date:20120118

By the way, fusion of protons with transuranic elements is very unlikely.
But if somehow a proton(s) got inside a super heavy nucleus, fission of the
new transmuted element would almost certainly happen instantaneously.


Such a fission reaction would be 20 time more energetic per incident
(~200MeV) compared to the  formation of copper from nickel (~10 MeV).


On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:57 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

>
>  On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint <
> zeropo...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>  Sure, the US went off the gold standard decades ago (a mistake in my
>> opinion), but where does money get invested when currencies weaken…
>> precious metals.  You do realize that we’re not just talking transmutation
>> of two or three elements… the LENR tests which looked for transmuted
>> elements found many… some over ten different elements, and I’m not counting
>> isotopes as separate elements.  LENR would most likely have a very
>> disruptive impact on that market… which has advantages as well as
>> disadvans… a lot of those metals are used in technologies like integrated
>> circuits and special alloys for aircraft, and the price will come down,
>> which is good for the consumer.
>>
>
> Yeah -- I've taken a look at some of the NAA and SIMS spectra.  The
> isotopes are all over the map.  If the data are taken at face value, it
> looks like whatever you put on the nickel or palladium surface could
> potentially be modified significantly.  It's interesting on some level to
> think that you could generate isotopes using a controlled process of some
> kind, and being able to do this would no doubt be valuable for scientific
> and technological applications.
>
> But there are three considerations that give me pause, here.  The first
> two are related to evidence and the third to safety.  First, a lot of the
> spectra in the papers are small and hard to read and don't give you clear
> error bars, so it's difficult to get a sense of how much above error the
> shifts are at the end of the experiment.  Some papers give this level of
> detail, which is helpful to have.  But in any event the following slides
> give a good overview of some of the subtleties involved in this kind of
> measurement:  http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ApicellaMmassspectr.pdf.
>
> Second, I don't have a good sense of what the difference between a genuine
> shift in isotopes, on one hand, and contamination of some kind, on the
> other, would look like.  The question legitimately arises whether there are
> simply impurities in the hydrogen gas or heavy water that are glomming onto
> the cathode.  I imagine there are some people who could look at the spectra
> and immediately get a sense of the difference.
>
> A third concern relates to safety.  The possibility has already been
> brought up that if these experiments emit gamma rays (I've read several
> papers that indicate that they do under certain circumstances), then it's
> likely that any devices would be regulated.  It's fine to create
> regulations, but since such devices involve components that you can
> purchase over the Internet and assemble at home, there's only so much you
> can do to keep any emerging technology under control.  What if you could
> take something like uranium-238, which is relatively abundant, add
> sufficient neutrons to it and then let it alpha and beta decay to
> uranium-235?  This is the kind of thing that happens in the course of
> r-process nucleosynthesis, which seems like it might be similar to what is
> going on in LENR.  This chart suggests that if you can get something into
> the actinide series, you're well on your way:
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Radioactive_decay_chains_diagram.svg
>
> I can only imagine that there are complications here and there, including
> losing relatively unstable isotopes before they can accumulate.  But the
> larger point is that the discovery of LENR, if it is real, might have
> negative implications as well as positive ones.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


  
  
Jones
  Isn't it possible that the US customer's facility is in Italy? If
  the customer is military, as speculated to be, then it's possible
  that they are using one of their bases in Italy to monitor and
  deal with Rossi and the 1MW plant. The US have a base near Vicensa
  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_installations_in_Italy)
  which is only 150Km from Bologna so it's quite possible that Rossi
  was at the 'customer's facility' the day before the interview. Not
  saying it's so but just saying we don't know everything.

On 19/01/12 01:53, Jones Beene wrote:

  AG,

I agree. However, even if the maker of the Jan 12 vid incorporated a clip of
the BBB from before it was shipped, we still have to deal with AR's
statement that he was "replacing gaskets" on that same unit at this time.
The location is not known but if it is "somewhere" besides Bologna, then
that is the problem ... since the statement came hours before the interview
- when we know he was in Bologna. 

Was he at the customer's facility the afternoon before, and then caught a
quick flight back, to do the interview? That would explain it, but methinks
the strings of rationalization that make this episode "not seem" to be as
suspicious as it is - are getting longer by the hour.

Again, let me say that my problem is NOT with the technology, which is
valid, but with the man. 

Jones

-Original Message-
From: Aussie Guy E-Cat 

Jones,

All that can be said at the present point in time is the images are of the
same BBB. Until we can determine the date of the Jan 12 video 
interview's images of the BBB, any assumptions are just guess work.

Differential staining on the floor in front of the E-Cat plant is 
suggestive of the Jan 12 image actually being taken before the 28 Oct image.


AG


On 19/01/2012 11:41 AM, Jones Beene wrote:

  
Daniel,

You seem to be implying that you are content that Rossi could have lied
about there being a mystery customer, when there was none; instead of
that he lied about the customer sending it back?

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


  
  
Perhaps the original 1MW
  plant never shipped to the customer's location as the customer
  wanted it fixed before shipping, i.e. the leaking gaskets, the
  control system etc. As I recall Rossi never said the unit was
  delivered to the customer's premises although I could be wrong on
  this.

On 18/01/12 18:47, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Hello
  group,
  
  
  Have a look at this interesting Youtube video by ecat.com:
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc
  
  
  Apparently it's been filmed on January 12th. It shows that:
  
  - Rossi is currently in Bologna
  
  - Rossi's test site appears to be cold
  
  - The 1 MW E-Cat container shown during the last "public" demo is
  in Bologna too
  
  - There appears to be a new control box.
  
  
  Have I missed anything else?
  
  
  Cheers,
  
  S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

I think, this is the first time for me that Rossi was caught in a direct lie... 
Or is it just me, remembering Rossi saying that the container had been shipped? 
Of course this also sheds some light on all the insider sources ;) Or Rossi is 
lieing again...

Wolf
-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.



Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint  schrieb:

This is comical! Ya gotta laugh. So, did Rossi confirm what the Collective 
seems to be converging to??? Y Thnk!!! BTW, Thanks go to Patrick Ellul 
for taking the direct route, and just asking the horse! Good job Patrick! -Mark 
From: Robert Leguillon [mailto:robert.leguil...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 
January 18, 2012 10:03 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Interesting 
new video from ecat.com You guys must have missed the post by Patrick Ellul: 1. 
Italo R. January 18th, 2012 at 2:02 PM Dear Ing. Rossi, I have watched this 
interview with you in Bologna realized on the 12th of January 2012 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc In it appears a 1 MW container. May 
I ask you if that container is the same used in the last test with ing. 
Fioravanti and already sold to your customer? Thank you. Kind regards, Italo R. 
2. Andrea Rossi January 18th, 2012 at 6:44 PM Dear Italo R. Yes, it is the 
same: we are still working on it with National Instruments and with !
 the
Customer. It will take another month before it will be ready. Warm Regards, 
A.R. - the floor strings are a moot point...someone must have mopped

Re: [Vo]:LENR G & Silver & Currency

I don’t believe that neutrons are involved in the Rossi reaction. The best
indication now is that two PROTONS gently tunnel their way into a heavy
nucleus.



Next, a truism of bomb physics: isotopes with even mass numbers cannot be
used for a bomb. The mass number of U238 is 238. This is even. Therefore,
this isotope cannot be used to make a bomb.



The number of protons in the nucleus of an atom determines an element's
atomic number. In other words, each element has a unique number that
identifies how many protons are in one atom of that element. For example,
all hydrogen atoms, and only hydrogen atoms, contain one proton and have an
atomic number of 1. All carbon atoms, and only carbon atoms, contain six
protons and have an atomic number of 6. Oxygen atoms contain 8 protons and
have an atomic number of 8.



Adding two protons to U238 will give Plutonium 240. This stuff has an even
mass number and cannot be used to make a bomb.





Only odd mass number isotopes can provide feedstock for bombs: that is
U233, U235, Pu239, and Np237.






On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:57 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

>
>  On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint <
> zeropo...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>  Sure, the US went off the gold standard decades ago (a mistake in my
>> opinion), but where does money get invested when currencies weaken…
>> precious metals.  You do realize that we’re not just talking transmutation
>> of two or three elements… the LENR tests which looked for transmuted
>> elements found many… some over ten different elements, and I’m not counting
>> isotopes as separate elements.  LENR would most likely have a very
>> disruptive impact on that market… which has advantages as well as
>> disadvans… a lot of those metals are used in technologies like integrated
>> circuits and special alloys for aircraft, and the price will come down,
>> which is good for the consumer.
>>
>
> Yeah -- I've taken a look at some of the NAA and SIMS spectra.  The
> isotopes are all over the map.  If the data are taken at face value, it
> looks like whatever you put on the nickel or palladium surface could
> potentially be modified significantly.  It's interesting on some level to
> think that you could generate isotopes using a controlled process of some
> kind, and being able to do this would no doubt be valuable for scientific
> and technological applications.
>
> But there are three considerations that give me pause, here.  The first
> two are related to evidence and the third to safety.  First, a lot of the
> spectra in the papers are small and hard to read and don't give you clear
> error bars, so it's difficult to get a sense of how much above error the
> shifts are at the end of the experiment.  Some papers give this level of
> detail, which is helpful to have.  But in any event the following slides
> give a good overview of some of the subtleties involved in this kind of
> measurement:  http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ApicellaMmassspectr.pdf.
>
> Second, I don't have a good sense of what the difference between a genuine
> shift in isotopes, on one hand, and contamination of some kind, on the
> other, would look like.  The question legitimately arises whether there are
> simply impurities in the hydrogen gas or heavy water that are glomming onto
> the cathode.  I imagine there are some people who could look at the spectra
> and immediately get a sense of the difference.
>
> A third concern relates to safety.  The possibility has already been
> brought up that if these experiments emit gamma rays (I've read several
> papers that indicate that they do under certain circumstances), then it's
> likely that any devices would be regulated.  It's fine to create
> regulations, but since such devices involve components that you can
> purchase over the Internet and assemble at home, there's only so much you
> can do to keep any emerging technology under control.  What if you could
> take something like uranium-238, which is relatively abundant, add
> sufficient neutrons to it and then let it alpha and beta decay to
> uranium-235?  This is the kind of thing that happens in the course of
> r-process nucleosynthesis, which seems like it might be similar to what is
> going on in LENR.  This chart suggests that if you can get something into
> the actinide series, you're well on your way:
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Radioactive_decay_chains_diagram.svg
>
> I can only imagine that there are complications here and there, including
> losing relatively unstable isotopes before they can accumulate.  But the
> larger point is that the discovery of LENR, if it is real, might have
> negative implications as well as positive ones.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Misunderstanding Rossi

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> (I know, Mary, don't bother.)
>

Don't mind if I do.  After all, you brought it up!

> Now, all indications (to this author) is that AR is being funded by
> the military
>

Could you indulge me by revealing exactly what indications there are that
AR has anything whatever to do with the US or any other military and is
being funded by military groups, other than that the probable shill he put
up during the October 28 demo was given the arbitrary rank of "Colonel"?

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

This is comical!  Ya gotta laugh.

So, did Rossi confirm what the Collective seems to be converging to??? 

Y Thnk!!!

 

BTW, Thanks go to Patrick Ellul for taking the direct route, and just asking
the horse!

Good job Patrick!

-Mark

 

From: Robert Leguillon [mailto:robert.leguil...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:03 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

 

You guys must have missed the post by Patrick Ellul:
1. Italo R. January 18th, 2012 at 2:02 PM Dear Ing. Rossi, I have watched
this interview with you in Bologna realized on the 12th of January 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc In it appears a 1 MW container.
May I ask you if that container is the same used in the last test with ing.
Fioravanti and already sold to your customer? Thank you. Kind regards, Italo
R.

2. Andrea Rossi January 18th, 2012 at 6:44 PM Dear Italo R. Yes, it is the
same: we are still working on it with National Instruments and with the
Customer. It will take another month before it will be ready. Warm Regards,
A.R.

- the floor strings are a moot point...someone must have mopped

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread Robert Leguillon

You guys must have missed the post by Patrick Ellul:
 1. Italo R. January 18th, 2012 at 2:02 PM Dear Ing. Rossi, I have watched this 
interview with you in Bologna realized on the 12th of January 2012 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc In it appears a 1 MW container. May 
I ask you if that container is the same used in the last test with ing. 
Fioravanti and already sold to your customer? Thank you. Kind regards, Italo R.

