Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Thanks for sharing all the info you have on this subject... I appreciate your time. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: e...@wisp-router.com e...@wisp-router.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:04 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On another note. To do a FCC certification of a radio it's not just to do the testing. Either you have to have approval from the original certifier to reuse their cert filing to create a new FCC id to which you add your antennas that been tested. Or you have to have a lot of documentation such as block diagram, electrical schematics and bill of material which you can not just make up and the radio manufacturer will not just hand over to you because that is pretty much the entire blue print to recreate the radio and of course they do not want just about anyone to have this info. MikroTik allows as you point out their resellers and dists to get their FCC approved labels (for their radios) to be attached to MikroTik (and FCC certified) approved solutions their resellers put together. Important to keep in mind when getting a FCC certification a label design have to be submitted and approved by the FCC. I been directly involved with e-zy.net to get their radios certified working directly with the FCC lab. I initially as well helped MikroTik with their first few full certified units (crossroads and R52's). So know what is required as well the time and costs to get it done. So I'm not just making up things doing this I learned way more about part 15 and class B devices as well intentional transmitters then I ever really wanted to know. /Eje CTO WISP-Router, Inc. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 23:32:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 22:18 -0500, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs wrote: Yes, you can not certify the radios, MT wants the distributors to build and certify them. If you build them, they won't be certified. If Mikrotik has done the Part B certification for the boards, then your statement is not correct. Anyone CAN pay a certification lab for any combination of gear to be certified. Whether the lab certifies it or not isn't up to Mikrotik. What you cannot do is use the Mikrotik FCC stickers unless MT sells them to you or allows you to apply them to a combination that they have certified. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OSPF question
Well I have 1 Main Router with 2 peers on the same Eth port, I receive routes from 1, but not from the 2nd. Im using the same area for both, different networks (2 /30) All are Mt 3.23 with routing test, the only difference is that the 2 exchanging routes are rb1000, the other one is a x86 machine Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OSPF question On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 15:40 -0400, Gino Villarini wrote: Can I have several neighboors under the same interface? Yes. I have a OSPF neighboor in ether1, can I have another neighboor with the same area on the same interface? This is common for a broadcast network, actually. What is it that makes you ask? Are you seeing problems and wanting to clarify if this is a symptom of the problem? -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OSPF question
Does the x86 exchange with the non-main router? If it can route to it, they should exchange. If it doesn't, check all the settings on the x86 again. Area number is good. Router number is unique. Authentication is correct. Any of those can make it not work. You could turn on OSPF in logging and see what shows up in the log. Might point to the problem. Gino Villarini wrote: Well I have 1 Main Router with 2 peers on the same Eth port, I receive routes from 1, but not from the 2nd. Im using the same area for both, different networks (2 /30) All are Mt 3.23 with routing test, the only difference is that the 2 exchanging routes are rb1000, the other one is a x86 machine Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OSPF question On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 15:40 -0400, Gino Villarini wrote: Can I have several neighboors under the same interface? Yes. I have a OSPF neighboor in ether1, can I have another neighboor with the same area on the same interface? This is common for a broadcast network, actually. What is it that makes you ask? Are you seeing problems and wanting to clarify if this is a symptom of the problem? -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release Date: 05/11/09 16:14:00 -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Today's ARIN
https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four222 You have to utilize the assignment in 3 months. You have to currently be using 2x /24s. You have to return your old IPs to your provider. Some other stuff available on their web site. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 11:58 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Today's ARIN I have a customer that will be multi-homed soon. He has asked me to help him get ready for this move. I will be handling his BGP and such, but he wants me to handle getting his IP space from ARIN as well. It has been about 5 years since I've dealt with them at all, and I know there is likely to have been some changes in the way they handle their business. As I understand it, you can get as small as a /22 from them if you are multi-homed. Are there other requirements that I am overlooking? How hard are they to deal with in terms of getting them to provide you with an allocation in advance of the actual connection of the second circuit? It would be nice to only have 1 renumbering in this process. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
I think that what Dennis was trying to say is. You have to be a Mikrotik Distributor, and follow their documentation to be able to use their lab testing certification. Distributors are effectively MT agents using their already completed certification testing. Anyone can take some parts and have them lab tested and certified as a system. Mikrotik has already gone through the expense of testing in a lab, and they have a program to make these certifications available from the distributors. So, there is a difference in having parts listed as certified, and having a complete system with a sticker on it. The sticker makes it complete. Thanks Mike On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: I'm pretty sure the FCC and the testing labs don't care who you are or where you buy your stuff... thats not what they are looking for. Example - I choose to take 4 parts (some mikrotik) and get them certified - I can Do you see this differently? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC First, you have to be a distributor of MT to be able to certify. It has to be a certified system, as well has to have all of the images, text etc on it as well. You can only get those if you are a MT distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can you explain what you mean by certified then? What does that entail other than just putting together a board, antenna and radio that are fcc certified? Do you have the entire unit tested and certified, or do yo see that as not necessary? Randy Eje Gustafsson wrote: Cross roads are certified with the entire Pacific Wireless line of antennas. R52 is certified with most of those as well (if not all). You can also use XR2/5 cards in RB SBC's. There are other solutions as well. We offer some certified pre built solutions more to come. / Eje Gustafsson CTO WISP-Router, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Old thread, but just curious where this has progressed. I've seen that JeffSoHoCo has certified gear. Is that based on the same Mikrotik program you describe here Mac? Is that information available from Mikrotik to any reseller? Randy Mac Dearman wrote: Word on the FCC certified gear is that they are working with USA based resellers to get them up to speed to offer certified gear. It's all in the paperwork at this point in time and we all know that the devil is in the paperwork. It is on its way from what I understand and should be readily available in the near future. Mac -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Mikrotik has the Crossroads device out now. Not sure on anyone else. I think Mikrotik developing their own certified CPE shut down everyone else. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Hi, I thought a little while ago someone was talking about someone that was working on making an FCC certified Mikrotik solution (RB532, etc.).
