Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-29 Thread Daverz
I don't like the stiffness of the Belden wire (I bought some 5000UE). The Canare 4S11 is nice and flexible; and convenient if both ends provide for bi-wiring. I also need small spades on the speaker end, and Bluejeans only offers these large spades. And I'm somewhat skeptical of the quality

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-29 Thread Curt962
Cable Solutions offers the mini-spades if that's what you need Dave. www.cs1.net -- Curt962 Transporter...TouchBoom.. Curt962's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31949 View this thread:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-29 Thread Daverz
Curt962;621695 Wrote: Cable Solutions offers the mini-spades if that's what you need Dave. www.cs1.net Thanks! I've never seen such a detailed cable customization form. Fan out length? That's class. -- Daverz

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-29 Thread earwaxer9
Ron Olsen;621366 Wrote: http://www.qed.co.uk/genreprt.pdf: A report from the cable manufacturer that shows the advantages of their cables. At £35.00/metre, the QED Genesis cables are not cheap. My vote still goes to the low-cost ($1/ft) cables from Blue Jeans:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-28 Thread johann
Ron Olsen;621366 Wrote: http://www.qed.co.uk/genreprt.pdf: A report from the cable manufacturer that shows the advantages of their cables. Sounds like you didn´t even bother to read it. -- johann johann's Profile:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-28 Thread Curt962
My vote still goes to the low-cost ($1/ft) cables from Blue Jeans: [url Wrote: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm[/url] +1 for the Belden Canare cables. Get that stuff from a variety of sources. I looked at the tech paper...at least they don't make any outlandish claims,

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-28 Thread johann
Curt962;621412 Wrote: I looked at the QED tech paper...at least they don't make any outlandish claims, but aside from publishing a really nice assessment of cables, I don't see why I should buy their product. I'm sure it's fine, but I'll pass. I´m with you on that. Just thought the utter

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-27 Thread johann
Found this link http://www.qed.co.uk/genreprt.pdf. At least some cable manufacturers seem to use a scientific approach to speaker cables. -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-27 Thread artee
I was an expensive-cable cynic of long standing, but for various reasons did get around to trying different speaker cables. I'm now convinced that there can be differences between different speaker cables, and I'm a happy user of the QED Genesis mentioned in that report - not terribly expensive,

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-27 Thread Ron Olsen
artee;621361 Wrote: I was an expensive-cable cynic of long standing, but for various reasons did get around to trying different speaker cables. I'm now convinced that there can be differences between different speaker cables, and I'm a happy user of the QED Genesis mentioned in that report

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-27 Thread artee
You could well be right, as I haven't heard the Blue Jeans. I did have some Naim speaker leads and there was an audible difference between those and the QEDs. I'm not saying that there's an audible difference between all speaker leads, but I do assert that there is an audible difference between

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-20 Thread Curt962
I was sitting in the airport reading that...and was just dying to see the capacitance measurements on the JPS cable.Guess they weren't able to do that. Curious, but I'll bet it would be brutal. -- Curt962 Transporter...TouchBoom..

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-20 Thread earwaxer9
Daverz;619354 Wrote: It was meant at a jab at Stereophile. They measure electronics and speakers, but they don't measure cables. I like seeing the measurements. But it strikes me as having a lack of curiosity to not want to know why the wires might sound different. And -- present

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-20 Thread Curt962
Earwaxer,,,we're not at a different level here. If we are, it's only a different level of people willing to part with huge sums of money for nothing. For so many years, I did home demos of mega high end gearand I used microphone cable (Belden if you must know) that sold for about $0.39/ft.

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-20 Thread Mnyb
Curt962;619363 Wrote: Earwaxer,,,we're not at a different level here. If we are, it's only a different level of people willing to part with huge sums of money for nothing. For so many years, I did home demos of mega high end gearand I used microphone cable (Belden if you must know)

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-20 Thread darrenyeats
earwaxer9;619348 Wrote: If metrics are what matter no-one would listen to tubes. Daverz;619354 Wrote: most audiophiles have far too high an opinion of their own perceptiveness. earwaxer9;619360 Wrote: It HAS to sound better or who would buy it? People are not THAT stupid! My opinion.

