within a decade, cars could be made of hemp - the cannabis plant - as backyards and dumps overflow with rusty metal hulks and vehicle makers turn to biodegradable materials for car bodies. Alan Crosky, of the University of New South Wales' Material Science and Engineering School, said yesterday that hemp had turned out to be the most viable material, beating coconuts and banana trees in preliminary studies. Disposal of old cars is a growing problem. It is only a matter of time before the expense of disposal becomes the owner's responsibility and the consumer is forced to pay the full life-cycle costs of their car, Crosky said. Because this will increase the cost of cars, developing an environmentally friendly material that can be used to make the bodies of cars is now a viable option, he said. Crosky told Reuters he had begun researching hemp to find ways of making sure it does not become brittle and could protect the passengers of a vehicle during an accident. He said hemp - made from the cannabis plant but containing only minute amounts of the narcotic tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) - was like fibreglass, but a natural product. It's renewable, you don't have to put as much energy into making it, and best of all, burning it doesn't get off anymore carbon dioxide than it absorbed during growing, what we call CO2 neutral, Crosky said. Hemp is widely used in making textiles and rope. Research was at the preliminary stage but Crosky believed it would not be too long before hemp cars became a reality. It might take a decade, he told Reuters. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE And on the other hand... http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=10915 Planet Ark Magnesium use in cars could double in five years BELGIUM: May 22, 2001 BRUSSELS - Magnesium use in the manufacture of automobiles could double in the next five years as demand for lightweight, fuel-saving materials grows, a major industry conference heard yesterday. Friedrich Schumann, Director of Vehicle Research for Germany's Volkswagen Group, told the International Magnesium Association's (IMA) annual conference that during the 1990s magnesium had made ground against other aluminium, plastics and steel-based alloys. But if this growth was to continue more cooperation was needed between the magnesium industry and car makers, he said. Only by adopting an integrated approach to construction methods, materials and processes can lightweight construction be achieved at competitive prices, he said. While recognising that there is still some way to go before that integrated approach is achieved, we still view it as the key to greater use of magnesium in motor vehicles, he said. Schumann said the main areas of magnesium use were in the drive train and vehicle interior but new applications would arise in the next five years. In the short term, the number of those applications will increase further, conceivably to double the present figure, and the first uses of magnesium in body components can be expected, he said, referring to a target of between 60 and 80 kg of metal per automobile. However, more research was needed into new alloys. A longer-term target of over 100 kg of magnesium per vehicle would not only depend on technological developments but also cooperation between the industry and users as well as successful cost reductions in the whole production chain. These cost reductions had to address primary metal production, component manufacturing, in-house recycling and a secondary material market, Schumann said. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Alcohol as an antifreeze?
Methyl(wood) alcohol and looking into a hot radiator with the cap off was a no no. The vapors would get your eyes I was told. Kirk -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:39 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol as an antifreeze? Greetings to everyone: It seems to me that before the advent of modern antifreeze, people used alcohol in the cars to keep them from freezing in the winter, (I swear I read that somewhere but can't remember where). Has anyone else ever heard of this? Is it possible? Can a person make their own antifreeze in the same way as making fuel for their automobile? Thanks for the input and guidance, Fischmann I'm sure you're right, rings bells - it does have a low freezing point. You might have to use quite a lot though to get the overall freezing point down low enough. Also glycerine's been suggested as an anti-freeze. But I guess it has to be purified first. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water / snipping
David said: The orientation (today) is south in fuel lines and north in the air intake. But some time ago, on initial tests, I've reversed poles. My question is: If dyno (and also bio) diesel are'nt magnetic particles or magnetic propierties, how affects a magnet the fuel? Is able with a magnet to dissociate or catalyze some in fuel? Skeptic... David, you may find the web site posted by Sam to be interesting. How it works is still a mystery to me, though I can think of some things which may somehow be related. At the sub-atomic level matter/energy has a magnetic component to it. At the molecular level many molecules have a magnetic moment associated with their polarity. Hence, such molecules will tend to align with the lines of a magnetic field. Even non-polar fluids like organic solvents may still have some small degree of molecular polarity. How it works is not yet defined so far as I know, but in the case of the polar fluid water it also seems that water has the ability to retain a magnetic/energetic 'memory' for a significant period of time. However, perhaps like the competent driver who has no concept of how an engine works, we may still be able to use magnets even if we don't know how they do their 'magic'. We simply need to experiment and learn what does and does not work, like you seem to be doing. Cheers, -- ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 453
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:51:17 - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money Added to the water supply to dairy cattle, that and O2 added to the water increases milk production 5-10%. How much did the milk production go up by just adding o2 to the water? If you dont do them separately then you can't draw conclusions. otherwise you could just add 02 to the water..and say that Milking in May increases milk production.assuming that the 02 actually does increase it or.. assuming you had a female trainee do the milking..come to the conclusion that the cow is a lesbian becasue she puts out more milk when women pull on their teets.. etc etc etc I will acnowledge that I am predisposed to think the magnets are bunk... especially when i hear programs on the radio saying that 48 people noticed superior sleep with our mattress magnets.. while only 2 who had placebo matresses noticed a minor increase is sleep. what is make it sound like is that the Mattress works.. but since you are not comparing the people who noticed superior sleep and had magnetic matress with number of people who reported superior sleep with placebo matresses... the statement is bunk. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What about making engine oil?
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:32:14 +0100 From: Biofuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: What about making engine oil? CASTROL R http://www.castrol.com/products/cars_castrolr.html makes you wonder whether this company got its name from Castoroil...- Castroil... Castrol Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: DD question
Thats true!!! run it the length of your plant! Alot of heat also Try to run at lowest rpm, maybe good setup for 50 mhz plenty of HP but very hard on the ears --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have access to a generator powered with a DD 2-71. Does anyone have any experience with this engine? I have been told it is possible to build a muffler that will work on a DD so the neighbors are not so willing to storm your door with sythes and torches. From my experience a DD is the best way to turn Diesel fuel into noise. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: magnets in fuel line.
theory as to why magnets work: long hydrocarbon chains are being broken down to shorter chains umm.. correct me if I am wrong, but isnt the fuel's high octane specifically *because* the chains are longer? hence they will not burn so quickly? now if the magnet is breaking this down.. wouldn't that be poopifying your grade of gas that you put in your tank? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
This climate change propaganda is a con job. Stop the crap. - Original Message - From: Ray Foulk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Millennium Debate [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 4:04 PM Subject: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Dear All, A date for your diaries: 8.00pm, Wednesday 13th June 2001 MAKI MANDELA AT THE OXFORD UNION proposing the motion: THIS HOUSE CONDEMNS AMERICA'S NEGLECT OF CLIMATE CHANGE (as justice and efficacy demand that rich countries cut emissions before the Developing World joins in) Dr Mandela (Executive Director, Development Bank of South Africa and daughter of Nelson Mandela) is proposing the motion and will be supported by: Zac Goldsmith (editor, The Ecologist) She will be opposed by: Professor Philip Stott (Professor of Biogeography, University of London) and David Victor (Council on Relations, New York, USA). Attached is a press release and poster (you may be able to print the attached poster) for the Climate Change Debate the Millennium Debate is co-organising with Refocus Renewable Energy Magazine (Elsevier Publishers) at the Oxford Union on Wednesday June 13th at 8.00pm. We have arranged for this important event to be open to the public, so please spread the word via email to potentially interested parties. Posters are available to be put up, and tickets are available to sell. Tickets are £3.00 (£1.50 concessions) and you can take a batch of 5, 10, 20 tickets or more, depending on how many environmentally friendly friends and contacts you have. Tickets are available through the Millennium Debate or the designated ticket outlets in Oxford (details below). The Union holds 800 and we want to fill the place, so any ticket sales you can manage will help. Factions in the US do take note of Oxford Union debate results. Here's to a topical, heated debate - and to making this a lively, memorable event - hope to see you there! Many thanks Claire Palmer The MilIlennium Environment Debate 46 Nelson Street Oxford OX2 6BE T: +44 (0) 1865 552463 F: +44 (0) 1865 310773 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.millennium-debate.org Posters and tickets can be delivered, or are available at: The Millennium Debate, 46 Nelson Street, Jericho (used to be a pub, junction of Wellington St and Nelson St) 01865 552463 Mobile: 07775 698 549 Tickets available at : Uhuru Wholefoods, 48 Cowley Road Magic Cafe, 108 Magdalene Rd, East Oxford (off Iffley Road) Alpha Organic Cafe, 89 Oxford Covered Market (Market St entrance - 1st cafe on the right) 46 Nelson Street (junction of Wellington Street) Jericho Oxford --- Pre-press release EMBARGO TILL: 11am, 22 May 2001 Ms MANDELA TO LEAD CLIMATE CHANGE DEBATE AT THE OXFORD UNION WEDNESDAY JUNE 13th 8.00pm. -- Why should America be responsible for cleaning up the world's air? George W Bush The daughter of the former South African president, Nelson Mandela, is to take on the new Bush administration at the Oxford Union on 13 June, by proposing that: This house Condemns America's Neglect of Climate Change (as justice and efficacy demand that rich countries cut emissions before the developing world joins in). In a joint initiative, Oxford based charity, The Millennium Debate and Elsevier Publisher's REFOCUS magazine (Renewable Energy Focus) are co-organising the public debate at the Oxford Union. They have made a special arrangement for non-members to attend on this occasion. The debate centres around US President George W. Bush's recent decision to withdraw from the Kyoto accord saying that Kyoto is unfair and exempts 80% of the world, including population centres like China and India, from compliance. The US stance, coming from a country with 5% of the world's population that emits over 25% of the total world greenhouse gas emissions, has lead to a world wide uproar, with some critics even proposing an all out trade war on the United States. Dr Maki Mandela insists that the issue is one that will affect the Developing World more than American businessmen. The US Embassy in London declined to put forward a speaker, though a representative from the Embassy will be in attendance. Major oil companies, Exon and Texaco have also declined to speak in the debate. Speakers for the motion: Dr Maki Mandela, Executive Director of the Development Bank of Southern Africa (and daughter of Nelson Mandela); Zac Goldsmith, Editor, The Ecologist Speakers against the motion: Philip Stott, Professor of Biogeography, University of London; and David G. Victor, Council on Foreign Relations, United States xxx TEL: 01865 552463, 01865 843648 or MOBILE: 07775 698 549 for more information [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list
[biofuel] Subject: Coconut oil
Gerry wrote: Mature coconuts would be required as they have thicker kernel with have more oil after they have been sun dried. Are you quite sure that mature nuts have more oil? The meat is harder in those I've seen, and it may be a little thicker, but the only difference in the rest of the nut is that the water (liquid endosperm) has been absorbed into the meat. The water contains no oil, so I wonder whether the meat of a mature coconut contains more. Anyway, I can't find anything definite either way in the little literature that I have. I think the best way to find out is to have somone suck the juice out of your nuts. i'm sorry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
makes you wonder whether this company got its name from Castoroil...- Castroil... Castrol That is exactly where it got its name. WWI era planes used Castor Oil. Many early engines had total loss lubrication systems and most leaked. One reference I read tells that because Castor Oilâs laxative affect, a pilotâs first stop on landing was the john. They mentioned another reason for the fabled hard drinking of WWI pilots was that alcohol did not go through you like solid food. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water / snipping
David et al, Maybe for them to work the car has to be travelling in a S to N line or vice versa. I am sorry but the more I hear of this the more I am sceptical. That doesnt make me right just sceptical. It is perhaps good that we have people who are prepared to try this and find out. I personally prefer to accept things that are backed up and supported by known scientific support and research (ie scientific knowledge). This is why I know by-pass filters work but would place this in the realm of hope. Still dont let me stop anyone who wants to try. Perhaps with more positive results you will get me interested and even I may perhaps try them. B,r., David - Original Message - From: David Sanz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water / snipping Hello Warren, The orientation (today) is south in fuel lines and north in the air intake. But some time ago, on initial tests, I've reversed poles. My question is: If dyno (and also bio) diesel are'nt magnetic particles or magnetic propierties, how affects a magnet the fuel? Is able with a magnet to dissociate or catalyze some in fuel? Skeptic... Regards David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?
