[Therion] Adding photos and profiles to a map
Keeping photos in a separate file is, I think, a good idea, especially if there are a lot of them. As Nigel suggests, using point:photo and a label would connect them. The photo page could include captions and other descriptive text. If the photo pages and the map are both PDF, then it is trivial to join them into a single file for distribution. You could also have a page (or several!) of profiles appended to the main map. === Bill Gee On 5/13/24 05:24, Nigel via Therion wrote: Thanks Bill. Marco has clarified that "point:photo" in Topodroid is not complete. So, essentially, I shouldn't be using it. Event if it were complete, Therion is not programmed to handle it. As you suggest, in Therion it is simply placing a symbol, in this case a symbol that looks like a camera. After what you say about placing photos being a pain, I'm now leaning toward putting the camera symbol on the map with a reference number associated with it and providing the images in separate lookup table somewhere. That probably serves my purpose just as well. Cheers Nigel ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Therion point:photo usage
As Nigel is experiencing, adding photos to a map is a real pain. It is right up there with adding profiles, mainly because the same basic method is used. What I found is that photos and profiles have to be the VERY last things you put on a map. Otherwise - If the map changes at all, especially the size, then the placement of the photos and profiles is changed too. You cannot ever count on them remaining in the same place relative to the rest of the map - and relative to the legend. I think the current "point:photo" object is only to indicate that a photo was taken. As far as I can tell, it has no function for actually placing a photo. It would be nice to have more details in the Therion Book. On most of my maps I treat profiles like cross-sections. In a sense they are cross-sections viewed orthogonally to regular cross-sections. I also never use photos. It is just too much work to try and figure out how to place them. ======= Bill Gee On 5/11/24 08:15, Nigel via Therion wrote: Hi Martin, The map-image command doesn't work for me for some reason. I'll persevere with it to get it going eventually. What I'd like to do is automatically process the photo point type directly to insert the image at the point on the map without having to manually insert the photo image. As part of the solution I'm also hoping to stop Therion erroring when it sees the photo point type that Topodroid has inserted into the file. Cheers Nigel ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] New package needed - Therion 6.2.0 on Fedora 39
I jumped on this quick! :-) And ran into a problem. This happens when running cmake. The solution was to install catch2-devel using DNF. Note that there is also a package called "catch22-devel" which I did not install. After installing catch2-devel, the compile and install proceeded with no problems. === -- Checking for module 'proj' -- Found proj, version 9.2.1 CMake Error at cmake/Catch2.cmake:17 (find_package): By not providing "FindCatch2.cmake" in CMAKE_MODULE_PATH this project has asked CMake to find a package configuration file provided by "Catch2", but CMake did not find one. Could not find a package configuration file provided by "Catch2" with any of the following names: Catch2Config.cmake catch2-config.cmake Add the installation prefix of "Catch2" to CMAKE_PREFIX_PATH or set "Catch2_DIR" to a directory containing one of the above files. If "Catch2" provides a separate development package or SDK, be sure it has been installed. Call Stack (most recent call first): cmake/Dependencies.cmake:14 (include) CMakeLists.txt:18 (include) -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred! bgee@main2:~/Installs/therion-6.2.0/build$ == -- === Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Turning LIDAR point clouds into cave maps
A mountain of a question! That is for sure. I have been talking by email with a friend who claims to have done dozens of cave maps using the Apple LiDAR system. So far he has not gone into detail on how it was done. I asked for some samples of the maps he made. No Therion for him - he uses Xara and Compass. Update - While writing this, he sent me some sample files and a bit more detail. His description: "My process is create the "LIDARonly" version. Then layer on the cartography...then create the standard cave format...strip off the LIDAR (image without Lidar in the file name)." Looking at the sample files, it looks like he extracts some images from the point cloud. One of them is an overhead view and others are cross sections and profiles. He then uses these JPG images as the drawing background to produce a traditional cave map. The LiDAR scan essentially replaces the in-cave sketching. I suspect there is some custom software to extract the images from the point cloud. Another of my caving friends was doing photogrammetry over ten years ago. He used a regular digital camera and processed the photos through https://www.agisoft.com/ PhotoScan. It was amazing, and totally useless for cave survey except perhaps as a way to document formations. Yet another of my caving friends does survey in a slightly different way. In the cave he sets survey stations and records centerline data, just like everyone else does. But then he takes his GoPro and shoots a video of everything he just did. Later - out of the cave - he uses the centerline data and the GoPro video to make a traditional sketch. That is where Dennis stops. He does not go on to turn his sketch into a map. He hands it off to cartographers to take care of that. The stuff at 3DCaveSurveys is way cool - but it is not a cave map despite claims to the contrary. I found another web site which has a 3D visualization of a cave made with the Apple lidar system. https://www.tetongravity.com/story/gear-tech/digitalisation-of-caves-proceeds-using-lidar-on-new-iphones I downloaded the Torhola GLB file and was able to view it in MeshLab. Way cool stuff! He calls it a "model, not a map, and I agree with that nomenclature. I remember some years ago hearing about some mapping projects where the survey stations were marked with small balls in a specific color. The processing software recognized that color and provided a way to connect those points to known x,y,z locations - a centerline. It was fantastically expensive in both money and computer resources. In a way, we do sort of the same thing with Therion. The centerline data is processed to produce a set of x,y,z coordinates. The survey stations are flagged in that data set. Then when the sketch is drawn out, we insert points of type "survey station" which are also flagged. The sketch can be considered as a sort of two dimensional point cloud. Therion knows how to match up the survey station points in the sketch with the survey stations in the x,y,z coordinate set. From there it can morph everything around. So far the 3D presentations I have seen of caves would be useful auxiliary material for a cave map, but they are no substitute for traditional maps. === Bill Gee On 11/29/23 08:09, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion wrote: Hi Bill, A few years ago Apple released a very high-end smartphone which has a LIDAR feature (iPhone 12 Pro). There are a few more models now which have it. I have heard of some people using this to create cave maps. There is much I do not understand. Has anyone in the group taken the point cloud from an Apple LIDAR scan and turned it into a Therion cave map? If so, I am very interested in the details of the process. OK, that's a mountain of a question. But yes they have been turned into maps, though I don't know about Therion. Firstly, iPhone can do LiDAR and photogrammetry at the same time, and you can put those together as a mesh with a tonne of post processing (it can even do colours because of the photogrammetry!). It can do some of this with its own software, but afaik, people prefer to use other software for the LiDAR processing. This can be used to create pretty accurate 3D views of caves. The loop closures look amazing, but it's hard to know whether the post processing is swallowing the errors. There is some work going on at the British Cave Surveying Group to get it working. Jono was pioneering this. https://3dcavesurveys.com https://www.youtube.com/@valaheritage-jonathanleste4205 At the moment, it has no centreline (unless he added that since I last looked, but it's not a trivial task), so that currently makes it quite incompatible with Therion. It is also worth noting that the iPhone has a 10 metre range. With passages larger than that, it just invents a ceiling or wall, even though there isn't one,
[Therion] Turning LIDAR point clouds into cave maps
Hello everyone - This is probably more of a general practices question than something specific to Therion. Among the group there is likely to be some experience with this. I hope at minimum someone can guide me to a place for further learning. A few years ago Apple released a very high-end smartphone which has a LIDAR feature (iPhone 12 Pro). There are a few more models now which have it. I have heard of some people using this to create cave maps. There is much I do not understand. Has anyone in the group taken the point cloud from an Apple LIDAR scan and turned it into a Therion cave map? If so, I am very interested in the details of the process. The biggest issue I see is this: How does the iPhone know where it is? There is no GPS in a cave. GPS is not accurate enough even if it did work. Inertial navigation also has big problems dealing with a cave environment. There are many other issues, but I think that is the big one. Thanks! -- === Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] A puzzle in Loch
Hi Bruce - I am glad to hear someone else has seen this kind of problem. It is really not much more than annoying since no one but me sees the .lox files. I have CaveView on a web server, so I suppose that might count as publishing the file. I am using Therion 6.1.8 and Survex 1.4.5 running on Fedora 38. I compiled Therion from source. Survex is the package the Jim Begley puts in his COPR repository. The Stark Caverns survey project has been going since December 2018. It has been run through quite a few versions of both applications. Every compile job builds the .lox file from scratch, so there should not be any cruft from old versions. And now I find something REALLY interesting! Mentioning CaveView in the first paragraph reminded me that it is a full LOX viewer with no dependency on Loch. Just for grins - I copied the latest Stark Caverns LOX file over to that server and opened it up. No spike! The anomaly is not there in CaveView. Take a look ... https://campercaver.net/CaveView/my-index.html and use the gear icon to choose the Stark Caverns file. I think something odd is going on in Loch. What other applications can open a .lox file? I gave it a quick try in MeshLab, but it does not recognize .lox as a valid file type. === Bill Gee On 8/16/23 15:04, Bruce Mutton wrote: One thing that strikes me is that the spike is not horizontal. It angles upward by about 20 degrees. Hi Bill If it helps (unlikely), I have had a project where the Loch model has (had) just such a spike, one hundred or so metres long, angling about 20 deg upwards. For more than 10 years the model had this spike, and from time to time I tried to troubleshoot it without luck. I have had other similar cases as well. I looked up some outputs compiled January this year - it seems this spike is no longer present. So there must have been a change in the algorithm in recent years to resolve this. There has been no survey or drawing activity in that part of the cave or model since about 2008-2010, but I concede that edits more than 100 m away (from the spike) in the model could possibly have had some effect. I notice that other Loch rendering artifacts seem to have been resolved also. Are you using a recent version of Therion? I'm using 6.1.8, but unsure what it would have been in January. Bruce ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] A puzzle in Loch
Wow, thanks Tarquin! And Ollie, too. I tried a few things, but the
spike still exists in the .lox file.
I changed the connecting shots from 3 to BU1 and BU2 from splay to
duplicate. After recompiling, the spike is still there.
Next I change the shot from BU1 to BU2 so that it has no LRUD data.
Recompile, and the spike is still there. Hmmm I think I need to
change most of the splay shots to duplicate, but that seems to not be
the reason for this anomaly.
I double-verified the LRUD data for stations BU3, BU4 and BU5. The
passage makes a sharp turn at BU4, and a bad left measurement would go
about the same direction as the spike. The LRUD data for those stations
is all correct.
One thing that strikes me is that the spike is not horizontal. It
angles upward by about 20 degrees. If it were the result of bad LRUD
interpretation, I would expect it to be horizontal.
I included the data line in my extract. It is indeed the same line as
you deduced by looking at the data. Therion does produce warnings about
"forwards and backwards bearing readings do not match". There are about
20 of these in the therion.log file. I have checked every one against
the original notes. It really is off. Most are under ten degrees. The
worst is 17 degrees off.
Most of this cave was surveyed with DistoX2 devices. The compass and
inclination readings go to two decimal places (0.01 degree). I do not
believe for a New York minute that the DistoX2 is really that accurate.
I suspect it is no better than a Suunto. The readings in the book are
rounded to the nearest tenth, and I count on Therion averaging the two
shots to get a somewhat better consensus.
In this cave, especially around the tour trail, compass readings are
difficult because there is so much metal. Hand rails, electric lighting
fixtures, rebar in the concrete, support pillars and framing for the
overlook platform ... It is a magnetic mess! We did the best we could,
but there is just a lot of noise in the data.
Some time ago I asked about reverse tape readings. That is a fairly new
feature in Therion. For this cave we did not record any reverse
distance data. The distances are in Imperial measurements to the
nearest 0.1 foot. The DistoX2 displays to the nearest 0.01 foot and we
round that to 0.1 before writing it down.
I found a photo of the area we are looking at.
https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/P1100940-Small.jpg
This shows the stairs leading up to the overlook. Station 3 is just out
of sight on the left of the photo. BU1 and BU2 are out of the photo at
upper right. The BU side passage is reached by getting onto the rock
ledge on the right, then coming toward the camera. The passage goes off
to the right of this photo. There is an electric light fixture just
about dead center in the photo. If you levitate about 8 feet up from
that fixture and look right, that is the passage entrance.
=======
Bill Gee
On 8/16/23 02:18, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion wrote:
Hmmm. Maybe I am not using the splay flag correctly? Is there
another flag that might be more appropriate?
flags duplicate = a leg that must not count towards the length. It can
count towards the vertical range, if it is the highest or lowest point
in the cave. Use this when you have had to survey twice (or more) down
the same passage. Also use it if you are going from a station in a
passage whose length was already included with the legs going down the
passage itself, and the new legs are used to reach the start of a side
passage, where the main passage is really wide (such as a station on the
left wall of a 50m wide passage, and you need to get to a side passage
on the right wall). This is particularly useful when you have a side
passage you did not have a useful fixed station for, and the nearest
fixed station is a long way down the passage, so you will need to
resurvey from that fixed station, back down the passage you already
surveyed, to reach the side passage. As Olly said, this is the one you want.
#survey from fixed station to AB side passage
flags duplicate
megacairn AB1 12.34 27.5 1.5
AB1 AB2 8.97 42.93 -21.5 #AB2 is start of side passage
flags not duplicate
flags splay = a shot from a station towards a wall, ceiling, floor or
other solid object, such as a stalagmite. Therion uses these to build
the walls in the .lox file. Normally, you use anonymous splays like this
("-" instead of a station name):
AB1 - 1.234 12.5 -17.5
However, sometimes *rarely* you might want to name a splay, such as a
splay that hits something important like a named formation. Imagine you
have a stalagmite called "Medusa", you might do this to tell Therion "I
know this looks like a station, but it's a named splay":
flags splay
AB1 medusa 1.234 12.5 -17.5
flags not splay
flags surface = a leg or splay that is on the surface, not in the cave.
This will not be used for length, depth, o
Re: [Therion] A puzzle in Loch
Hmmm. Maybe I am not using the splay flag correctly? Is there another flag that might be more appropriate? The reason those stations are flagged as splay is because they do not contribute to the length of the cave. They are just connecting a side passage into the rest of the survey. Marking the shots as splay means they get left out of the total length calculation. That part of the cave is a big challenge to survey. The main feature there is a stairwell with steel hand rails on either side. The rails really mess with the compass measurements. We tried every which way but could not get a good match between forward and backward compass. I just have to trust that averaging the shots will get somewhere reasonably close to correct. It also is a place where a lower level stream passage (the E series), a mid-level side passage (the BU series) and the main passage (plain numbers going up the stairs) all come together. The survey trips in this part of the cave happened over three years. We did not know the BU passage existed until someone was just fooling around climbing over a rail and along a rock shelf full of electric lights. From the stairs it looks like a shallow alcove. Even the tour guides who go past there multiple times every day had no idea. Had we known, we would have left a good tie-in station. As it is - we had to make due. An extract from the centerline data file looks like this: == data normal from to tape compass clino backcompass backclino left right up down # Side passage behind the overlook flags splay # The next line is the data we actually shot. Getting it to fit right on the map # required juggling the numbers a bit, and that is the second line. # 3 BU1 4.8 345.55.3180.5 -6.3 - - - - 3 BU1 4.0 315.55.3135.5-6.3 - - - - BU1BU211.6 53.1 84.4228.4 -84.9 16.8 2.2 1.1 11.6 flags not splay BU2BU318.6 152.80.5332.1 -0.7 4.6 0 0.5 5.1 BU3BU420.5 137.1 -1.1318.11.4 10.7 6.8 1.0 2.2 BU4BU518.5 68.62.5248.7 -2.3 4.9 1.9 1.0 0.8 BU5BU611.3 141.7 10.0323.1 -11.1 0.5 10.6 7.2 2.3 BU6BU7 7.8 207.0 18.6 27.9 -19.6 12.9 4.4 18.2 2.8 BU7BU8 6.9 130.3 -48.0312.4 47.8 3.8 3.7 5.9 0.5 BU8BU9 8.6 184.0 10.4 3.2 -9.8 6.4 2.6 3.4 3.0 === Bill Gee On 8/15/23 17:10, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion wrote: On 15/08/2023 22:52, Bill Gee wrote: Looking at the .lox file for Stark Caverns, I see a spike that does not make any sense. I suspect it might be a blunder in the LRUD data, perhaps a misplaced decimal point - but I have searched all over the data and cannot find anything that looks out of line. Besides, the spike is not horizontal, which you would expect from an LRUD blunder. It goes up at about a 20 degree angle. Take a look at the file at https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/StarkCaverns.lox Possibly unrelated to the problem, but ... Several legs are created with a splay, when it looks like they should have been a leg or a duplicate. BU1 to BU2 (where the problem is) G13 to Z1 B1 to B1a AB1 and AB2 A5 to R1 12 and 14 These can cause issues, because splays are legs are different things, and you could confuse Therion when it tries to generate walls. It is supposed to use actual splays for that, but not duplicates. Because you are calling them splays, Therion tries to use them to work out where the walls are, and generates a wall where the LRUD data conflicts with what you have called a splay. So it tries to join the wall it drew at a station, with the wall you told it is somewhere else in the LRUD data. I can understand if it does so with a crazy spike, though it is usually better at handling inconsistent data. I would need to see the source data to debug further, since I cannot see what any of the LRUD data looks like. Cheers Tarquin ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] A puzzle in Loch
Looking at the .lox file for Stark Caverns, I see a spike that does not make any sense. I suspect it might be a blunder in the LRUD data, perhaps a misplaced decimal point - but I have searched all over the data and cannot find anything that looks out of line. Besides, the spike is not horizontal, which you would expect from an LRUD blunder. It goes up at about a 20 degree angle. Take a look at the file at https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/StarkCaverns.lox Turn on display of walls, survey stations and station labels. The spike is fairly obvious. It starts at around station BU1, station 3, or station E1. Does anyone have any ideas about why this shows up? Is there a way to find the survey stations that it connects to? For what it is worth, it does not appear in Aven using a .3d file. It also does not appear on the PDF plan map. It appears to do no harm ... but it is really bugging me! Thanks! -- === Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join
Hmmm I think I get it. The xvi file consists of three images. When I set it as the background for a drawing window, there are four entries in the background list. They are the file name and each of the images it contains. The file name holds the centerline and each image holds one drawing. To draw on top, uncheck visibility for all but one of the images. Draw on that, then make it invisible and turn on another image. Add to the drawing, then repeat for the third background. Is that the basic process? Screen shot attached. === Bill Gee On 8/4/23 14:53, Bruce Mutton wrote: > The problem is the sketches are not transparent enough to use. The only part of the sketch that has any visible drawing on it is for the last scrap mentioned in the map statement of the .th file. The other drawings are not visible. Bill Select the image, untick visibility ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join
A couple of very interesting ideas here. I tried them out this morning on a small test cave. I will have to think about this for a bit to see how it might be useful. My small test cave has a total of about 80 feet of passage. There are three scraps which come from background sketch on two different sheets of paper. The same sheets also include profile and cross-section sketches. The first thing I did was Tarquin's method of creating a single .th2 file. Creating the file was easy - just adding another export line to the thconfig file. It produced a valid .th2 file which has all objects from all scraps. The joins were already performed. There was no background image, so adding anything to this would be a matter of eyeballing it. I don't think there is any way to add a background image that would make sense. The second thing I did was review Marco Corvi's documentation at the URL Tarquin provided. The new thing I learned is that backgrounds can be assigned to scraps as well as the drawing area. With my test cave I added background to the three scraps, added the appropriate export line to thconfig and then compiled. In the map editor I then started a new .th2 file. I imported the .xvi as the drawing area background. It came in. I can see where all three sketches were apparently overlaid. There is a nice centerline for the entire cave. The problem is the sketches are not transparent enough to use. The only part of the sketch that has any visible drawing on it is for the last scrap mentioned in the map statement of the .th file. The other drawings are not visible. The result file can be seen at https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/test.xvi ======= Bill Gee On 8/3/23 15:13, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion wrote: Something along the lines of map ProblemchamberMP GrandcanyonSP FlatroomSP endmap select Problemchamber export map -proj plan -o Problemchamber.th2 Instead of exporting to pdf, this will then export this to a .th2 file, where I guess it will appear with all the lines you have joined, instead of you having to join them with line joins/scrap joins or amending line end positions to force therion to automatically recognise them. This will allow you to work on the whole chamber as one in a single .th2 file. Fun fact, you can even ask therion to take the sketches, and output those, pre-warped and pre-scaled, aligned to each other. It's fairly advanced stuff though, and I only used it once while boggling slightly. Sketch Morphing, in the Therion book. Or here: http://marcocorvi.altervista.org/caving/tbe/m_04/m_045.htm That's harder than the original problem, but very cool if you wanted to use it, since it can solve this exact problem (multiple surveys of different arts of the same chamber at different scales). ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] How to define steps
