Re: lessons from Java, OOP

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 30 nov. 04, à 23:43, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
Theory aside, the practical benefits of OOP involve productivity, 
through ease of maintenance and reuse.  For all of the talk of 
portable C++ objects over the years, few have materialized and very 
few are cross-platform.  That is, unless you adopt an entire 
framework, like CodeWarrior's PowerPlant or Apple's XCode, but then 
you're moving past a portable object and are talking about a 
generalized application foundation, which is a much bigger thing.  
Trying to reuse a single widget in C++ or Java often means pulling a 
long chain of superclasses along with it, so that what was described 
as a reusable object is really a large folder full of .c and .h files. 
;)

With Transcript, there are many practices which can help facilitate 
those practical benefits.  While they may not satisfy OOP purists, 
such folks are probably happily using Java anyway so we can ignore 
them and get back to our own productivity.

Because there is no way to get the Master of distribued application of 
the Ecole Pratique des Hautes-Etudes Institute (Sorbonne University - 
Paris, France), i worked, last year in coding some J2EE apps and 
deployed them under the Tomcat (JSP) and JBoss (EJB2) platforms...

In my own humble idea, there is still nothing that can be deployed in 
using a Revolution's application server that could be best coded and 
deployed in using the Java 1.4 platform. To code "academically", apps 
in Java 2, we need UML, 20 different frameworks (Eclipse or NetBeans 
one side, Ant, CVS, XDoclet, SWT, Struts, Andromda, Hibernate, 
JUnit,...) where we only need one framework (Rev) to go head with the 
same kind of project in using our prefered XTalk.

About OOP, Rev is from ground build to let us design as we want : 100% 
OOP or, best in my mind 50% OOP / 50% functionnal. In Java, we have no 
choice : 100% OOP only and only one hierarchical heritance way is 
available (from bottom to top) where Transcript let us free to design 
all the heritances we need (bottom-top, transversal messages beerwin 
handler and stacks, start using, send message) + the ability to use 
recursivity procs and functions...

To the end, the Java deployed apps are build by teams, running from 20 
to 60 times slower than the Revolution 2.5 one and can't be coded at 
once and deployed anywhere.

Anyone is free to choose Java instead of XTalk to code great networked 
apps but we have to understand and remember that Revolution is still 
the perfect tool to let us code in days and weeks ALL what can be build 
and deployed in weeks and months in using the J2EE platform. In 
opposition, there is no issues to code in Java all what can be coded in 
Transcript.

In my mind, Java lacks in some critical aera, alike the client-side 
security of the connected apps or alike the ways the SQL back-ends are 
binded to the application's servers.

In my mind, Java is a little outdated but, because marketing and 
ideology, it seems mainly a more usefull language than it is in 
reality.

It's my job to build critical networked apps with tousands of 
write-mode connections peer second. My customers don't care about what 
languages i'm using to delivry to them the apps they are paying for. 
They just remember that the delivred apps are always working as 
expected, for years...

Perhaps is Java - mainly - a bureaucratic and ideologic development 
paradigm, perhaps ;-)...

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 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
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Re: QT->MP3?

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Richard,
In beetwin possible others ways,
To test the procedure :
1.- Drag'n drop the movie (demux files only) over iTunes.
2.- Export the file as MP3 from the iTunes "Advanced" menu.
To drive it from within Rev :
3.- Build the automation process in driving it trought applescript or 
QuickKeysX from within Rev.

Best, Pierre
Le 30 nov. 04, à 03:58, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
Scott Rossi wrote:
Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
Anyone have an external to convert QT audio files to MP3?
Do you have to do this within Rev or are you looking to simply 
convert files
(thus something like iTunes)?
Gotta be Rev.  It's for a client.
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Re: devolution available

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Richard,
I love the Devolution logo, your designer's works and your humoristic 
point of view on technical tasks :-)

Kind Regards, Pierre
Le 27 nov. 04, à 21:02, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
While the "official" release of devolution isn't until next week, you 
folks can download it today:

<http://www.fourthworld.com/products/devolution/dev.html>
Please send any bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enjoy!
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Re: Technical strike

[Pierre Sahores]

Salut Ami Klaus !
Ton français, parfois un brin châtié, ne prouverait-il pas que tu es 
polyglotte jusqu'aux détails les plus "autochtones". Chapeau Monsieur ! 
En combien de patois indo-européens différents pratiques tu l'ironie 
des mots qui nourrissent la gentillesse et l'élégance ? Et c'est 
quelqu'un qui regrette de ne pas maîtriser assez l'anglais pour pouvoir 
apporter sa propre contribution à la saine ambiance qui règne (le plus 
souvent...) dans notre si agréable tribu qui le dit ;-)

A++, Pierre
P.S.: A short mail to congratulate Klaus about the detailled approach 
about its french spoken knoweage :-)

Le 19 nov. 04, à 19:23, Klaus Major a écrit :
Hi Richard,
I'm stuck in an Internet cafe in what is widely regarded as one of the
least Internet-access-friendly cities in the world, Rome.  It took 
some
time to find this place, and as with most such locations here there 
is no
wi-fi (most here have never even heard of it), so I'm patiently 
typing on
an Italian keyboard, trying to catch up on my stuff.
Now you know how i felt in Malta with Frederics french keyboard under 
my hands...
Mon dieux, c'etait casse-couilles ;-)

My point:
I had about 30 messages in my In Box related to this thread.  I get 
tons
of email like this everytime you're unhappy, Xavier, which is often.

So here's my offer to simplify both your life and mine:  Please find
another development tool whose list I am not on, and contact me 
offlist
to arrange for me to help get you a license.  You will at last no 
longer
be encumbered by what you express as incompetence in both the vendor 
and
its fans, and my email will be reduced to the subset that is of 
interest to me.

Deal?
I'll be back at my desk in a couple days, and look forward to only one
more email on this topic, a personal note to me about the new tool 
you've
selected.
ROFLOL :-D
I almost wet my pants, Richard, very good one :-)
- rg
Best from germanki
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: read from stdin

[Pierre Sahores]

Did you try with "with message", without "s" ?
Best, Pierre
Le 21 oct. 04, à 16:05, K a écrit :

I am executing the following transcript code:
read from stdin until numToChar(3)
put it into tRequest
When I add "with messages" the call returns without any data.  
However, the same call in the same execution sequence w/o the "with 
messages" the call returns the expected data.  Any ideas on this?

K
-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:
Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental.
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is 
non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to 
hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)


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Re: Lindows, video, and Rev

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 20 oct. 04, à 22:36, Mark Talluto a écrit :
On Oct 20, 2004, at 10:12 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Hi Mark,
Took 1 hour to see how it goes on Suse-Linux 8.2 Pro with video and i 
did'nt get clean usable results. Xanim, VLC, MPlayer and so on are 
not on the road to egal Quicktime in any way... Sorry, i will not go 
head with those Linux video tests... I use the Mac OS X QTSS platform 
for such kind of tasks and it's really a more powerfull paradigm.

Best Regards,
Pierre

Pierre,
Thanks for giving it a try.  I appreciate your time spent.  I will now 
report what I have learned.  Jacque told me that Rev is wired directly 
to xanim only at this time.  Not sure what the vcPlayer property is 
for.  Maybe it will have a use in the future.

I wish I could stick to Apple, but my distributor will pay me more for 
a Linux version.  That was all I needed to hear.

I was able to get xanim compiled on my Lindows system.  That was a 
learning experience.  Once I got that placed into the correct 
directory /usr/bin  video capabilities were available.  This solution 
is not as powerful as QT on Mac and Win though.  The player object 
does work though and this made my life a lot easier.  I have filed an 
enhancement to get mplayer interoperability with Rev as it is current 
and supported.  Xanim appears to be dead in the water in regards to 
support.

If anyone needs help compiling xanim, let me know.  I have a working 
"makefile" that should speed up the whole setup process.

Now...if only Apple would port QT to Linuxhmmm

Darwin Streaming Server works well under Linux x86 (i tested it 
successfully) but i'm not sure QT Player 6.xx and above will be ported 
to Linux ;-!

Best, Pierre
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Re: Lindows, video, and Rev

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Mark,
Because curiosity, i will have a look on what my old Suse 8.2 laptop 
can hold about Rev 2.5 video playback and let you know how it goes.

Best, Pierre
On Oct 18, 2004, at 1:07 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Le 18 oct. 04, à 05:53, Mark Talluto a écrit :
Anyone get Lindows to play any video in Rev 2.5?
I have set the vcplayer to "/usr/bin/MPlayer" and to 
"/user/bin/mplayer".
I have yet to get video to play.  I know I have mplayer installed 
because if I double-click on the test video, it plays in mplayer.
Being a Linux noob, I am at a loss on this.  I would like to use 
mplayer as it is included with Lindows.
What is the format of the videos you are trying to play, Mark ?
Hi Pierre,
I am using mpeg.  This movie plays just fine on the desktop when 
double-clicked.  I am going to install xanim today and see if I can 
get that to work.  I really wanted to stick with the player that is in 
the default install.

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http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: Lindows, video, and Rev

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 18 oct. 04, à 05:53, Mark Talluto a écrit :
Anyone get Lindows to play any video in Rev 2.5?
I have set the vcplayer to "/usr/bin/MPlayer" and to 
"/user/bin/mplayer".
I have yet to get video to play.  I know I have mplayer installed 
because if I double-click on the test video, it plays in mplayer.
Being a Linux noob, I am at a loss on this.  I would like to use 
mplayer as it is included with Lindows.
What is the format of the videos you are trying to play, Mark ?
--
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http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: revOpenDatabase Oracle

[Pierre Sahores]

I don't remember anymore since i use Postgres instead of Oracle but you 
should find this info in watching to your SQL*Plus documentation. Have 
an eye too about the login/password needed to access your Oracle 
backend (was by default "tiger/tiger" time before).

Best, Pierre
Le 15 oct. 04, à 08:38, Hartmut Eich a écrit :

I have this Database
Database name = test.at
TNSNAMES.ORA:
Test_db =
  (DESCRIPTION =
(ADDRESS_LIST =
  (ADDRESS = (COMMUNITY = tcp.world)(PROTOCOL = TCP)(Host =
xxx.test_serv.at)(Port = ))
)
(CONNECT_DATA = (SID = TEST)
)
  )
I do this
get revOpenDatabase("Oracle","xxx.test_serv.at","test.at",user,pw)
get revOpenDatabase("Oracle","xxx.test_serv.at","TEST",user,pw)
The result is this
ORA-12514: TNS:listener could not resolve SERVICE_NAME given in connect
descriptor
The revolution documentation says:
"The port is the port number you want to connect to, and is used only
for PostgreSQL and MySQL databases. If no port is specified, MySQL
database connections use port 3306 and PostgreSQL database connections
use port 5432."
Which port does Oracle use?
Can somebody give me a hint, how to connect correct to the database


Thanks and advance

Hartmut
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Re: Revolution used by Novell peoples...

[Pierre Sahores]

Thanks Richard for storing it in the FourthWorld tutorials libraries :-)
For the ones interested in the search engine i used to find the first  
Revolution about Novell's paper, have an eye at

<http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/internet_utilities/ 
pansophica.html> witch need the Apple's X11 interface.

Kind Regards, Pierre
Le 15 oct. 04, à 00:58, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here's another Novell article giving a tutorial for using Revolution
to interface with the Linux shell (with screenshots!).
http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/nnlsmag/features/ 
a_stomfi_2_nls.html
Thanks for the link.  Great article.  I just added it to the index of  
Rev tutorials at:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/rev/>

Is there a similar list at the RunRev site?
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Re: [ANN] EnhancedQT 1.0 Beta

[Pierre Sahores]

Many thanks for this great stuff, Trevor. I will test it as soon as 
possible.

Best Regards,
Pierre
Le 14 oct. 04, à 01:05, Trevor DeVore a écrit :
Hi,
I've posted EnhancedQT 1.0 beta 1 for anyone who feels adventurous and 
wants to begin testing.  I haven't included any new sample stacks but 
there is documentation (which still needs a lot of work) in the 
download which lays out all of the handlers.

Some additions to 1.0:
* Setting and getting QTLists is much more reliable.  It now works on 
movies and tracks and setting actually works.  In previous version you 
could get a QTList but not set it.
* You can get/set flash variables, simulate mouse clicks on flash 
buttons, and navigate within frames.(see QTFlash.html in docs).
* You can rotate player objects (thanks to Brian Yennie).
* You can create seamless loops from an audio file (QT skips when 
repeating normally) without increasing required memory (see 
QTAudio.html in docs)
* Added functions for getting information about movie files 
(qtCanQuickTimeOpenFile, qtGetMovieFileType, qtGetMovieFileDuration, 
qtGetMovieFileDimensions).

Some changes to 1.0 from previous version:
* All errors return "qterr,ERROR Message" so you can check item 1 of 
the result() or returned value to see if there was an error.
* FSCommands from SWF files now send QTFSCommand messages rather than 
FSCommand.
* qtSave is now qtSaveAs and has modified parameters.  qtSave will be 
implemented once Rev exposes the necessary movie properties.
* Editing functions no longer return 1/0.  Instead empty/error.
* If something isn't working that used to check the parameters in the 
docs.  They may have changed.

You can get the beta at:
<http://mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/enhancedqt.html>
Send feedback to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
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Blue Mango Multimedia
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Re: Linspire

[Pierre Sahores]

As long as i know, Lindows isj just a fine tunned linux distribution 
and Rev works on any linux x86 issues.

Le 13 oct. 04, à 23:43, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
Hi all , Does RR compile for Linspire (Lindows) ?
Thanks , Hershel
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Revolution used by Novell peoples...

[Pierre Sahores]

See this :
<http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/nnlsmag/features/tips/ 
t_linux_runrev_nls.html>

Best,
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Re: online video tutorials?

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Chipp,
Works OK there even if the download process need to complete before the 
"play" (video) button become available (Panther 10.3.5 / PWB G4 12" 
1Ghz 768 Mo RAM).

Best Regards,
Le 12 oct. 04, à 21:51, Chipp Walters a écrit :
Hmmm.
I can't access any of the revOnline video tutorials. Are they gone? 
All I seem to be able to do is download .pdf files.

