Nice!
On Sun, 27 Mar 2022, 11:46 am Patrick Wacher, wrote:
> https://shop.submerge.com/
>
> P.
>
https://shop.submerge.com/
P.
all,
> I know this has probably been covered but what has happenned to the
> submerge website? And UR website? Both been inactive for years now. Is UR
> no more? What was there last release?
> Ed612313
>
ooh, love that. first track sounds like the bassline on octave one's 'through
darkness' (my favorite octave one track).
can't wait to listen to those new ur releases in full and that line-up for
memorial day weekend from it looks great: shake, claude and dan together 🙂
jURren
_
Wow…
Dream line up.
> On 23 Feb 2022, at 4:13 PM, Patrick Wacher wrote:
>
> Mana de Fuego
at has happenned to the
submerge website? And UR website? Both been inactive for years now. Is UR
no more? What was there last release?
Ed612313
t; all three records sound good to me. Glad to see there's new material in
>>> the pipeline!
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 8:31 PM Patrick Wacher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Someone was listening!
>>>>
>>>> https://rubadub.co.uk/produc
e records sound good to me. Glad to see there's new material in
>>> the pipeline!
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 8:31 PM Patrick Wacher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Someone was listening!
>>>>
>>>> https://rubadub.co.uk/products/the
e-sunken-treasure-ep
>>>
>>> Thanks DG for the tip!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:52 PM Edvard Thomson
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I know this has probably been covered but what has happenned to the
>>>> submerge website? And UR website? Both been inactive for years now. Is UR
>>>> no more? What was there last release?
>>>> Ed612313
>>>>
>>>
ks DG for the tip!
On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:52 PM Edvard Thomson
mailto:ed313...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,
I know this has probably been covered but what has happenned to the submerge
website? And UR website? Both been inactive for years now. Is UR no more? What
was there last release?
Ed612313
cts/the-sunken-treasure-ep
>>
>> Thanks DG for the tip!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:52 PM Edvard Thomson
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I know this has probably been covered but what has happenned to the
>>> submerge website? And UR website? Both been inactive for years now. Is UR
>>> no more? What was there last release?
>>> Ed612313
>>>
>>
28, 2022 at 2:52 PM Edvard Thomson
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > I know this has probably been covered but what has happenned to the
> > > > > submerge website? And UR website? Both been inactive for years now.
> > > > > Is UR no more? What was there last release?
> > > > > Ed612313
an 28, 2022 at 2:52 PM Edvard Thomson wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I know this has probably been covered but what has happenned to the
>> submerge website? And UR website? Both been inactive for years now. Is UR
>> no more? What was there last release?
>> Ed612313
>>
>
Someone was listening!
https://rubadub.co.uk/products/the-sunken-treasure-ep
Thanks DG for the tip!
On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:52 PM Edvard Thomson wrote:
> Hi all,
> I know this has probably been covered but what has happenned to the
> submerge website? And UR website? Both been ina
022, at 4:52 PM, Edvard Thomson wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I know this has probably been covered but what has happenned to the submerge
> website? And UR website? Both been inactive for years now. Is UR no more?
> What was there last release?
> Ed612313
Hi all,
I know this has probably been covered but what has happenned to the
submerge website? And UR website? Both been inactive for years now. Is UR
no more? What was there last release?
Ed612313
Hello all
There was a weekly "net cast" called "Submerge, The Show" on the internet in
1998. I tuned in every week for a while, and there were interviews with Keith
Tucker and Thomas Barnett.
I found this website which has a bit more info confirming the existence
"No amount of publicity, hype or fashion can [...] purchase a child of
the underground."
Great quote!
{}0+>|
Fred Heutte wrote:
Found this on the Submerge site . . . with a shout out to Ron
Murphy as you'll see ... [with edits to avoid the 313 Filter G####]
Subm
FOR REAL!
DMC
ps: hyperreal dropped me out twice by not Xing out the bad words on release
date...
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: 21.01.08 19:07:43
> An: 313@hyperreal.org
> Betreff: Re: (313) Submerge on vinyl, Ron Murphy and much more
RIGHT ON!!!
M.
On Sun, January 20, 2008 3:23 am, Fred Heutte wrote:
> Found this on the Submerge site . . . with a shout out to Ron
> Murphy as you'll see ... [with edits to avoid the 313 Filter G####]
>
> Submerge would like to sincerely thank everybody for yet
>
thats pretty great. great music always deserves vinyl. beatport cant
be blamed for the tastes of the young types these days.