2. Andrea Rossi January 18th, 2012 at 6:44 PM Dear Italo R. Yes, it is the 
same: we are still working on it with National Instruments and with the 
Customer. It will take another month before it will be ready. Warm Regards, A.R.

- the floor strings are a moot point...someone must have mopped

> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:05:47 +1030
> From: aussieguy.e...@gmail.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
> 
> Daniel,
> 
> Sure but other floor stains in the same area have not been removed / 
> cleaned up. Note the dirty area is not just in front of the BBB. It 
> continues along the edge of the painted / non painted edge in front of 
> the BBB.
> 
> There are no signs of scratched on the painted floor where various 
> pieces of heavy equipment sat as well.
> 
> I have looked at / studied every image of the 28 Oct E-Cat plant I could 
> find. I find the Jan 12 images look / feel earlier than 28 Oct but I 
> could be wrong.
> 
> AG
> 
> 
> On 19/01/2012 1:56 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
> > Can't those stains be cleaned?
>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


Daniel,

Sure but other floor stains in the same area have not been removed / 
cleaned up. Note the dirty area is not just in front of the BBB. It 
continues along the edge of the painted / non painted edge in front of 
the BBB.


There are no signs of scratched on the painted floor where various 
pieces of heavy equipment sat as well.


I have looked at / studied every image of the 28 Oct E-Cat plant I could 
find. I find the Jan 12 images look / feel earlier than 28 Oct but I 
could be wrong.


AG


On 19/01/2012 1:56 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:

Can't those stains be cleaned?

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread Chemical Engineer

Rossi videos remind me of the Blair Witch Project.  The camera just needs
to shake a little more.

On Wednesday, January 18, 2012, Patrick Ellul 
wrote:
> Italo R.
> January 18th, 2012 at 2:02 PM
>
> Dear Ing. Rossi, I have watched this interview with you in Bologna
realized on the 12th of January 2012
> Andrea Rossi talks about E-cat manufacturing and future electric
production.
> In it appears a 1 MW container.
> May I ask you if that container is the same used in the last test with
ing. Fioravanti and already sold to your customer?
> Thank you.
> Kind regards,
> Italo R.
>
> Andrea Rossi
> January 18th, 2012 at 6:44 PM
>
> Dear Italo R.
> Yes, it is the same: we are still working on it with National Instruments
and with the Customer. It will take another month before it will be ready.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
>>  wrote:
>> > It is very obvious.
>>
>> Indeed it is.  The telltale is the tilt in the pipe feeding the
>> pressure meter on the outside.
>>
>> The only question, as Beene points out, is when the vid was filmed.
>> IMO, the B^3 is unmoved.  (Besides, the top Ottomans outside the box
>> would have been blown off when pulled by a truck.)
>>
>> Probably archived stock anyway.
>>
>> T
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Patrick
>
> www.tRacePerfect.com
> The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
> The quickest puzzle ever!
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

Can't those stains be cleaned?

2012/1/19 Aussie Guy E-Cat 

> Daniel,
>
> Try this image of the non and stained floors.
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/**lh/photo/**shO4Ub6pXlC5p1kWhUIZ89MTjNZETY**
> myPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
>
>
> AG
>
> On 19/01/2012 1:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
>> I cannot see colors well, I have some color blindness, deuteranomaly.
>> Can you enhance the image?
>>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


Daniel,

Try this image of the non and stained floors.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/shO4Ub6pXlC5p1kWhUIZ89MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

AG

On 19/01/2012 1:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:

I cannot see colors well, I have some color blindness, deuteranomaly.
Can you enhance the image?

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread Patrick Ellul

   1. Italo R.
   January 18th, 2012 at 2:02
PM

   Dear Ing. Rossi, I have watched this interview with you in Bologna
   realized on the 12th of January 2012
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc
   In it appears a 1 MW container.
   May I ask you if that container is the same used in the last test with
   ing. Fioravanti and already sold to your customer?
   Thank you.
   Kind regards,
   Italo R.
   2. Andrea Rossi
   January 18th, 2012 at 6:44
PM

   Dear Italo R.
   Yes, it is the same: we are still working on it with National
   Instruments and with the Customer. It will take another month before it
   will be ready.
   Warm Regards,
   A.R.

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
>  wrote:
> > It is very obvious.
>
> Indeed it is.  The telltale is the tilt in the pipe feeding the
> pressure meter on the outside.
>
> The only question, as Beene points out, is when the vid was filmed.
> IMO, the B^3 is unmoved.  (Besides, the top Ottomans outside the box
> would have been blown off when pulled by a truck.)
>
> Probably archived stock anyway.
>
> T
>
>

-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
 wrote:
> It is very obvious.

Indeed it is.  The telltale is the tilt in the pipe feeding the
pressure meter on the outside.

The only question, as Beene points out, is when the vid was filmed.
IMO, the B^3 is unmoved.  (Besides, the top Ottomans outside the box
would have been blown off when pulled by a truck.)

Probably archived stock anyway.

T

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

If you know anything about engineers... good engineers... they are real anal
about details, and the fact that all the labels on things all being in the
same orientation is not strong evidence of the same container.

This certainly is an interesting set of pictures, and raises questions in my
mind, but still inconclusive... the only certainty in the last year's events
is uncertainty.

-mark

-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:49 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat 
wrote:

> I suggest the 12 Jan images of the BBB are pre the 28 Oct test and we 
> really can't date when the interview was done.

There are colored tags on the combination manifold at the bottom of the B^3.
It looks to me that the tags are in the same position in both videos.

T

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


Daniel,

See what I can do. Will play with Gamma and Contrast. Did you look at MY 
blinker? It is very obvious.


https://picasaweb.google.com/100758632386227249211/January192012?authuser=0&feat=directlink

You need to click on the LEFT image in the album to see the animated GIF 
image changing every 0.5 second.



AG


On 19/01/2012 1:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:

I cannot see colors well, I have some color blindness, deuteranomaly.
Can you enhance the image?

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson

Jed sez:

>> Jones Beene wrote:

>> Again, let me say that my problem is NOT with the technology,
>> which is valid, but with the man.

> Again let me ask: IF the technology is valid then WHY do you give
> a rat's ass about the man?! What difference does he make? I cannot
> understand this obsession that you share with Mary Yugo about
> Rossi's personality and his personal business. Shrug your
> shoulders and stop thinking about him.
>
> He is a strange fellow. We all know that. He will be a rich source
> of biographies in the future. There have been many strange scientists
> and inventors, and also many strange programmers, farmers, grocery
> clerks, doctors and ship captains -- such as Capt. Francesco
> Schettino of the Costa Concordia. We got it. Okay, already.
> Change the subject.

I second that.

Unfortunately, this is what tends to happen when we've had a couple of slow
news days. We begin fighting over yesterday's informational scraps and
tidbits. 

Some of us seem to have acquired a genuine talent for going back and
resurrecting something "odd" that Rossi sed. Of course, that is not
difficult to do since there has been such a smorgasbord of Rossi sayings to
choose from.

I'm sure Rossi will say something even more outrageous, or contradictory
soon. What will we end up doing about that? Why, put it through the meat
grinder, of course... just like everything else. 

I want my Rossi burger medium-rare please. ;-)

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread andre_vor...@blums.nl

Admitted, like many of you, I had loved to discover differences in the 
BBB setup: scratches, transportation numbers, etc. But they don't seem 
to be there.


I've been thinking this:

E-cat.com and the swedish guys behind it have a business to run. Even if 
run by physicists, they are mainly involved for the sales opportunity. 
They must be pretty much outside the loop of the 10kW E-Cat development, 
and even if they were in the loop, it's not ready for selling.


So to start making money now, they have to turn to the 1 MW unit, which 
is advertised as 'available now, lead time 4 months'.


As part of their marketing, they must have come up with this plan for an 
interview. Upon arrival in Bologna with their cameras, they discover the 
hall to be pretty empty, (at least I find that plausible from most of 
the footage). For audience late to the story, that doesn't do them much 
good for credibility of the existence of the 1 MW container.


The point I am trying to make is: wouldn't it be plain logical, then, to 
use some older footage they must have made in late October or early 
November, when their deal was struck, and mix this in with the interview?


In other words: For us vortexers, seeing an empty spot would have been 
great confirmation, but from a marketing perspective: pretty dull info. 
Want to show large blue boxes!


Andre Blum



On 01/18/2012 10:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

Jones Beene mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:

Again, let me say that my problem is NOT with the technology, which is
valid, but with the man.


Again let me ask: IF the technology is valid then WHY do you give a 
rat's ass about the man?! What difference does he make? I cannot 
understand this obsession that you share with Mary Yugo about Rossi's 
personality and his personal business. Shrug your shoulders and stop 
thinking about him.


He is a strange fellow. We all know that. He will be a rich source of 
biographies in the future. There have been many strange scientists and 
inventors, and also many strange programmers, farmers, grocery 
clerks, doctors and ship captains -- such as Capt. Francesco Schettino 
of the Costa Concordia. We got it. Okay, already. Change the subject.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Misunderstanding Rossi

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> I would suggest that he
> probably got €500M or more and now is working to achieve full duty
> operation in order to achieve a second milestone.

Check that.  "€500k" was what I intended to say.  But, as Bob has so
gracefully pointed out, I have a problem with exponents.

T

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

I cannot see colors well, I have some color blindness, deuteranomaly. Can
you enhance the image?

2012/1/19 Aussie Guy E-Cat 

> Daniel,
>
> Look at the stains on the floor in front of the opened doors of the BBB on
> 28 Oct and in the supposed 12 Jan video. No stains in the 12 Jan image and
> stains in the 28 Oct video. Also the 12 Jan BBB video is of a E-Cat in
> construction (lots of things inside not connected) and in the Oct 28 video
> of a completed plant.
>
> This suggests the 12 Jan 2012 video of the BBB was taken before 28 Oct
> 2011.
>
> However the images of the new home E-Cat prototype and the home sized
> parallel plate heat exchanger are new.
>
> AG
>
>
>
> On 19/01/2012 1:05 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
>> But it is odd that he shows right after that Australian PR failure, with
>> the missing conference, a video with the same container and same
>> attachments without any apparent modification. It's like he's saying
>> that there were no sale, no customer. It is like calling himself a scamer!
>>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


Daniel,

Look at the stains on the floor in front of the opened doors of the BBB 
on 28 Oct and in the supposed 12 Jan video. No stains in the 12 Jan 
image and stains in the 28 Oct video. Also the 12 Jan BBB video is of a 
E-Cat in construction (lots of things inside not connected) and in the 
Oct 28 video of a completed plant.


This suggests the 12 Jan 2012 video of the BBB was taken before 28 Oct 2011.

However the images of the new home E-Cat prototype and the home sized 
parallel plate heat exchanger are new.


AG


On 19/01/2012 1:05 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:

But it is odd that he shows right after that Australian PR failure, with
the missing conference, a video with the same container and same
attachments without any apparent modification. It's like he's saying
that there were no sale, no customer. It is like calling himself a scamer!

Re: [Vo]:Misunderstanding Rossi

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> The MIC seems to be independent of politics.

Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish between the tail and the dog.

T

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
 wrote:

> I suggest the 12 Jan images of the BBB are pre the 28 Oct test and we really
> can't date when the interview was done.

There are colored tags on the combination manifold at the bottom of
the B^3.  It looks to me that the tags are in the same position in
both videos.

T

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


Jones,

The only thing we do know for sure about that video is the date is was 
posted onto the internet.


I do note in the first 10 seconds of the video you can see inside what 
may be a prototype of the home E-Cat, with a home sized parallel plate 
heat exchanger in the background.


This is new and would suggest that at least the first part of the video 
was filmed post 28 Oct 2011.


To me the image of the Jan 12 plant looks to be earlier than the 28 Oct 
images from several details such as the floor stains, the work that is 
being done inside the BBB (lot of wires are not attached) and the Brown 
Box controller is not connected to the BBB.


Would think, being an engineer, if the plant had been returned, the 
first thing to do would be to attach the controller and run it up to 
recheck which modules are leaking.


I suggest the 12 Jan images of the BBB are pre the 28 Oct test and we 
really can't date when the interview was done.


