Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 15/05/2015 07:36, Tudor Girba a écrit : The infrastructures for doing that exist already in SystemLogger and Beacon, and we will merge these two and produce one common logging engine. I was focused on Transcript and completely missed Stef's point... a unified logging framework would be cool

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Pressed save too early. The infrastructures for doing that exist already in SystemLogger and Beacon, and we will merge these two and produce one common logging engine. However, one challenge that came out of the description of Clement is to show a partial representation of an event before the ful

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

What Stef means is that ideally, we should no strive to not have code like: "Transcript show: 'my event'". Instead, we should only log events (ideally, concrete classes like MyEvent) and if we want to see the textual representation of this, we just plug a Transcript interface to the logger. Cheers

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

> > > Le 14/5/15 15:12, Alain Rastoul a écrit : > > Le 14/05/2015 02:08, J. Vuletich (mail lists) a écrit : >> >>> A port of the code to Pharo is required, as Alain and Stef have shown. >>> Besides, Cuis doesn't include support for Traits. I think your idea is >>> very good, and I hope some Pharoer

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 14/05/2015 21:18, stepharo a écrit : ah, also I saw that you were discussing about do-it in separate processes. that should be easy to implment IMHO (as a test menu option to start), with some side effects sure ... I already mentioned the effectiveProcess not maintained by the inspector (s

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 14/05/2015 21:18, stepharo a écrit : Thanks alain for checking. I think that we can offer different implementations and let people pick the ones they like. My goal is to remove direct refer to Transcript from the image so that we can plug an implementation and in particular the merge of Doru a

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Thanks Clement. I think that this is true that we should take care about all the hidden behavior (like creating repo and others). Stef Le 11/5/15 17:02, Clément Bera a écrit : 2015-05-11 13:06 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess >: About the GTools, I am sure you know i

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Thanks alain for checking. I think that we can offer different implementations and let people pick the ones they like. My goal is to remove direct refer to Transcript from the image so that we can plug an implementation and in particular the merge of Doru and Norbert/Mine loggers Stef Le 14/5

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

How you gonna ensure that, when only tool that you have is a completely single-minded (err.. threaded :) ) / thread unsafe Morphic in your hands, that is absolutely dangerous to use outside UI thread and recipe for disaster when fiddling with its state or interrupting it at non-safe point? Re

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

thanks alain did you publish a slice attached to the ug entry? Le 11/5/15 20:54, Alain Rastoul a écrit : Le 10/05/2015 13:15, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : On 10 May 2015, at 13:10, stepharo wrote: Why we cannot use the of Juan? you can type in it, make do it, etc. (just like now)

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Nice to know. Thanks Gareth. On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Gareth Cox wrote: > Just for fun, from VisualAge Smalltalk 8.6 > > "-" > > Time millisecondsToRun: [1000 timesRepeat: [Transcript show: 'x']]. > VisualA

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Just for fun, from VisualAge Smalltalk 8.6 "-" Time millisecondsToRun: [1000 timesRepeat: [Transcript show: 'x']]. VisualAge Smalltalk 8.6 --> 3120ms "---

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Alain, Quoting Alain Rastoul : Le 14/05/2015 02:08, J. Vuletich (mail lists) a écrit : A port of the code to Pharo is required, as Alain and Stef have shown. Besides, Cuis doesn't include support for Traits. I think your idea is very good, and I hope some Pharoer (Alain?) does it. Hi Juan

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Sven, A port of the code to Pharo is required, as Alain and Stef have shown. Besides, Cuis doesn't include support for Traits. I think your idea is very good, and I hope some Pharoer (Alain?) does it. Cheers, Juan Vuletich Quoting Sven Van Caekenberghe : I tried to abstract the Transc

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Quoting Alain Rastoul : Le 13/05/2015 18:45, J. Vuletich (mail lists) a écrit : Alternatively, try getting the image file from https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13285702/Cuis4.2-2322.image Yes, with the image in the zip file I was able to run cuis. I run squeak from time to time to look

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 13/05/2015 18:32, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit : Hmm, why ? I think it is more a question of (personal) style. Direct instance variable access without an accessor is a very good way to keep something private, it is faster as well. With the current tools, finding usages is very easy in both

