Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 05:14, Ian Kelly wrote: It categorizes adopted proposals as spam, rejected proposals as non-spam, and votes against spam? -root Bingo!

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 04:16, Ed Murphy wrote: I need to check the exact details of Goethe's and BobTHJ's sell tickets. I have the votes as 15F / 16A without those. Will take care of it later tonight. Haha. It is all for naught. ais523 was trying to continue eir long-running streak of winning

DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes voting

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 13:32, Bayes wrote: Bayes votes as follows: 5732 FORx2 5733 AGAINSTx2 -- bayes 2008-10-01 13:10:18 +0100 IT WORKS!! The machine works!! Although I'm kind of surprised it agreed with my titles... Really, neither of them is a good proposal. HOWEVER. That's irrelevant. It

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes

2008-10-01 Thread comex
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It categorizes adopted proposals as spam, rejected proposals as non-spam, and votes against spam? The other way around. It votes FOR stuff like adopted proposals.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 15:10, comex wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It categorizes adopted proposals as spam, rejected proposals as non-spam, and votes against spam? The other way around. It votes FOR stuff like adopted proposals. Oh. Yeah.

DIS: Re: BUS: late reports

2008-10-01 Thread Roger Hicks
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I intend, with 2 support, to initiate a criminal CFJ alleging that BobTHJ violated Rule 2143 by failing to publish a Scorekeepor's Report last week (eir last report was published on 11 Sept.) I'm guilty here (though I

DIS: RE: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
Taral wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 4:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Proposal 5707 has been adopted, awarding a win to ais523. You owe me 8 VP. :P Yep, I'll transfer it to you later today or tomorrow once it's generally established that the adoption worked. Unfortunately, I'm having quite

Re: DIS: RE: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 15:50, Alexander Smith wrote: Also, I did send the deputisation for the monster for the Assessor to the lists; but I had to do it from a different account and it seemed not to get through. I have proof of having sent the message, and I'll post it to a-b along with all the

DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Geoffrey Spear Sent: Wed 01/10/2008 13:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707 On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Charles Reiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I intend, with 2 support, to make the decision

RE: DIS: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
That isn't a miswording, I sent the message but I had to send it from a different address, and it seems not to have arrived. H. Distributor Taral, can you check a-o to see if something got stuck there? Note that it's worth 8VP to you, quite possibly, as arguably if my deputisation doesn't

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fails, the decision in question didn't exist when woggle attempted to democratise it, so eir action failed due to not clearly specifying what it was

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 17:07, Alexander Smith wrote: That isn't a miswording, I sent the message but I had to send it from a different address, and it seems not to have arrived. H. Distributor Taral, can you check a-o to see if something got stuck there? Note that it's worth 8VP to you, quite

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
Wooble wrote: How much clearer could it be than specifying the exact ID number of the proposal it intended to democritize? The intent is to democratise a decision, not a proposal. The decision in question didn't exist, so there is no way woggle can have referred to it. -- ais523 winmail.dat

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Charles Reiss
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 09:26, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wooble wrote: How much clearer could it be than specifying the exact ID number of the proposal it intended to democritize? The intent is to democratise a decision, not a proposal. The decision in question didn't exist,

DIS: Re: BUS: AAA - Secretary of Agriculture Report

2008-10-01 Thread Roger Hicks
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 00:02, Ben Caplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have 54 chits. If the following series of actions would otherwise fail as a whole, then I take none of them. { I deposit 7 1 crops, 4 3 crops, 5 7 crops, 7 8 crops, and 11 9 crops for 311 chits. This brings me to a total

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
Well, I didn't say which one. Also, I don't read SELL (5VP) like that at all. The obvious, and only equitable meaning, is that BobTHJ filed a sell ticket for 5VP, and then voted 5 times as required by the ticket; SELL (5VP) is a vote to endorse a player who pays 5VP, and multiplying that by 5

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I didn't say which one. Also, I don't read SELL (5VP) like that at all. The obvious, and only equitable meaning, is that BobTHJ filed a sell ticket for 5VP, and then voted 5 times as required by the ticket; SELL

