[talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] OSM goes (almost) in the 4ht dimension

2014-08-30 Thread Eugene Alvin Villar
Hi everyone,

If you have the traditional 3D glasses (the one with the red and cyan
filter), you might find this stereo 3D OSM-history map quite amazing. Read
the forwarded email below for details. :)

~Eugene


-- Forwarded message --
From: Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr
Date: Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 1:34 AM
Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM goes (almost) in the 4ht dimension
To: OpenStreetMap t...@openstreetmap.org


For the impatient having red/cyan 3D glasses, first stop is :
http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/leaflet/4d.html

otherwise:
https://cquest.hackpad.com/OpenStreetMap-goes-in-the-4th-dimension--ju3XWhj2qAV

Have fun ! (OSM's second law)
-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
On 27 August 2014 22:06, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
 There is no license issue. No copyright-protected data is being added
 to OSM. No cordinates from Wikidata are being added to OSM. No text
 from Wikidata is being added to OSM.

While there may not be a problem in this case, and I'm actually quite
supportive of the proposed addition of the wikidata tags, I'm not
convinced that this argument is completely correct.

Take UK postcodes for example. Suppose that postcodes themselves are
non-copyrightable identifiers, but their locations are subject to
database rights. Suppose we have a copyrighted database of each
address with it's location and postcode. For each address we could
search OSM for objects that may represent houses/businesses in the
vicinity of the location in the database. In cases where there is
exactly one match within say 10m of the location, we could safely
assume that the postcode belongs on that object.

Suppose we automatically add the postcodes to these objects. We
arguably haven't added any copyrighted data to OSM, and certainly
haven't added any coordinates from the copyrighted database. But what
we'd end up with in OSM is a list of postcoded objects with OSM
coordinates that are pretty much the same (within 10m anyway) as those
in the original database. It seems to me that the owner of the
postcode database would have cause to complain that the OSM data is a
derived work of their database.

The use case for wikidata is slightly different, since (as I
understand it) the location data is being used more as a filter than
as a primary matching tool. But I think we may need to be a bit more
careful. Perhaps LWG should be asked for their opinion...

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Simon Poole
There are three aspects to your question.

1) wikidata is licensed on CC0 terms, essentially that boils down to no
restrictions on use at all. Looking at it from the WMFs position we can
link to wikidata data as much as we want, however on the other hand the
WMF does not guarantee or warrant in any form that the contents of
wikidata are free of any rights of third parties.

2) My understanding of the WMFs position is that they state that there
is no copyright on facts and that is it. This leaves the onus of
determining if a certain item in wikidata is problematic (for example
for use in OSM) clearly in the lap of the user. There was, when I was
talking to the wikidata people in May, some discussion of clearly
identifying the source of an wikidata statement for example in the case
of OSM derived data, but I don't know if that has actually happened.

3) To get back to your example, assume that the WMF got hold of a
geo-referenced list of UK post codes per building and imported it in to
wikidata and we, either linked in lieu of the post code to wikidata
(addr:postcode:wikidata=Q) or extracted them and applied them
directly to OSM objects. I suspect (this can naturally only be
speculation) that in both cases we would be in big trouble and there is
legally no argument to prefer one over the other.

Simon

Am 30.08.2014 12:02, schrieb Robert Whittaker (OSM lists):
 On 27 August 2014 22:06, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
 There is no license issue. No copyright-protected data is being added
 to OSM. No cordinates from Wikidata are being added to OSM. No text
 from Wikidata is being added to OSM.
 
 While there may not be a problem in this case, and I'm actually quite
 supportive of the proposed addition of the wikidata tags, I'm not
 convinced that this argument is completely correct.
 
 Take UK postcodes for example. Suppose that postcodes themselves are
 non-copyrightable identifiers, but their locations are subject to
 database rights. Suppose we have a copyrighted database of each
 address with it's location and postcode. For each address we could
 search OSM for objects that may represent houses/businesses in the
 vicinity of the location in the database. In cases where there is
 exactly one match within say 10m of the location, we could safely
 assume that the postcode belongs on that object.
 
 Suppose we automatically add the postcodes to these objects. We
 arguably haven't added any copyrighted data to OSM, and certainly
 haven't added any coordinates from the copyrighted database. But what
 we'd end up with in OSM is a list of postcoded objects with OSM
 coordinates that are pretty much the same (within 10m anyway) as those
 in the original database. It seems to me that the owner of the
 postcode database would have cause to complain that the OSM data is a
 derived work of their database.
 
 The use case for wikidata is slightly different, since (as I
 understand it) the location data is being used more as a filter than
 as a primary matching tool. But I think we may need to be a bit more
 careful. Perhaps LWG should be asked for their opinion...
 
 Robert.
 



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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Edward Betts
Edward Betts edw...@4angle.com wrote:
 Andrew Guertin andrew.guer...@uvm.edu wrote:
  1: Elsewhere in this thread it was mentioned that there are 22000 wikidata
  ids in OSM currently. Are there any objects which currently have a wikidata
  id that your code would assign a different id to? Similarly, are there any
  instances where your code would assign a wikidata id to something and a
  different object in OSM already has that wikidata id?
 
 I haven't checked for either of these conditions. These are both good points
 and I'll investigate.

I downloaded the existing set of wikidata tags and compared it with my list.
There are 281 cases where the OSM item tagged with a given wikidata ID is
different from the one picked by my code. Here is the list:

http://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/mismatches.html

-- 
Edward.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Edward Betts
Edward Betts edw...@4angle.com wrote:
 Edward Betts edw...@4angle.com wrote:
  Andrew Guertin andrew.guer...@uvm.edu wrote:
   1: Elsewhere in this thread it was mentioned that there are 22000 wikidata
   ids in OSM currently. Are there any objects which currently have a 
   wikidata
   id that your code would assign a different id to? Similarly, are there any
   instances where your code would assign a wikidata id to something and a
   different object in OSM already has that wikidata id?
  
  I haven't checked for either of these conditions. These are both good points
  and I'll investigate.
 
 I downloaded the existing set of wikidata tags and compared it with my list.
 There are 281 cases where the OSM item tagged with a given wikidata ID is
 different from the one picked by my code. Here is the list:
 
 http://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/mismatches.html

I've added OSM objects that link to a different Wikdata item to the end of
that page. There are 15 of them. Some were duplicates in Wikidata, the items
were merged, but OSM is pointing at the deleted item.

In some cases my match is more specific, for example: Tesla Factory (Q7705509)
instead of Tesla Motors (Q478214).

-- 
Edward.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Simon Poole
Edward, just so there is no misunderstanding: you are saying of the
21'000 odd wikidata tags 281 gave different results?

And if I understand the results correctly the majority of the 281 are
simply due to the wikidata tag not being on the place node but on the
corresponding admin boundary relation?

Plus 15 real errors?

Simon

Am 30.08.2014 14:53, schrieb Edward Betts:
 Edward Betts edw...@4angle.com wrote:
 Andrew Guertin andrew.guer...@uvm.edu wrote:
 1: Elsewhere in this thread it was mentioned that there are 22000 wikidata
 ids in OSM currently. Are there any objects which currently have a wikidata
 id that your code would assign a different id to? Similarly, are there any
 instances where your code would assign a wikidata id to something and a
 different object in OSM already has that wikidata id?

 I haven't checked for either of these conditions. These are both good points
 and I'll investigate.
 
 I downloaded the existing set of wikidata tags and compared it with my list.
 There are 281 cases where the OSM item tagged with a given wikidata ID is
 different from the one picked by my code. Here is the list:
 
 http://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/mismatches.html
 



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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Edward Betts
Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote:
 Edward, just so there is no misunderstanding: you are saying of the
 21'000 odd wikidata tags 281 gave different results?
 
 And if I understand the results correctly the majority of the 281 are
 simply due to the wikidata tag not being on the place node but on the
 corresponding admin boundary relation?
 
 Plus 15 real errors?

I compared my set of 70k suggested matches with the 21k of existing wikidata
tags.

There are 281 cases where a wikidata item in my list of suggested matches
already appears in OSM, but is linked to an object that is different from my
suggestion. 

Often that is because an entity appears in OSM as a node and a relation, my
code is matching the node.

The second list, contains 15 OSM objects that have a wikidata item that is
different from my suggestion.
-- 
Edward.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Edward Betts
SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote:
 * Personally, I'm actually fairly agnostic about the process of adding
 wikidata tags - I can't really see what I'd use them for myself, but am open
 to the possibility that someone could use them for something.  However, an
 important part of things in OSM is surely that they are on-the-ground
 verifiable - wikipedia has articles for villages in the UK that don't exist,
 as do the OS OpenData StreetView maps, and people have added garbage data
 from both to OSM.  How do we know that the wikidata items for which links
 are added are accurate?

I'm going to add wikidata tags to existing OSM objects. There is no risk of
adding villages that don't exist, because I'm not going to add any new
entities to OSM.

-- 
Edward.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Edward Betts
Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote:
  On 28 August 2014 09:09, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote:
  What you do avoid by not tagging in OSM is
  maintenance (given that OSM objects are not
  necessarily a persistent reference to a single real
  world entity).
  