A mucdh smaller problem than my last one ... Stark Caverns has several places with stairways. I am using the line type "steps" to draw them in. Three issues: 1) One of the stairways is wider than long, and only three steps. When Therion draws that, it places it sideways. Is there a way to tell Therion how to orient the steps? Here is the definition from the th2 file: line steps -close on -attr c 3 1558.0 -1203.5 1593.75 -1206.75 1581.75 -1158.75 1553.75 -1167.0 1558.0 -1203.5 endline This can be seen on the map at https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/StarkCavernsNoCenter-1.pdf Find the Onyx Circle. There is an arrow calling out a ceiling waterfall. Move west from the arrowhead about 5 scale feet to see this set of steps. There is another stairway very close by which has more steps. That one is oriented correctly. Related question - Is there a way to indicate which end of the stairway is down? 2) I originally defined this stairway using a curved line on one side. When Therion compiled the map it gave an error about "illegal steps definition". The only way I found to fix that was to draw it again using only straight lines. I know Therion can have curved lines in a stairway because there are some others in this map where I did that. Is this a case where Therion requires straight lines for the top and bottom, but can have curved lines for the sides? If so, then changing the orientation as in problem one should fix this. 3) For future versions of Therion - The Therion Book does not have any documentation about the "-attr c #" option for the steps line type. This needs to be added. Also a note about curved vs. straight lines, and how to change orientation. Thanks! -- === Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join
Update: Thank you everyone for suggestions. I think I have conquered (more or less) this problem by using some invisible walls. Results at https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/StarkCavernsNoCenter-1.pdf For comparison the old map is still there: https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/StarkCavernsNoCenter.pdf There is some overlap which shows in the background coloring. The overlaps are a bit darker than the rest. I am not too concerned about that. It is not a rocket ship - Does not have to be perfect. There are no new join statements. I just added invisible walls to the scraps I did have scraps wider than deep, which several people pointed out is a problem. I checked all the wall orientations, as Bruce suggested. They were all correct. My habit is to draw walls counter-clockwise which should result in correct orientation. As Tarquin pointed out - We should have surveyed the whole room before we surveyed the room. Hindsight is 20/20! Next time I know better. That does fly in the face of a common American caving practice which is to survey as you go. Scooping is frowned on. Sometimes, though, you really need to scoop the passage before taking survey shots. Of course I found a new problem! That will be another thread. === Bill Gee On 8/2/23 15:05, Bruce Mutton wrote: Bill As Tarquin points out, looks to me like scraps with openings wider than the scrap is long. The solution is invisible walls along the interior joins. Another thing to check is that all the walls have the correct orientation - all the left-side yellow ticks point to the interior of the passage (if not for pdf outputs, it still helps for models). And that wall -outline is set correctly to out, in or none. Bruce -Original Message- From: Therion On Behalf Of Bill Gee Sent: Thursday, 3 August 2023 03:28 To: Therion Mail List Subject: [Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join Hello everyone - I am having a problem getting Therion to understand how to join several scraps to make a large room. The working map is at https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/StarkCavernsNoCenter.pdf Take a look at the east part of the map in an area called Grand Canyon. This is really one large room, though we did not realize that when we started sketching several years ago. Now I have at least three different pieces of sketch to try and fit together. As you can see, there is a large triangle in the center which Therion thinks is not cave. There are also some part which are outside the cave, but are considered by Therion to be inside. All of the joins in here are using line-to-line. I named the lines, then created "join" statements specifying the two lines and which points on those lines to join. Therion is happy with that, and the wall that it draws is a fair depiction of the area. The problem is that much of the interior is getting lost. I have not tried to use plain joins of the scraps - joins which do not specify the lines. I suspect that would not change much. I have already drawn some of this area three times. It is extraordinarily complicated due to multiple levels, especially along the east side. We thought for a long time that the east side was separate passages, but it is really just a complicated pile of big breakdown blocks. I really REALLY do not want to go back and make one huge sketch of the entire room. That would take several days. What can I do to convince Therion where the cave really is? Can I put in some invisible walls (subtype hidden)? Thanks! -- ======= Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join
Thanks Tarquin. I suspected some sort of game with invisible walls would be required. I will see if I can get something useful to happen. There are lots of features that will cross those walls, so I will be making extensive use of "-clip off". I already join lines by points: join I1-1-I1-12_1:end I10bcd_2:0 join I1-I15_3:0 I1-I2_1:end join I1-8_2:0 I1-I15_2:end join I1-I15_3:end I1-1-I1-12_1:0 join I10wall1:0 I1-I15_2:0 join I10wall2:0 I1-I15_4:end join I10bcd_1:end I1-I15_5:0 A thought occurred as I was writing this. There is one survey station about in the middle of the white triangle which is present on all of the sketches. I wonder if I can draw invisible walls to that station? Might that help everything fit together? Should be fairly easy to try. I have considered trying to get all the sketches mangled together in a single JPG file to use as the drawing background. The problem with that is some of the sketch is done at 20 feet to the inch and some at 10 feet to the inch. Resizing everything to match would take some doing. I am sure GIMP can do it, if only I knew how to use it. Hindsight is, of course, 20/20. If I knew then what I know now, I would have sketched the whole room as one big scrap. It would have taken several trips, but it could all fit on one sheet of paper. ======= Bill Gee On 8/2/23 10:44, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion wrote: Hi Bill, Hello everyone - I am having a problem getting Therion to understand how to join several scraps to make a large room. The best advice; never begin or end a survey at a junction! Always survey through the junction in one surveying trip, so that one survey "owns" the entire junction itself, and other surveying trips own the branches off it. Draw a chamber, and starts of the passages (at the same level) leading out of it, as a single scrap. Now that you have not done that, you face a common problem. Thankfully, it can be easily solved, but you will need some creative "join" commands. 1. Draw invisible walls from the opening of one passage, leading into the middle of the chamber. That is a subtype of normal walls. Do the same with If you manage to do it well enough, the lines all match up well enough to colour the whole chamber. And potentially, a standard "join" command on the scraps can make it link them all nicely. 2. OK, reality; your chamber is going to be awkward. Joins will not be so easy to join because there are not stations perfectly on the joins on a wall, and you will probably not be able to use a standard scrap join. You will need to use line joins. Every line that needs a join, needs an ID attribute. in survey from "trunk" passage: trunkeast (visible east wall of the passage) trunkwest (visible wast wall of the passage) chamberdivide (invisible wall) in survey from "side" passage: sidenorth sidesouth chamberdividenorth etc. then you can join all the line points to make them connect perfectly: join trunkeast@trunk:0 chamberdivide@trunk:end sidenorth@side:end chamberdividenorth@side:0 -smooth off join chamberdivide@trunk:0 chamberdividenorth@side:end -smooth off etc. you will need one join statement for every line point that needs to connect to another one. This way you can fill the chamber with enough walls to fill the space with colour. Does that all make sense? Tarquin ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Big room multiple scraps - How to join
Hello everyone - I am having a problem getting Therion to understand how to join several scraps to make a large room. The working map is at https://campercaver.net/MiscFiles/StarkCavernsNoCenter.pdf Take a look at the east part of the map in an area called Grand Canyon. This is really one large room, though we did not realize that when we started sketching several years ago. Now I have at least three different pieces of sketch to try and fit together. As you can see, there is a large triangle in the center which Therion thinks is not cave. There are also some part which are outside the cave, but are considered by Therion to be inside. All of the joins in here are using line-to-line. I named the lines, then created "join" statements specifying the two lines and which points on those lines to join. Therion is happy with that, and the wall that it draws is a fair depiction of the area. The problem is that much of the interior is getting lost. I have not tried to use plain joins of the scraps - joins which do not specify the lines. I suspect that would not change much. I have already drawn some of this area three times. It is extraordinarily complicated due to multiple levels, especially along the east side. We thought for a long time that the east side was separate passages, but it is really just a complicated pile of big breakdown blocks. I really REALLY do not want to go back and make one huge sketch of the entire room. That would take several days. What can I do to convince Therion where the cave really is? Can I put in some invisible walls (subtype hidden)? Thanks! -- ======= Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Creating GeoTIFF files
Thanks Xavier and Andrew! I do not know enough about GIS systems to understand why my friend wanted a GeoTIFF file. I set up Therion to create ESRI output, and he seems happy with that. He has imported those files into ArcGIS and says they are useful. He is taking surface topography data from LIDAR scans and overlaying the cave maps. QGIS is available for Linux. I do not have it installed, mostly because I know so little about what it can do and how to use it. So far we are experimenting with a couple of very small caves. One is less than 30 meters, the other is about 150 meters. They are only 50 meters apart, and there are numerous sinkholes nearby. The larger cave has a debris pile in the back that blows air and might be possible to dig through. We want to see if there are corresponding surface features. === Bill Gee On 7/7/23 02:25, Xavier Robert wrote: Hi Bill, I do not really understand why to export survey stations as a geotiff file (raster, image). Survey stations are points (vectors) and are more easier to manage through GIS softwares as shapefiles (vector format). This is the Therion ESRI output. In the ESRI output folder, you have several shapefiles in 2D (exported as map) and in 3D (exported as model): outline, areas, lines, areas, points, shots3d, stations3d (several files for each shapefile). Stations3d contains all the stations of the survey… The points shapefile should also contain the points station. See the attribut table associated to this file and use that to select the points you want to plot. For one of my main project, I wanted to produce a clean georeferenced map with : * the survey with a rendering depending on the zoom used, * at important zoom, the stations with their altitude, * and overlays as OSM, Geology, hillshade, altitude contours,… We used that in a QGIS project that we coupled with the Merging Maps app. This is still in development, but that permits to do field prospection with all the cave database and GPS positioning on your phone. Unfortunately, the direct ESRI Therion output is not clean enough to produce such GIS maps. I needed to write Python scripts to : * add the stations and entrances altitude as a new column in the attribute table, * cut the lines and areas shapefiles to keep only what is inside the outline (expect for the option clip off); Before running this script, I often need to test the validity of the polygons shapefiles to make sure that they are valid… We also make some svg symbols corresponding to symbols used by Therion, but this is not yet complete. (If someone has already a svg symbols library for therion shp, I am interested !) For those interested, this is now partially included in the Samoëns cave repository : https://github.com/robertxa/Topographies-Samoens_Folly <https://github.com/robertxa/Topographies-Samoens_Folly> (written mostly in French) To make the GIS files, I run the « SamoensGIS.thconfig ». After compiling Therion files, it calls Python scripts (edit the .thconfig to check if the lines are not commented) that are in Samoens-GIS/Scripts (https://github.com/robertxa/Topographies-Samoens_Folly/tree/master/Samoens-GIS/Scripts <https://github.com/robertxa/Topographies-Samoens_Folly/tree/master/Samoens-GIS/Scripts>). The whole QGIS project is not uploaded on GitHub as some files are to big for Github. But I can share it on demand. For now, this is still a bit dirty (and still dedicated to this project, you will need numerous changes to apply it to an other project), I am still working on this. If you try it, if you miss a specific file, if you have any questions or suggestions/improvements, etc. do not hesitate to contact me ! Cheers, Xavier Le 7 juil. 2023 à 02:01, Bill Gee <mailto:b...@campercaver.net>> a écrit : A question has come up from one of my caver friends who is very new to cave survey but an old hand at ArcGIS and various other ESRI tools. He earns a living as a GIS expert. He would like to get a georeferenced TIFF (GeoTIFF) which includes GPS coordinates of survey stations. I looked at the KML file produced by Therion and find no references to survey stations. A KML file is really just a long (very long!) list of GPS coordinates, so it probably could include survey stations. So my question for the group: Is there a way to produce a GeoTIFF file which includes survey stations? Related question: Do the ESRI outputs from Therion include survey stations? Thanks! -- === Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Creating GeoTIFF files
A question has come up from one of my caver friends who is very new to cave survey but an old hand at ArcGIS and various other ESRI tools. He earns a living as a GIS expert. He would like to get a georeferenced TIFF (GeoTIFF) which includes GPS coordinates of survey stations. I looked at the KML file produced by Therion and find no references to survey stations. A KML file is really just a long (very long!) list of GPS coordinates, so it probably could include survey stations. So my question for the group: Is there a way to produce a GeoTIFF file which includes survey stations? Related question: Do the ESRI outputs from Therion include survey stations? Thanks! -- === Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Problem compiling Therion 6.1.7 on Fedora 38
Arithmetic problems?!?! If it's not one thing, it's another!
Thanks for your efforts. I will be patient and see how things develop.
For now I have a working installation of Therion 6.1.6, and I have no
active cave map projects.
=======
Bill Gee
On 5/15/23 10:38, Matěj Plch wrote:
It should be fixed in the master branch now, the problem was caused by
the new version of GCC 13.1. However, with the same compiler there is
an issue with floating-point arithmetics, so Therion now computes
different results, we are investigating how to fix this.
so 13. 5. 2023 v 0:12 odesílatel Matěj Plch napsal:
Looks like there are for some reason missing includes, I will fix and test this
on Fedora over the weekend.
Dne pá 12. 5. 2023 20:12 uživatel Bill Gee napsal:
Thanks! That made a difference. I still get an error, but it happens
later in the process. This happens after a bunch of other g++ commands
have run.
== Paste text =
g++ -c -DIMG_API_VERSION=1 -Wall -DTHLINUX -O2 -DPROJ_VER=9
-I/usr/include -Iextern -Iextern/shapelib -Iextern/quickhull -std=c++17
-o thdb1d.o thdb1d.cxx
In file included from extern/quickhull/QuickHull.hpp:10,
from thdb1d.cxx:53:
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:41:30: error: ‘uint8_t’ in namespace
‘std’ does not name a type; did you mean ‘wint_t’?
41 | std::uint8_t
m_isVisibleFaceOnCurrentIteration : 1;
| ^~~
| wint_t
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:42:30: error: ‘uint8_t’ in namespace
‘std’ does not name a type; did you mean ‘wint_t’?
42 | std::uint8_t m_inFaceStack : 1;
| ^~~
| wint_t
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:43:30: error: ‘uint8_t’ in namespace
‘std’ does not name a type; did you mean ‘wint_t’?
43 | std::uint8_t
m_horizonEdgesOnCurrentIteration : 3; // Bit for each half edge assigned
to this face, each being 0 or 1 depending on whether the edge belongs to
horizon edge
| ^~~
| wint_t
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp: In constructor
‘quickhull::MeshBuilder::Face::Face()’:
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:50:42: error: class
‘quickhull::MeshBuilder::Face’ does not have any field named
‘m_isVisibleFaceOnCurrentIteration’
50 |
m_isVisibleFaceOnCurrentIteration(0),
|
^
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:51:42: error: class
‘quickhull::MeshBuilder::Face’ does not have any field named
‘m_inFaceStack’
51 | m_inFaceStack(0),
| ^
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:52:42: error: class
‘quickhull::MeshBuilder::Face’ does not have any field named
‘m_horizonEdgesOnCurrentIteration’
52 |
m_horizonEdgesOnCurrentIteration(0)
|
^~~~
make: *** [Makefile:151: thdb1d.o] Error 1
End of pasted text
When I built therion 6.1.6 on Fedora 37, I used cmake instead of make.
Trying that process, I get yet another error!
== Begin pasted text ===
/home/bgee/Installs/therion-6.1.7/loch/lxFile.cxx: In member function
‘bool lxFile::HasAnyWalls()’:
/home/bgee/Installs/therion-6.1.7/loch/lxFile.cxx:1345:30: error: no
match for ‘operator!=’ (operand types are ‘lxFileSize’ and ‘’)
1345 | if (shi->m_sectionType != LXFILE_SHOT_SECTION_NONE) {
| ~~ ^~
|||
|lxFileSize
/home/bgee/Installs/therion-6.1.7/loch/lxMath.h:77:6: note: candidate:
‘bool operator!=(const lxVec&, const lxVec&)’
77 | bool operator != ( const lxVec& p, const lxVec& q );
| ^~~~
/home/bgee/Installs/therion-6.1.7/loch/lxMath.h:77:33: note: no known
conversion for argument 1 from ‘lxFileSize’ to ‘const lxVec&’
77 | bool operator != ( const lxVec& p, const lxVec& q );
|~^
make[2]: *** [loch/CMakeFiles/common-utils.dir/build.make:76:
loch/CMakeFiles/common-utils.dir/lxFile.cxx.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/Makefile2:3821:
loch/CMakeFiles/common-utils.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [Makefile:146: all] Error 2
=== End pasted text ===
===
Bill Gee
On 5/12/23 12:40, Matěj Plch wrote:
Hi, Therion 6.1.7 does not include internal copy of fmt library, you
need to install package fmt-devel.
Dne pá 12. 5. 2023 17:03 uživatel Bill Gee mailto:b...@campercaver.net>> napsal:
I gave it a shot today to see if I could duplicate Rodrigo's
problem. I
got a completely different error:
==
Re: [Therion] Problem compiling Therion 6.1.7 on Fedora 38
Thanks! That made a difference. I still get an error, but it happens
later in the process. This happens after a bunch of other g++ commands
have run.
== Paste text =
g++ -c -DIMG_API_VERSION=1 -Wall -DTHLINUX -O2 -DPROJ_VER=9
-I/usr/include -Iextern -Iextern/shapelib -Iextern/quickhull -std=c++17
-o thdb1d.o thdb1d.cxx
In file included from extern/quickhull/QuickHull.hpp:10,
from thdb1d.cxx:53:
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:41:30: error: ‘uint8_t’ in namespace
‘std’ does not name a type; did you mean ‘wint_t’?
41 | std::uint8_t
m_isVisibleFaceOnCurrentIteration : 1;
| ^~~
| wint_t
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:42:30: error: ‘uint8_t’ in namespace
‘std’ does not name a type; did you mean ‘wint_t’?
42 | std::uint8_t m_inFaceStack : 1;
| ^~~
| wint_t
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:43:30: error: ‘uint8_t’ in namespace
‘std’ does not name a type; did you mean ‘wint_t’?
43 | std::uint8_t
m_horizonEdgesOnCurrentIteration : 3; // Bit for each half edge assigned
to this face, each being 0 or 1 depending on whether the edge belongs to
horizon edge
| ^~~
| wint_t
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp: In constructor
‘quickhull::MeshBuilder::Face::Face()’:
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:50:42: error: class
‘quickhull::MeshBuilder::Face’ does not have any field named
‘m_isVisibleFaceOnCurrentIteration’
50 |
m_isVisibleFaceOnCurrentIteration(0),
|
^
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:51:42: error: class
‘quickhull::MeshBuilder::Face’ does not have any field named
‘m_inFaceStack’
51 | m_inFaceStack(0),
| ^
extern/quickhull/Structs/Mesh.hpp:52:42: error: class
‘quickhull::MeshBuilder::Face’ does not have any field named
‘m_horizonEdgesOnCurrentIteration’
52 |
m_horizonEdgesOnCurrentIteration(0)
|
^~~~
make: *** [Makefile:151: thdb1d.o] Error 1
End of pasted text
When I built therion 6.1.6 on Fedora 37, I used cmake instead of make.
Trying that process, I get yet another error!
== Begin pasted text ===
/home/bgee/Installs/therion-6.1.7/loch/lxFile.cxx: In member function
‘bool lxFile::HasAnyWalls()’:
/home/bgee/Installs/therion-6.1.7/loch/lxFile.cxx:1345:30: error: no
match for ‘operator!=’ (operand types are ‘lxFileSize’ and ‘’)
1345 | if (shi->m_sectionType != LXFILE_SHOT_SECTION_NONE) {
| ~~ ^~
|||
|lxFileSize
/home/bgee/Installs/therion-6.1.7/loch/lxMath.h:77:6: note: candidate:
‘bool operator!=(const lxVec&, const lxVec&)’
77 | bool operator != ( const lxVec& p, const lxVec& q );
| ^~~~
/home/bgee/Installs/therion-6.1.7/loch/lxMath.h:77:33: note: no known
conversion for argument 1 from ‘lxFileSize’ to ‘const lxVec&’
77 | bool operator != ( const lxVec& p, const lxVec& q );
|~^
make[2]: *** [loch/CMakeFiles/common-utils.dir/build.make:76:
loch/CMakeFiles/common-utils.dir/lxFile.cxx.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/Makefile2:3821:
loch/CMakeFiles/common-utils.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [Makefile:146: all] Error 2
=== End pasted text =======
===
Bill Gee
On 5/12/23 12:40, Matěj Plch wrote:
Hi, Therion 6.1.7 does not include internal copy of fmt library, you
need to install package fmt-devel.
Dne pá 12. 5. 2023 17:03 uživatel Bill Gee <mailto:b...@campercaver.net>> napsal:
I gave it a shot today to see if I could duplicate Rodrigo's
problem. I
got a completely different error:
===
[bgee@main2 build]$ cmake ..
CMake Error at cmake/Dependencies.cmake:8 (find_package):
By not providing "Findfmt.cmake" in CMAKE_MODULE_PATH this
project has
asked CMake to find a package configuration file provided by
"fmt", but
CMake did not find one.
