I am getting the same results on my hl2dm servers. I'm crossposting
this to the hlds_linux list. Can someone there confirm that the Linux
dedicated server has this problem as well?
Kevin Ottalini wrote:
I just confirmed this, it appears that vehicles like the airboat work
fine
in HL2DM if
I have a very large number of servers which to pull stats from.
Excluding for add-on problems, we have 22minutes of avg downtime per
30days. (This includes the scheduled reboots and any updates) I
compiled this composite using data from the last 360 days. Our servers
are all dual Opteron
;)
And another question to everybody - does anyone has an experience with
new Conroe-family Xeons?
Thanks.
On 18/09/06, Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a very large number of servers which to pull stats from.
Excluding for add-on problems, we have 22minutes of avg downtime per
30days
Through 3rd party hardware, yes (OK You can connect them but they don't
work through the XBoxInput API ... a similar situation exists on the
Xbox360 ... though on the 360 it IS possible to add the support through
the new Input API.) In reality it's not nearly the difference you think
it is. I
Robert Wade wrote:
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 11:11:26 -0700
From: Roman Hatsiev [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] Re: hlds digest, Vol 1 #4721 - 7 msgs
Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Dear Robert,
Your messages are useless, please stop spamming the list.
Try running one server at 66 tickrate and see if this problem still
occurs. This seems to eliminate a large number of problems. (they
aren't just limited to doors you know)
Also this fps booster utility ... I assume its a program to adjust the
windows timer resolution, and not one of those
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System is the nt kernel + kernel mode drivers (ie most hardware drivers
that operate in ring 0 - graphics and some sound cards mostly)
Ntkrnlpa.exe is the uniprocessor ia32 PAE kernel. It should be
I've got about 130 counts of this in ALL my log files for more servers
than sin ;)
However like 110 of them are HLDM and HL2DM, so I might believe it was
something weird to allow people to play single player w/o buying the game.
Maybe Alfred can clarify for us when and where this message comes
It is listen server only. The dedicated server exists, but is not in
hldsupdatetool yet per Alfred. (I dunno about the steam source
dedicated server supporting it as it requires just as much effort as the
-listen server.)
Ook wrote:
I want a HLDM1:S dedicated server, not an HL2 server.
While HL1 and Source games do do networking differently, and at one time
HL1 did suffer from this problem (and assuming you are not running a pre
Steam version of HL1 engine), this problem has been solved for a very
long time on HL1 and did not exist in Source ever. Now it is also true
that each
The server does not wait. This is why higher lag players being to jump
around. There's a lag compensation part to it that attempts to smooth
out movement and shots, but eventually it begins to not work due to
insufficient information from the client with high ping. Do you
honestly beieve the
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GamePanel became The Gamehosting Control Panel, ie TCA.
http://www.tcadmin.com/
It's a commercial product. Basically they are trying to sell it to GSPs
who for the most part develop their own. To be
I dunno. Personally I don't even think we should have a windows and a
linux list. Should just have one list. And the hlds/srcds issues is
very rare. Most of the issues are common to all 4 situations.
Nashalife | Newbie wrote:
Then it should probably be [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newbie
-
This is the only time I have ever had that particular problem. If the
round changes are not sync'd then it's not a problem.
Nashalife | Newbie wrote:
It does... Fresh copy, no mani, no bots, etc... But still, when
running 3-4
busy servers on single Windows box, one of them will eventually
Going into even just how we believe lag compensation to work (and it
might not be that complex or that simple because we don't know) will
take about 15 pages of text. So you'll have to forgive me to not go
into it. Check out the steamforums and the CS forums both have some
people's surmations
Eventually they will play hl2dm.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I played a bit last night. I found the client to be fast, smooth, and
stable. Very very nice looking, Crossfire was awesome! OMG, even the
windows
had broken glass shards sticking out of the frame. But the server kept
crashing. I'll try
loading and what not.)
Chris Bass wrote:
gamepanel is still available.
TCadmin is doing quite well at least last time I talked one of the guys
who owns it. It's better then 99.9% of GSPs have time or manpower to
develop.
Stuart Stegall wrote:
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Along with EP1 is supposed to be a whole new SourceTV system. (let's not
talk about anything until then, because it's just b0rked)
Roman Hatsiev wrote:
This post is mostly addressed to Valve gurus :)
Here is minor issue with tv_record which bothers me a lot - it does
not add date-time-map info
I've had problems where if more than 2-3 servers round change at the
same time, one of them would hang. And oddly on my system it is NOT
related to disc throughput as I have a fully FC2Gbps channel going to
each server from the SAN.
