Re: [OSM-talk] Tag:man_made=embankment

[Janko Mihelić]

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 16:12 <80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru> wrote:

> yes the flat, but at the top is a golf coarse and or a sports field and
> there are several flats on the way up.
>
> but in the case of a hole in the ground, storm water dry pound ???
>

I didn't quite understand the first sentence. Could you show a photo of the
place?

As for a hole in the ground, it would look like this:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/45.49430/15.55295

A circle with v's pointing inside.

>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tag:man_made=embankment

[Janko Mihelić]

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 23:47 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk 
wrote:

> OK !
>
> but where do i draw the line and which way do the v’s point ?
>
>

The line is drawn next to the road, on the top of the embankment. The v's
point down.

The thing I don't know, is if I draw the detailed embankment with it's own
way, do I add embankment=yes to the road? In my opinion, it should be on
the road as well, because it's an attribute of the road.

>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Name:* tags in the local language

[Janko Mihelić]

sub, 5. svi 2018. u 00:18 Yuri Astrakhan  napisao
je:

>
> Tag description:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:default_language
>

I like it overall. I'm not sure about this one:
*Do not set it on any smaller sub-regions unless their default language is
different.*

I agree that is cleaner, but what if a data consumer only downloads one US
state, how will it know the default language? Maybe there are some other
ways I'm not aware of, like filling in the gaps in data before publishing
derived maps.

If this is indeed a problem for data consumers, I would set the tag on all
subregions up until a sensible level. We can see the smallest size of a
region some applications offer for download.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Name:* tags in the local language

[Janko Mihelić]

pon, 30. tra 2018. u 08:28 Yuri Astrakhan  napisao
je:

>
> "official_language" is not a good tag name because it does not match the
> meaning, e.g. the official languages of Canada are both en & fr, but
> "name"
> tag is always in English except for Quebec, where it is in French.
>

 I agree that "official_language" has a much too restrictive meaning. It
will bury us in bureaucracy of "what is actually official".
"default_language" is a bit vague, but maybe a better fit to solve this
problem.

So just look at a region, see in what language >90% of the labels are, and
add default_language=*. It's not going to be 100% accurate, but infinitely
better then nothing. Than try to get closer to 100% by adding
default_language to subregions, and in the end, individual objects.

I like that approach.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Name:* tags in the local language

[Janko Mihelić]

sri, 25. tra 2018. u 08:51 Darafei "Komяpa" Praliaskouski 
napisao je:

> Hi,
>
> maps.me took approach similar to Nominatim's: each map region has
> "default language" in metadata, and in case the
> name: is needed but is missing, just name tag is
> taken.
>

I think this is the best solution with the least amount of work for
mappers. But we put default languages in regions instead of an external
database, as someone before me already mentioned.

Tag the default language on the whole country (official_language=hr). If a
region of a country has two official languages and the labels are, for
example, Rovinj/Rovigno, then put a official_language=hr/it. And on the
safe side, tag all the other subregions with official_language=hr, if the
data renderer chooses to download only one region.

After that, no other changes are needed.

Janko Mihelić
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Re: [OSM-talk] 3D models in OSM?! 3D Model Repository has just launched!

[Janko Mihelić]

This is great news!

My question is about referencing these models in the OSM database. There
are several reasons for referencing them, one is if you render the Eiffel
tower, you don't have to render the Eiffel tower way underneath. So if you
see the tag 3dmr=4, you ignore the way and just render the 3d model. Also,
the 3d model can show the metadata taken from the way when clicked.

I'll be making models, thanks for this!

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] How to show school icons ?

[Janko Mihelić]

pet, 24. stu 2017. u 09:01 David SAUVAGE 
napisao je:

>
> (1)  http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-20.26576/57.47946


It's a bit off topic, but the example shows the same school mapped twice.
As if there are two schools in the same place, one mapped as an area(1),
one as a node(2). I suspect this is the same school, so one of them should
be deleted (preferably the node).

(1) http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/542526629
(2) http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5245266481

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Re: [OSM-talk] Topology rules

[Janko Mihelić]

I like the idea of formalizing OSM topology!

An example: power lines should share nodes with nothing except power
towers, portals and buildings (substation buildings).

A problem i find is with landuse=forest. Formally, those are zones that are
used for growing trees. But practically in OSM, that tag is used for any
land that is covered with trees. So formally, landuse=forest shouldn't
overlap with other zones, but practically, until a new tag
(landcover=trees) is rendered, this rule isn't going to be followed.

Janko

sri, 25. lis 2017. u 18:41 Martin Koppenhoefer 
napisao je:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 25. Oct 2017, at 17:36, Gaurav Thapa  wrote:
> >
> > In Nepal we have been trying to make sure that each constructed building
> has its own footprint and is not connected to a neighbouring structure via
> a shared wall. We do this as in reality this is the case as each building
> structure though built next to each other has its own footprint
> (independent foundation).
>
>
> yes, you can find both situations: a single dividing wall used by both
> neighboring buildings (in Europe this occurs mostly with medieval
> buildings), or each building has its own walls (and foundations), but
> without a significant space between them (e.g. 2 cm of insulating material).
>
> I would treat both situations the same and use shared nodes, but maybe
> wouldn’t object if someone purposefully mapped the latter as 2
> almost-touching buildings, although the osm building ways usually describe
> the footprint of the completed building (i.e. with facades, cladding etc.)
> and not the raw load bearing structure.
>
> cheers,
> Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing wiki* -> brand:wiki*

[Janko Mihelić]

pon, 2. lis 2017. u 14:49 Ilya Zverev  napisao je:

> Exactly. OSM uses the reversed notation:
>
> ref:velobike is a ref for velobike, not velobike for ref.
> source:geometry is a source for geometry, not geometry for source.
>
> Wikipedia for brand should also be wikipedia:brand. This way all wikipedia
> links are grouped.
>
>
Your examples are the minority here. Most often before the colon is the
subject, and after the colon is its attribute. Just go to this link to see
most uses of the colon:

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=%3A

addr:housenumber=3, house number is an attribute (or a part) of the whole
address
source:date=2017-07-07, date is an attribute of the source tag. It is not
the source of the date provided.
building:levels=4, number of levels is an attribute of the building
social_facility:for=seniors, who is the social facility for is an attribute
of the social facility
church:type=parish, type of the church is an attribute of the church

On the entire first page there are only two tags that use colons as you
said; ref*:*bag on place #10 and ref*:*ruian*:*building on place #34.

That's why, when I created the original Wikidata proposal, I suggested
brand:wikidata. Because Wikidata ID is an attribute of the brand.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Name challenge - what to call the new OSM+Wikidata service?

[Janko Mihelić]

pon, 18. ruj 2017. u 18:55 Oleksiy Muzalyev 
napisao je:

> It is not bad. But it is centered on two data bases - the Wikidata and the
> OSM. What if in the future there will be more open data sources readily
> available?
>

 Wikidata already gives you a way to connect its data to any other
database. You already have IMDB id for movies, MusicBrainz artist ID for
music, and so on. Actually, there are 1994 databases connected to Wikidata
right now, growing as we speak. So, if you really need data from these
other databases, WOQ can be your starting connector.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Name challenge - what to call the new OSM+Wikidata service?

[Janko Mihelić]

I like WOQ. Or maybe WOQL to continue with the SQL, SparQL, MySQL and so
on. Wok imagery seems nice too.

Janko

pon, 18. ruj 2017. u 09:00 Oleksiy Muzalyev 
napisao je:

> Wikipedia is not only about data directly related to the map, it is also
> about mathematics, music, astronomy, etc.  But these disciplines
> certainly have a relation to a map via places of birth, study, etc.
> So what if to continue the traditions of:
> MySQL
> PostgresSQL
> SparQL
> Transact-SQL
> etc.
>
> Those who worked with a SQL Structured Query Language know what a
> powerful tool it is. The Wikipedia (Wikidata) describes the universe as
> we on Earth know it. So my suggestion:
>
> UniverSQL
> or a short final variant:
> U-SQL
>
> Univers is the French variant of the english word Universe (lat.
> Universum).
> Best regards,
> Oleksiy
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] new Wikidata+OSM data in one RDF database

[Janko Mihelić]

Wow, I think this is a great milestone. Thanks!

Now if only we can get a mixture of Wikidata's SPARQL and Overpass QL. A
kind of a hybrid language between the two? Because Wikidata will probably
never have the Overpass "in" or "around", which narrows the data down to a
single country or county, or to a radius around something. I find that very
useful.

What if you connected to the Overpass API, ran the Overpass query, and then
filtered the Wikidata data by the results of Overpass? Does that even make
sense? For example: Overpass gives me all elements with a wikidata tag in a
county, and then SPARQL can filter down the data to find all humans within
that data. I think that's possible.

Anyway, thanks for your service (although I think it's down right now).

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Applying different restrictions in different directions on a road

[Janko Mihelić]

If buses are oneway in the other direction then you need

oneway:PSV=-1

I didn't understand if busses were two-way or oneway in the reverse.

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016, 13:20 Volker Schmidt,  wrote:

> "
> oneway=yes
> oneway:bicycle=no
> oneway:PSV=no
> "
> should do the trick
>
> Volker
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Re: [OSM-talk] Artwork problems

[Janko Mihelić]

čet, 25. kol 2016. u 15:30 Daniel Koć  napisao je:

>
> I've also noticed that the line between artworks and memorials is
> blurred, especially with statues
>

In my opinion, we can use both tags. If something is a sculpture, add
tourism=artwork+artwork_type=sculpture. If it is a sculpture whose main
purpose is to remind us of a person or an event, add historic=memorial.

About the icon, I think we should add a new key, something like
sculpture_shape. It could have countless values, and only the most frequent
would have their unique icon. Values would be: human, child, human_sitting,
human_standing, human_on_horse, bust, horse, dog, abstract. Those account
for about 95% of sculptures. Others get the default icon. Having an
approximate shape of a sculpture on a map helps a lot with orientation in
space.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] New Google Maps style - interesting cartographic innovation

[Janko Mihelić]

I'm guessing Google is not only using POIs, but several other sources, like
geo Tweets, got tagged photos put up on Google+, and so on. I think they
are trying to make it easy for tourists to find the "in" spots where
something is happening. If you're trying to find a nice restaurant, night
club, pub or something like that, zoom in to the yellow area.

