It doesn't matter if 1 and 2 are totally useless, it's the 'thought' that
counts. Without fair warning, a claim could be made of mistaken identity or
the like. Better to show good intentions to the law than not.
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Gruss Gott wrote:
>
> > Dino wrote:
> > 4. Just to
> Dino wrote:
> 4. Just to be safe, a few warning shots near or over (but not at) the
> closing ship.
> 5. If this all fails, remove the threat.
>
(1.) That's a great legal readout.
(2.) That's a great there-are-no-other-factors-to-consider analysis.
(3.) Both #1 & #2 are probably totally usel
"According to international law, piracy takes place outside the normal
jurisdiction of a state, without state authority, and is private, not
political, though acts of unlawful warfare, acts of insurgents and
revolutionaries, mutiny, and slave trading have been defined as piracy by
national laws of
> JJ wrote:
>
> Gruss, you need to do a little deeper reading on this.
>
> The pirates are not Islamisists. As a matter of fact, they are often
> at the end of guns fighting with the Islamisists. They are not the
> same groups.
>
> And shooting toward a Western plane at the airport is _not_ news.
Gruss, you need to do a little deeper reading on this.
The pirates are not Islamisists. As a matter of fact, they are often
at the end of guns fighting with the Islamisists. They are not the
same groups.
And shooting toward a Western plane at the airport is _not_ news. lol.
that is called "Monda
> Dino wrote:
> firm hand in the past and we should do so in the present and future. If the
> Somalis have a beef with the Mafia or the Europeans then they should take it
> up with them. Attacking American ships results in one response - the removal
> of the threat. They are attacking random ships
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Larry Lyons wrote:
>
> >Wow...first Robert and Gruss agree on stuff (with increasing frequency)
> and
> >now I find myself agreeing with Larry AND Dana...what is this world coming
> >to?
> >
> >
>
> You're starting to come to your senses?
That's just silly talk.
>Wow...first Robert and Gruss agree on stuff (with increasing frequency) and
>now I find myself agreeing with Larry AND Dana...what is this world coming
>to?
>
>
You're starting to come to your senses?
~|
Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 s
>That's a good idea, but is it doable? WOuldn't the logistics of it be pretty
>daunting, considering we are talking about potentially hundreds of ships
>owned by hundreds of companies from several dozen different countries?
>
It wouldn't be too difficult. Just get some cooperation with the in
> JJ wrote:
> So, obviously again you have all the answers. so educate us.
The best way to find right answers is to ask the right questions.
> What should we have done with that captain and those 4 pirates?
>
> Get specific, here.
>
As I've said, there was no choice in this case (given a best e
1. Why was the US Navy recreated in 1794?
2. What does the term "to the shores of Tripoli" refer to?
3. Why are marines called leathernecks?
What does this have to do with anything? We've dealt with pirates with a
firm hand in the past and we should do so in the present and future. If the
Somalis
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Gruss Gott wrote:
> I'm the messenger. I'm just telling you what you're clearly not
> considering: that pirates can be viewed as folk heroes.
Oh no, I am completely aware that in most conflicts, both sides think
they are right
~
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Gruss Gott wrote:
>
> This is a tread-lightly scenario if I've ever seen one and anybody
> that thinks different skipped history
>
What exactly do you mean "tread lightly"?
What would you have done, Gruss? Paid the ransom?
--
When the Jazzman's testifyin'
A
So, obviously again you have all the answers. so educate us.
What should we have done with that captain and those 4 pirates?
Get specific, here.
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Gruss Gott wrote:
>
>> CamChi wrote:
>> Yes, but he gave to the poor. Do you really have in your head a
>> picture
> CamChi wrote:
> Yes, but he gave to the poor. Do you really have in your head a
> picture of these pirates riding on horseback through villages throwing
> bags of gold coins for all the peasants to enjoy?
>
> I mean, I really have no idea what they do with it, but I think it's
> more likely tha
Wow...first Robert and Gruss agree on stuff (with increasing frequency) and
now I find myself agreeing with Larry AND Dana...what is this world coming
to?
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Dana wrote:
>
> I agree with thatwarnings. Frankly pleasure craft should be banned
> from the area until t
it's what they used to do before police forces in Europe...
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:56 AM, G Money wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Larry Lyons wrote:
>
>> One good solution would be to use convoys for the commercial shipping.
>> There are enough military ships in the area right t
I agree with thatwarnings. Frankly pleasure craft should be banned
from the area until this is settled. In this case stupidity should not
be rewarded.
