date:20131130


Rob Nickerson wrote:

I appreciate that this may not be what you wanted to hear, but as with any big
change, there is likely to be a few teething issues.


Unfortunatly this has now broken many inter site links so personally I'm looking 
for a route to retore a more usable interface for those of us who USE the 
website as a tool for USERS who have no need to even think about opening an 
account !!!


We do normally live in a democracy ... some one person enforcing their view is 
not acceptable and this IS now a major hassle for many of my own site links ... 
when I select 'view larger map' I expect to get to a larger map not a sales site 
:( There SHOULD be something we can add to all those legacy links to make the 
site acceptable!


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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page


Lester Caine wrote:

I appreciate that this may not be what you wanted to hear, but as with any big
change, there is likely to be a few teething issues.


Unfortunatly this has now broken many inter site links so personally I'm looking
for a route to retore a more usable interface for those of us who USE the
website as a tool for USERS who have no need to even think about opening an
account !!!

We do normally live in a democracy ... some one person enforcing their view is
not acceptable and this IS now a major hassle for many of my own site links ...
when I select 'view larger map' I expect to get to a larger map not a sales site
:( There SHOULD be something we can add to all those legacy links to make the
site acceptable!


I've just realised exactly why I have a problem with this ...
The old layout was perfect for use as a basis for a 'larger map' when linked to 
from all of the embedded maps ... it WAS obviously a website for promoting OSM, 
and had obvious links to do other things rather than simply viewing a 'larger 
map'. CURRENTLY one is presented with what looks like something that one should 
NOT have reached ... for general users! ... It LOOKS like you are logged into 
something and it's not obvious what to do next !!! You are there simply because 
you wanted a larger map so 'learn more' and 'start mapping' simply don't apply.


This new front page simply does not work on many levels and I hope I'm not the 
only person who thinks that?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page


Lester Caine wrote:

This new front page simply does not work on many levels and I hope I'm not the
only person who thinks that?


No this is getting even more iritating ...
Can someone with the capability to sort out DNS PLEASE create 
old.openstreetmap.org with a link to the old front page. Something is needed to 
replace the current 'View larger map' and at least that while wasting time 
having to go around and update every link would give something a lot more usable!


(And the 'about' page is even more confusing despite the fact I know what OSM 
is)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione Rob Nickerson

Hi Lester,

If you are after a full screen map for your website, it is very easy to
create one with a simple html page that links to Leaflet (the tool for
providing pan and zoom, etc) and the tiles server at OSM. I've attached
something I was able to get up and running quite quickly. My web developer
skills are near zero :-)

Best
Rob
Title: OpenStreetMap - Mapnik




	
	


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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page


Rob Nickerson wrote:

Hi Lester,

If you are after a full screen map for your website, it is very easy to create
one with a simple html page that links to Leaflet (the tool for providing pan
and zoom, etc) and the tiles server at OSM. I've attached something I was able
to get up and running quite quickly. My web developer skills are near zero :-)


You are missing the point Rob ...

People are used to clicking on 'View larger map' and getting to Google Maps. The 
OLD website while not the prettiest was more in the style of what people are 
used to getting. I want to promote OSM and so I need something that is on the 
OSM side that is uasable. I've just switched all of the promotional links from 
openstreetmap.org to wiki.openstreetmap.org as THAT is a lot more informative 
than where people are ending currently!


The new front end has a place, but THAT is probably at map.openstreetmap.org 
rather than the main front page. Even if I was seaching for OSM cold I think I'd 
feel 'What the f**k' when confronted simply with a map and a few strange links. 
Being forced to log in just to get to something usable information wise is just 
not right. None of the first clicks give any sensible support for a new user 
even if they ARE looking for contributing.


If OSM is not going to provide a usable set of pages, then I will roll my own. I 
do already have that running, but it's OSM's site that needs to be linked to 
directly to promote it!


--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 11/30/2013 02:03 PM, Maarten Deen wrote:
 Yeah. This is a bad decision. That means that non-logged in users (which
 is any user that does not have an account, and that would be the
 majority of the users of the map page, if it is successful) will be
 bothered by this box all the time.
 I do have an account but I am not logged in most of the time. 

Same here. Then again, the total space taken up by the box is less than
the total space taken up by the permanently-visible sidebar before so
even if your use case is I want to see as much of the map as possible
the new layout should be better for you?

Anyway, I think nobody will be hurt if we have a little [X] button in
the top right corner of that welcome message, which then sets a cookie
and kills the message. I'm sure someone who is bothered enough will
submit a pull request for that.

Bye
Frederik

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[OSM-talk] proprietary and unrelated images on the about page

The header image on this page http://www.openstreetmap.org/about has not so
much to do with OSM.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/about/osm-dced8787df489e83b403e979f2bf055d.png

Going from left to right, of 4 (identifiable) images only 1 is OSM related
(the watercolour rendering), while the mapbox rendering doesn't show osm
data (besides maybe the coastline), the country map is apparently created
by mapquest from proprietary data: http://mapq.st/IxufcH and the image to
the right shows 3D-elevation contours, something that OSM doesn't offer or
provide.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione Simon Poole

Lester

Isn't
a) the welcome box
and
b) the Learn more/About page
a -lot- better on explaining what OSM is about than anything you could
find within one click (if at all) on the old site?

I really fail to see what you believe was better about the old layout,
maybe if you could give an example?

Simon

Am 30.11.2013 15:41, schrieb Lester Caine:
 Rob Nickerson wrote:
 Hi Lester,

 If you are after a full screen map for your website, it is very easy
 to create
 one with a simple html page that links to Leaflet (the tool for
 providing pan
 and zoom, etc) and the tiles server at OSM. I've attached something I
 was able
 to get up and running quite quickly. My web developer skills are near
 zero :-)

 You are missing the point Rob ...

 People are used to clicking on 'View larger map' and getting to Google
 Maps. The OLD website while not the prettiest was more in the style of
 what people are used to getting. I want to promote OSM and so I need
 something that is on the OSM side that is uasable. I've just switched
 all of the promotional links from openstreetmap.org to
 wiki.openstreetmap.org as THAT is a lot more informative than where
 people are ending currently!

 The new front end has a place, but THAT is probably at
 map.openstreetmap.org rather than the main front page. Even if I was
 seaching for OSM cold I think I'd feel 'What the f**k' when confronted
 simply with a map and a few strange links. Being forced to log in just
 to get to something usable information wise is just not right. None of
 the first clicks give any sensible support for a new user even if they
 ARE looking for contributing.

 If OSM is not going to provide a usable set of pages, then I will roll
 my own. I do already have that running, but it's OSM's site that needs
 to be linked to directly to promote it!




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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione Michael Kugelmann


Am 30.11.2013 16:02, schrieb Frederik Ramm:

Anyway, I think nobody will be hurt if we have a little [X] button in
the top right corner of that welcome message, which then sets a cookie
and kills the message. I'm sure someone who is bothered enough will
submit a pull request for that.

+1000
And please remember this setting so that a user doesn't have to remove 
this somehow annoying window once and once again.



Best regards,
Michael.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione malenki

On  30.11.2013 14:03, Maarten Deen wrote:

 So yes: this is a bad decision and I can only ask to make something
 that you can close this box ASAP.

+1



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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione James Mast

Well, I do know with the new map page change, all the changeset search feeds 
are now completely broken.

For instance, this url [1] used to create a feed for the for following area 
-80.54,40.358,-79.526,40.779 and let me know if there were any changesets that 
in that bounding box.  Now, all I get are the last 20 changeset in all of 
OSM!!!  That isn't good at all if you're trying to keep a watch on your home 
area for changes!!  There should have been a built in feed redirection from the 
old style here to the new style instead being broken the first time a user used 
the old style.

And when I try to access the new history menu [2] and pull the RSS FEED from 
the site, Firefox's build in Subscribe feature gives me this feed URL [3].  
The OSM site should be giving the user a valid feed url for the area you're 
viewing, not just the base feed.

Thankfully, I've figured out what the new feed link is for my watch area 
manually and updated it in my RSS feed reader [4].

Still, there needs to be some tweaks to the history part of the new design.

-James


[1] - 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changesets/feed?bbox=-80.54%2C40.358%2C-79.526%2C40.779
[2] - http://www.openstreetmap.org/history#map=10/40.4433/-79.6893layers=N
[3] - http://www.openstreetmap.org/history/feed
[4] - 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/history/feed?bbox=-80.54%2C40.358%2C-79.526%2C40.779
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione Tom Hughes


On 30/11/13 17:54, James Mast wrote:


For instance, this url [1] used to create a feed for the for following
area -80.54,40.358,-79.526,40.779 and let me know if there were any
changesets that in that bounding box.  Now, all I get are the last 20
changeset in all of OSM!!!  That isn't good at all if you're trying to
keep a watch on your home area for changes!!  There should have been a
built in feed redirection from the old style here to the new style
instead being broken the first time a user used the old style.

And when I try to access the new history menu [2] and pull the RSS FEED
from the site, Firefox's build in Subscribe feature gives me this feed
URL [3].  The OSM site should be giving the user a valid feed url for
the area you're viewing, not just the base feed.

Thankfully, I've figured out what the new feed link is for my watch area
manually and updated it in my RSS feed reader [4].


Well [1] should be redirecting to [4] and if it doesn't then that is a 
bug that should be reported.


There are some issues with the feed discovery in Firefox, mostly because 
Firefox seems to be buggy and not cope very well with the discovery URLs 
being updated on the fly.


Tom

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http://compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page



 Am 30/nov/2013 um 16:51 schrieb Simon Poole si...@poole.ch:
 
 I really fail to see what you believe was better about the old layout,
 maybe if you could give an example?


the wiki was linked directly. Our wiki is the principal (loosely) structured 
key about osm, created by the community. Its starting page is a good entry if 
you want to get serious, and I am sure also longtime contributors go there 
rather often. 

I'm used to type osm.org and click on the wiki link, now I'll have to type 
wiki.osm.org or click, wait and click again ;-)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page


Simon Poole wrote:

Lester

Isn't
a) the welcome box
and
b) the Learn more/About page
a -lot- better on explaining what OSM is about than anything you could
find within one click (if at all) on the old site?

I really fail to see what you believe was better about the old layout,
maybe if you could give an example?


If you simply remove the welcome box, then the page looks very much as if one is 
already logged into something? Most of the dropdowns make no sense UNTIL one has 
an account and are logged in? What is 'export' intended to do? I just get a 
white screen when I click the button.


The 'about' page seems like a waste of space? The fact that 75% of my screen is 
grey was the first put off, but I could not find links that took me to anything 
usable from that page. It NEEDS to take you on to somewhere that is a little 
more useful? Also the help button is equally obscure? The help list is not the 
easiest to understand, only wiki gives a feeling of something helpful, which is 
why I've defaulted links to that rather than the map.


The 'improved' page is ideal as a general interface to editing the map, but what 
is needed is a 'community' page - which the old page provided! - at least there 
was some direction to other areas rather than having to search for any usable 
links! While the old setup was messy, it did it's job reasonably well, and we 
STILL need that type of page, with improvements which the new setup totally 
ignores! We need links to LOCAL community pages and LOCAL support and that is 
what the 'about' box should be doing at the very least!


At least the old page was 'functional' even if it was not 'elegant' ... looking 
at the way 'Google maps' work, bringing back a right hand area which can be 
hidden is probably what is required but what is currently provided is not doing 
the job as far as I am concerned. What we have now is not usable as advertsing 
for OSM, which is what all the 'View larger map' links are designed to access?



Am 30.11.2013 15:41, schrieb Lester Caine:

Rob Nickerson wrote:

Hi Lester,

If you are after a full screen map for your website, it is very easy
to create
one with a simple html page that links to Leaflet (the tool for
providing pan
and zoom, etc) and the tiles server at OSM. I've attached something I
was able
to get up and running quite quickly. My web developer skills are near
zero :-)


You are missing the point Rob ...

People are used to clicking on 'View larger map' and getting to Google
Maps. The OLD website while not the prettiest was more in the style of
what people are used to getting. I want to promote OSM and so I need
something that is on the OSM side that is uasable. I've just switched
all of the promotional links from openstreetmap.org to
wiki.openstreetmap.org as THAT is a lot more informative than where
people are ending currently!

The new front end has a place, but THAT is probably at
map.openstreetmap.org rather than the main front page. Even if I was
seaching for OSM cold I think I'd feel 'What the f**k' when confronted
simply with a map and a few strange links. Being forced to log in just
to get to something usable information wise is just not right. None of
the first clicks give any sensible support for a new user even if they
ARE looking for contributing.

If OSM is not going to provide a usable set of pages, then I will roll
my own. I do already have that running, but it's OSM's site that needs
to be linked to directly to promote it!


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione SomeoneElse


Simon Poole wrote:


I really fail to see what you believe was better about the old layout,
maybe if you could give an example?


Just 5 examples to start with:

1) On the main osm.org site, the extra space taken up by the bar at the 
top and the huge welcome area at the left distracts from the map in a 
way that the rectangular left-hand bar didn't - it's easier to mentally 
exclude a left-hand bar and concentrate on the remaining rectangle in a 
way that it isn't possible to exclude the welcome box and concentrate on 
the remaining L-shaped 3/4 of the screen.


2) Browse pages are significantly less functional than previously. If I 
go to http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/404079; I see the 
tags on the relation, but none of the member ways unless I scroll the 
left-hand area down.  Clearly this screen was designed by people who 
never use browse pages (something borne out to some extent by the 
comments on the pull request).  On browse pages, the picture really 
isn't important to users; it's the boring numbers (to echo a comment 
on the pull request) that are.


3) That example browse page has ways descending higgledy-piggledy down 
the screen (The word way for ways that have a pictorial representation 
has that pictorial representation to the left; it does not line up above 
the word way for other ways).


4) The view tab seems to have disappeared.  That means if something 
has been typed in the address bar and I zoom in on something else 
interest I can't then press view to get a link to the current map on 
screen.


5) If I navigate to an area where data can't be displayed because 
Unable to load map data, too large of an area (333.48). Area must be 
smaller than 0.25 square degrees., I can't untick the data layer 
because it's greyed out.  Even if I close the data browser at the left 
and the layer switcher the Unable to load map data... message 
remains.  Presumably I have to zoom in, open the layer switcher, untick 
the box, and then zoom out again?


Generally speaking, the whole thing looks a bit Fisher Price - 
usability has been sacrificed in favour of superficial prettiness. 
However, I fail to see who the new design is for.  It's clearly not 
for casual users (they'll get driven away by the ridiculous welcome 
box and the new about screen).  It's not for mappers (the browse pages 
and changeset feeds are siginficantly less functional).  Maybe it's 
designed to do what many people (myself included) have often said to new 
users on the mailing lists and the help site - remember that osm.org 
is just one example map made with OSM data among many.  If you want a 
cycle map with a sensibly-sized layer switcher and a working permalink 
function, use http://www.opencyclemap.org/ instead!


