Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-30 Thread Joseph McAllister
What happened to the good old days, before I got old, and it was just you and me. We knew everything too. On Nov 30, 2011, at 06:12 , Dario Bonazza wrote: > Doug Franklin wrote: > >> On 2011-11-29 13:18, Dario Bonazza wrote: >> >>> (I'm not sure I succeeded in expressing my thought so well, >>

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-30 Thread Dario Bonazza
Doug Franklin wrote: On 2011-11-29 13:18, Dario Bonazza wrote: (I'm not sure I succeeded in expressing my thought so well, but perhaps you'll get it) I think you expressed it pretty darned well, Dario. And I completely agree with what you say regarding building a "community of the like-mi

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Larry Colen
On Nov 29, 2011, at 8:37 AM, John Sessoms wrote: > From: Rick Womer >> Do I want to know what IFQ stands for? > > Image for Qritique? I'd go with RFC, Request For Critique just because I like to confuse people by repurposing TLAs. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDM

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread William Robb
On 29/11/2011 9:12 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: Hey - Ashley reads the list with me! Watch your mouth! I'm not shooting in the studio all that much any more. I'm thinking of the kittens. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Doug Franklin
On 2011-11-29 1:07, Rob Studdert wrote: A FB community page or organisation page (I co-manage one) can have a number of admins which negates that need for handovers etc. Nice. I've never done that (FB community/organization page) so I wasn't aware. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Doug Franklin
On 2011-11-29 13:18, Dario Bonazza wrote: (I'm not sure I succeeded in expressing my thought so well, but perhaps you'll get it) I think you expressed it pretty darned well, Dario. And I completely agree with what you say regarding building a "community of the like-minded". For me, it's mo

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Jack Davis
scuss Mail List Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:49 AM Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism I don't know, Ann.  It seems to me that the comments have been rather polite and non-critical of late.  Six or nine months ago, I received some detailed and pointed constructive criticisms o

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread John Sessoms
From: "Daniel J. Matyola" So, can we agree that on a PESO or GESO or PUG entry or whatever, if the poster invites criticism, those who have an opinion of any sort are free to express it, and to give positive or negative feedback, as long as the comments are directed to the merits or failings of

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Jack Davis
Deal! Jack - Original Message - From: Ann Sanfedele To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism On 11/29/2011 12:41, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: > So, can we agree that on a PESO or GESO or PUG entry or whate

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Larry Colen
On 11/29/2011 10:49 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: I don't know, Ann. It seems to me that the comments have been rather polite and non-critical of late. Six or nine months ago, I received some detailed and pointed constructive criticisms on a number of images, but that hasn't been the case for

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Keith Mosier
I’ve been out of the loop lately: not even able to lurk. Larry, the brain dump is a very good start. Your "rules" actually apply to a lot of life in general. There are a lot of good comments in this thread. The only reason I post photos is to get feedback from a group of people who collectively

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Daniel J. Matyola
I don't know, Ann. It seems to me that the comments have been rather polite and non-critical of late. Six or nine months ago, I received some detailed and pointed constructive criticisms on a number of images, but that hasn't been the case for the last few months. As a result, I find myself post

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread David J Brooks
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: > So, can we agree that on a PESO or GESO or PUG entry or whatever, if > the poster invites criticism, those who have an opinion of any sort > are free to express it, and to give positive or negative feedback, as > long as the comments are

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Ann Sanfedele
On 11/29/2011 12:41, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: So, can we agree that on a PESO or GESO or PUG entry or whatever, if the poster invites criticism, those who have an opinion of any sort are free to express it, and to give positive or negative feedback, as long as the comments are directed to the m

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Dario Bonazza
Daniel J. Matyola wrote: So, can we agree that on a PESO or GESO or PUG entry or whatever, if the poster invites criticism, those who have an opinion of any sort are free to express it, and to give positive or negative feedback, as long as the comments are directed to the merits or failings of t

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Daniel J. Matyola
So, can we agree that on a PESO or GESO or PUG entry or whatever, if the poster invites criticism, those who have an opinion of any sort are free to express it, and to give positive or negative feedback, as long as the comments are directed to the merits or failings of the image, and not personal i