On 1/20/08, Fred Heutte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Found this on the Submerge site . . . with a shout out to Ron
> Murphy as you'll see ... [with edits
Found this on the Submerge site . . . with a shout out to Ron
Murphy as you'll see ... [with edits to avoid the 313 Filter G]
Submerge would like to sincerely thank everybody for yet
another year of underground music! Is vinyl dead?Is Detroit
dead? Well according to all o
Yes we're looking for Demos
This new label has been started to give some new artists a chance to be heard
without just giving away their music like other web-labels. We plan to take a
new direction on the whole game. We are not going to have a restricted format.
We're looking for good music and
<313@hyperreal.org>
Subject: (313) Friday mix from Submerge
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:32:03 -0700
>This just in from their newsletter:
>
>
>http://submergecom.siteprotect.net/mp3clips/citystreetlife/pedeSTRAINpt1.mp3
>
>
>Enjoy!
<313@hyperreal.org>
Subject: (313) Friday mix from Submerge
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:32:03 -0700
>This just in from their newsletter:
>
>
>http://submergecom.siteprotect.net/mp3clips/citystreetlife/pedeSTRAINpt1.mp3
>
>
>Enjoy!
This just in from their newsletter:
http://submergecom.siteprotect.net/mp3clips/citystreetlife/pedeSTRAINpt1.mp3
Enjoy!
There are three new mixes available in the download section of
http://www.detroitdigitalvinyl.com/ . The tracklists alone look
great. There is a mix from The Plan, one from Pacou, and two others
by other djs.
Wojtek
It's just the temp setup while we work on getting the technology in
order. Wanted to make sure they got the word out quickly so they can
start on the second and third round of interviews. There is RSS
syndication so you can easily keep tabs on the new shows as they come
out. :)
-Angie
On 9/19/0
oh, that wasn't there before! yaay!
On Sep 19, 2006, at 15:26, The Archiver wrote:
Hey fnx,
By the way there is a RSS Feed available to tell you when its
updated...
just go to the page and subscribe to the feed...
--
matt kane's brain
http://hydrogenproject.com
aim -> mkbatwerk
[EMAIL P
On Sep 19, 2006, at 15:08, The Archiver wrote:
It's not really a podcast it's a flash mp3 player.
Its pretty easy to download the files, if you know how to!
That's fine, but the whole point of a podcast is that you can set
your software to automatically download new episodes so you don't
]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: (313) Submerge Podcast Is Online
It's not really a podcast it's a flash mp3 player.
Its pretty easy to download the files, if you know how to!
Maybe Submerge can post the links.
The Ron Murphy show is pretty cool!!!
The Archiver
http://thear
It's not really a podcast it's a flash mp3 player.
Its pretty easy to download the files, if you know how to!
Maybe Submerge can post the links.
The Ron Murphy show is pretty cool!!!
The Archiver
http://thearchiver.net
http://myspace.com/archiver
PS Apologies if you get this
On Tue, September 19, 2006 15:26, Cliff Thomas wrote:
Now the time has come for us to wage Electronic
> Warfare upon the media world and place our own stamp upon the history of
> this music and bring light upon the masses. Get ready.
- The
> Plan
http://www.detroitdigitalvinyl.com/sub
Our sole purpose is to shed light on electronic music from and associated with Detroit. We feel there have been many interviews done by these artists all over the world where the interviewer have asked questions that only touch the surface of what the artist has to offer and have to say. There is n
just a follow-up...Bridgette is the best! had to be a little patient to get a
response, but she was sooo nice, helpful, explanatory...it sounds like the few
little unfortunate glitches/shortcomings that mucked up my order will probably
result in a couple helpful changes to the submerge site
there are Detroit lovers in Belgrade, Serbia too :)
regards
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006, kent williams wrote:
I've not really picked thru the subscriber list to see where people
are writing from, but there are subscribers from all over the world.
At this point Ljubljana is a bigger techno town in ter
I've not really picked thru the subscriber list to see where people
are writing from, but there are subscribers from all over the world.
At this point Ljubljana is a bigger techno town in terms of audience
and 'scene' than anywhere in the US, with the possible exception of
Detroit. When I was in
Seconded.
I also like all the extra goodies they throw in the box - flyers,
stickers, scrunched up pages from detroit newspapers for packing. Very
nice touches.
