date:20091215

[Texascavers] clothing related

2009-12-15 Thread David

I know many of you like to wear North Face clothing, or camp in
North Face tents.

Here is a funny story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_north_face_lawsuit;_ylt=AiEZ6QvcVTOpQx2AiQaTbvXtiBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJ1Z3FoZjNlBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMjE1L3VzX29kZF9ub3J0aF9mYWNlX2xhd3N1aXQEcG9zAzMEc2VjA3luX2FydGljbGVfc3VtbWFyeV9saXN0BHNsawN0aGVub3J0aGZhY2U-

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RE: [Texascavers] clothing related

2009-12-15 Thread Mark . Alman

That's hilarious (and a petty lawsuit)!



Mark



-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:36 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] clothing related

I know many of you like to wear North Face clothing, or camp in
North Face tents.

Here is a funny story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_north_face_lawsui
t;_ylt=AiEZ6QvcVTOpQx2AiQaTbvXtiBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJ1Z3FoZjNlBGFzc2V0A2FwLzI
wMDkxMjE1L3VzX29kZF9ub3J0aF9mYWNlX2xhd3N1aXQEcG9zAzMEc2VjA3luX2FydGljbGV
fc3VtbWFyeV9saXN0BHNsawN0aGVub3J0aGZhY2U-

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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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[Texascavers] bulk mail and TX Caver mailing

2009-12-15 Thread Rod Goke

Back about 20 years ago the Texas Caver was mailed via bulk mail to minimize mailing costs. At that time, I was the person responsible for maintaining the TSA membership/subscription database on my computer (with a Z-80 processor and CP/M operating system, for any of you other old farts who can remember that far back) and for printing the mailing labels for each mailing of the Texas Caver. To facilitate bulk mailing, I wrote a dBASE program to print the mailing labels sorted and grouped according to the USPS requirements for bulk mailing. This was NOT simply a matter of sorting by zip code. I don't recall the exact rules for bulk mailing at that time, but they were approximately as follows:1. The total number of items mailed had to be at least 200 to qualify for bulk mail.2. Items had to be grouped and bundled according to 5-digit zip code, provided that there were at least some specified minimum number of items (probably about 10, but don't remember exactly) in each bundle, where all items within a bundle had to have the same 5-digit zip code.3. Items with zip codes that didn't qualify for the 5-digit bundles then had to be grouped and bundled in a similar manner according to the first 3 zip code digits.4. Items that didn't qualify for the 3-digit bundles then had to be grouped and bundled still further. I believe it was by state, and then, finally, a mixed state bundle. Also, I think we had a few subscriptions that were mailed out of the Country and had to be separated from the bulk mail bundles.I believe my program also counted and reported the number of items in each bulk mail bundle, in addition to the total number of bulk mail labels. I think it also printed the TSA membership expiration date on each label and included some special indication for those that were about to expire.Sticking labels and bundling Cavers for bulk mailing took a lot of work, but we didn't expect the editor do everything by himself. I printed the labels. Then we would often get several volunteers together to stick labels and arrange the bundles. These volunteers didn't have to understand the USPS rules for sorting bulk mail into bundles, since the label printing program took care of that. When several volunteers got together to share the work, it seemed more like an enjoyable social event than a burdensome chore. Similarly, we also devised ways to split the work of updating the database (for new memberships, membership renewals, address changes, etc.), and I wrote another dBASE program to facilitate this. Turning work into an opportunity for social interaction was, and still is, the most effective way I know to prevent volunteers from feeling burned out.At that time, the number of actual TSA members was often a little less than the 200 required for bulk mailing, but the database included enough free or exchange subscriptions mailed to cave owners, institutions, etc. that we were able to mail the required minimum. To achieve this, the database probably included more complimentary and exchange subscriptions than it would have otherwise, but the lower cost of bulk mail meant that we could actually save money by mailing a few extra copies. In fact, we might have even had a policy of mailing one copy after a person's membership expired and printing "EXPIRED" on the label to remind them to renew. I don't remember for sure about this, but I think I recall adding a feature to the label printing program to do this.TSA probably could save money by using bulk mail if they mail a sufficient quantity, but that quantity might be impractical to achieve if many people choose not to receive paper copies. If TSA does want to use bulk mail, I'd be glad to talk with whoever is currently responsible for the database and the mailing label printing to see if there is anything I can do to help.If TSA does not find it practical to use bulk mail, then we might consider other ways to reduce mailing cost without eliminating the quality printed copies that so many of us still value. For example, many of us in TSA regularly attend local grotto meetings and might be satisfied to pick up our printed copies at local grotto meetings instead of having them mailed to our homes. With this option, TSA could notify members via email whenever a new edition becomes available so that we would know to pick it up at the next grotto meeting and could access it electronically in the meantime. This method of distribution would require one volunteer in each grotto to receive a box of Cavers and to distribute them to the appropriate people. (I'd be willing to do this for the UT Grotto.) It might greatly reduce the number of Cavers that have to be mailed individually and have the added benefit of encouraging local grotto attendance. As a TSA member, I'd be happy to select this option and wouldn't even mind giving TSA my email address for this purpose if I could trust them not to list it on a website.Rod-Original Message-From: Chris