  Very few Wikidata IDs will change (far fewer than Wikipedia article
  names, for instance; and far fewer than IDs or other tags in OSM).
  
  Again, this is a statistically-insignificant edge-case.
 
 I wasn't expecting wikidata IDs to change at all. OSM objects will get
 reused, copied, split, moved, deleted etc. leading to missing or wrong
 wikidata tags. Naturally these could be detected by re-running Edwards
 code, but that kind of proves my point.

I don't think 'humans will make mistakes in future' should be used as an
argument against an import of machine generated data.

If it becomes a big problem we could modify the editors to warn when multiple
items in a changeset have the same wikidata ID.

-- 
Edward.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Edward Betts
Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
 In my mind this is a good move and should be supported. Point 3 above could
 be resolved by running the script regularly to see if there are any new
 matches. There have also been some good suggestions on this list such as a
 KeepRight style (i.e. QA) map where problematic objects (e.g. script finds
 more than one match) can be manually reviewed, confirming whether the
 script conflicts with any existing wikidata tags in OSM, checking whether
 the script would add a wikidata tag to an object when there is already a
 different object in OSM with that wikidata tag, and a check on the 400m
 distance rule [2].
 
 Are these things possible Edward?

I can certainly make a list of cases where there are multiple OSM objects
matching a single Wikidata item. Building the interface for viewing and fixing
them might be more tricky, it is probably not something I can build right now.

I've written the code to look for conflicts. You can see the results here:

http://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/mismatches.html

I've been thinking about my choice of 400m for the matching. I'm going to
change the matching criteria to include a distance field, then set a low
distance (200m) for things like restaurants, and a much higher distance (50km)
for bigger areas, like national parks.

Thanks for the summary Rob, it is really helpful.
-- 
Edward.

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[OSM-talk] Downloading GPX data including metadata

2014-08-30 Thread Paul Johnson
Trying to solve a debate here, and folks would like to check this for
themselves:  The average speed of a given metro area.  As such, areas with
a lot of collected data and many US metro areas, like Dallas, either have
too much data or are geographically too large for the API.  What's the
easiest way to get an entire region's GPX data including metadata for
analysis?
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi,

On 08/29/2014 08:10 PM, Rob Nickerson wrote:
 Lets just step back and reflect on this for a minute. 

My overarching concern is that if this import is done, future imports
will use the but we also have Wikidata links argument for justification.

What we have here is a third-party database whose object identifiers we
add to OSM as tags in order to make linking things easier.

This is something that has often been requested by people but never been
granted on a large scale because we always said that it would be an
abuse of our database and our mapper's patience to offload everyone's
and their dog's linking requirements onto us.

Imagine every single stretch of road being tagged with three different
proprietary (or at least competing) identifiers of traffic information
providers, or similar payload tacked onto OSM.

I'm not saying no to a Wikidata import but I would like the proponents
to state clearly what makes this import special - why this and not, for
example, Ordnance Survey TOIDs or IDs of Mapillary photos?

I would like to define high hurdles for such an import. The import costs
us a lot (in terms of mappers having to spend time to understand the
tags and know how to handle them when they edit an object, more quality
checks, etc.), and it must be proven - or at least expected - to offset
that cost by making itself useful. It's ok of this particular import
clears the hurdles but at least I can then use the hurdles if the next
guy in line comes along and wants to import his keys too.

Also, I note that Rob wrote:

We have our own restrictions (verifiable on the ground, not changing to
frequently) in OSM. A link to wikidata allows us to continue with these
restrictions but still allow people to get at interesting non-geographic
data.

And Andrew said:

A few more points: This isn’t a deletionists’ charter and we shouldn’t
rush to unload any tagging onto Wikidata without discussing the removal
very carefully.

I am personally very much in favour of unloading non-geo-database
tagging elsewhere. We started with marking restaurants (useful) and
recording their names (also useful), classing them into fast-food or
proper restaurants, then tagging what cuisine they have and how to
contact them for booking a table, and meanwhile we're recording whether
they have vegan food and what their opening times are and whetehr you
can pay with bitcoin. We don't currently have anywhere to offload that
information which is all useful for certain use cases, but once we have
a working integration, I should very much hope that stuff like the menu
and the opening times will be recorded either in OSM or in Wikidata but
not both.

Allow me one question in that matter as a Wikidata ignorant though: Are
there any notability rules in Wikidata? For example, if we should one
day decide that restaurant opening times should not be recorded in OSM
but on Wikidata, can it then happen that someone records a restaurant's
opening times on Wikidata only to have that information kicked out by
someone else again for lack of relevance?

Because if that were the case, then Wikidata would be relatively useless
as a general offloading point for non-geodata.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Edward Betts
Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 What we have here is a third-party database whose object identifiers we
 add to OSM as tags in order to make linking things easier.
 
 This is something that has often been requested by people but never been
 granted on a large scale because we always said that it would be an
 abuse of our database and our mapper's patience to offload everyone's
 and their dog's linking requirements onto us.

What about all the references listed in this table? 

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref#Key_variations

There are 79k instances of the ref:INSEE key in OpenStreetMap.

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/ref%3AINSEE

-- 
Edward.

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[OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Rob Nickerson
Hi Fred,

The question of notability rules in Wikidata also crossed my mind.

At this stage we are asking the question is it worth linking existing OSM
data to existing wikidata via an automated process? The key word here is
automated - we are already manually adding the tags (20k so far) to OSM. As
such your question is less related to the import, but more related to the
long term database/tagging strategy in OSM. The import may however speed up
how quickly we need to start answering questions of where non-geographic
data lives (OSM or wikidata).

Like you, I see a lot of benefit of holding some data in wikidata. Picking
up the restaurant example we have always said that things like reviews
(including its food hygiene rating here in the UK) doesn't belong in OSM. I
have no urgent desire to start adding this sort of data to wikidata (or any
database) as I concentrate my time on mapping new things, but if I was to
add this to wikidata the question of notability rules would then be top of
my list - no point doing something if it then gets deleted as it is deemed
not notable!

Summary: Good question and some long term thinking required but the import
will, at most, only make this thinking need to be done sooner. We'll have
to cross this question even if this import doesn't occur.

Regards,
Rob
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi,

On 08/30/2014 11:58 PM, Edward Betts wrote:
 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 What we have here is a third-party database whose object identifiers we
 add to OSM as tags in order to make linking things easier.

 This is something that has often been requested by people but never been
 granted on a large scale because we always said that it would be an
 abuse of our database and our mapper's patience to offload everyone's
 and their dog's linking requirements onto us.
 
 What about all the references listed in this table? 
 
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref#Key_variations
 
 There are 79k instances of the ref:INSEE key in OpenStreetMap.
 
 http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/ref%3AINSEE

As far as I am aware, the external ID situations we currently have are
those where the external ID came in with an import (i.e. someone
imported schools and they came with a certain tag or so). No practical
use has been demonstrated but people like to have them nonetheless,
just in case.

I don't know of any instance of automated (or large-scale manual)
affixing of external IDs to existing OSM objects, at least none that was
discussed.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Michael Kugelmann

Am 29.08.2014 20:10, schrieb Rob Nickerson:

Lets just step back and reflect on this for a minute.
If we end um in this discussion with  a general yes for this import: 
why not use systems like maproulette to verify the data? This sounds 
better to me than a bulk import.



Just my 2 cents,
Michael.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding Wikidata tags to 70k items automatically

2014-08-30 Thread Eugene Alvin Villar
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Summary: Good question and some long term thinking required but the import
 will, at most, only make this thinking need to be done sooner. We'll have
 to cross this question even if this import doesn't occur.


Just to provide some background:

Wikidata has a notability policy:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability/Inclusion_criteria
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability/Exclusion_criteria

But this notability policy only pertains to whether there should be a
Wikidata item for some object, much like we in OSM ask if things like
administrative boundaries or flight paths should be included in OSM or not.

Then, Wikidata also has what are called statements, with properties and
values. This is roughly the counterpart of OSM's tags, keys, and values.
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Properties
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/all_in_one_table

Just like OSM, there is a discussion and process on managing properties,
but their processes are strictly enforceable unlike OSM's process for
voting for the approval of tags on the OSM Wiki.
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Properties_for_deletion
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Re: [Talk-is] Tenging stíga og rútun fyrir gangandi og hjólandi

2014-08-30 Thread Jóhannes Birgir Jensson

Path er ekki vinsælt heldur

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard/diary/20333

Ég ætla að kíkja á cycle.travel fólkið og gá hvernig gengur með að 
smella okkur þar inn og taka þetta áfram.


Þann 29.8.2014 14:08, skrifaði Morten Lange:

Hæ

Hef ekki náð að taka þátt í umræðunum, en þangað til niðurstaða er 
fengin ætti kannski að segja frá því á Wiki.openstreetmap.org að 
umræður séu í gangi á talk-is ?