Warren, Sam, et al, I am still very sceptical, have done very little reading on the subject, and remain a doubting Thomas but it dosnt mean you shouldnt try as despite all claims to the contrary magnetic force fields are not well understood. I am well aware that people who live under or in close proximity to high tension power transmission lines reportedly suffer from a higher incidence of cancer. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Warren Rekow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic? Sam said: I need not, nor have any desire to convince anyone on earth other than myself as to the validity of said circumstances or scientific properties thereof. clip Amen. Sam, you say it so well. 8^) Corrosive diatribes and intolerant cynicism only serve to subvert understanding and hinder our general advancement. You can look at this site: http://www.fut.es/~sje/mag_fuel.htm as they have some info on the subject of magnets in regards to fuel, but do not take anyones word for it. This is the internet after all. Interesting web site. The method of giving opposite magnetic polarities to the incoming air and fuel certainly sounds worth experimenting with. I'll give it a go and see if I can duplicate the results given on that site and by yourself. Thanks. -- ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES
Quote from a MAFF report: 12 1.0.iii Oil Crops - Markets The total world production of vegetable oils is over 85 million tonnes, with more than 80% originating from soya bean, oil palm, rapeseed, sunflower and coconut. Whilst the majority of this oil is used in the food industry 25% is used in non-food or technical applications, by the oleochemical industry. Oil Crop market areas Lubricants It is reported that around 740,000 tonnes of lubricants are used in the UK each year, whilst the EU market for lubricants is reputed to be some 4.5 million tonnes (59). Of these, over 580,000 tonnes (13%) are unaccounted for after use and presumably lost to the environment. The loss of hydraulic oils is believed to be around 8% whilst for engine oils the figure proposed is 34%. Further to this the European Environmental Agency has estimated that around 260,000 tonnes of oil are lost in the North Sea each year (59). It therefore seems logical that vegetable oil-based lubricants are perceived to have the greatest competitive advantage in total loss systems e.g. chain bar oils, two stroke marine engines, drilling muds, agricultural greases and possibly in applications where the risk of loss is high. e.g. certain hydraulic systems. In such cases their negative impact on the environment is much less than that of mineral oil-based lubricants. Although they are more expensive than mineral oil-based lubricants, less is needed per tonne of wood cut, so the cost is no greater. However, their extensive use in these contexts is likely to be dependent on specific environmental legislation (as is the case in Germany and Switzerland). Nevertheless, since April 1995 the UK's Forestry Enterprise (a division of the Forestry Commission) has adopted a policy of using environmentally-friendly lubricants to lubricate chainbars and chains, in both their motor manual systems and automated harvesters. The UK's Environment Agency is also keen to promote the use of more environmentally-friendly products. At the 'Lubricants from oilseeds workshop' held in London on 9th May 1996, Dr Harold of Lubrizol International Laboratories stated that the estimated potential EU market for biodegradable lubricants was in the region of 370,000 million tonnes (10). However, to date only a fraction of the market (35,000 tonnes) is actually derived from vegetable oils (see also Table 1.4). Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Tallow
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], bob golding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that the BSE prion does not survive the rendering process. Bob the prion may survive but it contains Nitrogen which makes it easy to identify. It does not exist in tallow at all. Only if the tallow is impure containing some of the meat and bone is their a problem. Then again if your burning it in a diesel who cares about the prions they will not survive past their flash point. Jonathan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES - whistleblowing
Hi Dave, I suspect a lot of what you are saying below is probably true but dont know what the answers are. I believe vegetable oils just like mineral oils need additives to achieve extended life and minimal wear and tear. At least all the evidence and research points that way. The options seem to be using large amounts of oil with minimum additives and a short life, or a much smaller amount of oil with high additive levels and a much longer life. Either way the result seems to be the same. In the end we rely on good old Mother Nature to eventually break the results down or disperse them with more entering the food chain all the time. The rise of the motor car may well be the demise of man for all we know. Perhaps thats a good thing because the real disease on this planet seems to be man rather than foot and mouth, ebola, and all those other things. Perhaps it is just as well that oil will run out in 70 years (half that by my estimate). The sooner we get some of these other technologies on line the better. B.r., David - Original Message - From: David Preskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:28 PM Subject: [biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES - whistleblowing List, Engine oil already done. See http://www.agromgt.com/prod01.htm Problem is it needs loadsa additives. Theirs is based on rape (canola) last I heard coz its got a high (60%) oleic acid content, good in boundary lubrication, thermal stability, etc. but its a start and I think their philosophy is bang on course. Patent issued 1997- ish. Additives are very nasty and its all kept very quiet by the additive companies (Lubrizol, Henkel) although I enjoy treading on their toes. Mineral oil is useless without additives and I've heard it said if these companies stop production, the oil companies fall. Its something I've been researching for about ten years now and which is why I'm passionate about veg oils replacing mineral, whether for bio-diesel or lubricants. Most lube oils and fuels contain scary compounds - chemists out there should recognise dithiocarbamates, most of us have heard of organo-phosphates. Well theres also organo-chlorine, organo-sulphur (smell gear oil - hypoid EP90 - thats the sulphur). Heard about the fumes in aircraft cabins and pilots passing out? - see muchos debatoes in UK Parliament on tricresyl phosphate used in hydraulic oils (no action though). Check it out and don't fly again. Of course there's no relationship between these compounds and nerve gases! That would mean they've been lying to us. These companies are f*g up the world for us all. Check out the list below, get some MSDS on these compounds (and don't ever get mineral oil lubricants on your hands again). Note it is groups of compounds, no specifics. Ring Lubrizol for a laugh and ask them what they are. Dispersants (metallic): Salicylate ester salts, sulfonates, phophonates, thiophosphonates, phenates, phenol sulphide, alkyl substituted salicyclates. Dispersants (ashless): Methacrylate copolymers and acrylate monomers with polar groups (amines, amides, imines, imides, hydroxyl, ether, etc.), vinyl acetae-fumaric acid coplymers, amine salts of high molecular weight organic acids, N-sustituted long-chain alkenyl succiminides. Oxidation and bearing corrosion inhibitors: Organic phosphites, metal dithiocarbamates (ouch!!), sulfufrised olefins, zinc dithiophosphate, phenolic compounds, selenides, amines, phospho-sulphurised terpenes. Anti-wear additives: Organic phosphites, sulfufrised olefins, zinc dithiophosphate, alkaline derivitaves. Viscocity index improves: Polyisobutenes, polymethacrylates, polyacrylates, methacrylate copolymers and acrylate monomers with polar groups (amines, amides, imines, imides, hydroxyl, ether, etc.), vinyl acetae-fumaric acid coplymers. Pour point depressants (remember these before you winterise your bio-d): Alkylated wax, napthalenes, polymethacrylates (0.05% in bio-d), alkylated wax phenols. Most are in engine oil for example up to 10% treatment rate, even more in critical systems such as aircraft. This makes me mad (well mad-dog f*%$}g mad actually). Unsustainable, unrenewable crap/bulls**t and lies. Ask for an MSDS from these boys - none comes. Commercial confidentiality. Bastards! Solutions, well Ed B pointed out a good one. There is a patent, held by Fuchs Petroleum in Germany (1997 priority date 30.10.97 reference: DE19747854A1), of a car diesel engine using veg oil as a crankcase lube then burning as a fuel. Problem is its held in a separate tank and proportionally mixed with fuel from the main tank. What else is in the tank? Yup, additives. Thats all they think of these oil companies. The technique isn't new, trucks pull off engine oil as they go along and replace it with fresh, the old being used as fuel. What Fuchs do is to draw off all the time. No different to a stationary engine I
Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
It did Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
Yes it did. Castrol R is made from a Castor Oil base. In the States and possibly elsewhere they now have an oil called Synflex which is continually compared to Mobil 1, is reportedly better, though I cant comment, but dont know its composition. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:32 AM Subject: [biofuel] What about making engine oil? Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:32:14 +0100 From: Biofuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: What about making engine oil? CASTROL R http://www.castrol.com/products/cars_castrolr.html makes you wonder whether this company got its name from Castoroil...- Castroil... Castrol Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE: magnets in fuel line.
