Re: [Talk-hr] Biciklističke staze
Dobar prvi post! Ne znam zašto se nitko ne javlja, a svi se slažemo da moramo srediti te biciklističke tagove. Sviđa mi se simetričnost highway=path taga koji nije niti footway niti cycleway. Ali ne sviđa mi se to što smo path do sada koristili za footway koji nije betoniran. Znači zemljane stazice na kojima se podrazumjeva foot=yes. Isto kao highway=track. Po tvojemu bi u slučaju da imamo pločnik koji je footway, i odjednom krene crta za bicikle, onda to postao path koji ima foot=yes i bicycle=yes. Nije mi to baš praktično. Meni bi draže bilo da se na highway=footway jednostavno doda bicycle=track. Može i bicycle=designated + segregated=yes, svejedno. Predlažem da na ovaj način pišemo prijedloge, da bude preglednije i lakše za dekodirati: *Vlejdov prijedlog* *highway=path + foot=**designated **+ bicycle=designated + segregated=yes*-- staza sa trakom za bicikliste *highway=path + foot=**designated** + bicycle=designated* -- staza na kojoj su dopušteni bicikli (označeno znakom) ali nema trake *highway=footway + bicycle=yes -- *staza na kojoj nema dopuštenja za bicikle, ali se često vozi *highway=cycleway* -- Staza samo za bicikle *Janjkov prijedlog* *highway=footway + bicycle=designated + segregated=yes* -- staze sa trakom za bicikliste *highway=footway + bicycle=designated* -- staza na kojoj su dopušteni bicikli (označeno znakom) ali nema trake *highway=footway + bicycle=yes -- *staza na kojoj nema dopuštenja za bicikle, ali se često vozi *highway=cycleway* -- Staza samo za bicikle Janko 2011/4/14 Vlejd wlade...@gmail.com Pozdrav svima, nažalost od ponedeljka sam bio u gužvi pa nisam stigao raspisati to što sam obećao, ni ovdje na grupi niti na wikiju. Uglavnom, pokušat ću odgovoriti na pitanje i prokomentirati varijacije koje mi padaju na pamet. 1) cesta kao way s tagovima kakve je naveo Janko: highway=*[1] + cycleway=track + segregated=yes + foot=designated (izvor: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dcycleway i http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle primjer T2) Ovakvo označavanje nije netočno, ali nije sasvim precizno jer na karti nije vidljivo s koje strane ceste se nalazi staza. Isto tako, detalji u pogledu pješačkih i biciklističkih prijelaza preko ceste, prekidi staze, izmjene u izvedbi, sve se to ovime ne obuhvaća. Znači, za routanje može funkcionirati, ali ne puno detaljnije od toga. Po meni, nije idealno. 2) bic. staza i pješački nogostup kao way odvojen od ceste: a) highway=path + bicycle=designated + foot=designated + segregated=yes (izvor: opet http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dcyclewaydrugi ponuđeni način ili http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dpath/Examples, peti primjer) Osim što je *=designated još uvijek slabo raširen i dijelom nepriznat tag (isto kao i h=path), ovo mi se čini kao najpotpunija i najfleksibilnija verzija. Pritom mislim da treba izbjegavati *=official. Razlika između official | designated | yes kod nas nije baš jasna niti mi se čini da za toliko detaljnim razlikovanjem ima potrebe. Kad se radi o ucrtanoj stazi, neka stoji designated, a kad se radi o površini na kojoj se može biciklirati i viđa se da je to praksa, onda neka stoji yes. Koliko mi je poznato, routeri i popularni renderi u principu između toga neće praviti razliku, no za potrebe preciznosti i zasebnih renderiranja ovo daje sasvim dobre podatke. S druge strane, opencyclemaps zasad ne prepoznaje tag official niti je kad sam autora pitao za to on izrazio veliku želju da to implementira. b) highway=cycleway + foot=designated + segregated=yes (izvor: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle primjer s3... Inače, ako mi netko zna prevesti If sidewalks are not considered as implied u konkretni jezik OSM-a, bio bih zahvalan) Mene je tu neko vrijeme bunilo ne treba li ovdje ići cycleway=track, opet radi preciznosti, ali shvatio sam da je suvišno ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycleway). Uglavnom, ovaj način sigurno funkcionira, ali osobno bih za označavanje bic-pješ staza izbjegavao highway=cycleway. Razlog su varijacije na temu tumačenja access restrictiona koji se podrazumijevaju u pojedinoj državi i u pojedinoj situaciji. Nekako, a ovdje možda griješim, čini mi se kontra intuicije označavati nešto kao posvećenu bic. cestu/put i istovremeno na nj lijepiti segregated=yes + foot=designated. Čini mi se da highway=path izbjegava makar i natruhu problema u interpretaciji, kakve se možda može naći ovdje. c) highway=cycleway + pedestrian=yes (ovako je još davno netko predložio ovdje na grupi) Ovo ne funkcionira jer pedestrian=yes nije oznaka za ništa, eventualno foot=yes. Međutim, nije dovoljno precizno u odnosu na oba gornja načina. d) highway=footway + bicycle=yes (ovako sam to ponegdje viđao po zagrebu, premda priznam da je bilo za jednosmjerne staze) Mislim da ovo rješenje treba ostati na mjestima na kojima nema ucrtane nikakve staze, a viđaju se bicikli. 3) bic. i pješ. staza kao
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
how come our acceptance is rather low? http://odbl.de/ There are few large editors, have they not all agreed to it, or some disagree? Andre On 3:59 AM, maning sambale wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Michael Collinsonm...@ayeltd.biz Date: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 5:39 AM Subject: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday To: OSM talkt...@openstreetmap.org OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins this Sunday. A full announcement has gone to the Announce list and there is full information at the Find out more about OpenStreetMap's upcoming license change link on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org or directly at http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License Any help getting this out to non-English speaking mailing lists much appreciated. In summary: This only affects you if you are an OpenStreetMap contributor who registered before 12th May 2010 and have not taken part in our voluntary re-licensing program. Before being able to edit, you will have accept or decline new contributor terms. To give time to get the word out, this does not take effect until Sunday! Michael Collinson License Working Group ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Hi, My name is Marc Gemis. I'm new to OpenStreetMap. Since I'm using OpenFietsMap on my Garmin device and I hope to give something back. I saw that in my area (Reet (Rumst)) a number of Buurtwegen (BW) en Voetwegen (VW) are not on the map. I could also add a number of paths in the Park van Boom and Rumst, as well as tsome of the knooppunten of Rivierenland. At the moment I'm reading through the documentation to get an idea what is involved. Although I'm a bit reluctant to actually start modifying the map, I hope to add some data soon. regards m. p.s. my mothertongue is Dutch and my mapper name is 'escada' (after one of our dogs). ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Hi, Welcome ! If you need help, just ask the list. Julien PS: If you want to meet other OSM'ers in Belgium : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Activities#Upcoming_activities Le 15/04/2011 13:10, Marc Gemis a écrit : Hi, My name is Marc Gemis. I'm new to OpenStreetMap. Since I'm using OpenFietsMap on my Garmin device and I hope to give something back. I saw that in my area (Reet (Rumst)) a number of Buurtwegen (BW) en Voetwegen (VW) are not on the map. I could also add a number of paths in the Park van Boom and Rumst, as well as tsome of the knooppunten of Rivierenland. At the moment I'm reading through the documentation to get an idea what is involved. Although I'm a bit reluctant to actually start modifying the map, I hope to add some data soon. regards m. p.s. my mothertongue is Dutch and my mapper name is 'escada' (after one of our dogs). ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Use potlatch 2 (simple) choose among the path's the generic path Interesting discussion to help a newbie ;-) 2011/4/15 Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com Jo wrote: Hi Marc, Your help will be much appreciated! Voetwegen are usually tagged as: highway=footway name=Voetweg 22 bicycle=yes (or no, of course) horse=no (or yes) width=1.60 surface=dirt (or paved, asphalt) No, they're usually tagged highway=path The access tags like bicycle=yes and horse=no are also a bit of a minefield for newcomers. Click the right traffic signs to get the tags (it's still unfinished though - just don't look at the highway tags too much yet -- only works on Firefox and possibly Opera): http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~eimai/verkeersborden/ I also don't really recommend using name=Voetweg 22, unless it has street name signs as such (I know there are some like that around that area). If you really want to go hardcore with it, I've been using tags like vicinal_ref=number before to map the number of the voetweg/buurtweg. That way you won't get into trouble if you have both a real name and a number (in theory, all public streets and paths should have a number, but that's obviously not the case anymore) Greetings Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
He won't be a newbie for long, with our 'stoomcursus'... Polyglot 2011/4/15 Ivo De Broeck ivo.debro...@gmail.com Use potlatch 2 (simple) choose among the path's the generic path Interesting discussion to help a newbie ;-) 2011/4/15 Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com Jo wrote: Hi Marc, Your help will be much appreciated! Voetwegen are usually tagged as: highway=footway name=Voetweg 22 bicycle=yes (or no, of course) horse=no (or yes) width=1.60 surface=dirt (or paved, asphalt) No, they're usually tagged highway=path The access tags like bicycle=yes and horse=no are also a bit of a minefield for newcomers. Click the right traffic signs to get the tags (it's still unfinished though - just don't look at the highway tags too much yet -- only works on Firefox and possibly Opera): http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~eimai/verkeersborden/ I also don't really recommend using name=Voetweg 22, unless it has street name signs as such (I know there are some like that around that area). If you really want to go hardcore with it, I've been using tags like vicinal_ref=number before to map the number of the voetweg/buurtweg. That way you won't get into trouble if you have both a real name and a number (in theory, all public streets and paths should have a number, but that's obviously not the case anymore) Greetings Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Ivo De Broeck wrote: Use potlatch 2 (simple) choose among the path's the generic path Interesting discussion to help a newbie ;-) (off-topic) That simple way of editing in Potlatch2 is just asking for trouble. I advise everyone to learn and use the raw tags from the start for things like roads and access tags. Using the predefined items lets people make wrong assumptions about the meaning of the tags. Not to mention that every country has its own tagging rules, making predefined items even more prone to errors, because you can't just translate them into your own language. Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Hi Marc, In JOSM, you can use aerial photography on the background by selecting: Luchtfotografie/Bing Sat in the menu. Then you can align your ways on those as well. As the name I would have put 'Buurtweg 23'. We don't use abbreviations in the names. (Except if BW23 is what you actually found on the name tag) Polyglot 2011/4/15 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Thanks everybody for confusing me even more ;-) Anyhow, I downloaded JOSM and added my first 'buurtweg' BW 23 Hopefully, I took the right conclusions for the tags regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Hi Jo, The signs of the buurtwegen en the voetwegen always have the abbreviated name BW23 or VW51, followed by the name of the residential road to which the are leading (and thus different on both sides). I'll look into aligning the BW23 with the aerial photo regards m On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Marc, In JOSM, you can use aerial photography on the background by selecting: Luchtfotografie/Bing Sat in the menu. Then you can align your ways on those as well. As the name I would have put 'Buurtweg 23'. We don't use abbreviations in the names. (Except if BW23 is what you actually found on the name tag) Polyglot 2011/4/15 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Thanks everybody for confusing me even more ;-) Anyhow, I downloaded JOSM and added my first 'buurtweg' BW 23 Hopefully, I took the right conclusions for the tags regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Hi and Welcome! I assume you use the Atlas for looking up 'trage wegen' (slow roads) Then it is as said in full Voetweg (sentier) or Buurtweg (chemin) followed by a number eg Voetweg 23 Example of Sint-Agatha-Rode (and area around) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.77504lon=4.63516zoom=15layers=M Mosttimes they are in agricultural areas, because in the villages, roads are paved and have names of their own. So they will be mosttimes tagged as track when there is a 'karrespoor' or as path if it is smaller (only foot and/or bike). If it is paved, it can be a minor or unclassified.road, but then it will probably be named. Footway and cycleway are tags for (mosttimes) paved paths inside the villages dedicated for pedestrians and cyclists by the round blue traffic signs. JOSM is the editor of choice. Regards, Gerard. Jo wrote: Hi Marc, In JOSM, you can use aerial photography on the background by selecting: Luchtfotografie/Bing Sat in the menu. Then you can align your ways on those as well. As the name I would have put 'Buurtweg 23'. We don't use abbreviations in the names. (Except if BW23 is what you actually found on the name tag) Polyglot 2011/4/15 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com Thanks everybody for confusing me even more ;-) Anyhow, I downloaded JOSM and added my first 'buurtweg' BW 23 Hopefully, I took the right conclusions for the tags regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
Hi, Tags are good. Except segregated = no is only to be used with footway and cycleway. So, delete this tag. The name in full, name = Buurtweg 23 I don't know where you get this BW23 from. It is not indicated as such in the atlas: http://gis1.provant.be/Geoloketten/geoloket.jsp?geoloketid=55 surface = unpaved is good unless you know it more specific and then you can specify dirt, grass, gravel, etc. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface?uselang=nl For tracks you can also use the tracktype http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:Map_Features#Type_veldweg_of_bospad Regards, Gerard. Marc Gemis wrote: Hi Jo, The signs of the buurtwegen en the voetwegen always have the abbreviated name BW23 or VW51, followed by the name of the residential road to which the are leading (and thus different on both sides). I'll look into aligning the BW23 with the aerial photo regards m On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Marc, In JOSM, you can use aerial photography on the background by selecting: Luchtfotografie/Bing Sat in the menu. Then you can align your ways on those as well. As the name I would have put 'Buurtweg 23'. We don't use abbreviations in the names. (Except if BW23 is what you actually found on the name tag) Polyglot 2011/4/15 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com Thanks everybody for confusing me even more ;-) Anyhow, I downloaded JOSM and added my first 'buurtweg' BW 23 Hopefully, I took the right conclusions for the tags regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Introduction
I see, then it's done differently in the province of Antwerp, than here in Vlaams-Brabant... 2011/4/15 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Hi Jo, The signs of the buurtwegen en the voetwegen always have the abbreviated name BW23 or VW51, followed by the name of the residential road to which the are leading (and thus different on both sides). I'll look into aligning the BW23 with the aerial photo regards m On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Marc, In JOSM, you can use aerial photography on the background by selecting: Luchtfotografie/Bing Sat in the menu. Then you can align your ways on those as well. As the name I would have put 'Buurtweg 23'. We don't use abbreviations in the names. (Except if BW23 is what you actually found on the name tag) Polyglot 2011/4/15 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Thanks everybody for confusing me even more ;-) Anyhow, I downloaded JOSM and added my first 'buurtweg' BW 23 Hopefully, I took the right conclusions for the tags regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