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 13/05/2015 18:45, J. Vuletich (mail lists) a écrit : Alternatively, try getting the image file from https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13285702/Cuis4.2-2322.image Yes, with the image in the zip file I was able to run cuis. I run squeak from time to time to look at some code when I have n

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > Hi Ben, > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Eliot Miranda >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Ben Coman wrote: >>> From my limited experience bug hunt

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

We use traits all over the place, for example, TSortable or TAssertable, as well as many others... > On 13 May 2015, at 18:38, Ben Coman wrote: > > Weren't Traits one of things reported to make VM development harder, or was > there a fix coming for that? > cheers -ben > > On Wed, May 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Quoting Alain Rastoul : Le 13/05/2015 16:08, J. Vuletich (mail lists) a écrit : Today I did a new commit to the Cuis repo. The Cuis image is now in Cog format (6505) instead of Closures format (6504). I hope this allows you to run Cuis in your system. I also addressed some of the issues you r

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Weren't Traits one of things reported to make VM development harder, or was there a fix coming for that? cheers -ben On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Alain Rastoul wrote: > Le 13/05/2015 16:12, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit : > >> I tried to abstract the Transcript API from the Pharo perspectiv

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

> On 13 May 2015, at 17:57, Alain Rastoul wrote: > > Le 13/05/2015 16:12, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit : >> I tried to abstract the Transcript API from the Pharo perspective in >> >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15528/Add-TTranscript-and-DailyNonInteractiveTranscript >> >> If the Cuis Tr

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 13/05/2015 16:12, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit : I tried to abstract the Transcript API from the Pharo perspective in https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15528/Add-TTranscript-and-DailyNonInteractiveTranscript If the Cuis Transcript implementation conformed to this, it could become just a pl

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 13/05/2015 16:08, J. Vuletich (mail lists) a écrit : Today I did a new commit to the Cuis repo. The Cuis image is now in Cog format (6505) instead of Closures format (6504). I hope this allows you to run Cuis in your system. I also addressed some of the issues you raised. I optimized the refr

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 13/05/2015 16:06, Ben Coman a écrit : The problem with this is that non-UI threads call #endEntry: which bypasses the intent of #stepGlobal only being called from the UI thread. (btw I should update its comment to reflect this.) So the minimal effective change would be... ThreadSafeT

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

I tried to abstract the Transcript API from the Pharo perspective in https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15528/Add-TTranscript-and-DailyNonInteractiveTranscript If the Cuis Transcript implementation conformed to this, it could become just a plugin replacement/alternative, next to others already pr

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Alain, Quoting Alain Rastoul : Le 08/05/2015 11:34, stepharo a écrit : Hi guys the Transcript in Pharo is that it's not asynchronous so I can't use it in VM development to show the current progress of the simulation. For example: 1 to: 100 do: [ :i | 0.1 seconds asDelay wait. Trans

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 6:32 AM, Alain Rastoul wrote: > Le 12/05/2015 19:02, Alain Rastoul a écrit : > >> Le 08/05/2015 11:34, stepharo a écrit : >> >>> Hi guys >>> >>> the Transcript in Pharo is that it's not asynchronous so I can't use it >>> in VM development to show the current progress of th

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 12/05/2015 19:02, Alain Rastoul a écrit : Le 08/05/2015 11:34, stepharo a écrit : Hi guys the Transcript in Pharo is that it's not asynchronous so I can't use it in VM development to show the current progress of the simulation. For example: 1 to: 100 do: [ :i | 0.1 seconds asDelay wait.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 08/05/2015 11:34, stepharo a écrit : Hi guys the Transcript in Pharo is that it's not asynchronous so I can't use it in VM development to show the current progress of the simulation. For example: 1 to: 100 do: [ :i | 0.1 seconds asDelay wait. Transcript show: 'x'. ] => on Squeak, th

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:52:37PM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 11 May 2015 at 22:54, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > Speaking about penetrating multiple layers.. Lemme tell you the story: > > > > One day, a brave hero (let's call him Stef :) ) decided to save the > > world... err improve Transcr

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 11/05/2015 23:32, Igor Stasenko a écrit : Don't think i am overreacting on Eliot's overreacting whatever.. We're a good friends, and pike fight on mailing list is not gonna change that. I just stating my POV, he stating own.. and that's how i see it, if you remove the giggles:). Good to know

