On 26 Jan 2005, at 12:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The thing is...and maybe someone can either affirm or deny this for
sure...on the Mac platform, the file is actually overwritten
permanently rather than what happens in Windows if I am understanding
correctly i.e. the information in the
This sounds right to me, as far as I can tell. When I have saved the
file, it saves with the wrong contents. If I change to Scroll View, or
redraw, or update, the proper contents seem to come back.
Weird.
Christopher
On Wednesday, January 26, 2005, at 09:04 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 26
Well, this is good to know! Maybe because more than one person was
working on a server when this happened in my situation, the files
were being saved before anyone noticed what was going on. But this
is good to know. I will definitely try this next time if it happens
again and pass the info
Christopher Smith wrote:
On Jan 23, 2005, at 4:54 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote:
Here are some more thoughts:
* Have you closed any documents prior to when the bug occurs?
Always.
* Have you had multiple windows for the same document opened?
Not me, in this case.
* Has any plug-ins been run that
On Jan 24, 2005, at 10:50 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
I would suggest adding (at least) another 256 MB of RAM to your
PowerBook. You will notice a considerable difference.
Enh, you know me. I have simple needs, and I'm not the sort of person
who craves speed. I don't perceive any problem
On 24 Jan 2005 at 22:45, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005, at 7:39 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
Has Darcy reported low memory as a part of his problems?
That's hard to say. I had 768 MB of RAM in my old Mac, but I also
routinely run Mail and Safari and iKey and DragThing and
On 24 Jan 2005 at 22:45, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005, at 7:39 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
Has Darcy reported low memory as a part of his problems?
That's hard to say. I had 768 MB of RAM in my old Mac, but I also
routinely run Mail and Safari and iKey and DragThing and RealPlayer
On Jan 23, 2005, at 12:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That should help...also,
Do you mind telling me how much RAM you have in your computer? You
can do this off list if you prefer. Thanks. I'm trying to get a
idea of what sorts of machines this is happening on...especially
memory specs.
(from Jari's reply to Christopher)
The questions was because it's the connection between the doc window
and the enigma document database that malfunctions before the
overwrite bug strikes. And I would assume that the first place to
look would be at places that in some way access the table (or
On 23 Jan 2005 at 20:22, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[quoting me:]
On 22 Jan 2005 at 21:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My theory is that at this point, there is a problem with the way
Finale has been programmed. . . .
I think *that's* indisputable!
. . . A problem, which results in
On 24 Jan 2005, at 7:39 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
Has Darcy reported low memory as a part of his problems?
That's hard to say. I had 768 MB of RAM in my old Mac, but I also
routinely run Mail and Safari and iKey and DragThing and RealPlayer and
iTunes along with Finale, and I often have 20+
On Jan 23, 2005, at 8:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I just looked back at a couple of posts one from Chuck and one from
Mark. Chuck mentioned that his system seemed to start to slow down
after a long Finale session and that is when the icon for the selected
tool in the tool palette turns
On Jan 23, 2005, at 12:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That should help...also,
Do you mind telling me how much RAM you have in your computer? You
can do this off list if you prefer. Thanks. I'm trying to get a idea
of what sorts of machines this is happening on...especially memory
specs.
Hi Mark,
With only 256 MB of RAM on your machine, memory is likely to be tight
even with only a single application open at any one time. OS X's
memory demands are considerable, and most people do not believe that
256 MB of physical RAM is sufficient even for casual, everyday use.
I would
Christopher Smith / 05.1.23 / 02:33 AM wrote:
I did not know that. You were right on to point that out to me. I ran
Terminal for the first time when Karen mentioned it a few posts ago.
There are a few useful tools:
MemoryStick:
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/13636
This will
On Jan 22, 2005, at 7:07 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote:
Perhaps it would be more productive if the Mac users who repeatedly
experience this problem analyzed (in detail) what they did _prior_ to
when the problem occured that is _different_ to what they do when it
does _not_ happen. It can be any
Safari leaks memory?
I don't think it does anymorebut it was a problem as far as I
know up until 10.3.5 and possibly 10.3.6. But I'm hearing that this
was fixed in 10.3.7.
I'm not exactly a computer geek, so I don't know what this means.
It is when an application, because of a bug, fails
Christopher Smith wrote:
Oh, we've tried! Here are some things that have cropped up, confirmed
and unconfirmed by others:
[...]
Here are some more thoughts:
* Have you closed any documents prior to when the bug occurs?
* Have you had multiple windows for the same document opened?
* Has any
On Jan 23, 2005, at 4:54 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote:
Christopher Smith wrote:
Oh, we've tried! Here are some things that have cropped up, confirmed
and unconfirmed by others:
[...]