Re: [WISPA] Today's ARIN
Butch Evans wrote: It has been about 5 years since I've dealt with them at all, and I know there is likely to have been some changes in the way they handle their business. As I understand it, you can get as small as a /22 from them if you are multi-homed. Are there other requirements that I am overlooking? How hard are they to deal with in terms of getting them to provide you with an allocation in advance of the actual connection of the second circuit? It would be nice to only have 1 renumbering in this process. As long as your client needs that much address space, (i.e. is efficiently using at least a /23 or so already), ARIN is generally pretty easy to work with. Have your documentation together, show them that you know what you're talking about, and you'll get your request granted. As long as you're intending to multi-home, the fact that you haven't yet actually done so shouldn't be a problem in getting an ASN and a small IPv4 allocation. They did recently introduce a new policy that IPv4 requests need to include a signed attestation from a corporate officer, but that's probably a rubber-stamp affair (and I don't think it officially takes effect 'til next week anyway). Be sure to get some IPv6 space while you're there, it's free, and they'll need it in a couple years anyway. :) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Today's ARIN
You must be multihomed first - they request both upstream peers and need to see your advertisements on the net in BGP table My experience any way. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Today's ARIN Butch Evans wrote: It has been about 5 years since I've dealt with them at all, and I know there is likely to have been some changes in the way they handle their business. As I understand it, you can get as small as a /22 from them if you are multi-homed. Are there other requirements that I am overlooking? How hard are they to deal with in terms of getting them to provide you with an allocation in advance of the actual connection of the second circuit? It would be nice to only have 1 renumbering in this process. As long as your client needs that much address space, (i.e. is efficiently using at least a /23 or so already), ARIN is generally pretty easy to work with. Have your documentation together, show them that you know what you're talking about, and you'll get your request granted. As long as you're intending to multi-home, the fact that you haven't yet actually done so shouldn't be a problem in getting an ASN and a small IPv4 allocation. They did recently introduce a new policy that IPv4 requests need to include a signed attestation from a corporate officer, but that's probably a rubber-stamp affair (and I don't think it officially takes effect 'til next week anyway). Be sure to get some IPv6 space while you're there, it's free, and they'll need it in a couple years anyway. :) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] As seen on Twitter
Recently I saw these comments made on Twitter and I was wondering if anyone could track down some quotable sources for these. Rep Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) says that historically a $1 investment in broadband yields a $10 return. So a $7.2B investment... NTIA's Larry Irving wants to see USF funds provide $7B ANNUALLY for broadband. Says that the current $7.2 is a down payment. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Can we clarify what a distributor is, and what a reseller is as far as Mikrotik is concerned for this program? Can a wisp (are they resellers?) get permission from Mikrotik to certify a kit? Where can we find out more on this? Are there distributors who will do on behalf of a wisp? Randy Mike Delp wrote: I think that what Dennis was trying to say is. You have to be a Mikrotik Distributor, and follow their documentation to be able to use their lab testing certification. Distributors are effectively MT agents using their already completed certification testing. Anyone can take some parts and have them lab tested and certified as a system. Mikrotik has already gone through the expense of testing in a lab, and they have a program to make these certifications available from the distributors. So, there is a difference in having parts listed as certified, and having a complete system with a sticker on it. The sticker makes it complete. Thanks Mike On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: I'm pretty sure the FCC and the testing labs don't care who you are or where you buy your stuff... thats not what they are looking for. Example - I choose to take 4 parts (some mikrotik) and get them certified - I can Do you see this differently? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC First, you have to be a distributor of MT to be able to certify. It has to be a certified system, as well has to have all of the images, text etc on it as well. You can only get those if you are a MT distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can you explain what you mean by certified then? What does that entail other than just putting together a board, antenna and radio that are fcc certified? Do you have the entire unit tested and certified, or do yo see that as not necessary? Randy Eje Gustafsson wrote: Cross roads are certified with the entire Pacific Wireless line of antennas. R52 is certified with most of those as well (if not all). You can also use XR2/5 cards in RB SBC's. There are other solutions as well. We offer some certified pre built solutions more to come. / Eje Gustafsson CTO WISP-Router, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Old thread, but just curious where this has progressed. I've seen that JeffSoHoCo has certified gear. Is that based on the same Mikrotik program you describe here Mac? Is that information available from Mikrotik to any reseller? Randy Mac Dearman wrote: Word on the FCC certified gear is that they are working with USA based resellers to get them up to speed to offer certified gear. It's all in the paperwork at this point in time and we all know that the devil is in the paperwork. It is on its way from what I understand and should be readily available in the near future. Mac -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Mikrotik has the Crossroads device out now. Not sure on anyone else. I think Mikrotik developing their own certified CPE shut down everyone else. --
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
I belive you must purchase hardware directly from MT to be a distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can we clarify what a distributor is, and what a reseller is as far as Mikrotik is concerned for this program? Can a wisp (are they resellers?) get permission from Mikrotik to certify a kit? Where can we find out more on this? Are there distributors who will do on behalf of a wisp? Randy Mike Delp wrote: I think that what Dennis was trying to say is. You have to be a Mikrotik Distributor, and follow their documentation to be able to use their lab testing certification. Distributors are effectively MT agents using their already completed certification testing. Anyone can take some parts and have them lab tested and certified as a system. Mikrotik has already gone through the expense of testing in a lab, and they have a program to make these certifications available from the distributors. So, there is a difference in having parts listed as certified, and having a complete system with a sticker on it. The sticker makes it complete. Thanks Mike On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: I'm pretty sure the FCC and the testing labs don't care who you are or where you buy your stuff... thats not what they are looking for. Example - I choose to take 4 parts (some mikrotik) and get them certified - I can Do you see this differently? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC First, you have to be a distributor of MT to be able to certify. It has to be a certified system, as well has to have all of the images, text etc on it as well. You can only get those if you are a MT distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can you explain what you mean by certified then? What does that entail other than just putting together a board, antenna and radio that are fcc certified? Do you have the entire unit tested and certified, or do yo see that as not necessary? Randy Eje Gustafsson wrote: Cross roads are certified with the entire Pacific Wireless line of antennas. R52 is certified with most of those as well (if not all). You can also use XR2/5 cards in RB SBC's. There are other solutions as well. We offer some certified pre built solutions more to come. / Eje Gustafsson CTO WISP-Router, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:56
Re: [WISPA] whats your longest uptime?
