Re: [IceHorses] Playing with Snorri

2008-07-08 Thread Karen Thomas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP3ptVf59Fg He's looking good, Kim! What are those streamers made of?It looks like the yellow caution tape you see around industrial construction sites. That's a good idea - it's reasonably priced at Lowe's or Home Depot. Karen Thomas, NC

[IceHorses] Boots for riding Prinsessa

2008-07-08 Thread Karen Thomas
or http://tinyurl.com/5vd2gv Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Playing with Snorri

2008-07-08 Thread Karen Thomas
I want some! for my office and guest bathroom at home. that would be so awesome kim janice ebay! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Playing with Snorri

2008-07-08 Thread Karen Thomas
(This isn't a joke. Janice really has a t-shirt like that! I have a picture if you don't believe me...) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Re: interesting device

2008-07-07 Thread Karen Thomas
with the mary wanless riders belt. It looks like a goofy shortcut device to me and I won't be rushing out to buy one. Did you see the price? $179 - ouch. If anyone is interested though, here's a review: http://www.unisitinc.com/portals/9/unisitarticleHJ.pdf Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] neckset

2008-07-06 Thread Karen Thomas
, while Melnir's is at the other. (Again, one not really better than the other, just different...) Of course, I knew that before we marked them up - Melnir has a very long reaching stride, while Trauti's is shorter and more animated. Both are comfortable to ride - they are just different. Karen

Re: [IceHorses] High Heads / Necks

2008-07-05 Thread Karen Thomas
There are so many things to look for and the neck and shoulders are just a couple of many. Karen posted a post about Tivar? about his conformation and listed many things to look at, good to read. I'm glad you enjoyed that, Skye. I'll try to get a similar picture of him without tack

[IceHorses] Fat circus ponies....versus muscled rears?

2008-07-05 Thread Karen Thomas
was on his back in the video If there was ever a horse that didn't look fat it was Melnir in that video. Maybe the fat pony is just a standard slur (like, ya mutha wears jockey shoits) not related to reality at all...:) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] High Heads / Necks

2008-07-05 Thread Karen Thomas
just order the options we like and expect them to all work together well. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] overstride and gait and what it all means...

2008-07-05 Thread Karen Thomas
the stylistic parts of gait. That's probably a better word than symptom. :) Karen Thomas, NC

[IceHorses] Magic

2008-07-05 Thread Karen Thomas
and quickly. Tell him that his sister (Flekka), niece (Princess Buttercup) and nephew (Isak) want him to get well quickly! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Fat circus ponies....versus muscled rears?

2008-07-05 Thread Karen Thomas
I'm not sure if I have the terminology correct, but it's something I've always referred to as panty-waist. What did the instructor in Stan's video call it - a weenie-butt? Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] cut and run

2008-07-05 Thread Karen Thomas
Elska and Solon and Peppy, had intended to come for a visit, and I was just about to get off the motor cycle when they decided they had enough. What a cool picture! I love that you show up in the rear-view mirror of the motorcycle - that really tells the rest of the story! Karen Thomas

Re: [IceHorses] Re: Fat circus ponies....versus muscled rears?

2008-07-05 Thread Karen Thomas
horses either. Notice that the saddle maker, in the video of the first Icelandic, admired his rear-end and said it was like a 17h draft horse. Maybe an exaggeration, but that is where the engine is. Exactly, and experienced horse people know that. :) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] High Heads / Necks

2008-07-05 Thread Karen Thomas
-necked Icelandic over most swan-necked Arabs...necks just aren't THAT big a deal for what I need a horse to do. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Pink Stuff

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
... Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Sightseeing on the trail

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
That's allotta bling on that sidepull Looks good. Yeah, but I do call him Mr. T about half the time...he just needs a few gold chains now. Janice sent him here with the Mohawk 'do already done. :) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Sightseeing on the trail

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
he is like the don rickles of icelandics whereas Trausti is like the john denver of icelandics. nasi is like the carrot top of icelandics HA!!! Oh man, did you ever nail the first two - I don't know Nasi well enough to know if he's Carrottop! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Sightseeing on the trail

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
it) exists in this breed. Now, answer me honestly, do you REALLY think you could train Nasi into being a horse like Stonewall...? :) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] When bad conformation is good...

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
symptoms, and the improvement in his attitude was marked.) When I get short-tempered about traditional/show-type Icelandic riding, this is why. The abuse has a name on it in my pasture: Tivar. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Sightseeing on the trail

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
. The humidity wears me out. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Mr. T's jewels...and look at that face!