--
Regards / Kveðja / Hilsen
Morten Lange, Reykjavík


*From:* Svavar Kjarrval sva...@kjarrval.is
*To:* talk-is@openstreetmap.org
*Sent:* Monday, 25 August 2014, 16:40
*Subject:* Re: [Talk-is] Tenging stíga og rútun fyrir gangandi og
hjólandi

Hæ.

Skoðaði highway=footway á wiki síðu OSM og þar er ekki gefið að
það skuli túlka sjálfgefið sem bicycle=no heldur gefið frjálst á
hvorn veginn það er túlkað af hálfu algrímanna. Ef við tökum
bicycle=yes af yrði það líklega mismunandi milli algrímanna hvort
þeir beini hjólafólki eftir stígum eða götum.

Einhverjar umræður hafa verið í gangi á aðalpóstlista OSM um
sjálfgefin gildi á tilteknum svæðum þar sem hægt væri að setja inn
sjálfgefnar stillingar í samræmi við lög og reglur sem gilda á
hverju svæði, svo ekki þurfi að merkja allt innan svæðisins með
einhverju sem gildir alls staðar. Veit samt ekki hvort eða hvenær
slíkar sjálfgefnar skilgreiningar yrðu innleiddar.

Persónulega hefði ég talið það eðlileg virkni fyrir hjólaumferð í
rútunaralgrímum að beina fólki á stíga ef það er styttri og/eða
öruggari leið, sérstaklega ef um er að ræða óvant hjólafólk.
Fólkið sem telur sig ráða við að hjóla á götum getur auðvitað
hunsað tillögu algrímanna um að nota stíga ef aðstæður leyfa, eða
fólkið sem semur algrímana geri ráð fyrir þessu og lagi algrímana
að þessum veruleika. Ef ég ætlaði að fara stystu leiðina fyrir
hjól myndi ég eðlilega vilja fá leiðarlýsingu þar sem ég get
notfært mér alla stíga sem ég má hjóla á.

Ef bicycle=yes yrði tekið af í Fellahverfinu, rútunaralgrímurinn
myndi túlka skortinn sem bicycle=no og ég myndi óska eftir
hjólaleið frá Völvufelli 11 og til Drafnarfells 2, þá myndi hann
mæla með því að ég myndi hjóla eftir götunni út Völvufellið og
síðan hringinn í kringum húsin meðfram Suðurfelli og Norðurfelli
áður en ég kemst á Drafnarfell. Með bicycle=yes myndi algrímurinn
mæla með því að ég myndi hjóla stuttan stíg norður að Drafnarfelli 2.
Með bicycle=yes:

http://openrouteservice.org/index.php?start=-21.824661,64.1007793end=-21.8247791,64.1012104pref=Bicyclelang=denoMotorways=falsenoTollways=false
Án bicycle=yes:

http://openrouteservice.org/index.php?start=-21.824661,64.1007793end=-21.8247791,64.1012104pref=Fastestlang=denoMotorways=falsenoTollways=false

Síðan eru auðvitað líklegri tilvik eins og ef einhver biður um
hjólaleið milli Seljahverfisins í Reykjavík og yfir í Lindahverfið
eða Salahverfið í Kópavogi (ekki endilega milli heimilisfanga sem
eru rétt hjá hvort öðru). Fyrri áhyggjurnar í þessari umræðu voru
einnig að OpenCycleMap birti of mikið af bláum leiðum sem eiga að
vera sérstakar hjólaleiðir. En ef merkja á stíga með bicycle=yes á
stígum sem eru ekki meðfram götum mun birtast hellingur af bláum
blettum á því korti ef reynt er að halda í rútunina. Ef úrval
slíkra stíga er of strangt mun fólk undrast af hverju tilteknir
stígar á kortinu urðu ekki fyrir valinu þegar þeir eru augljóslega
hentugri en sú leið sem var valin. Þetta er nokkurn veginn það sem
fólk er að lenda í þegar stígar eru ekki tengdir almennilega.

Tæknilega séð eigum við að merkja stíga sem eru fyrir ótilgreindar
tegundir óvélknúinnar umferðar sem highway=path. Gætum íhugað að
breyta highway=footway í highway=path nema á þeim stöðum þar sem
skilgreint er sérstaklega að stígurinn sé fyrir ákveðna umferð
eingöngu (eins og sérstaka hjólastíga). Þá getum við sleppt
bicycle=yes tagginu þar sem það er sjálfgefið og liturinn fyrir
það er ekki æpandi á OpenCycleMap.

Varðandi úrlausn myndi ég ekki mæla með því að stígar meðfram
götum yrðu teknir út enda myndi það brjóta nokkuð mikið í bága við
‚don't tag for the renderer‘ regluna (sem á einnig við um
rútanir). Það ferli að velja sérstaklega hvaða leiðir eru
viðeigandi og merkja þær (þar með talið koma sér saman um almenn
viðmið og viðhalda merkingum) getur alveg eins verið jafn
fyrirhafnarmikið og setja inn þveranir þar sem á við. Auk þess
væri það nokkuð selective tagging að fara að stunda það að velja
leiðir með þessum hætti og myndi vera langt frá því að leysa úr
rútunarvandanum fyrir gangandi vegfarendur (jafnvel með notkun á
sidewalk tagginu). Ef gögnin eru rétt og rútunaralgrímar eru að
mæla með einhverju röngu, þá á að leysa vandamálið í algrímunum
sjálfum en ekki með 

Re: [Talk-de] dev.openstreetmap.de

2014-08-30 Thread Christoph (TheFive@OSM)
Hallo Jörg,

aufrufen, bis 70 Zählen, und schon siehst du eine Seite :-)

Klappt wirklich.

Christoph

Am 29.08.2014 um 09:47 schrieb Jörg Frings-Fürst o...@jff-webhosting.net:

 Hallo,
 
 
 ist dev.openstreetmap.de offline?
 
 Ich bekomme keine Seite angezeigt :_(
 
 
 CU
 Jörg
 
 -- 
 Jörg Frings-Fürst
 OSM privat
 D-54526 Landscheid
 
 Threema: SYR8SJXB
 
 GPG Fingerprint: 13E3 4D4A 3228 D138 8511 EA5A 08AC AF02 3C6D 750A
 Full GPG key: hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
 CAcert Serialnr.: 0D:9A:23
 SHA1-Fingerprint: CA:36:4D:44:D1:71:4A:78:C8:6C:C2:CC:94:F3:6E:42:38:BA:CE:4E
 http://cacert.org
 
 
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[Talk-de] Wo Google besser ist als OSM

2014-08-30 Thread Stephan Knauss

Hallo,

ich kann meinen Google vs. OSM Kartenvergleich nun weltweit anbieten.

Damit sieht man schnell wo Google glaubt dass es Hauptstraßen gibt die 
bei OSM nicht verzeichnet sind.


Oder andersrum: Gegenden in denen wir noch Straßen von Luftbildern 
übernehmen sollten.


Ich habe das Ganze in meinem Blog beschrieben:
http://www.technologyblog.de/2014/08/wo-fehlen-bei-openstreetmap-noch-daten/

Die Kurzform: Ihr seht auf der Karte die Google Hauptstraßen und 
Gewässer bei denen es in OSM keine Entsprechung gibt. In perfekt 
gemappten Gebieten ist die Karte dann grau.


Wenn ihr eine Stelle genauer ansehen oder im Editor vom Luftbild abmalen 
wollt könnt ihr mit den Buttons auf der linken Seite den Bereich im 
Editor laden. Ich bevorzuge JOSM, sollte aber auch mit iD und Potlatch 
gehen.


http://compare.osm-tools.org/

Beim Armchair mappen könnt ihr euch nun auf die wirklich wichtigen 
Straßen konzentrieren.


Viel Spaß,

Stephan


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[Talk-it] Way or relation?

2014-08-30 Thread Federico Cortese
Ciao a tutti!
Mi è sorto un dubbio che vorrei esporvi: di solito quando più way adiacenti
o sovrapposte (siano esse building, landuse, leisure, highway, amenity o
altro) condividono una porzione di poligono, sono solito usare delle
relazioni.
Un esempio può essere questo: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/299872855,
dove sia la chiesa, che il giardino, che la piazza, che il convento, hanno
dei lati in comune, inoltre il convento è un amenity=university.
Con le relazioni non ho way sovrapposte e selezionando una singola linea,
mi rendo conto immediatamente di quali relazioni fa parte. Viceversa se non
usassi relazioni potrebbe capitare di avere anche molte way sovrapposte
(tipo building + amenity + landuse) e diventa difficile capire come è
costruita la grafica ma anche modificarla.
Credevo inoltre che in questo modo si risparmiasse peso nel DB, dal momento
che viene notevolmente ridotto il numero di way, mentre mi hanno fatto
notare che con le relazioni potrebbe venire appesantito il lavoro di
interpretazione della mappa.
In effetti facendo un giro veloce su OpenStreetMap non sono riuscito a
trovare altri casi di mappatura come il mio, perchè di solito le way
vengono sempre sovrapposte.
Ora non so se quest'ultima sia la linea comune da seguire o se si possa
fare indifferentemente come si ritiene più opportuno. Insomma è
sbagliato/non opportuno usare le relazioni come faccio io? Voi che ne
pensate?
Grazie.

