On 2022-01-18 at 12:07:15 +1100,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I would be more sympathetic to this idea if:
> 1. I knew how to easily type all those brackets on the keyboard,
> without having to use a GUI character picker.
That's between you and your OS. I believe all the major ones have ways
to
On 2021-12-12 at 17:28:23 +1300,
Greg Ewing wrote:
> On 11/12/21 1:22 pm, Christopher Barker wrote:
> > Darn — the P and A are swapped there.
>
> "Argument" and "actual" both start with "A" -- does that help?
Then Parameters must be Potential (before they become Actualized as
Arguments)?
On 2021-12-10 at 17:24:22 -0500,
"Eric V. Smith" wrote:
> [0]: Or arguments, I can never remember which is which: someone needs
> to invent a memorable mnemonic device.
Pass Arguments
Accept Parameters
(I don't know. I just made that up. For some reason, the fact that
functions have "formal
On 2021-12-10 at 20:20:05 +,
deavid wrote:
> A lot of you are referring to scripting, learning, and other ways of
> using Python that would be badly impacted. I already acknowledged that
> these exist (or at least I didn't notice here any other that I wasn't
> aware), and that's why I
On 2021-12-06 at 02:15:36 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 1:48 AM <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2021-12-05 at 20:30:53 +1100,
> > Chris Angelico wrote:
> >
[...]
> > > https://pyauth.github.io/pyotp/#time-based-otps
> >
> > I agree. *Not*
On 2021-12-05 at 20:30:53 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 5:41 PM <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> > Also FWIW, I still think that if you're doing (b) or (c), then you're
> > *not* doing default values anymore, you're moving pieces of the logic or
> > the
On 2021-12-01 at 17:16:34 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> *PEP 671: Syntax for late-bound function argument defaults*
>
> Questions, for you all:
>
> 1) If this feature existed in Python 3.11 exactly as described, would
> you use it?
No. I understand the arguments (pun intended) for the
On 2021-11-12 at 14:43:07 +1100,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 10:06:45PM -0500, Ricky Teachey wrote:
>
> > Is there a standard idiom-- perhaps using a type-hint-- to signal to the
> > IDE/linter that my user-defined class is intended to be used as a
> > function/factory, and
On 2021-10-31 at 14:56:36 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 2:43 PM <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2021-10-30 at 18:54:51 -0700,
> > Brendan Barnwell wrote:
> >
> > > On 2021-10-30 18:29, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >
> > > > Right. That is a very real
On 2021-10-30 at 18:54:51 -0700,
Brendan Barnwell wrote:
> On 2021-10-30 18:29, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > Right. That is a very real difference, which is why there is a very
> > real difference between early-bound and late-bound defaults. But both
> > are argument defaults.
>
> I don't
On 2021-10-27 at 13:47:31 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:15 PM Brendan Barnwell
> wrote:
> >
> > On 2021-10-26 17:41, Christopher Barker wrote:
> > > Python used to be such a simple language, not so much anymore :-(
> >
> > I quite agree, and I feel like this
On 2021-10-26 at 12:51:43 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 12:40 PM <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2021-10-26 at 12:12:47 +1100,
> > Chris Angelico wrote:
> > > The difference between early evaluation and late evaluation is that
> > > one retains
On 2021-10-26 at 12:12:47 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 11:44 AM Rob Cliffe via Python-ideas
> wrote:
> > I prefer 1). Easier to understand and debug in examples with side-effects
> > such as
> > def f(a := enter_codes(), b = assign_targets(), c :=
On 2021-10-24 at 13:23:51 +1100,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 02:54:54PM -0700, 2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com
> wrote:
>
> [...]
> > > The function header is a syntactic construct - the "def" line, any
> > > decorators, annotations, etc.
> >
> > If you mean that def
On 2021-10-24 at 06:54:36 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:18 AM <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> > > The expression would be evaluated in the function's context, having
> > > available to it everything that the function has. Notably, this is NOT
> > > the
On 2021-10-24 at 03:07:45 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> def bisect(a, x, lo=0, hi=None):
> if lo < 0:
> raise ValueError('lo must be non-negative')
> if hi is None:
> hi = len(a)
>
> It's clear what value lo gets if you omit it. It's less clear what hi
> gets. And the
On 2021-10-20 at 11:48:30 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> TBH swapcase is a bit of a minefield if you don't know what language
> you're working with.