Just found this - made me happy =) AN50 492 day(s), 03 hr, 19 min, 00 sec Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Why did you reboot it??? On 4/9/09, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: We had a Trango 5830AP that had an uptime of over 578 days just a few days ago... but then we rebooted it. :( Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Tower mounted AP = 500+ days. Customer prem switch = 5+ years. Tower router = 321 days Sadly, nothing in my NOC has an uptime past this: mvncsw1 uptime is 2 years, 7 weeks, 8 hours, 43 minutes but that's how long it's been since we moved into our new office. Nice to know the UPS and generator are doing their job... I do have at least one Linux server that's been up long enough that its uptime counter rolled over (which happens somewhere around 497 days). The best I can find in my wireless network right now (without really looking) is a fairly remote Trango SU that says this: [System Up Time] 230 day(s) 03:13:13 Hey, as long as it works. :D David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
You have to buy your product directly from Mikrotik, and the minimum order is 10,000/month Thanks Mike On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Can we clarify what a distributor is, and what a reseller is as far as Mikrotik is concerned for this program? Can a wisp (are they resellers?) get permission from Mikrotik to certify a kit? Where can we find out more on this? Are there distributors who will do on behalf of a wisp? Randy Mike Delp wrote: I think that what Dennis was trying to say is. You have to be a Mikrotik Distributor, and follow their documentation to be able to use their lab testing certification. Distributors are effectively MT agents using their already completed certification testing. Anyone can take some parts and have them lab tested and certified as a system. Mikrotik has already gone through the expense of testing in a lab, and they have a program to make these certifications available from the distributors. So, there is a difference in having parts listed as certified, and having a complete system with a sticker on it. The sticker makes it complete. Thanks Mike On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: I'm pretty sure the FCC and the testing labs don't care who you are or where you buy your stuff... thats not what they are looking for. Example - I choose to take 4 parts (some mikrotik) and get them certified - I can Do you see this differently? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC First, you have to be a distributor of MT to be able to certify. It has to be a certified system, as well has to have all of the images, text etc on it as well. You can only get those if you are a MT distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can you explain what you mean by certified then? What does that entail other than just putting together a board, antenna and radio that are fcc certified? Do you have the entire unit tested and certified, or do yo see that as not necessary? Randy Eje Gustafsson wrote: Cross roads are certified with the entire Pacific Wireless line of antennas. R52 is certified with most of those as well (if not all). You can also use XR2/5 cards in RB SBC's. There are other solutions as well. We offer some certified pre built solutions more to come. / Eje Gustafsson CTO WISP-Router, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Old thread, but just curious where this has progressed. I've seen that JeffSoHoCo has certified gear. Is that based on the same Mikrotik program you describe here Mac? Is that information available from Mikrotik to any reseller? Randy Mac Dearman wrote: Word on the FCC certified gear is that they are working with USA based resellers to get them up to speed to offer certified gear. It's all in the paperwork at this point in time and we all know that the devil is in the paperwork. It is on its way from what I understand and should be readily available in the near future. Mac -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Mikrotik has the Crossroads device out now. Not sure on anyone else. I think Mikrotik developing their own
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Randy, Dumb question If you are a wisp what would be the motivation to certify a kit? Its been clearly stated that you can take the RB, a radio card and stick it in an enclosure and use it to your hearts content legally per FCC / UL rules. Why would anyone do anything other than just use the parts - except if you are reselling the gear... I think that's where you run into the issue of having to have the whole system certified vs just buying and using the parts. Is that correct? lol sorry to be such a pita but I'd like some definitive answers just once so I can put this to bed... Questions I ask myself... 1) Ok, Its legal and perfectly accepted for me to buy a RB411, a XR5, a PoE-24i, an ARC 5Ghz Gen 2 Enclosure put it all together and use it for my on network or customers all day long every day (assuming I'm legal power, correct bands etc)... True or False 2) Assuming #1 above is True - I cannot sell this equipment as a Brevard Wireless Model 500 ptp radio bridge on the retail market without getting the whole system certified as a kit including all parts, documentation, power supplies etc... True or False 3) If #1 and #2 above are both true, I'm clear thanks conversation over. If either one is false we have a lot more to talk about... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I belive you must purchase hardware directly from MT to be a distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can we clarify what a distributor is, and what a reseller is as far as Mikrotik is concerned for this program? Can a wisp (are they resellers?) get permission from Mikrotik to certify a kit? Where can we find out more on this? Are there distributors who will do on behalf of a wisp? Randy Mike Delp wrote: I think that what Dennis was trying to say is. You have to be a Mikrotik Distributor, and follow their documentation to be able to use their lab testing certification. Distributors are effectively MT agents using their already completed certification testing. Anyone can take some parts and have them lab tested and certified as a system. Mikrotik has already gone through the expense of testing in a lab, and they have a program to make these certifications available from the distributors. So, there is a difference in having parts listed as certified, and having a complete system with a sticker on it. The sticker makes it complete. Thanks Mike On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: I'm pretty sure the FCC and the testing labs don't care who you are or where you buy your stuff... thats not what they are looking for. Example - I choose to take 4 parts (some mikrotik) and get them certified - I can Do you see this differently? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC First, you have to be a distributor of MT to be able to certify. It has to be a certified system, as well has to have all of the images, text etc on it as well. You can only get those if you are a MT distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Thanks Scott. I'd like to see this all clarified as well. Guess I must have read things differently than you and was not as certain that the answers were definitive. Randy Scott Carullo wrote: Randy, Dumb question If you are a wisp what would be the motivation to certify a kit? Its been clearly stated that you can take the RB, a radio card and stick it in an enclosure and use it to your hearts content legally per FCC / UL rules. Why would anyone do anything other than just use the parts - except if you are reselling the gear... I think that's where you run into the issue of having to have the whole system certified vs just buying and using the parts. Is that correct? lol sorry to be such a pita but I'd like some definitive answers just once so I can put this to bed... Questions I ask myself... 1) Ok, Its legal and perfectly accepted for me to buy a RB411, a XR5, a PoE-24i, an ARC 5Ghz Gen 2 Enclosure put it all together and use it for my on network or customers all day long every day (assuming I'm legal power, correct bands etc)... True or False 2) Assuming #1 above is True - I cannot sell this equipment as a Brevard Wireless Model 500 ptp radio bridge on the retail market without getting the whole system certified as a kit including all parts, documentation, power supplies etc... True or False 3) If #1 and #2 above are both true, I'm clear thanks conversation over. If either one is false we have a lot more to talk about... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I belive you must purchase hardware directly from MT to be a distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can we clarify what a distributor is, and what a reseller is as far as Mikrotik is concerned for this program? Can a wisp (are they resellers?) get permission from Mikrotik to certify a kit? Where can we find out more on this? Are there distributors who will do on behalf of a wisp? Randy Mike Delp wrote: I think that what Dennis was trying to say is. You have to be a Mikrotik Distributor, and follow their documentation to be able to use their lab testing certification. Distributors are effectively MT agents using their already completed certification testing. Anyone can take some parts and have them lab tested and certified as a system. Mikrotik has already gone through the expense of testing in a lab, and they have a program to make these certifications available from the distributors. So, there is a difference in having parts listed as certified, and having a complete system with a sticker on it. The sticker makes it complete. Thanks Mike On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: I'm pretty sure the FCC and the testing labs don't care who you are or where you buy your stuff... thats not what they are looking for. Example - I choose to take 4 parts (some mikrotik) and get them certified - I can Do you see this differently? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC First, you have to be a distributor of MT to be able to certify. It has to be a certified system, as well has to have all of the images, text etc on it
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Scott, Thats not the case, you have to have the Mikrotik FCC Sticker etc.. To your questions. 1. Nope 2. Nope. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Scott Carullo wrote: Randy, Dumb question If you are a wisp what would be the motivation to certify a kit? Its been clearly stated that you can take the RB, a radio card and stick it in an enclosure and use it to your hearts content legally per FCC / UL rules. Why would anyone do anything other than just use the parts - except if you are reselling the gear... I think that's where you run into the issue of having to have the whole system certified vs just buying and using the parts. Is that correct? lol sorry to be such a pita but I'd like some definitive answers just once so I can put this to bed... Questions I ask myself... 1) Ok, Its legal and perfectly accepted for me to buy a RB411, a XR5, a PoE-24i, an ARC 5Ghz Gen 2 Enclosure put it all together and use it for my on network or customers all day long every day (assuming I'm legal power, correct bands etc)... True or False 2) Assuming #1 above is True - I cannot sell this equipment as a Brevard Wireless Model 500 ptp radio bridge on the retail market without getting the whole system certified as a kit including all parts, documentation, power supplies etc... True or False 3) If #1 and #2 above are both true, I'm clear thanks conversation over. If either one is false we have a lot more to talk about... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I belive you must purchase hardware directly from MT to be a distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can we clarify what a distributor is, and what a reseller is as far as Mikrotik is concerned for this program? Can a wisp (are they resellers?) get permission from Mikrotik to certify a kit? Where can we find out more on this? Are there distributors who will do on behalf of a wisp? Randy Mike Delp wrote: I think that what Dennis was trying to say is. You have to be a Mikrotik Distributor, and follow their documentation to be able to use their lab testing certification. Distributors are effectively MT agents using their already completed certification testing. Anyone can take some parts and have them lab tested and certified as a system. Mikrotik has already gone through the expense of testing in a lab, and they have a program to make these certifications available from the distributors. So, there is a difference in having parts listed as certified, and having a complete system with a sticker on it. The sticker makes it complete.