I understand the reticence on behalf of many people to criticise 
suggestions from the (not being directly paid to do so) developers of 
the osm.org site.  As a software developer myself, being asked how am I 
supposed to use _that_? and being told that's rubbish, please start 
again! aren't nice, but sometimes are necessary.  I'm also aware of the 
alleged Henry Ford quote If I had asked people what they wanted, they 
would have said faster horses - people are naturally resistant to 
change, failing to appreciate changes that can allow better things to 
happen in the future.  However in this case I think the new design has 
genuinely got it wrong and needs a serious rethink - what should be the 
site design that casual visitors see?  What about regular mappers who 
just want to get at the boring numbers?


Cheers,

Andy

PS:  An obvious response to the above is well what do _you_ think the 
front page of osm.org should look like?.  My response is simple - 
http://openstreetmap.de/. That, and the associated 
http://openstreetmap.de/karte.html do a far better job of explaining OSM 
and the community than the main site currently (and have done for some 
time).



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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione Simon Poole


Am 30.11.2013 20:24, schrieb SomeoneElse:

Simon Poole wrote:


I really fail to see what you believe was better about the old layout,
maybe if you could give an example?


Just 5 examples to start with:


I was not soliciting general input, just specific to Lesters complaint 
(which was not about functional issues for mappers).


As to general complaints, I don't see any way forward without making 
somebody unhappy, we've already sunk multiple man weeks in to one 
re-design that didn't happen, no need to repeat that again. Functional 
defects that are not simply a matter of taste obviously should be 
documented and reported in an issue.


Simon

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione SomeoneElse


Simon Poole wrote:


As to general complaints, I don't see any way forward without making 
somebody unhappy


Understood (hence my Henry Ford quote) but on that general point - can 
anyone explain in what way the new site is better than the old one?  I'd 
love to know what I can do with the new site or could do easier that I 
couldn't do before.


Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione Maarten Deen


On 2013-11-30 20:24, SomeoneElse wrote:


I understand the reticence on behalf of many people to criticise
suggestions from the (not being directly paid to do so) developers of
the osm.org site.  As a software developer myself, being asked how am
I supposed to use _that_? and being told that's rubbish, please
start again! aren't nice, but sometimes are necessary.  I'm also
aware of the alleged Henry Ford quote If I had asked people what they
wanted, they would have said faster horses - people are naturally
resistant to change, failing to appreciate changes that can allow
better things to happen in the future.  However in this case I think
the new design has genuinely got it wrong and needs a serious rethink
- what should be the site design that casual visitors see?  What about
regular mappers who just want to get at the boring numbers?


What comes to my mind is If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
I fail to see the rationale behind changing the looks of the osm map 
page again.

What was wrong with it that needed to be fixed with this update?
It all seems so Windows 8ish to me (and while taste is personal, I do 
want to say that it is not a look that I like, and I hate that so many 
website do seem to adopt this style, like Microsoft is some kind of 
style guru).


I hadn't even noticed that the pages for individual nodes, ways and 
relations had changed. I immediately see one big problem with the boxes 
in a small left column approach: what when there is a lot of data in 
the value? Have a look at 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9133666/history and notice how the 
tiger:source and tiger:tlid values get obscured by the map.


Maarten

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[OSM-talk] Watchlist?

Starting to wonder if I'm just being obtuse on this, since it seems like
something that should already be available...but how do I watch a specific
object for changes, and get an email notification when it does change?
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page


Simon Poole wrote:

I really fail to see what you believe was better about the old layout,
maybe if you could give an example?


Just 5 examples to start with:


I was not soliciting general input, just specific to Lesters complaint (which
was not about functional issues for mappers).

As to general complaints, I don't see any way forward without making somebody
unhappy, we've already sunk multiple man weeks in to one re-design that didn't
happen, no need to repeat that again. Functional defects that are not simply a
matter of taste obviously should be documented and reported in an issue.


Which is why I simply ask that the old layout is made available again as that 
only requires access to pages that already exist. What is currently being 
offered is probably acceptable to users who are there with a view to 
contributing, and then requiring registration makes sense, but for the vast 
majority of visitors brought here by USERS of the data it's just not right.


I know that there is a lot of support for NOT providing services, but until a 
suitable replacement can be created for the many thousands of us using embeded 
maps, maintaining usable operation is important. The current changes are not 
compatible with using the embed function so THAT should have beendepricated 
first and time provided for us to make changes to existing usage!


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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page


Lester Caine wrote:

Which is why I simply ask that the old layout is made available again as that
only requires access to pages that already exist.


Silly question ... where has the 'embed' option gone?

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EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione Simon Poole


Share - HTML ?

Am 30.11.2013 23:02, schrieb Lester Caine:

Lester Caine wrote:
Which is why I simply ask that the old layout is made available again 
as that

only requires access to pages that already exist.


Silly question ... where has the 'embed' option gone?




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Re: [OSM-talk] Watchlist?

2013-11-30 Per discussione Tom Hughes


On 30/11/13 21:45, Paul Johnson wrote:


Starting to wonder if I'm just being obtuse on this, since it seems like
something that should already be available...but how do I watch a
specific object for changes, and get an email notification when it does
change?


I'm not really sure what you're talking about...

This is not something we've ever offered, are you suggesting that it's 
something the redesign has removed in some way?


Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Watchlist?

Let's put it on the wishlist, then.  Mediawiki offers the functionality I'm
looking for, though it'd be nice if the OSM equivalent could do that
without having to view the object to continue to receive notifications.


On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:

 On 30/11/13 21:45, Paul Johnson wrote:

  Starting to wonder if I'm just being obtuse on this, since it seems like
 something that should already be available...but how do I watch a
 specific object for changes, and get an email notification when it does
 change?


 I'm not really sure what you're talking about...

 This is not something we've ever offered, are you suggesting that it's
 something the redesign has removed in some way?

 Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page


Simon Poole wrote:

Share - HTML ?

Am 30.11.2013 23:02, schrieb Lester Caine:

Lester Caine wrote:

Which is why I simply ask that the old layout is made available again as that
only requires access to pages that already exist.


Silly question ... where has the 'embed' option gone?


Tool for creating script for
http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk/wiki/contact embedded map ...

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Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

2013-11-30 Per discussione Paul Norman

 From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
 Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:51 PM
 To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page

 Which is why I simply ask that the old layout is made available again as
that 
 only requires access to pages that already exist. 

There would be time costs in supporting the code for what are essentially 
duplicates of other pages. You have to test every change against both sets 
of pages, and then there is the distinct code that appears in one but not 
the other.

 What is currently being offered is probably acceptable to users who are 
 there with a view to contributing, and then requiring registration makes 
 sense, but for the vast majority of visitors brought here by USERS of 
 the data it's just not right. 

In EWG I brought up the opinion that a UI change should be evaluated on a) 
how well it converts visitors to mappers b) how well it retains 
visitors. Of course these are hard to measure, and it's not like the old 
site was rigerously evaluated against these criteria. 

The new site seems to be much better at directing visitors into becoming 
mappers. I have also shown it to inexperienced and new mappers and they 
found it an improvement. 

 I know that there is a lot of support for NOT providing services

I'd say there's a wide desire for offering services like OWL and routing 
on OSM.org. Of course, these take development hours, time, and money, so 
a wide desire doesn't translate into actually adding the services. 

 but until a suitable replacement can be created for the many thousands of
us 
 using embeded maps, maintaining usable operation is important. The 
 current changes are not compatible with using the embed function so THAT 
 should have beendepricated first and time provided for us to make 
 changes to existing usage! 

I looked at the embed HTML generated, and I don't see what doesn't work. 
All the links are valid, and the page that you land (the front page) 
seems more likely to covert the visitor to a mapper, because it now 
gives some text to explain where they've ended up.

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[OSM-talk] API URL cannot be resolved (was Re: Welcome box on the new map page)

2013-11-30 Per discussione Andrew Errington

Why can't I upload with JOSM today?  Is it related to the new UI changes?

I get this error:
Failed to open a connection to the remote 
server 'http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/'. Host 
name 'api.openstreetmap.org' could not be resolved. Please check the API URL 
in your preferences and your internet connection.

Has the URL for the API changed?  Nothing has changed at my end.

I notice that api.openstreetmap.org takes me to the map.  Is that right?

Best wishes,

Andrew




On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 10:43:53 Paul Norman wrote:
  From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
  Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:51 PM
  To: talk@openstreetmap.org
  Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome box on the new map page
 
  Which is why I simply ask that the old layout is made available again as

 that

  only requires access to pages that already exist.

 There would be time costs in supporting the code for what are essentially
 duplicates of other pages. You have to test every change against both sets
 of pages, and then there is the distinct code that appears in one but not
 the other.

  What is currently being offered is probably acceptable to users who are
  there with a view to contributing, and then requiring registration makes
  sense, but for the vast majority of visitors brought here by USERS of
  the data it's just not right.

 In EWG I brought up the opinion that a UI change should be evaluated on a)
 how well it converts visitors to mappers b) how well it retains
 visitors. Of course these are hard to measure, and it's not like the old
 site was rigerously evaluated against these criteria.

 The new site seems to be much better at directing visitors into becoming
 mappers. I have also shown it to inexperienced and new mappers and they
 found it an improvement.

  I know that there is a lot of support for NOT providing services

 I'd say there's a wide desire for offering services like OWL and routing
 on OSM.org. Of course, these take development hours, time, and money, so
 a wide desire doesn't translate into actually adding the services.

  but until a suitable replacement can be created for the many thousands of

 us

  using embeded maps, maintaining usable operation is important. The
  current changes are not compatible with using the embed function so THAT
  should have beendepricated first and time provided for us to make
  changes to existing usage!

 I looked at the embed HTML generated, and I don't see what doesn't work.
 All the links are valid, and the page that you land (the front page)
 seems more likely to covert the visitor to a mapper, because it now
 gives some text to explain where they've ended up.


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Re: [talk-au] Bicentennial National Trail

2013-11-30 Per discussione Steve Bennett

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 6:30 AM, Ian Sergeant inas66+...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 It seems the point of the three relations is to identify which parts
 of the trail are accessible to which categories of users.  How do you
 intend to encapsulate that info?

 What is the basis for splitting the trail into state sections, and
 putting three relations into another reln?  I don't think relations of
 relations is well supported, and I can't see the motivation for it
 here.


Hi guys,
  I noticed the three-way duplication but assumed it was for a different
reason: so that, say, a hiking map that looks for route=hiking relations
will show the BNT, a mountain bike map that looks for route=mtb will also
show it etc. Unfortunately I think this is basically legitimate: if the
same route is a hiking, cycling and mountain biking route (and we haven't
even done horse riding yet) then it probably needs those duplicates.

(FWIW, that's a bit of an if - most of the Victorian section is pretty
useless for cycling, and not great for unsupported hiking either.)

Btw you can see both the BNT and AAWT on my map, http://cycletour.org -
just zoom in a couple of clicks.

Steve
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[talk-au] Wednesday December 11th: meetup with VicRoads

2013-11-30 Per discussione Steve Bennett

Hi guys,
  I'm helping organise an open data meetup with VicRoads called Meet the
data owners:

http://www.meetup.com/Datahack-Melbourne/events/152600552/

The idea is to help build relationships between data consumers
(particularly developers) and Victorian government data providers, in this
case VicRoads. It's not specifically to do with OpenStreetMap, but I
thought some people on this list might have a lot to contribute to the
question: what could we do if VicRoads made more of their road and traffic
data available?

Anyway, if you're in Melbourne on Wednesday week, please RSVP and come
along. If it's a success there will be more of these in the future with
other Vic gov departments and agencies - some spatial, some not.

Steve
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Re: [talk-au] data.qld.gov.au explicit permission request

2013-11-30 Per discussione Steve Bennett

Hi Jason,
  Nice work - any response?

Steve


On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Jason Ward jasonjwa...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 My apologies if this has already been posted but I've just sent off a
 request to data.qld.gov.au for explicit permission to incorporate and
 publish their applicable datasets.  I've provided them a link to the SA
 Government response to the same permission request so I hope it is just a
 formality that one of their legal eagles can complete.

 SA Link provided to them:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/sa.data.gov.au_explicit_permission

 I'm pretty new to OSM and figured I'd better not waste my effort already
 expended by not having this type of permission supplied.  I know that the
 whole dataset is CC-BY-3.0 AU so I'm not even sure if my request is
 required (but I figure there is no harm in seeking it).

 --
 Cheers,

 Jason


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Re: [talk-au] data.qld.gov.au explicit permission request

2013-11-30 Per discussione Jason Ward

Hi Team (thanks Steve),

I called the 13QGOV number earlier this week and got referred to David from
Transport and Main Roads which is where the online enquiry was manually
referred to by a customer service rep.  They were working on a TMR
departmental response and in the online referral the context or information
that the enquiry was for the whole dataset was lost (To the extent that
David said the TMR response would cover only that departments dataset(s).

Thankfully the phone call and my adding that the request was for everything
in data.qld.gov.au means the TMR guy is including the whole-of-government
person or entity in their response back to me.

He said I'd get a written response the next day (I called on Wednesday).
 Nothing back from them yet but I'll call later next week to give them
plenty of time and if I get the right person that can respond for the whole
dataset rather than just one department (within the whole dataset) I'll get
further traction with the request.

That said, the TMR guy seemed to know and understand the background behind
the request and when I offered to provide more information on the ODbL side
of things he said that had already been discovered/addressed.

I'll keep you in the loop of course and update the Wiki with any outcomes.


On 1 December 2013 00:02, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Jason,
   Nice work - any response?

 Steve


 On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Jason Ward jasonjwa...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 My apologies if this has already been posted but I've just sent off a
 request to data.qld.gov.au for explicit permission to incorporate and
 publish their applicable datasets.  I've provided them a link to the SA
 Government response to the same permission request so I hope it is just a
 formality that one of their legal eagles can complete.

 SA Link provided to them:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/sa.data.gov.au_explicit_permission

 I'm pretty new to OSM and figured I'd better not waste my effort already
 expended by not having this type of permission supplied.  I know that the
 whole dataset is CC-BY-3.0 AU so I'm not even sure if my request is
 required (but I figure there is no harm in seeking it).

 --
 Cheers,

 Jason


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Jason
M: 0438740049
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[Talk-br] Ortofotos OSM

2013-11-30 Per discussione Clément Vialle

Bom dia,

Minha primeira colocação nesta lista...