Janko

pon, 8. kol 2016. u 12:39 Oleksiy Muzalyev 
napisao je:

> Using colors like this is an excellent idea, however we shall not rely
> on colors alone as several percent of people cannot distinguish colors
> due to color blindness [1]. Besides, color blindness may develop with an
> advanced age, so no one is color-safe.
>
> We do not hear often about color blindness as people tend not to speak
> about it. But in fact maybe up to ten percent cannot see differences
> between certain colors at all.
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness
>
> brgds
> O.M.
>
> On 07.08.2016 1:43, Michał Brzozowski wrote:
> > There has been an update to Google Maps styling [1] and I have to say,
> > they left me impressed.
> > The overall look is cleaner, which is very welcome after a series of
> > disappointing changes, but the thing I consider very innovative is how
> > buildings (and on lower zooms - areas) with lots of "activities" (i.e.
> > POIs) are highlighted in beige.
> >
> > Now, traditional topo maps use building type attribute for this, eg.
> > Polish ones use dark brown for public/retail buildings, orange for
> > residential, violet for industrial and gray for everything else.
> > Our (and I presume Google's no better) building type tagging is pretty
> > sparse, so this is a no-go.
> >
> > I wonder whether somebody could cook up a proof of concept of this for
> > OSM styling to see how it would work out. One may play with assigning
> > different weights to POIs according to their type or perceived
> > importance via Wiki{pedia|data} tags.
> >
> > Michał
> >
> > [1]
> https://maps.googleblog.com/2016/07/discover-action-around-you-with-updated.html
> >
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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

[Janko Mihelić]

So they are using the english version? What good does that do to the local
people? It would be easier to learn the GPS coordinates.

Janko

uto, 12. srp 2016. u 09:47 Steve Doerr  napisao je:

> On 12/07/2016 00:23, Dave F wrote:
>
> > This system [...] doesn't work in the real world.
>
> It's apparently used in Mongolia as of this month. So the proof of the
> pudding . . .
>
> --
> Steve
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] 3D somehow not compatible with our map and editing concepts / capabilities?

[Janko Mihelić]

I'm glad this topic is being discussed. Firstly, we have two incompatible
tagging schemes: 3D buildings and indoor tagging. Try to imagine a building
having these two sets of shapes and tags. It can't be done without entirely
new tools. Those tools would have nothing to do with maps.

I think the solution, at least for complicated buildings, is a new
database. Something like 3D Warehouse by Google[1]. There you could model
those buildings in a dedicated opensource tool, add textures to 3D models,
use photos for textures, and a lot of things you can't do in OSM. A
different database could have plans of buildings, and you could  draw
corridors, tables, doors and windows in the dedicated application. Then
link to those objects in OSM.

If Wikipedia has sister projects like Wikiquotes, Wikibooks, Wikivoyage,
why wouldn't we have something like this? Why do we have to cram everything
into OSM?

[1] - https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/

Janko

sub, 18. lip 2016. u 23:06 Martin Koppenhoefer 
napisao je:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > Il giorno 18 giu 2016, alle ore 12:36, Marco Boeringa <
> ma...@boeringa.demon.nl> ha scritto:
> >
> > I have now added a type=building relation to group the Pantheon's Simple
> 3D features in a logical way ... I hope you agree that navigating the
> buildings individual parts, and finding the actual feature that carries the
> buildings tags (which should always be the closed way or multipolygon with
> the outline role), is now fare easier.
>
>
> yes, thank you, this is indeed a significant improvement and should be
> encouraged for all 3d mapping of buildings.
>
> I'm undecided whether this approach should also be applied to non-building
> stuff like the Trajan's Column or the obelisk at St.Peter's Square. These
> aren't buildings (but as they are mapped as building parts, the situation
> isn't all that different). Either these parts should get different tags, or
> the same kind of logical grouping should be used?
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Guides to improve navigation data in OpenStreetMap

[Janko Mihelić]

+1 for counting all lanes, for whatever type of traffic. It's valuable
information for cars that bikes are driving alongside. If a router has to
choose a route for a car, a road without bikes is probably better. If a
driver has to turn left over a bike lane, router should show a danger sign,
watch out for bikes.

There are other types of traffic, like trams:

http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/FWKYU-i61lGVn0gv3aewzw

This link shows two tram lanes with parking places behind them. If a car
wants to park, it should watch out for trams from both directions, and then
cross those lanes and park. I think routers should have this information.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Piers vs Docks

[Janko Mihelić]

Does iD have an American english translation? Maybe it should.

sri, 9. ožu 2016. u 23:08 Clifford Snow  napisao
je:

> Yesterday at our International Women's Day Mapathon in Bellingham, WA, one
> of the participants wanted to add a pier on Bellingham's waterfront.
> (Bellingham is located on Puget Sound) She created a polygon to define the
> pier and tagged it man_man=dock in iD. Perfectly reasonable to a US english
> speaker, but not according to the wiki. It should have been tagged a pier.
> A quick overpass [1] check shows about 300 objects tagged as man_made=dock
> in the US. All but one look incorrect. It seems to me that iD needs some
> sort of heads up to the user. Either default dock to man_made=pier or
> change the search to prompt the user to pick the correct tag.
>
> Should it be requested as an enhancement to iD?
>
> Clifford
>
>
> [1] http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/eTo
>
> --
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> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Janko Mihelić]

I think existing mappers are not the biggest problem. If mapping starts
being paid, there may be an influx of new mappers who do it only for the
money.

They will, of course, map a lot because that's how you get more money. They
will introduce skewed mapping practices at best, and outright wrong mapping
at worst. For example, they may start mapping forests with natural=tree
because that way they get more money.

In my opinion this should be a very controlled practice which will guide
those mappers through a narrow path, and not give them the free will to get
paid for what ever they do.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Janko Mihelić]

Paying mappers should have a very intricate web of defined jobs and
reviewers. Ideally, OSM Tasking Manager should be used. "Map all forests
and roads in this square, I review, and you get 0.1 bitcoins". Anything
less strict is prone to misuse.

Janko

pet, 4. ožu 2016. u 10:36 Lester Caine  napisao je:

> On 03/03/16 11:17, Marc Gemis wrote:
> > If I understand the discussion on [1] correctly OsmAnd will reward
> > mappers with bitcoins. The bitcoins seem to be paid via a formula
> > based on the number of changesets you upload.
> >
> > I think this is a bad idea, (just like Jack Burke illustrates with the
> > Dilbert strips in the linked topic).
> > What do you think about this ? How should we deal with this ?
>
> http://osmand.net/osm_live#information seems to be the correct
> information? Personally I would associate 'live' in relation to a
> routing application to be live updates of traffic conditions, and I
> could understand the monetising of that data, but this does not seem to
> be addressing that particular problem at all?
>
> As someone actively contributing currently, while an income from that
> would be welcome, I don't think this third party activity is helpful to
> OSM! In the first instance I have no intention of contributing to
> bitcoin since I think it's main reason for existence is to hid scammers
> and until that secrecy is removed ... I will not be signing up ...
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
> EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
> Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
> Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
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Re: [OSM-talk] Need some help

[Janko Mihelić]

pet, 4. ožu 2016. u 02:48 Hans De Kryger 
napisao je:

>
> ​My guess is yes, i just checked it and the website is using data from at
> least 2013 or newer so i'm assuming they'd have to accept osm's license
> since that's years after the change. Hopefully that's what you meant Janko?
>

What I meant is they were using OSM data (no matter from what date), and
now they stopped using OSM. Users are contributing directly to their site.
But because users are contributing to a pool of data where a big part is
OSM data, all of it should be ODbL or ODbL compatible. So we can use that
new data and put it into OSM.

I'm not an expert, but that's how I see it.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Need some help

[Janko Mihelić]

All the new data on there should be ODbL too, am I right? It uses old OSM
data so we should be able to use the new data.

uto, 1. ožu 2016. 02:54 Hans De Kryger  je
napisao:

> Got a reply from the website saying it's been fixed. You can see it for
> yourself at the site below.
>
> https://coinmap.org/
> On Feb 23, 2016 9:54 PM, "Hans De Kryger" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Jo Walsh  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And isn't this the project that caused a lot of problems because the
>>> users started adding all kind of services/shops/companies without a
>>> physical presence to the OSM data ? [2]
>>>
>>> [1] http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=20859
>>>
>>> (April 14, 2013)
>>> [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2014-May/069761.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This would seem to be the case:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Bitcoin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Automated contributions via this account stopped 8 months ago:
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BitcoinMaps
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> ​Just sent out an email to the website​
>>
>>
>> *Regards,*
>>
>> *Hans*
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing Starbucks Wikipedia Tags (Was Nominatim Weakness)

[Janko Mihelić]

It would be great if you guys added brand:wikidata=Q37158 to all of them,
that way you can search for all Starbucks with one easy query.

sri, 20. sij 2016. u 00:46 Alejandro S.  napisao je:

> Just removed last wrong point in Spain.
> Only 11 point to go.
>
> Atentamente,
>   Alejandro Suárez
>
> On 18 January 2016 at 07:26, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for getting this fixed. Looks much better already. Only a few
>> countries to go.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Satoshi IIDA  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I had reported this issue on talk-ja ML, and got no against.
>>> So I had removed the tags on Starbucks in Japan area.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2015-12-16 8:32 GMT+09:00 Andy Mabbett :
>>>
 On 15 December 2015 at 21:37, Clifford Snow 
 wrote:
 > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar <
 sea...@gmail.com>
 > wrote:
 >>
 >> I disagree with this tagging. You only tag wikipedia=* if the
 Wikipedia
 >> article and the OSM object refers to the same thing. The Wikipedia
 article
 >> is about the company/brand and not about the original store even
 though the
 >> article would certainly mention the store (as part of the company's
 >> history).

 > I agree, the wikipedia article is "Original Starbucks."  I updated
 the tag
 > to reflect the correct article, not the generic corp. article.

 That's:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Starbucks

 Please also tag the OSM object with:

wikidata=Q16896241

 --
 Andy Mabbett
 @pigsonthewing
 http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> mail: nyamp...@gmail.com
>>> twitter: @nyampire
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> @osm_seattle
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>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing Applications

[Janko Mihelić]

If you ask me, they are all in their infancy. Non of these routing services
even route right. In a turn restriction the "via" role can be a way.
Neither OSRM, ORS or GraphHopper knows how to restrict that, and that's
IMHO one of the crucial parts of a routing engine.