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Charles Robinson
On Nov 25, 2011, at 18:06, William Robb wrote: > I tried to give a critique one time and was told to accept the photograph on > it's own merits, and either accept it for what it was or STFU. > And now you know why most every photograph that is shown here, whether it be > a stunning landscape or a

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread John Sessoms
From: Rick Womer Do I want to know what IFQ stands for? Image for Qritique? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Ann Sanfedele
Hey - Ashley reads the list with me! Watch your mouth! ann On 11/29/2011 03:20, Bob W wrote: [...] Did you know that every time I do a studio shoot a kitten dies? -- William Robb I think I read somewhere that you don't have to cover them in magnesium to make them flash anymore, you can

RE: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread J.C. O'Connell
f Of Paul Stenquist Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 7:38 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism On Nov 29, 2011, at 6:28 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: > Bob W wrote: > >>> Thus it starts. The proliferation of alphabet acronyms that leads >>> to

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Paul Stenquist
On Nov 29, 2011, at 6:28 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: > Bob W wrote: > >>> Thus it starts. The proliferation of alphabet acronyms that leads to >>> complete communication breakdown. >>> >> PAA => CCB > > OMG! > > WTF? > -- > Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia > www.robertstech.com > >

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Mark Roberts
Bob W wrote: >> Thus it starts. The proliferation of alphabet acronyms that leads to >> complete communication breakdown. >> >PAA => CCB OMG! -- Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/

RE: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Bob W
[...] > > Did you know that every time I do a studio shoot a kitten dies? > > -- > > William Robb > I think I read somewhere that you don't have to cover them in magnesium to make them flash anymore, you can get some sort of electronic thing. Probably not as effective, but might be worth inve

RE: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-29 Thread Bob W
PAA => CCB > > Thus it starts. The proliferation of alphabet acronyms that leads to > complete communication breakdown. > > On 11/28/2011 8:18 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: > > I still say that we should have two types of submissions: PESOs > > (pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing) and I

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Rob Studdert
On 27 November 2011 13:45, Doug "Lefty" Franklin wrote: > I think it could be a good thing.  However, it has the same governance > issues as the PUG and the PDML: someone has to be "first point of contact" > and "owner" at any point it time.  And some sort of transition will be > required when so

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread knarftheria...@gmail.com
by the list at large. I don't think that more acronyms or initialisms will do much more than clutter our already busy lives. Cheers, frank --- Original Message --- From: Brian Walters Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11 To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" Subject: Re: Giving and taking cr

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Ann Sanfedele
, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism I still say that we should have two types of submissions: PESOs (pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing) and IFQ: Images submitted for discussion and critiques. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Ann Sanfedele
I F Q ? dangerous acronym, that Dan! lol ann On 11/28/2011 21:54, Brian Walters wrote: On Monday, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: I still say that we should have two types of submissions: PESOs (pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing) and IFQ: Images submitted for

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread P. J. Alling
Hum, probably not. On 11/28/2011 10:20 PM, Rick Womer wrote: Do I want to know what IFQ stands for? Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: Daniel J. Matyola To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Cc: Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Giving and

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread P. J. Alling
Thus it starts. The proliferation of alphabet acronyms that leads to complete communication breakdown. On 11/28/2011 8:18 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: I still say that we should have two types of submissions: PESOs (pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing) and IFQ: Images submitted for di

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Tom C
> >> 7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the >> positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued >> excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with >> practice, so I feel no need to give instruction. > > Well, yes and no. Only givi

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Rick Womer
Do I want to know what IFQ stands for? Rick   http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: Daniel J. Matyola To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Cc: Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism I still say that we should have two types of

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Doug Franklin
On 2011-11-28 21:54, Brian Walters wrote: By all means give that a try but, I think a statement in a PESO noting that "comments and suggestions are welcome" (or similar), should be enough. I'm can't understand why a statement like that shouldn't be taken at face value. I agree, but with a cav

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Christine Nielsen
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:21 PM, William Robb wrote: > On 28/11/2011 12:21 PM, Tom C wrote: >> > >> 7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the >> positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued >> excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a b

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Brian Walters
On Monday, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM, "Daniel J. Matyola" wrote: > I still say that we should have two types of submissions: PESOs > (pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing) and IFQ: Images > submitted for discussion and critiques. > By all means give that a try but, I think a statement i

