Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Eric Walker]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Mary Yugo  wrote:

Yes it's speculation.  But taking the totality of the evidence and
> putting Defkalion and Ampenergo into the equation, it just isn't the
> way a true development of practical, powerful, LENR fusion reactors
> would go.  None of it makes the slightest sense.  Not the delays in
> getting university or any independent confirmation, not the failure to
> change to better measurement methods for demos, not the anonymous
> client, not the same client buying 12 more collections of 50 crummy
> looking sloppily assembled reactors, not inviting all the reporters
> and scientists for the Big Reveal of the megawatt plant and then
> keeping them behind a barrier so they could see nothing, not the
> constant barrage of unlikely developments and claims like a self
> destruct mechanism as the only IP protection, not the rest of the
> weird responses from a silly blog with an improbable name, not that
> most of the support comes from the likes of Sterling Allan, Paul Story
> and Craig Brown who wouldn't know a scientific principle or method if
> it bit them in the butt -- NONE of it makes the SLIGHTEST sense and
> after an entire year, nothing promising has developed.
>
> Let me know if it ever does.
>

I'm with you on all of these points, Mary.  It doesn't make any sense to
me, either.  Your summary reminds me of the final denouement in "The Usual
Suspects," where the detective starts looking at the items on the wall
after Verbal Kint has left his office and starts piecing together the
details.

Being the incurable optimist that I am, however, I reserve the right to be
pleasantly surprised.  There's an excellent book by Paul Feyerabend called
"Against Method."  After reading that book, I've gained a healthy
detachment from all kinds of pronouncements about how science is supposed
to proceed.  By Feyerabend's reading, Galileo was a pretty flamboyant
character as well.

Re: [Vo]:LENR G & Silver & Currency

[Axil Axil]

This is why Rossi uses nickel enriched in Ni62 and Ni64 because these
isotopes of nickel are the richest in excess neutrons within their nuclei.


On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 9:45 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 19 Jan 2012 02:43:26 -0500:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >By the way, fusion of protons with transuranic elements is very unlikely.
> >But if somehow a proton(s) got inside a super heavy nucleus, fission of
> the
> >new transmuted element would almost certainly happen instantaneously.
> >
> >
> >Such a fission reaction would be 20 time more energetic per incident
> >(~200MeV) compared to the  formation of copper from nickel (~10 MeV).
>
> If 2 or more protons are involved, it might also usually be a clean
> reaction
> that produces few if any radioisotopes. This is because the protons tend to
> compensate for the fact that heavy elements are neutron rich.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 9:52 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
>

> I wish I could add something substantial to this list, but I can't.  I
> haven't taken time to watch all of the videos or read the comments on Web
> sites, so I have to rely on others for the second detail.  I can't even
> conclude that Rossi has probably lied.  The final result is a lack of
> clarity about the situation.
>
> Like detectives in a cheap novel, we're looking for incriminating evidence
> in every little scrap.  In the process we have ended up with little more
> than speculation.

Yes it's speculation.  But taking the totality of the evidence and
putting Defkalion and Ampenergo into the equation, it just isn't the
way a true development of practical, powerful, LENR fusion reactors
would go.  None of it makes the slightest sense.  Not the delays in
getting university or any independent confirmation, not the failure to
change to better measurement methods for demos, not the anonymous
client, not the same client buying 12 more collections of 50 crummy
looking sloppily assembled reactors, not inviting all the reporters
and scientists for the Big Reveal of the megawatt plant and then
keeping them behind a barrier so they could see nothing, not the
constant barrage of unlikely developments and claims like a self
destruct mechanism as the only IP protection, not the rest of the
weird responses from a silly blog with an improbable name, not that
most of the support comes from the likes of Sterling Allan, Paul Story
and Craig Brown who wouldn't know a scientific principle or method if
it bit them in the butt -- NONE of it makes the SLIGHTEST sense and
after an entire year, nothing promising has developed.

Let me know if it ever does.

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Eric Walker]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

>
> That he will never do. As McKubre says, he wants chaos. He wants people to
> think he has nothing. That is his business strategy. It has been all along.
> He thrives on controversy. He stirs it up deliberately.
>

I wouldn't be surprised.  After attempting to follow the details of this
thread and pin down those that have a basis in fact, those that are hearsay
and those that are speculation on the part of commentators, I've given up.
 Here are my conclusions:

   - We don't know exactly what transpired with the container in the
   Bologna office, except that it doesn't look like it moved during the time
   between the filming of the two video clips.
   - There is reason to believe that Andrea Rossi has made some
   contradictory statements.
   - Rossi seems like a cagey fellow.

I wish I could add something substantial to this list, but I can't.  I
haven't taken time to watch all of the videos or read the comments on Web
sites, so I have to rely on others for the second detail.  I can't even
conclude that Rossi has probably lied.  The final result is a lack of
clarity about the situation.

Like detectives in a cheap novel, we're looking for incriminating evidence
in every little scrap.  In the process we have ended up with little more
than speculation.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Robert Leguillon]

National Instruments did not initiate a press release.  Check the original 
source at:
 
http://pesn.com/2011/11/10/9601953_National_Instruments_signs_to_do_E-Cat_controls/

Enquiries to National Instruments from the likes of Sterling Allen prompted 
their press release (upon Rossi's approval/request).  They had no intention of 
releasing their own press release until they were prompted to.

Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 23:45:58 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com

Chemical Engineer  wrote:

I respect your unwavering support for Rossi . . . 
If this is unwavering support what could I say to insult him?!? Your statement 
is absurd.
 
but I totally disagree that using a NI control system lends any great 
credibilty to him.  NI will sell system hardware and software to anyone that 
will pay, you can order online.
Yes. And when you pay online, does the head of PR and a VP development write to 
a leading business magazine informing them of your purchase? They must be busy.

- Jed

  

Re: [Vo]:Time Distortion Work

[Harvey Norris]

I have made a video of  the field scopings shown below where all three phases 
can be drawn from inductively by placing spiralled secondaries over 3 poles of 
the 666 machine's three phases. These 3 secondaries voltages are added to 
combine their voltages in series, which on a three phase system would vector 
add to zero. What is not considered here is the option employed by reversing 
the secondaries wiring, which is employed between two 180 degree field actions 
found by scopings and shown on first video 
http://youtu.be/uakJJKGf-mM
http://youtu.be/RBaOZTLgb3M
shows Unity of Timings via 666 Machine; Proving that it IS a Time Distortion
Machine.
Now certain tests are being arranged where a incandescent light bulb powered by 
the alternator by the conventional three phase ferromagnetic voltage step up, 
where all three phases have full wave rectifiers attached to 4 fold voltage  
secondaries. With the three positive and three negative output terminals made 
common on each side, the incandescent bulb is then tested as a dc load.  In 
counterpart then, the same voltages driving that three phase direct line 
process are first instead obtained inductively through the air from secondaries 
covering three of the field poles of each three phase process.(from the 666 
machine) BUT THEY ARE NOT ESTABLISHED AS CONNECTION TO THE THREE PHASE 4/1 STEP 
UP TRANSFORMER, BUT INSTEAD THE SIGNALS ARE ALL COMBINED IN SERIES TO A SINGLE 
4/1 STEP UP TRANSFORMER, AND THE BULB THEN TESTED AS AN AC OUTPUT. The first 
tests of this approach shows a marked decrease of seriesed secondary voltage, 
once the load of a 60 watt bulb was
 applied. Efforts at correction will take place in the next movement.
HDN  
Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances 
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/


--- On Wed, 1/4/12, Harvey Norris  wrote:

> From: Harvey Norris 
> Subject: [Vo]:Time Distortion Work
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Cc: tesl...@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 4, 2012, 11:55 PM
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/6638542345/
> Separation in time between magnetic fields above and below
> a stack of three 
> pancake spirals of the balanced 666 machine. The color
> codings of checkers show 
> the series routing of coil segments for each phase before
> folding into a circle 
> as a torsional field device, and then further given the
> appropriate equal 
> capacities to resonate under that condition of mutual
> inductance between 
> phasings. The simplest mathematical two dimensional magic
> square of nine 
> elements will contain three diagonal progressions in three
> dimensions;(obtained 
> by folding both sides of the 2d formation in 3d space to
> reveal the continuing 
> diagonal progression) likewise here three twisting
> diagonals circling around 
> each other in 3d space will enable the unique formation
> that will enable 
> balanced currents on all three phases: which will never
> develope in other 
> formations of coil placements, including the first solution
> of lateral 
> placements. Likewise the MIDDLE segment of each series
>  phase has a reversed polarity connection; whereby this
> practice enables the 
> central segment to REPEL the magnetic fields created by the
> outer segments for 
> 5/6ths of the cycle time period, forcing those magnetic
> fields to be issued 
> outwards from the assembly for use in efficient
> primary/secondary relationships. 
> Likewise the first 2d magic square as an analogy shows that
> the opposite 
> progressions of numbers towards the center are mirror
> images of each other; 
> showing point symmetry. The net result of these actions
> will show a  torsional 
> time "compression" between the opposing poles of the 666
> machine, having 6 polar 
> compressions at one sixth of a cycle at 60 degrees of
> compressional  action in 
> time
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/6638773467/
> Magic Square Technology applied for seriesed coil segments
> yielding balanced 
> currents to create torsional fields on three phase and time
> distortion effects 
> on perimeters. Three diagonal progressions of phases
> wrapping around each other 
> in 3d model produces torsional time effects on perimeters
> of poles.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/6638873427/
> Moving former top scope sensor left to top of left coil
> stack, showing near 180 
> phasing
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/6638910985/
> By reversing or revolving 180 degrees the new top sensor
> placed to the left of 
> the first measured stack; we see that the bottom magnetic
> field of the first 
> stack with phase 3 on top, is almost identical in time with
> the magnetic field 
> emitted by the stack with phase 1 on top. This then shows a
> near synchrony of 
> magnetic fields between stack 3 phase on bottom and stack 1
> phase on top, both 
> of which are in front view. Not only this but we also
> showed both polarities of 
> that observation by reversing the second sensor. Originally
> we showed t

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Jed Rothwell]

Chemical Engineer  wrote:

I respect your unwavering support for Rossi . . .


If this is unwavering support what could I say to insult him?!? Your
statement is absurd.



> but I totally disagree that using a NI control system lends any great
> credibilty to him.  NI will sell system hardware and software to anyone
> that will pay, you can order online.


Yes. And when you pay online, does the head of PR and a VP development
write to a leading business magazine informing them of your purchase? They
must be busy.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:LENR G & Silver & Currency

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 19 Jan 2012 02:43:26 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>By the way, fusion of protons with transuranic elements is very unlikely.
>But if somehow a proton(s) got inside a super heavy nucleus, fission of the
>new transmuted element would almost certainly happen instantaneously.
>
>
>Such a fission reaction would be 20 time more energetic per incident
>(~200MeV) compared to the  formation of copper from nickel (~10 MeV).

If 2 or more protons are involved, it might also usually be a clean reaction
that produces few if any radioisotopes. This is because the protons tend to
compensate for the fact that heavy elements are neutron rich.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Chemical Engineer]

Jed,

I respect your unwavering support for Rossi but I totally disagree that
using a NI control system lends any great credibilty to him.  NI will sell
system hardware and software to anyone that will pay, you can order online.
 I worked many years installing large industrial control systems for a
company 30 times larger than NI and we had many customers that we just
delivered harware and software to and they configured and programmed their
own systems.  If Rossi's system actually works it is good press for NI.  if
it doesn't I don't think anyone will blame Ni since they are a respectable
company with thousands of satisfied customers..  I programmed many control
systems where the customer retained the "deep knowledge" of what was going
on inside their reactor vessels and we just programmed & tuned the
pressure, temperature and flow control loops and interlocks, etc.  Each
e-cat only has 3 or 4 control loops that i see which is a simple system.
 You are making a big deal about nothing.

Rossi has obviously spent alot of time and somebody's money building that
1MW e-cat.  As far as i can tell he has been working on that one unit since
at least last september so at this rate he is going to fall way behind his
production targets...



On Thursday, January 19, 2012, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Chemical Engineer  wrote:
>>
>> As long as Rossi pays for NI's hardware and software they are probably
satisfied and don't mind the free advertising.
>
> This would be the worst advertising imaginable!!! What corporation wants
to be associated with Rossi? Do a Google search and you find hundreds of
attacks against him. Check his background and you find it is dripping in
scandal.
> This is NOT good PR for NI. Not, not, not.
> If I were them, I would not respond to Forbes, or I would say "we can't
comment on whether we are in a relationship with this company."
>
>>
>>   They do not require a "deep knowledge" of what he is doing or even if
his reactor works or not.
>
> If they do not have deep knowledge they are crazy to let themselves be
associated it.
>
> John Milstone  wrote:
>
>>
>> Maybe they just got tired of the hundreds, if not thousands of annoying
emails and phone calls from Rossi's fans, demanding a detailed accounting
of just how great Rossi's invention really is?
>
> In that case, all they have to do is issue a statement saying "no
comment." Or, as I said, "we never talk about customer relationships of
this nature." A company that is annoyed will deny everything and make no
more comments.
> The lady in charge of PR at the company issued a statement about Rossi.
So did a VP of development. Believe me, NI is aware of this at highest
levels. As Mary Yugo pointed out, they have millions of customers. The VP
does not know them all by name, and will not make statements about 999,900
of these customers.
>
>> It isn't at all unusual for a company to release a statement on an issue
that is generating more than typical interest.
>
> It is unusual for any company anywhere to make any statement pertaining
to cold fusion. Extremely unusual!
>
>>
>> NI made the most insignificant acknowledgement possible . . .
>
> Nonsense. I can think up any number of less significant acknowledgement,
starting with "no comment."
> - Jed
>

Re: [Vo]:KHCO3

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:57 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Tasty...

The really tasty part is that it was placed in the public domain with
the 90's report and subsequently cannot be patented.  Everyone is
phucked:  Mills, Rossi, DGT, Piantelli, Lanr.com

And as the Yul Brynner says as the King of Siam, "Et cetera, et
cetera, et cetera . . . "

So entertaining . . . so entertaining.

First come, first served.  And the world benefits.

Rossi knows this, I think.

T

T

[Vo]:KHCO3

[Jones Beene]

Anyone care to get back to the science of Ni-H thermal gain, instead of soap
opera?

KHCO3 or Potassium bicarbonate is used as a sodium-free substitute for
Baking soda in cooking, but don't let that the lack of toxicity fool you
into thinking that it cannot also be a good catalyst for Ni-H.

F. Fillaux, et al - in the paper mentioned recently - "Macroscopic quantum
entanglement and 'super-rigidity' of protons in the KHCO3 crystal from 30 to
300 K" raises tantalizing issues relative to the Thermacore experiment and
Ni-H, in general.