Could not find a package configuration file provided by "fmt"
with any of
the following names:
fmtConfig.cmake
fmt-config.cmake
Add the installation prefix of "fmt" to CMAKE_PREFIX_PATH or set
"fmt_DIR"
to a directory containing one of the above files. If "fmt"
provides a
separate development package or SDK, b
[Therion] Problem compiling Therion 6.1.7 on Fedora 38
I gave it a shot today to see if I could duplicate Rodrigo's problem. I got a completely different error: === [bgee@main2 build]$ cmake .. CMake Error at cmake/Dependencies.cmake:8 (find_package): By not providing "Findfmt.cmake" in CMAKE_MODULE_PATH this project has asked CMake to find a package configuration file provided by "fmt", but CMake did not find one. Could not find a package configuration file provided by "fmt" with any of the following names: fmtConfig.cmake fmt-config.cmake Add the installation prefix of "fmt" to CMAKE_PREFIX_PATH or set "fmt_DIR" to a directory containing one of the above files. If "fmt" provides a separate development package or SDK, be sure it has been installed. Call Stack (most recent call first): CMakeLists.txt:18 (include) === This is Fedora 38. The compile of 6.1.6 on Fedora 37 worked correctly for me. 6.1.6 still works after the upgrade to Fedora 38. I did not recompile it. -- === Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Therion vs. Proj 9 - Fedora 37
I am happy to report that things have changed regarding compiling Therion from source. I have done it twice now on Fedora 37 systems, and both times it worked the first time and with no error. I did the compile on a test system using Therion 6.1.5 - just a few hours before 6.1.6 came out! The second system I used 6.1.6. Both worked. The github link cited by Rodrigo Severo was critical. There is a list of prerequisite packages in the docker config file, and a sequence of commands. Although I did not build a docker package, the prerequisites and command sequence worked the same. The only change I had to make was in the application launcher shortcuts. The "make install" routine puts the Therion Book and the executable files in a different place (/usr/local/bin) than Jim Begley's packages (/usr/bin). I did NOT have to make a symbolic link for the libnghttp2 library. Otherwise Therion and loch both launch and run just fine. ======= Bill Gee On 1/11/23 10:45, Bill Gee wrote: Hi Rodrigo - Thanks for this. As you note, it may not be much help. I have never had much luck compiling Therion from source. Jim Begley's yum repository was a life-saver for me. As I recall, it was always loch that caused the whole compile job to abort. Eventually I had to modify the make file so that loch was skipped. I will look over your github comments in more detail soon. I have a test Fedora 37 machine where I can try to compile Therion. My main computer (Fedora 36) and my test Fedora 37 both have /lib/libnghttp2.so.14. It is actually a symbolic link to libnghttp2.so.14.24.1 on both systems. These files also exist in /usr/lib64 on both systems. There is no libnghttp2.so on either system. Perhaps the symbolic link you suggest on github should point to the underlying file? I see that you (or someone) compiled Therion to a docker application. I suppose that might be useful to someone, but docker (and snap and flatpak) is something I have had no success with. Those technologies all strike me as an answer searching - and not finding - a suitable question. I tried a flatpak for LabPlot a few years ago and found it totally useless. I could not use it to open any existing file on the computer, and any file it saved went into an invisible storage such that I could not find it with any other application. Totally useless. ======= Bill Gee On 1/11/23 08:20, Rodrigo Severo via Therion wrote: Not exactly a solution for your problem but kind of: I manually compiled Therion on Fedora 37. Here you can see how I did it: https://github.com/therion/therion/pull/474 Regards, Rodrigo Severo --- Original Message --- On Wednesday, January 11th, 2023 at 11:11 AM, Bill Gee wrote: A few months ago when Fedora 37 came out, I found that Therion will not run because of a change in the version of proj. Jim Begley noted that he was taking a stab at getting Therion to compile on Fedora 37 and proj 9. Since then I have heard nothing. If I use dnf install therion on a Fedora 37, it tells me there is no such package. And yes, it has the copr repository file. Is there any update? I have two systems which cannot be upgraded to Fedora 37 because of this issue. Thanks! -- ======= Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Therion vs. Proj 9 - Fedora 37
Hi Rodrigo - Thanks for this. As you note, it may not be much help. I have never had much luck compiling Therion from source. Jim Begley's yum repository was a life-saver for me. As I recall, it was always loch that caused the whole compile job to abort. Eventually I had to modify the make file so that loch was skipped. I will look over your github comments in more detail soon. I have a test Fedora 37 machine where I can try to compile Therion. My main computer (Fedora 36) and my test Fedora 37 both have /lib/libnghttp2.so.14. It is actually a symbolic link to libnghttp2.so.14.24.1 on both systems. These files also exist in /usr/lib64 on both systems. There is no libnghttp2.so on either system. Perhaps the symbolic link you suggest on github should point to the underlying file? I see that you (or someone) compiled Therion to a docker application. I suppose that might be useful to someone, but docker (and snap and flatpak) is something I have had no success with. Those technologies all strike me as an answer searching - and not finding - a suitable question. I tried a flatpak for LabPlot a few years ago and found it totally useless. I could not use it to open any existing file on the computer, and any file it saved went into an invisible storage such that I could not find it with any other application. Totally useless. === Bill Gee On 1/11/23 08:20, Rodrigo Severo via Therion wrote: Not exactly a solution for your problem but kind of: I manually compiled Therion on Fedora 37. Here you can see how I did it: https://github.com/therion/therion/pull/474 Regards, Rodrigo Severo --- Original Message --- On Wednesday, January 11th, 2023 at 11:11 AM, Bill Gee wrote: A few months ago when Fedora 37 came out, I found that Therion will not run because of a change in the version of proj. Jim Begley noted that he was taking a stab at getting Therion to compile on Fedora 37 and proj 9. Since then I have heard nothing. If I use dnf install therion on a Fedora 37, it tells me there is no such package. And yes, it has the copr repository file. Is there any update? I have two systems which cannot be upgraded to Fedora 37 because of this issue. Thanks! -- === Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Therion vs. Proj 9 - Fedora 37
A few months ago when Fedora 37 came out, I found that Therion will not run because of a change in the version of proj. Jim Begley noted that he was taking a stab at getting Therion to compile on Fedora 37 and proj 9. Since then I have heard nothing. If I use dnf install therion on a Fedora 37, it tells me there is no such package. And yes, it has the copr repository file. Is there any update? I have two systems which cannot be upgraded to Fedora 37 because of this issue. Thanks! -- === Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Upgrade to Fedora 37 - Problems with proj packages
Is there any news on this subject? === Bill Gee On 11/16/22 15:00, James Begley wrote: Hiya, I'm aware of this issue - I'm currently struggling to build therion under fedora 37 (which has proj v9 installed). I had hoped that it would be a simple task to rebuild therion to pick up the new proj libraries, but that doesnt appear to be the case. Cheers, James On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 at 20:41, Bill Gee <mailto:b...@campercaver.net>> wrote: I think this is not really a Therion problem, but it is likely to affect Therion users who run Fedora. The recent release of Fedora 37 does not have the proj package that Therion requires. Attempting an upgrade gives this: Error: Problem: package therion-6.1.2-1.fc36.x86_64 requires libproj.so.22()(64bit), but none of the providers can be installed - proj-8.2.1-6.fc36.x86_64 does not belong to a distupgrade repository - problem with installed package therion-6.1.2-1.fc36.x86_64 -- ======= Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk <mailto:Therion@speleo.sk> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion <https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion> ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Upgrade to Fedora 37 - Problems with proj packages
I think this is not really a Therion problem, but it is likely to affect Therion users who run Fedora. The recent release of Fedora 37 does not have the proj package that Therion requires. Attempting an upgrade gives this: Error: Problem: package therion-6.1.2-1.fc36.x86_64 requires libproj.so.22()(64bit), but none of the providers can be installed - proj-8.2.1-6.fc36.x86_64 does not belong to a distupgrade repository - problem with installed package therion-6.1.2-1.fc36.x86_64 -- === Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] More on showing only some cross-sections
Hmmm That is an interesting idea! It never occurred to me to put cross-sections on a different map. I am about to leave for a couple of weeks of canoeing in Canada. When I return I will take a closer look at Heartbreak Hill Thanks for the suggestion. === Bill Gee On 8/30/22 10:25, Andrew Atkinson wrote: On 30/08/2022 15:48, Bill Gee wrote: It occurs to me that perhaps some of the cross-sections could be put in a custom group or context. So my first questions: Is it possible to create a group or a context? Can I add more than one group or context to a symbol such as a cross-section? I had completely forgotten about this way of doing it, although I used it for a different reason, therefore, it might not be useable in your case. Look at (or download it) http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/CheddarCatchment/Goughs/ In this case I have put cross sections into a scrap (and then a map). For example HeartbreakHill has a file XSectionsHeartbreakHill.th2 in which there is a scrap XSectionSP In the file HeartbreakHill.th I have then made it a map map XSectionM XSectionSP endmap As maps can be displayed or not displayed this could be used to have a couple of different sets of sections. Goodness knows how hard it is to manage Good luck Andrew ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] More on showing only some cross-sections
A few weeks ago I asked about the possibility of creating a map where only some of the cross-sections are shown. It is easy to include or leave out ALL cross-sections, but I would like a way to include only a dozen or so. No one had any usable answers. There was one suggestion about using macros, but not enough detail for me to figure out how to investigate it. It occurs to me that perhaps some of the cross-sections could be put in a custom group or context. So my first questions: Is it possible to create a group or a context? Can I add more than one group or context to a symbol such as a cross-section? Next is a related question. The owner of the cave I am working on is considering creation of a publication of photos they can sell in their gift shop. I think a very useful addition to such a book would be a map showing where the photos were taken. I can, of course, add labels anywhere on the map. The problem is that I want to be able to make maps which do NOT include the photo location symbols. So my next set of questions: Is there a symbol that might be used to indicate location and direction of a photo? Is there a way to group those symbols so they can be left out with something like "symbol-hide group photos"? This might all be more easily done with custom attributes. The Therion Book has only a few short lines about them. Is there more documentation or perhaps some sample code as to how they might be used? And my last question is more general. Is there a list of the predefined contexts and groups? Thanks! ======= Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Passage height values
I am working on a map where there is a long section of very low belly crawl. Most of the passage is between about 6 inches and 15 inches high. I would like to use values in the passage height symbols which reflect the height with a bit more accuracy than seems to be default. It appears that the passage height symbol will take any value, but for display it is rounded down. For example, "-value [0.5 ft]" becomes 0 when the map is compiled. [1 ft] becomes 1, as expected. [1.5] remains at 1. I tried specifying a value in centimeters as "-value [12 cm]" but that still came out as 0 on the compiled map. It did not produce an error - it just did not display as I wanted. With passage height values over about 3 or 4 feet the decimals are not all that important. In passage this low, however, the difference between 6 inches and 12 inches is the difference between not passable and passable. Therefore I think it is important to make the distinction. Is there a way to make the passage height symbol use the actual value provided? Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Displaying some (not all) cross sections
Thanks Andrew. I gave your suggestion a test. "-context point section" (singular, not plural) is the correct option. It works well! Now all I have to do is find all the arrows. I tried using "-context point sections" and that gave an error during compile. I think that partially answers one of my follow-up questions ... Is it possible to create user-defined contexts? It might be possible, but it is not as simple as declaring them in a "-context" option. Is there a list of all known contexts? Is it possible to define a new context? Can an object have more than one context? My idea here is to create another context, then put some cross sections in that instead of (or in addition to) their normal context. Then if I want only some cross sections, I use only one symbol-hide line in the layout. If I want no cross sections, then I use two (or more) symbol-hide lines. The idea of using attributes is interesting. I have never used macros and have no idea where to begin with them. Bill Gee On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 11:36:26 AM CDT Andrew Atkinson wrote: > To add the arrows to the sections use > > -context point section > > See page 26 of the book. It might be sections not section, I'm on a phone so > cannot check my data. > > For reducing the number of sections, I've not tried this, but maybe > > -attr > > Adding this to some then turning them all off and then only the attr back on, > or vice versa may work. This assumes you can use symbolhide/show with an > attr. Page 36 says they can be used in macros, so if all else fails macro > writing might have to be done. > > Good luck > > Andrew > Andrew > >I have an interesting question ... I am working on a map with a lot of > >cross sections. For some audiences such as other cavers and cave databases, > >I want all of them shown. For other audiences, displaying every cross > >section makes for a lot of clutter which does not really add to their > >understanding of the cave. A few cross sections are sufficient. > > > >Some time ago I found out how to exclude all cross sections from a map > >(symbol-hide group sections). Now I want to know if there is a way to make > >a map which has only some cross sections. > > > >And a related question - For many of these cross sections I had to draw an > >arrow to show which section line was associated with the scrap. Without the > >arrows, there is no way to clearly show which scrap goes with which section > >line. When I leave out cross sections, the arrows remain. Is there a way > >to designate the arrows as part of the "sections" group? > > > >Thanks! > > > >Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > >___ > >Therion mailing list > >Therion@speleo.sk > >https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Displaying some (not all) cross sections
I have an interesting question ... I am working on a map with a lot of cross sections. For some audiences such as other cavers and cave databases, I want all of them shown. For other audiences, displaying every cross section makes for a lot of clutter which does not really add to their understanding of the cave. A few cross sections are sufficient. Some time ago I found out how to exclude all cross sections from a map (symbol-hide group sections). Now I want to know if there is a way to make a map which has only some cross sections. And a related question - For many of these cross sections I had to draw an arrow to show which section line was associated with the scrap. Without the arrows, there is no way to clearly show which scrap goes with which section line. When I leave out cross sections, the arrows remain. Is there a way to designate the arrows as part of the "sections" group? Thanks! ======== Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Therion 6.0.5 more on volume calculations
A neat new feature! Thanks! However, I am reminded of the old adage - A man with one watch always know the time. A man with two watches is never sure. Using a rather simple 50 meter cave as an example, I now get four different calculated volumes. Three of them are at least in the same ballpark, but one is about three to four times greater than the others. Compass = 5931.1 cubic feet Loch LRUD volume = 3754.1 cubic feet Loch Maps 3d = 6106.8 cubic feet MeshLab = 586.9 cubic meters (20697.9 cubic feet) MeshLab is an outlier here. Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Water areas produce heavy PDF files
I agree that Adobe Reader defines what it means to be "compatible". However, for those of us running Linux Adobe Reader is not a viable option. I used to have an rpm file for a 32-bit Adobe Reader from about 2008 or 2010. Some library changes made it stop working. Okular and poppler are part of the KDE project. I found another application called Master PDF Editor which also renders Therion maps with reasonable speed. There is a free version and it is available for all of Windows, Linux and MacOS. https://code-industry.net/masterpdfeditor/[1]It is not as fast as Adobe Reader, but much faster than Okular. ======== Bill Gee On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 5:42:45 AM CST Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > Take care which library use each viewer. PDF generated from Therion use group > transparency knockout. Check wiki: > https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/contrib:externalviewers > <https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/contrib:externalviewers> > > I don’t know Okular, but only correct viewer is Acrobat. > > Martin S. > > > 22. 2. 2022 v 19:29, Rodrigo Severo via Therion : > > > > Yes, I am using Okular. Tried Firefox and FoxIt and they were instantanious. > > > > Thanks for the tip Bill. > > > > > > Rodrigo > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > [1] https://code-industry.net/masterpdfeditor/ ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Water areas produce heavy PDF files
Hi Rodrigo - What application are you using to view the PDFs? I have found that Okular (and anything else based on the poppler libraries) is very slow to render any but the most basic maps. Firefox running on the same machine will render the PDF far faster. Adobe Reader is also much faster. I turned in a bug report on this to the poppler/Okular group last summer, and Albert Cis did some work on it. He found a way to make it much faster. I am not sure if that change has made it to the production version yet. I have not seen it yet on my Fedora 35 system with poppler version 21.08.0 and Okular 21.12.2. I have not noticed that water in particular slows things down. Maybe that is because every map I make has water in it! :-) Bill Gee On Monday, February 21, 2022 12:36:43 PM CST Rodrigo Severo via Therion wrote: > Hi, > > Does anybody knows why water areas result in such CPU intensive PDFs? And > more importantly, does anybody have any idea on how to solve this? > > Regards, > > Rodrigo Severo > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Fwd: Re: How to calculate the volume of a cave
Hi Ben - The data file I refer to is a Compass file containing centerline and LRUD data from the cave. It is not from either Therion or Survex. In this case the cave is very small, only 50 meters, and there are only 14 survey stations. Retyping it into a Compass data file did not take long. Compass and MeshLab do very different calculations to come up with volume. For my cave Compass gives about 2900 cubic feet and MeshLab gives over 20,000 cubic feet (about 585 cubic meters). Compass is doing a simple calculation based on polygons and using only centerline plus LRUD. MeshLab is a much more complex calculation based on a 3D model of triangles. Ultimately its calculation can be traces back to centerline, LRUD, walls, passage height objects and cross sections. Therion uses all of that to build a .lox file which, through translations, becomes the MeshLab file. Bill Gee On Saturday, January 29, 2022 3:42:33 AM CST Ben Cooper wrote: > Hi Bill, Torsten, > What is that file; is it a standard output file from Therion or Survex? > Best regards > Ben > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 28 Jan 2022, at 12:57, Bill Gee wrote: > > > > Ha! Torsten, you are a magician. Thanks! > > > > That was indeed exactly how I calculated this. I had completely forgotten > > about it. Fortunately the data file still exists on my Windows virtual > > machine, and Compass produces the number I need to defend. I now know how > > to reproduce the calculation. > > > > Breathing a huge sigh of relief ... > > > > > > Bill Gee > > > > > >> On Friday, January 28, 2022 6:40:00 AM CST Torsten Schnitter wrote: > >> Hi Bill > >> > >> May be you are looking for this ... !? > >> > >> cheers, > >> Torsten > >> > >>> -- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -- > >>> Von: Bill Gee > >>> An: therion@speleo.sk > >>> Datum: 14.08.2019 23:38 > >>> Betreff: Re: [Therion] How to calculate the volume of a cave > >>> > >>> > >>> Update: After poking around a bit, I discovered that Compass will > >>> calculate cave volume based on centerline and LRUD data. Doing that > >>> means I have to run a Windows computer (ugh!) and type in the survey data > >>> twice (double ugh!) Fortunately the cave for which I need this is small. > >>> > >>> Can this feature be added as a suggestion for future versions of Survex? > >>> > >>> Compass does quite a few other calculations. For example, it will > >>> calculate the volume of the bounding box. A sample report is attached. > >>> It is nice that the report is in both meters and feet. > >>> > >>>> Hi, I am also interested on volume calculation! > >>>> > >>>> Please keep me updated it! > >>>> > >>>>> On 11 Aug 2019, at 22:22, Benedikt Hallinger wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> It would be awesome if the compiler could derive this fron the loch > >>>>> model and write it to the statistics block (the one where also loop > >>>>> closure info and total west/east and north/south dimwnsions are > >>>>> returned) when compiling this, as the neccessary data should be already > >>>>> present? > >>>>> > >>>>>> Am 09.08.2019 um 14:58 schrieb Bill Gee : > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hello everyone - > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What tools can be used to calculate the volume of a cave based on > >>>>>> center line and LRUD data? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I found an email from Martin Sluka from about 4 years ago describing > >>>>>> how to use Loch to export a .lox file in other formats, then run that > >>>>>> file through CloudCompare or ParaView. The process looks very complex > >>>>>> to me, and besides - Loch does not run on my computers, so there is no > >>>>>> way for me to generate an export. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As far as I can tell, Survex does not have a way to calculate volume. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Could it be done with a KML file and Google Earth? > >>>>>> > >>>>> ___ > >>>>> Therion mailing list > >>>>> Therion@speleo.sk > >>>>> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > >>>> > >>>> ___ > >>>> Therion mailing list > >>>> Therion@speleo.sk > >>>> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > >>>> > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> Therion mailing list > >>> Therion@speleo.sk > >>> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > >> > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Fwd: Re: How to calculate the volume of a cave
Ha! Torsten, you are a magician. Thanks! That was indeed exactly how I calculated this. I had completely forgotten about it. Fortunately the data file still exists on my Windows virtual machine, and Compass produces the number I need to defend. I now know how to reproduce the calculation. Breathing a huge sigh of relief ... Bill Gee On Friday, January 28, 2022 6:40:00 AM CST Torsten Schnitter wrote: > Hi Bill > > May be you are looking for this ... !? > > cheers, > Torsten > > > -- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -- > > Von: Bill Gee > > An: therion@speleo.sk > > Datum: 14.08.2019 23:38 > > Betreff: Re: [Therion] How to calculate the volume of a cave > > > > > > Update: After poking around a bit, I discovered that Compass will > > calculate cave volume based on centerline and LRUD data. Doing that means > > I have to run a Windows computer (ugh!) and type in the survey data twice > > (double ugh!) Fortunately the cave for which I need this is small. > > > > Can this feature be added as a suggestion for future versions of Survex? > > > > Compass does quite a few other calculations. For example, it will > > calculate the volume of the bounding box. A sample report is attached. It > > is nice that the report is in both meters and feet. > > > > > Hi, I am also interested on volume calculation! > > > > > > Please keep me updated it! > > > > > > > On 11 Aug 2019, at 22:22, Benedikt Hallinger wrote: > > > > > > > > It would be awesome if the compiler could derive this fron the loch > > > > model and write it to the statistics block (the one where also loop > > > > closure info and total west/east and north/south dimwnsions are > > > > returned) when compiling this, as the neccessary data should be already > > > > present? > > > > > > > >> Am 09.08.2019 um 14:58 schrieb Bill Gee : > > > >> > > > >> Hello everyone - > > > >> > > > >> What tools can be used to calculate the volume of a cave based on > > > >> center line and LRUD data? > > > >> > > > >> I found an email from Martin Sluka from about 4 years ago describing > > > >> how to use Loch to export a .lox file in other formats, then run that > > > >> file through CloudCompare or ParaView. The process looks very complex > > > >> to me, and besides - Loch does not run on my computers, so there is no > > > >> way for me to generate an export. > > > >> > > > >> As far as I can tell, Survex does not have a way to calculate volume. > > > >> > > > >> Could it be done with a KML file and Google Earth? > > > >> > > > > ___ > > > > Therion mailing list > > > > Therion@speleo.sk > > > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > > > > ___ > > > Therion mailing list > > > Therion@speleo.sk > > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > > > > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Calculation of cave volume
