On Jun 1, 2007, at 11:39 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
By "without a trace of irony or self-consciousness," I don't mean
he didn't use the phrase deliberately. Of course he did. But he
betrayed no awareness of the fact that "don't be a girlie-man" was
originally a catch-phrase intended to m
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Mark,
Please. There's a rather important difference between Schwarzenegger
quoting one-liners from his own films, and quoting a line he never
actually said in any of his films -- one which in fact comes from a
Saturday Night Live parody of his outsized public persona.
Mark,
Please. There's a rather important difference between Schwarzenegger
quoting one-liners from his own films, and quoting a line he never
actually said in any of his films -- one which in fact comes from a
Saturday Night Live parody of his outsized public persona.
What Schwarzenegger
On May 29, 2007, at 10:38 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Schwarzenegger picked it up from the Hans & Franz skit on SNL. So
yes, they were satirizing Schwarzenegger by throwing around the
term "girly-man," and then Schwarzenegger appropriated it and
started actually using the term himself, app
On May 31, 2007, at 10:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Later on when we'd grown up we used one lad as a dartboard, another we
tortured over a heating radiator and with lighted matches and the
real highlight
of my school career was hanging a lad from the classroom girders
(yes, really
hangi
In a message dated 31/05/2007 14:57:18 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
"Your class would have been put in the principal's office ;-)"
But we were only kids then!!!
Later on when we'd grown up we used one lad as a dartboard, another we
tortured over a heating radiator and
At 5/30/2007 06:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>In a message dated 30/05/2007 23:46:36 GMT Daylight
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>writes:
>
>"When I was a high jumper in high school, the world record holder in
>the high jump was Walt Davis, who took ballet classes during the off
>season to keep
In a message dated 30/05/2007 23:46:36 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
"When I was a high jumper in high school, the world record holder in
the high jump was Walt Davis, who took ballet classes during the off
season to keep his muscles in good shape. Nothing sissy there!!!
At 4:00 AM -0400 5/30/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As a child here in Lancashire UK (and elsewhere I'm sure), the term "Sissy"
was the standard word for someone, especially a child or young person, who
was soft, or effeminate or who pursued "un-manly" activities. The lad in our
class at schoo
...And I heard "bloody little twit" used in the same way whilst we
were in the UK.
Hal
As a child here in Lancashire UK (and elsewhere I'm sure), the term "Sissy"
was the standard word for someone, especially a child or young person, who
was soft, or effeminate or who pursued "un-manly" act
As a child here in Lancashire UK (and elsewhere I'm sure), the term "Sissy"
was the standard word for someone, especially a child or young person, who
was soft, or effeminate or who pursued "un-manly" activities. The lad in our
class at school who went for ballet lessons was the archetypal
www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html
- Original Message -
From: John Howell
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first national TV
appearance (1960)
At 7:24 AM -0400 5/29/07, Phil Daley wrote:
The sports n
2007 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first national TV appearance (1960)
At 7:24 AM -0400 5/29/07, Phil Daley wrote:
>
>The sports nut wife called the other kids "sissys" and "girly men".
>I wonder where that term came from? ;-)
Eithe
At 7:24 AM -0400 5/29/07, Phil Daley wrote:
The sports nut wife called the other kids "sissys" and "girly men".
I wonder where that term came from? ;-)
Either Laugh-In or Saturday Night Live. I forget which. Although it
may have been a more limited slang term before its TV exposure.
John
At 5/28/2007 02:46 PM, dhbailey wrote:
>> it.* It is still possible, of course, for an American to express disdain
>> of classical music--but there's no pat expression to do it with anymore.
>
>For many people, simply calling it "classical music" is enough. No need
>for a separate pejorative ter
stra
Music and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!!
http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html
http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html
- Original Message -
From: Dean M. Estabrook
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's fi
essage -
From: Dean M. Estabrook
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first national TV appearance (1960)
On May 28, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>
> On May 26, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
On May 28, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On May 26, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
Snip
Whoa! Don't go off the deep end. First of all, notice the dates: I
was talking about those active in roughly the first half of the
20th c., and not all of them. The best estimate I have
Andrew Stiller wrote:
[snip]
it.* It is still possible, of course, for an American to express disdain
of classical music--but there's no pat expression to do it with anymore.