Hi, (Thread moved over from talk) On 04/15/2011 05:55 PM, Kai Krueger wrote: In addition, it is imho not clear that not some of the many imports listed as Attribution licensed wouldn't fall into this category, too (rather than in category 3 as CC-BY). To be clear, my category 3 was meant for *everything* that would be theoretically compatible but lacks the authorisation to sublicense. The category 4 introduced by David Groom was a hypothetical category that did have the sublicensing option but was somehow otherwise incompatible with the CT. So we are back to nothing is compatible with the CTs other than a PD (like) license? The Ordnance Survey Open Data License, for example, explicitly permits sublicensing so that one would be ok. Also, NearMap imagery could easily be made compatible if NearMap were to say yeah fine, everyone has the right to allow OSMF to sublicence under CC-BY-SA or ODbL. The change in the CT means that in the early versions, you had to vouch for the data you contribute being compatible with any future license change. This isn't the case any more, you only have to say that it is compatible with the current license and that you have the right to authorize OSMF to distribute the data under that license. This last sentence, when read strictly, rules out the import of plain CC-BY-SA or ODbL data sets without the sublicensing option. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
On 15 April 2011 19:35, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: In addition, it is imho not clear that not some of the many imports listed as Attribution licensed wouldn't fall into this category, too (rather than in category 3 as CC-BY). I haven't seen this list so cannot comment. [snip] The Ordnance Survey Open Data License, for example, explicitly permits sublicensing so that one would be ok. Also, NearMap imagery could easily be I am afraid it wouldn't be OK because it requires that all sub-licenses (including onward sub-licenses) have a specified attribution statement. That is a restriction on use which means that a contributor (as licensee) does not have sufficient right to grant all the rights granted in clause 2. There's a practical outworking of this: the attribution and licence structure of OSMF does not appear to require me a user of OSM to add the specified attribution statement myself, which is a requirement of the Ordnance Survey Open Data Licence. made compatible if NearMap were to say yeah fine, everyone has the right to allow OSMF to sublicence under CC-BY-SA or ODbL. Better would be the right to grant all rights to OSMF. A lot more is being granted than just a right to sublicense under CC-BY-SA etc. The change in the CT means that in the early versions, you had to vouch for the data you contribute being compatible with any future license change. This isn't the case any more, you only have to say that it is compatible with the current license and that you have the right to authorize OSMF to distribute the data under that license. This last sentence, when read strictly, rules out the import of plain CC-BY-SA or ODbL data sets without the sublicensing option. If I understand you correctly, that's right. Clause 2 appears to prevent most licensed data from being imported. Recently on this list (I think) we were pointed at the LWG's minutes where it was decided to take this approach to avoid various risks to OSMF. -- Francis Davey ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
Hi, On 04/15/2011 09:16 PM, Francis Davey wrote: In addition, it is imho not clear that not some of the many imports listed as Attribution licensed wouldn't fall into this category, too (rather than in category 3 as CC-BY). I haven't seen this list so cannot comment. Sorry for that. I had been drawn into a legal discussion on talk and decided to move it back here, without giving proper context. The context is this: Someone asked wether, if we someone has agreed to CT but we later find out his contribution was tainted (their wording), we would then delete all data contributed by that person. My answer was: If data is tainted in a way that makes in incompatible with the currently used license then it will have to be removed in order not to put the project at risk (e.g. data copied from proprietary sources). This is independent of the license change. If data is tainted in a way that makes it compatible with the currently used license, but it is likely that the data will have to be removed should OSM ever change to a different license under the CT 2/3 of active mappers clause, then things are difficult - it would certainly be better in the long run to replace such data by data that is fully compliant, and I would estimate tools to be developed that would aim to gradually phase out such limited-release data and make sure such data is not used to build upon if it can be avoided. But I don't think it would be removed outright - I guess the decision will be delayed until such time as anyone actually proposes changing the license again. There's also a third kind of tainted that sits in the middle of these two, namely data that has e.g. been released CC-BY. Such data looks compatible at first, but closer inspection (see current discussion on legal-talk) reveals that CC-BY explicitly forbids sublicensing, and sublicensing is what the new scheme is all about. So in that case we'd have a legal outcome (data being distributed with attribution) but an untidy process that took us there. I don't know if this is a minor problem that can be ignored, or a showstopper. Note that with this third kind I was basically trying to echo what you (FD) had written earlier on legal-talk. The list mentioned in the quote at the top of this email is http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue. Someone replied to my message with: There's also a fourth kind of tainted data. Data that might be compatible with CC-BY-SA, and might be compatible with ODbL, but is incompatible with the CT's. To which I again replied It would be very hard to construct something of that kind. The most common thing is certainly going to be the above third case, where you have the right to distribute data under CC-BY-SA or maybe even ODbL or maybe you even have the right to distribute it under any license with a BY component, but you do not have the right to authorize a third party (OSMF) to perform such distribution. For data of your fourth kind you would have to have a data provider who says you can use my data under CC-BY-SA or ODbL, and you have the right to sublicense not only under these licenses, but you also under these licenses plus the additional privilege of further sublicensing. I'm not aware of such a situation even existing. If you find anything wrong with that, I'm happy to correct my own statement on talk. I shouldn't have started replying to legal stuff on talk in the first place. Normally i only say if you want to discuss this come to legal-talk... Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] We Need to Stop Google's Exploitation of Open Communities
Mikel, On 04/11/2011 05:27 PM, Mikel Maron wrote: http://brainoff.com/weblog/2011/04/11/1635 In the following message, all quotes are from your blog post. I've given this matter some thought and I think while your concerns are legitimate, you are perhaps overreacting a bit. OpenStreetMap and Google have always been friendly competitors. We have profited a lot from Google. They have invented many things that we could copy (e.g. the slippy map); they have blazed a trail that we could follow, they have made online maps into the commodity they are, they have established the product and created the market. How often have I had it easy to OSM to someone because I could say: This is just like Google Maps, just that list differences. Google have also supported us directly. Ed Parsons being present at a number of State of the Map conferences has given us a credibility boost in the eyes of many (when they could also have sent a low-ranking minion for information gathering). Google gave us cash for a new server at a time when money wasn't flowing like it is today; and they have given our project Summer of Code stipends even though it would have been perfectly in their right to say no, we don't want to support the competition. On top of all this, they have patiently accepted that we are bashing their product nearly every time we market OSM: We are like Google Maps, only better! Google’s strategy is to build market in Africa by appropriating the appearance of open data community methodologies, yet maintaining corporate control of what should rightfully be a common resource. I share your sentiment, but I have long given up fighting this. I stand aghast at someone waving their iPhone, asking them why on earth they willfully submit to Apple's dictate over what they can and cannot do on this little machine that, for many, quickly becomes an integral part of their life. Their answer: It just works! - I see people uploading half their lifes to Twitter, geocaching.com, Facebook, and I say don't you know these are closed platforms operated by commercial entities with the aim of maintaining corporate control? - and they go but everyone does it, and it works so well, it doesn't cost a thing, and anyway it's not really closed, look it even has an API! And what works for the individual also works for large organisations - whole universities training their geography students in ESRI software because ESRI made this great offer where the academic license was almost free and comes with premium support - when one could argue that this provides them quite a bit of corporate control over education. What you lament for countries in Africa has happended to cities in Germany in very similar fashion - the city had their own geodata but no printed street map; a publishing house came along and offered to print free street maps for everyone if they get an exclusive license to using the data in print; the city said great, win-win situation and signed the contract; now they're stuck with second-rate printed maps and don't even control their own resources. It happens all over the world, all the time - commercial entities making offers that are too good to refuse, just sign away a tiny little part of your sovereignty here and we'll give you all this for free. (Thing exploration of natural resources!) I, too, find a lot to be criticised here, but I think it is unfair to single out Google. What bothers me so much is how they have blatantly copied OpenStreetMap. First their MapMaker product is directly modelled on OSM, but with a restrictive data license, where you can not use the data as you see fit. Second, they have stolen the idea of Mapping Parties, a unique concept and name we developed. Third, they’re even copying initiatives to map impoverished informal settlements, like Map Kibera. I think blatantly copy and steal are not the right words to describe the situation. Could we have patented the ideas of OSM and of mapping parties if we had wanted to? I doubt it. It is ok for others to be inspired by the success of OSM - just as we have been inspired by what Google offers their users in online mapping. I think we have to admit that free and open is a luxury thing. First you want a working computer, and then you can think about whether it's free and open. If Microsoft offers to install a Windows PC in every school in your impoverished city, you will not say no just because it's a proprietary operating system. And while some might bash Microsoft for exploiting the weakness of the other side in this situation, I don't think that's fair - they make an offer and the other side is free to accept or reject. Which brings us back to Google offering, as you say free maps to impoverished countries in return for, I assume, commercial exploitation rights to the geodata that has been collected. Yes, you could say they're exploiting the weakness of the other side - but then
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:08 AM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: So my understanding now, from Francis' comment, is that CC-By-SA and CC-By are not compatible (you can't accept the CTs if you've contributed data obtained under those licenses, without infringing those licenses?), but ODbL for example might be compatible with CT although it's not compaitble with the current OSM's license. But it might be in the future. Is ODbL licensed content compatible with the current CTs? My understanding is that ODbL does not allow you to grant a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable licence bla bla bla... to anyone. So no ODbL licensed datasets can be contributed to OSM. None at all. And that includes ODbL content that came from OSM in the first place. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
On 15 April 2011 00:38, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: If data is tainted in a way that makes in incompatible with the currently used license then it will have to be removed in order not to put the project at risk (e.g. data copied from proprietary sources). This is independent of the license change. I assume that the currently used license means to the ODBL license now in use by contributors. If so how and to whom do I serve notice that even though I clicked on the accept button I'm not comfortable that all my edits before March 2011 contain only data is that is completely untainted so rather than put the OSM project at risk could they be removed. I'm happy to get out my GPS and notepad and ensure anything I add from today forward will meet the new criteria. Hi John, What is your OSM account name? Where did the imported data come from: government source, printed map, something else? Regards Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
- Original Message - From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org To: David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au Cc: Talk Openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday Hi, David Murn wrote: What about if you become aware that once youve got someone, who has agreed and who has contributed tainted data? Will you (or someone else wielding the magical OSMF+3 wand) reverse it? If data is tainted in a way that makes in incompatible with the currently used license then it will have to be removed in order not to put the project at risk (e.g. data copied from proprietary sources). This is independent of the license change. If data is tainted in a way that makes it compatible with the currently used license, but it is likely that the data will have to be removed should OSM ever change to a different license under the CT 2/3 of active mappers clause, then things are difficult - it would certainly be better in the long run to replace such data by data that is fully compliant, and I would estimate tools to be developed that would aim to gradually phase out such limited-release data and make sure such data is not used to build upon if it can be avoided. But I don't think it would be removed outright - I guess the decision will be delayed until such time as anyone actually proposes changing the license again. There's also a third kind of tainted that sits in the middle of these two, namely data that has e.g. been released CC-BY. Such data looks compatible at first, but closer inspection (see current discussion on legal-talk) reveals that CC-BY explicitly forbids sublicensing, and sublicensing is what the new scheme is all about. So in that case we'd have a legal outcome (data being distributed with attribution) but an untidy process that took us there. I don't know if this is a minor problem that can be ignored, or a showstopper. There's also a fourth kind of tainted data. Data that might be compatible with CC-BY-SA, and might be compatible with ODbL, but is incompatible with the CT's. In which case the question becomes, if someone who has accepted the CT's, is in breach of the CT's because some data they have contributed in the past is incompatible with the CT's, will all their data be removed and their user account blocked? Or is OSM happy to allow those people who are in breach of the CT's to continue to contribute to the project, in which case why bother having the CT's in the first place? David Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] CC-BY-SA still available?