[...]
> The most logical "negation" of a string would be reversing it, which
> WOULD be... well, reversible. But that doesn't need an operator,
On 2021-10-14 at 04:34:24 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:21 AM <2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2021-10-14 at 00:00:25 +0900,
> > "Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote:
> >
> > > Chris Angelico writes:
> > >
> > > > +1, although it's debatable whether it
On 2021-10-14 at 00:00:25 +0900,
"Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote:
> Chris Angelico writes:
>
> > +1, although it's debatable whether it should be remove suffix or
> > remove all. I'd be happy with either.
>
> If by "remove all" you mean "efefef" - "ef" == "", I think that's a
> footgun.
On 2021-10-06 at 08:52:22 -0600,
Finn Mason wrote:
> I'm not a huge fan. Sure, dicts are ordered now, but I doubt that many
> people use that feature. I honestly still think of them as unordered
> ;)
+1 on still think of mappings as unordered (but finding myself screaming
Get Off My Lawn more
On 2021-09-12 at 07:28:53 -0700,
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> What about asserts that are not used for testing, but as classic
> “unless there’s a bug, this should hold”? Those may not want to incur
> the extra cost.
I was actually thinking exactly the opposite: this would more useful in
On 2021-08-31 at 11:15:22 -0700,
Nick Parlante wrote:
> As mentioned, PEP8 is formally for narrow cases, and includes
> disclaimers about not applying it mechanically, reflecting a basic
> reasonableness. Nothing to complain about there.
> As a practical matter, the IDEs just default to having
On 2021-08-23 at 21:06:46 -,
Tim Hoffmann via Python-ideas wrote:
> - Re bool: As experienced python users we are used to translate `if
> not users` to "if users is empty" or "if we have no users", but it
> *is* less explicit than `if users.is_empty()`.
I mentally translate "if not users"
On 2021-08-13 at 23:18:29 +1100,
Matsuoka Takuo wrote:
> Given a subscriptable object s, the intended rule for the notation for
> getting an item of s seems that, for any expression {e}, such as
> "x, ",
> s[{e}]
> (i.e., s[x, ] if {e} is "x, ") means the same as
> s[({e})]
If e is an
On 2021-08-12 at 14:05:23 -,
eloi.riv...@aquilenet.fr wrote:
> This is how slices are used in the python standard library, indeed,
> but that does not stop me from interpreting the slices as "inclusive
> by default" in my library. The inconsistency with the rest of the
> python standard
On 2021-08-12 at 08:56:22 -,
eloi.riv...@aquilenet.fr wrote:
> Hi. I am working on a kinda-ORM library, which usage often implies to request
> data within specific ranges:
>
> Foobar.search(
> attr1="foo",
> attr2=gt(10),
> attr3=between(42, 50)
> )
>
> The
On 2021-08-08 at 21:37:28 -,
Hasan Aliyev wrote:
> For example we can have one ArgumentParser instance, for (windows, linux),
> (community edition, pro edition) apps. It could give ability to show and be
> able to run only allowed commands based on version of os, app or some other
>
On 2021-08-08 at 11:30:20 +0400,
Abdulla Al Kathiri wrote:
> ... if we write “case” before “def” similar to “async” before “def” in
> async function it should be clear we are doing pattern matching. The
> function will be named case function.
>
> case def fib(0):
> return 0
>
> case def
On 2021-08-08 at 09:41:34 +0100,
Barry Scott wrote:
> What is mixed endian? I would guess that its use would be application
> specific - so I assume you would not need to support it.
Not AFAIK application specific, but hardware specific:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness#Mixed
On 2021-08-06 at 21:57:47 +1000,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 05, 2021 at 09:39:44AM +0100, Sam Frances wrote:
> > def fib(0):
> > return 0
> >
> > def fib(1):
> > return 1
> >
> > def fib(n):
> > return fib(n-1) + fib(n-2)
>
> I think that there is something rather
On 2021-07-13 at 14:11:15 -,
sandhoners...@gmail.com wrote:
> Maybe (to be consistent with other functions like print), end= since
> that would allow even custom line endings
As it stands, writelines is consistent with readlines. Both preserve
newlines.
