This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 11/30/99 11:36:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
writes:
the problem many people
run into is that they buy a green horse and figure they will train him
or have him trained.
Yep, that's me and it was dumb. But do
as a single driving horse.
'Cause,hey, they drive don't they?...Then the trouble starts.
I have never driven a horse by myself, but if seems to me that if you had an
older experienced horse to hitch beside a greeny you could train both single
and double driving under controlled situations
, that if you have access to an experienced driving
horse to start a greenie out with, great! A woderful part of the whole
education process. But,never neglect the slow,and to some, (from the tone of
your post), boring variations of groundwork. It creates a far more
autonomous and confidant driving
This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am coming into this whole driving discussion a little late, sorry!
I am really glad that you were not seriously injured, Robert. I know the
psychic damage is the real un-doing in this whole mess.
Cynthias comments about working
This message is from: William Kelley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jean Gayle wrote:
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I usually chuckle when I see big adults driving those miniature carts and
mini horses. But now I think that if they made miniature fjords I would
start driving them
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Concerning the discussion of driving and safety, I wanted to relate the
experience I am having with my 7 yr. old Fjord gelding.
I sent him to a good trainer about 3 months ago. He was a horse that had been
ridden and did know how to longe, but had never
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I usually chuckle when I see big adults driving those miniature carts and
mini horses. But now I think that if they made miniature fjords I would
start driving them..It seems to me that if they got out of control you could
just set your hands
it might bear
repeating for new folks.
I left your message whole, it bears repeating. Ruthie Bushnell
At 02:58 PM 11/30/99 -0500, you wrote:
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The latest scary stories about wrecks that have occurred when
working with green driving horses has reaffirmed my
This message is from: Cynthia_Madden/OAA/UNO/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OK, I will tell the story soon, but I think Steve is being really mean, because
he always tells me that when I tell people it makes me look really dumb! and
here he is wanting me to tell it to the whole list. So look forward soon to
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The latest scary stories about wrecks that have occurred when
working with green driving horses has reaffirmed my belief that a
green horse, even one which is never planned to be driven as part
of a team, should nonetheless be initially trained
on the ground; ground driving, leading, manners, grooming
- just really getting to know him.
Robert - what a scarry situtation! Glad you are not hurt badly and same for
your Fjord. When I first got my QH I fell off, in an arena - then, a few
months later it happened again - I decided I was just
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ok, Cynthia,
Now you gotta tell us all about the jumping cart!
Jean
At 11:31 AM 11/30/1999 -0600, you wrote:
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jean--
Tuesday, November 30, 1999, you wrote:
...he just leaned on them and
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jean--
Tuesday, November 30, 1999, you wrote:
...he just leaned on them and bolted for the gate!. Surely he'll
stop for the gate!! I thought as we neared it...but no, HE JUMPED
the gate! But carts don't jump!...
Not necessarily true!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 11/30/99 8:19:42 Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I also just rented a tape on clicker training that I can't
wait to try some things. I'm still green, but I'm not as green as I was.
There is a program on today on
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm afraid of driving. The BDF tape said, as I remember, that you have to
ground drive for months and months and months before you actually graduate to
a vehicle. But will everybody out there who has never done anything stupid
please raise their hand
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi all,
Considering the discussion of the recent driving
accident experienced by a list member reminded me of
something we sometimes tend to forget - especially
when working with a breed of horses that is touted to
be able to do it all. We
This message is from: Cynthia_Madden/OAA/UNO/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am sorry to hear about your incident with Redford and I am glad your physical
injuries are minimal. I have been there and done that with my Morgan. I did
eventually have to give up driving him. I know the incident is very serious
. But Martha thinks he
won't be suitable for driving. We think he bolted not out of fear but
because of attitude.
Robert...
Oh my!! What a horrible accident. I can totally understand taking things
very, very slowly after something like this happening. It had to have been one
of the most
This message is from: Bushnell's [EMAIL PROTECTED]
That sounded like a terrible experience Robert. How well we all know
lessons in caution can be mighty painful.
There was a John Lyons sample periodical a few months ago in which he
stated that driving is more dangerous than riding; more
that Fjord bee
that stung some of your horses! SHE ALSO THINKS HE'S TO OLD (5YRS)
TO LEARN TO DRIVE.