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-20 Thread Mnyb
Got the same tee shirt I have a cardboard box filled with bizzare cables, If I need to humble my ego i'll take a look at this pile of junk, I could probably fetch something for it used but that would be the same profiteering on the gullible but now done by myself. And yes people are stupid

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-20 Thread Daverz
earwaxer9;619348 Wrote: who cares? - been there with the chase for THD specs. I'm sure JPS has them. Sound is what matters. If metrics are what matter no-one would listen to tubes. A difference in philosophy. I want my wire to be as neutral as possible, with inaudible deviations from ideal

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-20 Thread earwaxer9
Mnyb;619384 Wrote: Got the same tee shirt I have a cardboard box filled with bizzare cables, If I need to humble my ego i'll take a look at this pile of junk, I could probably fetch something for it used but that would be the same profiteering on the gullible but now done by myself. And

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-20 Thread Mnyb
Some vdh some audioquest and alphacore etc, alas no powercables powercables was getting hot while I got out off that. My power cords are not standard but not very expensive, some are home made. Power cable acording to me grounded conectors twisted geometry and shielded suitable cables is

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-19 Thread earwaxer9
After reading many of the posts on this topic, I was moved to flip through the archives of my mind about some of the cable reviews that left an impression on me. Most cable reviews are vague and of questionable value due to the number of variables involved. I tend to not take them seriously. This

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-19 Thread Daverz
earwaxer9;619311 Wrote: Stereophile April 2007 - JPS Labs Aluminata series. Do they link to JA's measurements? ;) -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-19 Thread earwaxer9
who cares? - been there with the chase for THD specs. I'm sure JPS has them. Sound is what matters. If metrics are what matter no-one would listen to tubes. -- earwaxer9 System: modified Winsome Labs Mouse, modified Maggie MMG's, Transporter, HSU sub 12, MSB DAC to 500 watt sub slave amp, JPS

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-19 Thread Daverz
earwaxer9;619348 Wrote: who cares? It was meant at a jab at Stereophile. They measure electronics and speakers, but they don't measure cables. I like seeing the measurements. But it strikes me as having a lack of curiosity to not want to know why the wires might sound different. And --

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-18 Thread alekz
Hands down. I went from Audioquest Slate to MIT T (forgot the proper name) series, then MIT T biwire, then several 750's (biwire and single wire) and finally own MIT Oracle v3 biwi. I clearly heard and hear the difference between all these cables. -- alekz Equipment: Transporter/PS Audio

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-18 Thread opaqueice
magiccarpetride;617581 Wrote: Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound quality. They certainly make a difference for me - when I disconnect them, I can't hear any music. But hook up a pair of coat hangers and everything is just fine

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-18 Thread konut
opaqueice;618956 Wrote: They certainly make a difference for me - when I disconnect them, I can't hear any music. But hook up a pair of coat hangers and everything is just fine http://consumerist.com/2008/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables.html Agreed. Try the cryoed coat

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-18 Thread Daverz
I don't think there is any way -not- to hear differences after installing a new cable. Our aural memory is just not that good. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-18 Thread Curt962
konut;618960 Wrote: Agreed. Try the cryoed coat hangers. They are aMZing! Ahhh I thought the Cryo-Hangers were a little veiled and closed in. Then it came to me: Pyramids! If they keep milk fresh, and knives sharp.what would happen if. OMG.Even live music sounds mid-fi

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-18 Thread magiccarpetride
opaqueice;618956 Wrote: They certainly make a difference for me - when I disconnect them, I can't hear any music. But hook up a pair of coat hangers and everything is just fine http://consumerist.com/2008/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables.html A friend told me that coat

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-18 Thread konut
The hook end captures the wattage, so thats the amp side. Squigly end is the speaker side. Don't over-think these things. -- konut konut's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1596 View this thread:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-16 Thread Robin Bowes
On 15/03/11 17:53, Howard Turkster wrote: I'd be interested in how many people who believe there is no difference in sound quality between Radio Shack speaker cable and premium-labelled (and priced) speaker cable have A/B demoed the same in their homes. When I first broke in to the hobby,

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-16 Thread JezA
If you can't hear the difference buy the cheapest. If you can hear a difference, ask whether the cable is good, or defective; or whether your hifi is good, or defective; or whether your hearing is good or defective. -- JezA

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-16 Thread Curt962
I guess while we're hearing differencesno system could ever be considered complete without some Magic Pebbles. http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm I ate fruity pebbles for breakfastdidn't hear a damned thing except some mild crunching. The sugar buzz was cool though. My

