jhm731;175585 Wrote:
As I predicted in your part 1, I didn't think youd hear any
difference with this cheap linear PSU.
Well, of course! Any solution to an audiophile problem that doesn't
cost at least a grand can't possibly be worthwhile :)
(runs for cover)
--
ceejay
opaqueice;175687 Wrote:
Many on this forum and others have reported huge improvements from using
linear PSU's at the same price point and below (this one sells for as
much as $30, evidently). Furthermore it was opened up and checked, and
it's perfectly well constructed.
You just have
P Floding;175700 Wrote:
What is the rest of your system?
In my system I strongly suspect my TacT didn't like the SB's wall
wart.
The symptom was a loss of imaging and a more fatiguing sound in
general.
Re. display noise: You wouldn't expect that to change depending on
extrenal power
Opaquiece,
I did hear hash with the stock ww and the noise floor was lower with
the linear psu.
However the noise floor was lower when I plugged the ww into a power
conditioner, though still louder than the elpac.
My system may be more vulnerable to rfi than yours?
jhm, As to price, I heard
opaqueice;175706 Wrote:
SB3 - custom Odyssey Audio Cyclops - BW CM4 (which are pretty good
floorstanding box speakers with very high MAF/WAF).
I wasn't referring to the display noise (although I see no reason why
the PS would be less likely to affect that than music). I was
referring to
tomjtx;175711 Wrote:
Opaquiece,
I did hear hash with the stock ww and the noise floor was lower with
the linear psu.
However the noise floor was lower when I plugged the ww into a power
conditioner, though still louder than the elpac.
My system may be more vulnerable to rfi than
P Floding;175717 Wrote:
The display noise (if it's there) would be a product of the display
circuit (power to the display, digital drivers, the actual display
itself, etc). I don't see that an external power supply necessarily can
do anything to affect that.
But you do see how it can affect
opaqueice;175723 Wrote:
But you do see how it can affect music playback?
If the PS induces jitter in the D/A it's because there are some stray
fields around which cause noise in the DAC. In that case they will
also induce noise in the analogue out, and when you amplify it you
should
I think I'm with PF on this one - it seems to be not so much a case of
the noise floor being any lower, but of RFI getting in somewhere and
jittering things up...
I can't hear any difference in the noise floor playing a silent WAV...
(in 5.1 party - ie mono mode) and believe me with 1,340 watts
Phil Leigh;175730 Wrote:
I think I'm with PF on this one - it seems to be not so much a case of
the noise floor being any lower, but of RFI getting in somewhere and
jittering things up...
I can't hear any difference in the noise floor playing a silent WAV...
(in 5.1 party - ie mono mode)
P Floding;175727 Wrote:
Well, if a component (say the display system) GENERATES noise
internally, it's not going to help adding a nicer external power
supply. Isn't that quite obvious?
If that's obvious (which I don't agree it is), then it's equally
obvious that the PS doesn't affect
tomjtx;175711 Wrote:
jhm, As to price, I heard NO difference between a stock elpac, a bolder
modded elpac and wayne's prototype ultimate psu NONE, zero, zilch,
nada.
The bolder 750.00 psu is a monumental waste of money IMO.
I'm flameproof at this point so don't bother :-)
( I eat
opaqueice;175723 Wrote:
In any case it would be quite easy (with the right equipment) to
measure whether or not SB jitter is affected by using a linear PS. Has
anyone done that?
Everything's been done before!
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24392
This is my personal
jhm731;175748 Wrote:
I haven't heard the the Bolder PSU or the stock or modded Elpacs.
Suggest you visit the Bolder forum on Audiocircle.com and post your
findings on that product.
My linear cost $30.
Does your asbestos cereal taste better with whole milk or half half?
;-)
If I
Skunk;175751 Wrote:
Everything's been done before!
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24392
This is my personal favorite :-)
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=14589
..Andrew L. Weekes response in particular.
The question isn't does an upgraded supply make a
P Floding;175759 Wrote:
It says absolutely nothing about the SMPS's possible influence on other
equipment.
Astute observation, but opaqueice had asked about jitter.
--
Skunk
Skunk's Profile:
opaqueice;175747 Wrote:
If that's obvious (which I don't agree it is), then it's equally obvious
that the PS doesn't affect music, since your argument works just as well
for that. And again, it's not only the display noise one can check,
it's also the background noise from the left channel.