For many people, simply calling it "classical music" is enough. No need
for a separate pejorative term.
--
David H
On May 26, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
At 12:41 PM 5/26/2007, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>IMO the cultural shift has been in the opposite direction. The
>fundamental antipathy among ordinary Americans toward classical music
>has its origins in the country's founding. In the 18th c., almost
At 11:49 PM 5/26/2007, Christopher Smith wrote:
>
>On May 26, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
>
>> Rock music is non-tonal? That's news to me. Doesn't it do 1-4-5-1?
>
>Not too much of it these days. I guess you don't put on a radio very
>often (not that I blame you for that) but I have a t
On May 27, 2007, at 5:48 PM, dhbailey wrote:
Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
I perceive that there is a hang up on this thread, that we gotta
have a leading tone present to qualify for tonality. Tonality can
also be established by just plain harmonies or single chords. If
you have a perfect fift
On May 27, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
Perhaps it may be a geeky pecadillo on my part, but "tonal"
requires that
the tonal center (or the tonal center of the moment, as it may be) be
established by it's own dominant and leading tone (thank you IU theory
department!). So modal (in
age -
From: "dhbailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first national TV appearance (1960)
> Aaron Rabushka wrote:
> > Perhaps it may be a geeky pecadillo on my part, but "tonal" requires
that
>
On 27 May 2007 at 12:45, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
> I perceive that there is a hang up on this thread, that we gotta have
> a leading tone present to qualify for tonality. Tonality can also be
> established by just plain harmonies or single chords. If you have a
> perfect fifth, or perfect four
On 27 May 2007 at 15:35, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> At 01:44 PM 5/27/2007 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >On 26 May 2007 at 22:51, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> >
> >> "Star Wars" with John Williams's retro-heist from "The
> >> Private Lives of Elizabeth and Essex".
> >
> >I thought it was fro
Sorry ... grad school coming back to haunt me er, us. At least I
didn't follow it with a QED.
Dean
On May 27, 2007, at 2:48 PM, dhbailey wrote:
Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
I perceive that there is a hang up on this thread, that we gotta
have a leading tone present to qualify for tonali
At 12:00 PM 5/26/2007, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>I don't have any answers, but there is a cultural shift that isn't limited
>to the US. The post below appeared on the Two New Hours list a few days ago
>(Larry Lake is the host of Two New Hours, canceled in March after a quarter
>century on the
Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
I perceive that there is a hang up on this thread, that we gotta have a
leading tone present to qualify for tonality. Tonality can also be
established by just plain harmonies or single chords. If you have a
perfect fifth, or perfect fourth in a vertical aggregate, you
At 12:41 PM 5/26/2007, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>IMO the cultural shift has been in the opposite direction. The
>fundamental antipathy among ordinary Americans toward classical music
>has its origins in the country's founding. In the 18th c., almost all
>classical music was commissioned by royalty o
Aaron Rabushka wrote:
Perhaps it may be a geeky pecadillo on my part, but "tonal" requires that
the tonal center (or the tonal center of the moment, as it may be) be
established by it's own dominant and leading tone (thank you IU theory
department!). So modal (including the pentatonic modes with
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 01:44 PM 5/27/2007 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 26 May 2007 at 22:51, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
"Star Wars" with John Williams's retro-heist from "The
Private Lives of Elizabeth and Essex".
I thought it was from King's Road?
Maybe both? I don't know the
At 2:40 PM -0400 5/27/07, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
Perhaps it may be a geeky pecadillo on my part, but "tonal" requires that
the tonal center (or the tonal center of the moment, as it may be) be
established by it's own dominant and leading tone (thank you IU theory
department!).
Well, unfortunate
At 12:12 PM -0400 5/27/07, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On May 26, 2007, at 9:09 PM, John Howell wrote:
Andrew wrote:
And another thing: non-tonal and atonal are not synonyms.
I often agree with Andrew and respect his depth of knowledge, which
goes well beyond my own, and with this I can definite
H, your point is well taken ... I too do not know the answer for
sure. Either way, it sounds to me as if you had one hell of a
program in place for those young people, for which you are to be
commended.