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-16 Thread Mnyb
Curt962;618493 Wrote: I guess while we're hearing differencesno system could ever be considered complete without some Magic Pebbles. http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm I ate fruity pebbles for breakfastdidn't hear a damned thing except some mild crunching. The

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-16 Thread Robin Bowes
On 16/03/11 14:04, JezA wrote: If you can't hear the difference buy the cheapest. If you can hear a difference, ask whether the cable is good, or defective; or whether your hifi is good, or defective; or whether your hearing is good or defective. This is classic audiophile reasoning: if I

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-16 Thread JezA
Robin Bowes;618495 Wrote: On 16/03/11 14:04, JezA wrote: If you can't hear the difference buy the cheapest. If you can hear a difference, ask whether the cable is good, or defective; or whether your hifi is good, or defective; or whether your hearing is good or defective. This is

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-16 Thread Robin Bowes
On 16/03/11 15:31, JezA wrote: Robin Bowes;618495 Wrote: Could it possibly be that I don't hear a difference because there *isn't* any difference?? Of course it could. But then again, there might be many other reasons why you don't hear a difference that does exist. Don't worry about

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-16 Thread magiccarpetride
Robin Bowes;618495 Wrote: On 16/03/11 14:04, JezA wrote: If you can't hear the difference buy the cheapest. If you can hear a difference, ask whether the cable is good, or defective; or whether your hifi is good, or defective; or whether your hearing is good or defective. This is

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-16 Thread JezA
Hands up who can hear where the edits are in (say) a classical music recording? Does that mean there aren't any? -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-16 Thread Robin Bowes
On 16/03/11 17:38, JezA wrote: Hands up who can hear where the edits are in (say) a classical music recording? Does that mean there aren't any? Point taken. However, when we say differences ( in this context ) we generally mean audible differences. And yes, that raises the question

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Robin Bowes
On 14/03/11 15:22, JezA wrote: Where else does the experience of music exist if not in your mind? I absolutely agree - the enjoyment of music is a cerebral experience. However, we're conflating two separate phenomena here, ie. a change to a music reproduction system vs. a change in the

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread mlsstl
Robin Bowes;618158 Wrote: On 14/03/11 15:22, JezA wrote: Where else does the experience of music exist if not in your mind? I absolutely agree - the enjoyment of music is a cerebral experience. However, we're conflating two separate phenomena here, ie. a change to a music

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread JezA
Simon Marius' claims to have seen the moons of Jupiter were dismissed by his critics as syphilitic hallucinations. Everyone knew the sun went round the earth. He must have imagined them, mustn't he. Don't hear what you don't want to hear. -- JezA

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread magiccarpetride
Robin Bowes;618158 Wrote: On 14/03/11 15:22, JezA wrote: Where else does the experience of music exist if not in your mind? I absolutely agree - the enjoyment of music is a cerebral experience. However, we're conflating two separate phenomena here, ie. a change to a music

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Robin Bowes
On 15/03/11 16:24, JezA wrote: Simon Marius' claims to have seen the moons of Jupiter were dismissed by his critics as syphilitic hallucinations. Everyone knew the sun went round the earth. He must have imagined them, mustn't he. Don't hear what you don't want to hear. Any your point

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Robin Bowes
On 15/03/11 16:28, magiccarpetride wrote: JezA;618222 Wrote: Simon Marius' claims to have seen the moons of Jupiter were dismissed by his critics as syphilitic hallucinations. Everyone knew the sun went round the earth. He must have imagined them, mustn't he. Don't hear what you don't

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Robin Bowes
On 15/03/11 16:29, magiccarpetride wrote: sigh And your point is? R. -- Feed that ego and you starve the soul - Colonel J.D. Wilkes http://www.theshackshakers.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Curt962
Well, for an alleged troll post, I'd say this thread has at least generated some good discussion, and perhaps some food for thought for many. Maybe a little bomb-throwing, but largely a civil discussion. That's good. As far as cables go? I believed in magic when I was 7. I don't now.