Gostaria de saber se alguém conseguiu ortofotos do Brasil, em bancos de
dados livres...? . Obrigado!

Clément
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Re: [Talk-br] Ortofotos OSM

2013-11-30 Per discussione Gerald Weber

Oi Clément

perdoe a minha ignorância, mas o que são ortofotos? Para que servem?

abraço

Gerald


2013/11/30 Clément Vialle clement.via...@gmail.com

 Bom dia,

 Minha primeira colocação nesta lista...

 Gostaria de saber se alguém conseguiu ortofotos do Brasil, em bancos de
 dados livres...? . Obrigado!

 Clément

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[Talk-br] JournalMap

2013-11-30 Per discussione Gerald Weber

Achei um site interessante que localiza artigos científicos por região:
http://www.journalmap.org

Eles usam OSM como mapa-base.

Imagino que seja de interesse do pessoal de algumas áreas de ciências
biológicas e geologia

abraço

Gerald
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Re: [Talk-de] Fernbuslinien

Am 29. November 2013 11:27 schrieb Martin Trautmann tr...@gmx.de:

 Fernbuslinien kann man nicht mit Nahverkerslinien gleichsetzen.
 Letztere fahren feste Routen, erstere nicht.

 Fernbuslinien kann man auch nicht mit Bahnlinien gleichsetzen. Bei
 denen ist das Netz viel weniger dicht, die Routen daher auch fest.

 Am ehesten passt du Fernbuslinien die Analogie der Fluglinien. Es sind
 Punkt-zu-Punkt-Verbindungen der Haltestellen. Der Weg dazwischen ist
 frei wählbar - zwar nicht Vogelfluglinie, aber nicht exakt spezifiziert.



Ich bin vor vielen Jahren ein paarmal mit Fernbussen gefahren und hatte
dabei das Gefühl, dass die immer die gleichen Routen fahren. Es gibt ja
meist auch nicht so viele alternative Autobahnen, die man genausogut nehmen
könnte. Das bezieht sich auf die Strecke Berlin-Brüssel-Paris.

Je mehr Haltestellen es gibt, um so weniger sind die Routen flexibel. Eine
Buslinie hinsichtlich der gefahrenen Strecke mit einer Flugroute zu
vergleichen trifft es m.E. nicht.

Wie immer sollte das der Mapper entscheiden, ob das Eintragen Sinn macht.
Aus meiner Erfahrung (vor allem im Ausland, weil es in Deutschland kaum
Fernbusse gibt) sind das feste Strecken, die gefahren werden.

Gruß Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] Fernbuslinien

2013-11-30 Per discussione Dirk Sohler

Martin Koppenhoefer schrieb:
 Je mehr Haltestellen es gibt, um so weniger sind die Routen flexibel.
 Eine Buslinie hinsichtlich der gefahrenen Strecke mit einer Flugroute
 zu vergleichen trifft es m.E. nicht.

Die Frage ist halt: Wie stark unterscheiden sich die Routen von
Fern-Linienbussen von den Routen der Nah-Linienbusse, für die auch
meistens nicht nur die Haltestellen, sondern auch die Wege zwischen den
Haltestellen gemappt sind.

In beiden Fällen wird die Route wohl so gewählt worden sein, dass sie
einen optimalen Kompromiss zwischen Sicherheit und Schnelligkeit
darstellt – Und sollte meiner Meinung nach daher in beiden Fällen
gemappt werden.

Grüße,
Dirk

-- 
Local time :: Ortszeit :: DE-HH
2013-11-30T11:39:27+0100


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Re: [Talk-de] Fernbuslinien

Am 30. November 2013 11:41 schrieb Dirk Sohler s...@0x7be.de:

 Die Frage ist halt: Wie stark unterscheiden sich die Routen von
 Fern-Linienbussen von den Routen der Nah-Linienbusse, für die auch
 meistens nicht nur die Haltestellen, sondern auch die Wege zwischen den
 Haltestellen gemappt sind.



was sind Nah-Linienbusse und was Fern-Linienbusse? Kannst Du das
definieren/abgrenzen? Unterscheidet sich das nach Entfernung? Nach Abstand
der Haltestellen? Ob es ein zugehöriges Einheitstarifgebiet gibt? Nach
Frequenz der angebotenen Routen? Vom Operator? Ob das Stadtgebiet verlassen
wird? Im ländlichen Raum gibt es durchaus viele Busse, wo es nicht klar ist
(m.E.) ob das nun Fern oder Nah-verkehr ist.

Bei internationalen, langen Strecken mit sehr wenigen Haltestellen (meist
große Busbahnhöfe), die wohl unzweideutig dem Fernverkehr zugehören, fahren
die Busse praktisch immer Autobahn und von daher ist die Route weitgehend
fest.

Gruß Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] landuse=grass

Am 29. November 2013 17:28 schrieb cracklinrain cra_klinr...@gmx.de:

  http://geoobserver.wordpress.com/2013/11/28/osm-golfplatz-in-30-minuten/

 Mir ist mal aufgefallen, dass in dem Video landuse=grass genutzt wird.

 Sollte der Tag nicht mal durch so etwas wie landcover=grass ersetzt
 werden? Darum geht es hier ja eigentlich.



kann man ja tun (persönlich nutze ich landcover aber dadurch, dass das
nicht gerendert wird, steht man da fast auf verlorenem Posten, man kann
aber auf jeden Fall beides setzen, da ja unterschiedliche keys verwendet
werden, so dass in einer fernen Zukunft vielleicht mal der Wechsel klappt).




 landuse=recreation_ground, wenn auch für andere Polygone, wäre doch hier
 passender.



Für Golfplätze gibt es bereits ein ziemlich spezifisches Proposal, wie man
die relevanten Details taggen kann:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dgolf_course

(siehe subtags dort, das leisure=golf_course ist der Haupttag für die
Gesamtanlage).

Gruß Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] Fernbuslinien

2013-11-30 Per discussione Dirk Sohler

Martin Koppenhoefer schrieb:
 was sind Nah-Linienbusse und was Fern-Linienbusse? Kannst Du das
 definieren/abgrenzen?

Nah-Linienbusse werden von örtlichen Betreibern (HVV, MVB, VBB, etc.)
angeboten (ganz klassischer ÖPNV eben). Fern-Linienbusse von
überregionalen Anbietern (MFB, BLB, Eurolines, etc.) bereitgestellt –
So als ganz grobe Unterscheidung.


 Im ländlichen Raum gibt es durchaus viele Busse, wo es nicht klar ist
 (m.E.) ob das nun Fern oder Nah-verkehr ist.

Na ja, ich würde das eher vom Betreiber, als von der Strecke abhängig
machen. So muten in Flächenländern viele Busverbidungen zwar sehr
Fernbusartig an, bleiben aber doch praktisch ausschließlich im
jeweiligen Bundesland. Daher würde ich si enicht zu den Fernbussen
zählen wollen.


Grüße,
Dirk

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Re: [Talk-de] Fernbuslinien

2013-11-30 Per discussione Falk Zscheile

Am 30. November 2013 12:33 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
 Am 30. November 2013 11:41 schrieb Dirk Sohler s...@0x7be.de:

 Die Frage ist halt: Wie stark unterscheiden sich die Routen von
 Fern-Linienbussen von den Routen der Nah-Linienbusse, für die auch
 meistens nicht nur die Haltestellen, sondern auch die Wege zwischen den
 Haltestellen gemappt sind.



 was sind Nah-Linienbusse und was Fern-Linienbusse? Kannst Du das
 definieren/abgrenzen?

Nah-Linienbusse sind zumindest in Deutschland auch als Teilmenge des
ÖPNV bekannt. Wie das in anderen Ländern ist (Italien) erzählt und am
Besten Martin K. Nahverkehr ist in Deutschland kommunale Aufgabe
(Daseinsvorsorge). Darsus ergibt sich dann auch schon eine Eingrenzung
nach der Entfernung.

 Unterscheidet sich das nach Entfernung?

Ja. Ich glaube es gibt da die Unterscheidung Nah-, Regional- und Fernverkehr.

 Nach Abstand
 der Haltestellen?
Ja, Fernbuslinien fahren pro Stadt nur ein oder zwei Haltestellen an.
Nahverkehr hält alle paar Meter.

 Ob es ein zugehöriges Einheitstarifgebiet gibt?
Eher nicht, das hat eher etwas mit Kundenfreundlichkeit (mehr oder
weniger, wenn ich mir so manche Erläuterung zu Zonenplänen anschaue)
und Verwaltungsvereinfachung und -kooperation zu tun.

Nach
 Frequenz der angebotenen Routen?

Nahverkehr ist sicher stärker an Hauptverkehrszeiten orientiert als
der Fernverkehr. Aber insgesamt ein sehr weiches Kriterium.

 Vom Operator? Ob das Stadtgebiet verlassen
 wird?
s.o. Kommunale Aufgaben (de).

 Im ländlichen Raum gibt es durchaus viele Busse, wo es nicht klar ist
 (m.E.) ob das nun Fern oder Nah-verkehr ist.

Das heißt dann Regionalverkehr. Keine Ahnung ob der vom Land oder den
Kommunen organisiert wird.

 Bei internationalen, langen Strecken mit sehr wenigen Haltestellen (meist
 große Busbahnhöfe), die wohl unzweideutig dem Fernverkehr zugehören, fahren
 die Busse praktisch immer Autobahn und von daher ist die Route weitgehend
 fest.

So ist es.

Falk

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Re: [Talk-it] utente che toglie tag ...

2013/11/29 Simone F. grop...@gmail.com

 el caso qualcuno voglia ripristinare i platform, si possono scaricare con
 overpass turbo (servono un paio di minuti) ed aprire in JOSM (selezionando
 le way chiuse con Cerca: closed).


 http://tyrasd.github.io/overpass-ide/index.html?Q=(%0Away%0A%20%20%5B%22railway%22%3D%22platform%22%5D%0A%20%20(%7B%7Bbbox%7D%7D)%0A%20%20(user%3A%22mcheckimport%22)%3B%0A%3E%3B%0A)%3B%0Aout%20meta%20qt%3BC=45.80774;11.89545;8R

 Essendo un bug di Osmose, andrebbe segnalato su
 http://trac.openstreetmap.fr/query
 scegliendo backend come component.




invece quel altro bug (Osmose segnala missing roundabout-tag) è
registrato o persiste? E' impossibile capire da remoto se una strada
circolare è un roundabout o meno (dipende da chi ha la precedenza).

ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] SIC, ZPS e Riserve naturali speciali coincidenti

2013/11/29 Giovanni Caudullo giovanni.caudu...@gmail.com

 Quindi io metterei tutti i livelli di protezione e che rimangano separati
 a seconda del tipo di protezione.



si, metterei una relazione a parte (o forse poligono, vedi tu) per ogni
riserva naturale, anche se sovraposti, per poter associare i vari tags
(operator, nome, classificazione e livello di protezione ecc.) ad un
oggetto distinto.

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Progresso mappatura Sardegna

2013-11-30 Per discussione Simone F.

Il giorno 28 novembre 2013 10:28, Maurizio Napolitano
napoo...@gmail.comha scritto:

 Io farei questo ragionamento sulla base dello storico di osm:
 ...
 3 - individuare il numero di persone coinvolte nell'aggiornamento
 ...


Aggiungo qualche numero in proposito.

Tenendo conto solo della data di modifica dei nodi, risulta che almeno 72
mappatori abbiano mappato in Sardegna dal 17 novembre.

MapperNodi toccati
1sbiribizio28582
2dforsi23065
3Hartmut Holzgraefe19182
4Cascafico16013
5simone_girardelli14886
6CDaniela13783
7Rattorosso11540
8Odiug9317
9sabas-import9044
10mcheckimport8469
11Davide Massidda7452
12niubii6903
13sabas885597
14vsandre5281
15Griphon4113
16Goffredo2698
17Tizianos2690
18Mich742286
19SkyOne1954
20halfd1834
21tyr_asd1654
22dieterdreist1577
23arcanma1518
24Samuele Battarra1422
25sirb751304
26Vincenzo1288
27CristianCantoro1255
28Andria Tzedda1212
29SteveVG1209
30AnyFile1189
31Francesca F1070
32geomichele906
33humbach852
34Aury88760
35Viking81738
36kiro68682
37trekker48663
38annazanchetta589
39rossella c581
40Masare2578
41pelatom520
42coso476
43alexbit467
44eknus435
45feli_caxa382
46mfortini310
47cyflo296
48Diego Guidotti262
49simone250
50relet248
51AZonzo195
52Nocch170
53ilrobi149
54Maxmor130
55Basik71116
56Carlozz93
57andria_import87
58Salak56
59Alberto Cottica36
60dexter00730
61SldrHartman27
62cristiano7927
63agriturismo su boschettu22
64Rudolf Mayer8
65BCNorwich5
66l22124
67Fabiano Peddis3
68docpuddu2
69csalvaterra1
70foxandpotatoes1
71marceMTB1
72venerdi1


(Conteggi ottenuti:
- scaricando i dati sui nodi tramite query Overpass:
http://overpass.osm.rambler.ru/cgi/interpreter?data=area[name=Sardegna];node(area)(newer:2013-11-17T00:00:00Z);out
meta qt;

- convertiti poi in database con spatialite_osm_raw ed interrogati con:
SELECT user, Count()
FROM osm_nodes
GROUP BY user
ORDER BY Count() DESC;)


Ciao,
Simone F.
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Re: [Talk-it] SIC, ZPS e Riserve naturali speciali coincidenti

2013-11-30 Per discussione Giovanni Caudullo

La Rete Natura 2000 ha SIC e ZPS tutelate da Direttive europee diverse, ci
sono casi di aree separate, parzialmente coincidenti e casi di perfetta
sovrapposizione. Usando delle relazioni, le metti entrambi sullo stesso
poligono.
Per quanto riguarda i SIR, non li conosco. Fanno probabilmente parte di una
rete di aree protette regionali. Bisogna andare a vedere le leggi regionali
relative per capire bene come classificarle.
Ciao a tutti
Giovanni
Il 29/nov/2013 18:08 Tiziano Gedda dufou...@libero.it ha scritto:

Grazie della risposta Giovanni.
Controllerò bene la sovrapposizione dei vari livelli. Il dubbio mi è
venuto perché nel file shp della Regione Piemonte per quanto riguarda i SIC
talvolta c’è proprio scritto SIC e ZPS coincidenti e in questo caso non
saprei proprio come gestirli.

Nel frattempo mi è sorta un’altra domanda, come classifico le zone SIR
(sito di interesse regionale) come ad esempio il Castello di Aglié? che
numero posso impostare per quanto riguarda il tag protect_class?