AG


On 19/01/2012 12:23 PM, Jones Beene wrote:

AG,

I agree. However, even if the maker of the Jan 12 vid incorporated a clip of
the BBB from before it was shipped, we still have to deal with AR's
statement that he was "replacing gaskets" on that same unit at this time.
The location is not known but if it is "somewhere" besides Bologna, then
that is the problem ... since the statement came hours before the interview
- when we know he was in Bologna.

Was he at the customer's facility the afternoon before, and then caught a
quick flight back, to do the interview? That would explain it, but methinks
the strings of rationalization that make this episode "not seem" to be as
suspicious as it is - are getting longer by the hour.

Again, let me say that my problem is NOT with the technology, which is
valid, but with the man.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

But it is odd that he shows right after that Australian PR failure, with
the missing conference, a video with the same container and same
attachments without any apparent modification. It's like he's saying that
there were no sale, no customer. It is like calling himself a scamer!

2012/1/19 Jed Rothwell 

> Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>
>> Again, let me say that my problem is NOT with the technology, which is
>> valid, but with the man.
>>
>
> Again let me ask: IF the technology is valid then WHY do you give a rat's
> ass about the man?! What difference does he make? I cannot understand this
> obsession that you share with Mary Yugo about Rossi's personality and his
> personal business. Shrug your shoulders and stop thinking about him.
>
> He is a strange fellow. We all know that. He will be a rich source of
> biographies in the future. There have been many strange scientists and
> inventors, and also many strange programmers, farmers, grocery
> clerks, doctors and ship captains -- such as Capt. Francesco Schettino of
> the Costa Concordia. We got it. Okay, already. Change the subject.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Misunderstanding Rossi

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Douglas Hill  wrote:
> What if there was a political figure up for a re-election whose
> chances at re-election were iffy.

This would presume that the military supported the re-election of the
present political body.  That could be interesting if the Manchurian
Candidate was supported by the MIC that Eisenhower warned us about in
1961.  Otherwise, I would see no reason for the military to support
the current regime.

The MIC seems to be independent of politics.

T

Re: [Vo]:Misunderstanding Rossi

2012-01-18 Thread Douglas Hill

What if there was a political figure up for a re-election whose
chances at re-election were iffy.

How would this political figure use this to his advantage after other
various green energy initiatives back fired?

Would you have one of your agencies buy a few units and "work" with
the inventor to claim that this was a result of a special support
program to create new industry and jobs?

What would be the outcome of an announcement that the politician lead
the effort and provided financing and technical support for
development?

When would you have the scientist's come forward with the discovery?
Early fall?  Late summer?

October?

Remember Al Gore invented the Internet!

On Jan 18, 2012, at 9:04 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> Did anyone look for a time stamp on the video? It was obviously not taken at 
>> the same time at the earlier one, since the door is now closed. Also, when 
>> did the second video surface?
>>
>> Had Terry not posted that Rossi has already let it slip that he was 
>> replacing gaskets in the "megawatt unit," then it would be easy for him, or 
>> a supporter to say the second video was taken on October 29, say, right 
>> before it was to be shipped, and furthermore that Rossi was doing the work 
>> at the "customer's" facility. Rght.
>
> How has Rossi survived financially?
>
> When AR made his agreement with DGT, he made it clear that they could
> have rights to all "but the military".  Many on the internet
> interpreted this to mean that AR did NOT want his invention to be used
> by the military and assigned him to noble causes (not Nobel, who
> regretted making TNT).  Well, this author interpreted it differently.
> I saw it as an indication that AR already HAD AN AGREEMENT WITH THE
> MILITARY.  (I know, Mary, don't bother.)
>
> Now, all indications (to this author) is that AR is being funded by
> the military and his demonstration in October marked a milestone for a
> payment whether they took delivery or not.  I would suggest that he
> probably got €500M or more and now is working to achieve full duty
> operation in order to achieve a second milestone.
>
> Or not.
>
> T
>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

Jones Beene  wrote:

> Again, let me say that my problem is NOT with the technology, which is
> valid, but with the man.
>

Again let me ask: IF the technology is valid then WHY do you give a rat's
ass about the man?! What difference does he make? I cannot understand this
obsession that you share with Mary Yugo about Rossi's personality and his
personal business. Shrug your shoulders and stop thinking about him.

He is a strange fellow. We all know that. He will be a rich source of
biographies in the future. There have been many strange scientists and
inventors, and also many strange programmers, farmers, grocery
clerks, doctors and ship captains -- such as Capt. Francesco Schettino of
the Costa Concordia. We got it. Okay, already. Change the subject.

- Jed

[Vo]:Misunderstanding Rossi

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Did anyone look for a time stamp on the video? It was obviously not taken at 
> the same time at the earlier one, since the door is now closed. Also, when 
> did the second video surface?
>
> Had Terry not posted that Rossi has already let it slip that he was replacing 
> gaskets in the "megawatt unit," then it would be easy for him, or a supporter 
> to say the second video was taken on October 29, say, right before it was to 
> be shipped, and furthermore that Rossi was doing the work at the "customer's" 
> facility. Rght.

How has Rossi survived financially?

When AR made his agreement with DGT, he made it clear that they could
have rights to all "but the military".  Many on the internet
interpreted this to mean that AR did NOT want his invention to be used
by the military and assigned him to noble causes (not Nobel, who
regretted making TNT).  Well, this author interpreted it differently.
I saw it as an indication that AR already HAD AN AGREEMENT WITH THE
MILITARY.  (I know, Mary, don't bother.)

Now, all indications (to this author) is that AR is being funded by
the military and his demonstration in October marked a milestone for a
payment whether they took delivery or not.  I would suggest that he
probably got €500M or more and now is working to achieve full duty
operation in order to achieve a second milestone.

Or not.

T

Re: [Vo]:How Corporations Respond To Challenge

Zell, Chris  wrote:

IBM curses the day they chose hardware manufacture , handing over disc
> operating systems to some shlub named Gates.
>

I'll bet they do!

> Who knows?  Entrenched, pseudo-skepticism about LENR *might even save
> some inventor/researchers lives - allowing for it to emerge.*
>

I doubt anyone's life is at stake, or ever has been, but if the technology
survives it will be because the established vested interests ignored it
instead of trying to crush it.

Established companies usually do ignore threats to their existence, usually
until it is too late. They do not take competition seriously unless it
comes from an established competitor of their own size. Most competitors
play by the same rules, so they are seldom an existential threat. See the
books by Christensen for details.

http://www.claytonchristensen.com/

Established companies seldom if ever try to develop radically new
technology, especially when it is likely to shrink the overall dollar value
of the market.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

AG,

I agree. However, even if the maker of the Jan 12 vid incorporated a clip of
the BBB from before it was shipped, we still have to deal with AR's
statement that he was "replacing gaskets" on that same unit at this time.
The location is not known but if it is "somewhere" besides Bologna, then
that is the problem ... since the statement came hours before the interview
- when we know he was in Bologna. 

Was he at the customer's facility the afternoon before, and then caught a
quick flight back, to do the interview? That would explain it, but methinks
the strings of rationalization that make this episode "not seem" to be as
suspicious as it is - are getting longer by the hour.

Again, let me say that my problem is NOT with the technology, which is
valid, but with the man. 

Jones

-Original Message-
From: Aussie Guy E-Cat 

Jones,

All that can be said at the present point in time is the images are of the
same BBB. Until we can determine the date of the Jan 12 video 
interview's images of the BBB, any assumptions are just guess work.

Differential staining on the floor in front of the E-Cat plant is 
suggestive of the Jan 12 image actually being taken before the 28 Oct image.

AG

On 19/01/2012 11:41 AM, Jones Beene wrote:
> Daniel,
>
> You seem to be implying that you are content that Rossi could have lied
> about there being a mystery customer, when there was none; instead of
> that he lied about the customer sending it back?
>
> Jones

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


Jones,

All that can be said at the present point in time is the images are of 
the same BBB. Until we can determine the date of the Jan 12 video 
interview's images of the BBB, any assumptions are just guess work.


Differential staining on the floor in front of the E-Cat plant is 
suggestive of the Jan 12 image actually being taken before the 28 Oct image.



AG


On 19/01/2012 11:41 AM, Jones Beene wrote:

Daniel,

You seem to be implying that you are content that Rossi could have lied
about there being a mystery customer, when there was none; instead of
that he lied about the customer sending it back?

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

Oh, no, I am not content at all! In fact, this fact will disrupt my life so
terribly that I am right now going to a psychiatric emergency because I
want to kill myself! :P

2012/1/18 Jones Beene 

>  Daniel,
>
> ** **
>
> You seem to be implying that you are content that Rossi could have lied
> about there being a mystery customer, when there was none; instead of that
> he lied about the customer sending it back?
>
> ** **
>
> Jones
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Daniel Rocha 
>
> ** **
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> ** **
>
> It looks like the same container with exactly the same stuff attached on.*
> ***
>
> http://lenr.qumbu.com/120118_bbb_000.gif
>
>
> All 6 MB of it  
>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

Daniel,

 

You seem to be implying that you are content that Rossi could have lied
about there being a mystery customer, when there was none; instead of that
he lied about the customer sending it back?

 

Jones

 

From: Daniel Rocha 

 

Thank you very much!

 

It looks like the same container with exactly the same stuff attached on.

http://lenr.qumbu.com/120118_bbb_000.gif

All 6 MB of it

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

Thank you very much!

It looks like the same container with exactly the same stuff attached on.

2012/1/18 Alan J Fletcher 

> At 04:04 PM 1/18/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
>> I really really care about it! :)
>>
>
> http://lenr.qumbu.com/120118_**bbb_000.gif
>
> All 6 MB of it 
>



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


At 04:04 PM 1/18/2012, Daniel Rocha wrote:

I really really care about it! :)


http://lenr.qumbu.com/120118_bbb_000.gif

All 6 MB of it

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

-Original Message-
From: Wolf Fischer 

> I did some further analysis of the picture and I am now pretty sure that the 
> E-cat has either NOT been moved or it has been put back to exactly the same 
> position. 

Did anyone look for a time stamp on the video? It was obviously not taken at 
the same time at the earlier one, since the door is now closed. Also, when did 
the second video surface?

Had Terry not posted that Rossi has already let it slip that he was replacing 
gaskets in the "megawatt unit," then it would be easy for him, or a supporter 
to say the second video was taken on October 29, say, right before it was to be 
shipped, and furthermore that Rossi was doing the work at the "customer's" 
facility. Rght.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


Daniel,

So too do I care about these images!

What we don't really know is if the Jan 12 2012 video is really from Jan 
12 2012 or not. In the Oct 28 image there are a lot of stains on the 
floor in front of the E-Cat. In the Jan 12 images, these stains are 
missing. I do note there are other stains on the floor that are in both 
images.


I would expect that as time passes, the floor will accumulate more and 
more stains. Less stains = earlier photo, more stains = later photo


AG


On 19/01/2012 10:34 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote:

I really really care about it! :)

2012/1/18 Alan J Fletcher mailto:a...@well.com>>

At 03:18 PM 1/18/2012, Wolf Fischer wrote:

I did some further analysis of the picture and I am now pretty
sure that the Ecat has either NOT been moved or it has been put
back to exactly the same position. I have reuploaded the picture
in the following link:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-__images/696/ecatcollage.png/

The important stuff is in the pictures in row 3 (i drew a red
circle around the additional black lines and the crossings which
I think are important; At the back of the ecat I only inserted
the vertical black line, the crossing horizontal black line is
from the window / wall / whatever). Both vertically as well as
horizontally this seems to be the same position (give or take a
few centimeters because of the picture resolution as well as the
slightly different angle / position of the camera man).

Wolf


I photoshopped the heck out of it (Copying Line 3 first image over
second image, and then warping the first image to match the second).

Based on the 3 red cylinders and the pipes connecting to them, I'd
say that it's the exact same Big Blue Box.
The pipes seem to have exactly the same bends. And it doesn't seem
to have moved (or if so, not by more than a few inches).

If anyone really, really cares about it, I'll make an animated GIF
to fade from one image to the other.




--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

I have done a blink comparison. The 2 images were not taken from exactly
the same spot. I have tried to apply corrections.

https://picasaweb.google.com/100758632386227249211/January192012?authuser=0&feat=directlink

Apparently it is the same E-Cat BBB as from 28 Oct 2011. Look at the
orientation of the white labels on the 3 red bottles. They are identical
as are the angles of the pipes connecting them to the Fat E-Cat modules.