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Howard Turkster
I'd be curious to know how many of the cable nay-sayers have demoed some of the more expensive speaker wire vs. the standard Radio Shack wire in good quality home set-ups. -- Howard Turkster Howard Turkster's Profile:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Robin Bowes
On 15/03/11 16:47, Howard Turkster wrote: I'd be curious to know how many of the cable nay-sayers have demoed some of the more expensive speaker wire vs. the standard Radio Shack wire in good quality home set-ups. Howard, I don't believe I've seen any cable nay-sayers around here. Do you

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Curt962
Howard, I don't believe that anyone here is suggesting that 50ft of 26awg is going to outperform a premium cable of any sort. Curious that generic spool wire is more than adequate to wire up our amplifier and speaker internals, but that's another discussion... Some of us HAVE made comparisons

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Phil Leigh
Robin Bowes;618158 Wrote: On 14/03/11 15:22, JezA wrote: Where else does the experience of music exist if not in your mind? I absolutely agree - the enjoyment of music is a cerebral experience. However, we're conflating two separate phenomena here, ie. a change to a music

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Howard Turkster
Robin Bowes;618240 Wrote: On 15/03/11 16:47, Howard Turkster wrote: I'd be curious to know how many of the cable nay-sayers have demoed some of the more expensive speaker wire vs. the standard Radio Shack wire in good quality home set-ups. Howard, I don't believe I've seen any

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Curt962
I'd love to see some actual test data for the various speaker cables out there. You know...resistance, inductance, capacitance... That might be a real eye opener. Then again -- Curt962 Transporter...TouchBoom..

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread JezA
On 'this thread' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78938highlight=power+cordpage=2) John Swenson gave a decent argument, which he can no doubt support by measurement, that power-cables can cause things to which they are connected to behave differently in the audio domain. A good

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Curt962
Jez...once again, I don't believe that anyone is disputing that cables have an influencethe discussion is at what point do the influences cease to make a meaningful difference, and...at what point do we wish to stop funneling added money into the matter. Apparently...there is no point.

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread magiccarpetride
Robin Bowes;618230 Wrote: On 15/03/11 16:29, magiccarpetride wrote: sigh And your point is? R. -- Feed that ego and you starve the soul - Colonel J.D. Wilkes http://www.theshackshakers.com/ Don't feed the troll! -- magiccarpetride

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Phil Leigh
JezA;618256 Wrote: On 'this thread' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78938highlight=power+cordpage=2) John Swenson gave a decent argument, which he can no doubt support by measurement, that power-cables can cause things to which they are connected to behave differently in the

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Waldo Pepper
JezA;617955 Wrote: A cable can't create information, so using DSP instead isn't the answer. The best you can hope for is that it doesn't lose any. Some amplifiers are horrifically sensitive to speaker cables - Naim amps, for example, go unstable (which is certainly measurable! and

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Curt962
I'm on board with Phil here. I worked in this business years ago, and it was getting apparent what was happening 20+ years ago. Separate conductors for lows/mids/highs.uh huh.That, and the special copper (mined by hand)and all the rest. Measure the shunt capacitance of said cable

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Waldo Pepper
Phil Leigh;618266 Wrote: The LCR of the cables becomes part of the circuit they are attached to. No No No. The Thevenin equivalent circuit (Google it) and a bit of schoolboy maffs show this is untrue. An amplifier has near zero output impedance so resistive loss will only affect the

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Daverz
JezA;618222 Wrote: Simon Marius' claims to have seen the moons of Jupiter were dismissed by his critics as syphilitic hallucinations. Everyone knew the sun went round the earth. He must have imagined them, mustn't he. What if all we ever had for 4 centuries were anecdotal sightings of the

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread adamdea
JezA;618256 Wrote: On 'this thread' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78938highlight=power+cordpage=2) John Swenson gave a decent argument, which he can no doubt support by measurement, that power-cables can cause things to which they are connected to behave differently in the

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Phil Leigh
Waldo Pepper;618274 Wrote: No No No. The Thevenin equivalent circuit (Google it) and a bit of schoolboy maffs show this is untrue. An amplifier has near zero output impedance so resistive loss will only affect the volume by so little you cannot measure, yet even hear. The capacitance is

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Phil Leigh
adamdea;618277 Wrote: My recollection is that JS' observation was that power cables could affect equipment through transformer resonance or something similar which I don't understand however his finding was that the effect of any given cable on a particular system was unpredictable and that