Federico
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Re: [Talk-it] Way or relation?

2014-08-30 Thread Francesco Pelullo
Il 30/Ago/2014 10:19 Federico Cortese cortese...@gmail.com ha scritto:

 Ciao a tutti!
 Mi è sorto un dubbio che vorrei esporvi: di solito quando più way
adiacenti o sovrapposte (siano esse building, landuse, leisure, highway,
amenity o altro) condividono una porzione di poligono, sono solito usare
delle relazioni.

Per me è la tua soluzione è quella ideale.
Anzi, mi sembra l'unica utilizzabile per avere un minimo di topologia.

Considerazioni sulla complessità o sul peso nel database: io non me ne
preoccuperei. Innanzitutto, non si può escludere che tra qualche minuto
venga adottato qualche nuovo metodo di rappresentazione che comporti un
aumento esponenziale della difficoltà di interpretazione o del peso dei
dati nel database (a fronte di chissà quale beneficio). Poi, sono sempre
stato dell'idea che un progetto nato con l'ambizione di mappare il pianeta
debba dotarsi di risorse adeguate.

Ciao
/niubii/
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[Talk-it] Estrarre DWG da OSM

2014-08-30 Thread Luca Meloni
Ciao a tutti,
vorrei sapere se esiste un metodo efficace per ottenere delle carte leggibili 
(con sia strade che edifici) 
in formato DWG dalla mappa OSM. Ho provato a farlo con diverse procedure ma 
fin'ora l'unica cosa che ho ottenuto è stato un insieme di punti 
sparsi oppure una carta con solo la rete stradale. Ho già estratto il file .osm 
delle parti che mi servono dal 
sito e ho provato anche da 
http://osm-toolserver-italia.wmflabs.org/estratti/index.html , come dovrei 
proseguire?

Ciao di nuovo,
Luca
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Re: [Talk-it] Estrarre DWG da OSM

2014-08-30 Thread Maurizio Napolitano
2014-08-30 17:31 GMT+02:00 Luca Meloni lmelonim...@yahoo.it:
 Ciao a tutti,
 vorrei sapere se esiste un metodo efficace per ottenere delle carte
 leggibili (con sia strade che edifici) in formato DWG dalla mappa OSM. Ho
 provato a farlo con diverse procedure ma fin'ora l'unica cosa che ho
 ottenuto è stato un insieme di punti sparsi oppure una carta con solo la
 rete stradale. Ho già estratto il file .osm delle parti che mi servono dal
 sito e ho provato anche da
 http://osm-toolserver-italia.wmflabs.org/estratti/index.html , come dovrei
 proseguire?

il formato dwg è quanto di più chiuso ci sia e con cui autodesk
continua a tenere il predominio del settore.
L'unico passaggio che può stare in piedi è quello per il dxf
(visto che è il fratello meno cattivo del dwg).
Come convertitori ce ne sono diversi.
Consiglio di prendere gli estratti regionali in formato shp, aprirli
in qgis e salvarli in dxf

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Re: [Talk-it] Way or relation?

2014-08-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer


io mi comporto come te ed uso relazioni, per gli stessi motivi

ciao,
Martin

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Chamberlain Clock

2014-08-30 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 21 August 2014 15:34, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
 I note that the Chamberlain Clock in Birmingham's Jewellery Quarter:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/187104810

 does not render in the default map:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.48701/-1.91258

 It /is/ quite a landmark:

In another discussion, I've seen reference to the tag:

   landmark=

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-es] Normalización poblaciones

2014-08-30 Thread Javier Sánchez
¿Nadie más se anima a votar?... Es un tema serio.

¿Algún Lagunero o Teldense que opine?

Saludos.


El 29 de agosto de 2014, 12:35, Benjamín Valero Espinosa 
benjaval...@gmail.com escribió:

 En el caso de mi ciudad Orihuela, la diferencia es bastante exagerada.
 Aunque casualmente aún se quedaría en la misma categoría, la población del
 municipio completo supera los 90.000 habitantes, mientras que la población
 de la ciudad en sí ronda los 30.000, estando los otros 60.000 habitantes
 repartidos en pedanías rurales y en la costa, y para colmo a unos 30 km
 alrededor, es decir, que ni siquiera son áreas cercanas en un mapa. Hay
 otra ciudades como Lorca con mucho territorio rural donde les puede pasar
 algo parecido.

 Aunque me duela por quitarle importancia a mi pueblo, creo que se debería
 tener en cuenta la población de cada núcleo urbano, y no la de todo el
 municipio.




 El 29 de agosto de 2014, 12:55, Javier Sánchez javiers...@gmail.com
 escribió:

  Hola

 Revisando la normalización de los núcleos de población[1] me ha surgido
 la duda de si cuando dice en las ciudades grandes las 21 otras ciudades de
 más de 100.000 habitantes se refiere a la población de todo el municipio o
 sólo a la de su capital. Para asegurarme he consultado el INE[2] y me sale
 que con cualquiera de los dos criterios hay ciudades nuevas a añadir.

 Si sólo consideramos la población de la capital del municipio estarían
 Torrevieja y Barakaldo. Si consideramos la población de todo el municipio
 además estarían Marbella, Cartagena, Telde, San Cristóbal de La Laguna y
 Dos Hermanas.

 ¿Qué criterio os parece el correcto? Yo voto por considerar sólo la
 población de la ciudad, no la de todo el municipio, me parece más lógico.
 Lo mismo se aplicaría a town y a village.

 Los datos de los listados son de 2010, con los de 2013 surgen más cambios
 que estoy elaborando.

 Saludos, Javier.
 [1]
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Normalizaci%C3%B3n#N.C3.BAcleos_de_poblaci.C3.B3n
 [2] http://www.ine.es/nomen2/


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Re: [Talk-es] Normalización poblaciones

2014-08-30 Thread Jonay Santana
Yo también comparto la opinión de que mejor ceñirse al núcleo urbano, al
menos mientras no se haya fusionado como una conurbación a otro núcleo.
El 30/08/2014 07:48, Javier Sánchez javiers...@gmail.com escribió:

 ¿Nadie más se anima a votar?... Es un tema serio.

 ¿Algún Lagunero o Teldense que opine?

 Saludos.


 El 29 de agosto de 2014, 12:35, Benjamín Valero Espinosa 
 benjaval...@gmail.com escribió:

 En el caso de mi ciudad Orihuela, la diferencia es bastante exagerada.
 Aunque casualmente aún se quedaría en la misma categoría, la población del
 municipio completo supera los 90.000 habitantes, mientras que la población
 de la ciudad en sí ronda los 30.000, estando los otros 60.000 habitantes
 repartidos en pedanías rurales y en la costa, y para colmo a unos 30 km
 alrededor, es decir, que ni siquiera son áreas cercanas en un mapa. Hay
 otra ciudades como Lorca con mucho territorio rural donde les puede pasar
 algo parecido.

 Aunque me duela por quitarle importancia a mi pueblo, creo que se debería
 tener en cuenta la población de cada núcleo urbano, y no la de todo el
 municipio.




 El 29 de agosto de 2014, 12:55, Javier Sánchez javiers...@gmail.com
 escribió:

  Hola

 Revisando la normalización de los núcleos de población[1] me ha surgido
 la duda de si cuando dice en las ciudades grandes las 21 otras ciudades de
 más de 100.000 habitantes se refiere a la población de todo el municipio o
 sólo a la de su capital. Para asegurarme he consultado el INE[2] y me sale
 que con cualquiera de los dos criterios hay ciudades nuevas a añadir.

 Si sólo consideramos la población de la capital del municipio estarían
 Torrevieja y Barakaldo. Si consideramos la población de todo el municipio
 además estarían Marbella, Cartagena, Telde, San Cristóbal de La Laguna y
 Dos Hermanas.

 ¿Qué criterio os parece el correcto? Yo voto por considerar sólo la
 población de la ciudad, no la de todo el municipio, me parece más lógico.
 Lo mismo se aplicaría a town y a village.

 Los datos de los listados son de 2010, con los de 2013 surgen más
 cambios que estoy elaborando.

 Saludos, Javier.
 [1]
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Normalizaci%C3%B3n#N.C3.BAcleos_de_poblaci.C3.B3n
 [2] http://www.ine.es/nomen2/


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[Talk-es] addr:country

2014-08-30 Thread Simó Albert i Beltran
Donde puedo encontrar documentación sobre que es una mala práctica poner
addr:country?

En el siguiente cambio se añade este tag a miles de
nodos:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/22127891


pgpxeGh1seGpn.pgp
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Re: [Talk-es] addr:country

2014-08-30 Thread f . dos . santos
La página mostra que addr:country es opcional :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Karlsruhe_Schema#Tags

Es una otra forma de is_in con los mismos argumentos :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:is_in

El más importanta, mechanical edit y no respeto de :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edit_Policy

Francisco

- Mail original -
From: Simó Albert i Beltran s...@probeta.net
To: Jaime Crespo jy...@jynus.com, Discusión en Español de OpenStreetMap 
talk-es@openstreetmap.org
Date: 30/08/2014 11:59:55
Subject: [Talk-es] addr:country

Donde puedo encontrar documentación sobre que es una mala práctica poner
addr:country?

