cracking a Cache-Director [7:42204]

2002-04-21 Thread Muhammad Hammad Alam
Hi group, This might be abit unusual to ask on a cisco mailing list but im gone all hands up with this problem. I have an Alteon Cache-Director. The problem is that I have lost its password and JUST DONT HAVE ANY CLUE how to crack it. If anyone has any clue about this please do tell me. I will be

Cisco 2503 Pro Access upgrading [7:42203]

2002-04-21 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi all, >From a customer I received a Cisco Pro Access 2503 router (Same like normal 2503 but only in a white chassis) I have upgraded the bootROM already and was trying to upgrade the router to version 12.1.9a for my home LAB. Unfortunately the router responds after the upgade with a message t

Re: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111]

2002-04-21 Thread Larry Letterman
I agree...if one has a good deal of home equity here in the SV, you could pay cash for a house elsewhere and work cheaper and not have to worry about it... Larry Letterman Cisco Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "adam lee" To: Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 9:30 PM Subj

RE: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111]

2002-04-21 Thread adam lee
I've heard so many stories about that. I wondering where that leaves the rest of us? -Original Message- From: Larry Letterman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:17 PM To: adam lee; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111] I agree...if one

RE: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111]

2002-04-21 Thread adam lee
It's all relative. Some folks here have been cashing out and moving to Sac cause it's cheaper. Can't say that I blame them. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Larry Letterman Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 5:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subjec

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Oddy
OSPF by default would inject the default route as an "E2" route in the routing table, but "E2" routes never take into account the cummaltive costs to the route originator. The answer to this would be for OSPF to inject the defualt route as an "E1" route. That way, the default route that would be

Slight digression on Scenario 5 -- choices on real-world policy [7:42198]

2002-04-21 Thread Howard C. Berkowitz
At 9:57 PM -0400 4/21/02, Chuck wrote: >I think I see what you are getting to, Howard, but for the purpose of your >scenario, are you assuming that the enterprise backbone construction makes >sense? > >for example, in your case, are you assuming something like >Seattle---PortlandSanFran---SanJ

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Nigel Taylor
See Inline... >From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" >Reply-To: "Howard C. Berkowitz" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139] >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:03:20 -0400 > > >Howard, > > I think I see where you're going. The default on the "DIO" > >command

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Nigel Taylor
Based on chuck's diagram and the use of the "E1" ospf route I think this would be a matter of how the enterprise is designed and what type of links interconnect the various locations/sites. Simply using the "DIO" metric-type could allow for suboptimal routing as chuck noted. I realize that I wa

Re: Session Timeout [7:42145]

2002-04-21 Thread Jill Johnson
Thank you very much for your quick response and make it clear, Michael. We have ISDN line. I will try setup the session timeout tomorrow and will let you know if I have any problems/questions. Let me know if you want to see my configurations. > We use ISDN line on port 0. We attached the stra

Undeliverable mail--"support them." [7:42194]

2002-04-21 Thread postmaster
The following mail can't be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: support them. The attachment is the original mail Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=42194&t=42194 -- FAQ

VPDN accounting problem [7:42193]

2002-04-21 Thread zhou optical
When a VPDN user disconnect connection,there is a release of accounting stop packet in LNS,but if there is also a release of acounnting stop packet in LAC. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=42193&t=42193 -- FAQ, list

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Chuck
I think I see what you are getting to, Howard, but for the purpose of your scenario, are you assuming that the enterprise backbone construction makes sense? for example, in your case, are you assuming something like Seattle---PortlandSanFran---SanJose---LosAngeles---SanDiego with the ISP conn

Re: Session Timeout [7:42145]

2002-04-21 Thread Michael L. Williams
You will use the dialer idle-timeout command on the Dialer interface (or the Async interface if you're doing it that way), and use the exec timeout command on the line i.e. interface dialer 1 (or: interface async 1, etc) dialer idle-timeout 900 (900 seconds = 15 minutes... set to whatever you

Re: Session Timeout [7:42145]