David, On this arguement would depend where the hydrocarbon chain was being broken ie at what link wether carbon, hydrogen, or oxygen. Shorter chain lengths should certainly provide better and fuller combustion I would have thought. I thought higher octane had more oxygen atoms ??? Anyone with an explantion? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:42 AM Subject: [biofuel] RE: magnets in fuel line. theory as to why magnets work: long hydrocarbon chains are being broken down to shorter chains umm.. correct me if I am wrong, but isnt the fuel's high octane specifically *because* the chains are longer? hence they will not burn so quickly? now if the magnet is breaking this down.. wouldn't that be poopifying your grade of gas that you put in your tank? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Oh man, that car is really smoking!
I remember video's of a magnesium fighter plane being pushed over the side of a carrier, because they couldn't put the fire out. As a firefighter, I'd not want to respond to this kind of car fire. snip http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=10915 Planet Ark Magnesium use in cars could double in five years BELGIUM: May 22, 2001 BRUSSELS - Magnesium use in the manufacture of automobiles could double in the next five years as demand for lightweight, fuel- saving materials grows, a major industry conference heard yesterday. Friedrich Schumann, Director of Vehicle Research for Germany's Volkswagen Group, told the International Magnesium Association's (IMA) annual conference that during the 1990s magnesium had made ground against other aluminium, plastics and steel-based alloys. But if this growth was to continue more cooperation was needed between the magnesium industry and car makers, he said. Only by adopting an integrated approach to construction methods, materials and processes can lightweight construction be achieved at competitive prices, he said. While recognising that there is still some way to go before that integrated approach is achieved, we still view it as the key to greater use of magnesium in motor vehicles, he said. Schumann said the main areas of magnesium use were in the drive train and vehicle interior but new applications would arise in the next five years. In the short term, the number of those applications will increase further, conceivably to double the present figure, and the first uses of magnesium in body components can be expected, he said, referring to a target of between 60 and 80 kg of metal per automobile. However, more research was needed into new alloys. A longer-term target of over 100 kg of magnesium per vehicle would not only depend on technological developments but also cooperation between the industry and users as well as successful cost reductions in the whole production chain. These cost reductions had to address primary metal production, component manufacturing, in-house recycling and a secondary material market, Schumann said. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?
the cancer/power line myth was put to rest. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Warren, Sam, et al, I am still very sceptical, have done very little reading on the subject, and remain a doubting Thomas but it dosnt mean you shouldnt try as despite all claims to the contrary magnetic force fields are not well understood. I am well aware that people who live under or in close proximity to high tension power transmission lines reportedly suffer from a higher incidence of cancer. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Warren Rekow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:30 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic? Sam said: I need not, nor have any desire to convince anyone on earth other than myself as to the validity of said circumstances or scientific properties thereof. clip Amen. Sam, you say it so well. 8^) Corrosive diatribes and intolerant cynicism only serve to subvert understanding and hinder our general advancement. You can look at this site: http://www.fut.es/~sje/mag_fuel.htm as they have some info on the subject of magnets in regards to fuel, but do not take anyones word for it. This is the internet after all. Interesting web site. The method of giving opposite magnetic polarities to the incoming air and fuel certainly sounds worth experimenting with. I'll give it a go and see if I can duplicate the results given on that site and by yourself. Thanks. -- ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] B100 schools switch
Thank you Kieth, I will definately update with progress. I have some pretty damn good connections here, my father is the current President of the School Board and a district employee for 35 years before he retired, so I have high hopes. -andrew --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Working on getting the Berkeley Unified School District here in California to switch to B100, will update with progress, -Andrew Best of good luck, and strength to your arm. Please update as poss. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oh man, that car is really smoking!
Thats what you call going down in flames isnt it Steve? It certainly burns with a vengeance. Friend of mine was demonstrating some magnesium welding rod to a couple of friends just the other day when one of them asked about this whereupon he tried to show them how well it burns by applying a match to the rod. I commented he would probably burn his fingers whereupon he switched to the gas torch and in about 7 or 8 seconds it burst into flame spattering all over the floor. I believe today its always mixed with aluminium or has aluminium impurities for a startoff. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:29 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oh man, that car is really smoking! I remember video's of a magnesium fighter plane being pushed over the side of a carrier, because they couldn't put the fire out. As a firefighter, I'd not want to respond to this kind of car fire. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Alcohol as an antifreeze?
Fishmann, Keith, et all Lower freezing point, yes, but also lower boiling point and heat of vaporization. Maybe better than water in the winter but probably worse as an actual engine coolant. I'm a little out of my expertease here though so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. -andrew --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings to everyone: It seems to me that before the advent of modern antifreeze, people used alcohol in the cars to keep them from freezing in the winter, (I swear I read that somewhere but can't remember where). Has anyone else ever heard of this? Is it possible? Can a person make their own antifreeze in the same way as making fuel for their automobile? Thanks for the input and guidance, Fischmann I'm sure you're right, rings bells - it does have a low freezing point. You might have to use quite a lot though to get the overall freezing point down low enough. Also glycerine's been suggested as an anti-freeze. But I guess it has to be purified first. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?
Hi Steve, Tends to support my sceptical attitude if such is the case. What about high powered Microwave Transmission Towers used by the telecommunications industry as I know there is widespread debate on that one? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic? the cancer/power line myth was put to rest. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] biofuels vs petrofuels
Why does this not make a major political issue, seeing as how, with all the farmers, especially the small farmers with otherwise uneconomical operations, all need a new product, and this appears to be it. Raise grain, etc, to convert to biofuels, even set up your own biofuels conversion unit, and provide the energy we need that could, it appears, even replace petro altogether. Ipsofacto: new products stabilizing a farm economy that continually needs to be supported, minimized national security problems not having to depend on the Arabs. Less air pollution. Emphasizing small scale and appropriate technologies, etc etc. The only losers would be the big oil companies, who, however, would somehow eventually take over with their economies of scale, etc. Am I dreaming or what? How do the Democrats viiew this as an issue, or are they also bought off by the special interests. Why hasn't this openly surfaced on the national agenda.If only as an argument against drill, drill, drill, and avoiding the ANWHR drilling -- a biodiesel economy might even compete on a time frame basis, considering the time required to build new refineries, build new pipelines, new drilling, etc. Make available some well-developed, small plant, plans, with listing of the materials required and some demonstrated results, and every farmer could get in the business. Comments anyone What is wrong with this and why hasn't it been surfaced on a national scale, unless there is some vast conspiracy going on to keep everything in the hands of the status quo? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Alcohol as an antifreeze?
I thought this was for the driver. Certainly keeps the chill out in those old cars. No seriously have heard and read that it has been used as an antifreeze. With a much lower F.P. no reason it shouldnt be used but at the same time just remember it also has a much lower B.P. depending on the alcohol (ethanol for instance has a B.P. of 78.4 C) so you would need to use one of the higher alcohols (at least isopropyl or higher). Have never really looked into glycol but isnt this closely related to alcohol through the petroleum chain? B.r., David - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:53 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Alcohol as an antifreeze? Fishmann, Keith, et all Lower freezing point, yes, but also lower boiling point and heat of vaporization. Maybe better than water in the winter but probably worse as an actual engine coolant. I'm a little out of my expertease here though so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. -andrew --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings to everyone: It seems to me that before the advent of modern antifreeze, people used alcohol in the cars to keep them from freezing in the winter, (I swear I read that somewhere but can't remember where). Has anyone else ever heard of this? Is it possible? Can a person make their own antifreeze in the same way as making fuel for their automobile? Thanks for the input and guidance, Fischmann I'm sure you're right, rings bells - it does have a low freezing point. You might have to use quite a lot though to get the overall freezing point down low enough. Also glycerine's been suggested as an anti-freeze. But I guess it has to be purified first. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biofuels vs petrofuels