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
Glad to hear Tivar is doing so well. That sidepull is gorgeous. Looks like it has jewelry on it!!! I love Turquoise anyway! Ferne Thanks Ferne. I keep forgetting that you used to trail ride with him sometimes. He's doing wonderfully well, and I adore him. Any news on Magic? Karen

Re: [IceHorses] What Gait / Black Icelandic

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
phase either.So, I don't think it's literally any previously named gait. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] BLUP

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
that, it falls apart. What makes me like a horse - or want to breed the horse - is MUCH more complicated than a soy bean. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] When bad conformation is good...

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
joints produce. I wouldn't want to breed for any more knee action than he has, but I'd put his in the viva la difference end of normal. I can't imagine putting shoes or bell boots on him to make him have MORE. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic Horse Conformation

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
read Easter chicks, Barbie high heels and Isadore Duncan in the same sentence...and certainly without hearing scotch taped used as a verb with those words. :) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Our pasture, new barn, and the girls

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
Cali looks like she is happy as can be! (think aqua bling :) Janice I think Jacki is leaning towards royal blue for Cali. We did her colors while she was visiting. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] BLUP

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
. Karen Thomas, NC

[IceHorses] More Turquoise bling

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
http://cgi.ebay.com/Alamo-Turquoise-Crystals-Horse-Headstall-Bridle-Bling_W0QQitemZ270251878273QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270251878273_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318#ebayphotohosting Or: http://tinyurl.com/6chdyh No, I'm not going to bid! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] hives or bug bites

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
. The cases we've had where the horses didn't seem uncomfortable seemed to get better in a day or two on their own, with no treatment. I did have one horse get an itchy case of hives many years ago, and I called the vet out for him. He was pretty uncomfortable. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Our pasture, new barn, and the girls

2008-07-04 Thread Karen Thomas
: is Tractor Supply Company your favorite store in the whole world yet? When that's true, you'll know your lifelong fantasy of owning a horse farm is real ;) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] High Heads / Necks

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
that in this breed, although I know some breeders are now breeding Icelandic's for long necks. It makes me shudder. It doesn't bother me at all that there is some variation in necks and headsets in this breed, but I hate that particular extreme. JMHO though. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Re: Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
shock. Ever notice how stiff-legged many of the top level Icelandic riders are? I'm sure that is the base of their pogo-stick. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
Karen, don't ever do a trot lesson with Mary Wanless. Well, I doubt I will, but why do you say that? Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
a good solid seat it's when the unexpected arises on the trail. I probably ride as much without stirrups on the trail as I do in the arena, probably more. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic Horse Conformation

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
deepness refers to a feel rather than any particular outward appearance. Yes, you may be able to see that the rider with a good (deep) seat looks more balanced, more confident, more secure, but I don't think the appearance changes so literally in the physical realm. Any thoughts? Karen

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
. It's only well after the rider has enough feel of the horse to post instinctively that she is allowed to even consider the sitting trot. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Re: Positive example - finally!

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
from the rider, it also often disappears from the horse. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
-butts can get away with worse riding style than I can.I'm not so lucky, so I have to work harder - for myself and for the benefit of my horses. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
many bears or steep hills in any show ring I've experienced. If you need to brace in a flat, groomed arena, something is indeed amiss! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
she wrote: I have a book she wrote, and I read this article, but I guess I still don't get your point - I must have missed something. What does she say is contrary to the idea of learning to ride the trot in a subtle, balanced way...? Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic Horse Conformation

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
as the illusions, games, feelings don't grow to the point to be harmful to the horses, and as long as we keep their best interests in mind, who cares? I am going to pretend to be Connie Reeves sometimes when I ride now, hoping it will make me live longer! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
very little energy, just that it shouldn't be exaggerated. Tivar is my new ThighMaster. :) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] EEE not WNV

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
Uhmn, has anyone noticed the rain in the midwest lately? The southeast? Maybe in your part of the southeast, but we're back to being dry as a bone... Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Our pasture, new barn, and the girls

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
. Your place is gorgeous and the barn looks great. Enjoy! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
haven't run up on any on the trail yet. I have seen a couple on our property though, just at a distance. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Re: Icelandic Trot

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
, and the more options we hear, the better prepared we are to make decisions for our horses... and that's a very good thing. I really enjoy your videos, and will try to watch all of these as soon as I get a chance. Karen Thomas, NC

[IceHorses] Runa's progress - steering in gait

2008-07-03 Thread Karen Thomas
and forward than some Icelandic's, but I'm not sure she'll have the motivation to do a true rack/tolt...and that's fine with me. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic / TB Crosses

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
depressing. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Nipped me!

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
doesn't have to be dramatic. I don't think it is so critical WHERE the line is drawn so much as the consistency with which you enforce it and that you enforce it with respect and affection. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
want to continue working on making the horses comfortable in many situations, never feeling that their training is finished, but I can tell you from experience, that sometimes you just don't see a hole in your horses training until you put him/her in a certain situation! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Nipped me!