2002-04-21 Thread Jill Johnson
Thank you for the warning for URL wrap. So, I need to type in two commands in order to set up session timeout: dialer idle-timeout seconds [inbound | either] exec timeout 0 0 By the way, are you using Steel Radius software from FUNK also? Not too many people are using this software. Have anot

Re: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Steven A. Ridder
What I meant was in the past, I have opened up cases for customers on a weekday, then come a weekend, the TAC engineer is gone until the next Mon. I was just curious if this was the norm. ""Chuck"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I would presume that if you have

Re: Need Part # for DB60 DTE to DB60 DCE back to back crossover [7:42186]

2002-04-21 Thread cebuano
Just want to caution you on buying these cheap crossover cables. The ones mentioned refer to the kind of cable where the pins are NOT solid pins but two pins paired as one. The solid pins are ROUNDED tips whereas the paired ones of course are not. This makes a difference when you are removing/inse

Re: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111]

2002-04-21 Thread Larry Letterman
Housing is cheaper, so are the salaries... Larry Letterman Cisco Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" To: Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:01 PM Subject: Re: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111] > The new direction of this thread may bring new signif

Re: WS-C1900C [7:42173]

2002-04-21 Thread Lee James
1924-A and 1924-EN are capable fo running CLI. 1924-A must have the firmware upgraded to Enterprise. Both switches are half the size of the 1900C, and have an rj45 console port, as opposed to the 9 pin console port. the 1900cs are not upgradeable to CLI. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy

Re: Simple (E)IGRP Metric Question [7:42103]

2002-04-21 Thread Priscilla Oppenheimer
I have one more comment about reliability and load. As I stated before, they are dynamically calculated. It made some sense to take them into account with IGRP because of the regular updates every 90 seconds. A recipient router could maintain a somewhat real-time view of the reliability and lo

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Howard C. Berkowitz
>question embedded within: > > >""Howard C. Berkowitz"" wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... >> >Howard, > > >I think I see where you're going. The default on the "DIO" >> >command is >> >applying an "E2" to the default as it is sent into the enterprise. It

Re: Need Part # for DB60 DTE to DB60 DCE back to back crossover [7:42179]

2002-04-21 Thread Thomas Larus
I have bought from symmic, and things have worked out well, too. Tom Larus ""Wow"" wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I have bought some back to back cables from this place: > http://www.symmic.com/computer/cabcisco.htm > > pretty cheap and no problems. > > Dennis > > ""Jason"" wrot

Re: RSVP and VOIP [7:42095]

2002-04-21 Thread dawn davis
yes, but not on the AS5300. You need an H.323 Proxy and/or Gatekeeper >From: "Lupi, Guy" >Reply-To: "Lupi, Guy" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RSVP and VOIP [7:42095] >Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 17:19:58 -0400 >Received: from [63.104.50.75] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBE8B2B400

RE: Need Part # for DB60 DTE to DB60 DCE back to b [7:42161]

2002-04-21 Thread Circusnuts_1999
Here's the DTE side (CAB-V35MT)... http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/pcat/sec1.htm#xtocid43 and here is the DCE side (CAB-V35FC)... http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/pcat/sec1.htm#xtocid40 or- buy this from one of many vendors on Ebay for $20 http://pacificcable.com/Picture_P

Re: WS-C1900C [7:42173]

2002-04-21 Thread Michael L. Williams
AFAIK, only if you're running Enterprise on the 1900s do you get the option [K] for command line, but I'm by no means the expert on this either Otherwise, it's menu-city, which isn't too bad once you learn your way around, but I still like the command line option. Mike W. "Steve Watson"

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Howard C. Berkowitz
>Howard, >I think I see where you're going. The default on the "DIO" >command is >applying an "E2" to the default as it is sent into the enterprise. It is >also >known that by order of preference that "E2" routes are least preffered. >So based >on your hint.. I'm thinking making use of t

Re: I took the beta (351-001) [7:42113]