RE: [Texascavers] TSA, Caver, and Caving

2009-12-15 Thread Mark . Alman

Thanks, Chris, for the kind words.
 
I live to serve!
 
 
 
Mark
 
 



From: Chris Vreeland [mailto:cvreel...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Mon 12/14/2009 8:14 PM
To: texascavers Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA, Caver, and Caving


I just got my gorgeous hard copy of the Caver in the mail today, and have to 
say that as an old fart, I really like getting publications in the mail at 
seemingly random intervals, and sitting down in a chair to read them. Then, I 
enjoy putting them on my bookshelf.  

One thing I do not enjoy is driving to Office Max to stock up on ink cartridges.


If it takes another $5.00 a year to keep them coming, I think I can skip a pack 
of cigarettes in order to make that happen.

BTW, Thanks Mark, for an excellent issue! As a former editor, I thought i knew 
all about the unsung heroics of editing, but your tale of woe tops them all. 
Please keep up the good work!

[Texascavers] mala mujer

2009-12-15 Thread Nancy Weaver

This may be of some interest to those cavers who used to visit the El 
Abra - its an exchange about mala mujer with the amazing naturalist 
Jim Conrad who lives parttime in Mexico ( his very worthwhile 
newsletter available free! digitally!! at 
naturalist_newslet...@backyardnature.net - thank you Mixon for 
turning me onto this)



COW-ITCH
Here and there in the forest where it's particularly
protected from the sun and wind -- where it's moist
and shadowy -- you find shrubs or small trees with
thick, brittle branches and broad, veiny, shallowly
sawtooth-margined leaves, such as is shown at

wonder how this relates to the shrub/tree we called mala mujer in the 
arid impenetrable scrub forest of northern mexico - the long narrow 
El Abra range on the east coast south of Mante?  We were up there to 
chop our way to the various big pits that had been sighted by small 
plane - and distressingly found - when we would come back the next 
season, that our path had been taken over by mala mujer, an intensely 
reactive nettle plant which advantageously took the tiny amount of 
sunlight we opened up. 


No, this Cow Itch is in the Nettle Family while Mala Mujer, which stings
just like it, is in the Euphorb or Poinsettia Family. I've seen another
name for it,though, Mala Hombre, so you're not the first to see a
similarity in the stings.


and for those of you who enjoy caving reminiscences:

The pits were well worth the effort. One that involved a 3 day chop 
opened up on a 100foot diameter 60 foot deep wonderland where dozens 
of pairs of military macaws resided.  We simply sat (we had no rope 
with us that day) and observed them flying about from above for a 
timeless spell.  The El Abra has no water and no resources desired by 
the locals who live below and is almost completely left alone by 
humans.  It is so impenetrable that to even step a few feet off the 
trail we chopped and flagged was to invite being lost for days as one 
caver famously discovered.  In his 3 days of wandering increasingly 
deliriously he drank water from bromeliads and encountered a jaguar 
in a long eye locked moment in a twilight opening.  Afew years 
earlier,  the cavers stumbled across some very lost locals who had 
come up to hunt and returned them to their village, where a major 
fiesta was held in our honor and to celebrate their resurrection.  In 
all the years we spent exploring there, we met only one local who 
offered to *guide* us to a pit he had been to, years back.  He 
arrived while we were having coffee and with one of our volunteers 
took off at breakneck speed thru the jungle (there must be a word for 
arid jungle, but I cant think of it) periodically flagging, while the 
rest of us crashed along behind enlarging the path.  He led us 
straight to the pit in about 4 hours- well, as straight as one can go 
when the ground is extremely solutioned with ravines, leg breaking 
holes in the pinnacley karst covered in slippery entangling vines 
groundcover shrubs and trees.  A major feat of dead reckoning and 
memory and perhaps some other sense most of us no longer have access 
to.

texascavers Digest 15 Dec 2009 14:56:44 -0000 Issue 917

2009-12-15 Thread texascavers-digest-help

 TSA money is a noble goal but providing the membership with  
tangible services is really the purpose of the whole organization.  The  
membership is quite diverse and their needs should be accommodated as much  as 
possible, not made to feel defensive because they aren't the same as some  
faction within the group.  I'm disappointed that in the present discussion,  
there are some that feel that their view has got to be the only reasonable  
way.  Why not work toward a reasonable compromise that works for all the  
membership ?
 