Roman Hatsiev wrote:
Here is the problem which is haunting me
Nothing is shared. I've seen too many problems with sharing any of the
files. The customers always end up doing weird stuff.
Roman Hatsiev wrote:
I'm curious whether your servers have shared directories - maps,
configs, etc?
On 03/05/06, Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've had
This is the Multiplay Deathmatch version of Half-Life:Source not the
Half-Life 2: DeathMatch
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Am I missing something? Is Are we talking about HL2 DM, or is this
actually
Half-Life (Not HL2) death match - source, instead of the old non-source
Half-Life multiplayer?
And
I have ... If I start 3-4 servers on the same server with same settings,
one will hang or something like that.
Roman Hatsiev wrote:
No clue here.. Have you ever tried to reproduce this problem?
On 04/05/06, Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nothing is shared. I've seen too many problems
At one point in time they would cause the whole server to lag, but this
has been fixed (I'm not sure what version fixed it.) Quake1 still
suffers from it, but Quake2 did not. So I am not sure how HL got the
bug in the first place.
L.o.D. wrote:
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I was wondering the same thing myself. Please don't alter DoD:S and
HL2DM tickrates below 66. This causes weird problems in both games and
is not necessary. (Reminds me of the person who runs that 64ppl 10tick
CS:S server.)
Hell Phoenix wrote:
Just out of curiosity...why are you lowering the
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The hackers do this by testing their hacks on your rolled-back server.
Steve Dawson wrote:
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*When rolling back to these binaries, does it change
The bug is that the server acts like a single processor server instead
of a dual processor server. Basically all the hlds processor start and
stay on cpu0. So if you are running more processes than can be
supported by the single processor, you begin to have problems.
Derek Hyde wrote:
Should
Also do you log cpu, net, and disk activity during these lag spikes
Graham wrote:
How many players are you trying to run from that?
Graham
- Original Message -
From: Derek Hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds]
on FPS to single digits for about 2 seconds,
went back up to 70fps then bottomed again and repeated about 5 times then
was fineaside from that one jagged spike everything was above 40fps
From: Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18
I'm in it instead
of when I'm not)
From: Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:33:33 -0500
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] Mystery Lag at 75% CPU (Dual CPU) usage.
Are you changing the windows resolution timer? (like
to the best of my knowledge,
The
Specialists won't run via HL:SRC
Anywayso I just want to have the windows media player open? I
lost FPS
when I did that
From: Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:34:42 -0500
To: hlds
of my knowledge, The
Specialists won't run via HL:SRC
Anywayso I just want to have the windows media player open? I lost FPS
when I did that
From: Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:34:42 -0500
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
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Those are our recommendations for competition servers, but we wish the
leagues would allow other cl_interp #s, but it's not up to us.
For public servers, we just cannot recommend 100 tickrate. We
tool can use normal server data verification routines. Most of the
proprietary methods of doing this have proven quite fiddly nasty
little scripts that could do with a proper replacement. This would
however require some kind of extra authentication layer.
On 26/04/06, Stuart Stegall [EMAIL
really, we just go for 66tick, have tried 33
100, and 66 seems to be the sweet spot for least amount of problems
(100tick
maybe more client issues as well though I often suspect).
On 4/27/06, Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
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So not up to date that it simply isn't there. :)
Wim Barelds wrote:
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Or es_rates, the one I have posted there isn't really up to date, I should
unless you have source code and debugging symbols which
may give you a clue where it crashed. Even those won't help you much
if you are ot familiar with software internals
On 26/04/06, Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For the most part debuggers don't really provide anything helpful
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You could (as in YMMV) try it both with and w/o HT enabled. (I believe
the SRCDS/HLDS issues with HT enabled are fixed, but that didn't stop me
from returning over a million in hardware to Dell over
/alternative ]
Well it was a good excuse when you found out Dual Core Opetrons would do
twice the job for half the price :p
On 4/26/06, Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
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You could (as in YMMV
For the most part debuggers don't really provide anything helpful and
are generally a crutch. If you have a problematic server 90% of the
time the problem is hardware/OS related although some of the HLDS
plugins do do weird things for no apparent reason and some combination
of settings for Mani
I am trying to come up with some error message statistics and I
discovered that since this update the number of Connection timed out
errors has increased like 100x over. (this is the player reason error
not the VAC error)
Is anyone else getting an increase? (this is in all the major US peering
I think the map.txt files only get updated when there's a new map.