What about the starving millions in the world who still do not get fed properly. Maybe with everyone switching over to fuel production this number will increase with some of those millions being in the countries of production. Oh well never mind rather than bread they can eat cake. In this case oil seed cake but whats the difference anyway? Hell they might even get a few additives as well. 370,000 million tons should only take up a few acres shouldnt it and maybe I dont need to worry. B.r., David - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:14 AM Subject: [biofuel] biofuels vs petrofuels Why does this not make a major political issue, seeing as how, with all the farmers, especially the small farmers with otherwise uneconomical operations, all need a new product, and this appears to be it. Raise grain, etc, to convert to biofuels, even set up your own biofuels conversion unit, and provide the energy we need that could, it appears, even replace petro altogether. Ipsofacto: new products stabilizing a farm economy that continually needs to be supported, minimized national security problems not having to depend on the Arabs. Less air pollution. Emphasizing small scale and appropriate technologies, etc etc. The only losers would be the big oil companies, who, however, would somehow eventually take over with their economies of scale, etc. Am I dreaming or what? How do the Democrats viiew this as an issue, or are they also bought off by the special interests. Why hasn't this openly surfaced on the national agenda.If only as an argument against drill, drill, drill, and avoiding the ANWHR drilling -- a biodiesel economy might even compete on a time frame basis, considering the time required to build new refineries, build new pipelines, new drilling, etc. Make available some well-developed, small plant, plans, with listing of the materials required and some demonstrated results, and every farmer could get in the business. Comments anyone What is wrong with this and why hasn't it been surfaced on a national scale, unless there is some vast conspiracy going on to keep everything in the hands of the status quo? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Chuck, You are not an American by any chance are you? As a member of a country with less than 5% of the worlds population (280 million divided into 6 billion = 4.67% by my reckoning) using 60% of the worlds energy maybe you should be listened to and your viewpoint as the biggest energy user have dominance. Maybe you are right and its a con job but without people argueing and discussing it no resolution or solutions is/are ever going to evolve and resolve the problem if it exists. Personally I think its man using all these vehicles and man cutting down all the trees in the world. Or maybe its all these farting sheep down here in NZ. After all there is a big hole down here in the ozone layer near Antartica and if NZ is the closest to it there has to be a reason for it so maybe this sheep idea is not so stupid. Anyway as one of the people who live here and who is obviously one of the main contributors who am I to throw stones? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Chuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union This climate change propaganda is a con job. Stop the crap. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel
Thank you for the information. For sure, the price it«s bigger than a liter of petrolium http://laisla.com/petras/productos/tablaprod_a.htm But one could research produce grapes with a big grain ( to produce oil ) or with almost only grain. I see more vegetables ( trees ) with grain-pit ( that could ebe bought like residues for no human use ) where one can investigate get oil ( apricot, lemon and so on ). I have joined to the Vegoil to investigate about produce oil from different vegetables. Oil is so valuable like petrol. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel All the best. Pedro. Elabore caseramente biodiesel para su actual motor de gasoil petrolfero La solucin a sus problemas energticos. http://sitio.de/energia http://journeytoforever.org/energiaweb/ - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel All that I recall is that I purchased the oil in a health food store in Spain. It was delicious. I believe it was produced in Catalonia, but I don't recall the manufacturer. It was a long time ago. You might try a local health food store. Ask for Aceite hecho de granos de uva. Derek W. Hargis - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel Can you send me the information ???. I can publish it in the vegetable oil page ;) On the other hand, it«s interesting investigate ( by private research companies, universities and public organizatios ) the possibility of a process to convert alcohol or similar grape products into oil. All the best. - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel There is a very fine edible oil made from grape pits in Spain. A very nice delicate oil, fabulous for salads, unfortunately, quite expensive. I am not aware of any economical process to turn ethanol into a usable oil. Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel But in any way, can one get oil from alcohol or from vineyard ???. This is interesting, because in Spain there is a lot of vineyard production ( grapes ) that could be used to produce some class of oil . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Perhaps one of the greatest problems is stereotyping. I hav liked a most of the Americans and other human beings I have met. It seems to me that the current wave of American-bashing is probably closer to Bush Aministration bashing than anything else. I assume most of the guys on this group are genuinely interested in sustainable energy while maintaining their lifestyle. Great aims, but it seems that in America, like everywhere else, politics beauracracy can either help or hinder their citizens' perfectly legal wishes. By the way, I am a confirmed capitalist but that doesn't mean that I support everything that purports to be so. Thinking must be allowed! Just my two cents. Ricky Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Please Stop with the Fop was Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water / snipping
Nothing will happen. At the risk of being accused of being a kill joy, let's try to keep it real. urban legends have no place in a forum where solutions are being developed. The laundry disk, magnetics, water powered engine, joe cell, meyer, tin foil hats, etc. group has been well debunked by legitimate science. You can claim benefits all day long, and when it's put through rigorous testing (and these things have been) if the results aren't what the true believers want, they claim we didn't do it right. .. Can we please stop all this. None of us have researched the magnets. None of us have researched the laundry discs, and by god and all that's holy the tin foil on my rabbit ears antenna is about all that keeps me sane after working 16 hours straight, 7 days a week. (Improved Public Television reception, not some funky mickey mouse cap!) I'm not too inclined to believe in ceramic discs, not after spending hours scrubbing hard stains out of my only good pair of trousers. But ceramic is a miracle performer in thousands of other areas. And maybe magnets on fuel lines aren't all that conducive to improved efficiency. But tell me which among us has produced a definitive and irrefutable paper establishing this one way or the other? Maybe an open mind would reconsider what a service magnet provides in an electric motor, wind gen or particle accelerator before condemning any and all other possibilities. Sorry, but I too gave up long ago on lawyers, engineers and politicians who assume deity roles, at least as long as they bleed red blood as do the rest of us. Again, I would ask that all parties cease and desist. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?
We use to know this air force guy who was servicing the u-wave tower. Some asshole turn on the power, and he does not need to use condoms anymore. Gerry steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 05/23/2001 09:37:09 AM Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group) Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic? if you sit in front of one, your molecules will vibrate nicely. like a frog in a pot of boiling water. I have no data on the health affects from microwave towers. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic? Hi Steve, Tends to support my sceptical attitude if such is the case. What about high powered Microwave Transmission Towers used by the telecommunications industry as I know there is widespread debate on that one? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic? the cancer/power line myth was put to rest. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [Fwd: Production Mini-plants in mobile containers (Assembly Plant)]
Dear Listmates, This appeared out of the blue. Anybody know anything about this outfit? Should we turn them on to biofuels? Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Lanao del Norte Philippines SCiNet Technological Support wrote: Dear Sir, Your inquiry was forwarded to these offices where we manage and coordinate international development and operations for Production Mini-plants in mobile containers. Currently, we are preparing the installation of Assembly Plants in order to manufacture mobile production units on the site, region or country where may be required. One of the most relevant features is the fact that these assembly plants will be connected to the Operating System for World Trade, a system managed by our corporation, with access to more than 53 million raw materials, products and services and automatic transactions for world trade. A three thousand square meter (33,000 square feet) Assembly Plant at an average installation cost (depending on the country) of US$3 million produces 12 Mini-plants/day. In the first phase the assembly plant can generate 700 types of different products: Bakeries, Steel Nails, Welding Electrodes, Tire Retreading, Reinforcement Bar Bending for Construction Frameworks, Sheeting for Roofing, Ceilings and Faades, Plated Drums, Aluminum Buckets, Polypropylene-injected Housewares, Pressed Melamine Items (Glasses, Cups, Plates, Mugs, Etc.), Mufflers, Electrically-welded Construction Meshes, Plastic Bags and Packaging, Health Care Mobile Units, Medical Supplies (Hypodermic Syringes, Hemostatic Clamps, etc.) Because of financial reasons, involving cost and social impact, the right thing to do is to setting up assembly plants in the same countries and regions, using local resources (labor, some equipment, etc.) On the other hand, let's not forget that for these kind of systems there is preferred financing, both private and public, as well as from foundations, and so forth. Science Network is selecting --with high-priority character-- potential partners, both investors and strategic, for the setting up of assembly plants with a worldwide scope. In this respect, we are certain that important agreements can be reached with institutions, organizations, governments, etc. in many developing countries or in those with extremely serious social problems where a system with these features is the most appropriate solution and in many cases, the only one solution. You can obtain the document Assembly Plant for production in series of Mini-plants in mobile containers which includes the main sections: 1) Production Systems, 2) Program and Co-investment project, 3) Characteristics of a prototype Assembler Plant, 4) The Operating System for World Trade, 5) Characteristics of the Assembly Plant 6) Investment, costs and profitability, 7) Co-investment (joint-venture), Corporative structure and 8) Additional information and general outlines of the Plant. It's a document in Adobe Acrobat format (38 pages, 2MB.) Assembly Plant, Co-investment Program If you are interested in participate as an associate partner in your region or country, do not hesitate to contact this office, attaching a brief explanation of your ideas, requirements and/or projects. For more information, click here Production Mini-plants in mobile containers Map with Countries and regions of the World included in the program of Science Network«s SCiNet the Operating System for World Trade Sincerely yours, Ernesto S. Medina, SCiNet Technological Support SCiNet / IST, Tecnologas, S.A. Communications Center: Padre Damian 40, Planta 1», 28036 Madrid, Spain Tel.: (+34) 91-457-0001 Fax: (+34) 91-457-1168 VideoConference (IP) +34-913005951 E-mail: SCiNet Technological Support (C) 2001 SCiNet Corporation, All rights reserved -- Download Acrobat Reader (Free new version 5.0) -- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?