The two best parts about this molecule is that potassium carbonate, which
can be derived from the bicarbonate - is proven to be catalytic in dozens of
experiments. The bicarbonate it is cheap - but mostly an potential advantage
is because it is also a ready source of hydrogen. That feature could
simplify some kinds of devices where using pressurized hydrogen from a tank
is impractical. 

Decomposition of KHCO3 occurs between 100 °C and 120 °C into K2CO3
(potassium carbonate, the Mills catalyst) H2O and CO2. Adding electrical
stimulation, or extra potassium can split the water and provide hydrogen.

There is also an indication from a few long time BLP followers that the
transition state from CO to CO2 acts as a catalyst. More on that later.

Tasty...

Jones


<>

RE: [Vo]:Chan Method Update

[Peter B]

Hi Brad 
Thanks for the update 
Its interesting that DFK say they dont use an RFG 
The Rossi web site say they use it to sustain and stablise the reaction  plus 
an element @ approx 400 -600 c 
Chan (I think) doesnt use a element in the chamber , but uses  the rfg. He 
loads the Ni, fe,Ca,Cu with H  ( step process) 
and now Ortiz 
More than one way to skin a cat(sorry cat lovers , analogy only)
Pete




> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:39:04 -0800
> From: ecatbuil...@gmail.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: [Vo]:Chan Method Update
> 
> I got an email from the Chan replicator... He says he has achieved 6
> COP. He has sent me a few messages but does not return any questions
> to me.. but he apparently reads what I send him. I said I would post
> his update.
> 
> http://www.ecatplanet.net/showthread.php?100-Chan-Method-of-Ni-H-fusion
> 
> Obviously, take this and all Chan updates with a grain of salt, as no
> pictures, data, or other corroborating data has been produced.
> However, his method seems novel and reproducible.
> 
> I do like the idea of using a RFG of some sort to do the induction
> heating of the powders. An RFG that Chan reports using is on ebay for
> $200. But it is unclear to me and others I've talked with whether
> induction heating can heat and stimulate the powder contents of a
> copper tube.
> 
> As far as my own replication attempts, I've gotten my thermocouples
> logging more accurately and I've been adding Fe & Cu powders to my
> mix.. heating with a band heater and H2 under pressure without
> success. But have been spending most my time on software development
> for a certain trade show in SF next week.
> 
> - Brad
> 
  

Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> 2. Rossi has been independently replicated by Defkalion, and his devices
> have been carefully checked by many experts.

Except that no expert has been allowed to use a better method of
measuring enthalpy such as sparging steam or liquid flow calorimetry.
 And Defkalion's independent replication has never been seen and is
only a claim.  Claims are not facts nor evidence nor proof-- they're
just words.


> 3. He cannot have "faked" devices checked thousands of miles away from him
> at Defkalion.

Same comments about Defkalion who has never shown anything in public
or to anyone who can expertly comment on measuring something with
their own gear.

> 4. It is not physically possible for him to fake heat that burns someone.

It's possible to use a large prominent electrical heater powered by
the mains to heat anything you choose and maybe burn someone.

>  not possible for him to conduct 5 kW of electricity over a thin wire. No
> one can do that.

Depends on the wire.  You can run a lot more current in wires than
they are rated for, especially for short period.  But I'm not sure
anyone ever claimed that Rossi did this.  Hidden power sources are
another story.

>
> Yugo and others say that the experiment was never done except in Rossi's
> presence, and he might have used stage magic.

Stage magic is a sort of proxy attribution -- he may have done it by
some hidden means is what's meant.

>
> 1. It has been done repeatedly thousands of miles from him, with equipment
> he never touched. He denies the equipment exists!
>

We have not one shred of credible evidence that this is true.
Defkalion lied about giving equipment for tests to the Greek
authorities inasmuch as can be determined by a member of the Greek
Parliament from the city in question.


> 2. No such stage magic tricks exist, or can exist. It is physically
> impossible.
>

Because you claim that does not make it so.

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Jones Beene]

The guy scammed thousands of dollars from people just like you who wanted to
make a difference in the World's oil-lust and misguided energy policy. 

That is not just wrong - it is criminal. No one can condone that kind of
conduct. I do not know the details of the solar thing, but if it too was a
scam and took way money from real solar projects, then it too is
intolerable.

Perhaps Keith, who has been dogging Greg for years, it appears, will fill us
in on the solar thing. But if it too was a scam (and I simply do not know)
then it is just a matter of time before another one was built, using the
lure of the Rossi device as the come-on.

It seems Greg already had some pretty good prospects lined up, and that is
exactly why he was on good behavior. It is part of the act.

Jones



-Original Message-
From: Bastiaan Bergman 

I saw some good post from him. Can anyone place some pointers to
(possibly) bad stuff? I mean, under tha name and email address of
"Aussie Guy".


On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Rocha 
wrote:
> Well, I am also new to this list. Been here for about 1 year. AG always
was
> one of the well behaved and gave a lot of useful contribution and is even
> trying to test the damned e cat. . People accusing AG of anything today
seem
> to be really crazy and wrong.
>
>
> 2012/1/19 Andre Blum 
>>
>> I am pretty new to this list.
>>
>> Today, this one guy comes along and says Aussie Guy, who two weeks ago
was
>> almost certainly Dick Smith (who I didn't know) now is "certainly" Greg
>> Watson (who I didn't know). Apparently some of you had bad experiences
with
>> that guy in the past.
>>
>> So now this is accepted as a fact?
>>
>> I must say that AG made a more than useful contribution to the discussons
>> here. I liked him a lot! What if he isn't Greg Watson like he isn't Dick
>> Smith?
>>
>> Andre
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/19/2012 01:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>>
>> But he didn't seem to offer any scam. He didn't promote or try to sell
>> anything. In fact, he just seemed like a regular member who wanted to
test
>> an ecat.
>>
>> 2012/1/19 Jones Beene 
>>>
>>> Daniel,
>>>
>>> Greg is a con-man deluxe who has preyed on alternative energy supporters
>>> for
>>> many years. He is the Aussie version of Dennis Lee. (if you know that
>>> name).
>>>
>>> If "Aussie Guy" really is Greg Watson, then I am blown away at the
>>> arrogance
>>> of this a__hole to come back on this forum, in particular.
>>>
>>> He should have been charged with criminal fraud over the SMOT fiasco.
>>>
>>> Not that it didn't work, which it didn't, but that he kept deposits and
>>> never shipped products. And now it looks like SunCube could be an even
>>> bigger scam.
>>>
>>> Hey - Vo - let's welcome Greg back tomorrow with a listing of his many
>>> lies
>>> ... maybe his "Board" will give him the butt-kicking he deserves, if not
>>> turn him over for prosecution. Chill out Greg, you may be on ice for a
>>> while.
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Daniel Rocha
>>>
>>> Who is this Greg Watson? I found a bunch of guys with this name on
>>> google.
>>> ROFL
>>> This must be the Comedy Channel !
>>> I haven't had as many laughs in months.
>>> Say g'night to Greg, vorticians - we will likely not hear from this
>>> turkey
>>> again.
>>> Watson and Rossi - Birds of a feather, as they say ... they deserve each
>>> other.
>>> From: Eff Wivakeef
>>> Greg Watson aka Aussie Guy
>>> It is time for you to stop pulling your pudding!
>>> From: Aussie Guy E-Cat
>>> Steven,
>>>
>>> It is almost 4am here. Time for me to chill out and get some sleep.
>>>
>>> AG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Bastiaan Bergman]

I saw some good post from him. Can anyone place some pointers to
(possibly) bad stuff? I mean, under tha name and email address of
"Aussie Guy".




On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:
> Well, I am also new to this list. Been here for about 1 year. AG always was
> one of the well behaved and gave a lot of useful contribution and is even
> trying to test the damned e cat. . People accusing AG of anything today seem
> to be really crazy and wrong.
>
>
> 2012/1/19 Andre Blum 
>>
>> I am pretty new to this list.
>>
>> Today, this one guy comes along and says Aussie Guy, who two weeks ago was
>> almost certainly Dick Smith (who I didn't know) now is "certainly" Greg
>> Watson (who I didn't know). Apparently some of you had bad experiences with
>> that guy in the past.
>>
>> So now this is accepted as a fact?
>>
>> I must say that AG made a more than useful contribution to the discussons
>> here. I liked him a lot! What if he isn't Greg Watson like he isn't Dick
>> Smith?
>>
>> Andre
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/19/2012 01:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>>
>> But he didn't seem to offer any scam. He didn't promote or try to sell
>> anything. In fact, he just seemed like a regular member who wanted to test
>> an ecat.
>>
>> 2012/1/19 Jones Beene 
>>>
>>> Daniel,
>>>
>>> Greg is a con-man deluxe who has preyed on alternative energy supporters
>>> for
>>> many years. He is the Aussie version of Dennis Lee. (if you know that
>>> name).
>>>
>>> If "Aussie Guy" really is Greg Watson, then I am blown away at the
>>> arrogance
>>> of this a__hole to come back on this forum, in particular.
>>>
>>> He should have been charged with criminal fraud over the SMOT fiasco.
>>>
>>> Not that it didn't work, which it didn't, but that he kept deposits and
>>> never shipped products. And now it looks like SunCube could be an even
>>> bigger scam.
>>>
>>> Hey - Vo - let's welcome Greg back tomorrow with a listing of his many
>>> lies
>>> ... maybe his "Board" will give him the butt-kicking he deserves, if not
>>> turn him over for prosecution. Chill out Greg, you may be on ice for a
>>> while.
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Daniel Rocha
>>>
>>> Who is this Greg Watson? I found a bunch of guys with this name on
>>> google.
>>> ROFL
>>> This must be the Comedy Channel !
>>> I haven't had as many laughs in months.
>>> Say g'night to Greg, vorticians - we will likely not hear from this
>>> turkey
>>> again.
>>> Watson and Rossi - Birds of a feather, as they say ... they deserve each
>>> other.
>>> From: Eff Wivakeef
>>> Greg Watson aka Aussie Guy
>>> It is time for you to stop pulling your pudding!
>>> From: Aussie Guy E-Cat
>>> Steven,
>>>
>>> It is almost 4am here. Time for me to chill out and get some sleep.
>>>
>>> AG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
>  wrote:
>> Steven,
>>
>> Didn't sleep much last night. Went for a morning walk along the beach with
>> my dog and watched the sun come up. Just had a coffee with our chairman who
>> lives not that far from me. I'm taking 2 weeks leave to get my head
>> together. The company will not be moving forward with any of my LENR plans
>> as I have not be able to produce a working device. Good news is I still have
>> a job.
>>
>
> What's your doggie's name?

The silence if deafening.

T

Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

[Wolf Fischer]

Jed,

you have to admit that it just must be difficult for some people to 
believe in Rossi because of the way he behaves (and therefore also 
separating the behavior from his claimed inventions as this requires 
some abstract and very rational thinking, no harm intended). The fact 
that you have insider knowledge is really nice for you (I envy you for 
that and I would really like to know more about that :)). However, this 
is your information only, therefore it doesn't help the rest of us 
because (understandably) you cannot reveal who your sources are and what 
they say. Therefore, the rest of the "normal" people is left with Rossis 
claims, his behavior as well as the claims from NI, NASA, DGT and of 
course people like you etc. And as much as I appreciate statements from 
you, the fact that this is the Internet and there are other people with 
different "Insider" knowledge (like, e.g., Jones Beene) simply makes it 
difficult to trust anything and anyone. Therefore there is not a lot of 
things that "we" can hold onto (regarding Rossi its some more or less 
conclusive test during the last year as well as the NI press release; 
we, e.g., don't know about the independent tests by 3rd parties). And 
from all those claims and statements everyone constructs his very own 
image, necessarily. This is where the big confusion and noise comes from...


So have a good night (here it is 1:10 AM).

Wolf


Yamali Yamali mailto:yamaliyam...@yahoo.de>> 
(who also has the e-mail response parameter wrong) wrote:


Jed Rothwell wrote: "... Rossi has no credibility. ..."

How can you come this far and still believe his e-cats work and he
never faked anything? Haven't we dicussed endlessly how easy that
would be? And yet you seem to believe that a guy without any
credivility had his one honest moment in life just when it came to
what would probably be the greatest breakthroughs in the history
of science? I'm... ahh... puzzled.


Look, this is not complicated. Please, take it one step at a time:

1. Scientific credibility comes when you are independently checked or 
independently replicated. It is _never_ a function of your personal 
credibility. If it was, no one would believe Robert Stroud (the 
"birdman of Alcatraz") -- to take an extreme example -- because he was 
an habitual liar and a homicidal maniac. We believe Stroud because 
people have read his books, confirmed his observations, and used his 
techniques successfully.


2. Rossi has been independently replicated by Defkalion, and his 
devices have been carefully checked by many experts.


3. He cannot have "faked" devices checked thousands of miles away from 
him at Defkalion.


4. It is not physically possible for him to fake heat that burns 
someone. It is not possible for him to conduct 5 kW of electricity 
over a thin wire. No one can do that.


You must separate the person from the claim in your mind. The 
personality or behavior of the person has no bearing on whether the 
claim is true or false. You can only judge the claim by experiment. 
Rossi has been independently confirmed by experiment. That's all there 
is to it. Discussions of his personality may be interesting but they 
CANNOT AFFECT THE VALIDITY OF HIS CLAIM.


Yugo and others say that the experiment was never done except in 
Rossi's presence, and he might have used stage magic. That is wrong on 
two counts:


1. It has been done repeatedly thousands of miles from him, with 
equipment he never touched. He denies the equipment exists!


2. No such stage magic tricks exist, or can exist. It is physically 
impossible.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

[Jed Rothwell]

Yamali Yamali mailto:yamaliyam...@yahoo.de>> 
(who also has the e-mail response parameter wrong) wrote:


   Jed Rothwell wrote: "... Rossi has no credibility. ..."

   How can you come this far and still believe his e-cats work and he
   never faked anything? Haven't we dicussed endlessly how easy that
   would be? And yet you seem to believe that a guy without any
   credivility had his one honest moment in life just when it came to
   what would probably be the greatest breakthroughs in the history of
   science? I'm... ahh... puzzled.


Look, this is not complicated. Please, take it one step at a time:

1. Scientific credibility comes when you are independently checked or 
independently replicated. It is _never_ a function of your personal 
credibility. If it was, no one would believe Robert Stroud (the "birdman 
of Alcatraz") -- to take an extreme example -- because he was an 
habitual liar and a homicidal maniac. We believe Stroud because people 
have read his books, confirmed his observations, and used his techniques 
successfully.


2. Rossi has been independently replicated by Defkalion, and his devices 
have been carefully checked by many experts.


3. He cannot have "faked" devices checked thousands of miles away from 
him at Defkalion.


4. It is not physically possible for him to fake heat that burns 
someone. It is not possible for him to conduct 5 kW of electricity over 
a thin wire. No one can do that.