It is difficult to believe the Red bottles would have been screwed on
and fixed to their receptors at exactly the same rotation angle, so the
white labels are in exactly the same orientation in the 2 images.

Likewise for the vertical pipes. They are in the same relative alignment
and angle to each other on 12 Jan 2012 and 28 Oct 2011.

From those video based images I have assumed the 28 Oct 2011 BBB and
the 12 Jan 2012 BBB is the same BBB.

The position appears to be virtually the same judging from the front
edge of the left forward fork lift lifting hole versus the painted to
unpainted floor line where it crosses the bottom of the BBB and from the
alignment of the left rear upper corner of the BBB versus the frame work
on the upper wall of the building. If anything the Jan BBB may be
slightly closer to the door.

There has been work done inside the unit.

On 19/01/2012 5:17 AM, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

Hello group,

Have a look at this interesting Youtube video by ecat.com:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc

Apparently it's been filmed on January 12th. It shows that:
- Rossi is currently in Bologna
- Rossi's test site appears to be cold
- The 1 MW E-Cat container shown during the last "public" demo is in
Bologna too
- There appears to be a new control box.

Have I missed anything else?

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

I really really care about it! :)

2012/1/18 Alan J Fletcher 

> At 03:18 PM 1/18/2012, Wolf Fischer wrote:
>
>> I did some further analysis of the picture and I am now pretty sure that
>> the Ecat has either NOT been moved or it has been put back to exactly the
>> same position. I have reuploaded the picture in the following link:
>> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-**images/696/ecatcollage.png/
>> The important stuff is in the pictures in row 3 (i drew a red circle
>> around the additional black lines and the crossings which I think are
>> important; At the back of the ecat I only inserted the vertical black line,
>> the crossing horizontal black line is from the window / wall / whatever).
>> Both vertically as well as horizontally this seems to be the same position
>> (give or take a few centimeters because of the picture resolution as well
>> as the slightly different angle / position of the camera man).
>>
>> Wolf
>>
>
> I photoshopped the heck out of it (Copying Line 3 first image over second
> image, and then warping the first image to match the second).
>
> Based on the 3 red cylinders and the pipes connecting to them, I'd say
> that it's the exact same Big Blue Box.
> The pipes seem to have exactly the same bends. And it doesn't seem to have
> moved (or if so, not by more than a few inches).
>
> If anyone really, really cares about it, I'll make an animated GIF to fade
> from one image to the other.
>



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


At 03:18 PM 1/18/2012, Wolf Fischer wrote:
I did some further analysis of the picture and I am now pretty sure 
that the Ecat has either NOT been moved or it has been put back to 
exactly the same position. I have reuploaded the picture in the following link:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/ecatcollage.png/
The important stuff is in the pictures in row 3 (i drew a red circle 
around the additional black lines and the crossings which I think 
are important; At the back of the ecat I only inserted the vertical 
black line, the crossing horizontal black line is from the window / 
wall / whatever). Both vertically as well as horizontally this seems 
to be the same position (give or take a few centimeters because of 
the picture resolution as well as the slightly different angle / 
position of the camera man).


Wolf


I photoshopped the heck out of it (Copying Line 3 first image over 
second image, and then warping the first image to match the second).


Based on the 3 red cylinders and the pipes connecting to them, I'd 
say that it's the exact same Big Blue Box.
The pipes seem to have exactly the same bends. And it doesn't seem to 
have moved (or if so, not by more than a few inches).


If anyone really, really cares about it, I'll make an animated GIF to 
fade from one image to the other.

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread Patrick Ellul

The interview was in Bologna on Jan 12, but it does not mean that all the
footage in this video was also taken in Jan 12. Maybe it's a montage from
older videos.

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Wolf Fischer  wrote:

> I did some further analysis of the picture and I am now pretty sure that
> the Ecat has either NOT been moved or it has been put back to exactly the
> same position. I have reuploaded the picture in the following link:
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-**images/696/ecatcollage.png/
> The important stuff is in the pictures in row 3 (i drew a red circle
> around the additional black lines and the crossings which I think are
> important; At the back of the ecat I only inserted the vertical black line,
> the crossing horizontal black line is from the window / wall / whatever).
> Both vertically as well as horizontally this seems to be the same position
> (give or take a few centimeters because of the picture resolution as well
> as the slightly different angle / position of the camera man).
>
> Wolf
>
>
>
>  Akira,
>>
>> Then are you saying Rossi was a bit untruthful when he said the customer
>> was
>> completely satisfied with the demo, and took delivery?
>>
>> Anyway - I'm not so sure that it is exactly in the same position on Jan 12
>> as Oct 28.
>>
>> It is in a similar position, as it would need to be, near the loading dock
>> door and on the mat.
>>
>> Jones
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Akira Shirakawa
>>
>>  It looks like the container has never been moved from its original
>>>
>> location.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> S.A.
>>
>>
>


-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread Robert Lynn

I agree, the positioning and detail of the container seems identical to a
degree that is unlikely if it were not the same container.  Is it
absolutely sure that these videos were taken months apart?

On 18 January 2012 23:18, Wolf Fischer  wrote:

> I did some further analysis of the picture and I am now pretty sure that
> the Ecat has either NOT been moved or it has been put back to exactly the
> same position. I have reuploaded the picture in the following link:
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-**images/696/ecatcollage.png/
> The important stuff is in the pictures in row 3 (i drew a red circle
> around the additional black lines and the crossings which I think are
> important; At the back of the ecat I only inserted the vertical black line,
> the crossing horizontal black line is from the window / wall / whatever).
> Both vertically as well as horizontally this seems to be the same position
> (give or take a few centimeters because of the picture resolution as well
> as the slightly different angle / position of the camera man).
>
> Wolf
>
>
>
>  Akira,
>>
>> Then are you saying Rossi was a bit untruthful when he said the customer
>> was
>> completely satisfied with the demo, and took delivery?
>>
>> Anyway - I'm not so sure that it is exactly in the same position on Jan 12
>> as Oct 28.
>>
>> It is in a similar position, as it would need to be, near the loading dock
>> door and on the mat.
>>
>> Jones
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Akira Shirakawa
>>
>>  It looks like the container has never been moved from its original
>>>
>> location.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> S.A.
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

I did some further analysis of the picture and I am now pretty sure that 
the Ecat has either NOT been moved or it has been put back to exactly 
the same position. I have reuploaded the picture in the following link:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/ecatcollage.png/
The important stuff is in the pictures in row 3 (i drew a red circle 
around the additional black lines and the crossings which I think are 
important; At the back of the ecat I only inserted the vertical black 
line, the crossing horizontal black line is from the window / wall / 
whatever). Both vertically as well as horizontally this seems to be the 
same position (give or take a few centimeters because of the picture 
resolution as well as the slightly different angle / position of the 
camera man).


Wolf



Akira,

Then are you saying Rossi was a bit untruthful when he said the customer was
completely satisfied with the demo, and took delivery?

Anyway - I'm not so sure that it is exactly in the same position on Jan 12
as Oct 28.

It is in a similar position, as it would need to be, near the loading dock
door and on the mat.

Jones


-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa


It looks like the container has never been moved from its original

location.

Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

Akira,

Then are you saying Rossi was a bit untruthful when he said the customer was
completely satisfied with the demo, and took delivery?

Anyway - I'm not so sure that it is exactly in the same position on Jan 12
as Oct 28. 

It is in a similar position, as it would need to be, near the loading dock
door and on the mat. 

Jones


-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa 

> It looks like the container has never been moved from its original
location.

Cheers,
S.A.

<>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

Just some speculation from my side, but I think that the reactor has 
been moved at least once. In the following video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t19C-7WJPTM&feature=related

taken from the october 28th, the camera man starts at the back of the 
BBB and then moves along the left side of the reactor to the front. On 
the left side, there is another table standing and still the camera man 
seems to get though without problems. If you compare this to the 
pictures from my collage (especially at 1,1), there seems to be less 
space on the picture, especially at the "opening" to the front. But 
perhaps this is just my perception.


Wolf

Akira Shirakawa > wrote:


Thanks for the collage. It looks like the container has never been
moved from its original location.


It is probably the same container, in that case. I think it would be 
difficult to place a second one in exactly the same spot.


I was watching people erect a concrete parking garage the other day. 
They were moving huge beams and pre-formed slabs into precisely 
aligned positions, with a crane. This can be done, but it is a lot of 
work. I assume if they brought in a second shipping container they 
would not go to the effort to set it down precisely where the first 
one was.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint <
zeropo...@charter.net> wrote:

> 1) so they are wearing jackets in the warehouse; in many tilt-up
> industrial parks like this, a small (front) section is walled off and made
> into offices and *is* heated, whereas the large warehouse section is not
> heated to save on heating costs.
>

Tell me again why the office and wharehouse of the owner of a megawatt
plant whose output is thermal remains frigidly cold?   Reminds me of these:

http://www.moletrap.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Rossicaptions

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread John Milstone

If this container looks like the same container, in the exact same spot, and it 
is unlikely that they would go to the trouble of repeatedly placing different 
containers (or the same container multiple times) in the exact spot, doesn't 
that mean that the original 1-MW container has never left Rossi's facility?

What does that suggest about his story that the "secret" customer took delivery 
of it?

John



 From: Jed Rothwell 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
 


It is probably the same container, in that case. I think it would be difficult 
to place a second one in exactly the same spot.

I was watching people erect a concrete parking garage the other day. They were 
moving huge beams and pre-formed slabs into precisely aligned positions, with a 
crane. This can be done, but it is a lot of work. I assume if they brought in a 
second shipping container they would not go to the effort to set it down 
precisely where the first one was.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi selling Licenses?

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Until the NI control system is developed, Rossi is the only operator
> qualified to keep the E-Cat within operational limits through manual
> control.
>
>
>
> Because of improper temperature control due to operational inexperience
> and/or ineptness, another untrained outside tester will either cause the
> E-Cat to flame out or melt down. Rossi may change his mind about letting a
> third party operator get his hand on the controls of the E-Cat for demos
> when the moron/snake proof automated control system is debugged and made
> operational.
>

I would just love to see a melt down or even better one of those famous
explosions Rossi mentioned on his blog a while back.   Then we could
measure the yield and learn something maybe.  Of course it should be out in
the desert where nobody would be hurt.  I wish Rossi would give us just one
explosion.  I'd settle for 0.01 kiloton-hr per hr (just Rossifying the
units).

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread Jouni Valkonen

On 18 January 2012 23:57, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Akira Shirakawa  wrote:
>
>
>> Thanks for the collage. It looks like the container has never been moved
>> from its original location.
>>
>
> It is probably the same container, in that case. I think it would be
> difficult to place a second one in exactly the same spot.
>
> And also demoplants ad hoc configuration where ecats were stacked on top
of the container does not look like that it was indented for sale. It still
looks more like a prototype than actual product for sale.

–Jouni

[Vo]:How Corporations Respond To Challenge

2012-01-18 Thread Zell, Chris

Once upon a time, a fellow named Ralph challenged GM because of their dangerous 
products.  How did they respond to this technological/legal issue? Simply 
apologize and fix the problem with the Corvair's rear axle (I owned one)? No, 
GM hired investigators to dig up some dirt on Ralph Nader and also tried to 
entrap him with prostitutes ( didn't work, he was frustratingly pure)

http://www.harley.com/people/ralph-nader.html

In Senate testimony, GM was forced to apologize to Nader.

Ask yourself, how much of the iceberg is below water, unseen?  How far would a 
corporation or the government go to prevent disruptive technology?  Remember 
though, first they must perceive something as disruptive.  It does no good if 
the technology emerges too quickly or too indistinctly for them to respond in 
time.  Long distance carriers and other utilities companies lamented their 
failure to apply better (metered) charges for internet use, while it was still 
in its infancy.   IBM curses the day they chose hardware manufacture , handing 
over disc operating systems to some shlub named Gates.

Who knows?  Entrenched, pseudo-skepticism about LENR might even save some 
inventor/researchers lives - allowing for it to emerge.

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

Akira Shirakawa  wrote:

> Thanks for the collage. It looks like the container has never been moved
> from its original location.
>

It is probably the same container, in that case. I think it would be
difficult to place a second one in exactly the same spot.