Chris | FatPipeServer.com wrote:
Hello,
I'm not sure if this has been touched on or not in the past... But if so,
maybe someone could point me in the right direction.
I am wondering if there's any way to stop the Steam Updates
This would have to be a Source Engine update and not a Counter-Strike
Source update. So likely no sourcetv.
Dave Williams wrote:
Drew Hostetler wrote:
I'd wet myself if it was the rumored sourceTV fix/upgrade.
On 4/19/06, sprout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
any idea on whats being fixed in
That's what i was saying .. but convoluted.
Dave Williams wrote:
Stuart Stegall wrote:
This would have to be a Source Engine update and not a Counter-Strike
Source update. So likely no sourcetv.
Dave Williams wrote:
Drew Hostetler wrote:
I'd wet myself if it was the rumored sourceTV fix
Don't Post when you have a 102F fever. This update is obviously CS:S
related. If this was the possibly pending SourceTV update it would say
Source Engine Update pending and not CS:S.
Stuart Stegall wrote:
That's what i was saying .. but convoluted.
Dave Williams wrote:
Stuart Stegall wrote
There used to be special steam server logins (they were free just to use
server) but they don't exist anymore. Don't use the username/password.
Travis Mitchell wrote:
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I want to run a dedicated server from another computer, yet I can't
use the
same steam
actually you don't even need that ... because you don't need to login
anymore.
Wolvie wrote:
Create a new account via the hldsupdatetool.exe then dl the cs files. You
don't need to own any games to get the ded server files
-Original Message-
From: Travis Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL
you need to select the correct game
Travis Mitchell wrote:
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I have the ded server files. But I need CS to be able to run UWC3.
I've tried
it without by just copying the files to Steam on this comp. Doesn't work.
(image)-=TraV=-(image)
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It is fun sometimes to avoid the question and just pick the part YOU
want to answer.
Whisper wrote:
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4 Replies and not a single really useful
All terrorists appear as Guerrilla and all counter-terrorists appear as
GIGN no matter what is selected.
Alfred Reynolds wrote:
An update to Counter-Strike: Source has been released. To get the update
run the hldsupdatetool.
This update brings HDR to de_dust and adds two new player models, the
)
Alfred Reynolds wrote:
I don't see that on the handful of servers I sampled. Make sure you are
joining an updated server.
- Alfred
Stuart Stegall wrote:
All terrorists appear as Guerrilla and all counter-terrorists appear
as
GIGN no matter what is selected.
Alfred Reynolds wrote
@list.valvesoftware.com
Betreff: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released
I don't see that on the handful of servers I sampled. Make sure you
are
joining an updated server.
- Alfred
Stuart Stegall wrote:
All terrorists appear as Guerrilla and all counter-terrorists appear
as GIGN
It seems as though cl_minmodels 1 is default or it related to something
else. I delete my settings and still a named I used from cs1.6 2 years
ago still comes up as my name.
Alfred Reynolds wrote:
So it looks like some servers are forcing cl_minmodels to one, and when you
join servers after
I do this already in my management system. I used to use XCPU.exe, but
about a year ago I switched to using my own code (which also integrates
a sandbox ... to eliminate those plugin problems that people were
complaining about -- on hlds_linux i think)
Steven Hartland wrote:
Fact is if you can
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Try writing your own directx hooks and then see how long before you get
hacked. Of course publically available hacks are quickly detected.
kyle wrote:
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I don't think you guys have ever hosted large file transfer sites. You
might go and read about the architecture of large data transfer networks.
Whisper wrote:
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use for their
existing content servers.
Other than fat pipes and enough IO to handle the volume of data being
sent, what else is there to consider?
Regards,
Adam
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Stegall
Sent: Monday, 10 April
You realize they WROTE the game right?
Ryan Wilson wrote:
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Has anyone else seen the status report?
http://dayofdefeat.com/stats/weapons.html
I'm surprised about all the information they collect...about weapon accuracy
and even accuracy at
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BindCPU works quite well.
http://www.softtreetech.com/24x7/extras/BindCPU.exe
All you do is start it like this bindcpu.exe 2 cod2.exe blahb
lahbkdkdfjdjk more command gobble dee gook.
For MOST
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You shouldn't need the . I have tried it with .bat and .cmd files on
WinXP/Win2kServer/Win2k3Server/Win2k3R2Server.