You must separate the person from the claim in your mind. The 
personality or behavior of the person has no bearing on whether the 
claim is true or false. You can only judge the claim by experiment. 
Rossi has been independently confirmed by experiment. That's all there 
is to it. Discussions of his personality may be interesting but they 
CANNOT AFFECT THE VALIDITY OF HIS CLAIM.


Yugo and others say that the experiment was never done except in Rossi's 
presence, and he might have used stage magic. That is wrong on two counts:


1. It has been done repeatedly thousands of miles from him, with 
equipment he never touched. He denies the equipment exists!


2. No such stage magic tricks exist, or can exist. It is physically 
impossible.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
 wrote:
> Steven,
>
> Didn't sleep much last night. Went for a morning walk along the beach with
> my dog and watched the sun come up. Just had a coffee with our chairman who
> lives not that far from me. I'm taking 2 weeks leave to get my head
> together. The company will not be moving forward with any of my LENR plans
> as I have not be able to produce a working device. Good news is I still have
> a job.

Why don't use the two weeks to go to Italy and to try to get Rossi to
show you something that works.  On the way back, stop by Defkalion's
office and see what they have.  Please take your camera and
thermocouples.

Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 1:21 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
 wrote:

> If I had a highly controversial "free energy" device that I wanted to
> market which didn't yet have adequate patent protection I would not in
> be too much of a hurry to draw undue attention to the legitimacy of
> who I am, or what I potentially represent, or of my invention. In
> order to keep my "anonymity" an occasional piece of disinformation
> strategically placed out on the Internet here and there would probably
> go a long way in keeping most of those potential competitors
> reasonably satisfied that I was nothing more than a scam artist. Not
> to bother.
>
> In the meantime, I'd focus on two objectives:
>
> 1. Double my efforts to secure adequate patent protection.

As many people in many places have noted, patent protection is
effective from the first day of application and disclosure.  The
patent issue is totally a red herring.   This was said by both a
patent attorney and a patent examiner at one time or another during
the saga.  And if Rossi wanted to keep a low profile he would market
privately like the Bloom Box which sold multiple working units to
Google, eBay and some other giant before they made even a preliminary
announcement.  Read the Wikipedia on this product.  The company would
not even have done that except that the customers wanted the
publicity.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Nope. Default still goes to you instead of Vortex. I do not know what the
> setting is.
>
> No big deal.

It's the "reply to" function.  I emailed him.

T

[Vo]:Chan Method Update

[ecat builder]

I got an email from the Chan replicator... He says he has achieved 6
COP. He has sent me a few messages but does not return any questions
to me.. but he apparently reads what I send him. I said I would post
his update.

http://www.ecatplanet.net/showthread.php?100-Chan-Method-of-Ni-H-fusion

Obviously, take this and all Chan updates with a grain of salt, as no
pictures, data, or other corroborating data has been produced.
However, his method seems novel and reproducible.

I do like the idea of using a RFG of some sort to do the induction
heating of the powders. An RFG that Chan reports using is on ebay for
$200. But it is unclear to me and others I've talked with whether
induction heating can heat and stimulate the powder contents of a
copper tube.

As far as my own replication attempts, I've gotten my thermocouples
logging more accurately and I've been adding Fe & Cu powders to my
mix.. heating with a band heater and H2 under pressure without
success. But have been spending most my time on software development
for a certain trade show in SF next week.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Jed Rothwell]

John Milstone  wrote:

Testing... 1, 2, 3.  Is this any better?
>
> (Sorry for the trouble!)
>

Nope. Default still goes to you instead of Vortex. I do not know what the
setting is.

No big deal.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Craig Haynie]

On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 08:53 +1030, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
> Steven,
> 
> Didn't sleep much last night. Went for a morning walk along the beach 
> with my dog and watched the sun come up. Just had a coffee with our 
> chairman who lives not that far from me. I'm taking 2 weeks leave to get 
> my head together. The company will not be moving forward with any of my 
> LENR plans as I have not be able to produce a working device. Good news 
> is I still have a job.
> 
> AG

What happened? I thought you had an arrangement with another party to
provide you with a working LENR device? How did that arrangement fall
through?

Craig

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Peter B]

Agreed

Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:19:04 -0400
From: andre_vor...@blums.nl
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg


  



  
  
I am pretty new to this list.



Today, this one guy comes along and says Aussie Guy, who two weeks
ago was almost certainly Dick Smith (who I didn't know) now is
"certainly" Greg Watson (who I didn't know). Apparently some of you
had bad experiences with that guy in the past. 



So now this is accepted as a fact?



I must say that AG made a more than useful contribution to the
discussons here. I liked him a lot! What if he isn't Greg Watson
like he isn't Dick Smith? 



Andre







On 01/19/2012 01:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
But he didn't seem to offer any scam. He didn't
  promote or try to sell anything. In fact, he just seemed like a
  regular member who wanted to test an ecat.

  

  2012/1/19 Jones Beene 

Daniel,

  

  Greg is a con-man deluxe who has preyed on alternative energy
  supporters for

  many years. He is the Aussie version of Dennis Lee. (if you
  know that name).

  

  If "Aussie Guy" really is Greg Watson, then I am blown away at
  the arrogance

  of this a__hole to come back on this forum, in particular.

  

  He should have been charged with criminal fraud over the SMOT
  fiasco.

  

  Not that it didn't work, which it didn't, but that he kept
  deposits and

  never shipped products. And now it looks like SunCube could be
  an even

  bigger scam.

  

  Hey - Vo - let's welcome Greg back tomorrow with a listing of
  his many lies

  ... maybe his "Board" will give him the butt-kicking he
  deserves, if not

  turn him over for prosecution. Chill out Greg, you may be on
  ice for a

  while.

  

  

  From: Daniel Rocha

  

Who is this Greg Watson? I found a bunch of guys with this
name on google.

  
  ROFL

This must be the Comedy Channel !

I haven't had as many laughs in months.

Say g'night to Greg, vorticians - we will likely not hear
from this turkey

again.

  
  Watson and Rossi - Birds of a feather, as they say ... they
  deserve each

  other.

From: Eff Wivakeef

Greg Watson aka Aussie Guy

It is time for you to stop pulling your pudding!

  
  
From: Aussie Guy E-Cat

  Steven,

  

  It is almost 4am here. Time for me to chill out and get
  some sleep.

  

  AG

  

  

  

  

  --

  Daniel Rocha - RJ

  danieldi...@gmail.com

  


  

  
  

  
  

  
  -- 

  Daniel Rocha - RJ
  danieldi...@gmail.com
  



  

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Peter B]

Daniel 
In Australia , we call it the "Tall  Poppy Syndrome" 
Where if they seem to be doing better than the average ocker  (Australian slang 
for a person)  rises a bit above his fellow man , there is a certain % of us , 
who like to pull him down 
Amongst mates , its quite common and probably usefull , stops you from getting 
helium in your head and floating away 
But from strangers , its normally meant as disrespect and a form of jealousy , 
if we can belittle him and trash him , we can feel better about ourselves 
Some call it childish , I call it "Mean Spirited" (though I have to confess , 
Ive been guilty of it once or twice myself) 
Peter B 

Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:26:44 -0200
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg
From: danieldi...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com

Well, I am also new to this list. Been here for about 1 year. AG always was one 
of the well behaved and gave a lot of useful contribution and is even trying to 
test the damned e cat. . People accusing AG of anything today seem to be really 
crazy and wrong. 


2012/1/19 Andre Blum 


  

  
  
I am pretty new to this list.



Today, this one guy comes along and says Aussie Guy, who two weeks
ago was almost certainly Dick Smith (who I didn't know) now is
"certainly" Greg Watson (who I didn't know). Apparently some of you
had bad experiences with that guy in the past. 



So now this is accepted as a fact?



I must say that AG made a more than useful contribution to the
discussons here. I liked him a lot! What if he isn't Greg Watson
like he isn't Dick Smith? 



Andre







On 01/19/2012 01:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
But he didn't seem to offer any scam. He didn't
  promote or try to sell anything. In fact, he just seemed like a
  regular member who wanted to test an ecat.

  

  2012/1/19 Jones Beene 

Daniel,

  

  Greg is a con-man deluxe who has preyed on alternative energy
  supporters for

  many years. He is the Aussie version of Dennis Lee. (if you
  know that name).

  

  If "Aussie Guy" really is Greg Watson, then I am blown away at
  the arrogance

  of this a__hole to come back on this forum, in particular.

  

  He should have been charged with criminal fraud over the SMOT
  fiasco.

  

  Not that it didn't work, which it didn't, but that he kept
  deposits and

  never shipped products. And now it looks like SunCube could be
  an even

  bigger scam.

  

  Hey - Vo - let's welcome Greg back tomorrow with a listing of
  his many lies

  ... maybe his "Board" will give him the butt-kicking he
  deserves, if not

  turn him over for prosecution. Chill out Greg, you may be on
  ice for a

  while.

  

  

  From: Daniel Rocha

  

Who is this Greg Watson? I found a bunch of guys with this
name on google.

  
  ROFL

This must be the Comedy Channel !

I haven't had as many laughs in months.

Say g'night to Greg, vorticians - we will likely not hear
from this turkey

again.

  
  Watson and Rossi - Birds of a feather, as they say ... they
  deserve each

  other.

From: Eff Wivakeef

Greg Watson aka Aussie Guy

It is time for you to stop pulling your pudding!

  
  
From: Aussie Guy E-Cat

  Steven,

  

  It is almost 4am here. Time for me to chill out and get
  some sleep.

  

  AG

  

  

  

  

  --

  Daniel Rocha - RJ

  danieldi...@gmail.com

  


  

  
  

  
  

  
  -- 

  Daniel Rocha - RJ
  danieldi...@gmail.com
  




  



-- 
Daniel Rocha - rjdanieldi...@gmail.com

  

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Peter B]

Vorl 
I agree
 AG  been far more a plus then a minus 
Its good to have the skeptics , keeps us from floating away with the wind 
But if everyone was like that , the suicide rate would be higher 
We need the balance of positive belivers to even out the mean hearted  
injection 
Its quite an easy thing to do "Bad mouth people and Pull them down " 
Its much harder to encourage people and build them up 
Peter B 

> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 13:35:52 -0500
> From: vorl@antichef.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg
> 
> What if AG is Greg Watson? Most of the posts to this list in
> regard to Rossi are dream-stuff anyway.
> 
> Why ask for reality at this point? AG's stuff is entertaining;
> that should be enough for anybody here. 
> 
> If AG is accused of being Watson, he may stop posting and make this
> a poorer place.
> 
  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
 wrote:
> Steven,
>
> Didn't sleep much last night. Went for a morning walk along the beach with
> my dog and watched the sun come up. Just had a coffee with our chairman who
> lives not that far from me. I'm taking 2 weeks leave to get my head
> together. The company will not be moving forward with any of my LENR plans
> as I have not be able to produce a working device. Good news is I still have
> a job.
>

What's your doggie's name?

T

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

Steven,

Didn't sleep much last night. Went for a morning walk along the beach 
with my dog and watched the sun come up. Just had a coffee with our 
chairman who lives not that far from me. I'm taking 2 weeks leave to get 
my head together. The company will not be moving forward with any of my 
LENR plans as I have not be able to produce a working device. Good news 
is I still have a job.


AG


On 20/01/2012 3:10 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote:


Chill out.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Wolf Fischer]

Jed,

Great statement! And (just to point this one out again): The cherry on 
the pie in the press release is the mentioning of CERN / LHC in the 
sentence prior to the one about Leonardo Corporation / Rossi.


Wolf


Chemical Engineer mailto:cheme...@gmail.com>> wrote:

As long as Rossi pays for NI's hardware and software they are
probably satisfied and don't mind the free advertising.


This would be the worst advertising imaginable!!! What corporation 
wants to be associated with Rossi? Do a Google search and you find 
hundreds of attacks against him. Check his background and you find it 
is dripping in scandal.


This is NOT good PR for NI. Not, not, _not_.

If I were them, I would not respond to Forbes, or I would say "we 
can't comment on whether we are in a relationship with this company."


  They do not require a "deep knowledge" of what he is doing or
even if his reactor works or not. 



If they do not have deep knowledge they are crazy to let themselves be 
associated it.



John Milstone > wrote:


Maybe they just got tired of the hundreds, if not thousands of
annoying emails and phone calls from Rossi's fans, demanding a
detailed accounting of just how great Rossi's invention really is?


In that case, all they have to do is issue a statement saying "no 
comment." Or, as I said, "we never talk about customer relationships 
of this nature." A company that is annoyed will deny everything and 
make no more comments.


The lady in charge of PR at the company issued a statement about 
Rossi. So did a VP of development. Believe me, NI is aware of this at 
highest levels. As Mary Yugo pointed out, they have millions of 
customers. The VP does not know them all by name, and will not make 
statements about 999,900 of these customers.



It isn't at all unusual for a company to release a statement on an
issue that is generating more than typical interest.


It is unusual for any company anywhere to make any statement 
pertaining to cold fusion. _Extremely_ unusual!


NI made the most insignificant acknowledgement possible . . .


Nonsense. I can think up any number of less 
significant acknowledgement, starting with "no comment."


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:List of Questions for Defkalion?

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Robert Leguillon
 wrote:
>
>
>
> What are some questions that we could be asking?
>
> Last time that I asked them uncomfortable questions, they at least 
> acknowledged that they were uncomfortable.  That said, can we come up with a 
> list of questions for them?  Just shoot some questions into this thread, and 
> I'll compile and submit some of them.

The last time I asked them about why the Parliament member for Xanthi
was told no application had been filed for Defkalion products with any
Greek regulatory agency, they banned me and redacted all but the first
inquiry by someone else.   They even redacted their own response to
the other person!

They will not answer questions about showing products or testing and
my best guess is this:  they were waiting for Rossi to provide a core
and depending on it.  When he did not do so, they became stuck and
hoping against hope someone or something rescues them.  They are
probably trying all sorts of catalysts and all sorts of reactions and
I would bet they have nothing at all that works.

Good luck asking though.  You'll likely get nothing for it except maybe a ban.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Joe Hughes]

Very good points Jed.
Man - this has been the most fascinating day on Vortex in quite some time.

On 01/19/2012 04:46 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

Chemical Engineer mailto:cheme...@gmail.com>> wrote:

As long as Rossi pays for NI's hardware and software they are
probably satisfied and don't mind the free advertising.


This would be the worst advertising imaginable!!! What corporation 
wants to be associated with Rossi? Do a Google search and you find 
hundreds of attacks against him. Check his background and you find it 
is dripping in scandal.


This is NOT good PR for NI. Not, not, _not_.

If I were them, I would not respond to Forbes, or I would say "we 
can't comment on whether we are in a relationship with this company."


  They do not require a "deep knowledge" of what he is doing or
even if his reactor works or not. 



If they do not have deep knowledge they are crazy to let themselves be 
associated it.



John Milstone > wrote:


Maybe they just got tired of the hundreds, if not thousands of
annoying emails and phone calls from Rossi's fans, demanding a
detailed accounting of just how great Rossi's invention really is?