The current discussion regarding whether or not a hardcopy version of  the 
TxCvr should be published has thus far produced nothing to provide better  
services for the membership and caused mostly dissension in an organization 
that  needs more members and participation.  I'm a little surprised that the  
Chairman thought this was an interesting way to stir up the restive  
masses.  Let sleeping dogs lie.
 
Jerry.
 
In a message dated 12/14/2009 8:31:16 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
gi...@att.net writes:

Don't  anyone forget that you can download your digital TEXAS CAVER file 
onto your  memory stick, take it to Kinkos or Office Depot and have it color 
laser  printed HARD COPY just like the editor does and save the TSA all that 
postage  and printing cost--and save the editor a lot of mental and physical 
hassle.  It's the best of both worlds.  
--Ediger





---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
Actually Jerry, I'm the one who brought up (yet again) that we should
push for the Digital cheaper version of TSA and less paper waste.  I
don't think it was Mark's intention with his story.  I just took his
story and ran with it.

Gil's idea has merit, and it helps out all of the caving community,
not just TSA members.

Charles

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:02 AM,  jerryat...@aol.com wrote:
 Let's see now.  I pay for a Texas Caver with my dues to the TSA.  Then I
 receive my electronic copy off the TSA website.  Then I get in my car and
 drive to the FedEx or wherever to pay for a printed version.  All to save
 the TSA a little money and the editor some grief.  Now multiply this
 scenario 4 times a year for about half the TSA membership.  I don't believe
 that's a better world for anyone.

 I agree with Mixon that a two-tiered system has probably come of age for the
 TSA.  But it also means that dues should be proportionally reduced for those
 that choose to receive an electronic copy of the TxCvr.  Unless, of
 course, the reason for reducing the costs of the TxCvr is to create a large
 cash surplus for the TSA.

 Saving the TSA money is a noble goal but providing the membership with
 tangible services is really the purpose of the whole organization.  The
 membership is quite diverse and their needs should be accommodated as much
 as possible, not made to feel defensive because they aren't the same as some
 faction within the group.  I'm disappointed that in the present discussion,
 there are some that feel that their view has got to be the only reasonable
 way.  Why not work toward a reasonable compromise that works for all the
 membership ?

 The current discussion regarding whether or not a hardcopy version of the
 TxCvr should be published has thus far produced nothing to provide better
 services for the membership and caused mostly dissension in an organization
 that needs more members and participation.  I'm a little surprised that the
 Chairman thought this was an interesting way to stir up the restive masses.
 Let sleeping dogs lie.

 Jerry.

 In a message dated 12/14/2009 8:31:16 A.M. Central Standard Time,
 gi...@att.net writes:

 Don't anyone forget that you can download your digital TEXAS CAVER file onto
 your memory stick, take it to Kinkos or Office Depot and have it color laser
 printed HARD COPY just like the editor does and save the TSA all that
 postage and printing cost--and save the editor a lot of mental and physical
 hassle. It's the best of both worlds.
 --Ediger


---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
I know many of you like to wear North Face clothing, or camp in
North Face tents.

Here is a funny story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_north_face_lawsuit;_ylt=AiEZ6QvcVTOpQx2AiQaTbvXtiBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJ1Z3FoZjNlBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMjE1L3VzX29kZF9ub3J0aF9mYWNlX2xhd3N1aXQEcG9zAzMEc2VjA3luX2FydGljbGVfc3VtbWFyeV9saXN0BHNsawN0aGVub3J0aGZhY2U-
---End Message---
---BeginMessage---
That's hilarious (and a petty lawsuit)!



Mark



-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:36 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] clothing related

I know many of you like to wear North Face clothing, or camp in
North Face tents.