I was watching people erect a concrete parking garage the other day. They
were moving huge beams and pre-formed slabs into precisely aligned
positions, with a crane. This can be done, but it is a lot of work. I
assume if they brought in a second shipping container they would not go to
the effort to set it down precisely where the first one was.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Congress responds quickly to opposition to SOPA and PIPA -- how this relates to cold fusion


Jed,

I agree with you that it all depends on how fast the LENR community gets 
the truth out. Therefore, as much as I would prefer your scenario over 
Eds, getting the truth out is exactly the problem IMHO: The media will 
brainwash people and the big energy lobby will brainwash the 
politicians. Let some mass media promote the idea that "cold fusion" 
involves a nuclear reaction (also including some gamma rays) and nuclear 
reactions are bad (just look at Fukushima). Just some stupid statement 
like this and it will become much more difficult and will take a longer 
time to get the truth out. Additional time which will help lobbyists to 
force some political actions regarding "the protection of the economy" 
(which is not that far fetched regarding a short term view and this is 
what it is mostly about today, sadly enough). Therefore you would have 
fear for your health (gamma rays...) and fear for your job. It's fear 
which helps you steer the people.


Wolf

Google, Wikipedia and many other web sites are campaigning against the 
proposed laws governing the Internet, the so-called SOPA and PIPA 
acts. Key supporters of the acts in Congress have already bowed to 
public pressure. The acts are not likely to pass. See:


http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/01/16/jimmy_wales_wikipedia_blackout_to_protest_sopa_on_wednesday.html 



If it becomes generally known that cold fusion is real, and that it 
will save thousands of dollars a year per person, there will be an 
enormous brouhaha in the mass media. There is likely to be opposition 
to cold fusion from the fossil fuel industry, the DoE and others. Some 
people, including Ed Storms, predict that it may take many years to 
push aside this opposition to allow reactors and commercial 
development in the U.S. I suppose that is possible, but I predict 
another scenario. I predict that people will be outraged when they 
learn that vested interests are preventing them from saving huge sums 
of money. Nothing excites people more than money. Nothing is more 
likely to trigger widespread activism. I predict the voters will raise 
hell, the way they are today with SOPA and PIPA. Within months, or 
perhaps even weeks, the opposition will be swept aside.


I predicate this prediction on the hope that the public becomes fully 
aware of the potential of cold fusion. It is possible this potential 
will not be reported in the mass media. Perhaps the mass media will 
continue to report the kind of nonsense Mark Gibbs in Forbes has been 
publishing lately. In that case, all bets are off. Cold fusion will be 
effectively suppressed if that happens.


It all depends on whether we can reach the public, and motivate the 
public. I quoted a British engineer in the intro to my book, who 
described how it was that effective anti-pollution laws were finally 
passed in England, after centuries of dithering: "on public opinion, 
and on it alone, finally rests the issue."


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:New Krivit Stuff

2012-01-18 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson

I'm not 100% sure of this but it is my understanding Mr.Krivit isn't a
member of CMNS.

The implication is that someone (or several individuals) who are CMNS
members privately feed Krivit CMNS information.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling

Where’s the proof?

 

From: fznidar...@aol.com 

 

"The Constants of the Motion Tend toward the Electromagnetic in a Bose 
condensate stimulated at a Dimensional Frequency of 1.094 megahertz meters"  
Frank Znidarsic 1999. 

 

As before, Mechanical waves couple with electromagnetic waves under this 
condition.

 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 

Yes, and let me add this. 

 

Peter Hagelstein has been the primary proponent of the “magic phonon” 
hypothesis - the nearly complete adsorption of gamma rays by phonons - but he 
is quick to admit there is no physical evidence for it.

 

What he does not say is that the evidence would be incredibly easy for him to 
demonstrate, if it were there - and moreover - within walking distance for him 
to find the proper place to do it. 

 

He can get surely get free time on a beam line at MIT or other source of gamma 
radiation. Following which, the procedure to measure Pd-D to see if it does 
absorb gammas (nearly perfectly) or not, is almost self-evident. 

 

Yes, It is that simple ! … yet it has not been done. Connect the dots. The lack 
of evidence in this case, where it should be so simple to come by, is itself 
evidence indicating that the magic-phonon hypothesis is bogus. 

 

Jones

 

From: Nigel Dyer 

 

I think we should be considering the possibility that there are no gammas in 
the first place.   After the LENR event the nucleus will be in a highly excited 
and state and will need to release its energy.   The conventional route is via 
gamma (and/or an energetic particle) with the options determined by energy and 
momentum balance.

One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is some 
kind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within the 
lattice.   The more quanta of energy there is associated with the mode, the 
higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited state will be 
coupled into the state  (because quanta of vibrational energy obey Bose 
statistics).  This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state, much in 
the manner of a laser.  This may be the route that the energy from the excited 
Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal lattice energy, via the 
intermediate resonant mode.  

The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the 1960's

  
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429

If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we can 
extract the energy from the mode before it is thermalized, which would 
dramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work, 
such as generate electricity.

Nigel



Jones Beene wrote: 

 

Hi Mark 

 

Good finds – burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the 
massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into phonons. 
In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can happen.

 

Jones

[Vo]:Congress responds quickly to opposition to SOPA and PIPA -- how this relates to cold fusion

Google, Wikipedia and many other web sites are campaigning against the
proposed laws governing the Internet, the so-called SOPA and PIPA acts. Key
supporters of the acts in Congress have already bowed to public pressure.
The acts are not likely to pass. See:

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/01/16/jimmy_wales_wikipedia_blackout_to_protest_sopa_on_wednesday.html

If it becomes generally known that cold fusion is real, and that it will
save thousands of dollars a year per person, there will be an
enormous brouhaha in the mass media. There is likely to be opposition to
cold fusion from the fossil fuel industry, the DoE and others. Some people,
including Ed Storms, predict that it may take many years to push aside this
opposition to allow reactors and commercial development in the U.S. I
suppose that is possible, but I predict another scenario. I predict that
people will be outraged when they learn that vested interests are
preventing them from saving huge sums of money. Nothing excites people more
than money. Nothing is more likely to trigger widespread activism. I
predict the voters will raise hell, the way they are today with SOPA and
PIPA. Within months, or perhaps even weeks, the opposition will be swept
aside.

I predicate this prediction on the hope that the public becomes fully aware
of the potential of cold fusion. It is possible this potential will not be
reported in the mass media. Perhaps the mass media will continue to report
the kind of nonsense Mark Gibbs in Forbes has been publishing lately. In
that case, all bets are off. Cold fusion will be effectively suppressed if
that happens.

It all depends on whether we can reach the public, and motivate the public.
I quoted a British engineer in the intro to my book, who described how it
was that effective anti-pollution laws were finally passed in England,
after centuries of dithering: "on public opinion, and on it alone, finally
rests the issue."

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR G & Silver & Currency

2012-01-18 Thread mixent

In reply to  Eric Walker's message of Tue, 17 Jan 2012 19:57:36 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
>What if you could
>take something like uranium-238, which is relatively abundant, add
>sufficient neutrons to it and then let it alpha and beta decay to
>uranium-235?

Since any amount of U235 created would be small, you would still have the
problem of extracting it from the U238, just as you do with natural Uranium.

In short no one would bother. Why wait years to get the equivalent of something
that you can dig out of the ground right now?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:New Krivit Stuff

I don't like Krivits behavior, still: Why don't they just throw him out 
/ cancel his membership / whatsoever? Shouldn't be too difficult, or? 
Also, if information should be kept confidential, then why post it on 
any kind of semi-public forum?

Wolf

It wouldn't be the first time that Krivit would have released 
something that he shouldn't have.
All of the recent info that comes to mind was all derived from CMNS 
communications.

> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:19:41 +0100
> From: shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Krivit Stuff
>
> On 2012-01-18 21:12, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
> > Two new entries .. both interesting
> >
> > High-Energy Meets Low-Energy: A First at CERN
> > 
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/16/high-energy-meets-low-energy-a-first-at-cern/

>
> According to Daniele Passerini (22passi), who's received a copy as 
well,

> Celani's email about CERN was supposed to remain confidential, and I
> think there might have been good reasons for that.
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>

Re: [Vo]:New Krivit Stuff : National Instruments

The National Instruments press release (although interesting) is quite 
"old" (from November 14th). Here is the original:

http://digital.ni.com/worldwide/bwcontent.nsf/websearch/2c6b449a3f0f8f3a862579480060a07f

Wolf


At 12:19 PM 1/18/2012, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

On 2012-01-18 21:12, Alan J Fletcher wrote:

Two new entries .. both interesting

High-Energy Meets Low-Energy: A First at CERN
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/16/high-energy-meets-low-energy-a-first-at-cern/ 



According to Daniele Passerini (22passi), who's received a copy as 
well, Celani's email about CERN was supposed to remain confidential, 
and I think there might have been good reasons for that.


22passi also has a National Instruments (Italy) Press Release  -- with 
CERN and Rossi (Leonardi) in the same paragraph !


http://22passi.blogspot.com/2012/01/se-ha-ragione-ocasapiens.html

Link to

http://digital.ni.com/worldwide/bwcontent.nsf/web/all/0EDB0AF6A3E7862579560030DDD8 



Google translate :


National Instruments provides solutions in the field of high energy
physics

PRESS RELEASE - National Instruments continues to provide measurement
and control technologies for high performance in research and physics.
NI offers standard commercial tools (COTS - commercial off-the-shelf)
to support thousands of technicians and engineers working to meet the
challenges of the alternative energy sector with sophisticated devices.
With the design of software systems NI LabVIEW , modular
instrumentation PXI platform, reconfigurable control and acquisition NI
CompactRIO and other tools, National Instruments has supported many
researchers to simplify the development of projects, offering advanced
control solutions that would otherwise be been prohibitively expensive.
"For over 35 years, National Instruments has offered to innovators
the
tools they need to cope with major engineering challenges in the
world," said Stephen Concezzi, sciences segment manager at National
Instruments and big physics. "We are excited about the many
opportunities to support our customers to simplify the development of
energy projects or advanced physics." Innovators around the world
use
the approach of the graphic design of NI to respond effectively to
major engineering challenges in the medical field , in urban
infrastructure, alternative energy and other critical applications in
character. Especially in the field of physics, NI has provided
solutions to some of the most advanced projects including the ' LHC
(Large Hadron Collider) at CERN and the control systems of Tokamak . In
addition, the Corporation intends to enter Leonardo NI tools in its
control system. For more info on NI solutions for big physics
applications visit ni.com / physics . About National Instruments
National Instruments ( italy.ni.com ) is revolutionizing the way in
which engineers and scientists design, prototype and deploy systems for
measurement, automation and embedded applications.

Re: [Vo]:New Krivit Stuff : National Instruments



At 12:19 PM 1/18/2012, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
On 2012-01-18 21:12, Alan J
Fletcher wrote:
Two new entries .. both
interesting
High-Energy Meets Low-Energy: A First at CERN

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/16/high-energy-meets-low-energy-a-first-at-cern/

According to Daniele Passerini (22passi), who's received a copy as well,
Celani's email about CERN was supposed to remain confidential, and I
think there might have been good reasons for that.
22passi also has a National Instruments (Italy) Press Release  --
with CERN and Rossi (Leonardi) in the same paragraph !

http://22passi.blogspot.com/2012/01/se-ha-ragione-ocasapiens.html

Link to

http://digital.ni.com/worldwide/bwcontent.nsf/web/all/0EDB0AF6A3E7862579560030DDD8
 
Google translate :

National Instruments provides solutions in the field of high energy
physics

PRESS RELEASE - National Instruments continues to provide measurement
and control technologies for high performance in research and physics.
NI offers standard commercial tools (COTS - commercial off-the-shelf)
to support thousands of technicians and engineers working to meet the
challenges of the alternative energy sector with sophisticated devices.
With the design of software systems NI LabVIEW , modular
instrumentation PXI platform, reconfigurable control and acquisition NI
CompactRIO and other tools, National Instruments has supported many
researchers to simplify the development of projects, offering advanced
control solutions that would otherwise be been prohibitively expensive.
"For over 35 years, National Instruments has offered to innovators
the
tools they need to cope with major engineering challenges in the
world," said Stephen Concezzi, sciences segment manager at National
Instruments and big physics. "We are excited about the many
opportunities to support our customers to simplify the development of
energy projects or advanced physics." Innovators around the world
use
the approach of the graphic design of NI to respond effectively to
major engineering challenges in the medical field , in urban
infrastructure, alternative energy and other critical applications in
character. Especially in the field of physics, NI has provided
solutions to some of the most advanced projects including the ' LHC
(Large Hadron Collider) at CERN and the control systems of Tokamak . In
addition, the Corporation intends to enter Leonardo NI tools in its
control system. For more info on NI solutions for big physics
applications visit ni.com / physics . About National Instruments
National Instruments ( italy.ni.com ) is revolutionizing the way in
which engineers and scientists design, prototype and deploy systems for
measurement, automation and embedded applications.

