I'm happy to say that we got a consensus, see
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5771
Jacques
Le 21/10/2014 13:47, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
Pierre,
I agree, but it's not yet a vote, just a request to review for now ;)
Jacques
Le 21/10/2014 13:38, Pierre Smits a écrit :
Jacques,
The best way to resove issues. Surely, appreciated by many!
Thanks, Jacques.
Regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Jacques Le
Hi All,
Before I open a vote for this, please check
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5771
Jacques
Le 17/09/2014 08:50, Pierre Smits a écrit :
The first 'in person' hangout is at Apachecon 2014, in Budapest, Hungary.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services
Jacques,
This issue affects all users of OFBiz. I suggest to post the announcement
of the vote to all mailing lists. I also suggest to follow the ASF
conventions regarding announcements and voting.
Regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based
Pierre,
I agree, but it's not yet a vote, just a request to review for now ;)
Jacques
Le 21/10/2014 13:38, Pierre Smits a écrit :
Jacques,
This issue affects all users of OFBiz. I suggest to post the announcement
of the vote to all mailing lists. I also suggest to follow the ASF
conventions
The first 'in person' hangout is at Apachecon 2014, in Budapest, Hungary.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Paul Piper
Put that comment to a vote Anil. Let's see how many people you don't
even know that read and monitor these lists every day agree with you.
I quite liked the error log. I wasn't married to it - but it was
fairly handy to see if it was massive there was something amiss. If
there was a vote to keep
What a short sighted remark from someone who hasn't contributed to this
project as much as Jacques over the years. Not by a long shot.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
If i ever had any respect for you or your contributions, Anil, this would
have certainly put an end to it. Jacques is the reason many of us contribute
to the community and quite possibly the most friendly face around.
Anil Patel-3 wrote
Interesting, message.
I don’t know what you mean,
Where are the adults in this project?
This conversation has no business in a user forum.
If you need to vent or feel that a personal attack is required, do it on
Twitter or Facebook or better yet write yourself a memo and put it in a
drawer to read later (year or two).
If there is a serious
On Sep 16, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Ron Wheeler rwhee...@artifact-software.com wrote:
It seems that the key contributors might benefit from a collaboration session
with the whole multi-media support under the supervision of the chairperson
to get a team strategy and reinforce the team spirit that
On Sep 16, 2014, at 2:50 AM, Hans Bakker mailingl...@antwebsystems.com wrote:
...
Jacopo, please put it back and let everybody going back to the important
subjects?
Hans, I agree with you on this, there are more important subjects to deal with
and this error.log story has gone too far.
This sounds like a great idea to me Jacopo. I want to come to the hang outs!
The recent argumentative tone on the list is certainly not ideal, but IMO it is
at least evidence that there are many of us who care a lot about OFBiz and its
future. So we have that in common!
To spend some time
+1 on my end as well. It would allow us to answer newcomer-questions and also
make it easier to discuss important topics that have the tendency to get
heated.
--
View this message in context:
http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Where-is-the-error-log-gone-tp4654961p4655319.html
Sent from the
Even if you discuss substantial issues related to the project, you can
document the discussion in the mailing list and continue it there.
If you come up with something controversial, you might get more people
coming to the Hangout the next time.
Ron
On 16/09/2014 1:25 PM, Jacopo Cappellato
Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's
happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and
reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but
On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in identification
and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
methodology for
grep :ERROR ofbiz.log is too complicated? It achieves exactly the same
result.
Regards
Scott
On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote:
Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor
Cost more time, more money...
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Scott Gray scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com
wrote:
grep :ERROR ofbiz.log
How so?
Regards
Scott
On 15/09/2014, at 8:42 pm, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:
Cost more time, more money...
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz installations I can
assure you that the error.log is redundant and provides no true value over
ofbiz.log. As I've mentioned a few times now, OFBiz errors are regularly
worthless without knowledge of the context of the error which can
Similar like not having a balance sheet and income statement in an
accounting statement and putting it of with 'you can use a grep-equivalent'
to retrieve the information on the financial health of the organisation to
report to the stakeholders.
An automated process to generate an error.log file
We talk about lo4j2, you mean zgrep I guess?
Now consider this with no error.log
You have to
1) login (how many machines?)
2) move to runtime/logs directory (idem)
3) moving/searching in your preferred text editor is easier than in a terminal. So at this stage you might want to do rather zgrep
Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix or
wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way than you,
are you an OFBiz prophet?
Jacques
Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a
Not only that, but many of the larger organisations I have worked for had
automated processes in place that emailed the daily error logs to specific
officers, so that not only first level sys admins had that information. And
this had all to do with certifications, CRG, etc. And cost of operations
I'm not trying to force anything, I didn't make the change. I'm just stating
my opinion in this debate the same as you or anyone else. Even the change is
not about forcing anyone into a specific workflow, the debate is about making
sensible defaults for OFBiz. Changes can be made to suit
This is not just about the fact that changes can be made by anybody in
their own implementations. This is also a message to all prospective users
of OFBiz, and to the organisations who are trying to sell OFBiz as a
solution to their prospective customers.