Re: [WISPA] Sector separation/isolation
What about the R52 cards? Matt On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 11:00 AM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Keep in mind that this is not necessary true depending what chip set the card is using. For example the SR2 cards will always listen to 20Mhz even if they only transmit on 10MHz or even 5MHz. While for example a XR2 set in 10MHz mode will only listen to 10MHz. /Eje CTO WISP-Router, Inc. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 11:40:31 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sector separation/isolation Right now channel 1 uses channel 1, 2 and 3. Channel 6 uses 4-8. When you go to 10MHz channels 1 will use 1 and 2. 6 will use 5, 6 and 7. Therefore, you are no longer on adjacent channels, there is a gap of channels 3 and 4 between. Also, you will cut down on the amount of other noise you hear because you listen to only half as much spectrum. And, you will have more effective power so noise may be less of a problem. I am sure there are some RF savvy folks out there that can explain it better. Michael Baird wrote: I can try that, can you tell me why that would make a difference though with the AP's seeing each other at such signal levels? Will changing to 10mhz channel width's cause the AP's to see each other at a lower RSSI? Regards Michael Baird Use 10mhz channels instead of 20mhz. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Sector separation/isolation We are still experimenting with aligning sector's on our towers. We are attempting to use 3 120 degree/13db/6.5 vb/7 degree downtilt, antennas to cover 360 degrees. I just inspected the towers myself, and noticed they are setup at 30 degrees/150 degrees/290 degrees (so they aren't right exactly). So the problem that caused me to inspect the tower was the signal level I can see the other AP's at. AP 30 can see AP 150 at -39 and AP 290 at -42. AP 150 can see AP 30 at -42 and AP 290 at -70. AP 290 can see AP 30 at -39 and AP 150 at -65. So I'm guessing that the reason 150/290 are much higher is because of the additional 20 degrees between them. These AP's are on channels 1/6/11, I'm wondering if I should worry about seeing the other AP's with such a hot signal, and if so what are some good ways to isolate them better. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.323 / Virus Database: 270.12.13/2091 - Release Date: 05/01/09 17:52:00 -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... You guys please come to conclusion so we can move to #2 Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:13 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Scott, Thats not the case, you have to have the Mikrotik FCC Sticker etc.. To your questions. 1. Nope 2. Nope. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Scott Carullo wrote: Randy, Dumb question If you are a wisp what would be the motivation to certify a kit? Its been clearly stated that you can take the RB, a radio card and stick it in an enclosure and use it to your hearts content legally per FCC / UL rules. Why would anyone do anything other than just use the parts - except if you are reselling the gear... I think that's where you run into the issue of having to have the whole system certified vs just buying and using the parts. Is that correct? lol sorry to be such a pita but I'd like some definitive answers just once so I can put this to bed... Questions I ask myself... 1) Ok, Its legal and perfectly accepted for me to buy a RB411, a XR5, a PoE-24i, an ARC 5Ghz Gen 2 Enclosure put it all together and use it for my on network or customers all day long every day (assuming I'm legal power, correct bands etc)... True or False 2) Assuming #1 above is True - I cannot sell this equipment as a Brevard Wireless Model 500 ptp radio bridge on the retail market without getting the whole system certified as a kit including all parts, documentation, power supplies etc... True or False 3) If #1 and #2 above are both true, I'm clear thanks conversation over. If either one is false we have a lot more to talk about... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I belive you must purchase hardware directly from MT to be a distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can we clarify what a distributor is, and what a reseller is as far as Mikrotik is concerned for this program? Can a wisp (are they resellers?) get permission from Mikrotik to certify a kit? Where can we find out more on this? Are there distributors who will do on behalf of a wisp? Randy Mike Delp wrote: I think that what Dennis was trying to say is. You have to be a Mikrotik Distributor, and follow
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
I read the rules a few years ago because of the laptop question. My understanding is: if the SBC is Part B compliant if the radio board is certified with the antenna it is OK. Which, I believe, is what Eje said. Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... You guys please come to conclusion so we can move to #2 Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:13 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Scott, Thats not the case, you have to have the Mikrotik FCC Sticker etc.. To your questions. 1. Nope 2. Nope. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Scott Carullo wrote: Randy, Dumb question If you are a wisp what would be the motivation to certify a kit? Its been clearly stated that you can take the RB, a radio card and stick it in an enclosure and use it to your hearts content legally per FCC / UL rules. Why would anyone do anything other than just use the parts - except if you are reselling the gear... I think that's where you run into the issue of having to have the whole system certified vs just buying and using the parts. Is that correct? lol sorry to be such a pita but I'd like some definitive answers just once so I can put this to bed... Questions I ask myself... 1) Ok, Its legal and perfectly accepted for me to buy a RB411, a XR5, a PoE-24i, an ARC 5Ghz Gen 2 Enclosure put it all together and use it for my on network or customers all day long every day (assuming I'm legal power, correct bands etc)... True or False 2) Assuming #1 above is True - I cannot sell this equipment as a Brevard Wireless Model 500 ptp radio bridge on the retail market without getting the whole system certified as a kit including all parts, documentation, power supplies etc... True or False 3) If #1 and #2 above are both true, I'm clear thanks conversation over. If either one is false we have a lot more to talk about... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I belive you must purchase hardware directly from MT to be a distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that time the system certification requirement stands. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 13:02 -0400, Scott Carullo wrote: Its been clearly stated that you can take the RB, a radio card and stick it in an enclosure and use it to your hearts content legally per FCC / UL rules. The trouble with that approach is that it isn't legal. In order to be legal, it has to have the sticker. Having said that, all that is required in order to get a sticker is one of 2 things: 1. Buy a system that is built by a distributor and stickered. 2. Build a system and take it to a certification lab and pay the price to get YOUR system certified. There is, unfortunately, no shortcut or third option. This has been discussed at length on this (and many other) list. There are, in the rules, several areas that are not clear. It is this grey area that is the source of various opinions. However, the above 2 options really are your only choices. 1) Ok, Its legal and perfectly accepted for me to buy a RB411, a XR5, a PoE-24i, an ARC 5Ghz Gen 2 Enclosure put it all together and use it for my on network or customers all day long every day (assuming I'm legal power, correct bands etc)... True or False False. First, the combinations that MT has certified include the R52 and nearly any Pac Wireless antenna. There are, also, some antennas from Poynting that are (from my understanding) certified. While I personally disagree that you can use these component certifications legally, it appears that MT and several distributors are calling these FCC certified systems. They may be correct in doing so. According to Eje and his experience with the certification lab, this approach IS acceptable. If he is correct, then you can choose option number 1 above and be legal. 2) Assuming #1 above is True - I cannot sell this equipment as a Brevard Wireless Model 500 ptp radio bridge on the retail market without getting the whole system certified as a kit including all parts, documentation, power supplies etc... True or False This is not a relevant question. The system that is stickered with Mikrotik's FCC Certification is only available from a Mikrotik Distributor. That is the point that Dennis was making. The particular wording he used left a lot of room for misinterpretation and was not completely correct because of that, however the point is that with the MT sticker, you can ONLY get that from a Mikrotik distributor as a system. (FWIW, I can help you with that, too.) -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
If that's true then it's illegal for me to buy a RB411, a XR5, an enclosure and put it together myself? If that's true why do they sell all that stuff without disclaimers? Am I supposed to put this stuff together and then go through a certification process? Greg On May 12, 2009, at 1:12 PM, Dennis Burgess - Linktechs wrote: Scott, Thats not the case, you have to have the Mikrotik FCC Sticker etc.. To your questions. 1. Nope 2. Nope. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Scott Carullo wrote: Randy, Dumb question If you are a wisp what would be the motivation to certify a kit? Its been clearly stated that you can take the RB, a radio card and stick it in an enclosure and use it to your hearts content legally per FCC / UL rules. Why would anyone do anything other than just use the parts - except if you are reselling the gear... I think that's where you run into the issue of having to have the whole system certified vs just buying and using the parts. Is that correct? lol sorry to be such a pita but I'd like some definitive answers just once so I can put this to bed... Questions I ask myself... 1) Ok, Its legal and perfectly accepted for me to buy a RB411, a XR5, a PoE-24i, an ARC 5Ghz Gen 2 Enclosure put it all together and use it for my on network or customers all day long every day (assuming I'm legal power, correct bands etc)... True or False 2) Assuming #1 above is True - I cannot sell this equipment as a Brevard Wireless Model 500 ptp radio bridge on the retail market without getting the whole system certified as a kit including all parts, documentation, power supplies etc... True or False 3) If #1 and #2 above are both true, I'm clear thanks conversation over. If either one is false we have a lot more to talk about... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I belive you must purchase hardware directly from MT to be a distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can we clarify what a distributor is, and what a reseller is as far as Mikrotik is concerned for this program? Can a wisp (are they resellers?) get permission from Mikrotik to certify a kit? Where can we find out more on this? Are there distributors who will do on behalf of a wisp? Randy Mike Delp wrote: I think that what Dennis was trying to say is. You have to be a Mikrotik Distributor, and follow their documentation to be able to use their lab testing certification. Distributors are effectively MT agents using their already completed certification testing. Anyone can take some parts and have them lab tested and certified as a system. Mikrotik has already gone through the expense of testing in a lab, and they
