Hi Simon,
On 12/06/2022 12:42, Simon Phipps wrote:
Please note that I have (intentionally) refrained from responding to
earlier messages. But no-one (including you) was addressing the
repeated negative framing of Andreas' many e-mails so I offered a
contribution from experience to balance
Hi Emiliano,
On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 11:03 AM Emiliano Vavassori <
syntaxerror...@libreoffice.org> wrote:
> Hi Simon,
>
> Il 12/06/22 11:17, Simon Phipps ha scritto:
> > I am sorry you do not find this helpful, but being
> > aware of the true history of the project (especially at a time when
> >
+1
Paolo
On 12/06/2022 12:03, Emiliano Vavassori wrote:
Hi Simon,
Il 12/06/22 11:17, Simon Phipps ha scritto:
They are to help newcomers like you become aware that the complaints
being made are not in fact new or related to the current situation
but date back to a dispute that is many years
Hi Simon,
On 12/06/2022 11:17, Simon Phipps wrote:
Hi Emilliano,
On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 9:31 AM Emiliano Vavassori
wrote:
Hi Simon,
Il 11/06/22 20:02, Simon Phipps ha scritto:
> I will remind you
> that you started this negative approach about how TDF is acting
>
Hi Simon,
Il 12/06/22 11:17, Simon Phipps ha scritto:
They are to help newcomers like you become aware that the complaints
being made are not in fact new or related to the current situation but
date back to a dispute that is many years old and still unresolved due
to personal enmities.
That
Hi Emilliano,
On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 9:31 AM Emiliano Vavassori <
syntaxerror...@libreoffice.org> wrote:
> Hi Simon,
>
> Il 11/06/22 20:02, Simon Phipps ha scritto:
> > I will remind you
> > that you started this negative approach about how TDF is acting
> > illegally when you and I were on the
Hi Simon,
Il 11/06/22 20:02, Simon Phipps ha scritto:
I will remind you
that you started this negative approach about how TDF is acting
illegally when you and I were on the Board together last decade.
I'm honestly struggling to see how your comments can be thought as positive.
And how
Hi Andreas,
On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 6:49 PM Andreas Mantke wrote:
> But I'm tired to repeatedly try to explain things with the same result.
> Otherwise that could be judged as a constant negative message by a
> reader of this list.
>
Since I currently have no relevant affiliation to prevent me
Hi all,
Am 10.06.22 um 12:20 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v Čt 09. 06. 2022 v 20:48 +0200:
this confirms that TDF has payed a part of the Android and Online
development from donation money.
Interestingly, I don't recall any of the Collabora Productivity clients
Hi Andreas,
thanks again for providing a very good analysis of the issues which
should be taken in consideration.
Now that finally the objection about the "app stores" has been clarified
as the board published the decision the are only a few differences left
between my original proposal and
Hi all,
Am 10.06.22 um 12:03 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Michael,
Thank you for the feedback! I've updated the document accordingly, see
below:
Michael Weghorn píše v Út 07. 06. 2022 v 14:07 +:
(...)
Quoting from my previous email:
(I think it definitely makes sense to get deeper into
Hi Kendy,
On 10/06/2022 12.03, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
Thank you for the feedback! I've updated the document accordingly, see
below:
Thanks a lot!
I'm not sure. It's still a bit unclear to me what "researching and
increasing their experience by contributing to new ways to advance
the
free
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v Čt 09. 06. 2022 v 20:48 +0200:
> this confirms that TDF has payed a part of the Android and Online
> development from donation money.
Interestingly, I don't recall any of the Collabora Productivity clients
(even proprietary companies) ever complaining that the
Hi Simon,
Simon Phipps píše v Pá 03. 06. 2022 v 09:59 +0100:
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 7:51 AM Ilmari Lauhakangas <
> ilmari.lauhakan...@libreoffice.org> wrote:
> > Tendering and in-house development are not interchangeable, but
> > they are
> > interlinked. Keep in mind that the in-house devs
Hi Michael,
Thank you for the feedback! I've updated the document accordingly, see
below:
Michael Weghorn píše v Út 07. 06. 2022 v 14:07 +:
> > Please don't get me wrong - I believe the appstores is an important
> > discussion, just don't want to block the hiring on that; as I think
> > it
Hi all,
Am 09.06.22 um 13:03 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v St 08. 06. 2022 v 19:53 +0200:
Interestingly I cannot remember TDF ever tendering for LibreOffice
Online work, can you please point me to the details?
