Hello Dark
Well I'm down for the kidnaping of Bill Gates. I'll drive. Well just as
soon as they come out with self driving cars l o l jk.
bfn
James
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make
Hi Charles,
Yes there is. The thing to understand about Windows 8 here is
Microsoft is basically combining the desktop and mobile editions of
Windows into a single product. Windows 8 is being deployed on a wide
variety of handheld and touchscreen devices like tablets and smart
phones as well as ne
Hi Dark,
You keep asking about benefits. Does a more secure system that is less likely
to be infiltrated by malware not a benefit to you? *smile*
On an aside on this business of touch screens…
One nice feature of Mac OS X and VoiceOver which you may find interesting, is
that VoiceOver gives yo
sday, April 30, 2013 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark,
Well, all I can say is if you don't like Windows 7, which is closer to
XP than Windows 8, then I doubt you will like Windows 8 any better.
The reason I say that is the user interfac
Hi tom.
touchscreens are the rub however with that one and why I don't want to
completely dismiss windows eight, since I do indeed like the touchscreen
interface on ios which has an icon setup much as you describe windows 8
having, which would I agree be a nightmare with arrows but is great wi
Hi Charles,
Of course. In Windows 7 when you type a search into the Start Menu a
little list box comes up with a list of matches found.
For example, if you type Word into the Start Screen you will get a
list of icons like Microsoft Word 2010, Wordpad, and if you have any
other icons with those le
Hi Dark,
Well, all I can say is if you don't like Windows 7, which is closer to
XP than Windows 8, then I doubt you will like Windows 8 any better.
The reason I say that is the user interface in Windows 8 is totally
different from XP.
First, you have the new ribbons. Every application such as Fi
Hi Josh.
On the brouser point, you should also know that ie8 is! the latest version
of ie that will work with windows xp, and it's not possible to upgrade
without upgrading windows.
I have also tried the latest version of firefox, but for some reason I've
not been able to determine, it const
Hi Charles,
As I said before the ribbons are fully accessible once you learn how
to use them. For example, if you press the alt key screen readers
should bring you to the home tab on the ribbon and using left and
right arrow keys will move you left and right along it and pressing
enter will select
2013 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Tom and all,
Just adding to what Tom is saying here. This is a little long, so I hope
you will all stick with me.
This is also why I am a proponent of Apple's model. Apple iterates
existing products along a
Hi all,
One other point to be addressed here, too…
This scenario is not just about the cost of upgrading, or the backwards
compatibility. Even when these issues are not factors, for whatever reason,
visually impaired users often do not upgrade.
For example, where regards browsers, I can see in
Ward"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Charles,
that's close enough. However, I don't believe anyone said it was right
or particularly. fair. That's just the way busi
"Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark,
it sounds as if you are in essence holding developers in this community
somehow responsible for what is essentially the computing world in general,
Hi Charles,
Well, to begin with Windows Live Mail and Microsoft Office 2010 are
still quite accessible. Yes, the user interface is quite a bit
different on Windows 7, but different does not mean inaccessible. Once
you learn how to use the ribbons they are just accessible as the pull
down menus.
A
ate for another time).
Beware the grue!
Dark.
- Original Message -
From: "Draconis"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Tom and all,
Just adding to what Tom is
Hi Kara.
that does make sense as regards devs being customers, but in that case
perhaps as I said that is why this sort of dialogue helps, since developers
have different reasons for prefering newer os and some players different
reasons for preffering older, and short of kidnapping bill gates
Hi Tom.
Given game availability, I'd be willing to pay a good 30 usd for a dosbox
emulator, heck, I'd pay that just for eamon deluxe, though I agree with the
rest of your projects it wouldn't be such a good thing.
The reason I say windows 7 accessibility is worse is due to the several
hours
Hi Tom and all,
Just adding to what Tom is saying here. This is a little long, so I hope you
will all stick with me.