En el siguiente cambio se añade este tag a miles de
nodos:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/22127891

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Re: [Talk-es] Normalización poblaciones

2014-08-30 Thread Carlos Dávila

El 30/08/14 08:47, Javier Sánchez escribió:

¿Nadie más se anima a votar?... Es un tema serio.
Creo que más que votar es una cuestión de lógica: si la etiqueta en 
cuestión se aplica al nodo o área que define un determinado núcleo 
urbano, no un término municipal, lo lógico es poner la población de ese 
núcleo urbano.


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Re: [Talk-es] addr:country

2014-08-30 Thread Jaime Crespo
Se puede encontrar en 2 de cada 3 respuestas de la lista de imports. Echa
un vistazo a los historiales.

--
Jaime Crespo
http://dbahire.com
El 30/08/2014 11:56, Simó Albert i Beltran s...@probeta.net escribió:

 Donde puedo encontrar documentación sobre que es una mala práctica poner
 addr:country?

 En el siguiente cambio se añade este tag a miles de
 nodos:

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/22127891

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Re: [Talk-es] Normalización poblaciones

2014-08-30 Thread Jaime Crespo
Como el escritor original de esas líneas, lo que intenté es trasladar la
regla internacional de una manera razonable para nuestra geografía.

Ha pasado mucho tiempo de ello, así que mi única recomendación es leer de
nuevo las recomendaciones internacionales (y/o las equivalencias en otros
países cercanos) hacer una propuesta con una lista cerrada y concreta, y si
después de un tiempo nadie dice nada en contra, cambiarlo directamente en
la wiki.

Un saludo,

--
Jaime Crespo
http://dbahire.com
El 30/08/2014 15:36, Carlos Dávila cdavi...@orangecorreo.es escribió:

 El 30/08/14 08:47, Javier Sánchez escribió:

 ¿Nadie más se anima a votar?... Es un tema serio.

 Creo que más que votar es una cuestión de lógica: si la etiqueta en
 cuestión se aplica al nodo o área que define un determinado núcleo urbano,
 no un término municipal, lo lógico es poner la población de ese núcleo
 urbano.

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Re: [Talk-at] Karte zur Gebäudeabdeckung in Österreich

2014-08-30 Thread Thomas Konrad
Hallo,

es gibt ein paar kleine Updates bezüglich der Gebäudeabdeckungskarte 
(http://thomaskonrad.at/osm/osm-austria-building-coverage/):

* Die OSM-Daten werden jetzt täglich um 3 Uhr früh per Geofabrik-Dump 
aktualisiert und ein aktueller Layer gerendert.
* Zum Vergleich kann man jetzt mit zwei Radio-Buttons zwischen dem 
ursprünglichen Stand (29. August) und dem aktuellen Stand hin- und herschalten. 
Die Fade-Animation hierfür habe ich ausgeschalten damit man die Unterschiede 
klarer sieht. So sieht das ca. aus:
  (  ) OpenStreetMap-Gebäude 2014-08-29
  (o) OpenStreetMap-Gebäude aktuell
* @Stefan: Es gibt jetzt einen optionalen OSM-Standard-Layer zur genaueren 
Orientierung.
* Die Farben sind nun auch in den niedrigeren Zoomlevels ein wenig kräftiger, 
da sieht man jetzt ein bisschen mehr.
* Man kann jetzt bis Zoomlevel 16 zoomen (statt wie bisher bis Zoomlevel 15).

Soon to come: Bezirksweise Abdeckungsstatistiken mit Ranking. Ich arbeite dran 
:)

Schöne Grüße
Thomas

Am 28.08.2014 um 21:42 schrieb Stefan Tauner stefan.tau...@gmx.at:

 On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 08:24:09 +0200
 Thomas Konrad tkon...@gmx.net wrote:
 
 Hallo,
 
 ich habe vor kurzem eine Karte erstellt, die die Gebäudeabdeckung in 
 Österreich zeigt:
 
 http://thomaskonrad.at/2014/08/analyse-der-openstreetmap-gebaudeabdeckung-in-osterreich/
 
 Die Karte soll als Analysewerkzeug und Motivation dienen, die Situation in 
 Österreich zu verbessern :) Ganz unten im Artikel gibt es technische Infos, 
 wie ich die Karte erstellt habe. Ich freue mich über Feedback!
 
 Ein optionaler Mapnik layer wär noch ein Hit, ansonsten hab nicht
 einmal ich was zu raunzen... :)
 
 -- 
 Kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Stefan Tauner
 
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Re: [Talk-at] Karte zur Gebäudeabdeckung in Österreich / JOSM Areaselector

2014-08-30 Thread Paul Woelfel
Hallo,

da ich noch nicht so lang mit OSM arbeite hätte ich dazu gleich eine Frage:

Wie kann ich im JOSM


Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Dipl.-Ing. Paul Wölfel

emailpaul.woel...@gmail.com
Tel. +43 664 88 533 801
Lindengasse 31/1/11
1070 Wien
Austria

On 29 Aug 2014, at 08:30, David Schmitt da...@black.co.at wrote:

Das plugin ist mir schon vor kurzem aufgefallen und ich hab einige Gebäude
in NÖ damit erfasst.

Folgende SAchen sind mir aufgefallen:

 * Wie Stefan schon erwähnt hat, fehlen die Umrandungen. Gebäude
   werden daher zu klein und müssen händisch nachkorrigiert werden.
 * knapp darauf folgend, müssen natürlich alle Gebäude die Wand an
   Wand stehen auch händisch verbunden werden.
 * JPEG Kompressionsartefakte führen manchmal dazu dass kleine Wirbel
   aus 4-8 Nodes entstehen, die lästige Nachkorrektur erfordern.

In seiner aktuellen Form bringt mir das Plugin noch keine wirkliche
Ersparnis, gegenüber einer rein manuellen Erfassung, aber ein Ausmerzen der
Problemstellen könnte die Situation rasch zum Besseren wenden!

Bitte halte uns am Laufenden!

MfG David

On 2014-08-28 21:53, Paul Woelfel wrote:

Hallo,

Passend zur Grbäudeabdeckung hab ich mit Unterstützung von Tom ein Tool
erstellt, welches es leichter macht Gebäude ausbasemap.at
http://basemap.at Bildern zu mappen.

Das Plugin für JOSM nennt sich Areaselector und is auch in den normalen
Josm Plugins gelistet. Quellcode und ist unter
https://github.com/JOSM/JOSM-areaselectorzu finden.

Zum mappen eines Gebäudes muss man nur den Bereich des Gebäudes
anklicken und es werden automatisch die Grenzen erkannt und ein Polygon
gezeichnet. Ein Tagging Dialog, welcher sich die letzten Werte merkt,
wird danach automatisch angezeigt.

Mir is klar, dass die basemap Daten nicht immer hundertprozentig richtig
ist, aber ich denke als Basis mal nicht schlecht.

Ich würde mich auch über Feedback oder Codebeiträge freuen!


Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Dipl.-Ing. Paul Wölfel

emailpaul.woel...@gmail.commailto:paul.woel...@gmail.com
Tel. +43 664 88 499 513
Lindengasse 31/1/11
1070 Wien
Austria

Am 28.08.2014 21:37 schrieb Markus Straub markus.straub...@gmail.com
mailto:markus.straub...@gmail.com:

   Wow, gratuliere, die Karte ist wirklich wunderschön geworden!
   Gibt nichts zu meckern, einfach tolle Arbeit.

   LG,
   Markus

   2014-08-26 8:24 GMT+02:00 Thomas Konrad tkon...@gmx.net
   mailto:tkon...@gmx.net:
 Hallo,

 ich habe vor kurzem eine Karte erstellt, die die Gebäudeabdeckung in
 Österreich zeigt:



http://thomaskonrad.at/2014/08/analyse-der-openstreetmap-gebaudeabdeckung-in-osterreich/

 Die Karte soll als Analysewerkzeug und Motivation dienen, die
   Situation in
 Österreich zu verbessern :) Ganz unten im Artikel gibt es
   technische Infos,
 wie ich die Karte erstellt habe. Ich freue mich über Feedback!

 Liebe Grüße
 Tom

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Re: [Talk-at] Karte zur Gebäudeabdeckung in Österreich

2014-08-30 Thread Stefan Tauner
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:53:03 +0200
Thomas Konrad tkon...@gmx.net wrote:

 Hallo,
 
 es gibt ein paar kleine Updates bezüglich der Gebäudeabdeckungskarte 
 (http://thomaskonrad.at/osm/osm-austria-building-coverage/):
 
 * Die OSM-Daten werden jetzt täglich um 3 Uhr früh per Geofabrik-Dump 
 aktualisiert und ein aktueller Layer gerendert.
 * Zum Vergleich kann man jetzt mit zwei Radio-Buttons zwischen dem 
 ursprünglichen Stand (29. August) und dem aktuellen Stand hin- und 
 herschalten. Die Fade-Animation hierfür habe ich ausgeschalten damit man die 
 Unterschiede klarer sieht. So sieht das ca. aus:
   (  ) OpenStreetMap-Gebäude 2014-08-29
   (o) OpenStreetMap-Gebäude aktuell
 * @Stefan: Es gibt jetzt einen optionalen OSM-Standard-Layer zur genaueren 
 Orientierung.
 * Die Farben sind nun auch in den niedrigeren Zoomlevels ein wenig kräftiger, 
 da sieht man jetzt ein bisschen mehr.
 * Man kann jetzt bis Zoomlevel 16 zoomen (statt wie bisher bis Zoomlevel 15).
 