Here is a funny story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_north_face_lawsui
t;_ylt=AiEZ6QvcVTOpQx2AiQaTbvXtiBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJ1Z3FoZjNlBGFzc2V0A2FwLzI
wMDkxMjE1L3VzX29kZF9ub3J0aF9mYWNlX2xhd3N1aXQEcG9zAzMEc2VjA3luX2FydGljbGV
fc3VtbWFyeV9saXN0BHNsawN0aGVub

Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member

2009-12-15 Thread ellie :)

I am happy to post the comment if you prefer not to.

On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
 Good night



 On Dec 15, 2009, at 12:38 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ttyl. Sleep time

 On 12/15/09, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com wrote:
 Im sure we can come to an easy agreement at the meeting. The sentence
 I sent you to forward is very broad and we can add details to the
 actuall motion as the meeting day approaches. Just dont add or
 subtract from what I recommended for you to post. You could add...
 Silence is consent. That would be a nice touch

 On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
 have you had this discussion with anyone else?

 On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:20 AM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 Yes. Ive been sick for 4 days- ive been thinking a lot. Wish I had
 been in bed the whole time, no luck though

 On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
 Really think we should put that over Cavetex?

 On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:14 AM, ellie :)
 ellie.tho...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 So, copy and paste this following message and forward it to
 whatever
 related posts:
 I motion to table this discussion and refer it to the Free
 Texas Caver
 committee to be discussed at the January 10th TSA meeting  where
 registered members present can vote for a majority.
 Include meeting location details if desired.

 On 12/15/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
 Sure, do you think we should bring up the 2 tier membership to
 go
 hand
 in hand with this?

 I dont' know what the costs should be, but people who want a
 hard
 cover should have to pay for that privilege :)



 On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com
 
 wrote:
 Yes, many geek friends w/ technological skills.
 Will you be the Free Texas Caver committee chair? We can
 table the
 Texas Caver conversation now and you can bring it up for
 debate at
 the
 Jan meeting. At the Jan meeting, you will obtain the floor
 and make
 a
 motion to the TSA chair. He will then accept/reject and then
 the
 registered members present will vote and the majority wins.
 Sounds
 fun
 and simple, right? You in?

 On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
 I'm somewhat familiar with RRO, read through it years ago.

 Isn't that why you have geek friends?

 On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 PM, ellie :) ellie.tho...@gmail.com

 
 wrote:
 I majored in Business. I will forward you a script for the
 January
 business meeting- Roberts Rule of Order, its simple. Im
 embarrassed
 that I thought black meant red. I suck w/ computers.

 On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote:
 Just thoughts rambling through my head, never sat down and
 wrote
 down
 the
 ideas.

 No, went to AM for a few years for comp sci and switched
 to an
 aeronautical school to get my pilot's license.  Am back in
 computers
 tho, LOL

 :)

 On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, ellie :)
 ellie.tho...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 Free thinker! Did you go to a liberal arts school? I will
 lay
 out
 a
 simple, organized way to bring this issue up at the next
 meeting.
 I
 have thought it through but will not propose it myself. You
 probably
 have material prepared as well

 On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org
 wrote:
 I'm not condoning of getting rid of the membership fees,
 and
 while
 I
 think a few may quit paying if they can get the TC for
 free, I
 think
 that it will bring in more members in the long run.

 The information should be free.

 Charles

 On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:07 PM, ellie :)
 ellie.tho...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 I didnt know you felt this way and thought as a TSA
 member,
 you
 would
 support having a small income for the organization. I
 will
 offer
 to
 give Gill my prize of a 2010 membership but in no way
 think
 that
 there
 should be no membership fees. I am glad he has someone to
 market
 for
 him though(you)-i wont

 On 12/14/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org
 wrote:
 Gil, I seem to remember you making that statement
 within the
 last
 year
 or so, about the $100 donation.  I also seem to remark
 about
 matching
 that, and I'll stand by it.  I'll donate $100 as well.

 Charles

 On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Gill Edigar gi...@att.net
 
 wrote:
 On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:35 PM, John P.
 Brooks jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 I want to save the TSA from financial ruinI will
 go
 digital
 if
 Ediger
 renews his membership. Anyone else willing to make
 that
 commitment?

 Ediger will renew his lapsed TSA membership and
 donate $100
 to
 the
 TSA
 within seconds of The TEXAS CAVER being made a free
 publication
 to
 any
 caver
 who wants to sign up for a free subscription.
 Subscribing
 non-TSA
 members
 should be solicited to join TSA but membership should
 not be
 a
 requirement
 for receiving all the good caving information aimed at
 bettering
 the
 cause
 of caving in Texas. As a caver and TSA member I,
 personally,
 would
 want
 every caver

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