Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
Hi Hakan There isn't any humus in linseed oil. Triglycerides and some other stuff, but no humus. Once it's dried (or cured - is there a difference Greg?) it's pretty inert. >Hi Keith, > >Well in that case I mean humus as in soil and this is >why you have to wash sand and gravel if it contains >humus, before you use it in concrete. That is why I wanted >to see the experiments referred to in the link, >http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/flaxind7.htm >not because I say that it cannot be used, but I want to be >sure. Humus breaks down the concrete and I hate to see >that happen around reinforcement bars, that are dependent on >a good fixation to the concrete. You could write to the Flax Council and ask: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It says: "A testing program completed at the University of Hong Kong in 1996, proved conclusively that linseed oil-based preservatives extend and enhance the life of concrete. Linseed oil-based preservatives have significant potential in areas such as Hong Kong and other parts of southeast Asia. These regions have high concentrations of real estate which is principally concrete." There's more information here: http://www.agr.gc.ca/cb/news/1996/n60626ae.html Successful concrete preservative test opens major Asian market "The testing program was conducted at the University of Hong Kong by Professor Y.K. Cheung, Pro-Vice Chancellor and Head of Engineering, and one of southeast Asia's most senior engineers. The program leader was Dr. H.C. Chan, head of the Civil Engineering Laboratory, at the University of Hong Kong. The University of Manitoba supported the project through the work of Dr. Sami Rizkalla, president of Intelligent Sensing for Innovative Structures (ISIS) Canada and professor of civil engineering. The testing equipment was designed and constructed by the University's engineering team under Dr. Rizkalla's leadership." That will have been high-quality work. This is the Hong Kong research report: "Xie, Y., Kwan, A.K.H., Chan, H.C. and Rizkalla, S.H. Linseed oil-based concrete surface treatment for building and highway structures in Hong Kong. Transactions, Hong Kong Institution of Engineers, Hong Kong, Hong Kong Institution of Engineers, 1999, 6 (1): 36 - 41." >One other sample is that old habit by construction workers to >use concrete floors, before they finished the curing process, >or mixing buckets, as urinary. Very dangerous and things that >was stopped in Sweden 30 years ago, but I have still seen in >Spain. To complete the curing process, (we call it burning, >directly translated from Swedish), takes much longer than >most people think.I have also seen damages from this, that >destroyed costly insulation or load carrying constructions. > >I want to be very clear about that I do not know, if there are >any adverse effects from linseed oil. If not, I want to know >that this is investigated. When it comes to carrying concrete >constructions, I prefer to know than assume. I am a little bit >scary about this things, since I have seen some bad samples >of mistakes and/or unqualified use of materials. HKU's Civil Engineering dept is pretty good. I think Hong Kong has seen perhaps all possible permutations of bad building practices by now, with some fairly horrific consequences. As a result, for quite a long time already, they've had a high level of expertise in investigations, setting standards and controls, in the universities and in government too. I don't think they'll be making any rash mistakes with anything that could affect concrete load factors. I can't help wondering why they didn't try tung oil instead, which is more local at least. No Canadian subsidies maybe. Best Keith >One sample was mentioned, when somebody said that the >grey plastic pipes was generally used in heated floors during >a period. I do not know in which country, but it did not surprise >me, must have been a less developed country without the >sufficient knowledge about materials. > >As a surface treatment of cured concrete, it should be no >problems at all, but I still would be interested in the specifics >of any investigation and the benefits. > >Hakan > > >At 06:43 AM 12/17/2002 +0900, you wrote: > >Hi Hakan > > > >I'm confused by your saying "humus material". Do you mean organic > >material, or biological material? Humus is what you get in soil, or > >should if it's still alive, complicated stuff. Sorry, after what > >we've just been saying about English! :-) > > > >Linseed oil or flaxseed oil is a drying oil, why it's used in paints > >and varnishes (I'm sure you know this), and also why it's not a very > >good idea in your motor. It polymerizes, and becomes relatively inert > >and impervious. Don't you think treatment of reinforcement bars with > >linseed oil would be okay as long as the linseed oil was allowed to > >dry (set) first before pouring the concrete? It's a lot like a > >plastic coating. Well, it is a plastic coating. > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > > > >I
[biofuels-biz] Bubble Drying and drying questions in general
Apologies to those on multiple lists for all the cross-posting. I spammed a couple of the biofuel-related lists last week with some complaints about trying to make biodiesel in the midst of some dramatic local weather. We got the first real winter storm, serious rain- the Northern California version of winter is lots of rain and 60F. Not too much to complain about considering I've lived in Leningrad and in New York. But this weekend I wasn't too happy about the timing: my biodiesel equipment is all outside, and I had a lot of fuel that I had JUST finished washing, and it was time to let it 'dry' or 'settle'. But the weather out there was pounding down rain (the remnants of a Typhoon that hit Guam a few days earlier, it turns out). I'd just recently found some info, re-reading a couple of the the U of Idaho biodiesel reports, about bubble drying fuel. It somehow didn't make it into common homebrewers' practice, everyone I've talked to said, yeah, I remember reading that, but I didn't think about applying it to my situation. So I tried it out under the worst possible conditions- ran a bubblestone into a tank of hazy biodiesel that was carefully swathed in tarps (therefore no real opportunity for the moisture in the biodiesel to excape outside the now-closed tank)- and ran some severely humid air through it. People have different techniques and theories about 'drying' biodiesel after washing. Some people leave it in an open container, and claim that it clears up any water haze in anything from a day to a week. It sounds to me that the people doing this live in dry regions. We don't. Others (like Aleks Kac' published acid-base two-stage directions) say to let fuel settle for three weeks or so until it clears water haze. Other options include heating it to drive off water. There are some problems with this- among them, the fact that the MSDS for biodiesel says that biodiesel fumes are not harmful to health- unless heated. I was prepared to do this as I really needed some finished fuel, but I feel like it's not something to take lightly, besides the obvious unnecessary energy input. At our biodiesel coop, we do the 'settling' technique after washing fuel. Sometimes it takes 10 days, but quite often it is still hazy after that point. I was getting frustrated about having all of these drums of settling fuel sitting around at the co-op, taking up storage space, not clearing in the humid weather. It was the bottleneck that was messing up fuel production capacity- we store fuel to settle before washing, then we wash for three days and then we store it some more. And this is a 12' x 8' space in which we are trying to produce fuel for about 15-25 drivers (not very successfully). Sheesh. Seems like a common problem for small-scale homebrewers. So back to the wet weather bubbledrying- it worked to clear haze in that fuel, humid air and all. The 'technique' is to chuck an airstone into a tank of hazy fuel, and bubble for 24-? hours. It doesn't seem to make a really HUGE difference how much fuel you're working with- around here (in the humidity) Kenneth Kron cleared 3 gallons in 12+ hours, Mr.Biosmell cleared 55 gallons in similar conditions of humidity in under 24 hours, which seems about average for the several experiments with this so far (though in Nevada, Rainer Busch dried some fuel this way in 2-3 hours, in the dry desert air)... In the storm, buried under a thick lid of plastic tarp, my Wet Air treatment seemed to clear up a drum of hazy fuel in something like two days. (I didn't check after the first 24- I eventually got sick of wading outside to see whether the entire site was going to go airborne or to float away in the storm, and of babysitting the flapping tarps at my house. I threw a bunch of wood on top of the tarps to hold them down against all the wind, and ran away to the boyfriend's house where I could observe the storm from the comfort of a decadent California hot tub where I still spent too much time worrying that my biodiesel site was floating away). 48 hours into the bubbledry I got back home to some clear fuel and more cloudy skies. Some thoughts and questions: So the big question for me is, does clearing fuel 'haze' actually remove water content? Most homebrewers consider 'clear' fuel to be dry fuel. three weeks of settling will do this. The drylands(?) Infopop people say that 'letting it sit outside in open drums exposed to drying breezes' does this in 24 hours to a week. After prolonged settling, there will also be various crud at the bottom of the settling tank, and often some hazy fuel near the bottom of the settling tank. I haven't observed it closely enough to see if there's also visible free water. My local chemist friend Rainer confirmed (??) that the amount of interface between air, and the water content of the biodiesel would be much greater with bubbling than with just blowing air over the surface (w
[biofuel] Bubble Drying and drying questions in general
Apologies to those on multiple lists for all the cross-posting. I spammed a couple of the biofuel-related lists last week with some complaints about trying to make biodiesel in the midst of some dramatic local weather. We got the first real winter storm, serious rain- the Northern California version of winter is lots of rain and 60F. Not too much to complain about considering I've lived in Leningrad and in New York. But this weekend I wasn't too happy about the timing: my biodiesel equipment is all outside, and I had a lot of fuel that I had JUST finished washing, and it was time to let it 'dry' or 'settle'. But the weather out there was pounding down rain (the remnants of a Typhoon that hit Guam a few days earlier, it turns out). I'd just recently found some info, re-reading a couple of the the U of Idaho biodiesel reports, about bubble drying fuel. It somehow didn't make it into common homebrewers' practice, everyone I've talked to said, yeah, I remember reading that, but I didn't think about applying it to my situation. So I tried it out under the worst possible conditions- ran a bubblestone into a tank of hazy biodiesel that was carefully swathed in tarps (therefore no real opportunity for the moisture in the biodiesel to excape outside the now-closed tank)- and ran some severely humid air through it. People have different techniques and theories about 'drying' biodiesel after washing. Some people leave it in an open container, and claim that it clears up any water haze in anything from a day to a week. It sounds to me that the people doing this live in dry regions. We don't. Others (like Aleks Kac' published acid-base two-stage directions) say to let fuel settle for three weeks or so until it clears water haze. Other options include heating it to drive off water. There are some problems with this- among them, the fact that the MSDS for biodiesel says that biodiesel fumes are not harmful to health- unless heated. I was prepared to do this as I really needed some finished fuel, but I feel like it's not something to take lightly, besides the obvious unnecessary energy input. At our biodiesel coop, we do the 'settling' technique after washing fuel. Sometimes it takes 10 days, but quite often it is still hazy after that point. I was getting frustrated about having all of these drums of settling fuel sitting around at the co-op, taking up storage space, not clearing in the humid weather. It was the bottleneck that was messing up fuel production capacity- we store fuel to settle before washing, then we wash for three days and then we store it some more. And this is a 12' x 8' space in which we are trying to produce fuel for about 15-25 drivers (not very successfully). Sheesh. Seems like a common problem for small-scale homebrewers. So back to the wet weather bubbledrying- it worked to clear haze in that fuel, humid air and all. The 'technique' is to chuck an airstone into a tank of hazy fuel, and bubble for 24-? hours. It doesn't seem to make a really HUGE difference how much fuel you're working with- around here (in the humidity) Kenneth Kron cleared 3 gallons in 12+ hours, Mr.Biosmell cleared 55 gallons in similar conditions of humidity in under 24 hours, which seems about average for the several experiments with this so far (though in Nevada, Rainer Busch dried some fuel this way in 2-3 hours, in the dry desert air)... In the storm, buried under a thick lid of plastic tarp, my Wet Air treatment seemed to clear up a drum of hazy fuel in something like two days. (I didn't check after the first 24- I eventually got sick of wading outside to see whether the entire site was going to go airborne or to float away in the storm, and of babysitting the flapping tarps at my house. I threw a bunch of wood on top of the tarps to hold them down against all the wind, and ran away to the boyfriend's house where I could observe the storm from the comfort of a decadent California hot tub where I still spent too much time worrying that my biodiesel site was floating away). 48 hours into the bubbledry I got back home to some clear fuel and more cloudy skies. Some thoughts and questions: So the big question for me is, does clearing fuel 'haze' actually remove water content? Most homebrewers consider 'clear' fuel to be dry fuel. three weeks of settling will do this. The drylands(?) Infopop people say that 'letting it sit outside in open drums exposed to drying breezes' does this in 24 hours to a week. After prolonged settling, there will also be various crud at the bottom of the settling tank, and often some hazy fuel near the bottom of the settling tank. I haven't observed it closely enough to see if there's also visible free water. My local chemist friend Rainer confirmed (??) that the amount of interface between air, and the water content of the biodiesel would be much greater with bubbling than with just blowing air over the surface (w
Re: [biofuel] Re: Engine conversion
"motie_d " wrote: > > > I think the Olds 350 and the Chevy 5.7 Diesel are 2 different engines > that are being confused. No. The engine was an Oldsmobile diesel. The starter is on the driver's side, rather than the passenger's side, so the oil filter boss has to be on the passenger side with the Olds engine. > > The Chevy 5.7 Diesel was junk, but a friend found a use for several > of them. He used the basic Diesel Engine, and installed Heads and > Intake Manifold from a Gasoline engine, and had what he called > a 'Bullet-proof 350'. I think he used 2 or 3 head gaskets stacked up, > to lower to compression ratio. This was a common "solution" for the 5.7 liter diesel. It makes a long lasting gasoline engine because it's beefier, but honestly, I've never had a durability problem with a regular small block Chevy! > > His current 'thing' is rebuilding 350 Chev Gasoline Engines using the > crankshaft from a 400cid engine. That increases displacement to > 383CI, and really increases the torque with the longer throw on the > crankshaft. He installs these in 4X4 pickups for snowplowing and > towing applications. It's a cool idea to do this with the 5 liter engines too. Such a powerplant would have monstrous torque and decent fuel economy. However, it's easier to get a decent compression ratio using flat topped or dished pistons with a bigger displacement engine. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] [Fwd: FBI Surveillance]
Who is in their underwear? We don't use any clothes at this time of the year. Merry Xmas to all. raw -Original Message- From: Robby Davenport [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 9:51 AM To: Art Stone; bryan; biofuel@yahoogroups.com; Chuck Griffith (E-mail); 'Davenport, Nancy'; Dot Casey; Frederick E. Finch; Gary Burtle; gene franco; George Breckenridge; Glenn Franco; Greg Paul (E-mail); Jan; Jul Dot Davenport; keith paul; Ken Vanhorn; Kevin Chisholm; kim (davenport); Mark Tomlin (E-mail); mike davenport; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Monica Milner; PCarterS; Rick Shelia Hutchison; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ronnie Mcquinn (E-mail); Robert Neely; RUDET FOUNTAIN; Schott, Christopher S MSGC; steve spence; stewart webb; Valerie Kalscheur; Valerie Kalscheur Subject: [biofuel] [Fwd: FBI Surveillance] well you can't surf the internet in your underwear anymore, look at this. be afraid be very afraid . the FBI has configured your coursor as a camera or pair of "eyes" Original Message Subject: FBI Surveillance Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 21:47:25 -0500 From: "Ray Dicks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bobby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ira Griffith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Laura Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Mike Culver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Randy Beecham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: "adam pollock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "rabarnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Hill, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'jimmy'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> FBI Surveillance. A no win situation http://users.chartertn.net/tonytemplin/FBI_eyes/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Canada signs and ratifies Kyoto Protocol
"womplex_oo1 " wrote: > The Kyoto Protocol is now law in Canada. This law will help us > introduce renewable fuels such as ethanol and biodiesel, which will > help us survive as a civilization. Kyoto will also help reduce > greenhouse gases Yes, but will the authorities change their ridiculous laws concerning home ethanol fuel production? Unlikely! robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: Raw Palm Oil transesterification - issues