SHE WANTS ME TO BUY AN OLDER AND VERY EXPERIENCED DRIVING HORSE TO
LEARN ON . I REALLY AM STARTING TO ___UNDERSTAND NOW ABOUT THE DANGERS OF
A GREEN PERSON ON A GREEN BROKE HORSE. SO
didn't get hurt and the horse didn't get permanently
injured! This driving IS scarey business!
Anyway, on the 4th day we drove him outside , past panicing rearing
horses but big T was calm ,went up the road, across a bridge , up a hill. On
the way back Martha decided to get out to lead him
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think sometimes our placid fjords take a while to react, and you think
they're all done with something and move on and they just aren't ready to
react yet. Then it comes like it would with any other horse, just delayed.
driving horse sounds best to me.
Jean Gayle
Aberdeen, WA
[Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter
Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ]
http://www.techline.com/~jgayle
Barnes Noble Book Stores
This message is from: Robert Merkle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi sheri
The step from ground driving to hitching can seem like one small step
for man but a giant step for horse. Several weeks ago I took that step . I
was working with a trainer,watched a tape by Doris
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi List !
In my experience, driving aprons should be a long enough lengh to reach
well to the wearers ankles.and dark in color. I have seen both light
colored ones, and ones that reached only to the persons calfs, and they didnt
present
This message is from: Jeri L Rieger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I will try to dig a pattern out of an ancient Driving West issue I think I
still have floating around. My mom ia a dandy seamstress and shes made 3
from this pattern.
Anyway, I'll start searching...
Karen
Karen, add me to the list
This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Debby Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Karen, can you please share this information with the rest of us?
Sure, Debby. I am still scrounging, so give me a couple of days...
Karen
__
Get
out of an ancient Driving West issue I think I
still have floating around. My mom ia a dandy seamstress and shes made 3
from this pattern.
For warmth/durability/aesthetics AND tradition, I strongly urge you to use a
wool fabric. The worsted wools pant weight gabardines are really neat.
Take
This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Amy,
I will try to dig a pattern out of an ancient Driving West issue I think I
still have floating around. My mom ia a dandy seamstress and shes made 3
from this pattern.
For warmth/durability/aesthetics AND tradition, I strongly urge
This message is from: linda hickam [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Amy...I was the linda who wasn't chatting...I couldn't figure it
outoh welliy was fun listening'' to everybody...Linda,the computer
neophite
--
From: Evers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Driving Apron
This message is from: Evers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Would anyone have a pattern for a driving apron that I could borrow? Or
perhaps tell me where I might find one. Also, what is the prefered fabric
for aprons?
We had a great crowd in the fjord chat last night!
Amy
This message is from: Walter Monheim [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debby, you mentioned a driving list? could you please give me the e-mail
for that list. Thanks Sherle
Debby Stai wrote:
This message is from: Debby Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'd love to participate in the secret santa, I'm doing
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 11/2/99 11:24:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hubby's saddle was loose so he got off to tighten it - as he
started to get back on the QH started to turn in a circle and hubby got off
balance and fell to the
This message is from: Gail Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We want to buy a couple for next year's Beginner Driving
Vacation. This will allow us to take a husband and wife (for instance) on
the same lesson.
Carol - are you sure this is a good idea? :) Are you sure you aren't
subconsiously trying
to hold the traces on, but not so snug that it is an
effort to attach.
My daughter drove her 11H Welsh pony in a CDE when she was 11 years old.
Maureen van Bon, Bob's daughter rode with her as groom. They were driving a
tiny pipe cart that had been purchased for $50. It had leather pieces
-- teaches one to be aware all
the time when dealing with horses. My husband was riding my QH - I was
driving Sven. Hubby's saddle was loose so he got off to tighten it - as he
started to get back on the QH started to turn in a circle and hubby got off
balance and fell to the ground - QH (in typical
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
last week during my driving lesson with Sven [...] the traces
popped off both sides - and suddenly cart and horse were going every
which way!! My trainer jumped off [...] I unhooked the harness so we
could
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nancy,
Fun to hear your experiences in Brown County, Indiana. I was raised in
northern IN, but went to Indiana University in Bloomington, IN, right next to
that park. Unfortunately, with all the goings on of college, I never got to
enjoy Brown County
ride. Was gorgeous out
and we didn't even get lost.