All else being equal, the following
On 2021-06-20 at 12:18:24 -,
Johan Vergeer wrote:
> After working with Kotlin for a while I really started to like the
> idea of extension methods. I delivers a great way to extend the
> language without having to add features to the language itself.
I disagree with the premise that such a
On 2021-05-28 at 12:22:22 +1000,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> [...] calculate something once and reuse the value, because you know
> that it won't change (or don't care if it changes) [...]
> (Some day I'll learn how to do this in real life. Why can't I buy just
> one egg, and then reuse the same
On 2021-05-27 at 22:33:25 +1000,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Aside from globals, which we agree are Considered Harmful, you've
> suggested two alternative implementations:
>
> - something with closures;
>
> - hidden state in an object with a `__call__` method.
>
> Closures are cool, but the
On 2021-05-26 at 12:53:32 -,
Shreyan Avigyan wrote:
> I've already given one. Since Python is dynamically typed changing a
> critical variable can cause huge instability. Want a demonstration?
> Here we go,
>
> import sys
> sys.stdout = None
>
> Now what? Now how can we print anything?
On 2021-05-24 at 01:34:29 +1000,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 06:52:38PM +0530, Shivam Saini wrote:
>
> > After all, python is known for one liners and this would be an another
> > great one liner if implemented.
>
> Python isn't known for one-liners. You might be thinking
On 2021-05-23 at 16:30:35 +0200,
Marco Sulla wrote:
> On Sun, 23 May 2021 at 14:50, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 10:42 PM Marco Sulla
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, 23 May 2021 at 14:35, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 10:30 PM Marco
On 2021-05-06 at 18:34:55 -,
Shreyan Avigyan wrote:
> Chris:
> > I'm not sure about other people, but I have never, not once, used
> > @property as a means of controlling access. So giving me another way
> > to do something that I am not, and don't want to, do... isn't much of
> > an
On 2021-05-01 at 03:05:51 -,
Valentin Berlier wrote:
> Also I haven't seen anyone acknowledge the potential performance
> benefits of string comprehensions. The "".join() idiom needs to go
> through the entire generator machinery to assemble the final string,
> whereas a decent
On 2021-04-30 at 14:14:50 -0400,
David Álvarez Lombardi wrote:
[...]
> new = c"x.lower() for x in old if x in HARDCODED_LIST" # filter-in chars
> that appear in earlier-defined HARDCODED_LIST and convert to lower
> new = c"x for x in old if not x.isprintable()" # filter-in
> non-printable
On 2021-04-16 at 04:03:33 +1000,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> So brace-left, brace-right is "{}" but compose, brace-left,
> brace-right is "∅". If absolutely every Python programmer had this
> available, it might be enough to distinguish empty dict from empty
> set.
But if an empty set is
On 2021-04-04 at 18:05:12 -,
Shreyan Avigyan wrote:
> When importing the curses module, be it on Windows or Darwin or
> UNIX-based OS or any other platform, if the _curses module is not
> found then just a ModuleNotFoundError is raised. But this error is not
> very informational in case of
On 2021-03-12 at 11:02:50 -0500,
Ned Batchelder wrote:
> I think the only reason anyone ever used leading commas to begin with
> was because of languages that didn't allow a final trailing comma. In
> those worlds, to keep the editing smooth, people moved the commas to
> the beginning of the
On 2021-03-05 at 16:27:27 -,
Vincent Cheong wrote:
> Currently, list.reverse() only works for an entire list. If one wants
> to reverse a section of it 'in-place', one needs to slicing which
> makes the space complexity no longer O(1). One can also manually make
> a loop and do the reversal
On 2021-02-20 at 13:44:21 -0500,
David Mertz wrote:
> Cheeseshop!
But then it would never contain the attribute I ask for, and throw a
different exception every time! ;-)
___
Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org
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On 2021-02-18 at 18:10:16 +0400,
Abdulla Al Kathiri wrote:
> I will be very happy if those versions of Callable and anonymous
> functions exist in Python right now. See how elegant that would look
> like..
>
> def func(x: int, y: int, f: (int, int) -> int) -> int:
> return f(x, y)
On 2021-02-18 at 06:21:19 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 1:53 AM Ricky Teachey wrote:
> >
> > I would personally love for SimpleNamespace to get a shorter name and
> > become a built-in.