Thank you Keith I have posted the pertinent posts (1508 & 1526) from the FFA discussion to the Infopop continuous processor thread. Michael Allen's explanation of the esterification process is very appropriate to understanding the workings of ColinS' plant design. Also your reference lead me to finally discovering the reference (the Canakci/Gerpen paper) which I believe inspired Aleks Kak's work on the acid/base process (?) Best regards John S. --- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Is anyone able to post an overview of the issues involved in making > >biodiesel from raw palm oil please ?? Or provide some URL's. > > > >John Smith > > It's been pretty well covered here in the last few months, especially > by Michael Allen. Do an archive search for "Allen" and check the > thread called "High FFA oils - another way" and associated threads: > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuels-biz > > Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Going into biodiesel business
I'm relatively new to biodiesel. I'm a General Contractor and stumbled across Biodiesel while researching for an "off the grid" construction project. I have become totally consumed by the idea. I've read everything I can get my hands on. I now am considering the prospect of going into the Biodiesel business. I'm no chemist but my family owns a custom industrial rubber and plastics business and I grew up building tanks and working on process equipment. I would like your input on the feasibility of such a venture. Has anyone been successful on an entry level scale? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [Fwd: FBI Surveillance]
well you can't surf the internet in your underwear anymore, look at this. be afraid be very afraid . the FBI has configured your coursor as a camera or pair of "eyes" Original Message Subject: FBI Surveillance Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 21:47:25 -0500 From: "Ray Dicks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bobby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ira Griffith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Laura Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Mike Culver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Randy Beecham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: "adam pollock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "rabarnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Hill, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'jimmy'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> FBI Surveillance. A no win situation http://users.chartertn.net/tonytemplin/FBI_eyes/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.ZSp6B/dlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > don't know about the gm's, but we used ether in sub zero temps to start our > big trucks every morning. just a quick shot in the breather to get it > turning. most starters can be overrun, so it may have been a fluke in your > issue. > Big Truck Diesels don't have Glow Plugs. His Suburban 6.5 does. NEVER use Starting Fluid and Glow Plugs at the same time! Glow Plugs with #2 Diesel Fuel are good to about 10F, without a block heater. You may be able to start down to 0F with #1 Diesel Fuel. Colder than that, you will need heat or Starting Fluid. -20F or colder will need both heat and Starting Fluid. Most Loggers in my area have a Hydraulic Hose quick-coupler inline in the Heater hose on their pickup engine. When starting cold Diesels, you pull up close, and couple connecting hoses to the engine from the heater on the pickup, and usually jumper cables to warm up the batteries. Within 20 minutes the Diesel is at operating temp without being started or cranked. It then starts easily without undue wear and tear on the starter. Watch the Oil Pressure Gauge! If no pressure reading within 30 seconds, shut it off, and heat the Oil pan with a Propane Torch until the Oil is thinned enough for the Oil Pump to pick it up. Synthetic Engine Oils are a wonderful invention and well worth the extra cost for extreme cold starting. Many Loggers don't work when the temp is below -20F, and few work if it is -40F. Productivity is down, and maintainance costs can go way up. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "harley3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Never use "starting fluid" in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid once > in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto the > ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth off my > torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. > > Harley Or at least disable the Glow Plugs first. They tend to work as Spark pLugs. It's perfectly safe to use Starting Fluids in Diesel Engines, but NOT with activated Glow Plugs! A bit of Starting Fluid can save a lot of wear and tear on starter and batteries. I've been doing it for 30 years in extreme cold. If Starting Fluid won't fire it up, you'll need to heat it. Not for amateurs, so I won't go into any detail that may lead someone to do something really expensively wrong. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Engine conversion
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Odiksx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks alot for your info about converting "gasoline" > engine to diesel engine. As a review; finding a diesel > engine instead of converting is better... > I think the Olds 350 and the Chevy 5.7 Diesel are 2 different engines that are being confused. The Chevy 5.7 Diesel was junk, but a friend found a use for several of them. He used the basic Diesel Engine, and installed Heads and Intake Manifold from a Gasoline engine, and had what he called a 'Bullet-proof 350'. I think he used 2 or 3 head gaskets stacked up, to lower to compression ratio. I can't give him the credit for the idea or the term. I think he got the idea from one of his very many Hot Rod magazines. He did sell a lot of them. The Diesels were very cheap in the junk yards, and intake manifolds from a wide variety of years would fit them. His current 'thing' is rebuilding 350 Chev Gasoline Engines using the crankshaft from a 400cid engine. That increases displacement to 383CI, and really increases the torque with the longer throw on the crankshaft. He installs these in 4X4 pickups for snowplowing and towing applications. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel/suggestions
Though wash problems weren't a main point of this thread, they've come up again in there, so... Let's not forget that soaps (I guess I've made this point in this thread already) also cause wash problems, along with the wash problems caused by poor conversion. I think when you have emulsification (sounds like Paul did a few weeks ago, and I'm wondering if it's related to his skin/middle layer formation), it's hard to tell what causes it, without testing. It's good idea to do some sleuthing to try to figure out what caused it and to try and to determine which of the two conditions it is- soaps of poor conversion. Soapy biodiesel I've made also produced skins and middle layers that I assume were soaps. the soaps bit correlated to high initial pH and then to washing problems. And to very, very white first wash water once it did separate Maybe I'm wrong about this, but in my experience the skin formation correlates to higher pH, and to wash problems. I assume when I see a skin or a transluscent, greyish middle layer, it's a sign that a hard wash is coming. For me this means that there was water in the oil, or that I used too much catalyst, or that it was high-ffa oil (which I almost never work with unless I'm doing it to make a point to students or something). Some biodiesel I'm working with right now (we made 150-200 gallons before realizing that it emulsifies like crazy in the wash, our mistake in getting slack on doing regular quality testing) has the opposite problem, emulsifying but the pH looked like it was going to be decent fuel. I reprocessed some and a lot of glycerine dropped out on that batch, so I;'m leaning towards poor conversion rather than soaps etc as the source of the problem. I agree that we all might be talking about several different skin-forming phenomena here, though. I personally have very little experience with animal fats as feedstock, and I know that animal fats can introduce some other variables into the picture than vegetable oils. Paul, you're working with several variables that could potentially lead to either soaps or to poor conversion. My suggestion is for you to try to eliminate some of these variables by trying a trial with some very conventional processing to get a 'baseline' idea of how that oil might behave. Conventional in my mind includes: 1. DG and MG: eliminate agitation as a variable by running a long 1-hour agitation on a bucket-batch, drill/paintstirrer-agitated, maybe pulling some samples at 15-minute intervals to run tests on, to see what role agitation plays in the fuel quality. 2. DG and MG again: get the temperature up somehow. Try to make sure your small 10L batches don't lose heat so fast. I've done 2-stage in 10-liter batches and it requires a lot of reheating to remain at proper temperature. Of course it might be more crucial in two-stage acid/base, or maybe not... it seems that with singlestage some people have had problems with improper temperature as well. A hot water bath for the jugs you're using, or an immersion heater for a 5-gallon metal can, or a hotwater heater element for the same metal can, or doing a 10-liter batch in a canning kettle on a hot plate (still drill-agitated)... 3. Soaps: eliminate water as a variable and use a non- conc. aqueous process just for this trial. 4. Soaps: again, eliminate water as a variable by dewatering the oil you';re using. 5. catalyst quantity: trial and error batches, assume that you don't know what the base amount of catalyst should be for that particular oil. Work with 3.5 on up to 5 g base catalyst (for NaOH anyway) 6. conversion % again: Make sure your methanol doesn't evaporate, though in jugs it shouldn't 7. eliminate the 'glycerine draining' variable, though I can't see what difference this should make, doesn't seem harmful to me. 8 then try your entire own process, jugs, conc aqueous, low agitation, and all, with some totally different feedstock oil... Good luck! Mark At 07:11 PM 12/16/2002 +1000, you wrote: >- Original Message - >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel > > > > Hi Paul, Michael > > > > How do you maintain the heat during the processing hour, Paul? > >Keith as this is trully a bucket method of temporary production I don't >maintain the 55 deg. The plastic bucket loses heat slowly. > > > You're using an aqueous solution of catalyst to make methoxide? > >Yes > > > Wouldn't draining off the glycerine as soon as possible also drain > > off some excess methanol? > > >By "draining off as soon as possible" I mean after the final settling after >last stirring, reaction should have gone as far as it can go by then without >further heat and stirring. Methanol excess to reaction will have dispersed >itself in both BD and glycerine. If there is to be no further reaction, the >more excess methanol that comes off in the glycerine the better. > > > And doesn't severe emulsification durin
[biofuel] EU to aim for energy taxation deal in January
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/19018/story.htm EU to aim for energy taxation deal in January EU: December 13, 2002 BRUSSELS - European Union finance ministers will aim to reach a deal in January on planned common rules for the taxation of energy products, German Finance Minister Hans Eichel said. Germany had been blocking the planned EU bill as it was opposed to granting France and Italy an extension of tax-breaks for road hauliers, but there was a clear indication that differences had been bridged at a EU finance ministers' meeting in Brussels. "I am assuming that in January an agreement on energy taxation will come," Eichel told reporters after the protracted meeting which was taken up with discussions on taxing interest on savings. Belgium Finance Minister Didier Reynders had also earlier indicated a deal on harmonised rules for the taxation of energy could be on the cards. "I have the feeling...that we are practically all in agreement on the energy dossier," Reynders told a news briefing on the sidelines of the meeting earlier in the day. "There are no more differences between Germany and France on this point." The EU has debated for years the merits and drawbacks of setting minimum tax levels for energy products, but has never agreed on the matter which requires unanimity among the bloc's 15 member states. Currently the EU only has minimum energy tax levels on mineral oils. The new rules would impose tax floors for a range of other energy products. Environmentalists see energy tax as an essential policy to spur companies and individuals to use energy frugally and reduce the pollution caused by fossil fuels and nuclear power. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] EU to aim for energy taxation deal in January
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/19018/story.htm EU to aim for energy taxation deal in January EU: December 13, 2002 BRUSSELS - European Union finance ministers will aim to reach a deal in January on planned common rules for the taxation of energy products, German Finance Minister Hans Eichel said. Germany had been blocking the planned EU bill as it was opposed to granting France and Italy an extension of tax-breaks for road hauliers, but there was a clear indication that differences had been bridged at a EU finance ministers' meeting in Brussels. "I am assuming that in January an agreement on energy taxation will come," Eichel told reporters after the protracted meeting which was taken up with discussions on taxing interest on savings. Belgium Finance Minister Didier Reynders had also earlier indicated a deal on harmonised rules for the taxation of energy could be on the cards. "I have the feeling...that we are practically all in agreement on the energy dossier," Reynders told a news briefing on the sidelines of the meeting earlier in the day. "There are no more differences between Germany and France on this point." The EU has debated for years the merits and drawbacks of setting minimum tax levels for energy products, but has never agreed on the matter which requires unanimity among the bloc's 15 member states. Currently the EU only has minimum energy tax levels on mineral oils. The new rules would impose tax floors for a range of other energy products. Environmentalists see energy tax as an essential policy to spur companies and individuals to use energy frugally and reduce the pollution caused by fossil fuels and nuclear power. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Canada ethanol plants need federal help-industry
Abandon this top-down, decentralized, think-big view and instead do everything to encourage small-scale, local production, from backyards up, including coops and on-farm operations, and I think the picture would be rather a different one. Keith http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/19036/story.htm Canada ethanol plants need federal help-industry CANADA: December 13, 2002 WINNIPEG, Manitoba - Lack of startup capital and marginal returns could put the brakes on plans to expand Canada's ethanol industry, despite an optimistic outlook announced in one Prairie province. The Manitoba government said it will consider fostering the industry by mandating the use of cleaner ethanol-blended gasoline in the province. But unless the federal government creates more appealing tax incentives, similar to those available for U.S. ethanol producers, plans in Manitoba and other parts of Canada will stall, said Bliss Baker, president of the Canadian Renewable Fuels Association. "Without these additional incentives, I suspect we will not have much of an ethanol industry - period - in the future," Baker told Reuters. The lobby group met with federal finance officials this week to plead for Ottawa to double tax incentives to 20 Canadian cents (13 U.S. cents) a litre in the next federal budget, due in February. U.S. incentives equal to 23 Canadian cents a litre have helped boost that market enough to spur the opening of one new ethanol plant each month this year, Baker said. Five Canadian plants currently produce about 235 million litres (62 million U.S. gallons) a year of the high-octane, water-free alcohol made from grain, and import another 100 million litres annually from the United States. Ethanol-blended gasoline emits lower levels of greenhouse gases. By 2010, Ottawa wants a third of Canadian gasoline to contain ethanol as part of its plan to implement the Kyoto protocol. That would create an annual market for 1.33 billion litres of ethanol, Baker said. But current returns on ethanol production are "marginal, at best," Baker said, meaning investors and banks are reluctant to sink money into plants that cost C$100 million ($64 million) on average. "Our view is we can't get there without some type of initial incentives to help finance plants," Baker said. MANITOBA SAYS WANTS TO BECOME LEADER Manitoba, the province that was home to the country's first ethanol plant 20 years ago, could produce up to 140 million litres a year, according to a government-commission study released this week. "We've intentionally focused on an approach that would maximize local investment and economic benefits for rural Manitoba," said Garth Manness, head of Credit Union Central, who led the study. But it will cost more to produce ethanol in Manitoba than in the neighboring province of Saskatchewan, or nearby states like Minnesota and South Dakota, a prominent agricultural economist told Reuters. That's because Manitoba farmers don't grow enough wheat and would have to import feed to supply both hog farms and ethanol plants, said Daryl Kraft of the University of Manitoba. "The only caution I have is to the investors who are going to put their money into these processing facilities: they better proceed with due diligence," Kraft said. Manness said farmers would grow more feed wheat if they could access higher-yielding varieties, currently unavailable in Canada. Story by Roberta Rampton REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Canada ethanol plants need federal help-industry