How odd huh? As far as I know you'd only need the to run it from the
Start-Run
HT doesn't have a good track record with HLDS, SRCDS, or Windows. I
would highly suggest disabling HT and treating your machine as a 2
processor machine. (however YMMV)
Ilya Oboznyy wrote:
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My cfg
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Other than SteamBans, I'm not really aware of any other groups setting
up ban lists (other than lists of VAC banned users) A few GSPs include
a list of banned ids in their default installs and
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Did you ever set the region to something other than 255? (We've found
lots of problems with servers set to this showing up.)
Robert Dodd wrote:
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I am going to still suggest that Ook should just return the WG and use
his Linksys. There's just no need.
Edward Luna wrote:
There is no reason that you can't run behind a WG firewall. I have two
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Where on earth did that come from? Stop posting and smoking crack, please.
Also, your last line could really really get you into serious trouble.
Try to think before you send.
Blizzard wrote a nice
There's actually a possibility of several things here. One is that a
port is blocked upstream of your router. Second is that your ip is
blocked by Valve.
Sometimes upstream prodivers block ports who knows what reason, though
generally it's because they are either being DoS'd or there's an
-
From: Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, March 27, 2006 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [hlds] HL2DM Server now behind WG Firebox 700 was playable but
not listed by STEAM
There's actually a possibility of several things here. One is
that a
port is blocked upstream of your router
: SteamGameServers (if firewall allows for names)
Protocols:
- UTP : 27010-27020 (note, other PC games may use additional ports, if so
just simply add them to this list)
Outgoing Filter: Allow
From: Any
To: Any
CYKO
- Original Message -
From: Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday
Did you miss the part about: You should always update. Update twice a
day once in the morning and one in the evening.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Alfred, when you do this (which is a great idea, BTW) will the server
give a
message about being out dated? I once spent hours and hours trying to
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As typical, he completely ignored the SRCDS request and instead
concentrated on his own limited HLDS experience. Please don't ASSUME. :)
Whisper wrote:
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Oh you are talking about the FTUSA - Future Territories of the USA.
Whisper wrote:
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All I know is, Australia is in a lot of trouble.
Sorry I meant France
Or was it Iran
Or even North Korea
:D
On 3/21/06, Chorizo Omelet [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have found when helping others that the SteamPowered.com support
website sometimes does not put the Ask a Question tab. (Not sure why,
but it does.)
Thanks,
S
Joshua Handelsman-Woolf (DogGunn) wrote:
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You need to be looking at a answer
Instead of wasting time with extra memory from IE and Flash, try finding
that srcdsfpsboost.zip file. It is a program that only calls the
appropriate Win32 timer functions to set the time resolution. (ie the
same thing WMP and Flash do)
David Williams wrote:
cool can you send the flash anim
hlstatsx would have to issue the ban through rcon as that is it's only
access to the running game. hlstatsx doesn't use a plugin (though it
can work with Beetles, Mani, and the small statsme plugin)
Now I believe you can use GlobalBanning 1 to enforce global bans on your
server, but it's just a
From just a straight performance comparison (not from a
breakage/support standpoint), then for the hlds games, there is
basically no difference between the two platforms (technically I've
found that disk operations happen faster on the linux hlds, but really
it makes no difference except like 1
It's probably some bug in Metamod as people were experiencing this with
more than just Amx and same problem on both platforms (linux and windows).
Ali Uzair Malik wrote:
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Hi,
I have just recently started having this problem. I run a typical
I have always preferred adminmod and just never thought amx really
brought much to the table. Now mani does have some interesting stuff,
but it's got some mega problems related to resource usage. (though it's
very nice for admining while playing)
Rick Payton wrote:
Alfred Reynolds wrote:
Unfortunately, my suggestion would be uh GoDaddy cause of price.
Everything else is sorta pointless as it's only a price issue.
Register.com and Network Solutions have the cleanest interfaces IMHO.
Ook wrote:
My domains are .com, .us, and I think I have a .info that is just parked.
I'm in the
Actually since internally the number is larger, I'd just think this
would be modifying a small client side item (though maybe it wouldn't be
to fit 4 digits or 5 digits in there ...)
Munra -hlds wrote:
I think that would be more then a minor update. I am not a coder but it
would seem that hl1
Since this update, i've had stat. speaking, 1:285 crash rate. All of
them were in Mani Mod servers, and of those 1/2 were crashes due to the
servers using more than their share of resources, leading to them being
killed by my magical process killer. Unfortunately my magical process
killer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Morten Trydal wrote:
Interesting, because we run SrcTV on our server, which is a match server.