 Soon to come: Bezirksweise Abdeckungsstatistiken mit Ranking. Ich arbeite 
 dran :)

Großartige Arbeit, danke!
Falls es automatisierbar rausfindbar ist, könnte man noch den genauen
timestamp vom dump angeben. Meine Änderungen (changeset 25083663 vom
plugin-test) sind nämlich von Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:11:14 PM UTC und
noch nicht drinnen (auch nicht im aktuellen layer).

-- 
Kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Stefan Tauner

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Re: [Talk-cz] Zpráva o činnosti

2014-08-30 Thread Petr Souček
Dobrý den,

no vidíte, já se tady vytahuji, jak jsme to opravili a tohohle jsem si
nevšiml. Já jsem to kontroloval v ISKN prostřednictvím Nahlížení do KN. V
katastru nemovitostí je polygon správně, protože tam je evidována 1 budova,
http://sgi.nahlizenidokn.cuzk.cz/marushka/default.aspx?themeid=3MarUid=7E65
95D2%209D2F4EA0%20A5AD9D88%208244EA23MarUidi=8244EA23MarMiddlePoint=-74296
3.9674310316%20-1038573.7739832742MarScale=1130

Ale naopak v ISÚI je to evidováno jako několik samostatných stavebních
objektů, viz http://vdp.cuzk.cz/vdp/ruian/stavebniobjekty/22158057,
http://vdp.cuzk.cz/vdp/ruian/stavebniobjekty/22158065, kterým se každému
přiřadí stejný polygon z ISKN. 

Zkusím to poslat ještě na KP k prověření, zdali má být zapsána jedna budova
na více parcelách a nebo několik budov na samostatných parcelách. Záleží na
tom, jak to bylo zkolaudováno stavebním úřadem.

Petr Souček

-Original Message-
From: Petr Vejsada [mailto:o...@propsychology.cz] 
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 12:11 AM
To: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic; Petr Souček
Subject: Re: [Talk-cz] Zpráva o činnosti

Dobrý den,

tak jsem se chtěl pokochat, jak jste opravili tu Troju, Krynickou ulici. No,
je to změněné, ale opravené tedy ne. Každé té budově jste udělali polygon,
který ovšem zahrnuje geometrii všech těch budov dohromady. A ty všechny jsou
zase naplácané na sobě :-)

http://ruian.poloha.net/18/50.12648/14.41053

po rozsvícení vrstvy budov to opravdu hodně svítí. Normálně to má být
průhledné. 

Dne Pá 29. srpna 2014 22:21:24, Petr Souček napsal(a):

 Třeba případ v Troji (zmiňovaný před nějakým časem) s chybným 
 polygonem budovy už je opraven. 


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Re: [Talk-cz] Kontrola a doplnění ulic

2014-08-30 Thread Marek Chlup
:-)

Tak to je chaos. Cedule s U Podjezdu se zdá novější, ale v RUIAN je
U podjezdu jako na té ceduli co se zdá starší.

Marek


On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 09:46:59PM +0200, Petr Kadlec wrote:
 2014-08-29 18:17 GMT+02:00 Marek Chlup m...@chlup.net:
 
  Původně mnou uvedená olomoucká ulice:
  RUIAN: Na střelnici
  Cedule: Na Střelnici
  (skoro mám podezření, že v RUIAN někdo aplikoval nějaký skript...)
 
 
 Tak ono kdekoli dochází ke změně pravidel pravopisu, jsou z toho zmatky.
 Zrovna v Olomouci by mohli vyprávět…
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Uli%C4%8Dn%C3%AD_tabule_U_Podjezdu.jpg
 ;-)
 
 -- Petr Kadlec / Mormegil

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[OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau job à mi-temps

2014-08-30 Thread Christian Quest
A partir de ce lundi 1er septembre, je rejoins la très dynamique équipe
d'Etalab (data.gouv.fr).

Bien sûr je m'y occuperai de données, en particulier des données
géographiques mais pas uniquement. Il y a un gros travail à faire sur les
référentiels ouverts et sur l'adoption de fonctionnements collaboratifs
autour de ceux-ci. BANO est un bon exemple, l'objectif va être de passer à
BANO^2.

Etalab est une branche du SGMAP (Secrétariat Général à la Modernisation de
l'Action Publique)... et ces sujets sont il me semble assez fondamentaux.

Bref, pour faire bouger les choses, il faut être au bon endroit, trouver le
bon point où mettre le levier et ça me semble le meilleur actuellement.

C'est un poste a mi-temps qui donc me laissera encore du temps libre pour
OSM et qui me permettra aussi d'évangéliser encore un peu plus au sujet
d'OSM dans des couches moins accessibles en temps normal !

Donc nouvelle adresse email pro: christian.qu...@data.gouv.fr

-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau job à mi-temps

2014-08-30 Thread François Lacombe
Très bonne nouvelle !

Bonne continuation Christian :)

Francois
Le 30 août 2014 10:46, Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr a écrit :

 A partir de ce lundi 1er septembre, je rejoins la très dynamique équipe
 d'Etalab (data.gouv.fr).

 Bien sûr je m'y occuperai de données, en particulier des données
 géographiques mais pas uniquement. Il y a un gros travail à faire sur les
 référentiels ouverts et sur l'adoption de fonctionnements collaboratifs
 autour de ceux-ci. BANO est un bon exemple, l'objectif va être de passer à
 BANO^2.

 Etalab est une branche du SGMAP (Secrétariat Général à la Modernisation de
 l'Action Publique)... et ces sujets sont il me semble assez fondamentaux.

 Bref, pour faire bouger les choses, il faut être au bon endroit, trouver
 le bon point où mettre le levier et ça me semble le meilleur actuellement.

 C'est un poste a mi-temps qui donc me laissera encore du temps libre pour
 OSM et qui me permettra aussi d'évangéliser encore un peu plus au sujet
 d'OSM dans des couches moins accessibles en temps normal !

 Donc nouvelle adresse email pro: christian.qu...@data.gouv.fr

 --
 Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Stand OSM lors de Capitole du Libre

2014-08-30 Thread Sébastien Dinot
Salut Christophe,

Christophe Merlet a écrit :
 Volontaire pour samedi.

Cool ! Merci, si nous sommes plusieurs, je vais confirmer aux
organisateurs notre intérêt pour un stand.

De mon côté, j'ai derechef proposé un atelier sur JOSM le dimanche. S'il
est accepté, j'aurai sans doute besoin comme l'année dernière de
personnes pour venir en aide personnes qui rencontrent des difficultés
particulières (la formule a fait ses preuves, je déroule l'atelier au
rythme adapté au plus grand nombre et les co-animateurs aident ceux qui
décrochent ou rencontrent des difficulté particulières, ce faisant la
dynamique est préversée et tout le monde est satisfait).

 Et aussi pour dimanche si besoin, si on me trouve un petit
 hébergement...

Hébergeant des amis pour l'occasion, je suis déjà au complet, désolé. :(

Mais je ne dois pas être le seul mappeur local inscrit sur cette liste.
Une âme hospitalière dans le coin ?

Sébastien

-- 
Sébastien Dinot, sebastien.di...@free.fr
http://sebastien.dinot.free.fr/
Ne goûtez pas au logiciel libre, vous ne pourriez plus vous en passer !

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[OSM-talk-fr] Sport=climbing pour escalade sur falaises et arêtes

2014-08-30 Thread Pierre Knobel
Bonjour,

J'ai du mal à comprendre sur quels objets on peut rajouter
sport=climbong. JOSM me donne une erreur sport without physical feature
quand je rajoute ce tag sur une falaise ou une arête.

Exemples :
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/300954193 (école d'escalade sur falaise)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/300954192 (arête avec passages d'escalade
: http://www.camptocamp.org/routes/55445/fr/l-ecoutoux-l-arete-a-jojo)

Comment est-ce que vous faites ?

Pierre
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Sport=climbing pour escalade sur falaises et arêtes

2014-08-30 Thread Matthias Dietrich
Bonjour,

JOSM voudrait voir sport=* associé à un élément physique sur lequel ou
dans lequel un sport est pratiqué. C'est ce que dit le wiki, où on trouve
une liste d'objets associés:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:sport

Les natural=cliff, natural=arete, natural=couloir ou natural=stone
n'y figurent pas.

Maintenant pour répondre à ta question, en ce qui me concerne je mets
sport=climbing sur ce qui va bien, et je laisse JOSM râler.