Grazie

Tiziano

Il giorno 29 novembre 2013 14:02:38 Giovanni Caudullo
giovanni.caudu...@gmail.com ha scritto

Ciao
effettivamente un'area può essere protetta in molte forme diverse, e ne
consegue che viene tutelata con leggi diverse e a diversi livelli. Non si
può parlare di privilegio dell'una o dell'altra, dovrebbero coesistere i
diversi livelli contemporaneamente. Anche perchè è difficile che un
parco/riserva/ecc. abbia lo stesso identico confine se è contemporaneamente
anche una ZPS, un SIC, un'area Ramsar, un Zona di Ripopolamento, WWF, ecc.
Spesso si sovrappondono solo in parte.
Quindi io metterei tutti i livelli di protezione e che rimangano separati a
seconda del tipo di protezione.
Ciao a tutti
Giovanni

Il giorno 28 novembre 2013 16:46, Tiziano Gedda dufou...@libero.it ha
scritto:

Ciao a tutti,
ho cominciato ad inserire SIC, ZPS e Riserve Naturali Speciali nel
Canavese (Ivrea - Torino) seguendo le indicazioni riportate sul wiki
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary=protected_area ed
ho notato che in alcuni casi, come per il Lago di Viverone e di Candia o
per la Bessa e il Gran Paradiso, SIC e ZPS, normate a livello europeo, si
sovrappongono fra loro o con le Riserve naturali speciali regionali.
Qualcuno saprebbe indicarmi se si debba privilegiare una denominazione di
zona rispetto ad un?altra o come operare a livello di tag?

Grazie dell'aiuto

Tiziano

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Re: [Talk-it] utente che toglie tag ...

2013-11-30 Per discussione Simone F.

Il giorno 30 novembre 2013 12:43, Martin Koppenhoefer 
dieterdre...@gmail.com ha scritto:


 2013/11/29 Simone F. grop...@gmail.com

 Essendo un bug di Osmose, andrebbe segnalato su
 http://trac.openstreetmap.fr/query
 scegliendo backend come component.


 invece quel altro bug (Osmose segnala missing roundabout-tag) è
 registrato o persiste?


Non lo vedo nella lista dei bugs.

E' impossibile capire da remoto se una strada circolare è un roundabout o
 meno (dipende da chi ha la precedenza).


Attualmente Osmose mostra qualche errore di questo tipo in Francia e
nessuno in Italia.
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/it/map/?zoom=6lat=45.36352lon=3.33328layers=B00FFTitem=2010level=1
Se ci sono dei falsi positivi si possono segnalare.
Certo, se questi diventassero troppo numerosi, sarebbe meglio chiedere di
rimuovere il controllo, ma per il momento, quei due o tre casi che ho
guardato, mi sembrano da correggere


Ciao,
Simone F.
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Re: [Talk-it] Restyling openstreetmap.org imminente

2013-11-30 Per discussione Aury88

la modifica grafica è appena stata attivata. ora la pagina ufficiale si
presenta con la nuova grafica.
do il mio parere da grafico niubbo-dilettante: questo nuovo stile grafico è
più moderno e tendenzialmente un po' più pulito ma avrei dei ma:
*Come già detto da alcuni manca il link sia al wiki sia ai blog, al posto
del link al diario degli utenti avrei preferito di gran lunga un link alla
pagina blogs (che comprende già i diari degli utenti) mentre il tag wiki,
essendo utile per lo più in fase editing potrei capire il nasconderlo nella
videata principale.
*sia i pulsanti Learn More sia Start Mapping sotto la barra di ricerca
sono ridondanti con i pulsanti rispettivamente About ed iscriviti posti
in alto a destra (nb:alcuni pulsanti hanno la prime lettere di ogni parola
maiuscola, altri solo la prima lettera della prima parola altri nessuna
lettera maiuscola XD ).
*Onestamente preferisco mi venga mangiato un intero lato dello schermo
piuttosto che vedere una cosa che occupa metà/un terzo del suddetto
lato...mi riferisco alla didascalia nell'angolo superiore sinistro della
mappa (comprendente i due pulsanti ridondanti, la barra di ricerca e un
testo di benvenuto.)
fosse possibile chiuderla (lasciando magari solo la barra di ricerca) mi
potrebbe anche piacere, ma così no...sembra una cosa aggiunta li a metà
per il resto sono molto soddisfatto di come viene visualizzato il tutto...a
parte qualche piccolo difetto che ho riscontrato nel caricamento della mappa
ogni tanto (una volta mi si è bloccata del tutto la mappa in una posizione,
un'altra volta non si è aggiornata l'area visualizzata nell'anteprima dei
layer) sono molto felice dell'opzione Dove sono? nella barra (se c'era già
non me ne ero mai accorto :P ) e di come vengono evidenziati gli elementi
ricercati e visualizzati i loro tag. Sono anche molto felice dell'andamento
che vede dedicare alla mappa sempre più spazio.
In generale quindi un ottimo lavoro; complimenti agli sviluppatori :)



-
Ciao,
Aury
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Re: [Talk-it] utente che toglie tag ...

2013-11-30 Per discussione Daniele Forsi

Il 30 novembre 2013 13:27, Simone F. ha scritto:

 Attualmente Osmose mostra qualche errore di questo tipo in Francia e nessuno
 in Italia.

 http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/it/map/?zoom=6lat=45.36352lon=3.33328layers=B00FFTitem=2010level=1

probabilmente perché li ha già guardati qualcuno (tra cui io) e i dati
italiani sono vecchi di un mese

 Se ci sono dei falsi positivi si possono segnalare.
 Certo, se questi diventassero troppo numerosi, sarebbe meglio chiedere di
 rimuovere il controllo, ma per il momento, quei due o tre casi che ho
 guardato, mi sembrano da correggere

no, io la penso come Martin, è un controllo che semplicemente non si
può fare in base al fatto che la way sia chiusa e a senso unico:
intanto osmose segnala l'errore anche per le way quadrate (che IMHO
sono una prova che il mappatore non voleva disegnare una rotatoria) e
poi dipende dalla segnaletica stradale, non dalla forma

-- 
Daniele Forsi

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Re: [Talk-it] Restyling openstreetmap.org imminente

2013-11-30 Per discussione bredy

Concordo sulla mancanza del collegamento al wiki, a mio avviso chi si iscrive
a OSM dovrebbe essere automaticamente iscritto al wiki, così almeno saprebbe
che c'è una comunità, che ci sono dei progetti e un modo per taggare.

Come nella pagina del profilo ti da gli utenti vicini, ma se non son attivi
cosa mi interessa sapere chi sono, a me interessa sapere con chi poter
condividere il lavoro per migliorare un'area.



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[Talk-it] Translatewiki

2013-11-30 Per discussione sabas88

Ciao,
chi è abilitato alla traduzione delle stringhe su Translatewiki, può
tradurre le parti mancanti?
In particolare layouts.copyright deve diventare Copyright

https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/559

Grazie,
Stefano
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Re: [Talk-co] Visibilidad de Barrios

2013-11-30 Per discussione Harrier Co

Al respecto pienso son tres capas de visibiidad

las ciudades o pueblos
las localidades o comunas
los barrios


harrierco


Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 16:00:49 -0500
From: hyan...@gmail.com
To: talk-co@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-co] Visibilidad de Barrios

Correcto, para barrios en Colombia se está usando el nivel 9
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative#10_admin_level_values_for_specific_countries


Cada barrio es un multipolígono conformado por los vectores de frontera, creo 
que podemos seguir el parámetro de Duitama ¿qué opinan?  Manchito ¿alguna 
sugerencia?


El 28 de noviembre de 2013 15:39, Leonardo Gutierrez l...@nuevoartesano.com 
escribió:

Bennet yo he trabajado el tema de barrios en Duitama y Sogamoso, puedes verlos 
en : 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/5.8055/-73.0261



y en:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/5.7537/-72.8949




El 28 de noviembre de 2013 09:14, Bennet Campoverde benets...@hotmail.com 
escribió:





hola harrieco; a que te refieres con visibilidad de barrios?  A que aparezca 
la rotulación que identifique la zona donde yace cada barrio?  
Bennet 

From: harrie...@hotmail.com


To: talk-co@openstreetmap.org
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 07:53:41 -0500
Subject: [Talk-co] Visibilidad de Barrios




Con el paso en el paado de suburb a neighborhood se perido la visibilidad de 
barrios, que creo al menos en la ciudad es un aspecto básico y util  de los 
mapas(asi lo considero personalmente), no se si podamos adoptar paulatinamete 
el esquema de Buenos Aires  
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-34.6369/-58.6900



harrierco
  

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[Talk-co] I'm in charge of crowd mapping and volunteers initiatives linked to humanitarian response needs. (Luis Hernando OCHA UN Manila)

2013-11-30 Per discussione Henry Diaz Rodriguez


Hi friends. (*) (*) Please take note:(*) (*) As you know we are in Manila with 
the United Nations emergency response team . I'm in charge of crowd mapping and 
volunteers initiatives linked to humanitarian response needs.   I want to map 
the different capacities from the volunteers that may be used for Humanitarian 
action. I know that this weekend will take place some hackatons in different 
places.  So please keep me informed in aguil...@un.org . Thanks




Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 14:01:31 -0500
From: sfd.bogota...@gmail.com
To: talk-co@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-co] [JSLColombia] Comunidad de SL Tunja envia comunicado acerca 
del evento

Buenas a todos

Por este medio, y por solicitud de los miembros de la comunidad de Software 
Libre (SL) en Tunja quienes nos pidieron el favor de colaborarles, les hacemos 
llegar por este medio la carta oficial emitida por ellos, para la realización 
de las Jornadas de Software Libre (JSL) en Tunja 2013, así como los resultados 
y compromisos fijados en la edición del año pasado, para realizarse en este 
año. http://www.jslcolombia.info/



Las Jornadas de Software Libre (JSL) Colombia, es un evento que integra a todos 
aquellos que trabajen con las tecnologías libres como Software Libre, Hardware 
Libre, Cultura Libre, Licenciamientos Libres, Redes Inalámbricas Comunitarias 
Libres, entre otros aspectos, y poder realizar y socializar proyectos de 
impacto social que abarquen el sector empresarial, gubernamental, educativo y 
profesional, entre otros. 



En este link se puede descargar la carta oficial emitida por la Comunidad de 
Software Libre en Tunjahttp://ubuntuone.com/0OzHz6Yy7q9yg4W53PiYS6




Los miembros de las distintas comunidades, empresas, entidades,etc, o personas 
independientes que trabajen con tecnologías libres, y que estén interesadas en 
participar y asistir a las Jornadas de Software Libre en Tunja (JSL Tunja), 
deben diligenciar el presente formulario con el fin de poder organizar dicha 
actividad a nivel logistico.


https://eventioz.com.ar/e/jsl-tunja-2013

Se aclara por este medio, que la fecha oficial para hacer dicho evento, se 
publicará en próximos dias, y se les confirmará a las personas registradas 
previamente.



Ciudad: TunjaLugar : Por definirFecha y Hora:Se realizará en el mes de 
noviembre, la fecha exacta se publicará en los medios oficiales del evento, y 
se le comunicará a las personas inscritas previamente.



Cordialmente


Comunidad de Software Libre en TunjaOrganizadores de las JSL Colombia
PD: Por este medio, se les pide el favor de reenviar dicho correo a mas 
personas que estén interesadas en participar y formar parte de las distintas 
mesas de trabajo con que cuenta dicha actividad, relacionado con las 
tecnologías libres.




-- 
Atentamente
 
COMITE ORGANIZADOR 

Software Freedom Day Bogotá (@SFDBta)
http://sfdbogota.info


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Re: [Talk-co] I'm in charge of crowd mapping and volunteers initiatives linked to humanitarian response needs. (Luis Hernando OCHA UN Manila)

2013-11-30 Per discussione hyan...@gmail.com

Creo que Luis Aguilar está suscrito a esta lista, cuya competencia en mayor
grado será la de actualizar la cartografía remotamente trazando sobre
imágenes aéreas.

Para aquellos que deseen contribuir en esta área, la tarea más urgente es
la # 375

http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/375

Más tareas en

http://tasks.hotosm.org/

Humberto Yances
Equipo Humanitario OSM


El 30 de noviembre de 2013 11:35, Henry Diaz Rodriguez 
oshitro...@hotmail.com escribió:


 Hi friends. (*) (*) Please take note:(*) (*) As you know we are in Manila
 with the United Nations emergency response team . I'm in charge of crowd
 mapping and volunteers initiatives linked to humanitarian response needs.
 I want to map the different capacities from the volunteers that may be used
 for Humanitarian action. I know that this weekend will take place some
 hackatons in different places.  So please keep me informed in
 aguil...@un.org . Thanks





 --
 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 14:01:31 -0500
 From: sfd.bogota...@gmail.com
 To: talk-co@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-co] [JSLColombia] Comunidad de SL Tunja envia comunicado
 acerca del evento

 Buenas a todos

 Por este medio, y por solicitud de los miembros de la comunidad de
 Software Libre (SL) en Tunja quienes nos pidieron el favor de colaborarles,
 les hacemos llegar por este medio la carta oficial emitida por ellos, para
 la realización de las Jornadas de Software Libre (JSL) en Tunja 2013, así
 como los resultados y compromisos fijados en la edición del año pasado,
 para realizarse en este año. http://www.jslcolombia.info/

 Las Jornadas de Software Libre (JSL) Colombia, es un evento que integra a
 todos aquellos que trabajen con las tecnologías libres como Software Libre,
 Hardware Libre, Cultura Libre, Licenciamientos Libres, Redes Inalámbricas
 Comunitarias Libres, entre otros aspectos, y poder realizar y socializar
 proyectos de impacto social que abarquen el sector empresarial,
 gubernamental, educativo y profesional, entre otros.

 En este link se puede descargar la carta oficial emitida por la Comunidad
 de Software Libre en Tunja
 http://ubuntuone.com/0OzHz6Yy7q9yg4W53PiYS6

 Los miembros de las distintas comunidades, empresas, entidades,etc, o
 personas independientes que trabajen con tecnologías libres, y que estén
 interesadas en participar y asistir a las Jornadas de Software Libre en
 Tunja (JSL Tunja), deben diligenciar el presente formulario con el fin de
 poder organizar dicha actividad a nivel logistico.
 https://eventioz.com.ar/e/jsl-tunja-2013

 Se aclara por este medio, que la fecha oficial para hacer dicho evento, se
 publicará en próximos dias, y se les confirmará a las personas registradas
 previamente.

 Ciudad: Tunja
 Lugar : Por definir
 Fecha y Hora:Se realizará en el mes de noviembre, la fecha exacta se
 publicará en los medios oficiales del evento, y se le comunicará a las
 personas inscritas previamente.