Abandon this top-down, decentralized, think-big view and instead do everything to encourage small-scale, local production, from backyards up, including coops and on-farm operations, and I think the picture would be rather a different one. Keith http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/19036/story.htm Canada ethanol plants need federal help-industry CANADA: December 13, 2002 WINNIPEG, Manitoba - Lack of startup capital and marginal returns could put the brakes on plans to expand Canada's ethanol industry, despite an optimistic outlook announced in one Prairie province. The Manitoba government said it will consider fostering the industry by mandating the use of cleaner ethanol-blended gasoline in the province. But unless the federal government creates more appealing tax incentives, similar to those available for U.S. ethanol producers, plans in Manitoba and other parts of Canada will stall, said Bliss Baker, president of the Canadian Renewable Fuels Association. "Without these additional incentives, I suspect we will not have much of an ethanol industry - period - in the future," Baker told Reuters. The lobby group met with federal finance officials this week to plead for Ottawa to double tax incentives to 20 Canadian cents (13 U.S. cents) a litre in the next federal budget, due in February. U.S. incentives equal to 23 Canadian cents a litre have helped boost that market enough to spur the opening of one new ethanol plant each month this year, Baker said. Five Canadian plants currently produce about 235 million litres (62 million U.S. gallons) a year of the high-octane, water-free alcohol made from grain, and import another 100 million litres annually from the United States. Ethanol-blended gasoline emits lower levels of greenhouse gases. By 2010, Ottawa wants a third of Canadian gasoline to contain ethanol as part of its plan to implement the Kyoto protocol. That would create an annual market for 1.33 billion litres of ethanol, Baker said. But current returns on ethanol production are "marginal, at best," Baker said, meaning investors and banks are reluctant to sink money into plants that cost C$100 million ($64 million) on average. "Our view is we can't get there without some type of initial incentives to help finance plants," Baker said. MANITOBA SAYS WANTS TO BECOME LEADER Manitoba, the province that was home to the country's first ethanol plant 20 years ago, could produce up to 140 million litres a year, according to a government-commission study released this week. "We've intentionally focused on an approach that would maximize local investment and economic benefits for rural Manitoba," said Garth Manness, head of Credit Union Central, who led the study. But it will cost more to produce ethanol in Manitoba than in the neighboring province of Saskatchewan, or nearby states like Minnesota and South Dakota, a prominent agricultural economist told Reuters. That's because Manitoba farmers don't grow enough wheat and would have to import feed to supply both hog farms and ethanol plants, said Daryl Kraft of the University of Manitoba. "The only caution I have is to the investors who are going to put their money into these processing facilities: they better proceed with due diligence," Kraft said. Manness said farmers would grow more feed wheat if they could access higher-yielding varieties, currently unavailable in Canada. Story by Roberta Rampton REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: cold weather starting
I remember when it was so cold the barking of the dogs froze right into the snow banks. You should have heard it during Spring thaw! :) I saw a couple of our hunting dogs out in the field with jumper cables trying to jump start a jackrabbit! That's Montana cold. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 7:23 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: cold weather starting back home it was so cold, the spit never left your lips ;-) Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:11 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: cold weather starting > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Actually, when I lived in Canada, we did ski in -40. It was great > > because there were so few people on the hill. I loved it. BTW, - > 40 is > > both C & F, it is the point where they meet. > > > > I had a 1/4 ton truck that was diesel, we used to just leave it run > when > > it got that cold. > > > > Bright Blessings, > > Kim > > > Don't do anything strenous enough to make you gasp for breath, or > break into a sweat. Frost-bitten lungs are worse than Pneumonia and > damp clothing leads to hypothermia rather quickly. Drinks lots of > fluids, and eat plenty of high-calorie foods. Use a 'Buddy system' if > possible. Don't be out alone when it gets that cold. > A simple rule of thumb is if you can't spit on the ground without it > freezing before impact, it's cold enough to be careful. > > Motie > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/2002 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
annoying way to get water out of BD was Re: [biofuel] Interesting way to get the water out of BD
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, studio53 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm still confused- can you clear this up just one more time, please- I > promise I'll write it down- is girl mark a guy or girl? > I'll start by being a [EMAIL PROTECTED] Does it really matter? Pay attention to her thoughts and ideas, regardless of gender. I debate in several other Forums, and the Liberals feel a strong need to catagorize your thoughts and opinions based on Gender, Race, Religious background, Sexual Preference, Ethnicity, etc. That's why I use the 'Handle' I do. I prefer to have my ideas and thoughts evaluated and considered on the merits of my presentatins, not on any of the above criteria. They tend to attack the Messenger, and ignore the message. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: cold weather starting
back home it was so cold, the spit never left your lips ;-) Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:11 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: cold weather starting > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Actually, when I lived in Canada, we did ski in -40. It was great > > because there were so few people on the hill. I loved it. BTW, - > 40 is > > both C & F, it is the point where they meet. > > > > I had a 1/4 ton truck that was diesel, we used to just leave it run > when > > it got that cold. > > > > Bright Blessings, > > Kim > > > Don't do anything strenous enough to make you gasp for breath, or > break into a sweat. Frost-bitten lungs are worse than Pneumonia and > damp clothing leads to hypothermia rather quickly. Drinks lots of > fluids, and eat plenty of high-calorie foods. Use a 'Buddy system' if > possible. Don't be out alone when it gets that cold. > A simple rule of thumb is if you can't spit on the ground without it > freezing before impact, it's cold enough to be careful. > > Motie > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Radiant heating with (bioD or WVO-fired) radiators (was Re:[biofuel]Steel roofing plus other building links -(Wasembodied energy)
I put together a similar type of unit for a buddy's RV, Webasto engine heater around 44000btu and a rad/fan from a Hyundai - never tried BD or SVO but toasty 25deg C in the dead of winter (-20)on D2. Has anyone done any mods to one of these units for SVO? Lots of exp with diesel heater (I'm a truck mechanic) Seems 12vdc 10A operation and built in circulating pump would lend itself well to off grid apps robert luis rabello wrote: > craig reece wrote: > > > Heating with biodiesel or SVO would involve a diesel coolant heater, and > > I'm in the beginning stages of calculating how large a unit I'd need, > > but I suspect that a diesel coolant heater would work if it had same > > BTU's that a hydronic heating engineer or contractor would spec for the > > boiler or water heater for square footage involved. > > The system has to be designed to cover heat loss for the house in > question. We paid an engineer to do what I could have done myself (well, > maybe not--maths have never been my strong point!), but it had to be approved > by the municipal authorities before we installed our boiler. We ended up > with a 50 000 Btu per hour unit. The rest of the contractors laughed at our > "toy" boiler! > > A 10 kW diesel gen set will surpass this in total waste heat, but I > imagine that less than 30 000 Btu is recoverable from the engine coolant. > However, such a system would utilize the SVO or Biodiesel much more > efficiently than simply burning it for power, which brings down overall > costs. > > robert luis rabello > "The Edge of Justice" > Adventure for Your Mind > http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] waste or weed crop oils
Yeah, Keith- think waste crops and weeds and we're thinking outside the mainsteam of biofuel thought...I'm thinking these Laurel (Laurus Nobilus) hedges around town which grow like bandits annually, and which produce oil (they're a member of the avocado family I believe) might prove a good fuel oil and yield from wastenot to mention the essential oil uses which can be harvested at the same time. -Myles Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil)
Using liquid fuels to produce electricity for any other use than backup/emergency is not very efficient. The best source for electricity would be the dried biomass, sans seeds. ( ~16.8 million Btu per ton, 3 + tons per acre, 4,650 + kWh per acre). Heat would be the useable byproduct of the gasification (CHP - Continual Heat & Power). Other alternative for the biomass is to implement pyrolytic conversion to manufacture methanol. That would amount to ~186 gallons of methanol per ton, or ~568 + gallons per acre. US DOE releases dated 1995 state a manufacturing cost of $0.20 a liter, with expectations of reducing those costs to ~$0.13 a liter. There literally is no other plant, save for perhaps algae (still in experimental stages), that can produce the same amount of biomass per acre in the same 90-120 day time period. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil) > If these formerly waste materials are good for using as some > transportation fuels (such as in tractors) I wonder if they couldn't > also be used in generating electricity or heat. > > > > On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:12:43 -0500, you wrote: > > >Tim, > > > >No hemp farmer in Canada or Europe is expending $600 per acre in > >order to get a $600 return. > > > >When you look at those who are cold pressing the seed for oil, > >you find that there is an inordinate amount of sludge that gets > >separated from the readily filterable oil. Cold pressing does not > >give the luxury of high immediate yields (although it does offer > >the luxury of "solvent free") and due to the nature of the food > >grade oil business a great percentage of the oil is discarded as > >sludge. Eventually the sludge separates even further, leaving > >approximately 60% of what was discarded to be used for "less than > >food grade" purposes. > > > >This is the oil that would be used for biodiesel, not the > >intially pressed oil. > > > >At present, several of the oil producers in Canada are > >stockpiling their sludge. This has resulted in large quantities > >of hemp seed oil becoming available for fuel conversion. > >Considering the fact that this was once considered to be a "waste > >product," utilizing it as farm fuel is not an unattractive end > >use. > > > >As well, the fines that settle out of the sludge are a superb > >chicken feed - yet another free product of what was once > >relegated to the category of "waste." > > > >Todd Swearingen > > > >- Original Message - > >From: Tim Castleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: > >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:21 PM > >Subject: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil) > > > > > >> From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Subject: Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy? > >> > >> Why not? > >> > >> > I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could > >make just > >> > enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this > >could be > >> > worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably > >not.) > >> > >> This is one of those impossible questions, the answer will > >never satisfy because the fact is hemp cannabis HAS been > >deliberately repressed, several million $ is spent each year on > >eradication efforts on feral hemp, for example. DEA drug warriors > >are emotionally and financially attached to their work, and so > >perpetuate many lies and place many barriers. Perhaps the most > >insidious of which are the divisions within the > >cannabis/hemp/marijuana culture itself. > >> > >> This repression has prevented development of the crop per se, > >thus leaving us with the familiar chicken and egg scenario. > >Bottom line, when petroleum stays at $30 bbl, a plant-based > >economy will emerge. > >> > >> Meanwhile, yes, a farmer could grow hemp, harvest the seed and > >extract the oil for on farm use, but why would he with all the > >other oil crops available that will produce much more oil than > >hemp? In a practical sense, and most farmers are practical to a > >fault, to spend $600 or so to grow $600 or so worth of fuel only > >works with government subsidies. He would rather just buy it and > >save himself all that work! > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> Biofuels at Journey to Forever > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> Biofuel at WebConX > >> http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > >> List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: > >> http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuel at WebConX > >http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > >List messages are archived at the
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
Hi Keith, Well in that case I mean humus as in soil and this is why you have to wash sand and gravel if it contains humus, before you use it in concrete. That is why I wanted to see the experiments referred to in the link, http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/flaxind7.htm not because I say that it cannot be used, but I want to be sure. Humus breaks down the concrete and I hate to see that happen around reinforcement bars, that are dependent on a good fixation to the concrete. One other sample is that old habit by construction workers to use concrete floors, before they finished the curing process, or mixing buckets, as urinary. Very dangerous and things that was stopped in Sweden 30 years ago, but I have still seen in Spain. To complete the curing process, (we call it burning, directly translated from Swedish), takes much longer than most people think.I have also seen damages from this, that destroyed costly insulation or load carrying constructions. I want to be very clear about that I do not know, if there are any adverse effects from linseed oil. If not, I want to know that this is investigated. When it comes to carrying concrete constructions, I prefer to know than assume. I am a little bit scary about this things, since I have seen some bad samples of mistakes and/or unqualified use of materials. One sample was mentioned, when somebody said that the grey plastic pipes was generally used in heated floors during a period. I do not know in which country, but it did not surprise me, must have been a less developed country without the sufficient knowledge about materials. As a surface treatment of cured concrete, it should be no problems at all, but I still would be interested in the specifics of any investigation and the benefits. Hakan At 06:43 AM 12/17/2002 +0900, you wrote: >Hi Hakan > >I'm confused by your saying "humus material". Do you mean organic >material, or biological material? Humus is what you get in soil, or >should if it's still alive, complicated stuff. Sorry, after what >we've just been saying about English! :-) > >Linseed oil or flaxseed oil is a drying oil, why it's used in paints >and varnishes (I'm sure you know this), and also why it's not a very >good idea in your motor. It polymerizes, and becomes relatively inert >and impervious. Don't you think treatment of reinforcement bars with >linseed oil would be okay as long as the linseed oil was allowed to >dry (set) first before pouring the concrete? It's a lot like a >plastic coating. Well, it is a plastic coating. > >Best > >Keith > > > >I am saying that humus material is bad for concrete before it is cured, > >please look at my message. Concrete does not cure properly with humus > >material, which is one of the first things you learn about concrete. I > >asked for documentation of investigations that it could be used in/on > >concrete before it has cured. I see no reason why it should be bad after, > >but to suggest treatment of reinforcement bars after the concrete cured is > >a little bit difficult. To mix cement with biological material is normally > >a no-no and I have seen many such mistakes in control inspections. > > > >I thought my message below was clear on the point of before or after. > > > >Hakan > > > >At 12:13 PM 12/16/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > >Could you please elaborate? You keep saying humus or humus partials > is bad > > >for concrete, but, that is all you say. Why would boiled linseed oil > be bad > > >for concrete after it has cured? > > > > > >Greg H. > > > > > >- Original Message - > > >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: > > >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:04 > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was > > >embodiedenergy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you put linseed oil on a cured floor it is one thing. But it you put > > > > humus particles in concrete before it is cured, I know that it can be a > > > > disaster. > > > > > > > > Hakan > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Article about biofuel business
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > A start for that might be found in the current over-production of > sugar beet, rather than using inequitable trading arrangements to > dump it on 3rd World countries, distorting their markets and rural > sectors. > > And (unlike the US) maybe it will occur to someone to marry the two > and replace the methanol in biodiesel with ethanol. > > Keith Keith, I am working on the Project you just mentioned above, among a few other things. It will be a combination Rape-seed Processing Plant, Ethanol from excess Sugar Beets, with process Energy supplied by waste wood sawmill byproducts. The Ethanol and Oil may be marketted separately, or combined into Biodiesel, whichever is more economically feasable, and will be subject to change with the market demands. Have you ever heard the analogy of trying to herd Cats? I am trying to combine 4 distinctly separate herds of Cats, and get them to move in the same direction at the same time, somewhat cooperatively. It isn't boring! Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy?