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On 11 May 2015 at 22:54, Igor Stasenko wrote: > Speaking about penetrating multiple layers.. Lemme tell you the story: > > One day, a brave hero (let's call him Stef :) ) decided to save the > world... err improve Transcript and make it thread-safe. > And everything vent well until he stumbled u

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On 11 May 2015 at 23:22, Alain Rastoul wrote: > Le 11/05/2015 22:27, Igor Stasenko a écrit : > >> On 10 May 2015 at 10:23, stepharo wrote: >> >> >>> i think there is a fundamental difference between 'stream' and 'update >>> on >>> the screen' . Choose one and stick to it. > We shall s

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 11/05/2015 22:27, Igor Stasenko a écrit : On 10 May 2015 at 10:23, stepharo wrote: i think there is a fundamental difference between 'stream' and 'update on the screen' . Choose one and stick to it. We shall separate such responsibilities and NEVER ever merge them again , even if it was

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On 10 May 2015 at 13:57, Ben Coman wrote: > > not that output is interleaved with a specific policy. > > Hi Eliot, > > I guess it was hard to analyse that output dump from your phone, and I > should have been more explicit. The problem is not the interleave order, > but duplicate and missing out

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Speaking about penetrating multiple layers.. Lemme tell you the story: One day, a brave hero (let's call him Stef :) ) decided to save the world... err improve Transcript and make it thread-safe. And everything vent well until he stumbled upon #endEntry logic, because he was unable to figure out

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On 10 May 2015 at 10:23, stepharo wrote: > > i think there is a fundamental difference between 'stream' and 'update on >>> the screen' . Choose one and stick to it. >>> We shall separate such responsibilities and NEVER ever merge them again , >>> even if it was cool, nice, soft and puffy in the

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 10/05/2015 13:15, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : On 10 May 2015, at 13:10, stepharo wrote: Why we cannot use the of Juan? you can type in it, make do it, etc. (just like now) Hi Esteban, did you try it in pharo ? It took me some time to read this whole thread yesterday evening back

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

2015-05-11 13:06 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess : > > About the GTools, I am sure you know it but, you can disable them and work > with the good old Workspace and (Eye-)Inspector. > Yeah but I could not open the setting browser because you need to be able to create a directory to do so and it didn't work

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Clement, Thanks a lot for taking the time to describes these use cases. I was never exposed to the constraints of developing a VM and this type of descriptions is what we need to have a chance of producing tools that can help. I will think of them. Cheers, Doru On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 10:2

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

About the GTools, I am sure you know it but, you can disable them and work with the good old Workspace and (Eye-)Inspector. BTW, how do Traits depend on the bytecode set? 2015-05-10 16:43 GMT+02:00 Clément Bera : > > > 2015-05-10 10:37 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano : > >> >> On 10 May 2015, at 10:

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

2015-05-10 13:23 GMT+02:00 stepharo : > Just so that I understand why Transcript does not support stream api > ThreadSafeTranscript implements the following selectors: > > #(#ensureCr #close #print: #white #openLabel: #characterLimit #'<<' > #initialize #title #printOn: #nextPutAll: #show: #shou

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

2015-05-10 10:37 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano : > > On 10 May 2015, at 10:28, Clément Bera wrote: > > > > 2015-05-09 23:21 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba : > >> I do not think there are many people around here that would think that it >> is irrelevant if the Pharo VM can be developed in Pharo or not. Of co

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

> not that output is interleaved with a specific policy. Hi Eliot, I guess it was hard to analyse that output dump from your phone, and I should have been more explicit. The problem is not the interleave order, but duplicate and missing output items. I've cut down the example and and manually r

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Just so that I understand why Transcript does not support stream api ThreadSafeTranscript implements the following selectors: #(#ensureCr #close #print: #white #openLabel: #characterLimit #'<<' #initialize #title #printOn: #nextPutAll: #show: #shoutAboutToStyle: #cr #tab #black #initialExtent

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

> On 10 May 2015, at 13:10, stepharo wrote: > > Why we cannot use the of Juan? > > > > Le 10/5/15 10:36, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >> +1 >> >> let’s recapitulate: >> >> requirement is >> - fast >> - editable > why do you need to edit it? you can type in it, make do it, etc. (just like