 Cordialmente


 Comunidad de Software Libre en Tunja
 Organizadores de las JSL Colombia

 PD: Por este medio, se les pide el favor de reenviar dicho correo a mas
 personas que estén interesadas en participar y formar parte de las
 distintas mesas de trabajo con que cuenta dicha actividad, relacionado con
 las tecnologías libres.


 --
 Atentamente

 COMITE ORGANIZADOR
 Software Freedom Day Bogotá (@SFDBta)
 http://sfdbogota.info

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Re: [Talk-co] Fuente de informacion Bogota

2013-11-30 Per discussione hyan...@gmail.com

Hola,

Creo que el punto sobre la toponimia lo hemos dialogado previamente.  Los
nombres de las cosas no tienen derechos de autor; por lo tanto en algún
momento concluimos que podíamos tomar los nombres de los ríos de los mapas
de IGAC.


El 30 de noviembre de 2013 11:35, Harrier Co harrie...@hotmail.comescribió:

 De una semana para aca veo que aparecen nombres de calles muy rapido,
 alguien sabe la fuente de informacion que estará usando vannesalaro??


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Re: [Talk-dk] CykelSuperStier, cykeltags og kopper

2013-11-30 Per discussione Soren Johannessen

Hej alle

Jeg tror der menes alle pt. 20 kommuner  der er gået i med i
Cykelsuperstier samarbejdet og områderne  der. Det drejer sig om
følgende kommuner.

Albertslund, Allerød, Ballerup, Brøndby, Egedal, Fredensborg,
Frederiksberg, Frederikssund, Furesø, Gentofte, Gladsaxe, Herlev,
Hvidovre, Høje-Taastrup, Hørsholm, Ishøj, København, Lyngby-Taarbæk,
Rudersdal, Rødovre, Vallensbæk.

 Mere om Cykelsuperstier her http://www.cykelsuperstier.dk/content/faq

Hvor der de kommende år skal anlægges ca. 28 ruter (pt. er der to
ruter i luften).

Selv mener jeg at kommunerne i Cykelsuperstier samarbejdet  bør
afholde OSM mapping parties for deres borgere og ad den vej få nye
lokale med den særlige vigtige lokalkendskab med. Hvis altså at
kommunerne går all-in med at bruge OSM som datagrundlag for deres
rutenavigation.

Vh
Søren


2013/11/30 Michel Coene michel.co...@gmail.com:
 Andreas,
 Kan du ikke være lidt mere specifikt?  Snakker vi om indre KBH?  Større veje
 ind i byen?  Hvor langt vil du gå vest og syd?
 Michel


 2013/11/30 Ivar Madsen lists.openstreetmap@milli.dk

 Hvis man kikker på kortet omkring bl.a. Budinge rundkørsel, så er den
 faldet
 ud, men routeren kan godt beregne en rute den vej.




 Fredag den 29. november 2013 21:57:24 skrev Andreas Hammershøj:
  Hej, jeg har tidligere begået mig herinde på vegne af Cyklistforbundets
  VoresKort-projekt. Nu arbejder jeg istedet for cykelrådgivningsfirmaet
  Copenhagen Lanes.
 
  Her har jeg lavet en mindre analyse af nord-østsjællands
  cykelinfrastruktur i OSM. Anledningen er at CykelSuperStier er igang med
  deres egen cykelruteplanlægger: http://cykelsuperstier.dk/
 
  Konklusionen er at området generelt er samvittighedsfuldt indtegnet, men
  at det i visse områder halter med tagging af eksempelvis cycleway=track
  og cycleway=lane.
 
  Jeg har derfor foreslået CykelSuperStier at forsøge at skabe
  opmærksomhed om emnet her på talk-dk. Mit forslag har været at samle op
  hvor jeg slap hos Vores Kort og lave personlige mapper-kopper til de
  5-10 mappere der fikser flest cykeltags i det udvalgte område indenfor
  en given periode.
  Ligesom den kop jeg i sin tid lavede til Krægpøth er tanken at det skal
  være unika-kopper med navn og kortudsnit af mapperens fokusområde:
  http://voreskort.cyklist.net/2011/10/14/vores-kop/
 
  Er det noget der er interesse for?
 
  Vh
  Andreas Hammershøj
 
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 --
 Michel Coene
 Georginehaven 94
 Dk-2765 Smørum

 +45 52339625

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Re: [Talk-dk] CykelSuperStier, cykeltags og kopper

2013-11-30 Per discussione Uffe Kousgaard


Hej,

Er siden i beta? For den virker ikke særlig godt med IE10 (og nej, 
svaret på mit spørgsmål er ikke at jeg skal prøve med en anden browser).


Jeg kan zoome ind ét niveau med rullehjulet og derefter hverken ind 
eller ud. Kun panorere. Knapperne med + og - virker heller ikke.


Anlagte ruter vises kun NV for et sted ved Hulgårdsvej.
Ingen planlagte ruter.
Så er der nogle orange cirker, men de er allesammen halve.

mvh
Uffe Kousgaard

Andreas Hammershøj wrote:
Hej, jeg har tidligere begået mig herinde på vegne af 
Cyklistforbundets VoresKort-projekt. Nu arbejder jeg istedet for 
cykelrådgivningsfirmaet Copenhagen Lanes.


Her har jeg lavet en mindre analyse af nord-østsjællands 
cykelinfrastruktur i OSM. Anledningen er at CykelSuperStier er igang 
med deres egen cykelruteplanlægger: http://cykelsuperstier.dk/


Konklusionen er at området generelt er samvittighedsfuldt indtegnet, 
men at det i visse områder halter med tagging af eksempelvis 
cycleway=track og cycleway=lane.


Jeg har derfor foreslået CykelSuperStier at forsøge at skabe 
opmærksomhed om emnet her på talk-dk. Mit forslag har været at samle 
op hvor jeg slap hos Vores Kort og lave personlige mapper-kopper til 
de 5-10 mappere der fikser flest cykeltags i det udvalgte område 
indenfor en given periode.
Ligesom den kop jeg i sin tid lavede til Krægpøth er tanken at det 
skal være unika-kopper med navn og kortudsnit af mapperens 
fokusområde: http://voreskort.cyklist.net/2011/10/14/vores-kop/


Er det noget der er interesse for?

Vh
Andreas Hammershøj

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Re: [Talk-dk] CykelSuperStier, cykeltags og kopper

2013-11-30 Per discussione Soren Johannessen

Hvis man kun vil rette vejnettet for et større område og ikke ønsker
alt muligt andre objekter (bygninger, søer osv) skal indlæses i JOSM.

Så kan Overpass Turbo benyttes - se fx denne søgning
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1Eu over Læsø kun på tagget highway=XX
Klik på Søg og dernæst gå i Eksporter menuen og vælg JOSM (du skal
have JOSM kørende med remote kontrol funktionen sat til)
Nu vil kun highway indlæses og du kan lave rettelser for Læsø - Flyt
Overpass Turbo kortudsnittet til et andet område og lav en ny søgning.

Husk at jo større område du vil lave ændringer i - husk at få det gemt
så hurtigt som muligt - så der ikke opstår konfliktversioner pga anden
OSM frivillig også arbejder der


vh Søren



2013/11/30 Anders Lund and...@alweb.dk:
 Lørdag den 30. november 2013 14:53:57 skrev Michel Coene:
 Hvis man skal lave den slags er det meget irriterende at man skal arbejde i
 så små stomper for ikke at ramme serverens begrænsning.  Plus man mister
 meget tid ved at downloade huse, p-pladser og andre ting man ikke har behov
 for.Er det muligt i JOSM at begrænse downloadet til kun at indeholde
 highway tagget?
 M

 Prøv at søge på microformats.dk, der er en masse tips til søgning is osm :)




 2013/11/30 Anders Lund and...@alweb.dk

  Lørdag den 30. november 2013 11:48:25 skrev Uffe Kousgaard:
   Er siden i beta? For den virker ikke særlig godt med IE10 (og nej,
   svaret på mit spørgsmål er ikke at jeg skal prøve med en anden browser).
 
  Både IE og leaflet er i beta :)
 
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Re: [Talk-dk] CykelSuperStier, cykeltags og kopper

2013-11-30 Per discussione Roger Christensen Gmail

Hej Andreas,
Man kunne måske oprette en side, hvor områder der er checket, bliver listet.
Jeg har f.eks. checket hele Gentofte Kommune.

Hilsen
Roger
Cyklistforbundet, Gentofte Afdeling

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Andreas Hammershøj [mailto:andr...@copenhagenlanes.dk] 
Sendt: 29. november 2013 21:57
Til: talk-dk@openstreetmap.org
Emne: [Talk-dk] CykelSuperStier, cykeltags og kopper

Hej, jeg har tidligere begået mig herinde på vegne af Cyklistforbundets
VoresKort-projekt. Nu arbejder jeg istedet for cykelrådgivningsfirmaet
Copenhagen Lanes.

Her har jeg lavet en mindre analyse af nord-østsjællands cykelinfrastruktur
i OSM. Anledningen er at CykelSuperStier er igang med deres egen
cykelruteplanlægger: http://cykelsuperstier.dk/

Konklusionen er at området generelt er samvittighedsfuldt indtegnet, men at
det i visse områder halter med tagging af eksempelvis cycleway=track og
cycleway=lane.

Jeg har derfor foreslået CykelSuperStier at forsøge at skabe opmærksomhed om
emnet her på talk-dk. Mit forslag har været at samle op hvor jeg slap hos
Vores Kort og lave personlige mapper-kopper til de
5-10 mappere der fikser flest cykeltags i det udvalgte område indenfor en
given periode.
Ligesom den kop jeg i sin tid lavede til Krægpøth er tanken at det skal være
unika-kopper med navn og kortudsnit af mapperens fokusområde: 
http://voreskort.cyklist.net/2011/10/14/vores-kop/

Er det noget der er interesse for?

Vh
Andreas Hammershøj

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[Talk-lv] tuurisma pieluugsme

2013-11-30 Per discussione Rich

varbuut kaads tuurisma karteetaajs var nedaudz pielabot tagus shim
objektam ;)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2555289514

lai gan religion=riga_tours ir ok :D
-- 
 Rich

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Re: [Talk-lv] tuurisma pieluugsme

2013-11-30 Per discussione Rich

On 11/30/2013 01:47 PM, Rich wrote:
 varbuut kaads tuurisma karteetaajs var nedaudz pielabot tagus shim
 objektam ;)
 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2555289514
 
 lai gan religion=riga_tours ir ok :D

uh. tur veel ir paarvadaajumi, ziedi utml pusreklaamas. labi, bish
veelaak laikam pats meegjinaashu satiiriit :/
-- 
 Rich

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Re: [Talk-lv] tuurisma pieluugsme

2013-11-30 Per discussione Rich

On 11/30/2013 01:51 PM, Rich wrote:
 On 11/30/2013 01:47 PM, Rich wrote:
 varbuut kaads tuurisma karteetaajs var nedaudz pielabot tagus shim
 objektam ;)

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2555289514

 lai gan religion=riga_tours ir ok :D
 
 uh. tur veel ir paarvadaajumi, ziedi utml pusreklaamas. labi, bish
 veelaak laikam pats meegjinaashu satiiriit :/

kameer tiku liidz iespeejai, raitis jau bija salabojis - paldies :)
-- 
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Re: [Talk-cz] Ruian jako zdroj dat

2013-11-30 Per discussione Mirek Dlask

Ahoj,
Díky za odkaz a připomenutí ruian2osm a dovolím si pár námětů. Neodvažuju
se do kodu sahat na githubu.
- v Node je třeba  změnit int Id na Long Id totéž u setId, getId
- v OsmLoader také final Listint loadedIds na final ListLong loadedIds
(je tam několikrát)
Pak už to funguje.

Asi trošku větší zásah, asi pro někoho jiného.
isIn - je-li část obce stejná jako obec vracíme jen obec, kraj, stát to je
ok
doplnit
jinak vrátit část obce, obec, kraj, stát
chybí podpora addr:place u adres bez ulice - buď je addr:street není-li tak
vložit addr:place
nejsem si úplně jistý zda máš v párování ref:ruian.
Prezentace výsledků. Geometrie bodu mi nic neříká. Pokud se chci podívat na
jeho polohu v JOSM stačí mi id resp ref
U SRID bych dal přednost 5514 a metrům, u 4326 budu teprve zkoumat  kolik
nastavit v match-max-distance
Ukládají se někam data stažená z OSM?
Jakou má funkci přepínač --update?
Rozjezd velmi dobrý, potencionál značný jen to využít ...
---
Pro ostatní.
Pár slov na wiki dám, dejte mi čas týden, na utřídění myšlenek a
zavzpomínání, co všechno jsem ještě neuvedl. Nevím zda tam přidat nějaké
příklady z Ruian. Z OSM je nečekejte. Nechci tady nikoho uvádět do rozpaků.

Například jsem nezmínil to, že aktualizuji pouze AM jako body. Ne že by
nešli aktualizace adres na budovách, ale místy opravdu nejdou.
Nejdou na SO s více vchody a tedy více AM, kde je na SO pouze jedno AM a
ostatní scházejí . Potíž je nad takový SO s jedním AM umístit nové body.
Dochází k překryvu čísel a jejich nečitelnosti. Jednoduché řešení nemám.

Nezmínil jsem ještě zdvojení AM na rohových SO. V Ruian jsou body pro
vedlejší i hlavní ulici na sobě, což se JOSM nelíbí. I přes jeho odpor  to
tak nechávám v případech, kdy jsou obě čísla identická a liší se pouze
ulice. U AM s číslem orientačním je pak posouvám ručné k hraně SO. Navíc
ani nevím, zda u těchto SO jsou opravdu využitelné (existují?) oba vchody.
Ale co jsem namátkou kontroloval tak jsou i v adresy.xml. Jak to udělat
automaticky nevím.
-
Abychom se posunuli dál.
Hanoj by konečně mohl být ve své kritice konstruktivnější a napsat svoji
představu o názvech importních účtů pro případ více uživatelů + jeden
hlavní pro automat.

Nějaký čas vyčkám, zda se někdo ujme vývoje nějakého polo/automatu.
Teoreticky je možné velmi rychle aktualizovat neproblematická data a
průběžně opravovat problémy. I nová data se dají přidat tam, kde
prokazatelně nic není, velmi rychle. Máme řadu obcí, kde nikdy žádný import
neproběhl.
Sám bych se rád lehce upozadil a věnoval se těm problémům.