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Daniel J. Matyola
I still say that we should have two types of submissions: PESOs (pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing) and IFQ: Images submitted for discussion and critiques. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:21 PM, William Robb wrote: > On 28/11/20

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread William Robb
On 28/11/2011 2:04 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: Stop being agreeable, but then I guess you can't help it, you're Canadian. I'll try to make up for Frank's agree-ability. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE fr

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread William Robb
On 28/11/2011 12:21 PM, Tom C wrote: 7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread P. J. Alling
On 11/28/2011 3:34 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Nov 28, 2011, at 12:33 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: We're a very polite people (with the exception of Bill Robb). ;-) (just kidding, Bill) He's not a person? I don't know, you should ask his wife. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent fr

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Larry Colen
On Nov 28, 2011, at 12:33 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote: > We're a very polite people (with the exception of Bill Robb). > > ;-) > > (just kidding, Bill) He's not a person? > -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdm

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread knarftheria...@gmail.com
We're a very polite people (with the exception of Bill Robb). ;-) (just kidding, Bill) cheers, frank --- Original Message --- From: "P. J. Alling" Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11 To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism Stop be

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread P. J. Alling
Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism Well put, Tom.. Nice summing up of the whole bit ann On 11/28/2011 13:21, Tom C wrote: Been out and about at Bryce and Zion National Parks over the weekend. I may have one or two shots to display. :-) Here's my thoughts on this semi-annual topic

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread knarftheria...@gmail.com
I agree with Ann. Cheers, frank --- Original Message --- From: Ann Sanfedele Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11 To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism Well put, Tom.. Nice summing up of the whole bit ann On 11/28/2011 13:21, Tom C wrote: > Been

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Ann Sanfedele
Well put, Tom.. Nice summing up of the whole bit ann On 11/28/2011 13:21, Tom C wrote: Been out and about at Bryce and Zion National Parks over the weekend. I may have one or two shots to display. :-) Here's my thoughts on this semi-annual topic: 1. If a person posts a picture they're invitin

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-28 Thread Tom C
Been out and about at Bryce and Zion National Parks over the weekend. I may have one or two shots to display. :-) Here's my thoughts on this semi-annual topic: 1. If a person posts a picture they're inviting a response. Usually they're expecting a positive response I believe, otherwise they likel

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Ann Sanfedele
I presume you mean re Facebook, not expatritism to Canada :-) ann On 11/27/2011 13:43, Jack Davis wrote: I'd as soon experience bedbug infestation. Jack From: Ann Sanfedele To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Brian Walters
On Sunday, November 27, 2011 3:37 PM, "Mark Roberts" wrote: > mike wilson wrote: > > >On 27/11/2011 03:34, Christine Aguila wrote: > >> That's an interesting idea. What do folks think? Cheers, Christine > > > >As I understand it PUG is for list members, actively contributing or > >not. Wh

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Mark Roberts
mike wilson wrote: >On 27/11/2011 03:34, Christine Aguila wrote: >> That's an interesting idea. What do folks think? Cheers, Christine > >As I understand it PUG is for list members, actively contributing or >not. Why would we want to promote it? The idea would be to promote The List. More

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread John Sessoms
From: Christine Aguila That's an interesting idea. What do folks think? Cheers, Christine On Nov 26, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: Christine Aguila wrote: I value the PUG, Brian!Cheers, Christine As far as promoting the PUG goes, it would be quick and easy to set up a PU

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread mike wilson
On 27/11/2011 03:34, Christine Aguila wrote: That's an interesting idea. What do folks think? Cheers, Christine As I understand it PUG is for list members, actively contributing or not. Why would we want to promote it? On Nov 26, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: Christine Agui

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Jack Davis
I'd as soon experience bedbug infestation.   Jack From: Ann Sanfedele To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism On 11/27/2011 10:58, David J Brooks wrote: > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Ann Sanfedele  wrote: >

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Doug Franklin
On 2011-11-26 19:00, Brian Walters wrote: Well, I suppose it's a matter of available time. For me, it's hugely a matter of available time. As Paul mentioned, if I tried to comment on every posted photo or gallery, I'd never have time for anything else. And a constructive "near miss" messag