In that case, all they have to do is issue a statement saying "no 
comment." Or, as I said, "we never talk about customer relationships 
of this nature." A company that is annoyed will deny everything and 
make no more comments.


The lady in charge of PR at the company issued a statement about 
Rossi. So did a VP of development. Believe me, NI is aware of this at 
highest levels. As Mary Yugo pointed out, they have millions of 
customers. The VP does not know them all by name, and will not make 
statements about 999,900 of these customers.



It isn't at all unusual for a company to release a statement on an
issue that is generating more than typical interest.


It is unusual for any company anywhere to make any statement 
pertaining to cold fusion. _Extremely_ unusual!


NI made the most insignificant acknowledgement possible . . .


Nonsense. I can think up any number of less 
significant acknowledgement, starting with "no comment."


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Jed Rothwell]

Chemical Engineer  wrote:

As long as Rossi pays for NI's hardware and software they are probably
> satisfied and don't mind the free advertising.


This would be the worst advertising imaginable!!! What corporation wants to
be associated with Rossi? Do a Google search and you find hundreds of
attacks against him. Check his background and you find it is dripping in
scandal.

This is NOT good PR for NI. Not, not, *not*.

If I were them, I would not respond to Forbes, or I would say "we can't
comment on whether we are in a relationship with this company."



>   They do not require a "deep knowledge" of what he is doing or even if
> his reactor works or not.


If they do not have deep knowledge they are crazy to let themselves be
associated it.


John Milstone  wrote:


> Maybe they just got tired of the hundreds, if not thousands of annoying
> emails and phone calls from Rossi's fans, demanding a detailed accounting
> of just how great Rossi's invention really is?
>

In that case, all they have to do is issue a statement saying "no comment."
Or, as I said, "we never talk about customer relationships of this nature."
A company that is annoyed will deny everything and make no more comments.

The lady in charge of PR at the company issued a statement about Rossi. So
did a VP of development. Believe me, NI is aware of this at highest levels.
As Mary Yugo pointed out, they have millions of customers. The VP does not
know them all by name, and will not make statements about 999,900 of these
customers.


It isn't at all unusual for a company to release a statement on an issue
> that is generating more than typical interest.
>

It is unusual for any company anywhere to make any statement pertaining to
cold fusion. *Extremely* unusual!



> NI made the most insignificant acknowledgement possible . . .
>

Nonsense. I can think up any number of less significant acknowledgement,
starting with "no comment."

- Jed

[Vo]:List of Questions for Defkalion?

[Robert Leguillon]

 
___
When Defkalion was recently asked about testing (again), they replied:

 
As already stated in this forum, there are several independent tests scheduled 
for the next period. All of them will be video-recorded/uploaded in YouTube or 
live-broad-casted through Internet. There you can notice what we have 
accomplished so far, measured and presented by third parties.

Before any such test there is going to be a 24hour pre-announcement through our 
site with a Press Release and the agreed protocol of the test. Results will be 
published by the independent testers into media they choose and through our 
site.

Thank you for your patient (sic)
__
 
What are some questions that we could be asking?
 
Last time that I asked them uncomfortable questions, they at least acknowledged 
that they were uncomfortable.  That said, can we come up with a list of 
questions for them?  Just shoot some questions into this thread, and I'll 
compile and submit some of them.
 
Cheers,
 
RL

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint]

The dog probably ate his thumb-drive…

Bad Einstein! Bad!

 

From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 1:25 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

 

From: Eff Wivakeef 

 

Ø  Please note that service of the Bankruptcy Notice and Judgment/Order 
addressed to Gregory Oran WATSON has not yet been effected.

 

OK, this is your attempt to collect on the legal judgment against Watson, 
correct?

 

What about the “Green and Gold” company- Did you try to collect against them, 
or does he operate the business out of the house where no one answers the door? 
Maybe they are used to dodging paper servers, who knows?

 

I guess his fabled “Board” that he often refers to in postings - includes the 
dog. 

 

Was it by any chance a Golden Retriever named “Einstein”?

 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Andre Blum]

much better.

Andre

On 01/19/2012 05:25 PM, John Milstone wrote:

Testing... 1, 2, 3.  Is this any better?

(Sorry for the trouble!)


*From:* OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
*To:* vortex-l 
*Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:03 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

...

>  ... I'm sending them to
> "vortex-l@eskimo.com ".  Is that not 
correct?


Hi John,

The same thing is happening to me, as with Jed. When I hit the reply
button, to reply to one of your vortex-l posts, I don't get the
vortex-l address. I get your personal email address. There must be a
setting somewhere that needs fixing at your end. Check your "reply to"
setting.

Anybody else got any suggestions?

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com 
www.zazzle.com/orionworks 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[John Milstone]

Testing... 1, 2, 3.  Is this any better?

(Sorry for the trouble!)



 From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
To: vortex-l  
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean
 
...

>  ... I'm sending them to
> "vortex-l@eskimo.com".  Is that not correct?

Hi John,

The same thing is happening to me, as with Jed. When I hit the reply
button, to reply to one of your vortex-l posts, I don't get the
vortex-l address. I get your personal email address. There must be a
setting somewhere that needs fixing at your end. Check your "reply to"
setting.

Anybody else got any suggestions?

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Jones Beene]

From: Eff Wivakeef 

 

*  Please note that service of the Bankruptcy Notice and Judgment/Order 
addressed to Gregory Oran WATSON has not yet been effected.

 

OK, this is your attempt to collect on the legal judgment against Watson, 
correct?

 

What about the “Green and Gold” company- Did you try to collect against them, 
or does he operate the business out of the house where no one answers the door? 
Maybe they are used to dodging paper servers, who knows?

 

I guess his fabled “Board” that he often refers to in postings - includes the 
dog. 

 

Was it by any chance a Golden Retriever named “Einstein”?

 

Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

Jed sez:

...

> AG is worried that this will hurt Rossi's credibility. I am not worried
> about that, because Rossi has no credibility. McKubre thinks he does things
> intentionally to hurt his own credibility. I wouldn't put it past him.

If I had a highly controversial "free energy" device that I wanted to
market which didn't yet have adequate patent protection I would not in
be too much of a hurry to draw undue attention to the legitimacy of
who I am, or what I potentially represent, or of my invention. In
order to keep my "anonymity" an occasional piece of disinformation
strategically placed out on the Internet here and there would probably
go a long way in keeping most of those potential competitors
reasonably satisfied that I was nothing more than a scam artist. Not
to bother.

In the meantime, I'd focus on two objectives:

1. Double my efforts to secure adequate patent protection.

2. As discretely as possible secure as many business contracts with a
select group of customers as possible. Most of these businesses would
probably prefer anonymity at this stage of the game as well since
going public would also alert unwanted competition.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

[Yamali Yamali]

Jed Rothwell wrote: "... Rossi has no credibility. ..."
How can you come this far and still believe his e-cats work and he never faked 
anything? Haven't we dicussed endlessly how easy that would be? And yet you 
seem to believe that a guy without any credivility had his one honest moment in 
life just when it came to what would probably be the greatest breakthroughs in 
the history of science? I'm... ahh... puzzled.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

...

>  ... I'm sending them to
> "vortex-l@eskimo.com".  Is that not correct?

Hi John,

The same thing is happening to me, as with Jed. When I hit the reply
button, to reply to one of your vortex-l posts, I don't get the
vortex-l address. I get your personal email address. There must be a
setting somewhere that needs fixing at your end. Check your "reply to"
setting.

Anybody else got any suggestions?

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

[Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped

[Jed Rothwell]

Mats Lewan is in contact with Rossi from time to time. He told me that
Rossi has been telling him all along that:

"The plant was never shipped but stayed in Bologna where Rossi supposedly
continued to work on it together with the undisclosed customer and NI."

That has been his impression all along. So Rossi has not been trying to
deceive Lewan about this. When Italo R. asked Rossi about the reactor, he
responded in a matter-of-fact way "Yes, it is the same [machine]."

He writes all kinds of things in his blog without thinking. He is sometimes
careless.

I think people here are making a mountain out of a molehill about this
issue.

AG is worried that this will hurt Rossi's credibility. I am not worried
about that, because Rossi has no credibility. McKubre thinks he does things
intentionally to hurt his own credibility. I wouldn't put it past him.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Eff Wivakeef]

SMOT the lot of you


Reecho writes...
Now to this press release of yours

http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au/Documents/GGEPressRelease20080326a.pdf

What happened to this $450,000.00 "order"...??
A bit of poetic license to call this an "order"...especially when it is 
actually a "Government Grant"
http://www.tenders.sa.gov.au/tenders/contract/download.do?id=4711§ion=contract
User #416366   391 posts
GreenandGoldEnergy
Forum Regular arri writes...
Maybe it went into the perpetual motion machine referred to here in stanford 
doc above
Suggest you check you dates. The SMOT was invented around 1995. The SunBall won 
the ABC New Inventors Peoples Choice Award in Oct 2005. The SunCube Mark 9.2 
design was locked down in Jan 2008. So unless I have a time machine, your claim 
about what happened to the money is not possible. The reality is GGE spend what 
we have received so far and more on the project.
Oh BTW here is the 113% OU verification trial a French physics professor and 
his team did on my SMOT design in 1999.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smotnrgt.htm
The SMOT plans are freely and openly available on the internet. Many 1,000's of 
people all around the world have made SMOTs. If you doubt the results, I 
suggest you build one.
I suggest you shove it up your fundament Greggy! 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Chemical Engineer]

As long as Rossi pays for NI's hardware and software they are probably
satisfied and don't mind the free advertising.   They do not require a
"deep knowledge" of what he is doing or even if his reactor works or not.

On Thursday, January 19, 2012, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint  wrote:
>>
>> Have to agree with Mary on this one…
>>
>>
>>
>> The only NI statement’s that I’ve seen were of a general nature.  NI has
a lot of customers in the high energy physics world, and other hi-tech
environments.
>
> A VP of NI wrote a letter to Forbes confirming the relationship. Yes, NI
has millions of customers as Mary Yogo said, but they do not write millions
of letters to Forbes. They would only do this for a customer they consider
important. If it was just some guy who bought Lab View they would not
confirm or deny it, even if he registered his name in the customer database.
> The people at NI are not fools. They know that Rossi is controversial.
They would not confirm the relationship without careful consideration and
deep knowledge of what he is doing.
> - Jed
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[John Milstone]

Jed,

According to the Internet "Way-Back" machine (archive.org), Rossi's company has 
been using the same address since sometime prior to May 14, 2010.  I thought 
Ampenergo was just set up last summer?

Thanks for the advise on my email replies.  I'm sending them to 
"vortex-l@eskimo.com".  Is that not correct?

John



 From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean
 

John Milstone  wrote:


I haven't seen or heard of any reports by credible witnesses to either of 
these.  Are they buried somewhere in the LENR library?
>

Nope. They are unpublished. They will not give me permission to publish, 
unfortunately.
 
 
In the case of Ampenergo, at least, I'm not overly impressed with a company 
that consists of nothing but a one-page, content-free web site . . .

They have impressive people on tap, such as McKubre's friend. No money as far 
as I know, but I don't know much about them.


and an rental office that just happens to be sharing the same rental office and 
same phone number as Rossi's company.
>

I believe it is the other way around. He is sharing their address. They were 
there first. Start-up companies are often no more than a mailing address.


(By the way, you should change your e-mail specs so that responses go to 
Vortex.)

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Eff Wivakeef]

Greg got paid $450,000 for the trial.
It has still not even been STARTED much less concluded.
Despite complaints to the SA Auditor General and various politicians, he 
continues to get clean away with it.
ASIC, Police Dept, Fair Trading, ACCC, all say it is not their department, try 
somewhere else.

I don't give up so easy!
We refer to your instructions in the above matter.
Please note that service of the Bankruptcy Notice and Judgment/Order 
addressed to Gregory Oran WATSON has not yet been effected.
On 17/10/11 at 6:05 pm our agent attended the given address of 16 Gembrook 
Road, ATHELSTONE SA 5076 where he found the property to be a single storey, 
detached, rendered dwelling, with a tiled roof, average kept grounds with an 
attached garage and driveway to the right hand side. 
Our agent advise that no person could be summoned to the door although our 
agent was convinced some person was home.
On 18/10/11 at 08.05 am our agent re-attended the given address and again 
could not obtain a response to the door.  However a dog was loose inside the 
house on both occasions, no vehicles were on the driveway but a Holden Station 
Wagon and a Mitsubishi Sedan were parked directly out in front of the property. 
 
Our agent left a message, requesting the subject to make contact.
Our agent will persist and a further report will be forthcoming.
Yours faithfully,
Chopper Read and Associates
Sensitive New Age DEbt Collectors and Tow Truck Drivers



 From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2012 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg
 

 
Ø  Therefore, I would like to ask Eff or Keff – what did happen
in this trial?
 
Ø  Did Green and Gold Energy pass or fail ? 
 
Well, I mean the solar
trial not the court trial – since I have not found an answer for that one.
One thing that does turn up is Keith’s (aka Eff) court judgment against
Watson for online stalking and defamation, which apparently has gone
uncollected.
 
http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/PJUDG?jgmtid=154368
 
I suppose this posting of
the verdict can stand as a warning to AG, should he decide to reappear with all
guns blazing: “once bitten, twice shy” …
 
If you really have a bona
fide technology, whether your name is Watson or Rossi, should you really stalk
an online poster? Would you not be better off to publish test results?
 
Heck, Rossi’s
reference to Krivit as a “snake” is bad enough to get him in a bit
of financial trouble – especially if he does become the billionaire that
he thinks he will be. He should be glad that Steve is a pretty mellow guy …
 
Jones

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

>From John Milstone

> How fortunate that you [Jed] appear to be the only person who isn't
> being bamboozled by Rossi.

Just out of curiosity, have you had any correspondence with Mr. Rossi
going back for for several years, as Mr. Rothwell presumably has had?
What do you base your conclusion on? Your own personal correspondence
with Rossi?

Rossi's behavior reminds me of the psychological predilections of a
well known UFO Investigator I have known for years. When it comes to
UFO investigation facts, I have little reason to doubt most of what
this investigator has to say - what his team has uncovered. (I suspect
that in the near future we will be hearing published reports about the
properties of certain metal samples that have been recovered from the
Roswell crash site, the fruits of several archeological digs. It's my
understanding that preliminary laboratory test performed on some of
these samples have revealed very unusual properties. But more on that
later.)

OTOH, when it comes to personal interactions with various people I
have learned to place a filter in front of our conversations.

I still count him as an old friend of mine. It is best to learn how to
work around each others "flaws", cuz we all have them.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Yamali Yamali]

All I can find is this:

"There are thousands of researchers and engineers in the world trying to 
solve alternative energy challenges and National Instruments provides 
tools to many of these scientists. One example is the Leonardo 
Corporation who intends to use NI tools for various applications. 
Specific details are still in development."