Hi Sam, Warren and All, --- Warren Rekow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sam said: I need not, nor have any desire to convince anyone on earth other than myself as to the validity of said circumstances or scientific properties thereof. clip Sam, why don't you get a tach, let you motor warm up or after a drive , check the idle rpms then take off the magnets and see if the rpms goes down. If they do your magnets are doing their job. If it doesn't you know what that means. Let us know what happens. This is a simple cheap way to test them and other types of 'fuel enhancers'. jerry dycus Amen. Sam, you say it so well. 8^) Corrosive diatribes and intolerant cynicism only serve to subvert understanding and hinder our general advancement. You can look at this site: http://www.fut.es/~sje/mag_fuel.htm as they have some info on the subject of magnets in regards to fuel, but do not take anyones word for it. This is the internet after all. Interesting web site. The method of giving opposite magnetic polarities to the incoming air and fuel certainly sounds worth experimenting with. I'll give it a go and see if I can duplicate the results given on that site and by yourself. Thanks. -- ...Warren Rekow __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
We are told the ozone hole is due to atmospheric chlorine, not energy consumption. Man's contribution to the atmospheric chlorine is 1/2 of 1%. (1/200th) Its like saying a robin flying in front of a tornado is the reason you lost your roof. The largest measured ozone hole was in 1968 which is inconsistent with man made causes. The next biggest hole was after the eruption of Pinatubo. Stratospheric chlorine is enormously affected by volcanic eruption. Man's contribution is miniscule in comparison. -Original Message- From: David Reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 5:25 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Chuck, You are not an American by any chance are you? As a member of a country with less than 5% of the worlds population (280 million divided into 6 billion = 4.67% by my reckoning) using 60% of the worlds energy maybe you should be listened to and your viewpoint as the biggest energy user have dominance. Maybe you are right and its a con job but without people argueing and discussing it no resolution or solutions is/are ever going to evolve and resolve the problem if it exists. Personally I think its man using all these vehicles and man cutting down all the trees in the world. Or maybe its all these farting sheep down here in NZ. After all there is a big hole down here in the ozone layer near Antartica and if NZ is the closest to it there has to be a reason for it so maybe this sheep idea is not so stupid. Anyway as one of the people who live here and who is obviously one of the main contributors who am I to throw stones? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Chuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union This climate change propaganda is a con job. Stop the crap. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Atmospheric ozone over Antarctica was not measured prior to 68 (or 58. They say your memory is the second thing to go)Gordon Dobson set up the monitoring station at McMurdo. Note that atmospheric ozone is measured in Dobsons. It is believed the hole is an annual phenomena and has always been there unless you are a UN scientist and are arguing for the cessation of private property rights and we all must join to overcome problems that transcend boundaries. That is why these phenomena are called political science as they are more political than science. Kirk -Original Message- From: David Reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:05 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Chuck, On further thoughts maybe the sheep idea is correct. Sheep didnt arrive in NZ until about 150 years ago and there definitely was no hole there or someone would have mentioned it. Perhaps we have got a lot of these lonely Scotsmen who obviously brought these animals as companions to blame. On second thoughts the number of sheep here has dropped from a high of 66 million or whatever it was in the early 70s to under 50 million today while the hole in the ozone has kept increasing so maybe these sheep arnt to blame after all. Without informed debate there is no problem as far as most people are concerned and no solutions can be arrived at or present themselves. At this stage to the outside world it appears America is not listening. You certainly cant have informed debate when the biggest and strongest participant pursues the path of might is right and I am going to do what I damn well want to do anyway. Yep Bush is the man for the job any day. His father proved that and a chip off the old block should do just as well. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Chuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union This climate change propaganda is a con job. Stop the crap. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Forget catalytic converters. Think afterburners. As you survey your paddock you can revel in a thousand points of light. Kirk -Original Message- From: ronald miller sr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:04 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Importance: High Hey, come on now, please stop the American bashing. We are all in this together although I would say we (Americans) should be leading the world in alternate fuel development. It's really hard for us little guys to fight the big oil companies and the government. The govenment did send me an application form for an alternate fuel plant(still)and it was only one form. As a Scottish American the only suggestion I could give on the sheep situation is to plug them with a catylitic converter (Just kidding) I really appreciate hearing views from other countries and I know a lot of people don't like us yanks but for the most part we are like any other bloaks around the world. Best regards, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Chuck, You are not an American by any chance are you? As a member of a country with less than 5% of the worlds population (280 million divided into 6 billion = 4.67% by my reckoning) using 60% of the worlds energy maybe you should be listened to and your viewpoint as the biggest energy user have dominance. Maybe you are right and its a con job but without people argueing and discussing it no resolution or solutions is/are ever going to evolve and resolve the problem if it exists. Personally I think its man using all these vehicles and man cutting down all the trees in the world. Or maybe its all these farting sheep down here in NZ. After all there is a big hole down here in the ozone layer near Antartica and if NZ is the closest to it there has to be a reason for it so maybe this sheep idea is not so stupid. Anyway as one of the people who live here and who is obviously one of the main contributors who am I to throw stones? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Chuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union This climate change propaganda is a con job. Stop the crap. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Something from Supercarbs
Here below is a test that someone else did in the Supercarbs group after I mentioned my meager mileage gain with the magnets. This is the closest thing that I have seen to establish a baseline and the effects of this highly controversial subject. I have to get back to business and my hobby regarding fossil fuels at the present and will leave you this to ponder. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu Mar 22, 2001 12:39 pm Subject: Re: Fuel line magnets---UPDATE Since I already have an engine setup for testing, I decided to give the fuel magnet a go. Here are the results: Test engine: Yamaha 173cc OHV fourstroke engine with 2.4kw alternator Fuel delivery sytem: Vortex 618 vaporizer Fuel: Unleaded petrol Ambient temp: 19.5 deg C Rel. humidity: 80% Test procedure: For each test, the engine was run with an identical load and an identical amount of fuel. The first two runs were done without magnets. Each run was than timed until the engine stopped on it's own. After that, 2off 70x50x25mm ferrite magnets where strapped to either side of the rubber fuel line, with opposing poles towards each other, about 250mm away from the float chamber of the fuel processor. Another two runs where timed under those conditions also. For the first two runs, the time was 23 min 30sec each. The first run with magnets was 28 min 30sec and the second one just over 27 min. After that another run was done for verification, on which the engine showed signes of running rich. The AFR was adjusted and a further test run performed. This time the engine went for 36 min. The AFR was meassured as being 21.5/1. When the magnets where removed, with the engine still running, the HC reading went up immidiately from 41ppm to 66 ppm. Something is going on for there sure. I will have to further reconfirm those results, but it appears that the magnets change the burn characteristic of the fuel to such an extend that a leaner mixture setting becomes necessary in order to gain maximum benefits from them. The last run represents an improvement of over 50% over the first one without magnets. This is substancial. If you have fuel injection, you might want to run an Efie together with the magnets or for a carby, maybe try smaller jets. Since the genset is governor controlled to 3000rpm, I did not notice a change in revs. All that would happen is, that the throttle setting would adjust down in order to keep the rpm constant. Hence the fuel saving. Uli Kruger Thanks for your patience, Sam Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?
Sam, why don't you get a tach, let you motor warm up or after a drive , check the idle rpms then take off the magnets and see if the rpms goes down. If they do your magnets are doing their job. If it doesn't you know what that means. Let us know what happens. This is a simple cheap way to test them and other types of 'fuel enhancers'. jerry dycus Jerry, When I put the salvaged SCSI hard drive magnets on I didn't notice any power increase as others have, but I did get 4-5 mpg higher in numerous tankfulls. Then I added some store (eBay)bought ferrite magnets ie. Fuel Boss that I purchased for $5.00 just behind the rare earth type. At this point I noticed a power increase and I did have to adjust my idle down as I was testing on a '88 Dodge Colt with an automatic tranny and it was trying to run away from me at the stoplights. I got a fairly consistant 5 mpg with that configuration as well. I was enjoying the added power and was adding a little more lead to the foot as a result. I have not tried the hydroboost and magnet combo as of yet but will look into that in the near future. The boost gave me 16-23% higher mileage. I will be building an EFIE shortly to enable me to lean out my test vehicle and bypass the computer controls over the FI. It fools the computer into thinking that the O2 sensor doesn't see what is actually there and instead of reading a lean condition and adding fuel, it remains on the lean side. I bought a test vehicle for $200, a 1990 Geo Metro XFi that I just completed a baseline mileage test on. It is getting 52 mpg with a combination of city and highway driving. I will do the tach thing with that car using various strength magnets before and after and get back with you if you would like. I have no other purpose for this car than to test various gadgets that I have purchased and some that are my own inventions that I have built in my machine shop. Some of the supercarb devices I have date back to the 1920's and 1930's. It's interesting to see what was being done at that time before supression took its toll on the automobile market. There is a lot of good stuff out there just waiting to be revisited. Sam Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Kirk, What a brilliant idea. Anyone want a contract for fitting 50 million piezo-electic crystals to 50 million sheep? We cant have farmers doing it or they will all be off on compo claiming ACC (Accident Compensation Corporation) payments as result of burnt wrists and hands. The govt will have to come to the party as if all the farmers go on strike the economy will come to a grinding halt. Mind you I suppose they could all get jobs in the cities and towns during the day and farm at night. Maybe thats the answer to the world energy and transportation problems: Flying jet sheep each with a passenger aboard. Any good cartoonists out there? B.r., David - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 2:43 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Forget catalytic converters. Think afterburners. As you survey your paddock you can revel in a thousand points of light. Kirk Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Hi Ron, Yeah I will stop if all you Americans promise to consume not more than the 5% you are entitled to. No seriously Ron I am sorry if you think what I am saying is personal and I am attacking all you Americans. It is not you Americans I am opposed to but your consumption of energy and lack of what seems a coherent policy for the future. At a time when America and the rest of the world is crying out for a leader with vision and solutions to the coming energy crisis if we continue down the same path America seems to have taken a retrograde step with reference to energy. I cant see anything inspiring in the new Energy Policy that has just been released. As I was saying the other day one of the things that existed under the Kennedy era was a certain dynamic approach to solving problems that seems to be missing in the Bush administration and other current crop of world leaders. (And before you accuse me of being a Democrat I am not, nor Republican either). The only thing fundamentally wrong with democracy and politics is politicians. Most of them from my observations tend to be tarred with the same brush). I think part of this came about because America under Kennedy made up its mind right or wrong it was going to the Moon and getting involved in other aspects of the Space Policy and went ahead and did them. As a result it was rather a challenging age. Rather than looking for and pumping more oil which is only going to bring the crisis nearer, and sitting on their hands the time to get up and run with new policies and incentives is right now. In the end there may be no crisis; time has a way of presenting solutions; but sure as the Sun is going to come up tomorrow (unless you live in Antartica at present) if you sit on your hands that crisis is going to arise. In the end I expect a lot of those solutions will come from the States. While I may not like your current energy policies I would be the first to admit that America has invested very heavy in its Universities and it is these that are more likely to provide solutions than anything else. The quickest way to do this is to offer Research Scholarships, something that is done already but something that should be greatly accelerated. You dont win a war by throwing in a few more men at the front but throwing in a large complete battalion quite often makes a difference. By the way I am not anti American and I'm also of Scots descent (one of my great ancestors set up Edinburgh University) so as one sheep shaggers descendent to another dont take me too personally. Its also not the 50 million 4 legged sheep I worry about, but the other 4 million (I share this country with), and the other 6 billion (I share this planet with), two legged sheep. The world seems to be full of sheep and pigs. Why the sheep have to be ruled by the pigs I dont know. Bah, I mean bye. B.r., David - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Hey, come on now, please stop the American bashing. We are all in this together although I would say we (Americans) should be leading the world in alternate fuel development. It's really hard for us little guys to fight the big oil companies and the government. The govenment did send me an application form for an alternate fuel plant(still)and it was only one form. As a Scottish American the only suggestion I could give on the sheep situation is to plug them with a catylitic converter (Just kidding) I really appreciate hearing views from other countries and I know a lot of people don't like us yanks but for the most part we are like any other bloaks around the world. Best regards, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Chuck, You are not an American by any chance are you? As a member of a country with less than 5% of the worlds population (280 million divided into 6 billion = 4.67% by my reckoning) using 60% of the worlds energy maybe you should be listened to and your viewpoint as the biggest energy user have dominance. Maybe you are right and its a con job but without people argueing and discussing it no resolution or solutions is/are ever going to evolve and resolve the problem if it exists. Personally I think its man using all these vehicles and man cutting down all the trees in the world. Or maybe its all these farting sheep down here in NZ. After all there is a big hole down here in the ozone layer near Antartica and if NZ is the closest to it there has to be a reason for it so maybe this sheep idea is not so stupid. Anyway as one of the people who live here and who is obviously one of the main contributors who am I to throw stones? B.r.,
Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?