MM wrote: >I am happy to consider the idea that it is the other products in a >barrel which really bring home a somewhat higher margin of money, but >the figure that you cite ($27,000 per about 2.4 barrels of oil) sounds >absurd and for the moment the only thing it really does is prevent me >from lending any credibility to it. It does look absurd, but Pavsner generally knows what he's talking about. Maybe I'll write to him and ask, I'd been thinking of doing that. On the other hand, think of some of the chemical applications, such as in the fragrance industry, flavourings, drugs, electronics, high-value stuff used in small quantities. So much of it comes from petrochemicals. How many chemicals are there? ScienceNet says they don't know. I found this: "More than 100,000 human-made chemicals have been introduced into the environment in the past 50 years. More than 1,000 new chemicals are developed each year. Wherever you live, there are probably more than 250 synthetic industrial chemicals in your body that were not present in the bodies of your grandparents when they were your age." I guess it's not accurate to say that the oil companies themselves make that much, but with all the many steps before it gets to the end-user that might be the case. I do sometimes regard the oil companies, the chemicals industry, the drugs corporations, and the fertilizer and pesticides industries as pretty much one phenomenon, it can be difficult to draw clear lines of distinction between them. Anyway, maybe we can do without the fossil-fuels and just keep the chemicals? That would be a more rational use of the oil reserves rather than just burning it all up. Maybe we could do quite well without a lot of the chemicals too. Regards Keith > >>>I was not aware > >>that it was so accepted that co-products are what is relatively more > >>profitable from a barrel of oil. > > > >This is one figure we had: "As I stated on many occasions, someone > >calculated that for every 100 gal oil the industry recovers $100 > >worth gasoline from half of the barrel and $27 000 in other chemicals > >from the other half." -- Dr. Laszlo Paszner of the Faculty of > >Forestry at UBC, who developed the Acid Catalyzed Organosolv > >Saccharification process (ACOS), in a message to the Bioenergy list > >at Crest. > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > > >>I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make just > >>enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this could be > >>worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) > >> > >> >Ok, a word about co-products. As has been correctly pointed out > >>here, the majority of profits from a barrel of oil come from the > >>co-products. The fuel itself is actually quite low value, > >>comparatively. The same principal will apply to the Biorefinery > >>envisioned. We will produce ethanol more as a public benefit than as > >>a profitable venture. The profits will be found in the co-products > >>and value adding done during processing. > >> > > >> >Lastly, I wanted to invite you to register and login to the all > >>new FaFCo portal, www.fuelandfiber.com - I have set up a whole set > >>of tools for you to use. Perhaps there is something useful there? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~-> Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy?
MM wrote: >I am happy to consider the idea that it is the other products in a >barrel which really bring home a somewhat higher margin of money, but >the figure that you cite ($27,000 per about 2.4 barrels of oil) sounds >absurd and for the moment the only thing it really does is prevent me >from lending any credibility to it. It does look absurd, but Pavsner generally knows what he's talking about. Maybe I'll write to him and ask, I'd been thinking of doing that. On the other hand, think of some of the chemical applications, such as in the fragrance industry, flavourings, drugs, electronics, high-value stuff used in small quantities. So much of it comes from petrochemicals. How many chemicals are there? ScienceNet says they don't know. I found this: "More than 100,000 human-made chemicals have been introduced into the environment in the past 50 years. More than 1,000 new chemicals are developed each year. Wherever you live, there are probably more than 250 synthetic industrial chemicals in your body that were not present in the bodies of your grandparents when they were your age." I guess it's not accurate to say that the oil companies themselves make that much, but with all the many steps before it gets to the end-user that might be the case. I do sometimes regard the oil companies, the chemicals industry, the drugs corporations, and the fertilizer and pesticides industries as pretty much one phenomenon, it can be difficult to draw clear lines of distinction between them. Anyway, maybe we can do without the fossil-fuels and just keep the chemicals? That would be a more rational use of the oil reserves rather than just burning it all up. Maybe we could do quite well without a lot of the chemicals too. Regards Keith > >>>I was not aware > >>that it was so accepted that co-products are what is relatively more > >>profitable from a barrel of oil. > > > >This is one figure we had: "As I stated on many occasions, someone > >calculated that for every 100 gal oil the industry recovers $100 > >worth gasoline from half of the barrel and $27 000 in other chemicals > >from the other half." -- Dr. Laszlo Paszner of the Faculty of > >Forestry at UBC, who developed the Acid Catalyzed Organosolv > >Saccharification process (ACOS), in a message to the Bioenergy list > >at Crest. > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > > >>I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make just > >>enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this could be > >>worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) > >> > >> >Ok, a word about co-products. As has been correctly pointed out > >>here, the majority of profits from a barrel of oil come from the > >>co-products. The fuel itself is actually quite low value, > >>comparatively. The same principal will apply to the Biorefinery > >>envisioned. We will produce ethanol more as a public benefit than as > >>a profitable venture. The profits will be found in the co-products > >>and value adding done during processing. > >> > > >> >Lastly, I wanted to invite you to register and login to the all > >>new FaFCo portal, www.fuelandfiber.com - I have set up a whole set > >>of tools for you to use. Perhaps there is something useful there? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.ZSp6B/dlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
On a tractor I drove it said do not heat [use glowplugs] if you're going to use ether. desertstallion wrote: >I have always read in the manuals of the Diesels that I have owned that have >glow plugs NOT to use ether (Volvo and Ford 6.9 NA). But, I understand, for >example, that the Diesels in the Mercedes Unimogs, that don't have glow >plugs, allow the use of ether. In fact, there is a factory option to have an >automatic dispenser for cold weather starts. I think that the glow plugs may >be either damaged by the ether, or the glow plugs may cause early detonation >with resulting damage to the engine. Clearly the manuals state that use of >ether can lead to catastrophic engine failure and strongly advise against it >and further will not cover the damage under warrantee. > >In the case of your starter it wasn't a faster rev that broke it; rather I >bet you had a pre-ignition which tried to run your engine backwards. Since >the starter was engaged, the teeth broke. The GM Diesels also have glow >plugs and I understand that their manuals also state that ether is not to be >used. > >Derek > > > > -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Canada signs and ratifies Kyoto Protocol
The Kyoto Protocol is now law in Canada. This law will help us introduce renewable fuels such as ethanol and biodiesel, which will help us survive as a civilization. Kyoto will also help reduce greenhouse gases Toronto Star Article: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer? pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035775660015&call _pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Â…kologisch ohne Â…kosteuer
>--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >something of interest > > > > > > http://www.rerorust.de/ > > > > Quite a lot of scepticism about him. > > > > Do these look that good to you? > > > > Cocked or gummed parts? My engine got checked. > > http://www.rerorust.de/rapsoel/check2_uk.htm > > > > Aargh! His links jump... Hit the English flag on the home page, >then > > hit "Cocked or gummed parts? My engine got checked." and look at >the > > photographs. > > > > Keith > >Keith, >I tried to check out the photos, but ended up confused. The only >thing I saw that was discernable from the Photos is that he has been >very lax in changing his Lube Oil, and that he has severely injured >his right thumb in the past. >Motie LOL!! I think it's bizarre. I wouldn't have used those photographs as a recommendation. Maybe it's him who's confused. Comparable photographs, or with comparable intentions anyway, from biodiesel users who have their motors checked are clean clean clean. Why can't we get something like that with SVO? Maybe not this way though: "I poured 15 litres straight into the tank..." Hm. Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Wasembodiedenergy)
Hello Robert >The biofuels list includes a very diverse group of people with >wide ranging >expertise. I'm pleased that Keith allows us to discuss topics only >tangentially >related to the list theme--thanks! It's a real education being here! Isn't it just? Tangentially related, yes, but related just the same. Where would I draw the line? Diesel fuel and heating oil's the same, as we all know, there's a lot of interest in using biodiesel and SVO for heating, especially in the northern hemisphere at this time of year, and how can it be considered properly if we're not allowed to discuss the whole context of energy-efficient homes and buildings, and their environmental impact? I know a lot of people here are interested in that. Anyway, these are all ecological issues - of course it's possible to stick to the narrow, immediate meanings, and many cases where that's appropriate, but the only real rule of ecology (and life) is that everything is connected to everything else, so how can you draw a line? Anyway I hate drawing lines, I'd rather they drew themselves. Feel free, please. By the way, this is a useful resource - Charmaine R Taylor's Dirt Cheap Builder: http://store.yahoo.com/dirtcheapbuilderbooks/index.html So, might I suggest, is this: http://journeytoforever.org/at_house.html Houses that fit Regards Keith >robert luis rabello >"The Edge of Justice" >Adventure for Your Mind >http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil)
If these formerly waste materials are good for using as some transportation fuels (such as in tractors) I wonder if they couldn't also be used in generating electricity or heat. On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:12:43 -0500, you wrote: >Tim, > >No hemp farmer in Canada or Europe is expending $600 per acre in >order to get a $600 return. > >When you look at those who are cold pressing the seed for oil, >you find that there is an inordinate amount of sludge that gets >separated from the readily filterable oil. Cold pressing does not >give the luxury of high immediate yields (although it does offer >the luxury of "solvent free") and due to the nature of the food >grade oil business a great percentage of the oil is discarded as >sludge. Eventually the sludge separates even further, leaving >approximately 60% of what was discarded to be used for "less than >food grade" purposes. > >This is the oil that would be used for biodiesel, not the >intially pressed oil. > >At present, several of the oil producers in Canada are >stockpiling their sludge. This has resulted in large quantities >of hemp seed oil becoming available for fuel conversion. >Considering the fact that this was once considered to be a "waste >product," utilizing it as farm fuel is not an unattractive end >use. > >As well, the fines that settle out of the sludge are a superb >chicken feed - yet another free product of what was once >relegated to the category of "waste." > >Todd Swearingen > >- Original Message - >From: Tim Castleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:21 PM >Subject: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil) > > >> From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy? >> >> Why not? >> >> > I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could >make just >> > enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this >could be >> > worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably >not.) >> >> This is one of those impossible questions, the answer will >never satisfy because the fact is hemp cannabis HAS been >deliberately repressed, several million $ is spent each year on >eradication efforts on feral hemp, for example. DEA drug warriors >are emotionally and financially attached to their work, and so >perpetuate many lies and place many barriers. Perhaps the most >insidious of which are the divisions within the >cannabis/hemp/marijuana culture itself. >> >> This repression has prevented development of the crop per se, >thus leaving us with the familiar chicken and egg scenario. >Bottom line, when petroleum stays at $30 bbl, a plant-based >economy will emerge. >> >> Meanwhile, yes, a farmer could grow hemp, harvest the seed and >extract the oil for on farm use, but why would he with all the >other oil crops available that will produce much more oil than >hemp? In a practical sense, and most farmers are practical to a >fault, to spend $600 or so to grow $600 or so worth of fuel only >works with government subsidies. He would rather just buy it and >save himself all that work! >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> Biofuels at Journey to Forever >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> Biofuel at WebConX >> http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm >> List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: >> http://archive.nnytech.net/ >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >> > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >Biofuel at WebConX >http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm >List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil)
If these formerly waste materials are good for using as some transportation fuels (such as in tractors) I wonder if they couldn't also be used in generating electricity or heat. On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:12:43 -0500, you wrote: >Tim, > >No hemp farmer in Canada or Europe is expending $600 per acre in >order to get a $600 return. > >When you look at those who are cold pressing the seed for oil, >you find that there is an inordinate amount of sludge that gets >separated from the readily filterable oil. Cold pressing does not >give the luxury of high immediate yields (although it does offer >the luxury of "solvent free") and due to the nature of the food >grade oil business a great percentage of the oil is discarded as >sludge. Eventually the sludge separates even further, leaving >approximately 60% of what was discarded to be used for "less than >food grade" purposes. > >This is the oil that would be used for biodiesel, not the >intially pressed oil. > >At present, several of the oil producers in Canada are >stockpiling their sludge. This has resulted in large quantities >of hemp seed oil becoming available for fuel conversion. >Considering the fact that this was once considered to be a "waste >product," utilizing it as farm fuel is not an unattractive end >use. > >As well, the fines that settle out of the sludge are a superb >chicken feed - yet another free product of what was once >relegated to the category of "waste." > >Todd Swearingen > >- Original Message - >From: Tim Castleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:21 PM >Subject: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil) > > >> From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subject: Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy? >> >> Why not? >> >> > I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could >make just >> > enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this >could be >> > worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably >not.) >> >> This is one of those impossible questions, the answer will >never satisfy because the fact is hemp cannabis HAS been >deliberately repressed, several million $ is spent each year on >eradication efforts on feral hemp, for example. DEA drug warriors >are emotionally and financially attached to their work, and so >perpetuate many lies and place many barriers. Perhaps the most >insidious of which are the divisions within the >cannabis/hemp/marijuana culture itself. >> >> This repression has prevented development of the crop per se, >thus leaving us with the familiar chicken and egg scenario. >Bottom line, when petroleum stays at $30 bbl, a plant-based >economy will emerge. >> >> Meanwhile, yes, a farmer could grow hemp, harvest the seed and >extract the oil for on farm use, but why would he with all the >other oil crops available that will produce much more oil than >hemp? In a practical sense, and most farmers are practical to a >fault, to spend $600 or so to grow $600 or so worth of fuel only >works with government subsidies. He would rather just buy it and >save himself all that work! >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> Biofuels at Journey to Forever >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> Biofuel at WebConX >> http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm >> List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: >> http://archive.nnytech.net/ >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >> > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >Biofuel at WebConX >http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm >List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy?