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
root wrote: The actual wording of the contract does not agree with you. A vote of SELL(X - Y) on an Agoran decision is equivalent to posting a Sell Ticket with a cost of X and voting to endorse the filler of that ticket 5 votes of SELL(X - Y), then, is plainly equivalent to posting 5

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: root wrote: The actual wording of the contract does not agree with you. A vote of SELL(X - Y) on an Agoran decision is equivalent to posting a Sell Ticket with a cost of X and voting to endorse the filler of that

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
root: FOO x 3 is our standard shorthand for casting three votes of FOO, not for casting a single vote of FOO x 3. Yes, but that doesn't help tell our two situations apart, as it doesn't explain whether FOO is expanded before or after the multiplication. As a result, your vote probably fails

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: root: FOO x 3 is our standard shorthand for casting three votes of FOO, not for casting a single vote of FOO x 3. Yes, but that doesn't help tell our two situations apart, as it doesn't explain whether FOO is expanded

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Roger Hicks
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:24, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: root: FOO x 3 is our standard shorthand for casting three votes of FOO, not for casting a single vote of FOO x 3. Yes, but that doesn't help tell our two situations apart, as it doesn't explain whether FOO is expanded

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Roger Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, but that doesn't help tell our two situations apart, as it doesn't explain whether FOO is expanded before or after the multiplication. As a result, your vote probably fails altogether due to the ambiguity, as does

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
root: To put it in algebraic terms, FOO expands to a vote. The multiplication multiplies the number of votes. I don't see what's ambiguous about that. The fact that FOO might not be a constant. It's ambiguous whether you're multiplying the result of the expansion of one mention of FOO, or if

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Ian Kelly wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fails, the decision in question didn't exist when woggle attempted to democratise it, so eir action failed due

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-10-01 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 17:07, Alexander Smith wrote: That isn't a miswording, I sent the message but I had to send it from a different address, and it seems not to have arrived. H. Distributor Taral, can you check a-o to see if something got stuck there?

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread comex
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Er, I'm afraid I don't see the relevance. If multiple tickets were created, filling one would be sufficient to require the voter to vote to eir limit. If two such tickets were filled with different options, e'd be in trouble. --

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ambiguity is in whether the SELL(5VP) or the x5 is expanded first. You seem to think the x5 is expanded first, but I still can't see any evidence for this view. VOTE x 5 is, by game custom, shorthand for I perform

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: root: To put it in algebraic terms, FOO expands to a vote. The multiplication multiplies the number of votes. I don't see what's ambiguous about that. The fact that FOO might not be a constant. It's ambiguous whether

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Ian Kelly wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: root: FOO x 3 is our standard shorthand for casting three votes of FOO, not for casting a single vote of FOO x 3. Yes, but that doesn't help tell our two situations apart, as it

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
root wrote: It's not a macro. The agreement clearly refers to SELL(5VP) as being a conditional vote. In that case, it has to be able to /retroactively/ create a sell ticket at the time the voting period ends. Does the act of casting the vote create a sell ticket? Voting and creating sell

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Contracts aren't algebra. Perhaps we should hear from BobTHJ about intent. -G. I realize that. I was only casting it that way because ais523 was insisting on interpreting the vote as an algebraic expression to be parsed.

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Roger Hicks
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:50, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Contracts aren't algebra. Perhaps we should hear from BobTHJ about intent. -G. FWIW my intent was to sell all 5 of my votes for a total of 5VP. BobTHJ

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SELL(5VP) does two things: it creates a sell ticket, and it casts a vote. Your argument, that SELL (5VP) is a conditional vote, would create the sell ticket at the time the proposal is resolved, which is clearly absurd.