That says Rossi "intends" to eventually become a NI customer. So NI hasn't even 
confirmed a business relation - much less any knowledge of what Rossi is doing, 
let alone deep knowledge.




 Von: Jed Rothwell 
An: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Gesendet: 21:29 Donnerstag, 19.Januar 2012
Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive
 

Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint  wrote:


Have to agree with Mary on this one…
> 
>The only NI statement’s that I’ve seen were of a general nature.  NI has a lot 
>of customers in the high energy physics world, and other hi-tech 
>environments.   

A VP of NI wrote a letter to Forbes confirming the relationship. Yes, NI has 
millions of customers as Mary Yogo said, but they do not write millions of 
letters to Forbes. They would only do this for a customer they consider 
important. If it was just some guy who bought Lab View they would not confirm 
or deny it, even if he registered his name in the customer database.

The people at NI are not fools. They know that Rossi is controversial. They 
would not confirm the relationship without careful consideration and deep 
knowledge of what he is doing.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Jed Rothwell]

John Milstone  wrote:

I haven't seen or heard of any reports by credible witnesses to either of
> these.  Are they buried somewhere in the LENR library?
>

Nope. They are unpublished. They will not give me permission to publish,
unfortunately.



> In the case of Ampenergo, at least, I'm not overly impressed with a
> company that consists of nothing but a one-page, content-free web site . . .


They have impressive people on tap, such as McKubre's friend. No money as
far as I know, but I don't know much about them.


and an rental office that just happens to be sharing the same rental office
> and same phone number as Rossi's company.
>

I believe it is the other way around. He is sharing their address. They
were there first. Start-up companies are often no more than a mailing
address.


(By the way, you should change your e-mail specs so that responses go to
Vortex.)

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[John Milstone]

Maybe they just got tired of the hundreds, if not thousands of annoying emails 
and phone calls from Rossi's fans, demanding a detailed accounting of just how 
great Rossi's invention really is?

It isn't at all unusual for a company to release a statement on an issue that 
is generating more than typical interest.  NI made the most insignificant 
acknowledgement possible (other than "Never heard of the guy!).  And that was 
only after Rossi's fans and associates generated considerable hype about the 
relationship.



 From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive
 

Yes, NI has millions of customers as Mary Yogo said, but they do not write 
millions of letters to Forbes. They would only do this for a customer they 
consider important. If it was just some guy who bought Lab View they would not 
confirm or deny it, even if he registered his name in the customer database.



The people at NI are not fools. They know that Rossi is controversial. They 
would not confirm the relationship without careful consideration and deep 
knowledge of what he is doing.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Jones Beene]

*  Therefore, I would like to ask Eff or Keff - what did happen in this
trial?

 

*  Did Green and Gold Energy pass or fail ? 

 

Well, I mean the solar trial not the court trial - since I have not found an
answer for that one. One thing that does turn up is Keith's (aka Eff) court
judgment against Watson for online stalking and defamation, which apparently
has gone uncollected.

 

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/PJUDG?jgmtid=154368

 

I suppose this posting of the verdict can stand as a warning to AG, should
he decide to reappear with all guns blazing: "once bitten, twice shy" .

 

If you really have a bona fide technology, whether your name is Watson or
Rossi, should you really stalk an online poster? Would you not be better off
to publish test results?

 

Heck, Rossi's reference to Krivit as a "snake" is bad enough to get him in a
bit of financial trouble - especially if he does become the billionaire that
he thinks he will be. He should be glad that Steve is a pretty mellow guy .

 

Jones

 

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Eff Wivakeef]

Apparently the ground was contaminated!

Re: SunCube test array for the DKA Solar Centre
by Keefwivanef » Mon 14 Mar, 2011 11:43 am
Hey Greggy.what happened to the SA Government trial?
Green and Gold Energy receives a AU$450,000 order from the South Australia 
government 
to supply, build, commission and operate 3 grid connected SunCube™ Energy Farms.

Reference # PIRSA865
Name of Public AuthorityPrimary Industries and Resources SA
Title   100 Suncube Grid Trial
Good or Services AcquiredFacilitation to SME to jointly trial 
concentrating photovoltaic technology on the electricity grid.
Procurement Process Waive of competitive process
Total inc GST   $429,000
Execution Date  30 Aug, 2008
Starting Date   30 Aug, 2008
Completion Date 1 Jul, 2010
Freedom of Information Officer  Kim Potoczky
PhoneOFFICE: (08) 8463 3340 
MOBILE: 0401714882 
OFFICE: (08) 82260053
E-Mail kim.potoc...@sa.gov.au
Contract Documents  Contract - 100 Suncube Grid Trial.pdf


Hi C*P.

That trial is not public and I can't comment on it except to say the original 
sites soil was found to be contaminated and work could not proceed. We have 
found another site and work is moving forward.

As far as we are aware, the DKA Solar Centre's monitoring facilities and the 
ability to compare many systems against each other, historically and in real 
time, has no equal anywhere in the world. DKA Solar Centre staff have done a 
excellent job. We look forward to being able to show the world, in real time, 
what good Aussie solar technology can do.

Our pricing is now available on the GGE web site. As far as we know, this is 
the first time any CPV company has openly displayed CPV module pricing.

-
Best regards,
Greg Watson, Mng Dir,
Green and Gold Energy Pty Ltd
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Phone: +61 881 214 379
Mobile: +61 408 843 089
Skype: gowatson
Web: www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au 

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Eff Wivakeef]

How do I know it's Greggy

Let me count the ways!
(just for starters)
GGE History

* 2000 – 2004 Energy consultant to the power industry on advanced metering and 
demand side management.
* Developed various real metering and load remote load control systems.
* 2005 – Invented the SunBall and won the Australian Peoples Choice Invention 
of the Year award.
* Formed GGE with AU$250k of my own capital.
* Developed the SunBall Mark 1 and Mark 2.
* 2006 - Evolved the SunBall Mark 2 to the SunCube Mark 3.
* Raised a further AU$250k, thanks to long time friend Michael Sullivan to 
commercialize the SunCube.
* MICHAEL IANNELLA A VERY TALENTED METAL FABRICATION ENGINEER, joined the GGE 
development team to guide the SunCube development.
* Developed the SunCube Mark 4.
* 2007 - Developed the SunCube Mark 5 & 6.
* 2008 - Developed the SunCube Mark 7.5 to commercial ready stage.
* Worked with Emcore to achieve the world's first CPV receiver warranty. 


Re: [Vo]:E-Cat guy: Hire a local HVAC engineering company!
Aussie Guy E-Cat
Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:27:19 -0800
I have a trusted friend, a very experienced metal fabrication engineer, who has 
built BIG boilers, who is Italian but Aussie born. He will probably come along 
as he speaks the lingo and can arrange the 100 kW test with the local 
engineering firm, if their English is not that good. Additionally he is an 
extra pair of eyes, ears and hands. Plus I owe him a few favors.
AG

Need I go on?
Oh well...

Here we go with the old COAL FACE again!


Re: [Vo]:Focardi 1998 cell replication
Aussie Guy E-Cat
Tue, 08 Nov 2011 04:22:14 -0800
I do like the idea of the Ni tube and putting the heater element inside for all 
the reasons you listed. This could result in a very simple to make cell as 
thermal heat, H2 and vacuum only needs to be applied to the inside of the tube. 
Using a stainless tube with Ni electroplated and electropolished on the inside 
could result in a nice compact design with little external corrosion potential. 
Maybe fit a collar type finned heat around the outside of the 
tube(http://www.aavidthermalloy.com/products/standard/320105b0g sort 
of like this but longer) to make thermal transfer to passing fluid 
very efficient. Also make the heat sink streamlined and optimised for fluid. I 
like it. Maybe call it the Vortex cell?Why did they design the Piantelli cell 
the way they did? Maybe because they are not experienced engineers with grease 
under their fingernails and a lot of time at the "Coal Face" where necessity is 
the mother of invention??As for the other
 replicators, may I suggest they did not have Vortex to call upon?


Re: Shell says Solar is not economic21-Mar-09 04:11 am
Hi Dave,

Keith, you and others are very wrong. Full stop. I have refuted every claim 
Keith, you, others and his mates at Citron have made.

I never blocked you on the SunBall forum so stop telling porkies. That you lack 
the in depth technical understanding of CPV is accepted. It is not your field 
of expertise.

I have not asked you or anybody to take my word on the SunCube. Visit GGE and 
test them for yourself before you buy. As for proving anything, that I do to 
our customers. You want to become one?

BTW our claims are based on 3 years of field trials as we evolved the design 
through 9 stages. Working at the COAL FACE stuff mate, not a lot of theory, 
just real world results.

So sorry Dave but you, Keith and others backed the wrong horse. CPV will kick 
serious PV butt. You, Keith and other can't stop it happening no matter how you 
to try to spin it.

All the best,
Green and Gold Energy Pty., Ltd
Greg Watson, CEO
7 Provident Avenue, Glynde, 5070
South Australia, Australia, +61 8 8365 5844
http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au 



 From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2012 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg
 
Yes there is little doubt. Here is the funny part. Five years ago, Greg/AG
posted:
1) Initial 1,000 SunCube per month manual assembly line - in progress now
2) 5,000 SunCube per month manual assembly line - to be operational mid 2007
3) 50,000 SunCube per month robotic assembly line - to be operational end
2007
4) Many more of the 50,000 robotic lines - as required by the market
... hmmm... does that sound vaguely familiar? Who's zooming who?

From: Robert Leguillon 

I'm not in any way saying that I've found any conclusive evidence, only a
fairly high confidence after less than 1/2 hour of searching.

The "gotcha" from Keef was surprising, and I thought I'd have a look for
myself.  I think it's likely that AG and Watson are the same person.  It
certainly changes the way that I will read his comments, but I'm not sure
that it would be any reason to ask him to leave the forum.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Jed Rothwell]

Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint  wrote:

Have to agree with Mary on this one…
>
> ** **
>
> The only NI statement’s that I’ve seen were of a general nature.  NI has a
> lot of customers in the high energy physics world, and other hi-tech
> environments.
>

A VP of NI wrote a letter to Forbes confirming the relationship. Yes, NI
has millions of customers as Mary Yogo said, but they do not write millions
of letters to Forbes. They would only do this for a customer they consider
important. If it was just some guy who bought Lab View they would not
confirm or deny it, even if he registered his name in the customer database.

The people at NI are not fools. They know that Rossi is controversial. They
would not confirm the relationship without careful consideration and deep
knowledge of what he is doing.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

On 12-01-19 03:08 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:

Personally I stopped believing anything Rossi said after the "wet 
steam/dry steam" business blew up early last year.


That is unfair to Rossi. 


No, it's not.


He did not select the meter which is controversial. 


If you really understood why the steam could not have been dry, you'd 
also understand why it's not unfair to Rossi to blame him for claiming 
it was dry.  (And you'd also understand why your repeated appeals to 
authority on the subject are so unconvincing.)


We've been over this, Jed, and the most solid conclusion I'd draw is 
that I would not hire you for a position which required a clear 
understanding of physical chemistry.



He is using industry standard techniques to ensure dry steam. Every 
expert he has consulted with assures him the steam is dry.


I doubt that, unless "every" is a very small number and "expert" is 
defined very vaguely.




Every expert I have consulted with says the same thing.


Your unnamed experts who used unspecified methods to measure unknown 
quantities from which they used unstated reasoning in order to 
demonstrate that the wet steam was really dry carry no weight.

RE: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint]

Have to agree with Mary on this one.

 

The only NI statement's that I've seen were of a general nature.  NI has a
lot of customers in the high energy physics world, and other hi-tech
environments.   I've used they data acquisition modules a number of times
(love the LAN-based high resolution DAQ module), and can see why they've
been able to get their products into hi-tech areas.

 

I highly doubt that NI would be actively involved, on a daily basis, with
Rossi.  Perhaps they would send an Applications Engineer to his location to
advise them on proper use and configuration of their equipment, but that is
all.  It is even more unlikely that they would make any kind of endorsement.

 

-Mark 

 

From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 11:44 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

 

 

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Jed Rothwell 
wrote:


Who knows what to make of it. I am sure that NI is really working on it.
Their VP wrote to Forbes, after all. Or they were working on it . . . Maybe
Rossi threw them out.

 

It would be better to be more precise.  The VP of NI wrote a news release of
a general nature saying that they assist many companies in fitting control
systems to their products including Rossi's.  That makes Rossi a customer of
NI's and nothing more.  And there are millions of those.  Nothing about
working with NI or what the VP wrote lends the slightest credibility to
Rossi's claims.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[John Milstone]

I haven't seen or heard of any reports by credible witnesses to either of 
these.  Are they buried somewhere in the LENR library?

In the case of Ampenergo, at least, I'm not overly impressed with a company 
that consists of nothing but a one-page, content-free web site and an rental 
office that just happens to be sharing the same rental office and same phone 
number as Rossi's company.


- Original Message -
From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

It makes no difference which is more common. We can be sure that Rossi's claims 
are real because they have been independently tested by Ampenergo and others, 
and independently replicated by Defkalion. We do not have depend on his 
judgement or his honesty. If we did have to depend on those things, I would not 
believe a word of it.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Jones Beene]

In doing further online checking of forum posts - it looks like
"Keefwivanef" has been dogging Greg for some time. Does he have the facts,
or not?

 

Re: SunCube test array for the DKA Solar Centre

 

Post by Keefwivanef > 14 Mar, 2011 

 

Hey Greggy.what happened to the SA Government trial?

Green and Gold Energy receives a AU$450,000 order from the South Australia
government

to supply, build, commission and operate 3 grid connected SunCubeT Energy
Farms.

 

 

 

Therefore, I would like to ask Eff or Keff - what did happen in this trial?

 

Did Green and Gold Energy pass or fail ? 

 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[John Milstone]

Jed Rothwell said:
>It is also because he thrives on controversy. He loves confusing and 
>outwitting people,

Jed Rothwell also said:
>He never fools me. He does not seem to be trying to fool me.


How fortunate that you appear to be the only person who isn't being bamboozled 
by Rossi.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:
>
>  Personally I stopped believing anything Rossi said after the "wet
>> steam/dry steam" business blew up early last year.
>>
>
> That is unfair to Rossi. He did not select the meter which is
> controversial. He is using industry standard techniques to ensure dry
> steam. Every expert he has consulted with assures him the steam is dry.
> Every expert I have consulted with says the same thing.
>

How strange.  Everyone of Krivit's experts, and he named them by name, said
the opposite.


> You should blame him for things that are his fault. The "wet steam/dry
> steam" controversy has nothing to do with him. As far as I can tell, it is
> a figment of the skeptics' imaginations.


If you read all the detailed arguments that appeared here, you'd know it
was not figment.



> It makes no difference which is more common. We can be sure that Rossi's
> claims are real because they have been independently tested by Ampenergo


Ampenergo has said nothing and published nothing and shown nothing.