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5 which has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the same gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it certified again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna. If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but I am fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final conclusion based on facts and I think we should. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:52 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that time the system certification requirement stands. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
On May 12, 2009, at 2:24 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5 which has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the same gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it certified again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna. You are mixing issues. The ability to change antennas is different than system certification. If you had a system that was certified with one antenna you could change the antenna to something of similar type with the same or less gain without an issue. But, the system itself must certified. If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but I am fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final conclusion based on facts and I think we should. This list is filled with resources that will tell you what you don't want to hear and another group that will tell you want you do want to hear. None of that matters. What you need to do is assume the worst case or get your specific case approved by the FCC. In other words, what you want will not work and you cannot do it until the FCC gives you written approval. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Maybe this will clear things up (or muddy the waters) I am looking at the bottom of my EEEPC which has a FCC ID: PPD-AR5BXB63 (Atheros 802.11B/G) which refers to: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=E xhibitsRequestTimeout=500calledFromFrame=Napplication_id=141428fcc_i d=%27PPD-AR5BXB63%27 In the Test Report neither EEEPC or ASUS are mentioned. The test was performed on a external jig on an HP laptop with a 3dB dipole. Next I looked up a Ubiquty SR71 card: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=E xhibitsRequestTimeout=500calledFromFrame=Napplication_id=287610fcc_i d=%27SWX-SR71%27. Again, the test was done an external jig on a different model HP laptop. The Antenna Info sheet includes a 32Db pac wireless dish, a 5dB 2.4 omni, 17dB 2.4 panel (not sector), and a 21dB 5.8 panel (not sector). Based on this I conclude that I can use any certified radio in my computer (routerboard) as long as I do not use an antenna that is not type certified. I need to put the FCC ID of the radio(s) on the outside of the case so that an inspector does not need to open the unit to obtain it. Thoughts? Comments? __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:24 AM To: Matt Liotta; wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5 which has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the same gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it certified again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna. If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but I am fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final conclusion based on facts and I think we should. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:52 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that time the system certification requirement stands. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
This been debated in circles many times with many people with seemingly valid parts on both side. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:08 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Maybe this will clear things up (or muddy the waters) I am looking at the bottom of my EEEPC which has a FCC ID: PPD-AR5BXB63 (Atheros 802.11B/G) which refers to: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=E xhibitsRequestTimeout=500calledFromFrame=Napplication_id=141428fcc_i d=%27PPD-AR5BXB63%27 In the Test Report neither EEEPC or ASUS are mentioned. The test was performed on a external jig on an HP laptop with a 3dB dipole. Next I looked up a Ubiquty SR71 card: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=E xhibitsRequestTimeout=500calledFromFrame=Napplication_id=287610fcc_i d=%27SWX-SR71%27. Again, the test was done an external jig on a different model HP laptop. The Antenna Info sheet includes a 32Db pac wireless dish, a 5dB 2.4 omni, 17dB 2.4 panel (not sector), and a 21dB 5.8 panel (not sector). Based on this I conclude that I can use any certified radio in my computer (routerboard) as long as I do not use an antenna that is not type certified. I need to put the FCC ID of the radio(s) on the outside of the case so that an inspector does not need to open the unit to obtain it. Thoughts? Comments? __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:24 AM To: Matt Liotta; wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5 which has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the same gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it certified again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna. If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but I am fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final conclusion based on facts and I think we should. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:52 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that time the system certification requirement stands. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
The Contains FCC ID: PPD-AR5BXB63 means that the laptop contains a certified module. EEEPC or whoever the manufacturer is, still had to get a Declaration of Conformity covering the laptop, module, likely peripherals, and AC adapter. What they didn't have to do is get a new full certification for the system. Just a DoC. A DoC still requires a lab test but it is cheaper than a full cert. -Hal On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 12:08 -0700, Jerry Richardson wrote: Maybe this will clear things up (or muddy the waters) I am looking at the bottom of my EEEPC which has a FCC ID: PPD-AR5BXB63 (Atheros 802.11B/G) which refers to: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=E xhibitsRequestTimeout=500calledFromFrame=Napplication_id=141428fcc_i d=%27PPD-AR5BXB63%27 In the Test Report neither EEEPC or ASUS are mentioned. The test was performed on a external jig on an HP laptop with a 3dB dipole. Next I looked up a Ubiquty SR71 card: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=E xhibitsRequestTimeout=500calledFromFrame=Napplication_id=287610fcc_i d=%27SWX-SR71%27. Again, the test was done an external jig on a different model HP laptop. The Antenna Info sheet includes a 32Db pac wireless dish, a 5dB 2.4 omni, 17dB 2.4 panel (not sector), and a 21dB 5.8 panel (not sector). Based on this I conclude that I can use any certified radio in my computer (routerboard) as long as I do not use an antenna that is not type certified. I need to put the FCC ID of the radio(s) on the outside of the case so that an inspector does not need to open the unit to obtain it. Thoughts? Comments? __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:24 AM To: Matt Liotta; wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5 which has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the same gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it certified again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna. If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but I am fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final conclusion based on facts and I think we should. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:52 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that time the system certification requirement stands. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Only the manufacturer listed on the certificate can make that decision. The rules states that antenna of similar type in same or lower gain is certified but it's only the manufacturer that can make that decision what is considered similar type and there for approved to use with the unit. This is at least the feedback I gotten from the FCC testing lab I been working with on getting radios certified. But if the radio manufacturer say it's ok to use a similar antenna by a different manufacturer but not higher gain then what was tested the it's ok. Of course any antenna that is actual listed on the certificate will always be approved as long it's the same model. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:23 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC That was some ruling passed a few years ago that really freed the markets up. Certify with the largest panel, omni, parabolic dish, etc. you can get to pass and anything in those groups is fair game. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:24 PM To: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com; wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5 which has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the same gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it certified again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna. If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but I am fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final conclusion based on facts and I think we should. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:52 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that time the system certification requirement stands. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Now that makes sense __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Harold Bledsoe Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC The Contains FCC ID: PPD-AR5BXB63 means that the laptop contains a certified module. EEEPC or whoever the manufacturer is, still had to get a Declaration of Conformity covering the laptop, module, likely peripherals, and AC adapter. What they didn't have to do is get a new full certification for the system. Just a DoC. A DoC still requires a lab test but it is cheaper than a full cert. -Hal On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 12:08 -0700, Jerry Richardson wrote: Maybe this will clear things up (or muddy the waters) I am looking at the bottom of my EEEPC which has a FCC ID: PPD-AR5BXB63 (Atheros 802.11B/G) which refers to: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode =E xhibitsRequestTimeout=500calledFromFrame=Napplication_id=141428fcc _i d=%27PPD-AR5BXB63%27 In the Test Report neither EEEPC or ASUS are mentioned. The test was performed on a external jig on an HP laptop with a 3dB dipole. Next I looked up a Ubiquty SR71 card: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode =E xhibitsRequestTimeout=500calledFromFrame=Napplication_id=287610fcc _i d=%27SWX-SR71%27. Again, the test was done an external jig on a different model HP laptop. The Antenna Info sheet includes a 32Db pac wireless dish, a 5dB 2.4 omni, 17dB 2.4 panel (not sector), and a 21dB 5.8 panel (not sector). Based on this I conclude that I can use any certified radio in my computer (routerboard) as long as I do not use an antenna that is not type certified. I need to put the FCC ID of the radio(s) on the outside of the case so that an inspector does not need to open the unit to obtain it. Thoughts? Comments? __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:24 AM To: Matt Liotta; wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5 which has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the same gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it certified again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna. If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but I am fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final conclusion based on facts and I think we should. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:52 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that time the system certification requirement stands. -Matt -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
My view is that once certified with a specific antenna then a system is legal with any antenna of similar type (panel, yagi, etc.) of equal of lesser gain. Anybody can make the decision to substitute a similar type but lower gain antenna. I ran this by the FCC last year and they confirmed it. Again, the original system must have already been certified Eje Gustafsson wrote: Only the manufacturer listed on the certificate can make that decision. The rules states that antenna of similar type in same or lower gain is certified but it's only the manufacturer that can make that decision what is considered similar type and there for approved to use with the unit. This is at least the feedback I gotten from the FCC testing lab I been working with on getting radios certified. But if the radio manufacturer say it's ok to use a similar antenna by a different manufacturer but not higher gain then what was tested the it's ok. Of course any antenna that is actual listed on the certificate will always be approved as long it's the same model. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:23 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC That was some ruling passed a few years ago that really freed the markets up. Certify with the largest panel, omni, parabolic dish, etc. you can get to pass and anything in those groups is fair game. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:24 PM To: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com; wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5 which has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the same gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it certified again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna. If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but I am fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final conclusion based on facts and I think we should. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:52 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that time the system certification requirement stands. -Matt -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Email spam is just the latest way of asking for Forgiveness instead of asking for Permission. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Ok... so back to original dilemma... I take a XR5, the precise antenna they certified with this radio card, a RB411 and hook it all up and use it myself within FCC RF guidelines. Criminal or law abiding citizen... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:47 PM To: e...@wisp-router.com e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC My view is that once certified with a specific antenna then a system is legal with any antenna of similar type (panel, yagi, etc.) of equal of lesser gain. Anybody can make the decision to substitute a similar type but lower gain antenna. I ran this by the FCC last year and they confirmed it. Again, the original system must have already been certified Eje Gustafsson wrote: Only the manufacturer listed on the certificate can make that decision. The rules states that antenna of similar type in same or lower gain is certified but it's only the manufacturer that can make that decision what is considered similar type and there for approved to use with the unit. This is at least the feedback I gotten from the FCC testing lab I been working with on getting radios certified. But if the radio manufacturer say it's ok to use a similar antenna by a different manufacturer but not higher gain then what was tested the it's ok. Of course any antenna that is actual listed on the certificate will always be approved as long it's the same model. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:23 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC That was some ruling passed a few years ago that really freed the markets up. Certify with the largest panel, omni, parabolic dish, etc. you can get to pass and anything in those groups is fair game. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:24 PM To: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com; wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5 which has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the same gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it certified again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna. If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but I am fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final conclusion based on facts and I think we should. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:52 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that time the system certification requirement stands. -Matt -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Email spam is just the latest way of asking for Forgiveness instead of asking for Permission. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
All depends on who the FCC had deputized, it sounds like :) Randy Scott Carullo wrote: Ok... so back to original dilemma... I take a XR5, the precise antenna they certified with this radio card, a RB411 and hook it all up and use it myself within FCC RF guidelines. Criminal or law abiding citizen... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:47 PM To: e...@wisp-router.com e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC My view is that once certified with a specific antenna then a system is legal with any antenna of similar type (panel, yagi, etc.) of equal of lesser gain. Anybody can make the decision to substitute a similar type but lower gain antenna. I ran this by the FCC last year and they confirmed it. Again, the original system must have already been certified Eje Gustafsson wrote: Only the manufacturer listed on the certificate can make that decision. The rules states that antenna of similar type in same or lower gain is certified but it's only the manufacturer that can make that decision what is considered similar type and there for approved to use with the unit. This is at least the feedback I gotten from the FCC testing lab I been working with on getting radios certified. But if the radio manufacturer say it's ok to use a similar antenna by a different manufacturer but not higher gain then what was tested the it's ok. Of course any antenna that is actual listed on the certificate will always be approved as long it's the same model. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:23 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC That was some ruling passed a few years ago that really freed the markets up. Certify with the largest panel, omni, parabolic dish, etc. you can get to pass and anything in those groups is fair game. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:24 PM To: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com; wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5 which has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the same gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it certified again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna. If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but I am fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final conclusion based on facts and I think we should. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:52 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a minipci wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal... This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that time the system certification requirement stands. -Matt -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Email spam is just the latest way of asking for Forgiveness instead of asking for Permission. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
As far as I know, you must have a FCC sticker to be in compliance. Does
your home brew unit have a sticker?