When one of them starts routing right, than we can talk about picking a
winner service. Right now only MapQuest knows how to route.

Janko

sri, 17. lip 2015. 05:34 Hans De Kryger  je
napisao:

> Why do OSRM & OpenRoutingService compete against each other instead of
> joining resources and combining efforts to make the best routing service
> out there? Am i missing something? I know it's nice to have different
> services for different uses but this doesn't seem like a good use of
> resources at all. I may be the only one with this opinion, but this has bug
> me for awhile.
>
> *Regards,*
>
> *Hans*
>
>
> *http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13
> *
>
> *Sorry for any misspellings*
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] README tag with editor support

[Janko Mihelić]

I like the idea. Editors show the message prominently the first time you
touch the object. It doesn't have to be imagery, it can be various messages
to subsequent mappers.

pet, 12. lip 2015. 00:20 David  je napisao:

> Formalising readme is a good and have editing tools display it. But i
> would like to see the readme tag used very selectively. It could contain
> far more data than the rest if the object's tag. Bad if people saw it like
> comments in source code.
>
> Perhaps more emphasis is needed on good manners when editing existing data
> too.
>
> David
> .
>
> Richard Welty  wrote:
>
> >this is a summary of previous discussion on newbies & talk-us
> >
> >we have an ongoing, persistent problem with armchair mappers
> >"correcting" the map to match out of date aerial imagery. i just
> >had to repair the map in Rensselaer, NY; the street named
> >Broadway was reconfigured in late 2012, and bing imagery is
> >out of date. a couple of months ago someone realigned my
> >edits to match the out of date bing imagery. others can and
> >have described similar situations.
> >
> >i have started using the unofficial tag README whenever i
> >make edits that differ from current bing imagery; i usually
> >place the date of the note in ISO format at the beginning
> >of the text. for example, here is the note i placed on the
> >road in Rensselaer:
> >
> >2013-01-15 - reconfiguration of road not yet fully reflected in aerial
> >imagery. do not conform this road to current imagery.
> >
> >this has mostly worked, but in this specific case the armchair
> >mapper chose not to read the note, or read it and dismissed it.
> >
> >so i have two things in mind here:
> >
> >1) formalize the README tag as a way to caution future mappers
> >
> >2) request editor support, when someone goes to change a
> >README tagged entity, it would be nice if editors would popup
> >a dialog saying something along the lines of
> >
> >Warning: read the following before making any changes to this
> >object 
> >
> >other suggestions that have been made have included trying to
> >make the dates on which imagery was collected more obvious,
> >adding warnings when edits are newer than available imagery
> >(or newer than the imagery layer currently being displayed),
> >and pressing to get more current imagery into place.
> >
> >does anyone have any thoughts on how to approach this?
> >
> >richard
> >
> >--
> >rwe...@averillpark.net
> > Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
> > OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
> > Java - Web Applications - Search
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

[Janko Mihelić]

I don't get the problem with k=v instead of just v. There is a function
called concatenate which solves that.

We should move away from mapping directly with tags, and to a system like
iDs, with descriptions that hide tags. For a database it's  irrelevant if
it's "oneway=yes" or "4658". All this talk about correct k=v combinations
is bikeshedding to me. Only DB admins and tag proposers should ever see
what a tag looks like.

Janko

sri, 3. lip 2015. 12:22 Lester Caine  je napisao:

> On 03/06/15 10:30, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> >> Just what combination is right for a single retail building with a
> >> > leisure facility on the ground floor and accommodation above?
> >
> > I don't think a combination of tags is the best answer to this question,
> it's rather a combination of objects (3, one for the building, one for the
> ground floor facility, one for the accommodation facility)
>
> I think my point here was that there is a single building, but a number
> of uses within that outline. We don't have a convenient method of
> handling different objects on different floors within the one set of
> 'ways'. The areas I'm trying to tidy up are small shopping malls which
> have shops within shops on multiple levels ... with accommodation above.
> A combination of objects is just what I'm looking for, but with
> different outlines for each object ...
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
> EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
> Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
> Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attributing others' errors to OSM data and what to do about it. Was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue

[Janko Mihelić]

OSM should act as a consultant to data consumers. Whenever a mistake like
this is spotted, we should try to contact the data consumer and help repair
the misinterpretation. I think nothing more is needed.

We should also make it easier for data consumers to interpret data
correctly. I think we should have a machine readable list of tag
combinations wih their semantic meanings.

Janko

ned, 31. svi 2015. 16:50 pmailkeey .  je napisao:

> Totally agree - the oneway(=no) is being misinterpreted.
>
> OSM's BIG ISSUE is what to do about others misinterpreting OSM data and
> attributing the error to OSM.
>
> --
> Mike.
> @millomweb  -
> For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
> via *the area's premier website - *
>
> *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family,
> property & pets*
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Janko Mihelić]

pet, 29. svi 2015. 18:45 Andrew Guertin  je napisao:

On 05/27/2015 05:13 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> We are a database of geodata [...]

> Would it not be better to record the wikidata link for London, and
> then (perhaps in co-operation with people at Wikidata) provide means
> for people doing map rendering to join OSM data with a
> separately-loaded translation table from Wikidata?

Would this be restricted to just names?

I can imagine a world where no information about businesses is stored in
OSM. OSM has a geometry and a wikidata link. Wikidata says what kind of
business it is, what its name is, what its contact info it, what its
opening hours are, etc.

That would be a very different world from the one we live in. In lieu of
listing them all out, I will just say I can see many benefits to living
in that world, and many benefits to what we have now.

Is that a goal of this integration?

I've been thinking about this for a while, so I have a lot of questions
based on the answer...
--Andrew

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 What I'm sure about is that Wikidata isn't the place for opening hours of
shops and businesses. The question is, should we build our own OSMData or
OpenPOIData that has that information, or is OSM good enough.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Reporting routing problems

[Janko Mihelić]

I'd like the following procedure:

1. user makes a route and finds an error
2. There is a button "Found an error in your route?"
3. You click the button, and it behaves the same as the existing note
button. You drag the pointer to the problematic part of your route and
write "you can't turn left here".
4. Later a mapper clicks the note, and it shows the text and the
problematic route.

Janko

čet, 28. svi 2015. 16:50 Clifford Snow  je napisao:

>
> On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 3:00 AM, Daniel Koć  wrote:
>
>> User wouldn't know it and that's why I proposed also a note. We
>> (OSM+routing providers) should resolve it or reject if this is not the real
>> problem or it's too hard/too esoteric (#WONTFIX), but there should be an
>> easy way of reporting IMO.
>
>
> +1
>
> We already have Scout reporting routing errors as notes why not encourage
> users to report routing errors using a note? We may not be able to correct
> those where the routing engine refuses to use tracks to reach a destination
> but we should be able to fix turn restrictions, unconnected ways, correct
> access permissions for bikes, etc.
>
> The problem is where to place the instructions to leave a note. Ideally it
> wouldn't show until the user created a route. I wonder if the group that
> implemented routing on osm.org considered this in their design?
>
> Alternatively, the user could report the problem on the help tab of OSM.
> Personally I like notes for their persistence.
>
>
>
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
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Re: [OSM-talk] Can wikidata links help fight name inflation?

[Janko Mihelić]

čet, 28. svi 2015. 00:11 David Cuenca Tudela  je napisao:

It would be great to have a dedicated wikibase install just for geographic
names, like GeoNames but part of openstreetmap.

Such database can be linked to Wikidata and then you can also have items
for every geographic object.

I guess it is hard to make it happen, otherwise it would be done already.



  I don't think it's that hard. Wikibase is just an addon for mediawiki, it
shouldn't be that complicated to install.

We could use that database for objects that aren't notable enough for
Wikidata. They would get a tag OSMData=Q25446 or something like that.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapillary plugin for JOSM

[Janko Mihelić]

This brings us exciting possibilities. Someone could make a layer that
detects inconsistencies between mapillary sign data and osm data. For
example:

-there should be a oneway street near a oneway sign
-there should be a turn restriction or a oneway street junction near a sign
with a turn restriction
-there should be a maxspeed tag where there is a max speed sign
...

Janko

uto, 5. svi 2015. 00:49 Clifford Snow  je napisao:

>
> On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 3:16 PM, moltonel 3x Combo 
> wrote:
>
>> Looking forward to the josm plugin and the merging/locating of signs :)
>
>
> +1 - I got so excited that I purchased a new cell phone mount from
> GeekWire to replace my defective old mount.
>
>
>
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup

[Janko Mihelić]

If we want to unify a kind of chain store, I think we should leave the name
tag, and focus on other tags. Some examples are ref:vatin=* for the vat id
of the store, brand:wikidata=* for the wikidata id of the brand owner,
website=* for the central website, or we can find a new better tag that
should be the same with all certain chain stores. Names should be left to
the local mapper.

Janko

pet, 1. svi 2015. 17:39 pmailkeey .  je napisao:

> On 1 May 2015 at 16:07, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> On 05/01/2015 12:04 AM, Andrew MacKinnon wrote:
>> > I am trying to figure out a way of cleaning up incorrect chain store
>> > data in OSM. For example there are 1422 instances of "McDonalds" in
>> > OSM (should be McDonald's) and 203 instances of "Tim Horton's" (should
>> > be Tim Hortons).
>>
>> That's a very "computer person" approach to take. In fact, the
>> "McDonald's" issue has already been tried by someone in the past with an
>> undiscussed mechanical edit, promptly falsifying a few non-chain
>> non-fastfood places that *really* were called McDonalds just as you
>> mention.
>>
>> I don't think that is something that really advances the quality in OSM,
>> and I would encourage you to grab a notepad and venture outside to do
>> some mapping. That way you wouldn't be scripting world-wide cleanup
>> operations but who knows, you might actually add real value to OSM.
>>
>> Leave the mis-spelled "McDonalds" to those who map in the area. Maybe it
>> encourages them.
>>
>>
> I'd go for the mechanical edit. Actually, I'd go for a central single
> point of maintenance for store names - so we change them all with one
> change.
>
> Doing manual edits, how long does it take OSM to reflect the name change
> globally ? It's my guess that this would be less accurate than changing
> them all in one move. The change should of course be name --> old_name and
> then a new name applied. I'm also in favour of being ahead of the game -
> gives a better impression that the map's well up to date.
>
> --
> Mike.
> @millomweb  -
> For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
> via *the area's premier website - *
>
> *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family,
> property & pets*
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Sidewalks

[Janko Mihelić]

I agree with suggesting adding names to sidewalks.