>>> Fred Heutte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 14/09/2006 11:04 am >>>
Yes, I've heard that Submerge has a direct con
Yes, I've heard that Submerge has a direct connection with Mars :)
This is a good moment to express my own appreciation to Submerge,
UR and everyone involved. This is a major anchor to the techno and
independent music community worldwide, and the dedication to strong
customer service is
; From: Vasya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 313@hyperreal.org
> Subject: Re: (313) The joy of ordering from Submerge?!
> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 01:27:28 +0400
>
> I wish to order some things @ Submerge but I wonder if they ship their
> stuff to Russia and how long will i
13@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) The joy of ordering from Submerge?!
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 01:27:28 +0400
I wish to order some things @ Submerge but I wonder if they ship their
stuff to Russia and how long will it take. Thay have some great records
for sure.
vasya
kent williams wrote:
>
I wish to order some things @ Submerge but I wonder if they ship their
stuff to Russia and how long will it take. Thay have some great records
for sure.
vasya
kent williams wrote:
Maybe this is too obvious to mention, but mail-ordering from Submerge
is great! Bridgette Banks held some
kent williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 5:15 PM
To: list 313
Subject: (313) The joy of ordering from Submerge?!
Maybe this is too obvious to mention, but mail-ordering from Submerge is
great! Bridgette Banks held some records for me ever since DEMF, and
e-mail
Maybe this is too obvious to mention, but mail-ordering from Submerge
is great! Bridgette Banks held some records for me ever since DEMF,
and e-mailed me to ask if I still wanted them -- 13 weeks later. I
called in with my credit card number, and they went out the same day.
And they have pretty
Hi,
This is a message from List member Mark Cullen
"..sorry i seem to keep getting bounced from the mailing list...maybe
you could post this for me, if you think it relevant..Been thinking of
ordering great list btw people, a good read. ofunk feat. Mr. De and
Galaxy 2 Galaxy.."
http://www.h
http://www.submerge.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?
Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DECESS6&Category_Code=newtechno
Seeing as how this will never get a proper US release, it's a
perfect .mp3 candidate.
How about it, Submerge?
--
Ian
On Feb 1, 2006, at 1:24 AM, Andrew Jackson wrote:
Not sure if this has been posted before but this looks like a sweet
release..
http://www.undergroundgallery.jp/submerg
Not sure if this has been posted before but this looks like a sweet
release..
http://www.undergroundgallery.jp/submergelive/index.html
--
Second Prize.
"The Vibrations are different here". - Sun Ra
2006 3:40 PM
>To: 313@hyperreal.org
>Subject: (313) any stores besides Submerge stocking IF2?
>
>So I am jonesing for my UR fix and Submerge says they're out of stock on
>the Interstellar Fugitives 2 CD. Are there any other US shops carrying it?
>
>-bee pee
>
>
So I am jonesing for my UR fix and Submerge says they're out of stock on
the Interstellar Fugitives 2 CD. Are there any other US shops carrying it?
-bee pee
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
infact, I struggle to understand the whole
underground/overground thing to
be honest.
I think its something to do with Wimbledon and
Wombling free Alex but dont quote me on that ;-)
(people outside the UK probobly wont get this -
um, didn't Mike first throw these guys out of the Submerge offices
because this was going to be a SONY Playstation game
wait, it's been long enough -- no one remembers all that Jaguar
business.
and they got rid of that Rolando fella.
ok, cool.
>For example, we'll make it
>possible for you to do things like hit a jump and land on an elevated
>train track, then as you continue to race you might have the train
>coming up behind you so you have to quickly find a stairwell to drive
down.
LOL - sure ain't the Detroit I've been to. If you
cc
Subject
Re: (313) via FREEP. Detroit,
videogame
Hi Kent, that was a great post.
"Being
underground is forming interconnected communities of people where the
music and the musicians have unmediated access to their audience."
So, with this in mind, I still don't see where selling your music as a
product isn't underground, also maybe money from
So, here's my take on things:
For better or worse, we live in a capitalist society. The way things
are going, the whole world will soon be completely capitalist -- the
few holdouts, like North Korea, and Cuba, aren't going to last in
their current form for another generation. The deed is already
On Feb 25, 2005, at 8:21 AM, David Beattie wrote:
(people outside the UK probobly wont get this - sorry)
That's alright. This list has been like that for months.
--
Ian
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> infact, I struggle to understand the whole
> underground/overground thing to
> be honest.
>
I think its something to do with Wimbledon and
Wombling free Alex but dont quote me on that ;-)
(people outside the UK probobly wont get this - sorry)
Cheers
BT
""Why is it so important to stay underground?