>
>
~|
Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic rele
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Larry Lyons wrote:
> One good solution would be to use convoys for the commercial shipping.
> There are enough military ships in the area right that you could set up a
> convoy guarded by one or two frigates with drones or helicopters roving on
> either side of
>> My point is, if you let things get to the point where someone gets
>> killed, then you start the never-ending cycle of retribution: they
>> killed us so we kill them so they kill us so we kill them so ...
>>
>
>Once again, I disagree, because we are dealing with a different enemy. You
>keep try
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Gruss Gott wrote:
> Somalia. They view themselves as peaceful people we don't hurt
> anybody and only take ransom. In other words, it's simply an honest
> and fair business.
I am pretty sure you just said "don't hate the player hate the game",
and applied it t
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Dana wrote:
> The crackheads aren't in charge of the neoghborhood and you don't have
> children.
Yes, because the community is doing something about it. But really,
the what and why that creates a local drug problem is different than
the what and why of Somalia
> Cam wrote:
> On what planet are armed gunmen who hijack a ship for their own
> personal gain peaceful?
>
Somalia. They view themselves as peaceful people we don't hurt
anybody and only take ransom. In other words, it's simply an honest
and fair business.
And the thing lots of people are forg
It _has_ been on the radar for years. If you have been reading the
threat assessments, even the public ones, coming out of Washington, it
has been a growing concern for 2+ years. Even we on cf-comm had a very
long thread about it last fall.
We know the names of the pirates. We know the houses the
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Gruss Gott wrote:
> My point is, if you let things get to the point where someone gets
> killed, then you start the never-ending cycle of retribution: they
> killed us so we kill them so they kill us so we kill them so ...
>
Once again, I disagree, because we ar
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Gruss Gott wrote:
>> CamChi wrote:
>> The short term message Obama sent? "Don't fsck with US ships."
>
> Yeah, that's what you heard. What they heard was, "Americans love
> killing peaceful Somalis just going about their business.":
On what planet are armed gu
ok. I am fine with that. It would be nice if some root causes got
addressed as well, is all. The fact that this wasn't even on the radar
for years and years makes me very skeptical of any hyteria about how
it's the most important threat we face.
> It _has_ been going on for years, but there has
I haven't watched any talking heads this week. No time. Last 2 weeks
in Florida for the year, and am already out of time for all the things
I want and need to do.
It _has_ been going on for years, but there has been a sharp uptick in
incidents in the last 6 months. It went from "low simmer" to "h
The crackheads aren't in charge of the neoghborhood and you don't have
children. Let's put it this way -- I've been living right downntown
too for the past six months or so and there's a LOT of foot traffic
through the vacant lot next door. I'm pretty sure someone on the next
street over is sell
I think you've been watching too many talking heads this week. It
*has* been going on for years. I don't like it and I am glad we
rescued the captain. I don't think the rescue will stop them though.
Not if there is any truth at all to that article.
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Jerry Johnson
> CamChi wrote:
> The short term message Obama sent? "Don't fsck with US ships."
>
Yeah, that's what you heard. What they heard was, "Americans love
killing peaceful Somalis just going about their business.":
---
France and the U.S. will encounter unforgettable lessons, Mohame
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Gruss Gott wrote:
> That's a pretty short-term way to think about things.
>
> The problem is, now you've got Somalis promising to kill Americans and
> The French whenever and where ever they find them.
And the long term solution? Go back and undo everything tha
See, I disagree, I think these pirates are completely different from the
ideologically driven terrorists. These people want/need money. That's it.
That's what they are after. If they can't get money, or if the get killed
while getting the money, it does them NO good.
Our latest action showed them
I personally don't feel there is anything going on in the world that
was a more serious threat to the long-term health of the United States
than those pirates.
The idea that FOR YEARS they could at will hijack and kill and hold
hostage people and ships and cargo is unacceptable.
The growth in th
it will most likely cause more to go on and do more dumb shit to be honest.
these idiots will continue on, just like the jihadi's now we have another enemy
to really worry about... another un-uniformed, un-organized and
potentially lethal
criminal. one with little to no regard for much. SWEET!
O
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dana wrote:
> yes. Not likely to stop anyone though, if they really do operate from
> necessity.
It stopped those three.
~|
Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic r
> JJ wrote:
>
> I think the resolution to this latest hijacking was effective.
>
That's a pretty short-term way to think about things.
The problem is, now you've got Somalis promising to kill Americans and
The French whenever and where ever they find them.