One thing that may not have been clear in my original question ... Several people have pointed out a way to calculate cave volume using Paraview and MeshLab. That is great! But not much use here. In this situation I need to be able to reproduce the number I got two and a half years ago. I do not remember how I got that number. Part of this court case revolves around some conclusions that were made by others and which were based on the volume calculation I obtained then. The number I get from Meshlab is almost 5 times larger than the number I got back then. Is it possible that a version of Therion or Survex from back then produced an estimate of cave volume, and since then that calculation was taken out? Bill Gee On Thursday, January 27, 2022 6:37:17 AM CST Bill Gee wrote: > Hello everyone - > > Several years ago I made a map of a small cave. Among the data that was > calculated was an estimation of the volume of the cave. I need to find that > information again, but it has so far eluded me. I thought it was in > therion.log along with other statistics like length and bounding box > dimensions, but now I do not find it there. The estimation was based on > solids calculated from centerline and LRUD data. > > I looked in thTMPDIR and found nothing useful. I also checked to see if it > comes from Aven or Loch. Nothing there. I looked through a KML file and > found nothing. > > Can any of you point me in the right direction? Believe it or not, I need to > testify in court early next week about this. It's a long story ... > > Thanks! > > Bill Gee > > > > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Calculation of cave volume
Hi Enrico - Thank you very much! That helps. There is one more step that I had to figure out - After importing the VTK file into Paraview, I had to click on Apply. What are the units? I think it is all in meters, but not sure. Bill Gee On Thursday, January 27, 2022 8:57:59 AM CST Enrico Fratnik wrote: > Dear Bill, > >attached you can find the screenshots of the steps I have described. > > Hope this can help you > > enrico > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:23 PM Bill Gee wrote: > > > Hi Enrico - > > > > Just to see what this method would produce, I installed both Paraview and > > MeshLab on my Fedora 35 system. I opened a .lox file of the cave in Loch > > (which displays a 3d rendering of the cave) and then exported it to a .vtk > > file. I opened the .vtk file in Paraview. It shows nothing. I cannot > > find the export function. The Save data feature does not offer x3d as a > > file type. > > > > In Paraview the Information tab says there are zero cells, zero points and > > zero memory used. The x-, y- and z-range are "not available". > > > > The .vtk file exists and is about 16k bytes (it is a small cave). > > > > Am I missing something? > > > > > > Bill Gee > > > > > > On Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:52:57 AM CST Enrico Fratnik wrote: > > > Hi Bill, > > > > > >normally I export the VTK model of the cave from LOCH then I open it > > > with ParaView > > > With ParaView I export the model in x3d format and I open it with MeshLab > > > where I use the filter "Surface Reconstruction: Screened Poisson" with > > > pre-clean option active > > > After that with the filter "Compute Geometric Measures" you can retrieve > > > the volume on the log view. > > > > > > My big issue is which model is better to export with therion in order to > > > obtain an acceptable volume: the one with "-wall-source splays" or with > > > "-wall-source maps"? > > > > > > Hope this helps > > > > > > good caves to everyone > > > > > > enrico > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 1:37 PM Bill Gee wrote: > > > > > > > Hello everyone - > > > > > > > > Several years ago I made a map of a small cave. Among the data that > > was > > > > calculated was an estimation of the volume of the cave. I need to find > > > > that information again, but it has so far eluded me. I thought it was > > in > > > > therion.log along with other statistics like length and bounding box > > > > dimensions, but now I do not find it there. The estimation was based > > on > > > > solids calculated from centerline and LRUD data. > > > > > > > > I looked in thTMPDIR and found nothing useful. I also checked to see > > if > > > > it comes from Aven or Loch. Nothing there. I looked through a KML > > file > > > > and found nothing. > > > > > > > > Can any of you point me in the right direction? Believe it or not, I > > need > > > > to testify in court early next week about this. It's a long story ... > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > Therion mailing list > > > > Therion@speleo.sk > > > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Calculation of cave volume
Hi Enrico - Just to see what this method would produce, I installed both Paraview and MeshLab on my Fedora 35 system. I opened a .lox file of the cave in Loch (which displays a 3d rendering of the cave) and then exported it to a .vtk file. I opened the .vtk file in Paraview. It shows nothing. I cannot find the export function. The Save data feature does not offer x3d as a file type. In Paraview the Information tab says there are zero cells, zero points and zero memory used. The x-, y- and z-range are "not available". The .vtk file exists and is about 16k bytes (it is a small cave). Am I missing something? ======== Bill Gee On Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:52:57 AM CST Enrico Fratnik wrote: > Hi Bill, > >normally I export the VTK model of the cave from LOCH then I open it > with ParaView > With ParaView I export the model in x3d format and I open it with MeshLab > where I use the filter "Surface Reconstruction: Screened Poisson" with > pre-clean option active > After that with the filter "Compute Geometric Measures" you can retrieve > the volume on the log view. > > My big issue is which model is better to export with therion in order to > obtain an acceptable volume: the one with "-wall-source splays" or with > "-wall-source maps"? > > Hope this helps > > good caves to everyone > > enrico > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 1:37 PM Bill Gee wrote: > > > Hello everyone - > > > > Several years ago I made a map of a small cave. Among the data that was > > calculated was an estimation of the volume of the cave. I need to find > > that information again, but it has so far eluded me. I thought it was in > > therion.log along with other statistics like length and bounding box > > dimensions, but now I do not find it there. The estimation was based on > > solids calculated from centerline and LRUD data. > > > > I looked in thTMPDIR and found nothing useful. I also checked to see if > > it comes from Aven or Loch. Nothing there. I looked through a KML file > > and found nothing. > > > > Can any of you point me in the right direction? Believe it or not, I need > > to testify in court early next week about this. It's a long story ... > > > > Thanks! > > > > Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Calculation of cave volume
Hi Enrico - I found a posting on stackexchange with this method. It is not what I used several years ago. What I did back then was much simpler ... if only I could remember it! It seems to me it was in the statistics section of the therion.log file. Someone once told me what goes first when you get old. I don't remember what that was. Bill Gee On Thursday, January 27, 2022 7:52:57 AM CST Enrico Fratnik wrote: > Hi Bill, > >normally I export the VTK model of the cave from LOCH then I open it > with ParaView > With ParaView I export the model in x3d format and I open it with MeshLab > where I use the filter "Surface Reconstruction: Screened Poisson" with > pre-clean option active > After that with the filter "Compute Geometric Measures" you can retrieve > the volume on the log view. > > My big issue is which model is better to export with therion in order to > obtain an acceptable volume: the one with "-wall-source splays" or with > "-wall-source maps"? > > Hope this helps > > good caves to everyone > > enrico > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 1:37 PM Bill Gee wrote: > > > Hello everyone - > > > > Several years ago I made a map of a small cave. Among the data that was > > calculated was an estimation of the volume of the cave. I need to find > > that information again, but it has so far eluded me. I thought it was in > > therion.log along with other statistics like length and bounding box > > dimensions, but now I do not find it there. The estimation was based on > > solids calculated from centerline and LRUD data. > > > > I looked in thTMPDIR and found nothing useful. I also checked to see if > > it comes from Aven or Loch. Nothing there. I looked through a KML file > > and found nothing. > > > > Can any of you point me in the right direction? Believe it or not, I need > > to testify in court early next week about this. It's a long story ... > > > > Thanks! > > > > Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Calculation of cave volume
Hello everyone - Several years ago I made a map of a small cave. Among the data that was calculated was an estimation of the volume of the cave. I need to find that information again, but it has so far eluded me. I thought it was in therion.log along with other statistics like length and bounding box dimensions, but now I do not find it there. The estimation was based on solids calculated from centerline and LRUD data. I looked in thTMPDIR and found nothing useful. I also checked to see if it comes from Aven or Loch. Nothing there. I looked through a KML file and found nothing. Can any of you point me in the right direction? Believe it or not, I need to testify in court early next week about this. It's a long story ... Thanks! Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Handling of tape and backtape in survey data
Hi Olly - Many thanks for the answers. I think I will give BACKTAPE a try the next time I do some survey, if only to see what happens. My question about significant digits is really related to how much precision can and should be carried through a calculation. If compass readings are taken to four significant digits, then the mean of two such numbers is really only good to about three and a half significant digits. Displaying more significant digits implies more precision that actually exists. A compass reading even from a DistoX2 is probably accurate to only +/- 2 least significant digits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_figures[1] However, you have an excellent point about easting and northing data. Those number can be measure accurately to enough significant digits that a double-precision data type is needed. Speed is not an issue. Survex and Therion both compile my biggest maps in seconds. Shaving a few seconds is of little benefit. And to your last comment about furlongs ... LOL! I remember a huge argument some years ago about what the speed of light is in furlongs per fortnight. It was a hoot! Thanks! Bill Gee On Monday, December 27, 2021 3:56:04 PM CST Olly Betts wrote: > On Sat, Dec 25, 2021 at 08:50:26AM -0600, Bill Gee wrote: > > 1) Does Therion also recognize the BACKTAPE data type? > > It seems not - there's no match in the source code repo for: > > git grep -i BACKTAPE > > > 2) What does Survex do if both TAPE and BACKTAPE are given? Does it > > average the two readings? Does Therion do the same thing? > > Survex warns if they differ by more than 3 standard deviations, and then > takes the mean of the readings. > > > I understand that Therion will use Survex to reduce the centerline > > data - if Survex is installed. In case Survex is NOT installed, then > > Therion reduces the centerline itself. As a result they might handle > > this situation differently. > > Also, Therion generates a .svx file behind the scenes, but not > necessarily the .svx file you'd write yourself given the same data. > For example, I think Therion collapses backsights to a single reading > itself before processing with Survex. > > > As I write this, another related question occurred to me. When either > > Therion or Survex averages a forward and backward reading, how many > > significant digits does it carry in the calculation? Can the > > significant digits be changed? > > Survex uses double precision for this: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-precision_floating-point_format > > That has 15-17 significant decimal digits - i.e. many more than matter > here. > > Using more precision seems overkill. > > If you really want to use fewer it should be possible to build cavern > to use single precision, but I don't think anyone actually does this. > We made it an option as decades ago it seemed you might want to do this > to reduce memory usage (4 bytes per floating point number instead of 8) > but cavern's memory use is very modest by modern standards, and single > precision only gives 6-9 significant decimal digits, which isn't even > enough to reliably store a UTM Northing to the nearest metre so you'd be > limited in what coordinate systems you could use in such a build. > > I don't see why you'd want to be able to dynamically force rounding to > fewer significant figures - what's the benefit? > > Downsides of rounding are it would slow things down a bit, and it risks > introducing systematic biases - a dumb example to make the issue > clearer: if all readings are to the nearest inch and you round the > average to the nearest inch and always round 0.5 up, then then assuming > an even distribution there's an average bias of +0.25 inches on each > tape reading. The problem with systematic biases is they accumulate > rather than tending to cancel. > > There are other rounding schemes which try to address this sort of > issue (like rounding 0.5 to the nearest even number) but it's hard to be > certain they might not introduce a more subtle bias (some cave systems > have dominant direction passage develops along so the distribution is > may not uniform across odd and even) and there doesn't seem a compelling > reason to be rounding in the first place. > > > And the same question applies to loop closure calculations. How many > > significant digits are carried through the calculations? > > The same. > > The final results are then stored in the .3d file to the nearest cm > (that's 0.49710 furlongs for our US readers). That precision was > chosen so that coordinate values will fit in a 32 bit integer, and seems > adequate for the final results. > > Cheers, > Olly > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_figures ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Handling of tape and backtape in survey data
Ben's comment about backshots being a form of loop is interesting. I had not though of it that way, but he is right! I do not use electronic sketching in a cave. All the data from the DistoX2 goes on paper just like Suunto/tape data. I have looked at Qave and TopoDroid, and for now I think they are not quite ready for prime time. There are people out there who swear by electronic sketching. I am just an old curmudgeon! But not quite old enough to go back to Bruntons. I am also not convinced that a DistoX is more accurate than Suunto/tape methods. It is certainly easier to use, especially for newbies. It is much less bulky since the tape reel can be left behind, and it really helps with LRUD measurements. But -- Do not assume that "electronic" is the same as "accurate". In a recent update to one of my project caves, I noticed the loop closure errors from Survex were impressive. Most were under 2%, and several under 1%. Even better - those loops used readings taken with both Suunto/tape and DistoX2 by several teams over a period of three years. I think the critical factor is getting good back shots to verify the data in the field, and then having the computer average the forward and back shots. I remember seeing a presentation at a recent NSS Convention (2020, maybe?) where someone took an uncalibrated DistoX2 and ran it around a survey course on the surface. By averaging the forward and backward shots he got loop closures around 1% over 400 feet and a dozen stations. The data using Suunto/tape and a calibrated DistoX2 was not significantly different in the loop closure. Bill Gee On Monday, December 27, 2021 1:15:27 PM CST Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > > > 26. 12. 2021 v 19:32, Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion : > > > > However, for Disto > > surveying, it feels largely unnecessary, as the accuracy is already a > > lot more than most surveys need when just using forward sightings. > > But because DistoX is an electronic device it is only way to be sure it works > properly. The same as check, if three (four) readings for surveying leg with > rotation around the longitudinal axe of DistoX are in tolerance interval. > > Martin S. > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Handling of tape and backtape in survey data
Hello everyone - I have a holiday question for the group. We have for years done our survey shots both directions, obtaining a forward and backward reading for both compass and inclinometer. The two readings are averaged by Survex and Therion in an effort to reduce errors. The tape reading, however, has only been a single number. Now that the use of DistoX2 devices is becoming common, it is easy to get a distance measurement both forward and backward. I have been ignoring the backward distance reading in the field. It does not get into my notes. I might need to change that practice. I looked at the Survex manual yesterday and see that it supports both TAPE and BACKTAPE (also called LENGTH and BACKLENGTH) in the survey data. That brings up two questions: 1) Does Therion also recognize the BACKTAPE data type? 2) What does Survex do if both TAPE and BACKTAPE are given? Does it average the two readings? Does Therion do the same thing? I understand that Therion will use Survex to reduce the centerline data - if Survex is installed. In case Survex is NOT installed, then Therion reduces the centerline itself. As a result they might handle this situation differently. As I write this, another related question occurred to me. When either Therion or Survex averages a forward and backward reading, how many significant digits does it carry in the calculation? Can the significant digits be changed? And the same question applies to loop closure calculations. How many significant digits are carried through the calculations? Thanks! Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Hiding cross-section symbols
A good idea that I had not thought of! But it won't work for me. I like to use "-direction both" on my section lines. Yes, I could put the direction arrow on one end only, but that is not my work habit. For others - an excellent idea. ==== Bill Gee On Sunday, November 28, 2021 4:04:58 AM CST Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > line section could have more than one segment. Second (third, …) section you > may use instead of arrows. > > Martin > > > 27. 11. 2021 v 23:58, Bill Gee : > > > > Placing a scrap near its section line is not always possible, so I use an > > arrow line to indicate which scrap belongs to which line. > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Hiding cross-section symbols
"-context line section" did the trick. Once again - Thank you! It seems odd ... The first question I had was solved by adding an 's'. This time it was solved by removing an 's'. The function described on page 27 of the Therion book seems to be related to a line of type section. I use those all the time. That kind of line indicates where in the cave the cross section goes. I then add a point of type cross-section which places the scrap on the map. An option for the point tells which scrap goes with it. The thing about this map is that it has a LOT of cross sections crowded into a small area. Placing a scrap near its section line is not always possible, so I use an arrow line to indicate which scrap belongs to which line. Doing a symbol-hide on the sections takes out both the scraps and the section lines, but leaves the arrows. The map is much less busy, but those arrows are just hanging out there with no obvious purpose. Now I know how to take them out too. Bill Gee On Saturday, November 27, 2021 1:31:34 PM CST Andrew Atkinson wrote: > -context point section > > Or > > -context line section > > Annoyingly on xtherion one of these is called something like cross section, I > cannot check as I'm on a phone. > > Have you tried the built in function for showing cross sections? It gets a > bit of getting use to but works well. Page 27 of thboolk. > > You might be able to use, but I've never tried. > > -context group sections > > > Be warned context doesn't always work, I imagine as they are very untested > by end users, but a bug report has ended up with a rapid fix in the past 👍 > One of the first two definatly work as I've used it on labels for cross > section, well it worked for labels. > > Andrew > >And a followup question! More secret incantations ... > > > >Although the cross-section lines and scraps are now gone, the arrows that I > >used to connect them are still there. I tried adding an option to the arrow > >line, like this: > > > > -context sections > > > >but that only produces an error "not enough option arguments -- -context -- > >must be 2". I changed it to read > > > > -context line sections > > > >and got "invalid object context -- line sections". > > > >Page 29 of the Therion Book implies that something like this should be > >possible. I don't want to hide ALL arrows - just the ones that are used in > >association with cross-sections. > > > >Maybe I need to use some other context besides "sections"? Perhaps define > >those arrows as context of "section_arrow", then use "symbol-hide group > >section_arrow"? > > > > > >Bill Gee > > > > > >On Saturday, November 27, 2021 12:13:08 PM CST Bill Gee wrote: > >> Yep, that did it. Thanks! > >> > >> Now that I know what to look for, I see on page 52 of the Therion Book > >> that "sections" is listed as a possible group under symbol-assign. It is > >> not in either symbol-hide or symbol-show, which is why I missed it. > >> > >> > >> Bill Gee > >> > >> > >> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 11:29:00 AM CST Andrew Atkinson wrote: > >> > symbol-hide group sections > >> > > >> > All you needed was an s :) > >> > > >> > Andrew > >> > >In a map layout, what is the symbol-hide command to not produce > >> > >cross-sections? I have tried these without success: > >> > > > >> > >layout NoCrossSections > >> > > symbol-hide point section > >> > > symbol-hide line cross-section > >> > > symbol-hide section section > >> > > symbol-hide section cross-section > >> > > symbol-hide group section > >> > > symbol-hide group cross-section > >> > >endlayout > >> > > > >> > >For all of these Therion says "Unknown symbol specification". > >> > > > >> > >Thanks! > >> > > > >> > >Bill Gee > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >___ > >> > >Therion mailing list > >> > >Therion@speleo.sk > >> > >https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> Therion mailing list > >> Therion@speleo.sk > >> https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > >> > > > > > > > > > >___ > >Therion mailing list > >Therion@speleo.sk > >https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Hiding cross-section symbols
And a followup question! More secret incantations ... Although the cross-section lines and scraps are now gone, the arrows that I used to connect them are still there. I tried adding an option to the arrow line, like this: -context sections but that only produces an error "not enough option arguments -- -context -- must be 2". I changed it to read -context line sections and got "invalid object context -- line sections". Page 29 of the Therion Book implies that something like this should be possible. I don't want to hide ALL arrows - just the ones that are used in association with cross-sections. Maybe I need to use some other context besides "sections"? Perhaps define those arrows as context of "section_arrow", then use "symbol-hide group section_arrow"? Bill Gee On Saturday, November 27, 2021 12:13:08 PM CST Bill Gee wrote: > Yep, that did it. Thanks! > > Now that I know what to look for, I see on page 52 of the Therion Book that > "sections" is listed as a possible group under symbol-assign. It is not in > either symbol-hide or symbol-show, which is why I missed it. > > > Bill Gee > > > On Saturday, November 27, 2021 11:29:00 AM CST Andrew Atkinson wrote: > > symbol-hide group sections > > > > All you needed was an s :) > > > > Andrew > > >In a map layout, what is the symbol-hide command to not produce > > >cross-sections? I have tried these without success: > > > > > >layout NoCrossSections > > > symbol-hide point section > > > symbol-hide line cross-section > > > symbol-hide section section > > > symbol-hide section cross-section > > > symbol-hide group section > > > symbol-hide group cross-section > > >endlayout > > > > > >For all of these Therion says "Unknown symbol specification". > > > > > >Thanks! > > > > > >Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >___ > > >Therion mailing list > > >Therion@speleo.sk > > >https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > > > > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Hiding cross-section symbols
Yep, that did it. Thanks! Now that I know what to look for, I see on page 52 of the Therion Book that "sections" is listed as a possible group under symbol-assign. It is not in either symbol-hide or symbol-show, which is why I missed it. ======== Bill Gee On Saturday, November 27, 2021 11:29:00 AM CST Andrew Atkinson wrote: > symbol-hide group sections > > All you needed was an s :) > > Andrew > >In a map layout, what is the symbol-hide command to not produce > >cross-sections? I have tried these without success: > > > >layout NoCrossSections > > symbol-hide point section > > symbol-hide line cross-section > > symbol-hide section section > > symbol-hide section cross-section > > symbol-hide group section > > symbol-hide group cross-section > >endlayout > > > >For all of these Therion says "Unknown symbol specification". > > > >Thanks! > > > >Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > >___ > >Therion mailing list > >Therion@speleo.sk > >https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Hiding cross-section symbols
In a map layout, what is the symbol-hide command to not produce cross-sections? I have tried these without success: layout NoCrossSections symbol-hide point section symbol-hide line cross-section symbol-hide section section symbol-hide section cross-section symbol-hide group section symbol-hide group cross-section endlayout For all of these Therion says "Unknown symbol specification". Thanks! ======== Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Duplicate pdftex fonts
Hello everyone - This is not really a Therion question, but it happens only when I am compiling Therion maps. I figured I would start here and see if anyone has any ideas where to go for more help. Every time I compile a map to a PDF file in Therion, pdftex issues some warnings. They look like this: pdfTeX warning: pdftex (file /usr/share/texlive/texmf-var/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/pdftex.map): fontmap entry for `rtxphvb' already exists, duplicates ignored There are ten of these, each for a different font. The maps that are produced are sane with no visible problems. I looked at the pdftex.map file and, as noted in the warning, the fonts named are in there twice. In fact, dang near EVERY font is in there twice! This warning started appearing after I upgraded from Fedora 34 to 35. It appears on two different computers. So far this is merely annoying. The maps that Therion produces look great, and I have not seen the warnings anywhere else. Even so, it would be nice to figure out what is going on and get it fixed. Has anyone else seen this? Does anyone have suggestions on where to go for help on fixing it? Thanks! Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Fedora 35 vs. Survex package