It's important for Underground Resistance to stay underground because I
think it provides inspiration for others around the world to start
organisations and not be controlled by the programmers. I can hear in
the music over the last three years that o
On Fri, 2005-02-25 at 10:53 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Ok.
>
> I know this is probably going to start a row, but, hey ho, its Friday.
>
> ""The founder of Rockstar Games ... came here when Mike Banks was working
> on construction of the Submerge building.
Ok.
I know this is probably going to start a row, but, hey ho, its Friday.
""The founder of Rockstar Games ... came here when Mike Banks was working
on construction of the Submerge building. And basically, Mike Banks is
not really down for commercial exploitation of his music whatsoe
ets at 100
m.p.h. -- and the attention to detail in its cityscapes. Rockstar reps
spent some quality time in Detroit getting the look and feel of the city
and even consulted with top members of Submerge, a Detroit-based company
that is known worldwide for producing and distributing electron
>From the site:
MESSAGE FROM MAD MIKE::
Hello this is Mad Mike co-owner of Submerge mgmt. We appreciate your
patience as we have had the site down the past couple of weeks. During
the next few weeks, we also ask for your understanding and input as we
mold the new site for functionality. In
store site is now down 'for maintenance'
Agreed. Hopefully things will evolve to a much more user-friendly state.
I went looking for UR-3001, 3002, the battlepacks, and just floundered. Anyone
know if these are for sale yet?
Nick
No time to panic. This isn't the first web redesign that swerved
on launch. Everyone here knows how much attention the
Submerge crew pays to details. I bet they'll figure out the
reaction right away and make adjustments -- but as those of
you who have done web sites know, it's n
Yo Yo Yo i said Rewind! Rewnd!!!
Lets go back to 1997!
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <313@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: (313) WTF happened to Submerge?!?!?!?
>
> That is f*ckin
That is what you noticed? I thought this is way interesting:
http://www.submergerecordings.com/
Jay! Galaxy 2 Galaxy album gimme, gimme, gimme!
Los Hermanos album gimme, gimme, gimme!
Mr. De' album gimme, gimme, gimme!
Good to see Orlando Voorn and Keith Tucker up there to...
(313) WTF happened to
Please respond to Submerge?!?!?!?
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: vrijdag 7 januari 2005 19:02
Aan: 313@hyperreal.org
Onderwerp: (313) WTF happened to Submerge?!?!?!?
its been down a couple days, now its finally back up with what
appears to be
the worst store redesign of all time. ill cry if this is really the
future
appened to Submerge?!?!?!?
its been down a couple days, now its finally back up with what
appears to be
the worst store redesign of all time. ill cry if this is really the
future
of submerge's online shop!
Oh my god... I have to agree... I did not even dare to start
browsing...
Paz
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: vrijdag 7 januari 2005 19:02
Aan: 313@hyperreal.org
Onderwerp: (313) WTF happened to Submerge?!?!?!?
its been down a couple
Oh my god... I have to agree... I did not even dare to start browsing...
Paz
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: vrijdag 7 januari 2005 19:02
Aan: 313@hyperreal.org
Onderwerp: (313) WTF happened to Submerge?!?!?!?
its been down a
its been down a couple days, now its finally back up with what
appears to be the worst store redesign of all time. ill cry if
this is really the future of submerge's online shop!
tom
andythepooh.com
for mature judgement and sometimes aspire to piracy or
gunfighting, this is not necessarily a sign of success. **
> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Dust [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 2:14 PM
> To: 313@hyperreal.org
> Subject: (313) Su
http://www.submerge.com/2004/party.gif
ir.lucasowens.com/audio/tna006-aa2.ram
http://technoir.lucasowens.com/audio/tna006-aa3.ram
The CD is a 15 track album with many tunes not on the vinyl. This
will be
out when TNA-006 is released.
Promos available at submerge.. there aren't that many copies
available
though, so you snooze you lose
thought some peeps might be interested:
http://www.submerge.com/shoppingcart/salepage.php
Red Planet 1 for $2.99. Sounds alright to me.