Dean
On May 26, 2007, at 8:13 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 12:02 PM 5/2
I perceive that there is a hang up on this thread, that we gotta have
a leading tone present to qualify for tonality. Tonality can also be
established by just plain harmonies or single chords. If you have a
perfect fifth, or perfect fourth in a vertical aggregate, you have,
according to Sc
At 01:44 PM 5/27/2007 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote:
>On 26 May 2007 at 22:51, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>
>> "Star Wars" with John Williams's retro-heist from "The
>> Private Lives of Elizabeth and Essex".
>
>I thought it was from King's Road?
Maybe both? I don't know the latter, but I have the
s performance where no parent complained a bit
about the atonality being produced?
Aaron J. Rabushka
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
- Original Message -
From: "John Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Fi
On 26 May 2007 at 22:51, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> "Star Wars" with John Williams's retro-heist from "The
> Private Lives of Elizabeth and Essex".
I thought it was from King's Road?
--
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA
At 10:48 PM -0400 5/26/07, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
Hmm--I never heard of Charles Whittenberg, but if he sounds like me he must
have something on the ball! And yes, there was chromaticism before Wagner
(late Gesualdo madrigals, anyone?). Or Lasso's Sybillene Prophecy music?
(remember those, John H?)
At 10:43 PM -0400 5/26/07, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
So does "non-Western" include Appalachian fiddle tunes (often not tonal)
OH? Not what I've heard. Very tonal, unless of course you discount
modality. And very much tied to the open strings for tonal centers.
John
--
John & Susie Howell
Vi
On May 26, 2007, at 9:09 PM, John Howell wrote:
Andrew wrote:
And another thing: non-tonal and atonal are not synonyms.
I often agree with Andrew and respect his depth of knowledge, which
goes well beyond my own, and with this I can definitely agree. But
again, I read in his comments tha
Aaron Rabushka wrote:
Not to mention the Bach chorale the Berg literally quotes in the second
movement. I've always been fascinated how his violin concerto can seduce and
convine people who think they don't like 20th-century music.
They're the same people who love movie music but hate concert
Christopher Smith wrote:
On May 26, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
Rock music is non-tonal? That's news to me. Doesn't it do 1-4-5-1?
Not too much of it these days. I guess you don't put on a radio very
often (not that I blame you for that) but I have a thirteen year old, so
I hear
Phil Daley wrote:
At 01:04 PM 5/26/2007, David W. Fenton wrote:
>On 26 May 2007 at 12:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>
>> I cannot, for example, imagine any
>> American boy nowadays being denounced as a "fairy" because he played
>> the clarinet.
>
>You must live in an entirely different world
On May 26, 2007, at 6:09 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
I appreciate these words thank you. From the sense I make of
it, "atonal" and "no-tonal" come to mean pretty much the same
thing, i.e., lack of a tonal center due to the avoidance of leading
tone progressions and harmonies built of
On May 26, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
Rock music is non-tonal? That's news to me. Doesn't it do 1-4-5-1?
Not too much of it these days. I guess you don't put on a radio very
often (not that I blame you for that) but I have a thirteen year old,
so I hear things that I might not
At 12:02 PM 5/26/2007 -0700, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
>I would think, if anything, that their views would widen when exposed
>to tonal music, IF they had the previous training you gave them.
Just to clarify, though I taught music, I didn't give them training in the
traditional sense. I gave them
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
- Original Message -
From: "Phil Daley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first national TV appearance (1960)
> At 01:09 PM 5/26/2007, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
>
> >
lassical
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
- Original Message -
From: "Phil Daley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first national TV appearance (1960)
> At 10:46 PM 5/25/2007,
At 12:41 PM 5/26/2007 -0400, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>IMO the cultural shift has been in the opposite direction. The
>fundamental antipathy among ordinary Americans toward classical music
>has its origins in the country's founding. In the 18th c
[...]
>Prior to 1960, most Americans lived their enti
- Original Message -
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first national TV appearance (1960)
>
> On May 26, 2007, at 2:44 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
>
> > Ple
On May 26, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
Rock music is non-tonal? That's news to me. Doesn't it do 1-4-5-1?