2002-04-21 Thread Dennis Laganiere
If you're getting ready for the old version I've written some stuff you can grab for free from www.laganiere.net There's a document on doing RIFs, advice for perparation and a few other things I've put together. Let me know if it helps... Thanks... --- Dennis - Original Message - From

Re: Session Timeout [7:42145]

2002-04-21 Thread Michael L. Williams
Try, dialer idle-timeout seconds [inbound | either] see: http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ios121/121newft/121 t/121t2/dtidle.htm (watch for URL wrap) Also, we were having out dial-ups disconnect after a certain amount of time even if there was activity due to an "exec-t

WS-C1900C [7:42173]

2002-04-21 Thread Steve Watson
Does this switch have the IOS based CLI as well as the menu? I know the later 1900's do but am unsure of this earlier one. Thanks, Steve Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=42173&t=42173 -- FAQ, list archives,

Re: I took the beta (351-001) [7:42113]

2002-04-21 Thread Michael L. Williams
I was talking to the wife about that. I'd say (and I can't claim this is accurate, just thinking out loud) since the Beta isn't over until May 6th, and results won't come in until 6-8 weeks after that, I wouldn't expect to see the "new" version take over until July or after. but that's ju

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Nigel Taylor
Howard, I think I see where you're going. The default on the "DIO" command is applying an "E2" to the default as it is sent into the enterprise. It is also known that by order of preference that "E2" routes are least preffered. So based on your hint.. I'm thinking making use of the "metr

Re: I took the beta (351-001) [7:42113]

2002-04-21 Thread nettable_walker
4/21/20024:00pmSunday Any idea how long the old test will be out there ? I took it a month ago & failed by 4 questions. I was planning on retaking it in late May. Thanks, Richard // ""Dennis Laganiere"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I took the beta

Re: CCIE salary ?honest opinions please. [7:42166]

2002-04-21 Thread Patrick Bass
Which part of the world? ""datek44 lee"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hi All: > > Just wondering... > What's the average salary for CCIE in this market ? > > > thank you very much... > > I am finishing my CCNP, and very interest in CCIE cert. Message Posted

CCIE salary ?honest opinions please. [7:42166]

2002-04-21 Thread datek44 lee
Hi All: Just wondering... What's the average salary for CCIE in this market ? thank you very much... I am finishing my CCNP, and very interest in CCIE cert. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=42166&t=42166 -- FAQ,

Re: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread x
When I started out in computers I worked at an outsourced call center for various technical products. My performance was in fact rated on how many calls I took and how fast I got off the phone. I think most call centers work this way. They should be rated on whether or not the customer has to c

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Howard C. Berkowitz
At 2:19 PM -0400 4/21/02, Nigel Taylor wrote: >Yes, > >I forgot about the getting that default route into the enterprise >from the CE. That would leave the "default-information orginate" . > >Nigel Nigel, thanks for continuing this thread, because I'm finding the interaction very inform

confused about IPSec and IKE [7:42162]

2002-04-21 Thread x
I am studying for my CSS-1. The one area I am struggling with is IPsec and IKE. I took an example from Cramsession.com's MCNS study guide. There are similiar examples in the MCNS Cisco press book and the PIX advanced CIsco Press book. Here are the IPsec commands: crypto ipsec trasform-set test

MPLS book [7:42160]

2002-04-21 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Can someone let me know the details of Cisco press book(ISBN number,book name and author) for cisco MPLS exam. Kind Regards /Thangavel 186K Reading,Brkshire Direct No -0118 9064259 Mobile No -07796292416 Post code: RG16LH www.186k.co.uk ---

Re: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Kevin Cullimore
Generally, for the purposes of effecting scaleable call-tracking management, larger organizations tend to have explicit policies regarding call closure, specifying intervals of time which must elapse or a certain number of unanswered attempts to contact the customer in order to close a call witho

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Nigel Taylor
Yes, I forgot about the getting that default route into the enterprise from the CE. That would leave the "default-information orginate" . Nigel >From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" >Reply-To: "Howard C. Berkowitz" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario

Re: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Paul Jin
see inline - Craig Columbus wrote: > > In my experience, either side can close the case. > > I've had TAC close cases that were not even close to being > resolved. I > assume that there's some type of reward structure for closing > cases quickly. > Generally, the TAC should be asking the cus

Re: groupstudy... [7:42146]

2002-04-21 Thread NKP
msnews.microsoft.com -- Navin Parwal [EMAIL PROTECTED] ""Morgan Hansen"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I was just wondering... > > Could anyone tell me if Microsoft has any simular groupstudys anywhere? > > Thanx > > Best, > M

Re: MBA or CCIE [7:41809]

2002-04-21 Thread Chuck
It may be that there are some companies that ask you to sign agreements. I personally have not run into that in any of the four places I worked where there was a tuition reimbursement. These places were a large brokerage firm, a small brokerage firm, a major telco, and a well known clothing manufa

Re: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Keith Woodworth
On Sun, 21 Apr 2002, Steven A. Ridder wrote: |->Has anyone ever had TAC work on a weekend? How can I get an engineer on a |->weekend if I ever needed one? ive called on Satudays and gotten through. These days I open a case on the web as I can usually get a call back faster than if I call myself

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Howard C. Berkowitz
>See inline > > >>From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" >>Reply-To: "Howard C. Berkowitz" >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139] >>Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:08:21 -0400 >> >> >You can originate a 0.0.0.0 route from each of the ISP connected routers

RE: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Pierre-Alex Guanel
I called TAC this morning. I had no problem getting through. If you are in the US, the number is: 1 800 553 2447 Pierre-Alex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Steven A. Ridder Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] S

Re: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Chuck
I would presume that if you have a 7x24 onsite contract, you could expect engineering support on a weekend. Do you mean someone looking at configurations, checking for bugs, replacing failed hardware, what specifically? ""Steven A. Ridder"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PRO

RE: groupstudy... [7:42146]

2002-04-21 Thread xie rootstock
seems not Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=42149&t=42146 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Session Timeout [7:42145]

2002-04-21 Thread xie rootstock
of course, depend on which kind of timeout you are going to set Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=42150&t=42145 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct

RE: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Pierre-Alex Guanel
"I've had TAC close cases that were not even close to being resolved. I assume that there's some type of reward structure for closing cases quickly." It seems to me that the clients should close the case because they are the only one who can tell whether the problem has been resolved to their sa

groupstudy... [7:42146]

2002-04-21 Thread Morgan Hansen
I was just wondering... Could anyone tell me if Microsoft has any simular groupstudys anywhere? Thanx Best, Morgan Hansen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=42146&t=42146 -- FAQ, list a

Re: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Steven A. Ridder
Has anyone ever had TAC work on a weekend? How can I get an engineer on a weekend if I ever needed one? -- RFC 1149 Compliant. Get in my head: http://sar.dynu.com ""Craig Columbus"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > In my experience, either side can close the ca

Session Timeout [7:42145]

2002-04-21 Thread Jill Johnson
Is there a way to setup Session Timeout on Cisco AS5300? Thanks. Jill Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=42145&t=42145 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report

Re: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Craig Columbus
In my experience, either side can close the case. I've had TAC close cases that were not even close to being resolved. I assume that there's some type of reward structure for closing cases quickly. On another topic, has anyone had the experience that TAC is perhaps slipping a bit when it come

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Nigel Taylor
See inline >From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" >Reply-To: "Howard C. Berkowitz" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139] >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:08:21 -0400 > > >You can originate a 0.0.0.0 route from each of the ISP connected routers. > >Idea

Re: TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Michael L. Williams
Everytime I've had a TAC case, (YOU) the customer was the one who decided when the case was closed, not the TAC engineer... After all, it is YOUR network that has the problem and YOU need to figure out if it's fixed or not. HTH, Mike W. "Pierre-Alex Guanel" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTE

TAC [7:42141]

2002-04-21 Thread Pierre-Alex Guanel
You have worked with TAC on a case. The problem is resolved. Who will close the case? The TAC engineer or the customer Thanks, Pierre-Alex Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=42141&t=42141 -- FAQ, list archives, an