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Doug Franklin
On 2011-11-25 19:15, Tim Bray wrote: I think it’s a little more nuanced than that. If I think a PESO is worthless, I say nothing. If I think it’s great, I’ll say so and if I can, add a word or two about why. If i think a picture is worthwhile and could be improved by cropping or color adjustmen

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Daniel J. Matyola
I am far from a FaceBook fan, but I think a page for the PDML is a great idea, if someone is willing and able to set it up and maintain it. If we attract a few idiots who are not our type of idiots, a few days on the list will drive those folk away. We are a unique and idiosyncratic bunch, and th

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Bran Everseeking
On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:29:20 -0500 Mark Roberts wrote: > As far as promoting the PUG goes, it would be quick and easy to set up > a PUG Facebook page. Might even attract some people to The List. I am cheating here having read some dissent then coming back to this point. Promoting the PUG could

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Bran Everseeking
On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:17:49 -0500 "P. J. Alling" wrote: > I'm not sure I'd be in favor of that, just about every kind of idiot > uses facebook, whereas it takes a special kind of idiot to subscribe > to the PDML and post to the PUG. MARK! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http:/

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Bran Everseeking
On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:06:50 -0600 William Robb wrote: > Most people don't want a critique, they want an ego massage, and no > one likes to be told that their image is an excruciatingly boring, > poor rendering of a banal and cliched subject. sad true and entirely useless to all concerned. on t

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Paul Stenquist
On Nov 27, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > > > On 11/27/2011 10:58, David J Brooks wrote: >> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: >>> In terms of exposure (no pun) for the PUG a bunch of us just liking it and >>> sharing the link it would possibly increase visitation

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Ann Sanfedele
On 11/27/2011 10:58, David J Brooks wrote: On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: In terms of exposure (no pun) for the PUG a bunch of us just liking it and sharing the link it would possibly increase visitation without having to disenfranchise the anti-facebook population on t

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread David J Brooks
On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > In terms of exposure (no pun) for the PUG a bunch of us just liking it and > sharing the link it would possibly increase visitation without having to > disenfranchise the anti-facebook population on the list, eh? When did you become Canadian

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Ann Sanfedele
In terms of exposure (no pun) for the PUG a bunch of us just liking it and sharing the link it would possibly increase visitation without having to disenfranchise the anti-facebook population on the list, eh? ann On 11/27/2011 07:12, Mark Roberts wrote: "P. J. Alling" wrote: I'm not sure I

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-27 Thread Mark Roberts
"P. J. Alling" wrote: >I'm not sure I'd be in favor of that, just about every kind of idiot >uses facebook, whereas it takes a special kind of idiot to subscribe to >the PDML and post to the PUG. Well the useful thing about Fcebook is that people who "like" the PUG wouldn't automatically be el

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Ann Sanfedele
On 11/26/2011 22:17, P. J. Alling wrote: I'm not sure I'd be in favor of that, just about every kind of idiot uses facebook, whereas it takes a special kind of idiot to subscribe to the PDML and post to the PUG. Me too, Pete ann On 11/26/2011 9:34 PM, Christine Aguila wrote: That's an int

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Christine Aguila
Point taken! :-). Cheers, Christine On Nov 26, 2011, at 9:17 PM, "P. J. Alling" wrote: > I'm not sure I'd be in favor of that, just about every kind of idiot uses > facebook, whereas it takes a special kind of idiot to subscribe to the PDML > and post to the PUG. > > On 11/26/2011 9:34 PM

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread P. J. Alling
I'm not sure I'd be in favor of that, just about every kind of idiot uses facebook, whereas it takes a special kind of idiot to subscribe to the PDML and post to the PUG. On 11/26/2011 9:34 PM, Christine Aguila wrote: That's an interesting idea. What do folks think? Cheers, Christine O

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Doug "Lefty" Franklin
On 2011-11-26 21:34, Christine Aguila wrote: That's an interesting idea. What do folks think? Cheers, Christine As far as promoting the PUG goes, it would be quick and easy to set up a PUG Facebook page. Might even attract some people to The List. I think it could be a good thing. Howe

