Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Hi, I would like to thank the programmers for the professional piece of software and for the founders of the iD project. And I would like to apologize for the oversceptic and rude style of some of the participants in this mailing list. Yours, Stefan 2013/5/25 Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com: RB writes: ID is a wonderful editor, simple and intuitive. Although I am mostly a JOSN user, I know at least 2 beginners who feel confident enough to edit the map since there is ID. Thanks very much for it. It is helping OSM a lot. This is ridiculous. I tried ID, and it didn't make my penis bigger OR harder, my breasts didn't get bigger, I didn't get six-pack abs, and I didn't get shaplier thighs in just six weeks. All it did was make it easy to edit OSM. What the hell is up with THAT?!?? I want my money back. MONEY BACK! -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Russ Nelson wrote: This is ridiculous. I tried ID, and it didn't make my penis bigger OR harder, my breasts didn't get bigger, I didn't get six-pack abs, and I didn't get shaplier thighs in just six weeks. You should submit an issue on github. I believe there's a Math.abs function in JS so the third issue should be fixable, at least. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5762613.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
The worst editor ewer. With this will result many damages and incompatibilities. From newbies ofcourse. Potlatch is the best blend for advanced users and for new ones with alot of info and very friendly interface. This is a joke. Take it down before destroyed the existent maps with alot of hard work on them! -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5760219.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
2013/5/8 razor74 radulescu.raz...@gmail.com The worst editor ewer. With this will result many damages and incompatibilities. From newbies ofcourse. Potlatch is the best blend for advanced users and for new ones with alot of info and very friendly interface. This is a joke. Take it down before destroyed the existent maps with alot of hard work on them! while I don't agree with the overall judgement (worst ever), I agree that with the recent discoveries (silent tag removal of important tags like highway) it probably is premature to offer iD to newbies for editing. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
I don't regularly use iD myself (JOSM user), but, on behalf of its developers: negative comments like this are unhelpful and denigrate the vast amount of hard work that has gone into producing the editor. If you don't like it, complain about it to your friends in private, change the code, but do not slag it off on a public mailing list! Nick -razor74 radulescu.raz...@gmail.com wrote: - To: talk@openstreetmap.org From: razor74 radulescu.raz...@gmail.com Date: 24/05/2013 09:36AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap The worst editor ewer. With this will result many damages and incompatibilities. From newbies ofcourse. Potlatch is the best blend for advanced users and for new ones with alot of info and very friendly interface. This is a joke. Take it down before destroyed the existent maps with alot of hard work on them! -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5760219.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Am 08.05.2013 17:10, schrieb razor74: The worst editor ewer. There is still (deleted) data in the database from an editor that got lat/lon confused what was the name again JOSM Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
ID is a wonderful editor, simple and intuitive. Although I am mostly a JOSN user, I know at least 2 beginners who feel confident enough to edit the map since there is ID. Thanks very much for it. It is helping OSM a lot. Ruben Le 24 mai 2013 15:05, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch a écrit : Am 08.05.2013 17:10, schrieb razor74: The worst editor ewer. There is still (deleted) data in the database from an editor that got lat/lon confused what was the name again JOSM Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
As one of people who raised issue of iD being slow on Firefox more than week ago, I must say that I tested it right now on Firefox 20 (on same system, just Firefox upgrade) and it is much much faster. Thanks for improvements to iD dev team and keep up good work! :) Respectfully, Peteris Krisjanis. 2013/5/24 RB tan...@gmail.com ID is a wonderful editor, simple and intuitive. Although I am mostly a JOSN user, I know at least 2 beginners who feel confident enough to edit the map since there is ID. Thanks very much for it. It is helping OSM a lot. Ruben Le 24 mai 2013 15:05, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch a écrit : Am 08.05.2013 17:10, schrieb razor74: The worst editor ewer. There is still (deleted) data in the database from an editor that got lat/lon confused what was the name again JOSM Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- mortigi tempo Pēteris Krišjānis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 05/24/2013 06:15 AM, Nick Whitelegg wrote: I don't regularly use iD myself (JOSM user), but, on behalf of its developers: negative comments like this are unhelpful and denigrate the vast amount of hard work that has gone into producing the editor. If you don't like it, complain about it to your friends in private, change the code, but do not slag it off on a public mailing list! Nick -razor74 radulescu.raz...@gmail.com wrote: - To: talk@openstreetmap.org From: razor74 radulescu.raz...@gmail.com Date: 24/05/2013 09:36AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap The worst editor ewer. With this will result many damages and incompatibilities. From newbies ofcourse. Potlatch is the best blend for advanced users and for new ones with alot of info and very friendly interface. This is a joke. Take it down before destroyed the existent maps with alot of hard work on them! -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5760219.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk So, you feel that non-programmers, who have justified reasons to complain about the design, such as the silent removal of highway tags, should not be able to let their opinion of the bad design be made known? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:29 PM, John F. Eldredge So, you feel that non-programmers, who have justified reasons to complain about the design, such as the silent removal of highway tags, should not be able to let their opinion of the bad design be made known? That's what programmers love (I'm one) : admire my work or provide patches or shut up ;-) Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 24/05/2013 12:15, Nick Whitelegg wrote: I don't regularly use iD myself (JOSM user), but, on behalf of its developers: negative comments like this are unhelpful and denigrate the vast amount of hard work that has gone into producing the editor. If you don't like it, complain about it to your friends in private, change the code, but do not slag it off on a public mailing list! You think the developers are above criticism? A public forum is *exactly* where they should be aired. The creators came here said look what we've made, isn't it fantastic some of us have pointed out that, actually, no it isn't that good. For them to say OK, we've made a mistake, why don't you fix it? is arrogant. Developers should not be put on pedestals. As has been pointed out there's a few reasons why it not good enough to be the default editor. Another being it's lack of relation information which will lead to them being split/deleted. There needs to be, at least, some kind of warning note that a selected way contains a relation. The panning/background refresh speed has improved slightly in Firefox, but not sure if that's Id's or FF's doing. I think it needs pointing out, yet again, that we are all volunteers, all putting in time effort for the good of the project. Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 24/05/2013 12:15, Nick Whitelegg wrote: I don't regularly use iD myself (JOSM user), but, on behalf of its developers: negative comments like this are unhelpful and denigrate the vast amount of hard work that has gone into producing the editor. If you don't like it, complain about it to your friends in private, change the code, but do not slag it off on a public mailing list! You think the developers are above criticism? A public forum is *exactly* where they should be aired. The creators came here said look what we've made, isn't it fantastic some of us have pointed out that, actually, no it isn't that good. For them to say OK, we've made a mistake, why don't you fix it? is arrogant. Developers should not be put on pedestals. As has been pointed out there's a few reasons why it not good enough to be the default editor. Another being it's lack of relation information which will lead to them being split/deleted. There needs to be, at least, some kind of warning note that a selected way contains a relation. The panning/background refresh speed has improved slightly in Firefox, but not sure if that's Id's or FF's doing. I think it needs pointing out, yet again, that we are all volunteers, all putting in time effort for the good of the project. There is a difference between constructive criticism and This is the worst thing ever! which is both unhelpful and objectively false. Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: You think the developers are above criticism? They shouldn't be, but there's no need to criticize the developers for what's going on here. The problems with iD so far aren't fundamental fatal flaws, but simply bugs or missing features that everyone agrees should be fixed (and work is underway). For them to say OK, we've made a mistake, why don't you fix it? is arrogant. Developers should not be put on pedestals. The iD developers are not saying that. They are saying help us fix these issues with detailed bug reports and constructive discussions. A descriptive report on the issue tracker is *infinitely more* productive than inflammatory comments here. If you look at the iD issue tracker, you'll see the developers have done a wonderful job fixing bugs that get reported. They have consistently kept the closed-open ratio of issues at about 10:1 or better throughout development (and we're currently coming up on 1400 closed issues). Compared to the average free software project this is pretty amazing. So pedestals, no. But I do think that deserves some applause. I think it needs pointing out, yet again, that we are all volunteers, all putting in time effort for the good of the project. Right. So avoiding behaviour and comments that might drive away hard-working and well-meaning volunteers is probably a good plan. -- AJ Ashton ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
To reply to both yours and Dave F's post in one, as I've got the same comment: *Constructive* criticism is *absolutely fine*. No problem whatsoever to politely point out flaws and areas for improvement. I have issues, I am afraid, with disrespectful terms in criticism, and I've said this before. Terms like a joke IMO, I'm afraid, come across to me as rude. Polite and constructive criticism (I believe that iD has a few flaws where the usability could be improved: these are (list) is perfectly fine. I just believe more respect is due to open-source developers, as a general point. People like the iD developers and others work hard in their own time, for no pay. I'm just asking for politeness, that's all. Not a veto of criticism. Nick -John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: - To: talk@openstreetmap.org From: John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com Date: 24/05/2013 02:34PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap On 05/24/2013 06:15 AM, Nick Whitelegg wrote: I don't regularly use iD myself (JOSM user), but, on behalf of its developers: negative comments like this are unhelpful and denigrate the vast amount of hard work that has gone into producing the editor. If you don't like it, complain about it to your friends in private, change the code, but do not slag it off on a public mailing list! Nick -razor74 radulescu.raz...@gmail.com wrote: - To: talk@openstreetmap.org From: razor74 radulescu.raz...@gmail.com Date: 24/05/2013 09:36AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap The worst editor ewer. With this will result many damages and incompatibilities. From newbies ofcourse. Potlatch is the best blend for advanced users and for new ones with alot of info and very friendly interface. This is a joke. Take it down before destroyed the existent maps with alot of hard work on them! -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5760219.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk So, you feel that non-programmers, who have justified reasons to complain about the design, such as the silent removal of highway tags, should not be able to let their opinion of the bad design be made known? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
+1. Amen to that ;-) Nick -Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: - From: Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com Date: 24/05/2013 04:07PM Cc: OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 24/05/2013 12:15, Nick Whitelegg wrote: I don't regularly use iD myself (JOSM user), but, on behalf of its developers: negative comments like this are unhelpful and denigrate the vast amount of hard work that has gone into producing the editor. If you don't like it, complain about it to your friends in private, change the code, but do not slag it off on a public mailing list! You think the developers are above criticism? A public forum is *exactly* where they should be aired. The creators came here said look what we've made, isn't it fantastic some of us have pointed out that, actually, no it isn't that good. For them to say OK, we've made a mistake, why don't you fix it? is arrogant. Developers should not be put on pedestals. As has been pointed out there's a few reasons why it not good enough to be the default editor. Another being it's lack of relation information which will lead to them being split/deleted. There needs to be, at least, some kind of warning note that a selected way contains a relation. The panning/background refresh speed has improved slightly in Firefox, but not sure if that's Id's or FF's doing. I think it needs pointing out, yet again, that we are all volunteers, all putting in time effort for the good of the project. There is a difference between constructive criticism and This is the worst thing ever! which is both unhelpful and objectively false. Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:29 PM, John F. Eldredge So, you feel that non-programmers, who have justified reasons to complain about the design, such as the silent removal of highway tags, should not be able to let their opinion of the bad design be made known? That's what programmers love (I'm one) : admire my work or provide patches or shut up ;-) Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk I also am a programmer, and it helps to have feedback from the users when they find a bug or design flaw. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