Hi James - Thanks for the update. I do not have any active cave mapping projects right now, so for my test machine I am removing Survex and proceeding with Fedora 35. When a new Survex package is available, I will give it a try. There are other reasons for me to hold off Fedora 35 upgrades on my production systems for a week or two. Bill Gee On Thursday, November 4, 2021 7:07:51 AM CDT James Begley wrote: > Hiya, > > This is a known issue that Olly is working on - see > https://trac.survex.com/ticket/102. > > Fedora 35 has moved to proj version 8.2.0, which no longer contains the > proj_api stuff that previous versiopns of survex relied on (deprecated > since version 5 or 6, actually removed from version 8.0.0). Previous > versions of fedora had proj v7, which worked with survex 1.2.44 fine, but > moving to proj v8 has had some challenges (v8.0.0 and v8.1.0 both had bugs > that blocked survex). A new release of survex that will build with proj > v8.2.0 is going to be tested this evening, and hopefully will be released > shortly after that. > > For the time being, if you want to upgrade to fedora 35 you will need to > uninstall survex first and then reinstall survex once a new build has been > released. > > Cheers, > James > > On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 at 11:57, Wookey wrote: > > > On 2021-11-04 06:36 -0500, Bill Gee wrote: > > > For JM Begley ... I tried to upgrade one of my test machines to Fedora > > 35 this morning. It balked with the Survex package. The message is: > > > > > > Error: > > > Problem: package survex-1.2.44-1.fc34.x86_64 requires > > libproj.so.19()(64bit), but none of the providers can be installed > > > - proj-7.2.1-2.fc34.x86_64 does not belong to a distupgrade repository > > > - problem with installed package survex-1.2.44-1.fc34.x86_64 > > > > > > I know it is early in the Fedora 35 cycle - just two days after > > release! Have you had a chance to look at this yet? > > > > Not that many Fedora survex users SFAIK, so probably not yet. > > I just had a look and it seems that F35 is on proj 8.2. > > https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/proj/commits/f35 > > Althogh my 'all ditrso overview' shows 8.0 in fc35: > > http://sandpiper.linaro.org/upstreamproject/details/proj > > (libproj19 > > <http://sandpiper.linaro.org/upstreamproject/details/proj(libproj19> > > comes from proj v7, libproj22 comes from proj v8) > > > > So I'm not sure if that means they removed proj7 (I'm failing to find > > fedora's 'our package list' pages). > > > > Survex works with proj8 now (and is in debian), so if you just rebuild > > it in fedora it should pick up the new proj and work. It looks like the > > one in the archive is built against proj 7 but proj7 is no longer > > available? I'm not sure how the fedora machinery works here. > > > > Wookey > > -- > > Principal hats: Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM > > http://wookware.org/ > > -- > > Survex https://lists.survex.com/mailman/listinfo/survex > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] xtherion - Multiple background sketches
Hi Olly - Thanks for the hints! I was able to get several sketches combined in GIMP. Looking at the result, it is very obvious that much more work is required in the cave. There is a huge hole in the middle which has no detail at all. There are missing walls in several places. My plan now is to print the combined sketches on a piece of paper. The next survey trip I will draw more on it. That will then become the background in Therion. The room is not so big as to be a problem in Therion. It would probably fit in a bounding box 25 meters on a side. That is a large scrap, but I think it should be no problem to draw. The two entrances to the room are well-defined, so adding it to the map will be fairly easy. Bill Gee On Monday, June 21, 2021 6:24:28 PM CDT Olly Betts wrote: > On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 04:31:45PM -0500, Bill Gee wrote: > > Now I need to figure out how to set transparency on each layer. > > Bring up the Gimp "Layers" dialog (shortcut key is Ctrl+L) and you can > click on each layer and drag the "Opacity" slider to make them partly > transparent. Or you can change the mode on each layer to "Darken only" > and the result will be the darkest part of any layer, which is probably > what you're after (assuming your sketches are dark lines on a white > background). > > > I wonder if Bruce's faint memory about setting transparency with an > > external editor worked because of using PNG format? My own faint > > memory is that xTherion uses different libraries to handle png and jpg > > files. Handling of transparency is probably a feature of the image > > library rather than xTherion. > > I don't think the standard JPEG format supports transparency. > > Cheers, > Olly > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] xtherion - Multiple background sketches
I finally figured out how to move the background images ... "Double-right-click" is probably not an accurate description. Every time I did a true double-click with the right (or alternate) mouse button, nothing happened. The trick, which I discovered quite by accident, is that you must hold down the right mouse button on the second click. Do a click,click-and-hold. With that secret the background images can be moved around. Getting them positioned correctly, though, is difficult without some transparency. I have a simple photo editor (Gwenview) but it can only crop a rectangle. It also cannot set transparency. I think I will have to spend some time with Gimp. I hauled it out this morning and figured out how to do a "lasso" selection. It was actually fairly easy. I figured out how to import multiple images, setting each one as a layer. Now I need to figure out how to set transparency on each layer. I wonder if Bruce's faint memory about setting transparency with an external editor worked because of using PNG format? My own faint memory is that xTherion uses different libraries to handle png and jpg files. Handling of transparency is probably a feature of the image library rather than xTherion. Tarquin mentioned using invisible walls. I have done that once when I mapped a shelter cave. That cave (really more of an overhang) was 200 feet wide and about 20 feet deep. I used an invisible wall to mark the cliff edge that was the outer part. For this purpose getting Therion to consider all of the room as "inside" would be a challenge. I have had situation where joining two passages left a white triangle in the center because Therion did not think that was part of the cave. I have also done line end-point joins. Those are a real pain to keep straight. They work find when done. In this case I will probably have to do some of those to get the room joined to the rest of the cave. The more I look at the sketches, the more I think we need another trip to this room. I think what I will try to do is merge all the existing sketches, then print them on a single piece of graph paper. Back at the cave I will add more to that paper. Scan it and use it for the background. Bill Gee On Monday, June 21, 2021 1:11:33 PM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > > > 21. 6. 2021 v 15:54, Bill Gee : > > > > 1) Is there a way to drag/drop reposition a background image? > > Doubleclick with right button > > > 2) Is there a way to make images transparent? I tried fiddling with the > > gamma slider but it did not do anything for transparency. > > No > > > 3) Is there a way to crop off arbitrary sections of a background image? > > Some of the sketch pages also have cross-sections, and those will seriously > > confuse things when trying to place objects. I would like to crop them out. > > You should do it in external photo editor but in xTherion you may easy switch > order of background images. > > > 4) Is this something that I need to do in an external image editor like > > Gimp? I have not used Gimp in several years. The learning curve is > > daunting. > > Try any simple photo editor - most of them are able to crop a part of image. > > Adobe Spark https://www.adobe.com/express/ > https://www.nchsoftware.com/photoeditor/index.html > <https://www.nchsoftware.com/photoeditor/index.html> > and many more. > > As a tip: compile with sketch included as .xvi may help you much. > > Martin > > thconfig: > > source ./th2_pro_xvi/colibri_2_xvi.th > > #sketch-warp plaquette > > layout morf > sketches on > endlayout > > export map -o ./output_xvi/4115-4116-4117.xvi -layout morf > > > > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] xtherion - Multiple background sketches
A week ago we had two teams of surveyors working in some very tight side areas of a cave. In the end we discovered that it was all one room. We came away with at least five pages of sketch depicting various areas of the room. It is probably not complete ... Doing a join on room sketches like this is probably not possible. Some of the sketches don't have any wall, and for two of them the wall is only along one side. I think I need to some up with some way to do the whole room in one scrap. In this case the sketches are all the same scale (1 inch to ten feet), and I rotated the scans so that north is the same direction on all of them. In xtherion I see that multiple background images can be brought in to a single th2 file. I tried it and did not immediately see what I want. So my questions to the group ... 1) Is there a way to drag/drop reposition a background image? 2) Is there a way to make images transparent? I tried fiddling with the gamma slider but it did not do anything for transparency. 3) Is there a way to crop off arbitrary sections of a background image? Some of the sketch pages also have cross-sections, and those will seriously confuse things when trying to place objects. I would like to crop them out. 4) Is this something that I need to do in an external image editor like Gimp? I have not used Gimp in several years. The learning curve is daunting. Thanks! Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Fedora package for Therion needs adjustment
JM Begley! Can you contact me off-list? I think there is an adjustment to be made in the dependency list for the Fedora 34 package of Therion. Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Creating PDF/A map files
Hello everyone - I propose a new feature for Therion. This will probably take some work, and I am sure there will be discussion about how to implement it. It seems to me that the maps we produce with Therion are likely going to be stored for a very long time, perhaps running into multiple tens of years. As we all know, computer technology over that amount of time will change drastically. Just think about the contrast in both hardware and software in the last 25 years - from Windows 95 running on 486dx processors to Linux and Windows 10 running on i7 and i9 processors. I think we have some obligation to make sure the cave maps we generate are still usable many years from now. Saving them in PDF format is a large - but incomplete - step in that direction. The new feature I propose is to modify the PDF creation code so that it produces files that are PDF/A version 1b (or possibly version 2) compliant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/A I have checked all of the PDF files I created in Therion, and none of them are flagged as PDF/A compliant. It is possible that they are, in fact, compliant and simply do not have the necessary flag. The experts can check that against the PDF/A specifications. Existing PDF documents can be checked for PDF/A compliance with a command-line tool called "verapdf". The web site for that tool is https://openpreservation.org/products/verapdf/ It is possible to use GhostScript to transform an existing PDF into a PDF/A file. The command line is daunting. https://www.mcbsys.com/blog/2018/10/batch-convert-pdf-to-pdf-a-2018-edition/ I tried the GhostScript conversion on one of my Therion maps. Immediately at startup it produced this message three times: "GPL Ghostscript 9.53.3: UTF16BE text string detected in DOCINFO cannot be represented in XMP for PDF/A1, reverting to normal PDF output" The process continued running and took about 10 minutes. The resulting file failed verapdf analysis. It also increased the file size from 4.3 megabytes to over 52 megabytes! The output file displayed correctly in Okular. I do not have any idea how Therion produces PDF files. It probably uses some combination of TeX and GhostScript to get it done. The new feature may be as simple as adding some additional parameters to the command lines that call the external programs. Let the discussion begin! :-) -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] North arrow and magnetic declination
Thanks, Bruce and Benedikt. That answers my question and satisfies my curiosity. I am well aware of how Therion processes declination when going through the survey data. I take the trouble to make sure every set of survey data has a date associated with it so that the declinations can be properly calculated. As for putting declination on the map ... I have never done that and do not plan to start. I think it is not useful to have it on a map. In 20 years (or whenever) it will be wrong. It is better to just leave it off. One of my cave mapping friends always takes the trouble to make his north arrow indicate both geographic and magnetic north. He and I have not discussed this feature of his maps, so I do not know what his reasoning is. He is not a Therion user. -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 3:41:06 PM CDT Benedikt Hallinger wrote: > It is map compile time and it shows the declination for the day of map > compilation: > > As i understood, when compiling the map all directions are converted to > geographic north, because the station positions are georeferenced to the > coorindates. There, the date of the survey is taken into account to get > the corrected coordinates based on the magnetic model and the > location/survey date. > > Aligning the map to geographic north and putting out the magnetic north > is just an info "today the declination is this-and-that degrees". > Aligning the map to magnethic north makes that info crucial to be able > to calculate geographic north. > > > Am 2020-05-27 22:28, schrieb Bruce Mutton: > > Hi Bill > > > > I played with Dirk's north arrow back in 2018, making my own > > adjustments, and came to the conclusion that the magnetic north > > reported is that at the date of map compilation. Looking at my > > comments in my metapost I am not absolutely convinced however. > > Regardless, the reporting of a magnetic north direction needs to be > > accompanied by the date and location to avoid confusion. Dirk's north > > arrow, and my variation, both report the date, so we have that > > covered, and Therion uses the 'centre' of the map as the location. > > > > It is somewhat relevant in New Zealand. The magnetic deviation is > > approximately 20 degrees and has varied 2 or 3 degrees over my > > lifetime, and it varies by a similar amount across our caving regions. > > There are surveys that span three decades. > > > > The only time I have encountered a problem with plan maps in Therion > > related to magnetic deviation is when a recent survey is added, and > > the compiling software version pre-dates that survey (geomagnetic > > model cuts out prior to the survey date). In this circumstance > > Therion sets the magnetic deviation to zero and does not report the > > error, or reports it as something unrelated. > > > > Bruce > > > > From: Therion On Behalf Of Bill Gee > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 01:51 > > To: Therion Mail List > > Subject: [Therion] North arrow and magnetic declination > > > > Hello everyone - > > > > I was looking at some of the sample code on the wiki for alternate > > north arrows. At least two of them display both geographic north and > > magnetic north. Those are northarrow4 and northarrow4a, both by Dirk > > Peinelt. > > > > My question is this: What date is used when calculating the offset > > angle for the magnetic north arrow? > > > > This is especially relevant for caves that have been surveyed over a > > period of years. The declination changes from year to year, and > > sometimes more often than that. There are at least four possibilities: > > > > 1) The date of the first survey. > > > > 2) The date of the most recent survey. > > > > 3) A date about half-way between the first and last surveys. This > > assumes that the declination change is somewhat linear over time. > > > > 4) The date the map is compiled. > > > > Does anyone know which date is used? > > > > For me this is mostly academic. I am just curious! I have never used a > > north arrow that shows both geographic and magnetic north. Most of the > > maps I make are for caves in Missouri. The magnetic declination is > > less than 1 degree. It is almost irrelevant here. > > > > Thanks! > > > > -- > > > > Bill Gee > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] North arrow and magnetic declination
Hello everyone - I was looking at some of the sample code on the wiki for alternate north arrows. At least two of them display both geographic north and magnetic north. Those are northarrow4 and northarrow4a, both by Dirk Peinelt. My question is this: What date is used when calculating the offset angle for the magnetic north arrow? This is especially relevant for caves that have been surveyed over a period of years. The declination changes from year to year, and sometimes more often than that. There are at least four possibilities: 1) The date of the first survey. 2) The date of the most recent survey. 3) A date about half-way between the first and last surveys. This assumes that the declination change is somewhat linear over time. 4) The date the map is compiled. Does anyone know which date is used? For me this is mostly academic. I am just curious! I have never used a north arrow that shows both geographic and magnetic north. Most of the maps I make are for caves in Missouri. The magnetic declination is less than 1 degree. It is almost irrelevant here. Thanks! -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] For JM Begley - Rebuild for Fedora 32
I noticed a few minutes ago that Jim Begley's COPR repository has a new package for Therion 5.5.0. I tried it on my Fedora 32 test computer. Worked like a champ! Thanks, Jim! I also installed it on my main production system, still Fedora 31. It works there, too. -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 11:19:37 AM CDT James Begley wrote: > Hi Bill, > > Unfortunately F32 has moved to proj v6, which has a number of fairly > significant changes associated with it. Therion support for proj v6 > appears to be a bit of a work in progress, but I'm trying to pick out the > commits that are required to get it working. It might take a few days > though :( > > Cheers, > James > > On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 17:08, Bill Gee wrote: > > > If it is not already in progress ... The Therion package in JM Begley's > > COPR repository needs to be rebuilt so it works on Fedora 32. When I try to > > run the upgrade from F31 to F32, it gives me this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Problem 3: package therion-5.4.4-2.fc31.x86_64 requires > > libproj.so.13()(64bit), but none of the providers can be installed > > > > - proj-5.2.0-5.fc31.x86_64 does not belong to a distupgrade repository > > > > - problem with installed package therion-5.4.4-2.fc31.x86_64 > > > > > > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > -- > > > > Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] For JM Begley - Rebuild for Fedora 32
No worries, mate! It's not like I have a huge need to use Therion right now. All my mapping projects are up to date, and no more data will be coming in for some months. The machine I tried the upgrade on is a test system. If I get impatient enough, I can always uninstall Therion. And besides - There were other applications showing similar problems. Therion is not the only victim. Sometimes I feel like the vulture in the classic Far Side panel. The vulture says to his friend "Patience my ass! I'm gonna kill something." -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 11:19:37 AM CDT James Begley wrote: > Hi Bill, > > Unfortunately F32 has moved to proj v6, which has a number of fairly > significant changes associated with it. Therion support for proj v6 > appears to be a bit of a work in progress, but I'm trying to pick out the > commits that are required to get it working. It might take a few days > though :( > > Cheers, > James > > On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 at 17:08, Bill Gee wrote: > > > If it is not already in progress ... The Therion package in JM Begley's > > COPR repository needs to be rebuilt so it works on Fedora 32. When I try to > > run the upgrade from F31 to F32, it gives me this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Problem 3: package therion-5.4.4-2.fc31.x86_64 requires > > libproj.so.13()(64bit), but none of the providers can be installed > > > > - proj-5.2.0-5.fc31.x86_64 does not belong to a distupgrade repository > > > > - problem with installed package therion-5.4.4-2.fc31.x86_64 > > > > > > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > -- > > > > Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] For JM Begley - Rebuild for Fedora 32
If it is not already in progress ... The Therion package in JM Begley's COPR repository needs to be rebuilt so it works on Fedora 32. When I try to run the upgrade from F31 to F32, it gives me this: Problem 3: package therion-5.4.4-2.fc31.x86_64 requires libproj.so.13()(64bit), but none of the providers can be installed - proj-5.2.0-5.fc31.x86_64 does not belong to a distupgrade repository - problem with installed package therion-5.4.4-2.fc31.x86_64 = Thanks! -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Therion/loch crashes in sid (issue #158)
I also have this problem. I am running Fedora, and have seen this for about the last 6 months on both Fedora 30 and 31. It happens on computers with nVidia, Intel and VirtualBox display drivers. Aven works fine. -- Bill Gee On Thursday, December 5, 2019 5:19:12 AM CST Benedikt Hallinger wrote: > Hi Olly, > i hope you can help me out with issue #158 > (https://github.com/therion/therion/issues/158) > > I am fiddling around in hope to get my loch viewer working again. > It worked in the past but then decided after a debian update to cease > functioning because of failing glx context. > > I now have the impression, maybe wxWidgets is the cause. The glx context is > fine, other X applications can successfully establish 3D perfomance and glx > debug commands also tell me „ok“. > > I habe seen that there is a wxWidgets 3.1.4 out there. Maybe this could solve > my issue? > > Can you please make me an updated debian package (or tell me how i can build > it myself)? > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Colouring an elevation based on surveys that are not being displayed
Hmmm... OK, one more WILD idea: Print the colored map as an atlas. There are a lot of parameters that go into generating an atlas. I suspect with some playing around you could get somewhat close to getting the portion of the cave you want on one page of the atlas. >From there it is a simple matter to extract one page from a PDF file and make >it into a new file. I was not anticipating that anyone but you would need ImageMagick. I thought the use case was that you would generate and distribute the image files, and everyone else would simply admire your handiwork! :-) -- Bill Gee On Monday, December 2, 2019 3:08:41 PM CST Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion wrote: > > It is quite easy to turn a PDF into a JPG, especially on Linux. Once > > that is done, then any decent photo editor can crop it. The legend will > > be a problem. I suppose you could crop out two sections (the legend and > > the cave portion you want) and paste them into a single image. > > Thanks for the suggestion. > > For me, this is all very easy indeed, and if it were only me that > mattered, I would probably go down this route (as I have done with > wkhtmltopdf to get a modified cavelist into a survey). Even removing the > legend part is very easy with the various Therion options. But my > intention is to be able to share my surveys, source and all (they are > going to be one of the open source licences). Sadly, I cannot expect > another user to have to install and configure ImageMagick, and make > adjustments when adding new cave passage to a survey which shifts the > positions of things. > > This is why I am hoping for a solution that works entirely within > Therion, if at all possible. > > Still hoping for "altitude-relative caveMP@cave", which would be so much > easier for both my use case, and the use cases that I can see others > wanting :) > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Colouring an elevation based on surveys that are not being displayed
Regarding the map-image: As far as I know, Therion will not produce a JPG file. However ... It is quite easy to turn a PDF into a JPG, especially on Linux. Once that is done, then any decent photo editor can crop it. The legend will be a problem. I suppose you could crop out two sections (the legend and the cave portion you want) and paste them into a single image. On Linux you need the ImageMagick package. Most distributions include it as a base item. With that you use the "convert" command: convert -density 300 -rotate 90 infile.pdf outfile.jpg -density sets the dots-per-inch in the output file. -rotate rotates the image 90 degrees before saving. Convert has hundreds of options Spend some time with the man page. There is a Windows version of ImageMagick. -- Bill Gee On Monday, December 2, 2019 2:12:57 PM CST Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion wrote: > Hi folks, > > When you colour a survey by depth (color map-fg altitude), it colours it > based on the scraps that have been selected. This is normally useful. > > When you produce an output with only one part of the survey (eg. a > zoomed-in section of a more complex part of the survey), however, it > would be more useful to be able to keep it the same colour as it was in > the larger survey, so that a viewer can quickly see which part of the > cave they are looking at, and see that the colours match. (My own > use-case is different, but the solution would be the same.) > > Is there, for example, a way to say this: > > layout local > color map-fg altitude > endlayout > source "cave.th" > select subsectio...@subsection.cave > altitude-relative caveMP@cave > export map -proj plan -layout plan -o "cave.pdf" > > Alternatively, is there a way to add scraps belonging to the highest > points and lowest points into the map, but not have them render, while > still being used for altitude colouring (this seems like a hack rather > than being a dedicated solution). > > Alternatively (and I know this will seem a little out of place here, but > it is an alternative solution for what I need), is there a way to import > a map-image, and crop it to only include a portion of the image? > > Cheers! > > Tarquin > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: New symbols
Rodrigo, you are indeed spoiling me! The notwheelchair symbol is exactly what I had in mind. Many thanks! When you said "later", I though maybe next week. I need to study your MetaPost code. I have defined a dozen or so symbols, but none with the image method that you are using. -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 4:16:20 PM CST Rodrigo Severo via Therion wrote: > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 4:39 PM, Bill Gee > wrote: > > > One more thought occurred to me just now ... The cave where I want to use > > the wheelchair symbol has parts of the tour which are NOT accessible due to > > stairs. How much trouble would it be to create a version of the wheelchair > > symbol with a red slashed circle on it? Call it notwheelchair, perhaps. > > > > > > > > https://www.compliancesigns.com/signs/No-Wheelchair-Access has a picture of > > what I have in mind. Text is not needed for the cave symbol. > > I wonder if I'm spoiling you :) > > Here it is. > > > > Regards, > > Rodrigo > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: New symbols
One more thought occurred to me just now ... The cave where I want to use the wheelchair symbol has parts of the tour which are NOT accessible due to stairs. How much trouble would it be to create a version of the wheelchair symbol with a red slashed circle on it? Call it notwheelchair, perhaps. https://www.compliancesigns.com/signs/No-Wheelchair-Access has a picture of what I have in mind. Text is not needed for the cave symbol. -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 8:59:45 AM CST Rodrigo Severo via Therion wrote: > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:04 AM, Bill Gee > wrote: > > > That does give me an idea for another symbol, though. A generic wheelchair > > symbol to designate parts of a cave as handicap-accessible would be useful. > > I am working on the map of a commercial cave which has a lot of paved > > trail. Most of their commercial tour is accessible to wheelchair users. > > And because I'm happy that the symbols will be incorporated in Therion, here > is an updated version of the files with a new "wheelchair" point symbol. > > > Rodrigo > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: New symbols