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 01:38:30 +0200 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: So I chose a slightly humorous response, treating Anthony as if he really were an innocent newbie. I didn't expect that I would have to explain the humour, but I guess I should have known better. Humour is quite language specific. I don't expect you to get Strine jokes. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:49:20 +0200 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Eric Marsden wrote: It is not clear to me, from your message or from what I have read on the wiki, whether choosing Decline is a irreversible decision, or whether one would still be able later to accept the licence + CT. Decline is reversible. Accept isn't. Once we've got you, we'll never let go. Bye Frederik This is not a simplistic legal question at all. Where I am, right now, a contract has to have certain features to be valid. It must be agreed to by both parties, and there shall not be coercion, and it must not be unconscionable. So a shrink-wrap or click-through licence is not enforceable. We have already one example of a person who has mistakenly agreed, and who has notified OSMF, and will have to be released from the contract. So instead of claiming that every yes is permanent, protocols will need to be made for these circumstances. As OSMF has delved into contract law with the ODbL, the various contract laws of hundreds of nations worldwide will have to be considered. Hopefully they fall into major groupings to make your task easier. Liz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
Hi, On 04/15/2011 10:13 AM, David Groom wrote: There's also a third kind of tainted that sits in the middle of these two, namely data that has e.g. been released CC-BY. Such data looks compatible at first, but closer inspection (see current discussion on legal-talk) reveals that CC-BY explicitly forbids sublicensing, and sublicensing is what the new scheme is all about. So in that case we'd have a legal outcome (data being distributed with attribution) but an untidy process that took us there. I don't know if this is a minor problem that can be ignored, or a showstopper. There's also a fourth kind of tainted data. Data that might be compatible with CC-BY-SA, and might be compatible with ODbL, but is incompatible with the CT's. It would be very hard to construct something of that kind. The most common thing is certainly going to be the above third case, where you have the right to distribute data under CC-BY-SA or maybe even ODbL or maybe you even have the right to distribute it under any license with a BY component, but you do not have the right to authorize a third party (OSMF) to perform such distribution. For data of your fourth kind you would have to have a data provider who says you can use my data under CC-BY-SA or ODbL, and you have the right to sublicense not only under these licenses, but you also under these licenses plus the additional privilege of further sublicensing. I'm not aware of such a situation even existing. In which case the question becomes, if someone who has accepted the CT's, is in breach of the CT's because some data they have contributed in the past is incompatible with the CT's, will all their data be removed and their user account blocked? The best was to deal with such situations is to identify the affected data and remove only that. Ideally, users should, when agreeing to the CT, notify OSMF of those past contributions that are not CT compatible. The idea of accepting selected individual contributions without CT agreement - i.e. contributions which are CC-BY-SA or ODbL only with sublicensing option - has been floated over half a year ago, and this is a real possibility for cases where data loss would be too great otherwise. This would essentially defer data loss - the loss would not happen right away but at some later time if the license is changed again. This will always have to be a case-by-case decision by OSMF because it has the potential to cause trouble in the future and puts holes in the shiny new license regime we're hoping to have. Or is OSM happy to allow those people who are in breach of the CT's to continue to contribute to the project, in which case why bother having the CT's in the first place? As I said, there might be *selected* *individual* cases where we say oh well, we'll rather have your data now and accept that we have to remove it if we should ever change the license again, than not have your data at all. But just because we say so in one or two cases, doesn't mean we abandon the idea of a simplified later license change altogether. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war, Mitrovica
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 04:08:56 -0700 (PDT) ThomasB toba0...@yahoo.de wrote: Mitrovica was deleted by uboot http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7348595 could you please stop publicly blaming others for mistakes that you personally has made? ubot has deleted 15 ways and add some 60. The other edits were DupNode fixes. You personally have deleted the streets there http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/98163924/history http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/98171028/history http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/96950414/history http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/96577541/history http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/97831272/history do you want me to continue? There is a logic error here. How does removing duplicates remove an entire city of streets? Mike has reimported the streets overnight, using the original data, and they are slowly being rendered. The most polite thing that I think may have happened is for two duplicate node removers to have decided to attack the area at once. The result was devastation of the map in that area. I don't like 'duplicate node removing' scripts or bots. Duplicate nodes may well have a function, or may not be duplicate at all. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war, Mitrovica
Hi, On 04/15/2011 01:14 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: I don't like 'duplicate node removing' scripts or bots. Duplicate nodes may well have a function, or may not be duplicate at all. +1. Anyone who plans to indiscriminately fix duplicate nodes without actually looking at the situation (e.g. anyone running a bot removing such nodes) *must* discuss their planned actions with the affected community beforehand. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war, Mitrovica
Le 15/04/2011 13:24, Frederik Ramm a écrit : Hi, On 04/15/2011 01:14 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: I don't like 'duplicate node removing' scripts or bots. Duplicate nodes may well have a function, or may not be duplicate at all. +1. Anyone who plans to indiscriminately fix duplicate nodes without actually looking at the situation (e.g. anyone running a bot removing such nodes) *must* discuss their planned actions with the affected community beforehand. Bye Frederik +1 ! I fear for the survey marks in France ! -- FrViPofm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
- Original Message - From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday Hi, On 04/15/2011 10:13 AM, David Groom wrote: There's also a third kind of tainted that sits in the middle of these two, namely data that has e.g. been released CC-BY. Such data looks compatible at first, but closer inspection (see current discussion on legal-talk) reveals that CC-BY explicitly forbids sublicensing, and sublicensing is what the new scheme is all about. So in that case we'd have a legal outcome (data being distributed with attribution) but an untidy process that took us there. I don't know if this is a minor problem that can be ignored, or a showstopper. There's also a fourth kind of tainted data. Data that might be compatible with CC-BY-SA, and might be compatible with ODbL, but is incompatible with the CT's. It would be very hard to construct something of that kind. The most common thing is certainly going to be the above third case, where you have the right to distribute data under CC-BY-SA or maybe even ODbL or maybe you even have the right to distribute it under any license with a BY component, but you do not have the right to authorize a third party (OSMF) to perform such distribution. For data of your fourth kind you would have to have a data provider who says you can use my data under CC-BY-SA or ODbL, and you have the right to sublicense not only under these licenses, but you also under these licenses plus the additional privilege of further sublicensing. I'm not aware of such a situation even existing. Surely all you need is a data provider who says you can use my data under CC-BY-SA or ODbL but you dont have the right to grant a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable licence to do any act that is restricted by copyright , in respect of my data In which case the question becomes, if someone who has accepted the CT's, is in breach of the CT's because some data they have contributed in the past is incompatible with the CT's, will all their data be removed and their user account blocked? The best was to deal with such situations is to identify the affected data and remove only that. Ideally, users should, when agreeing to the CT, notify OSMF of those past contributions that are not CT compatible. So your ideal is that people should agree to the CT's even if they know that they are in breach of the CT's! That's not my idea of ideal, but I guess we will have to agree to differ on this point, and wait to see what the official OSM position is on dealing with people who are in breach of the CT's David The idea of accepting selected individual contributions without CT agreement - i.e. contributions which are CC-BY-SA or ODbL only with sublicensing option - has been floated over half a year ago, and this is a real possibility for cases where data loss would be too great otherwise. This would essentially defer data loss - the loss would not happen right away but at some later time if the license is changed again. This will always have to be a case-by-case decision by OSMF because it has the potential to cause trouble in the future and puts holes in the shiny new license regime we're hoping to have. Or is OSM happy to allow those people who are in breach of the CT's to continue to contribute to the project, in which case why bother having the CT's in the first place? As I said, there might be *selected* *individual* cases where we say oh well, we'll rather have your data now and accept that we have to remove it if we should ever change the license again, than not have your data at all. But just because we say so in one or two cases, doesn't mean we abandon the idea of a simplified later license change altogether. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
Johnwhelan is the account name. Unfortunately I have made a fair number of edits. The concern is I'm not comfortable that all of these meet the new standard but I'm unsure which ones do and which don't. I'm happy to reenter data following the new guidelines. I'm not happy to have some one else say don't worry about it. Thanks John On 15 April 2011 03:55, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 15 April 2011 00:38, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: If data is tainted in a way that makes in incompatible with the currently used license then it will have to be removed in order not to put the project at risk (e.g. data copied from proprietary sources). This is independent of the license change. I assume that the currently used license means to the ODBL license now in use by contributors. If so how and to whom do I serve notice that even though I clicked on the accept button I'm not comfortable that all my edits before March 2011 contain only data is that is completely untainted so rather than put the OSM project at risk could they be removed. I'm happy to get out my GPS and notepad and ensure anything I add from today forward will meet the new criteria. Hi John, What is your OSM account name? Where did the imported data come from: government source, printed map, something else? Regards Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
On 15 April 2011 13:28, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Johnwhelan is the account name. Unfortunately I have made a fair number of edits. The concern is I'm not comfortable that all of these meet the new standard but I'm unsure which ones do and which don't. I'm happy to reenter data following the new guidelines. I'm not happy to have some one else say don't worry about it. Thanks for that. What is the answer to my second question? Where do the potentially problem contributions come from? Email me off list if you must. Regards Grant Thanks John On 15 April 2011 03:55, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 15 April 2011 00:38, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: If data is tainted in a way that makes in incompatible with the currently used license then it will have to be removed in order not to put the project at risk (e.g. data copied from proprietary sources). This is independent of the license change. I assume that the currently used license means to the ODBL license now in use by contributors. If so how and to whom do I serve notice that even though I clicked on the accept button I'm not comfortable that all my edits before March 2011 contain only data is that is completely untainted so rather than put the OSM project at risk could they be removed. I'm happy to get out my GPS and notepad and ensure anything I add from today forward will meet the new criteria. Hi John, What is your OSM account name? Where did the imported data come from: government source, printed map, something else? Regards Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Do you expect any positive outcome from this, or is it for moral reasons that you choose this course of action? There are regions in OSM where a visible no vote will lead to your data being re-surveyed and replaced by other contributors rather quickly. I can only hope that this is not the case in your area because otherwise what you plan to do will yield the worst possible outcome - others duplicating the efforts you have put in (instead of using their time for something more productive), and you being miffed because your contributions have been removed before you had the chance to redecide. I hope to delay the process as long as possible in the interest of another plan being implemented. My two hopes are (1) remaining with the current license until CC4 fixes things. (2) an ODbL fork instead of a CC one. My data won't be resurveyed, but that doesn't change my view anyway. Please note I ultimately plan to stay with the project under the new terms! There are regions in OSM where a visible no vote will lead to your data being re-surveyed and replaced by other contributors rather quickly. I can only hope that this is not the case in your area because otherwise what you plan to do will yield the worst possible outcome - others duplicating the efforts you have put in (instead of using their time for something more productive), and you being miffed because your contributions have been removed before you had the chance to redecide. My contributions aren't as numerous as his http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?NE2, but if removed they would set my area back a half-decade. How so, if it has only taken you three years ;)? It's much more lossy to go backwards, since my edits are intertwined with others. You know as well as I do that reverting is a messy process, and will lose more than I originally put in. I said a half-decade because I was thinking TIGER started in 2006, so I stand corrected on that. If NEII's (and others) are removed, we can add the United States to Australia as 'countries the OSMF is willing to sacrifice.' It's a hard language to use. Avoiding saying difficult things doesn't mean they're not happening. Actions speak too. We don't want to lose any contributors, and we don't want to lose any data either. I don't want to compare OSM to a hill of mindless ants each of whom just execute their genetic programming; I believe that OSM works precisely because we're all individuals and contribute our own ideas, our style, our quirks. Every contributor is uniqe and (with very, very little exceptions) every contributor adds something valuable to OSM. Still, in the grand scheme of things, no single contributor is irreplaceable. Rip something out (and shed a couple tears about the love that went into it and is now lost to OSM) - it will grow back in time, and bring with it new people, a new community rallied to the cause. You are perfectly correct here overall, but I see one caveat. The *magnitude* of the time it will take OSM to 'grow back' is rather significant in my case. (i.e. the US). The community here has just barely gotten off the ground, and I fear the damage caused by mass deletion will be enough to kill it. I see a rather strong parallel to the US nuclear industry: it had just about recovered from TMI but is now set back further decades because of Fukushima. We're not sacrificing countries. We saw that we have built our project on (legal) sand, and we're moving to rectify the situation. The patient may lose some tissue about this but he will live, and after the wounds have healed, will be healthier than before. I'm talking all flowery because this is the talk list. If you want hard facts, go to legal-talk. I read legal-talk occasionally, and have not been convinced that the illness is more dangerous than the medicine. Regards, Alex ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