Brian, thanks for naming us on your list of drivers. Even though trail
riding is my favorite, I can't imagine giving up driving. Was kind of
like a fever - - just wanted to drive a horse in a cart - - then a team
- - then a tandem
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No, no test drive - Ha!!! Just $10 and I am not sure what that is for -
maybe maintance of the trail?? Riders do not have to pay a fee - just
drivers. Both riders and drivers must provide proof of a certificate to
drive or a car sticker to enter the
: Sat, Oct 16, 1999, 4:43 AM
On our side of the Minneapolis metro area there are three County parks that
are groomed for driving. Users have to get a special permit for driving.
The park we were at today was wonderful - mowed grass paths that were nice
and wide that made a big circle around
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Philis - I agree with you about the trust factor. When I first got Sven I
was not sure I trusted him and he very likely felt the same about me. I
spent alot of time on ground-work, grooming, leading, and just plain
hanging-out with him -- by the time
This message is from: Philis Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I enjoyed reading Brian Jenson's post about driving his Fjords. I know I am
not to a high level with my driving skills and knowledge, but I can relate
to everybodys experiences and enthusiasm about this breed. I have s
enjoyed
This message is from: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for that summary of what driving gives you, Brian .. I liked the
image of driving as dancing .. encumbered by shafts, lines and traces I
guess. Where can one get the World driving tapes you mentioned?
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Regarding trainers for driving, Can anyone mention some in the Northwest?
Preferably Washington? Jean
Jean Gayle
Aberdeen, WA
[Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter
Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ]
http://www.techline.com/~jgayle
Barnes Noble
This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I seem to have misplaced the email address for the person who sent me the
excellent photo of the stunning white dun mare driving a pink marathon
vehicle; could you please email me again with your address?
Thanks so much!
Sarah Vogeley
New
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ursula,
Thanks so much for including me in your list. I thought your post was very
informative for those not yet caught up in driving fever. I would like to add
some names of excellent driving trainers and teachers in the USA. Bill Lower
in Virginia
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for the information on driving, Brian. I, too, have to say, if you
think you might like it, try it!!! When I searched for my Fjord I really
wanted one that rode and drove -- not to be -- I bought one that was just a
driving Fjord. Now, looking
This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for the wonderful summary of driving a Fjord. I really enjoyed it!
It is my hope to have a Fjord to drive some day, and I look forward to
having a Fjord to participate with our driving club in Richmond, VA. This
is also an excellent
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This is not a solicitation -- I've never even met Carol Rivoire of Beaver
Damn Farm. I thought her videotape on driving was very helpful in
explaining what and how. It also decided me that I didn't want to, but
that's a decision I made based on having
This message is from: Laurie Pittman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Danny,
I know that there are a number of people here that can answer questions
about driving for you. Another place would be the Carriage Driving List.
Lots of great people there too. Here's the URL, http://www.trot-on.com/cd-l
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Danny and welcome to the list. I am sure someone here who knows driving
will give you some pointers to help you not feel like a beginner. Of
course, I think being a beginner is a good way to start anything. People
who do not ask questions
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello,
Could someone please enlighten me on driving Fjords? A friend has promised me
a ride on her mare - I need to sound educated! I know absolutely nothing
about it. I'd also like to drive my Fjord eventually so I'd really like to
know about
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Very interesting report and especially re the bridge. I still think we do
not know half about these little horses capacities. The unfriendly one
begins to melt a bit when I pay more attention to him but then things happen
and he does not get
and more riding and driving, but for the next few months,
it happens in the rain.
What a wonderful summer it sounds like it was! You have been busy, and it
sounds like you've been using your fjords the way they are meant to be used!
And I liked hearing the bragging, if you could call
to write, I
can be long-winded (and brag too) just
this once, ok guys?
Yes, the Jensen's four were absolutely brilliant at the Victoria Driving
Trials!! The local TV station shows the tapes
from the event at least a dozen times a year, so we are hoping that they got
good footage of them
This message is from: Sarah Vogeley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I heard that there might be a couple Fjords to the driving exhibition at
this weekends Polo match in Oilville, VA. I am curious to know who will be
taking their Fjords? I look forward to seeing you!
Sarah Vogeley
New Forest Farm
This message is from: misha nogha [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks Ursula for sharing that story with us. Well written too. I wish I
had been there watching but just reading it was tying me up in knots for
you guys. Ha. Wow, what a team and what an effort to get there. You guys
are simply amazing! Also
horses who
like to flip over in the traces! Are there any
flippers in our fjord
friends? What causes it and why?