Hi Rodrigo - Nice! I tried a couple of these symbols on my map. The wheelchair and danger symbols work perfectly. Thanks! -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 8:59:45 AM CST Rodrigo Severo via Therion wrote: > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:04 AM, Bill Gee > wrote: > > > That does give me an idea for another symbol, though. A generic wheelchair > > symbol to designate parts of a cave as handicap-accessible would be useful. > > I am working on the map of a commercial cave which has a lot of paved > > trail. Most of their commercial tour is accessible to wheelchair users. > > And because I'm happy that the symbols will be incorporated in Therion, here > is an updated version of the files with a new "wheelchair" point symbol. > > > Rodrigo > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] New symbols
Thanks! I will take a look at the symbol already posted. It saves me the effort of doing one myself. A shrine! I never thought of that. A pair of crutches makes sense in that context. That does give me an idea for another symbol, though. A generic wheelchair symbol to designate parts of a cave as handicap-accessible would be useful. I am working on the map of a commercial cave which has a lot of paved trail. Most of their commercial tour is accessible to wheelchair users. -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 6:49:34 AM CST Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion wrote: > > I have some comments on your symbols. First of all - Very nice! I see > > considerable time expended, and it shows in the results. > > Totally agree, some really good stuff in there. That cracked mud looks > awesome :) > > > A few of these symbols would be useful to me. The symbols for danger, > > cracked mud (both point and area) and masonry have immediate application > > in some maps I am working on. > > If it helps, I do already have a p_u_warning on the Metapost section of > the wiki. > https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/metapost#warning_triangle > Same idea, different style. (And I have a newer version to update it > with...) > > > What is "ex-voto"? The symbol you created looks to me like a pair of > > syringes. That is not something commonly found in a cave! > > A shrine. I think they are supposed to be crutches - if you are > disabled, you might leave an offering at the shrine? > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] New symbols
Hi Rodrigo - I have some comments on your symbols. First of all - Very nice! I see considerable time expended, and it shows in the results. A few of these symbols would be useful to me. The symbols for danger, cracked mud (both point and area) and masonry have immediate application in some maps I am working on. The label on your electric light symbol is spelled wrong. Why are there walkway symbols both with and without a human figure? That seems redundant to me. What do you use the plus, minus and plus/minus symbols for? What is "ex-voto"? The symbol you created looks to me like a pair of syringes. That is not something commonly found in a cave! -- Bill Gee On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:08:01 PM CST Rodrigo Severo via Therion wrote: > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 4:36 PM, Bruce Mutton wrote: > > > Rodrigo > > > > I think your first suggestion is a good one. > > > > You could propose to add them to the source code at > > https://github.com/therion/therion I guess. I have not yet braved > > contributing via git, but maybe one day, as I also have some symbols to add. > > Certainly. It's just that, right now I ahve them as user defined symbols. I > would have to change a few things so they wuld be Thjerion symbols. I jsut > don't want to have the work of doing these changes if there is no interest in > including them as Therion symbols. > > > > Do you have a graphic example of your symbols? > > Sure. Here it is: > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vXQg23eaPnG1XiQvohGY3Yhk6S7KxZCz > > > Regards, > > Rodrigo Severo > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset
Hi Bruce and Martin - WooHoo! I got it to work. The composite map with all four caves compiles and shows offsets the way I want. Thanks you VERY MUCH for your assistance! I had to rename some of the subsidiary maps to avoid name conflicts, but that was no big deal. The major part was Bruce's suggestions from below regarding the layout of the BigCavernsRanch thconfig and .th files. I wound up with BigCavernRanch.th looking like this: = encoding utf-8 map BCRPlanMap AllieMainPlan@BCRSurvey MillCreekMainCaveMap@BCRSurvey SRPMainPlan@BCRSurvey CascadeMainPlan@BCRSurvey endmap survey BCRSurvey -title "Big Cavern Ranch" # Name the input caves input ../AllieSpringCaveSurvey/AllieSpringCave.th input ../MillCreekCaveSurvey/MillCreekCave.th input ../ShiftyRockPit/ShiftyRockPit.th input ../CascadeCaverns/CascadeCaverns.th equate AA41a@ShiftyRockPit DR23@AllieSpringCave equate AA51@ShiftyRockPit CC7@AllieSpringCave endsurvey == And the first few lines of thconfig: === encoding utf-8 source BigCavernRanch.th input ../TherionMasterFiles/CustomSymbolsCode.txt select BCRPlanMap # This layout is for the main 2D map, all on one page layout basics language en_US units imperial === Regarding the strange offsets of [0 0 ft] - That is intentional. If I did not do the offset with "above" or "below", then the transparency effects did not work. It was not clear which passage was above or below. They were all mashed together as if they were one layer. A true offset was not, in my judgement, necessary. The passages that I DO want to offset are done because they overlay significant stretches of other passage. Even with transparency effects the result is a jumbled up mess that is near impossible to visualize. The most significant of these is the Top of Texas passage in the far north part of Allie Spring Cave. There are nearly 300 feet (about 90 meters) of passage which is never more than 16 inches high and is often less than 12 inches. That is some nasty, difficult survey. At least it is dry with a soft clay floor! And one last question, just because I am curious: Does the naming convention of "name@place" extend to more than one layer? Is something like "name@cave@space" possible? Could I write something like "AllieMainPlan@AllieSpringCave@BCRPlanMap"? -- Bill Gee On Friday, November 15, 2019 1:42:14 AM CST Bruce Mutton wrote: > Hi Bill > > I have mashed up something with the old parts of your dataset, plus whatever > new bits you posted recently, then commented out bits until it would compile. > > Then I added some random offsets, and created an overview BCRPlanMap (with > just two of the caves) as attached. > > Took me a little while, as I’m not used to the structure you use, but it > seems to work just fine. > > > > > > Extract of AllieSprings with offsets plotting OK > > > > > > First few lines of Allie thconfig > > encoding utf-8 > > source AllieSpringCave.th > > # input ../TherionMasterFiles/CustomSymbolsCode.txt > > select AllieMainPlan > > > > > > # This layout is for the main 2D map, all on one page > > layout basics > > units imperial > > scale-bar 50 feet > > First few lines of AllieSpringCave.th > > encoding utf-8 > > > > map AllieMainPlan -title "Allie Spring Cave (PUL-317) - Plan View" > -projection plan > > # Main passages > > MainPassages@AllieSpringCave > > > > # Upper section near Blue Hole > > FB7aUpper@AllieSpringCave [50 50 ft] below > > XSidePassage@AllieSpringCave [50 50 ft] below > > > > # Basement area of C survey. Connects to Shifty Rock Pit > > CC1LowerLevel@AllieSpringCave [50 50 ft] below > > > > # Bailout Passage goes under the main passage > > DRLowerLevel@AllieSpringCave [50 50 ft] below > > > > # Upper lead from Texas Dome > > # TopOfTexas@AllieSpringCave [300 100 ft] above > > endmap > > > > survey AllieSpringCave -title "Allie Spring Cave" > > > > # Contains the cave entrance and first part of water crawl > > #Scraps Entrance1 and Entrance2 > > input AllieSpringCaveEntrance1.th2 > > #Scrap Entrance3 > > input AllieSpringCaveEntrance2.th2 > > > > > > Extract of Big Cavern Ranch with offsets plotting OK > > > > > > First few lines of BigCavernRanch thconfig below (and BigCavernRanch attached) > > encoding utf-8 > > source BigCavernRanch.th > > # input ../TherionMasterFiles/CustomSymbolsCode.txt > > # select AllieMainP
Re: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset
Hi Martin - I tried a few more things based on your suggestions. The first thing I had to learn was how to get the Survey Structure and Map Structure boxes to populate. The secret is to run the therion compiler from inside xtherion. I have been running it straight from the command line. Since Big Cavern Ranch has no drawings, I did not see any reason to bother with xtherion. The attached file "selection_002.jpg" shows the survey and map structure boxes. These both look reasonably sane to me. I have attached the thconfig and .th file that were used to generate this. I ran this also with a map defined in the .th file. The result was another item in Map Structure under "plan which was the name of the map I defined. In that map were all of the pieces that are also present the other levels under "plan". The thconfig file has a line "select AllieMainPlan". I changed that to "select AllieMainPlan@all" and recompiled. No difference. The resulting map has all four caves and no offsets. The map structure as reported by xtherion did not change. -- Bill Gee On Thursday, November 14, 2019 8:33:22 AM CST Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > > > 14. 11. 2019 v 14:38, Bill Gee : > > > > I am shooting blindly in the dark here. What is the hierarchy of > > namespaces? Do surveys contain maps, or do maps contain surveys? Can maps > > contain maps? Can surveys contain surveys? Can a map contain a survey > > which in turn contains a map? > > Any survey-endsurvey structure is a name space. > > Maps structure is independent from structure of surveys but it allways belong > to a name space of enclosing survey-endsurvey. > > So in your file AllieSpringCave.th <http://alliespringcave.th/> there is name > space AllieSpringCave, but map AllieMainPlan is outside it. After you input > the file AllieSpringCave.th <http://alliespringcave.th/> into your file > BigCavernRanch.th <http://bigcavernranch.th/> inside name space all, it > become part of "name space all". > > > > > If surveys can contain maps, and maps can contain surveys, then how do you > > know what the top of the namespace is? > > Name space is each structure survey-endsurvey. > > > Using Allie Spring Cave as an example, it looks to me like the top of the > > name space is a map called AllieMainPlan. > > This map AllieMainPlan is outside the name space "survey > AllieSpringCave-endsurvey". It is reason you should call all subsidiary maps > from name space AllieSpringCave by @AllieSpringCave. > > > This map contains seven subsidiary maps and is defined outside of a > > survey/endsurvey block. But all of those subsidiary maps are defined > > inside a survey/endsurvey block. So does AllieMainPlan contain the survey > > at the second level, and the survey contains the subsidiary maps at the > > third level? If true, then why does it not show up that way in xtherion? > > Any command input is only copy/paste piece of plaint text. So if you input > ../AllieSpringCaveSurvey/AllieSpringCave.th <http://alliespringcave.th/> into > name space "survey all-endsurvey“, map AllieMainPlan become object in this > name space and name space "survey AllieSpringCave-endsurvey“ become enclosed > name space. > > > Martin - In a different email you mentioned that MainPassages is not part > > of AllieSpringCave. I don't understand that. AllieSpringCave is the name > > of a survey/endsurvey block, and inside that block are seven map/endmap > > blocks. One of those map blocks is MainPassages. It seems to me that the > > survey/endsurvey block contains the map/endmap blocks and therefore the > > names they define should be part of the survey namespace. > > > I was probably totaly wrong. Map AllieMainPlan is not part of name space > "survey AllieSpringCave-endsurvey" > > What will Therion produce from your original files if you in thconfig select > only „select AllieMainPlan@all“? > > Or may you try to add that select command by doubleclick on map AllieMainPlan > in structure of maps in right side panel? > > May you publish screenshot of that rightside panel with structure of maps, > please? > > Martin > > > > encoding utf-8 # Bring in subsidiary files survey TestSurvey -title "Big Cavern Ranch" # Name the input caves input ../AllieSpringCaveSurvey/AllieSpringCave.th input ../MillCreekCaveSurvey/MillCreekCave.th input ../ShiftyRockPit/ShiftyRockPit.th input ../CascadeCaverns/CascadeCaverns.th equate AA41a@ShiftyRockPit DR23@AllieSpringCave equate AA51@ShiftyRockPit CC7@AllieSpringCave endsurvey encod
Re: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset
This morning I tried several things: 1) I modified the BigCavernRanch.th file to look like this: map MapGroup -projection plan AllieMainPlan endmap and then recompiled. No error was produced. The resulting map contains all four caves. Offsets are not offset. As far as I can tell, that entire map/endmap block is totally ignored. 2) I modified thconfig for BigCavernRanch. I added select AllieMainPlan as the fourth line in the file. Therion complained that the object AllieMainPlan could not be found. It proceeded to compile a map with all four caves. I tried the same modification except using the name of a map defined in BigCavernRanch.th. Same result - an error about a missing object and a final map that includes all four caves. 3) I modified BigCavernRanch.th with this line survey TestSurvey -title "Big Cavern Ranch" Therion compiled without error. The resulting map has all four caves and no offsets. 4) I modified BigCavernRanch.th. I moved the "map MapGroup/endmap" block so it is not within the survey/endsurvey block. Therion issues an error "Object does not exist - AllieMainPlan" and immediately quits. That seems odd to me. The AllieSpringCave.th file has a map/endmap block that is outside the survey/endsurvey block, and it does NOT complain about any of those objects missing. 5) I modified BigCavernRanch.th so that it does not contain a map/endmap block. Therion did not produce an error. The compiled map includes all four caves and no offsets. I am shooting blindly in the dark here. What is the hierarchy of namespaces? Do surveys contain maps, or do maps contain surveys? Can maps contain maps? Can surveys contain surveys? Can a map contain a survey which in turn contains a map? If surveys can contain maps, and maps can contain surveys, then how do you know what the top of the namespace is? Using Allie Spring Cave as an example, it looks to me like the top of the name space is a map called AllieMainPlan. This map contains seven subsidiary maps and is defined outside of a survey/endsurvey block. But all of those subsidiary maps are defined inside a survey/endsurvey block. So does AllieMainPlan contain the survey at the second level, and the survey contains the subsidiary maps at the third level? If true, then why does it not show up that way in xtherion? Martin - In a different email you mentioned that MainPassages is not part of AllieSpringCave. I don't understand that. AllieSpringCave is the name of a survey/endsurvey block, and inside that block are seven map/endmap blocks. One of those map blocks is MainPassages. It seems to me that the survey/endsurvey block contains the map/endmap blocks and therefore the names they define should be part of the survey namespace. -- Bill Gee On Thursday, November 14, 2019 1:45:38 AM CST Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > > If I open the BigCavernRanch files in xtherion and then look at the boxes > > for survey structure and map structure, they are completely empty. > > You may see that structure only after successful compilation. > > > > 14. 11. 2019 v 3:46, Bill Gee : > > > > I tried creating a map statement in the BigCavernRanch .th file which > > mentioned the four main maps, then doing a "select" on that map in the > > thconfig. That produced errors saying that objects did not exist. > > > > What will happen if you try select only AllieMainPlan in your thconfig? Map > „AllieMainPlan" is a part of the "all“ name-space so it should work. > > Just a note: in such complicated projects I prefer to use extensions for > names of surveys, scraps, maps, for example > > map AllieMainPlan.map > scrap Entrance1.scrap > survey all.survey > > Names of objects are a bit longer, but later it is clear, what the name of > object means. > > Martin > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset
Hi Bruce and everyone else - It is time to revisit this topic. We had our big survey weekend a few days ago, and now I am trying to get the group map to display the offsets. There is something bloody obvious that I am missing. Attached are three sample files. The thconfig file is from the group map BigCavernRanch. I also included the .th file from BigCavernRanch, and the .th file from one of the individual caves. This set of files compiles without error but the offsets are NOT displayed. I tried creating a map statement in the BigCavernRanch .th file which mentioned the four main maps, then doing a "select" on that map in the thconfig. That produced errors saying that objects did not exist. If I open the BigCavernRanch files in xtherion and then look at the boxes for survey structure and map structure, they are completely empty. The individual cave maps all compile correctly and display offsets the way they should. The survey and map structure boxes in xtherion are not empty. -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 1:17:46 PM CST Bruce Mutton wrote: > Bill > > As Martin suggested, you just need to define a top-level map, and select > that for output. > > > > Here is a snip of a top level map that is part of a set of maps I have used > to highlight chronology in atlas outputs. > > > > map 2009-2011PlanMap \ > > -title "MiddleEarth 2009-2011 Plan" \ > > -projection plan > > preview above 2017-PlanMap > > preview above 2014-2015-PlanMap > > preview above 2013-PlanMap > > preview above 2012-PlanMap > > > > #Deck Extension > > DB-DeckExtensionPlan@MiddleEarth > > DD-SandyWayPlan@MiddleEarth > > DE-BermudaTriPlan@MiddleEarth > > DF-DeckEndPlan@MiddleEarth > > DO-UpperBermudaPlan@MiddleEarth > > IZ-wotsumpPlan@MiddleEarth > > > > preview below 1995-2008PlanMap > > preview below 1983-1994PlanMap > > preview below 1979-1982PlanMap > > preview below 1974-1978PlanMap > > endmap > > > > Your relationship of scraps and maps to surveys is different to what I use, > so the namespace relationship will be different. > > The first time, you may need to figure it out yourself, but once you have > done that you can compile your project, then in the compiler window, double > click on the component map to select it with its correct path. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > From: Therion On Behalf Of Bill Gee > Sent: Thursday, 31 October 2019 03:37 > To: therion@speleo.sk > Subject: [Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset > > > > Hi Bruce - > > > > Yes, I am now referring to PDF outputs. It has not bothered me enough to > chase down the solution. I am pretty sure there is some combination of map > and select statements that will do the trick. The last time I thought much > about this, the problem I came up with was how to tell the BigCavernRanch.th > file the names of the various maps in the other .th files. I don't know how > the scope of the name spaces works in this kind of configuration. > > > > The issue will probably become more annoying in a few weeks. We are planning > a major survey expedition to these caves for Nov 10-11, and I will have a > lot of new data to work with. The passage that I want to offset is > particularly difficult, less than 12 inches high for most of its known > length, so there are very few people who are willing to do survey in there. > At least it is in dry clay! No water to deal with. > > > > The old maps you have may not include this passage. It takes off from the > top of Texas Dome, which is in the far north part of Allie Spring Cave. We > call the passage "Top of Texas". It runs pretty much directly above other > passages. Even with transparency it makes for a rather confused presentation > unless it is offset to the side. > > > > There is one feature I have found that does not work. . One of my four > > > maps has a section where two passages run pretty much the same way, one > > > directly above the other. In the single-cave map I handled this by setting > > > the upper passage off to the side. That does not come through to the group > > > map. The two passages are drawn on top of each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > I presume you are now referring to exported map pdf outputs? > > > > > > I was looking for something that fitted that description in an old copy of > > > your Big Cavern Ranch project that I got from one of your posts
[Therion] Multiple caves on one map with an offset
Hi Bruce - Yes, I am now referring to PDF outputs. It has not bothered me enough to chase down the solution. I am pretty sure there is some combination of map and select statements that will do the trick. The last time I thought much about this, the problem I came up with was how to tell the BigCavernRanch.th file the names of the various maps in the other .th files. I don't know how the scope of the name spaces works in this kind of configuration. The issue will probably become more annoying in a few weeks. We are planning a major survey expedition to these caves for Nov 10-11, and I will have a lot of new data to work with. The passage that I want to offset is particularly difficult, less than 12 inches high for most of its known length, so there are very few people who are willing to do survey in there. At least it is in dry clay! No water to deal with. The old maps you have may not include this passage. It takes off from the top of Texas Dome, which is in the far north part of Allie Spring Cave. We call the passage "Top of Texas". It runs pretty much directly above other passages. Even with transparency it makes for a rather confused presentation unless it is offset to the side. -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 2:55:37 AM CDT Bruce Mutton wrote: > > There is one feature I have found that does not work. . One of my four > maps has a section where two passages run pretty much the same way, one > directly above the other. In the single-cave map I handled this by setting > the upper passage off to the side. That does not come through to the group > map. The two passages are drawn on top of each other. > > > > Bill > > I presume you are now referring to exported map pdf outputs? > > I was looking for something that fitted that description in an old copy of > your Big Cavern Ranch project that I got from one of your posts last year, > but didn't find anything. > > In general, if you select and export a map that has offsets defined, they > will be honoured. > > I you do not specifically select a map with the offsets defined, then the > scraps will be plotted in their true position - no offset. I do this > intentionally for overview maps of multiple caves, as offsets at small > scales (1:2,000, 1:10,000) provide a misleading impression of the cave. > > It seems like you have done this as well, perhaps unwittingly. > > Your source BigCavernRanch.th contains a survey named 'all' but there is no > corresponding map defined as far as I can see. Therefore despite each of > those caves referenced having maps defined, they are not used - every scrap > defined is used instead. So no offsets. > > > > >From the Therion Book. > > 'select' > Description: selects objects (surveys and maps) for export. By default, all > survey objects > are selected. If there is no map selected, all scraps belonging to selected > surveys are > selected by default for map export. > > > > You can easily control what is plotted by defining a 'map all' in your > BigCavernRanch.th file (or elsewhere) and then selecting it in your 'all' > thconfig. > > > > Bruce > > > > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Export Multiple Caves to Single KML Model
It wasn't even hard! That is, it was not hard AFTER I figured out how to do it :-) Until then it was a pain ... There is one feature I have found that does not work. It has not annoyed me enough yet to go looking for a solution. One of my four maps has a section where two passages run pretty much the same way, one directly above the other. In the single-cave map I handled this by setting the upper passage off to the side. That does not come through to the group map. The two passages are drawn on top of each other. There is probably some magic I could do with select and map commands to make it happen. -- Bill Gee On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 5:14:00 PM CDT Scott Falkingham wrote: > Thanks for the quick responses. With Bill's examples, I was able to get it > working. > > All I had to do was to switch from sourcing multiple .th files in the > thconfig to sourcing a single master .th file with its own survey that > input the individual .th files in it. Fantastic. > > Scott > > > On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 07:01, Bill Gee wrote: > > > I have done this, and it wasn't even hard! The attached files show how I > > took four separate cave maps and combined them into one. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, October 28, 2019 11:24:21 PM CDT Scott Falkingham wrote: > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > > > > > Is it supported to export a model of multiple caves to a single KML file? > > > > > When I attempt the export, the entrance placemarks of both caves show up, > > > > > but only the first sourced caves centerline is exported. Not only that, > > > > > all of the placemarks are grouped in a single folder. > > > > > > > > > > Conversely, exporting a cave-list of multiple caves to KML works as > > > > > expected, with both caves showing up in individual folders. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Export Multiple Caves to Single KML Model
I have done this, and it wasn't even hard! The attached files show how I took
four separate cave maps and combined them into one.
--
Bill Gee
On Monday, October 28, 2019 11:24:21 PM CDT Scott Falkingham wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> Is it supported to export a model of multiple caves to a single KML file?
> When I attempt the export, the entrance placemarks of both caves show up,
> but only the first sourced caves centerline is exported. Not only that,
> all of the placemarks are grouped in a single folder.
>
> Conversely, exporting a cave-list of multiple caves to KML works as
> expected, with both caves showing up in individual folders.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Scott
>
# Bring in subsidiary files
survey all
# Name the input caves
input ../AllieSpringCaveSurvey/AllieSpringCave.th
input ../MillCreekCaveSurvey/MillCreekCave.th
input ../ShiftyRockPit/ShiftyRockPit.th
input ../CascadeCaverns/CascadeCaverns.th
equate AA42@ShiftyRockPit DR23@AllieSpringCave
equate AA51@ShiftyRockPit CC7@AllieSpringCave
endsurvey
encoding utf-8
source BigCavernRanch.th
input ../TherionMasterFiles/CustomSymbolsCode.txt
# This layout is for the main 2D map, all on one page
layout basics
language en_US
units imperial
scale-bar 100 feet
page-numbers on
north true
rotate 0
symbol-color group centerline [80 20 0]
symbol-color area water [0 0 100]
map-comment "The caves of Big Cavern Ranch, Pulaski County, Missouri"
statistics explo all
legend on
map-header 3 65 w
symbol-set UIS
# Section for PDF properties
doc-author "Bill Gee"
doc-title "The Caves of Big Cavern Ranch"
doc-subject "The Caves of Big Cavern Ranch"
# Section for map photos
# Bring in the custom symbols
copy CustomSymbols
# Reassign names
symbol-assign point gradient AMER
symbol-assign point stalagmite AMER
symbol-assign point stalactite AMER
symbol-assign point pillar AMER
symbol-assign point popcorn AMER
# Set point height symbols to be enclosed in boxes
code metapost
p_label_mode_height:=6;