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Why we cannot use the of Juan? Le 10/5/15 10:36, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : +1 let’s recapitulate: requirement is - fast - editable why do you need to edit it? - polymorphic with WriteStream - and immediate to screen from our perspective (pharo), it has to be also - thread safe - well de

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On 5/10/15, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> On 10 May 2015, at 10:36, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> +1 >> >> let’s recapitulate: >> >> requirement is >> - fast >> - editable >> - polymorphic with WriteStream >> - and immediate to screen >> from our perspective (pharo), it has to be also >> - t

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

> On 10 May 2015, at 10:36, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > +1 > > let’s recapitulate: > > requirement is > - fast > - editable > - polymorphic with WriteStream > - and immediate to screen > from our perspective (pharo), it has to be also > - thread safe > - well designed. > > our constrai

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Clément, Thanks for the detailed write up, this is surely helpful. I cannot react to all points, because some are out of my expertise. However, in this whole, very long thread, there is no one who ever said WHICH STREAM API IS MISSING ? It should be quite easy to add something, if only some

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

> On 10 May 2015, at 10:22, stepharo wrote: > > > > Le 9/5/15 20:51, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit : >> Yes, the Cuis implementation is cool. Especially because it implements both >> the limited/circular buffer and timed/batched updating. > > I should finish my circular linkedList. > I will

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

> On 10 May 2015, at 10:28, Clément Bera wrote: > > > > 2015-05-09 23:21 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba >: > I do not think there are many people around here that would think that it is > irrelevant if the Pharo VM can be developed in Pharo or not. Of course, it is > imp

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

+1 let’s recapitulate: requirement is - fast - editable - polymorphic with WriteStream - and immediate to screen from our perspective (pharo), it has to be also - thread safe - well designed. our constraints are: - bad design of transcripts - super naive implementation of text editors (t

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

2015-05-09 23:21 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba : > I do not think there are many people around here that would think that it > is irrelevant if the Pharo VM can be developed in Pharo or not. Of course, > it is important. > > So, the discussion should not go to challenge this direction, but rather > in you

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

i think there is a fundamental difference between 'stream' and 'update on the screen' . Choose one and stick to it. We shall separate such responsibilities and NEVER ever merge them again , even if it was cool, nice, soft and puffy in the past. Yes, sure, we can then build the facade on top of t

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 9/5/15 20:51, Sven Van Caekenberghe a écrit : Yes, the Cuis implementation is cool. Especially because it implements both the limited/circular buffer and timed/batched updating. I should finish my circular linkedList. I will resume it. It does however mix different things in 1 class (s

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Fri, May 08, 2015 at 08:10:33PM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > i think there is a fundamental difference between 'stream' and 'update on > the screen' . Choose one and stick to it. > We shall separate such responsibilities and NEVER ever merge them again , > even if it was cool, nice, soft and

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

For me saying that internals are not important as long as transcript does what is expected from it, is like saying that Parser being a subclass of Scanner and Compiler being as subclass of Parser is ok as long as it compiles source code. We already had that and it was bad. On the other hand it’

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

2015-05-09 20:16 GMT+02:00 Clément Bera : > > Stef believes it is important that Pharo is able to host development for > its own VM. Therefore, I discussed with him and Esteban about a first list > of points that are necessary for Pharo to support its VM development in > Pharo, which includes this

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

I do not think there are many people around here that would think that it is irrelevant if the Pharo VM can be developed in Pharo or not. Of course, it is important. So, the discussion should not go to challenge this direction, but rather in you telling us the use cases that you need supported. Pl

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Eliot, Yes, that's the active repo, and that's latest commit. You might also take a look at the packages folder. Not related to Transcript, but there is a lot of good stuff in there. Cheers, Juan Vuletich Quoting Eliot Miranda : Hi Juan, I'm cloning https://github.com/Cuis-Small

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Thanks Sven. I think that in any case it is useful, even if you end implementing something different. Cheers, Juan Vuletich Quoting Sven Van Caekenberghe : Yes, the Cuis implementation is cool. Especially because it implements both the limited/circular buffer and timed/batched updating.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

2015-05-09 20:25 GMT+02:00 stepharo : > > > Le 9/5/15 20:16, Clément Bera a écrit : > > This whole conversation here shows very well the point that I tried to > explain to Stef last week. I'm sorry if the mail is a bit long but I think > this discussion has to be done. > > My whole Smalltalk deve