RB writes: ID is a wonderful editor, simple and intuitive. Although I am mostly a JOSN user, I know at least 2 beginners who feel confident enough to edit the map since there is ID. Thanks very much for it. It is helping OSM a lot. This is ridiculous. I tried ID, and it didn't make my penis bigger OR harder, my breasts didn't get bigger, I didn't get six-pack abs, and I didn't get shaplier thighs in just six weeks. All it did was make it easy to edit OSM. What the hell is up with THAT?!?? I want my money back. MONEY BACK! -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Alex Barth wrote: Please report any issues you find with iD directly to the issue queue [2]. As always, reproducible bug descriptions and specific feature requests are more than welcome. I think part of the problem here is/was that there are many support lists covering packages used by sections of the project, and some 'country' groups (naming no names) impose rules which are discussed locally but not opened to the more general user base. An announcement here that 'X' is available was the right start, but there needed to be a more open discussion on changing the core tool suite to identify IF 'X' should be adopted as a default? That discussion should take place here? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Dave, everyone If you have an issue with moderation, address it directly to moderat...@openstreetmap.org. -Mikel * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap On 14/05/2013 21:05, Mikel Maron wrote: Um, yea, I'm going to start moderating individuals. I'm sure github is there for any further technical bug reports. Off topic: I'm extremely surprised partially annoyed by your attempt at sudden censure. Lots of threads have been much more vitriolic gone much further off course than this one. It's appears some are embarrassed about the situation with ID want to sweep it under the carpet. Ironic of Kathleen to tell others to stop commenting, yet can't resisting putting her own put of view. Back on topic: ID was created to encourage new users to easily edit specifically to continue to edit. The FF situation will not promote that. I feel the same about github - yet another password restricted site to sign upto. It puts people off. This forum is the best place to discuss any OSM subject, but specifically for the new editor to find out if things are actual bugs or a misunderstanding by the end user. Is there any initial data on new ID users behaviour? Are repeat editing or a one-off just adding their house/local shop etc? Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Dave F. wrote Off topic: I'm extremely surprised partially annoyed by your attempt at sudden censure. Lots of threads have been much more vitriolic gone much further off course than this one. It's appears some are embarrassed about the situation with ID want to sweep it under the carpet. [...] Back on topic: ID was created to encourage new users to easily edit specifically to continue to edit. The FF situation will not promote that. I feel the same about github - yet another password restricted site to sign upto. It puts people off. This forum is the best place to discuss any OSM subject, but specifically for the new editor to find out if things are actual bugs or a misunderstanding by the end user. +1 to both points bye, Nop -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5761211.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
So... This thread went on some tangents, but nevertheless, thank you for your feedback. John Firebaugh just posted a new roadmap for the next release of iD [1] and it focuses on the key issues discussed here: relations support and suboptimal performance on Firefox. Please report any issues you find with iD directly to the issue queue [2]. As always, reproducible bug descriptions and specific feature requests are more than welcome. Alex [1] https://github.com/systemed/iD/wiki/1.1-Roadmap [2] https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 5:05 PM, NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote: Dave F. wrote Off topic: I'm extremely surprised partially annoyed by your attempt at sudden censure. Lots of threads have been much more vitriolic gone much further off course than this one. It's appears some are embarrassed about the situation with ID want to sweep it under the carpet. [...] Back on topic: ID was created to encourage new users to easily edit specifically to continue to edit. The FF situation will not promote that. I feel the same about github - yet another password restricted site to sign upto. It puts people off. This forum is the best place to discuss any OSM subject, but specifically for the new editor to find out if things are actual bugs or a misunderstanding by the end user. +1 to both points bye, Nop -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5761211.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 12 May 2013, at 18:41, Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl wrote: On 05/12/2013 03:41 PM, Tom Hughes wrote: No, but I am saying that we have a history of not necessarily allowing the complaints of the people creating crazily complicated systems of relations to have a veto on what editors are or are not allowed to do. Simple cycle and hiking route relations are not crazily complicated and a very visible part of the openstreetmap ecosystem. If something breaks them silently when doing normal editing, then that is not something that should simply be ignored. What I think is funny though, is that when I fixed some routes yesterday, the biggest errors were created by JOSM users. If you work on a route and use the download incomplete members option. JOSM doesn't warn you when splitting or merging roads outside of the initially loaded bounding box. So you can damage other routes without any warning. Yes, this actually happens. Maybe the continuous download plugin should be installed and enabled by default in JOSM (with some tweaks to not download massive areas when zoomed out) to get around this issue? Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 14/05/2013 00:25, Janko Mihelić wrote: Officialy releasing projects like these moves the web forward. It comes at a cost, but if nobody ever used HTML vector graphics, browsers would never perfect it. I think this is a big step for OSM as well as the HTML standard. Using the end user's inconvenience to strong arm/embarrass the likes of Mozilla into making changes is not the way to design software. This should have been sorted out in Beta, or, as it appears to be a well known problem - Alpha. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Dave F. wrote: On 08/05/2013 14:37, Douglas Musaazi wrote: Great work!! let's go ahead and use it. I'd love to but it's very sluggish while dragging in latest FF, the walk-through help keeps hanging the pop-ups appear over the area I want to edit One advantage of it being slower than P2 would be is that new mappers have to zoom in more, which means more accurate mapping! It's a bit early to tell yet, of course, but from looking at the new mapper first edits in England over the last few days, iD users seem to be making fewer errors than P2 ones and drawing ways more accurately. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On Tuesday 14 May 2013, Dave F. wrote: Using the end user's inconvenience to strong arm/embarrass the likes of Mozilla into making changes is not the way to design software. This should have been sorted out in Beta, or, as it appears to be a well known problem - Alpha. We would be alpha all the way into 2016 then. Really, we've been told that HTML5 SVG are taking over vector graphics for the web for nearly 5 years now. There are still painful holes in the implementations. Without things like iD driving things forward browser vendors will have little reason to improve the situation. There's a limit to how long we can sit back and ooh and aah at new browser developments without ever actually daring to use them. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 14 May 2013 11:43, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: We would be alpha all the way into 2016 then. Really, we've been told that HTML5 SVG are taking over vector graphics for the web for nearly 5 years now. There are still painful holes in the implementations. Without things like iD driving things forward browser vendors will have little reason to improve the situation. There's a limit to how long we can sit back and ooh and aah at new browser developments without ever actually daring to use them. Lots of developers make the mistake of waiting for users to have a shitty experience and then saying, Hey, you should have used it on a different platform, and they then wonder why they get a bunch of 1-star reviews and unhappy users. I would imagine that most OSMers would have (at least) Firefox and Chrome/Chromium installed. If iD doesn't work so well on Firefox yet then why not put up a dialog at the start of a session on Firefox telling them they would be better off using Chrome? Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 14/05/13 13:14, Kevin Peat wrote: I would imagine that most OSMers would have (at least) Firefox and Chrome/Chromium installed. If iD doesn't work so well on Firefox yet then why not put up a dialog at the start of a session on Firefox telling them they would be better off using Chrome? Because that makes for an appalling user experience? If we want to make it the default before FF seems to be up to the job then we'll just make FF fall back to PL2 as we will already be doing for IE. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Tom Hughes wrote: I would imagine that most OSMers would have (at least) Firefox and Chrome/Chromium installed. If iD doesn't work so well on Firefox yet then why not put up a dialog at the start of a session on Firefox telling them they would be better off using Chrome? Because that makes for an appalling user experience? If we want to make it the default before FF seems to be up to the job then we'll just make FF fall back to PL2 as we will already be doing for IE. And some of us find the conditions G$ put on chrome is a reason NOT to have anything to do with it. It's bad enough the pressure to change for spurious reasons without having OPEN projects like OSM making the same demands :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
A fallback to flash is not the best option for mobiles without flash support, for operating systems without non-free software (like... flash). And: Flash often is a performance killer itself. Less for the single flash movie inside the browser, but for the overall operating system. This it not in particular a Potlatch issue (Potlatch is written great in flash, I would say), but often due to hundrets of ad banners with complex animations, movies and/or sound. Therefore a fallback to flash, suggesting that this is running better than iD might be the wrong way. I agree (partly) that it's better to show less warnings etc. to the user, but instead of falling back to P2, I would provide the user the choice: Hey, you try iD in Firefox 21. This might be slow due to browser limitations yet. What do you want to do? [use Potlatch2 instead] [use a different browser] [use JOSM] [try iD, even if it's slow] regards Peter Am 14.05.2013 14:29, schrieb Tom Hughes: On 14/05/13 13:14, Kevin Peat wrote: I would imagine that most OSMers would have (at least) Firefox and Chrome/Chromium installed. If iD doesn't work so well on Firefox yet then why not put up a dialog at the start of a session on Firefox telling them they would be better off using Chrome? Because that makes for an appalling user experience? If we want to make it the default before FF seems to be up to the job then we'll just make FF fall back to PL2 as we will already be doing for IE. Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 14 May 2013 13:29, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 14/05/13 13:14, Kevin Peat wrote: I would imagine that most OSMers would have (at least) Firefox and Chrome/Chromium installed. If iD doesn't work so well on Firefox yet then why not put up a dialog at the start of a session on Firefox telling them they would be better off using Chrome? Because that makes for an appalling user experience? If we want to make it the default before FF seems to be up to the job then we'll just make FF fall back to PL2 as we will already be doing for IE. Prior to this thread I had tried to run iD on Firefox and decided it was way too laggy to use. If I wasn't subscribed to this list I would never try it again. That is my idea of a poor user experience. Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: If we want to make it the default before FF seems to be up to the job then we'll just make FF fall back to PL2 as we will already be doing for IE. I think it's the best solution. Newcomers are very sensitive to any issue on their first contact with an OSM editor. Risk is that they leave the project for a long time. A good first experiment with old P2 is better than a bad one with the new iD. And this is temporary anyway. I'm sure that FF and iD developers will fix quickly the issue. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 14/05/13 13:48, Peter Wendorff wrote: A fallback to flash is not the best option for mobiles without flash support, for operating systems without non-free software (like... flash). And: Flash often is a performance killer itself. Less for the single flash movie inside the browser, but for the overall operating system. It's not a fallback to flash it's a fallback to the status quo. The point being that defaulting to a flash based editor has apparently been fine for the last six years so there is no sudden urgent need to change that. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 14 May 2013 13:36, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: And some of us find the conditions G$ put on chrome is a reason NOT to have anything to do with it. It's bad enough the pressure to change for spurious reasons without having OPEN projects like OSM making the same demands :( Use Chromium then, seems to work well with iD. Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Kevin Peat wrote: On 14 May 2013 13:36, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: And some of us find the conditions G$ put on chrome is a reason NOT to have anything to do with it. It's bad enough the pressure to change for spurious reasons without having OPEN projects like OSM making the same demands :( Use Chromium then, seems to work well with iD. But I'm have been more than happy with seamonkey for many years so why would I switch to something else just because someone thinks they know better :( When they get proper email support back ... there may be a reason to change. The problem here is that there are now too many browsers and none as yet follow the latest 'standards' fully, while many of us are still using set-ups that we are more than happy with and simply have no reason to change. iD needs to mature and get a better user base before it can be CONSIDERED to be made the default! We know the limitations of P2, can handle them and support new users. Learning something new takes time which many of us do not have spare. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Lester, On 14 May 2013 14:30, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: But I'm have been more than happy with seamonkey for many years so why would I switch to something else just because someone thinks they know better :( When they get proper email support back ... there may be a reason to change. The problem here is that there are now too many browsers and none as yet follow the latest 'standards' fully, while many of us are still using set-ups that we are more than happy with and simply have no reason to change. iD needs to mature and get a better user base before it can be CONSIDERED to be made the default! We know the limitations of P2, can handle them and support new users. Learning something new takes time which many of us do not have spare. Well that is up to you but you can't expect everyone else to stay in the 90's. I don't miss Steve Jobs very much but one useful thing he did was to kill flash. Someone buying an iPad or a current Android tablet doesn't have the ability to use flash and Linux support has been discontinued so I think it's great that OSM is moving away from a flash based editor. Also, if you dislike Google that much you probably shouldn't use Seamonkey/Firefox as they have been by far the largest backer of the Firefox project for years. Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
It might be a good idea to give user a choice to select an editor he wants, but add some recommendations based on browser/platform. Something like putting big red Recommended label near iD on Chrome or on systems without flash player installed, and the same label to P2 on Firefox, IE, Opera and the like. This way new users who do not know what to choose will have some guidance and get the best (and fast) user experience, and experienced users will choose what they like best. Yes, from my experience Opera shows iD very slowly compared to Potlach2 (and iD on Chrome on the same machine). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Hey everybody Moderation pause. I think we've exhausted the points of view on browsers and iD, the points are registered, and are drifting pretty off topic. Thanks Mikel Moderators * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Kevin Peat k...@k3v.eu To: Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk Cc: OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap Lester, On 14 May 2013 14:30, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: But I'm have been more than happy with seamonkey for many years so why would I switch to something else just because someone thinks they know better :( When they get proper email support back ... there may be a reason to change. The problem here is that there are now too many browsers and none as yet follow the latest 'standards' fully, while many of us are still using set-ups that we are more than happy with and simply have no reason to change. iD needs to mature and get a better user base before it can be CONSIDERED to be made the default! We know the limitations of P2, can handle them and support new users. Learning something new takes time which many of us do not have spare. Well that is up to you but you can't expect everyone else to stay in the 90's. I don't miss Steve Jobs very much but one useful thing he did was to kill flash. Someone buying an iPad or a current Android tablet doesn't have the ability to use flash and Linux support has been discontinued so I think it's great that OSM is moving away from a flash based editor. Also, if you dislike Google that much you probably shouldn't use Seamonkey/Firefox as they have been by far the largest backer of the Firefox project for years. Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On Tuesday 14 May 2013, Tom Hughes wrote: On 14/05/13 13:14, Kevin Peat wrote: I would imagine that most OSMers would have (at least) Firefox and Chrome/Chromium installed. If iD doesn't work so well on Firefox yet then why not put up a dialog at the start of a session on Firefox telling them they would be better off using Chrome? Because that makes for an appalling user experience? If we want to make it the default before FF seems to be up to the job then we'll just make FF fall back to PL2 as we will already be doing for IE. For what it's worth it's not quite such a clear case as only one browser being up to the job. In the svg-based webapp I'm working on at the moment, I find it to be chrome having the performance problems and FF coping ok. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Also, let's not all assume that performance under FF is so much better for PL2. I've found that while iD is indeed slower on FF than on Chrome, it's still faster than PL2 is on my laptop. The issues that Firefox has with iD are the same issues Firefox has with Leaflet when using vector graphics. If you look at a recent map I made, you see what I'm talking about: http://www.emacsen.net/nyheatmap/map2.html The performance of this map under Firefox is less than good, but under Chrome, it's just fine. I use FF as my main browser but am aware of this limitation of the browser. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Hi Folks, I'm going to repeat Mikel and gently encourage us to close out the conversation on Firefox and browsers in general. These certainly aren't invalid points, but I think your points have been made and heard. For my own part, I've really enjoyed using iD-- it's been much more accessible than P2 or JOSM for me personally, and it's made me more eager to show my friends OSM and how to edit it. That's a pretty big win in my book. Thanks iD team for your hard work, and thanks everyone else for testing it so thoroughly! I'm sure the devs appreciate the feedback! On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Also, let's not all assume that performance under FF is so much better for PL2. I've found that while iD is indeed slower on FF than on Chrome, it's still faster than PL2 is on my laptop. The issues that Firefox has with iD are the same issues Firefox has with Leaflet when using vector graphics. If you look at a recent map I made, you see what I'm talking about: http://www.emacsen.net/nyheatmap/map2.html The performance of this map under Firefox is less than good, but under Chrome, it's just fine. I use FF as my main browser but am aware of this limitation of the browser. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Dave F. schrieb: I'd love to but it's very sluggish while dragging in latest FF This is at least partially a Firefox issue, actually, and something that will need to be worked on there, see the investigations and explanations in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=837985 (two of the most distinguished Mozilla developers have weighed in there, I hope that it will get some attention soon). Robert Kaiser ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