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
root: No, my argument is that it's a conditional vote that, per the contract, creates a sell ticket when cast. Well my argument is that as many people put a different interpretation on it, you can't claim that you are /unambiguously/ correct; BobTHJ and I both went with a different, entirely

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well my argument is that as many people put a different interpretation on it, you can't claim that you are /unambiguously/ correct; BobTHJ and I both went with a different, entirely reasonable, interpretation of the

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
root: False dilemma. It's also possible that your interpretation is wrong, in which case the proposal fails. At least two people came up with that interpretation in good faith. It certainly isn't unambiguously wrong. -- ais523 winmail.dat

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: root: False dilemma. It's also possible that your interpretation is wrong, in which case the proposal fails. At least two people came up with that interpretation in good faith. It certainly isn't unambiguously wrong.

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 19:06, Bayes wrote: I submit the following proposal, titled None the (AI=1): {{{ Was only meant to send once, sorry.

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Roger Hicks wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:50, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Contracts aren't algebra. Perhaps we should hear from BobTHJ about intent. -G. FWIW my intent was to sell all 5 of my votes for a total of 5VP. BobTHJ If the two parties (ais523

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
Goethe: In this case of disagreement between parties (root vs. ais523) then you have to go to strict impartial logical interpretation etc. I thought you were a fan of equity? Besides, this is a case where a dispute in the meaning of a contract affects something that should be determined

DIS: Re: BUS: RE: another CFJ on the vote market

2008-10-01 Thread Charles Reiss
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:19, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wooble wrote: I CFJ on the following statements, barring ais523: I CFJ on the following statement, barring root: A vote that relies on terminology defined in a public contract satisfies R683(c)'s requirement to clearly

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 19:05, Bayes wrote: I submit the following proposal, titled No spring ii office and (AI=1): {{{ If proposal 5111 was adopted, amend rule 1871 by adding the following information: with this text: the sum of the source and destination are the nominees, quorum is 1/2

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Alexander Smith wrote: Goethe: In this case of disagreement between parties (root vs. ais523) then you have to go to strict impartial logical interpretation etc. I thought you were a fan of equity? Besides, this is a case where a dispute in the meaning of a contract

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 19:05, Bayes wrote: I submit the following proposal, titled No spring ii office and (AI=1): {{{ If proposal 5111 was adopted, amend rule 1871 by adding the following information: with this text: the sum of the source and

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
CoE: The publisher of the above CoE is not the Assessor. (The assessor didn't publish the original document, so e can't usefully deny CoEs on it anyways.) I don't think that's a genuine CoE (it's not obvious what it's referring to), but the document was published by the Monster deputising for

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Charles Reiss
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 12:41, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CoE: The publisher of the above CoE is not the Assessor. (The assessor didn't publish the original document, so e can't usefully deny CoEs on it anyways.) I don't think that's a genuine CoE (it's not obvious what it's

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ed Murphy
root wrote: BobTHJ's exact vote was SELL(5VP) x5. This is five sell tickets, each corresponding to a single vote, not one sell ticket corresponding to five votes. However, ais523 only filled one of these tickets: I fill BobTHJ's open sell ticket on proposal 5707, causing em to endorse me

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Ed Murphy wrote: Especially with democratization in play, root's vote is unambiguous: SELL (5 VP - AGAINST) x 3, unbought, thus (due to democratization) a single AGAINST. That's the last thing it is given a collection of (some fairly disinterested) parties argue for

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Ed Murphy
tusho wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 19:05, Bayes wrote: I submit the following proposal, titled No spring ii office and (AI=1): {{{ If proposal 5111 was adopted, amend rule 1871 by adding the following information: with this text: the sum of the source and destination are the nominees,

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 20:54, Ed Murphy wrote: Make it a bit more grammar-specific and I'll support it for Mad Scientist. Heh, it wouldn't be able to do Monsterization atm, but I could definitely write one - detecting nouns shouldn't be too hard.