Re: Need Part # for DB60 DTE to DB60 DCE back to back crossover [7:42140]

2002-04-21 Thread Jason
The part number is that there isn't a part number because Cisco doesn't have such a cable. ""Jeffrey W. Hall"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Does anyone know what the Cisco part number of the DB60 DTE to DB60 DCE back > to back crossover cable? I realize the pa

Re: (correction) Method and Process Scenario 5: OSPF [7:42139]

2002-04-21 Thread Howard C. Berkowitz
>You can originate a 0.0.0.0 route from each of the ISP connected routers. >Ideally, then each router on your internal network that receives both >0.0.0.0 routes from both originating routers will route traffic to the >internet based on the the 0.0.0.0 route with the best metric. You're on the ri

How deep do I go? [7:42138]

2002-04-21 Thread Kris Keen
I'm studying for the written, and have really started to pick up the pace to try and get the old written complete before the new one comes in. Can anyone tell me what sort of detail is required? I've read chapters on most sections (ATM,Bridging) and from competing my CCNP, ISDN/Frame/OSPF/EIGRP/R

Re: Way OT: RE: CCIE Salary [7:42111]

2002-04-21 Thread Gaz
That's nothing! I bought a 4 bedroom detached house in Shropshire UK, and I have to share it with a woman, two children and two cats! I can't believe we can get something cheaper than the US. 8 pints over here is #1.80. Is your gallon the same size as ours? Please keep it quiet - I can see a ne

Re: MBA or CCIE [7:41809]

2002-04-21 Thread Kevin Cullimore
Fair enough. Thanks for elegantly depicting the real-world factors involved. I'll always bear a conceptual blind spot concerning individuals in that category, but I felt compelled to point out that the popular generalization, as usual, has issues where accuracy is concerned. I would never expect t

RE: Default Gateway and Ip Default Network [7:42099]

2002-04-21 Thread Rick Foster
GOL is the last resort tried by the router to send packets bound for unknown destinations. default network command, specifies the network (e.g. the ISP's network) to which the un-known destination packets will be forwarded to. This is particularly useful when you move frequently, but have a well

Re: FW: IDS 4210 [7:41864]

2002-04-21 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi, First of all configure the Sensor with the IP address through the console by using a menu driven utility called "sysconfig-sensor" and then use cspm to configure the other information by using Add new sensor Wizard. Kind Regards /Thangavel 186K Reading,Brkshire Direct No -0118 9064259 Mob

Re: MBA or CCIE [7:41809]

2002-04-21 Thread Kevin Cullimore
A point that might not have been adequately articulated thus far is as follows: Until the past couple of years, many CS programs had no mechanisms in place to ensure that a graduate would be of better value to a corporation requiring networking or troubleshooting skills than someone without a CS

Re: MBA or CCIE [7:41809]

2002-04-21 Thread nrf
""Chuck"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > one answer to your question might be that real management skills are still > required to run the business. > > another might be that the venture capitalists and the investment bankers > required what they deemed as qualifie

Re: MBA or CCIE [7:41809]

2002-04-21 Thread Kevin Cullimore
I'm not sure that the "limited education" part is accurate. Most extant accounts reveal that his (not-derived-from-an-accredited-institution, of course) education was profound enough to leave him bored, truly bored by the academic obligations imposed upon him during his year at Harvard. I'm tryin

Re: MBA or CCIE [7:41809]

2002-04-21 Thread Kevin Cullimore
A point that might not have been adequately articulated thus far is as follows: Until the past couple of years, many CS programs had no mechanisms in place to ensure that a graduate would be of better value to a corporation requiring networking or troubleshooting skills than someone without a CS

Re: MBA or CCIE [7:41809]

2002-04-21 Thread Kevin Cullimore
Fair enough. Thanks for elegantly depicting the real-world factors involved. I'll always bear a conceptual blind spot concerning individuals in that category, but I felt compelled to point out that the popular generalization, as usual, has issues where accuracy is concerned. I would never expect t