-Caveat Lector-
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
Why do you feel the need to play these little, crappy
rhetorical games?
MJ:
I am 'playing' no games.
Let us take the most basic example of late:
libertarian (lîb´er-târ´ê-en) noun
1. One who believes in freedom of action and thought.
-Caveat Lector-
"M.A. Johnson" wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
> Adam Smith recognized that there were some services which
> the "free market" cannot provide for citizens.
> MJ:
> What has Adam Smith to do with anything?
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
>
-Caveat Lector-
Of course, MJ, Bastiat and company cannot be classified as "libertarians."
However, all of them are often used BY libertarians to support their
philosophy...their writings provide excellent snippets and blurbs for
their missives. I can't remember ever hearing anyone mention Lysan
-Caveat Lector-
Why do you feel the need to play these little, crappy rhetorical games?
Come on,
MJ. Stop hiding behind your little one-liners and snippets.
What do you really believe in... ? What makes your spirit soar?
On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, M.A. Johnson wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> William
-Caveat Lector-
On 4 Jun 99, , M.A. wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
> There's always a certain percentage of the population that
> is unable to work for a variety of physical/psychological
> reasons...disabilities, mental health problems, etc.
>
> MJ
-Caveat Lector-
"M.A. Johnson" wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
>I find libertarianism to be not only a flawed approach to
>political and social issues...but also a dangerous one.
Libertarianism is immature and unnatural. But is not really
dangerous at all. I
-Caveat Lector-
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
A man or woman's character is meaningless in America. It
is the possession of wealth that matters. Of course, you
or I might judge individuals differently; but for the most
part, Americans judge and evaluate one another on the ba
-Caveat Lector-
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
Adam Smith recognized that there were some services which
the "free market" cannot provide for citizens.
MJ:
What has Adam Smith to do with anything?
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
Please clarify your position. Are you against All taxes?
-Caveat Lector-
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
Since you quote Bastiat, von Mises, Jefferson, Lysander
Spooner, Thomas Sowell with frequency, the connection
with libertarianism is rather obvious, isn't it?
MJ:
These persons are liberals and possibly libertarians in
the loose sense
-Caveat Lector-
I stand by my statement.
A man or woman's character is meaningless in America. It is the
possession of wealth that matters. Of course, you or I might judge
individuals differently; but for the most part, Americans judge and
evaluate one another on the basis of material possess
-Caveat Lector-
Adam Smith recognized that there were some services which the "free
market" cannot provide for citizens. Please clarify your position. Are
you against All taxes? You would like to abolish the government
altogether..or just eliminate those programs that you think are forms
of "s
-Caveat Lector-
Since you quote Bastiat, von Mises, Jefferson, Lysander Spooner, Thomas
Sowell with frequency, the connection with libertarianism is rather
obvious, isn't it?
Are you going to tell me that your values and philosophy are NOT shaped by
libertarian thought?
Ad hominem? On the co
-Caveat Lector-
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
Whenever this government tries to help people, it does a
miserable job. Why? Because in case you haven't noticed,
for the most part, Americans, in general, hate the poor
and the working class.
BULLSHIT.
Regard$,
--MJ
A man receiving c
-Caveat Lector-
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
I feel sorry for you, MJ, if you equate humanitarian
care for the elderly and the indigent with "stealing."
MJ:
I said no such thing. You confuse words with concepts AND
you also confuse CHARITY with government theft.
William Hugh Tuns
-Caveat Lector-
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
I find libertarianism to be not only a flawed approach to
political and social issues...but also a dangerous one.
extension of logical fallacy
MJ:
I have never claimed nor am I a Libertarian. I see your use of
ad hominem and the straw man run
n't want their internal dirty laundry
> exposed.
>
> I still say, that if I can buckle down, bail out of government programs
> with an
> injury, anyone can.
>
> And like I said, when we get some sanity in the White House, and in the
> other
> branches... we might
nstall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Say "NO" To Socialized Health Care Today!
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Eagle,
>I don't quite understand the post. You're mad because
!
>
> So, from experience, I disagree.
> Thanks for your comments though.
> I did enjoy reading yours and several others'.
>
> eagle1
>
> -Original Message-
> From: William Hugh Tunstall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTE
TED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Say "NO" To Socialized Health Care Today!
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Your points are well taken, E. There's always a certain percentage of the
>population that
-Caveat Lector-
MJ-
My earlier response to your post did not get through, I'm afraid. First
off, let me say that I do enjoy your input on CTRL...even though I don't
share your political philosophy, and I do think you are making a valuable
contribution to the list by giving us your thoughts on
-Caveat Lector-
I feel sorry for you, MJ, if you equate humanitarian care for the elderly
and the indigent
with "stealing."
We have a moral and ethical responsibility to care for
one another. Why do I believe this is the best policy? Perhaps, it
relates to centuries of social and cultural evo
-Caveat Lector-
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
There's always a certain percentage of the population that
is unable to work for a variety of physical/psychological
reasons...disabilities, mental health problems, etc.