except that the gas in the bowl will already be treated, so you won't notice until the gas is refreshed if it is gas. Perhaps it affects the ignition system instead. Who knows? Jay in Carson City jerry dycus wrote: Hi Sam, Warren and All, --- Warren Rekow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sam said: I need not, nor have any desire to convince anyone on earth other than myself as to the validity of said circumstances or scientific properties thereof. clip Sam, why don't you get a tach, let you motor warm up or after a drive , check the idle rpms then take off the magnets and see if the rpms goes down. If they do your magnets are doing their job. If it doesn't you know what that means. Let us know what happens. This is a simple cheap way to test them and other types of 'fuel enhancers'. jerry dycus Amen. Sam, you say it so well. 8^) Corrosive diatribes and intolerant cynicism only serve to subvert understanding and hinder our general advancement. You can look at this site: http://www.fut.es/~sje/mag_fuel.htm as they have some info on the subject of magnets in regards to fuel, but do not take anyones word for it. This is the internet after all. Interesting web site. The method of giving opposite magnetic polarities to the incoming air and fuel certainly sounds worth experimenting with. I'll give it a go and see if I can duplicate the results given on that site and by yourself. Thanks. -- ...Warren Rekow __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil
Hi Pedro You should investigate the oil content of oilseed rape - I mean the plant itself, not the seeds. And don't be put off when they tell you it's too expensive to make extraction worthwhile - that may be true for food uses, but maybe not if you plan to burn the stuff in a motor. Other plants may be worth investigating for this too. I think we maybe haven't started focusing properly on all the available sources of oil. I reckon you're on the right track, please keep going. Good luck! Regards Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ And to be converted into biodiesel ??. There is a lot of wine production in Spain and the European Union could help to sell this superavit ( excess ). It could be interesting with the nowadays european union agriculture politics. We need a lot of oil to be used instead of petrol . How much source we could get, cheaper and more accesible it will be : - Vegoil from any class of grain ( grape, lemon residues - grains - used in another processes ) and vegetable. - Vegoil from vegetable waste oil. - Biodiesel from milk ( there is a lot of milk in the European Union - superavit know like black milk - ). There is a problem with the olive oil : the price. And in the future perhaps with the sunflower oil : if there is not enought the price will rise. So, one can say : convert everything into vegoil or biodiesel. We can research or publish the production process and later use it if there is political help ( excess of production in the raw material ) to be economically interesting ;) All the best. --- Elabore caseramente biodiesel para su actual motor de gasoil petrolfero La solucin a sus problemas energticos. http://sitio.de/energia http://journeytoforever.org/energiaweb/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Oh man, that car is really smoking!
Steve Spence wrote: I remember video's of a magnesium fighter plane being pushed over the side of a carrier, because they couldn't put the fire out. As a firefighter, I'd not want to respond to this kind of car fire. Indeed not. And of British warships burning in the Falklands War, if I recall. Not so easy to push a ship overboard, eh? What'd you do if the car made of hemp caught fire? Stand downwind? :-) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ snip http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=10915 Planet Ark Magnesium use in cars could double in five years BELGIUM: May 22, 2001 BRUSSELS - Magnesium use in the manufacture of automobiles could double in the next five years as demand for lightweight, fuel- saving materials grows, a major industry conference heard yesterday. snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biofuels vs petrofuels
What about the starving millions in the world who still do not get fed properly. Maybe with everyone switching over to fuel production this number will increase with some of those millions being in the countries of production. Oh well never mind rather than bread they can eat cake. In this case oil seed cake but whats the difference anyway? Hell they might even get a few additives as well. 370,000 million tons should only take up a few acres shouldnt it and maybe I dont need to worry. B.r., David No you don't need to worry. Biofuels needn't compete with food production. We've covered this ground before. There's a great deal of information available on it. One major point is that the starving millions in the world do not starve because there isn't enough food - there's more than enough food, more food per capita than there's ever been before, more than enough to make everyone fat. There's no evidence that switching over to fuel production would have any effect at all on their situation. Plenty of references for all this in the archives. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:14 AM Subject: [biofuel] biofuels vs petrofuels Why does this not make a major political issue, seeing as how, with all the farmers, especially the small farmers with otherwise uneconomical operations, all need a new product, and this appears to be it. Raise grain, etc, to convert to biofuels, even set up your own biofuels conversion unit, and provide the energy we need that could, it appears, even replace petro altogether. Ipsofacto: new products stabilizing a farm economy that continually needs to be supported, minimized national security problems not having to depend on the Arabs. Less air pollution. Emphasizing small scale and appropriate technologies, etc etc. The only losers would be the big oil companies, who, however, would somehow eventually take over with their economies of scale, etc. Am I dreaming or what? How do the Democrats viiew this as an issue, or are they also bought off by the special interests. Why hasn't this openly surfaced on the national agenda.If only as an argument against drill, drill, drill, and avoiding the ANWHR drilling -- a biodiesel economy might even compete on a time frame basis, considering the time required to build new refineries, build new pipelines, new drilling, etc. Make available some well-developed, small plant, plans, with listing of the materials required and some demonstrated results, and every farmer could get in the business. Comments anyone What is wrong with this and why hasn't it been surfaced on a national scale, unless there is some vast conspiracy going on to keep everything in the hands of the status quo? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biofuels vs petrofuels
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why does this not make a major political issue, seeing as how, with all the farmers, especially the small farmers with otherwise uneconomical operations, all need a new product, and this appears to be it. Raise grain, etc, to convert to biofuels, even set up your own biofuels conversion unit, and provide the energy we need that could, it appears, even replace petro altogether. A lot of people are thinking like this now, including a lot of people on this list, and not just thinking, many are doing. I guess the reason it's not resounding thunderously in high places is just as you say, most of them are interested in small-scale, local initiatives - bottom-up stuff, which is as it should be. Ipsofacto: new products stabilizing a farm economy that continually needs to be supported, minimized national security problems not having to depend on the Arabs. Don't demonise the Arabs too much, it's not quite like that. Less air pollution. Emphasizing small scale and appropriate technologies, etc etc. The only losers would be the big oil companies, who, however, would somehow eventually take over with their economies of scale, etc. Maybe not - if it were firmly rooted at the local community level it might not be so easy to muscle in and sweep it all aside, as is their usual style. I think their much trumpeted economies of scale are pretty much a bunch of crap, actually. The big corps are flabby, wasteful, and inefficient. Some, maybe many, industrial-scale operations do need to be on the industrial scale, but this isn't one of them. Am I dreaming or what? We're all dreaming! Follow your dreams! Make them reality! The key to a rich and worthwhile life! How do the Democrats viiew this as an issue, or are they also bought off by the special interests. So it would seem, so people say. Why hasn't this openly surfaced on the national agenda.If only as an argument against drill, drill, drill, and avoiding the ANWHR drilling -- a biodiesel economy might even compete on a time frame basis, considering the time required to build new refineries, build new pipelines, new drilling, etc. I'm sure you're right, but it seems to me that maybe the current rather blatant tenancy of Big Oil in the White House might be helping to wake many people up to just these possibilities. Could be backfiring a bit, eh? Make available some well-developed, small plant, plans, with listing of the materials required and some demonstrated results, and every farmer could get in the business. Yep, that's the idea. Comments anyone What is wrong with this and why hasn't it been surfaced on a national scale, unless there is some vast conspiracy going on to keep everything in the hands of the status quo? That there certainly is! What surfaces on the national scale is usually the same old top-down stuff that landed us where we are now: no change. Do you know of these people? Institute for Local Self-Reliance http://www.ilsr.org/ The Institute for Local Self-Reliance (ILSR) is a 23-year old organization that works with both the public and private sectors in the US on economic development through the efficient use of local resources. Carbohydrate Economy Clearinghouse (CEC) http://www.carbohydrateeconomy.org/ Created by the Institute for Local Self-Reliance (ILSR) to provide up-to-date information spanning all facets of the carbohydrate economy, from paints and inks to fuels and construction materials. Search huge resources of news, information, reports and studies on ethanol and other biofuels: http://www.carbohydrateeconomy.org/ceic/Search2/search.cfm Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Atmospheric ozone over Antarctica was not measured prior to 68 (or 58. They say your memory is the second thing to go)Gordon Dobson set up the monitoring station at McMurdo. Note that atmospheric ozone is measured in Dobsons. It is believed the hole is an annual phenomena and has always been there unless you are a UN scientist and are arguing for the cessation of private property rights and we all must join to overcome problems that transcend boundaries. That is why these phenomena are called political science as they are more political than science. Kirk But I don't think the peasants of southern Chile get into a lot of sunbathing these days. There are reports their skin cancer rates are way up. Could be more to it, or less - I need more info on it, got to do some digging. I thought the British guys only discovered the Antarctic hole in the mid-late 80s. Are you sure there was a hole in 68? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
Hi Kirk We are told the ozone hole is due to atmospheric chlorine, not energy consumption. Man's contribution to the atmospheric chlorine is 1/2 of 1%. (1/200th) Its like saying a robin flying in front of a tornado is the reason you lost your roof. The largest measured ozone hole was in 1968 which is inconsistent with man made causes. The next biggest hole was after the eruption of Pinatubo. Stratospheric chlorine is enormously affected by volcanic eruption. Man's contribution is miniscule in comparison. Not to disagree, but miniscule factors can have unpredictable and potentially enormous consequences in complex systems. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: David Reid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 5:25 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Chuck, You are not an American by any chance are you? As a member of a country with less than 5% of the worlds population (280 million divided into 6 billion = 4.67% by my reckoning) using 60% of the worlds energy maybe you should be listened to and your viewpoint as the biggest energy user have dominance. Maybe you are right and its a con job but without people argueing and discussing it no resolution or solutions is/are ever going to evolve and resolve the problem if it exists. Personally I think its man using all these vehicles and man cutting down all the trees in the world. Or maybe its all these farting sheep down here in NZ. After all there is a big hole down here in the ozone layer near Antartica and if NZ is the closest to it there has to be a reason for it so maybe this sheep idea is not so stupid. Anyway as one of the people who live here and who is obviously one of the main contributors who am I to throw stones? B.r., David - Original Message - From: Chuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union This climate change propaganda is a con job. Stop the crap. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
snip By the way I am not anti American and I'm also of Scots descent (one of my great ancestors set up Edinburgh University) so as one sheep shaggers descendent to another dont take me too personally. Its also not the 50 million 4 legged sheep I worry about, but the other 4 million (I share this country with), and the other 6 billion (I share this planet with), two legged sheep. The world seems to be full of sheep and pigs. Why the sheep have to be ruled by the pigs I dont know. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. But Animal Farm was about Stalin's USSR, not humanity at large. Sure, there's plenty of evidence to hand that most people are easily-led sheep and too many are pigs, but I think there's even more evidence, if you want to find it, that mostly they're all too human. Usually that's intended to mean only human, or merely human - fallible, gullible, inept. Greedy. Selfish. Corruptible. I don't agree with that. Ordinary people are capable of extraordinary things, and regularly demonstrate it. I think they're a pretty cool bunch. Bah, I mean bye. What an old grumble-guts! Cheer up! :-) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water / snipping