Matthias



Le 30 août 2014 18:06, Pierre Knobel pierr...@gmail.com a écrit :

 Bonjour,

 J'ai du mal à comprendre sur quels objets on peut rajouter
 sport=climbong. JOSM me donne une erreur sport without physical feature
 quand je rajoute ce tag sur une falaise ou une arête.

 Exemples :
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/300954193 (école d'escalade sur falaise)
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/300954192 (arête avec passages
 d'escalade :
 http://www.camptocamp.org/routes/55445/fr/l-ecoutoux-l-arete-a-jojo)

 Comment est-ce que vous faites ?

 Pierre

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Nouveau job à mi-temps

2014-08-30 Thread Gaël Simon
Bravo Christian et bon courage pour cette mission, en ligne avec le 
développement du libre et le service public.
Merci à toi

Gaël

Le 30 août 2014 à 10:43, Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr a écrit :

A partir de ce lundi 1er septembre, je rejoins la très dynamique équipe 
d'Etalab (data.gouv.fr).

Bien sûr je m'y occuperai de données, en particulier des données géographiques 
mais pas uniquement. Il y a un gros travail à faire sur les référentiels 
ouverts et sur l'adoption de fonctionnements collaboratifs autour de ceux-ci. 
BANO est un bon exemple, l'objectif va être de passer à BANO^2.

Etalab est une branche du SGMAP (Secrétariat Général à la Modernisation de 
l'Action Publique)... et ces sujets sont il me semble assez fondamentaux.

Bref, pour faire bouger les choses, il faut être au bon endroit, trouver le bon 
point où mettre le levier et ça me semble le meilleur actuellement.

C'est un poste a mi-temps qui donc me laissera encore du temps libre pour OSM 
et qui me permettra aussi d'évangéliser encore un peu plus au sujet d'OSM dans 
des couches moins accessibles en temps normal !

Donc nouvelle adresse email pro: christian.qu...@data.gouv.fr

-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Stand OSM lors de Capitole du Libre

2014-08-30 Thread orhygine
Salut,

Le 30 août 2014 15:38, Sébastien Dinot sebastien.di...@free.fr a écrit :

 Salut Christophe,

 Christophe Merlet a écrit :
  Volontaire pour samedi.

 Cool ! Merci, si nous sommes plusieurs, je vais confirmer aux
 organisateurs notre intérêt pour un stand.

 De mon côté, j'ai derechef proposé un atelier sur JOSM le dimanche. S'il
 est accepté, j'aurai sans doute besoin comme l'année dernière de
 personnes pour venir en aide personnes qui rencontrent des difficultés
 particulières (la formule a fait ses preuves, je déroule l'atelier au
 rythme adapté au plus grand nombre et les co-animateurs aident ceux qui
 décrochent ou rencontrent des difficulté particulières, ce faisant la
 dynamique est préversée et tout le monde est satisfait).

  Et aussi pour dimanche si besoin, si on me trouve un petit
  hébergement...

 Hébergeant des amis pour l'occasion, je suis déjà au complet, désolé. :(

 Mais je ne dois pas être le seul mappeur local inscrit sur cette liste.
 Une âme hospitalière dans le coin ?

 Sébastien

 --
 Sébastien Dinot, sebastien.di...@free.fr
 http://sebastien.dinot.free.fr/
 Ne goûtez pas au logiciel libre, vous ne pourriez plus vous en passer !

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Dispo pour le stand le samedi après-midi et également pour assister sur
l'atelier JOSM comme l'année dernière s'il est accepté.

-- 
Christophe aka orhygine | http://orhyginal.free.fr |
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Sport=climbing pour escalade sur falaises et arêtes

2014-08-30 Thread Philippe Verdy
on pourrait alors ajouter les lacs et étangs ? natural=water...
ou les rivières et eaux vives Les sports nautiques aussi ont leur
terrain.
L'ennui c'est que ce terrain n'est souvent pas clairement délimité par les
limites naturelles. Je penche plutôt pour la définition d'un polygone
englobant car c'est souvent plus limité que l'élément naturel, même si les
limites sont assez floues (particulièrement les bases nautiques qui
peuvent exister aussi en mer et on ne va pas taguer non plus tout les
océans, seulement les zones de départ avec certains équipements (ponton,
quai, parcs et hangars à bateaux, parking d'accès...)



Le 30 août 2014 18:53, Matthias Dietrich eiger@gmail.com a écrit :

 Bonjour,

 JOSM voudrait voir sport=* associé à un élément physique sur lequel ou
 dans lequel un sport est pratiqué. C'est ce que dit le wiki, où on trouve
 une liste d'objets associés:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:sport

 Les natural=cliff, natural=arete, natural=couloir ou natural=stone
 n'y figurent pas.

 Maintenant pour répondre à ta question, en ce qui me concerne je mets
 sport=climbing sur ce qui va bien, et je laisse JOSM râler.

 Matthias



 Le 30 août 2014 18:06, Pierre Knobel pierr...@gmail.com a écrit :

  Bonjour,

 J'ai du mal à comprendre sur quels objets on peut rajouter
 sport=climbong. JOSM me donne une erreur sport without physical feature
 quand je rajoute ce tag sur une falaise ou une arête.

 Exemples :
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/300954193 (école d'escalade sur
 falaise)
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/300954192 (arête avec passages
 d'escalade :
 http://www.camptocamp.org/routes/55445/fr/l-ecoutoux-l-arete-a-jojo)

 Comment est-ce que vous faites ?

 Pierre

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Sport=climbing pour escalade sur falaises et arêtes

2014-08-30 Thread Nicolas Dumoulin
Le samedi 30 août 2014 18:53:56 Matthias Dietrich a écrit :
 Bonjour,
 
 JOSM voudrait voir sport=* associé à un élément physique sur lequel ou
 dans lequel un sport est pratiqué. C'est ce que dit le wiki, où on trouve
 une liste d'objets associés:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:sport
 
 Les natural=cliff, natural=arete, natural=couloir ou natural=stone
 n'y figurent pas.

Salut,

Je viens justement d'ajouter la Dent de la Rancune (Vallée de Chaudefour, 
Puy-de-Dôme) : 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3048550276[1] 
natural=rock car ce n'est selon moi ni une falaise (cliff), ni un rocher 
(stone).
Maintenant, si un grimpeur un peu plus au courant en a à redire … :-)

-- 
Nicolas Dumoulin
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:NicolasDumoulin


[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3048550276
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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Paul Norman

On 8/29/2014 9:41 PM, Russ Nelson wrote:

And then I can point you to oddly connected roads, and a
lack of buildings, or new buildings.
Those things should certainly be mapped, but there are other projects to 
put historical data.


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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Richard Fairhurst
Russ Nelson wrote:
 I fear that the deletionism infection has jumped from Wikipedia 
 to OpenStreetMap.

...is exactly what I was going to say.

Seriously, OSM in the US, outside a few cities, is still way beyond broken.
You can open it at any random location and the map is just fictional. (I
did, just now: http://www.osm.org/edit#map=13/36.1938/-103.6446 . Half of
those roads don't exist at all, and the other half are barely roads,
certainly not residential ones as tagged.) Why would you (contentiously)
delete railway=abandoned for an actual abandoned railway trackbed when the
map has thousands, millions, of fictional or entirely mistagged roads and
tracks?

I know it's a long-standing OSM joke, but at this rate we _are_ going to
have to import some Germans to the US, because it looks like the only way
the map will ever get fixed.

cheers
Richard





--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Abandoned-railway-tp5815752p5815879.html
Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Mike N

On 8/30/2014 4:33 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

Seriously, OSM in the US, outside a few cities, is still way beyond broken.
You can open it at any random location and the map is just fictional. (I
did, just now:http://www.osm.org/edit#map=13/36.1938/-103.6446  .


 Landing on the high plains desert in the west does not make a good 
case that OSM in the US is broken.  Desert imagery cues do not match 
those of conventional climates.   Those roads likely do exist, but are 
barely visible in contrast to the surroundings.  We city-folk would 
classify them as tracks, but a desert prospector or park ranger would 
consider them secondary.



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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer


 Il giorno 30/ago/2014, alle ore 10:33, Richard Fairhurst 
 rich...@systemed.net ha scritto:
 
 Russ Nelson wrote:
 I fear that the deletionism infection has jumped from Wikipedia 
 to OpenStreetMap.
 
 ...is exactly what I was going to say.
 
 Seriously, OSM in the US, outside a few cities, is still way beyond broken.
 You can open it at any random location and the map is just fictional. (I
 did, just now: http://www.osm.org/edit#map=13/36.1938/-103.6446 . Half of
 those roads don't exist at all, and the other half are barely roads,
 certainly not residential ones as tagged.) Why would you (contentiously)
 delete railway=abandoned for an actual abandoned railway trackbed when the
 map has thousands, millions, of fictional or entirely mistagged roads and
 tracks?