I am happy to consider the idea that it is the other products in a barrel which really bring home a somewhat higher margin of money, but the figure that you cite ($27,000 per about 2.4 barrels of oil) sounds absurd and for the moment the only thing it really does is prevent me from lending any credibility to it. >>>I was not aware >>that it was so accepted that co-products are what is relatively more >>profitable from a barrel of oil. > >This is one figure we had: "As I stated on many occasions, someone >calculated that for every 100 gal oil the industry recovers $100 >worth gasoline from half of the barrel and $27 000 in other chemicals >from the other half." -- Dr. Laszlo Paszner of the Faculty of >Forestry at UBC, who developed the Acid Catalyzed Organosolv >Saccharification process (ACOS), in a message to the Bioenergy list >at Crest. > >Best > >Keith > > >>I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make just >>enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this could be >>worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) >> >> >Ok, a word about co-products. As has been correctly pointed out >>here, the majority of profits from a barrel of oil come from the >>co-products. The fuel itself is actually quite low value, >>comparatively. The same principal will apply to the Biorefinery >>envisioned. We will produce ethanol more as a public benefit than as >>a profitable venture. The profits will be found in the co-products >>and value adding done during processing. >> > >> >Lastly, I wanted to invite you to register and login to the all >>new FaFCo portal, www.fuelandfiber.com - I have set up a whole set >>of tools for you to use. Perhaps there is something useful there? > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >Biofuel at WebConX >http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm >List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy?
I am happy to consider the idea that it is the other products in a barrel which really bring home a somewhat higher margin of money, but the figure that you cite ($27,000 per about 2.4 barrels of oil) sounds absurd and for the moment the only thing it really does is prevent me from lending any credibility to it. >>>I was not aware >>that it was so accepted that co-products are what is relatively more >>profitable from a barrel of oil. > >This is one figure we had: "As I stated on many occasions, someone >calculated that for every 100 gal oil the industry recovers $100 >worth gasoline from half of the barrel and $27 000 in other chemicals >from the other half." -- Dr. Laszlo Paszner of the Faculty of >Forestry at UBC, who developed the Acid Catalyzed Organosolv >Saccharification process (ACOS), in a message to the Bioenergy list >at Crest. > >Best > >Keith > > >>I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make just >>enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this could be >>worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) >> >> >Ok, a word about co-products. As has been correctly pointed out >>here, the majority of profits from a barrel of oil come from the >>co-products. The fuel itself is actually quite low value, >>comparatively. The same principal will apply to the Biorefinery >>envisioned. We will produce ethanol more as a public benefit than as >>a profitable venture. The profits will be found in the co-products >>and value adding done during processing. >> > >> >Lastly, I wanted to invite you to register and login to the all >>new FaFCo portal, www.fuelandfiber.com - I have set up a whole set >>of tools for you to use. Perhaps there is something useful there? > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >Biofuel at WebConX >http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm >List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Actually, when I lived in Canada, we did ski in -40. It was great > because there were so few people on the hill. I loved it. BTW, - 40 is > both C & F, it is the point where they meet. > > I had a 1/4 ton truck that was diesel, we used to just leave it run when > it got that cold. > > Bright Blessings, > Kim Don't do anything strenous enough to make you gasp for breath, or break into a sweat. Frost-bitten lungs are worse than Pneumonia and damp clothing leads to hypothermia rather quickly. Drinks lots of fluids, and eat plenty of high-calorie foods. Use a 'Buddy system' if possible. Don't be out alone when it gets that cold. A simple rule of thumb is if you can't spit on the ground without it freezing before impact, it's cold enough to be careful. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Â…kologisch ohne Â…kosteuer
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >something of interest > > > > http://www.rerorust.de/ > > Quite a lot of scepticism about him. > > Do these look that good to you? > > Cocked or gummed parts? My engine got checked. > http://www.rerorust.de/rapsoel/check2_uk.htm > > Aargh! His links jump... Hit the English flag on the home page, then > hit "Cocked or gummed parts? My engine got checked." and look at the > photographs. > > Keith Keith, I tried to check out the photos, but ended up confused. The only thing I saw that was discernable from the Photos is that he has been very lax in changing his Lube Oil, and that he has severely injured his right thumb in the past. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
- Original Message - From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 13:53 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy) > > I am saying that humus material is bad for concrete before it is cured, > please look at my message. Concrete does not cure properly with humus > material, which is one of the first things you learn about concrete. When you say humus, I'm understanding you to be refering to it as : Humus is among the richest and darkest of soils. It is scientifically defined as that which is developed over time by the decomposition of organics (this meaning that it comes from the remains of living things i.e., deceased animal or vegetable life). Humus is generally the shade of dark chocolate and almost appears to have the texture of crumbled chocolate cake or of very dark, ground coffee when viewed from a distance. Is this correct? Organic material? I guess that depende on what the purpose of the final product is to be, I say this because I have seen several types of faux stone that was made with cement and peat moss that looked to be the real thing. Soil cement is another item that I have heard many good things about ( depending on the use like flooring or walkways) and it would be impossable to remove all humus from it. What about papercreat? Many uses of organic material with cement, that I can think of, even cob has been stabized with cement. > I > asked for documentation of investigations that it could be used in/on > concrete before it has cured. I can't give you the book name, I last read it 5-6 years ago, but, was a newer textbook ( at that time ), about masonary and concrete and it basicly said that rebar that was given a coating that restricted electrolitic action, lasted up to half again as long as rebar that was untreated, with the leangth of time increasing with the level of protection. Coatings like organic plastics and epoxies were tried. Other than that, I don't remember much about the book, except that I checked it out of the local library. > I see no reason why it should be bad after, > but to suggest treatment of reinforcement bars after the concrete cured is > a little bit difficult. True, but to treat them before the concrete is even poured, is not difficult at all. >To mix cement with biological material is normally > a no-no and I have seen many such mistakes in control inspections. > When the linseed oil cures (not dries), it is chemically changing, the molecules in it, crosslinks and it forms a simple polymer. Why a polymer would cause problems for concreat to cure is something that I have never heard of. This is why I am asking. > I thought my message below was clear on the point of before or after. > > Hakan > > At 12:13 PM 12/16/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >Could you please elaborate? You keep saying humus or humus partials is bad > >for concrete, but, that is all you say. Why would boiled linseed oil be bad > >for concrete after it has cured? > > > >Greg H. > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
Hi Hakan I'm confused by your saying "humus material". Do you mean organic material, or biological material? Humus is what you get in soil, or should if it's still alive, complicated stuff. Sorry, after what we've just been saying about English! :-) Linseed oil or flaxseed oil is a drying oil, why it's used in paints and varnishes (I'm sure you know this), and also why it's not a very good idea in your motor. It polymerizes, and becomes relatively inert and impervious. Don't you think treatment of reinforcement bars with linseed oil would be okay as long as the linseed oil was allowed to dry (set) first before pouring the concrete? It's a lot like a plastic coating. Well, it is a plastic coating. Best Keith >I am saying that humus material is bad for concrete before it is cured, >please look at my message. Concrete does not cure properly with humus >material, which is one of the first things you learn about concrete. I >asked for documentation of investigations that it could be used in/on >concrete before it has cured. I see no reason why it should be bad after, >but to suggest treatment of reinforcement bars after the concrete cured is >a little bit difficult. To mix cement with biological material is normally >a no-no and I have seen many such mistakes in control inspections. > >I thought my message below was clear on the point of before or after. > >Hakan > >At 12:13 PM 12/16/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >Could you please elaborate? You keep saying humus or humus partials is bad > >for concrete, but, that is all you say. Why would boiled linseed oil be bad > >for concrete after it has cured? > > > >Greg H. > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: > >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:04 > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was > >embodiedenergy) > > > > > > > > > > If you put linseed oil on a cured floor it is one thing. But it you put > > > humus particles in concrete before it is cured, I know that it can be a > > > disaster. > > > > > > Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil)
Tim, No hemp farmer in Canada or Europe is expending $600 per acre in order to get a $600 return. When you look at those who are cold pressing the seed for oil, you find that there is an inordinate amount of sludge that gets separated from the readily filterable oil. Cold pressing does not give the luxury of high immediate yields (although it does offer the luxury of "solvent free") and due to the nature of the food grade oil business a great percentage of the oil is discarded as sludge. Eventually the sludge separates even further, leaving approximately 60% of what was discarded to be used for "less than food grade" purposes. This is the oil that would be used for biodiesel, not the intially pressed oil. At present, several of the oil producers in Canada are stockpiling their sludge. This has resulted in large quantities of hemp seed oil becoming available for fuel conversion. Considering the fact that this was once considered to be a "waste product," utilizing it as farm fuel is not an unattractive end use. As well, the fines that settle out of the sludge are a superb chicken feed - yet another free product of what was once relegated to the category of "waste." Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Tim Castleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:21 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil) > From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy? > > Why not? > > > I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make just > > enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this could be > > worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) > > This is one of those impossible questions, the answer will never satisfy because the fact is hemp cannabis HAS been deliberately repressed, several million $ is spent each year on eradication efforts on feral hemp, for example. DEA drug warriors are emotionally and financially attached to their work, and so perpetuate many lies and place many barriers. Perhaps the most insidious of which are the divisions within the cannabis/hemp/marijuana culture itself. > > This repression has prevented development of the crop per se, thus leaving us with the familiar chicken and egg scenario. Bottom line, when petroleum stays at $30 bbl, a plant-based economy will emerge. > > Meanwhile, yes, a farmer could grow hemp, harvest the seed and extract the oil for on farm use, but why would he with all the other oil crops available that will produce much more oil than hemp? In a practical sense, and most farmers are practical to a fault, to spend $600 or so to grow $600 or so worth of fuel only works with government subsidies. He would rather just buy it and save himself all that work! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Biofuel at WebConX > http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy?
MM wrote: >Thanks Tim. Many good things, and I was looking for this part about >co-products, which I was glad to see you did get in. I was not aware >that it was so accepted that co-products are what is relatively more >profitable from a barrel of oil. This is one figure we had: "As I stated on many occasions, someone calculated that for every 100 gal oil the industry recovers $100 worth gasoline from half of the barrel and $27 000 in other chemicals from the other half." -- Dr. Laszlo Paszner of the Faculty of Forestry at UBC, who developed the Acid Catalyzed Organosolv Saccharification process (ACOS), in a message to the Bioenergy list at Crest. Best Keith >I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make just >enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this could be >worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) > > >Ok, a word about co-products. As has been correctly pointed out >here, the majority of profits from a barrel of oil come from the >co-products. The fuel itself is actually quite low value, >comparatively. The same principal will apply to the Biorefinery >envisioned. We will produce ethanol more as a public benefit than as >a profitable venture. The profits will be found in the co-products >and value adding done during processing. > > > >Lastly, I wanted to invite you to register and login to the all >new FaFCo portal, www.fuelandfiber.com - I have set up a whole set >of tools for you to use. Perhaps there is something useful there? Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy?