There are ongoing discussions in the German boards about iD easily and/or inadvertently breaking data [1]. It appears to run with very bad performance in FF and not at all in IE [2]. This issues should probably better be resolved before making it the default editor. bye, Nop -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5760653.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
The missing sources to my last mail [1] http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/ID-Editor-zerstort-mit-einem-Klick-tagelange-Arbeit-td5760346.html [2] http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=21102 -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5760655.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Hi! Tom Hughes-3 wrote There are ongoing discussions in the German boards about iD easily and/or inadvertently breaking data [1]. Just like they've been saying about Potlatch for the last N years you mean? Are you implying that any comments on iD are to be discarded indiscriminately because there was another discussion about another editor at another time? But to answer your question: No, iD seems to be worse. :-) Tom Hughes-3 wrote It appears to run with very bad performance in FF and not at all in IE [2]. The pending pull request to make it the default deliberately leaves Potlatch as the default for IE. And what's the default for FF? Tom Hughes-3 wrote We're not complete idiots you know... I shall not be the judge of that... :-) bye, Nop -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760198p5760659.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Tom Hughes wrote: The pending pull request to make it the default deliberately leaves Potlatch as the default for IE. We're not complete idiots you know... So how do we leave potlatch as a default on other browsers? A consensus on this sort of impositions wou1d be nice ... having to find one's way around a new editor when one is used to the idiosyncrasies of the existing one is just going to mean I don't bother pushing quick fixes at all ... -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Hi, On 12.05.2013 14:24, NopMap wrote: There are ongoing discussions in the German boards about iD easily and/or inadvertently breaking data [1]. Just like they've been saying about Potlatch for the last N years you mean? Are you implying that any comments on iD are to be discarded indiscriminately because there was another discussion about another editor at another time? On the whole, I don't think the project has benefited from the anti Potlatch spirit that was prevalent especially in the German community. (I think the situation has markedly improved with P2.) New users started out with Potlatch and were occasionally treated like imbeciles because they used that editor - especially in the beginning when the Potlatch feature set (and the priorities in fixing Potlatch bugs on the part of the authors) didn't exactly meet the expectations of the German community. (Yes, I know, they didn't do much to fix things either.) I would like to avoid repeating this with iD. I would expect from the German community a certain willingness to accept that not every editor must be feature complete. It is perfectly ok if certain operations are outside the reach of a mapper using iD, and we shouldn't belittle iD or the people using it because of such legitimate design decisions. At the same time, if there should really be situations where even a diligent newcomer can cause significant breakage with iD without even noticing, then that should definitely be treated as a show stopper for making iD the default editor - not because a little damage is caused to our data, but because the new mapper will have a terrible experience when after his first few steps of contributing to OSM they already get messages telling them that they broke something. I haven't followed the discussion and I don't know just how arcane the issues are that people have with iD. I remember that when Potlatch was introduced, the overarching goal was a slick UI. More than once Richard has joked about the multitude of popup messages that JOSM can confront you with, and not without reason. Popup messages are considered bad style among UI designers and can severely disrupt the workflow. On the other hand, too little feedback about what you're doing or have just done is bad too - it pretends to take responsibility away from the user, but the messages that they'll receive in their inbox will not have any of that. They will ask why did you X, and if the editor didn't make the user aware that X was being done, that's not a good user experience either. (I think that with time, Potlatch in some places introduced those little fade-away messages that informed you of something you had done - i.e. not like JOSM are you sure you want to X but rather I did X for you. Those seemed like a reasonable compromise.) I know that many people are either unaware of the multitude of complex relations used by mappers in Germany, or even think that they're some useless play thing the Germans create because they've already mapped every lamp post. And it is everyone's right to think or say that if that's their opinion. However, if there should really be (and I repeat, I haven't even investigated the details!) ample possibility to unknowingly upset relations with iD then I suggest that the matter should be taken seriously - not because a handful of Germans complain, but because we'd be sending new mappers to their doom, at least in Germany, and pave the way for another five years of right editor vs. wrong editor. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Lester, On 12.05.2013 15:22, Lester Caine wrote: So how do we leave potlatch as a default on other browsers? A consensus on this sort of impositions wou1d be nice ... having to find one's way around a new editor when one is used to the idiosyncrasies of the existing one is just going to mean I don't bother pushing quick fixes at all ... You can easily set Potlatch as the default editor for *your* account, then you don't have to change anything - when people speak of making iD the default editor this is about the question what one gets if one is newly signed up and has never made an explicit choice. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 12/05/13 13:24, NopMap wrote: Tom Hughes-3 wrote There are ongoing discussions in the German boards about iD easily and/or inadvertently breaking data [1]. Just like they've been saying about Potlatch for the last N years you mean? Are you implying that any comments on iD are to be discarded indiscriminately because there was another discussion about another editor at another time? No, but I am saying that we have a history of not necessarily allowing the complaints of the people creating crazily complicated systems of relations to have a veto on what editors are or are not allowed to do. Tom Hughes-3 wrote It appears to run with very bad performance in FF and not at all in IE [2]. The pending pull request to make it the default deliberately leaves Potlatch as the default for IE. And what's the default for FF? Well currently it is to use iD, but then we haven't accepted the pull request in question yet, and performance in Firefox is certainly an issue that I am aware of and that will be considered when deciding when to take it. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 08/05/2013 14:37, Douglas Musaazi wrote: Great work!! let's go ahead and use it. I'd love to but it's very sluggish while dragging in latest FF, the walk-through help keeps hanging the pop-ups appear over the area I want to edit Has an on-line help page been written yet? How do I unstitch a line segment by segment? In P2 it's done by selecting the end node pressing the Delete key. If I do this in ID a segment is deleted but then I appear to have to select the line again then the endpoint. In a similar vein how can I add a segment to an existing line? Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 08/05/2013 14:37, Douglas Musaazi wrote: Great work!! let's go ahead and use it. I'd love to but it's very sluggish while dragging in latest FF, the walk-through help keeps hanging the pop-ups appear over the area I want to edit I'm working on performance right now, and the popup menu is a known usability problem. Can you provide more details about the walkthrough problem, or open an issue on https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues? Has an on-line help page been written yet? There is on-line help built in -- click the help icon on the left, or use the 'h' hotkey. How do I unstitch a line segment by segment? In P2 it's done by selecting the end node pressing the Delete key. Yes, this is an open feature request ( https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues/1457). Another way to do it currently is hold Shift and drag-select the nodes you want to delete. In a similar vein how can I add a segment to an existing line? Enter line draw mode, click on the end of the line, continue drawing. You're not the first person to ask about this, so we're thinking of adding a Continue line action to the popup menu. Thanks for the feedback! John ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 05/12/2013 03:41 PM, Tom Hughes wrote: No, but I am saying that we have a history of not necessarily allowing the complaints of the people creating crazily complicated systems of relations to have a veto on what editors are or are not allowed to do. Simple cycle and hiking route relations are not crazily complicated and a very visible part of the openstreetmap ecosystem. If something breaks them silently when doing normal editing, then that is not something that should simply be ignored. What I think is funny though, is that when I fixed some routes yesterday, the biggest errors were created by JOSM users. If you work on a route and use the download incomplete members option. JOSM doesn't warn you when splitting or merging roads outside of the initially loaded bounding box. So you can damage other routes without any warning. Yes, this actually happens. -- --- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl wrote: On 05/12/2013 03:41 PM, Tom Hughes wrote: No, but I am saying that we have a history of not necessarily allowing the complaints of the people creating crazily complicated systems of relations to have a veto on what editors are or are not allowed to do. Simple cycle and hiking route relations are not crazily complicated and a very visible part of the openstreetmap ecosystem. If something breaks them silently when doing normal editing, then that is not something that should simply be ignored. Simple route relations are handled correctly by iD. I just split a state highway to add a bridge: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/16100356 As you can see, the v1 bridge way and the other v1 way were added to the route relation automatically. It has relation logic built in but no UI to create or directly manipulate them (yet). Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 05/12/2013 08:35 PM, Toby Murray wrote: Simple route relations are handled correctly by iD. Correction: Some aspects of simple route relations are handled correctly by iD. The basic fact remains that you don't even see that something is part of a relation. So if a crossroads is turned into a roundabout. The mapper using iD has no way of knowing that the new roundabout should be added to the route (let alone a way of doing it). Like written elsewhere, these features are somewhere in the development pipeline. The only thing asked, is not to make iD the default for unsuspecting new editors until it really is ready for prime time. Like Frederik wrote, we don't need another 5 years of BAN iD ! -- --- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Tom MacWright tom at macwright.org writes: Filed an issue for that idea at https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues/1472 - in the future, please file issues on GitHub rather than posting to the mailing list, so that they're seen and actionable by developers. Hi, If ideas are filed directly into GitHub they won't be seen and discussed by other users. Mailing lists may feel oldfashioned but they still have some good points. -Jukka Rahkonen- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Congratulations to all of the developers and contributors to iD! On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 9:41 AM, tmcw t...@macwright.org wrote: Hi all! Today, we've tagged iD editor v1.0.0 and integrated it into openstreetmap.org, thanks to Tom Hughes, Ansis Brammanis, John Firebaugh, Saman Bemel-Benrud, Richard Fairhurst, Alex Barth, and many many others. It's been a long 7 months of development which we've chronicled on http://mapbox.com/osmdev/, and before launch more than 8,000 changesets were made with iD. We're really excited for this to reach many more people and improve really rapidly. So try out iD if you haven't yet, and make some edits! As with any project, there are rough edges that we'll be refining in the coming weeks, many of which are already reported and some of which you should report. We're tracking bugs and features at https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues?state=open and if you'd like to contribute, we have a great guide at https://github.com/systemed/iD/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md Cheers! Tom MacWright -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760012.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Clifford OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Congratulations and many thanks to everyone who has put in countless hours developing and testing and deploying! I've watched this project grow and it has come a long, long way. Some reads: http://mashable.com/2013/05/07/openstreetmap/ http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/7/4306500/openstreetmap-id-editor-from-mapbox-launches http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/07/openstreetmap-to-give-google-maps-a-run-for-its-money-by-launching-its-new-id-editor/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/05/07/mapbox-unveils-id-editor-for-openstreetmap/ http://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2013/05/cutting-edge-map-tool-turns-anyone-cartographer/5510/ On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 10:41 AM, tmcw t...