I'm not sure about only mapping sidewalks that are  separated from the
road. I agree it has some logic to it, but what about mapping sidewalk
width, surface, markings on the ground for the blind, and all those
attributes a sidewalk can have? Tagging that on the road makes an even
bigger mess of tags.

Janko

sub, 25. tra 2015. 11:30 Roland Olbricht  je napisao:

> Dear all,
>
> our current pedestrian routers often don't give street names, but instead
> only instructions like "look for the line on the map".
> To improve that I would like to encourage mappers to give separately
> mapped footways their proper name instead of leaving them without name.
>
> The suggestion had been widely discussed with the German community.
> Finally we found the following approach:
>
> Keep separation rules as already established:
>
> A sidewalk (or bike lane) shall be mapped as a separate way only if a
> pedestrian cannot cross the car lanes at any point, i.e. there are fences
> or grass strip between footway and the car lanes.
>
> Change the tagging suggestion for separated sidewalks and bike lanes:
> - Sidewalks should carry "highway=footway" + "footway=sidewalk" +
> "name=Name of the Street" (already in widespread use)
> - Bike lanes should carry "highway=cycleway" + "cycleway=sidewalk" +
> "name=Name of the Street" (similar problem)
>
> Currently, both the suggestion of "footway=sidewalk" (similar for cycling)
> and copying the name is not suggested consistenly in the wiki. Are there
> any objections to clean-up the wiki with that regard?
>
> Side effects on other tools are almost uniformly positive:
> - Having the name multiple times on the various chunks of a street is a
> standard OSM policy.
> - Renderers could handle abundant name tags by ignoring names on ways
> tagged with "footway/cycleway=sidewalk"
> - Routing engines actually can improve by having the name of the road
> - Quality assurance tools would also profit by having more hints for
> checking
>
> Best regards,
>
> Roland
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Right Way to Map Bridge over Waterways

[Janko Mihelić]

I suggest help.osm.org for questions like this.

And the answer is, add bridge=yes on the bridge if you haven't, and layer=1.

Janko

sub, 18. tra 2015. 13:31 Enock Seth Nyamador  je
napisao:

> Hi,
>
> Can someone please help me with the right way to map bridges over
> waterways.
> What I know and have been doing all this while is first map the waterway
> and draw bridge over it.
>
> But as of JOSM 8159 Validation Result tells me: "Crossing
> waterway/highway".
> What's the problem here? I guess am missing something.
>
> Best,
>
> - Enock
>
> OpenStreetMap Ghana
> twitter: @Enock4seth
> enockseth.blogspot.com | [[User:Enock4seth]]
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] video mapping

[Janko Mihelić]

Mapillary announced they support video now:

http://blog.mapillary.com/update/2015/03/31/video-upload.html

sub, 11. tra 2015. 18:00 Peter Gervai  je
napisao:

> Hello,
>
> For quite a while I was hoping that it's just me; I thought maybe
> everyone else is able to use some tool for video mapping but as time
> have passed I kind of realised that nobody I know knows about a
> working solution. I use Linux (what else).
>
> Video mapping: I have a camera, records a movie. I have a GPX,
> contains the track. I would like to use the data combined in JOSM
> (preferably, or any working standalone application if it fails, which
> is inconvenient but still useful more or less) to be able to see
> images for a given position, possibly being able to frame-forward and
> reverse (to read signs etc). It seems simple enough. I don't even care
> about soundtrack.
>
> There is a VideoMapping plugin for JOSM. No, that's not correct. There
> was a plan to create a working VideoMapping plugin for JOSM in 2010.
> Since then the development ceased completely and the code, as it is,
> uses specific and pretty eccentric java libraries which doesn't work
> at all under Linux (or possibly anywhere else but windoze). I have
> tried several times but based on the (non-)feedback from JOSM
> developers the code doesn't work, not expected to work and nobody able
> or care to rewrite the video display codepaths.
>
>
> So, I ask around, here, now: does anyone know a _working_ solution
> (working under Linux) for the desire above? Isn't there anyone with
> the wish and will to code a JOSM video plugin instead of that very
> beta piece of code (or fix it, but my guess is that it is not quite
> "fixable")? Shouldn't be that hard - unless there is really no way to
> display images under java (I'm not familiar with java, you see).
>
> Or is there any external code possibly doing what's needed?
>
> Or really nobody does videomapping anywhere?
>
> True, I could cut the video apart to images at given intervals and
> geotag them but then I'd lose 97% (29/30) of the recorded data. (Even
> the sound track but I could live without it, and there seem to be an
> audio sync plugin for JOSM - I have never tried.)
>
> Any help or input would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing across parks

[Janko Mihelić]

2015-03-18 11:25 GMT+01:00 Maarten Deen :

>
> Are there routers that do shortest-path routing across areas? I do not
> have an example of an area without additional roads ready.
>

I'm not aware of any routers that routes across areas.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing across parks

[Janko Mihelić]

2015-03-10 17:56 GMT+01:00 Volker Schmidt :

>
> To solve this, one needs possibly a new (?) tag for parks like
> stay_on_path=yes|no
>

Maybe we need a general tag that says if an area can be traversed by foot
in any direction. Would foot=yes be enough?
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing on osm.org

[Janko Mihelić]

2015-02-16 21:19 GMT+01:00 Colin Smale :

>
> My first quick test in Kent yielded a route (about 6 miles) which while
> perfectly viable, no-one in their right mind would take. But that is
> probably more of a quirk of OSRM than anything else.
>

That's the beauty, you can try out other engines as well. For example,
Mapquest has a big advantage, it takes into account turn restrictions when
"via" is a way. OSRM just ignores those turn restrictions. That means that
OSRM will rote through U-turns which are not allowed.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] MEP - pipelines

[Janko Mihelić]

Dana 7. 1. 2015. 03:53 osoba "Bryce Nesbitt" 
napisala je:
>>
>> While we're at it, it would be nice to have a database that allows going
from the tagged item (e.g., "fitness centre") to recommended tag.
>
>
> The iD editor has a nice internal feature called aliases, so a person
looking to add a restroom will find the toilet preset.
>

+1
We need something like those aliases, but centralised so all editors have
the same presets, and data consumers don't have to dig around our wiki and
taginfo to find what they need.

Also, if data consumers use this potential online service to dinamically
get the tags they need, their process wouldn't be vulnerable to these kinds
of changes.
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Re: [OSM-talk] New building colour

[Janko Mihelić]

I like how churches have a darker colour. I'd like for schools, hospitals
and other more important buildings to also have the darker colour.

2015-01-04 18:34 GMT+01:00 SomeoneElse :

> On 04/01/2015 13:01, Lester Caine wrote:
>
>> Perhaps now is the time to be looking again at real time rendering with a
>> selectable style sheet, or perhaps simply a base layer on top of which
>> different languages and styles can be selected.
>>
>
> That sort of thing has been suggested before(1) but having configurable
> tile layers on osm.org needs someone to actually write the code to
> support that.  If you just want to create a map style for your customers,
> then of course that isn't a requirement - the tools to do it are available
> and the process to set up an OSM-a-like tile server is well documented(2).
> There are maintenance aspects that are less well documented, but even most
> of that info's around somewhere.  I switched from mostly using the osm.org
> "standard" style back in the summer when it became clear that its
> priorities weren't mine.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
> 1) https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2014-December/028206.html
> - and probably many times previously too.
>
> 2) See summary of links at the end of https://lists.openstreetmap.
> org/pipermail/dev/2014-December/028205.html
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM-Tagging in Wikidata

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-12-31 0:26 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

> the combination of amenity=restaurant and cuisine=fastfood seems pointless
> to me, fastfood is not a reasonable cuisine type when you look how cuisine
> is used in osm (and fwiw, there are only 12 occurences of cuisine=fastfood
> in the db, i.e. it's non-existent).
>

Ok guys, cuisine=fastfood was something I came up with after ten seconds of
thought, I know it's a bad example. Let's forget it.

I found a better example, amenity=place_of_worship + religion=christian
that is Q16970 (Church (building)). amenity=place_of_worship itself can be
Q199451 (Pagoda) and religion=christian itself can be anything connected to
christianism (monasteries, cemeteries..) So you need a combination of these
two tags for this project to work.

Again, I think this project is great. It's just that I'm afraid it won't
get any traction if people see that you can't define all terms.

On the other hand, amenity=fastfood in osm might be more inclusive than
> wikidatas "Fastfood restaurants" (Q1751429), so mapping them 1:1 might also
> lead to some errors.
>

These terms with fuzzy borders will never be 100% the same in both
projects. I think 90% is pretty good.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM-Tagging in Wikidata

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-12-30 23:36 GMT+01:00 John F. Eldredge :

> On 12/30/2014 03:00 PM, Philip Barnes wrote:
>
>> Fastfood is a method of service, not a cuisine.
>>
>>  Agreed.  There are fast-food versions of many different cuisines.
>

 Ok, but fastfood cuisine was not the point. The point is that tag
combinations have distinct meanings.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM-Tagging in Wikidata

[Janko Mihelić]

Ok, you found a way to go around power=generator, but that's just a
loophole. How would you go around
highway=path+bicycle=designated+foot=designated+segregated=yes? If you
leave out just one of those tags, it changes the resulting meaning. What's
your solution? Just leave out Q221722 altogether? As OSM matures, number of
various combinations of tags with distinct meanings will only be higher.

Making a Wikidata list of tags without combinations is an OK reference, but
it will newer be complete.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM-Tagging in Wikidata

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-12-30 2:06 GMT+01:00 Kolossos :

>
> Perhaps you have a better example to let me re-think this topic.
> "cuisine=fastfood" is only used 12 times [2].
>

For example bike paths (Q221722), highway=path + bicycle=designated +
foot=designated + segregated=yes

Wind turbine (Q49833), power=generator + generator:source=wind

I can list all the other generator types here.

Reservoir (Q131681), natural=water + water=reservoir
plus all the other types of water.

man_made=tower +
tower:type=communication/climbing/bell_tower/cooling/lighting

Each one could have its Wikipedia page.

So, there are a lot. If you don't find a way to use multiple tags, I think
this will not be a serious project. Maybe there's a way to delimit strings
and use a format that can use n strings?