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Christine Aguila
That's an interesting idea. What do folks think? Cheers, Christine On Nov 26, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > Christine Aguila wrote: > >> I value the PUG, Brian!Cheers, Christine > > As far as promoting the PUG goes, it would be quick and easy to set up > a PUG Facebook p

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Mark Roberts
Christine Aguila wrote: >I value the PUG, Brian!Cheers, Christine As far as promoting the PUG goes, it would be quick and easy to set up a PUG Facebook page. Might even attract some people to The List. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pd

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Ann Sanfedele
On 11/26/2011 19:38, Paul Stenquist wrote: On Nov 26, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: On 11/26/2011 19:00, Brian Walters wrote: snip... I have no evidence to back it up but I suspect most people here look at galleries in the way I suggested. You've only got to look at how few

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Christine Aguila
I value the PUG, Brian!Cheers, Christine On Nov 26, 2011, at 7:31 PM, "Brian Walters" wrote: > On Saturday, November 26, 2011 7:19 PM, "Ann Sanfedele" > wrote: >> >> >> On 11/26/2011 19:00, Brian Walters wrote: >>> snip... >>> >>> I have no evidence to back it up but I suspect mos

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Brian Walters
On Saturday, November 26, 2011 7:19 PM, "Ann Sanfedele" wrote: > > > On 11/26/2011 19:00, Brian Walters wrote: > >snip... > > > > I have no evidence to back it up but I suspect most people here look at > > galleries in the way I suggested. You've only got to look at how few > > comments the

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Paul Stenquist
On Nov 26, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: > > > On 11/26/2011 19:00, Brian Walters wrote: >> snip... >> >> I have no evidence to back it up but I suspect most people here look at >> galleries in the way I suggested. You've only got to look at how few >> comments the monthly PUG re

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Ann Sanfedele
On 11/26/2011 19:00, Brian Walters wrote: snip... I have no evidence to back it up but I suspect most people here look at galleries in the way I suggested. You've only got to look at how few comments the monthly PUG receives. Sometimes I wonder if anyone, other than the contributors, loo

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Brian Walters
On Saturday, November 26, 2011 2:59 PM, "Tim Bray" wrote: > On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Brian Walters > wrote: > > > Yes, I regard GESOs as being posted for enjoyment, not critical comment. > >  I'll usually nominate a couple of favourites but nothing much more. > > Interesting; that appro

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Tim Bray
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Brian Walters wrote: > Yes, I regard GESOs as being posted for enjoyment, not critical comment. >  I'll usually nominate a couple of favourites but nothing much more. Interesting; that approach had never crossed my mind. A thematically-linked album of photos fee

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Brian Walters
ns-ryan.org/southernlight/ > > Kenneth Waller > http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller > > - Original Message - > From: "Paul Stenquist" > Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism > > > > After reading Ann's comment, i have to add

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread kwaller
y.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Paul Stenquist" Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism After reading Ann's comment, i have to add the same qualifier to my previous comment. I can't possibly comment on every photo -- I'd never get any wo

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread steve harley
on 2011-11-26 07:03 Daniel J. Matyola wrote I also agree that there is no criticism harsher than getting no comments at all on a PESO. To me that means not only that no one liked it, but also that no one thought there was any hope of fixing it or improving on it. I would much rather hear "That

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Jack Davis
I have.  =] Jack - Original Message - From: Christine Aguila To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Cc: Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 11:59 AM Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism On Nov 26, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Cotty wrote: >> > > I'm sorry. > > (I'm Briti

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Brian Walters
On Saturday, November 26, 2011 2:23 PM, "John Sessoms" wrote: > From: David Parsons > > > An idea was floated last year that if you wanted, or were okay with > > critique to use a different tag than PESO. Nothing ever came of it, > > but it's always an option for people who just want to share, a

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Christine Aguila
On Nov 26, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Cotty wrote: >> > > I'm sorry. > > (I'm British). > I've never held that against you! :-) Cheers, Christine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directl

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread John Sessoms
From: David Parsons An idea was floated last year that if you wanted, or were okay with critique to use a different tag than PESO. Nothing ever came of it, but it's always an option for people who just want to share, and those who want active feedback. Someone on list has a sig that says some