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread magiccarpetride
Robin Bowes;618240 Wrote: On 15/03/11 16:47, Howard Turkster wrote: I'd be curious to know how many of the cable nay-sayers have demoed some of the more expensive speaker wire vs. the standard Radio Shack wire in good quality home set-ups. Howard, I don't believe I've seen any

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Curt962
OMG...that is beyond hilarious!!! Better still is to read the user reviews... I don't care how bad your day has been...you'll laugh hysterically!!! -- Curt962 Transporter...TouchBoom.. Curt962's Profile:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread vrette
magiccarpetride;618286 Wrote: Not true. And here is the proof: AudioQuest K2 terminated speaker cable - UST plugs 8' (2.44m) pair (selling on amazon.com for $8450.00 -- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000J36XR2/ref=cm_rdp_product) is getting rave reviews. No wonder, since it says on the

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread vrette
OT. but... I decided to see what other pricey items AudioQuest has to offer here: http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/RetailPriceBook_v2010-May-web.pdf and much to my embarrassment, I realized I actually own one of their USB cables. I paid Crutchfield $29 for a AudioQuest Forest 5 foot USB cable

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread JezA
Daverz;618278 Wrote: I find this rather petulant. Do you have anything to suggest that skepticism isn't warranted? Nothing wrong with skepticism at all; a good skeptic would put the claim to the test. So which cables have you listened to comparitively in your system? Since you do not

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Daverz
JezA;618321 Wrote: Nothing wrong with skepticism at all; a good skeptic would put the claim to the test. A good skeptic would wait for you to give some evidence for your claims. The whole point of skepticism is to sort through a world of competing and contradictory truth claims to

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-15 Thread Daverz
pski;618404 Wrote: This is getting to the point where reading is tedious You is in the wrong place for easy titillation, that's fer sure. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Mnyb
Muele;617598 Wrote: Resist the temptation, don't feed the troll. Don't now if the trollscore goes this low, but I would rate it 0/10 Forgot that it is a 0/10 -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Robin Bowes
On 13/03/11 23:20, konut wrote: My perceived preference is probably not scientifically measurable. Can someone invent a pleasure meter? If your preference is not scientifically measurable then it almost certainly exists only in your mind. R. -- Feed that ego and you starve the soul - Colonel

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Phil Leigh
Robin Bowes;617867 Wrote: On 13/03/11 23:20, konut wrote: My perceived preference is probably not scientifically measurable. Can someone invent a pleasure meter? If your preference is not scientifically measurable then it almost certainly exists only in your mind. R. -- Feed that

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Robin Bowes
On 14/03/11 12:42, Phil Leigh wrote: Robin Bowes;617867 Wrote: On 13/03/11 23:20, konut wrote: My perceived preference is probably not scientifically measurable. Can someone invent a pleasure meter? If your preference is not scientifically measurable then it almost certainly exists only

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread JezA
Where else does the experience of music exist if not in your mind? -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86298

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread konut
Robin Bowes;617867 Wrote: On 13/03/11 23:20, konut wrote: My perceived preference is probably not scientifically measurable. Can someone invent a pleasure meter? If your preference is not scientifically measurable then it almost certainly exists only in your mind. R. -- Feed that

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread iPhone
Speaker cables DO make a difference! The question really is, at what point does it make no sense to spend more money on exotic material and outrageous prices? IE at what point is it good enough to get the job done and above that one can't hear anymore difference or improvement. Speaker cables

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Eriko
If ones system is to bright, this can be tamed just by choosing the proper ICs and speaker cable to even out the effect. [/QUOTE Wrote: If one wants to tame, brighten, get fuller sound, get rid of bass bumps or increase etc etc...you simply use the Inguz Eq plug-in and a RS sound level

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread JezA
A cable can't create information, so DSP isn't the answer. The best you can hope for is that it doesn't lose any. Some amplifiers are horrifically sensitive to speaker cables - Naim amps, for example, go unstable (which is certainly measurable!) unless they have a couple of metres or so of

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Fukinagashi
The only matter that counts IMO is resistance, capacitance and inductance... -- Fukinagashi Fukinagashi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42922 View this thread:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Eriko
JezA;617955 Wrote: A cable can't create information, so using DSP instead isn't the answer. I don´t understand that statement and don´t know what one has to do with the other. IMO, no cable that fulfills general requirements for its purpose, can be the weakest link. I did state, given that