MJ:
Does this provide them with a 'special right' to steal fro
-Caveat Lector-
Thanks for the informative posting, N. It appears that Baghdad-by-the-Bay
has turned into something of a bum trip.
I guess the S.F. of my childhood is gone.
But so is much of the rest of the United States. ...I'm old enough to
remember a time when every
American town did NOT h
-Caveat Lector-
>Insurance isn't that difficult to get. It's not that expensive either.
Shopping insurance plans may take a bit of effort, but affordable health
insurance is available.
Where I live (SF, CA) the cheapest way to go is Kaiser. It's cheap for a
reason. Kaiser care is far from opti
-Caveat Lector-
>You're right again...one of the principles of fascism is state and
"private sector" co-operation. Why advocate more of the same medicine?
I didn't. I don't. I wont. Ever.
Government can't meet our needs and business wont. We need to meet our own
needs. This will inevitably in
gaining interest for them, but not for you. (???)
>
> When you don't have social security to help you through the lean years of
> your
> senior life, (should you ever need that boost... )
> just remember and think about where it went.
>
> I still say "no" to na
-Caveat Lector-
I'LL SECOND YOUR [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
-Caveat Lector-
nessie wrote:
Not all of the "rest of the working class" CAN pay for
their own health care, at least not if they want to
also eat food, wear clothes and live indoors.
Keep their cell phones, two cars, beepers, credit cards ...
MJ:
Pfewww
Government
-Caveat Lector-
Nessie wrote:
>"So what shall we try? It'd better be something good,"
Let's try freedom...statism isn't working. Get the State off the heath
care professional's back so that they can do their work and off our back
so that we can afford their services.
>"a very real sense the s
upon America
again, and give her onelast chance to shape up before she's shipped
out to sea.eagle1-Original Message-From: nessie
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date:
Friday, June 04, 1999 2:15 AMSubject: Re: [CTRL] Say "NO" T
-Caveat Lector-
amen
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>>Strong and able-bodied parents, can work, and earn, and pay for their
>own health care, just like the rest of the working class do . . .
>
>Not all of the "rest of the working class" CAN pay for their own healt
rd may smile upon America again, and give her one
last chance to shape up before she's shipped out to sea.
eagle1
-Original Message-
From: nessie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Say "N
-Caveat Lector-
>Strong and able-bodied parents, can work, and earn, and pay for their
own health care, just like the rest of the working class do . . .
Not all of the "rest of the working class" CAN pay for their own health
care, at least not if they want to also eat food, wear clothes a
hink about where it went.
I still say "no" to national, socialized health care. It simply won't
work, because
there is a bigger generation formed and out there who doesn't want to work
to earn it.
eagle1
-Original Message-
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 1:29 PM
S
-Caveat Lector-
For affluent Americans, the adoption of a health care system comparable to
a European system (Norway or Sweden come to mind) would be a loss of
sorts
I think those fears are somewhat justified. How does one know that one
will receive quality care...the question of choice, e
-Caveat Lector-
> >
> > Yes, yes, yes. Canada's system sounds great to me. Prudy
It may sound great from another country but don't try living with it. All
of our best nurses and doctors get hired by wealthier US hospitals. Plus
the alleged universality of our system is anything but. Make sur
-Caveat Lector-
J2 offers no reasonable alternative. Just empty words with no meaning. A
conspiracy in of itself.
-A
nurev wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> "A.C. Szul Jr." wrote:
> >
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > FYI. Remember the Clinton's top-secret meetings on health care?
> >
> > Do you want
-Caveat Lector-
How so? The horror stories coming out of that country re health care is enuff to
make anyone shudder.
-A
"Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 05/28/1999 2:10:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Do you want long lines l
-Caveat Lector-
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>If health care is a "human right", then the rest of us should have a
>vested
>interest in your diet, exercize, not smoking, doing drugs etc. You can
>bankrupt us if you don't take care of yourself!
there is just not enough for everybody. som
-Caveat Lector-
If health care is a "human right", then the rest of us should have a vested
interest in your diet, exercize, not smoking, doing drugs etc. You can
bankrupt us if you don't take care of yourself!
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange
-Caveat Lector-
Bravo, Robert!
Byron T. Weeks, MD
~
Norse Knight wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
>
> >"I think we need a national health program.."
>
> My God, man, why would you want to entrust such an important service to
> incompetent non-professionals?
>
-Caveat Lector-
In other words, you want your neighbors [taxpayers] to pay your medical bills. If
health care become free to the applicant, he will have unlimited demands for it.
This will bankrupt ANY system of care. The problem is that socializing medical care
always greatly increases the cost
-Caveat Lector-
Both my grandmother and grandfather died of cancer back in the nineteen
sixties... After the hospitalization, the doctors and the cobalt
treatments.there
was nothing left of my grandparents's savings. Fortunately, they died
before they were penniless.