Thanks
Mike
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote:
Ok... so back to original dilemma...
I take a XR5, the precise antenna they certified with this radio card, a
RB411 and hook it all up and use it myself within FCC RF guidelines.
Criminal or law abiding citizen...
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:47 PM
To: e...@wisp-router.com e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List
wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
My view is that once certified with a specific antenna then a system is
legal with any antenna of similar type (panel, yagi, etc.) of equal of
lesser gain. Anybody can make the decision to substitute a similar type
but lower gain antenna. I ran this by the FCC last year and they
confirmed it. Again, the original system must have already been
certified
Eje Gustafsson wrote:
Only the manufacturer listed on the certificate can make that decision.
The
rules states that antenna of similar type in same or lower gain is
certified
but it's only the manufacturer that can make that decision what is
considered similar type and there for approved to use with the unit.
This is at least the feedback I gotten from the FCC testing lab I been
working with on getting radios certified. But if the radio manufacturer
say
it's ok to use a similar antenna by a different manufacturer but not
higher
gain then what was tested the it's ok. Of course any antenna that is
actual
listed on the certificate will always be approved as long it's the
same
model.
/ Eje
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:23 PM
To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
That was some ruling passed a few years ago that really freed the
markets
up. Certify with the largest panel, omni, parabolic dish, etc. you can
get
to pass and anything in those groups is fair game.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:24 PM
To: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com; wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
I've been told personally by an FCC testing lab that I can take a XR5
which
has been tested with say a 23db panel antenna (with FCC) and use the
same
gain antenna or less for myself and would not have to have it
certified
again... They told me not to get it tested because I didn't need to
because Ubiquity already part certified it on that type antenna.
If this is an argument we will never resolve I can live with that, but
I
am
fairly sure with the resources on this list we can come to a final
conclusion based on facts and I think we should.
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:52 PM
To: sc...@brevardwireless.com sc...@brevardwireless.com, WISPA
General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
On May 12, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Scott Carullo wrote:
Eje Gustafsson says this is not the case or elsewhen I buy a
minipci
wireless card for my laptop it would be illegal...
This has been discussed at length. No matter how many times someone
makes the laptop argument it doesn't change the fact that the FCC
disagrees with that argument. Now someone could pay an attorney to
argue with the FCC and get them to clarify the situation. Until that
time the system certification requirement stands.
-Matt
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Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
Lets not forget the rules may not be the same depending on what type certification one is looking for. If Mikrotik got a part B certification for the hardware board, and MT makes the hardware board, its irrelevent where an end user buys the board, Mikrotik is responsible for the certification that they had gotten for their hardware. However, for wireless system certifications (forget technical name of type) its a different story. The software, hardware, and RF have to all get certified togeather. And it was clear their had to be a responisble party aka the manufacturer. So certifying a combination yourself would make yourself the manufacturer. Can one be, without any control of the software code writing? I would think an authroized distributor would gain Mikrotik's endorsement for gaining such support. But does the FCC require it or allow it, considering intelectual property considerations? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs dmburg...@linktechs.net To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Yes, you can not certify the radios, MT wants the distributors to build and certify them. If you build them, they won't be certified. -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Scott Carullo wrote: I'm pretty sure the FCC and the testing labs don't care who you are or where you buy your stuff... thats not what they are looking for. Example - I choose to take 4 parts (some mikrotik) and get them certified - I can Do you see this differently? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC First, you have to be a distributor of MT to be able to certify. It has to be a certified system, as well has to have all of the images, text etc on it as well. You can only get those if you are a MT distributor. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Randy Cosby wrote: Can you explain what you mean by certified then? What does that entail other than just putting together a board, antenna and radio that are fcc certified? Do you have the entire unit tested and certified, or do yo see that as not necessary? Randy Eje Gustafsson wrote: Cross roads are certified with the entire Pacific Wireless line of antennas. R52 is certified with most of those as well (if not all). You can also use XR2/5 cards in RB SBC's. There are other solutions as well. We offer some certified pre built solutions more to come. / Eje Gustafsson CTO WISP-Router, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC Old thread, but just curious where this has progressed. I've seen that JeffSoHoCo has certified gear. Is that based on the same Mikrotik program you describe here Mac? Is that information available from Mikrotik to any reseller? Randy Mac Dearman wrote: Word on the FCC certified gear is that they are working with USA based resellers to get them up to speed to offer certified gear. It's all in the paperwork at this point in time and we all know that the devil is in the paperwork. It is on its way from what I understand and should be readily available in the
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik FCC
On May 12, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Ok... so back to original dilemma... I take a XR5, the precise antenna they certified with this radio card, a RB411 and hook it all up and use it myself within FCC RF guidelines. Criminal or law abiding citizen... Neither, but you would be in violation of the FCC regulations and be subject to civil penalties. Think about this like tax law. Imagine someone makes a great case about how you can avoid taxes legally by doing a certain thing. You may believe the person and the person's reasons may seem perfectly logical. However, would it be smart to follow them? Probably not without signoff from a CPA and/or tax attorney. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik OSPF question
Subject changed to help with filters. :) Do you have both /30's in the networks tab? Look at the Neighbors tab, do you see the second router listed there? If so add the Adjacency and State columns to your view, what state does it say it's in? -Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OSPF question Well I have 1 Main Router with 2 peers on the same Eth port, I receive routes from 1, but not from the 2nd. Im using the same area for both, different networks (2 /30) All are Mt 3.23 with routing test, the only difference is that the 2 exchanging routes are rb1000, the other one is a x86 machine Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OSPF question On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 15:40 -0400, Gino Villarini wrote: Can I have several neighboors under the same interface? Yes. I have a OSPF neighboor in ether1, can I have another neighboor with the same area on the same interface? This is common for a broadcast network, actually. What is it that makes you ask? Are you seeing problems and wanting to clarify if this is a symptom of the problem? -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Today's ARIN