Interně si můžeme říct, že moje činnost byla opravdu více import, než
odvozování ... Tedy pokud porovnám objem dat. Že ruční práce je
zdlouhavější na věci nic nemění.
Navenek bych to ovšem opravdu prezentoval jako odvozování. Nebo jsem se
domníval, že jde o odvozování.

Rozumím tomu dobře že Ruian není mezinárodně uznán jako zdroj dat? Není ani
zde http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue

Zatím jsem připravil následující vysvětlení.

Dobrý den,
Jmenuji se Mirek Dlask V rámci OSM požívám účty Minimalis a
Minimalis_import. Rád bych vysvětlil svoji činnost, která vedla k
zablokování mého účtu Minimalis_import.
Už více než rok jsou k dispozici data z veřejných zdrojů, jejichž garantem
je Český úřad zeměměřičský a katastrální úřad. Jedná se o projekt s
příspěvkem EU. Data jsou k dispozici volně bez licence.
Bohužel data o nemovitostech byla v minulosti zanedbána a i v současné době
obsahují řadu nepřesností a chyb. Jejich použití bez ruční korekce je pro
potřeby OSM problematické. Proto se domnívám, že nejde o  čistý import, ale
o odvozování s použitím dat z Ruian jako zdroje.
Úpravy provádím přímo v databázi. K uvedené činnosti nepotřebuji žádné
speciální programové vybavení. Pouze pár řádků programu v Javě, kterým
vytvořím výstupní *.osm soubor. Ten otevřu v JOSM, data zkontroluji proti
katastrální mapě a po validaci odesílám.
Hledám způsob, jak zlegalizovat svůj postup a dosáhnout uznání Ruian jako
regulérního zdroje dat. O Ruian jako o schváleném zdroji dat je zmínka i na
českých wiki stránkách OSM. Wiki stránky popisující úskalí importu
připravuji. Celá problematika je diskutována od počátku projektu na talk.cz
.
Bohužel se do dnešního dne nenašel nikdo, kdo by celou záležitost
prezentoval na  imports@ list.
Z dat obsažených v Ruian budou v první fázi importovány adresní body,
stavební objekty a síť ulic ve městech kde chybějí. S importem jiných dat
se prozatím nepočítá.
Cíl projektu - aktualizace stávajících adresních bodů, doplnění nových
adresních bodů, přidání nových budov.
Místo - území ČR
Označení dat - source = cuzk:ruian
Doba trvání -

Re: [Talk-cz] Ruian jako zdroj dat

2013-11-30 Per discussione hanoj

 rad bych se Mirka zastal, protoze mam dojem, ze to jaky zvolil
 nazev uctu, je spise podruzna zalezitost a mam pocit, ze kritika, ktera
 se na nej ted snasi je trochu zbytecna a spis odrazujici od dalsi prace.
*** Zvolil si nepruhledny nazev importniho uctu, byl zablokovan, nikde
nic nepopsal co skutecne dela, takze je legitimni, kdyz to alespon
zpetne udela. Kritika neni urazka, ale nastroj jak delat veci lepe.

 Koneckoncu, kdyz ja rucne obmalovavam katastralni mapu, tak delam
 neco velmi podobneho a taky to delam pod svym nickem a nic zvlastniho
 se z meho nicku nevycte.
*** Taky te nikdo nebanuje a obkreslujes po jednotlivych objektech ne?

 Pocitam, ze to hlavni je, ze na vytvorene objekty dava tagy source a ref,
 ktere rikaji odkud data pochazi a jak vznikla. A to snad staci ne?
*** Staci to pokud nedelas import. Vytvoření metadat o importu je na
několik hodin, ale vytvořit je může jen on, protože je má v hlavě.

 Pokud ovsem Hanoj narazi jen na to, ze pouziva
 source:addr=ruian nebo source=ruian
 a radsi by byl, aby pouzil source=cuzk:ruian
 tak to je asi rozumny pozadavek a myslim, ze minimalis to bude schopen snadno
 opravit, pokud mu bude odblokovan ucet. ;-)
*** ja nechci na nic narazet, proste rad bych videl nekde popsane proc
to dela jinak nez dosud nebo prave tak
*** pokud se bavime jen o adresnich bodech (a ja dosud nevim zda jsou
jedinym predmetem importu), pak je na prvni pohled vhodnejsi mit
source tag=cuzk:ruian a nabytecnost is_in, ktery se uz drive
vypoustel

 Naopak si myslim, ze vzhledem k popsane slozitosti importu dat z RUIAN
 je velmi vhodne, ze pro svou konkretni metodu a vysledek prace si
 zvolil ucet, ktery primo odkazuje na jeho osobu, ale da se odlisit
 od kresleni, ktere dela jako minimalis rucne.
*** proc ne, ale vzhledem k politice importu bude pro jeden ucet
fungovat prave jeden zdroj.

 Na druhou stranu by asi bylo hodne dobre, kdyby napsal onu stranku na ceske 
 wiki,
 kam by pro zacatek uplne stacilo copypastnout sve predchozi maily o tomhle
 projektu. Aby ta informace nekde byla jasne a prehledne i pro dalsi, pokud
 by chteli na jeho praci navazat, resp. o tom projektu diskutovat na jednom 
 prehlednem miste.
*** CP doufam ne, budu veřit že lakoničnost a výstižnost převáží nad esejemi.

 Dal by me zajimalo, jestli si nemyslite, ze by bylo vhodne, pokud teda bude 
 mit Mirek
 naladu pokracovat, doplnovat k budovam i ty doplnujici informace, jako je 
 treba
 ucel objektu. Nabizi se bud rovnou pouzit (a trochu rozsirit) tak building, 
 treba
 building=garage, nebo mene konfliktni novy tag, treba building:ruian=neco.
*** informaci o garage v RUIAN imho neni.

ha
hanoj

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Re: [Talk-cz] Ruian jako zdroj dat

2013-11-30 Per discussione hanoj

 Pár slov na wiki dám, dejte mi čas týden, na utřídění myšlenek a
 zavzpomínání, co všechno jsem ještě neuvedl. Nevím zda tam přidat nějaké
*** těším se

 Například jsem nezmínil to, že aktualizuji pouze AM jako body. Ne že by
 nešli aktualizace adres na budovách, ale místy opravdu nejdou.
 Nejdou na SO s více vchody a tedy více AM, kde je na SO pouze jedno AM a
 ostatní scházejí . Potíž je nad takový SO s jedním AM umístit nové body.
 Dochází k překryvu čísel a jejich nečitelnosti. Jednoduché řešení nemám.

 Nezmínil jsem ještě zdvojení AM na rohových SO. V Ruian jsou body pro
 vedlejší i hlavní ulici na sobě, což se JOSM nelíbí. I přes jeho odpor  to
 tak nechávám v případech, kdy jsou obě čísla identická a liší se pouze
 ulice. U AM s číslem orientačním je pak posouvám ručné k hraně SO. Navíc ani
 nevím, zda u těchto SO jsou opravdu využitelné (existují?) oba vchody. Ale
 co jsem namátkou kontroloval tak jsou i v adresy.xml. Jak to udělat
 automaticky nevím.
*** supr, ještě popsat pro ty co neznají strukturu RUIAN ze AM jsou
adresni místa a SO stavebni objekty.

 Hanoj by konečně mohl být ve své kritice konstruktivnější a napsat svoji
 představu o názvech importních účtů pro případ více uživatelů + jeden hlavní
 pro automat.
*** nikde jsem nepsal, že ho máš změnit, psal jsem že jeho nazev
nevystihuje obsah. Pokud bys chtěl mít nový, tak by bylo vhodné aby
obsahoval slova ruain, import a treba minimalis, jestli bude slouzit
jen tobe.

 Nějaký čas vyčkám, zda se někdo ujme vývoje nějakého polo/automatu.
*** na godota asi čekat netřeba. Na metadata o dosavadním importu před
pokračováním určitě vyčkej.

 Interně si můžeme říct, že moje činnost byla opravdu více import, než
 odvozování ... Tedy pokud porovnám objem dat. Že ruční práce je zdlouhavější
 na věci nic nemění.
 Navenek bych to ovšem opravdu prezentoval jako odvozování. Nebo jsem se
 domníval, že jde o odvozování.
*** Každý import obsahoval dost ruční práce z různých příčin a na
různé úrovni a vždy zůstal importem. Bez importu bys neměl co
upravovat.
Do zdrojů pro odvozování patří ortofotomapy, nebo schémata silniční
nebo elektrické sítě ŘSD ČEPS. Importovat nejdou ale obsahují dost
informací na odvození atributů či a obkreslení.


 Jedná se o projekt s příspěvkem EU. Data jsou k dispozici volně bez licence.
*** licence existuje a vyplývá ze zákona, více je na wiki


ha
hanoj

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Article OpenStreetMap sur le Framablog

2013-11-30 Per discussione Philippe Verdy

Au fait si la stratégie de Google c'est l'accessibilité prolongée en
mobilité, Google investira dans les technologies permettant de réduire la
consommation (amélioration notamment des écrans, ou utilisation d'un second
écran à e-ink pour les contenus relativement statiques, qui ont
l'avantage d'être mieux lisibles et ne rien consommer de plus au soleil,
contrairement aux écrans dynamiques qui consomment beaucoup, ou
superposition d'un écran e-ink et OLED; amélioration de la consommation des
récepteurs radio et leur puce codec notamment en veille), et augmenter la
charge de la batterie; ou encore développer sur les smartphones et
tablettes les systèmes de recharge sans fil (à induction) et promouvoir les
points de recharge ailleurs que dans les rares aéroports et gares.

Pour que le smartphone puisse rester utilisable même pendant plusieurs
jours, et reste aussi utilisable batterie vide mas connecté à un chargeur
(cela ne marche pas du tout, on doit attendre au moins 20 minutes avant de
songer à rallumer l'appareil qui a ensuite bien du mal à se charger, les
chargeurs n'étant pas efficaces du tout sur les prises micro-USB où le
courant utilisable est trop limité pour supporter l'initialisation de l'OS,
de son interface, des applis et des connexions radio).

Arrêtons cette blague (le site donné n'est fait que de blagues), la carte
papier n'est pas une stratégie Google et ne verra jamais le jour en tant
que produit d'usage universel (en tout cas pas à ce prix là ! Sauf en tant
qu'objet d'art mais pas par Google, même sous forme d'origami sur un papier
ultrafin, infroissable à mémoire de forme, et indéchirable composé de
nanotubes de carbone, et là le prix indiqué est même trop bas pour que ce
soit rentable)


Le 30 novembre 2013 08:13, Ab_fab gamma@gmail.com a écrit :

 Concernant la strategie carto de Google :


 http://www.bilboquet-magazine.fr/revolution-google-lance-une-version-papier-de-google-maps/

 ;-)
 Le 30 nov. 2013 07:30, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :

 C'est vrai que les arguments évoqués par cet article d'un bloguiste
 openstrettmappeur utilise des arguments un peu limités pour convaincre. Si
 la bascule vers Google Map API v3 tombe en novembre, Google a prévenu il y
 a déjà plus de 3 ans et prolongé encore 6 mois de plus).

 Dans les faits il faudrait mieux parler de saine concurrence, le fait
 qu'on ne soit plus lié à un seul fournisseur (soit pour héberger un
 serveur, soit un service, soit la bande passante pour les tuiles, ...) et
 que donc les prix demandés par les fournisseurs peuvent être réduits autant
 que possible sur une base saine : celle des coûts réels, et qu'on garde le
 contrôle des données et de la présentation.

 Il suffit de comparer les offres de service pour OSM, elles sont peu
 chères en comparaison de ce que demande Google. Elles sont réactives aussi
 en terme de modifications et d'adaptation, on a plein d'options
 d'intégration.

 Les erreurs trouvées dans la carte sont également vite corrigées dans OSM
 (pas comme dans Google Maps où un signalement prend plusieurs mois avant de
 recevoir une réponse positive, et encore plusieurs semaines pour que la
 correction soit intégrée (Google utilise sa propre communauté pour valider
 les changements, via son appli collaborative cloud extrêmement compliquée à
 utiliser et d'une lenteur à peine croyable; et même quand cete applli cloud
 intègre et accepte une proposition, il faut accord que celle-ci soit
 validée par plusieurs, ce qui prend des semaines là encore. Avant quelle
 soit validée par le système, une Google Car sera repassée et annulera par
 ses données tout le travail collaboratif de la plateforme Google. Bref
 cette communauté Google travaille pour rien, et s'en rend compte, elle ne
 suit pas longtemp le projet (sauf quelques geeks encore passionnés mais qui
 travaillent sur des détails, jamais sur un aspect global du projet de
 Google.

 Je suis convaincu qu'un jour Google arrêtera les frais de sa solutions
 cartographique car ce sera tout bonnement plus facile (et plus rentable
 pour lui) d'utiliser le projet OSM et y contribuer directement. Il se fera
 une raison de la même façon qu'il a intégré aujourd'hui Wikipédia sur ses
 sites (et qu'il y contribue aussi).

 Le business de Google n'est pas sa carte en réalité, c'est le placement
 de sa carte dans des service en ligne en tant que vecteur de publicité et
 d'intégration de son moteur de recherche. Google pourra toujours s'il le
 veut intégrer OSM et ses propres services. Comme par magie alors ses cartes
 seront beaucoup mieux à jour et plus précises qu'actuellement. Meiux que
 ça, il trouvera pour nous plus de données libres à intégrer dans OSM (et il
 nous y aidera techniquement).

 Il supportera aussi la projet en hébergeant des serveur de tuiles très
 performants (en version bitmap ou en version vectorielle). Google a déjà
 construit de très bon alogos de traitement automatique des donénes de ses
 diverses sources (ouvertes ou payantes). Si

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Article OpenStreetMap sur le Framablog

2013-11-30 Per discussione Vincent de Château-Thierry


Bonjour,

Le 30/11/2013 08:34, Philippe Verdy a écrit :

New-York, Tokyo, et... Vaulx-en-Velin (à 250 euros la carte?)
Ca ressemble plutôt à une blague...

Le 30 novembre 2013 08:13, Ab_fab gamma@gmail.com
mailto:gamma@gmail.com a écrit :

Concernant la strategie carto de Google :


http://www.bilboquet-magazine.fr/revolution-google-lance-une-version-papier-de-google-maps/

;-)


Google revient aux fondamentaux, donc.
Une vision partagée par d'autres :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCp-JSVSNZM
;o) - ceci est un smiley

vincent

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Projets avec des enfants

2013-11-30 Per discussione Frédéric Rodrigo


Le 30/11/2013 09:15, Vincent Bergeot a écrit :

Bonjour,
je commence des animations autour d'osm avec des classes.
Cela fonctionne assez bien, seulement certains enfants ont des
possibilités d'utilisation d'internet qui leur permet de faire beaucoup
de choses sans aucune forme de controle parentale.