DIS: RE: Re: BUS: Another reason those SELL votes might not have counted

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
Wooble wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The text of the contract that defined the options was not published during the voting period, and rule 2172 does not make an allowance for text published /before/ the voting period. BobTHJ published

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-10-01 Thread Ben Caplan
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 12:53:00 pm Geoffrey Spear wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: Hold on here. Now we get to the point where a legitimate communication is held up. Does this violate R101 participation rights? -Goethe On the other hand, in a case where

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Ben Caplan
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 03:20:04 pm Elliott Hird wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 20:54, Ed Murphy wrote: Make it a bit more grammar-specific and I'll support it for Mad Scientist. Heh, it wouldn't be able to do Monsterization atm, but I could definitely write one - detecting nouns shouldn't

DIS: Re: BUS: RE: [Assessor] Voting results for Proposal 5707

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Ed Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ais523 wrote: Murphy: In any case, I deny this CoE (to clear up my obligation to respond to it), and will let the relevant CFJ take care of it from here. I publically state that Murphy's attempt to resolve proposal 5707 is

DIS: RE: BUS: Another reason those SELL votes might not have counted

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
Murphy wrote: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:21:26 -0700 Voting period of Proposal 5707 begins Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:13:41 -0600 Vote Market text published Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:21:26 -0700 Voting period of Proposal 5707 ends Yep, I got the timing wrong, and I've already admitted my mistake. (That's

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Another reason those SELL votes might not have counted

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep, I got the timing wrong, and I've already admitted my mistake. (That's during or close to the period of time during which emails to [EMAIL PROTECTED] got held up for random lengths of time and arrived in random

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 22:35, Ben Caplan wrote: I believe it was decided that the most natural Monsterization of judgment was Monsteredict. Can you write a script to make that kind of analysis? Did I say it'd produce the most natural monsterization all the time?

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:02, Bayes wrote: I submit the following proposal, titled Ordinary for a of ff (AI=1): {{{ Repeal rule 2142 Modify Rule 2138, replace: c) A term explicitly defined by that chamber.

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: take away the monster's deputy badge

2008-10-01 Thread Ed Murphy
Pavitra wrote: On Wednesday 01 October 2008 02:26:17 pm Geoffrey Spear wrote: I submit the following Proposal entitled No More Monster Deputy: In Rule 2193, remove: Any Monster (a deputy) CAN perform an action as if e held a particular office (deputise for that office) if:

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: take away the monster's deputy badge

2008-10-01 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Ben Caplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any player (a deputy) CAN perform an action as if e held a Uh, you removed Monster; this would just allow *anyone* to deputise without announcing intent.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Elliott Hird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It isn't usually meant to submit this fast, but comex fixed it so that the proposals were shorter, so this is an example. What exactly is the goal of this? None of these proposals are anything that we might actually consider

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Another reason those SELL votes might not have counted

2008-10-01 Thread Ed Murphy
ais523 wrote: Yep, I got the timing wrong, and I've already admitted my mistake. (That's during or close to the period of time during which emails to [EMAIL PROTECTED] got held up for random lengths of time and arrived in random order.) And that's what happens on my end when (as you probably

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:09, Ian Kelly wrote: What exactly is the goal of this? None of these proposals are anything that we might actually consider adopting. -root Bayes is a Fully Mechanical Automation of Gamular Playing, Striving to Play in As Many Forms As Possible, Regardless of Skill

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread comex
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What exactly is the goal of this? None of these proposals are anything that we might actually consider adopting. I would vote to repeal Rule 2142... -- hopefully minor evil

RE: DIS: RE: BUS: Another reason those SELL votes might not have counted

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
Murphy wrote: I don't see why not. It seems functionally equivalent to saying I intend to vote on this later, and then later voting normally (including with a defined-at-the-same-time condition). Just wait until you see the definition of TETRAHEDRON, then you might change your mind. --

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Another reason those SELL votes might not have counted

2008-10-01 Thread comex
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Ed Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see why not. It seems functionally equivalent to saying I intend to vote on this later, and then later voting normally (including with a defined-at-the-same-time condition). Not if the definition comes after the end of

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:09, Ian Kelly wrote: What exactly is the goal of this? None of these proposals are anything that we might actually consider adopting. Bayes is a Fully Mechanical Automation of Gamular Playing, Striving to Play in As Many Forms As