TDF tendered in 2014/2015 the work for the Android
Hi all,
Am 09.06.22 um 08:53 schrieb Thorsten Behrens:
Hi Andreas, all,
Andreas Mantke wrote:
Am 8. Juni 2022 22:35:01 MESZ schrieb Thorsten Behrens
:
As such, lets please get back to the topic.
Because the acting people from that years hasn't realy changed I
think that gives a clearer
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v St 08. 06. 2022 v 19:53 +0200:
> > Interestingly I cannot remember TDF ever tendering for LibreOffice
> > Online work, can you please point me to the details?
> TDF tendered in 2014/2015 the work for the Android editing, which was
> explained to the board also
Hi Paolo,
[last comment from me on this sub-thread]
Paolo Vecchi wrote:
> There isn't and hasn't been much debate going on and the ESC has
> been asked to vote today about killing LOOL.
>
Whatever the outcome of the ESC discussion - moving to the attic is
not 'killing' a project (which is an
Hi Thorsten,
On 08/06/2022 22:35, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
Dear list,
Andreas Mantke wrote:
Interestingly I cannot remember TDF ever tendering for LibreOffice
Online work, can you please point me to the details?
TDF tendered in 2014/2015 the work for the Android editing, which was
explained
Hi Andreas, all,
Andreas Mantke wrote:
> Am 8. Juni 2022 22:35:01 MESZ schrieb Thorsten Behrens
> :
> >As such, lets please get back to the topic.
> >
>
> Because the acting people from that years hasn't realy changed I
> think that gives a clearer view on their mindset and agenda. It's
>
Hi all,
Am 8. Juni 2022 22:35:01 MESZ schrieb Thorsten Behrens
:
>Dear list,
>
>Andreas Mantke wrote:
>> > Interestingly I cannot remember TDF ever tendering for LibreOffice
>> > Online work, can you please point me to the details?
>> TDF tendered in 2014/2015 the work for the Android editing,
Dear list,
Andreas Mantke wrote:
> > Interestingly I cannot remember TDF ever tendering for LibreOffice
> > Online work, can you please point me to the details?
> TDF tendered in 2014/2015 the work for the Android editing, which was
> explained to the board also as important for LOOL.
>
That
Hi Andreas,
On 08/06/2022 19:53, Andreas Mantke wrote:
Hi all,
Am 06.06.22 um 13:18 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v Ne 05. 06. 2022 v 19:12 +0200:
If I remember correctly TDF has paid a big part of work on the basics
of
LOOL. And maybe some former / current board
Hi all,
Am 06.06.22 um 13:18 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v Ne 05. 06. 2022 v 19:12 +0200:
If I remember correctly TDF has paid a big part of work on the basics
of
LOOL. And maybe some former / current board member recognize which
company was paid for that work
Hi Kendy, all,
On 31/05/2022 15.59, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
Removal of section "App stores management": As mentioned earlier, I
agree that it makes sense to separate the app store topic from the
current proposal of hiring developers, and focus on areas that are
currently not receiving enough
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v Ne 05. 06. 2022 v 19:12 +0200:
> If I remember correctly TDF has paid a big part of work on the basics
> of
> LOOL. And maybe some former / current board member recognize which
> company was paid for that work from donation money.
Interestingly I cannot
Hi Cor, all,
Am 02.06.22 um 23:17 schrieb Cor Nouws:
Hi Andreas,
Thanks for your answer,
Andreas Mantke wrote on 01/06/2022 20:13:
Am 01.06.22 um 11:48 schrieb Cor Nouws:
Andreas Mantke wrote on 31/05/2022 19:49:
I only could see the difference that in one case TDF has full control
Hi Ilmari,
Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote:
> On 3.6.2022 11.58, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> > [1] curious as in - how much weight should that carry, when writing
> > the job posting / assessing skills?