Jean,
Probably most flippers come from breeds of horses that were not
primarily developed to be driving horses. The only ones I've ever seen
that I thought might flip over
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thank you Marsha and what you say makes good sense. My friend has
miniatures and she said her stallion caught a part of his harness on the
shaft? She was not strong enough to slip the harness off but finally did
after a struggle but she had
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was talking to a friend who drives miniature horses about getting
Gunnar going at cart. She scared the beegeebies out of me talking
about horses who like to flip over in the traces! Are there
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was talking to a friend who drives miniature horses about getting Gunnar
going at cart. She scared the beegeebies out of me talking about horses who
like to flip over in the traces! Are there any flippers in our fjord
friends? What
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ursula,
We would pay that amount of money for that type of information.
Brian Jacobsen, DVM
Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch
Salisbury, North Carolina
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 07:16 AM 8/18/1999 -0700, you wrote:
This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ON ANOTHER NOTE:
I am thrilled with the amount of discussion about Evaluation lately
and would join in if there were about 10 more hours in each
. It isn't enough to just
know that a certain mare/stallion has a blue medallian, a red, a
yellow, etc., or that he /she received so many points in the riding or
driving tests. We need to know WHY they received the score they did
if we are ever going to be able to choose wisely when looking for
breeding
This message is from: Teressa Kandianis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't plan on breeding or using evaluations but I would like to have this
book anyhow. Teressa K In Ferndale with 2 fjords
This message is from: Ursula Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
As many of you know we, at Trinity Fjords have been hosting a few
Fjord Folks for driving weekends here in beautiful British Columbia.
This past weekend we finished this summer project with two great
people from Colorado ---Beth Biemer
wonder, however, what would be a good regimen for
getting her in shape, as I gather driving and riding require the use of
different muscles sets --- and whether one has to make allowances because
she is bred? On a hot day, how far can I/we go?
**
OMG Joel, you crack me up
OK, here we go again.My hubby is a REAL MAN. ( I checked )
He is 6 ft. 5, and has Fjord Horses. ( ! )
He both rides and drives our Fjords. ( Looks better driving )
If he harnessed or saddled something ABOVE his head, it would be an elephant
, and had mental checkout everytime Kaiser got
more than 3 ft. away. I was laughing so hard that I almost fell off the
carriage, and was driving her with my pinkeys, but at a over collected, huff
puff IM-GONNA BLOW-UP-STATE.
Geeese ! Back to single work, alone and with friends I dont know how
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linda,
It is Sat. and I haven't turned this thing on in a week I'm just now
getting your messages from 3/9!! AHHH! You can imagine my messages from the
Fjord list! Had a great time in Utah. The day we flew in it was raining in
SLCity and snowing
This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We are going to put up an outdoor arena and I would like it to
accomodate driving as well as riding. If anyone has information /or
experience on this subject (size, width, length, footing, etc
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello Everyone;
We are going to put up an outdoor arena and I would like it to accomodate
dirving as well as riding. If anyone has information /or experience on this
subject (size, width, length, footing, etc.) and would like to share I sure
would
, as it shows all of the steps you should
take before you ever think about hitching. She also emphasizes thinking
about safety, and how dangerous driving is. Driving folks are full of
stories about runaways! This is not meant to be a slam against driving.
It is a blast! But you must take the time
This message is from: Reena Giola [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jean Ernest wrote:
What it consists of is a rope running from a surcingle down to a hobble
around one front foot, back to a ring at the bottom of the surcingle
(bellyband) back to a hobble around the other front foot and back up to a
ring on
in my opinion. Anybody else got some thoughts on this?
(should make for a heated discussion!)
I think one of the best books on training the horse to drive is the one by
Heike Bean and Sarah Blanchard: CARRIAGE DRIVING, A Logical Approach
Through Dressage Training. Mary Twelve ponies also discusses
This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi everybody!