Re: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling

2012-01-18 Thread fznidarsic

"The Constants of the Motion Tend toward the Electromagnetic in a Bose 
condensate stimulated at a Dimensional Frequency of 1.094 megahertz meters"  
Frank Znidarsic 1999.


As before, Mechanical waves couple with electromagnetic waves under this 
condition.










-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 6:48 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling



Yes, and let me add this. 
 
Peter Hagelstein has beenthe primary proponent of the “magic phonon” hypothesis 
- the nearlycomplete adsorption of gamma rays by phonons - but he is quick to 
admit thereis no physical evidence for it.
 
What he does not say is thatthe evidence would be incredibly easy for him to 
demonstrate, if it were there- and moreover - within walking distance for him 
to find the proper place to doit. 
 
He can get surely get freetime on a beam line at MIT or other source of gamma 
radiation. Following which,the procedure to measure Pd-D to see if it does 
absorb gammas (nearly perfectly)or not, is almost self-evident. 
 
Yes, It is that simple ! …yet it has not been done. Connect the dots. The lack 
of evidence in this case, whereit should be so simple to come by, is itself 
evidence indicating that themagic-phonon hypothesis is bogus. 
 
Jones
 
From:Nigel Dyer 
 
I think we should be considering the possibility thatthere are no gammas in the 
first place.   After the LENR event thenucleus will be in a highly excited and 
state and will need to release itsenergy.   The conventional route is via gamma 
(and/or an energeticparticle) with the options determined by energy and 
momentum balance.

One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is 
somekind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within 
thelattice.   The more quanta of energy there is associated with themode, the 
higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited statewill be 
coupled into the state  (because quanta of vibrational energy obeyBose 
statistics).  This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state,much in 
the manner of a laser.  This may be the route that the energy fromthe excited 
Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal latticeenergy, via the 
intermediate resonant mode.  

The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the 1960's

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429

If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we canextract 
the energy from the mode before it is thermalized, which woulddramatically 
increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work,such as generate 
electricity.

Nigel


Jones Beene wrote: 
 
Hi Mark 
 
Good finds – burning themidnight oil it seems - but for the record, the massive 
preponderance ofevidence is that gammas are not absorbed into phonons. In fact 
there is not asingle shred of evidence that this can happen.
 
Jones

Re: [Vo]:Rossi selling Licenses?

2012-01-18 Thread Chemical Engineer

Axil,

It may not just be the control system.  If the reactor actually works
(questionable) unless it is designed correctly with proper thermal/heat
transfer surface, etc.  it may not be able to get rid of the heat properly
if the reaction hits a sweet spot.  W & L gave a low estimate of 4000 x
chemical (conservatively down from 8M x chemical potential) on one of their
slides and that could potentially be alot of heat to get rid of in a short
period of time if the right conditions are met.  Just a lump of powder in a
reactor chamber would have a very hard time transferring that energy
without overheating/melting.  Co-deposition of the reactants onto a heat
transfer surface sounds like a good solution to me.

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Until the NI control system is developed, Rossi is the only operator
> qualified to keep the E-Cat within operational limits through manual
> control.
>
>
>
> Because of improper temperature control due to operational inexperience
> and/or ineptness, another untrained outside tester will either cause the
> E-Cat to flame out or melt down. Rossi may change his mind about letting a
> third party operator get his hand on the controls of the E-Cat for demos
> when the moron/snake proof automated control system is debugged and made
> operational.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Mary Yugo  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:55 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat <
>> aussieguy.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Terry,
>>>
>>> I find it difficult to believe these guys would not be able to get Rossi
>>> on a Skype connection, especially as they had Dick Smith's $200k riding on
>>> the call.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps Rossi did not want to be found. Dick Smith's $200K was contingent
>> on an independent test.  Rossi does not want independent tests as he has
>> said many times.  Where are the tests promised by the Universities of
>> Bologna and Upsala?   Last year they were fervently promised to come
>> "soon". Now, they are "not needed".One can only venture a guess
>> about the reasons why, LOL.
>>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:New Krivit Stuff

2012-01-18 Thread Robert Leguillon


It wouldn't be the first time that Krivit would have released something that he 
shouldn't have.
All of the recent info that comes to mind was all derived from CMNS 
communications.
 

> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:19:41 +0100
> From: shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Krivit Stuff
> 
> On 2012-01-18 21:12, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
> > Two new entries .. both interesting
> >
> > High-Energy Meets Low-Energy: A First at CERN
> > http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/16/high-energy-meets-low-energy-a-first-at-cern/
> 
> According to Daniele Passerini (22passi), who's received a copy as well, 
> Celani's email about CERN was supposed to remain confidential, and I 
> think there might have been good reasons for that.
> 
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread Akira Shirakawa


On 2012-01-18 20:44, Wolf Fischer wrote:


thanks for the vid! I have taken the liberty of creating a little
collage where I try to compare pictures of the different 1 MW units
which I have found (one version from mid september, one from the
beginning of october, then the 1MW plant from the end of october as well
as the newest one)


Thanks for the collage. It looks like the container has never been moved 
from its original location.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:New Krivit Stuff

2012-01-18 Thread Akira Shirakawa


On 2012-01-18 21:12, Alan J Fletcher wrote:

Two new entries .. both interesting

High-Energy Meets Low-Energy: A First at CERN
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/16/high-energy-meets-low-energy-a-first-at-cern/


According to Daniele Passerini (22passi), who's received a copy as well, 
Celani's email about CERN was supposed to remain confidential, and I 
think there might have been good reasons for that.


Cheers,
S.A.

[Vo]:New Krivit Stuff



Two new entries .. both interesting
High-Energy Meets Low-Energy: A First at CERN
<
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/16/high-energy-meets-low-energy-a-first-at-cern/
>
...
Jan. 16, 2012: Celani reports in an e-mail to LENR researchers that he
has received an invitation to speak at CERN about LENR.
The key point is that CERN changed from [being] fully negative to
[having] deep interest, Celani wrote.
- - - - - - - - - - -
Prescient 1994 Insights From Fleischmann, Pons and Preparata on LENR
Theory
<
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/17/prescient-1994-insights-from-fleischmann-pons-and-preparata-on-lenr-theory/
>
An article by Larsen. Links to an "unknown" paper :
> Before May 2008, we had never encountered this paper in our many
Internet searches for citable prior publications on low-energy nuclear
reaction research theory. But in May 2008, it suddenly popped up on a
search. 
Possible Theories of Cold Fusion
<
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/library/1994/1994FleischmannPonsPreparata-PossibleTheories.pdf
>
[  followed by an explanation of how FPP described aspects of WL
theory ]
(You can also get it at 
<
http://www.lenr-canr.org/PDetail3.htm#1066> Fleischmann, M., S.
Pons, and G. Preparata, Possible theories of cold fusion. Nuovo
Cimento Soc. Ital. Fis. A, 1994. 107: p. 143. )

(lenr.qumbu.com -- analyzing the Rossi/Focardi eCat  -- Hi,
google!)

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


S.A.,

thanks for the vid! I have taken the liberty of creating a little 
collage where I try to compare pictures of the different 1 MW units 
which I have found (one version from mid september, one from the 
beginning of october, then the 1MW plant from the end of october as well 
as the newest one)


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/ecatcollage.png/

(You might have to download the complete picture to your HDD in order to 
see all the details, as this is over 4 MB in size!)


You can see slight changes between the newest one and the one from the 
end of october (compare row 2, columns 1 and 2, on the first picture, 
the newest one is missing two reactors, perhaps they haven't been put 
in), however this doesn't prove anything (as always...). Then the 
"sheath" of the tubes next to Rossi in the 6th october test seem to be 
of a different material than the one on the newest cat (however this 
might be due to different light exposure). On row 2, column 2 you can 
also see an additional red vessel (hydrogen container?). In row 3, 
column 1 and 2, those red vessels all seem to face the same direction.


Regarding new information: One thing that you didn't mention: ecat.com 
says that domestic Ecats will be ready for the market 12 to 18 month (I 
think they mean 12 to 18 month from now, as they do not state this 
precisely; so this means that availability might be pushed back until 
summer next year; this doesn't really surprise me...).


Wolf



Hello group,

Have a look at this interesting Youtube video by ecat.com:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc

Apparently it's been filmed on January 12th. It shows that:
- Rossi is currently in Bologna
- Rossi's test site appears to be cold
- The 1 MW E-Cat container shown during the last "public" demo is in 
Bologna too

- There appears to be a new control box.

Have I missed anything else?

Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

I found his statement quite accurate, and reveals his thinking:
"This is a revolution... and for a revolution to be successful, it needs to be 
popular."

He very much understands that the power-centers in the world are going to be 
*very* resistant to change, and that the only hope for success with a 
revolutionary technology is to make it s popular with the masses, that the 
power-centers must endorse it, or else risk becoming obsolete.  Excellent 
strategy, and on target... now, all he has to do is make the technology work 
long-term!!!  :-)

-mark

-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:48 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

Hello group,

Have a look at this interesting Youtube video by ecat.com:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc

Apparently it's been filmed on January 12th. It shows that:
- Rossi is currently in Bologna
- Rossi's test site appears to be cold
- The 1 MW E-Cat container shown during the last "public" demo is in Bologna too
- There appears to be a new control box.

Have I missed anything else?

Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

1) so they are wearing jackets in the warehouse; in many tilt-up industrial 
parks like this, a small (front) section is walled off and made into offices 
and *is* heated, whereas the large warehouse section is not heated to save on 
heating costs.

2) Geez, I think there is more than one large shipping container in the world. 
For christ's sake, he very likely obtained another container immediately after 
the other one left!  After all, IF he had an actual customer for the first one 
as Jones says, then he OBVIOUSLY is working on getting the next one ready, and 
would have obtained another container and begun installing all the 'guts'.  It 
is now over two months since the first one was taken away, so how much time is 
needed to install the guts??? If you've got all the e-Cats, then installing 
racking and wiring and piping, etc. wouldn't take more than a few weeks at most.

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:57 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

"Have I missed anything else?"

Only the lie where Rossi says the "customer" did not return it.



-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa 

Hello group,

Have a look at this interesting Youtube video by ecat.com:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc

Apparently it's been filmed on January 12th. It shows that:
- Rossi is currently in Bologna
- Rossi's test site appears to be cold
- The 1 MW E-Cat container shown during the last "public" demo is in Bologna too
- There appears to be a new control box.

Have I missed anything else?

Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com


At 10:56 AM 1/18/2012, Jones Beene wrote:

"Have I missed anything else?"

Only the lie where Rossi says the "customer" did not return it.


Distinguish between "Return for a refund" vs "Returned for fitting a 
new control unit".


What's that gray bulb attached to what looks like the heat exchanger.
Maybe just a "water knock" suppresser (I can't think of the technical 
name ... I had one attached to my well water pump).

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

"Have I missed anything else?"

Only the lie where Rossi says the "customer" did not return it.



-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa 

Hello group,

Have a look at this interesting Youtube video by ecat.com:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc

Apparently it's been filmed on January 12th. It shows that:
- Rossi is currently in Bologna
- Rossi's test site appears to be cold
- The 1 MW E-Cat container shown during the last "public" demo is in 
Bologna too
- There appears to be a new control box.

Have I missed anything else?

Cheers,
S.A.

[Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

2012-01-18 Thread Akira Shirakawa


Hello group,

Have a look at this interesting Youtube video by ecat.com:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc

Apparently it's been filmed on January 12th. It shows that:
- Rossi is currently in Bologna
- Rossi's test site appears to be cold
- The 1 MW E-Cat container shown during the last "public" demo is in 
Bologna too

- There appears to be a new control box.

Have I missed anything else?

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi selling Licenses?

Until the NI control system is developed, Rossi is the only operator
qualified to keep the E-Cat within operational limits through manual
control.