endcode
endlayout
#
# Main map layout, no special colorizing.
layout mainmapnocolor
copy basics
symbol-show group centerline
debug station-names
scale 1 200
color map-fg [100 86 66]
# Change the size of the legend
code metapost
tmpscale=1.8;
def draw_legend_box =
% Next line controls size of symbol in each symbol table box
currentpicture := currentpicture scaled tmpscale;
% Next line controls size of symbol table box background
clip currentpicture to unitsquare inscale xscaled tmpscale yscaled
tmpscale;
drawoptions();
pickup PenB;
% I think the next line controls the size of each symbol table box
draw unitsquare inscale xscaled tmpscale yscaled tmpscale;
enddef;
%clear the background of the larger legend boxes
def clean_legend_box =
unfill unitsquare inscale xscaled tmpscale yscaled tmpscale;
enddef;
%change the value of inscale to fill the legend boxes
def inscale =
xscaled (legend_scale*tmpscale) yscaled (0.618*legend_scale*tmpscale)
enddef;
endcode
code tex-map
\def\maplayout{
\legendbox{3}{65}{W}{
\def\txtsize{40} % Define the default text size
\legendwidth=50 cm
\legendtextsectionsize={\size[\txtsize]}
\legendtextsize={\size[\txtsize]}
\legendtextheadersize={\size[80]}
\hsize=\legendwidth
\the\legendcontent={\size[\txtsize]}
\the\legendtextsize\ Map generated at \the\time \the\currentdate\medskip
\the\legendtextsize\ Therion version \the\thversion
}
}
endcode
#end of TeX code to change legend size
endlayout
#
# Main map layout with coloring based on elevation
layout mainmapwithcolor
copy basics
symbol-show group centerline
debug station-names
scale 1 200
color map-fg altitude
endlayout
# ##
# Main map scaled for printing
layout mainmapprint
copy basics
scale 1 800
debug off
symbol-hide group centerline
color map-fg [100 86 66]
# Change the size of the legend
code metapost
tmpscale=1.3;
def draw_legend_box =
% Next line controls size of symbol in each symbol table box
currentpicture := currentpicture scaled tmpscale;
% Next line controls size of symbol table box background
clip currentpicture to unitsquare inscale xscaled tmpscale yscaled
tmpscale;
drawoptions();
pickup PenB;
% I think the next line controls the size of each symbol table box
draw unitsquare inscale xscaled tmpscale yscaled tmpscale;
enddef;
%clear the background of the larger legend boxes
def clean_legend_box =
unfill unitsquare inscale xsca
Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems
Hi Martin - Hmmm That is exactly what I am looking for. I dislike taking out a survey shot. Maybe the thing to do is have a different centerline data file for generating this profile. Now that I know why the profile was so messed up, I can consider how to proceed. Thanks for all the advice and the samples. This part of the cave has an additional complication that I will eventually have to deal with. From station G8 there is another passage that goes down to the west. We have not yet surveyed that passage. Depicting its profile is going to be interesting! I will probably start a new profile sketch for it. -- Bill Gee On Saturday, September 7, 2019 3:21:30 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > > > 6. 9. 2019 v 17:41, Bill Gee : > > > > I want one continuous profile extending from OC5a on the left to G14 on the > > right. > > Just commented G14-G1, a bit shorted ends of scraps on station G10 and added > join command. > > Martin > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems
Hi Martin - Thanks! This is much better, but still not what I want. I don't want the profile to fold back on itself at all. I want one continuous profile extending from OC5a on the left to G14 on the right. Is that possible? If I draw them as "projection none", then two questions come up. First, if I put survey stations in the scrap will they be used to scale the drawing? Second, can two (or more) such scraps be joined? -- Bill Gee On Friday, September 6, 2019 10:26:52 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > Hi Bill, > > it looks you have not defined „extend“ of centerline in your centerline data. > > Because extend right is default Therion will extend your stations form OC5a > to the right, but it has to close the loop and there should be the problem. > > Your scrap extended Profile-OC5a-G10 includes stations OC5a to G10, stations > OC5a-G are extended to East but stations C9 and C10 are extended to West. > > Try to divide that loop to two scraps from OC5a to G8 and G8 to G14 and add > extend commands. Not use join commands for first elevation export. > > extend right > OC5a G1 19.6 134 3.0314-3.0 1.0 9.8 18.7 3.5 > G1G2 20.4 13329.0313 -28.0 3.0 6.6 17.3 4.2 > G2G3 21.2 12513.0306 -13.0 2.3 3.0 9.3 6.4 > G3G4 22.660 4.0239-5.0 6.2 2.0 4.8 2.4 > G4G5 4.548 -10.022810.0 2.6 1.7 1.2 0.3 > G5G6 12.3 10118.0281 -18.0 1.5 1.5 7.2 0.3 > G6G7 9.0 127 7.0308-7.0 7.3 16.2 5.1 2.0 > G7G8 10.944-8.0225 8.0 12.8 10.4 4.1 2.3 > extend left > G8G9 8.5 335 -15.015716.0 8.5 27.4 2.7 3.1 > G9G1015.5 307-1.0128.5 1.0 3.4 3.9 0.7 0.8 > G10 G1132.0 267-1.5 88.5 2.0 7.4 5.6 0.5 1.0 > G11 G1221.8 262 0.0 81 0.0 1.7 4.8 1.5 1.4 > G12 G13 5.7 246 6.0 --6.0 1.8 3.0 1.0 2.0 > G13 G1413.9 236 -61.0 5762.0 - - - - > extend hide > G14 G1 5.9 - -32.022032.0 - - - - > > flags splay > G1G1a12.9 200-6.0 - 6.0 20.0 20.0 17.3 4.2 > G7G7a18.4 24912.0 - -12.0 10.4 12.8 4.1 2.3 > flags not splay > > Add command select to your thconfig file > > source StarkCaverns.th > > select StarkCavernsProfiles@StarkCavernsProfiles > > > # Load the Metapost code for custom symbols > > and add to scrap G10-G14 (G8-G14) parameter -flip horizontal, because in > output it should be flipped. > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Extended profile problems
Hi Martin - This is a commercial cave - there are no secrets! The attached ZIP file has the thconfig, .th, .th2 and centerline data files for the whole project. -- Bill Gee On Friday, September 6, 2019 8:50:38 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > Bill, > > may you publish all your data? Or send it privately? > > Martin > > > 6. 9. 2019 v 15:47, Bill Gee : > > > > Hello everyone - > > > > I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years > > because it is such a pain to do in Therion. The time has come where I need > > to start adding them to several maps in progress. > > > > In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given > > them a viewpoint angle. The profile I am working on now will not work for > > that because it basically goes around in a circle. There is no viewpoint > > angle where the entire profile lays out in a line. The plan view is a loop. > > > > So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended". Holy cow, that > > makes a mess of things! Take a look at the attached file. This is so > > distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing! The > > stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle. The > > upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times > > larger than it should be. > > > > What am I missing??? Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap > > should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch? How should I > > be drawing > > > > Maybe I should completely skip using elevations. I can probably make them > > work by drawing as cross-sections. Indeed, that might be easier to fit > > onto the final map. I think the only real problem there is whether > > cross-section scraps can be joined. > > > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > <> ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Extended profile problems
Hello everyone - I have not been putting elevation profiles on my maps for several years because it is such a pain to do in Therion. The time has come where I need to start adding them to several maps in progress. In the past I have defined the profile scraps as type "elevation" and given them a viewpoint angle. The profile I am working on now will not work for that because it basically goes around in a circle. There is no viewpoint angle where the entire profile lays out in a line. The plan view is a loop. So for this one I defined the scrap as type "extended". Holy cow, that makes a mess of things! Take a look at the attached file. This is so distorted it is hard to figure out how it relates to the drawing! The stations in this profile go about 3/4 of the way around the circle. The upper half of the resulting map is upside down and magnified about 5 times larger than it should be. What am I missing??? Do I correctly understand that an "extended" scrap should draw just the way it appears on the original sketch? How should I be drawing Maybe I should completely skip using elevations. I can probably make them work by drawing as cross-sections. Indeed, that might be easier to fit onto the final map. I think the only real problem there is whether cross-section scraps can be joined. -- Bill Gee StarkCavernsElevations.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Problems with Compass PLT files
Hello everyone - I have been working with the developer of a cave viewing program called "Cave Breakout". The web site is https://breakoutcavesurvey.com/ This is a Java application which, among other things, can import Compass PLT files for viewing and searching. It works well on Linux as long as the display driver supports OpenGL3. I am not a Compass user, so I generate PLT files from Therion using an "export" command, something like this: export model -fmt compass -enable all -wall-source all -o MosbyCave.plt After a few go-arounds, Cave Breakout will now successfully read and display simple PLT files from Therion. However, it appears there are some deeper issues relating to how Therion generates a PLT file. 1) The PLT file that Therion generates, even a simple one like Mosby Cave (only 13 stations and 163 feet) will not open in Compass Viewer. The error message is "Invalid numeric input". 2) Complex PLT files from Therion will open in Cave Breakout, but the display is all messed up. The specific file that shows this contains four caves and has some duplicate station names among the caves. The PLT file from any one of the caves will display correctly, but the combined file is a big mess. One of the issues that Cave Breakout has to deal with is very large numbers. The developer told me that the Therion file had easting numbers in the millions. I don't know if that is normal or not - but apparently Compass does not do that. He did not mention the northing numbers, but I suspect they are also very large. Has anyone here done much work with Compass PLT files? Am I missing something in the export command? -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] How to calculate the volume of a cave
Update: After poking around a bit, I discovered that Compass will calculate cave volume based on centerline and LRUD data. Doing that means I have to run a Windows computer (ugh!) and type in the survey data twice (double ugh!) Fortunately the cave for which I need this is small. Can this feature be added as a suggestion for future versions of Survex? Compass does quite a few other calculations. For example, it will calculate the volume of the bounding box. A sample report is attached. It is nice that the report is in both meters and feet. -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 10:49:32 AM CDT chris pennos wrote: > Hi, I am also interested on volume calculation! > > Please keep me updated it! > > > On 11 Aug 2019, at 22:22, Benedikt Hallinger wrote: > > > > It would be awesome if the compiler could derive this fron the loch model > > and write it to the statistics block (the one where also loop closure info > > and total west/east and north/south dimwnsions are returned) when compiling > > this, as the neccessary data should be already present? > > > >> Am 09.08.2019 um 14:58 schrieb Bill Gee : > >> > >> Hello everyone - > >> > >> What tools can be used to calculate the volume of a cave based on center > >> line and LRUD data? > >> > >> I found an email from Martin Sluka from about 4 years ago describing how > >> to use Loch to export a .lox file in other formats, then run that file > >> through CloudCompare or ParaView. The process looks very complex to me, > >> and besides - Loch does not run on my computers, so there is no way for me > >> to generate an export. > >> > >> As far as I can tell, Survex does not have a way to calculate volume. > >> > >> Could it be done with a KML file and Google Earth? > >> > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > MosbyCaveStatistics.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] How to calculate the volume of a cave
Hello everyone - What tools can be used to calculate the volume of a cave based on center line and LRUD data? I found an email from Martin Sluka from about 4 years ago describing how to use Loch to export a .lox file in other formats, then run that file through CloudCompare or ParaView. The process looks very complex to me, and besides - Loch does not run on my computers, so there is no way for me to generate an export. As far as I can tell, Survex does not have a way to calculate volume. Could it be done with a KML file and Google Earth? -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Placing part of a map below another
Hi Tarquin - The "select" statement in the thconfig file turned out to be the answer. I have never used that before, so I don't understand why my other maps with overlying passage have worked. However, it took care of this situation. In this case I need to map a map of the lower level because it will contain far more than one scrap. Right now there is only 50 feet or so of the stream mapped, but eventually it will be hundreds of feet, and it will weave back and forth under the main passage. Just to make life even more complicated, there is an upper level passage that will get stacked in here too! When we get done there will be at least three levels. Thanks! -- Bill Gee On Friday, July 26, 2019 11:46:44 AM CDT Tarquin Wilton-Jones via Therion wrote: > Hi Bill, > > > When I set up the map in the .th file, I created a map for "MainPassages" > > and another for "LowerStream". > > > You don't normally need to do this. You can just put the two scraps into > the same map like this: > > map outermap > mainpassagesscrap > break > lowerstreamscrap > endmap > > This will display the lower stream's scrap below the main passages > scrap. Or if you want to keep your two maps, then this should work: > > map outermap > MainPassages > break > LowerStream > endmap > > Make sure your .thconfig file has: > > select outermap@surveyname > > I think this is the most likely cause of your problem - if you don't > select the right map, Therion will select all of the scraps, without any > control over stacking order. > > > "[0 0] below" > > > This is something very different, and not related to stacking order. It > is used to offset a map from its natural position, and leave a shadow > "below" the other maps where it would normally have been. "0 0" would > not offset it at all, so you are asking Therion to draw the map in its > natural position, and leave a shadow ... also in its natural position > ... below the map. > > Probably not what you were looking for :) > > Hope this is useful. > > Tarquin > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Placing part of a map below another
Hello everyone - I seem to be missing something. I have made this work in the past, but now it seems that Therion is totally ignoring my instructions. Argh! I have a part of the cave where a stream flow under a tourist trail overlook. The original sketches were done on two different occasions, and I have drawn them as separate scraps. When I set up the map in the .th file, I created a map for "MainPassages" and another for "LowerStream". These are then collected into a single map. The LowerStream map has options "[0 0] below". However, the compiled map always shows it ABOVE. I tried adding a "break" between the two maps. I tried adding units to the [0 0], and I tried changing the offset from [0 0] to [20 20]. None of these made any visible difference in the compiled map. I tried removing the "join" that connects the lower stream to the main passage, but all that did was make for a sloppy join. The lower stream was still above the overlook area. I have other caves where I have done this, and it worked. What am I missing? Attached is the .th file I am using. Thanks! -- Bill Gee encoding utf-8 # The.th file defines the survey. It brings in all of the subfiles # and scraps. There can be several of these depending on how the # elevations work out. Normally there is one .th file for the # main plan and another for each elevation. map MainPlan -title "Stark Caverns (MIL001) - Plan View" -projection plan MainPassages@StarkCaverns OverlookLowerStream@StarkCaverns [0 0 feet] below endmap survey StarkCaverns -title "Stark Caverns" # List the th2 files here. Try to note which scraps are in what file. # Very first survey section, up to the Overlook input 20181229/StarkCaverns-1-5.th2 input 20190720/StarkCaverns-5-8.th2 input 20190223/StarkCaverns-B1-B5.th2 # From the three-way to the Onyx Circle input 20190223/StarkCaverns-B1-C4.th2 # Working backward from the three-way toward the entrance input 20190330/StarkCaverns-B1-AA1.th2 input 20190330/StarkCaverns-AA1-AA2.th2 input 20190330/StarkCaverns-AA2-AA5.th2 input 20190330/StarkCaverns-AA5-AA7.th2 input 20190330/StarkCaverns-AA7-AA9.th2 input 20190330/StarkCaverns-AA9-AA10.th2 input 20190330/StarkCavernsCrossSections1.th2 input 20190509/StarkCaverns-AA8-MID5.th2 input 20190509/StarkCaverns-AA3-QL5.th2 # The Onyx Circle area input 20190509/StarkCaverns-OC1-OC5.th2 input 20190720/StarkCaverns-OC2a-OC2l.th2 input 20190720/StarkCaverns-B1a-B1e.th2 # The lower stream level that goes under the Overlook input 20190720/StarkCaverns-E1-E3.th2 # The long north leg of the cave. input 20190720/StarkCaverns-C5-D8.th2 map MainPassages -projection plan StarkCaverns-1-5 StarkCaverns-5-8 StarkCaverns-B1-B5 StarkCaverns-B1-C4 StarkCaverns-B1a-B1e StarkCaverns-B1-AA1 StarkCaverns-AA1-AA2 StarkCaverns-AA2-AA5 StarkCaverns-AA5-AA7 StarkCaverns-AA7-AA9 StarkCaverns-AA9-AA10 # The Bone Passage, also called the Midden Passage StarkCaverns-AA8-MID5 # The Queen's Loft StarkCaverns-AA3-QL5 # The Onyx Circle StarkCaverns-OC1-OC5 StarkCaverns-OC2a-OC2l # The D passage StarkCaverns-C5-D8 endmap map OverlookLowerStream -projection plan # The lower stream passage under the Overlook StarkCaverns-E1-E3 endmap centreline # Define the units that will be used. units compass degrees units clino degrees units length feet units depth feet units tape feet units altitude feet units dimensions feet # A separate file contains all of the survey data. # One file per survey trip. equate B5 1 input 20181229/20181229Data.txt input 20190223/20190223Data.txt input 20190330/20190330Data.txt input 20190509/20190509Data.txt input 20190720/20190720Data.txt endcentreline #Joins go here join StarkCaverns-B1-B5 StarkCaverns-1-5 -smooth on join StarkCaverns-1-5 StarkCaverns-5-8 -smooth on join StarkCaverns-AA1-AA2 StarkCaverns-AA2-AA5 -smooth on join StarkCaverns-AA2-AA5 StarkCaverns-AA5-AA7 -smooth on join StarkCaverns-AA5-AA7 StarkCaverns-AA7-AA9 -smooth on join StarkCaverns-AA7-AA9 StarkCaverns-AA9-AA10 -smooth on join StarkCaverns-B1-AA1 StarkCaverns-AA1-AA2 -smooth on join StarkCaverns-B1-C4 StarkCaverns-OC1-OC5 -smooth on join StarkCaverns-AA7-AA9 StarkCaverns-AA8-MID5 -smooth on # join StarkCaverns # Upper level of Onyx Circle join StarkCaverns-OC1-OC5 StarkCaverns-OC2a-OC2l -smooth on # Lower stream passage under the Overlook join StarkCaverns-1-5 StarkCaverns-E1-E3 # Line joins for a three-way intersection join A1-3:0 B1-2:end join A1-2:end C1-1:0 # Line joins for water passage leading to Moonshiner's Dam join AA1-1:end A1-2:0 join AA1-2:0 A1-1:end # Line joins to add low side passage onto C survey join B1a-1:end C1-4:0 join B1a-2:0 C1-3:end join B1a-3:0 C1-2:end join B1a-3:end C1-2:0 endsurvey StarkCaverns ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Loch fails on Fedora 30
Good idea! But no joy ... No Wayland here - I am still on X. $ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE x11 Just in case - I tried your command to force x11 and got exactly the same error. -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:57:32 PM CDT Olly Betts wrote: > On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:22:55PM +0100, James Begley wrote: > > The build of Loch from the copr repository works for me on my fedora 30 > > workstation, so I'm guessing that there is an incompatibility with some > > libraries on your laptop and desktop. You say that Loch "no longer works", > > so presumably it used to work? Do you know vaguely when it stopped working? > > Note that the build of Loch in the copr repository hasn't changed since the > > therion 5.4.4 build on the 1st of May, so if Loch was working after that > > date, and isnt working now then it would point to an external library > > problem. > > > > Your error message points to a problem within the lxR2P.c file ( > > https://github.com/therion/therion/blob/master/loch/lxR2P.c) which would > > suggest that the mesa-libGL package might be causing this issue. I've got > > version 19.0.8-1 installed here, which was built on the 26th June (see > > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=184), but the > > Loch copr package would have been originally built against 19.0.3-1 . Does > > that help? (The mesa changelogs from https://www.mesa3d.org/ don't help me > > very much!). > > Currently wxWidgets' OpenGL support requires X and doesn't work with > Wayland. > > Fedora now defaults to Wayland, so perhaps Bill is using that default > but James is still using X? > > You can override for a single application by running it from a terminal > like so: > > GDK_BACKEND=x11 loch > > In Survex this workaround is implemented in the aven code, but I don't > see anything equivalent in the therion code. > > Cheers, > Olly > ___ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Loch fails on Fedora 30
Hi James - I have exactly the same version of mesa-libGL as you mention below. Below is what rpm -qi has to say about it. I see that I have both 32-bit and 64-bit packages installed. Is it possible that Loch is getting confused about which to use? Answering my own question: I tried Loch on a VirtualBox machine that runs 32-bit Fedora 30. Same error. I rarely use Loch, so figuring out when it stopped working is an exercise in futility. About the best I can say is it was probably working late last year (2018). I know it worked at one time ... Having a working Loch is one of the reasons I switched to using your copr packages instead of compiling from source. In all the years I compiled Therion from source, I always had to turn off the Loch component because it would always fail. I was excited to have it finally work! :-) Regards - Bill Gee Name: mesa-libGL Version : 19.0.8 Release : 1.fc30 Architecture: x86_64 Install Date: Sun 14 Jul 2019 07:53:01 PM CDT Group : Unspecified Size: 585432 License : MIT Signature : RSA/SHA256, Wed 26 Jun 2019 06:31:51 PM CDT, Key ID ef3c111fcfc659b9 Source RPM : mesa-19.0.8-1.fc30.src.rpm Build Date : Wed 26 Jun 2019 05:47:29 PM CDT Build Host : buildvm-22.phx2.fedoraproject.org Relocations : (not relocatable) Packager: Fedora Project Vendor : Fedora Project URL : http://www.mesa3d.org Bug URL : https://bugz.fedoraproject.org/mesa Summary : Mesa libGL runtime libraries Description : Mesa libGL runtime libraries. Name: mesa-libGL Version : 19.0.8 Release : 1.fc30 Architecture: i686 Install Date: Sun 14 Jul 2019 08:03:50 PM CDT Group : Unspecified Size: 582552 License : MIT Signature : RSA/SHA256, Wed 26 Jun 2019 06:31:07 PM CDT, Key ID ef3c111fcfc659b9 Source RPM : mesa-19.0.8-1.fc30.src.rpm Build Date : Wed 26 Jun 2019 05:47:35 PM CDT Build Host : buildvm-13.phx2.fedoraproject.org -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:22:55 PM CDT James Begley wrote: > Hi Bill, > > Sorry its taken so long to reply to this. > > The build of Loch from the copr repository works for me on my fedora 30 > workstation, so I'm guessing that there is an incompatibility with some > libraries on your laptop and desktop. You say that Loch "no longer works", > so presumably it used to work? Do you know vaguely when it stopped working? > Note that the build of Loch in the copr repository hasn't changed since the > therion 5.4.4 build on the 1st of May, so if Loch was working after that > date, and isnt working now then it would point to an external library > problem. > > Your error message points to a problem within the lxR2P.c file ( > https://github.com/therion/therion/blob/master/loch/lxR2P.c) which would > suggest that the mesa-libGL package might be causing this issue. I've got > version 19.0.8-1 installed here, which was built on the 26th June (see > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=184), but the > Loch copr package would have been originally built against 19.0.3-1 . Does > that help? (The mesa changelogs from https://www.mesa3d.org/ don't help me > very much!). > > Cheers, > James > > On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 at 17:09, Bill Gee wrote: > > > Hello everyone - > > > > > > > > I just noticed that Loch no longer works on Fedora 30. I use the version > > that is packaged by JM Begley. > > > > > > > > Launching from a KDE menu spins an hourglass for about 2 seconds and then > > goes away. When launched from a command shell, the only output is "Error: > > glXCreateContext failed". > > > > This happens on both my laptop and desktop, which have two different > > display drivers. It also happens on a VirtualBox guest. > > > > > > > > Is there a way to get a more detailed log file? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > -- > > > > Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Loch fails on Fedora 30
Hello everyone - I just noticed that Loch no longer works on Fedora 30. I use the version that is packaged by JM Begley. Launching from a KDE menu spins an hourglass for about 2 seconds and then goes away. When launched from a command shell, the only output is "Error: glXCreateContext failed". This happens on both my laptop and desktop, which have two different display drivers. It also happens on a VirtualBox guest. Is there a way to get a more detailed log file? Thanks! -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] BreakOut 3D cave viewer