Any ideas anyone?
-Chipp
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Re: RTF text

[Pierre Sahores]

Thanks Xavier for writting this...
Not too zen at all... It's important to say, again and again, that we 
don't need to let the best tools do our work for us. Revo is able to 
let us design all we are able to have in mind, no least, no more and 
it's exactly why Revo is the perfect tool we knows ;-)

Best, Pierre
if RunRev had to take care of every snitchy translation out there,
the program would be about 9 TeraBytes zipped download... Be happy...
Some things, are not handled... but you can handle anything...
the Power of a programmer... who published that again?
Just a pointer to getting your app out before the punlisher
comes out with a perfect solution for everyone...
hope that's not too zen... ;)
MonsieurX.com

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Re: MAC Address on Linux

[Pierre Sahores]

Hi,
Use the "ifconfig -a" command to collect all the availables interfaces 
informations.

Best,
Le 9 oct. 04, à 23:20, Alex Tweedly a écrit :
At 15:18 09/10/2004 -0500, Ken Ray wrote:
(Sorry about that last one)
Thanks, Mark... I tried this in my copy of RedHat 9, and I don't get
anything with "HWaddr" in /sbin/ifconfig. When I looked at Mark 
Waddingham's
approach of doing "cat /proc/net/arp", I didn't get anything either. 
The
only thing I got with /sbin/ifconfig is the localhost address 
(127.0.0.1).

So perhaps it's not as universal as we'd think... any suggestions for
getting MAC address in RedHat 9?
Stupid question - but are you sure you had an ethernet interface up 
and running on the Redhat9 box when you tried this ?

Getting only localhost back is what you'd expect if there is no active 
ethernet interface, and the /proc/net/arp method would similarly give 
you nothing back.I don't have a copy of Redhat - but I know that back 
at version 6 it supported ifconfig as needed for this method to work.

-- Alex.
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Re: Linux Audio

[Pierre Sahores]

Sorry, never tested this under my Suse 8.2 configs :-(
Le 29 sept. 04, à 17:23, David Quinn-Jacobs a écrit :
Are there any other Linux developers who have had success playing 
audio files and/or clips? If so, could someone send a sample audio 
file to me, or perhaps some good advice?  I have tried multiple 
formats (as suggested by tech support and on this list) on multiple 
RedHat/Fedora configurations without success.

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Re: ANN: FTP Commander update...

[Pierre Sahores]

Wah ! Great and cool stuff Andre. Thanks for sharing it :D
I just tested this new issue (PWB G4 Panther 10.3.5 on the client side 
/ Suse-Linux 8.2 Pro + pureFTPD on the server side) and it works just 
as expected.

I will yet have to learn your code !
Thanks again :)
Best Regards, Pierre
Le 24 sept. 04, à 17:31, Andre Garzia a écrit :
Hi Folks,
I am back since the last war with my tonsils. I updated the 
FTPCommander Stack so that it could understand some weird file 
listings by IIS... you can fetch it from Revolution Online under 
"utilities" or at my space "soapdog". Also you can point to 
http://www.soapdog.org/rev/FTPCommander.rev

any feature request?
Andre
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Re: Standalone runs openstack & closestack b4 stack window appears

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 24 sept. 04, à 13:20, Bruce A. Pokras a écrit :
I have a single-stack rev project in which the stack script has both 
an openstack handler and a closestack handler. Doesn't sound that 
unusual, does it? However, when compiled as a standalone with Rev 2.5 
under Mac OS 9.1,  _both_ the openstack _and_ closestack handlers run 
before the stack window appears. Then, once the stack window appears, 
the openstack handler runs _again_!

There are not other openstack or closestack handlers in the stack. I 
checked the documentation to see if this was normal, but could not 
find anything. I worked around this problem by testing for the 
existence of the stack window in the openstack handler, and changing 
the closestack handler to a closestackrequest handler.

Does anyone have an inkling why a closestack handler would run upon 
starting a standalone, and why an openstack handler would run twice?
No, unfortunally... Try, as a workaround, to stick the line below on 
top of your openstack and closestack handlers :

"if the short name of this stack is not  then exit 
openstack / closestack"

and let us know if it does the job ;)
Regards,
Bruce Pokras
Blazing Dawnsoftware
www.blazingdawn.com
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Re: how Revolution did in programming contest: 82nd percentile

[Pierre Sahores]

Top Génial ! as we says in froggie's spoken !
Best, Pierre
Le 21 sept. 04, à 09:10, Jan Schenkel a écrit :
--- Dar Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The results are in!
http://www.cis.upenn.edu/proj/plclub/contest//index.php
Back in June my son and I entered a programming
contest.  He was a
strategist and I did the Transcript programming.
Woot -- congrats, Dar and son !
Jan Schenkel.
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Re: Rép : Rev cgi, PostgreSQL and standalones

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Jan,
I'm just on the way to improve the html's part production in using the 
"FreeWayExpress" wisiwig html editor (MacOS only). Golive and 
Dreamweaver are probably good at this point too.

Let me know how this goes for you :)
Best, Pierre
Le 20 sept. 04, à 12:52, Jan Schenkel a écrit :
--- Pierre Sahores <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello There,
First part available (example app)...
To get it, just type
<http://acacia93.dyndns.org/rev_web_app.zip> from
within your prefered Web browser.
Have fun,
Best, Pierre
Merci beacoup, Pierre -- I've just downloaded it and
will poke around in it as soon as I find the time.
Jan Schenkel.
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Re: Linux & Rev

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 18 sept. 04, à 21:52, Mark Talluto a écrit :
On Sep 18, 2004, at 12:27 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
sims wrote:
Thank you to all who replied about Linux applications & Rev!
I think I missed this part:  How does one setup icons and file type 
associations for the user in Gnome and KDE?
I am not sure yet myself.  I too await for a sage to guide.
Same for me, Richard ;-!
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Re: DATABASE FUNCTIONS

[Pierre Sahores]

Dear Tuviah,
I tested lot of them under Panther and all worked very fine. Does they 
work as well under the linux platform ?

Best Regards, Pierre
Le 18 sept. 04, à 18:06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
Note you can also edit the script of btn "revdatabase" of stack 
"revlibrary" and use additional wrapper functions around revdb. They 
are pretty well organized and tested just underdocumented, and let you 
do things like execute statements using an opened connection, cache 
multiple connections. You can mix and match these with using the 
database query builder. and it supports caching records, and binding 
like the query builder.

Best,
Tuviah

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Re: revamail / revgourl "mailto:"

[Pierre Sahores]

Vielen Danke, Klaus !
Best, Pierre
Le 17 sept. 04, à 17:06, Klaus Major a écrit :
Hi all,
if someone dares to put his/her hands on the library, here is the 
workaround:

Script of btn "revcommon" of cd 1 of stack "Revolution 
2.x/components/global environment/revlibray.rev"

Replace this line:
if char 1 to 4 of pWhich is not "file" and char 1 to 4 of pWhich is 
not "http" then put "http://"; before pWhich -- put in http
With these lines:
  if char 1 to 7 of pWhich <> "mailto:"; then
if char 1 to 4 of pWhich is not "file" and char 1 to 4 of pWhich 
is not "http" then
  put "http://"; before pWhich
end if
  end if

Et voila, the revival of "revmail" :-)
Regards
Klaus Major
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Re: DATABASE FUNCTIONS

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 17 sept. 04, à 05:18, Stephen Quinn Barncard a écrit :
So I didn't get a response. I guess my post was too long and rambling.
I'll boil it down to this:
Does Rev's Database Builder have some issues? I seem to run up against 
some limitations such as integer variables being displayed in a field 
with unwanted leading zeroes (which caused problems when written back 
to MySQL) and the fields not being refreshed after being changed.

 Do the database primitives work better than to use the builders?
Yes ! All the ones i use under the Mac OS X platform are OK. Under the 
linux platform, i didn't have time to test as long i'm still using 
direct shell() pipe calls to psql (Postgres).
I mean, is the only way I'm going to really get control of the data 
and change it going in and out is to do it directly? And does that 
mean that the 'binding' would have to be done with put statements from 
variables?

Finally, does someone have a good example of recent stacks that 
demonstrate how the primitives are used?
See if this (PostgreSQL dedicated) example app can help 
<http://acacia93.dyndns.org/rev_web_app.zip>

Best, Pierre
thanks.
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Re: Re[2]: Runtime/Perl

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 17 sept. 04, à 01:48, thierry Douez a écrit :
my dream is to have an external to Revolution like mod_perl for apache.
Add my vote to this metatool dream :)
Pierre
HTH
Best regards,  thierry
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Re: Linux & Rev

[Pierre Sahores]

I want to port some of my own apps to Linux for use in this
attempt at getting the Malta Linux Users Group to attend the
EuroRevCon. If there is anyone on the list who has time to
test them for me (I do not have a linux machine) please get
in touch at  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you have one or two to send that i can test here under my linux 
development laptop,... :)

Best, Pierre
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Re: Rev with PostgreSQL on Linux

[Pierre Sahores]

Hi Frank,
Did you have an eye to the dedicated mail i posted yesterday about this 
matter ?

First part available (example app)...
To get it, just type <http://acacia93.dyndns.org/rev_web_app.zip> from 
within your prefered Web browser.

Have fun,
Best, Pierre
Le 14 sept. 04, à 20:16, Frank D. Engel, Jr. a écrit :
Has anyone been able to get Rev working with PostgreSQL databases 
under Linux or Solaris?

I have several stacks which work (as well as they do) under OS X and 
Windows, but seemingly interpret the database library calls as handler 
exits under Linux and Solaris; am I the only one experiencing this, or 
is there some setup trick I am missing here?

In each case, I try to connect to a database across a network, the 
same one which works fine from either Windows or OS X.

Thank you!
---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Rép : Rev cgi, PostgreSQL and standalones

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello There,
First part available (example app)...
To get it, just type <http://acacia93.dyndns.org/rev_web_app.zip> from 
within your prefered Web browser.

Have fun,
Best, Pierre

Le 10 sept. 04, à 10:30, Robert Brenstein a écrit :
Hello Jan, Alejandro, Robert, JB,
I couldn't upload the rev's web app example i expected to share on 
my revonline account in response to your mails ;-! Is it my mistake 
or a bug in the Rev 2.5 build 2 issue (buildnumber 9, 2.6.1 engine) 
i'm currently using ?

I will put some of the old posts together in a more suitable pdf 
file, hopefully next WE.

If that can help to win time, i can post, off-list, a simple 
complete example app (linux and panther compatible) as a zip 
archive.

Best, Pierre
Thanks in advance. That would be really appreciated. I mean both the 
PDF (plain web page suffice as well) and a complete example. I am 
sure you have web space available but if there is an issue, I can 
post it on my web site. Also Jacque may be happy to add to hers.
OK. Will send the download link after setting up an ftp public folder 
on one of my servers. Would be cool from you or Jacque to mirror the 
link :)

Best, Pierre
RevOnline is great but requires people using the newly released 
version of Rev (I am delaying upgrade for a few months myself) and it 
is still a brand new service. My point is that it would be good to 
have this in RevOnline but not only.

Robert
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Re: Rev cgi, PostgreSQL and standalones

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Jan, Alejandro, Robert, JB,
I couldn't upload the rev's web app example i expected to share on my 
revonline account in response to your mails ;-! Is it my mistake or a 
bug in the Rev 2.5 build 2 issue (buildnumber 9, 2.6.1 engine) i'm 
currently using ?

I will put some of the old posts together in a more suitable pdf file, 
hopefully next WE.

If that can help to win time, i can post, off-list, a simple complete 
example app (linux and panther compatible) as a zip archive.

Best, Pierre
Le 9 sept. 04, à 12:50, Jan Schenkel a écrit :
--- Robert Brenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Alejandro,
I'm a little confused about a so kindly
congratulations. Thank you ;)
I plan to write 80 pages about the subject in the
first quarter of
2005, freely available to the MC/Rev community and,
if possible, to
find a fench publisher interested in printing a
paper issue
dedicated to help to let know more about the Rev
based "n-tier" apps
scope...
Best Regards, Pierre
Praise is quite in order. However, Pierre, could it
be too much to
ask to combine your list posts and convert into a
short comprehensive
info for us to use sooner? You have really given
lots of useful
tidbits over time but as others stated the info is
spread in
different emails and varying level of detail, thus
hard to use.
Having it all together would be greatly appreciated.
Robert Brenstein
I second this : as I'm just starting out with PHP at
the moment, I'd love to leverage my Transcript
knowledge to use Rev as an application server for my
business logic, and build a rock-solid n-tier system
that can handle plenty of connections and would only
require customers to run a single server, unlike the
Windows world where you'll often see 3 servers doing
what you and I would do with a single Linux of MacOS X
Server.
Jan Schenkel.
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manquons souvent d'expérience, malgré le nombre des années." (La 
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Re: Why 10 hours for a newbie and 30 days for a "programmer"

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 8 sept. 04, à 18:04, Peter T. Evensen a écrit :
How about a graduate research project comparing the development 
productivity with Revolution over Java (let's say).   This could get 
Revolution noticed in the academic circles and perhaps spawn more 
interested and research.
Rev and Tomcat are going to go head to head with good results in about 
serving dynamic html contents including databases connections but Rev 
will win the competition in about the time needed to develop the apps 
and the amount of connections served peer second (linux issue). In 
about EAI stuffs, Rev will, against the EJB2 servers (JBOSS, WebSphere, 
WebLogic,...), win "height the hand" in any case !

So this graduate research project would, surelly be a good thing...
At 11:03 PM 9/7/2004, you wrote:
Still, I think that the educators on this list aught to band up and 
figure
out ways to evangelize the product.  It costs us little (I think) and
helps us justify our tool of choice.  We somehow have to get 
publication
notice -- both refereed and 'popular' press reviews, articles, etc.
written and published.

I need to work on my own Rev 'case study' for the company... and 
others do
too.  It would be good if we could all focus on a slightly different 
facet
(for example, as my class is largely CS-majors, focus on producing 
proof
of concept game dev stuff in short order; perhaps Devin @ BYU could 
take
the newbie/humanities angle... Marty can do the middle-school intro to
programming...).

Aren't I great for coming up with work for *other* folks? @;-)
Judy
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Re: Rev cgi, PostgreSQL and standalones

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Alejandro,
I'm a little confused about a so kindly congratulations. Thank you ;)
I plan to write 80 pages about the subject in the first quarter of 
2005, freely available to the MC/Rev community and, if possible, to 
find a fench publisher interested in printing a paper issue dedicated 
to help to let know more about the Rev based "n-tier" apps scope...