Here are some more thoughts:
* Have you closed any documents prior to when the bug occurs?
Always.
* Have you had
A-NO-NE Music wrote:
Jari Williamsson / 05.1.23 / 04:54 AM wrote:
* Have you had multiple windows for the same document opened?
I even didn't know this is possible. I just tried, and sure enough,
Finale let you do this. But why?
It's an easy way to copy sections of a piece to another
A-NO-NE Music wrote:
Aaron Sherber / 05.1.23 / 11:33 AM wrote:
So you can easily copy music from one part of a document to another, for
example, by having two windows open and visible. This is not unusual; Word
lets you do the same thing.
Not on Word Mac version. If you try to open the same
Jari Williamsson / 05.1.23 / 00:41 PM wrote:
Not on Word Mac version. If you try to open the same doc, it will
replace the open one. In the effect, it does Revert to Saved.
In both Word and Finale (in Windows at least), you use Window/New Window
I see.
But Finale let you open the same doc
So you can easily copy music from one part of a document to another, for
example, by having two windows open and visible. This is not unusual;
Word
lets you do the same thing.
Not on Word Mac version. If you try to open the same doc, it will
replace the open one. In the effect, it does
On Jan 23, 2005, at 1:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[answering Christopher Smith]
Safari leaks memory?
I don't think it does anymorebut it was a problem as far as I know
up until 10.3.5 and possibly 10.3.6. But I'm hearing that this was
fixed in 10.3.7.
I'm not exactly a computer geek,
At 12:28 PM 01/23/2005, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
Not on Word Mac version. If you try to open the same doc, it will
replace the open one. In the effect, it does Revert to Saved.
Not *open* the same doc, just a new window. In WinWord, I can do Window |
New Window, which is exactly the same menu
David W. Fenton / 05.1.22 / 07:37 PM wrote:
Mac users are probably confused about virtual memory because of the
way it was bolted onto Mac OS as an extension that often conflicted
with applications.
You're now living in a completely different world, one where the apps
don't know anything about
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.23 / 05:14 PM wrote:
Apple's Darwin kernel is based on FreeBSD
I thought it was BSD, not FreeBSD, no?
--
- Hiro
Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com
___
Finale mailing
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.23 / 05:14 PM wrote:
Apple's Darwin kernel is based on FreeBSD
I thought it was BSD, not FreeBSD, no?
FreeBSDPanther is using FreeBSD 5.
Hiro, I'd love to hear more from you too about how Finale is using
memory...and this whole topic. You seem to know much about
On 23 Jan 2005 at 1:59, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
David W. Fenton / 05.1.22 / 07:37 PM wrote:
Mac users are probably confused about virtual memory because of the
way it was bolted onto Mac OS as an extension that often conflicted
with applications.
You're now living in a completely different
On 23 Jan 2005 at 11:49, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Jan 21, 2005, at 6:20 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 21 Jan 2005 at 23:15, Jari Williamsson wrote:
A-NO-NE Music wrote:
Someone pointed out the bug seems to be caused by the array
pointer, and I have the same feeling.
As I've
On 22 Jan 2005 at 21:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My theory is that at this point, there is a problem with the way
Finale has been programmed. . . .
I think *that's* indisputable!
. . . A problem, which results in the Overwrite
Bug, that when there is more memory in a machine, doesn't
On 22 Jan 2005 at 21:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My theory is that at this point, there is a problem with the way
Finale has been programmed. . . .
I think *that's* indisputable!
. . . A problem, which results in the Overwrite
Bug, that when there is more memory in a machine, doesn't occur.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.23 / 05:32 PM wrote:
FreeBSDPanther is using FreeBSD 5.
Ha-ha. Didn't know that :-)
It's kinda confusing since pre Jag had all the BSD man docs. I actually
never installed FreeBSD I bought so I even don't know if BSD and FreeBSD
shares man docs.
Hiro, I'd love to
Hi Jari,
FWIW, I have had the bug strike without doing any of these things. I
have also had the bug strike having done one or more of these things.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 23 Jan 2005, at 4:54 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote:
Christopher Smith wrote:
Oh, we've tried! Here are
Darcy James Argue wrote:
I have no idea if that's a workable solution, but I would like Coda to
at least *try* it. Since the problem with the corrupted pointers is
proving elusive, maybe it's time to address the root of the problem --
shared temp files. If the same temp files weren't shared
Darcy James Argue wrote:
I have no idea if that's a workable solution, but I would like Coda
to at least *try* it. Since the problem with the corrupted pointers
is proving elusive, maybe it's time to address the root of the
problem -- shared temp files. If the same temp files weren't shared
On 22 Jan 2005, at 7:07 AM, Jari Williamsson wrote:
Darcy James Argue wrote:
(Of course, they could also just fix the problem where the window
handle/ID starts to map to the wrong Enigma Doc ID, but apparently
that's easier said than done.)