Butch, Arin is really easy to deal with if you stay focused to following their guidelines. If you divert from the guidelines in the slightest, it can be difficult, because their reps are only authorized to pass through submissions that meet the rules and can be justified as complying. Its simple, it met the requirement or it didn't. Faking it is hard.. Arin will give you ANY amount of IP space that is still available, that you can justify that you need. Not more. They no longer require you to renumber smaller blocks to get one larger block, and are more likely to just assign you a a small block today, and a second small block later when you justify the need for the second block. Multi-homing qualifies you to get a Class C (/24). Using Multi-home arguement is exactly what you should do, to get their ASN, and their first ClassC or greater. That is NOT enough justification to ask for more than a /24. The second justification is showing pre-existing 70% usage of IP space. When a Class C /24 is 70% used, one can ask for a /23, etc. So it is still very hard to get IP space, if you can not yet prove usage. They are NOT required to give you IP space for planned expansion. That is the most important thing to understand. The next jsutification is runumbering off your existing upstream ISP, regardless of whether they do or not. For example, if they have a /23 from their upstream 70% used, they can say they now qualify for a /22, and plan to renumber and return the /23 to their upstream within 90 days. (They do not check in 90 days, but before they give you the next allocation, they will make sure you can prove need again, and confirm that you have renumbered if that was part of your justification.)They will not usually bend on the 70% usage to prove need, when you take the path justifying IPs based on need. If you follow the previous advise your allocation will be super fast within days. The last method is to prove unique network need. That is much harder, as it is not defined what unique network need is. And it will have to be a true justifyable network need. For example, your upstream saying they wont announce anything smaller than a /22 is NOT a unique need, they'll tell you to change providers. For example, saying you serve 5 cities and prefer to have 5 class Cs, one for each city, is NOT a network need on its own. However, if you can prove that you have 5 different Transit connections (or orders for service) in 5 cities, and will run BGP in each city, it will be a justified network need, as BGP requires a minimum of class C for advertising, and each city would have different routing rules. Lastly, to get IP space, the ISP must be fully clear of any judgements from the States or Feds. For example, if any overdue income tax or property tax, or suspended license, would disqualify your applciation for IP space. My advise is only ask for what you can justiy according to the above rules. If you can't, they are not ready for their own IPs. If it cant be justified to ask for what the client wants, then the IPs can be asked for in stages. You pay per year for IP space, NOT per request, and NOT per block. It costs the same $2500 to have 32 class Cs, whether its one large /19 or eight /22s. Now the reality is... if you have small IP allocations, it could be a pain for getting them routed by your upstream. For example some tier1s like to filter out announcements smaller than /20s. However, some ISPs prefer to filter out announcements for blocks smaller than the top level block. Meaning theyll accept a /22 if that was the allocation, but not accept the two /21s inside it. Because of this, it can actually be beneficial to have two smaller blocks, that are indivividually allocated in some cases. ARIN will verify your stated IP usage. By either of the two methods you select in the application. As I understand it, you can get as small as a /22 from them if you are multi-homed That may be possible, but you still will have to justify why you need a /22 over just a /23. Part of the justification can be the number of IPs that you will need in the following 3 months, but you'll need to prove that also. Getting 70% usage of /23 justifys a /22. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:58 AM Subject: [WISPA] Today's ARIN I have a customer that will be multi-homed soon. He has asked me to help him get ready for this move. I will be handling his BGP and such, but he wants me to handle getting his IP space from ARIN as well. It has been about 5 years since I've dealt with them at all, and I know there is likely to have been some changes in the way they handle their business. As I understand it, you can get as small as a /22 from them if you are multi-homed. Are there other requirements that I am
Re: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter
So he is suggesting that existing broadband consumers foot the $7billion bill via USF broadband taxes? I'd like to see what that fee calculates to. I bet the USF tax will be higher than the cost of broadband service. Clearly not in line with reducing costs of broadband for consumers. Does anyone know how much revenue USF brings in today? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:08 AM Subject: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter Recently I saw these comments made on Twitter and I was wondering if anyone could track down some quotable sources for these. Rep Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) says that historically a $1 investment in broadband yields a $10 return. So a $7.2B investment... NTIA's Larry Irving wants to see USF funds provide $7B ANNUALLY for broadband. Says that the current $7.2 is a down payment. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter
Isn't the federal usf already 11.2 percent? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter So he is suggesting that existing broadband consumers foot the $7billion bill via USF broadband taxes? I'd like to see what that fee calculates to. I bet the USF tax will be higher than the cost of broadband service. Clearly not in line with reducing costs of broadband for consumers. Does anyone know how much revenue USF brings in today? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:08 AM Subject: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter Recently I saw these comments made on Twitter and I was wondering if anyone could track down some quotable sources for these. Rep Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) says that historically a $1 investment in broadband yields a $10 return. So a $7.2B investment... NTIA's Larry Irving wants to see USF funds provide $7B ANNUALLY for broadband. Says that the current $7.2 is a down payment. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter
At the WCA Wireless Policy Conference last week Amy Levine Legislative Counsel for the House Telecom Committee from Congressman Rick Boucher's office indicated that there will be a push to use the roughly $7.2B in unspent USF funds to fund BB service delivery in rural America -- the committee seems to be pushing hard for making broadband network build outs eligible for USF support. Others at the conference made statements such as need to fix problems in USF ... support infrastructure versus services ... get a triple play capable network built (sorry about the sketchy notes) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Olle Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 5:30 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter Isn't the federal usf already 11.2 percent? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter So he is suggesting that existing broadband consumers foot the $7billion bill via USF broadband taxes? I'd like to see what that fee calculates to. I bet the USF tax will be higher than the cost of broadband service. Clearly not in line with reducing costs of broadband for consumers. Does anyone know how much revenue USF brings in today? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:08 AM Subject: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter Recently I saw these comments made on Twitter and I was wondering if anyone could track down some quotable sources for these. Rep Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) says that historically a $1 investment in broadband yields a $10 return. So a $7.2B investment... NTIA's Larry Irving wants to see USF funds provide $7B ANNUALLY for broadband. Says that the current $7.2 is a down payment. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter
Well that is a totally different thing, using unspent USF monies for broadband. That would be great idea if. Any broadband provider would qualify for teh USF funds. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter At the WCA Wireless Policy Conference last week Amy Levine Legislative Counsel for the House Telecom Committee from Congressman Rick Boucher's office indicated that there will be a push to use the roughly $7.2B in unspent USF funds to fund BB service delivery in rural America -- the committee seems to be pushing hard for making broadband network build outs eligible for USF support. Others at the conference made statements such as need to fix problems in USF ... support infrastructure versus services ... get a triple play capable network built (sorry about the sketchy notes) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Olle Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 5:30 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter Isn't the federal usf already 11.2 percent? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter So he is suggesting that existing broadband consumers foot the $7billion bill via USF broadband taxes? I'd like to see what that fee calculates to. I bet the USF tax will be higher than the cost of broadband service. Clearly not in line with reducing costs of broadband for consumers. Does anyone know how much revenue USF brings in today? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:08 AM Subject: [WISPA] As seen on Twitter Recently I saw these comments made on Twitter and I was wondering if anyone could track down some quotable sources for these. Rep Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) says that historically a $1 investment in broadband yields a $10 return. So a $7.2B investment... NTIA's Larry Irving wants to see USF funds provide $7B ANNUALLY for broadband. Says that the current $7.2 is a down payment. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