Best Regards, Pierre
Le 8 sept. 04, à 17:05, Alejandro Tejada a écrit :
on Tue, 7 Sep 2004
Pierre Sahores wrote:
3)  let the webapps communicate only with an Apache
+ PHP/Perl/Python
sockets translator + a Rev application server via
post commands, and have all database requests
handled only by the Rev
app on the server in a localhost TCP/IP mode only
(set in the postgres
hba.conf file)... Lots more faster and secure than
the cgi way...
Hi Pierre,
You have been very successful integrating RR
with the common protocols used in the web.
My greatest congratulations! :-)
You have helped a lot of people in this
mail list on this theme, but the information is
fragmented among many messages and threads.
Have you think to write a book about it? or
A Guided tutorial about the whole process? or
Help Dan Shafer on this topic for his book series?
Keep Up your good work! :-)
al
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Re: PostgreSQL and MacOS 9

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 8 sept. 04, à 20:23, jbv a écrit :
I first asked the question to [EMAIL PROTECTED],
but am still awaiting their answer...
so I thought someone help me make things clearer...
Does the new Rev 2.5 Enterprise include PostgreSQL
support for MacOS 9 ?
Just a supposition :
It will, at least, be a way to connect a remote PostgreSQL server from 
a Rev's client app running under OS9, as long as it will be a Rev app 
or cgi running on the server-side under OSX, Unix or Win32, able to 
connect, trough the RevDB lib, the Postgres server in TCP/IP mode.

Best,
In the documentation, in the "Database types" window,
it says "not supported" for Mac OS, but "yes" for
Enterprise... That's a bit confusing...
Thanks,
JB

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Re: login & pwd for standalones ?

[Pierre Sahores]

The best is to handle this on the server side, inside a postgresql 
authentification table. I use this way all the time to manage 
"login/password" protected accesses to all of my networked n-tier apps.

Best, Pierre
Le 7 sept. 04, à 21:34, jbv a écrit :
Folks,
One of my clients wants a webapp with a large
set of functions, and he's gonna distribute them
to his colleagues, but needs to enable / disable
certains functions, differently for each user.
He also wants a login & pwd for each user (that
will be entered at start up) and possibly limit the
use of an app in time (3 months for instance).
Of course, I can do that with variables, and build
as many different standalones as different users.
But I was wondering if there was a more general
(and more efficient) way to do that... especially
because my client isn't going to call me everytime
he needs a new copy with specific login + pwd +
time limit, and also because he isn't going to build
standalones by himself...
Thanks,
JB
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Re: Rev cgi, PostgreSQL and standalones

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 7 sept. 04, à 20:33, jbv a écrit :
Hi again,
I'm presently working on a website project for a client,
in which all the cgi stuff will be handled by Rev on a linux
RH server. A PostgreSQL database is also included and
requests will be done by endusers through webpages and
cgi scripts.
Besides I will also build a couple of web apps for this client
and his colleagues for simple management tasks of the database
(mostly add / delete / edit records).
I have 2 options, and am wondering which one is the best :
1) let these webapps communicate directly with the database,
but in that case I need to distribute the PostgreSQL driver
with each standalone, right ?
Not recommanded and difficult to secure and maintain
2) let the webapps communicate only with Rev cgi via
post commands, and have all database requests handled
only by the cgi app on the server...
Best and If i can add a proposal :
3)  let the webapps communicate only with an Apache + PHP/Perl/Python 
sockets translator + a Rev application server via
post commands, and have all database requests handled only by the Rev 
app on the server in a localhost TCP/IP mode only (set in the postgres 
hba.conf file)... Lots more faster and secure than the cgi way...

Best, Pierre
I would apreciate any advice / experience on that topic.
Thanks,
JB
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Re: Mac browser in Rev?

[Pierre Sahores]

Great News, Chipp ! Count me as beta-tester if needed :-)
Le 7 sept. 04, à 20:30, Chipp Walters a écrit :
Hi Rob,
Beta 2 is going to the testers today. Everything now is working except 
for the ability to turn scrollbars on/off (which should be completed 
shortly). I hope to have this thing released end of this week.

best,
Chipp
Andre Garzia wrote:
On Sep 7, 2004, at 2:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I recall reading something on this list about someone at a 
conference working
on an external for Rev that would permit a Mac browser to be 
embedded within
Revolution.   Is that feature still in the works?   I've got a 
project coming
up that could really use such a feature.   Perhaps I could sign up 
to be a
tester?
Rob,
that would be chipp and his marvelous altBrowser, don't know if they 
are already testing it...
cheers
andre
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Re: Download videos? (OT: What is Labor Day)

[Pierre Sahores]

Alike always, in about Politics : a politically correct smily face and 
a less human (aka: more realistic) one :-!

Le 7 sept. 04, à 10:06, Mark Wieder a écrit :
Marian-
Monday, September 6, 2004, 7:50:13 PM, you wrote:
MP> American workers. It constitutes a yearly national tribute to the
MP> contributions workers have made to the strength, prosperity, and
MP> well-being of our country."
Although there *are* other opinions:
"President Grover Cleveland signed a law designating the first Monday
in September as Labor Day nationwide. This is interesting because
Cleveland was not a labor union supporter. In fact, he was trying to
repair some political damage that he suffered earlier that year when
he sent federal troops to put down a strike by the American Railway
Union at the Pullman Co. in Chicago, IL. That action resulted in the
deaths of 34 workers."
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question459.htm
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Re: Download videos? (OT: What is Labor Day)

[Pierre Sahores]

Thanks Marian and Mark,
 Le travail est l'aliment des âmes nobles. Generosos animos labor 
nutrit. Work is the food of noble hearts.

Sénèque
Letters to Lucilius, XXXI
Best, Pierre
Le 7 sept. 04, à 04:50, Marian Petrides a écrit :
Pierre,
Labor Day is a national holiday in the US to celebrate working 
Americans.  It traditionally marks the end of the summer, just as 
Memorial Day--late in May-- (remembering all those who died in the 
service of our country) marks the start of summer.

Quoting from the department of Labor website   
http://www.dol.gov/opa/aboutdol/laborday.htm   :

"Labor Day, the first Monday in September, is a creation of the labor 
movement and is dedicated to the social and economic achievements of 
American workers. It constitutes a yearly national tribute to the 
contributions workers have made to the strength, prosperity, and 
well-being of our country."

There's lots more information on how Labor Day came about at the above 
URL if you are interested.

M
...
Pierre-
Monday, September 6, 2004, 10:30:35 AM, you wrote:
PS> Hello Marian :-)
PS> Can you relate what's the Labor Day we have n't at all, there in 
France
PS> ? Thanks for helping to expend my little Worldaround knowedge :)

I'll fill in for Marian for a moment...
We're a bit behind the times here in the US. While the rest of the
world celebrates labor on the first of May, we wait until the first
Monday until September because of the "unpleasant" connections of
Mayday with... er... labor. Although if I remember correctly, Maggie
Thatcher also tried to move the UK off the standard and substitute a
holiday for the Queen Mum's birthday.
...

On Sep 6, 2004, at 1:30 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Can you relate what's the Labor Day we have n't at all, there in 
France ? Thanks for helping to expend my little Worldaround knowedge 
:)
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Re: Download, change and upload, from RAM

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Katir,
Le 6 sept. 04, à 06:56, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami a écrit :
Is it possible to have a standalone app download and run a stack,
Yes
which then resides in memory only,
Yes
user makes changes and then clicks a button and the stack is  
uploaded...
No but you can, instead, use an "POST" http proc. (sticked in the 
client-side stack) witch will save the stack's filled fields and 
buttons selections to your server back, via a rev's  cgi or, best, a 
rev's application server, witch will let you save the datas where you 
want (a backend file, stack or database). Perhaps could this feet your 
needs ;)

Best, Pierre
all without writing the stack to disk, even once?
Sivakatirswami
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Re: Download videos?

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Marian :-)
Can you relate what's the Labor Day we have n't at all, there in France 
? Thanks for helping to expend my little Worldaround knowedge :)

About saving QT videos to disk, i use QuickTime Pro (US $ 29 or so) 
witch include the "save to disk" feature. There are probably other ways 
(Rev QT libs, QT Java Libs, etc...) to do the same but it's the onest i 
know about, at this time.

Bests, Pierre
Le 6 sept. 04, à 14:33, Marian Petrides a écrit :
Hi all. And a happy Labor Day to those of you in the US!
Does anyone know of a way to save the videos to disk for viewing at 
times when one doesn't have an internet connection?

I took a long trip this past weekend and was planning on working with 
Rev, in particular doing the things I don't seem to have time for 
during the week--chiefly watching the videos.  Then I realized I 
couldn't download them and did not have an internet connection in the 
air or at the airports I was passing through. Being able to download 
and watch again without re-downloading would be really helpful.

Thanks.
M
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Re: CGI Problem Solved [was Re: CGI Fiction Search Example]

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 5 sept. 04, à 23:49, Gregory Lypny a écrit :
Hello again,
I got Jacqueline's CGI fiction search example to run.  The problem was 
that her scripts called #!revolution but the engine file I had 
installed was named "rev".  Simply changing it to "revolution" did the 
trick.  All that time, sigh...  By the way, the engine file has no 
version information.  Is there some way I can find out whether I'm 
using the most up-to-date stuff?

The cgi appears to run faster than FileMaker.
Lots more faster, in fact and, lots more faster, too, than J2EE apps ;)
 Very cool.  Now, in my upcoming projects, I will have to develop 
something akin to tokens and handlers that can generate html tables 
dynamically, perhaps based on GoLive templates.

Once again, thanks for all your help.
Regards,
Gregory
__
Associate Professor of Finance
John Molson School of Business
Concordia University
Montreal, Quebec
Canada
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Re: Multiple Lists: Another View

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 5 sept. 04, à 02:05, Dan Shafer a écrit :
-- snip --
I'm not opposed to *some* fragmentation along fairly broad lines. But 
I think creating special lists to discuss SQL or text processing or 
animation would be a mistake.
Probably are they some ones of us yet using SQL tools because they 
discovered interesting threads beside what they was firstly searching 
for, outside of any SQL interest...
One of the problems is that new people often have trouble figuring out 
which list to ask a question. As a result, they either go away 
bewildered and lost (and become non-users) or they cross-post to every 
list they think might  be able to help (and thereby incur the wrath of 
those who see the separation of lists for efficiency as a Good Thing). 
I particularly don't like the idea of creating lists of newbies and 
"experienced users." Exactly when does one cross that line? And how 
many experienced users will end up, in the long run, being willing to 
monitor the newbie list where the same question will inevitably be 
raised multiple times?

This community is not yet so large -- and this list is not yet so busy 
-- that we can't stay together on one list, in my view. I'm as busy as 
anyone out there, I suspect, and I find time to monitor traffic and be 
fairly active.

If there *is* a need for some segmentation, we can get part way there 
by adopting some subject-line conventions so that the first N 
characters of a post tell you what the general subject is, making it 
perhaps easier and more efficient to monitor the traffic without 
further sub-dividing our already tiny family.
It's probably easyest to have one list archive to search in, in using 
your so usefull "Rev List Search" plugin, Richard, than to have to 
search inside many ones ;)

Best, Pierre
FWIW.
~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
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Re: Creating more (and specific) lists...Was ???

[Pierre Sahores]

I found this very low level traffic one :  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Le 5 sept. 04, à 00:41, Graham Samuel a écrit :
On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 10:53:01 -0700, Richard Gaskin 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

listed all the RR/MC lists he knew about. As well as all these, I 
thought there was a French-language one, but I can't seem to find it 
(someone asked me if it existed). Can any Francophone user say if 
there is or is not a French language RR list?

TIA
Graham
---
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Re: Rev 2.2.1 and PostgreSQL OK

[Pierre Sahores]

Thats cool ! Have fun ;-)
Best, Pierre
Le 2 sept. 04, à 09:47, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
Le 1 sept. 04, à 01:33, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
>> >>>  2) If this is the case then why is the err , invalid 
database type.
>>> >>> To see if postgres is running normally lauch the activity 
monitor
>>> app and search the postgres thread. To see if the "postgres" user 
is
>>> rightly set, test "su - postgres" at the shell prompt and, then if
>>> you are prompted for the password, type "postgres". If something
>>> goes wrong, postgres need to be reinstalled (prefer the Marc
>>> Liyanage's installer --
>>> ).
>> Sorry , don't know what and where the activity monitor is.
>> The su - postgres is ok. >> And I did use entropy's installation.
>>[Hershel-Fischs-Computer:~] hershel% su - postgres >Password:
>[Hershel-Fischs-Computer:~] postgres% /usr/local/bin/pg_ctl stop -D
>/usr/local/pgsql/data/ >waiting for postmaster to shut down..done
>postmaster successfully shut down
>[Hershel-Fischs-Computer:~] postgres% /usr/local/bin/postmaster -D
>/usr/local/pgsql/data -i >LOG:  database system was shut down at 
2004-08-31 19:11:05 EDT >LOG:  checkpoint record is at 0/C1E4D0 >LOG:  
redo record is at 0/C1E4D0; undo record is at 0/0; shutdown TRUE >LOG: 
 next transaction id: 6911; next oid: 19457
>LOG:  database system is ready.
OK, the database is cleanly loading and running. If you can't access it
from the Rev application, it can have to do with, at least :

- PHP not proeperly installed and configured in "httpd.conf"
I don't use PHP.
- the tcp/ip sockets support is not actived in the "hba.conf" file of 
the postgres server
Once I messed around with the "hba.conf" file and that was it 
don't even ask .. I had to reinstall PostgreSQL
I'v started the database with the -i flag as you could see above. Also 
it runs beautiful with RR 2.2.1, MacSQL and sqlboss.

Let me know the end ;)
Believe me I'd love to , but so far I can't use 2.5 because of this 
problem.
Any help is greatly appreciated. Hershel Fisch

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Re: OT: PostgreSQL.app

[Pierre Sahores]

Thanks Andre for the info :)
Best, Pierre
Le 1 sept. 04, à 16:33, Andre Garzia a écrit :
Hi Folks,
many mac users here are curious about PostgreSQL but don't want to 
pass by the arcane process of installing the server on their home box. 
I just founded a nice option. It's PostgreeSQLX.app, it's a full 
cocoa/objc app that wraps postgree inside it, like we do with bundles. 
So no server to install, just a nice app on your app folder and you 
double click it like any other when you want to use it. Pretty cool

http://perso.club-internet.fr/bgaufier/xhtml/prod_postgresql.xhtml
andre
--
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Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org
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Fwd: Google News Alert - runtime revolution

[Pierre Sahores]

:D
Début du message réexpédié :
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 1 septembre 2004 01:04:01 GMT+02:00
À: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Objet: Google News Alert - runtime revolution
DREAMCARD offers Hypercard-like environment
MacNN - USA
Revolution Dreamcard is a new easy-to-use development environment from
Runtime Revolution. Created for a wide variety of users (educators ...