'OFBiz doesn't have an error log OOTB' is
Jacques,
That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
*force* everyone to do things your way.
That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.
If you want the error log on your
I use ssh and terminal for all log research (until I need to dig deeply, in
which case I download the logs and split the them into individual threads,
again because context is so important). When I need to monitor logs for errors
connect via ssh and use tail + grep, after a deployment for
Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force* EVERYONE to
spend time and money to get it back in?
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15,
No one is being forced to configure their deployment - it is a process
(and cost) associated with EVERY OFBiz installation, regardless of the
outcome of this discussion.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/15/2014 11:14 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
Why *force* EVERYONE
Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but that's
debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong opinion
so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.
Regards
Scott
On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com
Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on you.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray
The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.
Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me wonder
whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
heart.
I agree the importance is in the arguments.
You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log settings
in a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have
pointed out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is
being forced to do it. In fact, only a
I am not debating your point that configuring log settings is a standard
practice. I am debating the mimimum that OFBiz provides OOTB and whether
that is good enough for the majority of the users.
I use OFBiz in my business. I offer it as a business solution to my
prospective customers, and I
And in finaly, why not just adding this :
Index: framework/base/config/log4j2.xml
===
--- framework/base/config/log4j2.xml(révision 1625001)
+++ framework/base/config/log4j2.xml(copie de travail)
@@ -1,4 +1,8 @@
?xml
The issue has been resolved, so yes - I am trying to get you to shut up
about it.
If you spent half as much time creating a configuration patch as you did
making your silly pointless arguments, then your customers and sysadmins
would have the log configurations they need.
Adrian Crum
Le 15/09/2014 14:29, Adrian Crum a écrit :
The issue has been resolved, so yes - I am trying to get you to shut up about
it.
I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and assigned it
to myself.
My plan is to propose and alternative log4j2.xml with some inline comments
I would be in favor of adding more comments if it will help end users
configure their local copy.
But keep in mind those comments remove the necessity of adding the error
log to the trunk - since they will know how to enable it themselves.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
On Sep 15, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and assigned it
to myself.
Don't mess up also with that; that ticket should be left closed. If you want to
continue to waste our time on the
Le 15/09/2014 16:13, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
On Sep 15, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and assigned it
to myself.
Don't mess up also with that; that ticket should be left closed. If you
Gentlemen,
seeing what Jacques is doing for OFBiz (what would ofbiz be without
him?), is it such a problem, he can have his error log ?
Because it was there and he thinks it is important, it is enough for me
to let himhave it.
Jacopo, please put it back and let everybody going back to the
Interesting, message.
I don’t know what you mean, IMO, OFBiz will be not be in bad shape if Jacques
was not doing what he is doing for OFBiz.
Regards
Anil Patel
On Sep 15, 2014, at 8:50 PM, Hans Bakker mailingl...@antwebsystems.com wrote:
Gentlemen,
seeing what Jacques is doing for
If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor
what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside
tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply
monitor an
On what basis?
Regards
Scott
On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:
I support reverting this regression.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On
On Sep 12, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:
That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
Yes, I like this option!
Jacopo
Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
But a JIRA issue of the improvement type with a patch might also do the
trick. Users can then decide whether they leave it as is, or implement the
patch and have more insight.
It helps the user.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing,
The point with embedded documentation (in OOTB files) is, as long as it's not in often changed files (where you have to be sure the documentation is
well maintained), you have it up to date at hand, without having to search online which might be not always available (like Git is now often
Interesting observations in that openhub evaluation. Something to think
about!
Didn't know it existed. How OFBiz is perceived by others should be part of
the considerations regarding future roadmaps and (short term) plans.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for
Le 12/09/2014 09:25, Pierre Smits a écrit :
Interesting observations in that openhub evaluation. Something to think
about!
Though it seems Openhub only refers to comments in Java, we have a lot of
comments in XML
It was just an example to explain why I'd like to follow Nicolas's suggestion
Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished
We could, as suggested
On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
log4j2.xml
Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging: it is a
specific one on not a generic one and so it is
I support reverting this regression.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato
jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep
Le 12/09/2014 11:29, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been trying
to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this thread (and
you did the same in at least
ok, if you want, call a vote
Jacopo
On Sep 12, 2014, at 11:44 AM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
Le 12/09/2014 11:29, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
If consensus can't be reached between the two of you, then a vote amongst
the community members would surely help find the direction we should follow.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
Services Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail Trade
Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2 commented
out sections for error.log
Agreed?