Janko Mihelić
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM-Tagging in Wikidata

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-12-29 12:26 GMT+01:00 Kolossos :

> It's possible to build 1:n and n:1 relations.
>
> That means "amenity=marketplace" links to 2 Wikidata entries Q330284
> (marketplace) and Q132510 (streetmarket). In the other direction
> "power=minor_line" and "power=line" are linking both to Q2144320
> (Overhead power line). It's in both cases a OR-connection.
> As far I can see it's not possible to support an AND.
>

For this to be a valuable resource, I think we need an AND. What if we used:

Tag:amenity=restaurant+cuisine=fastfood

But then the Formater URL Statement of the P1282 wouldn't be entirely
correct. I think that's a small price.

I have another suggestion. Sometimes tags mean different things in
different countries. For example highway=primary means Q765207 in Croatia,
but it means Q792334 in Belgium. For these cases I would use a qualifier
P131 (located in the administrative territorial entity) and that means that
the tag (or combination of tags) only works in that administrative entity.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM-Tagging in Wikidata

[Janko Mihelić]

Very interesting project! Keep it up, I might come and help you.

What if you add more tags in Wikidata? Does that mean that an object in OSM
needs to have all those tags, or just one of them? Is it an AND or an OR?

For example, in Wikidata you have an element "Fastfood restaurants"
(Q1751429). How do you add "amenity=fastfood" and a combination of
"amenity=restaurant + cuisine=fastfood"? Both are fastfood restaurants.

Janko

2014-12-28 23:33 GMT+01:00 Kolossos :

> Hello,
> I work the last weeks to bring the OSM-tagging to
> Wikidata, by using:
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property_talk:P1282
>
> I work through the "Map features"-site from top to down.
> (It was a funny job to find right Wikipedia-articles.)
> Not in all cases it was possible to find a right matching.
>
> The main use-case I see in translations of our tagging system in smaller
> languages. This can be interesting for tools like ID-editor or for the
> search in the OSM-Wiki. Wikidata can also be a hub to connect to other
> projects.
>
> At the end I hope also this connection can help to give OSM objects an
> Wikipedia/Wikidata-Tag. So I hope we can check a tagging with the "is
> instance of"-property in Wikidata.
>
> Taginfo already support this 626 connections:
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/projects/wikidata_org#tags
>
> Greetings Tim alias Kolossos
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto

[Janko Mihelić]

I like the fact that churches have a darker colour. I'd like to see
hospitals, schools, museums and other more important buildings with a
darker colour too.

Nice to see the main layer get some makeup.

Janko

2014-11-27 10:16 GMT+01:00 Lester Caine :

> On 27/11/14 01:16, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> > We are considering to change the colour of buildings in
> > openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org.
> > Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map,
> > we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this
> > change.
>
> Not sure your demo is proving anything. Zooming in on the area covered
> by the demo on the live map I'm not seeing very much of the corruptions
> introduced by switching building names from brown to purple and adding
> the 'centroid' dt which then pushes everything off to one side :( PLEASE
> get ONE thing fixed first and fully deployed before changing something
> else.
>
> Building colour is fine here
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.09209/-1.94670. I don't
> unfortunately have an example of the section which had much tidier brown
> text on all the buildings, but I think I HAVE established that a zoom
> level should use the icon OMLY when the name is not displayed, and if
> there is no icon don't just display a dot :(
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
> EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
> Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
> Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?

[Janko Mihelić]

There is a blog entry about uploading GoPro photos to Mapillary:

http://blog.mapillary.com/technology/2014/07/21/upload-scripts.html

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Detrimental validation software

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-10-13 14:06 GMT+02:00 Mike N :

>
>   This could be a valid use of noexit=yes so that it won't be back on the
> QA tool?
>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2014-April/017367.html
>

I agree, noexit=yes is the best solution, but you could also draw a little
rectangle with landuse=grass (or surface=grass, or whatever is the best tag
for this is) and two nodes with natural=tree, and a footway around both
sides of the grass. If you want people to take an area seriously, you
micromap the hell out of it, and people will think twice before deleting
something someone has put effort in.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] How best to view geometry history for a way?

[Janko Mihelić]

I was under the impression that this tool:

http://overpass-api.de/achavi/

was able to show historical geometry, but whenever I try to use it I fail.
Either it's not working properly yet, or I don't know how to use it.

Janko

2014-09-25 15:32 GMT+02:00 Bryce Nesbitt :

> I'm looking for a current answer to:
> https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/6208/
> *How to view the geometry of an older way?*
>
> Specifically I'm trying to view 2 and 3 of:
> http://iandees.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/20953890
>
> I tried using JOSM's reversion plugin to see the old version, but could
> not make it work.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Visually detect missing roads

[Janko Mihelić]

Great tool! Found one canal that needed mapping in my area. I'm guessing
this will be great for countries that are badly mapped, and you need to
find quickly what areas need your attention.

Janko

2014-09-18 18:48 GMT+02:00 Dave F. :

> On 18/09/2014 17:07, Stephan Knauss wrote:
>
>>
>> It's coming from their database. Google does expose a classification
>> through the v3 API. My map does consider the road types "arterial" and
>> "highway" as major and "local" as minor. For OSM data unclassified and
>> higher is considered major.
>>
>
> OK. Ignoring that we're not meant to use Google data to amend OSM data, &
> there's a strong case to say that you are, I'll still not be using your
> diff map:
>
> 1. Confusing to use. That it flashes whenever a user pans or zooms is
> irritating and that you need to repeatedly swap between renderings makes it
> highly non user friendly.
>
> 2. To validate any differences, only to find they're repeatedly Google
> problems is not a great use of my time.
>
> 3. I don't think your correlation of road classifications is accurate
> enough.
>
> Dave F.
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Wood & Park mapnik carto anomaly?

[Janko Mihelić]

Ideally we could render little trees on top of the park.

Janko

2014-09-16 14:41 GMT+02:00 Matthijs Melissen :

> On 16 September 2014 11:25, Dave F.  wrote:
> > I've mapped an area where a woodland overlaps with a park:
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.48959/-2.52536
> >
> > The new mapnik rendering doesn't display it.
> > Here's a comparison with old & new:
> > http://bl.ocks.org/tyrasd/raw/6164696/#16.00/51.4890/-2.5267
>
> In general, we render smaller landuse on top of larger landuse. That
> gives sometimes unexpected results if two landuse areas overlap each
> other only partially. However, I can't think of any better ordering.
>
> In the old rendering, the overlap was visible because we rendered park
> transparent. However, we removed the transparent rendering because it
> often gives counterintuitive colours. The old rendering of this place
> is a good example: you wouldn't really guess that the middle green
> colour denotes an overlap of wood and park.
>
> So I don't think this is something we can really fix on the rendering side.
>
> -- Matthijs
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Wood & Park mapnik carto anomaly?

[Janko Mihelić]

This is the place for Standard layer issues:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues

I searched a bit and I didn't find the issue with parks. Try searching
yourself, maybe I just didn't find it.

Janko

2014-09-16 12:25 GMT+02:00 Dave F. :

> Hi
> I've mapped an area where a woodland overlaps with a park:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.48959/-2.52536
>
> The new mapnik rendering doesn't display it.
> Here's a comparison with old & new:
> http://bl.ocks.org/tyrasd/raw/6164696/#16.00/51.4890/-2.5267
>
> You'll also notice it previous rendered it with a different shade of green.
> Other than split it into a separate area, which I don't really want to do,
> is there a solution? Does it need to be flagged as a render error?
>
> Cheers
> Dave F.
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMdata: a Wikidata-like editor for OpenStreetMap

[Janko Mihelić]

Maybe OSMdata could be used to make auto-generated nice pages for
businesses and other POIs. A little map, telephone number, opening hours,
webpage link, a picture if it's connected to wikipedia, or if it has an
image=* tag, and so on. Then when search engines indexes it, people will
get that as a page for their local shops. And you can edit it on the spot.

Some people at Wikidata suggested a redesign along those lines [1].

[1] http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:UI_redesign_input
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMdata: a Wikidata-like editor for OpenStreetMap

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-09-12 14:12 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
> If you want to set up a DB about restaurant reviews, please do this
> without the need to link from osm, e.g. with name comparison and spatial
> proximity, by looking at the operator, etc.
>

You're right, "Overpass Permanent ID"[1] property in OSMdata is probably
better than writing an ID on the object in most cases. But maybe sometimes
directly linking by ID would be better if a query is difficult to point at
some object.

Janko

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Permanent_ID
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMdata: a Wikidata-like editor for OpenStreetMap

[Janko Mihelić]

I have been proposing a very similar idea, where OSMdata would be used for
data that is not suitable for the main OSM database, but is not notable
enough for Wikidata.
For example: link objects to other databases, adding stuff like restaurant
reviews, creating categories which are not suitable for relations and so on.

But the way I thought it would be used is to add a new item to OSMdata, and
then link it to OSM with its OSMdata ID, "osmdata=Oxxx". That way the link
to an object would be stable, so if you convert a node to a way, you just
copy the osmdata id.

Your proposal to just shift the whole database to OSMdata is interesting. I
think a dynamic link could also be possible. OSMdata could just query the
main database when you ask it for N40983. It doesn't have to have a copy of
the whole database.

Janko Mihelić

2014-09-12 11:41 GMT+02:00 Cristian Consonni :

> Hi all
>
> The (long) discussion about importing Wikidata tags in OSM has
> prompted this idea into my mind:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSMdata
>
> I have also describe here in the IdeaLab on meta-wiki:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/OSMdata:_a_Wikidata-like_editor_for_OpenStreetMap
>
> Here's a quick summary:
>
> == What ==
> * using a MediaWiki + Wikibase - let's call it OSMdata[*] - install to
> host an item about every single object in OSM (following this schema
> Nxxx for nodes, Wxxx for ways, Rxxx for relations).
> * claims in a OSMdata page about an item map exactly to key, values
> pairs for the same object in OSM.
> * OSMdata is synchronized and kept up-to-date with the OSM database (read)
> * users can login in OSMdata with their OSM account and contribute,
> adding new claims this are saved back automatically in the OSM
> database (write)
>
> == Rationale ==
> * it seems awesome (!)
> * the OSM community gains a new editor for OpenStreetMap, an editor which
> use a well known interface and which can get all the benefits of
> MediaWiki+Wikibase software development
> * Wikibase is tested at 60x its current scale
> * Wikibase is used in another big project
>
> Let me stress again that I see OSMdata as being an editor, not a
> repository for OSM, in fact I image in it to be a specialized editor
> to be used for editing tags.
> In my view the idea is to provide a well known interface to edit OSM
> (both manually and automatically with bots, using the same bot
> frameworks already available for editing Wikidata).
>
> I have described this idea in the talk-it malling list (in Italian)
> and a (at least conceptual) similarity has been pointed out towards
> the textual editor Level0[2].
>
> I would like to know your opinion, and I would also like to set up
> some prototype with a small subset of the data. I tried to set up this
> myself but, unfortunately, I am blocked on the first obstacle, i.e.:
> how can I tell Wikibase to let me create items with names Nxxx, Wxxx
> and Rxxx instead of Qxxx? I do not know enough PHP (nor MediaWiki or
> Wikibase) to do this myself. Any help in this direction would be much
> appreciated.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Cristian
>
> [*] any reference to Wikidata is purely intentional
> [1]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2014-September/044540.html
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Janko Mihelić]

Hi Frederik, great post.