APPLE Expo: Dreamcard simplifies programming
MacWorld - USA
Runtime Revolution announced at the Apple Expo in Paris the release of
Dreamcard, a HyperCard-like application that enables hobbyists, 
students
and other ...


This daily-once News Alert is brought to you by Google News (BETA)...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Remove this News Alert:
http://www.google.com/newsalerts/remove?s=fbd8482c1586a199&hl=en
Create another News Alert:
http://www.google.com/newsalerts?hl=en
Try Google News:
http://news.google.com/
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Re: New RunRev site...

[Pierre Sahores]

Dear Rev Team,
RR 2.5 + The Web Site. Congratulations and many Thanks ! This all is 
going to help us so much in both technical and marketing tasks :D

Kind Regards, Pierre
Le 31 août 04, à 20:23, Dan Shafer a écrit :
What can I say? Wow.
This is world-class both in design and in content. I found it easy to 
navigate, easy to understand the products and their differentiation, 
easy to buy my book ( :-) ) and aesthetically clean and simple.

Great job, folks. Really great.
On Aug 31, 2004, at 11:16 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
Recently, Chipp Walters wrote:
www.runrev.com
Really nice! Great job RunRev team!
Echo what Chipp said.
The information provided and the way it is presented is an absolutely
stellar improvement.  RunRev.com is now on par with other players in 
the
industry.  All the folks involved in this update truly deserve big 
kudos.

Well done.
Regards,
Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-
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Re: Revolution 2.5 Release Candidate 2

[Pierre Sahores]

Works fine there, including the RevOnline features ;D
Best, Pierre
Le 30 août 04, à 21:52, Mark Chia a écrit :
Hi Folks,
Release candidate 2 is now up for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux.
A few things to note:
You won't be able to access any of the external web browser links in
this yet, as they point to the updated web site which is currently
password protected as it gets finished.  The new site will go live when
we launch.
The content for the Learning Center is still not finished.  This is
something we can update online without having to release another  
version
of the product.  It will be up over the next couple of days.  The
installation process now detects if the correct video codec has been
installed.

The keys needed to unlock this release have not changed since beta 2.
Note that the store and key generation systems will be taken up and  
down
throughout the weekend as we upgrade them in final preparation for
release. Please do not email support if you are unable to get a key  
from
the system because it is down - support does not have access to the
system when it is down either.  Apologies in advance for any
inconvenience, this disruption is unavoidable and will create a better
system for all.

We're aware of an issue in the Documentation freezing for a minute or  
so
when accessing it with Web Notes turned on at the same time as
downloading a video from Rev Online.  We'll probably patch this in a
minor rebuild before we ship.

The Sample Stacks that used to be shipped with the product will be
included on the updated site as an optional download, this is so that
the new Sample Projects, which are carefully designed and commented for
learning, are the ones that new users are pointed to.  We will also be
including the new Externals SDK on the updated web site when it goes
live.
At this time we are no longer able to respond to minor glitches or
annoyances reported.  This is because we must change as little as
possible in any rebuild to ensure we don't introduce any new issues.
Please do not give these URLs out.  Classic is still to follow.
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/linux.tgz
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolution-2.5- 
rc2.i386.rpm
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revsetup.exe
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolution.zip
http://www.runrev.com/downloads/distributions/2.5RC2/revolutionosx.dmg

Mark
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Re: db connection

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 31 août 04, à 00:25, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
On Monday, August 30, 2004, at 05:02 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Hello Hershel,
Did you try this :
put  
revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","localhost","projetsdac","postgres","pos 
tgres") into PGLinkOpen
with the second "postgres" item as the default postgres user password  
(to be replaced by the right one if you changed it) ?
Ok ,
1) I don't have a password on my Db.
If Postgres is rightly installed, the default system postgres (with  
default "postgres" password") has been created during the installation  
process : so it exists. Else the installation process didn't complete.

2) If this is the case then why is the err , invalid database type.
To see if postgres is running normally lauch the activity monitor app  
and search the postgres thread. To see if the "postgres" user is  
rightly set, test "su - postgres" at the shell prompt and, then if you  
are prompted for the password, type "postgres". If something goes  
wrong, postgres need to be reinstalled (prefer the Marc Liyanage's  
installer -- <http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/postgresql/>).

3) Using  X 10.2.8
Seems OK.
4) "put  revOpenDatabase("MySQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)" when I  
don't have mySql running, into the message box crashes or Freezes RR.
Don't tell RR to connect MySQL if you want to access a PostgreSQL  
server...

Thanks in advanced. Hershel
Hope this can help,
Best, Pierre

Works there, at least under Panther.
Le 30 août 04, à 22:03, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
Hi all,
put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)   
revdberr,invalid database type . Is this because its not the final  
release  ?
Hershel Fisch
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Re: db connection

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Hershel,
Did you try this :
put  
revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","localhost","projetsdac","postgres","postg 
res") into PGLinkOpen
with the second "postgres" item as the default postgres user password  
(to be replaced by the right one if you changed it) ?

Works there, at least under Panther.
Le 30 août 04, à 22:03, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
Hi all,
put  revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","127.0.0.1","test",postgres,)   
revdberr,invalid database type . Is this because its not the final  
release  ?
Hershel Fisch
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Re: Windows printing

[Pierre Sahores]

Jacque,
Did you test in setting the windows specific properties "set the 
formatForPrinting of stack to {true | false}" to true ?

Le 28 août 04, à 19:21, J. Landman Gay a écrit :
I'm getting some weird and frustrating results when printing on 
Windows XP. I have a report that collects data and places it into two 
fields on a card in a printing stack. The two fields are next to each 
other, both are the length of the printing stack, and they simulate a 
2-column printout. On screen it looks fine. The printing stack has its 
formatForPrinting set to true.

My script fills both fields, prints the card, prints a break, then 
repeats until the data is gone.

Depending partly on the font I use and partly on something I can't 
imagine, printouts are scrambled. Sometimes only one word prints per 
line, which makes Windows think a 7 page printout is about 1200 pages. 
Other times only hex gibberish is printed. Other times, the bottom 
third of the page is left empty and then a blank page prints instead 
after every printed one (i.e., two-thirds of page 1 prints, the a 
blank sheet, then two-thirds of page 2 prints, then a blank sheet, 
etc.)

We have tried different printer drivers with various results, but none 
of them are entirely correct.

This is making me crazy. Does anyone have suggestions? I know I could 
probably format the pages in html and print from a web browser but we 
don't want to.

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Rép : Database Problems w/ Linux Standalones (correction)...

[Pierre Sahores]

ot; && quote && t && quote && "|" && PgPath)
end parsesql
and some standard SQL requests using the upon SQL's parser (examples) :
One :
put parsesql("select * from cpacpcst where rneetabl ilike '%" & testne  
& "%'") into sreply
...and an other :
 if char 5 to -1 of item itemoffset("NRC=",PostIn) of PostIn is  
"insert" then get parsesql("insert into cpacpcst" && presave(PostIn &  
"¶dems"))
  else get parsesql("update cpacpcst set" && presave(PostIn & "¶dems")  
&& "where recordid='" & char 5 to -1 of item itemoffset("NRC=",PostIn)  
of PostIn & "'")
All works very fine in production mode with up to hundreds connections  
peer seconds (75% write-mode), since 09/2000, only under the linux  
platform, the RevDB doing a best job than the upon scripts under the  
Panther platform.

Best Regards,
Pierre
Le 25 août 04, à 20:19, Frank D. Engel, Jr. a écrit :
Okay, here is an example of what is happening.
The attached revolution file contains a button and a text field (used  
as a debugging log type of thing).

Again, I use Studio version 2.2.1 under Mac OS X, and I built three  
versions of the standalone: Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux.

The Windows and Mac OS X versions work "as advertised", but the Linux  
version seems to exit the handlers after dumping the first line of  
text to the log field.  If I comment out the line with the  
revOpenDatabase and uncomment the second line, then it does not try to  
connect, so the rest of the script works fine.

I could understand better if I was getting an error message back from  
revOpenDatabase, but *all* running handlers seem to be exiting -- not  
just the one containing the function call.

If it would help, I could *try* to get a Solaris/SPARC or Irix opinion  
on the issue, but it will take some time, as I will need to set up the  
hardware (I have those systems disconnected right now), and I don't  
think I even have Solaris installed on my SparcStation (it would be  
version 8, on my painfully slow SS LX).

On Aug 24, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
Yes, but even after I changed the text to all lower-case, it still  
doesn't work.

I hadn't even thought of the case sensitivity -- good catch, but  
still not working  :-(

On Aug 24, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Linux just seems
to be more case-sensitive than Mac or Win.
That would be because it is.  ;-)
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Re: Database Problems w/ Linux Standalones...

[Pierre Sahores]

p; t && quote && "|" && PgPath)
end parsesql
and some standard SQL requests using the upon SQL's parser (examples) :
One :
put parsesql("select * from cpacpcst where rneetabl ilike '%" & testne  
& "%'") into sreply
...and an other :
 if char 5 to -1 of item itemoffset("NRC=",PostIn) of PostIn is  
"insert" then get parsesql("insert into cpacpcst" && presave(PostIn &  
"¶dems"))
  else get parsesql("update cpacpcst set" && presave(PostIn & "¶dems")  
&& "where recordid='" & char 5 to -1 of item itemoffset("NRC=",PostIn)  
of PostIn & "'")
All works very fine in production mode with up to hundreds connections  
peer seconds (75% write-mode), since 09/2000, only under the linux  
platform, the RevDB doing a best job than the upon scripts under the  
Panther platform.

Best Regards,
Pierre
Le 25 août 04, à 20:19, Frank D. Engel, Jr. a écrit :
Okay, here is an example of what is happening.
The attached revolution file contains a button and a text field (used  
as a debugging log type of thing).

Again, I use Studio version 2.2.1 under Mac OS X, and I built three  
versions of the standalone: Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux.

The Windows and Mac OS X versions work "as advertised", but the Linux  
version seems to exit the handlers after dumping the first line of  
text to the log field.  If I comment out the line with the  
revOpenDatabase and uncomment the second line, then it does not try to  
connect, so the rest of the script works fine.

I could understand better if I was getting an error message back from  
revOpenDatabase, but *all* running handlers seem to be exiting -- not  
just the one containing the function call.

If it would help, I could *try* to get a Solaris/SPARC or Irix opinion  
on the issue, but it will take some time, as I will need to set up the  
hardware (I have those systems disconnected right now), and I don't  
think I even have Solaris installed on my SparcStation (it would be  
version 8, on my painfully slow SS LX).

On Aug 24, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
Yes, but even after I changed the text to all lower-case, it still  
doesn't work.

I hadn't even thought of the case sensitivity -- good catch, but  
still not working  :-(

On Aug 24, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Linux just seems
to be more case-sensitive than Mac or Win.
That would be because it is.  ;-)
--
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http://www.rpsystems.net
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Re: Silent beeps

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Jacque,
Don't have MacOS 10.2.8 there anymore but only the 10.3.5. Just could 
test the beep command from the messagebox under 2.2.1 and 2.5b2 and all 
worked fine.

Don't know if that can help, but...
Kind Regards,
Pierre
Le 23 août 04, à 21:13, J. Landman Gay a écrit :
Is it just me, or is the "beep" command broken on MacOS 10.2.8? It 
does appear to work on my OS 10.2.3 machine.

I get beeps from the Finder, but not from the engine using either Rev 
or MC. I've reset the playloudness but it doesn't help. I get the same 
results with both Rev 2.2.1 and the new 2.5 beta.

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Re: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 21 août 04, à 12:38, Wouter a écrit :
Interesting..., even if M$ is so much often like the weather ;-)
But if you read links like this one, may be something will come up 
after the release of the new Xbox.

http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,61065,00.html
M$ bought VPC and  they killed Real PC.
They are going to use the powerpc chipset in their new Xbox.
And  they are going to use VPC as emulator.
"Microsoft will use the Virtual PC technology it acquired from 
Connectix last year to provide backward-compatibility with the current 
generation of Xbox games."

If the speedbump for VPC in the Xbox is also ported to the VPC for the 
mac, may be VPC will become really useful.
(If M$ is not going to release this technology may be geeks will 
extract it from the Xbox ;-)

Dreaming on...
WA
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Re: OT: Virtual PC vs "Real" PC

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 20 août 04, à 21:16, Marian Petrides a écrit :
No, I don't think you mentioned how absolutely, pathetically, 
ridiculously slow VPC is. ;-
In my remind, Virtual PC 2 was, in 1997 and under a G3 266, running 
Win95 faster than VirtualPC 6 is running Win2000 Pro under my actual 
PWB G4 1 Ghz with 1 Go of RAM... Just a toy, only able to start 
anything today and finish it next month, if the weather... ;)
Besides a cheap low-end WinTel box (the one I use to test low end 
configurations is a P2, 300 mHz laptop running Win98)  is probably not 
a whole lot more than what VPC would cost.

M
On Aug 20, 2004, at 3:09 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
3. Did I mention how slooow VPC is? :-D
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Re: Revolution seems ideal for Linux GUIs

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Paul,
As an example, Revo is the only tool i use to build my PostgreSQL's 
management tools (as a dedicated n-tier front-end/application server 
networked app), from DB creation to pg_dumps ;) Best, this way let me 
get the best from the "object oriented" features of Postgres.

Le 17 août 04, à 01:54, Paul Arnott a écrit :
Hello again,
Having played around with different versions of Linux, it seems that 
the biggest impediment to uptake is a lack of GUI tools to perform 
tasks like maintaining servers and the like. I've since found a fairly 
good solution in the form of Webmin, which uses a browser interface to 
do these sort of jobs in a graphical environment. Webmin is written is 
a bunch of CGI programs written in Perl, and is an excellent tool.
However, having only recently discovered the wonderful world of 
Revolution, it would seem that there is a huge market for Rev 
applications that would perform tasks usually done through a command 
line. Is Rev able to drop stuff into a shell?
Cheers
Paul
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Re: Is this possible in RR?

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Andre,
This point of vue is usefull too ;) Because i'm with Postgres as in 
Sancho's 'Tiags, i forget, some times that any body don't need nor like 
my second prefered shoes, after the Rev's ones, naturally ;D

With you, back to the previous proposal : Valentina as local DB and 
Postgres as the remote centralisation's one. And in this way, as you 
previously spoked about in the same thread, it will be usefull to take 
care in about fine designing the ways the local to remote and the 
remote to local updates will have to be handled...