MM wrote: >Thanks Tim. Many good things, and I was looking for this part about >co-products, which I was glad to see you did get in. I was not aware >that it was so accepted that co-products are what is relatively more >profitable from a barrel of oil. This is one figure we had: "As I stated on many occasions, someone calculated that for every 100 gal oil the industry recovers $100 worth gasoline from half of the barrel and $27 000 in other chemicals from the other half." -- Dr. Laszlo Paszner of the Faculty of Forestry at UBC, who developed the Acid Catalyzed Organosolv Saccharification process (ACOS), in a message to the Bioenergy list at Crest. Best Keith >I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make just >enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this could be >worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) > > >Ok, a word about co-products. As has been correctly pointed out >here, the majority of profits from a barrel of oil come from the >co-products. The fuel itself is actually quite low value, >comparatively. The same principal will apply to the Biorefinery >envisioned. We will produce ethanol more as a public benefit than as >a profitable venture. The profits will be found in the co-products >and value adding done during processing. > > > >Lastly, I wanted to invite you to register and login to the all >new FaFCo portal, www.fuelandfiber.com - I have set up a whole set >of tools for you to use. Perhaps there is something useful there? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
I am saying that humus material is bad for concrete before it is cured, please look at my message. Concrete does not cure properly with humus material, which is one of the first things you learn about concrete. I asked for documentation of investigations that it could be used in/on concrete before it has cured. I see no reason why it should be bad after, but to suggest treatment of reinforcement bars after the concrete cured is a little bit difficult. To mix cement with biological material is normally a no-no and I have seen many such mistakes in control inspections. I thought my message below was clear on the point of before or after. Hakan At 12:13 PM 12/16/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Could you please elaborate? You keep saying humus or humus partials is bad >for concrete, but, that is all you say. Why would boiled linseed oil be bad >for concrete after it has cured? > >Greg H. > >- Original Message - >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:04 >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was >embodiedenergy) > > > > > > If you put linseed oil on a cured floor it is one thing. But it you put > > humus particles in concrete before it is cured, I know that it can be a > > disaster. > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.ZSp6B/dlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] hemp vs other other biofuel sources
Hello Myles There are good yield tables here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html Vegetable oil yields, characteristics They're low averages, you can do much better than that with a small plot. For other oil crops, try these: NewCrop SearchEngine at the Center for New Crops & Plant Products at Purdue University -- Search for "oil". Results: "The following pages containing 'oil' were found -- hits 1-20 of 200". Results are hyperlinked to detailed factsheets. http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/SearchEngine.html Plants For A Future -- Database Search -- See "Search by Use - Select any of the following uses. Or select none and use the plant criteria below." Select "Other Use" - oil. Results: "Other Use: Oil (460)". Results are hyperlinked to detailed factsheets. http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/D_search.html We've hardly begun to scratch the surface of the potential, either of what to grow or of how to grow it (them). The "experts" still think in terms of how much land will be needed to replace existing fossil-fuel use via industrialized monocropping, then they find it's "too much" and abandon the whole thing, hopeless. So much for topdown-think. Did they think of weeds, and where weeds grow? - among the very many other things they didn't think of James A. Duke's excellent "Handbook of Energy Crops" details 194 crops, also very far from exhaustive. Including Euphorbia lathyris, which is here: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Euphorbia_lathyris.html Euphorbia lathyris But yield isn't everything. Jatropha curcus is a high oil-yielding multi-purpose tree, at 1,590 kg/ha of oil, but it's been found it doesn't yield much in India. If it's something that grows locally like a weed, as you say Euphorbia lathyris does, then it will perform well, and, very important, the local farmers will be familiar with it, though they might need their attitude changed a bit. What local people know almost always fares better than something new brought in from outside, no matter how much it might yield. Best Keith >I don't know if this has been brought up already or not, but while hemp is >indeed a plant which provides fiber, oil and other uses, its oil content >relative to other biofuel crop alternatives, well, sucks. > >According to Tickell's From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank, a hemp crop can >yield oil at about 300kg/hectare. Compared to Rapeseed (nearly 1000) hemp >doesn't look too convincing as an oil crop unless both the oil and fiber >yields combined outproduce the alternatives. One potential energy plant not >investigated since the 1980's that I can tell is Euphorbia Lathyris (aka >Mole or Gopher Plant). According to Tickell and other sources, the Mole >plant produces more oil (approx. 1200kg/ha) mass/hectare than ANY OTHER >plant crop other than trees and bushes such as castor bean. The bean itself >is said to yield 50% oil content. It grows like crazy virtually anywhere. >Hemp is not as easy to grow and as the literature indicates, produces less >than a third the oil of the alternatives. > >Still, cannabis should be free. It's hypocrital prohibition and enforcement >over that of the freely grown common yard plant Papaver Somniferum (Opium >Poppy ---also yielding more kg oil/hectare than hemp) will sometime make a >hysterically funny movieoh, yeah, it already exists: Reefer Madness... > >-Myles Twete, Portland Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XfSp7B/XlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
LOL I been looking for one of those. I prefer body and interior in good shape and engine shot. I hate body work but dont mind pulling engines to rebuild them. Things like running out of oil, swallowed glowplugs etc.. Getting them like that is the only way I can afford them. LOL Yes folks that dont understand either should not use it.. Just make sure you have your batteries tested at least once a year. Replace them even if they barely pass. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: "harley3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:37 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > Bryan: > > A fully loaded Chevy Suburban Silverado. It was an all around bad mistake. > I do have a bad temper. It was an excellent tax write off. Again, > hopefully a new person to diesels won't do the same. > > Harley > -Original Message- > From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 11:11 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > > > Darn wish I would have been around.. if that was all that was wrong with > it > then it wouldn't be that hard to fix. I would have given a few pesos for > it.. Bonus points if it had been a chevy or GM truck.. > > Bryan Fullerton > White Knight Gifts > www.youcandobusiness.com > - Original Message - > From: "harley3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:54 PM > Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > > > > It was a very cold day, and the engine was cranking very slow. That's > when > > I remembered the story, how my father use to start an old diesel tractor > > with starting fluid. Heck if I remember how much fluid I used, but it > was > > to much. I let the glow plugs warm up, and tried to start the engine. > It > > sounded like a back fire. I tried the starting cycle again. But I got > a > > whine, as if the starter was not making contact. I got out and checked > > under the truck. I could see the starter was hanging down from the > engine. > > I decided at that time I had used to much starting fluid. I do > remember > > saying you dumb sh*t. When I went to install a new starter. I looked > into > > the hole where the starter goes into, and saw the gaping hole where the > > teeth were missing.I was very demonized. I ended up donating the > truck > > to a local charity that deals with autos. > > > > The jest of the story is, I do not want someone new to diesels to > duplicate > > my ignorance. One destroyed starter / starter ring is to much. > > > > Harley > > -Original Message- > > From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:14 PM > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > > > > > > I think you used too much.. besides in that engine the torque > converter > > doesn't have any teeth.. the flex plate does. The idea is to use just > > enough > > to add a little heat in the compression cycle. You dont want to put in > so > > much energy that you can blow the thing apart. I suspect you engine > may > > not > > have been cranking very fast and you had too much starting fluid. The > > result > > was the compression from that cylider fired before TDC causeing the > piston > > to reverse direction. You may have already had a broken bolt on your > > starter. its not uncommon. Used carefully starting fluid works just > fine > > but it is not a good substitute for poor cranking speed. > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "harley3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:51 AM > > Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > > > > > > > Never use "starting fluid" in a diesel engine. I tried starting > fluid > > once > > > in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out > onto > > the > > > ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 > teeth > > off > > my > > > torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. > > > > > > Harley > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:52 PM > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting > > > > > > > > > Well this is controversial but I have used it on occasion with > much > > > success. > > > I spray a 3 second burst of starting fluid on the air filter > element > > and > > > then crank it up.. if youcant get to that then no more then 3 > seconds > > in > >
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
Of Course the manuals say not to use ether along with other legal jargon and this is exactly why they say not to use it. Because they can't regulate HOW people use it. You think they want to have to do warranty work because someone else screwed up? If you dont understand how ether/startingfluid works you shouldn't be using it. Had his engine been cranking faster 1 of 2 things different would have happened: 1. More then likely his engine would have started without the use of the ether. Cranking speed is critical in a diesel because the air is compressed which creates heat. This Hot Dense air is suppose to fire the fuel but in a cold engine it can quickly dissipate the heat to the cylinder walls, head, and piston. You might not think so but this can happen incredibly fast. Go ahead and experiment with a stirling cycle engine and you will see what I mean. Its this property in fact that makes the stirling engine work. 2. Had it been cranking faster with a bit less starting fluid the rotating mass would have carried over and at least some of the energy would have propelled the engine in the right direction. I have seen diesels crank slow enough that basically the cylinder was losing most of its heat(therefore some of the pressure in the cylinder resisting the starter) before the piston came TDC. A gas engine can do this and still start but a diesel can't. Your chance of starting a slow cold cranking diesel is practically nil. back in those days I didn't have an RPM guage so I cant really give numbers but I would have to say as a rule of thumb, if you can hear the engine hesitate, even a little bit, on each cylinder then your in trouble. You can get by with crappy batteries in a gas car for some time if you dont have any engine problems but not so in a diesel. Again this is just drawn from my personal experiance of owning diesels and rebuilding and assisting others with their diesels. I love hopping up diesel engines to double their horsepower and what not. Diesels have even been used on the drag strip. Ever see 600 some horsepower from an old 6.2? Some crazy guy did it but I dont think you could call him pollution concious. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: "desertstallion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:28 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > I have always read in the manuals of the Diesels that I have owned that have > glow plugs NOT to use ether (Volvo and Ford 6.9 NA). But, I understand, for > example, that the Diesels in the Mercedes Unimogs, that don't have glow > plugs, allow the use of ether. In fact, there is a factory option to have an > automatic dispenser for cold weather starts. I think that the glow plugs may > be either damaged by the ether, or the glow plugs may cause early detonation > with resulting damage to the engine. Clearly the manuals state that use of > ether can lead to catastrophic engine failure and strongly advise against it > and further will not cover the damage under warrantee. > > In the case of your starter it wasn't a faster rev that broke it; rather I > bet you had a pre-ignition which tried to run your engine backwards. Since > the starter was engaged, the teeth broke. The GM Diesels also have glow > plugs and I understand that their manuals also state that ether is not to be > used. > > Derek > > > -Original Message- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
Could you please elaborate? You keep saying humus or humus partials is bad for concrete, but, that is all you say. Why would boiled linseed oil be bad for concrete after it has cured? Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:04 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy) > > If you put linseed oil on a cured floor it is one thing. But it you put > humus particles in concrete before it is cured, I know that it can be a > disaster. > > Hakan > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil)
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy? Why not? > I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make just > enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this could be > worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) This is one of those impossible questions, the answer will never satisfy because the fact is hemp cannabis HAS been deliberately repressed, several million $ is spent each year on eradication efforts on feral hemp, for example. DEA drug warriors are emotionally and financially attached to their work, and so perpetuate many lies and place many barriers. Perhaps the most insidious of which are the divisions within the cannabis/hemp/marijuana culture itself. This repression has prevented development of the crop per se, thus leaving us with the familiar chicken and egg scenario. Bottom line, when petroleum stays at $30 bbl, a plant-based economy will emerge. Meanwhile, yes, a farmer could grow hemp, harvest the seed and extract the oil for on farm use, but why would he with all the other oil crops available that will produce much more oil than hemp? In a practical sense, and most farmers are practical to a fault, to spend $600 or so to grow $600 or so worth of fuel only works with government subsidies. He would rather just buy it and save himself all that work! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] hemp vs other other biofuel sources
On Monday, December 16, 2002, at 09:54 AM, Myles Twete wrote: > One potential energy plant not investigated since the 1980's that I > can tell > is Euphorbia lathyris (aka Mole or Gopher Plant). According to > Tickell and > other sources, the Mole plant produces more oil (approx. 1200kg/ha) > than > ANY OTHER plant crop other than trees and bushes such as castor bean. > The bean itself is said to yield 50% oil content. It grows like crazy > virtually > anywhere. I'm real interested in gopher plant, too -- it's grows great in Tuolumne, and is (maybe a little) helpful with the horrible gopher problems up there. I have a pile of seed collected (it's very easy to harvest and thresh), but I haven't run it thru my rampress because the oil is quite toxic, and I don't want to contaminate the press. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] hemp vs other other biofuel sources
I don't know if this has been brought up already or not, but while hemp is indeed a plant which provides fiber, oil and other uses, its oil content relative to other biofuel crop alternatives, well, sucks. According to Tickell's From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank, a hemp crop can yield oil at about 300kg/hectare. Compared to Rapeseed (nearly 1000) hemp doesn't look too convincing as an oil crop unless both the oil and fiber yields combined outproduce the alternatives. One potential energy plant not investigated since the 1980's that I can tell is Euphorbia Lathyris (aka Mole or Gopher Plant). According to Tickell and other sources, the Mole plant produces more oil (approx. 1200kg/ha) mass/hectare than ANY OTHER plant crop other than trees and bushes such as castor bean. The bean itself is said to yield 50% oil content. It grows like crazy virtually anywhere. Hemp is not as easy to grow and as the literature indicates, produces less than a third the oil of the alternatives. Still, cannabis should be free. It's hypocrital prohibition and enforcement over that of the freely grown common yard plant Papaver Somniferum (Opium Poppy ---also yielding more kg oil/hectare than hemp) will sometime make a hysterically funny movieoh, yeah, it already exists: Reefer Madness... -Myles Twete, Portland Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
If you put linseed oil on a cured floor it is one thing. But it you put humus particles in concrete before it is cured, I know that it can be a disaster. Hakan At 09:19 AM 12/16/2002 -0700, you wrote: >You would have to coat the rebar, long enough in advance,that the oil would >have a chance to cure, and form a coating. This would only slow the break >down process. Much of the break down comes from electrolytic corrosion >caused by dissimilar metals being in proximity to each other with the >concrete acting as electrolyte ( don't forget that concrete is alkaline ) >with free water completing the connection, causing the rebar to corrode. >The linseed oil coating just acts as an insulator and like all insulators if >it is breached it does not work. > >Greg H. > >- Original Message - >From: "Grahams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 15:19 >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was >embodiedenergy) > > > > prevents the breakdown of reinforcing steel. > > > > So an interesting idea would be to coat your rebar with oil before pouring > > your concrete. Then also coat the cured concrete on top to reduce water > > infiltration. > > Caroline > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Wasembodiedenergy)