I always thought wikidata tags would be a first step to a new database that
OSM needs, and which would be something like Wikidata is to Wikipedia. A
database that classifies and categorizes elements in OSM. In my opinion a
slightly modified version of Wikibase could be enough. It would have
combinations of tags and areas where that category applies.

If we had a database item in our potential OSM-wikibase that said "all
primary highways with ref 55 in the UK" and then offload the proprietary
identifiers there, I think no one would mind.

Another problem this potential database solves is the often quoted
"relations aren't categories". We could make an item "HSBC ATM machines"
and add a few tags that define an element as a HSBC ATM machine
(amenity=atm + operator=HSBC, or amenity=atm + ref:HSBC=34 or whatever)

Even wikidata tags that we are discussing could be deprecated if we had
such a database. We would have our own identifiers (O3489 instead of
Q23489) and those identifiers would link to wikidata as well as to other
databases.

If we don't make our own database that categorizes our tags and elements,
someone else will do it. In this case, it's Wikidata, which is better then
the rest because it is crowdsourced, it has an open license for it's data,
and it has opensource software for it's database and user interface. So if
I'm not mistaken, we could fork their project if that was needed. But if I
could choose, we would have our own.

Janko Mihelić

2014-08-30 23:40 GMT+02:00 Frederik Ramm :

> Hi,
>
> On 08/29/2014 08:10 PM, Rob Nickerson wrote:
> > Lets just step back and reflect on this for a minute.
>
> My overarching concern is that if this import is done, future imports
> will use the "but we also have Wikidata links" argument for justification.
>
> What we have here is a third-party database whose object identifiers we
> add to OSM as tags in order to make linking things easier.
>
> This is something that has often been requested by people but never been
> granted on a large scale because we always said that it would be an
> abuse of our database and our mapper's patience to offload everyone's
> and their dog's linking requirements onto us.
>
> Imagine every single stretch of road being tagged with three different
> proprietary (or at least competing) identifiers of traffic information
> providers, or similar payload tacked onto OSM.
>
> I'm not saying no to a Wikidata import but I would like the proponents
> to state clearly what makes this import special - why this and not, for
> example, Ordnance Survey TOIDs or IDs of Mapillary photos?
>
> I would like to define high hurdles for such an import. The import costs
> us a lot (in terms of mappers having to spend time to understand the
> tags and know how to handle them when they edit an object, more quality
> checks, etc.), and it must be proven - or at least expected - to offset
> that cost by making itself useful. It's ok of this particular import
> clears the hurdles but at least I can then use the hurdles if the next
> guy in line comes along and wants to import his keys too.
>
> Also, I note that Rob wrote:
>
> "We have our own restrictions (verifiable on the ground, not changing to
> frequently) in OSM. A link to wikidata allows us to continue with these
> restrictions but still allow people to get at interesting non-geographic
> data."
>
> And Andrew said:
>
> "A few more points: This isn’t a deletionists’ charter and we shouldn’t
> rush to unload any tagging onto Wikidata without discussing the removal
> very carefully."
>
> I am personally very much in favour of "unloading" non-geo-database
> tagging elsewhere. We started with marking restaurants (useful) and
> recording their names (also useful), classing them into fast-food or
> "proper" restaurants, then tagging what cuisine they have and how to
> contact them for booking a table, and meanwhile we're recording whether
> they have vegan food and what their opening times are and whetehr you
> can pay with bitcoin. We don't currently have anywhere to "offload" that
> information which is all useful for certain use cases, but once we have
> a working integration, I should very much hope that stuff like the menu
> and the opening times will be recorded either in OSM or in Wikidata but
> not both.
>
> Allow me one question in that matter as a Wikidata ignorant though: Are
> there any notability rules in Wikidata? For example, if we should one
> day decide that restaurant opening times should not be recorded in OSM
> but on Wikidata, can it then happen that someone records a restaurant&#x

Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Janko Mihelić]

Here's another example:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34012792

This railroad track will get the wikidata tag, the other track and footway
won't. And even the track that gets the tag, isn't the whole length of the
bridge. And I didn't even look that hard. I found problems on 2 out of 6
bridges I clicked.

I'm not against your import, I think your work on this is great, but the
bridge part is just not that simple.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Janko Mihelić]

Well, you should at least take preference to man_made=bridge[1] if there is
any. Highways can be split, just like in my example, and then that looks as
if there are two bridges. What if there is a footway running besides the
road? Should it also get the wikidata tag?

If we start putting wikidata=* on highways, there should be an initiative
to add man_made=bridge on those and move the tag there. At least with
bridges that have more than one highway on them.

The same story is with tunnels, although I see there is no page with
man_made=tunnel yet.

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dbridge


2014-08-28 19:42 GMT+02:00 Edward Betts :

> Janko Mihelić  wrote:
> > Bridges are bit of a grey area, is a highway with bridge=yes really a
> > bridge, or is it a highway which has a property of being on a bridge? I
> > think we should map these notable bridges as an area with man_made=bridge
> > and put the tag on that.
> > The very first example of a bridge on your list is already problematic:
> >
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/5620489
>
> That way represents both the street and the bridge. I don't think there is
> any problem with adding a tag for the matching item on wikidata.
>
> http://wikidata.org/wiki/Q4547392
>
> --
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-08-28 14:41 GMT+02:00 Edward Betts :

>
> For now I've side stepped this problem. If you look at an institution like
> a
> hospital, university or school you'll often find multiple buildings, some
> might include a name and be tagged amenity=hospital/university/school. If
> my
> code spots two or more nearby items with the correct tags and matching
> names
> it skips them, so I don't have to deal with multiple OSM items having the
> same
> wikidata tag.
>

Most of this cases are probably just bad tagging, but it's possible some of
them indeed are multiple objects described in an article. It would be
useful to make a KeepRight style map with such problematic objects.


> I can also detect if there are two nearby items with the same name but
> different tagging. I found an article on Wikipedia that was in the
> categories
> for bridge and monument. In OSM we have a 'way' to represent the bridge
> and a
> 'node' in the middle of the bridge for the monument. I skip these as well,
> there are just over 200 of them.
>

Bridges are bit of a grey area, is a highway with bridge=yes really a
bridge, or is it a highway which has a property of being on a bridge? I
think we should map these notable bridges as an area with man_made=bridge
and put the tag on that.
The very first example of a bridge on your list is already problematic:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/5620489

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

[Janko Mihelić]

There's one fundamental question about wikidata tags; how do you tag
multiple objects that have the same wikidata tag? For example, a wikidata
entry about a church and a connected monastery. When I was writing the
Wikidata proposal on our wiki, I've put a rule that only one object in OSM
can have the same wikidata=* tag. So when there are more ways in OSM that
represent one element in Wikidata, we should put them in a relation and put
the wikidata tag in the relation.

Since then I changed my opinion a bit, but I'm not sure if we should just
put wikidata=* on all ways, or if we should invent a new tag,
wikidata:part=* and put that tag on all the objects.

The problem with putting wikidata=* on several objects is that people could
come to an idea to put wikidata=Q3947 (entry about houses) on all houses,
or wikidata=12280 on all bridges. That's why I think wikidata:part=* is the
best way to deal with this, and make multiple wikidata tags with the same
value invalid.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] route=road - What's that all about then?

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-08-22 13:42 GMT+02:00 Pieren :

>
> And if you ask me, I would say the opposite.
> *Excepted perhaps for ways with multiple refs*, these relations are just
> used as categories :
>

 What did you mean with this? Do you suggest we use relations when there
are multiple refs, and ways when there is only one ref?
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Re: [OSM-talk] route=road - What's that all about then?

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-08-22 13:42 GMT+02:00 Pieren :

> Excepted perhaps for ways
> with multiple refs, these relations are just used as categories :
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Relations_are_not_Categories
>
> "We do not, however, create relations that simply collect a loose
> group of somewhat related items. "
>

If road routes are categories, then bus routes are also categories.
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Re: [OSM-talk] route=road - What's that all about then?

[Janko Mihelić]

I agree it's double information. But if you ask me, the ref tags on ways
should be deleted, and route relations can be used as information for
highway refs. This makes sense because you can have more than one route on
one way.

P.S. I think this is for the tagging mailing list.


Janko


2014-08-21 20:20 GMT+02:00 Dave F. :

> Hi
>
> http://ra.osmsurround.org/analyzeRelation?relationId=18159&_noCache=on
>
> This route relation appears to be just for the B3070. Isn't that a waste
> of time as it's covered by the ref tags on the ways?
>
> I thought route relations were a way to allow tagging of journeys taken
> over numerous types of ways. Any reason why I shouldn't delete it?
>
> Dave F.
>
> ---
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Re: [OSM-talk] "Incorrect speed limit" anonymous notes - who is behind that?

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-07-29 13:39 GMT+02:00 Peter Wendorff :

> Hi Shaun,
>
> if I understand these maps correctly, they show streets without a
> maxspeed tag, but not msising maxspeed restrictions under the assumption
> of a national default or something like that (although it seems not so
> show any "missing maxspeed" in Germany, so there might be something like
> that applied).
>

There is consensus to tag roads with implied maxspeed with tags like
"maxspeed=50 + source:maxspeed=de:urban". So all roads should have maxspeed
tags.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Upcoming openstreetmap-carto changes

[Janko Mihelić]

It's great to see the default map layer finally moving forward!


Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] The biggest violation of OpenStreetMap, ever.

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-07-14 17:38 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
> Yes, we are basically discussing (at least) two topics here, one is to get
> the "most" important cities on a world scale (likely doable manually), and
> the other is to get a good approximation for every place (i.e. thousands or
> millions of small ones, with relative importance for everyone, likely to be
> done automatically or semi-automatically with help of good algorithms). Of
> course even if you try to be "objective" you will never be, and the
> perception of what is important does vary a lot based on your own cultural
> background, e.g. "Mecca" is not on one of the linked Cities lists of
> wikipedia, but hundreds of millions of people would probably want it
> there...
>

The thing is, what you need is relative importance of nearby cities. Nearby
cities are not so much subject to cultural background bias, because they
are usually from similar cultures.

Here's a list of some cities and wikipedias (number of wikipedia articles
in different languages about a city). I think it looks pretty good.

New York - 192 (more than nearby Washington even though Washington is
capital)
Tokyo - 192
São Paulo - 188 (more than nearby Rio de Janeiro)
Washington - 182
Wien - 176 (more than nearby Bratislava)
Rio de Janeiro - 156
Bratislava - 153
Baghdad - 152
Zagreb - 142 (more than nearby Ljubljana)
Mecca - 138 (more than nearby Jeddah, even though it has less then half the
population)
Ljubljana - 130
Montevideo - 125
Ulan Bator - 121
Bamako - 113
Jeddah - 106
Perth - 95
Casablanca - 93
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Re: [OSM-talk] The biggest violation of OpenStreetMap, ever.

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-07-14 16:40 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
> Or we could use some other external dataset, e.g. "important" cities
> according to the analysis of someone else (usually economy centered), see
> e.g. here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city
>

It would be quite easy to find the number of wikipedias from different
languages that have an article about a place. That way small but
internationally known towns or villages could have better rating than some
places with more population.

For example, Smiljan [1] is a small village in Croatia where Nikola Tesla
was born, and it has 22 wikipedias with an article about it. Oteš [2] is a
village right besides it, and it has 5 wikipedias.

Also, if a place has a wikivoyage page about it, that means it's quite a
popular tourist place.

It's a bit of a heuristic way of solving this, but heuristic is maybe the
only way we have.

Janko

[1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q367211
[2] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2473950
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Re: [OSM-talk] Drop rendering of permissive access?

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-07-02 10:01 GMT+02:00 Theodin :

> For me it was always clear that the standard access appearing on the map
> was meant for cars.
>

I'd say if a way was meant primarily for cars (primary, secondary,
tertiary, residential, unclassified, service) then render access for cars.
If it was meant primarily for pedestrians (footway, path, pedestrian, maybe
even track) then render access for foot.

And if we want to go wild, maybe in zoom 19 render a little sign with a
crossed over pedestrian on service roads if pedestrians aren't allowed, or
something like that.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Fwd: Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)

[Janko Mihelić]

This would be a very interesting experiment that would show how much this
two data sets correlate. The starting premises (distance, involving tags
and properties) should be heavily reviewed and scrutinized in this mailing
list though.

I think we should have a (semi-official) list of correlating sets of tags
in OSM and properties in Wikidata that guarantee something in one database
is the same type of entity as some other thing in the other database.

For example, if something in Wikidata has a pair:
P31=Q16970 (instance of=church)
then in OSM this is:
amenity=place_of_worship + religion=christian

If we had a database with these pairs of property and tag sets, we could
have a small map with dots that show where we have churches, on an article
about churches in Wikipedia. I'm sure more uses could be found.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Street Name

[Janko Mihelić]

You could also add name:etimology:wikidata=Q178265 ;)


2014-05-30 7:17 GMT+02:00 Clifford Snow :

> Thanks everyone for responding. Thankfully it wasn't abbreviated. I'll
> leave it as Edelweiss Weg.
>
> Clifford
>
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Marc Gemis  wrote:
>
>> FWIW, weg is also a Dutch word with the same meaning as the German one.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Clay Smalley 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Weg" is German, approximately means "way." It's right as it is, no
>>> abbreviation.
>>>
>>> Funny though that it's outside of the German Sprachraum. Is Leavenworth
>>> a town with a lot of German heritage?
>>> On May 29, 2014 4:37 PM, "Clifford Snow" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I need help with a street name. In Leavenworth, WA there is a street
 named "Edelweiss Weg" that I want to add. Is Weg an abbreviation for
 something? It will be tagged highway=service service=alley. Google
 translate doesn't help.

 If it is an abbreviation, should it be expanded as we usually do?

 Thanks from someone with a language deficit.

 @osm_seattle
 osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
 OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch

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>
>
> --
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Re: [OSM-talk] Organizational mapping policy

[Janko Mihelić]

I think we should look at those users not as organizational, or paid users,
but as users that have too steep a curve of added nodes over time. An
account registers, and immediately starts adding or modifying hundreds of
nodes. That could either be an import, a very zealous early mapper, or
someone who is paid by node. Either way, they should be controlled in some
way.

Maybe put a limit on number of added nodes over time with some function
that permits long-time mappers to add or modify as many nodes as they want,
and limit new users. Of course, show them a link to where you can say what
that account is doing, and get permission to add as many as you want even
though you are a new user.

Janko


2014-05-15 3:43 GMT+02:00 Paul Norman :

> > From: Mikel Maron [mailto:mikel_ma...@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 2:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Organizational mapping policy
> >
> > I have to say, my initial reaction to this proposal was that it was
> > heavy handed, unnecessarily punitive, over reaching, and not in the
> > spirit of OSM. A cure worse than the disease.
>
> To clarify (and I could have made this more explicit) there is *not* a
> proposed policy here.
>
> The DWG is considering if it is necessary to issue guidelines, it is not
> decided that something needs to be issued or the contents of anything
> we'd issue. The items listed are possible requirements and possible
> covered activities only. It is extremely unlikely that any policy
> resulting from this will include all the possible requirements and cover
> all the possible activities. I'm personally against some of the
> requirements listed as possibilities.
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] New ITO electricity distribution map

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-04-30 20:39 GMT+02:00 Ole Nielsen :

>
> Substation names are rendered at zoom 16+. Maybe also displaying the name
> at z15 would be ok but lower than that I'm afraid the map is going to get
> too cluttered. I agree that city labels should be suppressed at low zooms.
> It looks ugly otherwise.
>

Display names of >380kV substations on zoom 7+. Names of >220kV on zoom 9+.
>110kV on 11+. And so on. Along with the labels, render the substations
with a thick border, so they look like a dot on low zooms.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] New ITO electricity distribution map

[Janko Mihelić]

Where do I add my suggestions? I like the new map look, but I would like
substation and plant labels more than city labels. Bigger the voltage of a
substation, bigger the label.


2014-04-30 13:49 GMT+02:00 François Lacombe <
francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu>:

> Hi,
>
> ITOWorld power & communication maps have been updated and are now online,
> as a result of the feedback I gave to their support team.
>
> Electricity Distribution map is now almost complete.
>
> http://www.itoworld.com/map/4?lon=2.51848&lat=48.80986&zoom=10&open_sidebar=map_key&fullscreen=true
>
> The main point was to deal with power substation inside stuff and pole
> hosted features.
>
> http://www.itoworld.com/map/4?lon=5.80635&lat=46.05588&zoom=17&fullscreen=true
>
> http://www.itoworld.com/map/4?lon=6.19542&lat=46.07335&zoom=14&fullscreen=true
>
> The map appearance will continuously be improved as long as proposals get
> accepted.
> Almost all mapped power=* features can be seen worldwide on this map, even
> if it's not always the case (and doesn't have to be) on the main slippy map.
>
> I want to thank them for time and resources investment. Everyone
> contribution get a lot of value through it.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> *François Lacombe*
>
> francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu
> http://www.infos-reseaux.com
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Menufy.com added hundrets of stores with payment:bitcoin=yes, which don't accept Bitcoin

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-04-30 6:56 GMT+02:00 Yves :

> Then the bitcoin aspect is more a tagging issue: they accept bitcoin
> through menufy.com only.
>

This is bad mapping. If they really need that information in there, I'd
suggest payment:menufy=yes, and then ask the Coinmap maker to show those
markers too.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] High res DigitalGlobe imagery open for tracing through Mapbox Satellite

[Janko Mihelić]

This is great news. I think the database is getting a Mapbox Satellite boom
in the next few months. Thanks guys for everything.

Janko


2014-04-10 16:56 GMT+02:00 Alex Barth :

> Effective immediately the Mapbox Satellite option in iD and JOSM is 100%
> open for tracing in OpenStreetMap, including all our high resolution
> DigitalGlobe imagery. This is full coverage down to zoom level 19 imagery
> in the US + Western Europe and world wide to zoom level 17.
>
> To use this imagery select "Mapbox Satellite" from the imagery menu in iD
> on the web or in JOSM. Mapbox Satellite is open for tracing in
> OpenStreetMap in general and not tied to a specific editor, so if you would
> like to add Mapbox Satellite to another OpenStreetMap editor you are
> welcome to do so.
>
> Big props to Kevin Bullock (cc'ed) and our friends at DigitalGlobe - it's
> fantastic working with good people who see wins of working with
> OpenStreetMap.
>
> Alex
>
> PS - on an existing installation of JOSM you'll have to refresh your
> imagery menu like so: http://cl.ly/image/383O2L0t431s
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] new mailing list request - OSM outdoor/natural phenomena mapping

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-03-05 15:06 GMT+01:00 Pieren :

>
> The transit tagging schema is universally known as a success story ...
>

It will become a success when the first public transport router comes up.
Until then, there is basically no use for it.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] new mailing list request - OSM outdoor/natural phenomena mapping

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-03-05 13:30 GMT+01:00 Christoph Hormann :

>
> ..there are currently no thematic mapping related lists at all
> so it seems somewhat odd to separate specifically these subjects.
>

There is one, 
talk-transit.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Not attaching polygons to roads

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-03-03 13:19 GMT+01:00 moltonel 3x Combo :

>
> The disambiguating word is "initially". I explicitly say that
> separating nodes is an improvement. I'm trying to make it clear that
> "glued vs separate" is a "good vs better" issue, not a "wrong vs
> right" one.
>

So if someone starts gluing separated nodes, she is making the data worse,
and we can be mad?