Because of improper temperature control due to operational inexperience
and/or ineptness, another untrained outside tester will either cause the
E-Cat to flame out or melt down. Rossi may change his mind about letting a
third party operator get his hand on the controls of the E-Cat for demos
when the moron/snake proof automated control system is debugged and made
operational.

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Mary Yugo  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:55 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat <
> aussieguy.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Terry,
>>
>> I find it difficult to believe these guys would not be able to get Rossi
>> on a Skype connection, especially as they had Dick Smith's $200k riding on
>> the call.
>>
>
> Perhaps Rossi did not want to be found. Dick Smith's $200K was contingent
> on an independent test.  Rossi does not want independent tests as he has
> said many times.  Where are the tests promised by the Universities of
> Bologna and Upsala?   Last year they were fervently promised to come
> "soon". Now, they are "not needed".One can only venture a guess
> about the reasons why, LOL.
>

Re: [Vo]:Dick Smith warns against investing in cold fusion

Do you subscribe that newspaper?

2012/1/18 Mary Yugo 

>
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>> That worked out well. Good job Andrea! See:
>>
>>
>> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/dick-smith-warns-against-investment-in-cold-fusion-technology/story-e6frg8y6-122624779456
>>
>>
> Six lines of text about a missed meeting is probably not going to pull
> back Rossi very much.  The question is why Dick Smith said anything about
> it and why he didn't reschedule the meeting.  Maybe someone should ask him
> what else he knows or thinks he knows.
>



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

RE: [Vo]:Dick Smith warns against investing in cold fusion

2012-01-18 Thread Robert Leguillon


The article is not viewable in its entirety from your link, but if Vortexians 
would like access to the whole article, it can be accessed via a quick Google 
News search.
 
I think that we're all still in wait-and-see mode regarding Rossi and 
Defkalion.  
The only thing that I have taken away from this is that MY's assertion (that 
Rossi could be pulling an investor fraud scheme) now has some evidenciary 
basis: 
 
  "Mr Millin, 67, told The Australian yesterday he had threatened to sue Mr 
Smith for $100m because he believed he had proved the technology worked and 
that he was owed the $200,000. He said Byron New Energy Charitable Trust had 
planned to use some of that money (understood to be $100,000) to buy the 
Australian rights to the technology." 
(http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/lure-of-cold-fusion-backfires/story-e6frg8y6-1226246813122)
 
There now appears to be direct evidence of non-customer investments for country 
licensing for the first time since Ampenergo/Defkalion.  When these factors are 
added to analysis of Rossi's actions, it renders arguments of "he can't be 
scamming anyone, because his customers' money will be in escrow until they are 
satisfied it works" totally and uttery meaningless.  
 
This is NOT to be taken as evidence that Rossi is running a scam.  It is only 
meant to demonstrate that there is indeed possibility to take investors' money 
while they wait for the first sales to begin.  I think that Rossi's 
(relatively) short, self-imposed timetables actually contraindicate a long-con. 
 That said, I'm not yet jumping into the commodities markets, buying nickel and 
shorting oil.
 
 



Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 12:55:20 -0500
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Dick Smith warns against investing in cold fusion

That worked out well. Good job Andrea! See:



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/dick-smith-warns-against-investment-in-cold-fusion-technology/story-e6frg8y6-1226247794568
 


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Dick Smith warns against investing in cold fusion

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> That worked out well. Good job Andrea! See:
>
>
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/dick-smith-warns-against-investment-in-cold-fusion-technology/story-e6frg8y6-122624779456
>
>
Six lines of text about a missed meeting is probably not going to pull back
Rossi very much.  The question is why Dick Smith said anything about it and
why he didn't reschedule the meeting.  Maybe someone should ask him what
else he knows or thinks he knows.

[Vo]:Dick Smith warns against investing in cold fusion

That worked out well. Good job Andrea! See:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/dick-smith-warns-against-investment-in-cold-fusion-technology/story-e6frg8y6-1226247794568

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling

I don't think it would be a problem at any University that has one - to
secure a standard gamma source for testing, for this reason. 

 

If there is any conceivable way to shield against gammas more efficiently -
then this is very valuable knowledge for such things as space exploration.
Plus it is new physics. and it does not absolutely have to be associated
with you-know-what, to be important.

 

Hagelstein does a few other things besides LENR, after all.

 

From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint 

 

But what is the likelihood that Peter would get permission to use a beam
line for that debunked/junk science called cold fusion?  Probability is very
low. and if the hot fusion group has any say, the probability is zero.

-mi

 

From: Jones Beene 

 

Yes, and let me add this. 

 

Peter Hagelstein has been the primary proponent of the "magic phonon"
hypothesis - the nearly complete adsorption of gamma rays by phonons - but
he is quick to admit there is no physical evidence for it.

 

What he does not say is that the evidence would be incredibly easy for him
to demonstrate, if it were there - and moreover - within walking distance
for him to find the proper place to do it. 

 

He can get surely get free time on a beam line at MIT or other source of
gamma radiation. Following which, the procedure to measure Pd-D to see if it
does absorb gammas (nearly perfectly) or not, is almost self-evident. 

 

Yes, It is that simple ! . yet it has not been done. Connect the dots. The
lack of evidence in this case, where it should be so simple to come by, is
itself evidence indicating that the magic-phonon hypothesis is bogus. 

 

Jones

 

From: Nigel Dyer 

 

I think we should be considering the possibility that there are no gammas in
the first place.   After the LENR event the nucleus will be in a highly
excited and state and will need to release its energy.   The conventional
route is via gamma (and/or an energetic particle) with the options
determined by energy and momentum balance.

One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is
some kind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within
the lattice.   The more quanta of energy there is associated with the mode,
the higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited state will
be coupled into the state  (because quanta of vibrational energy obey Bose
statistics).  This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state, much
in the manner of a laser.  This may be the route that the energy from the
excited Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal lattice
energy, via the intermediate resonant mode.  

The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the
1960's

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429

If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we can
extract the energy from the mode before it is thermalized, which would
dramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work,
such as generate electricity.

Nigel



Jones Beene wrote: 

 

Hi Mark 

 

Good finds - burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the
massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into
phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can
happen.

 

Jones

RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling

But what is the likelihood that Peter would get permission to use a beam
line for that debunked/junk science called cold fusion?  Probability is very
low. and if the hot fusion group has any say, the probability is zero.

-mi

 

From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:48 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling

 

Yes, and let me add this. 

 

Peter Hagelstein has been the primary proponent of the "magic phonon"
hypothesis - the nearly complete adsorption of gamma rays by phonons - but
he is quick to admit there is no physical evidence for it.

 

What he does not say is that the evidence would be incredibly easy for him
to demonstrate, if it were there - and moreover - within walking distance
for him to find the proper place to do it. 

 

He can get surely get free time on a beam line at MIT or other source of
gamma radiation. Following which, the procedure to measure Pd-D to see if it
does absorb gammas (nearly perfectly) or not, is almost self-evident. 

 

Yes, It is that simple ! . yet it has not been done. Connect the dots. The
lack of evidence in this case, where it should be so simple to come by, is
itself evidence indicating that the magic-phonon hypothesis is bogus. 

 

Jones

 

From: Nigel Dyer 

 

I think we should be considering the possibility that there are no gammas in
the first place.   After the LENR event the nucleus will be in a highly
excited and state and will need to release its energy.   The conventional
route is via gamma (and/or an energetic particle) with the options
determined by energy and momentum balance.

One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is
some kind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within
the lattice.   The more quanta of energy there is associated with the mode,
the higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited state will
be coupled into the state  (because quanta of vibrational energy obey Bose
statistics).  This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state, much
in the manner of a laser.  This may be the route that the energy from the
excited Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal lattice
energy, via the intermediate resonant mode.  

The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the
1960's

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429

If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we can
extract the energy from the mode before it is thermalized, which would
dramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work,
such as generate electricity.

Nigel



Jones Beene wrote: 

 

Hi Mark 

 

Good finds - burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the
massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into
phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can
happen.

 

Jones

RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling

Yes, and let me add this. 

 

Peter Hagelstein has been the primary proponent of the "magic phonon"
hypothesis - the nearly complete adsorption of gamma rays by phonons - but
he is quick to admit there is no physical evidence for it.

 

What he does not say is that the evidence would be incredibly easy for him
to demonstrate, if it were there - and moreover - within walking distance
for him to find the proper place to do it. 

 

He can get surely get free time on a beam line at MIT or other source of
gamma radiation. Following which, the procedure to measure Pd-D to see if it
does absorb gammas (nearly perfectly) or not, is almost self-evident. 

 

Yes, It is that simple ! . yet it has not been done. Connect the dots. The
lack of evidence in this case, where it should be so simple to come by, is
itself evidence indicating that the magic-phonon hypothesis is bogus. 

 

Jones

 

From: Nigel Dyer 

 

I think we should be considering the possibility that there are no gammas in
the first place.   After the LENR event the nucleus will be in a highly
excited and state and will need to release its energy.   The conventional
route is via gamma (and/or an energetic particle) with the options
determined by energy and momentum balance.

One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there is
some kind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains within
the lattice.   The more quanta of energy there is associated with the mode,
the higher the probability that energy from some coupled excited state will
be coupled into the state  (because quanta of vibrational energy obey Bose
statistics).  This will then pump the mode to a more energetic state, much
in the manner of a laser.  This may be the route that the energy from the
excited Nickel/Copper nucleus is able to be coupled to thermal lattice
energy, via the intermediate resonant mode.  

The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the
1960's

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429

If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we can
extract the energy from the mode before it is thermalized, which would
dramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do work,
such as generate electricity.

Nigel



Jones Beene wrote: 

 

Hi Mark 

 

Good finds - burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the
massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into
phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can
happen.

 

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Rossi selling Licenses?

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 5:55 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:

> Terry,
>
> I find it difficult to believe these guys would not be able to get Rossi
> on a Skype connection, especially as they had Dick Smith's $200k riding on
> the call.
>

Perhaps Rossi did not want to be found. Dick Smith's $200K was contingent
on an independent test.  Rossi does not want independent tests as he has
said many times.  Where are the tests promised by the Universities of
Bologna and Upsala?   Last year they were fervently promised to come
"soon". Now, they are "not needed".One can only venture a guess
about the reasons why, LOL.

Re: [Vo]:Cooper pairing of protons

An ensemble of coherent objects acts in unison based on discrete quantum
levels. When quantum particles (matter waves) are coherent, phase (A
description of the quantum properties that define each specific quantum
property associated with the ensemble) can only be applied based on
discrete quantum leveling.

Since the ensemble is locked together and must act as one unit, as the
entangled ensemble grows larger in number, it is increasing hard to
precisely meet conditions that will cause the ensemble to move to a new
quantum level.

*See: Viewpoint: Rydberg Atoms Jump in Bunches*

http://physics.aps.org/articles/v5/5

to get a feel for how quantum lockup causes coherent ensembles to act in
unison. This is helpful in understanding the many facets of how the Rossi
reaction works.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:58 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sun, 8 Jan 2012 02:35:02 -0500:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >Where N can be 1 to very many, N identical waves are said to be coherent.
> >These many waves have the same waveform; they are all in fact the same
> >wave. Since particles are matter waves, N particles that are identical and
> >indistinguishable are coherent.  These matter waves can be made identical
> >by any number of resonance interactions.
>
> I think that to be coherent they also need to be in phase, which is nearly
> impossible to achieve if they are in motion relative to one another.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling

2012-01-18 Thread Nigel Dyer

I think we should be considering the possibility that there are no 
gammas in the first place.   After the LENR event the nucleus will be in 
a highly excited and state and will need to release its energy.   The 
conventional route is via gamma (and/or an energetic particle) with the 
options determined by energy and momentum balance.


One possibility that keeps being suggested in this forum is that there 
is some kind of resonant optical vibrational mode within small domains 
within the lattice.   The more quanta of energy there is associated with 
the mode, the higher the probability that energy from some coupled 
excited state will be coupled into the state  (because quanta of 
vibartional energy obey Bose statistics).  This will then pump the mode 
to a more energetic state, much in the manner of a laser.  This may be 
the route that the energy from the excited Nickel/Copper nucleus is able 
to be coupled to thermal lattice energy, via the intermediate resonant 
mode.