I think we need a nationa
-Caveat Lector-
If health care is a "human right" who will you punish for denying that right? Then
food and clothing , shelter, and chocolate cake should also be rights. Total
socialism. Total dependency upon government. I should think you people would have
learned by now that if the government
-Caveat Lector-
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
>"I think we need a national health program.."
My God, man, why would you want to entrust such an important service to
incompetent non-professionals?
>"My son has type one diabetes. Do you know how many insurance companies
are interested in coverin
-Caveat Lector-
>Well, you won't get your coronary bypass, nor often the necessary tests,
such as
anMRI, nor an expensive drug such as one that costs $2-3.00under the
Canadian
system.
You won't them here either, or anything else, if you're one of the forty
million with no coverage.
>Affluent
-Caveat Lector-
nessie wrote:
Affluent people of all nations get better health care than
the rest of us. This is an atrocity. Health care is a human
right.
MJ:
How so? For this to be true ... others MUST be slaves, victims
of theft and out and out raped so that 'everyone' has healt
-Caveat Lector-
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>For this to be true ... others MUST be slaves, victims
>of theft and out and out raped so that 'everyone' has healthcare --
>whatever that may entail.
How so?
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exch
-Caveat Lector-
MJ:
For this to be true ... others MUST be slaves, victims
of theft and out and out raped so that 'everyone' has
healthcare -- whatever that may entail.
nessie wrote:
How so?
MJ:
How will doctors, nurses, et al AND supplies be 'paid for'? Will
these people be FORC
-Caveat Lector-
Please, what is the law for this:
> Yes, recent medicare laws have prohibited any doctor who supplies
> medical services to *any* medicare recipient from providing
> services to *other* paying customers.
>
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informati
-Caveat Lector-
Bejamin Rush (at the time of ourFounding):
the time
will come when medicine will organize into an undercover
dictatorship to restrict the art of healing to one class of
men and deny equal privileges to others:
Prudence L. Kuhn wrote:
I think this time has already
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 05/29/1999 5:02:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Well, you won't get your coronary bypass, nor often the necessary tests,
such as
anMRI, nor an expensive drug such as one that costs $2-3.00under the
Canadian
system. Affluent Canadia
-Caveat Lector-
Yes, HMO's and Managed Care are the precursors.
Also the way physicians are apparently taught: that you have to go to a
specialist in a body part/organ if that is the site of your symptom. No room
for wholism. No room for genius. No room for a one-stop shopping either. I
do
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 05/29/1999 6:48:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< the time
will come when medicine will organize into an undercover
dictatorship to restrict the art of healing to one class of
men and deny equal privileges to others: >>
I think thi
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 05/29/1999 5:02:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Well, you won't get your coronary bypass, nor often the necessary tests,
such as
anMRI, nor an expensive drug such as one that costs $2-3.00under the
Canadian
system. Affluent Canadia
; for gun control,
and "NO" for national "socialized" health care!
Eagle 1 Forum
http://www.hotboards.com/powerforum/pwrforum.exe?who=eagle1
-Original Message-From: M.A. Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date:
S
-Caveat Lector-
Dr Byron Weeks wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Well, you won't get your coronary bypass, nor often the necessary tests, such as
> anMRI, nor an expensive drug such as one that costs $2-3.00under the Canadian
> system. Affluent Canadians come across the border for really complex
-Caveat Lector-
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>Yea, Joshua 2. Prudy
eventually the half that works had to kick in.
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These
-Caveat Lector-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Do you want long lines like what they experience in Canada,
under a socialized health care system?
Prudence L. Kuhn wrote:
Yes, yes, yes. Canada's system sounds great to me.
They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal
health car
-Caveat Lector-
Well, you won't get your coronary bypass, nor often the necessary tests, such as
anMRI, nor an expensive drug such as one that costs $2-3.00under the Canadian
system. Affluent Canadians come across the border for really complex care.
Dr. Byron Weeks
"Prudence L. K
-Caveat Lector-
Yea, Joshua 2. Prudy
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 05/28/1999 2:10:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Do you want long lines like what they experience in Canada, under a
socialized health care system? >>
Yes, yes, yes. Canada's system sounds great to me. Prudy
DECLARATION & DISCLAIM
-Caveat Lector-
We DO need a system of universal health coverage similar to Canada's
"socialized" system.
I think we should junk the wasteful, inefficient medical system that we
have now and replace it with a system that would be modeled after the
programs of the other industrialized nations of
-Caveat Lector-
"A.C. Szul Jr." wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> FYI. Remember the Clinton's top-secret meetings on health care?
>
> Do you want long lines like what they experience in Canada, under a
> socialized health care system?
Yes! Absolutely. What a great idea. A health care system like
-Caveat Lector-
FYI. Remember the Clinton's top-secret meetings on health care?
Do you want long lines like what they experience in Canada, under a
socialized health care system?
The heavily-mandated heath care bills the White House supports, along
with liberal lawmakers, will increase our hea
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