this occurred to me while surveying speed limits in a somewhat rural part of the US. are any of the routing engines looking at the surface tag as part of their decision making? i ask this because in NY, the default speed limit in rural areas is 55 on all roads. there are numerous unpaved roads (dirt, gravel) which do not have posted speed limits, but where driving at 55 is not reasonable unless you're a rally driver and the road is closed. i want to tag these accurately, and am doing so, but i should think that the routing engines ought to avoid, when possible, this combination or others like it: highway=unclassified name=Mead Road maxspeed=55 mph surface=dirt richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
Hello Richard, Gosmore looks at maxspeed and tracktype. I did not use surface, because I am under the impression that it is possible to drive fast on properly maintained dirt roads in dryer regions. Regards, Nic On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: this occurred to me while surveying speed limits in a somewhat rural part of the US. are any of the routing engines looking at the surface tag as part of their decision making? i ask this because in NY, the default speed limit in rural areas is 55 on all roads. there are numerous unpaved roads (dirt, gravel) which do not have posted speed limits, but where driving at 55 is not reasonable unless you're a rally driver and the road is closed. i want to tag these accurately, and am doing so, but i should think that the routing engines ought to avoid, when possible, this combination or others like it: highway=unclassified name=Mead Road maxspeed=55 mph surface=dirt richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
2011/4/15 Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net: i ask this because in NY, the default speed limit in rural areas is 55 on all roads. highway=unclassified name=Mead Road maxspeed=55 mph surface=dirt I suggest you also add source:maxspeed=US:NY:rural or sth. similar to the roads with no explicit maxspeed sign. Have a look here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
On 4/15/11 10:53 AM, Nic Roets wrote: Hello Richard, Gosmore looks at maxspeed and tracktype. I did not use surface, because I am under the impression that it is possible to drive fast on properly maintained dirt roads in dryer regions. interesting. i haven't been setting tracktype because these are named roads with a mixture of residences, farms, or other businesses along them and so end up with highway=unclassified instead of track but setting tracktype in this case seems a reasonable way to signal the road condition. the roads i'm looking at generally fall under grade2 or grade3 standards. richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
Frederik Ramm wrote: It would be very hard to construct something of that kind. The most common thing is certainly going to be the above third case, where you have the right to distribute data under CC-BY-SA or maybe even ODbL or maybe you even have the right to distribute it under any license with a BY component, but you do not have the right to authorize a third party (OSMF) to perform such distribution. For data of your fourth kind you would have to have a data provider who says you can use my data under CC-BY-SA or ODbL, and you have the right to sublicense not only under these licenses, but you also under these licenses plus the additional privilege of further sublicensing. I'm not aware of such a situation even existing. Looking at the imports catalogue ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue ), there seem to be a number of imports that have an explicit licensing of CC-BY-SA or ODbL and thus sound like they fall into that category (e.g. plan.at or Afghanistan Roads). So they would be compatible with the OSM license, but not the CT. In addition, it is imho not clear that not some of the many imports listed as Attribution licensed wouldn't fall into this category, too (rather than in category 3 as CC-BY). I thought that the new CTs were supposed to fix this issue by only requiring people to give the full rights they them selves own and then vouch for that the data is also compatible with the current licensing. But it sounds like that clause was dropped again in CTs 1.2.4? (At least that is how I understood the recent discussion on legal-talk). So we are back to nothing is compatible with the CTs other than a PD (like) license? -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/OpenStreetMap-License-Change-Phase-3-begins-Sunday-tp6272616p6276776.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
On 4/15/11 11:30 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2011/4/15 Richard Weltyrwe...@averillpark.net: i ask this because in NY, the default speed limit in rural areas is 55 on all roads. highway=unclassified name=Mead Road maxspeed=55 mph surface=dirt I suggest you also add source:maxspeed=US:NY:rural or sth. similar to the roads with no explicit maxspeed sign. Have a look here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed thanks. there are a bunch of interesting things on that page. richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] CC-BY-SA still available?
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: He knows perfectly well, because he has been told a thousand times, that one of the countries where CC-BY-SA doesn't work for our data is his country of residence, the USA. Being told something is not equivalent to knowing it. There is absolutely no evidence that CC isn't recognised for map data in the United States. He has gone on record, multiple times, saying that he likes the CC-BY-SA precisely because he belives that it doesn't work. I'm not sure what you mean by the intentionally ambiguous phrase doesn't work. CC-BY-SA works exactly as intended. In fact, the license even explicitly states its intent: Nothing in this License is intended to reduce, limit, or restrict any uses free from copyright or rights arising from limitations or exceptions that are provided for in connection with the copyright protection under copyright law or other applicable laws. In any case, my question was what jurisdiction does not recognize CC for map data. I think my message was entirely in order. Even a newbie could be expected to read at least a few articles of background on our Wiki before engaging in a discussion. Anyone reading e.g. http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Why_CC_BY-SA_is_Unsuitable would immediately be informed that the USA is one of the countries in which CC-BY-SA won't work for our data. Again with the intentionally ambiguous phrase won't work. And again, being told something is not equivalent to knowing it. As you probably know, Anthony's account on OSM has been terminated because he openly boasted about violating copyright. That is completely untrue. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: The revert script used to remove Anthony's edits (which were traced from Google) was a basic revert script which only used API methods. There were also mistakes made like reverting the items anthony had deleted only after most of the cleanup/improvement work had already been done. Live an learn. Except that you haven't learned. By reinstating edits which I had created and then later deleted, you have failed to remove all my contributions (and created a bigger mess). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, David Murn wrote: Out of interest Grant, what other large-scale open source projects have changed their licence the way that OSM has? In fact, changed their licence full-stop..? Wikipedia went from GFDL to CC-BY-SA. Wikipedia went from GFDL to a GFDL/CC-BY-SA dual license - with the help of the FSF. If OSMF wanted to go from CC-BY-SA to a CC-BY-SA/ODbL dual license, that would greatly simplify things. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] CC-BY-SA still available?
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: CC-BY-SA works exactly as intended. In fact, the license even explicitly states its intent: Nothing in this License is intended to reduce, limit, or restrict any uses free from copyright or rights arising from limitations or exceptions that are provided for in connection with the copyright protection under copyright law or other applicable laws. This is a fundamental principle of free licenses. Any license which does not contain such a provision, is not a free license. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
You are assuming that all dirt roads will be well-maintained, and that all dirt roads are in dry regions. Both assumptions are false. Most of the eastern half of the USA, and the Pacific Northwest of the USA, get plenty of rainfall, and even the dryer regions get some rainfall, some of it heavy enough to erode an unpaved roadway. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines From :mailto:nro...@gmail.com Date :Fri Apr 15 09:53:24 America/Chicago 2011 Hello Richard, Gosmore looks at maxspeed and tracktype. I did not use surface, because I am under the impression that it is possible to drive fast on properly maintained dirt roads in dryer regions. Regards, Nic On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: this occurred to me while surveying speed limits in a somewhat rural part of the US. are any of the routing engines looking at the surface tag as part of their decision making? i ask this because in NY, the default speed limit in rural areas is 55 on all roads. there are numerous unpaved roads (dirt, gravel) which do not have posted speed limits, but where driving at 55 is not reasonable unless you're a rally driver and the road is closed. i want to tag these accurately, and am doing so, but i should think that the routing engines ought to avoid, when possible, this combination or others like it: highway=unclassified name=Mead Road maxspeed=55 mph surface=dirt richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
Hi, On 04/15/2011 05:55 PM, Kai Krueger wrote: I thought that the new CTs were supposed to fix this issue [...] I have answered on legal-talk. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
On 2011-04-14 21:18, Alex Ruddick wrote: If NEII's (and others) are removed, we can add the United States to Australia as 'countries the OSMF is willing to sacrifice.' I'm not afraid that NEII's contributions are lost because he states on his user page: All of my edits are released into the public domain. (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2) Bye, Andreas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 20:36:34 +0200 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 04/15/2011 05:55 PM, Kai Krueger wrote: I thought that the new CTs were supposed to fix this issue [...] I have answered on legal-talk. Bye Frederik Frederick, it has occurred to me that if you are unhappy with what is discussed on talk, you could unsubscribe. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:36:55 -0400 Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: this occurred to me while surveying speed limits in a somewhat rural part of the US. are any of the routing engines looking at the surface tag as part of their decision making? i ask this because in NY, the default speed limit in rural areas is 55 on all roads. there are numerous unpaved roads (dirt, gravel) which do not have posted speed limits, but where driving at 55 is not reasonable unless you're a rally driver and the road is closed. i want to tag these accurately, and am doing so, but i should think that the routing engines ought to avoid, when possible, this combination or others like it: highway=unclassified name=Mead Road maxspeed=55 mph surface=dirt richard Navit considers the highway type and the surface type. Exactly what speed you expect to do for those parameters is user configurable in a config file. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
At 2011-04-12 11:56, Michael Collinson wrote: This is to let you know the license change process is moving to Phase 3 [1] very shortly. What exactly will be done with the existing data, and when? Understanding what happens to objects and their parents/siblings/children based on the license acceptance of the original creator/intermediate editors/last editor is key to deciding whether I should accept or decline. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
What worries me here is that there are all these versions of the document, the licenses etc. How are you going to deal with different people agreeing to different contracts at different times? mike On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 7:08 AM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.comwrote: On 14 April 2011 21:06, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote: - Original Message - From: andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com Under the Contributor Terms 1.2.4 I believe it will be the OpenStreetMap Foundation's responsibility to remove such data before switching the license, you will not be liable. Until then the data will only be distributed under CC-By-SA and you can accept these new Contributor Terms by which you would be granting OSMF only the rights which you are able to grant. I'm not sure if my interpretation is correct and if it's not then I would like to know the correct interpretation to be able to give an answer to people asking about this in non-English forums. see this thread (in particular Fracis Davey's comments) on the legal talk mailing list http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2011-April/005915.html So my understanding now, from Francis' comment, is that CC-By-SA and CC-By are not compatible (you can't accept the CTs if you've contributed data obtained under those licenses, without infringing those licenses?), but ODbL for example might be compatible with CT although it's not compaitble with the current OSM's license. But it might be in the future. Is that correct? Is that also the intent of the CTs 1.2.4? I think it would be good to have a human readable form of this document written by its authors. I haven't read the CC-By-SA license code in this context but I'm reading in Francis' response that there's something in it that makes it not compatible. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova and Albania flossk.org flossal.org ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Hoping you can point me in the right direction.