Best, Pierre
Le 16 août 04, à 18:40, Andre Garzia a écrit :
On Aug 16, 2004, at 1:15 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
You could also use PostgreSQL locally and save yourself some 
licensing costs.
Why didn't i think at this. Tied, probably ;-!  Thanks, Frank for 
pointing us in this direction ;)

100 times true, even for a newbie under MacOS X in getting the cool 
Marc Liyanage's installer at

<http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosxpostgresql>

Folks,
beware that maybe, the end user is not inclined to mantain a 
PostgreSQL instalation on his home machine.  For example, a simple 
normal user wants to create a blog. He can use Movable Type which is 
great, but to use it, he need MySQL, Apache and PHP. The mac comes 
with apache and there are installer packages for PHP and MySQL at Marc 
Liynages page but the normal user will be intimidated by the proceess, 
and also, a RDBMS is not something that you leave unatended. The user 
might by fiddling with his system, prevent PostgreSQL to run at 
startup without even knowing that he did this, then when launching 
Paul app, the app will fail and the user will have no clue on what to 
do!!!

Normal, plain users, the ones that just want to use a computer, not to 
understand a computer, should not be forced to install and mantain a 
complex thing like MySQL/PostgreSQL. I know the installers are pretty 
much forward, but I hope that I am being clear, it's like giving a 18 
wheel truck to a teenager who just got his car license and saying: "go 
to the bakery, bring me bread.". If the teenager is carefull enough, 
things will work out, but a single mistake...

The big advantage of Valentina is that: there's no instalation 
proccess, there's no maintanance, in fact it will all be inside the 
mac bundle, he might not even see the vdb files. You'll spend $300 
now, but the chance that this will free you from hours of support and 
pain are very good, and you can always use it on other projects as 
well!

Cheers
andre
PS: no, I don't have a Valentina license, I am saving for one or for 
SQLite.

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Re: Is this possible in RR?

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 16 août 04, à 16:38, Frank D. Engel, Jr. a écrit :
Question: These records would typically be over 5000 animals with 
possibly 20 to 30 records each. Would I use a SQL database, XML, 
Arrays, or cards to store the data? (sorry, I've still a lot to 
learn, obviously!!!)
Rev binded to Valentina (local DB) and PostgreSQL (remote DB)...
You could also use PostgreSQL locally and save yourself some licensing 
costs.
Why didn't i think at this. Tied, probably ;-!  Thanks, Frank for 
pointing us in this direction ;)

100 times true, even for a newbie under MacOS X in getting the cool 
Marc Liyanage's installer at

<http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosxpostgresql>
 or under Windows in using the PostgreSQL Beta 8.0 and the windows 
dedicated tools coming with it at

<http://www.postgresql.org> and <http://pgreplicator.sourceforge.net/>
I'm using PG all the time under both Linux and MacOS X (can help) but 
havn't begin to test and work with the replicator for yet (can't help).
I would advise you NOT to store the data internally to the 
application, since you will probably want to use standalones when 
distributing to the various locations (otherwise each location would 
need a Rev license), and the data would be lost when closing the 
program if the data is stored internally in a standalone.
Same...
I would suggest (as an example) that you set up a local database at 
each location (PostgreSQL would be fine, and it is free) which would 
store the information locally, and use a central server at some other 
location to pool the data for all of the different locations together 
for the central staff.  Include a feature in the program you 
distribute to the different locations to upload any modifications to 
the central server when a connection is present.
Same again ;)
There are of course other ways to do this, but this would be one 
example you might consider.


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Re: Is this possible in RR?

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 16 août 04, à 03:43, Paul a écrit :
Dear list,
As a complete programming newbie, first I should say, that I'm glad to 
be in a community that actually welcomes us newbies, even try to 
attract us, thanks!!!.
I haven't bought a Rev license yet as I'm not (100%) sure the 
application I'm planning is possible in Revolution, so I have a few 
questions that I hope someone will help with!!!
The company I'm looking to design the application for, is a vertically 
integrated cattle company, meaning they have breeding properties, 
feedlots and an abattoir (slaughterhouse)

Requirements
1.What I'm hoping to do is build a system where each of the breeding 
properties can record enter cattle weight (and other) details,and have 
the application work out an individual's daily weight gain and 
forecast future weights.

Question: These records would typically be over 5000 animals with 
possibly 20 to 30 records each. Would I use a SQL database, XML, 
Arrays, or cards to store the data? (sorry, I've still a lot to learn, 
obviously!!!)
Rev binded to Valentina (local DB) and PostgreSQL (remote DB)...
2.This info needs to be accessable over the web by the feedlot, so 
that the manager can forecast his feed requirements well in advance of 
the cattle arriving, similarly the slaughterhouse needs access so they 
can 'forward sell' the resulting meat. They would also be inputting 
weight and carcass and price data for feedback to the breeders. (who 
also need access)

3. Web access can be flaky in the more remote areas, so I don't want a 
typical 'web application', rather something more along the lines of 
the excellent GoRevnet. That is, I would need the program to be able 
to operate as a local application, then by clicking a button, connect 
to a server, synchronise with the database, and upload 'new' 
information and download 'new' information, automatically
See upon..
4. The info would need to be segregated by password so that indiviual 
breeders would only have access to their own info, but head office 
would have access to everything. Similarly the feedlot could access 
the breeder records but not slaughterhouse records.
Rev Transcript scripting...
5. It would also need some fairly flexible reporting functionality
I know the first thing ppl will say is to 'try something less 
complicated first and work up to a project like this', which is what I 
will do, but although I think this can be done in Rev, I don't want to 
buy a license, without knowing that it can eventually done.
As Sarah, Dan, Andre and more, i work all the time on such kind of apps 
and i wouldn't want to use an other core dev tool than Revolution to 
build them :D

Thanks in advance
Paul
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Re: Shell was( Rev Web Solutions?)

[Pierre Sahores]

Hi Hershel,
On witch platform are you planning to develop your app ? I can provide  
you Linux and MacOS X example apps you could use as starter point.

Best, Pierre
Le 16 août 04, à 05:24, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
On Tuesday, August 3, 2004, at 04:00 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
but I'd still like to try out and see how to work with shell() for  
other things as you mentioned above for maintenance purposes . The  
question, where I can get some education on that .
About general PostgreSQL + Metacard/Revolution posts :
<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution in CGI mode :
<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sadhu>
About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution set up as a  
web/eai applications server :
<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sahores>
I looked over these links but didn't get anywhere. I need to know how  
to access the first postgres db command and I'll try to get on from  
there.
I tryed to put just a simple command " put  shell(" cd -")" or "shell  
("ls ..") and got an error Script: missing '"' after literal or  
command not found.
Thanks , Hershel
Best, Pierre
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Re: Educational uses for Rev

[Pierre Sahores]

Richard and All,
I heard exactly the same, including the Visual Interdev framework...
Best,
Le 16 août 04, à 00:11, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
Wolfgang M.Bereuter wrote:
On 15.08.2004, at 04:19, Richard Gaskin wrote:
If you need to embarass 'em you can wait till they say that at a 
meeting
and point out that Visual Basic was prototyped on a Mac using 
SuperCard
(heard it from a Microsoft employee).
Is that true?
I heard it from a Microsoft employee.
--
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 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: NT4

[Pierre Sahores]

I did it in 09/2000 (NT4/SP5) and it worked like a charm but i can't 
yet remerber about the details (don't work since 01/2001 with this 
customer)...

Le 13 août 04, à 02:02, Robert Poreda a écrit :
Has anyone created a Revolution CGI explicitly for NT4?
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Re: Rep : Quit in Mac OS X

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 12 août 04, à 20:33, Yves COPPE a écrit :
Le 12-août-04, à 19:55, Klaus Major a écrit :
Bon soir Yves,
Le 12-août-04, à 19:41, Pierre Sahores a écrit :
Hello Yves,
Along a cool Jeff Beck's  winyle is playing here all over the 
house...
Beck-O-La?
Hi Klaus,
superstition 
Mon ami, je ne suis pas Pierre!
:-D
Mais j'aime la musique de Jeff B. aussi :-)
sorry, Pierre, usually Klaus answer to my questions, so the mistake !
a very excusable mistake as long as Klaus will stay one of our prefered 
musicien too :D
but we are all fan of Jeff Beck !
Greetings.
Yves COPPE
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Re: dBase lib

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Dave,
I'm sure you can code your dBase lib in using transcript even if nobody 
else, there, seems to use such kind of stuff for yet. If i had to do 
the job, i would try to translate an other language dBase lib to 
Transcript instead of starting from scratch.

I don't know if it can be usefull but i know that François Jouen has 
build this kind of dBase lib in using the Rebol scripting language. He 
showed me the resulting app and i could see that it works fine. Perhaps 
could you download the François Jouen's libs from the Rebol developers 
resources (all freeware) from the www.rebol.com site and have an eye on 
them to see if you can translate them to native Transcript code.

Hope this can help :)
Best, Pierre
Le 12 août 04, à 20:26, Dave LeYanna a écrit :
Points well taken, none the less...
Let me take a different approach here. How about creating libs (not an
external) that have functions like open, close, set order to, seek, 
append,
delete, pack, get, put and so on. The tables are in use now I just 
want to
use Rev as a front end without ODBC. However if nothing like this 
exists I
suppose that I'll have to decide if I want to take the time to make it 
(not
likely) or not use Rev as the front end. I wonder about Python...

Dave
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan 
Schenkel
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:49 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: RE: dBase lib

--- Dave LeYanna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I know that is one way to do it but I wanted native access (direct
file
access) because of difficulties in setting up ODBC on client desktops
and the problems with mixed OS environments.
Thanks for your help. This may be the way that I have to go...
Dave
Hi Dave,
Though the file format itself is not overly
complicated and well documented online, the hard part
is creating the actual database engine that would
parse your SQL commands and spit out the result of
your SELECT.
The ODBC driver takes care of all that ; and with
Valentina, MySQL, PostgreSQL and other databases
natively supported, hardly anyone will see the need to
write a native driver for dBase files -- now if this
had been 8 years ago...
Jan Schenkel.
=
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time."
(La Rochefoucauld)


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Re: Rep : Quit in Mac OS X

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Yves,
Along a cool Jeff Beck's  winyle is playing here all over the house...
I didn't have to deal with this so i'm not sure to be able to be handy 
and went directly to the list archives to see how friends are trapping 
such kind of events. Thanks to all of them ;)

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2003-January/003689.html>
and
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-December/003368.html>
It seems to have to do with how OS X trap the quit appleevent message 
that Rev send to the system when pulling down the quit item.

Hope this can help :D
Best, Pierre
Le 12 août 04, à 17:04, Yves COPPE a écrit :
Hi Pierre,
I have a main stack used as a splashcreen and substacks
where have I to place the shutdonwrequest ??
I have placed it in a substacks
when I open my standAlone and close it afterwards immediately, it works
when I opern mu standAlone and open afterwards others substacks, work 
with the app and then choose "quitter " (French System) in the 
application menu, the message is not sent and the app merely quit 
without the script in the shutdown message

Thank you for your help.
Amicalement.
Yves COPPE
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Re: PostgreSQL 8 beta avail.

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello List,
And the good news is that this PostgreSQL 8.0 issue will be, beside the 
*NIX and Mac OS X, issues, the first one natively available for the 
windows platform too (no more curses emulation at all) !!!

PostgreSQL 8.0 will support many new improvements, including 
tablespaces magagment and lots more. For production state apps, it's 
still recommanded to use the PostgreSQL 7.4.3 issue...

PostgreSQL : the most  friendly ACID RDBMS available to suit our 
WEB/EAI oriented Revolution centric developments (beside the expensive 
Sybase ASE 12.5 and before the less suitable Oracle 10g).

Best, Pierre
Le 11 août 04, à 21:22, Dave LeYanna a écrit :
FYI The beta version of PostgreSQL 8.0 is available. The Windows 
installer
went without a hitch and it comes with a Windows admin utility. I'll be
trying it out with Rev over the next couple of days...

Dave
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Re: opening sockets and cpu usage

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello,
Le 10 août 04, à 22:59, Dar Scott a écrit :
On Aug 10, 2004, at 2:26 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
It looks like a bad thread is running when any socket is open.  It 
might be polling.

This looks like bugzilla food to me.
I don't see any new threads added.  A polling thread might be OK under 
some conditions.

Normally Rev makes 200 system calls a second, but with sockets on, it 
makes about 80,000.
... and 1/20 of the sended requests, using the "open socket" command 
don't never arrive to destination... This is an Metacard historical 
bug. As a workaround, i avoid to use this command and use the "POST 
Method" to the Apache port + a php sockets listener/translator instead, 
where the php script is binded, first side, to Apache on port 80 and, 
second side, to the Revolution server-side app on the port  this 
app accept connection :

accept connections on port "" with message "newconnect"
Works just as expected and take advantage of the Apache+PHP ability to 
replace MC/Rev in what represants, in my opinion, one of its oldest and 
most dangerous MC/Rev limitation...

The php script example can be found in the list archives in searching 
about the Metacard+PostgreSQL threads.

Best, Pierre
Dar Scott
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Re: Rev's Web-centricity (was: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea tosell Dan's book widely))

[Pierre Sahores]

lt;:(

Would Google ads do better than Slashdot's? Why not try both.
Again, Fruity
Loops Studio is available on Tucows - Wouldn't that be part of
its success?
No, they had magazines include them on CDs, make articles on them and 
they
make IMPRESSIVE demos of the capabilities of their products. Try their
demo, it's spectacular and not as expensive as RR. Which is the 
source of
their success? It certainly is not the features which we could 
compare as
powerful as RR's.

This thread is a definitely good marketing tutor, thinktank!
cheers
Xavier
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Re: Rev 2.2.1 for Linux very impressive !

[Pierre Sahores]

Hi Troy,
On Aug 7, 2004, at 10:57 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
I suppose that the Darwin engine + the Linux distribution stacks are 
eligibles there but didn't test this for my own.
I'm running X11 under OSX/Darwin at this point. I plan to do some 
tests with the linux distribution of Rev to see if it is even 
possible.
Please, let me know how it goes ;-)
I'm also running Linux under VirtualPC and a on real machine (P3/833 + 
512 megs).
The good thing with Linux is that, in about server-side apps, it's 
running very fast, even on PIII configs !

Overall I've been really pleased with the Linux version of Rev.
--
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RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net
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Re: Rev 2.2.1 for Linux very impressive !