But that's _exactly_ what they have to do!!!
Moving the
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
On 22 Jan 2005, at 9:13 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Darcy James Argue wrote:
I have no idea if that's a workable solution, but I would like Coda
to at least *try* it. Since the problem with the corrupted pointers
is proving elusive, maybe it's time
David W. Fenton wrote:
But it *has* happened to *me* on Windows -- I've never lost data, but
as I've said many times, I've seen the wrong data displayed for the
window titles (i.e., document names).
And I also saw this occasionally in FinWin2003, but I believe it was
fixed in FinWin2004. Or are
On 21 Jan 2005 at 18:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 21 Jan 2005 at 15:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.21 / 00:52 PM wrote:
[]
But I think that if the problem was solely due to an address bug,
it would happen more often. And problems with addressing is
On 21 Jan 2005 at 23:00, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
David W. Fenton / 05.1.21 / 06:10 PM wrote:
The programmers of OS X, you mean -- Finale knows nothing about
virtual memory, which is entirely handled by the operating system's
virtual memory subsystem.
Well, Finale might or might not, we won't
On 22 Jan 2005 at 16:18, Jari Williamsson wrote:
David W. Fenton wrote:
But it *has* happened to *me* on Windows -- I've never lost data,
but as I've said many times, I've seen the wrong data displayed for
the window titles (i.e., document names).
And I also saw this occasionally in
On 21 Jan 2005 at 18:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 21 Jan 2005 at 15:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.21 / 00:52 PM wrote:
[]
But I think that if the problem was solely due to an address bug,
it would happen more often. And problems with addressing is
David W. Fenton / 05.1.22 / 07:37 PM wrote:
Mac users are probably confused about virtual memory because of the
way it was bolted onto Mac OS as an extension that often conflicted
with applications.
You're now living in a completely different world, one where the apps
don't know anything
On Jan 20, 2005, at 7:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On my machine, I got to the paging stage with no other files open
(pictures, PDF's etc.) in the other applicationsjust files open in
Finale. Add PDF's pics etc in and I'll bet you are getting low on
free memory. Additionally, if there
On Jan 21, 2005, at 1:39 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
You might want to consider rebooting OSX time to time because the
number
of swapfile will not go away less than 4 or 5 until you reboot. OSX
needs about 1GB free space for vm stack, which can be eaten up quickly
when swapfile() accumulates 6-7 of
Christopher Smith / 05.1.20 / 08:32 AM wrote:
There's a kicker. I usually have a bunch of stuff open at the same
time, like AppleWorks, Mail, Safari, TextEdit, Preview, and maybe Word
or Excel. I typically only quit one of the first five apps or Finale
when it acts up (rare these days in OS X) or
On 20 Jan 2005, at 07:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Finale uses a lot of memory I have noticed. It uses a lot of
shared memory too which leads me to believe that the new graphics
are using up a lot of memory. I personally would trade the nice
graphics for having the program use less memory.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.21 / 00:52 PM wrote:
With Photoshop, it can be helpful to have the temp files stored on a
separate hard drive...not a separate partition but an actual separate
hard drive...things run a little more efficiently that way. Maybe
this could help Finale too.
The vm stack
A-NO-NE Music wrote:
Someone pointed out the bug seems to be caused by the array pointer, and
I have the same feeling.
As I've said earlier when this have been discussed, the window handle/ID
starts to map to the wrong Enigma Doc ID. I think that's pretty obvious,
but of course that doesn't
On 21 Jan 2005 at 1:23, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
Just to be clear,
Only the programmer knows how Finale is paging. For example, on my:
Dual-450/1.5GB 37.54MB RAM, 267.98MB vm
TiBook800/1GB 30.75MB RAM, but only 159MB vm
FinMac2005a (initial launch, one doc open) on OSX10.3.7 (cold boot)
On 21 Jan 2005 at 23:15, Jari Williamsson wrote:
A-NO-NE Music wrote:
Someone pointed out the bug seems to be caused by the array pointer,
and I have the same feeling.
As I've said earlier when this have been discussed, the window
handle/ID starts to map to the wrong Enigma Doc ID. I
Hi David,
I think the people who are blaming memory paging for the corruption
have a fundamental misunderstanding of the structure of a modern
operating system.