oops think I sent this to talk-IT too... Original Message Subject: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Re: Hoping you can point me in the right direction. Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:58:25 -0700 From: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com To: talk@openstreetmap.org Original Message Subject:Re: Hoping you can point me in the right direction. Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:00:51 +1000 From: R Lynch r.ly...@ddsnsw.com.au To: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com Sorry yes thank you Sent from my iPhone On 12/04/2011, at 8:10 AM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com mailto:st...@asklater.com wrote: you mailed the OSMF board which isn't set up or designed to help with what you want, we have mailing lists with people who can help you though, so I'm offering to connect you to them On 4/11/2011 3:11 PM, R Lynch wrote: Steve, Sorry im lost, What do you mean mailing list? Robert Sent from my iPhone On 12/04/2011, at 7:40 AM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com mailto:st...@asklater.com wrote: Robert Can I forward this to our mailing lists? Steve On 4/10/2011 7:44 PM, Robert Lynch wrote: Hi Steve, My name is Robert Lynch and I am the owner of a few small transport companies in Australia. Over the past 12 months I have been building a new transport, logistics and recruitment software to Launch in Australia. As part of this software we are looking for routing solutions and direct guidance for the drivers and a few other unique developments for this industry. Currently there is nothing like this in the market place and can be quickly replicated for other areas around the world. What i would like to do is speak with someone to see how we can partner up through a Joint venture or any other means. I hope to hear from you soon *_Robert F. Lynch_* *Head office: 1300 400 450* *Direct line: (02) 8093-1207* *Fax:(02) 8093-1243* *Mobile:0403 753 371* mime-attachment.png */PART OF THE DYNAMIC GROUP OF COMPANIES/* We now do Point-to-Point in Sydney: *www.dynamicexpress.com.au;* http://www.a-p-m.com.au/ Formally All Purpose Messengers; Delivering Excellent since 1954*/__/* This email and any attached files are confidential. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by return email, and delete the original. All outgoing emails and attached files are virus scanned, but we do not represent that this email and any attached files are free from computer viruses or other defects. Further, we do not accept any liability for any damage caused by this email or attachments mime-attachment.jpg mime-attachment.jpg mime-attachment.png mime-attachment.jpg ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
Alan, On 04/15/2011 11:01 PM, Alan Mintz wrote: What exactly will be done with the existing data, and when? Understanding what happens to objects and their parents/siblings/children based on the license acceptance of the original creator/intermediate editors/last editor is key to deciding whether I should accept or decline. I don't think this is cast in stone yet, and it is unlikely to be cast in stone any time soon. In my opinion (and I am not part of OSMF board or LWG), it is very likely that the process will be a fuzzy one, where easy cases are decided automatically and everything else by the community. Personally I do not expect any rules about this to be devised until long after we've entered phase 4. If you are interested in the process, I believe there are lots of opportunities to participate. Be reminded that you are asked to agree to a contract with OSMF (the CT); you are not asked whether or not you like the way OSMF goes about implementing that contract. It is important to separate these two. Even if there already *were* plans on how exactly to implement things, these plans would *not* become part of the contract; they could be changed the minute after you have agreed to the CT. Also, it is not unlikely that the OSMF board overseeing the license changeover in phase 5 will be quite different from the board we have now (as there will be elections at SOTM). Thus it doesn't make any sense to say that you want to base your agreement or non-agreement to the CT on whatever plans there may or may not be for dealing with objects that have been touched by many people. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Thus it doesn't make any sense to say that you want to base your agreement or non-agreement to the CT on whatever plans there may or may not be for dealing with objects that have been touched by many people. How else does the community vote on this transition then? I've asked about this several times and haven't heard a response. Perhaps someone thinks I'm trolling? Quite the opposite: I've asked people privately specifically to keep trolls from exploiting my question and starting a flamewar. (Mostly because I feel responsible for being the first person to ask such a question and causing the subsequent destruction of the talk@ mailing list: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-December/045105.html) At what point was the entire (active) OSM community asked if they wanted to relicense their data? If they haven't (I certainly wasn't) then when will we? Is this accept/decline that vote? If so, how do I vote no? How do I vote yes but withhold the option of changing my vote when I see the final license? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
On 15 April 2011 23:21, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: At what point was the entire (active) OSM community asked if they wanted to relicense their data? If they haven't (I certainly wasn't) then when will we? Is this accept/decline that vote? If so, how do I vote no? How do I vote yes but withhold the option of changing my vote when I see the final license? Well, I'm not trolling either, though this probably isn't the answer you were looking for. Still, it's one way of breaking what seems to be a deadlock: Ian, could I ask you to consider agreeing to license your work to date under ODbL? And in addition, to agree to the new CTs, which seem to me to contain important provisions to avoid orphaning our map data if for some reason we are not around to agree to some later legally significant point that a significant majority of the Community active at that time agrees is necessary? So now that you've been asked, the discussion can turn in the IMHO more productive direction of dealing with actual concerns with the change rather than the protocol. Dermot -- -- Igaühel on siin oma laul ja ma oma ei leiagi üles ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: On 15 April 2011 23:21, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: At what point was the entire (active) OSM community asked if they wanted to relicense their data? If they haven't (I certainly wasn't) then when will we? Is this accept/decline that vote? If so, how do I vote no? How do I vote yes but withhold the option of changing my vote when I see the final license? Well, I'm not trolling either, though this probably isn't the answer you were looking for. Still, it's one way of breaking what seems to be a deadlock: Thanks for asking me (if this were a vote my answer would be No, but in the interest of moving on from this nonsense and keeping data flowing I'll eventually say Yes), but the important part of my question was everyone else -- the community of OpenStreetMap. When were *they* asked? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
On 16 April 2011 00:07, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for asking me (if this were a vote my answer would be No, but in the interest of moving on from this nonsense and keeping data flowing I'll eventually say Yes), but the important part of my question was everyone else -- the community of OpenStreetMap. When were *they* asked? FWIW I would have favoured earlier specific requests for a vote, but it's basically been an impossible position for the LWG from what I can see as an outsider. On the one hand, everybody wants to feel consulted about the change. On the other, plenty of people have complained throughout the process about being offered a half-baked solution. Turns out this stuff is complicated. I'm not the first person to say so on the lists, but it seems to bear repeating - the process has not been a secret, the key details of what problem the change attempts to solve have been documented for a long time now and absolutely anybody with a thirst for knowledge on the matter has had many resources at his or her disposal. When I first became aware of the documentation and read it, I certainly felt consulted, and very soon after it became possible to indicate approval, it was clear to me both that the promoters of the change wished me to do so (at that point I felt asked) and how I might go about doing so. As of Sunday, we are now aware, those not yet to vote yes are to asked to vote yes or no. It remains unclear whether an OSMF message is to be a part of this asking - I would tend to feel this would be a good thing, as some mappers just wanna have fun^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H map, and may well not know about this process at all. Many mappers have had concerns and actual difficulties with some of the consequences of the changes. Some of them have engaged positively in the process to try and find an accommodation. Many... quite frankly haven't. I started mapping with OSM in good faith and expecting good faith from other mappers. So far I have only been disappointed by those mappers who willfully vandalised the map or undermined it through tainted data. This licence change now gives every mapper the means of undermining the map through withholding of their own data, once freely given and now very likely a foundation of data created by other mappers, also in good faith. I understand that many mappers feel they _can't_ relicense some or all of their work, and that's a really tough situation. But mappers who just plain _won't_ agree to leave their data in, even though there is no legal obstacle to it, should strongly consider whether they are being true to the community they claim to be a part of. Dermot -- -- Igaühel on siin oma laul ja ma oma ei leiagi üles ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
On 16 April 2011 01:29, Dermot McNally derm...@gmail.com wrote: This licence change now gives every mapper the means of undermining the map through withholding of their own data, once freely given and now very likely a foundation of data created by other mappers, also in good faith. I understand that many mappers feel they _can't_ relicense some or all of their work, and that's a really tough situation. But mappers who just plain _won't_ agree to leave their data in, even though there is no legal obstacle to it, should strongly consider whether they are being true to the community they claim to be a part of. At this point it's only known that there's an unspecified non-zero part of the community which wants OSM to switch license. Not everyone needs to be true to that part of the community just like not everyone needs to be true to the part that wants OSM data in Public Domain or the part that drinks coffee with milk etc. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 Pre-Announcement
Dermot McNally wrote: FWIW I would have favoured earlier specific requests for a vote, but it's basically been an impossible position for the LWG from what I can see as an outsider. No, the vote part really isn't that difficult. Wikipedia managed to hold a vote on their licensing change. In fact the Contributor terms states a procedure to hold a vote for a licensing change. Just that LWG appears to have decides to apply those rules only for a future license change and not for the current one. (Which legally seems well within the current CTs) It would still be perfectly possible to follow the rules that are specified in the CT for a license change, for the current proposed change as well. Dermot McNally wrote: But mappers who just plain _won't_ agree to leave their data in, even though there is no legal obstacle to it, should strongly consider whether they are being true to the community they claim to be a part of. Until there is a clear vote of the community to determine what they want it is impossible to say which side of the debate is true to the community. At the moment, we simply don't know. And so it is unhelpful to accuse long time OSM enthusiasts as not being true to the community because they disagree with your opinion. Many of them have the community just as much at hart as the proponents. They just disagree or are unsure on the effects this change will have on it. Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/OpenStreetMap-License-Change-Phase-3-Pre-Announcement-tp6266295p6278003.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 20:36 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 04/15/2011 05:55 PM, Kai Krueger wrote: I thought that the new CTs were supposed to fix this issue [...] I have answered on legal-talk. We dont care if you answered on a podcast sent to the moon. The question was asked here, and if you believe that discussion should belong on legal-talk, Ive got over 200 messages from the last 4 days that disagree and believe the issue is of great enough importance to not be hidden away. As much as you might like feeling superior that you read a legal list, most of us really couldnt give a toss, and simply want answers to our questions. If youre not prepared to answer them concisely (other than keeping on pointing at a mailing list archive) then would you please kindly sit down and STFU? I dont think Im the only one getting sick of you fobbing off tricky questions in the same generic way, if you dont know the answer, dont say anything and leave it up to those who DO know the answer. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap License Change Phase 3 begins Sunday
2011/4/16 David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au: On Fri, 2011-04-15 at 20:36 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: I have answered on legal-talk. that disagree and believe the issue is of great enough importance to not be hidden away. it is not hidden away, and you don't even have to be subscribed to legal talk to read it: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/ cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
On 16 April 2011 00:36, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: i ask this because in NY, the default speed limit in rural areas is 55 on all roads. there are numerous unpaved roads (dirt, gravel) which do not have posted speed limits, but where driving at 55 is not reasonable unless you're a rally driver and the road is closed. Pfft, I was taught to drive on gravel roads, and they can be perfectly safe to drive on at 100km/hr in places, but you have to be familiar with the stretch of road you're on and drive for the condition etc. i want to tag these accurately, and am doing so, but i should think that the routing engines ought to avoid, when possible, this combination or others like it: highway=unclassified name=Mead Road maxspeed=55 mph surface=dirt Dirt isn't very useful information imho, in Australia dirt roads could be made of gravel, black soil, red soil etc, and knowing the type of dirt road is useful, gravel roads are often still usable after lots of rain, but you definitely don't want to do black soil roads after heavy rain. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
On 16 April 2011 01:30, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest you also add source:maxspeed=US:NY:rural or sth. similar to the roads with no explicit maxspeed sign. Well he said 55mph is the default maximum for unsigned roads, wouldn't it be more useful for routing software to know that, than keep track of a bunch of strings that may or may not be documented properly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
On 4/15/11 11:16 PM, John Smith wrote: On 16 April 2011 00:36, Richard Weltyrwe...@averillpark.net wrote: i ask this because in NY, the default speed limit in rural areas is 55 on all roads. there are numerous unpaved roads (dirt, gravel) which do not have posted speed limits, but where driving at 55 is not reasonable unless you're a rally driver and the road is closed. Pfft, I was taught to drive on gravel roads, and they can be perfectly safe to drive on at 100km/hr in places, but you have to be familiar with the stretch of road you're on and drive for the condition etc. and you know, i have rally racing experience, and 70 mph on dirt doesn't scare me, but i'm not every driver and you haven't seen these roads. what i'm after are parameters so that the routing engines present rational results to drivers who aren't me. so why don't we focus on the actual problem in front of us instead of posturing about our driving skills. richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
On 16 April 2011 13:25, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: what i'm after are parameters so that the routing engines present rational results to drivers who aren't me. so why don't we focus on the actual problem in front of us instead of posturing about our driving skills. Well you seemed to have skipped my next comment about describing what sort of dirt road they are. As for describing conditions, you could describe sections of the road as being corrugated or potholed etc... That sort of information is useful even on tarred roads... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] question for folks working on routing engines
On 16 April 2011 13:43, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 April 2011 13:25, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: what i'm after are parameters so that the routing engines present rational results to drivers who aren't me. so why don't we focus on the actual problem in front of us instead of posturing about our driving skills. Well you seemed to have skipped my next comment about describing what sort of dirt road they are. As for describing conditions, you could describe sections of the road as being corrugated or potholed etc... That sort of information is useful even on tarred roads... I actually wrote a comment to the talk-au list about having accurate map data, and not just for navigation. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2011-April/007874.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Veerse Meer
LEnnard, Ik voel mij niet in de positie om jouw noeste arbeid in twijfel te trekken. Ik was echter niet in de positie (op het werk) om in JOSm te kijken. Wel zag ik op de map dat het verkeerd was. Bedankt voor het fiksen. Was Tavernses dankbaar voor de reverts? ;-) Groet Robert -Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: Lennard Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:02 PM To: talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Veerse Meer On 14-4-2011 22:29, Lennard wrote: Die import is al van lang geleden, ergens vorig jaar. De huidige drooglegging zal dus niets anders zijn dan een mapper aan het werk. Zo, gefixt. De enige werkbare methode was het reverten van een berg changesets van Tavernsenses. Het enige dat sneuvelde, zover ik kan zien, zijn wat pieren op de Schutteplaat. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl --- Tekst ingevoegd door Panda GP 2011: Als het hier gaat om een ongevraagde e-mail (SPAM), klik dan op de volgende link om de e-mail te herclasseren: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_4709SPAM=truepath=C:\Windows\system32\config\systemprofile\AppData\Local\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Global%20Protection%202011\AntiSpam --- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Veerse Meer
On 15-4-2011 21:58, Robert Elsenaar wrote: Ik voel mij niet in de positie om jouw noeste arbeid in twijfel te trekken. Ik was echter niet in de positie (op het werk) om in JOSm te kijken. Wel zag ik op de map dat het verkeerd was. Bedankt voor het fiksen. Was Tavernses dankbaar voor de reverts? ;-) Geen idee. Het was laat, ik heb geen contact opgenomen. Het was echter een enorme zooi, met vlakken die opgeknipt waren, tags die verplaatst waren (water was opeens gras), het Veerse Meer zelf die geen aaneengesloten buitenste ring vormde, etc. Ook landvlakken langs het water waren op deze manier kapotgeknipt. Geknoei in Potlatch2. De edits (een dozijn changesets) waren klein, maar op deze manier wel destructief. Een quick revert was de effectiefste manier om het op te lossen. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[talk-au] Fw: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Re: Hoping you can point me in the right direction.