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Juan, I'm cloning https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev and will take a look at Cuis4.2-2280. Is that right? On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:17 AM, J. Vuletich (mail lists) < juanli...@jvuletich.org> wrote: > Hi Folks, > > (below) > > > Quoting Ben Coman : > > On Sat, May 9,

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:17 AM, J. Vuletich (mail lists) < juanli...@jvuletich.org> wrote: > Hi Folks, > > (below) > > > Quoting Ben Coman : > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Eliot Miranda >> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Ben Coman wrote: >>> >>> From my limited expe

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 11:18 AM, stepharo wrote: > > > Le 9/5/15 16:24, Eliot Miranda a écrit : > > > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 5:37 AM, stepharo wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> Eliot I do not understand why you are reacting like that. Our goal is not >> to make the live of people worse. All the effort

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Yes, the Cuis implementation is cool. Especially because it implements both the limited/circular buffer and timed/batched updating. It does however mix different things in 1 class (side!): the transcript stream behavior, the display/tool part, an alternative file output, some sort of newer API,

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 9/5/15 20:16, Clément Bera a écrit : This whole conversation here shows very well the point that I tried to explain to Stef last week. I'm sorry if the mail is a bit long but I think this discussion has to be done. My whole Smalltalk development life, I have used Pharo and was happy with

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Thanks Juan. Stef As a point of comparison for correctness, for the following... Transcript clear. [ $a asciiValue to: $z asciiValue do: [ :c | [ 1 to: 9 do: [ :i | Transcript show: c asCharacter printString , i printString , ' ' ] ] forkAt: 40 ]. ] forkAt: 41 Squeak 4.5 gives.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 9/5/15 16:24, Eliot Miranda a écrit : On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 5:37 AM, stepharo > wrote: Hi guys Eliot I do not understand why you are reacting like that. Our goal is not to make the live of people worse. All the efforts we do in Pharo is to get b

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

This whole conversation here shows very well the point that I tried to explain to Stef last week. I'm sorry if the mail is a bit long but I think this discussion has to be done. My whole Smalltalk development life, I have used Pharo and was happy with it. Now I am also working in Cog's JIT compile

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Folks, (below) Quoting Ben Coman : On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Ben Coman wrote: From my limited experience bug hunting, calling #changed: from a thread other than the UI thread is a source of evil. There are too many assumpt

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Ben, On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Eliot Miranda > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Ben Coman wrote: >> >>> From my limited experience bug hunting, calling #changed: from a thread >>> other than the UI thread is a so

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Ben, On May 9, 2015, at 7:41 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Ben Coman wrote: >> From my limited experience bug hunting, calling #changed: from a thread >> other than the UI thread is a source of evil. There are too many >> assumptions throughout the system t

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi Ben, first, thanks for responding dispassionately to the technical issues. As far as thread-safety I thought the issue with the transcript was not providing some form of protection against unpredictable interleavings of output from multiple separate processes, but was just avoiding lock-

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > >> From my limited experience bug hunting, calling #changed: from a thread >> other than the UI thread is a source of evil. There are too many >> assumptions throughout the system that

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > >> From my limited experience bug hunting, calling #changed: from a thread >> other than the UI thread is a source of evil. >> > 3. Thinking further on this, I suppose the main issue fr

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 11:00 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > On 09 May 2015, at 16:41, Ben Coman wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > > From my limited experience bug hunting, calling #changed: from a thread > other than the UI thread is a source of

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

> On 09 May 2015, at 16:57, p...@highoctane.be wrote: > > I wonder why a couple of stream methods are not in. This whole thread started with a discussion about a multi-threading issue. What is wrong with the API exactly ? Writestream has way too many methods already, do people really want them

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

> On 09 May 2015, at 16:41, Ben Coman wrote: > > > > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > From my limited experience bug hunting, calling #changed: from a thread other > than the UI thread is a source of evil. There are too many assumptions > throughout the system that the U

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

I wonder why a couple of stream methods are not in. Also the idea of having something we can connect to observe a stream is really interesting. A single transcript is a bit too little for my tastes. I often write to several files and have tail -f on them in several windows in tmux. Would be nic