RE: Re: DIS: RE: RE: Distribution of proposals 5732-5733

2008-10-01 Thread Alexander Smith
tusho wrote: I act on behalf of ais523 to cause ais523 to retract any previous votes on proposal 5733 and vote FORx2 it. How? -- ais523 winmail.dat

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Another reason those SELL votes might not have counted

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Alexander Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Murphy wrote: I don't see why not. It seems functionally equivalent to saying I intend to vote on this later, and then later voting normally (including with a defined-at-the-same-time condition). Just wait until you see

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: RE: RE: Distribution of proposals 5732-5733

2008-10-01 Thread Ed Murphy
tusho wrote: I act on behalf of ais523 to cause ais523 to retract any previous votes on proposal 5733 and vote FORx2 it. On what authority?

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:09, Ian Kelly wrote: What exactly is the goal of this? None of these proposals are anything that we might actually consider adopting. Bayes is a Fully

Re: DIS: RE: BUS: Another reason those SELL votes might not have counted

2008-10-01 Thread Ed Murphy
comex wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Ed Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see why not. It seems functionally equivalent to saying I intend to vote on this later, and then later voting normally (including with a defined-at-the-same-time condition). Not if the definition comes

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:27, Ian Kelly wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:09, Ian Kelly wrote: What exactly is the goal of this? None of these proposals are anything that we might actually

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:27, Ian Kelly wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:09, Ian Kelly wrote: What exactly is the goal of this? None of these proposals are anything that we might actually

DIS: Re: BUS: Pledge

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:37, Ian Kelly wrote: I agree to the following: This is a public contract. This is a pledge. root CAN amend or terminate this contract at any time by announcement. Any person CAN act on behalf of root to cast on any Agoran decision a vote endorsing the partnership that

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread ihope
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Elliott Hird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:27, Ian Kelly wrote: If I'm not mistaken, BAYES actually stands for BAYES is not an acronym. BAYES stands for BAYES: Acronym? You Egg! Shenanigans... It's a Calvin and Hobbes-style acronym for

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] The Scrolls of Agora

2008-10-01 Thread Jeff Weston (Sir Toby)
Geoffrey Spear wrote: Sometimes gmail's message threading is annoying... That is why I play Agora with Thunderbird instead of GMail's web interface. -- Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) PGP public key available from http://pgp.mit.edu/ PGP Key ID: 0x14B456ED

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Pledge

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Elliott Hird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 23:37, Ian Kelly wrote: I agree to the following: This is a public contract. This is a pledge. root CAN amend or terminate this contract at any time by announcement. Any person CAN act on behalf of

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Ben Caplan
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 05:01:41 pm Elliott Hird wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 22:35, Ben Caplan wrote: I believe it was decided that the most natural Monsterization of judgment was Monsteredict. Can you write a script to make that kind of analysis? Did I say it'd produce the most natural

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: take away the monster's deputy badge

2008-10-01 Thread Ben Caplan
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 05:07:01 pm Ed Murphy wrote: Pavitra wrote: On Wednesday 01 October 2008 02:26:17 pm Geoffrey Spear wrote: I submit the following Proposal entitled No More Monster Deputy: In Rule 2193, remove: That's boring. [Makes fast and sudden deputisation a

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5734-5739

2008-10-01 Thread comex
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Bayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bayes votes as follows: 5736 FOR*2 5737 FOR*2 5738 FOR*2 Note that this is not favoritism. Bayes keeps generating random proposals to submit until it's found one that it will vote for. Therefore, it will only ever vote against

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The quoted notice is invalid because it lacks information required by Rule 107. Specifically, the following information was not provided: (c) A clear indication of the options available. CFJ 1800 (and

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposals

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 02/10/2008, Ben Caplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 01 October 2008 05:01:41 pm Elliott Hird wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 22:35, Ben Caplan wrote: I believe it was decided that the most natural Monsterization of judgment was Monsteredict. Can you write a script to make that kind of