Jacques
Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
And for whom
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
Op 9 sep. 2014
On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished
We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml
On Sep 9, 2014, at 7:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
[...] On the other hand I can agree that having a lot of logs written can
slow down the system. And I guess that's the reason why Jacopo and you are
against multiplying them. [...]
This is not what I wrote in
Jacopo,
Thank you for mentioning the .svnignore and .gitignore commit - that
bothers me too. We should be ignoring things in the repo, not our
personal modifications.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/9/2014 7:20 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
On Sep 9, 2014,
Thanks Taher,
I'm aware of those and I sometimes indeed use msysgit for some exotic git
commands (there are so much), though I prefer to use TortoiseGit in much cases.
Scite is also fast and includes regex of course, I can use also Eclipse for that and Putty for SSH (I even recently found
Yes, I was maybe abusing there indeed. But note that I did not add a tool in the repo, only added something to ignore it. This should be transparent
to everybody.
Like for the desktop.ini entry in the .*ignore files I don't see a reason to not add a readymade patch for console.log. Again, it
On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not
going too far in our slimdown crusade?
This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this
ended up months ago.
Plus, that ignore setting commit benefits only one person - Jacques.
That concerns me because it appears Jacques considers the trunk to be
his personal project.
Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com
On 9/9/2014 9:12 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:
On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM,
Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going
too far in our slimdown crusade?
This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about
Le 09/09/2014 10:27, Adrian Crum a écrit :
Plus, that ignore setting commit benefits only one person - Jacques. That concerns me because it appears Jacques considers the trunk to be his
personal project.
I surely not, it's only that Git is missing the ignore-on-commit svn feature and I
Jacques,
you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.
Jacopo
On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
I
My answer was
What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in log4j2.xml
will make it messy
I just added a point about performance issue because I knew it would be the next argument on the table. Adding few lines in log4j2.xml does not stand
as an argument to me.
Jacques
Le
Jacques,
You still are not understanding what you are saying, and you are not
understanding our replies.
You are saying:
1. You want to change log settings because it benefits Jacques.
2. You want to change ignore settings because it benefits Jacques.
Jacopo and I are saying:
1. Every
Ok... Viewpoints are made clear.
But ask yourself this:
- What is better for the community, leaving it in or leaving it out?
Think of the default user, not of the exeption
- How much will it affect performance when left in or out?
In stead of opposing each other, find consensus for the
On Sep 9, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:
In stead of opposing each other, find consensus for the good of the project
and its community.
This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead
of changing stuff to fit committers' personal
I don't think that we should regard the committer of this project as the
default user of OFBiz. With respect to evaluating logs, it most often is
the system administrator. Again, think of the average user.
We also have to consider that not all development effort takes place in
this project, but
On Sep 9, 2014, at 12:54 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't think that we should regard the committer of this project as the
default user of OFBiz. With respect to evaluating logs, it most often is
the system administrator. Again, think of the average user.
Exactly: we
Le 09/09/2014 11:42, Adrian Crum a écrit :
Jacques,
You still are not understanding what you are saying, and you are not
understanding our replies.
Thanks for clearing my brain :D
You are saying:
1. You want to change log settings because it benefits Jacques.
2. You want to change ignore
Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead
of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
On some other projet (mostly on
Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead
of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on
And for whom
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
het volgende geschreven:
Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as
Hi,
I'm used to use the error.log to quickly look at errors in case.
It would be quite easy to add it again in log4j2.xml. Is there a reason it has
been removed OOTB?
Jacques
On Sep 8, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
Hi,
I'm used to use the error.log to quickly look at errors in case.
It would be quite easy to add it again in log4j2.xml. Is there a reason it
has been removed OOTB?
The only reason is to keep the default
Le 08/09/2014 14:20, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
On Sep 8, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
Hi,
I'm used to use the error.log to quickly look at errors in case.
It would be quite easy to add it again in log4j2.xml. Is there a reason it has
been removed
On Sep 8, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
Then, if nobody mind, I'd like to re-add the error.log concept
I prefer you don't but if I am the only one I would not object.
Jacopo
On 9/09/2014, at 2:59 am, Jacopo Cappellato jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep 8, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
Then, if nobody mind, I'd like to re-add the error.log concept
I prefer you don't but if I am the only one I would not object.
Le 08/09/2014 23:31, Scott Gray a écrit :
On 9/09/2014, at 2:59 am, Jacopo Cappellato jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep 8, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com
wrote:
Then, if nobody mind, I'd like to re-add the error.log concept
I prefer you don't but if
Hi Jaques,
I am not sure if this is helpful for your comments below .. but i know of
multiple software packages (git for windows which has msysgit for example)
that provide native linux tools on windows including grep and ssh (for
local and remote work).
Furthermore you can still download
86 matches
Mail list logo