>
> It's a necessity. I have newbie level experience that I definitely hope to
> grow alongside
Hi Cor,
On 03/06/2022 13:16, Cor Nouws wrote:
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi wrote on 03/06/2022 11:53:
...
Another reason why I did not want to share my proposal open for
editing to anyone is that it might happen that someone writes
something that should not be written in a public document.
We
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v Čt 02. 06. 2022 v 18:34 +0200:
> But seriously: you behave in a way which is unworthy for a leader of
> an
> OSS project. The TDF community consists not only from TDF members.
> And
> you denigrate all participants which are not TDF member. This damages
> the
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi wrote on 03/06/2022 11:53:
...
Another reason why I did not want to share my proposal open for editing
to anyone is that it might happen that someone writes something that
should not be written in a public document.
We want a public discussion (of course not when it
On 3.6.2022 11.58, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote:
Tendering and in-house development are not interchangeable, but they are
interlinked. Keep in mind that the in-house devs would participate in
running tenders.
That's a possibility, yeah. But just curious [1], is that
Hi Simon,
On 03/06/2022 10:59, Simon Phipps wrote:
Hi!
On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 7:51 AM Ilmari Lauhakangas
wrote:
Tendering and in-house development are not interchangeable, but
they are
interlinked. Keep in mind that the in-house devs would participate in
running tenders.
Hi!
On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 7:51 AM Ilmari Lauhakangas <
ilmari.lauhakan...@libreoffice.org> wrote:
>
> Tendering and in-house development are not interchangeable, but they are
> interlinked. Keep in mind that the in-house devs would participate in
> running tenders.
>
Another valuable role for
Hi Ilmari, all,
Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote:
> Tendering and in-house development are not interchangeable, but they are
> interlinked. Keep in mind that the in-house devs would participate in
> running tenders.
>
That's a possibility, yeah. But just curious [1], is that currently a
bottleneck for
On 2.6.2022 21.50, laszlo.nem...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
Also tendering and in-house development are not interchangeable. The
planned in-house development with 1-2 developers is not a viable option
for LibreOffice development without the development activity of a couple
dozen developers
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi wrote on 02/06/2022 22:59:
thanks for your extensive explanation which I really appreciate as I
appreciate your contributions both during your working hours and as a
volunteer.
We surely are all working with passion to reach the same goal and we
have specialisations
Hi Andreas,
Thanks for your answer,
Andreas Mantke wrote on 01/06/2022 20:13:
Am 01.06.22 um 11:48 schrieb Cor Nouws:
Andreas Mantke wrote on 31/05/2022 19:49:
I only could see the difference that in one case TDF has full control
I do not understand what you mean. What is full
Hi Laszlo,
thanks for your extensive explanation which I really appreciate as I
appreciate your contributions both during your working hours and as a
volunteer.
We surely are all working with passion to reach the same goal and we
have specialisations that allow us to view things from
Hi all,
Am 02.06.22 um 16:14 schrieb Emiliano Vavassori:
Hi all,
I think it is just fair to add some small details about the how a CoI
should be processed as food for thoughts and only for the sake of the
argument.
Il 02/06/22 12:32, Jan Holesovsky ha scritto:
Thus I'd
expect that this CoI
Hi,
Sorry, I hope my late answer will be as friendly and productive as I
intended it to be.
On 2022-06-01 17:23, Andreas Mantke wrote:
Hi all,
Am 01.06.22 um 11:11 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v Út 31. 05. 2022 v 19:49 +0200:
I'd be curious to know what would
Hi,
Am 02.06.22 um 12:32 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v St 01. 06. 2022 v 17:23 +0200:
Am 01.06.22 um 11:11 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
The difference is that once you hire a developer / developers, the
development becomes a mandatory expense - TDF has to pay their
Hi all,
I think it is just fair to add some small details about the how a CoI
should be processed as food for thoughts and only for the sake of the
argument.