This is also why I am a proponent of Apple's model. Apple iterates existing
products along a trajectory that eliminates the perceived obsolescence
technique. They only update th
Hi Dark,
Developers aren't saying woohoo, let's force everyone to upgrade because the
new stuff is just sooo much cooler. :)
We spend a fair bit of time trying to figure out ways to make as many customers
happy as possible, while ourselves, working in a changing environment. I think
here, is w
ion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark,
I asked this before and I'll ask it again. How much are you willing to
spend on Dosbox emulation?
The thing is while I am sure there are a few developers like myse
Hi Dark,
I asked this before and I'll ask it again. How much are you willing to
spend on Dosbox emulation?
The thing is while I am sure there are a few developers like myself
who have the technical skills to rewrite Dosbox from scratch in order
to make it accessible it would take considerable tim
ffer what the end user can use.
--
If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors!
- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers,
For the record I'd like to try Windows 8. I just can't afford to at the
moment, which is why I fervently hope my three-year-old Toshiba laptop
doesn't decide to die on me anytime soon. There have been no indications
that it will but I've observed that you never can tell with computers. LOL
But
Hi Charles,
*snip*
> Response: This does make sense if or when the money can be found. A Mac
> costs more, but the costs associated with Freedom Scientific's SMA are
> eliminated.
> *snip*
That, but the idea that Macs cost more is not true. If you get a PC with the
same specs and quality of
hi,
you forgot about the ability of windows 8 to perform all maintenence
tasks together directed by one process
so unlike win7 windows 8 will download and install updates, clean log
files, defrag the hdd etconly when your pc is idle
also the refresh and reset feature is another reason to upgrad
2013 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Charles,
that's close enough. However, I don't believe anyone said it was right
or particularly. fair. That's just the way business generally works.
For example, when I took a marketing class in college
Hi Charles,
that's close enough. However, I don't believe anyone said it was right
or particularly. fair. That's just the way business generally works.
For example, when I took a marketing class in college we studied a
marketing technique called perceived obsolescence. The way it works is
you tak
Hi Kara.
I do not blaime developers for the computing situation, (that is clearly
microsoft's fault), but at the same time there is honestly some tention
hear, and I've detected it from comments from Tom and Josh precisely about!
supporting older systems and about people still using "out of da
Hi Charlse.
Unfortunately from the perspective of microsoft it is about what sells, and
if you can wrap something up in a shiny box and tell people it is new and
better you can sell more of it, irrispective of whether it actually is or
not, and equally irrispective of whether your poor blind c
Hi Dark,
it sounds as if you are in essence holding developers in this community somehow
responsible for what is essentially the computing world in general, moving
forward as it normally does.
By saying that audio game developers are saying to the community, 'tough luck'
is maybe not the most
;
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Is this how it works?
Microsoft sells the new OS. That OS doesn't support older hardware and
software, so hardware and software developers make n
implements cause grammatical and spelling
errors!
- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Ward"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark,
Upon reading this and other message
Hi Tom.
One question. If this is the case, how come on my windows xp machine, bought
in 2008, I can run somftware written for dos in 1979? I'm afraid your
arguement that "all systems do this" just doesn't make that sort of sense.
Equally, if it is a case of simply keeping these old dependencie
Hi Charles,
That's true. One that I will strongly consider as a software
developer. However, as I also pointed out there may come a day where
it is no longer possible to support XP and Windows 8 at the same time
without developing and maintaining multiple versions of the same game.
That takes extr
The search box is really intuitive; but if it doesn't find what
you want you can always just use the menu system.
- Original Message -
From: "Charles Rivard" What if you're not sure of the name of what you're looking for?
Is there a
way to hunt for something you would recognize when y
mer's side of things?
--
If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling
errors!
- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Ward"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers,
Hi Dark,
Upon reading this and other messages you have written I think the
fundimental problem is that you have no experience developing
software, or working for a company where you have to develop,
maintain, and support software for a long period of time so your
comments completely overlook techn
Hi charlse.