+1, completely agree. Even if you don't care for abandoned railways and 
question their belonging in OSM, please respect others who actually do care. 
Deleting what someone has entered with great effort (and what is correctly 
tagged) will surely cause more harm than good to OSM as a whole (eg will 
frustrate and ultimately draw engaged mappers away from OSM).

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Russ Nelson
Paul Norman writes:
  On 8/29/2014 9:41 PM, Russ Nelson wrote:
   And then I can point you to oddly connected roads, and a
   lack of buildings, or new buildings.
  Those things should certainly be mapped, but there are other projects to 
  put historical data.

Don't render them, then. Oh, wait, that's what you're already
doing. I'm not understanding the problem here.

If you want to start deleting things from OSM, the first thing that
should be deleted is your access.

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Martijn van Exel
OK, I believe everyone has made their point here. Let’s leave it at this, or 
take it offline.

—  
Martijn van Exel
President, OpenStreetMap U.S. Chapter
http://openstreetmap.us/
@openstreetmapus

Elections for the 2014-2015 board Oct 4-12 - consider running for a board seat! 
 


From: Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com
Reply: Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com
Date: August 30, 2014 at 10:07:07 AM
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject:  Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway  

Paul Norman writes:
 On 8/29/2014 9:41 PM, Russ Nelson wrote:
  And then I can point you to oddly connected roads, and a
  lack of buildings, or new buildings.
 Those things should certainly be mapped, but there are other projects to  
 put historical data.

Don't render them, then. Oh, wait, that's what you're already
doing. I'm not understanding the problem here.

If you want to start deleting things from OSM, the first thing that
should be deleted is your access.

--  
--my blog is at http://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog  

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Re: [Talk-us] 2014 Tiger Update

2014-08-30 Thread Martijn van Exel
Good point. I’ll see about updating the JOSM layer, I am not sure the iD one 
uses the same imagery actually. 
— 
Martijn van Exel

From: Hans De Kryger hans.dekryge...@gmail.com
Reply: Hans De Kryger hans.dekryge...@gmail.com
Date: August 29, 2014 at 11:45:40 PM
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject:  [Talk-us] 2014 Tiger Update  

Released August 19, 2014 - 

https://www.census.gov/geo/maps-data/data/tiger-line.html

Anyone know if they will be added to I.D editor anytime soon?

Regards,
Hans

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13

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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Russ Nelson
Mike N writes:
  On 8/30/2014 4:33 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
   Seriously, OSM in the US, outside a few cities, is still way beyond broken.
   You can open it at any random location and the map is just fictional. (I
   did, just now:http://www.osm.org/edit#map=13/36.1938/-103.6446  .
  
Landing on the high plains desert in the west does not make a good 
  case that OSM in the US is broken.

That's a fair objection to that specific example. You are correct that
it is not representative. Pick some place in Pennsylvania, if you
want. Every time I cross over the border from New York into
Pennsylvania, I shudder.

If $X has the time to make OSM worse by deleting things, then $X
surely has the time to do some armchair mapping to add things.

If you're bored because your country is completely mapped, come visit
the US. Pick any state's list of rivers and streams (other than NY)
from Wikipedia, and start clicking. I'm happy to help anybody who
wants to add to OSM.  Verstehen Sie?

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Richard Fairhurst
Mike N. wrote:
 Landing on the high plains desert in the west does not make a 
 good case that OSM in the US is broken.  Desert imagery cues 
 do not match those of conventional climates.

I really wish I could agree with you, Mike, but my experience is that ~75%
of the US landmass is like that.

I just randomly alighted on somewhere in Texas. It's the same story.
'highway=residential's that don't exist or are, at best, very faint farm
tracks at the edge of a field. The majority of the roads I click on just
aren't there.

Now looking at somewhere random in Missouri. It's better - the geometries
are reasonably well lined up with the imagery. I'd say that around
two-thirds of the roads I'm clicking on are actually roads, and perhaps just
one-third are faint tracks or just non-existent.

The US community (and, dare I mention it, the late NE2) has done really well
cleaning up the major road data. If you're going from somewhere biggish to
somewhere biggish in a car, the routing will generally be good. I can
happily get OSRM to route from town to town and it works fine.

But that's not a map, that's a sparse routing graph. If I pick a random
highway=residential anywhere in the US, I have no confidence that it'll be
drivable in an average car or cyclable on an average bike. I certainly
couldn't expect it to be a road principally for residential access, in the
way that the rest of the world uses highway=residential. And that's without
going into nice-to-haves like rivers and woodland and so on. 

I don't think people realise quite how far behind OSM is in the US (the
biggest cities aside) compared to Western Europe. I can look anywhere in the
Highlands of Scotland, or barely-inhabited Mid-Wales, and OSM will be right.
Sure, some of the rarer footpaths might be missing and the stream geometry
might be a bit skewiff, but most information will be there, and what's there
will be correct. Similarly, la France profonde has come on in leaps and
bounds over the last couple of years. I don't need to tell you about
Germany. :)

Fixing the rural US is eminently achievable, and achievable right now. A
Tasking Manager instance, for a clearly defined project, would be great. I
think you'd get the armchair mappers of the world rallying to the task. If
you wanted to widen participation, you could probably build a
MapRoulette-on-steroids that provided a fast retagging UI within the
browser, with no need to fire up an editor. Or whatever.

But we can't get to OSM's 20th birthday and still have the same problem. It
needs to be fixed sooner or later, and my sense is that, at the current rate
of progress, it will be later - probably not within the next ten years.
Let's decide to make it sooner instead.

cheers
Richard





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Re: [Talk-us] 2014 Tiger Update

2014-08-30 Thread Bryan Housel
iD mostly uses https://github.com/osmlab/editor-imagery-index
So if it is added as a layer there, it can be made available in iD very easily.

So I think tiles need to be generated and the source needs to be added here:  
https://github.com/osmlab/editor-imagery-index/tree/gh-pages/sources/north-america

Thanks, Bryan



On Aug 30, 2014, at 12:12 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:

 Good point. I’ll see about updating the JOSM layer, I am not sure the iD one 
 uses the same imagery actually. 
 — 
 Martijn van Exel
 
 From: Hans De Kryger hans.dekryge...@gmail.com
 Reply: Hans De Kryger hans.dekryge...@gmail.com
 Date: August 29, 2014 at 11:45:40 PM
 To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 Subject:  [Talk-us] 2014 Tiger Update 
 
 Released August 19, 2014 - 
 
 https://www.census.gov/geo/maps-data/data/tiger-line.html
 
 Anyone know if they will be added to I.D editor anytime soon?
 
 Regards,
 Hans
 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13
 
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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Ian Dees
Hi. Let's stop this thread here, please.

Thanks,
Your friendly list admin
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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Paul Johnson
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 6:28 AM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote:

  Landing on the high plains desert in the west does not make a good case
 that OSM in the US is broken.  Desert imagery cues do not match those of
 conventional climates.   Those roads likely do exist, but are barely
 visible in contrast to the surroundings.  We city-folk would classify them
 as tracks, but a desert prospector or park ranger would consider them
 secondary.


NO!  We would *still* classify them as tracks!  Because there's no good
reason to classify them as more major, given consistency.  We're trying to
* not* break the routers, after all.  Yes, I realize that the vast majority
of county roads are *not* paved in my region.  But to classify them as more
major is a sickening choice, and would actually make OSM much worse than
Yahoo Maps, given the situation that actually killed a Yahoo founder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim

Just because it's a county road doesn't stop it from being a track.  It
might be a grade1 track, but that's still a track.  Even on the most major
tracks, even if they're capable of letting you hit the default speed limit
in most counties (45 mph), I'd still consider them a track.  Mostly because
if it's not paved at all, there's a good chance that 1) it floods
regularly, 2) it's not always the grade reported in OSM and therefore not
always possible in all vehicles, and 3) completely irresponsible to
represent them as something people unfamiliar are going to want to take.
 My comfort level in taking a Chevy Malibu over dozens of miles of county
track, even if it's the shortest or fastest way, is going to be completely
different from someone unfamiliar with the territory, and unfamiliar with
the map's foibles in the region.

At least in North America, I'm willing to go so far as to say as tagging
any unpaved road as anything higher than track is Considered Harmful.
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Re: [Talk-us] Abandoned railway

2014-08-30 Thread Paul Johnson
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:

 NO!  We would *still* classify them as tracks!  Because there's no good
 reason to classify them as more major, given consistency.  We're trying to
 * not* break the routers, after all.  Yes, I realize that the vast
 majority of county roads are *not* paved in my region.  But to classify
 them as more major is a sickening choice, and would actually make OSM much
 worse than Yahoo Maps, given the situation that actually killed a Yahoo
 founder.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim


 Also, given that not all roads in ODOT's system are paved (yes, it's 2014,
and there's substantial parts of Oregon's state highway system not paved!)
and many of the unpaved roads in higher elevation areas are not open in the
winter, with snow gates that are often buried completely and invisibly
(probably contributing to Kim's death) thanks to a lack of snow removal, I
really have a hard time justifying, at least in the north american case,
that any unpaved route should ever get more than a track designation.
 These are routes that, with good reason, should be detoured around
whenever possible.
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