Hi Gerry Gentlemen,.and the ladies out there. I have been rather quiet on all those debate out there. There was an article on top US researchers carrying out tests to verify whether there is such thing as 'chi' energy in Qigong ,practised by the Chinese for thousands of years. And by many other peoples. It's been eroded away by development and the techno-century, but some form of chi (ki in Japanese) practice seems to have been widespread. For instance, both the Dutch and the Italians, and so I guess other European peoples, practised indigenous forms of acupuncture, which utilises the same energies. English traditional healing dealt with the same concepts of hot and cold (yin and yang) foods and herbal medicines. This also seems to have been widespread. I was rather skeptical about this energy as it cannot be seen. Neither can nuclear energy, microwaves, x-rays, gravity, etc etc etc. What energy can be seen directly? That is what the researchers felt after their investigation.Their However I got a chance to learn under this pyshic lad. I have to take back my words that 'chi' does not exist. This lad was standing about 150 feet away while our group was sitting on the fall meditating. With a slight wave of his palm, the whole group experiences a surge of energy flowing thru our bodies. This was a kind of tingling sensation and felt wonderful. I do not want to be drawn into arguments on those hi tension cable stuff, but with my experience with Qigong, I would give them a wide berth. Wise. As for microwaves, there have been some studies of microwave cooking that found profound effects on the food. I don't think the staff of the the US Embassy in Moscow in the 80s would agree that microwaves are harmless - they got severely zapped by Russian microwave-born eavesdropping. After all, like all living things, we're partly electrical, or electro-chemical, why should we think we're immune to electrical (etc) bombardment? We sure aren't immune to chemical bombardment. There's a case for the precautionary principle, at least on a personal level. Re magnets and fuel economy, well, no harm in trying. Steve's right when he says the true believers will just say we did it wrong if we don't get results. Well, that's up to them, but I'd be interested to see the results of some well-controlled tests. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Gerry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union
The 80's was imaging, a UV camera. Prior to that point measurements were made but not an image. Dobson thought his gear was broken as the data seemed unreasonable to him. Later he rationalized why Antarctica behaves that way-- A donut rotor isolates the land during the winter and Mt Erebus pumps HCl into the atmosphere thus zapping O3. Spring sees the donut degrade and atmospheric isolation ends. Sun makes new ozone and so penguins don't need sunglasses. People who don't eat raw vegetables are much more susceptible to skin cancer. So much for modern diet. I had a precancerous growth on my left arm (steering wheel on left side of vehicle so left arm gets sun). A trial run of vegetarian diet (for other reasons) produced the unanticipated result of healing on left arm. Further reading left me with idea nutrition has a lot to do with sun reactions. Kirk -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:12 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union Atmospheric ozone over Antarctica was not measured prior to 68 (or 58. They say your memory is the second thing to go)Gordon Dobson set up the monitoring station at McMurdo. Note that atmospheric ozone is measured in Dobsons. It is believed the hole is an annual phenomena and has always been there unless you are a UN scientist and are arguing for the cessation of private property rights and we all must join to overcome problems that transcend boundaries. That is why these phenomena are called political science as they are more political than science. Kirk But I don't think the peasants of southern Chile get into a lot of sunbathing these days. There are reports their skin cancer rates are way up. Could be more to it, or less - I need more info on it, got to do some digging. I thought the British guys only discovered the Antarctic hole in the mid-late 80s. Are you sure there was a hole in 68? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water / snipping
David, you may find the web site posted by Sam to be interesting. How it works is still a mystery to me, though I can think of some things which may somehow be related. At the sub-atomic level matter/energy has a magnetic component to it. At the molecular level many molecules have a magnetic moment associated with their polarity. Hence, such molecules will tend to align with the lines of a magnetic field. Even non-polar fluids like organic solvents may still have some small degree of molecular polarity. How it works is not yet defined so far as I know, but in the case of the polar fluid water it also seems that water has the ability to retain a magnetic/energetic 'memory' for a significant period of time. However, perhaps like the competent driver who has no concept of how an engine works, we may still be able to use magnets even if we don't know how they do their 'magic'. We simply need to experiment and learn what does and does not work, like you seem to be doing. Cheers, Warren, Yes, the web site posted by Sam was the first I visied before testing (also there are one mirror in spanish ). It's very convincent and incite to explore this phenomenon. In any case, if the water retains certain magnetism, why it's not possible to be detected with a compass for example? Regards David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: B100 schools switch - was [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings
I think it would be better to market B20 as the real problem is public awareness, as I see it. You can achieve a broader distribution with fewer problems. Its also fully certified. But anyway, like Keith says: 'strength to your arm'. Mike -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:00 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: B100 schools switch - was [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings Working on getting the Berkeley Unified School District here in California to switch to B100, will update with progress, -Andrew Best of good luck, and strength to your arm. Please update as poss. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Tallow
I have heard that much of the used veggie oil is being added to feedstock direct. Aside from the low nutritional value, what are your thoughts on this? Mike -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:00 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow bob golding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote I think that the BSE prion does not survive the rendering process. Yes it does. Prions are more resistant to steam sterilization than conventional transmissible agents. Extremely resistant to dry heat: a treatment of 360 deg C for one hour has been reported not to be completely effective. It's through exports of rendered products by a British company that BSE could have been spread across the world (70 countries received protein potentially contaminated with BSE that may then have been fed to their cattle). The BSE scare has kind of killed the market worldwide for rendered products. Tallow prices are probably generally lower, wherever you are. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: beeteljeuse beelzebub [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:52 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive.. You say As a result of BSE... Are we talking about using beef tallow from europe? what is up with this? Are cattle products from affecected nations even allowed past customs? Good god, I hope not. Allen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re unsubscribe messages
Steve I have been lurking here four several months, I thought your replies were both helpful and polite. So don't worry about it, the angry people of the world will have to live with their own misery. John Brewer Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re unsubscribe messages
Thank you. I try. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: John Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re unsubscribe messages Steve I have been lurking here four several months, I thought your replies were both helpful and polite. So don't worry about it, the angry people of the world will have to live with their own misery. John Brewer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Self loading trailers are used extensivly in Australia. The Lifting arms ar on hydrolic rams and can be adjusted to suit 20 40 foot containers, and can postion a 20 footer to correctly position the weight distribution on the trailer. These trailers have supporting legs powered by hydrolic rams to support the trailer when a loaded container is swung off the side. Without these legs the trailer will tip over. Most of these trailers have their own auxiliary motors to run the rams. We also have four legged mobile lifting frames ( self powered) which will lift 35 ton containers and move them around. Empty containers weigh only a counple of ton and can be lifted with two standard type fork-lifts. John Brewer Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oh man, that car is really smoking!
of course! ;-) - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 3:11 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oh man, that car is really smoking! Steve Spence wrote: I remember video's of a magnesium fighter plane being pushed over the side of a carrier, because they couldn't put the fire out. As a firefighter, I'd not want to respond to this kind of car fire. Indeed not. And of British warships burning in the Falklands War, if I recall. Not so easy to push a ship overboard, eh? What'd you do if the car made of hemp caught fire? Stand downwind? :-) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ snip http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=10915 Planet Ark Magnesium use in cars could double in five years BELGIUM: May 22, 2001 BRUSSELS - Magnesium use in the manufacture of automobiles could double in the next five years as demand for lightweight, fuel- saving materials grows, a major industry conference heard yesterday. snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Yahoo! Website Services- Click Here! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil - Oil Sources
I agree that we need to look and keep looking at actual processes to try and find ways to do things better, to look for lost opportunities. Probably wine is best used as an already fermented feedstock for ethanol fuel. Don't know the current price, but relatively decent table wine in Spain used to be cheaper than bottled water. To my knowledge it is difficult to reverse the process that causes vinegar. You're probably stuck with it. The grape pits are a nice source for oil as it is a byproduct that isn't used for anything else (that I know of). There should be literally tons of grape mashings left over from the production of wine. Rather than have them just go to waste, potentially you have a good source of energy. I don't think it was very cheap to extract the oil for edible use -- based on the price that they sold the grape seed oil in the health food store. However, as someone pointed out, oil extraction could be a lot cheaper if one doesn't care if the end result is an edible oil. There are probably other sources of oil in plants stems and similar that we just haven't ever thought about. I think to that we need to look for things where we benefit twice or more. The prime example of this is the utilization of waste cooking oil. Here is something that has been used already and generally has just been discarded. When we use it a second time in the production of biodiesel, we are gaining a big benefit. In Spain, and Europe in general, (and I fear most of the rest of the world) the big waste product that should be coming down the line will be the rendering of all the animals exposed to BSE and FMD. There will be and have been literally millions upon millions of animals destroyed. This amounts to a huge source of oil that could be used in the production of biodiesel. Regards, Derek W. Hargis - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:20 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil And to be converted into biodiesel ??. There is a lot of wine production in Spain and the European Union could help to sell this superavit ( excess ). It could be interesting with the nowadays european union agriculture politics. We need a lot of oil to be used instead of petrol . How much source we could get, cheaper and more accesible it will be : - Vegoil from any class of grain ( grape, lemon residues - grains - used in another processes ) and vegetable. - Vegoil from vegetable waste oil. - Biodiesel from milk ( there is a lot of milk in the European Union - superavit know like black milk - ). There is a problem with the olive oil : the price. And in the future perhaps with the sunflower oil : if there is not enought the price will rise. So, one can say : convert everything into vegoil or biodiesel. We can research or publish the production process and later use it if there is political help ( excess of production in the raw material ) to be economically interesting ;) - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil I think the problem with both, ethanol and acetic acid, vinegar, is that the carbon chain isn't long enough. There are reactions to combine carbon chains and lengthen them, but I don't know if they would be cheap enough to compete with what nature does for you in the form of naturally occurring oils. Spain has a lot of other natural oils. They are one of the world's largest producers of olives, several different nuts, and the last time I visited, there were huge fields of sunflowers. Derek W. Hargis - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil What about get oil from vinegar ?? :? ( CH3-COOH ) or similar vinegar bypass product ???. - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel There is a very fine edible oil made from grape pits in Spain. A very nice delicate oil, fabulous for salads, unfortunately, quite expensive. I am not aware of any economical process to turn ethanol into a usable oil. Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel But in any way, can one get oil from alcohol or from vineyard ???. This is interesting, because in Spain there is a lot of vineyard production ( grapes ) that could be used to produce some class of oil . Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
[biofuel] canola (rape) plant oil extraction
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Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant
John, I can envision a system lifting from the ends to move a single 40 foot container or a single 20 foot container. However, I often see two separate 20 foot containers on a single forty foot trailer. Will this system somehow adjust so that the center part of the two 20 foot containers can be supported? Can the two 20 foot containers be lifted on and off independently from a forty foot trailer with this self-loading system? Regards, Derek W. Hargis - Original Message - From: John Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:38 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant Self loading trailers are used extensivly in Australia. The Lifting arms ar on hydrolic rams and can be adjusted to suit 20 40 foot containers, and can postion a 20 footer to correctly position the weight distribution on the trailer. These trailers have supporting legs powered by hydrolic rams to support the trailer when a loaded container is swung off the side. Without these legs the trailer will tip over. Most of these trailers have their own auxiliary motors to run the rams. We also have four legged mobile lifting frames ( self powered) which will lift 35 ton containers and move them around. Empty containers weigh only a counple of ton and can be lifted with two standard type fork-lifts. John Brewer Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] simple still Web site?