>
> Okay. Let's start bikeshedding. If SimpleNamespace were to become a
>
On 2021-01-25 at 00:29:41 +1100,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 03:24:12PM +, Barry Scott wrote:
>
> > I think that you are going to create a bug magnet if you attempt to auto
> > detect the encoding.
> >
> > First problem I see is that the file may be a pipe and then you
On 2021-01-10 at 18:38:12 +0100,
Alex Prengère wrote:
> Today I had a quite simple need, I am unsure about the best way to do
> it, and saw a possible improvement for the *timeit *module.
>
> I have about 30 Python scripts and I want to measure precisely their
> execution times, without
On 2021-01-10 at 05:03:08 +1100,
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 4:51 AM Stephen J. Turnbull
> wrote:
> >
> > Joseph Martinot-Lagarde writes:
> >
> > > One remark about this : .tar.gz files are the exception rather than
> > > the rule, and AFAIK maybe the only one ?
> >
> >
On 2021-01-06 at 07:07:30 +0300,
Mikhail V wrote:
> I'd like to have an option to force the path separator for the
> "os.path.join()" method.
> E.g. if I run the script on Windows, but I generate, say, an URL, I'd
> find it convenient
> to use the same method, but with an explicit flag to "join"
On 2021-01-01 at 16:34:15 +1100,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> This isn't so much an idea for Python, as a request for ideas to solve a
> problem in Python.
[examples of recurive data snipped]
> The built-ins handle these cases okay. Likewise the copy.deepcopy
> function takes care to avoid
On 2020-12-27 at 19:55:39 -0300,
"Joao S. O. Bueno" wrote:
> I tried to make clear this should be in addition to that - But yes, I
> failed to mention in my message that I think such a function would
> mostly benefit beginners learning around with "input" and "print" - it
> is painful to
On 2020-12-27 at 13:24:34 +1100,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> But the ctrl-L trick has no discoverability. It took me close to
> twenty years of using Linux before I discovered it, and I still don't
> remember to use it when I need it.
The first time a sysadmin added readline to one of our work
On 2020-11-27 at 14:32:11 +0100,
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 07:32:17 -0500
> 2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com
> wrote:
> >
> > I come from old(er) school (1980s, 1990s) embedded systems, and who
> > "owns" a particular mutable data structure and how/where it gets mutated
> >
On 2020-11-27 at 10:38:06 +0200,
Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 26.11.20 19:07, Guido van Rossum пише:
> > This reminds me of something in C++. Does it exist in other languages?
> Indeed, this is a term from C++. In older C++ you could pass argument
> by value, which makes a copy, and by reference,
On 2020-11-15 at 19:11:15 +1100,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 10:17:34PM -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> > It’s a usability issue; mappings are used quite differently than sequences.
> > Compare to class patterns rather than sequence patterns.
>
> I'm keeping an open
On 2020-10-25 at 16:34:14 +,
George Harding wrote:
> some_iter = map(lambda x: x if print(x) else x, some_iter)
>
> The tuple has a ~50% overhead, the case statement ~15%, compared to the
> generator.
def print_first(x):
print(x)
return x
new_iter = map(print_first,
On 2020-10-24 at 12:29:01 -0400,
Brian Allen Vanderburg II via Python-ideas wrote:
> ... Find can output it's filenames in null-terminated lines since it
> is possible to have newlines in a filename(yuck) ...
Spaces in filenames are just as bad, and much more common:
$ touch 'foo bar'
On 2020-10-22 at 20:04:14 -0400,
Michael Smith wrote:
> 1. Being able to call two different functions from the same module. (AND)
> 2. Being able to call some functions that exist today without modification
> or rearrangement. (AND)
> 3. Being able to invoke these things from python without
On 2020-09-28 at 23:10:24 -,
Giang Le wrote:
> I would like to propose an idea for the regular expression module
> re.search(Pattern, Input) to support List[str] input type.
> So it will return a matched object list if the input is a string
> list. Otherwise, it will return a normal matched
On 2020-09-25 at 13:44:36 +0100,
Samuel Colvin wrote:
> 2. We should have some easy way to say "let this error propagate",
> rust uses very nice question mark at the end of a line syntax, python
> could use something similar one day, until then a magic comment,
> wrapper function or context
On 2020-09-23 at 23:28:11 +0100,
Henk-Jaap Wagenaar wrote:
> >>> a[3] # returns the fourth element of a
>
> has the comment unfinished. I guess it should say list or something
> similar.]