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
be quietly sharing the same pile of hay. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
horse. (Was that a pun?) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic Horse Conformation

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
to be ridden on ice trait. (Not.) Sheesh. Do people really believe that genetics work like that? Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
differently to gait versus trot? I've never changed mine based on what gait I'm doing. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Posting to trot

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
not true for all Icelandic's...or any gaited breed for that matter. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] BIG flies

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
against the use of bug zappers. They said that bug zappers mainly attract moths, and some moth-type insects actually kill and eat some of the smaller and peskier bugs. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
. Most of us who started riding in traditional English lessons (Nancy...?) probably remember learning to post with no stirrups at all! (Oh, the agony at first!) When posting, your weight should be across your inner thighs, with your abs and lower back getting a workout. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Re: Resistant to leg, gaiting question

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
when I had teev ( karen stole him from me) Well, you started it. You stole him from me first... ;) so I put my toe in and pressed my calf and he went into it instaantly. we have to speak the language they were taught or teach them new cues. The cues for lateral work that we use

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!/ Now Icelandic Trot

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
and bracing isn't good. Also, if you have to make a quick dismount, you can do so more quickly if your feet are free. Of course, I've learned to depend on groundwork more and more, so I try not to get myself in those situations, but it's another reason not to depend on your stirrups. Karen

Re: [IceHorses] Icelandic Horse Conformation

2008-07-02 Thread Karen Thomas
, and don't try to change it dramatically. Afterall, Trausti and Skjoni both have lovely gaits - the head carriage is one detail and isn't what makes or breaks their natural gaitedness. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Horse hair jewelry

2008-07-01 Thread Karen Thomas
very, very sorry. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] chewing thing

2008-07-01 Thread Karen Thomas
can anyone advise what to use for a horse that chews trees? We've found two things that work: cut the tree or fence it off. Some trees don't appeal to them - they never chew on our pecan trees or pines, but they love oaks. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] car wash

2008-07-01 Thread Karen Thomas
of her training. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Nipped me!

2008-07-01 Thread Karen Thomas
in. I will be very surprised if he makes a habit of it though - he was probably just testing the waters, to see what is, and isn't allowed in his happy new home. I doubt he was trying to hurt you - how would he know how much it takes to hurt a human? Now he knows... :) Karen Thomas, NC

[IceHorses] Positive example - finally!

2008-07-01 Thread Karen Thomas
that's a big accomplishment. I think it's impressive to see this many horses going so pleasantly - maybe it's because they went for a relatively simple pattern, at slow-medium speeds, rather than pushing speed at the expense of precision and horsemanship. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!

2008-07-01 Thread Karen Thomas
and his saddle. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Positive example - finally!

2008-07-01 Thread Karen Thomas
to find that it's still slightly broken. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Grazing muzzle question

2008-06-30 Thread Karen Thomas
, ladiesDon't you think MAYBE it's time to change the subject line ;) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Was: bitless video, now name question

2008-06-30 Thread Karen Thomas
Nazis could lighten up a bit and get a sense of humor! Hey, could I name a filly Sylvia Night? http://youtube.com/watch?v=LEos9VLtgFU Karen Thomas, NC, proud grandmare of Hroi Hrogers and Princess Buttercup...

Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip

2008-06-30 Thread Karen Thomas
of understanding us and what we like...if we let them. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Re: ALA in Icelandic grass

2008-06-30 Thread Karen Thomas
needy and unwanted, and try to give merely good health care to all of them. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Re: ALA in Icelandic grass

2008-06-30 Thread Karen Thomas
of the equine conservancy websites - the numbers for the truly rare breeds are staggering. I think we should be very careful about in-breeding in this breed, to preserve the diversity we have though. How many McCurdy's are there? A thousand or less? Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] BLUP

2008-06-30 Thread Karen Thomas
embarrassed I became. If anyone has any doubts, please read through that link Judy posted on her website. BLUP falls apart on any level you analyze it - it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Manipulated Gaits

2008-06-30 Thread Karen Thomas
means aren't inheritable. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Re: ALA in Icelandic grass

2008-06-30 Thread Karen Thomas
proud that I saw one duplicated ancestor on each of Holly's and Mac's five-generation pedigrees, meaning their inbreeding was minimal at least. I think some poor horses are their own uncles! Karen Thomas, NC

[IceHorses] Preparing for Bart, the Banker Horse

2008-06-30 Thread Karen Thomas
, but until I see the best way to get to that point, at least I can just open his stall door, and encourage him forward until he's in the RP. I hope he's about as exciting as Cali was when she got here... :) Janice, when can I expect my FCPTA DVD's to arrive? Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Back to the ring successfully

2008-06-30 Thread Karen Thomas
bet you are giving her more guidance on the trail regarding the finesse details, and if so, she is probably getting some ring work in the woods.She sounds lovely - but we do need more pictures of her! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] My Gusti