The principles of such systems were looked at by Herbert Frohlich in the 
1960's


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0375960168902429

If this was the case, then what we ought to be doing is seeing if we can 
extract the energy from the mode before it is thermalised, which would 
dramatically increase the efficiency of the system if we want it to do 
work, such as generate electricity.


Nigel

On 18/01/2012 14:51, Jones Beene wrote:


Hi Mark

Good finds -- burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, 
the massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed 
into phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that 
this can happen.


Jones

RE: [Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling

Hi Mark 

 

Good finds - burning the midnight oil it seems - but for the record, the
massive preponderance of evidence is that gammas are not absorbed into
phonons. In fact there is not a single shred of evidence that this can
happen.

 

There is too much disproportion in wavelength. However UV and EUV are both
absorbed, absorbed strongly, and are "optical". 

 

There is plenty of good evidence that anomalous gain does manifest in EUV.
The area of so-called "soft" x-rays is a middle ground. These are not
considered optical and are little studied.

 

Jones

 

 

 

Gee, my serendipitous 'webbing' this eve has been quite interesting and
fruitful. here's one more. I promise I'll go to bed after this one!

 

Seeing the "Quantum" in Quantum Zero-Point Fluctuations

   http://physics.aps.org/articles/v5/8

 

PDF for actual article being described:

 
http://physics.aps.org/featured-article-pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.033602

 

This statement made me think about the problem of how the 'missing' gammas
are absorbed into the lattice as phonons:

 

"This approach yields relatively high-frequency mechanical resonances (with
gigahertz-scale frequencies), which makes cooling easier and yields
well-separated sidebands. The tight localization of modes also yields *very
strong optomechanical couplings*. 

 

And especially this..

"In addition, this setup allows a single mechanical resonance to be coupled
to many distinct optical resonances."

 

Would a gamma be considered 'optical'?

 

I do not know whether the conditions which were present in the experiment
above are present in LENR. so it may not be relevant.

 

G'nite,

-Mark

Re: [Vo]:Rossi selling Licenses?


Terry,

I find it difficult to believe these guys would not be able to get Rossi 
on a Skype connection, especially as they had Dick Smith's $200k riding 
on the call.


I have no association with this group.

AG


On 19/01/2012 12:15 AM, Terry Blanton wrote:

I feel as though I'm watching a late night B-grade movie.

Incredible.

T

Re: [Vo]:More home E-Cat data announced

The box may contain a primary coolant circulating pump that is speed 
controlled by the electronics as part of the regulation of the energy 
generation process.


AG


On 18/01/2012 11:48 PM, Energy Liberator wrote:

It's remarkable how quick things change with this. In a previous post on
JONP a few days ago, Rossi specified a size of 40x40x40, now it's
significantly smaller. It's great that he can now provide hot water too
as that increases the appeal even further allowing for complete
replacement of conventional gas / oil boilers in the home.

I'm not familiar with how UL certification works but wouldn't these
changes, especially such a size change, affect the certification
process? I'm assuming the Rossi is only getting certification for the
core reactor unit and everything else will be 'bolt on' afterwards.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi selling Licenses?

I feel as though I'm watching a late night B-grade movie.

Incredible.

T

Re: [Vo]:More home E-Cat data announced


  
  
It's remarkable how quick
  things change with this. In a previous post on JONP a few days
  ago, Rossi specified a size of 40x40x40, now it's significantly
  smaller. It's great that he can now provide hot water too as that
  increases the appeal even further allowing for complete
  replacement of conventional gas / oil boilers in the home.
  
I'm not familiar with how UL certification works but wouldn't
these changes, especially such a size change, affect the
certification process? I'm assuming the Rossi is only getting
certification for the core reactor unit and everything else will be
'bolt on' afterwards.

On 17/01/12 23:38, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563&cpage=14#comment-171562
  
  
   *
  
     Andrea Rossi
  
     January 17th, 2012 at 4:41 PM
  
    

  
  
     Dear Mark Szlazak:
  
     It will be cm 30 x 30 x 12 circa. Not able to make electricity
  yet.
  
     Able to make heat and sanitary water ( this is a new of today:
  
     resolved also this problem).
  
     Warm Regards,
  
     A.R.
  
  
  
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473&cpage=17#comment-171368
  
  
   *
  
     Andrea Rossi
  
     January 17th, 2012 at 10:04 AM
  
    

  
  
     Dear Christian Scholl:
  
     The principle is this, yes, but it will be simplyfied.
  
     Warm Regards,
  
     A.R.
  
  
   *
  
     Christian SCHOLL 
  
     January 16th, 2012 at 11:19 PM
  
    

  
  
     Dear Andrea Rossi,
  
  
     Domestic E-Cat will be delivered with differents heat
  exchanger:
  
     boiler for hot water, heat exchanger for hot air, full cupper
  
     electrode to replace steatite water heater ?
  
     Best regards,
  
  
     C.SCHOLL

Re: [Vo]:More home E-Cat data announced


Which make it even more interesting.

AG


On 18/01/2012 11:38 PM, Energy Liberator wrote:

That to me looks like it was from Jan 13 2009, not a few days ago.

On 18/01/12 13:05, Paul Calvo wrote:

*what do you make of this statement by Joe Zawodny / NASA a few days
ago?*
*
*
http://joe.zawodny.com/index.php/2009/01/13/capture-the-moment/

Re: [Vo]:More home E-Cat data announced


  
  
That to me looks like it
  was from Jan 13 2009, not a few days ago.

On 18/01/12 13:05, Paul Calvo wrote:
what do you make of this statement by Joe Zawodny /
NASA a few days ago?
  

  http://joe.zawodny.com/index.php/2009/01/13/capture-the-moment/ 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  ==
 

  On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 6:38 PM,
Aussie Guy E-Cat 
wrote:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563&cpage=14#comment-171562
  
   *
    Andrea Rossi
    January 17th, 2012 at 4:41 PM
    
  
  
    Dear Mark Szlazak:
    It will be cm 30 x 30 x 12 circa. Not able to make
  electricity yet.
    Able to make heat and sanitary water ( this is a new of
  today:
    resolved also this problem).
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
  
  
  http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473&cpage=17#comment-171368
  
   *
    Andrea Rossi
    January 17th, 2012 at 10:04 AM
    
  
  
    Dear Christian Scholl:
    The principle is this, yes, but it will be simplyfied.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
  
   *
    Christian SCHOLL 
    January 16th, 2012 at 11:19 PM
    
  
  
    Dear Andrea Rossi,
  
    Domestic E-Cat will be delivered with differents heat
  exchanger:
    boiler for hot water, heat exchanger for hot air, full
  cupper
    electrode to replace steatite water heater ?
    Best regards,
  
    C.SCHOLL

Re: [Vo]:More home E-Cat data announced

2012-01-18 Thread Paul Calvo

*what do you make of this statement by Joe Zawodny / NASA a few days ago?*
*
*
http://joe.zawodny.com/index.php/2009/01/13/capture-the-moment/



==

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:

> http://www.journal-of-nuclear-**physics.com/?p=563&cpage=14#**
> comment-171562
>
>  *
>   Andrea Rossi
>   January 17th, 2012 at 4:41 PM
>    cpage=14#comment-171562
> >
>
>
>   Dear Mark Szlazak:
>   It will be cm 30 x 30 x 12 circa. Not able to make electricity yet.
>   Able to make heat and sanitary water ( this is a new of today:
>   resolved also this problem).
>   Warm Regards,
>   A.R.
>
>
> http://www.journal-of-nuclear-**physics.com/?p=473&cpage=17#**
> comment-171368
>
>  *
>   Andrea Rossi
>   January 17th, 2012 at 10:04 AM
>    cpage=17#comment-171368
> >
>
>
>   Dear Christian Scholl:
>   The principle is this, yes, but it will be simplyfied.
>   Warm Regards,
>   A.R.
>
>  *
>   Christian SCHOLL 
> 
> >
>   January 16th, 2012 at 11:19 PM
>    cpage=17#comment-171038
> >
>
>
>   Dear Andrea Rossi,
>
>   Domestic E-Cat will be delivered with differents heat exchanger:
>   boiler for hot water, heat exchanger for hot air, full cupper
>   electrode to replace steatite water heater ?
>   Best regards,
>
>   C.SCHOLL
>
>
>

[Vo]:mechanical-to-optical coupling

Gee, my serendipitous 'webbing' this eve has been quite interesting and
fruitful. here's one more. 

I promise I'll go to bed after this one!

 

Seeing the "Quantum" in Quantum Zero-Point Fluctuations

   http://physics.aps.org/articles/v5/8

 

PDF for actual article being described:

 
http://physics.aps.org/featured-article-pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.033602

 

This statement made me think about the problem of how the 'missing' gammas
are absorbed into the lattice as phonons:

 

"This approach yields relatively high-frequency mechanical resonances (with
gigahertz-scale frequencies), which makes cooling easier and yields
well-separated sidebands. The tight localization of modes also yields *very
strong optomechanical couplings*. 

 

And especially this..

"In addition, this setup allows a single mechanical resonance to be coupled
to many distinct optical resonances."

 

Would a gamma be considered 'optical'?

 

I do not know whether the conditions which were present in the experiment
above are present in LENR. so it may not be relevant.

 

G'nite,

-Mark

[Vo]:The perfect liquid -- now even more perfect.

2012-01-18 Thread Mark Iverson

In my qualitative model, I see the vacuum of space being a polarizable
medium which is under tremendous pressure, and with very little viscosity.
This PhysOrg article says scientists have lowered the 'lower bound' for the
viscosity of the perfect fluid made up of the quark-gluon plasmas
encountered in high energy particle accelerator collisions.  Could that also
apply to the 'viscosity' of the vacuum??? Time will tell, but I'll bet it
does.

 

   http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-liquid-.html

 

"The physicists at Vienna UT found a way to include this anisotropy in their
equations - and surprisingly the limit for the viscosity can be broken in
this new model. "The viscosity depends on several other physical parameters,
but it can be lower than the number previously considered to be the absolute
lower bound", Dominik Steineder explains. The on-going
quark-gluon-experiments at CERN will provide opportunities for testing the
new theoretical predictions."

 

Abstract here:

   http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v108/i2/e021601

 

-Mark

[Vo]:Slow-motion pictures of atoms and molecules... getting closer!

World's best metronome enables slow-motion pictures of atoms and molecules

 
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-world-metronome-enables-slow-motion-pict
ures.html

 

Well, science is getting close to being able to do the definitive experiment
which I asked for earlier in the year.

They just have to overcome this problem:

"With this short wavelength light pulses, it is possible to take flash
photos of single molecules and atoms. However, the intense energy of each
light pulse destroys the sample."

 

And they are able to somewhat.

"Therefore, the slow-motion movie production of a molecular process requires
the repetition of the same process with a fresh sample and *each picture is
taken a bit later*."

 

Well, that's a good try, but not sure it's accurate enough to do what I
need. unfortunately.

 

*When* they can take a single hydrogen atom, suspend it in a vacuum (using a
magnetic field?), and then take their 'flash photos' of it with an
attosecond shutter speed, then we will know what an electron *really* is..
And they might also need to be able to cause a slight delay of the shutter,
a number of times, to cause it to match the phase of the electron
oscillation.

 

The abstract for the peer-reviewed article is here:

 

Optical flywheels with attosecond jitter

 
http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphoton.2011.326.ht
ml

Abstract

"It has been known for some time that the steady-state pulse propagating
inside a mode-locked laser is the optical equivalent of a mechanical
flywheel. By measuring the timing error spectrum between phase-locked
optical pulse trains emitted from two nearly identical 10 fs Ti:sapphire
lasers, we demonstrate a record low integrated timing error of less than 13
attoseconds, measured from d.c. to the Nyquist frequency of the pulse train,
which is 41 MHz. This corresponds to the lowest high-frequency phase noise
ever recorded of -203 dBc Hz-1 (assuming a 10 GHz carrier) for offset
frequencies greater than 1 MHz.  Such a highly uniform train of pulses will
enable the synchronization of pump-probe experiments that measure the
evolution dynamics of chemical and atomic processes evolving on femtosecond
and attosecond timescales. The ultralow timing jitter of such pulse trains
will also allow photonic analog-to-digital conversion of mid-infrared
waveforms with a resolution of 6 bits."

 

-Mark

RE: [Vo]:Cooper pairing of protons