Yes, I agree: it looks like it's broken, but it's okay. a[3] returns
the fourth element of a
On 2020-09-12 at 14:07:57 +1000,
Cameron Simpson wrote:
> Dan, I should preface this by saying I don't substantially disagree
> with you, I just work differently and want to show how and why.
> The beauty here is that you have the same pattern of
> classname.transcribe_value(value) to use
On 2020-09-12 at 09:57:10 +1000,
Cameron Simpson wrote:
> So, consider:
>
> @classmethod
> def func(cls, foo):
> print(foo)
>
> A linter will warn you that "cls" is unused. With a static method:
>
> @staticmethod
> def func(foo):
> print(foo)
>
> a linter will
On 2020-09-10 at 11:45:37 -,
rangap...@gmail.com wrote:
> Got the argparse() in version 3.8.2 and above the action=CusotmClass
> can have a user defined custom subclass and override the functionality
> in the def __init__() method. Along with this can we also have a built
> in custom
On 2020-08-28 at 08:41:04 -0400,
Regarding "[Python-ideas] Re: What about having a .get(index, default) method
for arrays like we have for dicts?,"
Richard Damon wrote:
> On 8/28/20 8:24 AM, David Mertz wrote:
> >
> > As a side note, I don't really get why everyone else thinks a
> > try/except
On 2020-08-08 at 18:53:36 -0400,
David Mertz wrote:
> ... my discovery was that "LLVM figures out Gauss' simplification and
> does it in constant time no matter the N. After that I looked at the
> LLVM bytecode to see, "Yup, it does." The optimizer is pretty smart
> about variations in writing
On 2020-08-04 at 10:58:51 -0400,
Todd wrote:
> My main issue with this is that, in my opinion, dunders are not
> something a beginner should be messing with anyway. By the time
> someone is experienced enough to start working on this, they are also
> experienced enough to understand that
On 2020-07-29 at 07:09:05 -0700,
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> I honestly and strongly believe that we should do nothing here. Python
> thrives because it is relatively simple. Adding new syntax to deal
> with looping special cases makes it less simple, and encourages a bad
> coding style (nested
On 2020-07-29 at 14:26:25 +0900,
"Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote:
> 2qdxy4rzwzuui...@potatochowder.com writes:
>
> > in order to foil suck attacks.
>
> Typo of the Year candidate! (It was a typo, right?)
Call it a Freudian slip of the fingers.
___
On 2020-07-28 at 15:58:58 -0700,
Christopher Barker wrote:
> But a dict always has a LOT fewer buckets than possible hash values,
> so clashes within a bucket are not so rare, so equality needs to be
> checked always -- which is what I was missing.
> And while it wouldn't break anything, having
On 2020-07-28 at 11:04:25 -0300,
"Joao S. O. Bueno" wrote:
> Anyway, that is feasible via a decorator.
> Since it can't be done the wya you are proposing as is, since
> having a function as a default argument is valid Python
> (and the function is not called) - and
> having new syntax for this
On 2020-07-24 at 15:10:46 -,
Gábor Bernát wrote:
> ... Sometimes users have many really large objects, and when debugger
> is trying to show them in Variables View (=show their string
> representation) it can takes a lot of time. We do some tricks, but
> they not always work. It would be
On 2020-07-05 at 12:18:54 +0900,
"Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote:
> Which suggests the question: Is there a commonly used equivalent for
> complex numbers?
How would that work? Complex numbers are unordered, but I suspect that
you know that.
Dan
___
On 2020-07-04 at 20:33:36 +0100,
Regarding "[Python-ideas] Re: Add builtin function for min(max()),"
Henk-Jaap Wagenaar wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 at 19:58, Christopher Barker wrote:
>
> > Hmm.
> >
> >
> > Since NaN is neither greater than nor less that anything, it seems the
> > only correct
On 9/28/18 12:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 09:59:53PM +1000, Hugh Fisher wrote:
C and Python (currently) are known as simple languages.
o_O
That's a usage of "simple" I haven't come across before. Especially in
the case of C, which is a minefield of
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