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Ben Coman wrote: > From my limited experience bug hunting, calling #changed: from a thread > other than the UI thread is a source of evil. There are too many > assumptions throughout the system that the UI is single threaded. Can > anyone advise me that is not a

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > From my limited experience bug hunting, calling #changed: from a thread > other than the UI thread is a source of evil. There are too many > assumptions throughout the system that the UI is single threaded. Can > anyone advise me that is not a

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 5:37 AM, stepharo wrote: > Hi guys > > Eliot I do not understand why you are reacting like that. Our goal is not > to make the live of people worse. All the efforts we > do in Pharo is to get better. > Reacting like what? I am trying to establish that the transcript is br

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 5:29 AM, stepharo wrote: > Eliot > > I changed the transcript because it is not thread safe so I could use it > at all to explain concurrent programming output. > It was terrible. > I don't see what that has to do with my usability point. The transcript was a) a stream b)

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

>From my limited experience bug hunting, calling #changed: from a thread other than the UI thread is a source of evil. There are too many assumptions throughout the system that the UI is single threaded. Can anyone advise me that is not a proper belief? Then that implies that a Transcript implem

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > Either you run doits in separate process (as Sven demonstrated), > or you run it in UI process, blocking the rest of UI. > Stef, you complaining about not being able to see output of code that > blocks a process from doing such output. > I w

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Stealing some code from SystemProgressMorph, which can show an update while the UI thread drives it, the following seems to work (using a Doit that block the UI thread): (textModel := TextModel new) text: ''; title: 'Pharo Transcript'; aboutText: '

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Hi guys Eliot I do not understand why you are reacting like that. Our goal is not to make the live of people worse. All the efforts we do in Pharo is to get better. I changed the transcript because when I started to work on concurrent programming chapters then the transcript was simply useless

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Eliot I changed the transcript because it is not thread safe so I could use it at all to explain concurrent programming output. It was terrible. Stef Le 8/5/15 16:16, Eliot Miranda a écrit : Hi, if one uses a at doit transcript then no special action is required to get output to appe

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

> On 08 May 2015, at 21:00, Clément Bera wrote: > > > > 2015-05-08 19:39 GMT+02:00 Eliot Miranda : > > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > On 8 May 2015 at 19:22, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Alain Rastoul wrote: > Le 08/05/2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On 8 May 2015 at 21:00, Clément Bera wrote: > > > 2015-05-08 19:39 GMT+02:00 Eliot Miranda : > >> >> >> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Igor Stasenko >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 8 May 2015 at 19:22, Eliot Miranda wrote: >>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Alain Rastoul wro

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

Le 08/05/2015 16:16, Eliot Miranda a écrit : Hi, if one uses a at doit transcript then no special action is required to get output to appear beyond sending flush to Transcript right? So any solution that requires special action to get the moronic transcript to work us broken. We should

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

2015-05-08 19:39 GMT+02:00 Eliot Miranda : > > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> >> >> On 8 May 2015 at 19:22, Eliot Miranda wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Alain Rastoul >>> wrote: >>> Le 08/05/2015 16:16, Eliot Miranda a écrit : >

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On 8 May 2015 at 20:23, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> >> >> On 8 May 2015 at 20:00, Eliot Miranda wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Igor Stasenko >>> wrote: >>> On 8 May 2015 at 19:39, Eliot Miranda wr

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On 8 May 2015 at 20:21, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> >> >> On 8 May 2015 at 19:42, Eliot Miranda wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Igor Stasenko >>> wrote: >>> On 8 May 2015 at 19:31, Ben Coman wrote:

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > On 8 May 2015 at 20:00, Eliot Miranda wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Igor Stasenko >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 8 May 2015 at 19:39, Eliot Miranda wrote: >>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Igor Stas

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > On 8 May 2015 at 19:42, Eliot Miranda wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Igor Stasenko >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 8 May 2015 at 19:31, Ben Coman wrote: >>> On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 1:22 AM, Eliot Miranda

Re: [Pharo-dev] Transcript needs your love

On 8 May 2015 at 20:00, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> >> >> On 8 May 2015 at 19:39, Eliot Miranda wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Igor Stasenko >>> wrote: >>> On 8 May 2015 at 19:22, Eliot Miranda wr

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