> and others, and independently replicated by Defkalion.
>

Defkalion seems to have lied grossly about having submitted anything to the
Greek authorities for certification.  All they have shown are a few photos
of lab gear of indeterminate nature.  They have never given a public demo.
Nobody who's seen a private one has ever written about it.

There is nothing from Rossi but questionable tests in which he was always
personally deeply involved.  There are no tests at all from Defkalion.
None of Defkalion and Rossi's claims are credible.  Yes, I'm repeating
myself.  In response to Jed's constant symphony of misinformation.

Re: [Vo]:New paper by Celani

[Chemical Engineer]

Mary,

Yeah, i got flamed for noticing that Rossi's mail order degree had a much
higher heat gain than all well educated scientists combined x 1000.  I
believe the scientists for now.  I hold out hope that they will be able to
find the right parameters to boost the reaction output.  If it only takes a
6:1 gain this seems doable if the potential according to W & L theory is at
least 4000 x chemical or better.

On Thursday, January 19, 2012, Mary Yugo  wrote:
> Interesting summary tables of LENR/CF research results.  Celani
highlights the fact that of all the claims, Rossi and Defkalion are the
largest by far and are the least confirmed.  Found the cite on ecatnews.com.
It's in English:
>
> http://www.22passi.it/downloads/WSEC2012%20Present.pdf
>
> Sorry if this is a duplicate -- I might have missed something due to the
large volume of posts on the list recently.
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Jed Rothwell]

Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:

Personally I stopped believing anything Rossi said after the "wet 
steam/dry steam" business blew up early last year.


That is unfair to Rossi. He did not select the meter which is 
controversial. He is using industry standard techniques to ensure dry 
steam. Every expert he has consulted with assures him the steam is dry. 
Every expert I have consulted with says the same thing.


You should blame him for things that are his fault. The "wet steam/dry 
steam" controversy has nothing to do with him. As far as I can tell, it 
is a figment of the skeptics' imaginations.



  There are no doubt zillions of cases of hotshot researchers who lied 
about their results but none the less went on to produce real 
breakthroughs, as Jed seems to be fond of asserting, but I'm afraid 
the opposite is quite a bit more common.  (Google "korea clone" for a 
perhaps more typical example.)


It makes no difference which is more common. We can be sure that Rossi's 
claims are real because they have been independently tested by Ampenergo 
and others, and independently replicated by Defkalion. We do not have 
depend on his judgement or his honesty. If we did have to depend on 
those things, I would not believe a word of it.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Roarty, Francis X]

I thought that the container was loaded onto a truck and driven away from the 
site shortly after the demonstration - Did I just imagine reading that? 
Fran

-Original Message-
From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:sa...@pobox.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 2:27 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean



On 12-01-19 02:09 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote:
> Some of us tried to find where he said that the thing was shipped. The 
> only thing that we found was his answer on the question "Is it gone?" 
> --> "Yes". The question leaves a little room for interpretation in my 
> opinion, but really - it's only very little room...

Hmmm -- I was just taking Jed's statement at face value; I confess I 
didn't go swimming in the strange river of Rossi's statements to try to 
confirm it.

Certainly there have been recent quotes from Rossi in which he 
strenuously denied claims that the customer had RETURNED it.  I suppose, 
though, if he never shipped it, then he's being totally truthful in 
asserting that it wasn't returned ... right?

Personally I stopped believing anything Rossi said after the "wet 
steam/dry steam" business blew up early last year.  There are no doubt 
zillions of cases of hotshot researchers who lied about their results 
but none the less went on to produce real breakthroughs, as Jed seems to 
be fond of asserting, but I'm afraid the opposite is quite a bit more 
common.  (Google "korea clone" for a perhaps more typical example.)


> Wolf
>
>>
>>
>> On 12-01-19 10:11 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>>> This discussion about Rossi's 1 MW reactor is silly. The reactor has 
>>> not shipped anywhere. He said it has not shipped, and it is obvious 
>>> from the photos it has not.
>>>
>>> Previously he said he did ship it. Now he says he did not. He is 
>>> contradicting himself. He often does that. I would not call it a "lie"
>>
>> He said it shipped.  That's a binary statement, either true or 
>> false.  If false, I, personally, would call it a "lie".
>>
>> In fact, for the most part, when a vendor says they shipped something 
>> and they really didn't, most folks would call that a "lie".
>>
>> Photos indicate Rossi didn't ship it.  That makes his statement 
>> false, thus, as I said, making it what most folks would call a 
>> "lie".  (That's what a lie IS, for goodness' sake!  It didn't ship, 
>> he knew perfectly well it didn't ship, and he said it did ship.  Right?)
>>
>> Now Rossi says it didn't ship, which most people would characterize 
>> as an "admission", though he didn't couch it quite that way.  (But of 
>> course he didn't say "I admit it didn't ship" -- if you're covering 
>> up an earlier lie, it's always better to make it sound like the 
>> current story was true all along, and anything else is just mistakes, 
>> misunderstandings, or stuff to be ignored and/or dismissed.)
>>
>> Just what would he have to do, Jed, for you to say he "lied" ?
>>
>>
>>> in the usual sense because he makes no effort to cover up or explain 
>>> the contradiction. He says "X" on Monday and "not X" on Tuesday as 
>>> if it makes no difference.
>>
>> Yup, he's what most folks would call a pathological liar.
>>
>> Yet you seem to be saying that because he lies habitually, nearly 
>> constantly, we should conclude that he really doesn't lie at all.
>>
>> I don't quite follow that.
>>
>>
>>> As if he never expected to be believed in the first instance, and he 
>>> did not mean it.
>>
>> This is a totally bizarre characterization of his behavior, IMHO.
>>
>>
>>>  Truth is malleable in his imagination.
>>
>> Maybe; I don't have a direct line into his imagination.
>>
>> From where I'm sitting he just looks like a pathological liar.
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

>
>
> I do not see any of that. I have been dealing with him for years, and I
> have seen him act this way countless times. He never fools me.
>

This seems like a good place to ask what those dealings were and exactly
what it is Rossi delivered to you which makes you believe that he did not,
as I suspect, wildly fool you many times over.  Other than words, of course
-- we know he delivered a lot of those.  Far as I know, since this
adventure began more than a year ago, Rossi has not been proven to have
delivered anything tangible to anyone, anywhere, ever.  Ditto Defkalion.


> He does not seem to be trying to fool me.
>

That remains to be determined, IMHO.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Jed Rothwell]

Stephen A. Lawrence  wrote:

Previously he said he did ship it. Now he says he did not. He is
>> contradicting himself. He often does that. I would not call it a "lie"
>>
>
> He said it shipped.  That's a binary statement, either true or false.  If
> false, I, personally, would call it a "lie".
>

In that case I suggest you learn something about psychology. I would define
a lie as something intended to deceive other people for some purpose. I
don't see how Rossi can accomplish any purpose in this instance.

Lying is quite different from something like confabulation, defined as: "To
fill in gaps in one's memory with fabrications that one believes to be
facts." (I am not saying that is what he is doing. There are many similar
behaviors.)

You seem to have a two-dimensional view of human behavior. Small children,
confused elderly people, and others like them often say things which are
not true, but are not lies either. Don't be so judgmental.



> Photos indicate Rossi didn't ship it.  That makes his statement false . . .


Yes, of course. But it does not prove he was lying in the conventional
sense. As I said, when someone tells you 3 or 4 outrageously conflicting
things in a short time, that's not lying. That would be mental illness.
Perhaps Rossi's behavior does not go that far, but it is abnormal. Nothing
to laugh at, or get upset about.


Just what would he have to do, Jed, for you to say he "lied" ?


He would have to benefit in some way. He would have to have some plausible
motivation to lie. He would have to cover up the previous statement -- or
at least, try to cover it up. He would have to exhibit consternation,
anger, fake anger, or some other indication that he is a aware of the truth.

I do not see any of that. I have been dealing with him for years, and I
have seen him act this way countless times. He never fools me. He does not
seem to be trying to fool me.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Jones Beene]

Yes there is little doubt. Here is the funny part. Five years ago, Greg/AG
posted:
1) Initial 1,000 SunCube per month manual assembly line - in progress now
2) 5,000 SunCube per month manual assembly line - to be operational mid 2007
3) 50,000 SunCube per month robotic assembly line - to be operational end
2007
4) Many more of the 50,000 robotic lines - as required by the market
... hmmm... does that sound vaguely familiar? Who's zooming who?

From: Robert Leguillon 

I'm not in any way saying that I've found any conclusive evidence, only a
fairly high confidence after less than 1/2 hour of searching.

The "gotcha" from Keef was surprising, and I thought I'd have a look for
myself.  I think it's likely that AG and Watson are the same person.  It
certainly changes the way that I will read his comments, but I'm not sure
that it would be any reason to ask him to leave the forum.


<>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Wolf Fischer]

Mary,

NI is not publishing _such_ a press release on any NI customer (again: 
Remember the mentioning of CERN / LHC in the same section as Leonardo 
Corporation). We had this topic here before.


Wolf




On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Jed Rothwell > wrote:



Who knows what to make of it. I am sure that NI is really working
on it. Their VP wrote to Forbes, after all. Or they were working
on it . . . Maybe Rossi threw them out.


It would be better to be more precise.  The VP of NI wrote a news 
release of a general nature saying that they assist many companies in 
fitting control systems to their products including Rossi's.  That 
makes Rossi a customer of NI's and nothing more.  And there are 
millions of those.  Nothing about working with NI or what the VP wrote 
lends the slightest credibility to Rossi's claims.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

>
> Who knows what to make of it. I am sure that NI is really working on it.
> Their VP wrote to Forbes, after all. Or they were working on it . . . Maybe
> Rossi threw them out.
>

It would be better to be more precise.  The VP of NI wrote a news release
of a general nature saying that they assist many companies in fitting
control systems to their products including Rossi's.  That makes Rossi a
customer of NI's and nothing more.  And there are millions of those.
Nothing about working with NI or what the VP wrote lends the slightest
credibility to Rossi's claims.

[Vo]:Rossi's behavior is more tragic than deceptive

[Jed Rothwell]

Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:

This is more than chaos. He has buried himself. How can anybody 
believe a word of what he says anymore?


As I have said dozens of times: You would have to be _crazy_ to believe 
a word he says about his business.


Just to give one example, he said there was a world-class corporation 
investing in his company. That turned out to be Ampenergo, which is a 
start-up with no money as far as I know.


You have to understand, Rossi likes to bury himself. He thrives on 
chaos. Rossi could have hundreds of millions of euros by now if he would 
only act reasonably. Instead, he gets himself in trouble, breaks 
contracts, tells people conflicting things, and stirs up trouble for no 
reason. He would rather make $1 by playing mind games and manipulating 
people than $100 by conventional, straightforward methods.


He is not the only person like this. There are sane people who cannot 
bring themselves to tell the truth. People such as author James Frey.




He did not ship the plant.

The plant is not in test by anybody.

There is no NI control system hooked to that plant.


Who knows what to make of it. I am sure that NI is really working on it. 
Their VP wrote to Forbes, after all. Or they were working on it . . . 
Maybe Rossi threw them out.



Is there really a customer who will paid $2 million and are OK to have 
the plant still not delivered or working or hooked to a test system?


Is there really a US factory?

Is there really a order for 12 more E-Cat plants?

Is there really another 1 MW customer?


Don't bother asking such questions. He will give you a dozen different 
conflicting answers. He will say whatever pops into his head. I cannot 
judge whether this is genuine confabulation in the medical sense, or 
just someone who enjoys telling tall tales and playing mind games.


The reason I say Rossi is not lying in the usual sense is that he makes 
no effort to cover up or explain away his previous statements. I think 
he feels the truth does not matter. One day he says he shipped the 
reactor; the next day he says no, he didn't. Actually it is not anyone's 
business whether he shipped or not, so he should say "that's 
confidential" instead of making stuff up.


His behavior is sometimes so bizarre it goes over the edge. Perhaps he 
is responding to stress. To be blunt, it seems a little crazy. I am no 
doctor, but it reminds of confabulation, which is something like: "Did I 
tell you I met with the Queen of England the other day" . . . [10 
minutes later] "Did I say the Queen of England? I meant a local drag 
queen, here in Atlanta" [10 more minutes] "The neighbor's dog is named 
Queenie, I see her every morning. That's what I meant." If it is 
confabulation or something similar, it is not something you should get 
upset about. You should not poke fun at it either, as Jones Beene has 
been doing. Whether it is mental illness or not, Rossi's behavior is 
tragic. More tragic than deceptive, in my opinion.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

On 12-01-19 02:09 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote:
Some of us tried to find where he said that the thing was shipped. The 
only thing that we found was his answer on the question "Is it gone?" 
--> "Yes". The question leaves a little room for interpretation in my 
opinion, but really - it's only very little room...


Hmmm -- I was just taking Jed's statement at face value; I confess I 
didn't go swimming in the strange river of Rossi's statements to try to 
confirm it.


Certainly there have been recent quotes from Rossi in which he 
strenuously denied claims that the customer had RETURNED it.  I suppose, 
though, if he never shipped it, then he's being totally truthful in 
asserting that it wasn't returned ... right?


Personally I stopped believing anything Rossi said after the "wet 
steam/dry steam" business blew up early last year.  There are no doubt 
zillions of cases of hotshot researchers who lied about their results 
but none the less went on to produce real breakthroughs, as Jed seems to 
be fond of asserting, but I'm afraid the opposite is quite a bit more 
common.  (Google "korea clone" for a perhaps more typical example.)




Wolf




On 12-01-19 10:11 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
This discussion about Rossi's 1 MW reactor is silly. The reactor has 
not shipped anywhere. He said it has not shipped, and it is obvious 
from the photos it has not.


Previously he said he did ship it. Now he says he did not. He is 
contradicting himself. He often does that. I would not call it a "lie"


He said it shipped.  That's a binary statement, either true or 
false.  If false, I, personally, would call it a "lie".


In fact, for the most part, when a vendor says they shipped something 
and they really didn't, most folks would call that a "lie".


Photos indicate Rossi didn't ship it.  That makes his statement 
false, thus, as I said, making it what most folks would call a 
"lie".  (That's what a lie IS, for goodness' sake!  It didn't ship, 
he knew perfectly well it didn't ship, and he said it did ship.  Right?)


Now Rossi says it didn't ship, which most people would characterize 
as an "admission", though he didn't couch it quite that way.  (But of 
course he didn't say "I admit it didn't ship" -- if you're covering 
up an earlier lie, it's always better to make it sound like the 
current story was true all along, and anything else is just mistakes, 
misunderstandings, or stuff to be ignored and/or dismissed.)


Just what would he have to do, Jed, for you to say he "lied" ?


in the usual sense because he makes no effort to cover up or explain 
the contradiction. He says "X" on Monday and "not X" on Tuesday as 
if it makes no difference.


Yup, he's what most folks would call a pathological liar.