I agree regarding classic shell, plus classic shell does not solve the other
issues with newer windows components such as control panel, e-mail etc, this
is why if I am forced to upgrade I'd considder the mac with virtual xp over
windows 7. Whether this is true of 8 I don't know, I
hange made to begin with?
--
If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling
errors!
- Original Message -
From: "Draconis"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers,
l Message - From: "Dallas O'Brien"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi, on top of all this, there is one simple thing to look at. Look at
the main gaming industr
eople, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling
errors!
- Original Message -
From: "dark"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi charlse.
i do agree, partic
2013 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Well, as Tom said, and I eluded to, there isn't really much to add. The
process for installing a VM, at least on Mac, is extremely simple for
anyone. It literally consists of these steps:
1. Install the VMWare Fusion ap
atical and spelling
errors!
- Original Message -
From: "Thomas Ward"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Josh and all,
Snip
The vast, vast, vast majority of Win
Well, as Tom said, and I eluded to, there isn't really much to add. The process
for installing a VM, at least on Mac, is extremely simple for anyone. It
literally consists of these steps:
1. Install the VMWare Fusion app, which is 100% accessible.
2. Insert a Windows XP install disc and click to
Which is also why there needs to be better reasons to stop using xp than
currently, aprticularly given the buggered interface and lack of
customization. Frankly microsoft need shooting over that one saying "well
you get what we give and like it" rather than giving people choices about
what they
- From: "Dallas O'Brien"
>
> To: "Gamers Discussion list"
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
>
>
>> Hi, on top of all this, there is one simple thing to look at. Loo
Hi josh.
I never said I would not! upgrade, only that I had looked at the pros and
cons and decided against it. Remember, my comments about the interface in
windows 7 do not just reflect the main start menue and windows explorer, but
also programs like outlook express, microsoft office etc, si
Hi Charles,
When it comes to hardware manufacturers they are looking at it from
the perspective of PC builders and manufacturers like Del, HP,
Gateway, etc. Those companies are building new PCs with Windows 7 and
Windows 8 on them so that is where the market is for hardware
manufacturers. Trying t
Hi Tom.
I completely agree that in 10, 20 years down the line etc things will
change, however that is not the current decision. When I considder do I
change from xp to a newer os, I way up the costs and bennifits. It is
entirely possible that windows 8 (with a touch screen), windows 9, mac os
Hi Dark,
Responses throughout again.
*snip*
> one of my intrinsic problems with this upgrade business is to do with
> practical good and also practicality of how many computers one can actually
> own.
>
> i do not actually have the space for more than one desktop, plus laptops have
> a shorte
s O'Brien"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi, on top of all this, there is one simple thing to look at. Look at the
main gaming industry. There are a lot of games out there
Hi Dark,
Snip
Virtual XP is always a solution next to a main os, but how well that
runs I'm not sure over all.
End Snip
Well, unfortunately that all depends on how much CPU power and memory
you have to spare for a secondary OS. Generally running XP in a
virtual machine will runn a bit slower than
Hi charlse.
i do agree, particularly since a lot of the changes in windows 7 are
cosmetic at best (heck, nobody blind or sighted likes the ui either but
microsoft are forcing people to use it since you can't buy a new computer
without).
The same goes for other programs and products too, for
sday, April 30, 2013 8:24 AM
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Well were you live you might be able to get another xp box, but here in
the states those are memories. The shops and stores sense win7 came out
now support that op
Hi Charles.e
i wouldnt' go that far, I do think it's a two sided problem ccombined with
lack of support for older systems and microsoft's bad approach to ui's in
post xp windows (or at least in 7), however I do get a little tired of
developers constantly saying "well microsoft is doing this th
Hi Tom.