Grahams wrote: > I used such a machine for my house in town. It was very nice, but > I will explain the concepts of this house a bit better. First realize it is > located on a farm-(perhaps more correctly an eventual homestead) in VA. > Here we have copious amounts of red clay- being tracked in every > door. There is no carpeting - this due to the 1" layer of dust/dirt I > found under my carpet padding in my house in town, removing it after just > five years of use. We tend toward allergies I strongly suspect that house > full of dust mite breeding carpet was a major culprit. We went with hard flooring in our house for the same reason. If we'd had the money, we'd have put cork flooring in the children's rooms rather than carpet. I can tell you a horror story about the carpet in the last house we lived in. . . > However, we also > built a large house with room for more than one generation of family- like > the Walton's. ;) We currently house 7, from 3-83. I couldn't see running a > stream machine over all that floor (4500 sqft) - (200sqft is taken up by > insulation ) I found dumping and refilling the thing to be enough work when > I just used it on my small kitchen in town. Yes, I can understand that. I spend at least an hour cleaning the upstairs flooring every time I do the job, and because no dirt can hide in the carpet, I clean the floor at least twice per week. Cleaning the hard flooring may be more work in that sense, but I'm happier that our house is sanitary. Further, because the wood flooring is a natural, renewable product, it makes more sense from an environmental perspective than carpet. > > The Elder rooms are designed similar to hospital or nursing home > rooms. These have their drains located near the in room toilets- wonderful > in the event of a toilet breakdown/repair. I won't explain further, but if > you visit a nursing home, just notice the lack of carpeting and try to > figure out why. ;) My mother adminstrates convalescent hospitals in Southern California. I'm very familiar with the environment and the need for easy cleaning. > I usually just use water and a floor squeegee/ scrubber > thing, pushing the water towards the drain. We have dark grey colored > concrete and applied various finishes after it was dry-(once again I > apparently really did a bad job on my concrete research, trusting the > installer- grrr), but have found none that have worked well. Most are > peeling off. Perhaps I will try plain wax, I just thought it would be too > slippery. I've heard that boiled linseed oil or beeswax will seal concrete nicely, but I haven't tried it, and we have no exposed concrete in our house. > > > > We have a heat recovery ventilation system that exchanges air and > >controls indoor humidity. > > This was "on my list" however, it was not "required" to move in so of > course it hasn't been added yet. I had a system picked out, but my HVAC > friend couldn't see how it differed significantly from a "regular" heat > pump- except it wouldn't heat your house. After thinking about it I > wondered that myself- is it just a heat pump with an expensive name? Joe > from Building Science advocated them in his books. Our unit is a small one that runs continuously. The principle behind the thing is that it exchanges indoor air for outdoor air, but instead of simply bringing cold air in, the machine transfers a significant portion of the heat energy in the outgoing air (something like 85%) to the fresh, incoming air. While there is an energy penalty in keeping the machine running all the time, it's significantly less than the energy required to heat fresh air from outside--especially in the winter, which is modestly cold in my area. Further, the device controls humidity, preventing mold build up and damage to the building envelope. Installing this was something that earned me a lot of criticism from people who thought we should have used forced air (which was considerably cheaper), but now that we're in the house, I wouldn't want to live without it! For those of you with better solar insolation, I'm sure a system could be designed using passive means that wouldn't require any energy input. (Wasn't there one of these in Home Power magazine last year?) With the nearly continuous cloud cover we get up here during the fall, winter and spring, I couldn't figure out how to make a passive system work. > > Sky tubes were another ...to be added later, perk. I really need them in > the middle of the house. We looked at a product called "Solatube" for similar reasons. My eldest son's bedroom is almost entirely earth bermed in this house. He has a single window, facing east, that is shaded by our neighbor's house, and we worried that his bedroom would be too dark. The Solatube costs around $500 Cdn. We elected to install an extra large lighting fixture, fitted with a pair of 18 watt compact fluorescents, a
Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy)
You would have to coat the rebar, long enough in advance,that the oil would have a chance to cure, and form a coating. This would only slow the break down process. Much of the break down comes from electrolytic corrosion caused by dissimilar metals being in proximity to each other with the concrete acting as electrolyte ( don't forget that concrete is alkaline ) with free water completing the connection, causing the rebar to corrode. The linseed oil coating just acts as an insulator and like all insulators if it is breached it does not work. Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Grahams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 15:19 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Steel roofing plus other building links -(Was embodiedenergy) > prevents the breakdown of reinforcing steel. > > So an interesting idea would be to coat your rebar with oil before pouring > your concrete. Then also coat the cured concrete on top to reduce water > infiltration. > Caroline > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Diesel Sawmill
Based on personal experience, I would agree with the recommendation to use the diesel engine to power an electric generator and then do the work with electric tools. There is an efficiency loss, which is likely to be in the order of 10 to 20% (conversion from mechanical energy to electrical/chemical and back again). However, that assumes that the diesel engine is perfectly sized to the mechanical application. If not, the electric conversion may actually be more efficient, especially if there is a battery component involved. Suppose the diesel engine available is rated at 7500 watts (approx 10 hp), and the saw varies in power demand from 75 watts (idling - blade moving but not cutting) to 1500 watts (cutting at rated wood feed speed, blade somewhat dull). In this circumstance, the diesel engine will never be running efficiently - its internal friction losses will be greater than the useful work being done, and diesels like to run at fairly constant speeds and loads, where this work will vary from low load to virtually no load. The electric motor is more efficient over a varying range of speeds and loads than an internal combustion engine. If the diesel can be run to charge a battery as well as providing power to the electrical load, then it can be run at a load closer to its efficient point. Once the battery is fully charged, the diesel can be shut off, and the electric saw can be run from the battery. (If an AC motor is used, an inverter is also required.) It will increase the cost, but as mentioned previously, will increase the flexibility of what can be run from the power produced, e.g. (fluorescent) lighting for operation when it is dark outside, or other wood working/finishing tools. There is also a safety advantage - electric motors can typically be shut off more quickly than diesel engines in the event of a problem, or between cuts to save energy. It also makes it easier to locate the saw some distance from the engine, or even to operate several devices at the same time if that is desireable. Darryl McMahon (admittedly biased in favour of electrical devices) Derek wrote: > My personal opinion is that for most applications along these lines you > should get electric machinery and then run it from a biodiesel powered > generator. It is a lot more flexible. Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Last word on forests
Hi Hakan >Dear Keith, > >I really got you motoring and it is very interesting to read >your views. Thank you for expanding on the issue, I do not >find anything important that we disagree on. And thank you >for keeping a constructive and active attitude, this is maybe >the most important thing we can do. > >When I first glanced through what you write, I thought " what >did I say that deserves this rebuttal". I was very general and >did not really brought up any specifics. Then I read trough it >more carefully and found a more detailed and very interesting >expansion of my own line of thoughts. I'm glad you saw it that way, it wasn't a rebuttal, I'm sorry if it looked like one at first. >I envy your fluency in good writing and finding the importance >in an idea. Everything I write takes a lot of time for me. Maybe >I could do better in Swedish, but the possible exposure would >be minuscule compared with English. But I am trying It's much appreciated that you make the effort. >and I >wished that many more "foreigners" would do the same. I very much wish that. I guess machine translation will solve the problem for us all in the end, but it's sure taking its time! >I >meet so many knowledgeable "foreigners" that are too shy >to try to write in a non-native language. They have not >discovered that the people they really want to communicate >with, do look at what they say and not deficiencies in the >language. If I can help you persuade them of that I'll be very pleased. >Humanity will survive, that I am also sure about. Through the >history, cultures and superpowers have a tendency not to >do so. The resilience of the humans is fantastic. Yes! Humans, rats and cockroaches, very tough! LOL! >Maybe one of my largest frustrations when it comes to >corporate greed and irresponsible politicians, is that they >will not live long enough to suffer from the mess they create. >Crime does pay off in this case. I believe they pay. What bothers me more is that they seem to get away without having to clean up the mess. It's excellent when they do get called to account, like that piece of offal Warren Anderson of Union Carbide. It's great to see him being hounded. Found living at a luxury home at The Hamptons, New York. "His local golf club subscription costs $2700 a year, more than five times what Union Carbide's victims in Bhopal got for a lifetime of illness and suffering." http://www.bhopal.net/pressreleases/gp-anderson.html http://www.greenpeace.org/features/details?features_id=22086 http://www.bhopal.net/contamination.html http://www.bhopal.net/hunger-index.html http://www.bhopal.net/backwhy.html Best Keith >Hakan > >At 04:33 PM 12/16/2002 +0900, you wrote: > >Hi Hakan, Joel > > > > >Dear Joel, > > > > > >This information was provided earlier by Keith as an argument > > >on this issues. Since it is the round for last word, I like to > > >clarify my understanding of the discussion. > > > > > >Motie who is deeply involved with forest management in the area > > >where he lives, have some local and particular problems. This > > >has to do with how his particular forest works and how different > > >interest groups acts with regards to his forest. When I say his > > >forest, I mean the forest that he has interest in. Motie made it > > >clear from the outset of the discussion, that he was talking > > >about his forest and his opinion of what happened there. > > > > > >Discussing the issue from the outside, made me bringing up > > >several points about forest management that was within my > > >knowledge and experiences. During this exchange, I became > > >fully convinced that Motie knew very well what he talked about > > >and he was a responsible and caring representative for the > > >forest management interests in his forest. I did of course not > > >know his forest and my arguments and convictions had in this > > >case to be of general nature. > > > > > >Keith who is a knowledgeable man in this field, picked up on > > >the global aspect, but not without first recognizing Motie's > > >competence and that he was the best one to talk for his > > >forest. > > > > > >Said this, I like to add the following last words, > > > > > >Our nature is a sensitive environment that through millions > > >of years developed a balance between the species. When > > >some species started to dominate to a level that was not > > >sustainable, things happened on both short and long term > > >that corrected it. We now have a specie that are growing > > >out of proportion, we call them humans and on short term the > > >nature already started to try to apply corrections, long term > > >nature will succeed. > > > >We're several distinct species now Hakan, or varieties rather. There > >have been a number of reports recently on adverse effects of > >"primitive" societies on their environment. I'm not convinced that > >these changes indicate unsustainability. First, there haven't been > >any primitive societies for thousands of ye
Re: [biofuel] ford f600
>hey all. > >some friends of mine at a not for profit company just informed me >that had acquired a ford f600 truck. I looked for F600 in Tickell's >book and did not find it... > >any issues with this vehicle and biod? Is this a good vehicle to fit >wiht a dual tank and just run WVO - they have more time than money - >they could pick up? > >thanks. > >dan > >oh, by the way, my op ed was REJECTED by my local paper - I was not >an expert in the field. :-( Sorry to hear that Dan. Bad reason - content is what matters. Next step is to make friends with local reporters, much better chance of getting stuff published that way. >it was published by our local activist >organizatio, metro jusice. Good. Don't give up on the straight press though, it can be a more useful lever. Regards Keith >thanks again Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
Bryan: A fully loaded Chevy Suburban Silverado. It was an all around bad mistake. I do have a bad temper. It was an excellent tax write off. Again, hopefully a new person to diesels won't do the same. Harley -Original Message- From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 11:11 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! Darn wish I would have been around.. if that was all that was wrong with it then it wouldn't be that hard to fix. I would have given a few pesos for it.. Bonus points if it had been a chevy or GM truck.. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: "harley3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:54 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > It was a very cold day, and the engine was cranking very slow. That's when > I remembered the story, how my father use to start an old diesel tractor > with starting fluid. Heck if I remember how much fluid I used, but it was > to much. I let the glow plugs warm up, and tried to start the engine. It > sounded like a back fire. I tried the starting cycle again. But I got a > whine, as if the starter was not making contact. I got out and checked > under the truck. I could see the starter was hanging down from the engine. > I decided at that time I had used to much starting fluid. I do remember > saying you dumb sh*t. When I went to install a new starter. I looked into > the hole where the starter goes into, and saw the gaping hole where the > teeth were missing.I was very demonized. I ended up donating the truck > to a local charity that deals with autos. > > The jest of the story is, I do not want someone new to diesels to duplicate > my ignorance. One destroyed starter / starter ring is to much. > > Harley > -Original Message- > From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:14 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > > > I think you used too much.. besides in that engine the torque converter > doesn't have any teeth.. the flex plate does. The idea is to use just > enough > to add a little heat in the compression cycle. You dont want to put in so > much energy that you can blow the thing apart. I suspect you engine may > not > have been cranking very fast and you had too much starting fluid. The > result > was the compression from that cylider fired before TDC causeing the piston > to reverse direction. You may have already had a broken bolt on your > starter. its not uncommon. Used carefully starting fluid works just fine > but it is not a good substitute for poor cranking speed. > > > - Original Message - > From: "harley3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:51 AM > Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > > > > Never use "starting fluid" in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid > once > > in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto > the > > ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth > off > my > > torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. > > > > Harley > > -Original Message- > > From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:52 PM > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting > > > > > > Well this is controversial but I have used it on occasion with much > > success. > > I spray a 3 second burst of starting fluid on the air filter element > and > > then crank it up.. if youcant get to that then no more then 3 seconds > in > > the > > intake somewhere. air getting pulled past the starting fluid carries > the > > vapors into the cylinder where they combust quite easily. Starting > fluid > > is > > a hot fuel and must be used very cautiously. If you get carried away > and > > spray it all over youcould get in trouble esp if you have a poor > > electrical > > connection somewhere. I would use alot of caution with Gas engines and > > extreme caution with older gas engines that have points and condensor. > > Usually I recommend only using starting fluid on older diesels that > are > > kinda worn out. If you intend to use your diesel where the air is > really > > cold, below 15 degrees F, I would suggest that you double check your > > batteries. I think most diesels have two batteries to start. since > > cranking > > speed is very
Re: [biofuel] Last word on forests
Dear Keith, I really got you motoring and it is very interesting to read your views. Thank you for expanding on the issue, I do not find anything important that we disagree on. And thank you for keeping a constructive and active attitude, this is maybe the most important thing we can do. When I first glanced through what you write, I thought " what did I say that deserves this rebuttal". I was very general and did not really brought up any specifics. Then I read trough it more carefully and found a more detailed and very interesting expansion of my own line of thoughts. I envy your fluency in good writing and finding the importance in an idea. Everything I write takes a lot of time for me. Maybe I could do better in Swedish, but the possible exposure would be minuscule compared with English. But I am trying and I wished that many more "foreigners" would do the same. I meet so many knowledgeable "foreigners" that are too shy to try to write in a non-native language. They have not discovered that the people they really want to communicate with, do look at what they say and not deficiencies in the language. Humanity will survive, that I am also sure about. Through the history, cultures and superpowers have a tendency not to do so. The resilience of the humans is fantastic. Maybe one of my largest frustrations when it comes to corporate greed and irresponsible politicians, is that they will not live long enough to suffer from the mess they create. Crime does pay off in this case. Hakan At 04:33 PM 12/16/2002 +0900, you wrote: >Hi Hakan, Joel > > >Dear Joel, > > > >This information was provided earlier by Keith as an argument > >on this issues. Since it is the round for last word, I like to > >clarify my understanding of the discussion. > > > >Motie who is deeply involved with forest management in the area > >where he lives, have some local and particular problems. This > >has to do with how his particular forest works and how different > >interest groups acts with regards to his forest. When I say his > >forest, I mean the forest that he has interest in. Motie made it > >clear from the outset of the discussion, that he was talking > >about his forest and his opinion of what happened there. > > > >Discussing the issue from the outside, made me bringing up > >several points about forest management that was within my > >knowledge and experiences. During this exchange, I became > >fully convinced that Motie knew very well what he talked about > >and he was a responsible and caring representative for the > >forest management interests in his forest. I did of course not > >know his forest and my arguments and convictions had in this > >case to be of general nature. > > > >Keith who is a knowledgeable man in this field, picked up on > >the global aspect, but not without first recognizing Motie's > >competence and that he was the best one to talk for his > >forest. > > > >Said this, I like to add the following last words, > > > >Our nature is a sensitive environment that through millions > >of years developed a balance between the species. When > >some species started to dominate to a level that was not > >sustainable, things happened on both short and long term > >that corrected it. We now have a specie that are growing > >out of proportion, we call them humans and on short term the > >nature already started to try to apply corrections, long term > >nature will succeed. > >We're several distinct species now Hakan, or varieties rather. There >have been a number of reports recently on adverse effects of >"primitive" societies on their environment. I'm not convinced that >these changes indicate unsustainability. First, there haven't been >any primitive societies for thousands of years, though we might now >regard their technology and their level of "development" as primitive >compared with ours (and is it really? - depends on the criteria, and >the jury's still out on our criteria). The traditional societies have >the accumulated experience of hundreds of generations and are all >very sophisticated in their relations with their environments, not >primitive. > >Second, there certainly have been societies that failed to maintain a >balance with their environments. See for instance "Conquest of the >Land Through Seven Thousand Years" by W. C. Lowdermilk, 1939: >http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#lowdermilk > >Societies have failed to do it, and vanished, whole civilizations >have failed, tribes have failed. But humanity quite clearly hasn't >failed. These lessons are all there to be learnt, the failures and >the successes. > >The great majority of humans still live in comparative harmony with >their environments. So, who doesn't? First and foremost, glaringly, >industrialized man doesn't. Industrialized man wants and takes an >unsustainable share of resources, and, not unnaturally, that's also >an inequitable share. I haven't checked, but maybe there's about a >billion of them, though within that billio
[biofuel] ford f600
hey all. some friends of mine at a not for profit company just informed me that had acquired a ford f600 truck. I looked for F600 in Tickell's book and did not find it... any issues with this vehicle and biod? Is this a good vehicle to fit wiht a dual tank and just run WVO - they have more time than money - they could pick up? thanks. dan oh, by the way, my op ed was REJECTED by my local paper - I was not an expert in the field. it was published by our local activist organizatio, metro jusice. thanks again Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp Fuel Conspiracy?