Not wishing to cloud the issue but what (I think) PF and I are hearing
is the wall wart doing something to our TACT gear rather than
anything to do with the SB itself.
--
Phil Leigh
Phil Leigh's Profile:
Skunk;175764 Wrote:
Astute observation, but opaqueice had asked about jitter.
If used with an external DAC jitter may well be introduced by noise
from the SMPS. Also, even when used with the internal DAC jitter may
well result from noise (from the SMPS) being introduced in unexpected
ways,
Phil Leigh Wrote:
Not wishing to cloud the issue but what (I think) PF and I are hearing
is the wall wart doing something to our TACT gear rather than
anything to do with the SB itself.
I don't think your comment clouds the issue - that possibility remains.
But once again, if the problem
P Floding;175768 Wrote:
That somehow a DAC will start producing noise when nothing is played if
jitter would be present when something is being played. It's like
trying to check the quality of the water supply with the tap turned
off.
Look - if EMI is causing jitter in the DAC, it's also
Well, I disagree. I'll give one more example which might be
instructive, and this will be my last comment on the subject.
Suppose there's a component of EM noise at 100Hz. Imagine adding that
a) to the digital signal before the DAC
b) to the analogue signal after the DAC.
Is there a
Phil Leigh;175784 Wrote:
It doesn't necessarily follow that EMI causing jitter would be audible
as noise in the analogue stages. Jitter affects timing not the noise
floor. I can't hear the wart doing anything to my DAC as far as noise
floor is concerned. It seems the TACT is susceptible to
opaqueice;175789 Wrote:
Well, I disagree. I'll give one more example which might be
instructive, and this will be my last comment on the subject.
Suppose there's a component of EM noise at 100Hz. Imagine adding that
a) to the digital signal before the DAC
b) to the analogue signal
opaqueice;175789 Wrote:
Well, I disagree. I'll give one more example which might be
instructive, and this will be my last comment on the subject.
Suppose there's a component of EM noise at 100Hz. Imagine adding that
a) to the digital signal before the DAC
b) to the analogue signal
Phil Leigh;175800 Wrote:
But...adding a 1kHz tone to (the analogue representation of) the digital
signal wont create analogue noise in the DAC - it just makes it harder
for the DAC to recover the bits...
Well, not really. Adding noise to the digital signal (and yes PF, by
digital signal
opaqueice;175845 Wrote:
Well, not really. Adding noise to the digital signal (and yes PF, by
digital signal I obviously mean the electrical S/PDIF signal
transmitted along the wire, not the abstract sequence of bits) will
change the analogue output of the DAC. This is called jitter; it
P Floding;175883 Wrote:
No, because it is not overlaid. It is correlated. You don't get
similar noise from your described methods.
If you have a separate DAC you can test for yourself with various
transports.
Yes exactly...and correlated jitter doesn't equal noise it equals odd
things
P Floding;175883 Wrote:
No, because it is not overlaid. It is correlated. You don't get
similar noise from your described methods.
OK, I guess that wasn't my last post...
Take the actual waveform, subtract the ideal, and that's the noise
spectrum (or distortion, or choose whatever term you
opaqueice;175906 Wrote:
OK, I guess that wasn't my last post...
Take the actual waveform, subtract the ideal, and that's the noise
spectrum (or distortion, or choose whatever term you prefer - from now
on I'll refer to it as noise). Because everything here is linear, you
can think of the
That's a good point - that hadn't occurred to me. EMI in the range from
20kHz - 40kHz would be inaudible added to the analogue output, but
jitter at that frequency could intermodulate with the digital signal to
produce audible distortion. For example 25kHz jitter can produce 10kHz
noise when a
opaqueice;175930 Wrote:
That's a good point - that hadn't occurred to me. EMI in the range from
20kHz - 40kHz would be inaudible added to the analogue output, but
jitter at that frequency could intermodulate with the digital signal to
produce audible distortion. For example 25kHz jitter
opaqueice;175497 Wrote:
Which brings me to music. So far, I don't hear any differences. I'll
try again later when I have more time to listen.
As I predicted in your part 1, I didn't think youd hear any
difference with this cheap linear PSU.
--
jhm731
opaqueice;175497 Wrote:
Which raises an interesting question - if the stock wallwart really
sounds worse than the linear, why isn't there a difference in the noise
floor for the SB when it's idle or playing a silent track? Doesn't it
seem odd that the effect is audible during complex
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