No it doesn't. The vast majority of rock music is cast in the dorian
or mixolydian modes, neither of which possesses a leading tone.
Furthermore, it is derived from the 12-
John Howell ended this particular post with:
"Yes, I have appeared to argue otherwise in the past. So?? If you want
consistency, go find a fundamentalist Republican!!"
And Les just had to say:
John - thank you for a wonderfully great, ROTFLMGO line!
Best,
Les
Les Marsden
Founding Music D
On May 26, 2007, at 1:33 PM, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra (Les Marsden)
wrote:
In the mid-to-late 1800s American symphony orchestras and opera
companies were sprouting everywhere;
There *were* no American symphony orchestras in the mid-late 19th c.
except for the NY Phil and Theodore Tho
At 3:42 PM -0400 5/26/07, Christopher Smith wrote:
On May 26, 2007, at 2:44 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
Please define "Non -Tonal."
There are several definitions in current use of "tonal" and
"atonal", none very strict nor all-encompassing. Depending on which
one for "tonal" you are using,
At 01:13 PM 5/26/2007, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
>I've always found it interesting that young children can often groove on
>music that their older siblings don't consider hip and their parents may not
>even consider music. Case in point: my youngest brother who never griped
>about music I was listen
On 26 May 2007 at 18:11, Phil Daley wrote:
> At 01:04 PM 5/26/2007, David W. Fenton wrote:
>
> >On 26 May 2007 at 12:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> >
> >> I cannot, for example, imagine any
> >> American boy nowadays being denounced as a "fairy" because he
> played >> the clarinet. > >You must
At 01:04 PM 5/26/2007, David W. Fenton wrote:
>On 26 May 2007 at 12:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>
>> I cannot, for example, imagine any
>> American boy nowadays being denounced as a "fairy" because he played
>> the clarinet.
>
>You must live in an entirely different world than *I* live in!
Please
I did an aleatoric piece with my middle school band (no, I didn't
like it, I thought it was important to expose them to other music
ideas).
you should try some of your own teaching sometime (you know, that bit
about exposure).
I don't think anyone in the audience (even the parents) liked i
I am just trying to point out what a majority of the people who
actually listen to classical music think.
hey phil thanks for representing me buddy.
get your facts straight.
better yet, get some facts.
--
shirling & neueweise ... new music publishers
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://n
At 01:29 PM 5/26/2007, John Howell wrote:
>So I think Dennis's point might best be interpreted in this way:
>Inundation with tonality is there and is unavoidable. There's no
>"maybe later" about it! But young minds and young ears ARE open to
>more than one kind of music, or more than one kind o
On 26 May 2007 at 11:47, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:
> On 26 May 2007 at 10:33, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:
>
> > In the mid-to-late 1800s American symphony
> > orchestras and opera companies were sprouting everywhere; every
> last > small town had its Opera House which was r
I appreciate these words thank you. From the sense I make of it,
"atonal" and "no-tonal" come to mean pretty much the same thing,
i.e., lack of a tonal center due to the avoidance of leading tone
progressions and harmonies built of fourths and fifths, which tend to
announce a tonal cen
At 01:09 PM 5/26/2007, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
>Wait a minute--how can anyone be wrong about what they like? Like any great
>composer Bach offers more than just a single attribute, and I think that all
>three comments here are very perceptive. When people make blanket statements
>to the effect that
On 26 May 2007 at 19:49, João Miguel Pais wrote:
> > This old chestnut is not really true. Bach's keyboard music, for
> > instance, never quite disappeared. And in Leipzig, he was well-known
> > and his music was studied and played. The Allgemeine musikalische
> > Zeitung (published by Breitkopf)
At 10:46 PM 5/25/2007, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>And another thing: non-tonal and atonal are not synonyms. Most music,
>in fact, is non-tonal: Medieval and Renaissance music, non-Western
>music (all of it), rock music...
Rock music is non-tonal? That's news to me. Doesn't it do 1-4-5-1?