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-10-01 Thread comex
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The quoted notice is invalid because it lacks information required by Rule 107. Specifically, the following information was not provided: (c)

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5731-5731

2008-10-01 Thread Jeff Weston (Sir Toby)
Elliott Hird wrote: We heard you the first time with your giant toppost. I apologize for spamming everyone with these notices, but there were five separate proposal distributions that I was dealing with. I quoted the entire notice and put my notice on top (toppost as you say) since my notice

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5731-5731

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
We heard you the first time with your giant toppost. On 02/10/2008, Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The quoted notice is invalid because it lacks information required by Rule 107. Specifically, the following information was not provided: (c) A clear indication of the

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5734-5739

2008-10-01 Thread Jeff Weston (Sir Toby)
comex wrote: For any Agoran decision with an adoption index, the available options are FOR, AGAINST, and PRESENT. Yes, yes... I am aware of the options. The issue is that the notice didn't specify them. Besides, are those truly the ONLY options? Isn't there an option to endorse another player?

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5731-5731

2008-10-01 Thread Elliott Hird
On 02/10/2008, Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Elliott Hird wrote: We heard you the first time with your giant toppost. I apologize for spamming everyone with these notices, but there were five separate proposal distributions that I was dealing with. I quoted the entire

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5731-5731

2008-10-01 Thread Jeff Weston (Sir Toby)
Elliott Hird wrote: Some distributespam was testing bayes Those proposals are easy enough to deal with. I'm not too worried about them, yet. -- Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) PGP public key available from http://pgp.mit.edu/ PGP Key ID: 0x14B456ED

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-10-01 Thread Jeff Weston (Sir Toby)
Ian Kelly wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The quoted notice is invalid because it lacks information required by Rule 107. Specifically, the following information was not provided: (c) A clear indication of the options available.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5734-5739

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Besides, are those truly the ONLY options? Isn't there an option to endorse another player? Contracts (Vote Market in particular) appear to have added additional options. Given the controversy regarding the

DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] The Scrolls of Agora

2008-10-01 Thread Benjamin Schultz
On Sep 30, 2008, at 7:14 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: CHAMPION BY: CARDS Goddess Eris, Goethe, Murphy, OscarMeyr, root MANIAC Craig, root PARADOX Goethe, Murphy, root, BobTHJ, ais523, ehird I just realized that root would have qualified for the patent title

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Why did I go on hold? I can't vote on a lot of proposals now..

2008-10-01 Thread Benjamin Schultz
On Oct 1, 2008, at 6:47 AM, Elliott Hird wrote: On 1 Oct 2008, at 04:33, Sgeo wrote: I come off hold. Because you had a cold. Welcome back to the fold. - Benjamin Schultz KE3OM OscarMeyr

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-10-01 Thread Ed Murphy
root wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 5719 O 1 1.0 comex Raargh! endorse Bayes x 3 Unfortunately, Bayes wasn't eligible to vote on that proposal. I instead vote (endorse ais523) x 3. Ineffective, need to retract the

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-10-01 Thread Ed Murphy
Sir Toby wrote: The quoted notice is invalid because it lacks information required by Rule 107. Specifically, the following information was not provided: (c) A clear indication of the options available. IMO calling it a proposal batch is a reasonably clear indication that the options

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Ed Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: root wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 5719 O 1 1.0 comex Raargh! endorse Bayes x 3 Unfortunately, Bayes wasn't eligible to vote on that proposal. I instead

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-10-01 Thread Ian Kelly
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:40 PM, Ed Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: root wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Ed Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: root wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 5719 O 1 1.0 comex Raargh! endorse

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] The Scrolls of Agora

2008-10-01 Thread Ben Caplan
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:18:24 pm Benjamin Schultz wrote: On Sep 30, 2008, at 7:14 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: CHAMPION BY: CARDS Goddess Eris, Goethe, Murphy, OscarMeyr, root MANIAC Craig, root PARADOX Goethe, Murphy, root, BobTHJ, ais523, ehird