Il 02/06/22 12:32, Jan Holesovsky ha scritto:
Thus I'd
expect that this CoI should be solved asap and the appropriate
measures
taken
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v St 01. 06. 2022 v 17:23 +0200:
> Am 01.06.22 um 11:11 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
> >
> > The difference is that once you hire a developer / developers, the
> > development becomes a mandatory expense - TDF has to pay their wage
> > every month.
>
> It seemed you
+1
Paolo
On 01/06/2022 20:13, Andreas Mantke wrote:
Hi Cor, all,
Am 01.06.22 um 11:48 schrieb Cor Nouws:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke wrote on 31/05/2022 19:49:
I'd be curious to know what would be (from the point of TDF's mission /
statutes) the difference between working on the source
Hi Cor, all,
Am 01.06.22 um 11:48 schrieb Cor Nouws:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke wrote on 31/05/2022 19:49:
I'd be curious to know what would be (from the point of TDF's mission /
statutes) the difference between working on the source code by in-house
developers and by tendering and paying a
Hi all,
Am 01.06.22 um 11:11 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v Út 31. 05. 2022 v 19:49 +0200:
I'd be curious to know what would be (from the point of TDF's mission
/
statutes) the difference between working on the source code by in-
house
developers and by tendering
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke wrote on 31/05/2022 19:49:
I'd be curious to know what would be (from the point of TDF's mission /
statutes) the difference between working on the source code by in-house
developers and by tendering and paying a commercial company for doing
this work?
I only could
Hi Andreas,
Andreas Mantke píše v Út 31. 05. 2022 v 19:49 +0200:
> I'd be curious to know what would be (from the point of TDF's mission
> /
> statutes) the difference between working on the source code by in-
> house
> developers and by tendering and paying a commercial company for doing
> this
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi wrote on 28/05/2022 11:25:
The intention here (and I would very much like to support that idea),
is to come up with a merged proposal, which then gets broad support.
Broad support by whom?
Up until Collabora Productivity's general manager came out with his own
Hi,
Am 31.05.22 um 15:59 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:
Hi Michael,
Michael Weghorn píše v So 28. 05. 2022 v 21:21 +:
(...)
The following passage in that section is a bit unclear to me:
It is also expected that while the Targeted Developer is unable to
actively contribute to public and
Hi Michael,
Michael Weghorn píše v So 28. 05. 2022 v 21:21 +:
> I think having Paolo's original proposal and this one in a form
> that's
> easy to compare is very helpful.
Thank you!
> After reading the discussion on the mailing list, I was surprised
> that
> the overall direction still
Hi Paolo, all,
Paolo Vecchi wrote:
> On 27/05/2022 12:31, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> > Process-wise, my call to work out a proposal how to come to a joint
> > text (in a small circle) is still open.
>
> I've asked many times but still no answer. Will you one day explain why you
> keep wanting to
Hi Kendy, all,
On 26/05/2022 17.08, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
Good idea, Paolo, thank you. The new version that merges the proposals
is in:
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/f/960049
as
TDF-In-House-Developers-Proposal-v2.1.odt
All my changes are change-tracked, so it should make
Hi,
On 27/05/2022 12:31, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
Hi Paolo, all,
Paolo Vecchi wrote:
That document clearly contains another proposal which should go its own way
instead of trying to make it pass as a "merged" proposal.
The intention here (and I would very much like to support that idea),
is
Hi Paolo,
Paolo Vecchi píše v Pá 27. 05. 2022 v 10:58 +0200:
> Hiring-another-mentor-controlled-by-ESC-v1.0.odt is probably a more
> indicated name for that new proposal.
Hiring: yes.
another-mentor: no; the proposal clearly says the primary role is
development.
+ The secondary mentoring
Hi Paolo, all,
Paolo Vecchi wrote:
> That document clearly contains another proposal which should go its own way
> instead of trying to make it pass as a "merged" proposal.
>
The intention here (and I would very much like to support that idea),
is to come up with a merged proposal, which then
Hi Kendy,
On 26/05/2022 17:08, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
TDF-In-House-Developers-Proposal-v2.1.odt
what you wrote in that document has completely changed the logic of the
proposal so please do rename that file in something that relates better
to its content.
That document clearly contains
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