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Cotty
On 26/11/11, Christine Aguila, discombobulated, unleashed: >I agree with Rick and Brian. And I agree with Ken. I'm sorry. (I'm British). -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML P

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Tim Bray
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:03 AM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: > I also agree that there is no criticism harsher than getting no > comments at all on a PESO.  To me that means not only that no one > liked it, but also that no one thought there was any hope of fixing it > or improving on it.  I would m

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread P. J. Alling
On 11/25/2011 7:06 PM, William Robb wrote: On 25/11/2011 2:18 PM, Larry Colen wrote: One thing I haven't seen a lot of is discussion on how to give and take criticism. And a related discussion of what venues on the net, or off, are good for that sort of discussion. -- That's because we don

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Paul Stenquist
jump to an indignant defense >> of an image by means of demeaning comments directed at the critique's author. >> >> Jack >> . >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Paul Stenquist >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Cc: >

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Stan Halpin
On Nov 25, 2011, at 7:06 PM, William Robb wrote: > > Most people don't want a critique, they want an ego massage, and no one likes > to be told that their image is an excruciatingly boring, poor rendering of a > banal and cliched subject. > I can agree that no one likes to hear such a message

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Christine Nielsen
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: I have to say, I'm with Ann when she says: > But I hope noone ever reads the _lack_ of any comment at all by me > (or, for that matter, lots of others of us) as an automatic thumbs down - > the randomness with which I read the list and look

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Christine Aguila
On Nov 26, 2011, at 7:02 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > > > >> >> When no one comments on a photo I've posted, I count that as a statement in >> itself: BORING! Same here. When I get no comments on stuff I've posted, I think the same thing. Cheers, Christine > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Ann Sanfedele
o jump to an indignant defense of an image by means of demeaning comments directed at the critique's author. Jack . - Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Cc: Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 5:02 AM Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism On Nov 26, 2011,

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Jack Davis
ate for a third party to jump to an indignant defense of an image by means of demeaning comments directed at the critique's author. Jack .    - Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Cc: Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 5:02 AM Subject: Re: Giving

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread David J Brooks
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: > It's important to note that the "regular member" didn't just critique the > photo. He told the photographer that he should be ashamed at having posted > such inferior work and generally directed his comments at the person rather > than th

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread David J Brooks
I to enjoy praises and knock downs of my photos, i use this information on any re shoots and future endeavors. As far as being able to take and handle criticism and reject,. i think people of my generation were taught how to fail, that it was not the end of the world. I think a lot of younger peopl

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Daniel J. Matyola
I miss the days when I got scathing comments on my PESOs. They were always helpful, or at least thought provoking, even when the comments were a little hurtful. I'm a big boy, and I can take criticism. I made it though Marine boot camp, where I was insulted by professionals. I realize that I a

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Paul Stenquist
athing and personal critique was given. That must be >> nudging 8-10 years ago, but it seems to have put a permanent moratorium >> on providing full and frank feedback. Can't we move on? >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Brian >> >> ++

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-26 Thread Christine Aguila
gt; nudging 8-10 years ago, but it seems to have put a permanent moratorium > on providing full and frank feedback. Can't we move on? > > > Cheers > > Brian > > ++ > Brian Walters > Western Sydney Australia > http://lyons-rya

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-25 Thread Bob Sullivan
roduce. > > Hell, they're only images. > > Kenneth Waller > http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller > > - Original Message - From: "William Robb" > > > Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism > > >> On 25/11/2011 2:18 PM, Larry Colen wrot

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-25 Thread Brian Walters
> Rick >   > http://photo.net/photos/RickW > > > ----- Original Message - > From: William Robb > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Cc: > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:06 PM > Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism > > On 25/11/2011 2:18 PM, Larry C

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-25 Thread Bong Manayon
Larry, Let me share what we have done in the local Pentax group here in the Philippines, I get to be asked to critique photos ever so often and Filipinos are the worst in either giving or receiving critique (okay, someone out there might think their culture are worse...). One thing that I have do

Re: Giving and taking criticism

2011-11-25 Thread David Parsons
subject is lacking, or > vice versa, I'd like to know that, too. > > Rick > > http://photo.net/photos/RickW > > > - Original Message ----- > From: William Robb > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Cc: > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:06 PM > Subject: Re

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