2008-06-29 Thread Karen Thomas
. Hang in there, girl. Please let us know about the autospsy, as soon as you are composed enough to do so. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Re: My Gusti

2008-06-29 Thread Karen Thomas
A beautiful and sweet boy. What a great picture... Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Runaways

2008-06-29 Thread Karen Thomas
in life come from. :) Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Riding With a Whip

2008-06-29 Thread Karen Thomas
NH trainers teach to use whatever they choose to call their version of a carrot stick. A fly whisk simply has too many uses for me to stop using one! Just make sure your horse is comfortable with one before you try riding with one. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Young horse training basics - trail

2008-06-29 Thread Karen Thomas
out riding, especially at Moses Cone... Karen Thomas, NC IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent

[IceHorses] Was: bitless video, now name question

2008-06-29 Thread Karen Thomas
Iceland. So...Is Gabriella an Icelandic name? That's the name of the second horse in the video. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Young horse training basics

2008-06-28 Thread Karen Thomas
Shall I compile all of the suggestions and put them on a page? It would be fine with me. and if anyone has any more suggestions, please feel free to speak up. Karen Thomas, NC

[IceHorses] American Livestock Conservancy

2008-06-28 Thread Karen Thomas
, Pryor and the Sulfurs are a few of the distinct breeds that fall under the general umbrella of Colonial Spanish Horses. Karen Thomas, NC

[IceHorses] Corolla Wild Horses

2008-06-28 Thread Karen Thomas
%20Report/hoa-report.pdf Some of you will recognize the names of Dr. Gus Cothran and Dr. Phillip Sponenburg. They are two of the equine genetic researchers who are studying these horses as well as all of the Spanish Colonial horses. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Buck with the ladies

2008-06-28 Thread Karen Thomas
enjoyed his picture anyway! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Re: bitless video

2008-06-28 Thread Karen Thomas
the captions don't seem to be asking for suggestions, but instead seem to be drawing conclusions. Maybe: Nice pants...? Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] walter zettl

2008-06-28 Thread Karen Thomas
Does anyone have the dressage dvd's by this man. They are called a matter of trust. I would like to buy the first one. Can anyone tell me if they have found them useful. Sue Coombes I don't have them, but I've been tempted. If you get them, please let me know what you think. Karen

Re: [IceHorses] Re: Kids and NH

2008-06-28 Thread Karen Thomas
like you're doing wonderfully well on your own, but I know the feeling, when you get a bit stuck. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Trausti at the vet

2008-06-28 Thread Karen Thomas
? :) Karen Thomas, NC, expecting any time for Janice's stories to be interrupted by a sudden, Puppy biscuits!

Re: [IceHorses] Horse Buying Disappointment

2008-06-27 Thread Karen Thomas
i might let you keep him. He didnt help my thighs much at all... Janice Ha! You didn't post the trot, did you? My thighs are killing me this morning, which means I needed to post! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Horse Buying Disappointment

2008-06-27 Thread Karen Thomas
i might let you keep him. He didnt help my thighs much at all... Janice R U talking about a horse or husband? Ha! Janice would never let me have Donny (her husband)! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] OT-Camping where it is cool

2008-06-27 Thread Karen Thomas
i love a mans belly where you can smush your face in it. I wouldnt want one of those hard bellys. Okay - another one for the Janice collection. I was just thinking the same thing! Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Young horse training basics - trail

2008-06-27 Thread Karen Thomas
personality/confidence factor that makes a horse willing to do it, but that early handling definitely seems to have an effect too. Then of course, there's the confidence that comes from good experiences and maturity. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] cell phone pic of Runa's trail ride

2008-06-27 Thread Karen Thomas
is not his thing (what an understatement!) that is his job. She's a good sized mare, built much like Skjoni, so I expect she'll do fine with him up. Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] Young horse training basics - trail

2008-06-27 Thread Karen Thomas
horses six months from now, Runa for Tosca, I'd like to think that within a short settling out/adjusting time, Runa could pick up Tosca's current role for you, and Tosca could fairly quickly become a Thunder/Gat type horse for the Emily/Karen and the Alex/Virginias of the world. (I have

Re: [IceHorses] Young horse training basics

2008-06-27 Thread Karen Thomas
These are great checklists, Karen - thanks for putting them together - I am saving them. I don't have anyone young ones now but I think all horses should be reviewing their lessons periodically. No problem. I'm also hoping to get feedback for anything I've missed. Of course, we'll each

Re: [IceHorses] Carolina Marsh Tacky

2008-06-27 Thread Karen Thomas
Karen, are these horses related to your new horses? http://www.equus-survival-trust.org/ It mentions the Abaco Horses (lots of splashes) in the Bahamas. Yes, they've been isolated long enough that they are considered distinct breeds, but they have the same origins. NC has two breeds

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