I'll try disabling srctv later and see what happens.
btw, what's the address for the linux list?
- Original Message -
From: Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: hlds
From home, with my rinky-dink 3Mbps/512Kbps DSL link, I haven't seen my
choke hit 10 (and even then on most servers located here in Dallas I
rarely top 2 Choke)
Now, If I play on servers on one of the coasts of USA then I will
sometimes see choke as high as 20.
Also note, your 30Mbps connection
err that's - is really a _
Stuart Stegall wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Morten Trydal wrote:
Interesting, because we run SrcTV on our server, which is a match
server.
I'll try disabling srctv later and see what happens.
btw, what's the address for the linux list?
- Original Message -
From
What plugins are you using? I have untold numbers of servers and they
seem to be doing just fine %Usage-wise.
Morten Trydal wrote:
I forgot to mention, this is a Counter-Strike: Source server.
- Original Message -
From: Robert Whelan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=threadid=412194
- Original Message -
From: Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 1:13 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Cpu use bug in the update?
What plugins are you using? I have untold numbers
66tick.)
Morten Trydal wrote:
Just Mani and Zblock max, like before the update.
I noticed others are mentioning higher cpu usage on the steam forums as
well, in linux section:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=threadid=412194
- Original Message -
From: Stuart Stegall
HostMonitor is nice enough. We never really found it to be 100% effective
as sometimes it was give an alert on a server that wasn't down. Eventually
I came across Netsaint and then Nagios(what netsaint became) ... Nagios is
pretty much perfect. And it's free to boot. Try www.nagios.org.
This is 100% true (I mean some weirdness in your connection could take CPU
away from the game like playing OVER a VPN tunnel)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Stevens (IAmAI)
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:32 AM
To:
Actually the Linux software is mostly for scanning shares. File/print
sharing is probably the #1 usage of Linux in business.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tyler Cook
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:22 PM
To:
I do have more leaks with Mani Admin Mod than without it, but I don't think
it's actually Mani's problem, but someone changed a function (probably moved
a free from one function to another function that calls that function, not
realizing that someone else was using that function.
-Original
@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] Whining or true?
...like playing OVER a VPN tunnel
Well, that's like a seriously bad idea in the first place anyway :P
On 20/02/06, Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is 100% true (I mean some weirdness in your connection could take
CPU away
person irv carlson has 3 posts back to back to back about
the
same topic. So if you arn't from valve then go flame someone else u
worthless pieces of shit, and stop flooding my mailbox
- Original Message -
From: Stuart Stegall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Sunday
Actually having seen some source source (I know, I know) code, I believe the
way their tree is It's really not a big deal having linux+win32 support. I
believe it's probably a stupid little thing that makes the in game
performance. Obviously the memory usage is a leak in the Linux specific
code.
No offense, but you either are not the admin rebooting the machines, have a
script that doesn't log crashes but does autorestart, or you are using some
remote tool that automagically reboots them at like 5am. I've been testing
something with the HDR maps and had 16bots running on a plain CSS
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Stegall
Sent: Tuesday, 21 February 2006 6:19 PM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: RE: [hlds] New bug/hack
Actually having seen some source source (I know, I know) code, I believe the
way their tree
If nothing else is changing on the box, then it is a virus or something of
that nature. Just as an off chance ... Are you running any mods?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 2:07 AM
To:
You could attempt to write a DirectX overlay, but it would probably require
some serious programming. Basically you'd need to detect sounds and make a
visual overlay to display these visual clues. To avoid getting busted by
VAC, you'd probably need to loop the audio output back into the audio
Even better. I have the solution to all your problems.
http://www.portforward.com/default.htm Read, learn, and lose the n00b
clothes.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 1:42 PM
To:
AVP crashes anymore? HOW? Can you email me off-list?
Sorry in advance to all of the list purist.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Stegall
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:22 AM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: RE: [hlds
My only guess after everything I have to believe ... Either you are getting
some type of security problem (and if you get infected before your AV gets
installed or the security exploit hits before you update. Or the other
option is that you have a very very strange bug.
My guess is you are
Counter-Strike installs. Seems to me that it's probably
a hardware problem. What happens if you chkdsk /F the drive?
--DH
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Stegall
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:20 PM
To: hlds
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