>Why not? > >> I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make >just >> enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this >could be >> worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) I see, Tim gave a figure of $30 per gallon for Hempseed oil in the marketplace. Well then perhaps it might compete if made into a fuel, and be as valuable as a wholesale fuel for a farmer as on the market. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
I have always read in the manuals of the Diesels that I have owned that have glow plugs NOT to use ether (Volvo and Ford 6.9 NA). But, I understand, for example, that the Diesels in the Mercedes Unimogs, that don't have glow plugs, allow the use of ether. In fact, there is a factory option to have an automatic dispenser for cold weather starts. I think that the glow plugs may be either damaged by the ether, or the glow plugs may cause early detonation with resulting damage to the engine. Clearly the manuals state that use of ether can lead to catastrophic engine failure and strongly advise against it and further will not cover the damage under warrantee. In the case of your starter it wasn't a faster rev that broke it; rather I bet you had a pre-ignition which tried to run your engine backwards. Since the starter was engaged, the teeth broke. The GM Diesels also have glow plugs and I understand that their manuals also state that ether is not to be used. Derek -Original Message- From: martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 21:11 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! You used too much. I worked on a farm and we had to use ether all the time to get things running and I never broke anything. One time I sprayed too much in an engine and it revved really [way too] fast, but it didn't break anything. But these were large 500 ci IH in milk trucks, and smaller straight 6 tractors. So I guess if you don't need it, don't use it of course. harley3 wrote: >Never use "starting fluid" in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid once >in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto the >ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth off my >torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. > >Harley > > -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp Fuel Conspiracy?
Right sorry, I meant what I said in the first place. This up-to-$30 per gallon figure would mean, wouldn't it, that the farmer would almost have to sell it if he could get that kind of money for it because it's about 15-25 times more expensive (per BTU or per gallon) than gasoline or regular diesel. I am of course momentarily setting aside other factors such as a personal commitment to avoid using petroleum or other issues. But on a simple dollar basis, it looks like Hemp Oil might be very valuable in the market place as compared to using it at home. This is just a first glance though. Other factors could and would enter in, such as we don't know how much it would go for if there were a vibrant hemp trade rather than the present black-market. (Never mind that black or grey markets should not exist in the America of the Free-marketeers, and that they appear to exist in Hemp products but are not protested or discussed by the *supposed* free market advocates (Conservatives, et. al.) I've voted Libertarian a few times and it was largely because they were the only party which consistently had candidates who wanted to talk about this issue and end the War On Drugs and the attendant war on Free Trade within U.S. borders. I've *never* heard a *single* prominent Republican or Democrat suggest that the War On Drugs is a violation of Free Trade principles, and is used as a pretext for the violation of Property Rights of Americans, and I'm hard pressed to remember any of them who have even wanted to question the wisdom of the entire Drug War. The only prominent Conservative I can think of who came out questioning it did so on the basis of *cost* I think. I guess he just couldn't bring himself to question the wisdom of the American Government legislating morality and making Property Rights a matter of expediency. MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid!
Darn wish I would have been around.. if that was all that was wrong with it then it wouldn't be that hard to fix. I would have given a few pesos for it.. Bonus points if it had been a chevy or GM truck.. Bryan Fullerton White Knight Gifts www.youcandobusiness.com - Original Message - From: "harley3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:54 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > It was a very cold day, and the engine was cranking very slow. That's when > I remembered the story, how my father use to start an old diesel tractor > with starting fluid. Heck if I remember how much fluid I used, but it was > to much. I let the glow plugs warm up, and tried to start the engine. It > sounded like a back fire. I tried the starting cycle again. But I got a > whine, as if the starter was not making contact. I got out and checked > under the truck. I could see the starter was hanging down from the engine. > I decided at that time I had used to much starting fluid. I do remember > saying you dumb sh*t. When I went to install a new starter. I looked into > the hole where the starter goes into, and saw the gaping hole where the > teeth were missing.I was very demonized. I ended up donating the truck > to a local charity that deals with autos. > > The jest of the story is, I do not want someone new to diesels to duplicate > my ignorance. One destroyed starter / starter ring is to much. > > Harley > -Original Message- > From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:14 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > > > I think you used too much.. besides in that engine the torque converter > doesn't have any teeth.. the flex plate does. The idea is to use just > enough > to add a little heat in the compression cycle. You dont want to put in so > much energy that you can blow the thing apart. I suspect you engine may > not > have been cranking very fast and you had too much starting fluid. The > result > was the compression from that cylider fired before TDC causeing the piston > to reverse direction. You may have already had a broken bolt on your > starter. its not uncommon. Used carefully starting fluid works just fine > but it is not a good substitute for poor cranking speed. > > > - Original Message - > From: "harley3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:51 AM > Subject: RE: [biofuel] cold weather starting - No starting fluid! > > > > Never use "starting fluid" in a diesel engine. I tried starting fluid > once > > in my 6.5 diesel G.M. Suburban.The engine spit the starter out onto > the > > ground.My foolish mistake broke the starter, and torn out 5 teeth > off > my > > torque converter. A very expensive mistake, never again. > > > > Harley > > -Original Message- > > From: Bryan Fullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:52 PM > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] cold weather starting > > > > > > Well this is controversial but I have used it on occasion with much > > success. > > I spray a 3 second burst of starting fluid on the air filter element > and > > then crank it up.. if youcant get to that then no more then 3 seconds > in > > the > > intake somewhere. air getting pulled past the starting fluid carries > the > > vapors into the cylinder where they combust quite easily. Starting > fluid > > is > > a hot fuel and must be used very cautiously. If you get carried away > and > > spray it all over youcould get in trouble esp if you have a poor > > electrical > > connection somewhere. I would use alot of caution with Gas engines and > > extreme caution with older gas engines that have points and condensor. > > Usually I recommend only using starting fluid on older diesels that > are > > kinda worn out. If you intend to use your diesel where the air is > really > > cold, below 15 degrees F, I would suggest that you double check your > > batteries. I think most diesels have two batteries to start. since > > cranking > > speed is very(did I mention VERY) VERY important in its ability to > start > > when cold I recommend adding a 3rd battery. It cant hurt and it does > help. > > I > > have 3 starting batteries in my 6.5(used tobe 6.2) '83 chevy Van. I > also > > have 3 or 4 accessory batteries that hook into the circuit soon as I > start > > cranking. before I went to low compression pistons I had no trouble > > starting > > this without even useing the glowplugs till it got down to about 28 > > degrees > > F. If youcant go wtih three batteries make sure the two youdo have are > the > > biggest and the best and are preferably less then 3 year
Re: [biofuel] Last word on forests
Hi Hakan, Joel >Dear Joel, > >This information was provided earlier by Keith as an argument >on this issues. Since it is the round for last word, I like to >clarify my understanding of the discussion. > >Motie who is deeply involved with forest management in the area >where he lives, have some local and particular problems. This >has to do with how his particular forest works and how different >interest groups acts with regards to his forest. When I say his >forest, I mean the forest that he has interest in. Motie made it >clear from the outset of the discussion, that he was talking >about his forest and his opinion of what happened there. > >Discussing the issue from the outside, made me bringing up >several points about forest management that was within my >knowledge and experiences. During this exchange, I became >fully convinced that Motie knew very well what he talked about >and he was a responsible and caring representative for the >forest management interests in his forest. I did of course not >know his forest and my arguments and convictions had in this >case to be of general nature. > >Keith who is a knowledgeable man in this field, picked up on >the global aspect, but not without first recognizing Motie's >competence and that he was the best one to talk for his >forest. > >Said this, I like to add the following last words, > >Our nature is a sensitive environment that through millions >of years developed a balance between the species. When >some species started to dominate to a level that was not >sustainable, things happened on both short and long term >that corrected it. We now have a specie that are growing >out of proportion, we call them humans and on short term the >nature already started to try to apply corrections, long term >nature will succeed. We're several distinct species now Hakan, or varieties rather. There have been a number of reports recently on adverse effects of "primitive" societies on their environment. I'm not convinced that these changes indicate unsustainability. First, there haven't been any primitive societies for thousands of years, though we might now regard their technology and their level of "development" as primitive compared with ours (and is it really? - depends on the criteria, and the jury's still out on our criteria). The traditional societies have the accumulated experience of hundreds of generations and are all very sophisticated in their relations with their environments, not primitive. Second, there certainly have been societies that failed to maintain a balance with their environments. See for instance "Conquest of the Land Through Seven Thousand Years" by W. C. Lowdermilk, 1939: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#lowdermilk Societies have failed to do it, and vanished, whole civilizations have failed, tribes have failed. But humanity quite clearly hasn't failed. These lessons are all there to be learnt, the failures and the successes. The great majority of humans still live in comparative harmony with their environments. So, who doesn't? First and foremost, glaringly, industrialized man doesn't. Industrialized man wants and takes an unsustainable share of resources, and, not unnaturally, that's also an inequitable share. I haven't checked, but maybe there's about a billion of them, though within that billion are many whose lives are not particularly unsustainable, nor particularly greedy. Then, at the other end of the scale, are the victims of the inequity, whose lives are unsustainable because they are too poor and hungry to survive, though they're too powerless to have that much of an adverse effect on the environment - certainly not when compared with the industrialized billion. Again, there are about a billion of them, or rather more. That leaves more than 4 billion. A lot of them live in cities which are not very sustainable, but again, a lot of those don't live particularly unsustainable lives. So we're left with a majority that's not doing too badly, and neither is the environment because of them. Cities - city man is more or less a different species. Is he though? It depends on the city. London, just to feed itself - or be fed rather, like a helpless infant - needs an area bigger than Britain, and the food isn't the half of it. But many 3rd World cities more or less feed themselves, via city farms. It's estimated that London could also do that. I'd say it's going to have to, along with all the other big-baby cities. What do you find there? What I find is waste waste waste, needless, wasteful, murderous waste. Sloppy, lazy, stupid, and, indeed, primitive. What kind of "humans" do this? Is it a type of human we're talking about at all, or just a human institution, or institutions? There've been big cities for a very long time that weren't particularly unsustainable. What's changed? I'd say the major factor is corporate interest - out of control corporations, that usually know perfectly
Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] skin on biodiesel > Hi Paul, Michael > > How do you maintain the heat during the processing hour, Paul? Keith as this is trully a bucket method of temporary production I don't maintain the 55 deg. The plastic bucket loses heat slowly. > You're using an aqueous solution of catalyst to make methoxide? Yes > Wouldn't draining off the glycerine as soon as possible also drain > off some excess methanol? > By "draining off as soon as possible" I mean after the final settling after last stirring, reaction should have gone as far as it can go by then without further heat and stirring. Methanol excess to reaction will have dispersed itself in both BD and glycerine. If there is to be no further reaction, the more excess methanol that comes off in the glycerine the better. > And doesn't severe emulsification during washing indicate high levels > of unconverted materials? That seems to be the general concensus, would say that the higher levels of alkali ensure better reaction, this of course could be specific to my production methods and trials, a more complete reaction process may produce the same results with lower levels of alkali. >SG and viscosity testing won't necessarily give you an indication of that. No, the production of lower SG and viscosity was quoted as an observation of what also happens with higher than titration indicated alkali levels. Regards, Paul Gobert Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp Fuel Conspiracy?
Right sorry, I meant what I said in the first place. This up-to-$30 per gallon figure would mean, wouldn't it, that the farmer would almost have to sell it if he could get that kind of money for it because it's about 15-25 times more expensive (per BTU or per gallon) than gasoline or regular diesel. I am of course momentarily setting aside other factors such as a personal commitment to avoid using petroleum or other issues. But on a simple dollar basis, it looks like Hemp Oil might be very valuable in the market place as compared to using it at home. This is just a first glance though. Other factors could and would enter in, such as we don't know how much it would go for if there were a vibrant hemp trade rather than the present black-market. (Never mind that black or grey markets should not exist in the America of the Free-marketeers, and that they appear to exist in Hemp products but are not protested or discussed by the *supposed* free market advocates (Conservatives, et. al.) I've voted Libertarian a few times and it was largely because they were the only party which consistently had candidates who wanted to talk about this issue and end the War On Drugs and the attendant war on Free Trade within U.S. borders. I've *never* heard a *single* prominent Republican or Democrat suggest that the War On Drugs is a violation of Free Trade principles, and is used as a pretext for the violation of Property Rights of Americans, and I'm hard pressed to remember any of them who have even wanted to question the wisdom of the entire Drug War. The only prominent Conservative I can think of who came out questioning it did so on the basis of *cost* I think. I guess he just couldn't bring himself to question the wisdom of the American Government legislating morality and making Property Rights a matter of expediency. MM Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp Fuel Conspiracy?
>Why not? > >> I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make >just >> enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this >could be >> worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) I see, Tim gave a figure of $30 per gallon for Hempseed oil in the marketplace. Well then perhaps it might compete if made into a fuel, and be as valuable as a wholesale fuel for a farmer as on the market. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Raw Palm Oil transesterification - issues
>Is anyone able to post an overview of the issues involved in making >biodiesel from raw palm oil please ?? Or provide some URL's. > >John Smith It's been pretty well covered here in the last few months, especially by Michael Allen. Do an archive search for "Allen" and check the thread called "High FFA oils - another way" and associated threads: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuels-biz Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Raw Palm Oil transesterification - issues
Is anyone able to post an overview of the issues involved in making biodiesel from raw palm oil please ?? Or provide some URL's. John Smith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