Update: I installed Breakout Cave Survey Viewer on three different Fedora 30 systems. It works on two of them. It does not import the PLT files generated by Therion. According to the documentation, when you import Compass data you must specify both a PLT and a MAK file. Therion generates only the PLT. After much web searching, I think the problem on my laptop is not with Breakout itself but rather with the display driver. Breakout requires GLX3, but the Intel i915 display driver for my Lenovo Thinkpad T410 does not provide that. It only provides GLX2. The two systems that work are running nVidia and VirtualBox display drivers. I have not tried it with Nouveau. The nVidia display driver I use is the kmod packaged driver from the Fedora repository. Breakout Cave Survey Viewer duplicates much of the functionality provided by Aven and Loch. The main new feature is searching. You can tell Breakout to search for a particular survey station and it will take you there. It can also search for a range of stations, a named passage or room, surveys by date and much more. On the other hand - Breakout does not provide a way to see the straight-line distance between any two survey stations. It does not display the bounding box. -- Bill Gee On Monday, June 24, 2019 11:15:33 AM CDT Bill Gee wrote: > Hello everyone - > > I attended the NSS annual convention in Cookeville, TN last week. There was > a very interesting presentation on a 3D cave viewing software that might be > interesting to this group. The web site is > > https://breakoutcavesurvey.com > > The program is pure Java, so it requires a Java Runtime Environment of some > kind. The whole thing is just one .jar file.The demonstration was on a > Mac laptop. It starts on my desktop running Fedora 30, but gives an OpenGL > error on my laptop. There are probably some missing libraries of some kind. > The developer said that it will run on Windows. > > The viewer knows how to deal with Compass and Walls files. Therion can > output a Compass PLT file, so should be able to feed Breakout. I have not > tried this yet. > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] BreakOut 3D cave viewer
Hello everyone - I attended the NSS annual convention in Cookeville, TN last week. There was a very interesting presentation on a 3D cave viewing software that might be interesting to this group. The web site is https://breakoutcavesurvey.com The program is pure Java, so it requires a Java Runtime Environment of some kind. The whole thing is just one .jar file.The demonstration was on a Mac laptop. It starts on my desktop running Fedora 30, but gives an OpenGL error on my laptop. There are probably some missing libraries of some kind. The developer said that it will run on Windows. The viewer knows how to deal with Compass and Walls files. Therion can output a Compass PLT file, so should be able to feed Breakout. I have not tried this yet. -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] How to change alignment of "steps"
Hello everyone - See the attached screenshot. Notice the area under survey station OC2a. This is supposed to be some steps going up to the concrete block wall. Problem - The lines that show each step are not aligned the right way. They should be perpendicular to the survey line. How can I make a line of type "steps" change its alignment? I used "-attr c 8" to tell it how many steps. Is there another parameter to attr that tells which way to align the steps? And is there any parameter that indicates which way is up? The area is drawn using a line of type "steps". I started in the right-hand corner and drew in an anti-clockwise direction, making sure the line rejoins itself. The first segment of the line follows the steps in their up direction. Related question: The box under survey station OC2 is also steps. However, it is red. I cannot figure out why. Also, it does not show any steps. There should be 4 steps in it. And for those who pay attention - The empty box just north of OC5 should show two steps. Thanks! -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] Setting scale on custom symbol
Hi Bruce and Martin - Thanks for the tips. I have figured out how to make it work. The new code looks like this: # This code defines an artificial electric light. Used in tourist sections of a cave. def p_u_electriclight (expr pos,theta,sc,al) = U:=(0.3u, 0.3u); % Reduce size of the symbol. The default size is too big. interim defaultscale:=0.4sc; T:=identity aligned al rotated theta scaled defaultscale shifted pos; pickup PenC; thdraw fullcircle scaled 0.5u shifted (0.0u, 0.7u); thdraw (-0.5u, -0.6u) -- (-0.5u, 0.0u); thdraw (-0.5u, 0.0u) .. (-0.35u, 0.55u) .. (0.0u, 0.7u); thdraw (0.0u, 0.7u) .. (0.35u, 0.55u) .. (0.5u, 0.0u); thdraw (0.5u,0.0u) -- (0.5u, -0.6u); thdraw (-0.7u, -0.6u) -- (0.7u, -0.6u); enddef; I fiddled with the constant 0.4 to find a value that produces symbols about the size I wanted. A nice thing about this code is that it still respects the "-size xxx" parameters. What does the line "U:=(0.3u, 0.3u);" do? As far as I can tell, it has no effect at all. MetaPost is rather puzzling by having no explicit multiplication operator. The expression "0.4sc" does multiplication, but without any visible operator. The same happens for all the expressions involving "u". Back when I was studying computer science, that would have produced much vituperation from the professors! I think this code is now suitable for posting on the Wiki. I have several other custom symbols that might be useful to others: Pavement Boardwalk Tiled floor (all as area fills) Display case Boxwork Bear bed Pendant Stromatolite (These are points) Who should I send the code to for review and posting? -- Bill Gee On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 2:47:09 AM CDT Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > From: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265062623_Tutorial_in_MetaPost > > interim - Make a local change to an internal variable > > Martin Sluka > > > > 15. 5. 2019 v 9:23, Bruce Mutton : > > > > Hi Bill > > I think that merging what you have with an interim defaultscale:=0.6; > > variable as demonstrated by Thomas Holder here > > https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/metapost#special_symbol_examples will do the > > trick. > > You probably want to keep the sc in def p_u_electriclight (expr > > pos,theta,sc,al), and multiply it by defaultscale before calling > > T:=identity... > > Probably some trial and error involved. > > Bruce > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Therion On Behalf Of Bill Gee > > Sent: Monday, 13 May 2019 06:14 > > To: Therion Mail List > > Subject: [Therion] Setting scale on custom symbol > > > > Hello everyone - > > > > I have defined a custom symbol for electric light fixtures. The MetaPost > > code is below. Now that I have used it, I find that it draws the symbol > > too large. I tried using "-scale small" and "-scale tiny", and that helps. > > Rather than go through and add that to every point, I would like to change > > the MetaPost so it draws the symbol a bit smaller. > > > > And I am lazy! I could replot all the points for each of the lines. It > > seems to me there should be a simpler way. I tried messing with the U:= > > parameters, but they seem to make no difference whatever. > > > > Is there a way I can declare a multiplier in the MetaPost code? Perhaps > > declaring u = 0.6u? > > > > Thanks! > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Setting scale on custom symbol
Hello everyone - I have defined a custom symbol for electric light fixtures. The MetaPost code is below. Now that I have used it, I find that it draws the symbol too large. I tried using "-scale small" and "-scale tiny", and that helps. Rather than go through and add that to every point, I would like to change the MetaPost so it draws the symbol a bit smaller. And I am lazy! I could replot all the points for each of the lines. It seems to me there should be a simpler way. I tried messing with the U:= parameters, but they seem to make no difference whatever. Is there a way I can declare a multiplier in the MetaPost code? Perhaps declaring u = 0.6u? Thanks! -- Bill Gee # This code defines an artificial electric light. Used in tourist sections of a cave. def p_u_electriclight (expr pos,theta,sc,al) = U:=(0.3u, 0.3u); T:=identity aligned al rotated theta scaled sc shifted pos; pickup PenC; thdraw fullcircle scaled 0.5u shifted (0.0u, 0.7u); thdraw (-0.5u, -0.6u) -- (-0.5u, 0.0u); thdraw (-0.5u, 0.0u) .. (-0.35u, 0.55u) .. (0.0u, 0.7u); thdraw (0.0u, 0.7u) .. (0.35u, 0.55u) .. (0.5u, 0.0u); thdraw (0.5u,0.0u) -- (0.5u, -0.6u); thdraw (-0.7u, -0.6u) -- (0.7u, -0.6u); enddef; ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] JMBegley need repackaged survex and therion
Thanks, James! I can confirm that the updated Therion package installs correctly on Fedora 29. My attempt to upgrade to Fedora 30 is still blocking, but no longer complains about either Therion or Survex. Now it is Ekiga and MuseScore... -- Bill Gee On Thursday, May 2, 2019 12:31:36 PM CDT James Begley wrote: > Hiya, > > These packages (survex and the latest therion 5.4.4) have now been > generated for Fedora 30, so the upgrade process should be a bit smoother > for anyone else who wants to try. > > Cheers, > James. > > On Wed, 1 May 2019 at 17:04, Bill Gee wrote: > > > For JMBegley who very kindly maintains Fedora packages for both Therion > > and Survex ... > > > > > > > > When I start the dnf process to upgrade from Fedora 29 to Fedora 30, I get > > errors related to both Therion and Survex. The messages are: > > > > > > > > Problem 1: package survex-1.2.38-1.fc29.i686 requires libproj.so.12, but > > none of the providers can be installed > > - proj-4.9.3-6.fc29.i686 does not belong to a distupgrade repository > > - problem with installed package survex-1.2.38-1.fc29.i686 > > > > Problem 8: package libgeotiff-1.4.3-3.fc30.i686 requires libproj.so.13, > > but none of the providers can be installed > > - cannot install both proj-5.2.0-2.fc30.i686 and proj-4.9.3-6.fc29.i686 > > - cannot install both proj-5.2.0-1.fc30.i686 and proj-4.9.3-6.fc29.i686 > > - problem with installed package libgeotiff-1.4.0-14.fc29.i686 > > - package therion-5.4.3-1.fc29.i686 requires libproj.so.12, but none of > > the providers can be installed > > - libgeotiff-1.4.0-14.fc29.i686 does not belong to a distupgrade > > repository > > - problem with installed package therion-5.4.3-1.fc29.i686 > > > > There are other problem packages, but these two at least can be addressed > > through this list. > > > > -- > > > > Bill Gee > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Therion mailing list > > Therion@speleo.sk > > https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion > > > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] JMBegley need repackaged survex and therion
For JMBegley who very kindly maintains Fedora packages for both Therion and Survex ... When I start the dnf process to upgrade from Fedora 29 to Fedora 30, I get errors related to both Therion and Survex. The messages are: Problem 1: package survex-1.2.38-1.fc29.i686 requires libproj.so.12, but none of the providers can be installed - proj-4.9.3-6.fc29.i686 does not belong to a distupgrade repository - problem with installed package survex-1.2.38-1.fc29.i686 Problem 8: package libgeotiff-1.4.3-3.fc30.i686 requires libproj.so.13, but none of the providers can be installed - cannot install both proj-5.2.0-2.fc30.i686 and proj-4.9.3-6.fc29.i686 - cannot install both proj-5.2.0-1.fc30.i686 and proj-4.9.3-6.fc29.i686 - problem with installed package libgeotiff-1.4.0-14.fc29.i686 - package therion-5.4.3-1.fc29.i686 requires libproj.so.12, but none of the providers can be installed - libgeotiff-1.4.0-14.fc29.i686 does not belong to a distupgrade repository - problem with installed package therion-5.4.3-1.fc29.i686 There are other problem packages, but these two at least can be addressed through this list. -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] [Solved] Changing text on the legend
Hi Xavier -
Yep, that did it. The translations are working now. Thanks! It's so simple -
no wonder I missed it.
I added the "language" line to the 'basics' section of my layouts. That way
it propagates to all of the layouts I use.
I will make the change to my master files.
--
Bill Gee
On Friday, February 8, 2019 6:13:40 PM CST Xavier Robert via Therion wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> I had a quick look on you thconfig. The definition of the new custom legend
> seems OK.
> But, in your layout "MainMapNoColor" and "MainMapColorized", you need to add
> the language definition with the option "language en_US". If you do not add
> this option, therion seems to not use the en_US by default, and thus your
> custom legend is not taken in account.
>
> See the thconfig in attachement.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Xav
>
>
> De: "Bruce Mutton via Therion"
> À: "List for Therion users"
> Cc: "Bruce Mutton"
> Envoyé: Vendredi 8 Février 2019 18:07:23
> Objet: Re: [Therion] Changing text on the legend
>
>
>
> Hi Bill
>
> Not sure what is going wrong (just perused your files, I have not compiled
> them).
>
> I have had no such problems, and cannot see any significant differences to
> what I am doing for symbols that do not exist as a Therion default , although
> I have only user defined points and lines, not areas.
>
>
>
> Here are some examples that work in my thconfig file just fine (rope is
> perhaps a bad example, as I think it is now a default symbol, however it was
> not when I first created this many years ago).
>
> text en "line u:rope" "rope" #text to appear in legend
>
> text mi "line u:rope" "taura"
>
> text fr "line u:rope" "corde"
>
> text en "line u:heyphone" "hey phone antenna"
>
>
>
> In the particular case of rope, have small differences associated with symbol
> definition, that I don’t expect are relevant, but maybe…
>
> 1. No semi colon after initsymbol (seems like it is a mistake on my part,
> but it seems like it has not ever caused me problems).
> 2. I have defined the ‘shape’ of the symbol in the legend.
>
>
>
>
> initsymbol("l_u_rope")
>
>
>
> def l_u_rope_legend =
>
> l_u_rope(((.2,.2) -- (.8,.8)) inscale)
>
> enddef;
>
>
>
> Don’t expect this will help, but maybe…
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Therion On Behalf Of Bill Gee via Therion
> Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2019 10:01
> To: therion@speleo.sk
> Cc: Bill Gee
> Subject: [Therion] Changing text on the legend
>
>
>
> Hello everyone -
>
>
>
> This has been annoying me for a while. Time to see if there is a fix ...
>
>
>
> I have defined quite a few custom symbols, and I have redefined some of the
> symbols that are included with Therion. When Therion prints the legend, those
> symbols get labels like "area u:pavement".
>
>
>
> I added some text lines to the thconfig file, but that has no effect. A close
> reading of the Therion Book tells me that text substitution only works for
> text strings that are part of the language pack. That implies it does NOT
> work to re-label symbols in the legend. Is that true?
>
>
>
> The attached file is a sample cave. The PDF file shows the incorrect strings
> in the legend. The two custom symbols on this map are defined below.
>
>
>
> code metapost
>
> # Define an area fill for pavement
>
> beginpattern(pattern_pavement);
>
> draw (-0.7u, -0.2u)--(-0.1u, 0.2u) withpen pensquare scaled (0.04u);
>
> draw (0.1u, 0.2u)--(0.7u, -0.2u) withpen pensquare scaled (0.04u);
>
> patternxstep(1.6u);
>
> patternystep(0.50u);
>
> endpattern;
>
>
>
> def a_u_pavement (expr Path) =
>
> T:=identity;
>
> thclean Path;
>
> thfill Path withpattern pattern_pavement;
>
> enddef;
>
>
>
> # Define an area fill for tiled floor
>
> beginpattern(pattern_tiles);
>
> draw (-0.1u, -0.1u)--(-0.1u, 0.1u)--(0.1u, 0.1u)--(0.1u, -0.1u)--cycle;
>
> patternxstep(0.3u);
>
> patternystep(0.3u);
>
> endpattern;
>
>
>
> def a_u_tiles (expr Path) =
>
> T:= identity;
>
> thclean Path;
>
> thfill Path withpattern pattern_tiles;
>
> enddef;
>
>
>
>
>
> # Initialize the new symbols
>
> initsymbol ("a_u_pavement");
>
> initsymbol ("a_u_tiles");
>
>
>
> endcode
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
___
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https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] Changing text on the legend
Hello everyone -
This has been annoying me for a while. Time to see if there is a fix ...
I have defined quite a few custom symbols, and I have redefined some of the
symbols that are included with Therion. When Therion prints the legend, those
symbols get labels like "area u:pavement".
I added some text lines to the thconfig file, but that has no effect. A close
reading of the Therion Book tells me that text substitution only works for text
strings that are part of the language pack. That implies it does NOT work to
re-label symbols in the legend. Is that true?
The attached file is a sample cave. The PDF file shows the incorrect strings
in the legend. The two custom symbols on this map are defined below.
code metapost
# Define an area fill for pavement
beginpattern(pattern_pavement);
draw (-0.7u, -0.2u)--(-0.1u, 0.2u) withpen pensquare scaled (0.04u);
draw (0.1u, 0.2u)--(0.7u, -0.2u) withpen pensquare scaled (0.04u);
patternxstep(1.6u);
patternystep(0.50u);
endpattern;
def a_u_pavement (expr Path) =
T:=identity;
thclean Path;
thfill Path withpattern pattern_pavement;
enddef;
# Define an area fill for tiled floor
beginpattern(pattern_tiles);
draw (-0.1u, -0.1u)--(-0.1u, 0.1u)--(0.1u, 0.1u)--(0.1u, -0.1u)--cycle;
patternxstep(0.3u);
patternystep(0.3u);
endpattern;
def a_u_tiles (expr Path) =
T:= identity;
thclean Path;
thfill Path withpattern pattern_tiles;
enddef;
# Initialize the new symbols
initsymbol ("a_u_pavement");
initsymbol ("a_u_tiles");
endcode
Thanks!
--
Bill Gee
<>
___
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Re: [Therion] A bunch of symbols needed
Hi Martin - Very nice! Thanks, I had no idea how to make the steps work. I tried this out and it works great. There is one little problem I discovered. The "steps" line does not like to be crossed by other lines, especially floor steps. I had a floor step going across part of the box, and that resulted in Therion throwing an error at compile about an invalid steps definition. It took me a while to figure that one out. I also created a custom point symbol for electric lights. The label on the legend is not right but everything else about it is working well. It occurs to me that the steps line could also be used for boardwalk. I will take a look at the MetaPost for steps and see what might need to change. That is a task for next week. Also I need to look at Andrew's code for tiled areas, and I need to make a new area fill for pavement. There is always more stuff to do! :-) -- Bill Gee On Friday, January 4, 2019 8:11:28 AM CST Martin Sluka via Therion wrote: > > > 4. 1. 2019 v 14:22, Bill Gee via Therion : > > > > There are also both line and point symbols for stairs. The line symbol > > won't work. I need to check the point symbol to see how it works. The > > stairs in Stark Caverns go around several curves. I might wind up using > > visible borders, or perhaps repurposing the rock edge symbol, and then just > > drawing the steps individually. > > > Hi Bill, check therion’s wiki - there are examples how the line symbol > stairs/steps works. > > https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist#lines > <https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/drawingchecklist#lines> > ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Re: [Therion] A bunch of symbols needed
Hi Andrew - Thanks! It will take me some time to absorb this. The only question I have right now is how are the tile lines aligned with the cave? Are they north-south? On the centerline? Do they take an "orientation" parameter? I looked over the symbols actually in Therion. I found a suitable handrail symbol. It is, in fact, exactly the symbol that is in "On Station". There are also both line and point symbols for stairs. The line symbol won't work. I need to check the point symbol to see how it works. The stairs in Stark Caverns go around several curves. I might wind up using visible borders, or perhaps repurposing the rock edge symbol, and then just drawing the steps individually. The electric light symbol should be pretty easy to create. I have created other point symbols. I found references to a boardwalk symbol in the Wiki, but I don't think it will be useful. It looks like the symbol width is always the same regardless of how wide the actual feature is. -- Bill Gee On Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:07:42 AM CST Andrew Atkinson via Therion wrote: > > On 03/01/2019 02:20, Bill Gee via Therion wrote: > > I was at the cave a few days ago. I think I will need symbols for the > > following items: > > > > Tiled floor > > You can use the blocks code I have been working on > > https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/metapost#customisable_area_blocks_with_different_number_of_sides > > For squares use > > symbol_distance:=0.85; % Distance between the blocks as set out in a > rectangular grid > block_randomisation:=0; % Max each point of the base block can be moved. > Too big and they can intersect themselves > base_rotation:= 45; % Rotation from 0 of base block, can be used to set > all blocks to the same angle > random_rotation:= 0; % Rotation either side of base rotation eg 20 will > be plus or minus 10 each side > min_scale_factor:=1; % Minimum multiplier used for the base shape > add_scale_factor:= 0; % Added to the minimum multiplier to get the > maximum scale > block_rectangle:=1; % How much longer the block is than it is wide, > before randomising > shift_randomisation:=0; % Max random amount block can be moved from the > original grid > %Now set the proportions of different sided block > b_tri:=0; > b_quad:=1; > b_pent:=0; > b_hex:=0; > > If you do not want the grouting (gaps) use symbol_distance:=0.707; > > This misses out all the ones on the edge > > To improve this a bit change > > exitif xpart (p intersectiontimes qq) < 0; > > to > > exitif xpart (p intersectiontimes qq) < 10; > > This does not fix if fully to do that you will need to comment out, or > remove 2 more lines > > %if pointinside((i,j),p,outside): % Cleans lines on border, > assumably ones outside with just an edge touching >thclean qq; >thclean qq; >thclean qq; >thclean qq; >thdraw qq; > %fi; > > I really wish I knew exactly what this line did, but I just copied it > from another area blocks. > > Hexagons also tessellate giving a nice effect, but need code > modification to align > > These settings > > symbol_distance:=0.95; % Distance between the blocks as set out in a > rectangular grid > block_randomisation:=0; % Max each point of the base block can be moved. > Too big and they can intersect themselves > base_rotation:= 0; % Rotation from 0 of base block, can be used to set > all blocks to the same angle > random_rotation:= 0; % Rotation either side of base rotation eg 20 will > be plus or minus 10 each side > min_scale_factor:=1; % Minimum multiplier used for the base shape > add_scale_factor:= 0; % Added to the minimum multiplier to get the > maximum scale > block_rectangle:=1; % How much longer the block is than it is wide, > before randomising > shift_randomisation:=0; % Max random amount block can be moved from the > original grid > %Now set the proportions of different sided block > b_tri:=0; > b_quad:=0; > b_pent:=0; > b_hex:=1; > > and put this bit of code in the appropriate place (first and last 2 > lines not modified > > iu := uu * block_rectangle; > blocks := b_tri+b_quad + b_pent + b_hex; > k:=0; > tmp_pic := image( >for i = xpart llcorner q step (symbol_distance * block_rectangle * > uu) until xpart urcorner q: > k:=k+1; > for j = ypart llcorner q step (symbol_distance*uu) until ypart > urcorner q: > m:= j- (k mod 2) * 0.5 * uu * symbol_distance; > pick_sides := uniformdeviate(blocks); > if pick_sides < b_tri: > > Plus 16 lines later o
[Therion] A bunch of symbols needed
Hello everyone - I have recently taken on the task of managing a survey project for a highly commercialized cave. Roughly speaking, about half of the cave is tourist adapted and the other half is wild. In total, my best guess is something around 2000 meters of cave. The existing map was made around 1960 to 1962. It was a good map for that time but is badly in need of update. We are going to resurvey the whole cave from scratch. The old map will serve as a reference for place names but otherwise will not be used. For the tourist parts of the cave I am going to need a bunch of symbols. Before I go to the trouble of defining them myself, I want to ask if anyone has already created them. If so, I would like to utilize some "best practice" ... also known as "plagiarism"! :-) "On Station" has symbols for many of these items, but I do not see them called out in the Therion Book. I was at the cave a few days ago. I think I will need symbols for the following items: Paved trail Tiled floor Bridge Hand rails Boardwalk - Raised walkway over a man-made lake Wood benches Artificial light fixtures Stairway Man-made dams Display cases Midden Does anyone have any of these already defined? If you are interested, there is a Web site for this cave. https://starkcaverns.com/ Thanks! -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
[Therion] How to create Compass files
Hello everyone - Suggestions please! As a Linux user I have never tried using Compass. A week ago I discovered that Therion can create output files in Compass "PLT" format. I created a file and sent it to a friend who is a big Compass user. He reports that it will not import. To test, I created a Windows computer in VirtualBox and then installed Compass (version 5.10.1.23.267) on it. I confirmed my friend's observation. When I try to open the PLT file in the Compass viewer, it gives an error: "Invalid numeric input" When I try to open the file in the Compass editor, it give a different error: "1916543.04 is not a valid integer value" Looking at the PLT file with a Linux text editor shows no obvious problems. It appears to be a collection of GPS coordinates associated with survey stations. It is not a large file - about 36K bytes, which seems a bit small for a cave with almost 800 survey stations and about 15,000 feet (4.5 km) of passage. The line I used to generate the file is: export model -fmt compass -o BigCavernRanch.plt I tried adding "-enable all -wall-source all" to the compile line, but it made no difference. It did not even change the size of the file. I am using Therion version 5.4.1 on 64-bit Fedora 28. Thanks! -- Bill Gee ___ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