Someone local to this guy want to speak with him? Begin forwarded message: Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:58:25 -0700 From: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com To: t...@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Re: Hoping you can point me in the right direction. Original Message Subject:Re: Hoping you can point me in the right direction. Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:00:51 +1000 From: R Lynch r.ly...@ddsnsw.com.au To: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com Sorry yes thank you Sent from my iPhone On 12/04/2011, at 8:10 AM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com mailto:st...@asklater.com wrote: you mailed the OSMF board which isn't set up or designed to help with what you want, we have mailing lists with people who can help you though, so I'm offering to connect you to them On 4/11/2011 3:11 PM, R Lynch wrote: Steve, Sorry im lost, What do you mean mailing list? Robert Sent from my iPhone On 12/04/2011, at 7:40 AM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com mailto:st...@asklater.com wrote: Robert Can I forward this to our mailing lists? Steve On 4/10/2011 7:44 PM, Robert Lynch wrote: Hi Steve, My name is Robert Lynch and I am the owner of a few small transport companies in Australia. Over the past 12 months I have been building a new transport, logistics and recruitment software to Launch in Australia. As part of this software we are looking for routing solutions and direct guidance for the drivers and a few other unique developments for this industry. Currently there is nothing like this in the market place and can be quickly replicated for other areas around the world. What i would like to do is speak with someone to see how we can partner up through a Joint venture or any other means. I hope to hear from you soon *_Robert F. Lynch_* *Head office: 1300 400 450* *Direct line: (02) 8093-1207* *Fax:(02) 8093-1243* *Mobile:0403 753 371* mime-attachment.png */PART OF THE DYNAMIC GROUP OF COMPANIES/* We now do Point-to-Point in Sydney: *www.dynamicexpress.com.au;* http://www.a-p-m.com.au/ Formally All Purpose Messengers; Delivering Excellent since 1954*/__/* This email and any attached files are confidential. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by return email, and delete the original. All outgoing emails and attached files are virus scanned, but we do not represent that this email and any attached files are free from computer viruses or other defects. Further, we do not accept any liability for any damage caused by this email or attachments mime-attachment.jpg mime-attachment.jpg mime-attachment.png mime-attachment.jpg Original Message Subject: Re: Hoping you can point me in the right direction. Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:00:51 +1000 From: R Lynch r.ly...@ddsnsw.com.au To: Steve Coast st...@asklater.com Sorry yes thank you Sent from my iPhone On 12/04/2011, at 8:10 AM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: you mailed the OSMF board which isn't set up or designed to help with what you want, we have mailing lists with people who can help you though, so I'm offering to connect you to them On 4/11/2011 3:11 PM, R Lynch wrote: Steve, Sorry im lost, What do you mean mailing list? Robert Sent from my iPhone On 12/04/2011, at 7:40 AM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: Robert Can I forward this to our mailing lists? Steve On 4/10/2011 7:44 PM, Robert Lynch wrote: Hi Steve, My name is Robert Lynch and I am the owner of a few small transport companies in Australia. Over the past 12 months I have been building a new transport, logistics and recruitment software to Launch in Australia. As part of this software we are looking for routing solutions and direct guidance for the drivers and a few other unique developments for this industry. Currently there is nothing like this in the market place and can be quickly
[talk-au] ABS CodePlay
An Australian Bureau of Statistics initiative to help drive collaboration between students, developers and national and international statistical agencies. http://data.gov.au/2770/contest-abs-codeplay/ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ABS CodePlay
On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 15:21:59 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: An Australian Bureau of Statistics initiative to help drive collaboration between students, developers and national and international statistical agencies. http://data.gov.au/2770/contest-abs-codeplay/ that link is to a comment spot rather than to information have you got another link? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-br] Videos sobre Geoprocessamento
Pessoal, Recebi hoje um link com uma série de vídeos falando sobre geoprocessamento. É bem interessante.. Fala sobre o episódio do Haiti.. http://geospatialrevolution.psu.edu/ -- Djavan Fagundes E-mail | xmpp: dja...@comum.org http://djavan.comum.org/blog/ http://butequeiro.comum.org/ http://comum.org ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 31, assunto 7
Oi Mauro, Abaixo está o link com todas as cidades http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/Brasil_250_Cidades/Lista_Completa_de_Cidades http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/Brasil_250_Cidades/Lista_Completa_de_Cidades Você pode buscar as coordenadas digitando os nomes das cidades aqui: http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/ Qualquer outra dúvida é só falar. Abs, Vitor http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/Brasil_250_Cidades/Lista_Completa_de_Cidades 2011/4/15 Mauro Borowsky mauro...@gmail.com Vitor como faço para ajudar a colocar as coordenadas? Mauro Em 14/04/2011 08:00, talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org escreveu: Enviar submissões para a lista de discussão Talk-br para talk-br@openstreetmap.org Para se cadastrar ou descadastrar via WWW, visite o endereço http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ou, via email, envie uma mensagem com a palavra 'help' no assunto ou corpo da mensagem para talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org Você poderá entrar em contato com a pessoa que gerencia a lista pelo endereço talk-br-ow...@openstreetmap.org Quando responder, por favor edite sua linha Assunto assim ela será mais específica que Re: Contents of Talk-br digest... Tópicos de Hoje: 1. Re: Brasil 5500 (vitor) 2. Re: Brasil 5500 (Rodrigo de Avila) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 14:09:25 -0300 From: vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com vitor.geo...@gmail.com To: OSM talk-br talk-br@openstreetmap.org talk-br@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-br] Brasil 5500 Message-ID: banlktinh+mgz2okvce4_xqj9wrigayj...@mail.gmail.com banlktinh+mgz2okvce4_xqj9wrigayj...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Pessoal, Atualizei o relatório: http://mapaslivres.org/brasil5500.html http://mapaslivres.org/brasil5500.html http://mapaslivres.org/brasil5500.htmlVi que foram colocadas 100% das coordenadas do ES, parabéns! Agora é só ver as conexões que faltam. Só queria avisar para que não sejam colocadas no wiki coordenadas com separador decimal de vírgula. Abs, Vitor 2011/4/12 vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com vitor.geo...@gmail.com Olá Pessoal, Gostaria de apresentar para vocês o projeto Brasil 5500. Basicamente, é um projeto para colocar todas as cidades brasileiras no mapa. Fiz um script que testa a conexão entre entre cidades-pólo e cidades dentro de um mesmo estado. Os resultados podem ser vistos aqui: http://mapaslivres.org/brasil5500.html Como devem ter percebido, não estão todas as 5562 cidades brasileiras. Para que todas estejam aí, será necessário buscar as coordenadas que estão faltando e adicionar aqui: http://goo.gl/WZQIw *Quem quiser adicionar coordenadas, me avise que eu mando o compartilhamento.* Periodicamente postarei o relatório, utilizando as coordenadas que estão nesta planilha. O script precisa ainda de alguns ajustes, como por exemplo marcar rotas tortuosas. Sugestões são bem vindas! Bom mapeamento! Vitor -- Próxima Parte -- Um anexo em HTML foi limpo... URL: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-br/attachments/20110413/528540b9/attachment-0001.html http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-br/attachments/20110413/528540b9/attachment-0001.html -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 14:14:56 -0300 From: Rodrigo de Avila rodr...@avila.net.br rodr...@avila.net.br To: OSM talk-br talk-br@openstreetmap.org talk-br@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-br] Brasil 5500 Message-ID: BANLkTi==aa-aq6afy2__p4vangvxsk7...@mail.gmail.com BANLkTi==aa-aq6afy2__p4vangvxsk7...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Será que a gente não consegue as coordenadas de todos os municípios usando o Xapi? http://developer.mapquest.com/web/products/open/xapi -- Rodrigo de Avila Analista de Desenvolvimento rodr...@avila.net.br ? www.avila.net.br Em 13 de abril de 2011 14:09, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com vitor.geo...@gmail.com escreveu: Pessoal, Atualizei o relatório: http://mapaslivres.org/brasil5500.html http://mapaslivres.org/brasil5500.html http://mapaslivres.org/brasil5500.htmlVi que foram colocadas 100% das coordenadas do ES, parabéns! Agora é só ver as conexões que faltam. Só queria avisar para que não sejam colocadas no wiki coordenadas com separador decimal de vírgula. Abs, Vitor 2011/4/12 vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com vitor.geo...@gmail.com Olá Pessoal, Gostaria de apresentar para vocês o projeto Brasil 5500. Basicamente, é um projeto para colocar todas as cidades brasileiras no mapa. Fiz um script que testa a conexão entre entre cidades-pólo e cidades dentro de um mesmo estado. Os resultados podem ser vistos aqui: http://mapaslivres.org/brasil5500.html Como devem ter percebido, não estão todas as 5562 cidades brasileiras. Para que todas
Re: [Talk-de] Schreibweise von Hausnummern
koppenho schrieb: Hallo *, wie taggt man am besten folgende addr:housenumber-Angaben: 1. Hausnummer mit Buchstabenzusatz: Trage ich immer ohne Leerzeichen zwischen Nummer und Buchstabe ein. 2. Hausnummer mit Zusatz Einhalb: 42 1/2? Das ist vermutlich ok, aber kommt damit eine Zielort-Suche klar? 3. Hausnummernbereiche - große Gebäude oder Firmen haben oft mehrere Hausnummern: 5-9 oder 5 - 9, mit oder ohne Leerzeichen erfassen? Was ist besser? Die Fragen wurden vermutlich schon öfter gestellt. Nur leider finde ich nichts dazu... Ich biete noch 24.1 Rainer ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Schreibweise von Hausnummern
Hallo Andreas. Soweit ich bisher gelesen und selbst getan habe, tagge ich die Hausnummern unter addr:housenumber so, wie sie auf dem Schild bzw. in der Adresse steht. Hausnummern mit Zusatz folgen schon national in Deutschland keinen einheitlichen Regeln - da gibt es 42 1/2, 1 a, 1 A, 1a, 1A und vermutlich noch viel mehr, international aber noch viel weniger. Ich weiß nicht mehr genau, wo das war, aber in mindestens einem Land werden Hausnummern nach Entfernung vom Straßenende vergeben. Einen Standard zu finden, der hier ein nicht-existentes Schema berücksichtigt, ist deshalb vermutlich unmöglich. Deshalb tagge ich Zusätze so, wie sie auf dem Schild stehen. Gruß Peter Am 15.04.2011 06:07, schrieb koppenho: Hallo *, wie taggt man am besten folgende addr:housenumber-Angaben: 1. Hausnummer mit Buchstabenzusatz: Trage ich immer ohne Leerzeichen zwischen Nummer und Buchstabe ein. 2. Hausnummer mit Zusatz Einhalb: 42 1/2? Das ist vermutlich ok, aber kommt damit eine Zielort-Suche klar? 3. Hausnummernbereiche - große Gebäude oder Firmen haben oft mehrere Hausnummern: 5-9 oder 5 - 9, mit oder ohne Leerzeichen erfassen? Was ist besser? Die Fragen wurden vermutlich schon öfter gestellt. Nur leider finde ich nichts dazu... ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel Phase 3 beginnt am Sonntag