Par exemple http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ernestito a modifié et
supprimé des batiments existant. Il se trouve qu'il nous l'a dit, tant
mieux :)

Cela me pose plusieurs questions :

  * peux tu annuler les modifications, m'expliquer comment on le
fait, faire un temps de travail sur la gestion des utilisateurs


Il est possible d'annuler des changesets entier ou de restaurer des 
objets supprimés :

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Revert


  * est ce que je lance un fil de discussions sur la liste abul, ou
-fr pour essayer de recueillir les avis (je te pose la question
pour éviter d'être trop redondant si les discussions se sont
déjà tenues)


Sur le liste talk-fr, je la mets en copie.


  * est-il possible d'imaginer un système d'utilisateurs parents :
un compte structure avec des comptes dépendants, cela permet
d'avoir plusieurs comptes pour faire des modifications avec les
enfants, puis de regrouper toutes les modifs sous le même
compte pour les valider à postériori plus facilement :)


Il n'y a pas de niveau d'utilisateurs dans OSM. Une possibilité pourrait 
être de mettre un proxy ou les élevés sauveraient leurs modifications 
pour ensuite être revue. C'est assez la même chose que ce dont on avait 
parler pour contribuer hors ligne. Ça nécessite une installation 
technique non triviales.


Une autre solution pourrait être de travailler avec JOSM et de sauver 
les contributions dans un fichier local sans les envoyer. Mais je ne 
suis pas sûr que ça soit adapté à ton cas.



Frédéric.


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[OSM-talk-fr] Crédits espacenordiquejurassien.com

2013-11-30 Per discussione yvecai

Hmm, une chose est sure c'est que les pistes de ski ne proviennent pas 
d'OSM: leur base est plus complète sur la région.


Quant àla différence prestataire / client, rien n'empêche d'envoyer un 
mail concernant l'attribution à l'ensemble des acteurs, si nécessaire 
bien sûr.

Yves opensnowmap.org

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Crédits espacenordiquejurassien.com

2013-11-30 Per discussione Pierre Mauduit

Bonjour,

Christian Quest a écrit :
 Qu'est ce qui te permet d'être sûr que des données OSM sont utilisées ?
 C'est pour leur fond de carte ?
 
 Le crédit disponible sur [1]http://195.42.148.42/activites_nordiques_gp/
 images/Credits.pdf est effectivement bizarre...
 
 Ce qui est sûr c'est que le fond de plan visible sur le site n'est pas issu de
 la BD Topo de l'IGN, pour une simple raison... les toponymes y sont en
 MAJUSCULE et sans accent sur les noms de rues... or sur le fond de plan 
 visible
 sur le site, on a et des minuscules et des accents... comme dans OSM ;)

Le fond bing doit etre le bing-like des styles mapserver-osm. Sinon, comme
mentionné précédemment dans le thread, le flux wms servant à la carto ici est
bien issu de services maintenus par GeoBretagne depuis un petit moment déjà.

L'attribution manque au niveau de l'appli flash qui est utilisée sur leur site
amha.

-- 
Pierre

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Article OpenStreetMap sur le Framablog

2013-11-30 Per discussione DH


Le 30/11/2013 11:01, Vincent de Château-Thierry a écrit :

Bonjour,

Google revient aux fondamentaux, donc.
Une vision partagée par d'autres :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCp-JSVSNZM
;o) - ceci est un smiley

vincent


La communauté a toujours un temps d'avance !
Sacrée Françoise toujours dans les bons coups.
Excellent...

Merci pour cette pépite.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Crédits espacenordiquejurassien.com

2013-11-30 Per discussione Claude


Le 30/11/2013 12:16, yvecai a écrit :
Hmm, une chose est sure c'est que les pistes de ski ne proviennent pas 
d'OSM: leur base est plus complète sur la région.


Quant àla différence prestataire / client, rien n'empêche d'envoyer un 
mail concernant l'attribution à l'ensemble des acteurs, si nécessaire 
bien sûr.

Yves opensnowmap.org

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Bonsoir

Pour moi c'est du OSM y a pas photo


http://www.openstreetmap.org/search?mlat=47.14346mlon=5.857zoom=12#map=16/47.1401/5.6084layers=N

j'ai targué le Canal du Rhône au Rhin Branche Sud  à Audelange (C'est 
l'appellation Voie Navigable de France) on le le nom tel-quel sur leur 
carte.

De plus les Tiverbanck corresponde exactement


cordialement
Claude



--
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Crédits espacenordiquejurassien.com

2013-11-30 Per discussione Philippe Verdy

Je confirme aussi sur des tas de détails ajoutés uniquement dans OSM et da
s aucune autre base,  de la géométrie plus précise,  à des petites voies de
jonction,  des aires de service privées,  etc...  Qu'on ne trouve même pas
dans le cadastre qui est approximatif ou pas à jour,  ni sur les photos
aériennes,  et même des fautes dans certains noms,  ou encore des
abbreviations hasardeuses dans OSM et des mauvaises traductions. Il est
clair de toute façon que cela vient du rendu ou des exports OSM de
geobretagne,  qui lui respecte la licence.
Le 30 nov. 2013 17:17, Claude claude.mar...@gmail.com a écrit :

 Le 30/11/2013 12:16, yvecai a écrit :

 Hmm, une chose est sure c'est que les pistes de ski ne proviennent pas
 d'OSM: leur base est plus complète sur la région.

 Quant àla différence prestataire / client, rien n'empêche d'envoyer un
 mail concernant l'attribution à l'ensemble des acteurs, si nécessaire bien
 sûr.
 Yves opensnowmap.org

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 Bonsoir

 Pour moi c'est du OSM y a pas photo


 http://www.openstreetmap.org/search?mlat=47.14346mlon=5.
 857zoom=12#map=16/47.1401/5.6084layers=N

 j'ai targué le Canal du Rhône au Rhin Branche Sud  à Audelange (C'est
 l'appellation Voie Navigable de France) on le le nom tel-quel sur leur
 carte.
 De plus les Tiverbanck corresponde exactement


 cordialement
 Claude



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Re: [OSM-ja] AEDマップ見つけました

2013-11-30 Per discussione ribbon

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 07:08:28PM +0900, ribbon wrote:
 http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/index.php?id=1029
 
 にありますね。ただ、ドイツ語表示。

これ、今日見たらなくなっていました。残念。

ただ、フランス語版のOSMでは表示出来るのだそうです。
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/automated_external_defibrillator
から
http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=17lat=44.12069lon=4.83901layers=B00

でも、日本の部分では表示されないですね。残念。

スタイルの修正が出来るcloudmadeも見てみましたが、こちらはPOIの
追加は出来ないのですね。残念。

ribbon

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Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways.

2013-11-30 Per discussione Peter Davies

James,

I have a question about this, though it all sounds good to me in principle.
 Is your proposal just about the relations?  What would we do on the refs
of the ways?  For example, on I-394 in Minneapolis and western suburbs, a
mapper has left off US 12 because it is at least partly unsigned. So we
have way ref I 394 instead of I 394;US 12.  For my applications I'd prefer
it said I 394;US 12, because we need to track the overlaps (which we and
our 10 state DOT customers call double banding).  But if you also want to
suppress shields from maps in such areas, could we enter the way ref as I
394;US 12|unsigned  ?

Peter




On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 2:43 PM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.comwrote:

 We also have to come up with a way to designate hidden segments of a route
 so we don't have to have two separate relations for highways that have
 segments that are hidden.

 Some of the examples I'm thinking of are like US-52 in MN when it's on
 I-94 and US-19 Trunk here in Pittsburgh, PA while it's on I-279/I-376.
 Both states have signs for theses routes telling people to follow said
 Interstates for those routes and then no more reference to them till when
 they leave the Interstates.  I'm thinking that we could possibly tag the
 roles for them in the relations this way: role=north|unsigned.  This would
 also help for the renders that use the relations to add the shields.  They
 would be able to use the |unsigned part to know not to add the shields
 along that way.

 As for the highways that are completely hidden, the unsigned_ref tag in
 the relation will work perfectly for them still (US-85 in NM as an example).

 Anybody else agree with me that this might work better than the two
 relations for the highways that have segments that are hidden?

 -James

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Re: [Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

2013-11-30 Per discussione Peter Davies

Martijn

I'm good with having a separate discussion of milepoints/*pointes
kilometriques, *sure.  I'll probably wait a week or two until a consensus
emerges on posted directionality, as you suggest.

Peter


On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:

 Peter,
 I think we should separate the discussion related to linear
 referencing / mileposts from the cardinal direction discussion - these
 are two different things really, to my mind. The notion of cardinal
 direction is a relatively straightforward one, and that is already
 cause for (cultural) confusion. Introducing the GIS concept of linear
 referencing into this discussion I think adds to the confusion. We
 should perhaps discuss that separately - I for one don't see the
 immediate relation between the two, but I am happy to be proven wrong.

 On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 3:08 AM, Peter Davies peter.dav...@crc-corp.com
 wrote:
  Martijn
 
  I, too, await your clarification for KristenK, as I'm a little confused
 too.
 
  We need to keep in mind that positive and negative GIS Linear Reference
  directions (which are handy as global solutions applying everywhere in
 the
  US at least) beginning at milepoint 0.0, usually on the southern or
 western
  state boundary for rectangular states, are not the same as posted DOT
 miles
  that sit on green and white pressed steel signs on the shoulder of all
  Interstates and many state/US routes. DOT miles often jump and can
  occasionally change directions, as route designators are altered
 (something
  that happens quite often) and bypasses are built.  The cost of reporting
 the
  whole route is usually prohibitive.
 
  So GIS LRS positive and (imperfect) posted DOT miles are handy things to
  keep in mind as long as we realize that there are always a few
 exceptions to
  break our defaults.  Similarly, posted cardinal directions are fairly
  rules-bound but certainly not 100%. This is why I think a good OSM
 solution
  needs to be explicit rather than implicitly inferred from highway
 geometry.
 
  Examples of state GIS definitive records are built by ESRI Roads and
  highways (used in Indiana) and by Agile Assets (used in Idaho).  Check
 out
  http://www.esri.com/software/arcgis/extensions/roads-and-highways
 
  Peter
 
 
  On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Kristen Kam krist...@telenav.com
 wrote:
 
  Martijn,
 
  I want to make sure I understand what you're trying to convey to the
  group. Are you saying that If a way has a member role value of east
  then east will mean forward and then west (it's opposite) would mean
  backward?
 
  Example logic:
 
  ** If member role = east, node direction is eastbound would mean
  forward and backward would mean 'west'
  ** If member role = west, node direction is westbound would mean
  forward and backward would mean 'east'
  ** If member role = north, node direction is northbound would mean
  forward and backward would mean 'south'
  ** If member role = south, node direction is southbound would mean
  forward and backward would mean 'north'
 
  If the logic I stated above successfully captured with your
  suggestion, then I would like to expand on it. Why not just make the
  cardinal direction value-forward/backward value relationship a bit
  more simpler? I would like to cite Peter Davies' discussion on the
  Highway Directions in the US wiki page. He stated that milepoints
  increase as highways that trend northward or eastward--say positive
  direction. So if one is traveling south or west on a highway, the
  milepoints are decreasing--say negative direction.
 
  With this in mind, couldn't we just say that north/east = forward
  (forward movement is positive!) and west/south=backward (backward
  movement is negative!)? If we're digitizing our edges, the suggestion
  would be to set the node direction of two-way, aka single-carriageway
  roads, into a positive direction and the member roles values to north
  or east. Basically what you did for
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2308411, but setting the
  single-carriageway/two-way roads to 'east' instead of 'west'.
 
  Thoughts Martijn? Others??
 
  Best,
 
  Kristen
  ---
 
  OSM Profile → http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/KristenK
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Martijn van Exel [mailto:m...@rtijn.org]
  Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:47 PM
  To: Ian Dees
  Cc: Florian Lohoff; OpenStreetMap-Josm MailConf; OSM US Talk
  Subject: Re: [Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for
  north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward
 
  Yes, sorry for not being clearer. As Ian indicates, this is the
  *signposted cardinal direction* of a numbered road route, which does
  not change with the actual compass direction of the road. The guiding
  principle for the United States is that the odd numbered Interstates
  are north/south, and the even numbered Interstates are east/west. This
  is independent from the local compass direction. So for example, I-80
  is

Re: [Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward

2013-11-30 Per discussione Peter Davies

Other examples of weird route designators include Arizona's Loop 101 and
Loop 202 freeways in Maricopa County (Greater Phoenix). They are state
highways, 100% freeways (probably), one around metro PHX and the other
around the East Valley (Tempe/Mesa etc.).   Like James I think that the
route designator and the directionality are two completely different
things.  So I would imagine Loop 101 in the way ref and directionality in
the relation role.  Sadly although I live there half the time I can't
recall how the loops are directionally posted right now, but I can take a
look later next week.

Peter


On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 8:44 PM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.comwrote:

  However, with the split Interstates (I-35W/I-35E in both TX and MN 
 I-69E/I-69C/I-69W in TX)  US Highways (and a few state highways), the
 letters are part of the route number.  So, they wouldn't have any effect on
 the role part for relations.  When given routing info, they'd act just
 like their non-lettered siblings.

 Turn left onto Northbound I-35E on-ramp or something similar.

 Also, I don't know why some people put the letter as a modifier in some
 of the relations[1].  Maybe we could also remove that line (since the ref
 line has the proper number still) when we convert everything to the
 cardinal directions.

 -James

 [1] - http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/416519

  Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 22:22:47 -0500
  From: saiarcot...@gmail.com
  To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
  Subject: Re: [Talk-us] [josm-dev] Relation editor support for
 north/south and east/west similar to forward/backward
 
  The same applies for I-35 in the DFW area; I-35E runs through Dallas
  while I-35W runs through Fort Worth.
 
  Saikrishna Arcot
 
  On Wed 27 Nov 2013 03:56:51 PM EST, Richard Welty wrote:
   On 11/27/13 2:46 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote:
   You also have compass-point letters used to distinguish between
   branches of the same route. For example, US 31 runs north/south. A
   portion of it branches off as US 31W, which runs roughly parallel,
   some miles westward of US 31, and eventually merges back into it.
   in the Hudson Valley of NY, we have US 9/US 9W, which behave
   similarly; 9 is on the east side of the river south of Albany,
   and 9W is on the west side.
  
   (on top of that, NYS has a thicket of state routes which are
   spurs and loops off of 9/9W, e.g. NY 9A, 9B, ... 9H, 9J...
  
   mapping in NY is fun. whee!)
  
   richard
  
  
  
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Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways.