@macwright.org wrote: Hi all! Today, we've tagged iD editor v1.0.0 and integrated it into openstreetmap.org, thanks to Tom Hughes, Ansis Brammanis, John Firebaugh, Saman Bemel-Benrud, Richard Fairhurst, Alex Barth, and many many others. It's been a long 7 months of development which we've chronicled on http://mapbox.com/osmdev/, and before launch more than 8,000 changesets were made with iD. We're really excited for this to reach many more people and improve really rapidly. So try out iD if you haven't yet, and make some edits! As with any project, there are rough edges that we'll be refining in the coming weeks, many of which are already reported and some of which you should report. We're tracking bugs and features at https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues?state=open and if you'd like to contribute, we have a great guide at https://github.com/systemed/iD/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md Cheers! Tom MacWright -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760012.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On 7 May 2013 18:06, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Congratulations and many thanks to everyone who has put in countless hours developing and testing and deploying! I've watched this project grow and it has come a long, long way. Some reads: http://mashable.com/2013/05/07/openstreetmap/ http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/7/4306500/openstreetmap-id-editor-from-mapbox-launches http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/07/openstreetmap-to-give-google-maps-a-run-for-its-money-by-launching-its-new-id-editor/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/05/07/mapbox-unveils-id-editor-for-openstreetmap/ http://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2013/05/cutting-edge-map-tool-turns-anyone-cartographer/5510/ You forgot the most important blog ;-) http://blog.openstreetmap.org/2013/05/07/openstreetmap-launches-all-new-easy-map-editor-and-announces-funding-appeal/ / Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
No, I left that one to you :) On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 7 May 2013 18:06, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Congratulations and many thanks to everyone who has put in countless hours developing and testing and deploying! I've watched this project grow and it has come a long, long way. Some reads: http://mashable.com/2013/05/07/openstreetmap/ http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/7/4306500/openstreetmap-id-editor-from-mapbox-launches http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/07/openstreetmap-to-give-google-maps-a-run-for-its-money-by-launching-its-new-id-editor/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/05/07/mapbox-unveils-id-editor-for-openstreetmap/ http://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2013/05/cutting-edge-map-tool-turns-anyone-cartographer/5510/ You forgot the most important blog ;-) http://blog.openstreetmap.org/2013/05/07/openstreetmap-launches-all-new-easy-map-editor-and-announces-funding-appeal/ / Grant -- Martijn van Exel http://oegeo.wordpress.com/ http://openstreetmap.us/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Hi! Unfortunately, iD starts with a misleading greeting. It says: ...for more information, visit ideditor.com. But all you find there is another instance of the editor, none of the promised information. bye, Nop -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760012p5760023.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Should there be a mailing list for iD, as there are mailing lists for Potlatch, JOSM, and Merkaartor? -- Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Hi, As discussed this month on the #dev mailing list: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2013-May/thread.html - iD doesn't have a mailing list of its own at this point, and I think that's fine: 'talk discussion' of the editor can live in the #dev mailing list, and technical discussion - features, bug reports, and so on, should be on the GitHub Issue Tracker: https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues?state=open Tom -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760012p5760031.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
On May 7, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Grant Slater wrote: You forgot the most important blog ;-) http://blog.openstreetmap.org/2013/05/07/openstreetmap-launches-all-new-easy-map-editor-and-announces-funding-appeal/ / Grant Ha! Congratulations, guys. It's a fantastic piece of work. -mike. michal migurski- contact info and pgp key: sf/cahttp://mike.teczno.com/contact.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
tmcw wrote As discussed this month on the #dev mailing list: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2013-May/thread.html - iD doesn't have a mailing list of its own at this point, and I think that's fine: 'talk discussion' of the editor can live in the #dev mailing list, and technical discussion - features, bug reports, and so on, should be on the GitHub Issue Tracker: https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues?state=open I think it's a pretty bad idea to deviate from the commonly used and expected methods of communication. And putting a simple general or how to question into an issue tracker is rather weird. bye, Nop -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760012p5760051.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
NopMap wrote: And putting a simple general or how to question into an issue tracker is rather weird. help.openstreetmap.org is the commonly used and expected method of asking simple general and how to questions. :) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760012p5760053.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
This looks very nice. Cheers! Pierre De : tmcw t...@macwright.org À : talk@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Mardi 7 mai 2013 12h41 Objet : [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap Hi all! Today, we've tagged iD editor v1.0.0 and integrated it into openstreetmap.org, thanks to Tom Hughes, Ansis Brammanis, John Firebaugh, Saman Bemel-Benrud, Richard Fairhurst, Alex Barth, and many many others. It's been a long 7 months of development which we've chronicled on http://mapbox.com/osmdev/, and before launch more than 8,000 changesets were made with iD. We're really excited for this to reach many more people and improve really rapidly. So try out iD if you haven't yet, and make some edits! As with any project, there are rough edges that we'll be refining in the coming weeks, many of which are already reported and some of which you should report. We're tracking bugs and features at https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues?state=open and if you'd like to contribute, we have a great guide at https://github.com/systemed/iD/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md Cheers! Tom MacWright -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760012.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap
Richard Fairhurst wrote NopMap wrote: And putting a simple general or how to question into an issue tracker is rather weird. help.openstreetmap.org is the commonly used and expected method of asking simple general and how to questions. :) Then I really wonder why we have the josm-dev, Merkaartor, osmosis-dev, Potlatch-dev and Taginfo-dev mailing lists. For example, I have not found any information on what customizing would be possible with iD. Don't think that would fit well on help.openstreetmap.org nor into an issue tracker. bye, Nop -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/iD-Editor-live-on-OpenStreetMap-tp5760012p5760082.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