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Not attaching polygons to roads

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-02-28 9:42 GMT+01:00 Christian Quest :

> Instead of a "rule", promote this as a best-practice or a guideline...
> that's more in the OSM open spirit.
>


> Something like Validation layer in JOSM.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Not attaching polygons to roads

[Janko Mihelić]

I think we can divide features to virtual and physical features.

Virtual: highway centerlines, waterway centerlines, administrative borders,
industrial and residental landuse, parks
Physical: riverbanks, buildings, meadows, forests, farm fields

Can we make a rule to never share points between these two groups?

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] How to Tag Closed Airport

[Janko Mihelić]

2014-02-27 16:32 GMT+01:00 Michael Collinson :

> One thing to consider is adding some sort of subsidiary tags, such as
> suggested, add closed to the name, but leave the main aeroway tagged for a
> few years. If an airport suddenly disappears from normal map rendering
> there is a natural assumption by map users that OpenStreetMap is in error.
>  I have no strong views on the "correctness" of that, but it is pragmatic.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/86784991  Stockholm-Barkarby flygplats
> (Nedlagd)
>
> Mike


I don't like this practice. You are adding several incorrect statements
(wrong name of the former airport, and the fact that there is no airport)
because some people are going to be confused by the fact that an airport
has disappeared. So if someone runs a script to see how many airports there
are in the US, they are going to get a wrong number.

A classical case of mapping for the renderer, because if the renderer
rendered disused:aeroway=airport, this wouldn't be an issue.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Details about wooded belt in Saratov Oblast?

[Janko Mihelić]

2014/1/24 Ilya Zverev 

> It is not vandalism, but selectively mapped farm lands. There are too many
> farms, and a mapper chose to draw only those that form the letter. There
> have been such cases in other resions, and mappers generally don't object
> to such "art", considering anyone can map more farmlands to erase a symbol.
>

 This is one version of guerilla
mapping.
Enemy mapper has invaded your territory and gave you more work.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Details about wooded belt in Saratov Oblast?

[Janko Mihelić]

2014/1/24 Pavol Rusnak 

>
> Isn't that because of the Oil Pipeline?
>
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Oil_pipelines_in_Europe.png
>
>
> (that's just a very wild guess, I am not from Russia :-))
>
>
No pipelines there in OSM, although there are some gas pipelines in the
neighborhood.

http://www.itoworld.com/map/220?lon=50.72056&lat=52.89227&zoom=9&fullscreen=true
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Corine Land Cover?

[Janko Mihelić]

2014/1/13 Martin Koppenhoefer 

>
> legal issues aside my concern is that Corine Data is not suitable
> technically for OSM: the resolution is too low and not compatible with the
> rest of our data.
>

I agree. Importing Corine is a big mistake for any OSM community. The best
way to use Corine is to make a rendered Corine layer, and then use that to
help with mapping.

I've seen a Corine import in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and the data is awful.
Not only that, it makes mapping a nightmare for any beginner.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Admin borders/separate database

[Janko Mihelić]

If someone thinks borders should be in a different database, they should
just make the database. If that is the superior solution, data consumers
will pick it up and start using that one over the existing one. I think
having a few parallel databases would make a nice little ecosystem.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Admin borders/separate database

[Janko Mihelić]

2013/11/5 Simon Poole 

>
> Two remarks:
>
> - I do not see how filters in editors do anything more to this issue
> than make it worse, particularly in the case when the border has been
> merged with an other object. Do you make the object immutable? Or do you
> simply hide the fact that you are now potentially breaking something (as
> JOSM does)?
>

A filter can help only with a second feature, and that is prohibition of
merging certain groups of tags. For example, prohibit connecting
"boundary=administrative" with anything that is not also
"boundary=administrative". That is one way of creating layers within the
same database. The next step is an entirely different database.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Admin borders/separate database

[Janko Mihelić]

2013/11/5 Richard Welty 

>  combined with
> the fact that it will be impossible to glue border
> nodes to other features, will probably address 98 or
> 99% of the issues we see today.
>

The problem is, some admin borders are supposed to be glued to roads or
rivers, and they change when the flow of a road or river changes. How do
you deal with that?

Other than that, I like the idea of separating different kinds of data.
However, I wouldn't separate it that much. My idea was to prohibit gluing
some types of tags to other types, and then using filters to hide some
layers. But you can always justify gluing one type of tag to the other.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Launch of the portal GeoCameroon

[Janko Mihelić]

That is really a beautiful map, thanks for showing it to us. The level of
mapping in Yaoundé is astounding.

Janko


2013/11/3 Sob Willy-Franck 

>  GeoCameroun (www.geocameroun.cm) : THE free mapping portal product by
> citizens.
>
> GeoCameroun, first free Spatial Data Infrastructure (SDI) of Cameroon was
> inaugurated Wednesday, October 23. Supported by OpenStreetMap Cameroon
> Association, the project aims to bring together on a single platform all
> geographic information of the country: historical maps, modern maps, city
> maps, aerial photographs, administrative boundaries, POI ... Hosting and 
> maintenance
> of the portal are provided by SOGEFI a geomatics company newly installed in
> Cameroon.  The SDI consists of various components including the main
> portal available for free on the Internet: www.geocameroun.cm
>
> Contact: osmcamer...@gmail.com
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Timezones (was: Deleting data)

[Janko Mihelić]

2013/10/22 Bryce Nesbitt 

> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Johan C  wrote:
>
>> > Essentially what we need is the concept of layers.
>>
>
> I don't think we really need layers, but could use editors that are
> semantically aware of things like boundaries,
> and put them in the background until needed.
>
>
As far as I see, if we just prevent certain ways or nodes to share nodes
with others, that is as good as a layer. So if we say "boundary=* can only
share nodes with each other", then that is a layer. I think those rules are
better then inventing some arbitrary fixed layers.


Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Timezones (was: Deleting data)

[Janko Mihelić]

2013/10/19 Pieren 

>
> It's even easier to add the tag on existing countries relations. No
> need for extra ways, neither tagging on ways.
>

+1

Are there any timezones that don't follow country or some other
administrative borders?

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql multipolygon parsing

[Janko Mihelić]

2013/9/23 Pieren 

>
> -1
> Check cities with tens of thousands buildings. You will have sometime
> the building tag on ways, sometimes on relations. Having the tag
> always on the surrounding way is more consistent and easier to catch
> for everybody, including newcomers.
>
>
Not if they use iD. In iD multipolygons and areas are selected in the same
way, by clicking in the building.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Living with 'improvements'

[Janko Mihelić]

2013/9/2 Lester Caine :
> If the fix for this is to manually apply the national speed limit to every
> road, then OK, it's the first time anybody has suggested a fix and I'm
> willing to give it a try ...

It's useful to give the source of the maxspeed. So if you have a sign, just
put source:maxspeed=sign. If there is no sign, and source is the law, put
source:maxspeed=uk:urban for maximum speed in urban areas, and
source:maxspeed=uk:rural for rural areas. I don't know the laws in the UK.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed

That's the way we in Croatia mark maxspeed. That way if the default
maxspeed changes, it will be possible to change it automatically.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Living with 'improvements'

[Janko Mihelić]

Well, the A46 and A44 are trunk roads, and the Hinton road is an
unclassified road. Of course the router is going to think it's much
faster to go by trunk road. If you want to fix that, you'll have to
put in the maxspeed tags. Then the router will have enough information
to choose the better path.

Janko

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Re: [OSM-talk] Port Examples, Please? (Piers, Sand Piers, Sand Breaks, Port Areas small and large)

[Janko Mihelić]

Those two "piers" on the beach port are actually man_made=breakwater.
They are used to shelter the beach from winds and waves. I would map
them as an area, sharing the nodes of the coastline.

As for the beach, I would just draw an area around it, and tag it as a
natural=beach. Maybe someone could say that it is a big slipway, but I
wouldn't go so far.

Janko

2013/8/30 Alex Rollin :
> Hello,
>
> I am mapping a small fishing area.  The area has 2 beaches where they park
> boats, and then a small port with 2 piers.
>
> One of the beaches is protected by 2 sand piers.
>
> I ran into confusion when it came to the sand piers in the smaller beach
> port area, and then there's larger cement piers in the main port area.
>
> Can someone point me at some examples like this?  I'd like to see how others
> have tagged these kinds of areas.
>
> Main port : http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-6.98873/106.54131&layers=N
>
> Smaller beach port:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-6.95334/106.44109&layers=N
> --
> Alex
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM

[Janko Mihelić]

Track is used more and more for unpaved roads. Mapnik and other renderers
are probably a big reason, because they don't render
Surfaceand
Smoothness  tags. I
really don't know of any renderers that show these tags. I hope the new
openstreetmap-carto stylesheet will speed up fixing this problem.

BTW osrm.at is helping in this campaign, because it doesn't route through
tracks (although I'm not sure if it takes Surface and Smoothness tags into
account).

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

[Janko Mihelić]

Lets get back on track again, ID as default. If we stop nitpicking, I think
ID has pretty much all that Potlatch has. In addition to that, it doesn't
use non-free software, and is really much easier for beginners to use. For
me personaly, it's much more streamlined and faster to use. Try drawing a
few roads, and see how the options for tags just present themselves to you,
one or two clicks is often enough, whereas in P2 I always find myself  in
advanced mode, writing every single key and value.

I'm for the change. It will be a big initiative for doing more work on the
editor, and could bring more developers to the team.

It really is a brilliant peace of software.

Janko
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

[Janko Mihelić]

2013/8/20 Tom MacWright 

> In this case and others, we should keep in mind whether P2 or JOSM have
> safer or smarter behavior. Would they 'notice' that this new road segment
> has meaning? Put another way: iD will never prevent all mistakes, but does
> it prevent less than P2 and co? (in this case, I think the answer is "no")
>

JOSM and Potlatch show directly on the 'via' node that there is something
on a junction. That way an editor can see there is something that should
maybe be left alone. With ID it's less visible.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org

[Janko Mihelić]

2013/8/19 Martin Koppenhoefer 

>
>
> Relations are fragile and if they are almost hidden for the mapper a
> warning should be the minimal precaution (or alternatively don't let iD
> users do these kind of edits where relations are involved and would be
> damaged).
>

A turn restriction issue was opened on ID Github page 9 months ago, and I
commented about preserving existing turn restrictions 5 months ago:

https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues/224#issuecomment-14895836

I still think preserving existing relations should be a priority.

Janko
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