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread TiredLegs
Back in the 1970s, my stereo system's sound seemed to gradually get garbled. I assumed it was the electronics going bad, but I eventually discovered the culprit was massive corrosion on the copper strands of the zip cord I was using as speaker wires. (Now all the copper speaker wire is OFC, so

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread magiccarpetride
iPhone;617945 Wrote: Speaker cables DO make a difference! The question really is, at what point does it make no sense to spend more money on exotic material and outrageous prices? IE at what point is it good enough to get the job done and above that one can't hear anymore difference or

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread JezA
Eriko;617959 Wrote: I don´t understand that statement and don´t know what one has to do with the other. IMO, no cable that fulfills general requirements for its purpose, can be the weakest link. I did state, given that one has a transparent system (meaning having all the information there),

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Curt962
I've never known an audiophile that was happy with the achieved result. If they were, they'd be called Musicphiles. What makes one feel warm and fuzzy today...is a source of angst in the months to come. As soon as ONE reviewer hears something wrong, the quest begins anew. -- Curt962

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Eriko
JezA;617975 Wrote: If a cable loses information DSP can't create it. You are thinking about hi-fi in terms of tonal balance. There's a lot more to it than that. Could you DSP me into Eric Clapton? Doesn´t look like you´re reading carefully enough what I´m saying or responding too. My first

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Phil Leigh
Curt962;617979 Wrote: I've never known an audiophile that was happy with the achieved result. If they were, they'd be called Musicphiles. What makes one feel warm and fuzzy today...is a source of angst in the months to come. As soon as ONE reviewer hears something wrong, the

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Daverz
JezA;617955 Wrote: If you can't hear differences between cables it may mean that your equipment isn't sensitive to them or it may mean that you aren't. So either way don't worry. But if your mind is closed to the possibility that some cables may have an audible effect on some systems, then

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread JezA
Daverz;618002 Wrote: Except that differences between cables is the dogma, with no scientific support for it. As long as we specify a minimum gauge for a given length of wire (and 16AWG is probably adequate in most cases). Why do you say 16AWG is adequate? What scientific support do you have

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread JezA
Eriko;617988 Wrote: Doesn´t look like you´re reading carefully enough what I´m saying or responding too. My first reply, was to the statement using a cable to tame a bright system., which has indeed to do with tonal balance. I also said, given a cable that meets all general requirements

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread bburroughs
magiccarpetride;617712 Wrote: Imagine if someone were to offer you to choose, for free, between a pair of Cardas or Nordost speaker cables. Would you consider it a toss-off, thinking that basically it's the same difference, or would you first spend some time auditioning these two cables, in

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Daverz
JezA;618022 Wrote: Why do you say 16AWG is adequate? What scientific support do you have for that claim? It's based on electrical properties of copper. You can find various tables like this one: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable which is based on the resistance of the

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread JezA
Why 5%? Why not 3.6%? Or 6.2%? Where are the double-blind peer reviewed published studies to support such a claim? Nowhere. It's just another opinion dressed up with a few graphs, some woefully incomplete electronics and plenty of gratuitous insults. -- JezA

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Daverz
JezA;618052 Wrote: Why 5%? Why not 3.6%? Or 6.2%? Where are the double-blind peer reviewed published studies to support such a claim? Nowhere. It's just another opinion dressed up with a few graphs, some woefully incomplete electronics and plenty of gratuitous insults. These numbers

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Phil Leigh
JezA;618025 Wrote: If a cable changes the tonal balance of a system it must be losing information. In particular, information about the tonal balance of the recording! You can only say this if you KNOW what the tonal balance of the recording actually is... Fortunately, this is easy to check

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread Phil Leigh
JezA;618022 Wrote: Why do you say 16AWG is adequate? What scientific support do you have for that claim? It certainly isn't sufficient for a Naim amp for example. Like I said, if you can't hear the differences don't worry about it. Yes... Naim in their infinite wisdom decided they could

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Raise your hand if you're convinced that speaker cables make no difference to sound q

2011-03-14 Thread pski
Howard Turkster;617824 Wrote: Switching from standard 12 AWG cable to Chord Co. Rumour cable was one of the better upgrades I've made to my sytem, after upgrading the RCA interconnects. And as good as those was replacing the A/C outlets with some respectable Porter Port outlets for $36

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