>Being
At 11:19 AM 5/26/2007, João Miguel Pais wrote:
>By the way, JS Bach's music wasn't played almost at all in his last years,
>and it pratically disappeared until Mendelsson picked it up later
>(Beethoven and Mozart only got to some scores late in their lives). His
>contemporaries found it too far-f
I got the humor, if it's any consolation, Randolph.
RBH
Randolph Peters wrote:
> Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:
Sure, I like Bach; I marvel especially at his contrapuntal
creativity; I enjoy the sound of his music.
Andrew Stiller wrote:
Me, I like his grinding dissonances!
dhbai
At 6:50 AM -0400 5/26/07, dhbailey wrote:
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
[snip]>
Kids aren't fixed. Maybe later, when inundated with tonality, their aural
view will narrow. But it doesn't start out that way.
How true that is! What's that line from South Pacific about kids
having to be taught to
On May 26, 2007, at 4:11 PM, Randolph Peters wrote:
If only I had used the emoticon for irony...
Could this be it?
/ ***
/*|
/|
*
Christopher ;-)
___
Finale mailing lis
> Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:
Sure, I like Bach; I marvel especially at his contrapuntal
creativity; I enjoy the sound of his music.
Andrew Stiller wrote:
Me, I like his grinding dissonances!
dhbailey wrote:
I like the percussiveness of so much of it...
And I say:
> You're all
On May 26, 2007, at 2:44 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
Please define "Non -Tonal."
There are several definitions in current use of "tonal" and "atonal",
none very strict nor all-encompassing. Depending on which one for
"tonal" you are using, "non-tonal" would just be everything else that
H in the school at which I taught, playing the clarinet was
minimally acceptable, singing in the choir was (if male)
automatically classified as an all gay activity, and playing any
sport was an instant ticket to the adulation of 90%of your peers.
Unfortunately, I was the choral di
Please define "Non -Tonal."
Dean
On May 25, 2007, at 7:46 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On May 25, 2007, at 7:04 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
I agree. But if it's non-tonal, it's not good.
Really? Berg's violin concerto is not good? Wozzeck and Lulu are
not good? *All* of Varèse is not good? Thr
I would think, if anything, that their views would widen when exposed
to tonal music, IF they had the previous training you gave them.
Dean
On May 26, 2007, at 3:50 AM, dhbailey wrote:
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
[snip]>
Kids aren't fixed. Maybe later, when inundated with tonality,
their a
estra
Music and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!!
http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html
http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html
- Original Message -
From: David W. Fenton
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first na
On 26-May-07, at 1:04 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 26 May 2007 at 12:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
I cannot, for example, imagine any
American boy nowadays being denounced as a "fairy" because he played
the clarinet.
You must live in an entirely different world than *I* live in!
Not me!
In
This old chestnut is not really true. Bach's keyboard music, for
instance, never quite disappeared. And in Leipzig, he was well-known
and his music was studied and played. The Allgemeine musikalische
Zeitung (published by Breitkopf) has mentions of Bach's music as
early as the first volume, in 179
On 26 May 2007 at 10:33, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:
> In the mid-to-late 1800s American symphony
> orchestras and opera companies were sprouting everywhere; every last
> small town had its Opera House which was routinely sold out when a
> Jenny Lind or Louis Moreau Gottschalk came through.
http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html
http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html
- Original Message -
From: Andrew Stiller
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first national TV appearance (1960)
On May 26, 2007, at
At 8:42 PM -0400 5/25/07, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
I taught elementary school music for six years.
[snip]
Beyond that, imagine eight-year-olds watching the complete ballet version
of "Rite of Spring" (on video) or going to a performance of "A Soldier's
Tale" -- both attended in rapt silen
May 26, 2007 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first national TV appearance (1960)
> > >Phil -- in my experience, it's not whether a piece is new or old, but
> > simply
> > >if it's and .
> >
> > I agree. But if it's non-tonal,
MAIL PROTECTED]
http://users.waymark.net/arabushk
- Original Message -
From: "Randolph Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: John Cage's first national TV appearance (1960)
> Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wro
On 26 May 2007 at 12:41, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> I cannot, for example, imagine any
> American boy nowadays being denounced as a "fairy" because he played
> the clarinet.