Yet you seem to be saying that because he lies habitually, nearly 
constantly, we should conclude that he really doesn't lie at all.


I don't quite follow that.


As if he never expected to be believed in the first instance, and he 
did not mean it.


This is a totally bizarre characterization of his behavior, IMHO.



 Truth is malleable in his imagination.


Maybe; I don't have a direct line into his imagination.

From where I'm sitting he just looks like a pathological liar.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Wolf Fischer]

Some of us tried to find where he said that the thing was shipped. The 
only thing that we found was his answer on the question "Is it gone?" 
--> "Yes". The question leaves a little room for interpretation in my 
opinion, but really - it's only very little room...


Wolf




On 12-01-19 10:11 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
This discussion about Rossi's 1 MW reactor is silly. The reactor has 
not shipped anywhere. He said it has not shipped, and it is obvious 
from the photos it has not.


Previously he said he did ship it. Now he says he did not. He is 
contradicting himself. He often does that. I would not call it a "lie"


He said it shipped.  That's a binary statement, either true or false.  
If false, I, personally, would call it a "lie".


In fact, for the most part, when a vendor says they shipped something 
and they really didn't, most folks would call that a "lie".


Photos indicate Rossi didn't ship it.  That makes his statement false, 
thus, as I said, making it what most folks would call a "lie".  
(That's what a lie IS, for goodness' sake!  It didn't ship, he knew 
perfectly well it didn't ship, and he said it did ship.  Right?)


Now Rossi says it didn't ship, which most people would characterize as 
an "admission", though he didn't couch it quite that way.  (But of 
course he didn't say "I admit it didn't ship" -- if you're covering up 
an earlier lie, it's always better to make it sound like the current 
story was true all along, and anything else is just mistakes, 
misunderstandings, or stuff to be ignored and/or dismissed.)


Just what would he have to do, Jed, for you to say he "lied" ?


in the usual sense because he makes no effort to cover up or explain 
the contradiction. He says "X" on Monday and "not X" on Tuesday as if 
it makes no difference.


Yup, he's what most folks would call a pathological liar.

Yet you seem to be saying that because he lies habitually, nearly 
constantly, we should conclude that he really doesn't lie at all.


I don't quite follow that.


As if he never expected to be believed in the first instance, and he 
did not mean it.


This is a totally bizarre characterization of his behavior, IMHO.



 Truth is malleable in his imagination.


Maybe; I don't have a direct line into his imagination.

From where I'm sitting he just looks like a pathological liar.

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Robert Leguillon]

Look at AG's posts regarding solar:
 

Following best practice in the CSP (Concentrating Solar Power) industry, where 
every watt is important and the heat is lower than what can be generated in a 
conventional thermal plant's boiler, we will be building a 1 MW E-Cat plant 
based on this system. We are working with Rossi to make this happen and hope to 
sign a contract soon. 
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FMrXOWzV58Trn23wh8_zDNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink


Your comments are most welcome as we work to deliver the lowest cost Ac kWs we 
can. As I have said, when I can disclose information I will. Making this happen 
is critically important to everyone. AG

 
Then look at Greg Watson's relationship with SunCube: You now have two Aussies 
that are knowledgable in concentrating solar power.  Purely coincidence, right?
 
So, move onto the business paradigms.  Look at the Paradigm of Watson's Green 
and Gold Energy of Australia: He is adding on to another company's core product 
adding lenses to someone else's solar cells.  This is much the same as taking 
Rossi's core, and adding the electric power generation.  The way that they 
immediately make conclusive posts regarding the confidence in market production 
of products that are yet to be integrated is quite telling.
 
I then looked into the technical posts made by each, and the arguments and 
formats are VERY similar, in their calculation of LCOE, RCE, ROI, etc.  The way 
that they present technical arguments are very similar.
 
I'm not in any way saying that I've found any conclusive evidence, only a 
fairly high confidence after less than 1/2 hour of searching.
The "gotcha" from Keef was surprising, and I thought I'd have a look for 
myself.  I think it's likely that AG and Watson are the same person.  It 
certainly changes the way that I will read his comments, but I'm not sure that 
it would be any reason to ask him to leave the forum.

 



From: zeropo...@charter.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:02:07 -0800






No Mary, go read the barrage of postings to catch up… after all, that is what 
you expect us to do with your barrage of repetitious postings!  Frankly, your 
recent lack of postings has been a much welcome reprieve…
-mark
 

From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:46 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg
 
 

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Robert Leguillon 
 wrote:


After a bit of digging around the web, looking for commonality in the posts of 
the two personas, it certainly seems likely that AG is Greg Watson.  I would 
concede that everything I've found is circumstantial, and that a string titled, 
"Goodbye Greg" was probably premature.
Further, if they are indeed the same person, would that preclude acceptance on 
Vortex?  I understand that some Vortexians may deserve an apology and 
restitution, but I think that his posts have been valuable, albeit some have 
been too quick to jump to conclusions.


For those of us who came lately, can you summarize the evidence that this is 
the same person who apparently defrauded people by taking money for SMOT kits?  
 

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Eff Wivakeef]

Thank you!
I am seldom wrong, and I know all there is to know about Greggy!

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint]

No Mary, go read the barrage of postings to catch up. after all, that is
what you expect us to do with your barrage of repetitious postings!
Frankly, your recent lack of postings has been a much welcome reprieve.

-mark

 

From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:46 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

 

 

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Robert Leguillon
 wrote:

After a bit of digging around the web, looking for commonality in the posts
of the two personas, it certainly seems likely that AG is Greg Watson.  I
would concede that everything I've found is circumstantial, and that a
string titled, "Goodbye Greg" was probably premature.
Further, if they are indeed the same person, would that preclude acceptance
on Vortex?  I understand that some Vortexians may deserve an apology and
restitution, but I think that his posts have been valuable, albeit some have
been too quick to jump to conclusions.



For those of us who came lately, can you summarize the evidence that this is
the same person who apparently defrauded people by taking money for SMOT
kits?

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

On 12-01-19 10:11 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
This discussion about Rossi's 1 MW reactor is silly. The reactor has 
not shipped anywhere. He said it has not shipped, and it is obvious 
from the photos it has not.


Previously he said he did ship it. Now he says he did not. He is 
contradicting himself. He often does that. I would not call it a "lie"


He said it shipped.  That's a binary statement, either true or false.  
If false, I, personally, would call it a "lie".


In fact, for the most part, when a vendor says they shipped something 
and they really didn't, most folks would call that a "lie".


Photos indicate Rossi didn't ship it.  That makes his statement false, 
thus, as I said, making it what most folks would call a "lie".  (That's 
what a lie IS, for goodness' sake!  It didn't ship, he knew perfectly 
well it didn't ship, and he said it did ship.  Right?)


Now Rossi says it didn't ship, which most people would characterize as 
an "admission", though he didn't couch it quite that way.  (But of 
course he didn't say "I admit it didn't ship" -- if you're covering up 
an earlier lie, it's always better to make it sound like the current 
story was true all along, and anything else is just mistakes, 
misunderstandings, or stuff to be ignored and/or dismissed.)


Just what would he have to do, Jed, for you to say he "lied" ?


in the usual sense because he makes no effort to cover up or explain 
the contradiction. He says "X" on Monday and "not X" on Tuesday as if 
it makes no difference.


Yup, he's what most folks would call a pathological liar.

Yet you seem to be saying that because he lies habitually, nearly 
constantly, we should conclude that he really doesn't lie at all.


I don't quite follow that.


As if he never expected to be believed in the first instance, and he 
did not mean it.


This is a totally bizarre characterization of his behavior, IMHO.



 Truth is malleable in his imagination.


Maybe; I don't have a direct line into his imagination.

From where I'm sitting he just looks like a pathological liar.

[Vo]:New paper by Celani

[Mary Yugo]

Interesting summary tables of LENR/CF research results.  Celani highlights
the fact that of all the claims, Rossi and Defkalion are the largest by far
and are the least confirmed.  Found the cite on ecatnews.com.  It's in
English:

http://www.22passi.it/downloads/WSEC2012%20Present.pdf


Sorry if this is a duplicate -- I might have missed something due to the
large volume of posts on the list recently.

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Robert Leguillon <
robert.leguil...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>  After a bit of digging around the web, looking for commonality in
> the posts of the two personas, it certainly seems likely that AG is Greg
> Watson.  I would concede that everything I've found is circumstantial,
> and that a string titled, "Goodbye Greg" was probably premature.
> Further, if they are indeed the same person, would that preclude
> acceptance on Vortex?  I understand that some Vortexians may deserve an
> apology and restitution, but I think that his posts have been valuable,
> albeit some have been too quick to jump to conclusions.
>


For those of us who came lately, can you summarize the evidence that this
is the same person who apparently defrauded people by taking money for SMOT
kits?

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Eff Wivakeef]

You want PROOF that it is Greg Watson?
Give me a bit a little while and I will collate the evidence.
Meanwhile you can ask the admin to check his ISP
I guarantee you that it is Greg Watson from Adelaide.
Come on Aussie Guy, wake up and tell us all about it.

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Robert Leguillon]

After a bit of digging around the web, looking for commonality in the posts of 
the two personas, it certainly seems likely that AG is Greg Watson.  I would 
concede that everything I've found is circumstantial, and that a string titled, 
"Goodbye Greg" was probably premature.
Further, if they are indeed the same person, would that preclude acceptance on 
Vortex?  I understand that some Vortexians may deserve an apology and 
restitution, but I think that his posts have been valuable, albeit some have 
been too quick to jump to conclusions.
 

> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 13:35:52 -0500
> From: vorl@antichef.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg
> 
> What if AG is Greg Watson? Most of the posts to this list in
> regard to Rossi are dream-stuff anyway.
> 
> Why ask for reality at this point? AG's stuff is entertaining;
> that should be enough for anybody here. 
> 
> If AG is accused of being Watson, he may stop posting and make this
> a poorer place.
> 
  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

On 12-01-19 10:13 AM, Jones Beene wrote:

Here is the scenario that best fits all the facts:

(1) the container was shipped to a customer in the USA
(2) the container wasn't returned to Bologna, per se.
(3) the footage in the 12 Jan YT video was older footage
(4) the container did not work to the customer's specifications
(5) the container was shipped to National Instruments facility for upgrading
the controls (note: this is not exactly a "return" in the AR 'spin')
(6) Rossi was in attendance at NI to replace the gaskets and disable the
self-destruct mechanism


Stop right there!

Everybody who believes in the "self destruct mechanism" please raise 
your hands.


Remember, to be useful in preventing people from discovering Rossi's 
"secrets" it must not just damage the e-cat so it doesn't work anymore.  
Rather, it must totally annihilate it, so that no analysis of the 
remaining bits can reveal how it was structured or what the Secret 
Catalyst was.  Otherwise it's hardly better than a 
"warranty-void-if-seal-broken" sticker.


In short, it had better be a bomb if it's going to be effective.

Sure, that sounds really plausible -- lots of companies wire bombs into 
their devices to reinforce the message of the "No User Serviceable Parts 
Inside" sticker, right...?

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Vorl Bek]

What if AG is Greg Watson? Most of the posts to this list in
regard to Rossi are dream-stuff anyway.

Why ask for reality at this point? AG's stuff is entertaining;
that should be enough for anybody here. 

If AG is accused of being Watson, he may stop posting and make this
a poorer place.

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Susanna Gipp]

whoa  whoa whoa  (as yosemite sam) 
Hold on guys. You're both wrong !
 I know for sure who's AG! He's the Andrea Rossi's plumbers !

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Daniel Rocha]

Well, I am also new to this list. Been here for about 1 year. AG always was
one of the well behaved and gave a lot of useful contribution and is even
trying to test the damned e cat. . People accusing AG of anything today
seem to be really crazy and wrong.

2012/1/19 Andre Blum 

>  I am pretty new to this list.
>
> Today, this one guy comes along and says Aussie Guy, who two weeks ago was
> almost certainly Dick Smith (who I didn't know) now is "certainly" Greg
> Watson (who I didn't know). Apparently some of you had bad experiences with
> that guy in the past.
>
> So now this is accepted as a fact?
>
> I must say that AG made a more than useful contribution to the discussons
> here. I liked him a lot! What if he isn't Greg Watson like he isn't Dick
> Smith?
>
> Andre
>
>
>
>
> On 01/19/2012 01:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
> But he didn't seem to offer any scam. He didn't promote or try to sell
> anything. In fact, he just seemed like a regular member who wanted to test
> an ecat.
>
> 2012/1/19 Jones Beene 
>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> Greg is a con-man deluxe who has preyed on alternative energy supporters
>> for
>> many years. He is the Aussie version of Dennis Lee. (if you know that
>> name).
>>
>> If "Aussie Guy" really is Greg Watson, then I am blown away at the
>> arrogance
>> of this a__hole to come back on this forum, in particular.
>>
>> He should have been charged with criminal fraud over the SMOT fiasco.
>>
>> Not that it didn't work, which it didn't, but that he kept deposits and
>> never shipped products. And now it looks like SunCube could be an even
>> bigger scam.
>>
>> Hey - Vo - let's welcome Greg back tomorrow with a listing of his many
>> lies
>> ... maybe his "Board" will give him the butt-kicking he deserves, if not
>> turn him over for prosecution. Chill out Greg, you may be on ice for a
>> while.
>>
>>
>> From: Daniel Rocha
>>
>> Who is this Greg Watson? I found a bunch of guys with this name on google.
>>  ROFL
>> This must be the Comedy Channel !
>> I haven't had as many laughs in months.
>> Say g'night to Greg, vorticians - we will likely not hear from this turkey
>> again.
>>  Watson and Rossi - Birds of a feather, as they say ... they deserve each
>> other.
>> From: Eff Wivakeef
>> Greg Watson aka Aussie Guy
>> It is time for you to stop pulling your pudding!
>>  From: Aussie Guy E-Cat
>> Steven,
>>
>> It is almost 4am here. Time for me to chill out and get some sleep.
>>
>> AG
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
>  --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Andre Blum  wrote:

>
> I must say that AG made a more than useful contribution to the discussons
> here. I liked him a lot! What if he isn't Greg Watson like he isn't Dick
> Smith?
>

Is there some evidence about AG's being Greg Watson?

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Andre Blum]

I am pretty new to this list.

Today, this one guy comes along and says Aussie Guy, who two weeks ago 
was almost certainly Dick Smith (who I didn't know) now is "certainly" 
Greg Watson (who I didn't know). Apparently some of you had bad 
experiences with that guy in the past.


So now this is accepted as a fact?

I must say that AG made a more than useful contribution to the 
discussons here. I liked him a lot! What if he isn't Greg Watson like he 
isn't Dick Smith?


Andre



On 01/19/2012 01:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
But he didn't seem to offer any scam. He didn't promote or try to sell 
anything. In fact, he just seemed like a regular member who wanted to 
test an ecat.