_
- End of message text
This e-mail is sent by the abo
oly system, but until that threshold is crossed,
increasing selection and sales is the best way to do business.
anyways i'm guessing planet-x or somebody like that has 10+ times the market
share of submerge, i think the paranoia is a bit wrong headed.
business is business my main co
i don't think anyone is refutting submerge's expansion.
merely pointing out the dangerous consumer habits of declarng them or
anyone the new 'one-stop'
it's consumers who bear the responsibility- not the bussinesses
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, J.T. wrote:
> submerge is
submerge is not distributing clone stuff. it merely carries it in s.i.d.
first of all this is not consolidation, it's expansion. it's one more place in
the usa that carries clone stuff. more copies in circulation in the usa. this
is a good thing. it is increasing competition not elim
Regarding:
>SID in detroit www.submerge.com (need to make an appointment)
during the festival YOU DO NOT NEED TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT
straight from Submerge mailing list
This week we want to let you know about events sponsored by
Submerge during the Movement Festival Weekend 2
so they took forever to sell cos americans rarely appreciate the
homeproduced music that's under their nose.
it takes europeans to spot how good this stuff is
(ok, so the above is tongue in cheek. there is some element of truth in
it though)
robin...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
we'll be h
>> we'll be here 11-7pm, then we're going to the festival.
> S.I.D tracks??? those have been out of print for years. they took
> forever to sell out when they were around. now, people always ask for
> them. it's funny how humans always want something more when it's hard
> to get. End Quote
t the misinformation. I'll shut up now.
Quest
-Original Message-
From: Sean Creen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 20 May 2004 18:30
To: quest pond; Patrick Wacher; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) S.I.D Shop / Submerge
>Yes but sweat electric is also in
>Yes but sweat electric is also in electro-funk records
It is?! When did that come out?
Yes but sweat electric is also in electro-funk records so its no loss to
miss out on this one right?
Quest
-Original Message-
From: Patrick Wacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 20 May 2004 07:16
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) S.I.D Shop / Submerge
Sweat
well i think the original S.I.D series came out in 98, and were re-pressed
in 2000 for the first DEMF. I got #1-#5 in 2000 then i got #6 and #7 in
2001. In 2002 i got the last copy of the drexciya one and the scan 7 one
cause i wanted doubles of it. Frankie told me they smashed the plates to
all of
Sweat Electric!
Peace,
Patrick.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 20 May 2004 2:11 AM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: (313) S.I.D Shop / Submerge
You know the S.I.D shop in Detroit?
I presume some people on here shop there.
Well, does
By name of John Patterson:
Begin forwarded message:
From: John Patterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 19 mei 2004 19:37:36 GMT+02:00
To: kj at technotourist dot org <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: (313) S.I.D Shop / Submerge
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Just talked to Dex over at Su
t;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <313@hyperreal.org>
Sent: 19 May 2004 17:10
Subject: (313) S.I.D Shop / Submerge
> You know the S.I.D shop in Detroit?
>
> I presume some people on here shop there.
> Well, does anyone know if it's open during the Movement Festival?
>
> A mate is
If anybody on the list has any of the SID 12's they would be willing to
sell me, i'd pay heavy for it. I thankfully have the drexciya one an
the UR radio-active one.
same goes for those 'z' tracks. seriously. I love UR electro and will
sell pay anything close to a kidney to come up one those
On 19-mei-04, at 18:21, robin wrote:
does anyone know if this is an up to date list of releases?
http://www.discogs.com/label/Somewhere_In_Detroit
Yeah it is, there are only 7 SID releases. The label is no more, get
your investments in the Local 3000 records now, it is more or less 'the
-Original Message-
From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 20 May 2004 02:13
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) S.I.D Shop / Submerge
well no, you need to make an appointment.
i think we've got that sorted out tho.
robin...
Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)
>Not sure on the rules - I picked up SID 7 by Mad Mike
>the other week on ebay and while it is good,
>considering the price these things go for over here on
>ebay I dont think its that much better (if any) than
>other UR stuff
Well, I was kind of thinking that. Which is why I thought I could chuc
does anyone know if this is an up to date list of releases?
http://www.discogs.com/label/Somewhere_In_Detroit
ta
robin...
Not sure on the rules - I picked up SID 7 by Mad Mike
the other week on ebay and while it is good,
considering the price these things go for over here on
ebay I dont think its that much better (if any) than
other UR stuff
Having said that I hear the Scan 7 one comes highly
recommended - not sure y
>> I don't know if you can just "turn up" and buy them
how come?
_
- End of message text
This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
beh
well no, you need to make an appointment.
i think we've got that sorted out tho.
robin...
Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) wrote:
I don't know if you can just "turn up" and buy them
I don't know if you can just "turn up" and buy them
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 May 2004 5:11
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: (313) S.I.D Shop / Submerge
You know the S.I.D shop in Detroit?
I presume some people on here s
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