My statement was primarily regarding windows 7. I've had no experiences with
8 so haven't drawn a judgement, indeed I was tempted to skip windows 7
entirely since what I've tried of the os I completely disliked. however, it
is the layout and lack of abilities to customize that irritate
homas Ward"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi,
Not only that, but the problem for people wanting to maintain XP after
2014 is hardware support. After next year most hardware man
ot;Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark,
After reading your message, I'd like to know how much actual experience
you have with windows seven. The only part of your message I can't
m: "Thomas Ward"
To: "Gamers Discussion list"
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Hi Dark,
Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and
I certainly can't dispute that the issues
Hi Tom and all,
I agree entirely, which is why, in my previous note, I specified that the mess
isn't just for screen reader users. Windows 8 is widely getting slammed by
users because it is a mess, but that has nothing to do with the accessibility.
Microsoft is improving with access, even if it
Hi Dallas,
Correct. One of the things Windows 8 brings to the table regarding
accessibility is Microsoft Narrator is vastly improved over prior
versions.Wile I wouldn't take it over something like NVDA it is far
better than anything else Microsoft has provided before. Better screen
review commands
Hi.
one of my intrinsic problems with this upgrade business is to do with
practical good and also practicality of how many computers one can actually
own.
i do not actually have the space for more than one desktop, plus laptops
have a shorter life generally. Virtual xp is always a solution n
Hi Josh and all,
Snip
The vast, vast, vast majority of Windows users never upgrade their
existing machine. They go buy a cheap new computer which happens to
have the latest OS on it. When this occurs, rather than going through
channels to keep using obsolete software, hang on to the old machine
to
Hi, on top of all this, there is one simple thing to look at. Look at the main
gaming industry. There are a lot of games out there that do not support
anything less than Windows 7. So we aren't the first to see this happen. In
fact, the audio games industry is being held back by the fact that we
n list"
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
Well were you live you might be able to get another xp box, but here in
the states those are memories. The shops and stores sense win7 came out
now support that op and won't even think of selling xp. Its just
Hi, also, I'm not too sure where the idea that Microsoft has not been helping
accessibility in more modern versions of windows.
In fact, Windows 7, and more especially windows 8, are far more accessible than
XP ever was. And their knew protocols, and APIs, that provide better
accessibility now,
Hi Tom and Trouble,
All the more reason to have a dedicated, essentially frozen, machine for
playing old games, etc. The less wear-and-tear you can put on it, using it just
for the specific tasks it needs to be, the longer it is likely to last. Keeping
it off the Internet most of the time would
Hi,
Not only that, but the problem for people wanting to maintain XP after
2014 is hardware support. After next year most hardware manufacturers
will no longer be providing drivers for sound cards, video cards,
network cards, etc for XP. So if someone needs to replace a hardware
component for any
Hi Dark,
After reading your message, I'd like to know how much actual
experience you have with windows seven. The only part of your
message I can't completely contradict is the part about dos
applications, and even those should run under a 32-bit version of
the OS, if you really want them to.
Hi Dark,
Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and
I certainly can't dispute that the issues you raised are valid, but
there is another side to the debate as well.
It is true that on 64-bit versions of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8
it is not possible to play older 1
Hi trouble.
As I said, I am not aversed to upgrading when it is of bennifit to me, and
indeed this is I think the reason most people do not do so. If something
ain't broke, why fix it.
i also question your "progress forward" analogy for this reason, since
something with a less friendly inter
Hi Dark and all. on the topic of upgrading to windows 7 from xp I agree with
you in all that you have said hear. I use xp for my maine pc use and have a
laptop running windows 7 for a backup but I hardley ever use that unless say
I am traviling. I agree with all your points that xp is mutch simp
Hi Dark,
My responses are throughout.
*snip*
> 1: compatibility with dos applications.
>
> As a huge fan of text rpgs, I play not a few games with dos such as fallthru,
> and age of legends, yet thanks to microsoft that would not be possible on a
> 64 bit machine. For sighted users this isn't
Well were you live you might be able to get another xp box, but here
in the states those are memories. The shops and stores sense win7
came out now support that op and won't even think of selling xp. Its
just like computers you may have a good running box. However,
progress makes that box out d
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