2012/1/19 Jones Beene mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>>

Daniel,

Greg is a con-man deluxe who has preyed on alternative energy
supporters for
many years. He is the Aussie version of Dennis Lee. (if you know
that name).

If "Aussie Guy" really is Greg Watson, then I am blown away at the
arrogance
of this a__hole to come back on this forum, in particular.

He should have been charged with criminal fraud over the SMOT fiasco.

Not that it didn't work, which it didn't, but that he kept
deposits and
never shipped products. And now it looks like SunCube could be an even
bigger scam.

Hey - Vo - let's welcome Greg back tomorrow with a listing of his
many lies
... maybe his "Board" will give him the butt-kicking he deserves,
if not
turn him over for prosecution. Chill out Greg, you may be on ice for a
while.


From: Daniel Rocha

Who is this Greg Watson? I found a bunch of guys with this name on
google.
ROFL
This must be the Comedy Channel !
I haven't had as many laughs in months.
Say g'night to Greg, vorticians - we will likely not hear from
this turkey
again.
Watson and Rossi - Birds of a feather, as they say ... they
deserve each
other.
From: Eff Wivakeef
Greg Watson aka Aussie Guy
It is time for you to stop pulling your pudding!
From: Aussie Guy E-Cat
Steven,

It is almost 4am here. Time for me to chill out and get some sleep.

AG




--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com 




--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com 

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Hey Eff - If you put a tail on him, be sure to hire the inimitable Royal
> Thai Police detective Sonchai Jitpleecheep. He knows what to do with
> "snakes" for instance...

Yes, GOW deserves the same fate as Frank Charles in the Godfather of Kathmandu.

T

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[John Milstone]

Is "for all we know" the new standard for judging evidence?  



 From: Energy Liberator 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
 

 For all we know NI have a couple of fat cats sitting in their workshop in the 
US to play with.

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Joe Hughes]

For all we know NI have a couple of fat cats sitting in their workshop 
in the US to play with.



I'd find this a little more plausible if Rossi's "US office" was in 
Austin, TX since NI does not have an office in Florida - or maybe even 
more if he would have mentioned Debrecen, Hungary where it appears NI's 
R&D department is located and most of it's manufacturing is done.

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Craig Haynie]

On Thu, 2012-01-19 at 15:26 -0200, Daniel Rocha wrote:
> But he didn't seem to offer any scam. He didn't promote or try to sell
> anything. In fact, he just seemed like a regular member who wanted to
> test an ecat.

With the SMOT scam, Greg Watson came here and simply started to make
claims that he was able to get a ball moving indefinitely around a track
using magnets. He never offered to sell anything until people started
asking to buy demonstration units from him. In fact, the SMOT was never
originally going to be sold as a kit that would work, only as a kit that
people could use to test his claims. It was Greg who changed the terms
and started saying that he was going make the kits work for those who
had already paid. But what he was doing then, was just stalling so that
more orders come come in. All around he made about $4,000 US on the
scam, as I recall.

Craig

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Jones Beene]

Well, well, well

Instead of Greggy-boy getting some sleep at 4 am in Oz, the guy is probably
packing up his suitcase for a backdoor run to ... well, Phucket is a good
destination for Phuckers, no 

http://www.phuket.com/island/10mustsee.htm

Hey Eff - If you put a tail on him, be sure to hire the inimitable Royal
Thai Police detective Sonchai Jitpleecheep. He knows what to do with
"snakes" for instance...


From: Eff Wivakeef 

I had to take the bastard to the Supreme Court of NSW to clear my name after
he called ME a criminal, liar, immoral etc.

The PHUCKER has still not paid up and I am out of pocket by over 50K.
Let's see how he enjoys being made bankrupt.

No more first class flights for you Greggy!

<>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:

>
> It is time for Rossi to stop making wish full statements and to start
> delivering independent "black box" tests. I can arrange to make that happen
> as I'm sure many others can do.
>

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  It was time for that immediately after
Levi's February experiment which supposedly produced a 130 kW surge and
continuous power in the tens of kW range back last February using the
temperature change in liquid coolant for measuring enthalpy.  I am willing
to make a reasonable bet that such tests will not happen.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:13 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

>
> There is no doubt he is accomplished engineer. He has invented many
> important products.
>

Just out curiosity, which are those?  May we have a list?  Does that
include waste to fuel conversion?  How about heat to electricity
conversion?  Those didn't seem to work out very well.

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Eff Wivakeef]

Re: First class taster
The Thai F Check-in and Lounge at Bkk is amazing. This is really First Class in 
an Old World sense. The 3 Ss, Service, Service, Service in Spades.
>
>Just after entering the airport, you see the Thai F Check-in portals which 
>after that reality departs. The minute I walked through the portal I was asked 
>for my passport and flight data. Another person then took my wheelie. I was 
>then escorted to a waiting area and served a drink and / or snack. I was also 
>asked what type of massage I desired and at what time. By the time that 
>discussion was completed, my boarding pass and passport was returned. After 
>finishing my welcome drink and snack, I was escorted to a totally 100% F 
>dedicated security line and immigrations, escorted by my aide through the 
>whole process. When that process was completed, I was driven, yes I did say 
>driven, to the Thai F Lounge and then shown to my personal 5 x 5 mtr very 
>nicely furnished apartment. Shortly thereafter by wheelie arrived.
>
>Then a small lunch while I waited to be called for my massage.
>
>The Thai F Lounge is about the same size as the Mel QF F Lounge but I feel 
>elevated about 2 levels in service and style. I could get very addicted to 
>this airline.
>
>Oh BTW, the wireless internet is VERY quick.
>
>After my 1 hour full body Thai massage, lunch will be the Mussaman Curry with 
>Beef or Chicken. Think I'll go with the chicken. They claim this dish is the 
>top ranking of the world's 50 most delicious foods according toTravel Asia 
>with CNNGo.com - The Insider's Guide to Traveling in Asia
>
>More laterGowatson

(Gregory Oran Watson) asshole First class!

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Mary Yugo]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:

>
> All we need is ONE photograph of another E-Cat on a production. Rossi
> claims to be making another 13. Why not post a photo of that line? Will
> that give away trade secrets? Instead what we get is a video of the 28 Oct
> BBB. Is that all Rossi has to show?
>

I am sorry for your possibly wasted time and money however it's been true
since last January that Rossi could work out a way to get an official test
from his the University of Bologna without giving away trade secrets.  Why
not do *that* now?  Even a photo of another BBB being assembled wouldn't
tell you that it works.  The same objections have always applied to
Defkalion.   I never bought the trade secret argument because of all the
dog and pony shows.   If you don't want to give away any information at ll
to the competition, you don't invite major news media and reasonably well
known scientists to your demonstrations.

A good example of how a proper product is brought out is the Bloom Box.
It was installed at several prestigious companies who had bought,
thoroughly tested, and used prototypes before any public news releases were
made.  Then, the device was shown working and the pleased customers were
interviewed.  Before the big reveal, *nothing* much was said or shown to
the press and there were no big claims.   Here's a cite from the Wikipedia
entry:

"The CEO gave a media interview (to *Fortune
Magazine
*) for the first time in 2010, eight years after founding the company,
because of pressure from his
customers.[11]A
few days later he allowed a journalist (Lesley
Stahl  of the CBS
Newsprogram
*60 Minutes *) to see the factory
for the first 
time.[19]On
February 24, 2010, the company held its first press conference.
[15]
"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_Energy_Server

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Eff Wivakeef]

I had to take the bastard to the Supreme Court of NSW to clear my name after he 
called ME a criminal, liar, immoral etc.
The PHUCKER has still not paid up and I am out of pocket by over 50K.
Let's see how he enjoys being made bankrupt.
No more first class flights for you Greggy!
First class taster
Registered Users have the option of removing this
and all other advertisements.  More 

Doing a F taster run.
>
>Flying out Adl/Syd DJ Y, Syd/Bkk QF 744/F, Bkk/Hkg Thai 744/F, Hkg/Bkk CX 
>744/F, Bkk/Hkg/Sin Emirates 388/F and United 744/F, Sin/Syd QF 388/F and back 
>to Adl on QF Y
>
>So will get to experience F on:
>
>QF 744
>Thai 744
>CX 744
>United 744
>
>Emirates 388
>QF 388
>
>Should be interesting. Will do a TR with photos.
Gowatson

>

RE: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Jones Beene]

I think that he actually believed that SMOT worked at first. He took a long
time to set up that scam, and the same could be true of the latest one.

 

No one that I know gave him a second glance with the solar device, due to
the prior fiasco - so he found a different audience to prey on for that one.

 

He was probably angling to get any kind of verbal agreement with AR that did
not involve his money - after which he would resells sub-license - who knows
?

 

Thanks to Eff - the guy is toast now.

 

(assuming Eff is correct, of course) did anyone try to cross-check ip
addresses?

 

From: Daniel 

 

But he didn't seem to offer any scam. He didn't promote or try to sell
anything. In fact, he just seemed like a regular member who wanted to test
an ecat.

Daniel,

Greg is a con-man deluxe who has preyed on alternative energy supporters for
many years. He is the Aussie version of Dennis Lee. (if you know that name).

If "Aussie Guy" really is Greg Watson, then I am blown away at the arrogance
of this a__hole to come back on this forum, in particular.

He should have been charged with criminal fraud over the SMOT fiasco.

Not that it didn't work, which it didn't, but that he kept deposits and
never shipped products. And now it looks like SunCube could be an even
bigger scam.

Hey - Vo - let's welcome Greg back tomorrow with a listing of his many lies
... maybe his "Board" will give him the butt-kicking he deserves, if not
turn him over for prosecution. Chill out Greg, you may be on ice for a
while.


From: Daniel Rocha


Who is this Greg Watson? I found a bunch of guys with this name on google.

ROFL
This must be the Comedy Channel !
I haven't had as many laughs in months.
Say g'night to Greg, vorticians - we will likely not hear from this turkey
again.

Watson and Rossi - Birds of a feather, as they say ... they deserve each

other.
From: Eff Wivakeef
Greg Watson aka Aussie Guy
It is time for you to stop pulling your pudding!

From: Aussie Guy E-Cat
Steven,

It is almost 4am here. Time for me to chill out and get some sleep.

AG




--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com





 

-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ

danieldi...@gmail.com

 

RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Jones Beene]

GOOD WORK !

This is like a good B.M. after months of constipation.


From: Eff Wivakeef 

Because I have been on the bastards case for fooking YEARS!

http://www.lavanlegal.com.au/index.php/publications/publicationdetail/provin
g_the_width_of_publication_of_online_defamation_how_wide_is_the_audie 


From: Jones Beene 

So Aussie Guy is Greg Watson?
 
No wonder he does not want his name known on this forum.
 
Eff - How did you find this out? 
 
 
From: Eff Wivakeef 
 
Hello Aussie Guy

How are your smots and SunCubes going these days?

<>

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Harry Veeder]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Energy Liberator
 wrote:

>
> It's also possible Rossi was expecting the plant to be shipped when he made
> that comment after which he and the customer decided to leave the plant
> where it was and work on it in Bologna.

This is why one should doubt Rossi's commercial claims of stability,
safety, manufacturing capability, certification etc. He routinely
presents them as if they have already been realized. Unfortunately,
this has the effect of making *all* his claims appear bogus.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Eff Wivakeef]

MAIL FRAUD 
plain and simple
AND he is  an American citizen feel free to call the CIA!

Oh, did I mention this one?
The lawsuit is for purchasers of the common stock of Emcore Corporation 
(NASDAQ: EMKR) between June 12, 2007 and June 30, 2008.   


The lawsuit alleges that the Company made false and misleading statements 
throughout the class period in violation of federal securities laws by 
publishing statements that its main customer, Green and Gold Energy ("GGE"), 
was a viable company that could afford to purchase the product it had 
backordered from Emcore. In fact, the lawsuit alleges, Emcore knew that Green 
and Gold Energy would not be able to pay for its backlogged orders because, 
among other things, Emcore knew that: (1) the CEO of GGE formerly promoted a 
failed venture to produce a "perpetual motion machine" (a machine that modern 
science has proven cannot be made, and for which investors reportedly lost all 
their money), (2) GGE did not even have a plant to build the machine in which 
it was going to use the product it ordered from Emcore, (3) the prototype of 
GGE's machine in which it would use Emcore's product was not functional, and 
(4) the company GGE touted as it "exclusive distributor"
 (Zolar Distributors) was a sham company with no physical address created by 
GGE itself. Moreover, the lawsuit alleges that Emcore's insiders traded on the 
information that they concealed from the investing public, making big profits 
on unscheduled and unusual trades that they made ahead of the precipitous fall 
in the Company's share price.


On March 18, 2008, reports that GGE was not a viable company started to 
surface. On the basis of these reports, and Emcore's rebuttal to the reports, 
made the same day, which failed to address the specific allegations against 
GGE, the price of Emcore's shares dropped precipitously, falling more that 23% 
from the previous day's trading, on heavy volume.


The Law Offices of Howard G. Smith seeks to recover damages on behalf of class 
members. If you purchased common stock in Emcore Corporation (NASDAQ: EMKR) 
between June 12, 2007 and June 30, 2008 you may join the lawsuit by submitting 
your information online, or you may call the Law Offices of Howard G. Smith and 
speak to Mr. Smith directly to learn how he can protect your rights.



WAKE UP GREGGY
We'd like to have a chat with you!!

Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg

[Daniel Rocha]

But he didn't seem to offer any scam. He didn't promote or try to sell
anything. In fact, he just seemed like a regular member who wanted to test
an ecat.

2012/1/19 Jones Beene 

> Daniel,
>
> Greg is a con-man deluxe who has preyed on alternative energy supporters
> for
> many years. He is the Aussie version of Dennis Lee. (if you know that
> name).
>
> If "Aussie Guy" really is Greg Watson, then I am blown away at the
> arrogance
> of this a__hole to come back on this forum, in particular.
>
> He should have been charged with criminal fraud over the SMOT fiasco.
>
> Not that it didn't work, which it didn't, but that he kept deposits and
> never shipped products. And now it looks like SunCube could be an even
> bigger scam.
>
> Hey - Vo - let's welcome Greg back tomorrow with a listing of his many lies
> ... maybe his "Board" will give him the butt-kicking he deserves, if not
> turn him over for prosecution. Chill out Greg, you may be on ice for a
> while.
>
>
> From: Daniel Rocha
>
> Who is this Greg Watson? I found a bunch of guys with this name on google.
> ROFL
> This must be the Comedy Channel !
> I haven't had as many laughs in months.
> Say g'night to Greg, vorticians - we will likely not hear from this turkey
> again.
> Watson and Rossi - Birds of a feather, as they say ... they deserve each
> other.
> From: Eff Wivakeef
> Greg Watson aka Aussie Guy
> It is time for you to stop pulling your pudding!
> From: Aussie Guy E-Cat
> Steven,
>
> It is almost 4am here. Time for me to chill out and get some sleep.
>
> AG
>
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com