Frederik Ramm schrieb: Rainer Knaepper wrote: Knuffig ist, daß ich einer rechtsverbindlichen Vereinbarung zustimmen soll, die ich nicht verstehe. Es gibt inoffizelle Uebersetzungen. Wenn Du auf die Wikiseite zu den Contributor Terms schaust http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms - dort sind alle verlinkt. Die deutsche Version ist auf dem allerneusten Stand. Finde ich prima, daß man dafür in ML nachfragen muß, warum ist das auf dem Zustimmungsformular nicht verlinkt? Dermot hat uebrigens recht, wenn er sagt, dass das bei der Anmeldung schon immer so war. Es geht nicht um Recht haben. Wenn Du Dich nicht gerade im letzten Jahr angemeldet hast, dann hast Du einen komplett englischen Anmeldeprozess mit Link auf eine englische Lizenz durchlaufen, von der es lediglich inoffizielle Uebersetzungen gab (rechtsverbindlich war immer das englische Original). CC-Lizenzen gibt es seit 2004 auch auf deutsch, wobei sich die deutsche Version im Wesentlichen nicht von der englischsprachigen unterscheidet und nur ein paar Anpassungen an die Besonderheiten deutschen Urheberrechts enthält. Wenn man in den Grundzügen mit CC übereinstimmt, kann man auch eine englische Anmeldeprozedur durchlaufen. Was will Dermot beweisen? Problematisch ist die Sache allerdings in der Tat nicht fuer Deutsche, sondern fuer Sprecher von Sprachen, fuer die wir keine Uebersetzung haben. Hier kann man sich auf den Standpunkt stellen, dass bei der CC-BY-SA wenigstens eine inoffizielle Uebersetzung da war, bei unseren CT aber gar nichts. Allerdings sind auch unsere sonstigen Tools in aller Regel nicht so breit uebersetzt, so dass man hoffen darf, dass die meisten Teilnehmer, die z.B. aus Osteuropa mitmachen, Englisch koennen. Ein englischsprachiges Tool zu benutzen oder einen rechtsverbindlichen Text zu verstehen sind doch wohl zwei SEHR unterschiedliche Dinge. Würdest Du einen Kaufvertrag unterschreiben, der Dir nur auf Kisuaheli vorliegt und von dem Dir irgend ein flüchtiger Bekannter sagt Ja, paßt schon!? Ich habe schon einmal eine Lizenzumstellung miterlebt, die Tücken liegen oft in Details, auf die ein juristisch Ungebildeter beim Durchlesen im Leben nicht kommt. Ich lasse mich gerne davon überzeugen, daß die ODbL die bessere Lösung ist, aber das ist alles ziemlich erbärmlich kommuniziert worden. Wenn man etwas von seinen (freiwilligen) Mitarbeiten will, muß man auf die ZUGEHEN, und nicht die Brocken vor die Nase setzen und sagen den Rest sucht auch mal selbst zusammen. Nur zur Verklaring: Mein Rant richtet sich nicht gegen die Schreiber hier in der Liste, die sich redlich bemühen, Probleme aller Art zu lösen. Rainer ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Schreibweise von Hausnummern
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 06:07:42AM +0200, koppenho wrote: Hallo *, wie taggt man am besten folgende addr:housenumber-Angaben: 1. Hausnummer mit Buchstabenzusatz: Trage ich immer ohne Leerzeichen zwischen Nummer und Buchstabe ein. 2. Hausnummer mit Zusatz Einhalb: 42 1/2? Das ist vermutlich ok, aber kommt damit eine Zielort-Suche klar? 3. Hausnummernbereiche - große Gebäude oder Firmen haben oft mehrere Hausnummern: 5-9 oder 5 - 9, mit oder ohne Leerzeichen erfassen? Was ist besser? Die Fragen wurden vermutlich schon öfter gestellt. Nur leider finde ich nichts dazu... Das es da nichts einheitliches gibt werden die Präprozessoren das alles koennen muessen. Gerade spaces sind wirklich technisch kein problem und ob das 238a oder 38 a spielt keine rolle. Und was 42 1/2 angeht - Ich glaube nicht das das offiziell ist. Da hat sich jemand einen Scherz geleistet :) Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de „Für eine ausgewogene Energiepolitik über das Jahr 2020 hinaus ist die Nutzung von Atomenergie eine Brückentechnologie und unverzichtbar. Ein Ausstieg in zehn Jahren, wie noch unter der rot-grünen Regierung beschlossen, kommt für die nationale Energieversorgung zu abrupt.“ Angela Merkel CDU 30.8.2009 signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Darstellung von geotagged Bildern in OSM
Hallo Kolossos, ich weiss meine ursprüngliche Anfrage ist schon lange her, aber bis jetzt hatte ich leider noch keine Zeit mich mit Openlayers zu befassen. Gibt es zufällig eine eteas umfangreichere Beschreibung, zu dieser Lösung? Grüße hike39 Am 09.10.2010 00:24, schrieb Kolossos: Schau mal: http://toolserver.org/~kolossos/openlayers/commons-on-osm.php?zoom=16lat=51.05738889lon=13.73836111 Das ganze basiert auf einer je nach Bildausschnitt aus einer Datenbank neu erzeugten KML, wenn es um max. 1000 Bilder geht, würde auch ein statisches KML-file reichen. Es wäre auch ein leichtes statt den Icons kleine Bildchen anzuzeigen. Grüße Kolossos hike39 schrieb: Hallo, ich bin auf der Suche nach einer Möglichkeit Photos, die ich über das JOSM-Addon Photo Geotagging mit Positionsinfos versehen habe, auch in OSM anzeigen zu lassen. Gibt es hierzu schon eine Lösung? Ich habe gerade überall im Wiki und in den dt. Diskussionsgruppen gesucht, aber leider nichts gefunden. hike39 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mapnik deutscher Kartenstil: fehlende Bezeichnung von Flüssen
yobiSource yobisou...@googlemail.com wrote: ich erstelle gerade SLD Styles für Geoserver und orientiere mich dabei am deutschen Mapnik Kartenstil. Mir ist dabei aufgefallen das in der Datei layer-water.xml.inc (im Gegensatz zum englischen Stil) waterway=river keine Bezeichnung hat aber drain und ditch sehr wohl. Hat das einen bestimmten Grund warum mehrere Meter breite Flüsse nicht bezeichnet werden aber kleine Bäche usw. schon? Lustigerweise werden Flüsse in Tunneln wieder bezeichnet. :) Wie wäre es wenn Du uns einfach eienn patch machen würdest? Gruss Sven -- Der wichtigste Aspekt, den Sie vor der Entscheidung für ein Open Source-Betriebssystem bedenken sollten, ist, dass Sie kein Windows-Betriebssystem erhalten. (von http://www.dell.de/ubuntu) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Schreibweise von Hausnummern
Hallo Florian, Von: Florian Lohoff [mailto:f...@zz.de] Gesendet am: Freitag, 15. April 2011 10:02 ... Und was 42 1/2 angeht - Ich glaube nicht das das offiziell ist. Da hat sich jemand einen Scherz geleistet :) Flo Nö, bei uns in Augsburg gibt es die offiziell. Das Extrem ist Schertlinstraße 11 1/218, in dem Komplex gibt es auch noch 11 1/.. a Wenn ein Flurstück an der Straße ist und mit mehreren Gebäuden bebaut wird, bekommt das erste x 1/2, das nächste x 1/3 usw. Häuser in zweiter Reihe erhalten dann a, 3. Reihe b usw. Gibt es mind. in Bayern öfters, macht aber immer wieder Spaß bei einigen Adressprogrammen ;) Viele Grüße Dietmar ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Tag für Bauunternehmer
Hallo zusammen, hat jemand von Euch einen Tipp wie man Büros oder Gelände von Bauunternehmern taggt? Dies schließt natuerlich Hoch- und Tiefbau ein. Gruß hike39 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tag für Bauunternehmer
Am 15.04.11 10:20, schrieb hike39: Hallo zusammen, hat jemand von Euch einen Tipp wie man Büros oder Gelände von Bauunternehmern taggt? Dies schließt natuerlich Hoch- und Tiefbau ein. Wenn es dir um den Bauhof geht: landuse=industrial industrial=construction_company Wenn es dir um die (Büro-)Zentrale geht: building=yes office=construction_company oder hier nachschlagen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:craft Gruß, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel Phase 3 beginnt am Sonntag
Am Freitag, 15. April 2011, um 09:42:40 schrieb Rainer Knaepper: Nur zur Verklaring: Mein Rant richtet sich nicht gegen die Schreiber hier in der Liste, die sich redlich bemühen, Probleme aller Art zu lösen. Sondern? Gegen die dick bezahlten Bosse, die sich im Hauptquartier der OSMF den ganzen Tag ihren dicken Ledersessel platt drücken? Alle im Projekt OSM sind Freiwillige. Alle Sachgebiete sind darauf angewiesen, dass jemand mit macht. Scheinbar hat das Engagement der Freiwilligen eben nicht dafür gereicht, jedem alles auf dem Silbertablett zu servieren. Mach halt auch mit und hilf dabei. Oder sei froh, dass es überhaupt eine deutsche Übersetzung gibt. Und wer wirklich ein Problem damit hat einen englischsprachigen Vertrag (von dem es nur eine unverbindliche Übersetzung gibt) einzugehen, der soll es halt lassen. Dieses Na, na na, ich könnte das aber anfechten, wenn ich ein böser Bub wär nervt nämlich gewaltig. Jeder ist mündig genug zu sagen ist mir zu heikel, ich lass es sein. Gruß, Bernd -- Das Ärgerlichste in dieser Welt ist, daß die Dummen todsicher und die Intelligenten voller Zweifel sind. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Schreibweise von Hausnummern
Am 15. April 2011 06:07 schrieb koppenho koppe...@online.de: 1. Hausnummer mit Buchstabenzusatz: Trage ich immer ohne Leerzeichen zwischen Nummer und Buchstabe ein. ich auch 2. Hausnummer mit Zusatz Einhalb: 42 1/2? Das ist vermutlich ok, aber kommt damit eine Zielort-Suche klar? m.E. ist das nicht Einhalb sondern 1 von 2 (Vermutung). Einhalb würde ich evtl. so eintragen: ½ 3. Hausnummernbereiche - große Gebäude oder Firmen haben oft mehrere Hausnummern: 5-9 oder 5 - 9, mit oder ohne Leerzeichen erfassen? Was ist besser? ich würde es ohne Leerzeichen machen, aber im Prinzip ist es egal Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Schreibweise von Hausnummern
Nachtrag zum Thema kuriose Hausnummern: die Null habe ich auch schon gefunden: http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/5258357 und so was hier fand ich auch schön absurd ;-) http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/6281418? Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mapnik deutscher Kartenstil: fehlende Bezeichnung von Flüssen
Am 15.04.2011 10:11, schrieb Sven Geggus: Wie wäre es wenn Du uns einfach eienn patch machen würdest? Da muss nur wie im englischen Stil folgende Zeile bei den River Definitionen rein: TextSymbolizer name=name fontset_name=book-fonts size=9 fill=#6699cc halo_radius=1 placement=line spacing=400 / Ab zoom 14 mit size=10 Gibt es den jemanden der am deutschen Stil gearbeitet hat und sagen kann ob das ein Bug ist oder aus einen bestimmten Grund so gemacht wurde? (gerade in Bezug auf die Umrandung der Gebäudeflächen) MfG yobiSource ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tag für Bauunternehmer
Je nachdem, was mit Bauunternehmer gemeint ist, oft bezeichnen sich Rohbaufirmen so (=Maurer/Betonbauer, ggf. Stahlbauer, Tiefbaufirmen), und je nach Größe um industrial oder ggf. craft. Bauunternehmer im rechtlichen Sinn sind alle Firmen, die Bauleistungen anbieten, es kommt darauf an, welche Leistungen erbracht werden (Fachunternehmer, Generalunternehmer, Totalunternehmer, Generalübernehmer) (einzelnes Gewerk, alle/die meisten Gewerke, einschl. Planungsleistungen, Ausführung überwiegend durch Subunternehmer). Einzelne Gewerke können mit craft angegeben werden. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel Phase 3 beginnt am Sonntag
Am 14. April 2011 19:44 schrieb Chris66 chris66...@gmx.de: Am 14.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Manuel Reimer: Genau dieser Zwitter-Zustand, der jetzt schon ewig andauert, beginnt zumindest mich so langsam zu nerven. +1 +1 wieso sollen immer noch weiter die Daten mit vermutlich zukünftig inkompatiblen Edits belastet werden? Wenn jemand Probleme hat, aufgrund von einzelnen (oder allen Edits) der ODbL zuzustimmen, dann kann der ja verläufig mit einem neuen Account weitermachen. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel Phase 3 beginnt am Sonntag
Am 14. April 2011 20:09 schrieb Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: ist es vielleicht auch gar nicht so schlecht, wenn man vom Lizenzwechsel durch einen Mapper aus der eigenen Stadt erfaehrt (und vorallem auch: in der eigenen Sprache) Ich hoffe, dass diese Rundmail jeweils in der eigenen Sprache (evtl. zweisprachig engl. / lokal) verschickt wird. So was zu übersetzen sollte uns vor keine allzu großen Probleme stellen, und Zeitdruck scheint es ja nicht zu geben ;-) Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel Phase 3 beginnt am Sonntag