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 7 août 04, à 23:31, Troy Rollins a écrit :
On Aug 7, 2004, at 3:36 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Just to share that i discovered that Rev 2.2.1 is realy impressive 
under Linux x86. Works yet just as expected : i can go head with it 
under the linux platform too. Cool, cool, cool ;)
Yes, I have a Linux system up and running and it is really nice, but 
now I'm wondering - has anyone tried the Linux version of Revolution 
running under X11 Darwin?
I suppose that the Darwin engine + the Linux distribution stacks are 
eligibles there but didn't test this for my own.
--
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Rev 2.2.1 for Linux very impressive !

[Pierre Sahores]

Just to share that i discovered that Rev 2.2.1 is realy impressive 
under Linux x86. Works yet just as expected : i can go head with it 
under the linux platform too. Cool, cool, cool ;)

Best Regards, Pierre
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Re: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 7 août 04, à 20:18, Dan Shafer a écrit :
 They're using Java almost exclusively for server-side stuff these 
days; very few new apps are being written in pure Java for xplat 
deployment.
And on the server-side, Java is only usable to code WEB / EAI 
applications servers, mainly not as is in core Java but in using lots 
of different frameworks and components to be set-up together witch 
means : Java is mainly used by teams in sharing/storing the work via 
CVS servers, not persons working alone from the begining to the end of 
the life-cycle of a product.

Java is mainly a low-level development paradigm, even if because the 
framworks and J2EE platforms about marketing, all is done to let us 
expect something more usefull and different. The "best thing" with Java 
is that this language is usable by the low-level developers the 
computing and consulting compagnies are prospecting for low costs all 
over the world, in India, Pakinstan, China or Maroco.

In about Desktop apps, Java is just not the tool to use. Too slow, even 
in replacing the Swing libraries by the Eclipse's SWT ones...

Regards, Pierre

~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
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Re: Rev's Mac-Centricity (Was: Plea to sell Dan's book widely)

[Pierre Sahores]

Thanks for this debate, Dan and Chipp,
Best Regards, Pierre
Le 7 août 04, à 19:19, Dan Shafer a écrit :
Chipp.
You knew I'd have to chime in here. :-)
Not simply to be contrarian, but I do not believe RR has any serious 
chance of making real inroads into other platforms. Period. No matter 
what they do. Over the decades -- yes, decades! -- I've been in this 
business, I bet I've seen 100 or more development platforms, 
languages, and tools emerge that would have made Windows programmers 
more productive and efficient. Not one of them thrived. Only a few 
survived.

Now you could go through the list and find something wrong with every 
one of them, I'm sure. A reason they failed. But I submit that if in 
all that time, no new language or tool that wasn't backed by a huge 
company (Microsoft in particular but also Sun and IBM and, for a while 
at least, Borland) ever made real inroads. My belief -- and I confess 
that it is only a belief, not something I can support with anything 
stronger than my own experiences an insights -- is that Windows 
developers are principally if not exclusively interested in developing 
for the Windows platform and that the Bandwagon Effect results in the 
vast majority of them using mainstream tools. Hell, Java doesn't even 
have significant presence among pure Windows developers; it's been 
shifted to the enterprise/server side of the equation and Microsoft is 
on the verge of dislodging even that penetration.

Oh, sure, there is a minuscule number of programmers who experience a 
Smalltalk or a Revolution or an Objective C and say, "Wow, I can be 
way more productive than my competitors with this. I think I'll use it 
instead of C++ or C#." And some of them stick with their 
out-of-the-mainstream tools. But most don't. Eventually, the fact that 
95% of their colleagues are using other tools with widespread library 
support, fellow programmers to exchange code and ideas with, and all 
the other components of the Bandwagon Effect drag most of them back to 
the mainstream tools.

This is true even on the Mac. Only a minority of desktop app 
developers who develop  for the Mac are ultimately interested in 
selling Windows products. (I'm not saying this *should* be the case, 
but it's a reality nonetheless.) CodeWarrior lets hard-core C types 
deliver cross-platform but they're a bit player on both sides of the 
fence. Apple's dev tools, esp under OS X, are awesome and powerful. 
Every single Mac programmer I know uses them and not Revolution 
despite the fact that they could use Rev and greatly expand their 
market. In some cases, they are working for an all-Mac customer or 
client base. In  others, they just don't care; they'd rather build 
apps with all of the coolness and nuance of a Mac app and forego the 
Windows marketplace than compromise. In effect, this is another face 
of the same argument you make for why RR needs to make the product 
less Mac-centric: developers on those "other" platforms want to see 
tools that feel like those platforms.

At the end of the day, RR has to find niches where cross-platform 
development is important or even critical. Those niches exist. But 
they are not mainstream programmers on either platform (and certainly 
not on *nix, whose developers seem to prefer Open Source tools). To 
delude itself into thinking it will *ever* make significant inroads 
into any traditional programming market would, I think, be the end of 
RR. I think they should focus exclusively on  the folks I call 
Inventive Users who are not full-time professional coders, who can 
make a tool switch without a huge technical or social cost, and who 
are at least interested in if not motivated by the possibility of 
cross-platform development.

As it happens, I think that audience is at least 10 times as large as 
the professional programming audience and vastly more receptive to new 
development tools and technologies. But reaching that audience is 
tricky.

On Aug 6, 2004, at 11:15 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
I also believe there is too much 'Mac' centric focus in RR. The GUI 
is completely Mac based, and so is much of the marketing focus. 
Though, this does represent the 'low-hanging fruit', RR won't ever 
truly make inroads onto other platforms w/out a concerted marketing 
effort by the company.
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Re: [ANN] vector to pdf

[Pierre Sahores]

Alejandro,
Your "vector2pdf" stack works fine there under both Panther 10.3.4 and 
Suse-Linux 8.2 Pro (MC 2.5 in both cases).

The exported PDF files opens OK under Apercu and Acrobat Reader 6 
(MacOS) and under Acrobat 5 (Linux). They don't open under KGhostView 
0.13.2 / KDE 3.1.1 (Linux) and under Ghostscript 7.05.6 (Linux), witch 
popups an error message saying that the file has a corrupted "%EOF" 
marker or gaberage after the "%EOF".

Kind Regards,
Pierre
Le 5 août 04, à 05:59, Alejandro Tejada a écrit :
on Wed, 4 Aug 2004
Jim Hurley wrote:
Actually  you have solved my needs for a PDF
exporter within RunRev
with your generous work allowing us to export RunRev
graphics as an
Illustrator file.
I'm glad that you find useful that handler.
Notice, Jim, the pdf export handler is
almost identical to the AI export handler.
If you are using FreeHand, then i suggest that you
use the pdf export handler because it solves
some errors in the AI handler.
FreeHand opens the PDF without problems.
Ilustrator warns about an error and does not opens
the PDF.
Read a previous post on this topic
Pierre Sahores wrote:
Will spend a couple of hours with it (Linux,
Panther).
Thanks Pierre. I'll look forward to your review.
al
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Re: [ANN] vector to pdf

[Pierre Sahores]

Thanks Alejandro,
Will spend a couple of hours with it (Linux, Panther).
Best, Pierre
Le 4 août 04, à 02:28, Alejandro Tejada a écrit :
Hi Developers,
After a lot of discussion about the need of
pdf in this platform, i get surprised that no
interest showed to this handler to export
the vector graphics of a stack as pdf.
It's a humble start to learn to write pdf
from within RR/MC.
I just ask for feedback on PDF readers error messages
on linux and mac os x.
Just in case that the original message
get lost in the mail, i'll post here again:
on Sun, 25 Jul 2004
Alejandro Tejada wrote:
Hi Developers,
Download the stack "vector2pdf":
_http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/vector2pdf.zip_
<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/vector2pdf.zip>
This shows a handler to export vector graphics as
pdf. When Acrobat Reader 5 opens the file, it still
shows the message "Rebuilding reference table",
but at least the file opens... :-))
Inform to the mail list about any incompabilities
and error messages with Acrobat 6 and Readers from
Mac OS X and Linux.
If you want to help to write the code needed to
write text and images with this handler, download
the PDF reference manual. Look in Google for
"PDF reference manual".
Thanks a lot to Richard Gaskin for his help with
the colornames funtions.
al

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Re: Advise on enterprize application + clustering

[Pierre Sahores]

a a form
  to the server.
;)
Cool and very "pedagogique" (as we say so much, there, in France) post 
! Thanks, Xavier :D

Best, Pierre

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andre
Garzia
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 00:08
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Advise on enterprize application.

On Aug 2, 2004, at 6:51 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
Andre-
I'd have to agree with Trevor here that a multi-tiered approach is 
the
way to go. I think you'll have an easier time of it than trying to
stuff everything into a giant rev app (not to mention an easier time
doing maintenance in the long run).

Mark,
Thanks! Already on that path! I just need to know how to make that
database library work in the mc engine... it's not there...
Andre

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Re: Advise on enterprize application.

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Andre,
I will answer to your post tonight. In short, the way is to have all 
your stuff binded to the standard Apache's 80 port trought sockets 
translators/listeners able to use the 80 port to provide the 
requests/replies over the web and to have your server-sided Rev apps 
connectables to the Apache default port from they own private/protected 
(> 1024) port. I use, for my own, a 10 lines .PHP script as the sockets 
translator. You can find it in searching the archives.

Because lots to do until 21 PM, more detals tonight :)
Best,
Le 2 août 04, à 22:36, Andre Garzia a écrit :
Hi Folks,
I was hired to build a simple app here in brazil, I should take care 
of managing contacts and projects for a small company. As a common 
practice here in the country, they changed the project as the game was 
going and now the only thing it doesn't do is to babysit the CEO 
daughter, but okay, I could cope with the spec changes, it's just a 
huge db anway. Now the sky has fallen, they want their app to talk to 
the other franchise apps, meaning theres a company here at Rio de 
Janeiro, another at Sao Paulo and yet another at Porto Alegre, and 
they want to exchange data, they want the program to run everywhere 
and they've got lot's of firewalls since they are inside a university.

I was going like this, client app in Rev, MySQL running in a server, 
everyone access the server. This ain't working They can't open 
connections to the server running at my ISP, I can, I tested it in 
three machines on different networks they can't change their 
firewalls policies and they want to share data

I am now thinking in doing the other way, I make the server using my 
webserver stack and valentina, and they access it by the web, they can 
pass thru the firewall to do webrequests... but that's ugly I hate 
deploying apps using web interface. It's just simple DBs with 6 tables 
and couple joins... should be easy

I look forward to some advise for I must deliver this yesterday, and 
they just phoned to say that the other companies will use the program, 
that's why I am in a hurry... that's also the money that should take 
me to malta. And since they are publishing and marketing company they 
know nothing of IT they think that for them to use an app and for 
outside-of-lan-ambient people to use the same app is trivial 
hell! firewalls!!! fake IPs!!

anyone here got an advise or idea, I am begining again from the 
scratch so any advise is good.

andre
PS: and if I tell I need more time, they just dump me and use another 
contractant pretty cool ain't it.


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http://studio.soapdog.org
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Re: Rev Web Solutions?

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 2 août 04, à 18:56, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
On Monday, August 2, 2004, at 06:18 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Le 2 août 04, à 06:24, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
On Sunday, August 1, 2004, at 07:45 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Le 1 août 04, à 23:32, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
On Saturday, July 31, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Hi,
Take care about the fact that the way i expose don't use the RevDB  
lib but direct shell() calls to the psql PostgreSQL's server-side  
connector.
Now technical what is the difference between the two methods ?
1.- worked fine years before the introduction of the RevDB lib
2.- those MC/Rev applications servers are only doing what they are  
doing the best : working on the data presentation layer, in beetwin  
the Web server (one side) and (second side) the shell() + psql  
connector to the ACID compliant PostgreSQL RDBMS.
3.- works fine and very fast in all situations, including  
administration tasks alike new databases and tables creations or  
automatic "pg_dump" (backups) operations without stopping the  
production statu of the PostgreSQL server.
4.- least but not least : i didn't, at this time, got enought time to  
test RevDB and see if it's mature in about handling critical  
production tasks (over 400 connections/secs, 75% write mode  
transactions).
Well the the db library in my opinion is good and fast , I do all kind  
of SQL work without any problems.
That's a good news reminding me that i will have to test and learn how  
to use it as soon as possible ;)

but I'd still like to try out and see how to work with shell() for  
other things as you mentioned above for maintenance purposes . The  
question, where I can get some education on that .
About general PostgreSQL + Metacard/Revolution posts :
<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>
About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution in CGI mode :
<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sadhu>
About handling a PostgreSQL back-end from Revolution set up as a  
web/eai applications server :
<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql+sahores>

The main site for PosrgreSQL stuffs, news, events :  
<http://www.postgresql.org/>
Cool PostgreSQL news : <http://pgreplicator.sourceforge.net/>
About PostgreSQL specifics to the MacOSX platform :   
<http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/postgresql/>

Best, Pierre
Thanks, Hershel
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
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Re: Rev Web Solutions?

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 2 août 04, à 06:24, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
On Sunday, August 1, 2004, at 07:45 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Le 1 août 04, à 23:32, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
On Saturday, July 31, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Hi,
About how to set up a Revolution applications server binded to  
PostgreSQL under Mac OS X or Linux, see
B1 on Mac os X , doesn't work with postgres.
Take care about the fact that the way i expose don't use the RevDB  
lib but direct shell() calls to the psql PostgreSQL's server-side  
connector.
Now technical what is the difference between the two methods ?
1.- worked fine years before the introduction of the RevDB lib
2.- those MC/Rev applications servers are only doing what they are  
doing the best : working on the data presentation layer, in beetwin the  
Web server (one side) and (second side) the shell() + psql connector to  
the ACID compliant PostgreSQL RDBMS.
3.- works fine and very fast in all situations, including  
administration tasks alike new databases and tables creations or  
automatic "pg_dump" (backups) operations without stopping the  
production statu of the PostgreSQL server.
4.- least but not least : i didn't, at this time, got enought time to  
test RevDB and see if it's mature in about handling critical production  
tasks (over 400 connections/secs, 75% write mode transactions).

 Works fine in production, under Metacard 2.32 / 2.5 and Revolution  
2.0 / 2.12 under both Linux x86 and Mac OS X 10.1 and UP. Not tested,  
for yet under Rev 2.2 and UP.