In the latest issue of RIDSPORT, the paper of the Swedish Equestrian
Federation, I found an article about the European Championship in driving
for cold-blooded horses, that has been held in Austria. The winner of the
single
, affordable! ( yea right )
I want to remind everyone to join PAV Aussie and I for Fjord Chat at
PetsandVets Sun. night 9:00 Eastern time, horse room # 1. Our topic this week
is DRIVING, and if you are just thinking of hitching someday, or already drive
around you're own place, or farm or logg
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ernie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11/21/98 07:19 AM
Thanks Vivian for the info on Europe. We will check out the web as you
suggested. And once again congrats on the fine job at Fairhill. We
enjoyed the show and watching you compete. Hope to have our pictures
will. It is unlikely that you'll see a trend especially in Pleasure
Driving towards wearing hard hats as the hat is considered an important part
of the turn-out, especially for women.
This to the fellow who inquired about driving events in Europe. If you go to
the ADS homepage, you can find the link
to do a Quick Hitch with these ever willing Fjords. It
is nothing new, and I also have seen this both while driving around town and
at shows. It seems like we take the ability of our horses to be a willing and
easy animal to train, along with the reputation of calm, docile attitude, and
strech
This message is from: Frederick J. (Fred) Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Martie,
You wrote:
As for a picture, I can send a hard copy. I do not know how to
make/send a copy on my PC. I have a scanner and can make a .BMP file,
but they are so large I don't know if you can mail them successfully.
If
or driver yet to compete in anything, but my instructor
thinks I should consider a couple schooling shows next year in pleasure
driving. I am looking forward to trying it to see if I like it. Many
years ago (more than 25?), I competed in hunter/jumper shows. I had a
couple bad falls, injured my horse
This message is from: john bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Would you be able to send us a photo of Kilar? I'm interested in knowing just
what others are calling drafty, in comparison to our mares. One of ours,
Viola, definately fits the discription of a draft horse temperament.
I would hate to
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Barry,
Please let me know if/what you hear on the Wisconsin Fjord Show!!
Bernadine Karns
thing like a champ. It
definitely helps with problems from the bit.
For the person wanting Driving tapes, I would recommend Holding the
Reins with John Parker and Paul Heiny, an informative and enjoyable
basic tape, and also Lynn Palmer's Pleasure Driving which has
excellent material on training.
I
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I recently purchased a wonderful Fjord gelding. As I learn to drive him I am
wondering if anyone has a recommendation for a good beginning driving tape.
Thanks!!! Linda Lottie - Minnesota
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Marti.. There is no reason you can't do CDE's with your Fjord. My Advanced
pair were quite(still are) drafty. Birte was considered a draft type mare by
the Europeans. When fit she weighed 1250. Stands 14.H and has short stocky
legs. Marnix at 6 years is
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 07 Sep 1998, john bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kilar is a draft horse(pony?) with the excellent disposition and
willingness to do anything without much fuss that should be part of that
type of horse's temperment. He is not large at
This message is from: john bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hear! Hear! Cynthia.
Right now Marnix is my top priority in terms of performance. He is
currently being ridden and driven everyday getting ready for Gladstone
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hear! Hear! Cynthia.
I agree 100%. Especially about performance. I spend countless hours training
all our horses. All above the age of three drive and by four years they are
going down the road and into the woods in company and especially alone.
, but triumphant days at the Carriage Driving Show during
our state fair. Tank and I got a second in pleasure driving ladies and a
fourth in reinsmanship. Steve and Pferd placed first in the fault and
out and second in pleasure driving men's. Steve got fourth and I got
fifth in the scurry (this after he
This message is from: Alison Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED]
john bolinski wrote:
Thought to try to inject a little humor from a few friends who have
helped me put together some of our thoughts on 'driving definitions'.
Remember, we are new drivers, still in training and confused with new
This message is from: john bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thought to try to inject a little humor from a few friends who have
helped me put together some of our thoughts on 'driving definitions'.
Remember, we are new drivers, still in training and confused with new
terminology so decided to put
This message is from: Beck, Sharon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm new to driving, how far should the shafts go, behind the shoulder,
infront of the shoulder
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi all:
Just got back from the Canadian Carriage Driving Classic, where I
groomed for Pat Wolfe. What a show! If you ever get a chance to attend,
I highly recommend it. The grounds are absolutely gorgeous and there are
so many beautiful
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN)
Thanks, Lisa, for your excellent suggestions regarding safety while
driving and some things to check out before purchasing a carriage, etc.
They will be very helpful to me who knows little about driving but is
starting to learn. Thanks
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