You must live in an entirely different world than *I* live in!
--
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
Dav
On May 26, 2007, at 12:00 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 09:14 PM 5/25/2007 +0200, shirling & neueweise wrote:
this kind of generalization about the state of
new music really disappoints me, and i have to
admit, i come across it more from americans than
any other population
This seems to
On 26 May 2007 at 17:19, João Miguel Pais wrote:
> By the way, JS Bach's music wasn't played almost at all in his last
> years, and it pratically disappeared until Mendelsson picked it up
> later (Beethoven and Mozart only got to some scores late in their
> lives).
This old chestnut is not real
At 09:14 PM 5/25/2007 +0200, shirling & neueweise wrote:
>this kind of generalization about the state of
>new music really disappoints me, and i have to
>admit, i come across it more from americans than
>any other population
This seems to be my experience. The differences are sometimes striking
>Phil -- in my experience, it's not whether a piece is new or old, but
simply
>if it's and .
I agree. But if it's non-tonal, it's not good.
Oh. What do you have against folk and pre-baroque music? In which terms
are they related to [not-so-]contemporary[-anymore] music, that it brings
On May 25, 2007, at 11:30 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Andrew,
Why are you wasting your time? Of course Phil wants to go there. His
musical tastes ossified at age seven, and he's actually proud of that
fact. I feel rather sorry for him that he's grown so attached to his
blinkers, but, what'
Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:
Sure, I like Bach; I marvel especially at his contrapuntal
creativity; I enjoy the sound of his music.
Andrew Stiller wrote:
Me, I like his grinding dissonances!
dhbailey wrote:
I like the percussiveness of so much of it...
And I say:
You're all wrong!
-R
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Andrew,
Why are you wasting your time? Of course Phil wants to go there. His
musical tastes ossified at age seven, and he's actually proud of that
fact. I feel rather sorry for him that he's grown so attached to his
blinkers, but, what'cha gonna do?
I never look o
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
[snip]>
Kids aren't fixed. Maybe later, when inundated with tonality, their aural
view will narrow. But it doesn't start out that way.
How true that is! What's that line from South Pacific about kids having
to be taught to learn hate before they're six or seven or
Andrew Stiller wrote:
On May 25, 2007, at 3:15 PM, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:
Sure, I like Bach; I marvel especially at his contrapuntal creativity;
I enjoy the sound of his music.
Me, I like his grinding dissonances!
I like the percussiveness of so much of it -- I used to use it
Andrew Stiller wrote:
On May 25, 2007, at 9:19 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
And so it is at the heart of answering the prosaic question of why
music as
art differs from music as commerce. There is only one moment of
transformation, one pivot-point, that belongs to a work of art.
Fascinat
Andrew Stiller wrote:
On May 25, 2007, at 1:20 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
All of these people would benefit from absorbing the message of
Wagner's Meistersinger.
That people should support German composers???
No, that people should bring comfortable cushions to sit on for so long.
--
D
I felt like saying nearly the same words to Andrew, also, but I
appreciated reading his post, because he makes such good arguments -
including that excellent Louvre guard line which I had not heard before.
RBH
Darcy James Argue wrote:
Andrew,
Why are you wasting your time? Of course Phil
Andrew,
Why are you wasting your time? Of course Phil wants to go there. His
musical tastes ossified at age seven, and he's actually proud of that
fact. I feel rather sorry for him that he's grown so attached to his
blinkers, but, what'cha gonna do?
Cheers,
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED
On May 25, 2007, at 7:04 PM, Phil Daley wrote:
I agree. But if it's non-tonal, it's not good.
Really? Berg's violin concerto is not good? Wozzeck and Lulu are not
good? *All* of Varèse is not good? Three of the four movements of
Ives' fourth symphony are not good? Pierrot Lunaire and Er
At 06:03 PM 5/25/2007 -0400, Andrew Stiller wrote:
>Fascinating. I have always thought about it oppositely: that a pop tune
>gives up all its secrets on one listening, whereas with a classical
>piece there are often new insights with every hearing.
Yes, for the most part I agree (pop music has '
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