<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>

Le 31 juil. 04, à 20:42, Björnke von Gierke a écrit :
http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/
http://rodney.buzzword.com/discuss/msgReader$155
http://www.navaching.com/pagem.html
http://mitchellonline.pasco.k12.fl.us/training/metacardcgi.htm
On Jul 31 2004, at 20:35, Rick Harrison wrote:
Hi there,
I've been looking at all the information I can find thus far
about how to use Rev as a CGI web solution.  I'm finding
bits and pieces of stuff but nothing which really puts it
all together in a simple step by step process.
(I'm assuming that one doesn't exist at this point or I would
have found it.)
The idea is of course to use MySQL and Rev. as the CGI
along with Apache or some other webserver capable of
doing SSL transactions.  In other words, a rather serious
project.
I've looked at Andre Garzia's httpd stack server.  I found
the concept very interesting.  I'm not able to follow his
documentation real well without illustrations etc. I was
very impressed!  I doubt that it will do SSL however.
I looked at the REV CGI introduction, it is a little unclear
on the permissions thing for setting it up on OS X. It obviously
uses the command line terminal unix stuff to create the right
hooks etc.  This appears to work through Apache so that will
solve the SSL problem.  I obviously need some better more
in depth resource to explore this further.
I'm just now getting into the XML tutorial stack which at first
glance looks very good.
Has anyone out there done an extensive website using Rev
and MySQL with Apache?
Any other resources/examples you can recommend?
Thanks in advance,
Rick Harrison
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WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivité"
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Re: voice mail recording

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello All,
In about MP3 voice recording, the "Audio Recorder" v 1.4 by Ben 
Shanfelder need probably to be best knowed ;)

Le 2 août 04, à 06:55, Dan Shafer a écrit :
On Aug 1, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Sannyasin Sivakatirswami wrote:
Does anyone know what format is used or would be best for voice mail?
Can't tell you what is standard, but the email voice mail I get from 
my Vonage account comes in mp3 format.


~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
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Re: Rev Web Solutions?

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 1 août 04, à 23:32, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
On Saturday, July 31, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
Hi,
About how to set up a Revolution applications server binded to  
PostgreSQL under Mac OS X or Linux, see
B1 on Mac os X , doesn't work with postgres.
Take care about the fact that the way i expose don't use the RevDB lib  
but direct shell() calls to the psql PostgreSQL's server-side  
connector. Works fine in production, under Metacard 2.32 / 2.5 and  
Revolution 2.0 / 2.12 under both Linux x86 and Mac OS X 10.1 and UP.  
Not tested, for yet under Rev 2.2 and UP.

<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>

Le 31 juil. 04, à 20:42, Björnke von Gierke a écrit :
http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/
http://rodney.buzzword.com/discuss/msgReader$155
http://www.navaching.com/pagem.html
http://mitchellonline.pasco.k12.fl.us/training/metacardcgi.htm
On Jul 31 2004, at 20:35, Rick Harrison wrote:
Hi there,
I've been looking at all the information I can find thus far
about how to use Rev as a CGI web solution.  I'm finding
bits and pieces of stuff but nothing which really puts it
all together in a simple step by step process.
(I'm assuming that one doesn't exist at this point or I would
have found it.)
The idea is of course to use MySQL and Rev. as the CGI
along with Apache or some other webserver capable of
doing SSL transactions.  In other words, a rather serious
project.
I've looked at Andre Garzia's httpd stack server.  I found
the concept very interesting.  I'm not able to follow his
documentation real well without illustrations etc. I was
very impressed!  I doubt that it will do SSL however.
I looked at the REV CGI introduction, it is a little unclear
on the permissions thing for setting it up on OS X. It obviously
uses the command line terminal unix stuff to create the right
hooks etc.  This appears to work through Apache so that will
solve the SSL problem.  I obviously need some better more
in depth resource to explore this further.
I'm just now getting into the XML tutorial stack which at first
glance looks very good.
Has anyone out there done an extensive website using Rev
and MySQL with Apache?
Any other resources/examples you can recommend?
Thanks in advance,
Rick Harrison
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:  +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:  +33 1 64 45 05 33
WEB/EAI services & ACID DB over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivité"
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:  +33 1 64 45 05 33
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Re: Rev Web Solutions?

[Pierre Sahores]

Hi,
About how to set up a Revolution applications server binded to  
PostgreSQL under Mac OS X or Linux, see

<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql>

Le 31 juil. 04, à 20:42, Björnke von Gierke a écrit :
http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/
http://rodney.buzzword.com/discuss/msgReader$155
http://www.navaching.com/pagem.html
http://mitchellonline.pasco.k12.fl.us/training/metacardcgi.htm
On Jul 31 2004, at 20:35, Rick Harrison wrote:
Hi there,
I've been looking at all the information I can find thus far
about how to use Rev as a CGI web solution.  I'm finding
bits and pieces of stuff but nothing which really puts it
all together in a simple step by step process.
(I'm assuming that one doesn't exist at this point or I would
have found it.)
The idea is of course to use MySQL and Rev. as the CGI
along with Apache or some other webserver capable of
doing SSL transactions.  In other words, a rather serious
project.
I've looked at Andre Garzia's httpd stack server.  I found
the concept very interesting.  I'm not able to follow his
documentation real well without illustrations etc. I was
very impressed!  I doubt that it will do SSL however.
I looked at the REV CGI introduction, it is a little unclear
on the permissions thing for setting it up on OS X. It obviously
uses the command line terminal unix stuff to create the right
hooks etc.  This appears to work through Apache so that will
solve the SSL problem.  I obviously need some better more
in depth resource to explore this further.
I'm just now getting into the XML tutorial stack which at first
glance looks very good.
Has anyone out there done an extensive website using Rev
and MySQL with Apache?
Any other resources/examples you can recommend?
Thanks in advance,
Rick Harrison
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Pro:  +33 1 64 45 05 33
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Re: shilling for my feature request [1926]

[Pierre Sahores]

Thanks Mark,
Best,
Pierre
Le 31 juil. 04, à 05:48, Mark Brownell a écrit :
On Friday, July 30, 2004, at 05:59 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
For those of us who aren't familiar with the term "pull-parser", I'll 
ask some indulgence. Like most of us, I parse a lot of string 
content, and I'm familiar with a number of models for parsing XML 
content, for instance. But, what specifically is a pull-parser and 
how does #1926 make it possible / better?
--
Troy
OK school time.
from here:
http://otn.oracle.com/tech/xml/xdk/staxpreview.html
"Oracle StAX Pull Parser Preview
A new XML document parsing technology is being developed as part of 
the Java Community Process to supplement DOM and SAX. Called Streaming 
API for XML or StAX, this technology is being developed under JSR-173 
and is in its final draft stage. StAX parsing has significant 
advantages over DOM and SAX which are discussed in the Sep/Oct. issue 
of Oracle Magazine in the article - Parsing XML Efficiently.

StAX gives parsing control to you through either a simple 
iterator-based API and an underlying stream of events or a cursor 
style object API. Methods such as next() and hasNext() allow you to 
pull the event by asking for next one rather than handling it in a 
callback. This gives you precise control over XML document processing. 
As distinct from other event-based approaches StAX allows you to stop 
processing the document, skip ahead to sections of the document, or 
get subsections of the document."

More on pull-parsers at
here: http://www.xmlpull.org/
So...
These new split functions would allow us to set our own rules for 
next(), nextTag(), and nextText() while streaming fragments out of of 
full XML documents. This is because we would have high speed functions 
to pull data out of large documents and the need for not relying on 
the streaming method would leave those current pull-parser 
implementations further behind.

MTML breaks the rules in a way that XML was never meant to. MTML 
element type tag sets can begin within an other tag set and end 
outside these other tag sets. This would break most XML parsers and 
even some of the new streaming designs that are designed as 
implementations of pull-parsing. All this adds up to the designer of 
the data structure being able to run modified and simple data 
transfers. "This is a good thing" Martha Stewart. It's better to dust 
off your competitors if you can offer the option. Development time 
within RunRev including this kind of data structuring can be a winning 
combination for you when it comes to offering services.

HTH,
Mark
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Re: shilling for my feature request [1926]

[Pierre Sahores]

Thanks a lot Troy ! Saved ;)
Best,
Pierre.
Le 31 juil. 04, à 06:46, Chipp Walters a écrit :
Thanks Troy! Very informative!
Troy Rollins wrote:

FWIW - if anyone is interested, this document, linked from one of the 
links Mark provided, probably offers the clearest definitions of the 
various parsing types I've seen so far -
<http://otn.oracle.com/oramag/oracle/03-sep/o53devxml.html>
Scroll to the very bottom for a nice pros and cons chart.

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Re: 2.5/Handler running low on memory

[Pierre Sahores]

Me too ! Previously reported to Tuviah.
Le 30 juil. 04, à 21:47, Ken Ray a écrit :
I've gotten that in other places in 2.5 as well, like simply changing
tools...
Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Judy Perry
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 2:17 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: 2.5/Handler running low on memory
Hi,
Does anyone else get this?  Are we supposed to be getting
this error message?
executing internal 12:16:00 PM
TypeHandler: Running low on memory, script aborted
Object  revdebugger
Lineif item 1 of pWhatError3 is not empty and item 1 of
pWhatError3 is
not a number then -- user thrown error
Hintbutton id 1113 of card id 1002 of stack
"/Applications/Revolution
2.5b1/components/global environment/revlibrary.rev"
I get it when I command-period interrupt a handler to make
some changes. I understand that I *should* get an error of
some sort but don't understand the rest of it.
Judy
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Re: Acrobat is much more than a browser plug in

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 25 juil. 04, à 12:41, Klaus Major a écrit :
Hi Troy,
...
If you have any interest in this, please send a quick message to the 
list saying so.
A brief gauge of the interest level could  help inspire RunRev and 
the external developers, to get this technology into our hands 
quickly.
Sounds like a "musthave" :-)
I want one, too!
Kevin, Tuviah and All,
Add my voice too, please !

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Regards
Klaus Major
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Re: Public ip address

[Pierre Sahores]

Dar's solution of opening a UDP socket to a public address should 
always get the IP address of an interface which can reach the 
internet.
Thanks for the tip, Dar and all my apologies to All. It seems i didn't 
read the begining of this thread before speaking in the box... The 
"Rendez-Vous/ZeroConf" features are probably usables there, too. At 
least under MacOS X and Linux (i don't know about Windows), it's a way 
to use them to catch the diffrent IP address the computer is binded to.

Le 25 juil. 04, à 03:25, kee nethery a écrit :
When I need to access servers through a firewall from some remote 
place, the IP address of my machine is typically not the IP address 
the firewall is going to see. The only way to determine my IP address 
is to hit a remote server that tells me what my IP actually is, then I 
enter that into the firewall. It is rarely the IP address that my 
machine is using.

How you determine your IP address depends entirely upon what you are 
planning to do with that information.

Kee Nethery
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Re: Public ip address

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello,
Seems OK there, at least from within the messagebox (Rev 2.1.2 / 2.2.1 
/ Panther 10.3.4)

The test "answer hostNameToAddress("www.google.com")" returns the two 
Google's dns.

Le 25 juil. 04, à 01:40, Dar Scott a écrit :
On Jul 24, 2004, at 5:41 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
I can only test it on Windows, but
   put hostNameToAddress("")
seems to do the right thing for me.
Cool!
I get empty on OS X.
Dar
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Re: Question about timeout on Rev DB funcs...

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 23 juil. 04, à 19:30, Andre Garzia a écrit :
On Jul 23, 2004, at 2:23 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
If they are running a firewall of some sort, is the port open?
Frank,
the port is open. They are firewalled but I manage to connect to an 
HTTPd daemon running at 3014 why shouldn't I be able to connect to 
MySQL daemon at the same port?
If i don't understand wrong what you are thinking about, take care, 
Andre, about the fact that each port is binded to the first app witch 
opened a socket to it (aka, the port will be unavailable for the second 
app as long as any opened sockets to the first one have not been 
closed.

Do firewalls are good enought to distinguish between http traffic and 
mysql traffic?
The main job of the firewall is to block the incoming requests to 
unauthorised ports.

 I thought in the end it was all packet data and no one could make any 
sense out of it... :D

Before trying MySQL Daemon, I tried launching a webserver set to the 
default MySQL port just to see if they could connect, and yes, they 
could. Then I just keept working and now they can't connect to the 
Daemon... I think that or the firewall policies changed in the 
meantime or that the connection is timing out for their connection 
hellish slow. Can the MySQL connection with Rev fail due to timeout?
Probably not but, i'm not a MySQL user...
Best, Pierre
Cheers
andre
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Re: Thank you all !

[Pierre Sahores]

Congratulations, Maxence !
Best,
Le 22 juil. 04, à 16:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
I wanted to thank you all, members of the Revolution mailing list, for
your help.
I thank in particular :
Dar Scott, Jan Schenkel, Andre Garzia, Troy Rollins, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Klaus Major, Mark Wieder,and Sarah Reichelt.

I finished my Revolution application on time, and it works perfectly !
See you soon... maybe
Maxence BERNARD
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Re: Web Delivery

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 22 juil. 04, à 18:29, Gordon Tillman a écrit :
Greetings All!
If I understand correctly, and please do let me know if this is not 
right...

It is entirely possible to implement a RR application using something 
along these lines:

First have a "Startup" piece that is a compiled standalone for each of 
the platforms you are supporting.  Or else, with the new beta stuff, 
have a Startup stack that is run via the "Revolution Player".
True !
Either way, you have a Startup piece that runs and does a "go stack 
URL whatever", or a "go stack decompress(URL whatever)" as appropriate 
to load your actual application and run it.
True again !
I'm guessing that the stack that you load via the URL is cached.  Is 
that correct?  And if so, the next time the user runs the application, 
is that cached version automatically run?
It's up to you... For some apps you can need to choose always to reload 
the stack from the remote server. Else, the way you are thinking about 
is full suitable. I use both thoses two solutions to run differents 
applications.
When the Startup code issues the "go stack URL..." stuff, will it 
still check online to see if the cached stack is different or has 
expired?  If the user does not have an Internet connection on 
subsequent runs of the application, but does have a cached version 
present on their computer, will the cached version still be loaded?
True again !
Many thanks!
--gordon
Best,

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Re: server side scripting

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello Jan, Hershel and All,
...or just enter  
<http://www.google.com/search? 
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.com&num=20&q=postgresql> in your prefered  
Web browser...