Am 14. April 2011 22:37 schrieb Rainer Knaepper sm...@gmx.de: Frederik Ramm schrieb: http://openstreetmap.org/user/terms Knuffig ist, daß ich einer rechtsverbindlichen Vereinbarung zustimmen soll, die ich nicht verstehe. wobei es schon ein paar Dokumente gibt, die versuchen, es Dir auch auf Deutsch zu erklären. So ist das nunmal in einer globalisierten Welt, wenn man an einem Projekt in England teilnimmt. Ich hätte kein Verständnis, wenn die OSMF für viel Geld den Vertrag in zig Sprachen rechtsverbindlich übersetzen ließe, obwohl es rechtlich nicht erforderlich ist. Von daher ist hier eigentlich der falsche Ort fürs Lamentieren, Du müsstest Dich an den deutschen Gesetzgeber wenden, der solche Verträge zulässt --- was in anderen Ländern übrigens teilweise anders ist, weshalb die OSMF für wenige andere Sprachen rechtsverbindliche Übersetzungen anbieten muss. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Schreibweise von Hausnummern
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer schrieb: Nachtrag zum Thema kuriose Hausnummern: die Null habe ich auch schon gefunden: http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/5258357 Entschuldigung, ist das hier Hausnummer LXII? Nein, dies ist LXIII, aber es ist heruntergefallen ein I Rainer ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mapnik deutscher Kartenstil: fehlende Bezeichnung von Flüssen
Am 15. April 2011 12:25 schrieb yobiSource yobisou...@googlemail.com: Gibt es den jemanden der am deutschen Stil gearbeitet hat und sagen kann ob das ein Bug ist oder aus einen bestimmten Grund so gemacht wurde? (gerade in Bezug auf die Umrandung der Gebäudeflächen) Ich habe da zwar nicht daran mitgearbeitet, aber den Grund kenne ich vermutlich: der deutsche Stil basiert auf einer älteren Version des offiziellen Mapnik-stils, wo Umrandungen von Gebäuden noch nicht drin waren. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel Phase 3 beginnt am Sonntag
2011/4/15 Rainer Knaepper sm...@gmx.de: Was will Dermot beweisen? Beweisen nichts, sondern nur verstehen. Es scheinte und scheint mir noch, dass du bei der ersten OSM Anmeldung auf gleicher Art eine Liste auf Englisch von verbindlichen Bedingungen zur Teilnahme zugestimmt hast. Und dann, wie auch heute, hättest du die Option gehabt, dich von inoffiziellen aber glaubwürdigen Communityquellen in der Muttersprache zu informieren. Deine Aussage finde ich gerade so überraschend weil es seit lange deutsche Übersetzungen gibt - jeder, der danach gesucht hat hätte mit Sicherheit was gefunden, oder? Dermot -- -- Igaühel on siin oma laul ja ma oma ei leiagi üles ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] itoworld Layers
Am 14. April 2011 21:23 schrieb Johannes Huesing johan...@huesing.name: Die neuen Hervorhebungen von ITO World sind ziemlich schmuck, aber es wird wieder etwas als Fehler gebrandmarkt, was hier viele nicht als Fehler empfinden. Mir ist hier http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ITO_Map#Buildings_and_addresses aufgefallen. Gebäudeumrisse, die keine Hausnummer und keinen Hausnamen haben, werden rot dargestellt, so, als ob hier ein Manko herrschte. Dabei halten es viele so und verteidigen dies auch auf dieser Liste so, dass die Adressen als einzelne Punkte in den Gebäudeumriss oder an dessen Rand gesetzt werden. naja, das ist evtl. zwar Ansichtssache, ein Node ist aber in dem Fall fast immer schlechter als ein Polygon, korrekterweise/idealerweise am Grundstück (bei kleineren Einheiten) bzw. am Gebäude/Treppenaufgang/etc. wo es jeweils gilt. Was sind denn ausser besserem Rendering die Argumente für einen Node? Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tag für Bauunternehmer
Genau dort habe ich nachgesehen. Leider ist dieser Tag dort noch nicht aufgeführt. Aber ich möchte mich dennoch recht herzlich für die schnelle Antwort bei Dir und Martin bedanken. hike39 Am 15.04.2011 11:40, schrieb André Joost: oder hier nachschlagen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:craft ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tag für Bauunternehmer
Am 15. April 2011 15:30 schrieb hike39 ho...@hike.de: oder hier nachschlagen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:craft Genau dort habe ich nachgesehen. Leider ist dieser Tag dort noch nicht aufgeführt. ja, eine der OSM-Wiki-Seiten, wo zig Details aufgeführt sind und die wichtigsten Dinge (zumindest aus dem Bauhandwerk) allesamt fehlen * oder z.T. falsch übersetzt sind. So eine DetailSeite wie die hier: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:craft%3Dcarpenter hätte man auch ruhig mal diskuttieren können, dann würde nicht so ein Zeugs wie Zimmermann=Tischler (carpenter=joiner) oder Zimmermann=Möbeltischler (carpenter=cabinet_maker) empfohlen (Tischler==Schreiner für die Süddeutschen). Strukturellen Holzbau (=Zimmermann) würde ich auf jeden Fall vom Innenausbau / Möbelbau unterscheiden. Gruß Martin * Nämlich die Rohbaugewerke, d.h. diejenigen, die das eigentliche Gebäude erstellen: Rohbauer (Maurer, Beton- und Schalungsbauer, Stahlbauer, Zimmerleute (die sind zwar da, aber als Schreiner bezeichnet auf der dt Seite)). ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tag für Bauunternehmer
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer schrieb: Am 15. April 2011 15:30 schrieb hike39 ho...@hike.de: oder hier nachschlagen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:craft Genau dort habe ich nachgesehen. Leider ist dieser Tag dort noch nicht aufgeführt. ja, eine der OSM-Wiki-Seiten, wo zig Details aufgeführt sind und die wichtigsten Dinge (zumindest aus dem Bauhandwerk) allesamt fehlen * oder z.T. falsch übersetzt sind. Dann mach doch mal. Du bist doch vom Fach ;-) -- Gruß, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Holzbereich in craft
Aufgrund eines parallelen Threads schlage ich vor, den Holzbereich im Wiki zu überarbeiten. Grundsätzlich würde ich zwischen strukturellen Arbeiten (tragende Bauteile wie Wände und Dach) und Innenausbau/Möbelherstellung unterscheiden. Die Grenzen sind da zugegebenermaßen teilweise etwas schwammig, eine Holztreppe kann einem sowohl der Schreiner als auch der Zimmermann herstellen (je nachdem, welche Toleranzen man will ;-) ), aber prinzipiell gibt es schon diese Unterscheidung. Ich würde carpenter als das definieren, was im Deutschen ein Zimmermann ist. Joiner könnte man als Tischler verwenden. Untergruppen wären site_joinery (Bautischler) und fine_joinery / cabinet_maker (Möbeltischler), wobei es da (wie überall bei craft) durchaus auch kulturelle Unterschiede gibt (gem. Wikipedia sind joiner Leute, die Verbindungen ohne Nägel herstellen). Geigenbauer würde ich nicht in diese Kategorie packen, kann man aber evtl. auch streiten drüber. Messebauer / Bühnenbauer (scenic) bin ich mir nicht sicher, einerseits sind das oft (z.T. ungelernte) Monteure von Fertigsystemen, andererseits machen das schon auch Zimmerleute. Schiffsbauer (Schiffszimmerer) könnte man, soweit es um Holzschiffe geht, aus meiner Sicht als Untergruppe der Zimmerer sehen. Kunststoff, Stahl- und Betonschiffe werden naturgemäß von anderen Gewerken (oft auch industriell) hergestellt. Fensterbauer, soweit sie Holzfenster herstellen, sind auch verwandt mit den Schreinern (aber auch mit den Glasern). Im Wiki gibt es neben craft bisher das hier http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:craft%3Dcarpenter Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tag für Bauunternehmer
Am 15. April 2011 16:47 schrieb Andre Joost andre+jo...@nurfuerspam.de: ja, eine der OSM-Wiki-Seiten, wo zig Details aufgeführt sind und die wichtigsten Dinge (zumindest aus dem Bauhandwerk) allesamt fehlen * oder z.T. falsch übersetzt sind. Dann mach doch mal. Du bist doch vom Fach ;-) schon angefangen. Ist leider nicht so einfach, da es da kulturelle Unterschiede gibt. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] ?Mapnik deutscher Kartenstil: fehlende Bezeichnung von Flüssen
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Ich habe da zwar nicht daran mitgearbeitet, aber den Grund kenne ich vermutlich: der deutsche Stil basiert auf einer älteren Version des offiziellen Mapnik-stils, wo Umrandungen von Gebäuden noch nicht drin waren. Das ist ziemlich sicher der Grund. AFAIK suchen wir für den deutschen Stil Maintainer. Sven -- Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly (Henry Spencer) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mapnik deutscher Kartenstil: fehlende Bezeichnung von Flüssen
yobiSource yobisou...@googlemail.com wrote: Da muss nur wie im englischen Stil folgende Zeile bei den River Definitionen rein: TextSymbolizer name=name fontset_name=book-fonts size=9 fill=#6699cc halo_radius=1 placement=line spacing=400 / Ab zoom 14 mit size=10 Poste das doch mal im diff format, dann würd ich es gleich im SVN einchecken. Gruss Sven -- /* * Wirzenius wrote this portably, Torvalds fucked it up :-) */(taken from /usr/src/linux/lib/vsprintf.c) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Holzbereich in craft
Am 15. April 2011 17:00 schrieb Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: um das abzukürzen: just do it :) ich danke Dir für das Vertrauen, aber leider ist das gar nicht so einfach. Carpenter ist wohl doch eher eine generische Bezeichnung, so was wie Holzverarbeiter, d.h. ein Zimmermann ließe sich evtl. besser als framer übersetzen. Ich würde dann allerdings diese nicht alle im carpenter gruppieren, sondern die Subklassen gleich in die obere Ebene packen. Wikipedia:en wird halt auch viel von Ausländern geschrieben ;-), Leo bringt einen auch nicht weiter. Evtl. geht es so: joiner=Bautischler (=Schreiner Innenausbau) framer (od. carpenter) = Zimmermann cabinet_maker=Möbeltischler (=Möbelschreiner) scheint hingegen eindeutig zu sein. Dazu kommt, dass es Schnittmengen immer gibt in diesen Bereichen, im Prinzip macht Dir jeder Handwerker (fast) alles (na ja gut, übertrieben), aber i.d.R. ist man besser bedient, wenn man den Spezialisten nimmt. Vielleicht sollte man auch noch ein Spezialgebiet taggen können, vor allem, wenn man mit den Daten was anfangen will, z.B. gezielt jemanden suchen, der sich auf Messebau oder Bühnenbildherstellung spezialisiert hat. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Hilfe: Leere Relation E 54 Europastraße
Hallo zusammen, wie gesagt: die Relation 77040, Europastraße E 54 ist leer, und dass mit der Version 455. Laut http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Europe/E-road_network muss sie mal zu 70% gemapped gewesen sein. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/77040/history hilft leider nicht, Request dauert zu lange. Wie kann ich die letzte nicht-leere Version zurück holen. Ich erinnere mich, dass ich selbst vor 2 Jahren den Radweg D 11 geleert hatte und Frederik Ramm das Ding restaurieren konnte - nur wie geht's. Danke, Toni ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Hilfe: Leere Relation E 54 Europastraße
Am 15. April 2011 19:46 schrieb Toni Erdmann toni.erdm...@web.de: Hallo zusammen, wie gesagt: die Relation 77040, Europastraße E 54 ist leer, und dass mit der Version 455. Das ist der Link zur Version 454: http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/relation/77040/454 Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Hilfe: Leere Relation E 54 Europastraße
Am 15.04.2011 19:53, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Am 15. April 2011 19:46 schrieb Toni Erdmanntoni.erdm...@web.de: Hallo zusammen, wie gesagt: die Relation 77040, Europastraße E 54 ist leer, und dass mit der Version 455. Das ist der Link zur Version 454: http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/relation/77040/454 Danke Martin, also rein damit in JOSM und hochladen: gefixed? Gruß, Toni ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de