Just to be clear -- I'm not blaming memory paging for the corruption
and I don't think anyone else here is either.
What I'm suggesting
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.21 / 00:52 PM wrote:
With Photoshop, it can be helpful to have the temp files stored on a
separate hard drive...not a separate partition but an actual separate
hard drive...things run a little more efficiently that way. Maybe
this could help Finale too.
The vm stack is
On 21 Jan 2005 at 18:39, Darcy James Argue wrote:
I think the people who are blaming memory paging for the corruption
have a fundamental misunderstanding of the structure of a modern
operating system.
Just to be clear -- I'm not blaming memory paging for the corruption
and I don't think
Hi David,
Okay, I see what you are saying now -- I assumed that OS X was
accurately reporting the size of Fin temp files, whereas Windows was
just giving you zero KB for the whole temp files folder. But what you
say makes sense. I would like some confirmation from Coda about this,
though.
On 21 Jan 2005 at 20:02, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Okay, I see what you are saying now -- I assumed that OS X was
accurately reporting the size of Fin temp files, whereas Windows was
just giving you zero KB for the whole temp files folder. . . .
I'm just reporting how other database
On 21 Jan 2005 at 18:39, Darcy James Argue wrote:
I think the people who are blaming memory paging for the corruption
have a fundamental misunderstanding of the structure of a modern
operating system.
Just to be clear -- I'm not blaming memory paging for the corruption
and I don't think
On 21 Jan 2005 at 15:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 05.1.21 / 00:52 PM wrote:
[]
But I think that if the problem was solely due to an address bug, it
would happen more often. And problems with addressing is exactly what
can happen during a page fault...(when the working set
On Jan 20, 2005, at 12:46 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(lots of computer talk snipped)
So the questions I am still curious about are:
Is this a Mac specific issue? If not can the problem be replicated on
a windows machine and under what circumstances?
The only people I know of reporting this
On 20 Jan 2005 at 8:32, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Jan 20, 2005, at 12:46 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(lots of computer talk snipped)
So the questions I am still curious about are:
Is this a Mac specific issue? If not can the problem be replicated
on a windows machine and under
On Jan 20, 2005, at 12:46 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(lots of computer talk snipped)
So the questions I am still curious about are:
Is this a Mac specific issue? If not can the problem be replicated
on a windows machine and under what circumstances?
The only people I know of reporting this
On 20 Jan 2005, at 07:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Finale uses a lot of memory I have noticed. It uses a lot of shared
memory too which leads me to believe that the new graphics are using
up a lot of memory. I personally would trade the nice graphics for
having the program use less memory.
Damn -- I thought I had dodged the problem, but I got bit by it anyway
-- on a different file!
Here's the MacSupport note:
Hi Allen co.,
Just an update -- when I noticed the printing problem with the last
file, I tried opening a second instance of the file (without quitting
Finale), which
Hey Allen co,
One more thing:
I noticed a *drastic* performance improvement when I quit and restart
Finale compared to what I was getting during the session where the File
Overwrite bug hit, despite having exactly the same set of files open as
I did before. Redraws were easily twice as fast.
Darcy,
I, too was recently hit by the bug, Jan 14 to be precise. It was the
middle of the day, so I froze everything as soon as I noticed it, and
sent the message below. I had 14 files open. However, one thing I
noticed in this case - even though the score was showing Trombone 2,
when I
Dear Darcy,
You know, I might be experiencing similar degradation after long Finale sessions, I think things slow down a little, and then I begin to get the Finale icon covering the selected tool in the pallet (instead of just a highlight). I've become so used to this that I hardly notice and
On 19 Jan 2005 at 8:18, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Could there be a problem not only with the File Overwrite bug, but
with the Finale Temp Files getting bloated/corrupted over the course
of an extended Finale session, causing performance degradation AND
problems such as the File Overwrite bug?
On 19 Jan 2005 at 12:16, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[]
I'm now suspecting that when one has many files open at the same time,
(or in my case, when many people are working off one server) and auto
saves are happening, along with regular saves and the whole temp file
thing that Finale requires a
You should be able to figure out how much RAM Finale is using by
using your OS's version of TOP (on Windows you can use the Task
Manager for that). You should check RAM using before loading Finale,
RAM usage after loading Finale with no files, then check RAM usage as
you open more and more files,
CC: of message I sent to Allen and MacSupport, minus the attached files:
Hi Allen, guys,
Allen, I know you're going to NAMM but hopefully you get a chance to
look at this when you get back.
I think I may have an instance of the File Overwrite bug in action.
This is in Fin2005a. I have 22
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