And you can't just go into Somali wate
yes. Not likely to stop anyone though, if they really do operate from necessity.
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Jerry Johnson wrote:
>
> I think the resolution to this latest hijacking was effective.
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Dana wrote:
>> Nobody wants piracy to continue. But eff
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Dana wrote:
> very good. So now: if you have a Somali warlord for a neighbor, what
> are your odds of survival if you play by the rules?
Well, I don't. I do have crackheads as neighbors though. *Gasp* -
somehow I still manage to play by the rules.
> Just sayi
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Jerry Johnson wrote:
> I think the resolution to this latest hijacking was effective.
GMTA.
-Cameron
~|
Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to
date
Get
I think the resolution to this latest hijacking was effective.
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Dana wrote:
> Nobody wants piracy to continue. But effective
> solutions are more likely to arise if someone has given some thought
> to why people practice it.
~
very good. So now: if you have a Somali warlord for a neighbor, what
are your odds of survival if you play by the rules? Just saying.
Course if you would prefer to sip your latte and point fingers, he
don't let me stop you. Nobody wants piracy to continue. But effective
solutions are more likely t
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Cameron Childress wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Dana wrote:
>> True enough. what do you call a guy who takes money to look the other
>> way when his neighbor's children are dying to save the Italian Mafia
>> money?
>
> Somali Warlord
>
>
~
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Dana wrote:
> True enough. what do you call a guy who takes money to look the other
> way when his neighbor's children are dying to save the Italian Mafia
> money?
Somali Warlord
~|
Adobe® ColdF
True enough. what do you call a guy who takes money to look the other
way when his neighbor's children are dying to save the Italian Mafia
money?
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 5:36 AM, Scott Stroz wrote:
>
> +1. Do you know what you call a man who streals a loaf of bread to feed his
> family? A thief.
True enough. what do you call a guy who takes money to look the other
way when his neighbor's children are dying to save the Italian Mafia
money?
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 5:36 AM, Scott Stroz wrote:
>
> +1. Do you know what you call a man who streals a loaf of bread to feed his
> family? A thief.
+1. Do you know what you call a man who streals a loaf of bread to feed his
family? A thief.
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Cameron Childress wrote:
>
> The piracy is a crime. I also have sympathy for the crackhead down
> the street that tries to rob me, but he's still going to jail if he
>
but you're not and you yourself would say no, correct? So...all I am
saying is that there is plenty of blame to go around, and this article
presents a side that it says is true and being overlooked. The "piracy
is bad" angle is not news.
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Michael Dinowitz
wrote:
Maybe I'm just reacting to the simplistic way he's going about this and the
rather one sided approach he's taking. Piracy is wrong but... is what he's
saying. He's all but excusing it because of the big bad west.
Would I take money to allow my neighbor's kid to be poisoned? If I was a
Somali warl
This is not an alternate view, it's a rambling mess of an article with
some kinda insane history lesson loosely trying to excuse holding
people hostage and demanding ransom.
Is does bring up a separate and (unfortunately for the author)
unrelated problem, which is dumping of toxic waste in the oc
I think you are reading more into it than is there. The article says,
we are only hearing one side. Here is another. It actually goes to
some lengths to say of course piracy is wrong, even.
But if in fact people become pirates because they see no choice, it
doesn't matter if somebody got money for
It is a tiny amount and probably didn't get to anyone other than the
warlords, but it was still a financial transaction between a party in
(partial) rule of the area and a party wishing to dump waste. This fact is
not mentioned in the article and should be. It is not a cut and dry "the
west is the
80 million is nothing when it comes to environmental cleanup. Did that
money get to the people affected, ev
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Michael Dinowitz
wrote:
>
> I notice that the payment to Somali warlords of $80 million in return for
> the 'rights' to dump the waste was not mentioned. A
I love the general indictment of the entire Western world under the phrase
"our crimes". Or maybe the writer just means Europeans? Either way. The
Italian mafia is a criminal enterprise, yet somehow this idiotic writer
manages to indict everyone in his farce of an accusation.
Somalia is a failed
I notice that the payment to Somali warlords of $80 million in return for
the 'rights' to dump the waste was not mentioned. As much as the article
makes it out to be the evil west vs. the noble suffering Somalis, the truth
of the situation if far from that simple.
On the other hand, it is not a re
In 1991, the government of Somalia - in the Horn of Africa -
collapsed. Its 9 million people have been teetering on starvation ever
since - and many of the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen
this as a great opportunity to steal the countrys food supply and
dump our nuclear waste in the
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