Somebody posted a link not too long ago to a Web site giving, in about 14 pages, a simple scheme for distilling alcohol. I downloaded the pdf version of the document, but the file is corrupt and I need to try again. This was not a site reachable from the Biofuels page. Help! Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] canola (rape) plant oil extraction
oops, sent that last by mistake. my question is:- Say you take a growing canola plant (rape) at say flowering time and distill the oil from the plant. If the oil content is 10% of the plant, would the plant material left over be suitable for another purpose (ie, for ethanol) apart from compost. By distillation, would there be more oil per acre than allowing the plant to ripen and harvest the seed?. Would the chlorophyl be in the oil and would this affect the bio-diesel (ester). Thanks, John Amory, Victoria, Australia. Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Power plant builders look to vegetable oil for solutions
http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=VEGGIEPOWER-05-22-01cat=AN [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Tallow
I have heard that much of the used veggie oil is being added to feedstock direct. Aside from the low nutritional value, what are your thoughts on this? Mike Hi Mike Problems with that too since the dioxin scare in Belgium. Used oil value is right down, at least in Britain. If you just measure the protein it does have nutritional value, and that seems to have been the approach. It always beat me though that the high FFA content made it unsuitable for human consumption but not to feed animals raised for human consumption. I think a lot of people are asking questions like that now. Also of course a lot (most?) of the used veggie oil contains animals fats and oils. Should it be fed to grass-eaters? People are saying No. All these practices are being looked at. It's okay to feed meat and bonemeal to chickens, it seems, according to industry. It's also okay to feed chicken litter (manure and bedding) to grass-eaters. No no, the prion can't get into the cattle that way. Uh-huh. That from the folks who gave us prions in the first place, and then denied they existed. Now we know all about prions though, so it's quite safe. Actually we know there's a rather undescribed thingie with a label on it that says prion, and the court is still out on how the cattle got infected in the first place, and the humans. No doubt there are other unknown thingies down the road that we'll also find labels for in time, after denying they exist. The sane thing to do with all this stuff, tallow included, is to turn it into fuel. And accomplish in the doing what Terry calls the ethical switch, stop turning our livestock into cannibals. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:00 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Tallow bob golding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote I think that the BSE prion does not survive the rendering process. Yes it does. Prions are more resistant to steam sterilization than conventional transmissible agents. Extremely resistant to dry heat: a treatment of 360 deg C for one hour has been reported not to be completely effective. It's through exports of rendered products by a British company that BSE could have been spread across the world (70 countries received protein potentially contaminated with BSE that may then have been fed to their cattle). The BSE scare has kind of killed the market worldwide for rendered products. Tallow prices are probably generally lower, wherever you are. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Agualux Fuel plant blows up!
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Re: [biofuel] simple still Web site?
Hi Marc Somebody posted a link not too long ago to a Web site giving, in about 14 pages, a simple scheme for distilling alcohol. I downloaded the pdf version of the document, but the file is corrupt and I need to try again. Do you mean the StillMaker? It's here: http://stillmaker.dreamhost.com/ This was not a site reachable from the Biofuels page. Which Biofuels page? It's on our Ethanol page, and Steve's ethanol page at Webconx. http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html Ethanol resources on the Web Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Help! Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil - Oil Sources
I like a lot your letter. But we can use alcohol to produce diesel, if possible, because we have now ready diesel motors ;) You are right : use of unused material ( grape pits ), the reutlization of waste vegoil and the use of the animoil from animals destroyed. Because of this I have joined to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bio-oil ( bio-oil = vegoil or oil derivated from animals, animoil ). I will forward your letter there, because it«s interesting for all the researches. All the best. ;) Pedro. Elabore caseramente biodiesel para su actual motor de gasoil petrolfero La solucin a sus problemas energticos. http://sitio.de/energia http://journeytoforever.org/energiaweb/ - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil - Oil Sources I agree that we need to look and keep looking at actual processes to try and find ways to do things better, to look for lost opportunities. Probably wine is best used as an already fermented feedstock for ethanol fuel. Don't know the current price, but relatively decent table wine in Spain used to be cheaper than bottled water. To my knowledge it is difficult to reverse the process that causes vinegar. You're probably stuck with it. The grape pits are a nice source for oil as it is a byproduct that isn't used for anything else (that I know of). There should be literally tons of grape mashings left over from the production of wine. Rather than have them just go to waste, potentially you have a good source of energy. I don't think it was very cheap to extract the oil for edible use -- based on the price that they sold the grape seed oil in the health food store. However, as someone pointed out, oil extraction could be a lot cheaper if one doesn't care if the end result is an edible oil. There are probably other sources of oil in plants stems and similar that we just haven't ever thought about. I think to that we need to look for things where we benefit twice or more. The prime example of this is the utilization of waste cooking oil. Here is something that has been used already and generally has just been discarded. When we use it a second time in the production of biodiesel, we are gaining a big benefit. In Spain, and Europe in general, (and I fear most of the rest of the world) the big waste product that should be coming down the line will be the rendering of all the animals exposed to BSE and FMD. There will be and have been literally millions upon millions of animals destroyed. This amounts to a huge source of oil that could be used in the production of biodiesel. Regards, Derek W. Hargis - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:20 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil And to be converted into biodiesel ??. There is a lot of wine production in Spain and the European Union could help to sell this superavit ( excess ). It could be interesting with the nowadays european union agriculture politics. We need a lot of oil to be used instead of petrol . How much source we could get, cheaper and more accesible it will be : - Vegoil from any class of grain ( grape, lemon residues - grains - used in another processes ) and vegetable. - Vegoil from vegetable waste oil. - Biodiesel from milk ( there is a lot of milk in the European Union - superavit know like black milk - ). There is a problem with the olive oil : the price. And in the future perhaps with the sunflower oil : if there is not enought the price will rise. So, one can say : convert everything into vegoil or biodiesel. We can research or publish the production process and later use it if there is political help ( excess of production in the raw material ) to be economically interesting ;) - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil I think the problem with both, ethanol and acetic acid, vinegar, is that the carbon chain isn't long enough. There are reactions to combine carbon chains and lengthen them, but I don't know if they would be cheap enough to compete with what nature does for you in the form of naturally occurring oils. Spain has a lot of other natural oils. They are one of the world's largest producers of olives, several different nuts, and the last time I visited, there were huge fields of sunflowers. Derek W. Hargis - Original Message - From: Pedro M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil What about get oil from vinegar ?? :? ( CH3-COOH ) or similar vinegar bypass product ???. - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:09
[biofuel] my humble comments...
Dear Colleagues, I would like to say few words no biodiesel and bioetanol. Everybody knows that these fules are good for the environment. In Poland there is a lot of acreage of rapeseed. The only offtakers of the seed have been vegetable oil and margarine producers. Now we have oversupply or rapeseed. At the same time in our country there is at least 50% of excise tax put on biofuels produced from plants. This is is the main obstacle to rapid development of biodiesel fuuesl in our country. I am extremelty interested how this situation looks like in other countries. Greetings Jan Surwka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] my humble comments...
Greetings Jan Dear Colleagues, I would like to say few words no biodiesel and bioetanol. Everybody knows that these fules are good for the environment. In Poland there is a lot of acreage of rapeseed. The only offtakers of the seed have been vegetable oil and margarine producers. Now we have oversupply or rapeseed. At the same time in our country there is at least 50% of excise tax put on biofuels produced from plants. This is is the main obstacle to rapid development of biodiesel fuuesl in our country. Oh dear! Why must they always do it?? I am extremelty interested how this situation looks like in other countries. Please have a look at British list member Terry de Winne's website, Biofuels for Sustainable Transport, to see how this has been handled in Britain. A similar situation, but Terry and other UK biofuellers fought the issue, and won. It can be done! http://www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/ Focus on biodiesel and lots of well-annotated resources: http://www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/sustain.htm For the full story on biodiesel and UK taxation: http://www.dewinne.freeserve.co.uk/bio.htm For the British DTI's attitude to energy: http://www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/dtienergy.htm Green Fuel Challenge -- the case for biofuels: http://www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/challenge.htm Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Greetings Jan Surwka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