Best Regards,
Le 20 juil. 04, à 21:52, Jan Schenkel a écrit :
--- Hershel Fisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tuesday, July 20, 2004, at 10:37 AM, Jan Schenkel
wrote:
--- Hershel Fisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hi, Where can I find the tip for server side
scripting that was posted
on RR site a while ago ?
Also what is it made for , can I write a trigger
for
a PostgreSQL db ?
Thanks.
Hi Hershel,
You'll find the cgi-tutorial by Jacqueline Landman
Gay
at :
<http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/>
Depending on the platform you use, the revdb
drivers may need to be placed in a certain
directory, but you should be able to use the
revdb commands and functions to connect to a
PostgreSQL database.
Or you can use Pierre Sahores' method of issuing
shell()-calls to pgsql if that works better for
you.
Where can I get it ?
Thanks.
A quick search in the use-revolution mailing lsit
archives turned up the following post :
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-October/ 
024057.html>

For more information, you too can use the mailing list
archive search tool at :
<http://mindlube.com/cgi-bin/search-use-rev.cgi>
I used the following terms to find the above info :
pierre sahores shell postgres
Hope this helped,
Jan Schenkel.
=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same  
time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


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Re: problems with sockets on panther

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 20 juil. 04, à 04:35, Andre Garzia a écrit :

I think you can't listen and open connections at the same time... do 
like this, change port, then launch server then connect from your 
favorite browser...
The same idea, there and be carefull not to have an other deamon 
listening on the port you are trying to use (aka Apache)

Test something like this, below :
on newconnect s
  read from socket s for 1 line with message "serverread"
end newconnect

on serverread x,y
  global PostIn,Retour,Lepath,MajDesIndexs1
  put urldecode(y) into PostIn
  put cr into char (length(PostIn))-1 to (length(PostIn)) of PostIn
  put "" into Retour
  set itemdelimiter to "&"
  iStreamSwitch -- the application's logic goes there
  write Retour to socket x
  close socket x # x = adresse IP & "|" & n° d'ordre du socket 
encapsulant l'échange de données
  if the num of lines in (opensockets()) > 1
then close socket line 2 of (opensockets())
else exit repeat
  end repeat
end serverread

on socketTimout
end socketTimout

on PreOpenStack
  if the short name of this stack is not "istreamserver" then pass 
PreOpenStack
  global Lepath,dbUsers
  put " Please, wait. iStream app's server loading..." into fld 
"status"
  set twelveHourTime to false
  put "iStream app's server up since" && the short date & "," && the 
short time into binfo
  get the filename of this stack
  set the itemDelimiter to "/"
  delete last item of it
  set the defaultFolder to it
  put it & "/" into Lepath
  open file Lepath & "iStreamUsers.txt" for read -- 1
  read from file Lepath & "iStreamUsers.txt" until eof
  put it into dbUsers
  put " " & the result after Pboot
  close file Lepath & "iStreamUsers.txt"
  set the socketTimeoutInterval to "10"
  if the num of lines in the windows is "1"
  then
accept connections on port "948" with message "newconnect"
put "with proxying keycode 3 actived..." into thep
  else
accept connections on port "9482" with message "newconnect"
put "with proxying keycode 7 actived..." into thep
  end if
  openstack
  if the result is not "" then
open file Lepath & "iStreamLog.txt" for append -- 2
write cr & the result & cr to file Lepath & "iStreamLog.txt"
put " " & the result after Pboot
  else
open file Lepath & "iStreamLog.txt" for append
write return & return & "Open sockets :" && the opensockets & 
return & return to file Lepath & "iStreamLog.txt"
  end if
  close file "iStreamLog.txt"
  replace " eof" with "" in Pboot
  if the num of words in Pboot > 0 or DbUsers is ""
  then put "iStream app's server not up :" & Pboot into fld "status"
  else put binfo && thep into fld "status"
  put the files into ERBList
  filter ERBList with "*ERB.rev"
  repeat for each line l in ERBList
if l is not in the stacksinuse then start using l
  end repeat
  insert the script of stack the short name of this stack into back
end PreOpenStack


on openstack
  if the short name of this stack is "iStreamServer" then
if the num of lines in the windows > 1 then hide window "Home"
set the tool to "browse"
  end if
end openstack

on opencard
  if the environment is not "development" then start using "libURL"
end opencard

on ERBSrvUpdate
  global Lepath,Retour
  set the defaultfolder to char 1 to -2 of Lepath
  put the files into ERBList
  filter ERBList with "*ERB.rev"
  repeat for each line l in ERBList
if l is not in the stacksinuse then start using l
  end repeat
  repeat for each line l in the stacksinuse
if l is not in ERBList then stop using l
  end repeat
  put "ERB's active components :" & return & return & the stacksinuse 
& return & return & \
  "ERB's successfully updated." into Retour
end ERBSrvUpdate

try that...
cheers
andre
On Jul 19, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote:
I can't get my socket code to work maybe someone of you can give 
me a hint why I do not see anything in the opensockets?

"server" button:
on mouseUp
  accept connections on port 80 with message "webConnect"
  put "Accepting" & return before field "log"
end mouseUp
on webConnect RemoteIP
put "socket:" && the opensockets & return before field "log"
  put RemoteIP & return before field "log"
  read from socket remoteIP until ":"
  put it & return before field "log"
end WebConnect

"client" button :
on mouseUp
  open socket to "192.168.1.2:80"
  put theSocket & return & mess
  write mess to Socket theSocket
end mouseUp
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Re: server side scripting

[Pierre Sahores]

Just have a search in the metacard and revolution archives lists. You 
will find lots and lots of usefull material there ;)

Regards,
Pierre
Le 18 juil. 04, à 21:55, Hershel Fisch a écrit :
Hi, Where can I find the tip for server side scripting that was posted 
on RR site a while ago ?
Also what is it made for , can I write a trigger for a PostgreSQL db ?
Thanks.

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Re: save as for text file?

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 17 juil. 04, à 21:48, Rich Lague a écrit :

Try "open file it"
on mouseUp
  ask file "Save list as..." with "Temp"
 # open it
 open file it
  write card field "daTable" to file it
  close file it
end mouseUp
I do not get the error message, but no file is created.
So, is there a way to do what I'm trying?
Thanks!
Rich Lague
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Re: displaying jpg in Player problem

[Pierre Sahores]

Hi sims,
Works fine there in using the Klaus's method (Rev 2.1.2/2.2, Panther 
10.3.x). The same method is usefull too in about using movies players.

Best,
Le 14 juil. 04, à 13:49, Klaus Major a écrit :
Hi sims,
I'm doing the following on Mac 10.2.8 Rev 2.2
1. display jpg in a Player,  save the filename to a custom property
2. save copy of jpg into different folder -  revCopyFile 
tCopyNameofFile,tPlaceImage
3. set Player to empty
4. launch original  jpg in an image editor  - launch tNameofFile with 
tEditor
5. edit jpg in editor and save
6. reset filename of Player from custom property

The changes to the edited jpg are not displayed when I reset the 
filename of Player
Changing the alwaysBuffer of the Player does not help

If I quit Rev and reload the jpg then the edited version displays
How can I get the edited version of the jpg to display without
needing to quit Rev?
Quick guess:
Seet the filename of the player to empty, wait some millisecs and then 
set it again..
Does that help?

tia
sims
European Rev Conference   http://TechieTours.com/Rev
Regards
Klaus Major
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Re: fwPack & fwUnpack php script...

[Pierre Sahores]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
well here are the two functions.. next ;-)
-Sean
A thing of beauty, Sean.  Thank you.
--
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 Fourth World Media Corporation
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<%
function fwPack($pData, $pPassword="") {
  if ($pPassword === ""):
$pData = "00" . gzencode($pData);
  else:
$tKeyString = pack("H*", md5($pPassword));
$tKeyStringLen = strlen($tKeyString);
$pData = gzencode($pData);
$tDataLen = strlen($pData);
$tCryptoText = "";
$i = 0;
for ($k=0; $k < $tDataLen; $k++):
  if ($i >= $tKeyStringLen):
$i = 0;
  endif;
  $tCryptoText .= chr( ord($pData{$k}) ^ ord($tKeyString{$i}) );
  $i++;
endfor;
$pData = "01" . $tCryptoText;
  endif;
  return base64_encode($pData);
}
// end fwPack
function fwUnpack($pData, $pPassword="") {
  $pData = base64_decode($pData);
  $tEncryptionMethod = $pData{0} . $pData{1};   // get the encryption 
method
  $pData = substr($pData,2);// remove the encryption method from 
the data
  switch($tEncryptionMethod):
  case "00":   // no encryption
break;
  case "01":   // md5 encryption
$tKeyString = pack("H*", md5($pPassword));
$tKeyStringLen = strlen($tKeyString);
$tDataLen = strlen($pData);
$tClearText = "";
$i = 0;
for ($k=0; $k < $tDataLen; $k++):
  if ($i >= $tKeyStringLen):
$i = 0;
  endif;
  $tClearText .= chr( ord($pData{$k}) ^ ord($tKeyString{$i}) );
  $i++;
endfor;
$pData = $tClearText;
  endswitch;
  return gzinflate(substr($pData,10)); }
// end fwUnpack
echo fwUnpack(fwPack("abraxas", "fred"), "fred");
%>
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$pData = gzencode($pData);
$tDataLen = strlen($pData);
$i = 0;
$tCryptoText = "";
for ($k=0; $k < $tDataLen; $k++)
{
if ($i >= $tKeyStringLen)
$i = 0;
$tCryptoText .= chr( ord($pData{$k}) ^ 
ord($tKeyString{$i}) );
$i++;
}
$pData = "01" . $tCryptoText;
}
$theResult = base64_encode($pData);
return $theResult;
}
	function fwUnpack($pData, $pPassword="")
	{
		$pData = base64_decode($pData);
		$tEncryptionMethod = $pData{0} . $pData{1};   // get the encryption 
method
		$pData = substr($pData,2);// remove the encryption method from 
the data
	
		switch($tEncryptionMethod)
		{
			case "00":   // no encryption
break;

			case "01":   // md5 encryption
$tKeyString = pack("H*", md5($pPassword));
$tKeyStringLen = strlen($tKeyString);
		
$tDataLen = strlen($pData);
		
$tClearText = "";
$i = 0;
for ($k=0; $k < $tDataLen; $k++)
{
	if ($i >= $tKeyStringLen)
		$i = 0;
	$tClearText .= chr( ord($pData{$k}) ^ ord($tKeyString{$i}) );
	$i++;
}

$pData = $tClearText;
break;

			default:
exit ("ERROR: fwUnpack invalid encryption method = " . 
$tEncryptionMethod);
		}
	
		$theResult = gzinflate(substr($pData,10));
		
		if ($theResult === FALSE)
			exit ("ERROR: fwUnpack -- wrong password");
		else
			return $theResult;
	}
?>

Le 2 mars 04, à 16:40, Frank Leahy a écrit :
Many, many thanks to shaosean and Brian Yennie for providing php 
versions of fwPack and fwUnpack.  I cleaned them up a bit, added some 
error handling, and tested the final code.

I've put the final code up on my server at 
http://photoalbum.backtalk.com/code_snippets/fwPack_fwUnpack.php.txt

Richard, maybe you'd like to add this code to your fwPack/fwUnpack 
stack?

Thanks,
-- Frank
Weblog: http://cornwall.backtalk.com
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Le 2 juil. 04, à 20:35, Chipp Walters a écrit :
Howdy,
Anyone out there have a copy of the php fwPack/unPack php scripts 
posted a while back? It turns out the server where it's hosted is 
down...

best,
Chipp
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Re: altBrowser for Mac

[Pierre Sahores]

Fantastic !!! I need it, for both the MacOSX, the Win32 and the Linux 
platforms. See the form filled at Altruit :)

Best Regards,
Le 1 juil. 04, à 03:55, Chipp Walters a écrit :
Well,
Chris decided to jump in the MacOSX development environment (pls don't 
tell anyone or else he loses his  card carrying Linux privledges) and 
has crafted a first version of altBrowser for MacOSX. It's not yet 
completed, but it is working (or so he tells me...I'm at WWDC right 
now).

So a quick question for those interested. We're pretty sure we're not 
going to support the Mac before OSX. Is that a deal killer for those 
of you interested?

Also, Chris wants to create a Linux altBrowser as well.
Lastly, we've just completed Mac and PC zip externals for 
compressing/decompressing to zip files / folders. We'll be hoping soon 
to have something up for those interested.

best,
Chipp
btw, funny thing. Richard Gaskin and I are here at WWDC representing 
RR. Richard saw the new dashboard presentation and decided that 
instead of waiting until 2005, he'd whip up a version inside RR here 
at the show. He just about completed it before time ran out..today.

I really feel for Konfabulator-- Apple's done their best to screw 
them, and funny thing is how a lot of developers here think "Hey, it's 
good to have competition!" Richard also previewed his Devolutions 
package which he threatens to release almost as often as we do the Mac 
version of altBrowser. It's really cool. I'm trying to persuade him to 
release the beta at the Rev Masters Summit mid-July. Perhaps a few 
emails to [EMAIL PROTECTED] would help get the message 
across:-)

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Re: Another Revolution Success Story

[Pierre Sahores]

Oh là là, comme on dit chez nous... What's an usefull stuff, Xavier. 
Can spend time in test and debug, if that can help ;)

Le 29 juin 04, à 06:11, MisterX a écrit :
I wrote one to import an excel made csv.
There was no published format that I could find though...
It is a "bit" unfinished (about 5% missing) in the
translation matrix...
I'll polish it today and try to fix the errors, try to
find the source of the data to put in the proper credits.
The database contains a few thousands NT events errors and
codes reference.
cheers
Xavier

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alex
Tweedly
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 03:51
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Another Revolution Success Story
At 18:02 28/06/2004 -0400, Troy Rollins wrote:

On Jun 28, 2004, at 5:40 PM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:
A physician in our area had a need for an application which
could easily
import patient data from a text file (multiple rows of 
comma-delineated
data).  It was a simple task, using Revolution, to open the
file and read
the data to a field.  Subsequently a "model" card was cloned and the
appropriate data sent to various fields on each card. Over a 
thousand
records were created this way in a few minutes.The only stumbling 
block
involved my forgetting that a standalone cannot modify itself.
No matter
though; I merely created an invisible "starter app" that immediately
opened a data stack in the data folder.
The application works "as advertised".
The doctor was impressed that it was possible to do this in a few 
hours!
String handling apps DO seem to be Rev's forte.
yes, string handling is pretty good - but I'm surprised that Rev has 
no
built-in support for CSV files. They are a pretty common interchange
format, but handling the variations commonly found makes it
non-trivial to
do this properly - quoted fields, delimiter in quoted fields, escaped 
or
doubled quotes within a field, etc.

Has anyone written and contributed a library to avoid others having to
"roll-your-own" ?
(*) - I should probably say "appears to have no built-in support" - 
there
may be something that I just can't find in the docs.

-- Alex.
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Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:  +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:+33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:  +33 1 64 45 05 33
Inspection académique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivité"
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