2013/11/30 Peter Davies peter.dav...@crc-corp.com

 So we have way ref I 394 instead of I 394;US 12.  For my applications I'd
 prefer it said I 394;US 12, because we need to track the overlaps (which we
 and our 10 state DOT customers call double banding).  But if you also want
 to suppress shields from maps in such areas, could we enter the way ref as
 I 394;US 12|unsigned  ?



Usually you would have (at least) 2 relations, one for each ref. The way
ref (if set at all) will often have multiple values, semicolon separated.
Not sure if you have a different agreement in the US, but it doesn't matter
if the ref is signed or not, as long as you can find it in some kind of
publicly available documentation (with compatible licensing).

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?

2013/11/29 Joseph R. Justice jayare...@gmail.com

 I looked at the following items mentioned in the set of responses: The
 Garmin eTrex series (most specifically the 30; if one is going to get it,
 might as well get the best one available); the Columbus V-900 (and V-990);
 the AMOD AGL3080; the iBlue 747proS someone sent an Amazon link to.

 I skipped the other Garmin units mentioned (GPSMAP 62 et al) due to the
 lack of GLONASS support;



+1, maybe they are going to release a modernized model of that series in
the near future (would be due if they haven't decided to drop this series
completely)? They also do have very small (but great) displays, sooner or
later they will update this?




 The AMOD and iBlue seem too basic; I could only use them to upload data to
 my PC since they don't seem to have Bluetooth to communicate with Android
 devices.



Not sure for your iBlue model, but the 747A+ (and maybe others) does have
bluetooth.



   No display or anything so I can't really use them as a standalone device
 except purely to record data.



+1




 The Columbus units seem to be somewhat interesting.  The 900 one at least
 has Bluetooth (the manufacturer's pages for the 990 don't mention it, at
 least that I can find).  However, I'm a little put off by what some people
 wrote about their relative lack of accuracy; I figure if I'm getting a GPS
 for the purpose of using it for OSM, accuracy is a significant
 consideration.



+1, I've also heard similar rumours.




 The major lack to the eTrex 30 is that it doesn't appear to have
 Bluetooth, so I don't think I can use it directly with my Android devices.



+1, but also keep in mind that your Android devices usually will have a GPS
(?) (sufficient to display a map more or less where you are, but not the
best for logging tracks) and that you will have much longer operating times
with one set of (standard) batteries on the (dedicated) GPS, so





 The other units non- eTrex units Garmin currently has with GLONASS support
 (Monterra, Oregon 600, 600t, 650, 650t) are all substantially more
 expensive than any of the eTrex units, so I think they're out of my budget.



AFAIK those are all touch-devices, which I wouldn't suggest for a GPS unit,
dedicated buttons are better (they do have a slightly better screen
resolution but do suffer (as far as I have heard) from less readable
screens in outdoor conditions.


Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways.

2013-11-30 Per discussione Richard Welty

On 11/30/13 4:54 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

 2013/11/30 Peter Davies peter.dav...@crc-corp.com
 mailto:peter.dav...@crc-corp.com

 So we have way ref I 394 instead of I 394;US 12.  For my
 applications I'd prefer it said I 394;US 12, because we need to
 track the overlaps (which we and our 10 state DOT customers call
 double banding).  But if you also want to suppress shields from
 maps in such areas, could we enter the way ref as I 394;US
 12|unsigned  ?



 Usually you would have (at least) 2 relations, one for each ref. The
 way ref (if set at all) will often have multiple values, semicolon
 separated. Not sure if you have a different agreement in the US, but
 it doesn't matter if the ref is signed or not, as long as you can find
 it in some kind of publicly available documentation (with compatible
 licensing).
in the US, we've been trying to use unsigned_ref= for situations where
the road
has a designation but no signage. County routes in Westchester and
Onondaga Counties
in NY are examples of this. additionally, many of the highways in the
NYS parkway
system have public designations like Taconic State Parkway but they
also have
unsigned reference numbers in the state inventory, so ref=TSP combined with
unsigned_ref=inventory number is the way we've been going.

richard



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Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways.

2013-11-30 Per discussione James Mast

Peter, it would just be for the relations.  It would stay the current 
status-quo for the ways using at all times the ref  unsigned_ref tags (see 
I-394 example below).

In your example with I-394 and US-12, if you look at the way's tags [1], you 
can see that US 12 is still mentioned, but under the tag of unsigned_ref.  
That's how we have to so it as too many other data users wouldn't understand 
anything special in the normal ref tag on ways saying something is 
unsigned.  That's why the east|unsigned stuff would only work in the 
relations.

Here's an example of what I did for US-19 Truck here in Pittsburgh which has 
it's multiplex with I-279  I-376 hidden (except for the small segment South of 
the Fort Pitt Tunnels because of how the ramps are). First, here's the relation 
for the signed poartion of the route [2], and here's the relation for the 
entire route [3].  As you can see, on the entire route relation, I have the 
unsigned_ref tag for the route number, while in the signed relation, it has 
the normal ref tag with the route number.  I had to do it this way so that 
all the data users who use the relations for adding shields didn't erroneously 
add the Truck US-19 shields to I-279/I-376.  Sure, you could say this is 
tagging for the render, but it also is mapping the ground truth since there 
are no US-19 Truck shields along those two Interstates. This sign [4] on 
Southbound I-279 is the only mention of US-19 Truck along the Interstates till 
it leaves I-376 just after the Fort Pitt Tunnels. (NOTE: for those who don't 
know, US-19 Truck used to be mutliplexed with just I-279 till I-279 was 
shortened to the Point in Downtown Pittsburgh and I-376 was extended from that 
point over the Parkway West segment of I-279 in 2009.)  (Also another little 
history lesson here, but Pittsburgh's US-19 Truck is the only officially 
approved Truck route with the AASHTO and shows up in the logs.)

So, if we all agree on how to handle short segments of unsigned highways in 
relations, I could then re-combine the route into just one relation and tag the 
unsigned ways as role=north|unsigned and role=south|unsigned along the 
I-279/I-376 multiplexes.

HOWEVER, on routes that are completely unsigned (like hidden I-124 in TN [5]), 
we would just keep use the unsigned_ref tag in the relations as we are 
currently doing since it doesn't have a signed segment.  But I wouldn't be 
totally opposed to doing it like the hidden segment of US-19 Truck mentioned 
above inside of the relation.

I hope this fully explains what I'm suggesting to do Peter and everybody else. 
;)

-James



[1] - http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/43147401
[2] - http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/571349
[3] - http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3078417
[4] - http://goo.gl/maps/4fJYC
[5] - http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1861175

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 01:01:29 -0800
From: peter.dav...@crc-corp.com
To: rickmastfa...@hotmail.com
CC: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US  State  
highways.

James,
I have a question about this, though it all sounds good to me in principle.  Is 
your proposal just about the relations?  What would we do on the refs of the 
ways?  For example, on I-394 in Minneapolis and western suburbs, a mapper has 
left off US 12 because it is at least partly unsigned. So we have way ref I 394 
instead of I 394;US 12.  For my applications I'd prefer it said I 394;US 12, 
because we need to track the overlaps (which we and our 10 state DOT customers 
call double banding).  But if you also want to suppress shields from maps in 
such areas, could we enter the way ref as I 394;US 12|unsigned  ?

Peter
  

On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 2:43 PM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote:




We also have to come up with a way to designate hidden segments of a route so 
we don't have to have two separate relations for highways that have segments 
that are hidden.

Some of the examples I'm thinking of are like US-52 in MN when it's on I-94 and 
US-19 Trunk here in Pittsburgh, PA while it's on I-279/I-376.  Both states have 
signs for theses routes telling people to follow said Interstates for those 
routes and then no more reference to them till when they leave the Interstates. 
 I'm thinking that we could possibly tag the roles for them in the relations 
this way: role=north|unsigned.  This would also help for the renders that use 
the relations to add the shields.  They would be able to use the |unsigned 
part to know not to add the shields along that way.


As for the highways that are completely hidden, the unsigned_ref tag in the 
relation will work perfectly for them still (US-85 in NM as an example).

Anybody else agree with me that this might work better than the two relations 
for the highways that have segments that are hidden?


-James
  

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Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways.

On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 4:39 AM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.comwrote:

 If you want to see an example, download US-30's WV relation [2] into JOSM
 and change the cardinal roles all back to forward.  You can then see the
 value of those splits in relation analysis inside of JOSM that the roles
 forward/backward have in making sure the relation has no gaps.


Though, as previously mentioned, and I'm fairly sure the wiki documents it
as well, cardinals as a role should only be used if the child you're
setting the role on is a relation whose children consists of ways in one
direction only.
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Re: [Talk-us] Separate relations for each direction of US State highways.

2013-11-30 Per discussione Richard Welty

On 11/30/13 4:57 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:

 On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 12:57 PM, James Mast
 rickmastfa...@hotmail.com mailto:rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Peter, it would just be for the relations.  It would stay the
 current status-quo for the ways using at all times the ref 
 unsigned_ref tags (see I-394 example below).


 I can't wait until we can finally kill this dinosaur.  Refs, as
 they're presently tagged on ways, almost always apply to the route
 instead of the way.  And not to mention they're just a pain in the
 butt to maintain properly where multiplexes exist, something that
 works cleanly in relations.

we're kind of stuck with ref on the ways until the data
and data consumers come up to speed. there are a lot
of route relations still to be built in the US.

richard




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Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote:

 i think a couple more notes are in order as part of a consumer's guide.
 the following contains notes on Garmin  Android/OsmAnd options

 Garmin Pros/Cons

 1) mkgmap produces useful maps from OSM data


Though at least with the currently autogenerated maps, things like maxspeed
and address lookup doesn't make it over, which is ultimately what killed it
for me when being able to look up addresses you know are mapped on a
regular basis...


 2) in the automotive units, save location is an ok,
 not great, but ok interface for recording short notes
 on the fly


An annoying limitation being that two notes can't be worded identically.


 3) the note entry on the eTrex is a bit clumsy
 4) eTrex screens are a bit small and monochromatic,
 not good units for driving usage
 5) the eTrex has an array of mounts; i can mount an
 eTrex on my bicycle handlebars pretty easily


At this point, for a Garmin, I can't see a real compelling reason to not go
with a Colorado, Oregon or VIRB Elite.


 6) many of the low end Nuvis in the past have had
 a very cheesy power switch. one of the dead garmins
 on the window sill behind me fell to that.
 7) most of not all Garmins still use mini usb instead
 of micro usb. mini usb is going away for a reason,
 it is a very poorly engineered design which fails
 after a depressingly low number of disconnect/
 reconnect cycles. i've had two Nuvis die due to
 mini usb connector failure. in order to get tracks
 off a Garmin, you pretty much have to go through
 a couple of disconnect/reconnect cycles (e.g.
 disconnect from the car lighter plug, plug into the
 computer, take the tracks, disconnect and put
 it back in the car.)


Killed a nüvi 2555LMT that way...still have it in my glovebox as an
emergency backup, but between that and not being able to do things like
record notes easily in real time and get warnings that I'm speeding or
about to cross a rumble strip or cattle grid (they're often not well marked
in Oklahoma and quite startling when you hit 'em unexpectedly) or encounter
a speed bump (again, same problem, particularly on privately owned roads)
or toll archways/plazas/barriers.  Osmand does a lot of the notification
stuff, but you lose the ability to prefer/avoid carpool lanes (as compared
to the garmin), and while Osmand will warn of an all-way stop (intersection
node tagged highway=stop), it doesn't throw an icon to let you know why it
just announced attention.


 OsmAnd Pros/Cons
 7) mechanism for entering notes clumsy by comparison
 to automotive Garmin units


It requires too many button pushes, but a little practice makes no-look
menu  use current location  Open OSM Note possible.  Would be nice if
this was simplified into a single button press, with the option to use a
keyer like is used in OSMTracker (though unlike OSMTracker, make it so you
can edit the keyer layout without having to hack around in an XML file
manually).


 8) routing is a work in progress. for long trips, adding
 waypoints liberally seems to be a good idea. the
 current version of routing seems to not evaluate
 some potential routes that it really should, even
 over short distances. probably a bug, which leads
 to 9:


Despite warnings on long-distance trips, I've noticed this is a far more
noticeable issue where data is more complete.  For example, I've gone from
Pine Hill near Sapulpa, Oklahoma to City Park in Lake City, Colorado and
Osmand threw a warning suggesting to add waypoints, but nonetheless, did
pick an efficient route despite the relative lack of map data, and changing
routes midway through to avoid a forest fire blocking the highway (it
detoured us through Gunnison on the same route I picked on the paper map as
a contingency without interaction once I made the turn).

Meanwhile, in Tulsa, where many four-way stops and most traffic signals,
turn restrictions and speed limits mapped, it sometimes loses it's marbles.
 Even on fastest route, for example, going from Mingo RV Park to the FedEx
Office by the University of Tulsa, it will pick I 244 Westbound, exit at
Yale southbound, turn right on 9th, left at the T intersection, right at
Historic 66, and then arrive.  If you ignore it, it'll insist you exit
every time and head for 9th, until you get to Delaware Avenue (the best
exit).  Even then, it wants to take the ramp right from southbound Delaware
Avenue to westbound 3rd Bicycle Street and then south on Lewis to approach
FedEx from the west...


 10) decent automotive mounts for 7 tablets are out
 there. i'm going to try one with the Nexus 7 for my
 christmas vacation trip from NY state to NC.


I'd be curious how the N7 handles Osmand in horizontal mode and what mount
you use, and how well it sticks in cold weather (my Dynex mount loses it's
grip unexpectedly in cold weather, which is quite a surprise when I hit the

Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?

2013-11-30 Per discussione Richard Welty

On 11/30/13 6:45 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:

 10) decent automotive mounts for 7 tablets are out
 there. i'm going to try one with the Nexus 7 for my
 christmas vacation trip from NY state to NC.


 I'd be curious how the N7 handles Osmand in horizontal mode and what
 mount you use, and how well it sticks in cold weather (my Dynex mount
 loses it's grip unexpectedly in cold weather, which is quite a
 surprise when I hit the start of a toll zone (with a rumble strip) and
 the the vibration from crossing the strip suddenly causes my N5 fly off.

the N7 does horizontal mode pretty well; i'm pretty pleased with
the N7 overall. now that i have an old (2 1/2 year old) HTC Android
set up, i'm switching the N7 over to OSMTracker.

i'm currently using a Satechi universal dashboard mount for
the N7 and am happy with it so far, atlhough we've only just
now started into seriously cold weather in these parts.

i'm using an iOttie mount for the oldish HTC. it's a pretty
nice mount.

richard



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Re: [Talk-us] Currently available good GPS for use with OSM mapping in the USA?